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Let the Quorum Continue without those Wisconsin Democrat Senators

  1. Flightkeeper profile image77
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    Since they walked out, their actions should have consequences.  They should amend their process so that a quorum can be formed from present legislators and let the vote go through.  I'm fed up with this crap and am surprised that the Wisconsin citizens allow it.  The state senators are there to do a job, not leave in a huff like a bunch of divas because they don't like what's going on.  If you don't argue it out, how are you going to some sort of conclusion.  There's a lot of problems in each state and hijacking the process should not be allowed.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You really didn't think this through did you?  How do you change the rules for establishing a quorum without having a quorum to vote on the change?  Take a deep breath and try again.

      The process is in fact working, just not to your liking.  Get ready for more, this will be happening across the country as people wake up and realize just how dangerous it is to let teabagging morons into positions where their ignorance actually has consequences.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image77
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly you showed how stupid and ossified the Wisconsin state legislative process can be.  Thanks.

      2. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Nicely said, Ron.

      3. Terry.Hirneisen profile image78
        Terry.Hirneisenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        My man RON!!  You said it well!!!  These conservatives seem to be brainwashed by the super powerful rich.   Do you think they are polluting the water with drugs that erase all commonsense?

        1. Doug Hughes profile image60
          Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "Do you think they are polluting the water with drugs that erase all commonsense?"

          They aren't putting anything in the water except tea.

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Glen Beck pisses on their backs and tells them it's raining.  Silly bastards believe him.

        3. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think money is polluting them.

      4. profile image61
        jimburnsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wow, sorry I guess this is where the, to paraphrase Alexis de Tocqueville, "liberal children" gather; I just wandered by accidentally but had to respond.

        IN FACT Ron, the rules CAN be changed, it all depends on what TYPE of laws are being considered.  Article IV of the Wisconsin constitution only requires a quorum of 51% of the members to handle that type of business.  So, YES, they in effect CAN vote on a rules change.

        So, about that deep breath and trying again?

        What you liberal children miss... well, in addition to working brain cells, is the FACTS.  And you get those from real work and study, not emoting your wishes.

        deep breath!

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanx mr. sockpuppet. roll

          1. profile image61
            jimburnsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You bet, glad to help.

            But ain't it interesting, that's all you have to say.  I mean, YOU are the one who immediately turned condescending, juvenile (teabagging morons) and moronic in a nice 79 word diatribe AND

            never once spoke to Flightkeeper's actual message or intention.

            How's that ultimately helpful or advancing the discussion?  (Rhetorical)  It's not.  But then again, liberal/progressives aren't interested in advancing reasonable discussion, they are today's populist oligarchy, which is to say, they are the proof of Tocqueville's concern and what our founding fathers knew intimately, that populist democracies drift toward despotism.  For a modern look at this (since the old texts are tough to read,) I would direct you first to Prof. Paul A Rahe's recent book, "Soft Despotism, Democracy's Drift."

            The greater point vis-a-vis Wisconsin is clear, historically the nature of the quorum was NOT in fact to provide a mechanism to negate government action in the positive (such as to prevent a vote to "pass" a law."); it WAS to prevent government action in the negative, such as a hasty and secretive meeting, selected at such and such, inconvenient place and time, such that a majority (party) might quickly and stealthily pass legislation without fair and due debate and consideration.   (Article IV stands in evidence of course.)

            Now, today, as a people we are not embodied culturally with such concepts as virtue, honor, duty, etc. as our forefathers, and thus, we are more apt to ignore such concepts as "intention," "philosophy," "original meaning," and instead merely interpret what we wish, as we wish, to simply accomplish our aims.  But make no mistake, this lack of virtue, this ability to subjectively misinterpret by a rabid adherence to the "letter of the law" concept regardless of intention ONLY serves to foment confrontation and, in the end, if allowed to continue can only end one way.   You need to realize that government is never the answer, at best it can be but a bearable compromise; and you can start by educating yourself effectively and honestly rather than drinking and celebrating with the "Flat Earth Society" every night.  (Not that I have any illusions that my comments will have any help.)

            Regards,
              Sock Puppet, Ph.d.

    2. LiamBean profile image88
      LiamBeanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And yet Abraham Lincoln did just the exact same thing when he was a senator.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Lincoln was the first American socialist.  Plus he wasn't born in Hawaii.

        Sic Semper Tyrannis mad

        1. LiamBean profile image88
          LiamBeanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Jeeze Ron. You "sound" like a broken record. Just accept the fact that a foreign born muslim terrorist now runs the country. Once you have you'll relax and bit and lower your blood-pressure.

    3. pylos26 profile image77
      pylos26posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Let the flights continue without Flightkeeper.

  2. Michael Willis profile image77
    Michael Willisposted 6 years ago

    Yes there should be consequences for their actions.

    What I wonder is "who is paying" for their out-of-state accommodations?  Taxpayers or the Democrats?

    "Who is paying" for their travel expenses, vehicles, phones, salaries, benefits such as health care, retirement accrued during their time away from their jobs?  Taxpayer or Democrats?

    Deduct per day from their salaries, cut off their credit cards and I bet they show back up for work when the money comes from their own pocket instead of the taxpayers.

    It does not matter whether it is Democrat, Republican or whatever political party is doing this really. It is against the people of that State and it is a shameful way to act.
    These people should do their jobs as Adults!!!

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      All very good points and unfortunately the Wisconsin taxpayer pays for all of it.  They should wake up before they become another California.

    2. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      They ARE doing the job they were elected to do. In this case they are preventing teabaggers from hosing teachers. My hat's off to them for their loyalty to the worker.

      1. Terry.Hirneisen profile image78
        Terry.Hirneisenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        They want to get rid of collective bargaining for all the unions that did not support the Governor!!   That is right!!!   The people on the side of the governor are blinded by that stuff the super rich put in the water!!

  3. knolyourself profile image62
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "These people should do their jobs as Adults!!!" Think they are. They represent a lot of people who do not want the avoided law-making, like school teachers.
    You may not agree with the method, but the other side of the tracks does.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That doesn't mean that you have to tolerate such foolishness.  Actions that undermine the process should be punished or at the very least have some sort of consequence such as being barred form voting.  I don't like to do certain things at work but I don't storm off in huff to object.  What a bunch of girls!

      1. classicalgeek profile image88
        classicalgeekposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Since the Founding Fathers used quorum breaks, and Abe Lincoln climbed out the statehouse window to avoid a quorum, I don't actually see your point. It's a time-honoured political tactic in this country.

  4. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    Sexist much?

  5. lady_love158 profile image60
    lady_love158posted 6 years ago

    I think walker should fire them all by executive order and hire replacement workers!

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree lady love, but he should do that with the teachers.  Didn't Reagan fire a bunch of air traffic controllers.  Walker should do the same.  I absolute think it's vile that the union keeps bringing up the "it's for the sake of the children" crap.  Helloooo!  The children aren't learning anything because the teachers aren't at work.  Never mind that the reading skills of Wisconsin children are not where they should be.

      1. lady_love158 profile image60
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        They are also violating their contract so Walker would be within his rights.

      2. classicalgeek profile image88
        classicalgeekposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wisconsin is #2 in the nation.

  6. tony0724 profile image61
    tony0724posted 6 years ago

    I would like to point out that here in California the GOP is all but extinct and yet the few who are in Sacramento show up for work. Oh and did I mention that California is becoming a s**tpile except for the weather ?

  7. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    Hi Tony! How IS the weather down in San Diego these days?
    We have been bombarded with rain and the snow level is down to about 1,800 feet. Great for the ski resorts but traffic's a bear.

    Would you elaborate, on what you mean about California becoming a "s**tpile" please? I think I agree with you, but want to make sure we are smelling the same manure smile. MM

    1. tony0724 profile image61
      tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      In San Diego and for that matter the state public employee unions have all but bankrupted this state. We pay probably the second highest taxes in the USA after New York. And I don't know about up in NoCal but down here the freeways are difficult for a Sherman Tank to manuvuer. We can thank Jerry Brown for allowing public employees to unionize in the 70s. Even FDR back in the late 30s and early 40s warned about this. Know why the movie industry moved out of California ? The cost of doing business here is why.And San Diego is all but bankrupt with the local public employee benefits package. I gotta few other gripes but this is my starting point. Oh by the way MM , we are getting some rain today. Have a good weekend my friend.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image77
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Tony, California has the dubious honor of having the highest state sales tax.  New York has a 4% state sales tax and New York City adds its own city tax to that.  wink We are still screwed but New York City residents more so than New York State residents.

  8. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    I have often wondered about that myself, Tony. Why are state workers unionized? But they are.
    Yes, we are on the same s**tpile, my friend.
    Living in Sacramento, I am surrounded by the excesses and abuses of the system.
    I know more people who are "staties" than who work in the private sector. Their stories would boil your blood.

    Last night on KCRA Channel 3 (local NBC affiliate) they aired their report on "government swag." One of their reporters has been working on it for 2 months. Jerry Brown got wind of it and has put a moratorium on spending for "goo gahs" (pens, mugs, bags, tschotckes, etc.)

    Any idea how much state agencies -- collectively -- spent on these promotional items?  Are you ready for this? I hope you are sitting down.....







    $7 MILLION. I kid you not.

    1. tony0724 profile image61
      tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      HOLY CRAP !

    2. lady_love158 profile image60
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Its simple... democrats wanted to develope a system that would allow them to maintain power! If not for public unions Obama wouldn't be president!

      1. tony0724 profile image61
        tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I have said this before and I will say it again. Those cowardly Dems in Wisconsin are not in sympathy with those teachers, they are seeing their campaign contributors pissed off so they ran and hid in order for the money to keep flowing in.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image72
      Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      State workers are unionized for the same reason any workers unionize--in order to have their wishes concerning the terms and conditions of their workplace considered by the hierarchical bureaucracies where they work. This is the right of all workers in civilized societies. In the U.S. this right was established by the Wagner Act known as the "Magna Carta of Labor" passed in 1935.

  9. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    Follow-up rant.
    Did I mention that quite a few of the state workers I know are now RETIRED? At 55?

    1. tony0724 profile image61
      tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That is exactly the same problem we are having down south here. They are retiring young with sweetheart deals no one can afford. A woman in Chula Vista served less then five years for the county bought out her final year and was going to enjoy a lifetime pension till the local paper got a hold of it.

      1. Jillian Barclay profile image86
        Jillian Barclayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Can't find info on that one! I know about the pension board scandal in san diego, but they were not your typical union members. They were hired by the politicians to sink the pension fund-saying the city was making the required contributions when they weren't. Could you refresh my memory on this one? Thanks.

        1. tony0724 profile image61
          tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Here ya go Jillian. It is not union but this is typical of the mechanisms of our local politics. And why Wisconsins budget problems are light weight compared to California

          http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib … adiga.html

          1. Jillian Barclay profile image86
            Jillian Barclayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you! Ms. Madigan got a deal, didn't she? I wonder if her pension deal includes health benefits? That could cost even more. It is things like that, that make people mad! Even liberal, union loving me! So many thieves! And even though I believe in collective bargaining, I have always had issues with the higher up union officials getting the bulk of the money. They are crooks, just like the highly compensated CEO's of the large corporations that got the bailouts!

            You live in San Diego County. Did you know that the city manager of Escondido makes almost $350,000.00 a year (with all his benefits). The city has a population of 144,000 and he makes almost as much as the US President. That is just his salary! If the other highly compensated officials in that city added their salaries to the list, and multiplied it by HOW MANY CITIES? the rank and file teachers, sewer workers, cops, firemen, etc. might not get such bad press.

            1. tony0724 profile image61
              tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Jillian also a city councilman here named Michael Zucchet  left the city council here after he was caught taking money from a strip club owner who had Mob connections too. And now he works for the local unions , go figure.

              1. Jillian Barclay profile image86
                Jillian Barclayposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I know. There were several council members indicted on that one and convicted. One died before going to trial. If it is so prevalent in San Diego County, I would wager that it is happening in every city, county and state, even feds, across the country. How do we get the crooks to police themselves? Is it impossible? We have to do something! Sad thing is that most of these people, with the exception of city council members, are not voted in or out of office. They are hired by the cities, counties and states. It is a daunting problem and I think it may be in the hundreds of billions, if you really concentrate on every level of government, everywhere. Anyway, good night, Tony! Have to get some sleep- will probably have nightmares now! Thanks for the info- see- I knew we could agree on some things! I knew it!!!

  10. SparklingJewel profile image68
    SparklingJewelposted 6 years ago

    here is another opinion of what is happening...I wonder if all the people really understand this? but this article seems to explain it... what do you think?


    By: Timothy P. Carney 02/18/11 8:05 PM
    Senior Political Columnist
    As seen from the rotunda dome, protesters drum and cheer at the state Capitol in Madison, Wis., Friday, Feb. 18, 2011. Union members, students and others have been protesting the governor's bill to eliminate collective bargaining rights for many state workers. (AP Photo/Wisconsin State Journal , Michael P. King)
    As seen from the rotunda dome, protesters drum and cheer at the state Capitol in Madison, Wis., Friday, Feb. 18, 2011. Union members, students and others have been protesting the governor's bill to eliminate collective bargaining rights for many state workers. (AP Photo/Wisconsin State Journal , Michael P. King)

    The ferment in Wisconsin is no workers' uprising against the rich and powerful. It is instead political muscle-flexing by a well-funded special interest group, which is limbering up for President Obama's re-election bid. Obama's campaign, operating as Organizing for America, is bussing protesters to the state capitol and manning phone banks to apply pressure to state legislatures. Obama himself has called Gov. Scott Walker's bill curbing government-sector collective bargaining "an attack on unions."

    While liberal writers wax romantic about a workers' uprising (former Labor Secretary Robert Reich wrote on Twitter "Wisconsin is spreading to Ohio -- America's microversion of Tunisia and Egypt. People are taking to the streets to get their rights"), what we're really seeing is the labor movement acting as a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party.

    Liberals and the White House try to blur the issue by lumping together government unions and labor unions in general. Obama wrongly calls Walker's bill "an attack on unions." It is, at its heart, a measure changing the way the state government procures labor -- Walker would end single-source contracts with a politically connected special interests.

    Government unions in Wisconsin perfectly match the definition of "special interests," a term Obama often invokes. Four of the top six Wisconsin contributors to the 2010 elections were labor unions, with the state's teachers union giving $119,342 and the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees spending $83,888. The teachers union gave 96 percent of its money to Democrats, while Wisconsin AFSCME gave Democrats every penny.

    Government unions spent $573,868 on Wisconsin's 2010 elections -- almost all of it going to Democrats -- while government employees spent another half million, with most going to Democrats.

    Another characteristic of "special interests" is that they benefit at the expense of the public interest. Start with teachers unions that often work against students. Even setting aside the Wisconsin teachers abandoning their students last week in order to protest for higher pay and benefits, the teachers union has fought on the state level to interfere with Milwaukee's trail-blazing school choice program, which is so popular that Democrats in 2009 voted to cap the number of enrollees.

    And of course, there's the budget question. Wisconsin has raised taxes in recent years, and is still facing a multibillion-dollar deficit. Other state programs are being trimmed, and Walker's effort would be about spreading the pain -- specifically shifting some of the government workers' retirement contributions from taxpayers to the workers. If the government unions win, they guarantee more pain for everyone else, especially taxpayers.

    In the romantic liberal vision of this union uprising, determined workers are standing up to the powerful. But there's no fat-cat owner wanting to pocket more profits here. The unions' target in Wisconsin is the taxpayer.

    At bottom, this is the unions versus the people.

    For much of the Left, though, this about protecting the power of labor. Again, this ignores the fundamental difference between public-sector unions and private-sector unions. Even Franklin Roosevelt said, "The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

    As the Wall Street Journal pointed out, campaign contributions by government-sector unions, collected through mandatory dues, help elect the public officials who are then supposed to negotiate with them: "The unions sit, in effect, on both sides of the bargaining table."

    With this kind of leverage, it's no wonder that unions are thriving in the public sector -- only 6.9 percent of private-sector workers are unionized while 36.2 of government workers are. Moreover, as conservatives have long argued, when unions overreach in the private sector, they drive their employers out of business, and so unions only flourish under those employers -- governments -- that can't go out of business.

    While governments won't go out of business, they are going broke. The electorate apparently now has an appetite for austerity, as evidenced by the Tea Party's success, Chris Christie's election in New Jersey, and Walker's election in Wisconsin.

    Obama has shown how the Democrats will play this: as an opportunity to rally the base and try to pump more money out of the unions that spent tens of millions of dollars to elect him. It could backfire if taxpayers see the likes of Walker as a rare grown-up under attack by opportunistic and utterly politicized unions populated by overpaid government workers.

    It's still unclear how Republicans will play this, though. Walker seems to be following the Christie model of standing up to the unions. Knowing Ohio Gov. John Kasich's temperament, he'll do the same. But will any GOP governors feel tempted to go the Arnold Schwarzenegger route of playing ball with the government unions?

    With state budgets in crisis and the Democratic machinery already in all-out campaign mode, war has already been declared -- and if the unions win, the people lose.

    Timothy P.Carney, The Examiner's senior political columnist, can be contacted at tcarney@washingtonexaminer.com. His column appears Monday and Thursday, and his stories and blog posts appear on ExaminerPolitics.com.


    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ … -unions...

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this



      I agree with that.  The public unions pretty much act like mafiosi.  Their biggest victims are the middle class and poor.  I hope Walker breaks them.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image72
        Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Walker has over-reached. The unions may break him. Michigan governor Snyder is taking a more realistic approach in a state like Wisconsin has a strong union tradition.

        1. tony0724 profile image61
          tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Then why our so many states following suit Ralph ?

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image72
            Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not aware of any other states that are following the Wisconsin governor's lead in attempting to abrogate teachers and other government employees' collective bargaining rights. However, if he succeeds, I have no doubt other would-be union busters are waiting in the wings.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Indiana and Ohio are.

    2. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The Washington Examiner is a cheap conservative rag one step lower than the National Enquirer. BTW, the National Enquirer broke a story that Boehner is putting his boner in places his wife has not sanctioned...

  11. knolyourself profile image62
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "More than 50 branches of Barclays bank across the UK have been targeted by activists protesting against tax avoidance." ..."Barclays was forced to admit it paid just £113m in UK corporation tax in 2009 – a year when it rang up a record £11.6bn of profits. A UK Uncut spokesman said: "We are hoping to very peacefully and legally send a big message to Barclays that paying 1% corporation tax is not really acceptable."

  12. profile image0
    IRVING GERSONposted 6 years ago

    Why are so many against unions?

    If there were no unions ever there would not have been any middle class.

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      They don't want a middle class...they want Uber Rich and Poor.

      Poor have NO power over anything...and NO say.

      The Ubers control it all.

    2. lady_love158 profile image60
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Public service employees do not need a union. If unions are so great why then is it MANDATORY to join? When it becomes optional then I'll be happy to support their cause... but in the case of public service employees there is NO ONE representing the interests of the employer... the TAX PAYERS!

  13. Flightkeeper profile image77
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    Now it seems that there are fake doctor's notes being handed out to the teachers.  How funny and ironic is that?  I wonder if anyone in administration will follow up with the teachers to find out if that's true? wink And these are the adults who are supposed to set a moral example for our children?! lol

    1. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm hoping the administration was watching the news - the Doctor was on camera writing fake notes!

  14. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago

    Solidarity

    http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z458/Kos201/Madison/CapitolGrounds.jpg?t=1298138204

    http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z458/Kos201/Madison/Fireman-march.jpg?t=1298138204

    These are the people the Governor is trying to stiff.

    1. rocketjsqu profile image84
      rocketjsquposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The governor is not trying to "stiff" anyone.  Fiscal cuts are painful and need to come from somewhere.  His constituents elected him to be fiscally responsible and that's what he is trying to do.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The Governor is using the state's fiscal troubles as an excuse to go after union workers. He is trying to balance the books on their backs while giving huge tax breaks to rich corporations. 

        Union officials have stated they are willing to compromise on health benefits and pensions, but Walker wants to eliminate their collective bargaining rights.  He is trying to bust the union, simple as that.

        1. Rafini profile image86
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wisconsin is one of a few states that has collective bargaining for state employees - GOV Walker only wants to limit collective bargaining to wages.

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image72
            Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Wrong, the NEA and the United Federation of Teachers represent teachers in many states.

            1. Rafini profile image86
              Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              what's the difference between what I said and you said?  hmm?  b/c you named the union?  Who cares?  It doesn't change this fact:  GOV Walker wants to limit collective bargaining rights, for teachers, to wages only.

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image72
                Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Rafini: "Wisconsin is one of a few states that has collective bargaining for state employees."

                This part of what you said is wrong. Thirty-five percent of teachers and other government employees are unionized.

                1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
                  uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Considering states like California and New York have far more employees than states like Indiana or Wyoming you both could be correct.  The minority of the 50 states could account for there being 35% of state employees being unionized.  If you took the 17 largest states wouldn't that be the few and yet be 35% of the states.   

                  OOPS, dang I get so distracted sometimes....  Whew that was close.  These nits are so hard to catch.   You have to pick them just right or they get away.  Thank goodness I got this one they are so important it is terrible to let one slide by.

                  1. Rafini profile image86
                    Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

                2. Rafini profile image86
                  Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  roll  teachers are state employees - so what's the dif?

                  1. sarahd profile image80
                    sarahdposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Teachers and other government employees in MANY states are unionized and covered by contracts negotiated with state governments, local governments, and with school boards.

              2. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                He also wants to sell the state to the lowest bidder...his Kochy friends no doubt.

        2. J Sunhawk profile image82
          J Sunhawkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          They aren't collective bargaining "rights." They're collective bargaining AGREEMENTS.

          It's a contract, not a civil or constitutional right.

    2. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Police, Firefighters, EMTs are UNAFFECTED by this bill.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        A comment from a firefighter about the situation in Wisconsin.  Link follows.

        "Watching much of the national news, there is misinformation being reported, this is NOT about the fact the gov wants public workers to pay more in health ins and pension, but it is a strip of collective bargaining. Some history here, the gov was making a power grab even before he was sworn into office. He demanded that the legislature and senate disapprove a tentative agreement with state workers because he wanted to "negotiate". He demanded that the state return federal money for a high speed rail project. Once sworn in, his first few bills actually increase spending by giving corporate tax breaks, limiting lawsuit liability on companies, and decreasing the tax on HSAs, all of which were heavily applauded and benefits big corporate sponsors of the gov. The first few bills is estimated to add $70 million to the deficit (despite the budget having a $54 million surplus).

        Now he wants to push through this "budget repair bill". This as well is being heavily endorsed and applauded by the big money corporate sponsors. The bill is supposed to save $30 million with the concessions to health ins and pension, leaving a $40 million difference between this bill and his initial spending. This bill was announced on a Friday and immediately the gov alerted the National Guard. He wanted this bill pushed through the senate and legislature within a week with little to no public debate. The kicker is that the bill strips almost all collective bargaining rights from workers and that is what is infuriating union members. The gov doesn't even want to sit down and talk, despite the fact he could get the concessions he is seeking, instead he wants to make ultimatums. This is not democracy but an autocracy.

        I am proud of the solidarity being shown and am proud to be an IAFF member. As Gary mentioned much of what everyone enjoys today is the results of unions. However, the middle class has been stagnant since the 80's while the wealthy have seen an increase by 22% (from cnn financial). When asking what good unions are today, take a look. The wealthy have been given tax breaks, the idea that the wealthy create jobs is outdated, where are the jobs?

        Sure people pay more for their own benefits and many have taken a pay cut, but what is the common retort? "Welcome to the real world" as though us union members haven't understood what was going on, or the misconception unions always get raises despite the economy when in reality many concessions have been made. Bottom line is that instead of "cheering" the cuts of others so that everyone can "feel the pain".....perhaps it is time for people to stand together and look to improve their own lot. What we see is a divide and conquer and pinning unions as "haves" and everyone else as "have nots", it just isn't the case. Instead it is time to take the middle class back."

        http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/ … officers-1

        1. Rafini profile image86
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The comment from the firefighter (I didn't find the comment when I clicked the link, rather I found many other comments) is really misplaced, I think.  Teachers are the ones who will have limited collective bargaining, NOT those who put their lives at risk for the public!  The firefighters are supporting the teachers because they fear they'll be next.  Why?  Because they assume GOV Walker wants to destroy the union!  It's PROPOGANDA! 

          Protesting against the destruction of the Union is so much more respectable than the truth - the Teachers called in sick in order to protest against contributing to their pensions & a little more to their health insurance.  Using the idea of Collective Bargaining limits as a path toward 'assaulting the unions' is a disguise. 

          If the teachers were really concerned with their Collective Bargaining "Rights" they would have done what any other citizen would do - they would have contacted their state representatives en masse in order to be heard.  If the teachers were really concerned about CBR, and not the amount of money in their pockets, they wouldn't have collected falsified doctor excuses to avoid disciplinary action.  If the teachers were only concerned with CBR they would have presented their willingness to accept financial concessions before anyone could point out their pettiness and selfishness.


          I personally feel the Unions need a major overhaul. hmm

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Have you truly been paying attention?  As Doug pointed out above, the state and local public employees of Wisconsin, including teachers, have agreed to the governor's requested concessions on health care and pensions.  In return, they want the request to deny collective bargaining to be removed.  If this were only about the budget, then that would be enough. It is clearly about union-busting.

            "If the teachers were really concerned with their Collective Bargaining "Rights" they would have done what any other citizen would do - they would have contacted their state representatives en masse in order to be heard."  They did do that.  Why do you think the Democratic legislators left the state?

            Calling in sick is not a new way of protesting to management.  Even non-union employees have done it en masse to protest inequities in the workplace.  Of course, teachers are concerned about their pocketbooks.  Just like those conservatives who are always complaining about taxes.  Isn't it human nature to protect what you already have?  I see nothing unusual about that.

            1. Rafini profile image86
              Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Apparently you haven't been paying attention:  Teachers agreed to the financial aspect only after it became obvious that their main concern was in regard to their pockets.  (money being taken 'from' them to finance their retirement & health insurance with no opportunity to change it back in the future through collective bargaining)

              The DEMs ran away from their responsibility to the people of Wisconsin, rather than face a difficult decision.  They didn't run away for the teachers sake.  They ran away to stall the inevitable. If the DEMs were seriously concerned about the impact of the Bill, they would have remained in the state and debated their terms. 

              You must not have read what I said.  I'll give you another chance to read it properly:

              If the teachers were really concerned about CBR, and not the amount of money in their pockets, they wouldn't have collected falsified doctor excuses to avoid disciplinary action.

              You know, when I lost my $25,376/yr job I didn't know how I was going to survive on $14,508/yr unemployment.  But I manage because I have to.  I think the teachers could find a way to manage without $1500/yr when they earn an average of $52,000/yr.  Don't you?

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                "Apparently you haven't been paying attention:  Teachers agreed to the financial aspect only after it became obvious that their main concern was in regard to their pockets.  (money being taken 'from' them to finance their retirement & health insurance with no opportunity to change it back in the future through collective bargaining)"

                That's how negotiation works, isn't it?  You don't give up what you want without weighing what you are able to keep.

                "They didn't run away for the teachers sake.  They ran away to stall the inevitable."   

                Their plan seems to be working.  Public sentiment appears to be more heavily on their side.  You can argue the legislators' motivation, but you cannot convincingly argue that their position does not support the teachers.

                "If the teachers were really concerned about CBR, and not the amount of money in their pockets, they wouldn't have collected falsified doctor excuses to avoid disciplinary action."

                I already conceded that teachers are worried about the amount of money in their pockets.  You don't have to keep repeating it since I already agreed with you.

                "You know, when I lost my $25,376/yr job I didn't know how I was going to survive on $14,508/yr unemployment.  But I manage because I have to.  I think the teachers could find a way to manage without $1500/yr when they earn an average of $52,000/yr.  Don't you?"

                Sure, they could.  Maybe I even think they should.  That is a separate issue from the union-busting tactics being used by Governor Walker. 

                It seems that as long as the shady maneuvering benefits the side you believe is right, you're okay with it.

                1. Doug Hughes profile image60
                  Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  The protests ARE doing what they should - shining a spotlight on what the GOP wanted to be a fairly private mugging. Rafini suggests that this doesn't affect the police and firefighters 'who put their lives at risk'. Is the right to unionize connected to risk? That's a new concept as regards the rights of workers.

                  The only group I can think of who should not be allowed to organize for collective bargaining rights is members of the military - and I am a vet. But they take the greatest personal risk.   The thought processes of the wingnut are strange.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Apparently, the police and firefighters disagree with Rafini, since both groups are now on the record as siding with the other public employees.

                    An excerpt from a statement on the web page of the Wisconsin Law Enforcement Association:

                    "As employees, we all know that there is more to negotiations than just economics. Under current law, wages, hours of work and other conditions of employment are subjects of negotiation. The Budget Repair Bill won’t just require state employees to pay more for insurance. It would abolish all bargaining other than wages, and those wages would be capped at the consumer price index.

                    The new administration never attempted to start discussions with the WLEA Bargaining Team or any other bargaining unit. They just dropped the bomb on all of the public employee unions.

                    This bill carves out an exemption for “public safety workers”, but if we are honest, those exemptions will be limited. Once the draconian changes are implemented on the rest of the public employees, it’s only a matter of time until they catch the public safety workers too.

                    This bill has some provisions that make no sense, unless the basic intent is to bust unions. One provision makes it illegal for public employers to collect dues for labor organizations. The employer can take deductions for the United Way, or other organizations, but they are prohibited from collecting union dues.

                    How does that repair the budget?"

                  2. Rafini profile image86
                    Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey, co-Wingnut!

                    I only pointed out the facts.  The words I choose are up to me, and I put it that way because that's the way I see it.  I don't think the police, firefighters, EMT workers should have to pay for their health insurance through their employer especially since they are responsible for their employers lives.

                2. Rafini profile image86
                  Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Let's see...25,000 protesters for the teachers Wed - Fri and an increase to 68,000 on Sat due to opposition.  You tell me - who has the stronger showing??

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I will tell you, although you probably could have found the information yourself.  smile  Of those 68,000, only a few thousand supported the bill.

                    "Yesterday around 68,000 people descended on the statehouse in the biggest rally yet, including around 5,000 supporters of the bill who were led by Tea Party activists in the first counter-protest."

                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -bill.html

              2. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Ahhhhh, it's envy.

  15. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Where's the pain on the upper class?

    It all comes from the poor and middle.

    Corporations in Wisconsin JUST got a $140 mil tax break.....OUCH! lol

  16. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago

    Democracy in action

    http://m.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/uploads/wisconsin2.jpg

    http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_wisconsin_budget_protests_ll_ssh.jpg

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/uploads/1/41-Wisconsin_Budget_Protests_Feb_16-18_2011-391.jpg

    1. ReuVera profile image84
      ReuVeraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Impressive....
      All these people should be at work, doing their job and doing it good.
      Do you have kids at public schools? Can they read properly? Do they have counting skills without using a calculator? Do they have mandatory science classes and if they have, what do they learn there??
      First, teachers should prove that they can teach our children properly, and then demand privileges.

      Unless you have enough money to send your kid to a private school, or if you are really following your kids progress and educating him, only then your Wisconsin kid will have some education.

      So, teachers peronally may be great, but the system is poor.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        My kids can do all of those things, and they learned them in a public school district.  I'm not sure what your point is, exactly.

        1. Doug Hughes profile image60
          Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          PP - The point is - if you take college graduates who then suplement their education with special classes and certification to teach, and you slash their pay and benefits to the level of migrant farm workers, they will be motivated to ...

          back in a minute - I have to throw up.

        2. Jim Hunter profile image59
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          "My kids can do all of those things, and they learned them in a public school district.  I'm not sure what your point is, exactly."

          My kid can do them in half the time yours can, he learned in a private school.

          Thats the point.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Oooooooh, Jim, that was so....clever.  lol

            1. Jim Hunter profile image59
              Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Wasn't trying to be clever.

              It just comes natural to those who were taught in private schools.

              That means its normal for those of you with a government education.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                "He that boasts of his own knowledge proclaims his ignorance."

                1. Jim Hunter profile image59
                  Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Very philosifickle.

                  ((misspelled on purpose))

          2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Then what happened to you?

            1. Doug Hughes profile image60
              Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              There are objective scientific studies which compare private and public schools. Bottom line - no difference in quality.

              http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pd … 006461.pdf

          3. Flightkeeper profile image77
            Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Interestingly enough, more than quite a few of those public school teachers can afford and do enroll their kids in private schools.  I guess they don't trust the teaching skills of their unionized colleagues either. wink

            1. Doug Hughes profile image60
              Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And you back this claim up with??

      2. Flightkeeper profile image77
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this



        The graduation rate for Milwaukee schools is 46%.  Clearly these teachers suck, get paid for it and retire well while doing very little to deserve it.  Yeah, it's for the children all right. roll

        1. Rafini profile image86
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So, let's keep collective bargaining in place cuz its doing such a wonderful job!!  lol

          1. Flightkeeper profile image77
            Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Sadly that is what they are arguing and they don't even see how laughable that is.

            1. Rafini profile image86
              Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              exactly why I'm for the bill.

            2. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What a minute...I thought you all blamed the parents?

  17. Flightkeeper profile image77
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    Can't believe a liberal from Time didn't drink the kool aid.  This piece is from Joe Klein.  Wouldn't be surprised if Klein suddenly disappeared.

    Wisconsin: The Hemlock Revolution
    Posted by Joe Klein Friday, February 18, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Revolutions everywhere--in the middle east, in the middle west. But there is a difference: in the middle east, the protesters are marching for democracy; in the middle west, they're protesting against it. I mean, Isn't it, well, a bit ironic that the protesters in Madison, blocking the state senate chamber, are chanting "Freedom, Democracy, Union" while trying to prevent a vote? Isn't it ironic that the Democratic Senators have fled the democratic process? Isn't it interesting that some of those who--rightly--protest the assorted Republican efforts to stymie majority rule in the U.S. Senate are celebrating the Democratic efforts to stymie the same in  the Wisconsin Senate?

    An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can't be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker's basic requests are modest ones--asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions' abilities to negotiate work rules--and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time. When I covered local government in New York 30 years ago, the school janitors (then paid a robust $60,000 plus per year) had negotiated the "right" to mop the cafeteria floors only once a week. And we all know about the near-impossibility of getting criminal and morally questionable--to say nothing of less than competent--teachers fired. The negotiation of such contracts were acts of collusion rather than of mediation. Government officials were, in effect, bribing their most activist constituents.

    Public employees unions are an interesting hybrid. Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed...of the public? Despite their questionable provenance, public unions can serve an important social justice role, guaranteeing that a great many underpaid workers--school bus drivers, janitors (outside of New York City), home health care workers--won't be too severely underpaid. That role will be kept intact in Wisconsin. In any given negotiation, I'm rooting for the union to win the highest base rates of pay possible...and for management to win the least restrictive work rules and guidelines governing how much truly creative public employees can be paid.

    But we've had far too many state legislatures, of both parties, that have been cowed by the political power of the unions and enacted contracts that force state and city governments to be run for the benefit of their employees, rather than for their citizens. This situation is most egregious in far too many school districts across the nation. The events in Wisconsin are a rebalancing of power that, after decades of flush times and lax negotiating, had become imbalanced. That is also something that, from time to time, happens in a democracy.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "I have been informed that all state and local public employees -- including teachers -- have agreed to the financial aspects of Gov. Walker's request," said Sen. Jon Erpenbach, a Democrat. "This includes Walker's requested concessions on public employee health care and pension. In return they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed. This will solve the budget challenge."

      This is NOT an argument about balancing the budget, because the state employees have  AGREED to accept the proposed cuts for the good of the state. It's about breaking the unions.

      Most republicans are oblivious to what collective bargaining is. It's a process which should protect both parties to a contract. Do you think every teacher should separately and independently negotiate their pay with the principal? That each teacher would have a different package of benefits depending on what they hammer out? Some like anarchy - I don't and that's what this formula would produce.

      What's being proposed is that the Governor will decide what the pay and benefits will be - and it's take it or leave it.  Private schools make up a small fraction of the schools in WI. You trained for years to be  a teacher with the expectation that you would be respected and rewarded fairly for your vocation - only to discover that the governor is waiting with an iron collar and chain.

      1. Rafini profile image86
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        GOV Walker proposes limiting CBR to wages in order to avoid an out of control union bargaining the teachers back into benefits provided by the taxpayers with no cost to the teachers. 

        (remember the little to no contribution to their own pension?  or, the 6% contribution to their health insurance while the national average is around 24%?  This is what CBR did for the state of Wisconsin.)

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, I know how it works.  I worked for a governmental agency and we were not unionized.  Management decided to award themselves an extra week of vacation (they called it "administrative leave") while simultaneously requiring support staff to pay an extra 15% for health care.  It all balanced out monetarily.

          Nice for them; not nice for us; neutral for taxpayers.  If we had been union, maybe we could have prevented that little maneuver.

          1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
            uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            How did you escape that hell hole.  Did you wait until the guard went to sleep and then steal the key to your shackles?

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hellhole?  Did I say that?

            2. Flightkeeper profile image77
              Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
                uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile

              2. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Once again, without the smiley icon, FK would be speechless.  big_smile

                1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
                  uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  big_smilebig_smilebig_smilebig_smilebig_smile I hate smilies but mocking them does make me laugh.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, well, after being here a few months one starts to notice certain....ahem....patterns.

                2. Flightkeeper profile image77
                  Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  "He that boasts of his own knowledge proclaims his ignorance."

                  Someone should really take their own advice.

                  lol

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Really?  Was I boasting?  I didn't realize it took a lot of brains to notice a penchant for using smiley faces.

                    Wow, I'm smarter than I originally thought.

          2. Rafini profile image86
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Aren't we lucky that not all employers are the same??  lol

      2. rocketjsqu profile image84
        rocketjsquposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Most republicans are oblivious to what collective bargaining is. It's a process which should protect both parties to a contract. Do you think every teacher should separately and independently negotiate their pay with the principal? That each teacher would have a different package of benefits depending on what they hammer out? Some like anarchy - I don't and that's what this formula would produce."

        In the private sector, without unions, individuals "separately and independently negotiate their pay with" their employer all the time.  Most employers reward their employees based on work experience, competency, and performance, not job title.  The majority of employers, including those without unions, have specific job descriptions that are tied directly to a salary or wage range for that particular position.  They also have wage increases that are administered based on performance and the level of responsibility you have within the organization.  If you work side by side with another individual doing the same job, and your work performance exceeds that of the performance of the person working next to you, most individuals would expect a greater increase than the other person when it comes time for an evaluation.

        Contrary to what you indicate above, there is no anarchy.  People are rewarded for performance on an individual basis, not because some union negotiator was able to collectively bargain for a % increase over a certain time period whether or not everyone earned it.

        1. Rafini profile image86
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          you speak the truth!

    2. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Liberals don't all think alike.  I know it's shocking to you, but it's true.

      I'm not sure I'd call Klein a liberal, though.

      All conservatives don't think alike, either.  I know quite a few who don't approve of Governor Walker's antics.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        There's a dynamic at work that's gonna bite wingnuts in the a$$ - soon. Many self-identified 'conservatives' who fled the GOP to become independents aren't buying what the lunatic-fringe GOP is selling.

        I'm not suggesting independents are signing up to be 'liberals', but they believe in Social Security and Medicare and they are rejecting the notion that the old and the poor must sacrifice to protect the wealth of the aristocracy.

        The GOP is going to be replaced by a new conservative party which welcomes moderates and values compromise. Light is dawning.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I believe you are right.  I know quite a few conservatives who are registered Republicans who are embarrassed by the antics of their own party.

  18. uncorrectedvision profile image60
    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago

    sad :{ :} |sadI don't even know how to make the forsaken monstrosities.

  19. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago

    http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowldc/files/original/flying-cat-fight.jpg

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hi, Ron.  Cute photo!  I'm getting tired and heading off to bed.  Us kitties need our naps.

  20. lady_love158 profile image60
    lady_love158posted 6 years ago

    Collective barganing...with who? In the current arrangement you have the employees bargining with themselves for contracts. Unions give large campaign contributions to democrat candidates and mobilize their membership to vote for them so when these elected officials have to negoiate new contracts with these same unions whose interests will they be representing? Certainly not the employers, the tax payers!
    I would imagine even the most liberal democrats can see how wrong this arrangement is!

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No they don't lady.  They really don't get it.

    2. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And who funds the Republicans lady?

      1. lady_love158 profile image60
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Unions contribute overwhelmingly to democrats that support them in turn through legislation. That's why Obama got elected, remember his speech to SEIU..."you don't have to call me, I'll call you".... democrats esentially pay unions to be democrats and that has to end in the public sector. Government is not a business generating profits and doesn't need to be unionized even FDR was not in favor of public service unions.

  21. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago
  22. lady_love158 profile image60
    lady_love158posted 6 years ago

    What about the elections and the fact that Walker ran on doing precisely what he's doing now? A majority elected Walker to bust the grip of the special interests,  the union on the tax payers purse strings. Democracy has spoken and has said NO to the unions. By the way Walker will pass the bill tomorrow without the democrats. He doesn't need them to pass the provisions the teachers are protesting.


    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/21/n … ion-in-wi/

    Here's the link.

    1. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent Video!  Points out exactly WHY collective bargaining needs to be a thing of the past!!


      (thank you LL smile )

    2. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You bring up a very good point.  As long as the Dems stay out, Walker and the Republicans have a very good opportunity to pass legislation that only require a simple majority and to carry out the things that they were elected to do.  Republicans should strike right now to get the reforms that they want to put in place.

      1. lady_love158 profile image60
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It looks like they are going to give them till friday... I do hope teahers and doctors are charged for fraud and punished accordingly... im sure my liberal friends here would agree they should be held accountable under the law.

        1. Flightkeeper profile image77
          Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Friday?  Those looney dems are probably stupid enough not to show up so that they can have an early start to their weekend.  lol Brilliant!

          1. lady_love158 profile image60
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Lol! You crack me up!! Heck all someone has to do is announce free food and drinks and every democrat in a hundred miles will be there early!

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Did you SEE any T P rallies???

              ummmm, "out-of-shape" is putting it nicely.

        2. Rafini profile image86
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The UW System (the employer of the doctors) is investigating the doctors who wrote out teacher excuses for fraud. YEAH!! smile

          Kinda strange, actually.  lol  The employer is the state!

        3. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not until Bushco is, and I'm not kidding.
          The law is the law, or it isn't!

      2. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah--shove it down their throats , eh?

        Geee...your sudden change in attitude perplexes me.....Guffaw!!
        Negotiable Virtue.

  23. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    Fraud?
    Doctors?
    ????

    1. lady_love158 profile image60
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yup the teachers commuted fraud when they called in sick... and the doctors out on the streets writing excuse notes are also guilty of fraud.

      1. profile image60
        THEOBSERVERposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree....I wrote a hub that goes on in detail of their actions. They should be prosecuted for extortion and fraud. The doctors for fraud! Those teachers should be fired on that basis and when one is fired for a criminal act.....guess what no unemployment for them!!

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Who's the fraud!?
          That gvr did not campaign on destroying 60 years of civil rights....he campaigned on JOBS

          Where are they??
          All he's done is give tax breaks to rich people....gosh, WHAT a surprise.

  24. TheSenior profile image59
    TheSeniorposted 6 years ago

    Wouldn't it be nice if that could be the case, however in all probability the state constitution won't allow for any floor vote that does not have a quoram on the floor, not only that but any Democrat would yell at the top of their lungs and accuse all Republicans of the most vile dirty tricks - just to prevent a vote.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image77
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The quorum only requires a certain number of people and it doesn't have to be a big number, so yes the Republicans have the opportunities if they have the balls to take it.  In addition, since it is the Dems who acted like divas, it's a consequence of their action that they didn't stay to do the jobs they were elected to do.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If that were true, the teabaggers wouldn't be pissing their pants the way they are.  If your posts are actually Sarah Palin's work, you should credit her properly.

      2. Rafini profile image86
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Flightkeeper - Total Republicans are 1 short of a quorum, 1 Democrat is needed!

        GOV Walker has said he wont split the bill for individual vote.  (not really sure what that is, but it sounds like a line item veto in reverse. lol)

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The bill as written involves spending which requires a quorum.  If the union busting language is re written as it's own bill, it could be passed by simple majority without a quorum.

          The problem with that is, it exposes the governor's true motives and leaves no doubt that he's a liar.

          1. Rafini profile image86
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The good thing is the Gov refuses to split the bill.  He wants it passed as is.

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Wonder how much they're paying him?

        2. Flightkeeper profile image77
          Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          My understanding is that a simple majority of 17 members is required to have a quorum to pass non-fiscal legislation. There are 19 GOP senators.  There are a lot of bills that can be passed that are not fiscally related but can influence the fiscal outcome, thus the opportunities.  And they were elected to make the changes that they needed to do.  Hope and change, here we come. smile smile smile

          1. Rafini profile image86
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Right, however, for the CBR they want a full quorum.  I think they also want a full quorum for the entire thing just because of the controversial nature of it.

            1. Flightkeeper profile image77
              Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              That's fine, they can wait for that, there's a lot that can be passed without the Diva Dems.

              1. Rafini profile image86
                Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile  I heard something about it on the news, but can't remember what they're doing. hmm

    2. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, we know, we got quite the education with the record number of filibusters the Repubs pulled...and they didn't even have to DO anything...just send a serf down with their signature.

  25. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    The unions agreed to all of Walker's monetary cuts. So what's the hold up?

  26. profile image61
    PamHposted 6 years ago

    How can you be so ill-informed or maybe just plain brainwashed into being against unions that actually have and still benefits all ‘non-rich’ working people. Your brains are not functioning correctly, as you should be able to tell the difference between what benefits you as a working class person and what benefits the rich and corporations. Even the middle east has had enough of this type of repression and you have been so brainwashed you want to take our country back to 16 hour days, six days a week, and no minimum wage laws. This is what will happen if the republicans are successful at union busting. Wake up people or your children will definitely not be better off then you. They will work longer hours for less money and not be able to own their own homes, be able to afford to go to college or have decent lunches in schools. Just look at what is going to be cut from the budget. We could raise taxes on the rich and large corporations and stop giving corporate welfare to oil companies, no we will greatly reduce the availability of loans to lower income kids who want to go to college, heating for the poor (thank you CITGO for your help as Exxon would not), home mortgages to lower income families and so on and so on. If you make a million dollars, you can still live a good life on 500,000, and don’t tell me they worked for it and therefore they deserve it, give me a break!!!! Teachers, police officers, firefighters and so on have harder jobs then basketball players, CEOs of corporations, bankers on wall street.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image59
      Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Translation

      Whaaaaaaaaaaa, they don't want to give me anymore free stuff, they actually expect me to contribute to my own well being.

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Snort....as usual, the whole point flew right over your head.

        We are tired of the richest people here getting all the freebies....and truthfully--For not really working hard at all!
        3 jobs in one day...THAT'S working hard....and then paying tax at a higher rate than a manicured-nailed suit and tie who sits at a desk all day moving money around on a computer. And I'm not knocking that...many people STRIVE for that kind of job. But hey---pay up! You got it good already, you can pay equally !

        We are not crying, not in the least.

        It's just time for a little fairness and justice in Amurrica...the cowboys are gone...than god. It aint the wild wild west...Bush and Reagan....anymore. And that's not a knock on the real cowboys, just the charicatures (bush/reagan)

        America is entering a new phase....we've been had enough. Bend over Ubers...we drive!

        1. Jim Hunter profile image59
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          What country are you living in?

          "3 jobs in one day...THAT'S working hard....and then paying tax at a higher rate than a manicured-nailed suit and tie who sits at a desk all day moving money around on a computer. And I'm not knocking that...many people STRIVE for that kind of job. But hey---pay up! You got it good already, you can pay equally !"

          Maybe you should have gone to a private school and received a better education.

          As for driving, who's in control?

      2. junko profile image79
        junkoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Shame on you,  jim. You'll cause your own country to fall.

        1. Jim Hunter profile image59
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Let me see if I have this straight.

          The USA will fall because Public sector unions will not have the collective bargaining tool to use?

          Oh well, start falling.

          1. junko profile image79
            junkoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Jim: The fall has begun in most right leaning states. The true is in the pudding and those like you who lie and agitate in support of the right will be proven wrong. The people will understand the right is not for we the people,but those other people. Your shame is not just your stand on unions.  It's your stand against the majority of the people in america.

            1. profile image59
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Conservative people are not people? "The majority of people"? More people self-identify as conservative than liberal in the US by a big margin.

              1. junko profile image79
                junkoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                ShortStory Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you trying to revive a dead thread?  My point is that even conservative PEOPLE will see that the right is for the rich and not for CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE. What people say about party afiliation should be taken with a grain salt.

                1. profile image59
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What exactly is your notion of the distinction between "the right" and "conservative"?

                  1. junko profile image79
                    junkoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    ShortStory: your ignorance is painful. I do believe you have a comprehension problem, and I can't help you understand simple terms and concepts. I suggest you try to express your ideas and beliefs in your first hub,or a thread.  Going two weeks back to ask doom questions only promotes this old thread. You never explain the word cirular in relation to me asking you were you ignorant. I don't follow you and because you have made no stand you have only 1 follower. With all due respect, I wonder.

    2. lady_love158 profile image60
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Newsflash!! Government isn't big corporations... it doest make a profit... government is us and public workers that strike to shut government down are nothing more than revolutionaries fighting to maintain a special elite status they don't deserve... they should be jailed!!

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Gvt is Cheney putting Haliburton in Iraq on a no-bid contract...making a fortune on a war he helped plan....HE should be jailed!

  27. profile image71
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    We'll see in 2012.

  28. Flightkeeper profile image77
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    Walker is playing hardball with the Diva Dems! If a diva dem misses two or more session days, there is no direct deposit.  The paycheck has to be collected from the Senate majority leader. lol lol lol 

    And the Senate is moving on without the Diva Dems, the remaining state senators, mainly Republicans, are going to go through pieces of legislation without them and will pass what can be passed without them. Yes!!  Way to go!!

    lol lol lol

    1. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's about time!!  big_smile smile lol  GO WALKER!!

  29. AnnCee profile image76
    AnnCeeposted 6 years ago

    This email just in from the Purple Bruisers Union (SEIU):



    I deleted the three requests for money.  Why are they always asking their members for donations?   Isn't it enough they use their member dues for political activism instead of a strong union pension plan and benefits for the union members?

  30. knolyourself profile image62
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    " Isn't it enough they use their member dues for political activism instead of a strong union pension plan and benefits for the union members?" Big problem with unions. As a generality the leaders don't how run anything. But they know how to play the part, walking around with their cups of coffee glad handing everybody. Mostly because they come from the renting class and not the owner class.

  31. Rafini profile image86
    Rafiniposted 6 years ago

    I can't find my earlier post on this exact topic (teachers taking students, and protesters being bused in)  but after I denied it, I heard (and saw!) the truth on the news.  Just wanted to post my correction. big_smile

    1. profile image59
      ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are you in a philosophy class?

      1. Rafini profile image86
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol  interesting response to my post.  Yes, I am.  We just finished Utilitarianism and will reach Social & Political Philosophy in 4-6 weeks.

        1. profile image59
          ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Good for you. Who were you reading?

          1. Rafini profile image86
            Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Mill, Kant & Aristotle

            1. profile image59
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Nice. Kant was always a favorite.

              1. Rafini profile image86
                Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                hehehehe


                If you ask me, Mill & Kant say the same thing only from opposite directions.

                1. profile image59
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I would not go that far, but at least you are studying.

                  1. Rafini profile image86
                    Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    hehehe  I'll publish my paper after I get it back.  Then you'll be able to see what I mean....

  32. knolyourself profile image62
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    US news and truth are oxymoronic. How's philosophy class going?

    1. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      omg!  (I soo want to reveal tmi!!)  I just turned in my paper on Utilitarianism yesterday and should get it back after Spring Break (on the 21st)  But, omg!  I had so many ways to go for the paper, and had two instructors read it to make sure I met the requirements - neither one of them could answer the question!  Soo frustrating! 

      Yeah, I don't get along with Utilitarianism.  lol

      (thanks for asking - wow, I'm surprised you remembered!)

 
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