http://m.blogtalkradio.com/show.aspx?us … =hot-topic
Listen to the discussion and decide for yourself!
i live in the land of dial up,... so listening to the discussion is not an option,...
however, my aunt judy says that obama cant be the anti-christ because he's not good looking, and the bible says that the anit-christ will be beautifull,... and acording to her, he's ugly.
since shes the self apointed authority on all things concerning beauty, i guess her opinion stands.
of course she's convinced that the bear minerals make her georgeous and that she looks good in leather,.. so it could go iether way.
No Obama is the puppet of the real anti Christ. George Soros. So are Hillary and Bill.
No the "anti" Christ is Paul of the new testament, for which, is the foundation of the Church.
Lady, perhaps talk radio is getting to you. Try Alternet or some real news for a change.
WOW, alternet, really - a news source so stupid that this was the top story at noon today.
http://www.alternet.org/economy/150192/ … rotesters/
Think Lady, if he really was the so called Anti-Christ, all would love him, be lulled into false security, very very few would suspect him and over 80% would follow in blind bliss.
He's no CEO or real leader, look at his fruits, what he makes priority, no
no anti anything, just a lousy CEO with idealistic advisors, IMHO for what it is ever worth.
nope, he's not.
And this is a pretty low post.
Well according to Republicans he's a muslim - so how can he be the anti-christ?
I know! And by golly--how ballsy of him to go from being a Black Theologean to a Muslim!!
I mean that's really quick to change your religion isn't it?
Christian to Muslim, now back to Christian as the anti-Christ??
Holy cow, that Obama has my head spinning! snark
How can Shining Handsome Obama be the Anti-Christ. Isn't the Anti-Christ supposed to pretend to be Christian? SHO can't be the Anti-Christ because he is a Muslim, AH HA HA HA
The anti-christ is a word derived from the bible. Description of it is also explained. Reading it should give us hint if Obama really fits to be the anti-christ. I think the hubber of this question should explained anti-christ through the bible's context.
Nope he is pro christ...Infact he is much pro to how jesus wanted world to be...previous regime can be said as anti christ...but obama is true follower of christ as can be seen in his policies...
Do you mean the anti-christ as a metaphor for evil or in reality?
unfortunately evil is subjective word...take for example two different faiths...one x and another y...if handful believers of x does something wrong with people of y , from y perceptive x are evil but from x perceptive ,handful of x are trying to do god's job
LaLo, are you running out of new Obama bashing topics?
This one was covered only a few short months ago.
Or maybe we're on a non-news cycle.
We can expect the same bogus, tired accusations to pop back up on a regular rotation?
The answer is "Of course not!" There can only be one anti-Christ, and that is Glenn Beck .
This post says nothing about President Obama, but it speaks a lot of the person who posted it.
Hey I was only starting a discussion. Here is another view elogantly stated which captures my feelings about Obama and the democrats vision of our government
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/ … obama.html
but all those visions are in synergy of how jesus wanted the world to be...socialism , no war , not defending oneself, living for others , loving enemy...it is all jesus preached...obama is pro jesus , bush was anti jesus and so are most republicans ...they talk about war , profit and such stuffs which is opposite of what jesus taught...in that respect i personally am republican to some extent...
No! You are wrong!! You are corrupting the teachings of Christ! The last thing He wanted was for us to live under socialism.
is it?...well am not talking about jesus from bible..i am talking about jesus which lived 2k years back...and his life is best example of how he wanted humans to live and not book which was written years back...if jesus wanted to live any different , he would have lived that way...he loved everyone , never ever used force even to defend himself, he was pro poor , he was pro suppressed...that is what his life ,one can conclude on...last thing he was is capitalist , last thing he was pro war and last thing he was is politician or corporate guy...in that sense i am more into profit , capitalism and so am not what jesus was as per his life and i dont mind that but obama is pro jesus as per his policies...
Oh really? Tell me... how does someone that's poor help the poor? Wouldn't Jesus have to have made a living to support himself with enough left over to help others?? What you are suggesting doesn't even make sense!
religious head never make their own living...muhammad was exception and that too before he took over mecca, from that time onwards he was political leader too but that is not my point...point is jesus was never profit making stuff, never pro war , never invaded any country nor intended to , never closed down his border , never promoted dictators , never manipulated regions for oil...if obama wants to be anti christ , he has to invade other country , promote dictators , manipulate other countries , close down border , make more weapons ...having government running to save banks ,having pro poor policy , not attacking libya , talking about peace etc is not going to make him anti christ , infact it is going to make him more inclined toward christ...
Grew up poor (bartered goat meat to get my teeth cleaned cause my mom couldn't afford the dentist otherwise). We helped the poor by donating out time to help bake treats for bingo night at the local church, drove our truck to the closest large city around (a day's trip, a very long day too) to pick up discounted food that we bought with the money earned selling cookies and brownies on bingo night. My mom and dad spent the day of the food drive going to the homes of the disabled poor who could not travel to the church while I helped out at the church with those who did visit. We got 2 bags of groceries, just like everyone else with our family size. We were poor, we were helping the poor, more so then those religious people who went to the church every sunday (we didn't and oddly hardly ever met anyone who did go to the sunday services).
now this is pro christ...kirsten ,i thought you didnt believe in christ!!!!!!!!...on serious notes christ ,the man who lived 2k years ago was all that you did ...can be said as not practical by many but that is what jesus kept on doing for his entire life...
I don't have any beef with Christ, I have beef with his mindless supposed followers, especially the large population of hypocritical followers. If JC came knocking on my door today asking for a meal and a spot on the couch I would like to think I would be preparing the meal in my head as I opened the door wide. I believe in actions, good actions preferably
I have had homeless people crash on my couch that I had only just met that day, I think had I been anything but poor I would not have been so happy to open my door to some 14 year old pregnant homeless teenage girl (who incidentally left early in the morning, leaving my stuff strewn everywhere, looking for something to steal I guess, not that she found anything, I think I lost 50 cents that day!). Thing is I didn't have anything worth stealing so my couch often had someone crashing on it. Had one or two trash the living room trying to find something to steal but more folks stayed for breakfast in the morning (what little food I had was shared). I do wonder if I would be happy to do the same now, now that I have stuff of value to steal?
That is a shining diamond in this thread! Thank you.
Have you every actually read the Four Gospels? Jesus is pretty clear in his views on money!
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven."
What does that have to do with socialism??? Of course Jesus wants us to help others. He wasn't suggesting that it is a sin to be rich or that rich people can't go to heaven... if that's what you're trying to claim then you got the message wrong! Is giving a poor man a job helping him or is it better to just give him money? What does the bible say about sloth? Open your eyes!
ofcourse rich goes to heaven...rich creates jobs which feeds many...so money is very very important and those who say money is not important has some one else paying their bills!!!!!!!!! but topic was whether obama is anti christ and so i posted based on how jesus himself lived his entire life and in comparison , obama becomes his number uno follower...and far from being anti christ...yes his test would come on how much he can love Iran as jesus said love your enemies......let us see if that is possible for usa president to love cuba , china , iran , north korea and such stuffs...if not than using christ as methodology for governance is not right thing to do...jesus may be ideal but not great thing to be as far as running a country is...and obama is unfortunately more inclined towards christ than many previous presidents...good for usa and world in long run but he doesnot have much time left...only another six years..
He lives like Christ??? Let's review... thou shal not kill... drones kill innocent civilians in Pakistan every day! Thou shall not steal... he takes other peoples money to give to someone else... thou shall not lie... OMG there's too many to list!!
Oh yeah he's just like Christ!!! Lololol
i didnt say he lives like christ...i said in comparision he is number uno follower of christ as president...bush killed more people...clinton had monica episode...so if you compare obama is number uno follower , no 2 would be clinton ...as far as stealing goes , well we all know what stock market did to usa citizens and how much much did they steal!!!!!!!!!!!!...what obama is doing doesnot make him angel but surely makes him number uno in comparision...
Um, yes, actually he was. Somebody has been listening to the gospel of prosperity for too long. Here's a hint: it has nothing to do with what Jesus actually taught and everything to do with a bunch of TV preachers trying to justify their extravagant lifestyles. Go read the gospels for yourself without somebody hanging over your shoulder telling you what to think. (NOT the Living Bible or the New Living Translation, which are Bowdlerized crap.)
What a foolish notion! So Jesus wanted everyone to live as homeless starving paupers that shared whatever they had with other homeless starving paupers??? You got the message twisted!
"If you would be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
Your wasting your time, so am I actually!
LL seems the sort to twist her religion into whatever it is that supports what she wants to believe, right or wrong. Talking to a wall is likely to provide more stimulating and challenging conversation.
My last reply directed to her was something to the effect that "it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you."
I stand by that. lol
I probably should even get involved, not good for the blood pressure or something I am sure, but I get wound up seeing the same old same old hypocrazy (kinda intentional misspelling there, maybe I can coin a new slang word?)
I know, but it amuses me watching her try to wriggle her way out of facing reality. She's really remarkably adept at it - I wish I could create my own reality so completely...
You ARE creating your own reality! You're totally misinterpeting the bible passages... your interpetations make no sense...and im no bible expert either! Maybe an expert will respond and straighten you out!
Lol yes that makes sense... we'll all be perfect and who will by our posessions then and with what???
I'm sure Jesus will be shocked - shocked! - that you disapprove of His philosophy. He's probably running to His dad right now to talk about some new revelations.
Nice one, good graphics and poignant message.
Matthew 25 34:40
Then the King will say to those at His right hand, Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God and appointed to eternal salvation], inherit (receive as your own) the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you [h]brought Me together with yourselves and welcomed and entertained and lodged Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me with help and ministering care, I was in prison and you came to see Me.
Then the just and upright will answer Him, Lord, when did we see You hungry and gave You food, or thirsty and gave You something to drink?
And when did we see You a stranger and welcomed and entertained You, or naked and clothed You?
And when did we see You sick or in prison and came to visit You?
And the King will reply to them.....
Truly I tell you, in so far as you did it for one of the least [in the estimation of men] of these My brethren, you did it for Me.
Hey Kerry, the quoted scripture only points out the "selfless" action that should be taken. It isn't to be taken literally.
It means to be selfless in action and kind to others. It's nothing about socialism or even politics for that matter, considering politics didn't exist as of yet.
Actually, in that passage Jesus is speaking directly to a rich man who wants to follow him, but doesn't when he finds out he must give everything away to do so. Needless to say, he is not called back. Jesus follows the incident up with the camel through the eye of the needle comment, and this: "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first."
Like I said, it seems pretty clear to me.
From the perspective of the sustainability of such a society, these statements were obviously influenced by Jesus's apocalyptic beliefs, but the sort of people who believe Obama is the Antichrist also have apocalyptic beliefs and I don't see many of them giving up their cushy air-conditioned megachurches and piped-in muzak to truly follow their Lord as He commanded them to.
That's one area where Catholics, inconsistent and problematic as they are, deserve a lot of respect, imho. They have multiple orders of people dedicated to doing exactly that, including some such as Francis of Assisi who were bona fide wealthy men that gave up everything to wander the Earth with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
Hey Kerry, the rest of what you wrote was irrelevant to my statement. This statement above points out precisely what I said.
A rich man choose to be selfish and not selfless. There is a difference. That's what I was talking about.
This has far less to do with money than with attaching one's self to the material things of this world. He offers the idea that a rich man has more difficulty unburdening himself than a poor person. That doesn't sound anti-money but a rather reasonable idea. Jesus' teachings also show the rich man as virtuous, the king as virtuous, the servant who makes money for his master as virtuous. He doesn't teach a collective salvation but a personal, individual one. Why do silly people only read the little bits they want to make their arguments rather than seek to understand the entire thing?
"This has far less to do with money than with attaching one's self to the material things of this world. He offers the idea that a rich man has more difficulty unburdening himself than a poor person."
Um, yes. That's the point. The pursuit of money and material possessions is incompatible with a spiritual life, according to Jesus. I don't know how you expect people to be rich without "pursuing" money, unless they come to it through inheritance and don't ever do anything to increase, preserve, or protect their wealth, but if you figure it out, I'm sure you and Jesus can sit down and renegotiate.
"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also ...
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."
you go kirsten!
various religious orders in the catholic church take vows of poverty,... and these groups have done more to help the poor and down trodden than i can list,....
and before we start catholic bashin, remember who first fed the poor, took in the orphan, and cared for the sick in hospitals, the catholic church. they also created the model for the colledge eduation system that thumbs its noseat rome these days.
the poor can and do help the poor.
the words in red that state its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven does not mean the very state of being rich condemns you to hell,... it means that wealth brings the opportunity for temptation,... such as forgetting your poorer brethren.
Someone strike a cord here? Hit a little too close to the mark for ya
I thought the last thing Jesus wanted was for us to live without knowing the love of God, or does the message change all the time to serve whatever purpose you might have at the time?
SHO can't be Christ because I just prayed for a Ham sandwich and didn't get anything. Could that be because Christ is keeping kosher or because it is Lent?
Wow. His own words. His own actions. That's how I see his own words and his own actions too. Me and LaLo and millions.
We don't want his "fundamental transformation" one bit.
Ah, you're using a popular Glenn Beck technique. He got quite angry when some internet pranksters turned this type of argument around on him a few years back: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/glenn-bec … urder-hoax
Making accusations about people and then hiding behind "I was just asking the question" or "I was just saying that so-and-so said this" makes it possible to accuse anyone of anything. Does Sarah Palin eat babies? Are the Koch brothers harvesting the organs of Mexican boys in an attempt to build an artificial superhuman? Did John McCain and the late Strom Thurmond have a passionate love affair in 1998?
I wasn't making the accusation but there are some that hold that view. In my OP is an hour long radio program on the topic and I thought it would be an interesting question.
So... I have too short an attention span to read a million posts on this topic. Instead of actually reading it I will post a simple question: Has this turned into a pissing contest between the "uneducated right wing population" and the "oh so nice hippie liberals who want everyone to get along" people who are too far in their wing that they can't look at something in a centralist view that might create a bridge rather than attempt to burn a bridge?
I should actually apologize for that comment. If you start something with "Is Obama the Anti-christ" you're bound to poke people in the worst places.
My two cents? I thought the anti-christ could get stuff done. Like I don't know... sway people to believe in him (granted he did that three years ago, but have we seen his popularity as of late [note, this is relatively biased as I don't actually give enough of a rat's ass to get the true popularity relating but instead rely heavily on that given to me by my redneck friends]?).
Woah, I think I just pulled an inception in sub-text there.
I reckon LL didn't get the email today on what she should be posting. So she made up a topic herself.
LOL. As she would say.
i'm picturing christ sitting at his heavenly equivelant to the lap top,... watching his spiritual news thread,.. and falling constantly across conversations like this,... then he slaps himself in the forehead, slams the lap top shut and tells dad to meet him at the pub for a pint cause his head hurts.
i can see god the father putting his arm around the son jesus,... and saying with a small gigle under his breath,... "kids,.. they'll grow up some days my boy"
Wasn't in exodus where it said to work 6 days and rest th 7th? What were they working for?
The message God was conveying is that love of money was sinful that the pursuit of wealth for the sake of being wealthy was wrong... pursuing wealth and using it to do Gods work is to be admired and praised. Many of the wealthies people in this country have signed a pledge giving away all their wealth upon their death... that will help a lot of people!
Last time I checked, Exodus was not one of the 4 Gospels. It's not even in the New Testament. Try again and see if you can quote Jesus directly this time.
"The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows" (I Timothy 6:10)
Timothy, not Jesus, but at least it's NT.
Here's more evidence of how the apostles interpreted Jesus's lessons about money:
"And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need." Acts 4:32–35
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need?
Not at all.
Within the closed community of that church they shared what they had. They were cast off from the larger society. They needed to make an alternate economy for themselves as many lost family and jobs to follow Christ.
Christ advised his followers to give Caesar what belonged to him. He didn't advocate creating a new government.
His Kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD.
Certainly He advocated charity. Which is why the Christian nations happen to be the most charitable in the world.
Early Christian society was probably the most perfect example of pure communism the world has ever seen.
Of course, I'm sure it helped that they believed the world was coming to an end momentarily. But anybody who genuinely believes that Obama is the Antichrist does too, and I don't see many of them giving up all of their possessions and going out into the world as itinerant preachers to teach the Word.
Its one thing to give willingly to the church but that's not the same as having a form of government that takes from you by force to distribute as it sees fit! You'll not find that in the bible.
You are not forced to live here, are you?
If you wish to live where your income is not taxed at all, there are places you can go...follow Cheney to Dubai. Erik Prince escaped to the Arab Emerites...no extradition!!!
But here, in America, we pay taxes.
We paid them with Bush or Reagan and we pay them with Clinton or Obama.
This is the way we govern here.
Why is it suddenly theft? Did Bush steal from you too?
You jumped into the conversation late... I'm not against paying taxes or government for that matter but government should be as small as possible to serve the public as outlined in the constitution...ie to maintain order and security so that we may enjoy the blessings of liberty... in others words keep us free and leave us alone... that's the role of government ... it's function is not to decide what is fair but to treat all equally under the law!
If you feel that way, how can you support the TP? They are anti-choice and anti gay-rights.
That is neither freedom nor equality.
You won't find it in pure communism either. Pure communism is also known as "stateless communism." Marx believed that when the class system was broken down - as happened in early Christian society when rich and poor alike gave up everything they owned to share with the wider community - the state would ultimately cease to exist. Hence my characterization of early Christian society as one of the most perfect examples of pure communism the world has ever seen.
Yes except you are ignoring the parts of the bible that address private property like Job and thou shaky not steal among others... how convenient!
Because we're talking about Jesus and those are in Job and Exodus respectively, but hey, if you can show me where I have ever once in this thread argued that being Christian means going around and stealing other people's private property, I'll be interested to see that.
All I've done is point out that early Christian society and pure communism have an awful lot in common in that both are stateless societies dependent on voluntary sharing of common resources. Sorry if that's stolen your comfortable worldview, but I'm sure you'll recover soon enough.
I don't think it will help as many people as you think. The Bill Gates fund is used to help needy people in Africa and also help inner city kids. I often time wonder how $10 billion dollars of donated money is not doing a bigger difference. Some one may have a new car parked in storage some where else.
It's Judeo Christian values that lift man up in the west. It seems in other parts of the world life has no value. The strongest prevail and take everything away from the weak. Imagine Gaddawfli over there with a multi billion dollar stash laying around.
Obama must be so jealous. He sort of has to account for his.
Ahhhhhh, there it is. THAT'S what I've been waiting for!!
Chris Matthews said they would use the Libyan situation to smear Obama....and there you go.
How many other right-wing web-sites and talk-radio haters and Foxers are spewing this one?
There was a book written years back called "Blowback"---you haters are in for yours, in case you haven't already noticed.
Check out Wisconsin saturday.....
That will tell you all you need to know. Right-Wing rule is over.
Corporations don't win, because.....maybe we ARE more a Christian nation than I realized.
Christ, the man. Not the organized religion.
Right wing rule is over?
Um, I hate to break it to you, but it was Obama's chief dogwasher who said he would be "ready to rule on day one".
Not lead....rule....that's how the Community Organizer sees himself.....
Poor Barack will have to take a number and stand in line with other anti's, some of which reside here on HP, according to many. And they will all have to take a number behind Charley Sheen, who apparently has priority in blitzing the news of late.
Poor Japan is losing attention with it's quake woes due to such important issues as these.
Oh come on Greek One, we all know that its really you. You really shouldn't be so modest about it, and you will get a really warm reception in the religion forum when you out yourself!
some people r way to serious!!! If he was we would of seen more signs, beck isn't either. The anit-crist is justin beiber!!!
What do you mean... I wasn't the one that went off topic!
LaLo: The topic is is not worth discussion, If not for an attempt to reform you the thread was without substance. I learn something even if you didn't learn anything.
No, I don't think Obama's the "Antichrist", especially since I don't see that as one single individual.
But he does exhibit a similar mindset and worldview, espouses anti-Christ views and behavior. But again, he is only one of many....as was foretold in the Bible.
He's a pretty good (bad) precursor.
Always interesting to me that he looks like a clone of Pharaoh Akhenaten.
Sister Brenda, I challenged you on another forum post to point out the Scrupture to support you assertion that Obama's views are "anti-Christian." Again, I am pretty knowledgeable of the Scriptures. Still waiting..... And please be specific; kind of anxious to tear apart your response. I studied the original Greek they were written in - another one of those "liberal elite" pesky deals some flat-line Evangelicals really hate.
PS - it's on of the pesky liberal tendencies Brenda to ask for facts to support wild assertions...
Sorry, but I don't recall seeing another forum post where you ask me to give specifics.
But they're not "wild assertions".
haha well "pesky liberal tendencies"......?........
I find that most liberals who ask me to give specifics are simply waiting to attack me after I give 'em! But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Anybody who's been listening to the O's speeches and watching what he does can readily see his anti-Christian behavior and words.
From his podium, to all of America and the world, he has said his intent is to fundamentally change America's basis.
Well, American's basis, our laws, our stances, was and is a Christian one. Christianity (ergo Christ Himself) went about preaching repentance, which brings the possibility of forgiveness being had. Our laws are based on Biblical principles. Even our bankruptcy laws are based on Biblical principles. I can even find Scriptures for that. Slavery was an American error and calamity, but indeed America righted those wrongs. Many people want to continue to debate those points further, but I will not again.
From his place of fame, having the ear of the American people, Obama has touted socialism and has neglected to show appreciation for the Country which has provided him the opportunity to even BE President.
He preaches gay "rights", a principle that's most definitely against Biblical principles. He even scolded America from a CHURCH pulpit about that issue. Hmmph! I would've had him thrown out of that church if it were up to me. But indeed a lot of people, even those who definitely should know better, are apparently still swayed by his image. He might as well join Rick Warren's Saddleback (I call it Straddleback) Church, 'cause Warren is about as liberal as Obama is; neither will take the right stance. Obama's excuse is probably 'cause he owes the Leftist agenda something, who knows.....Warren's excuse-I've no idea except that he's apparently a fallen person.
Obama's further action of repealing DADT is very telling.
Obama preaches for killing the unborn! Some will say he hasn't taken a direct stance on that. But from his podium he has, even since before the Election, spouted that he "wouldn't want" his daughters "punished with a baby" if they were facing an unplanned pregnancy. He also said the abortion issue is "above" his "pay grade". So, with the power that he has, with the sway that he has over people, his middle-of-the-road wishy-washy stance on that is the SAME as if he outright said he's in favor of killing unborn children.
Those are two major things that are totally unBiblical, and therefore anti-Christ, since the Bible IS the story of Christ and is the Holy word of God (Jesus being the Word in the flesh).
When he said in a speech that America is "no longer just a Christian nation", he was playing devil's advocate on a huge political scale, and that's totally anti-Christian.
When he refused to even mention the name of Jesus Christ for the longest time....(at least I never heard him give Christ any glory, nor even mention Him til recently, and that was obviously a political ploy).....we can thereby tell that he's not a Christian. Plus other reasons, incidents, that I don't think I have to mention again, because they've been played-out in video time after time for all the USA and the world to see and hear. He has made a point of opposing the teachings of the Bible.
I will go further and say that a liberal who says they're Christian cannot remain a Christian, and vise-versa a Christian will not remain a liberal if they know the Scriptures on this subject, as they should know...
If you are, as you say, "pretty knowledgeable of the Scriptures", then you can easily find the connections I've pointed out here, or surely you already have? and just wish to defy Scripture??
Brenda, you didn't answer the question. While you did give your personal opinion, you didn't answer the fundamental - what are the specific Scriptures that Obama violates? So again, what are the Scriptures you are basing your statement upon? And Christ's actual words/citations - not those of St Paul, etc. You better get your condordance out, but I will save you a little time - you won't find much if anything. Now the only thing you and other very narrow-minded and poorly educated so-called Christians manage to come up with is this amorphous term "socialism." And again, you have no idea of what that is either. So bring up the Scripture where Christ's own words refute anything that Obama has said or any policy he has supported. Remember it's a New Testament, a new covenant. But if you want to pull in the Old Testament, let's look at the admonition against usury - that would kind of blow the whole idea of banking in the US, the world as being "anti-God." But I will cut you a break on that one - don't want to overload you, and we are strictly sticking to the New Testament because in your own words, Obama's actions and words are "anti-Christ" like. And I wonder how you would handle a Jewish president? I mean being a jew, the president would be a member of the "chosen people of God," but would not recognize Christ as the Messiah - as anything for that matter. So are Jews, based on your "anti-Christian" criteria "off limits" to serve in public office Brenda????
The "gay" issue really isn't going to fly because you won't find anything, in Christ's words, that even mentions it. As a matter of fact, even if you go to the Old Testament admonition against homosexuality you will find that, in the original Hebrew (that's the language it was written in by the way) the homosexual act ONLY applies, in the Hebrew term, to male/male sexual conduct - not female/female. Not that you ever would because it's not in your character, apparently, to dig deep into anything, but check with a Rabbi or even a true Hebrew translation of the Old Testament.
So again Brenda, you are like most Evangelicals - really short on real knowledge and long on opinion and quick to brand something "anti-Christ like" when you don't even have an understanding of your own religion - at least as evidenced by your child-like responses. But prove me wrong - you can't - at least with facts and Scripture. Of course you are allowed your opinion, but qualify it as just that - opinion. And don't hide behind a Bible, New Testament Scripture that you clearly don't understand on anything more than a Sunday school level.
In other words, I can say water isn't wet, but I would be hard-pressed to prove it...
I'm not even gonna humor your attempt to wrongly divide the Word!
The entire Holy Bible is God's word, not just specifically the things Jesus said. You cannot rightly leave out Paul's writings, nor Peter's, nor Jude's, nor even the writings in the Old Testament.
You're grasping at straws. There's no use debating with you when you're gonna try to play games. So, sorry, but your knowledge seems to be useless to you in understanding the word of God.
God (Christ) knows us humans aren't idiots. So why do you try to act like people are? Does Jesus have to spell it out for you in specific terms like the Father did on the stone tablets?
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not commit homosexual abomination (That one actually IS spelled out specifically in Deuteronomy). But alas! You only see what you wish to see that might fit your "modern" agenda....
Whatever! Someone like you with so much "knowledge" can figure it out without me preachin' the same old truths over and over and over. If you really want the truth, that is. I'm inclined to doubt that you do.
But that doesn't say that homosexuality is an abomination, only that you should not commit abominations, and doesn't that equally apply to heterosexual abominations?
Deuteronomy specifically says it's an abomination, unlike God's assessment of some other sins. Ask DTR0005. I'm sure he (or she?), has a concordance just as I do.
But be careful. DTR0005 seems to wanna play with the Greek interpretations, which will only add to your confusion, when in fact the Bible is very simple to read.
And, I'm pretty positive no one could possibly know what a god's will truly is. Especially, from a fallible book such as the bible, which was written by man so as to control the masses.
Nothing in the bible was inspired by a god to begin with. How can that be? Simple- if a god truly did exist, then it would have the foresight and knowledge, and wisdom to know that any human being cannot fight against their own nature and making them to fight against themselves is only a destructive path. Sorry, common-sense rules out any god.
You seem to imply that the bible was written in English! I find neither Greek or Hebrew very simple to read!
Don't forget that the whole cult of the virgin Mary is based on a mis-translation of the word for young woman!
Apparently the whole cult of the virgin Mary is the brainchild of the Catholic Church. That, and the system of having "Mother nuns" etc., is most likely a bone that got thrown to the women in the Church so they'd let the Priesthood retain power.
At least that's the conclusion one can draw from it.
But please elaborate on what you said. Who mistranslated the word?
And I hope you aren't thinking I'm Catholic. I'm just simply a Christian. One who finds the Bible easy to interpret and doesn't understand why others don't.
I am not playing with any interpretation - I am going back to the original language the New Testament was written in - The English version is the "interpreted version" - not the Greek. So you wanna play? Deuteronomy was written in ancient Hebrew originally - not Greek. But we can "go there" if you really want - the Books of Acts, Hebrews, Revelations, James, Peter, John, or Jude make no mention of homosexuality. Paul's letters make no specific mention either. It is only in Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:8–11 that there may be references to possible homosexuality. The actual Greek word used in ALL of these passages that English Bibles have construed to indicate "homosexuals" is "malakoi" or "malakos" in the plural.
Here's the kicker Brenda - this term in Greek means "soft," "pliable," "spiritually weak," or effeminate. It doesn't mean homosexual specifically. So it may be "parsing up the word of God" but again, looking at what it actually said in the original language is important - if you want to have any real understanding of what the Scripture says.
You can buy into Obama's touting of the modern agenda to call wrong right and right wrong if you wish, but I'm not buying it. And no Bible-believing Christian would.
I assume by bible you refer to the King James version, translated into English 1607-1611 to reflect the structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy!
Puritans were very well represented amongst the translators.
Not only that!!:
One area of the life of King James that for many years remained clouded in controversy was allegations that James was homosexual. Few modern historians cast any doubt on the King's bisexuality and the fact that his sexuality and choice of male partners both as King of Scotland then later in London as King of England were the subject of gossip from the city taverns to the Privy Council. His relationship as a teenager with fellow teenager Esmé Stuart, Earl of Lennox was criticized by Scottish Church leaders, who were part of a conspiracy to keep the young King and the young French courtier apart, as the relationship was improper to say the least. Lennox, facing threats of death, was forced to leave Scotland.
In the 1580s, King James openly kissed Francis Stewart Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell. Contemporary sources clearly hinted their relationship was a sexual one. When James inherited the English throne from Queen Elizabeth I in 1603, it was openly joked of the new English monarch in London that “Elizabeth was King: now James is Queen!” If there is still any doubt, it should be noted that George Villiers, also held an intimate relationship with King James, about which King James himself was quite open. King James called Villiers his “wife” and called himself Villiers' “husband”!
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli … james.html
Ah, to such lengths the Left's agenda has driven society to try to discredit the Laws of God. It would be boring if it weren't so insidious.
I don't why, anyone would claim to be a devout Christian, maybe to get into office because no Muslim or atheist ever will?
It’s refreshing to speak kind and respectful words to the Muslim for a change, who knows, it may bring true love, kindness and a friendlier world, Together - OH Mine!
Well Brenda, you've been HAD... you couldn't quote any scripture against Obama's agenda and you couldn't disprove anything I wrote because you don't know your Bible quite as well as you thought you did.
See I never mix politics and religion - that's the Right's gig and not mine. But if you are going to make bold statements be prepared to come up with bold facts. You picked the Bible as your justification - not me.
I didn't say I couldn't quote any Scriptures for that. I just decided not to.
I said I wasn't gonna do your work for you.
Read the Word yourself. That's all I'm telling you.
There used to be a magazine in the 80's called Omni...anyone read it? it was real cool--science fiction, technology and such. Published by Guccione.
Anyway--there was an article in there once that said only females could sweat blood.
Is that what happened? In the Garden of Gethsemane???
Anyway--took an Art History Class...and low and behold, Jesus looks mighty female in the classic Last Supper painting.
John, being "the one whom Jesus loved"....
These things have always puzzled me.I used to wonder, was Jesus gay? Or maybe Jesus was female, and they could never never never have that!
Female Messiah......heaven forfend!
Wrong language for Deuteronomy Church Lady loll
I concede my mistake on which Scripture that is. Sorry. It's Leviticus 18: 22. But no concession on the meaning, for that is crystal clear.
"Church Lady"? LOL
Isn't she supposed to be the epitome of perfect behavior including meekness? Which I'm not. But okay.
You know Brenda, I am not the one WHO MADE THE ACCUSATION that the President was "anti-Christ" like - YOU WERE! If you are anti-Christ like then you are AGAINST the teachings of Christ. You made the bold statement and I asked you to back it up with actual Scripture, the words of Christ - and you cannot. I am not asking anyone to parcel up the word of God, but there are two different Testaments and they are very different. Christ is only in one Brenda.
I am not the one who believes themselves to KNOW THE MIND OF GOD AND CHRIST - I can only go on what was written. But apparently you have some special knowledge of the mind of God and Jesus - at least enough to say that an ordinary man is "anti-Christ" like in his beliefs and policies.
I for one am not capable of looking inside any man's heart and judge him to be "Christ-like" or otherwise. You aren't either. The truth is in the Word Brenda - the Word, not your word or my word, but what was written.
And since Jesus was God incarnate, yes - if God felt the Law was important enough to write it down in stone then maybe we should take Christ's own words for what they are, the law of the new Covenant, the "New Law," and try not to read "polictics" into them... Paul was all about politics and a distinct dislike for women - Christ never uttered a peep.
Christ IS God.
Read the first chapter of John.
And remember God is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Why do you confuse even yourself? That I do not understand. Any adult and even some children can draw the right conclusion by reading the Bible in the basic simplicity it exhibits if they just start with those basic facts. Start with the milk of the Word before ya try to swallow the meat.
So in one post you say that God is never changing. And in the next you say that Jeus "Spiritualized the Law" which is changing the punishment. Which is it Sister Brenda?
Forget about what some Rabbi told you. Read the Bible yourself. Study it. Seriously. It's that easy.
Uh it started out being THEIR book - it still is if you believe the word of God - remember the "chosen people deal." So I am guessing since it's actually the Jews' book written in their langauge, it might not hurt to ask WHAT IS ACTUALLY SAYS IN HEBREW!
Yep Obama is the anti-christ, a muslim, not an American citizen, hates whites and is deliberately trying to destroy America.
Or is it just that he is educated, articulate and black that worries the loonies?
I think you're wrong on that one. Jesus said throw out Moses' Laws, the New Covenant is written on your heart!
That's why he helped that man on the Sabbath....he was showing people that this was a NEW way of relating with God....in your heart. NOT the law!
Find the inner man of God, don't keep pumping up the public image.
Why do you and some others insist on leaving out that thing called conscience? As well as leaving out the actual words of the Bible!
Jesus didn't "throw out" the old Law at all. He simply Spiritualized it, basically. The punishment for breaking the Law is no longer literal, it's Spiritual. Long ago, breaking the Law meant ya got stoned to death or hanged or some such punishment. Which is what we ALL still deserve when we break God's Laws! But Jesus came to offer us the personal choice to basically choose our own consequences. You break the Law and don't repent, then you'll burn in hell. But if you repent and try to follow Christ, you have the blessing of knowing you're a child of His here on earth, and after you die---you get to dwell in Heaven with Him. It's that simple.
And to DTR0005---
Yes the Bible DOES say lesbian sex is just as bad as male homosexuality. I dare you to find that Scripture for yourself. Hint: look up "woman" and/or "women"...and it's actually in the New Testament not just the Old. Why should I do the legwork for you while you try to twist things around? Not on my agenda today.
No actually it does not - not my words, no even my opinion, but it does NOT! I am not twisting anything. This is the actual Hebrew - This is in reference to Levitcus 20:13
Technically, "man" can indeed refer to "mankind." However, in the context of this verse it is clear that it is talking about a "male." The word "ishah"--woman--used later in the verse implies that the "ish"--man--mentioned earlier is male, the opposite of the female.
Brenda, you obviously don't realize that not everything translates, subtle meanings, from one language to the next - that is where we get the "expression" lost in translation.
Now this isn't my interpetation, this is from a Biblical Hebrew scholar, a rabbi from the chabad.org. This is anything but a liberal think-tank. But I am certain, since this man is a life-long student of Hebrew and Judism, his is just a "twister fo words..."
So sorry sister, the Hebrew it was originally written in refers to "man" not "women."
Yes, and they were always testing Jesus, to see if he would break "the law", so they could prove he was not the Messiah....
He broke the law, to show there was a new way.
When they were going to stone that adulteress, he didn't say "Don't stone her, but you can still judge her", he said "Which one of YOU is without sin?" IE: You are no better!!!
It's not only dropping the punishment, it's dropping the judgement and the hate.
And THAT is where pisean is right on the money!
Obama does not show hate or judgement towards anyone,that I can see.
He does not glorify in these wars, doesn't have that "Kill em Kill em" mentality that so many of the "outward" Christians do!!
And he has spoken up for the poor and underpriviledged...not spat on them.
Oh yeah, as far as walking the walk...Obama has got them all beat.
ESPECIALLY those hypocrits who preach against things for votes, but support them behind the scenes.....MIKE PENCE!
About 78% Christian can't be all wrong at the voting booth.
Too late! The anti Christ is already set for judgment day, 2012
Check out what Edgar Cayce said: Japan quake...he predicted it. West Coast he predicted will be gone:
I am not buying it again, In my life time I have been told the world will end a few times and it didn’t. It was the same story for my father, before that, his father. Now take that back for many centuries.
My personally mystic feeling about Jesus is kindness and loving, the ultimate connection of our World.
It’s just the fear and the translations are wrong among the 2000 disagreeable versions of the bible
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