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US&Torture: It's official

  1. Evan G Rogers profile image82
    Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago

    Hey everyone,

    Just wanted to point this out to everyone:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 03686.html

    It's official! The US now embraces torture!

    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      it always has used it, not a new thing at all.

    2. Daniel Carter profile image88
      Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Really? I mean, REALLY!!??

      This is NEWS? It's been known for centuries. War is real. Threat is real. Torture is real. It's always been real and continues. Documenting it in this way won't make it go away. Prosecution won't make it go away. Prove otherwise.

      [Yawn]

  2. profile image61
    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago

    Sleeping naked is torture now?

    1. Cagsil profile image58
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, if it isn't by choice of the individual. wink

      1. profile image61
        ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well, a prisoner is never held by his own choice so I guess anything and everything is torture now. By this reasoning, the circulation of blood in your body is torture, since it is an involuntary function.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Choice does not equal voluntary/involuntary.

          1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            But Mr. Manning's detainment is still solitary confinement, and that means that it's torture.

            1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
              Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The reference says there are no prisoners in the cells adjacent to his. He is not in solitary confinement.

              1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
                Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes he is in solitary, prisoners do not sleep naked in cells with other prisoners; that's common sense, my man.

                1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
                  Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, my man, but Manning sleeps under a blanket. Read the reference.

            2. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Solitary confinement isn't torture.

        2. Cagsil profile image58
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Your rationale is faulty. lol

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
            Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Tortured logic.

          2. Jim Hunter profile image60
            Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, roll his rationale is faulty.

            Your reasoning is sound.

            A prisoner who doesn't get to make choices is being tortured.

            Awwwww, po widdle pwizno.

            1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
              Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this
              1. profile image61
                ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And? An article in the New Yorker citing  "anecdotal evidence" is proof of what now? No one ever said it was 'fun,' but it is not "torture." If you want to stretch definitions to such ridiculous lengths then why not say that any kind of confinement is torture? Depriving someone of their liberty is torture, repeated questioning is torture, paying a fine is torture, not eating your favorite food everyday is torture, not driving a new car is torture, watching 'The View' is torture (ok, that one really is). Would you prefer your hero be kept in a general population setting? Can you guess what would happen to the likes of him in such a setting? Kinda defeats the purpose of a suicide watch.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image82
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      go ahead and do it for the next 30 days in a prison cell with guards watching you day in and day out.

      have fun.

  3. profile image61
    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago

    AAAAAaaaa!!!!! you didn't ask me for permission first before you posted that! TORTURE!!!!!!!! AAA!!!!!AAAA!!!!!!!!!

    1. Cagsil profile image58
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      roll

      1. profile image61
        ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh! Another one!!!! AAAAAaaaaa!!!!! Why are you doing this to me? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy? Don't tase me bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. Stump Parrish profile image61
    Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago

    America has always endorsed torture. Torturing an American citizen with in the borders of our coutry is what the country endorses now. What crime could possibly justify toreturing an American citizen by our government? Telling the truth about our government to the majority of freedom loving Americans who support and fight for the right to be lied to on an hourly basis, God Bless The Faux News Network. Our government kills 1,000,000 innocent people and Americans get pissed because someone told them about it. God Bless American and please pray that the entire country removes it's head from the ass it so loves to kiss.

  5. profile image61
    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago

    Here again we see that the discussion quickly divorces from the actual topic and becomes nothing but a platform for people to vent their subjective political bias and prejudices. Ah well.

  6. Hugh Williamson profile image88
    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago

    If Manning is really suicidal, then the suicide prevention measures are for his own good and justified. If this is being done as a type of punishment, then it's obviously improper.

    I don't see that his atty. has made the case for the latter. Sleeping under a blanket w/o shorts is hardly a gulag punishment. If he should succeed at suicide, the facility would be blamed, as they should be.

    This is quite a far cry from "It's official! The US now embraces torture!" which is an exaggeration at best.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image60
      Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "the facility would be blamed, as they should be."

      Why should the facility be blamed for the willful act of an adult?

      1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
        Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Any incarceration facility is responsible for taking all steps possible to protect it's population -- this includes suicide prevention. Quantico did the right thing by taking these precautions if Manning is considered at risk by statements he made. It's in the WashPost story.

        This is about proper confinement procedures, not politics.

        1. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thats exactly what they are doing.

          But that is not what you said they should be held accountable for.

          "If he should succeed at suicide, the facility would be blamed, as they should be."

          Why should the facility be held responsible for the willful act of an adult?

          Please let me know when you have an answer.

          1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
            Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            OK, once more.

            If Quantico or any other facility suspects that a prisoner is a suicide risk, they are required to take steps to prevent it.

            Quantico is taking these steps so the only question is their motivation -- do they have reason to believe that he's a suicide risk?
            Seemingly, they do.

            Also, you don't think that they're going risk the nightmare of letting a high-profile prisoner end up dead, do you?

            Based on the article, the Quantico facility seems to be doing what they should be.

            1. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "OK, once more."

              Yes I know.

              You said the facility should be held responsible for a successful suicide.

              Once more, why should the facility be held responsible?

              All the steps have been taken to prevent this from happening so what would they be responsible for?

              1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
                Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Incredible. You never heard of "Suicide Watch?"

                Mr. Manning's treatment is based on standard incarceration procedures, not someone's personal ideology. Either our rights and Manning's are to be protected or not.

                In the U.S., you don't have different rules for people you don't like.

                1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                  Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you unable to answer the question?

                  You said
                  "If he should succeed at suicide, the facility would be blamed, as they should be."

                  Even with the precautions in place if he were to succeed at suicide you would blame the facility?

                  1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
                    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Let's stop churning the thread, shall we.

                    Reread my posts if you're still confused. It's really not that complicated.

      2. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I suggest you endure months of solitary confinement, and then you bring your smart ass comments on back here, and let us know then what you think.

        1. profile image61
          ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe a certain someone should have thought of that before...

          1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Before what?  Exposing murder, etc?  Or are you just "down with that?"

            1. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Before willfully and knowingly breaking the law.

            2. Evan G Rogers profile image82
              Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              HA! great come back.

          2. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Reading the article it would appear that he has not gone to trial yet and is therefore according to the rules, still innocent.

            1. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So they are obligated to try and keep him alive until his trial, right?

              1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
                Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Could you shed some light on your point of view here?  It's important, it's an important issue, torturing those who expose corruption is very significant to us all.  Thanks.

                1. profile image61
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't see where he has been "tortured."

                  1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
                    Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Then I suggest that you research the effects of solitary confinement.  Humans are social creatures, this is common knowledge.

              2. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Well, how do I put this? Erm, how about YES!

                Anyway, there is no suggestion that he is likely to commit suicide.

                1. profile image61
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, there was a suggestion to that effect.

            2. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              So?

              He can still be held without his consent and is still subject to the institutions rules.

        2. Jim Hunter profile image60
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Is that what you suggest?

          Nah, I won't commit a crime to find out if being locked up is not fun.

          I'm smart enough to figure all that out on my own.

          Sorry you're not.

          1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not what?  Evil enough to conceal lies and murder?  Concealment of what Manning exposed WOULD BE a crime, idiot.

            1. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't think personal insults like that are necessary or appropriate. Can't have a discussion that way.

              1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
                Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Did you see the comments that the person with the stupid avatar made?  I'd say not calling that person out on his or her character would be irresponsible.

                1. profile image61
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  There again, "the stupid avatar" is just unnecessary. We are not children here. Let's be reasonably civil.

                  1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                    Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    He's a little unhappy.

                    Probably isn't getting enough bran.

                  2. junko profile image81
                    junkoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Short Story:  I see why you join hubpages, to promote civility. You are the civil sheriff, that's positive.  In reply to your inquiry last night, no, just suits.

            2. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "I'm not what?"

              Apparently you can't figure out being locked up isn't a vacation.

              Take a deep breath and calm down little feller.

              1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
                Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, but I do know; apparently you do not.  In Texas, Cameron Todd Willingham was executed as an innocent man; so perhaps your "I'll just not commit a crime" comment was asinine and insulting to everyone behind bars everywhere in the world.  Had you thought of that?

                1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                  Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I insulted everyone behind bars in the world?

                  Oh well.

          2. I am DB Cooper profile image68
            I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Then you should also avoid being accused of committing a crime. Not everyone locked up has been convicted, and not everyone charged with a crime is guilty. If DNA testing has taught us anything it's that even a shockingly high number of people convicted and executed for committing a crime were not guilty.

            1. Jim Hunter profile image60
              Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I have managed to avoid that for fifty years.

              By the way, I never said he was guilty or convicted of anything.

              1. I am DB Cooper profile image68
                I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                So I guess the mistreatment is just for the pleasure of the guards?

                1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                  Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What mistreatment?

                  If he wanted to sleep in his footy pajamas he shouldn't have made comments indicating he was a danger to himself.

                  The guards are insuring his safety while he is legally incarcerated..

                  1. I am DB Cooper profile image68
                    I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    "The guards are insuring his safety"

                    Oh I'm sure they are.

                2. profile image61
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  "mistreatment"?

                  1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                    Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    They took his teddy bear and blanky.

  7. AnnCee profile image77
    AnnCeeposted 6 years ago

    Oh dang!   Who's Obama torturing now?  I didn't know there was a speech scheduled.  My best advice is if you can't stand the pain just shut your ears.

    Oh and don't fly, take a bus.  This administration isn't torturing your privates at the bus station yet.

  8. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 6 years ago

    Innocent until found guilty seems to have lost all meaning.

    Get the punishment in before the trial- just in case.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You've got it!

    2. profile image61
      ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And if he were placed in a general population and beaten or killed? If he were to off himself in his cell? What would you say then? Is "punishment" now to mean anything and everything the way some want to imagine "torture" as meaning?

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So? Isn't the possibility of any remand prisoner being beaten or killed in the general prison population equal?

        I would think that there are a lot more serious accusations that don't get this treatment.

        1. profile image61
          ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          NO, it is not equal. That's why some prisoners are kept in solitary and most are not.  You need to go have a talk with someone who has worked in prisons and have them explain it to you in detail.

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Urm, I would think that the risk would be far greater with sex offenders, killers, and a whole host of crimes than giving away a few secrets which is far more likely to  gain the approval of the general prison population than its condemnation!

            1. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Skinners don't last long, but neither would a traitor like him.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                An accused traitor, aka an innocent man.

                1. profile image61
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure, inmates always respect that principle...

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe they don't but the prison system should and it should with dignity and resource, not contempt and disregard.

          2. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image91
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            For profit prisons in the U.S. is a cancerous entity in our society represented by such corporations like the GEO group and the Vanguard group.  You can bet everything that you own that Mr. Manning would be a hero to the prisoners of any prison.

            1. profile image61
              ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              You would lose that bet, and he would last about half an hour in general population of a civilian prison. Five minutes tops in a military prison.

  9. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 6 years ago

    Nothing new about it, unfortunately....

  10. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "President Obama today signed an executive order [that was Mar 07/11] that will formalize the indefinite extralegal detention of terror suspects without charges as a permanent aspect of American life, while announcing that he intends to use this on detainees “who continue to pose a significant threat to national security” but against whom there is insufficient evidence to actually charge them with any crime."

  11. Hugh Williamson profile image88
    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago

    The Post article cited a blog which speculated that the guards would probably mistreat him moreso now that he complained. Sourced from a blog, mind you, not from any legit news source. That makes it an editorial and not an unbiased piece of reporting.

    Quantico is different from other prisons in that it is a military detention facility.
    Manning is a military EM, in a military prison, accused of using his military job to divulge classified information.

    Should he have more privileges than military personnel who haven't been accused of a crime? I can't recall my superiors ever asking me if my apparel and accommodations suited me.

    Evidence indicates that he is being treated fairly.

  12. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    They are trying to break him so that he will confess and implicate wikilieaks
    Julian Assange, so that they can hold Assange without trial indefinitely.

    1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
      Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How long will he have to sleep in the nude before he breaks?

      The case against Manning is pretty strong. Assange has bigger problems right now than facing the music in the U.S. He's probably slick enough to avoid being extradited anyway, so Manning will be left to take the rap. Assange can keep his skivvies on when he sleeps, for now.

  13. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "How long will he have to sleep in the nude before he breaks?" What's the temperature I wonder? From what I have heard he is in solitary confinement and has to sit upright on his bed all day, and and every-time the guard says 'Are you all right", he has to say "I am alright". But I may be wrong. It is not like pulling finger nails. But as a test, maybe you could try it for a day or maybe even 7 months.

    1. Hugh Williamson profile image88
      Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not accused of treason. Otherwise, I'd be happy to.

  14. Hugh Williamson profile image88
    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago

    ...and did you ever consider that there may very well be agents and their contacts in other countries that were or are being tortured to death because of what Manning/Assange did?

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image92
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "because of what Manning/Assange did?"
      Because of what Manning is accused of having done. He isn't a convicted traitor, and until he's convicted, he still has the same rights as any other person.

      It's important to remember that.

  15. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "same rights as any other person." No he don't that's old hat. Yesterday's news: Obama Approves Indefinite Detention Without Trial". Same rights is just tradition anymore.

  16. Hugh Williamson profile image88
    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago

    There seems to be a lot of license being taken with, and in, the article. Read it with an eye toward whether it is based on unbiased sources or unsubstantiated conjecture. I found the latter.

    1. Manning is in Maximum Security, not solitary. He's not alone in a dank cell. Don't confuse him with Papillon.

    2. He isn't tortured, unless you consider sleeping commando to be torture. He has a "shred proof" blanket.

    3. His undees were taken away after he told a guard he could use them to commit suicide if he wanted to.

    He may or may not be proven guilty and sent to Leavenworth, but life in the Brig isn't nearly as bad as he's making it out to be. This is posturing for more privileges.

    Well, as they say in Stir, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

 
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