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Let's Make This Clear: Jewishness is a religion not a race

  1. bgamall profile image85
    bgamallposted 5 years ago

    There is a lot of confusion on this subject, what with the banksters being overrepresented by those who have descended from those who practiced the religion of Judaism. But we need to be clear, Jewishness is not a race. Jews are caucasian, and there is no race named "Jew".

    My natural father was a Jewish descendant, and I am adopted and also count as Jewish descendent. But that does not mean I am not caucasian in race. Jews practice Judaism, and if you are a descendant, you could be an atheist, an agnostic, a Christian or whatever.

    I hope this clears things up. Judaism is not a race. Judaism is a religion.

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image90
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What brought this on? Has somebody been giving you a hard time because of your ancestry?

      1. bgamall profile image85
        bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No there was another thread on the success of Jews and there was a lot of misinformation there.

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image90
          Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, gotcha.

    2. AnnCee profile image79
      AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You are not Jewish if your natural mother is not Jewish.  You may adopt the Jewish religion, but you will not be a member of the Jewish or Hebrew race.



      http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

      1. livelonger profile image87
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You are misreading this article. There's no such thing as a Jewish or Hebrew race.

        Why don't you reread more carefully what it says.

        1. AnnCee profile image79
          AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Why don't you tell me what you think this article says?

          Good heavens, there are unique genetic markers, there is a lineage, the Jews themselves call themselves a race.

          The genomes have been traced, the dispersal is documented.



          http://www.commentarymagazine.com/artic … wish-race/

          1. livelonger profile image87
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That there was an original Levantine population called Jews does not mean that there is a Jewish race. That original Levantine population had a mixture of races.

            That there is a Cohen genetic marker among *some* Jews does not mean that all Jews have this genetic marker, even among those who claim to trace their bloodlines to Aaron.

            As for the Commentary article, that author seems to be confusing tribe with race.

  2. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Apply for citizenship in Israel and tell them you are of the Jewish faith. How far will you get? When I was there I was told I could not be a citizen.

    1. Aya Katz profile image87
      Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Israel has a problem with the State regulating religion.

      Even so, not all Israelis are Jews. And not all Jews are Caucasian. And even not all Israeli Jews are Caucasian.

    2. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is in Israel. We are talking about here in the United States. Israel does not define Judaism, and in fact was founded by bolsheviks. Look it up on Wikipedia. The state of Israel does what is expedient for a state that is secular.

    3. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's not true. You can even be a convert and apply for aliyah under the Law of Return. You just have to have lived "Jewishly" for at least a year and have that affirmed by a rabbi.

      If you mean "Messianic Jew" (i.e. Christian) then no, that does not grant you Israeli citizenship.

      1. bgamall profile image85
        bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Israel is not a Jewish state according to the Old Testament. If one were to believe the OT was in force, and I don't, then Israel would have to be sacrificing animals and the whole OT thing, banishing people from the land, etc. Israel does not do that. So to make an OT rule a requirement for moving there is just stupid. Or as I said before convenient for them to set barriers.

        1. livelonger profile image87
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

          Judaism has been changing ever since it was created. According to Jewish law, there are no more animal sacrifices, banishment, etc.

          The problem is that Christians who use Christian terminology and apply Christian understanding to Judaism tend to misunderstand it. The Torah is not the entirety of Jewish law, not even close. (Judaism has continued to evolve after Jesus's life)

          That said, Israel (the modern state) is a secular country. There are many of its laws that have nothing to do with Jewish law. Even Eichmann's execution was a violation of Jewish law, which has banned the death penalty for almost 2,000 years.

  3. Aya Katz profile image87
    Aya Katzposted 5 years ago

    Not all Jews are Caucasian.

    1. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is true Aya. My point though is it is wrong to take even all Jewish descendents, and make that ethnic mixture into a race.

      1. Aya Katz profile image87
        Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with you there.

        1. bgamall profile image85
          bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks, I am encouraged.

  4. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    And Zionist aren't necessarily Jewish, nor practice the religion.

    And Khazars aren't "Jewish" either. They converted for political reasons.

    The State of Israel is not a religious entity.They do not practice Judaism. Or they could never do what they are doing. Period, end of story.

    Any true religion would never allow usury, and that is what banking is based on.

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image90
      Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Any true religion would never allow usury, and that is what banking is based on."
      Whaaaaat?

    2. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting post. Yes, Zionists, like Leo Strauss, could be atheistic. Interesting point about the Khazars.

      True about the state of Israel. It is not Jewish and was founded by bolsheviks.

      True religion does not allow usury, however, the definition of usury is not as strict as some religions say. For example, Jesus expected that you earn interest, in the parable he gave. So some sort of credit was assumed. I would rather see that excessive usury be outlawed. Excessive usury like what we see now from the banksters is wrong, by any standard. Interested in your thoughts.

  5. Jim Hunter profile image60
    Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago

    Jewishness?

    1. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Are you starting a word association Jim? smile

  6. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    Not a race, but certainly a distinct culture unto itself.
    I say this based on my marriage to a NY Jewish "atheist." His parents were ethnically Jewish to the max but patently anti-religious. Would don a yarmukah (sp) at family weddings, but otherwise, no temple or torah for this family.
    I will give examples of the behaviors and mannerisms that make them "cultural Jews" that if you like.
    The extended family includes emigrants from Poland, Russia and Egypt (got out in the 1960s)....

  7. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "Israel does not define Judaism,"
    I thought Israel was founded as a refuge for Jews, not atheist Bolsheviks.

    1. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Both are correct. The founders were Bolsheviks, and religion was not the issue. Protection of the ethnic group and culture was the issue.

  8. livelonger profile image87
    livelongerposted 5 years ago

    There is no concept of race in Judaism.

    Jews can be of any race. Sammy Davis Jr, Yaphet Kotto, and Connie Chung are all Jews.

    There are many, many Israelis who are not Caucasian. The largest populations are of Ashkenazi (European) and Sephardic (Middle-Eastern) Jews, but that doesn't mean every Jew is Caucasian. Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) form a large population in Israel.

    The fact that Jews define their Jewish matrilineally should not imply there is a race. First, if your father is a Jew but your mother is not, then you're not Jewish (traditionally speaking). The reverse (Jewish mother but Gentile father) does make you a Jew.

    Second, anyone can convert to Judaism and Judaism forbids treating converts any different from those born Jewish. Jewish folklore is full of converts who are revered in the religion.

    Think of Judaism as a large family: one you can join, but you can't really leave. smile

    1. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is well said except that you aren't a Jew if you have a Jewish mother and you are an atheist. That definition is only for entrance into the nation of Israel, and comes from Ezra.

      But the deal is, if you are an atheist you can have both parents Jewish and not be Jewish.

      People leave all the time. A minority of Bolsheviks were descendants of Jewish parents. They left.

      1. livelonger profile image87
        livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's not true, at least not halakhically-speaking. If you are born a Jew or convert to Judaism, you will always be a Jew. It can't be reversed. (Although that might be moot if you don't self-identify as Jewish and don't care what the definition of a Jew is under halakha)

        You can be atheist and still Jewish. You may not practice the Jewish faith, but if/when you do, you don't have to convert if you were atheist.

        1. bgamall profile image85
          bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That is a minor technicality. You know what I mean. Besides, if you want to get technical, the elect Jews are made up of Jew and Gentile in Paul's New Man. For me that is the final say on the matter.

  9. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    So what are atheist Bolsheviks doing in Palestinian land?

    1. bgamall profile image85
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      According to religious Zionists, they acknowledge that atheistic Zionists formed Israel but that they would eventually embrace the religion. It is unlikely that that actually happened.

    2. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Where should they go instead? They weren't exactly enjoying a warm welcome where they were living before.

      1. bgamall profile image85
        bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No argument there.

  10. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    So "atheistic Zionists" would not use the bible as property title?

  11. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "Where should they go instead?" Maybe where they expect the Palestinians to go.

    1. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That would be all of the other 22 Arab countries where Palestinians wouldn't be singled and persecuted for their religion or perceived ethnicity. There is exactly one country where Jews are the majority and where being a Jew certainly won't subject you to murder or expulsion.

      You do realize that Jews were kicked out of Arab lands when Israel was formed, right?

      1. Aya Katz profile image87
        Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Do you realize that Palestinians aren't Arabs ethnically and that all the Arabs know this and discriminate against them when they try to go elsewhere?

        1. livelonger profile image87
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Palestinians are not Arabs?

          1. Len Cannon profile image87
            Len Cannonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Palestinians have traditionally been treated very poorly in any country they seek refuge in.

            1. livelonger profile image87
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              A shame for the Arab world. If you mean the refugee camps, that's because the Arab world wants them to live in temporary housing until they're repatriated (when the Jews are pushed into the sea).

          2. Aya Katz profile image87
            Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes. Come on. You read my hub about this. It is not news to you, even if you disagree.

            1. livelonger profile image87
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I have not read your Hub on it, but I have yet to meet a Palestinian who does not simultaneously identify as an Arab. They say Palestinians are Arabs just like Libyan, Egyptians and Jordanians are.

              1. Aya Katz profile image87
                Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Libyans, Egyptians and Jordanians do not consider Palestinians to be Arabs. Palestinians do not consider themselves to be Arabs. They are Judeans who never left, and they went by the name "fellahin" (farmers) till outsiders started calling them Arabs.

                You did comment on my hub "Israel: the Two Halves of the Nation" when it was first published here? Didn't you?

                I'm not trying to force you to agree with me. I'm just saying this is not the first time you've heard this.

                1. livelonger profile image87
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I've taken a look at your Hub, and I completely agree that people confuse Arab, Muslim, Palestinian like they are all synonymous. At any rate, like I said, I have yet to meet a Palestinian who doesn't consider him/herself Arab as well. Maybe there are some "purists" who trace their lineage to Judea or something, but most seem to not have problems calling themselves Arabs.

                  Maybe there's a reliable poll that says otherwise.

                  1. Aya Katz profile image87
                    Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Livelonger, thanks! Like most people, Palestinians are proud of who they are. You will not get any Palestinian today telling you he is a Judean, because they don't want to be associated with Jews, but they will tell you that their people have always lived in Palestine, which if you think about it, is the same thing!

                    And as for those people who care about genetic markers, they've got the same ones.  But I am not all that impressed with the racial argument. I'm just saying, they're not Arabs by anybody's estimation except complete outsiders.

  12. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Ya da ya da there are a million reasons, the point being millions of people come from one land for whatever reason take up residence in another people's land, seems like that is going to cause some major problems.

  13. Len Cannon profile image87
    Len Cannonposted 5 years ago

    A person can be ethnically Jewish but not religiously Jewish and vice-versa. Being Semitic very much is a valid ethnic/racial description.

  14. Len Cannon profile image87
    Len Cannonposted 5 years ago

    I'm hardly a modern historian, but it seems the real issue is that Palestinians are used as living chess pieces by any number of governments who want to use them for their own ends.

    1. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, and it's sad.

      Hopefully they will have their own homeland soon.

      1. Jeff Berndt profile image90
        Jeff Berndtposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed.

  15. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    Just because any individual participates or practices a religion, it doesn't not make them a race. wink

    1. Haunty profile image84
      Hauntyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The easiest way to think of a race is to think in biological terms. Unfortunately, that is also the most racist way of thinking of it. wink

  16. Aya Katz profile image87
    Aya Katzposted 5 years ago

    Livelonger, maybe I am mistaken. If you did not read the hub, I invite you to do so. ;->

  17. AnnCee profile image79
    AnnCeeposted 5 years ago

    I see, the entire idea of "race" is now politically incorrect.  http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm256/teresahawley/emoticons/emoticon_shh.jpg


    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 123707.htm

  18. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    AnnCee glad you made this genetic thing clear. Israel is the only state in the world that has a specific identity as necessary to become a citizen, and allowed to get away with it.

    1. AnnCee profile image79
      AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Ha!  It'll never stand against political correctness.  Political correctness is like an algebra of lies.   Call something something else and you can go through rabbit holes into never never land.  smile

    2. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's not true at all.

      As I said before (which you ignored), you can convert to Judaism and immigrate into Israel under the Law of Return. I've known people who have done this.

      By the same token, a born-Jew can convert to Christianity and not be allowed to immigrate into Israel under the Law of Return. This is what happened to a relative of Barbra Streisand, in fact.

  19. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 5 years ago

    Well, it's certainly both, depending on the beholder smile

  20. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Never much cared for Political correctness. When I was a kid there was always and emphasis on proper grammar. I have always been a lover of slang. So I like to mix and match where appropriateness may be dictated by circumstance. More creative.

    1. AnnCee profile image79
      AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with that!  I also purposely misspell words to tweak the meaning sometimes.   Playing with language is fun.

  21. Jefsaid profile image60
    Jefsaidposted 5 years ago

    Wow! I am not of Jewish faith but probably started this whole debate in an earlier forum.

    However, I am still confused by the issue of race.  Judaism is a religion surely? Those that follow its faith are then Jews are they not, irrespective of race.  There appears to be a particular lineage of people(I am not clear on what that is historically) that have assumed ownership of the religion and the title 'Jews' despite its roots transcend race as it also originally existed in Egypt/Ethiopia and they were of African descent.  It is curious to me as an outside observer that despite the sad conflict, this lineage of people who have inherited the racial description of 'Jews' appear similar in appearance to the Palestinians.

    1. AnnCee profile image79
      AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Read more.

      1. Jefsaid profile image60
        Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        AnnCee.  I think I have understood the Palestinian connection from Aya Katz

      2. Jefsaid profile image60
        Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Ahh! Livelonger explains the rest.

      3. Jefsaid profile image60
        Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I did not realise that the issue of being Jewish was so complicated and diverse.  It is like a World in itself.

        1. livelonger profile image87
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          There's a joke I heard recently:

          There was a flight going from New York to Miami that had a lot of Jewish passengers that was hijacked mid-flight by Islamic terrorists.

          One of the terrorists run up to the front of the cabin, brandished a gun, and screamed, "Who among you in Jewish?!"

          From the back, a man raises his hand and says, "That's an interesting question..."

          1. Jefsaid profile image60
            Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol

          2. Jefsaid profile image60
            Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            There is a similar joke about people from my ethnic background where a person asks a Jamaican "Is it true that you always answer a question with a question" and the Jamaican replies "Why, who wants to know?"

            1. livelonger profile image87
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              lol!

              1. Jefsaid profile image60
                Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Peace and love to the World!

          3. AnnCee profile image79
            AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Funny.

          4. 0
            BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL.
            Brilliant!

  22. Evan G Rogers profile image82
    Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago

    Newsflash: we're all humans. Get over yourself.

    1. Jefsaid profile image60
      Jefsaidposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ????

    2. livelonger profile image87
      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If the topic doesn't interest you, why are you wading into it?

      Or are you trying to define what people are allowed to discuss?

      1. 0
        BunuBobuposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I think he is just as confused as I was when I saw this title.
        The Jewish people I know (about 5) do refer to themselves as a "Race".
        It is kind of a difficult subject since you don't really want to offend people.

  23. ReuVera profile image85
    ReuVeraposted 5 years ago

    I agree with livelonger with everything he says. He knows what he is talking about. I can agree with Aya to some extend, but not absolutely. The nation is identified by history, culture and language. There is no such a thing as Palestinian culture, or Palestinian language. Also, there was no such a notion as Palestinians before 1948. It is the same as to call New Yorkers or Chicagoans "a nation". But is is absolutely separate topic.
    About Israeli citizenship. From my experience I know that Israel law allows immigration to Israel and grants citizenship up to fourth generation of Jewish descendants. Of course, if the trace goes by female line, it is easy- you are Jewish without problem. But even if you have a proof that your paternal great-grandfather was a Jew, you have a right to immigrate to Israel. Only in this case you are not considered a Jew. In Israeli ID (teudat zehut) you will NOT have written "Yehudi" ("Jewish"). This is the difference.
    Also, spouses of Jews are also granted citizenship. There are special cases when Israeli citizenship is granted to "Righteous among the Nations"- gentile people who were saving Jews. Many Europeans who were saving Jews during WW2 have Israeli citizenship. Another example is a brave nanny from Mumbai, who saved a Jewish child during a terroristic attack. Also, Israel grants citizenship to refugees (example- Darfur refugees). The difference is that in those cases, though Israeli citizens, these people are not Jews.

    I would say, that Jews are not a religion (Judaism is a religion), not a nationality, but a Family. Big family of different races (Jews may be Caucasian, as well as black, yellow, red). It is a big Family.

  24. AnnCee profile image79
    AnnCeeposted 5 years ago

    Can political correctness deny that?

 
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