http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n … 6682686.jp
This is just one example.. You know where your stolen stuff is, but don't expect the police to do anything about it. It seems that police nowadays are only concerned with things that generate revenue for the city, and don't bother with actual crimes against people.
House broken in to? Hit and run? Someone broke into your car and stole a bunch of your stuff?
Who cares. Take the 30 seconds to dust for prints and enter them into the database? Hah. Paperwork? Hahaha.
Driving 70 in a 65 zone? Sticker out of date? Parked in a parking lot at night for too long? They'll pursue you to the fullest extent of the law. Why? Because these things generate revenue for the city.
So is this just me, or is a recurring trend?
Rob a person for everything they have: meh.
Rob a bank for one dollar? Swat teams move in.
With no revenue, police can't be employed? Isn't it a job at the end of the day for most? That's my crappy deductive reasoning.
Pretty bold statement for someone to make who isn't a cop. They have a reason for everything they do. It's not like the individual cop is going to get paid if he write a ticket that "generates revenue". There is alot that goes on that you don't see. If they don't dust for prints or pursue someone accused of a crime there is probably a good reason. Some cops though are lazy and try to get away with as little paperwork as possible. If only it was a perfect world. Have you ever not done something because you were tired or didn't feel like it? Perhaps even something work related? exactly.
I don't consider it to be a bold statement, I consider it to be a question of fact. I would take that if I didn't know cops. But I do. Two friends, one cousin and a cousin by marriage are cops and I hear them talk about their jobs all the time. They could do something about the crimes committed against civilians, but the paperwork is annoying and they aren't encouraged to.
Are you telling me that if your house was robbed and everything was taken, and you knew where the thief was with all of your stuff, you would be ok with going to the police with this information and having them tell you to bugger off?
Here's another incident: kids break into cars and steal things. The response is "oh, that happens a lot in that parking lot". ...so wouldn't that be an excellent location to find someone breaking the law? You can fine someone for stealing, or a hit and run, or breaking and entering just as well as you can fine someone for speeding, I'm just wondering why they don't.
Don't get me wrong, I get that they have to make money, and I know that there are good cops out there who actually do care about their community and what happens therein. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the ones who don't, and who let this stuff happen. If you arrest someone for b&e, they're less likely to do it again. If they never get caught and know they'll never get caught, why the heck would they stop? What happens when eventually they get caught in the act and someone gets physically hurt?
"The police are persons empowered to enforce the law, protect property and reduce civil disorder"
I'm not asking for every petty crime to be treated like treason. I'm wondering what happened to make them seemingly not care about a lot of crimes they used to care about.
This thread was also opened to banter about how it got this way and why. Not to bash cops. You'll also notice in my initial post that I asked the question, 'Is this a recurring trend, or is this just me?'. That wasn't rhetorical. I actually wanted to discuss this, which is why I posted it in a forum. IE: What are cops like in your area? What are your experiences with them? What do you think of their work in general? Etc etc etc.
As for your assumption of my character, yes, I'm human. I have 'not done something' because I didn't feel like it. But not something that I knew would affect someone else. Generally, if you go around just 'not doing things' that you don't feel like doing, you get fired for not doing your job.
In some places the police are given ticket quotas and encouraged to set up speed traps. There is a well known one in Allen Park, Michigan where they catch hundreds of speeders on their way to the airport on a freeway with a 55 mph limit even though the limit on comparable freeways is 70 MPH.
For years now the motorist has been funding local govt. With the police under funded and the politicians saying that the police can keep the revenue from speed camera's,it has resulted in the police "chasing" motorists,- like you say at the expense of pursuing robbers and burglars. That's life I suppose, vote wisely.
Because historically Police forces were established to protect the super rich from the poor.
The police still exist to protect the rich from the poor. Creating revenue streams helps them pay to protect the rich, who subsequently have to pay almost nothing in relativity to their earnings.
For example, the British Royal Family gets police escorts wherever they go. If their taxpayer funded chaffuer gets a tax payer funded speeding fine, that is not a problem to them, and it will help to pay for their taxpayer funded police escort.
Well, because it, errr, brings in revenue, and does not endanger them, ya know... It's a monopoly, why would they bother if you don't have anybody else to turn to for such services?
Poppycock. There's always the free market's vaunted Walmart police.
If you can't understand something Roy, it is not necessarily nonsense, it might as well be a genius idea
OK I admit, I do not understand who Roy is. Is he the genius you speak of?
Don't knock those Walmart police. They'll take you down! The one at my local Walmart is at least 90 years old, but I wouldn't mess with her... she has this look.. Just try to get an external bag past her without getting a sticker put on it. Just try! I swear she trains at home
Why are police working for revenue and not stopping crimes?
Because Police Forces in the USA and UK are Corporations, in business to make a profit. Look them up on Dunn & Bradstreet. They are incorporated as businesses, as is "The United States of America" and "The United Kingdom". Check it out.
You make a valid point. Some municipal leaders attend a Tony Robbins seminar, then take a call from Goldman Sachs, then sit down with their accountants and come up with new ways to use the police to generate revenue. In America, particularly in Texas, the government managers have found that privatized prisons cost them less, by generating revenue through cheap prison labor. The result is, America has the largest prison system in the world, with over one percent of the adult population serving time for felony crimes. Further, America has the hashest penalties for non-violent crime. I suppose that is because non-violent criminals have higer-paying job skills for the prison labor sytem to exploit. For example, ghost writers for celebrity novels are usually prisoners.
Crime is a crime only after it was committed. So, no one can prevent crimes. How can we read the minds of those wandering on the streets and sleeping in their bedrooms... they may be planning to commit a crime. Is there any mechanism to read the minds of the future criminals?
Funny you should mention 'thought-crime', because there's evidence that some are trying to move toward that in our over-reactive nations. Another topic though.
This isn't about being mind readers. What you mention is the same way that police sit on the side of the road waiting for people to commit crimes they have not yet committed, for which they can stop them. They're not reading their minds, they're anticipating that a crime may occur and are readying themselves for the event that they're needed.
It's not about street-walking vigilantes here, just proper care when a crime is committed against someone, and a less biased allocation of time and effort.
I live in Flint, Michigan,USA. We have the second highest murder rate in the country, they are laying police off because the city can't pay the salaries.
This past year 23 firemen were laid-off for similar cuts. The city went on a rampage and 43 HOUSE fires were committed within the course of about a month.
My opinion of why few if any of these crimes will ever be solved is public disdain with the forces described. Both arson and murder are classified violent felonies. Each carries life imprisonment if convicted. The people won't help the paid forces because they don't feel the services they receive are worth the cost of their taxes they pay.
If, when you called the police to your home they responded quickly and acted like you mattered, wouldn't you be more considerate when it came time to vote yes on a millage to continue their pay increases ? It can take a half hour or more to get a patrol car to your home unless there is a report of a gun, knife or other deadly weapon. Meanwhile people are dieing in the streets and the police aren't solving the murders. Like a pebble's rings when thrown in a pond, the circles grow.
If you are already doing a poor job, have no community support or confidence, what do you expect is coming ? I can only hope me and mine are free and clear before the rest of this crazy place falls apart around our feet...
Wow 43 house fires?! I've heard of some places setting fire to homes so they can put the fires out, but that's insanity You make an excellent point about the community's lack of support.
There is quiet speculation about the source of so many unsolved arsons . And about the frequency directly after the lay offs. However the city got a grant from the Fed's for monies to hire all the laid off back.
Are you aware you can go to eBay and purchase in one lot, I believe the number is, 58 houses here in the city of Flint, for less than $93,000 ? That isn't even what has the issue in the media nor why the county is watching the sale so close. That is because the $1600/ property average is 3X's what these were purchased for as tax lien sales and most are uninhabitable. Some were as low as $100 at auction.
The fires have yet to quit. In one block of the city's East side, a run down area where drugs and crime have taken their toll only one house remains standing on an entire city block. The others burned intentionally. NOT ONE lead...yeah right...Anyway thanks for the forum to share...
In our county I refer to them as the polyester blue revenuers. To protect and serve is a joke, and I would never tell my children to trust one. In this county the buck is made from arresting people for under the influence. 80% of the people in county jail are there for these offenses. This county is paid 120 bucks a day for every person in jail. They also get paid for probation on each of these people, at the rate of 40 bucks a week. So, a person who gets arrested because they look high, get six months in jail, total of $21,600 and then 3 years of probation which comes to another $6,240 coming to a grand total of $27,840 for a victimless crime. This is why they do not pursue the real dangers to our communities. On top of that comes the monies collected for towing and selling their cars if they are driving at the time.
Also, there is the conflict of interest that comes from the fact that the officers are trained to begin collecting evidence to build their case from the moment they pull you over. This is the job of the DA, I believe. How can you trust an officer to protect you when they are collecting evidence against you from moment one?
You raise a good point. Instantly they are not non-biased. They are not 'fair' and you are not 'innocent' until proven guilty. That last was is such a farce now.
I pulled into an empty firehouse parking lot at around 8pm in a foreign city, because I couldn't remember how to get to a friend's place. I was trying to figure out how to get there, or find his number when a cop pulled up behind me. I'd seen him drive by a second or two earlier. He got out, with a flood light, and searched around my car before approaching, I had to put my hands on the wheel, and state what I was doing parked - in a parking lot. My purse being in the back I had to get out to get my drivers license. Afterward, he glances at my license plate, and at me, glances back at my license plate, and back at me and says, while handing me back my New Brunswick driver's license, "Are you traveling from New Brunswick?"
My better judgment prevented me from asking if it was a trick question.
Mind you, if I saw nothing but crappy people day in and day out, heard about nothing but the nasty side of humanity I would start losing my faith as well. I'm not defending them for their automatic judgment, just trying to understand a little where they're coming from, and think it's really sad that it's come to that.
Maybe there should have to go through the same 'sensitivity training' crap my office workers had to go through lol.
Another way they get you is to assume that you do not know your rights, and most people do trust them and don't know their rights. They will ask you once you are pulled over if it is alright to search your car, after all if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. It is a downhill slide to jail from there, for they will find something, even if they have to put it there themselves. Not that every cop is like that, but some are.
They do not have the right to stop you walking down the street, unless you are committing a crime.
They do not have the right to make you engage in conversation with them, unless they are arresting you.
Unless they are writing you a ticket, they cannot keep you on the side of the road.
They do not have the right to search you or your car unless you have been arrested.
If you are the passenger in a car that has been pulled over, they do not have the right to question you, or talk to you.
They may not search your purse.
Any of these things are a violation of your rights. But unless you stand up for yourself and say no, they will do it anyway, then arrest you for anything they may find or plant. A person must be just as cautious of the police as they are of walking up a dark alley at night. Both could end up in a bad situation.
Good info to have, dd
A friend of mine had a run-in with the police that fits within your examples. A police officer pulled him over, he wasn't speeding. He asked the officer what he was being pulled over for. The officer ignored his question and kept going with his own. He asked him to step out of the car, which he did. He asked if he could search the car, and my friend asked on what grounds. The officer became agitated and it just went downhill from there when my friend wouldn't let him search the car. He even threatened saying his life would be a lot worse if he called in reinforcements and police dogs to come search the car, trying to intimidate him I guess. He was on the side of the road for almost an hour (and late for work) waiting for the officer to do whatever it was he was doing back and forth to the cruiser. Finally he got fed up and asked if he was being arrested for anything. He got 'we'll see about that' and 'not yet''s, but eventually he got a 'no' out of the officer, and informed him he was going to leave, and then he left.
Good grief! Most people wouldn't know they could do that. I didn't.
Sidenote: he didn't have anything to hide, he's just very adamant about standing up for his rights, and therefore knows what they are.
It appears to me that performances even when it comes to law enforcement is now by the numbers which is to say we do everything by the book. I suspect by following this procedure the issue of trust is null and void. Absolutely everyone is a suspect so no matter how old you are or how young you are you're classified as a suspect and subjected to be tasered or shot if deemed necessary.
How about we go just a little further in the area of investigation. We already in America are identifiable by our credit cards, cell phones, drivers license, etc. now get ready to be welcomed into the 22nd century with face recognition software. Tracking who we are, where we go will be as easy as moving a joystick. You want to talk about no privacy, our conversations on the telephone are already being monitored, everything entered on the Internet is saved, catalogued and eventually anywhere we go in the world means that we will be recognized.
With the advances in technology someone decides to do some graphics works by moving one character out of an image and replacing that image with someone else how does one prove they really are not the one in that video? Sure we can tell someone it's really not us-but really how well is that going to go over?
I have worked at fairly close quarters with the British police in the past. Like every job there are people who are excellent at it and there are people who are lazy and dont get on with it.
Having said that, when we were burgled last year they did manage to find both of our cars that were stolen; one five minutes before the scrapper hit it! Though it took days of haggling to get the Scene of Crime Officers to look at it because we were stuck in a vicious circle of needing a locksmith to open a car , but needing the police to be there when we did it and the police not wanting to be there because the car was locked! It was only the actions of an older but sensible police officer that got that sorted. Whilst we were waiting, ( three hours, Ford Galaxy locks are hard to pick) the local police sergeant rang me to check everything was Ok, but he DID NOTHING!, That's the problem with our police, too many targets and too much paper work!
Check out the starting salaries for a police officer.Ask yourself would you take all the crap and put your life on the line everyday for that pay. They are not superman,just men and women most start out believing they can and soon find out staying alive is their main job. As a peace officer I lost count of the number of times I was spit on,kicked,punched and the judge let the citizen go. Most begin to look the other way and get through the day. If you think you can do a better job you are welcome to it.
Okay, so if I can check out the pay, so can they, right? If they don't want the job, don't take it. As a citizen, I can't tell you of all the things some cops or peace officers do. Tomorrow, one of our cops goes before the board to get his job back after statutory rape. I think he should have to file as a pedifile. If I wanted the job, I would have applied for it, the way I see it is, it's not the job for me. So if people who apply for the job isn't right for it, why would they keep the job. Being a police officer is one of the hardest jobs, with very little respect, that being said, it's like any other job, if you don't like it, quit. Let someone else that believes in their job do the work.
They do not take the job just for the paid anymore than a soldier does.They need to pay their bills too. Like everything about your job,not many do. Like any other worker you have some who do and most who just try to get by, and some who are just stealing the salary. My point most people complain about LEO until they need one. It is a system and the cop is at the bottom . What you believe about the job and what it really is tends to change over time,Have a nice day.
Why are police working for revenue and not stopping crimes?
The Money is Really Really Good!
There are good cops and there are the not-so-good ones, like any job or career out there...
And there are cops who work double-shifts because there isn't enough money in the city's coffers to pay for enough officers. In those cases, it's probably going to take longer to have crimes solved.
As far as speeding tickets, parking tickets, what-have-you, that they are getting you for...If you don't speed, or park illegally, you won't get ticketed, right?
As far as the story someone mentioned of getting checked out for parking in a parking lot...well, what if the cop hadn't checked someone out, and the person shot someone, or held someone up? Then the cop would've gotten harassed for not doing his job, and checking out a suspicious vehicle...sometimes they can't win whatever they do.
With the rash of police being killed in the past month, it makes me sad to see a whole thread of people complaining about them...
In our area, a 40 year old police officer was gunned down and killed--all she was doing was taking pictures of footprints with a camera outside of a trailer, where a complaint was made. The guy just opened the door--stuck his shotgun out, and killed Officer Hopper, just like that. She didn't even have time to defend herself. Then another officer was injured in the resulting shoot-out following.
This is the article, if you'd like to read about it:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/cri … 43369.html
I'm not trying to anger anyone, but I felt like I had to speak up in defense of cops, because there are a LOT of people out there who wouldn't be alive today, if it wasn't for them doing their jobs...
Again, not complaining about LEO. Somewhat outraged at how LEO works as a business. Outraged at how LEO have to do this job while under a world of scrutiny and persecution. I should have made it clearer; not complaining about LEO. Merely baffled by the way cities and countries run their systems that these LEO have to work in. I'm not complaining about the police. I'm complaining about their employer.
We all know about police being killed and assaulted in one form or another. It's common knowledge, to anyone who pays attention, that police have it quite rough in some areas, and in leaving their house place their lives on the line.
Why can't they be allowed to target those threats? It's a sin the government is not providing proper funding to the places it matters most, so they (the government) can support what they're supposed to be supporting, the protection of their citizens. I'm sure there's no fat at all in the budget..can't please everyone right? I feel bad for (most) LEO who, like some of my friends, feel like they're being kept from what they signed up for. They're losing faith in humanity, and tired of people in general because all they see all day are criminals assaulting them, or people blaming them for things that are not their faults.
I simply hate the state of the system, and wish they (as in, the leaders, not the cops) would do better. I'm not suggesting police are pawns or sheep, quite the opposite; however they too (like everyone else) have to feed their families and therefore have to do the job required of them by their employer. Not everyone can afford to just 'not like' a job and leave to find something else.
No, I for one am not so arrogant as to think I could do a better job. Just because I could not do a better job, does not mean I don't reserve the right to have an opinion based on the information available to me, about a service meant to serve the public (which includes me).
...in Canada...because there are not enough mental health & addictions services in place (e.g. homeless issues)...cops have turned into social workers as well...that's not their role...that's what has happened...last week a young female cop walked onto the street from inside a convenience store and was attacked by a mentally ill man (who probably should not be on the street, rather in a safe place getting some serious and intensive help)...stabbed and fought for her life; she made it through the ordeal....
...my old man was a cop...in those days he was dealing with criminals and unfortunately, domestic violence....if he were alive today, i think he'd be shocked at how the role has changed...
I wasn't complaining
I agree with what you are saying about the other side of their job and it's risks. It's worse now that drugs like P are so widely used and we've lost a few here too... and our guys don't carry guns!
No one should loose their life as a result of another person's inability to control their anger! Drugs, Booze or Young Age are not a justification for taking the life of another... or damaging their life through injury.
I agree Someway.. My ex FIL was also and the pressures of the job killed him 3 months after retiring from 40 years service. There are more and more Real Nutters on the streets and they are a New Breed... We even had one in our forums here last year... she pretended to be a moose! But she didn't fool us! Everyone knows Mooseskis aren't religious!
Pearldiver--I swear, I wasn't directing my post at you...I took it in the manner you intended!!!
No I knew that Tammy.... Cheers... I just wanted to somehow slip the Moose into the picture somehow!
I have a great deal of respect for the police officers that can perform the job expectations. I can even tolerate some abuse when it pertains to the criminal. The problem however is because people have joined the police force which I believe never should have a primarily concerned about their own safety has become the paramount issue regarding law enforcement. There is nothing wrong with concerning oneself with their own safety per se however if all the people you serve as a law enforcement agent, now they have made everyone in the public the enemy. Now the public's safety is in jeopardy because police officers are so afraid something is going to happen to them they are prepared to shoot and kill based upon their fear.
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try clicking on start a new hub and put this in a hub...I'm not going to read it because it's in the threads. no offence
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