Notwithstanding the instability of the assassins mental capacity is there a deeper frustration and mistrust of the political situation now being played out in our society? Are militias and such organizations geering up to react to the gridlocked and corrupt political process' in our country? The division we see within our electorate seems to dictate some sort of confrontation while the pundits appear to fuel the fire with rhetoric that seems off the mark. Are the ideas being expressed by the different factions not sufficient enough anymore to evoke change or is the time coming when third world government ideas and their solutions become a reality with us as well?
DUDE!!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???
To answer your question. Yes, I believe it's possible. With each passing day and especially each election cycle since the Gore/Bush debacle. Loss of faith in the political process is growing. Frustration is growing. To dangerous levels IMHO.
I have been very busy trying to eekk out a living for the past year and time is precious. I also felt that the conversations in this forum were becoming too full of bravada on both sides of the topics being discussed for quite sometime.
I will pleed guilty to becoming rather cynical and disinterested for awhile as an excuse for my absence.
On topic though, is there a peaceful solution that we can base change on and stop the nonsensical bickering? What can that be or look like?
We have proven with the last few cycles that one party does not have the solutions we are looking for and the "every man for himself" system of governing is just not cutting the mustard anymore.
Yes, the bikering and partisan politics can be arrested. What's needed is for the people to be actively engaged. Since Gore/Bush most civic minded people are WIDE awake. We have been arguing since. Now is the time for realistic goal setting. People need to decide what is important to them. Write that down and send it on to their elected officials. FOLLOW UP! TeaParties should heed this. I suspect that many of the recently elected will flounder if they are not watched closely. Congress has gotten the message, however like a child returning from a summer stay with a doting grandparent they will test your resolve.
So, what do those from the D side of the aisle want?
What do those from the R side of the aisle want?
"So, what do those from the D side of the aisle want?"
Me personally, wanted a chance to see the Obama administration do its thing....
Your side of the aisle pretty much put a kabosh on that...so....there you go! Do you REALLY care what I want?
in a country of 300 million do you think you can get everything you want from your government?
In a country that voted him in....yeah. At least his 4 years. Couldn't even work with him for 2!
He got the largest expansion of government passed. I would think that's quite an accomplishment. Healthcare, isn't that something you want?
We elected an executive, not a dictator. The legislative branch has an equal part to play. The judiciary has an oversite role. It's the way our government works. Do you honestly think he should be able to do everything he wants with out the approval of Congress?
This Congress (the R's) had no intention of working with him. They acted like he was their enemy rather than a co-leader.
They said as much, and Ole Gingrich's plan paid off.
They got back in power after only 2 years out.
And having really hated those 8 years with everything in me...you can't know how awful it is to have them back.
Nor do you care, I'm sure.
It's just no America I know and love with them at the helm.
And since I'm born, it's been
Bush.....almost all my years on earth with them in charge.......I'm so depressed. And it's only getting worse with every day.
But tough sh*t, huh? !!
At least Russshhhhhhh will have his tax-give-away forever and ever and ever. That's all that matters.
I think that the apothy that has taken hold in this country is more of a link to the past than any of us can imagine. Even the Indepedents seem more and more frustrated by the candidates being offered by the "Big Two" parties.
Without their own candidates fundamental changes can't be made such as term limits, lobbyist reform, campaign financing, line item veto and the list goes on. This is a reality that the big two have been working at for years to bolster their power and retain it.
What is beyond me is that real change has to come at the precipice of failure. Only then do we encounter a willingness to make the changes kicking and screaming the whole way.
Perhaps and hopefully the kicking and screaming is being realized in its' early stages now.
Lot of truth there.
The Democrat Party membership(NOT THE LEADERSHIP) needs to realize that their party has been hi-jacked by the far left. They are funded by special interest groups with deep pockets.
The Republican Party membership(NOT THE LEADERSHIP) is going to have to realize their party has lost it's way completely. They are controlled by big business with deep pockets.
Both memberships have to take their parties back! The growing number of independents tells us that both parties are missing the mark.
The spineless Dems are simply the flip side of the Republican 'coin-ime'. Politicians always were for sale as the costs of running a campaign are insane. There were always shady ways to get hefty funding to the pols via corporations and industry. These people expect a return on their investment.
Now the corrupt USSC has made secret direct purchases of politicians legal.
The final 'nail in the coffin' of the US grand experiment was driven in in 2000. There wasn't even an attempt to hide the fact.
Obama's no better than Shrub. He's continued the Patriot Act as well as other nefarious acts.
I happened to catch John Kerry (Nebraska) nail his debate opponent by asking him straight out if the opponent though he (Kerry) was 'bought and paid for'. It was a master stroke as there wasn't anything the other could say which wouldn't be his 'death knell'.
Considering killing has been around forever I would say no it is not a sign of the times.
Does generalizing this latest incident make the act of this mentally ill individual seem more random and thereby more palatable to you? Or is it just a normal act that is more a statistic we can lump into one crazy event?
Does making a lone psycho the tip of the spear of the coming civil war make it entertaining for you?
This idiot woke up Saturday morning with the intent to kill people, his lack of accomplishment and fame drove him to murder.
Thats what happened, any attempt at making this more than that is disgraceful.
Of course in "Your Humble Opinion"
If you feel I am trying to entertain or amuse you I appologize for the imposition of my query. I am posing a question that seems valid to me.
If this "Idiot" just had the idea pop into his mind then I guess you are right. I just wonder how he got the deranged idea it was okay to shoot his way out of the dilemma became a thought to action of his anyway.
Where is our responsibility with the way we carry on our discourse with relating to each other when military and violent terms are applied to political campaigning and rhetoric? Surely a sane person can distinguish between the two but are you ready with gun in hand when some nut turns up to the next rally to take him out?
I am sorry if you feel discussing this is discraceful.
We have to remember, according to law, the mentally ill ARE still responsible for their own actions in many cases. We saw this with the attempt on Reagans life. I think we will see it again here. The idea that "tone" or "rhetoric" or "vitriol" is to blame here is pretty dangerous. It discourages discussion on topics that typically become heated. Politics and Religion. There is no avoiding that. To stifle opposing views simply based on delivery is just as apt to create civil unrest and violence as over the top rhetoric.
I agree with you in that one, whether sane or insane, onehas to be held accountable for their actions.
No one can be held accountable for what another individual does as a reaction to their ideas or speach. That only makes sense in a free society but it used to be harmless in its' content. Attacking people and ideas with calls to actions akin to violence is not constructive and should be accountable to the individual making the point only as far as self constraint. It serves no purpose other than to be provocative and shocking and confuses the intent of conversation to work out differences. I am merely offering that the ideas are the contention and not the indivduals.
People who are stirred up into a lather over contentious issues are more suseptable to action and when furthered along with more concrete idealogical actions being suggested, seem to react.
were we not born of violence? The US? Was it not speach that ingnited the flame? We should not neccessarily shy from this. We should measure the cost. We should examine closely what it is we expect to gain. The left is right, to continue this "tone" will lead us somewhere. The right is correct in pointing out that circumstances and responsibility are two separate issues. During times of war and tough economic times violence of all types increase. It's a fact.
I think it goes deeper than that. It is in our nature to be called to violence when confronted with fearful ideas. It really is a shame that our humanity cannot overcome the caveman reaction to the threat.
Maybe we (the human race) is not ready for the conversation and may not be for quite sometime.
It is also a shame that we seem to repeat our mistakes so quickly and easily. Maybe this is the part of our nature that will be our undoing eventually. The illogical eventually exhausting the will.
That's the irony of basic human nature. We are driven to live, yet we are destructive. It's how we rise from the ashes that makes us unique.
Irony abounds as you indicate.
The Northridge California earthquake showed what can happen when all work together. I'm speaking of the maintenance worker in a multi-level parking garage trapped under all the rubble. A multitude of folks in various disciplines did everything they could over the course of a few days to get the man out.
Here the threat was to the wide spread circle of humanity illustrated in the dire straits of one individual.
Sadly, problems arise when smaller groups deem themselves to be under threat. Many times said group ties/membership overrides ones common humanity. Religion is very often quite the violent 'trigger' in a response. Understandable, since the fantasy(ies) repercussion(s) to said believer(s) are so dire.
What about that tea-party guy who shaped his hand into a gun and pointed it at a Republican politician?
Should that kind of thing be stifled, or allowed to flourish as free speech?
And if so, why don't we bring back the 7 banned swear-words? Why stifle anything at all?
My point LMC is this. It would be nice if we could simply get our ideas out there bring them together and compromise. When it comes to politics it rarely happens. Issues should be argued on the pro's and con's, not the delivery.
The only thing pointing a gun means is "do what I say or I'll kill you." Gvt by thuggery.
I think it was a citizen pointing at an elected official. That's not government by thugery. It's a citizen expressing frustration. Is it over the top? Probably. However we need to keep in mind that a threat isn't real unless someone realy means it and has the means to follow through.
It was a tea-partier. Like I said before, I think they are terrorists. So, in my opinion, they would kill him with no problem. As well as me and my kids. That is how I see them. And I've seen them before...in many guises.
You may think they are hero's of liberty---I think they are murdering thugs.For hire. For coprorations and the like.
nah, no one's seen him since satu...OH NO person of interest?
The DSL line to the shack runs kind of slow at times.
The fortress of solitude with a window to the world. Sometimes it seems ideal!LOL
I'm sure he'd let you try it out sometime. He's a very affable chap.
Oh great seer into the minds of the crazies, how does one gain the ability to make such rediculous comments? Unless you spent the night with this guy, how would you know, for a fact, that he woke up bored and decide to kill strangers? I'll bet it was you that brewed that last cup of TEA that sent him over the edge, wasn't it?
"This idiot woke up Saturday morning with the intent to kill people, his lack of accomplishment and fame drove him to murder." seems to be based on opinion and not a lot of facts. Unless you consider the fact that he probably woke up that morning as most of us do on occasion. That is usually all the connection that the right seems to need.
And on the subject of the left and right, shouldn't it be the left and the wrong? I know that many assume that since the word right appears on their name tags they are in fact alway so.
Yes, It is a sign of the last days of the endtimes. The bible speaks of the increasingly amount of evil in the last days, and we are witnessing a tremendous increase like never before. This is very hard to deny, because it's staring us right in the face everyday.
How does that relate to the Koran or the Torah? Are the end of days in alignment with these beliefs?
Basing an argument such as this on prophesy does little more than create and air of fatalism and provides no answer to the task at hand. We are doomed to death and failure because of why? Because we have not done the right thing and deserve our punishment or are we to understand the outcome is to happen despite any effort? If it is the latter then I guess it will have to get worse.
Well, my friends, the time is drawing near. Less than 2 yrs to the top of the Great Roller Coaster. Sign O' the times? So many signs have been given to THIS generation that it would stagger your minds. Yes, it is a sign, and those signs will increase, exponentially, rapidly. How is it all connected? Three. That's how. Three. If you don't know what three means...I geuss you weren't supposed to.
If this is the case then I understand your comfortable demeanor and agree we had better get with the plan.
But avoiding the gist of what is being discussed by opining about the inevetability of a prophesy can only edify you and does little to help in an open disussion.
I commend your belief and think that it gives you comfort when all about you others seemingly waste their time with the labor of working out the details. Belief is a funny thing, it ends conversation with no logical evidence to support it.
Excuse me, just answer the question. Which I did, to the best of my poor, pitiful ability. The time to worry about the storm was when it was on the horizon, not when your ship has been destroyed and the gales of November are upon you. Now, it's just HANG ON TO YOUR HATS! And, finally, I didn't write the prophecies, I merely REPEAT the prophecies we've ignored.
Think, you might have just STUMBLED onto the SOLUTION. Of course, why didn't we think of that before! How silly of us! Wanna hear the idea? Pray for a flippin' miracle.
All these so called "signs" do, is provide a steady income for the sign makers. A black cat crossing your path is a sign you need to turn around, Spilling salt is a sign you need to throw some over your shoulder. All these signs actually do is prove that modern people still hang onto the pagan religious superstitions, their current religion of choice grew out of.
The xian superstition stole from older and then current superstitions before they 'filed the serial numbers off and put their stamp on it'. Their superstition remains pagan.
I am currently listening to the audio book version of "The Evolution of God" that deals with this subject in some detail. Very little of modern day religion isn't borrowed from the pagan religions and hunter gather societies. Rites, rules, celebrations, fears, prayers have all been handed down from each version of each religion to the next.
No offense to your beliefs but no it isn't.
Its a crazy person killing other people, happens everyday and has for some time.
So if someone commits murder they are just some crazy person, not someone with a motive?
Did I say that?
No, I said crazy people kill everyday, make it more if you want.
I don't think he said that. But in CONTEXT yes, I think it's safe to say that this was a crazy person. A crazy person who had a motive. A motive established by a flawed mind.
The battle has been waging for an extremely long time, Jim, far longer than you seem willing to admit. Wandering after the beast is fun with your eyes closed, I will admit, but Karmic wheels turn, crows come home to roost, and the eaters of carrion gather where the corpse does lay.
me thinks ye flowery words reach too many ears.LOL
All in the name of Rock and Roll. You can't see this, but I'm headbangin' and holding up the DIO sign!
Besides, it is quite obvious that those who have the ears to hear...
Absolute poppycock. Global warming is to blame.
God does work in mysterious ways, I totally agree with you Ron.
I disagree, it's those hormones they put in those Dunkin Donuts and Cawfee.......
Which are added to combat GLOBAL WARMING!
Believers have been spouting that Endtimes bovine effluent for almost 2k years. One would expect they'd have learned something from the multitude of past mistakes.
As for the 'increasingly [sic] amount of evil' nothing is more evil than the Abrahamic superstitions. Eternal torture for "God's" jollies isn't evil? The destruction and drowning of Queenland Australia is loving? How about the millennial length (being kind here) of religious institutional; child abuse, murder, torture, coercion, deceit, blackmail, and more which was scripted by the xian god?
Many (most?) xian's don't have a problem with this since they, personally, aren't in the 'cross-hairs' of their demon deity's 'largess'.
What xian's don't seem to realize is that to all other xians you are that 'someone else'.
Your screen name is interesting. Might I ask how you came up with it?
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