Who Pays Right Wing Posters to Attack Barack Obama?
Just wondering. I'd like some extra money for a Mediterranean cruise.
Lol! Obama's such an incompetent millions would do it for free! Doesn't anyone see why people are so opposed to him? The government is 25% bigger since he took office... who's going to pay for that? You and me! Getting rid of Obama and the democrats means more jobs less tax smaller government ... whose interest isn't served by that? Who doesn't profit from that? Well besides the unions and basically government workers everbody else! You don't have to pay me i'll collect in spades when we rid the government of this scum!
You can't just be doing this because you are driven can you Lady? No one is that fanatical are they?
You have a one man crusade against banks, capitalism, and think oil is bad and you call me fanatical?? Lol!
...nice point lady...but remember he had said he wants to change usa fundamentally and people voted for him...so now he is doing what he promised...Yes I do. But they are based on my own research and observation and not on talking points that are a form of metaprogramming.
Me too, and I will attack anyone for the right amount of cash.
I'm Mercenary that way.
That does raise an interesting notion though, It seems there are at least two political operatives that appear to work the forums on this site heavily.You should sell tomatoes at Obama's next rally. You'll be rich!
well shoes would have made him more richer during bush era...but that chance is missed now...let us wait for 2016 and then we would have shoe throwing era back...may be...
Yeah, either that or we will be giving the next looser the Nobel Prize for doing nothing.
oh...that prize would have been given to any one after bush...nobel guys thought any one who becomes president of usa after bush would be any how be more peaceful...it was more of token of appreciation and relief world got as bush went...i guess if mccain would have won , he would have got that prize too...
I don't agree with a lot of Presidents Obama's . but he is our president and we should pray for him, not distract him and show him hate.
Asking that the Nobel Prize be given to somone who deserves it is not hatred. I simply wish that our presidents be given a gold star for accomplishment instead of good intentions. But that's not the direction our country is headed. All the kids in the class should get a gold star for accomplishing nothing, afterall it's only fair.
There was an ad on Craigslist that was recruiting. It was removed shortly after it was put up. I will bet this company has employed or does employ some people who post here.
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Date: 2011-03-28, 1:03PM EDT
Reply to: job-f922t-2291333753@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Writers Needed to post Right-wing Comments to social media and news outlets
We are a social media company working for a political organization, hired to help balance the left-wing bias of the major media outlets by supplying a team of writers who will post to newspaper comments, media forums, FB pages, etc. We are NOT officially afiliated with Harper campaign
You writing must be strong, right-wing and use supplied talking points without bogging down in too much detail. You are creating an online persona with a consistent tone. Ideally you can find or make up facts and statistics to stir controversy. Where suited humour, sarcasm and personal insults are welcome.
You are a news junky who is able to log on to news forums, facebook pages several times a day. You are able to write comments tailored to new topics while always repeating key talking points.
Compensation: TBD. hourly rate and volume of online activity. Bonuses for controversial postings that heat up a topic or forum thread.
How to apply: We are more interested in your writing than your resume. To apply submit a 100 word post based on the headline "Ignatieff Promises No Coalition after Election" Show us that you can write from a right wing character voice, score points, stir outrage and use humour.
Be sure to include your name, email and cell number so we can contact you.
Sorry, only candidates who submit the best test post submissions will be contacted for an interview.
Location: National
Compensation: TBD. hourly rate and volume of online activity. Bonuses for controversial postings that heat up a topic or forum thread.
This is a part-time job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2291333753"Make up facts when necessary."
That really does sum Republicans up.Oh really? Did you answer the ad? Do you know WHO placed it? What's the basis for your speculation?
It sounds like satire to me. I would think the first rule of astroturfing would be never talk about astroturfing.
Oh dang! If you see the ad again could you let me know?
I hav vey stong righting sckills and a dam good attidude.
Don't know, but as long as they pay better than adsensm I'm in.
In that case, here's a "How To"
http://exchange.ydr.com/index.php?showtopic=10184
Americans for Prosperity, Freedomworks, and TeaPartyNation.com pay bloggers to "control the online dialogue." Ask Lalo - she's one. Those orgs will train you on how to and pay a little, but the only ones who pay a living wage are actual PR firms, which nearly every GOP PAC has, Congressional staffers, corps like Koch Industries, etc. You'd have to get into a PR firm in order to get legitimately paid. You'd have to get quite a bit better though. Your argument are a bit lacking.
"Who Pays Right Wing Posters to Attack Barack Obama?"
Is that a paranoid statement or does a chicken have lips?Well obviously there are chickens with lips! If I'm not mistaken--and please don't quote me on this--their lips cover their McNuggets!
Alright. Okay. I pay the right wingers to attack Obama on Hubpages. I can't help it. That's why they call it a vast right wing conspiracy. And believe me, once you're in, you're in it for life. Like a gang. Well, okay. I don't pay them myself. The money is funneled to me and I distribute it. That reminds me, have you all responded to that Nigerian email sitting in your junk box yet? Go ahead. Its the patriotic thing to do. Anyway, I pay the right wing bloggers. All of them. Each and every one. And I pay them well. Oh yeah. I pay them each half of what Google Adsense pays. I'm talking big bucks. (I'm hiring, by the way.) So there is your answer. You found me out.
By the way, for cruises, you really can't beat Alaska. ANWAR is beautiful this time of year.Who pays left wingers to attack Sarah Palin?
Sarah doesn't need anyone to attack her, she is perfectly capable of doing that herself.
obama is the President. Presidents are always 'attacked.' It's part of the job. Palin holds no public office at all, yet the far left cannot stop obsessing over her. Imagine how viscious the attacks would be if a Latino or African American rose to real political prominence and was considered a strong contender for the Presidency. Liberals like to use race, gender, etc. as a weaponl but it has always been about the politics.
Where are all the jobs the newly elected Republi-cons campaigned on? Oh, I see, they're sitting on them until after 2012.
How pro-American of them!!!Politicians don't create jobs.
They clear the path so business owners can do that.
The path seems to still be obstructed with democrats.They're too busy slashing jobs and sending more Americans to the unemployment lines and foreclosures.
Look at any state with a Koch brothers 'paid-for' newly elected governor.no jobs will be created as long as President Obama and the democrats are in power. by the way do you know why the democrats did not pass a 2011 budget last fiscal year? first time in history! which is why we are fighting the democrats budget battle in a republican congress!
Lol! Well said and good question! The democrats wanted this battle because they are afraid to do what's good for this country because that might mean they would have to be responsible for cuts to the people that elect them!
That are evil cowardly scum!
@ts i also suspect that some hubbers out here are being paid to defame obama...i mean even sarah palin has not been critical , day in day out for obama...none can be so biased unless they are on pay roll and doing their job...
Imagine how pissed their day job employers will be when they figure out how their employees are spending their so-called "workday." They pay them to be productive. Instead, they're on here being destructive.
but if one is paid to be destructive , one is doing the job...daily around 10 topics which are anti obama are started on hubpages...m sure there would be many more sites where such topics would have been started...so they are doing their job by starting such thread and spreading their hatred and trying to influence opinion....
First of all nobody is defaming President Obama. Secondly, I am making my comments about the President because i disagree with his entire political ideology. I also make these comments on my own computer and on my own time. All Presidents are subject to criticism and praise; so if he cannot be criticized, maybe he should resign. Also i am a naturalized Nigerian from West Africa................. I guess that makes me an Uncle Tom?
i pay for some of them myself, nothing is more amusing than watching "American conservatives" become indignant........although the fact that they are serious makes it sad, a tragi-comedy
I'd say the conservatives at this forum and most others I've seen have far better humor than liberals! Have you looked at DemocraticUnderground??
You're not reading the posts if you think liberals have humor. They call conservatives names and try to shut them up.
Conservatives tease and poke fun at liberals around here and they explode like beehives with buzzing clouds of anger every time.
Well except Mighty Mom, she's got a great sense of humor.
- BunuBobuposted 13 years ago
0I was wondering the same thing.
Why is there so much Obama bashing?
No matter how bad he may be, he will never really be as bad as Bush who miraculously got two terms."he will never really be as bad as Bush who miraculously got two terms."
'Miraculously?' So, are you sayingn the Bush presidency was the will of God?
Why are there so many anti-Obama threads started every day? Perhaps because he is an incompetent President who is in over his head and whose policies will make our nation weaker?
By the same token, why aren't there more pro-Obama threads started each day? If the guy is as great as the left claims, it shouldn't be too hard to tout his accomplishments, right?To be honest, how many positive politics threads do you see on Hubpages forums anyway? People aren't interested in talking about what's done right. It's like this for Obama and it's been like this for every other politician throughout history. The good things largely go ignored during their term, because it's not an interesting talking point.
As the little 'cluck' of assiduous anti-Obama posters are so clearly paid to litter the forums - shouldn't HP treat them as spammers ??
That is a strong accusation, pal. I guess asking you to back it up would be going too far, right?
However I do believe that Obama is thin skinned enough that I can totally see him spending government funds to try and chase down posters on lil ol' Hubpages.....
New Media Strategies might be a good starting point, but they got caught, so the Koch brothers have probably moved on. Someone there might be able to point you in the right direction, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Media_Strategies
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/09/koc … ck-puppet/
If you're good with voices, Premiere Radio Networks hires actors to call in to Limbaugh and Hannity's shows.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Limb … 5-942.htmlI doubt anyone is paid. The Right has leapt at the opportunity to radicalize their base after the 2008 election and this is the result. The hatred an vitriol against Obama is unprecedented, but only because of the bad economy Bush left him which allows them to work against the president. It was never like this during the Clinton admin because the economy was booming.
However, I cannot explain how so many ultra-Right wingers ended up on one apolitical forum.The right didn't "radicalize" it's base, Americans are reacting to the far left policies of president Obama and.his bullying tactics to pass socialist unconstitutional legislation through congress over the objection of the American people.
Reacting by becoming more radical. How do you explain all of the Right wing conspiracy theories popping up all over the place?
Right wing commentators are increasing in popularity. Glenn Beck even got his own Show! Bill O'Reilly is considered by many to be too far left so they are turning to more radical pundits like Hannity, Rush, and Beck.
I hear the word "Socialist" and even "Communist" all the time from people like yourself who are parroting these commentators despite not actually knowing what those words mean.Politics is a pendulum and the country was pulled far to the left naturally the swing back to the right will equal the pull to the left.
I know precisely what socialist and communit mean and I believe I've provided evidence to support my view that Obama is socialist and the democrats are too co opted by the communist party. You can choose to disagree and even find evidence to support your view but you wont change my mind! They are the ones that want more government and I don't trust government they are the ones that want to redistribute wealth confiscate private property and hand it to their voters. You can call it what you want but we all KNOW where they're headed and Americans.don't want anything to do with it!Obama a socialst!!
Lady, you wouldn't know socialism if it jumped up and bit you!That's what all you socialists say to hide your true intent.
Well, if you think Obama is a socialist then you know little or nothing and understand even less.
I guess you have not read his books because if you did you would be a fool to say he is not a anti-colonialist/socialist! again placing foot in mouth with using brain. not good John. I'm a democrat and see through him and the people he surrounds himself with.
OK, you say Obama is a socialist!
Why hasn't he pulled out of the numerous wars the US is engaged in?
Why is he sucking up to big business?
Why didn't he introduce socialist health care?
Why hasn't he closed Gitmo?
Why, in fact has he done not one socialist thing in his term in power?Why? Because he is being stopped. If, as Woody Allen voiced for the left, he could be dictator he would get a lot accomplished. He has not hidden his agenda, it is a socialist agenda.
Add to that simple reality. Reality trumps the expected Obama miracles.Please elaborate on the Socialist agenda. What do you call actual socialists out of curiosity?
Also, do you think socialist governments are evil?So you're saying that the President has absolutely no power and is no more than a figure head!
Doesn't that rather clash with your claims that Obama is single handedly bringing the US to its knees?
PS, the Woody Allen thing was a joke, there is no room in the left for dictators!
Why hasn't he pulled out of the numerous wars the US is engaged in?**** Because he is incompetent.
Why is he sucking up to big business?**** Campaign funds.
Why didn't he introduce socialist health care?**** Because Americans are smarter than errrrrr.
Why hasn't he closed Gitmo?**** Because he said he would and he is a liar.Yeah, why do people insist that he is a socialist?
Because the Koch Brothers via FoxNews say he is. Pretty simple really...
Just look what he's done taken over health care with an unconstitutional law taken over student loans the banks car companies and us using the federal bureaucrat to go around congress to regulate carbon and free speech. Like most socialists in America he can't come out and admit he is and he can't be too obvious but he's definitely socialist.
But there is nothing socialist with what he's done with health care!
Likewise, with the auto industry, has he taken it into public ownership or just propped up the status quo?
Of course he can't come out and admit he's a socialist because he isn't!!Yes the car companies are partially owned by the government. Health care too is controlled by the government they are told what they must do with any profit. The system has been set up to fail so that government can step in. He's also doing this in the mortage market restricting how mortgage brokers can be paid. Clearly Obama's "fundamental transformation" of America is a move away from capitalism towards statism.
Its on the way to socialism. In my view Obama is a socialist, believes in socialism, and would like to turn America into a socialist state... but it has to be done in steps. If it was JUST Obama it wouldn't be so bad but it's the entire democrat party.
Well, that's a start, it's now your view that Obama is a socialist, much better than insisting that he is.
But believe me, he isn't a socialist.Well that's your view not a fact. In any case Obama has proven to be bad for America.
No, it's not my view, it's an understanding of what socialism is and a look at where Obama fits into the idea of socialism.
Because he is.
Now excuse me while I leave to participate in capitalism.
I work I get paid, I pay the water,electric,gas.
They pay their employees and they pay their bills and the cycle continues.Wow! I work and pay bills also! Does that make me a republican? Pleaseeee NOOOOOOOO! I never realized those from the left didn't do all of those things, Jim. I think I see your problem now.
Yeah, didn't you realise Randy, we on the left are all excused work and paying bills, we live tax free and get everything given to us by munificent corporate businesses.
Even if they do work, it's not REAL job, and they are not REAL Americans!!
The REAL Americans want their country back from us Body-Snatchers!!!
Bwahahahahaha
You aren't participating in capitalism Jim, you're just a wage slave!
Until you get hurt, have no insurance, lose your job, can't pay your bills, and end up on the street, because you don't qualify for SS.
Gee, sucks to be you in Capitalism-Land!
Wait, are you saying he should be a "colonialist"? Isn't that exactly the opposite of what the US was founded upon?
Yes, his father was an anti-colonialist, read the book Obama lover! you are now going to debunk Obamas own words? read the dam books then talk. he surrounds himself with known socialist, he says it in his books and he went to reverend wright church for 20 years preaching black liberation theology! if your head is so far in the sand I'm sorry you can not be helped.
John do you think anyone in there right mind will just do everything right away? are you that blind and ignorant or just playing dumb? again if you spent some time reading his books and looking at his associations you should come up with a realization that leopards do not change their spots!Am I just playing dumb, I don't think so but I do know the correct spelling of "their"
I know how much you hate Obama but that doesn't make him a socialist.
I surround myself with women but that doesn't make me a woman.yeah great analogy! again if you can not comprehend reading his own books and common sense who all his associations are with then you my friend need to help yourself. you surrounding yourself with women means you like women, not that you are a woman(maybe secretly you do want to be one?) either way you like that company and why you surround yourself! thanks for answering your own question.
But if the women you lie with have clap you're probably going to get it too whether you want it or not.
Being anti-colonialist is a good thing. the founding fathers are some of the most prominent anti-colonialists in history. That's why we fought the revolutionary war. That's what the entire declaration of independence is about.
How can you call someone anti-American if you support colonialism?
Perhaps you are confused...LMAO it is called ANTI- colonialism! not colonialism! OMG.
Right, and Obama is anti-colonial, just like the United States and literally every other developed country. I'm an anti-colonialist. My country was founded by a group of anti-colonialists who started an anti-colonial rebellion and became the world's only anti-colonial superpower.
Anti-imperialism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anti-imperialism, strictly speaking, is a term that may be applied to a movement opposed to any form of colonialism or imperialism. Anti-imperialism includes opposition to wars of conquest, particularly of non-contiguous territory or people with a different language or culture; it also includes people opposing the expansion of a country beyond earlier borders.
are they reliable?? or will you debunk them too??So what are you saying? That the country which was founded on a hatred of colonialism should put aside that hatred and colonise, colonise and colonise?
"Right wing commentators are increasing in popularity."
When have they not been popular?
Rush Limbaugh has had a National radio show for 23 years.
Beck has been Nationwide for 9 years.
Hannity has been on since September 10 2001.
This is not exactly a new phenomenon.
New would be a liberal talk show that lasts longer than the milk in your refrigerator.
Ralph, Perhaps some aren't familiar with the Koch's agenda.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 … fact_mayer
OMG you think it is possible that there are posters in forums that actually work for either of the parties?
I would have never thought that possible, in fact I had a hub unpublished that was a fictional story of a person hired to post in forums.
Now here we have a whole thread on the subject, hmmmm?
I wonder if my hub was unjustly unpublished?Nope. And I really doubt that Hubpages would be complicit in such a scheme. Firstly, they are based out of San Fransisco, so demographically speaking, they would be likely to support liberal PACs, but of course, being a business they always support business interests.
However, the nature of internet media at this stage is vastly different than television media. We are very active and interact with our media, where as television is a one-way flow of information. This interactivity means that opinion and reputation matter alot.
I don't think HP would risk their consumer base by becoming biased. However, the fact that your story got censored might say
something.
Traditionally speaking, this country is even further right than it started out. A socialist world would look vastly different from what we have today.
As your reference to 'socialist' writings in his books, I think one book of his might genuinely be qualified as such. "Change We Can Believe In"
However, CWCBI was written during the primaries to decide who would represent the democratic base. All politicians seem further left or right, during the primaries, and move more towards the center as the election comes to a close.
As for PACs paying folks to post negative comments, it is actually happening. I was offered a job by a Tea Party lobby here in Atlanta GA to do the same. I turned down the job, not out of some sort of moral restraint or care, but mostly because I was going to school at the time, and had the Post-9/11 GI Bill to cover my expenses.
Plus, in the end, I don't feel that the tea party lobby and PAC groups would be large enough to content with the vast amount of corporate control and lobby. The Corporations control what we watch on television to suit their particular brand of two-party conflict.
So why would they stay away from the Internet? As the new media emerges, they want to struggle to grasp onto it.As a last point, you can look at the evolution of Youtube. Originally the corporate channels where there, but they had little idea how to make their content popular. They hired optimizers who made their content stand out, and then paid off Youtube to move the 'most watched' and 'highest rated' categories to the back of the line.
Now? You have to dig to find both categories, and the front page is full of corporate stuff, and anything viral enough to have garnered some amount of cross-media attention.To begin with, many don't realize that, prior to Obama's election to office, a huge wave of chain emails were distributed (and it continues) to create and perpetuate anti-Obama hysteria...
Yes, I do mean hysteria....when one looks at the subject matter, the extremist b.s., it is obvious what emotions were being targeted...
I wrote a few hubs in response to these emails...which were being sent to an uncle of mine en masse..... In turn, he would then send them on, including to my parents...
This is where my animosity towards the "conservative" camp began....
They lied, exaggerated, and innuendoed readers who don't know any better.....and this created the "anti-Obama" energy that still persists..
Has anyone here been sent any of these ridiculous emails?
Concerning socialism vs. capitalism....
Does anyone know why Los Angeles is called the "Fragmented Metropolis"?mikelong... just like this email from Huntley Brown that was forwarded to many? Lies and exaggerations??? Which part?
Why I Can't Vote For Obama
By Huntley Brown
Dear Friends,
A few months ago I was asked for my perspective on Obama, I sent out an e-mail with a few points. With the election just around the corner I decided to complete my perspective. Those of you on my e-list have seen some of this before but its worth repeating..
First I must say who ever wins the election will have my prayer support. Obama needs to be commended for his accomplishments but I need to explain why I will not be voting for him.
Many of my friends process their identity through their blackness.
I process my identity through Christ. Being a Christian (a Christ follower) means he leads I follow. I can't dictate the terms he does because he is the leader.
I can't vote black because I am black I have to vote Christian because that's who I am. Christian first black second. Neither should anyone from the other ethnic groups vote because of ethnicity. 200 years from now I wont be asked if I was black or white. I will be asked if I know Jesus and accepted him as Lord and savior.
In an election there are many issues to consider but when a society gets abortion, same-sex marriage, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning to name a few wrong economic concerns will soon not matter.
We need to follow Martin Luther King's words don't judge someone by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I don't know Obama so all I can go off is his voting record.
His voting record earned him the title of the most liberal senator in the US Senate in 2007.
NATIONAL JOURNAL: Obama: Most Liberal Senator in 2007 (01/31/2008)
To beat Ted Kennedy and Hilary Clinton as the most liberal senator, takes some doing.
Obama accomplished this feat in 2 short years. I wonder what would happen to America if he had four years to work with.
There is a reason planned parenthood gives him a 100 % ratings.
There is a reason the homosexual community supports him.
There is a reason Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, Hamas etc loves him.
There is a reason he said he would nominate liberal judges to the supreme court.
There is a reason he voted against the infanticide bill.
There is a reason he voted No on the constitutional ban of same-sex marriage.
There is a reason he voted no on partial birth abortion.
There is a reason he voted no on confirming Justices Roberts and Alito. These two judges are conservatives and they have since overturned partial birth abortion. The same practice Obama wanted to continue.
Lets take a look at the practice he wanted to continue.
The 5 Step Partial Birth Abortion procedure
A. Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with forceps.
(Remember this is a live baby)
B. The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.
C. The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.
D. The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole.
E. The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.
God help him.
There is a reason Obama opposed the parent notification law.
Think about this you can't give a kid an aspirin without parental notification but that same kid can have an abortion without parental notification. This is insane.
There is a reason he went to Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years.
Obama tells us he has good judgement but he sat under Jeremiah Wright teaching for 20 years. Now he is condemning Wrights sermons. I wonder why now?
Obama said Jeremiah Wright led him to the Lord and discipled him. A disciple is one in training. Jesus told us in Matthew 28 v 19 - 20 Go and make disciples of all nations. This means reproduce yourself. Teach people to think like you, walk like you, talk like you believe what you believe etc. The question I have is what did Jeremiah Wright teach him?
Would you support a White President who went to a church which has tenants that said they have a
1. Commitment to the White Community
2. Commitment to the White Family
3. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
4. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community .
5. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
6. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
7. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.”
Would you support a President who went to a church like that?
Just change the word from white to black and you have the tennants of Obamas former church. If President Bush was a member of a church like this, he would be called a racist. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been marching outside.
This kind of church is a racist church. Obama did not wake up after 20 years and just discovered he went to a racist church. The church can't be about race. Jesus did not come for any particular race. He came for the whole world.
A church can't have a value system based on race. The churches value system has to be based on biblical mandate. It does not matter if its a white church or a black church its still wrong. Anyone from either race that attends a church like this would never get my vote.
Obama's former Pastor Jeremiah Wright is a disciple of liberal theologian James Cone, author of the 1970 book A Black Theology of Liberation. Cone once wrote: “Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.
Cone is the man Obama's mentor looks up to. Does Obama believe this?
So what does all this mean for the nation?
In the past when the Lord brought someone with the beliefs of Obama to lead a nation it meant one thing judgement.
Read 1 Samuel 8. When Israel asked for a king.
First God says 1 Samuel 8 v 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."
Then God says
1 Samuel 8 v 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king
you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."
19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."
21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king."
Here is what we know for sure
God is not schizophrenic
He would not tell one person to vote for Obama and one to vote for McCain. As the scripture says a city divided against itself cannot stand, so obviously many people are not hearing from God.
Maybe I am the one not hearing but I know God does not change and Obama contradicts many things I read in scripture so I doubt it.
For all my friends who are voting for Obama can you really look God in the face and say Father based on your word, I am voting for Obama even though I know he will continue the genocidal practice of partial birth abortion.
He might have to nominate three or four supreme court justices, and I am sure he will be nominating liberal judges who will be making laws that are against you.
I also know he will continue to push for homosexual rights, even though you destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this.I know I can look the other way because of the economy.
I could not see Jesus agreeing with many of Obama's positions. Finally I have two questions for all my liberal friends.
Since we know someone's value system has to be placed on the nation,
1 Whose value system should be placed on the nation.
2 Who should determine that this is the right value system for the nation?
Blessings,
Huntley BrownMost if not all of it were lies from the little bit I read. I'd be willing to bet a hansom sum that the author was not black as well.
LMAO the person who doesnt believe in conspiracy theories doubts the author was black!!! OMG LMFAO!!!! when somethings make perfect sense you just say it is false or ridicule it. you have shown your true colors. lets see you debunk that!! LMAO
"I'd be willing to bet a hansom sum that the author was not black as well."
Do you really want to?!?
"To begin with, many don't realize that, prior to Obama's election to office, a huge wave of chain emails were distributed (and it continues) to create and perpetuate anti-Obama hysteria..."
...and...come on, and...
I seem to recall a lot of hoopla about obama using the internet to promote his candidacy more than any other candidate in our nation's history.
And does anyone remember the Red Guard-ish White House site that was set up so 'right thinking' citizens could report those who were speaking out ("spreading disinformation" in newspeak) against obamacare? It was taken down relatively quickly, but it was there. And the email lists that were being compiled? Wonder if those will be dusted off during the next election?
Lots of dirty hypocrisy to go around...This was QUITE obvious on hate-talk radio.
Only one I even listened to then was Jay Severin.....and he was just as bloviatingly bad as Russsshhhhhhhhh.You are right about the emails..the hysteria. On a lark, I signed up to get Tea Party propoganda. I get several emails per day. You wouldn't believe the crap- makes the wingnuts on hubpages look sane.
You're welcome... But I will tell you this - having read the factless, historically inaccurate "spin" that the Tea Party puts out to its "followers," I am not going to convert anytime soon.
In all fairness, the Left puts out their fair share of crap too; I am able to dismiss the "crap" on both sides. I hope you can say the same....
Just for the record. My opinion is, anyone on these forums getting paid to post political threads are scum! Not pond scum, cause that would be a slur on pond scum. But a type of slime similar to the the trail a slug or snail leaves when oozing along about their business. You get the picture!
But sadly enough, there are always takers.Caltex:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 … obama.html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/0 … -carolina/
These are just a few.... Every day my dad would receive more from my uncle... And this relation of mine is no idiot, per se.... He was a captain in the Army....he was a land surveyor and city planner for the state of New Jersey, and he helped build a Christian school...
I even debated him online wia email, debunking his ridiculous claims and calling for him to do basic research before he passed on lunacy....
Did he listen?
No...
He claimed that my "liberal" university education had warped my brain.... I was the brainwashed one....
How pathetic and sad....
Let's just say that I don't converse or exchange emails with this man any more...
What is more sad is that he continues with this stupidity...and he has a lot of people on his email list who receive, and even support this tripe...
But, Hubpages has these loons too...
The Loveless Lady thinks Obama is a socialist (which is a buzzword for anti-American)...and if the birthers (another of the chain emails I received that I've hubbed about) hadn't already been totally debunked the likes of LL would probably still claim that Obama is not a naturally born American citizen..
When I hear "conservatives" bring up these bogus points as reality (as Trump did most recently concerning Obama's birth certificate) it makes them all look like weak-minded, uninformed fools...
And they want us to then trust them to run this nation?
How about getting their heads out of their a$$e$ first....You don't communicate with your own uncle because of a difference of opinion on politics?
It's amazing how the far Right will just repeat the same ridiculous conspiracy theories over and over and just completely forget about all of the others that never came to pass. Just last week Lady Love or someone else posted a chain email from like two years.
mikelong, I have to admit I am a conservative. I don't have anything to add to what you just posted as they have been discussed all over pointlessly. I'll just leave it at that and respect your opinions.
I just brought up Huntley Brown's email only because you asked if anyone here was sent one of 'those emails'. And I just thought I'd ask for you to point out if there were any lies and exaggerations in it.You're uncle... "He was a captain in the Army....he was a land surveyor and city planner for the state of New Jersey, and he helped build a Christian school..." Wow, he seems pretty respectable.
And there clearly were several lies and exaggerations.
Maembe,
I did ask which lies and exaggerations on my original post and I have yet to find out what lies and exaggerations you are referring to. How 'bout you point them out to me since you were courageous enough to say what you just said.
And BTW, do you still bet the author is not black? Or are you going to say you really do not care after all? And you're too busy? Apparently, you're not because you had time time to point out "CLEARLY there were several lies and exaggerations". You seem to know and I hope you can enlighten me.
I used to think so too....
Not anymore...
Short-story...
No...I will not communicate with someone who is so dim...
I have tried numerous times to reason with the man...but when I ask him questions and post sources, all he does is respond with a one liner and another chain email (along with an insult about my "liberal education")... I consider discourse with him, at this point, to be a complete waste of time and energy...
He is not related to me by blood....and I find it sad that this person is dragging my family into his web of brainlessness....
Also Shortstory....it is one thing for a candidate to put out information for his or her campaign.... It is another for false information, outright lies, and inflammatory garbage to be passed around under the guise of truth.... Of course, what makes it worse is when the sources are hidden...
I remember one such email, it was supposedly written by a "concerned housewife".....b.s..... Another (which I wrote about concerning "birthing" praised the deranged Orly Taitz for her victory in court against Obama's foreignness....and told its readers to look forward to the upcoming trial.... Of course, the poor readers were not informed that Taitz and her tainted troupe had already been thrown out of court, and their case had been dismissed...
And my poor, simple-minded, no research uncle has the nerve to pass this trash around.... (and the supportive responses he received in return were shocking)..
Short Story...don't mix apples with automobiles....
Back to Caltex:
Yes...I used to give respect to those with rank in the military as well...but after my tour of service, I don't arbitrarily look to such status with any meaning... There are a lot of idiots and worse in the armed forces..
As for the email you posted..... By identifying the writer as "Christian" one then has to assume that Obama is the opposite.... This "outsider", "him vs. us", "real Christian" mentality is already greatly suspect..."By identifying the writer as "Christian" one then has to assume that Obama is the opposite.... This "outsider", "him vs. us", "real Christian" mentality is already greatly suspect..."
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I'll respect it just the same.
BTW, you probably do not realize it - your name-calling only makes the opposite side even much better.So you cut someone out of your life because they don't agree with your political views, and you repeatedly and bitterly insult and demean them in their absence. Does that strike you as the behavior of a person of strong character and an open mind? Arrogance is not intelligence, and intellectual inbreeding creates as many defects as the physical type. Young people sometimes go through this 'angry young man' phase, but hopefully in time you will see that empty, indulgent self-importance and spitefulness are not the qualities you want to be defined by.
In other words, lighten up! You're not that important! Neither am I! Neither is he! Exchange ideas without letting it consume you.
HERE I DO NOT NEED TO GET PAID THIS IS FOR FREE!!!
Wed Mar 30, 11:27 am ET
President Obama’s approval rating hits a new low
By Holly Bailey
After a brief resurgence earlier this year, President Obama's poll numbers are back in the dumps. A new Quinnipiac Poll released Wednesday finds Obama's approval rating at the lowest point in his presidency, thanks in part to voter angst over the economy and his handling of the situation in Libya.
Just 42 percent of those polled approve of the job Obama is doing, compared to 48 percent who disapprove, according to Quinnipiac. And in a bad sign for his upcoming 2012 re-election campaign, 50 percent of those polled say he doesn't deserve another term in the White House.
In January, Obama's approval rating was at 48 percent—the highest number it had been in more than a year, though still dramatically lower than his 59 percent approval rating recorded in June 2009.
What's to blame for the president's slump? For one thing, 60 percent of voters disapprove of Obama's handling of the economy, while just 34 percent approve--the lowest number of his presidency.
Meanwhile, Obama appears to have taken a hit over Libya. According to Quinnipiac, just 41 percent approve of Obama's handling of foreign policy—a new low. Asked specifically about Libya, 45 percent disapprove, even as voters are virtually split on whether intervening in the crisis was a good idea.
The number that is sure to cause most concern for Obama's campaign advisers is where the president stands with independents, a voting bloc that was crucial to Obama's win in 2008 and stands to be pivotal again in 2012.
While Democrats and Republicans are literally opposites when it comes to Obama-- 81 percent of GOPers disapprove, while 80 percent of Dems approve--indy voters have often been more split. But in recent months, the group has increasingly soured on Obama. According to Quinnipiac, 50 percent of independents now disapprove of the job Obama is doing.
Another cause for concern is likely to be Obama's standing with women, another pivotal part of the president's coalition of support. The poll finds female voters literally split over Obama—44 percent approve, 44 percent disapprove. Meanwhile, Obama continues to struggle among men, who disapprove of Obama 52 percent to 41 percent.
Interestingly, Obama is faring badly among every key voting demographic, except for voters aged 18 to 35, 47 percent of whom approve of Obama's job performance. But even that is a historically low number, which is not a good sign for Obama as he prepares to ramp up his 2012 campaign.
(Photo of Obama: Manuel Balce Cenenta/AP)The writer of that piece is obviously trying to paint Obama as "not a real Christian"...
This is quite clear...
From the bipolar Christian perspective, if one is not on God's side, what side is he or she on?
In other words, Obama then becomes a representative of Satan...
How foolish..
As for the name calling "benefitting" the other side...
Not so...
If I see someone on the street corner trying to convince people that Obama is not a citizen, and I then call the person an ignorant buffoon, that other person benefits not at all.... In fact, I might get more people to "grow cahones" and start calling the idiot out more...
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I sure will call it such....
It is then up to intelligent people to figure out which viewpoint is correct...wow you have a warped mind. sorry but there are different kinds of christians and to hold the highest office in our country to go to a church that spews that white hate and anger for america"the chickens coming home to roost" I do not know about you but I do not think that I would want someone who went to a hateful church like that for 20 years and dedicate a book to him and then LIE and say he never heard him preach that stuff! maybe you are being mindscrewed by liberal professors if you can not see through that BS. One of my kids said that most of his Professors are Big left wing people, I do not think my son would lie about that. and by the way he went to Emerson college in Boston
"In other words, Obama then becomes a representative of Satan..."
I just never saw Mr. Huntley's email that way. And considering your response that you are aware that Christianity is diverse, it seems to me that you missed Mr. Huntley's real point.
No....I cut him out of my life because he is poisonous.... He is more of a threat than a family member.. he serves no positive purpose in my life...
As for demeaning him in absence.... I have spoken to him directly, and shared with him links to everything I have written...
My response to him was so harsh because his responses to my questioning (which you do not see posted here) were harsh...
"Do unto others".....and I like to be that force of retribution from time to time...
If someone tries to treat me like an idiot, I will return the favor..
I am not a Christian, hence the phrase "turn the other cheek" does not apply to me..
My uncle is, supposedly, a Christian, however, which makes his comments towards me so much more easy to attack...
The man deserves whatever he gets...
Arrogance is not intelligence...I agree...
And there are few more arrogant than this uncle of mine, Ms. Idiot Taitz and the Birther crowd, or many of the "conservative" caste, like Sarah Palin or Dick Cheney (to name a couple)....
My words can be strong...but that does not mean that they are arrogant...
It is easy for someone like yourself to judge from the outside, with no knowledge base...
But, that is a foolish flaw to follow....
If you know me, then you can speak... Until then, your opinions are pointless.. Come out here to Los Angeles and meet with me sometime, and then let us see what you think...Reread my post and try to get over yourself a little. You'll feel better, I promise.
seriously if he doesnt see why the person who wrote that has legitimate concerns and can not see that going to an anti-american white hating church for 20 years and dedicating a book to him and then LIES and says he never heard him speak this way, then what ever college that guy went to should get his money back! I do not think that post was about him being non-christian, it had many detailed explanations of his feelings and concerns. The church part was Anti- American not christian. maybe comprehension is his weak spot? very good post shortstory.
Short-Story.... I did...and I don't see your point..
But don't let us continue down this useless path...
When I point to the chain emails, did I misrepresent? Do they not continue, and are they not false?
Are there any from the Obama camp like this?
Have "conservative" pundits pulled the "Taitz" and use inflammatory rhetoric to "pump up" the base?
You may disagree with how I communicated my point, but cut to the chase.... Comment on the base content...
As for Danny...
I know perfectly well that Christianity is diverse...
Where have I stated otherwise?
But the man I speak of champions his particular Christianity as the "real deal"...while the other "Christianity claimants" are false..
I came from that same background... My great-grandfather and grandfather led a church that believed that they carried the only "true" message...and that all the other "posers" were the spawn of Satan...
And there are plenty of Christian sects that directly or indirectly brainwash their followers...
I ran the "Bay to Breakers" run in the Bay Area last year...and the people with "Repent Now" signs, with blowhorns calling us sinners and "hell bound", and calling people "ungodly whores" was astounding...
We get them on the UCLA campus too..... They congregate by the gym and commons trying to tell us, sometimes through signs...sometimes through screaming rants, and sometimes through true displays of arrogance (trying to challenge the "non believers to defend themselves..such a cheap ploy)...
I ran the L.A. Marathon a couple weeks back...and even during that run the Christian extremists came out with their signs and chants... I call these types imperialists of the soul....
But, I do know that many, if not most, do not fall into this category...
I have no issues with religion, and though I wave no flag myself I will fight for the right of a person to believe what they wish...
But when one starts pushing their view onto me...that is another issue altogether..
As for the Reverand W... I have not listened much to him...
I will listen and read, and see what I think...
And, perhaps, if I decide to pose some questions concerning things he said, you will participate in the discussion...that was a very nice post and I commend you for that! yes both sides spew nonsense, yes a lot of fake or half truth things come out on both sides. when you said you have not heard reverend wright that was surprising to me. I really hope you watch some of his sermons on youtube and get back to me I'm curious what you truly think after watching that and knowing our commander and chief went there for 20 years and dedicated one of his books to him and then denied he heard him speak this way. I'm a registered democrat and wanted Hillary especially after what bush did with Iraq. I blasted Bush because we had no right to go there they had no part of 9/11
I always voted who I thought would be best for us most of the time it was Democratic. I did vote for reagan and thought he did a decent job especially in foreign affairs. I'm sorry Obama is a disgrace to this country as a president. he bows before muslim leaders! they are suppose to bow to him! we are the United States! to me that just showed either weakness or him bowing to a religious leader because he does know the Muslim religion he was raised Muslim in Indonesia. I do not know which one it is but neither are good for the President of the United States. Read his books and I know you would see why he does what he does, I think he is probably a really nice guy but not for president!
Danny...
Can you rephrase what you wrote concerning the "Muslim religion"....1) are you trying to pass off Islam as a monolithic whole? 2) did you just try to say that Obama is a Muslim?
Are we really going down that road?
If the answers to these questions are "yes", I then wish to hear from the "conservatives" here on hubpages concerning this disturbed aspect of their base...
If the answers are "no", then I am curious to find out what you actually meant...Mike it is known that Obama was registered in an Indonesian school and was listed as religion Islam so he know about this religion, That is No secret as he writes about it in his book. so I stated that when Obama met the religious Muslim leader he Bowed to him, so it could either mean that he respects the leader or he showed weakness as a United States President. so either way is not good for a United States President to do. Also his father is Muslim. and I'm not a republican.
Islam
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Page semi-protected
The Kaaba, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, is the center of Islam. Muslims from all over the world gather there to pray in unity.
This article is part of the series:
Allah-eser-green.png
Islam
Beliefs
Allah · Oneness of God
Prophets · Revealed books
Angels
Practices
Profession of faith · Prayer
Fasting · Charity · Pilgrimage
Texts and laws
Qur'an · Sunnah · Hadith
Fiqh · Sharia · Kalam · Sufism
History and leadership
Timeline · Spread of Islam
Ahl al-Bayt · Sahaba
Sunni · Shi'a · Others
Rashidun · Caliphate
Imamate
Culture and society
Academics · Animals · Art
Calendar · Children
Demographics · Festivals
Mosques · Philosophy
Science · Women
Politics · Dawah
Islam and other
religions
Christianity · Judaism
Hinduism · Sikhism · Jainism · Mormonism
See also
Islam portal
v · d · e
Islam (Arabic: الإسلام al-’islām, pronounced [ʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 1]) is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله, Allah), and the teachings and normative example (called the Sunnah composed of Hadith) of Muhammad, often considered as the last Prophet of Islam. In addition to referring to the religion itself, the word Islam means 'submission to God'[1], 'peace', and 'way to peace'.[2] An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim.
Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable.[3] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed at many times and places before, including through the prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus.[4] Muslims maintain that previous messages and revelations have been partially changed or corrupted over time,[5] but consider the Qur'an to be both unaltered and the final revelation from God. Religious concepts and practices include the five pillars of Islam, which are basic concepts and obligatory acts of worship, and following Islamic law, which touches on virtually every aspect of life and society, encompassing everything from banking and welfare, to warfare and the environment.[6][7]
Most Muslims belong to one of two denominations; with 80-90% being Sunni and 10-20% being Shia.[8][9][10] About 13% of Muslims live in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country,[11] 25% in South Asia,[11] 20% in the Middle East,[12] 2% in Central Asia, 4% in the remaining South East Asian countries, and 15% in Sub-saharan Africa.[13] Sizable communities are also found in China and Russia, and parts of the Caribbean. Converts and immigrant communities are found in almost every part of the world. With about 1.41-1.57 billion Muslims, comprising about 21-23% of the world's population (see Islam by country),[13][14] Islam is the second-largest religion and one of the fastest-growing religions in the world.[15][16][17][18][19]If he really were a Muslim (he's not) he shouldn't have been bowing to a Muslim leader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd425zfw … re=related
is that bowing???Looked like a bow to me. I guess he's not a Muslim then.
curious why if he was a muslim that he should not have?
Muslims bow to no one but God.
Of course Muslims are not supposed to drink alcohol or eat pork, etc. too and many do so there's more similarity among the Abrahamic faiths in terms of 'should do' and 'do'.Nobody has to pay them...they do it out of pure JOY!
I clearly said that Obama was raised in Indonesia and listed as Religion Islam, so he know about the Muslim religion, his father was also Muslim. I stated that Obama Bowed before a religious leader and that either one or two reasons for him to do this, first is out of respect for the Muslim religion or out of weakness, either way this is not what you expect from the leader of the most powerful country in the world! to answer your question about Islam below is the wikipedia definition.
Islam
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Page semi-protected
The Kaaba, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, is the center of Islam. Muslims from all over the world gather there to pray in unity.
This article is part of the series:
Allah-eser-green.png
Islam
Beliefs
Allah · Oneness of God
Prophets · Revealed books
Angels
Practices
Profession of faith · Prayer
Fasting · Charity · Pilgrimage
Texts and laws
Qur'an · Sunnah · Hadith
Fiqh · Sharia · Kalam · Sufism
History and leadership
Timeline · Spread of Islam
Ahl al-Bayt · Sahaba
Sunni · Shi'a · Others
Rashidun · Caliphate
Imamate
Culture and society
Academics · Animals · Art
Calendar · Children
Demographics · Festivals
Mosques · Philosophy
Science · Women
Politics · Dawah
Islam and other
religions
Christianity · Judaism
Hinduism · Sikhism · Jainism · Mormonism
See also
Islam portal
v · d · e
Islam (Arabic: الإسلام al-’islām, pronounced [ʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 1]) is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله, Allah), and the teachings and normative example (called the Sunnah composed of Hadith) of Muhammad, often considered as the last Prophet of Islam. In addition to referring to the religion itself, the word Islam means 'submission to God'[1], 'peace', and 'way to peace'.[2] An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim.
Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable.[3] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed at many times and places before, including through the prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus.[4] Muslims maintain that previous messages and revelations have been partially changed or corrupted over time,[5] but consider the Qur'an to be both unaltered and the final revelation from God. Religious concepts and practices include the five pillars of Islam, which are basic concepts and obligatory acts of worship, and following Islamic law, which touches on virtually every aspect of life and society, encompassing everything from banking and welfare, to warfare and the environment.[6][7]
Most Muslims belong to one of two denominations; with 80-90% being Sunni and 10-20% being Shia.[8][9][10] About 13% of Muslims live in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country,[11] 25% in South Asia,[11] 20% in the Middle East,[12] 2% in Central Asia, 4% in the remaining South East Asian countries, and 15% in Sub-saharan Africa.[13] Sizable communities are also found in China and Russia, and parts of the Caribbean. Converts and immigrant communities are found in almost every part of the world. With about 1.41-1.57 billion Muslims, comprising about 21-23% of the world's population (see Islam by country),[13][14] Islam is the second-largest religion and one of the fastest-growing religions in the world.[15][16][17][18][19]I'm astounded that you think that the President of the US should put himself above all others!
I'm just speechless!
Pure arrogance.that is the difference between the USA and other countries. When you are the leader of the most powerful country you do not bow in submission, respect should be mutual! I knew you were weak John this just proves even more about you.
One should respect the customs of others. Humility is not a sign of weakness.
who said humility is a sign of weakness? get with the program son! I do not know if you live here in the states but I like to believe we are the SUPER POWER and it is something you should take pride in if you are from this great country. look for Libya the brits and french and other nato partners need us because we are the leaders! they could not do what we do as good as we do it! the french have enough to last for 2-3 weeks and they are done, brits not much more. We are the LEADERS.
You clearly implied that humility is a sign of weakness again with this post.
Also, I am proud of many of the accomplishments of our country. We were the original anti-colonial superpower. Although you seem to dislike the very foundation of our country, I am very proud of what our anti-colonial efforts allowed us, and the rest of the world, to accomplish.
Bowing is not an indication of "submission." It is a courtesy, no more. I do agree that somebody shoujld have briefed the president on the custom and it would have been preferable for him to have followed it. However, no big deal. I wonder why we're wasting our time on such insignificant issues??
bowing is a sign of submission. respect is mutual ralph. if they mutually shook hands, hugged, even kissed on the cheek that is mutual. It shows either a sign of weakness or his respect for a Muslim Leader. either way not good. and if it wasn't wrong why did Gibbs try and spin it and Lie about it? This is the highest office in our country and it is embarrassing. maybe it is no big deal to you but it is to me. I guess when our presidents make mistakes we should say what is the big deal like Bush going into Iraq, what is the big deal? NO he was wrong for going there and invading that country, they had nothing to do with 9/11. this is just one of Obama's blunders. Ralph is it OK for him to go to a Anti-American Church for 20 years spewing hatred for America and dedicate a book to his reverend and then deny it? I want to hear that is not a big deal either that the President of the USA should sit in a seat in a church for 20 years saying the chickens are coming home to roost! that is why he apologizes to everyone for America. we are the strongest country and believe it or not if we were not who we are a lot more atrocities what be happening because many are afraid of us!
Who say's that he was bowing in submission?
When you are the leader of the most powerful country you can afford to be magnanimous and not prance around like some little tin pot dictator demanding respect off every body else.He had no idea what to do and was just making it up as he went along.
Like all of his foreign policy actions.please you have no clue! your from Brittan. here in the states we are the super power! and you have to have PRIDE in America I didnt say he should expect for everyone to bow to him, but he certainly should not be bowing to anyone! again respect is MUTUAL
Part of the problem is that, as with most of his misguided efforts at bending over - backwards or forwards - to 'humble' America, he did so from the wrong motivation and with no idea of how to do it.
There is a classic picture of him bowing to the Emperor of Japan where he is just about doubled over to where he could untie his shoes with his teeth and the Emperor has this look on his face like, "What the F is this guy doing?"
John how come he did not bow to your queen????
@John Holden - if it were just a regular Joe we were talking about, I will agree it is pure arrogance. Absolutely! In this case, however, we are talking about a 'head of state', supposedly the most powerful, that is why a lot of heads turned when this happened.
@Maembe - yup, humility is definitely not a sign of weakness, but that is not the point here. Just like DM pointed out, where's the bow for the Queen if that was really the point? If the bowing were consistent, your argument would have been more plausible.
BTW, what about the bet you mentioned earlier about the author not being black? You still on it?)My argument was about customs. If it isn't customary for the president to bow to the queen, he shouldn't bow to the queen.
it is not customary to bow to a Muslim leader being the leader of the USA, has never been done before! so where is your argument? and the white house tried to deny it! keep drinking the Obama koolaide
Maembe, I better let you in on this info if you are a stickler for customs:
It is not customary for a president to bow to the king. As a matter of fact, Robert Gibbs who was then the WH Press Secretary, had to deny that it was actually a bow when the press asked him about it. Just so you would know, too, 'the bow' was actually said to be a violation of tradition and protocol, hence, the denial.
I usually ignore the political threads, but I'm commenting on this one only to say that I now see that the other thread talking about paid posters was only a continuation of this one.
Whether we have paid posters or not does not interest me in the slightest, what concerns me is having people using this forum for their own political ends instead of writing hubs.
Then again, I suppose nothing is stopping them posting, if they are having funTo begin with, let us debunk the bowing b.s.
Nixon bowed to the Chinese premier when they first met....bowing has always been a custom between dignitaries...
Our presidents kiss and hold hands with the male leaders of Saudi Arabia...there's some great pics of dear old Bush looking like a cheap date...
There are those who believe that we shouldn't bow because somehow we must project superiority wherever we go...
What, no bowing because we are 26th in the world in education?
Because Cuba ranks higher in terms of healthcare provided when compared to the United States? (those darn communists....or myself according to the dear Lady)
In my opinion, anyone who talks against the "bowing" is an ignoramous...both because of the held idea and because one wastes time and energy on such drivel...
If you fall into this category...don't dispair...you can change...
But for my purpose for writing this statement.....
Those who call themselves "conservatives" here on Hubpages...It appears that Danny is one of the deluded who cloud your electorate base...
Do you set him straight, or are you afraid to point out that he is mistaken?
1) Do you believe that our President is a Muslim?
2) Do you see Islam as a monolithic whole?
3) Is the religion of Islam a threat to the United States?
4) If the President was to be a Muslim, should that invalidate his Presidency? Do we discriminate against religion and deny him the office he clearly won? (as opposed to a certain Bush election preceding massive tax cuts and two unfunded wars)mikelong, I have to say you probably will have a better argument if you quit on the personal attacks.
Just imagine your post minus your name-calling and your personal attacks - it will be a lot more respectable and worthy of discussion.obviously mike you do not read very well, I told you I'm a registered democrat! second It would not matter if he was Muslim but be honest about it!
your boy Obama is a blatant LIAR! did you watch the reverend Wright sermons???? I bet you have but have not come up with anything intelligent to say to get out of that one! Again YES this is the GREAT USA and we our LEADER is suppose to show STRENGTH. a hug, handshake even a mutual kiss is fine but you do not show submissive behavior! I'm sorry if I have my dignity and sense then you and Think highly of our great Country. Like I said and again read his books he was brought up as a MUSLIM in INDONESIA! your president said it in his book! your a strong left wing progressive and I see why your Uncle was hard on you, when someone doesn't think like you, you just use personal attacks. your Uncle was probably frustrated with your foolish mindset as everything you say isn't 100%. right away you assume I'm a conservative and I stated I wasn't a few times and even told you I voted for Hillary in the primary and Hate Bush for Iraq but those go right over your far left Nancy pelosi harry Reid thinking head. I'm a real Democrat not a far left socialist trying to change this great country. also please explain why every state that the democratic party runs these days are bankrupt or going bankrupt and the conservative states are doing much better? these are facts and My party was infiltrated by socialist who want to take down this great country! we do not apologize to anyone! if you do not like what this country is about then move to Cuba and get that great healthcare you believe they have! all I know is when rich people from other countries are very sick they come here to get medical help not CUBA! that just shows your warped perception of our great country.you wouldn't last a month in CUBA!Rich people from here get great medical care here too, Danny. But we are not all rich here. Of course, you know YOU can always choose to leave this country too, and not have to put up with all of the socialists you claim want to bring the country down.
Have you ever actually heard an admitted socialist say "Hey, what can we do next to bring our hated country down?" Do you disagree with all "socialist" programs? You know, our public school systems, social security, etc.?I believe in helping people that actually need it! also social security comes out of your pay so to say it is totally free is nonsense! do we need healthcare reform, yes. This is not what this country was founded on and I'm not the one trying to change it! try twisting another way. and regardless what you say we do get get healthcare here, I was just saying if our healthcare was that bad why does everyone come here for medical services? please do not take things out of context. and last yes just like a thief will tell you ...hey tomorrow when your at work I'm going to rob your home. please you have to be smarter than that my friend
No, social security doesn't always come out of one's pay, Danny! Sometimes the one drawing the check never paid anything in, such as in a wife drawing on her deceased husband, or a person drawing more than paid in. Irregardless, it is a social program. You didn't mention the school system, I noticed.
What was this country founded on, Danny? You keep claiming you read a lot and encourage others to do more reading, so which great programs did the most for this country? Slavery? Children working in factories? The Chinese coolies building the railroads? Americans wiping out 3/4 of the native Americans and taking their land? This country was founded on greed, nothing less. Now, tell me what YOU read about!oh please with your socialist nonsense! like i said I believe in helping people, but people who actually need it! and the husband has been putting in and most times for years and that was a long time ago and many woman work today! how convenient to leave that out. It actually isn't something for absolute nothing. as for schools Yes but again a lot of people pay for this also through taxes, My taxes here in NY are 11,400 a year and about 4600 go to school taxes. I'm all for helping the needy but many are lazy and looking for handouts. this country was based on CAPITALISM and grew and became the greatest because of this! anybody who strives hard enough can make whatever they want if they truly have the desire! and you socialist want to penalize these people who risked their money and time because you think it is not fair! that is not what this country was founded on.
Which socialist nonsense? And those capitalists who imported slaves to do their work for them? Or hired children to work long hours in the factories? These are the CAPITALISTS who founded this country, Danny Boy.
It sounds really good with the Mom and apple pie myths to back up your claims, but really, you need to do a little more reading about how this country was REALLY founded. If your ancestors were slaves in a cotton field you might have a different viewpoint.wow another anti-American. I'm of Italian decent and we were abused when we first came here, the Irish was abused the Spanish etc... please that was a longtime ago get over it! as for the slaves who sold them??? do you know history? should the Jews who were slaughtered by the Germans by the millions should feel something is owed to them? no more child labor here we moved on. why don't you go to china they still have child labor, or most middle eastern countries are killing and stoning people! or the African nations causing genocide, would you rather live there? you people are never grateful.
Anti-American? Anyone who doesn't think like you is anti-American?
And what difference does it make WHO sold the slaves to Americans to treat as they chose? Does this make slavery right? As long as someone else caught and sold them it wasn't wrong?
And where did you read most Middle Eastern countries are stoning people, Danny? And I think you've got it backwards. You are the one taking up for the slavers and child labor protagonists, so YOU would be better off going to those countries YOU say are so bad.
Unfortunately for you, my vote counts as much as yours, Danny. I know you don't like it, but too bad. Get over it! But feel free to go somewhere you can find others of your mindset. Just don't pretend you know what's best for everyone else. Those who owned the slaves thought the same.YES that is what I said! you socialist always think your right and spin how ever you feel will be in your best favor. I do not like Slavery, I do not like child labor. Stoning does happen in the middle east IRAN??????? that woman who committed adultery. you spin how ever you think will make you feel better about yourselves! Right everyone ones vote counts the same and that is why the country spoke up the last election! did that not happen???spin that! I'M the Anti-American one but you think our president should be bowing to Leaders of other countries. apologizing for America. you are the one who has it wrong Randy. just remember that whipping from the last election it will be worse this time!
Perhaps it would have been better if they had simply stripped the victims naked and piled them up like OUR guys did in Abu Garib? Or put hoods and dog collars on them and threatened them with sexual acts? Sure, take the high road and don't mention the cruel and illegal acts our country has performed.
No, we don't torture, as Dubya said. We simply send them to other countries to be tortured or hire non-Americans to do it for us. Yep, you are certainly well read. But what you have read seems to be slightly skewed or just plain false. Perhaps you are proud of how we murdered and enslaved people to justify the capitalists greed. I am not surprised!wow you are ANTI-AMERICAN!! you talk smack about your country like that?
I did not say torture was OK, but this country does what it has to and make it safe! again if you do not like the USA you can go to Libya or Iraq, Iran, Indonesia where ever you like. I do not like Bush i said it a million times. also I do not think they did that for capitalistic greed, that is a LIE. they did it to get information which helped capture other osama followers and terrorist. again not saying it was right.There has never been anything to show the US received any pertinent information by torturing prisoners. Except Cheney's unproven claim. I suppose you are okay with our guys being treated in the same manner? Not, they are going to torture our guys anyway, but that you would be okay with it, are you?
And quit telling me to move somewhere else, I had rather you go instead! Once again, you decide for yourself, not me.
Talk smack? Please point out the untrue "smack" as you call it. I am open to any "facts" you might possess. Osama followers we captured because of us using torture on prisoners would be a good start.The results of the torture elicited much wrong information, as the tortured person admitted. He basically said the same thing John McCain said about using torture on prisoners of war.
American's torturing prisoners of war. Aren't we proud?
The 'confessions' of prisoners are always checked against other sources and known facts for just such reasons, no matter how the information was obtained.
so is it OK to get beheaded? stop with your holier than thou attitude. show me that facts that it didn't. like we have all that private classified info. yeah OK. whatever doesn't matter anyway.
Sorry, I can't understand your question, Danny! It seems muddled and confusing to me. Sorry you don't understand how this country came about. Try reading some actual history for a change.
Slavery was condoned by America long after other civilized nations saw how unjust it was. Yeah, great humanitarians in our history books. I suppose you look up to these fine capitalistic founders of America?
sure Short gives you facts and you dismiss them, please if you are not going to be logical and admit when your proven wrong, please do not reply to my posts. Thank you.
No problem, I had rather converse with someone literate anyway.
Caltex,
I understand your sentiment..
I have dealt with too many "Texans" (remember him?), Sab Oh's, and Ladys, among others who's avatars escape me, to hold back..
From my experiences here on Hubpages....those I am directing my energy towards don't listen to valid argumenation... If one looks into the history of my posts, I think you'll find that I have evolved, or perhaps in your mind, devolved into this..
The ideas are valid, and worthy of discussion...if one gets offended by "ignoramus" then they need to figure out why that would be.. Perhaps that will generate some kind of energy to do some research on their part...
Towards Danny...
And I am a registered Republican... There are "conservative" Democrats, but there aren't any Republicans who really drift in the other direction...
You can believe what you wish about Obama and blatant lying...but 1) to try to portray Muslims as threats to this nation is bigoted and nonsensical..to group Muslims as a whole is ridiculous.. 2) To continue to drabble about the need for the President to display dominance wherever he goes is misguided... This is not a personal attack...it is simply calling it what it is...
3)I don't think you've read his book...and while I admit that I have not, I would wager a tidy sum that you are flat wrong....which then makes me think about your "blatant liar" statement and wonder if you don't suffer from a case of projection..
4) My President? He's the President of the entire nation...to infer otherwise is unadviseable.. If you are trying to deepen the American divide then may the ill-results of that Pandora's Box fall on you more than those of us who wish otherwise...
5)Even if Obama is a Muslim....there is no law or precident that could exclude him because of religion.. If you think otherwise I think you need some serious lessons concerning the Constitution...
Why are states in trouble?
Do you wish to discuss the effects of globalization? Are you ready to discuss the exacerbated transnational movement of money and goods, and the inequality that is discussed in Citigroup's memo:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674234/Citig … ort-Part-1
Danny, your "if you don't like America then leave it" nonsense is classic nonsense...
You have shown that you know little of the country you are trying to "defend" in this forum...Mike I know nothing but your willing to wager a tidy bit on something you admit you have not read? an I'm ignorant? that is the funniest thing I ever heard. go read the books before you spout your nonsense! I still have not heard you mention reverend Wright yet???? I know only you can comprehend everything, anybody else has a different view and they are wrong! I would hate to have known you before you evolved! I believe we are the supreme country and our Commander and Chief should act like one and not a wimp! like i stated but you obviously conveniently missed I said a handshake, hug or mutual Kiss is fine but not a BOW! if you want your president to be a wimp your in the wrong country! as far as if he is Muslim I again stated it really would not matter but be HONEST about it! you seriously have comprehension issues, please read my posts again and take off your far left BS. oh and was your president Bush and you stood by him when he was president? I would bet a tidy bit you did not!
as far as states go on the entire country, again and please read a few times so you do not misquote me again, I said why are states that are run by democrats in much more financial trouble than states that are predominately republican? could it be they do not tax to death? we as a country have trouble because many companies are leaving because we tax them to death and in order to make a profit they relocate! if they do stay in the states they move to Texas etc... where it is more business tax friendly. say this is not true and I will put you on the phone with my brother who moved to Texas for that reason! NY was just too expensive and taxing eating up everything. I did not give you any nonsense to research and look up I said read his books and watch Wrights sermons which is him in his own words spewing white hatred and anti-American thoughts! if this is not a valid argument then your the one who has the real issues.
Wow... Troubled...I think that is what you are...
I will research Mr. Wright in good time... But, I think that you have a lot of reading to do yourself...on so many fronts..Delusional Danny....
What else can be said...
I'm wondering, what is with the Aztec calendar for your avatar?
Out of curiosity....
Danny, I really feel for you.... With views like yours, it makes sense that you seem so perturbed...
I don't know what your background is, but it is clear that you don't know a lot about international relations....
Your ongoing need to see Americans "dominate" others is childish, foolish, and completely egotistical...Was there any point to that post other than to personally insult him?
your the delusional one, once again attack when you have no clear proof! I see you have so much time but still refuse to answer the logical question about reverend Wright and his Anti-American Church that you savior went to for 20 years! you will avoid the truth because it does not make your case look good! I actually feel for you that you have to attack when you have nothing solid to go on except some fools making up some stuff over the internet. most are true though but you have your socialist views from your Liberal professors that brain washed you as your uncle said! I did not say I want us to dominate everyone, I said I do not want THE PRESIDENT of the USA to BOW to anyone, once again you put your Socialist spin on things that were not said because it does not fit. as for the Aztec sign I did a hub on 2012 with the Aztecs and used that calendar. I did not want to have a silhouette and just used that until I upload a pic. is that sufficient enough for you? my background is of Italian decent parents came here legally from Italy and worked very hard. I have 4 kids all college age and above and I'm 45. I have a lot of experience in International affairs as My business works mainly with Europe and Asia. I have had a few business's and grew because of this great country and the opportunity it gives everyone, one just has to be motivated to get what they want and not look for handouts. I totally believe in helping people but not making them rely on the Government! lazy people that are capable of working deserve NOTHING! Sorry I think your Uncle was right about you! and whatever school you went to I would ask for my money back they did not do a good job!
The same can be said for those who educated you. I hope your parents were decent! LOL! Or did you mean descent? I certainly hope you don't have to correspond by mail to many business people in your line of work.
Who cares what ignorant preachers say in church? I went to church for years and found out most preachers are dumb as a post! I didn't let them affect my life and I hope Obama didn't either. I suppose you agree with everything your present or past religious spokesmen have said? Get off of this stupid Rev Wright thing. It's a dead end for gaining you any credibility! Not that you have a chance of obtaining any at this point.
now lets just look at what you wrote, I hope Obama didn't either. so you are not sure? why? because he dedicated a book to him after sitting in the pews for 20 years? This is an Anti-American thinking church! would you dedicate a book to your pastor after you call them dumb?? so your Obama dedicated a book to a ignorant preacher and this does not show anything to you? and you question my ability to correspond to business associates? I do very well you should be so lucky. but I would not expect anything different from socialist who have there hands out looking for the government cheese.
Who have "there" hands out? Goodness man, I suppose those you communicate with do not care about your ability to use proper spelling and grammar. Rant on, on one cares dude!
funny how you now judge proper spelling and grammar but make a mistake yourself! on one cares dude! good one
There's nothing wrong with grammatical mistakes. Your posts on the other hand, are often borderline unreadable. You obviously are in need of liberal college instructor to brainwash you with his or her grammatical knowledge and writing skills.
thank you, when you socialist are beat clearly attack! Is that suppose to hurt my feelings? Does it make you feel special now? nothing Intelligent to say so distract and attack. How about you going to a psychiatrist to clear your brain from the over-load of Kool-Aide
You went to church for years, but if you heard things there that were down right offensive to you would you have continued to attend?
Sure I would if I were running for political office. It is a requirement to act religious in this "God founded country' if one is to be elected.
I've been to few churches which don't have their own religious nuts preaching there. They are all cut from the same cloth, IMHO!
Even the criminal Bush went to church, didn't he?If you were running for political office that would be a compelling reason NOT to sit there soaking up hateful venom from some charlatan, as obama's issues suggest.
And, what 'crime' are you referring to in that childishly gratuitous comment at the end of your post?What crime? Are you kidding? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld all have to watch their step when traveling abroad lest they be arrested for various crimes including violating the Geneva Convention against torture, among others. Bush also arguably committed crimes against Americans by authorizing violations of FISA's prohibition against spying on citizens.
He committed no crime in regards to any of the above mentioned. Thousands upon thousands of legal experts far more learned than you or I have not been able to prove any such 'crime' in any serious way despite similar partisan political motives and the fact that successful prosecution would make them instantly and wildly rich and influential. They can't. You can't. Some silly europeans will play make-pretend over it, but nothing will come of their self-indulgent posturing and you know it.
No, I don't know it. Some of the greatest legal scholars have said that Bush violated the Geneva Convention by authorizing waterboarding. Bush admitted in his book that he authorized waterboarding on the advice of a couple of third rate lawyers in
Cheney's office and John Yoo. Yoo's memos on waterboarding were manifestly deficient.The practice and procedures for waterboarding were established within a legal framework. Not illegal not matter how many teeny-tiny cups of coffee the europeans drink while emoting over it.
But not illegal does not mean that it isn't torture.
I could make a case that talking with liberals is torture too! Lol!
See my post re water boarding and note the 14 seconds that CIA withstood water boarding for before capitulating.
Are you trying to convince me it works? Good job.
That's right! Very specific techniques were used and a legal opinion was obtained from the justice dept prior to employing them. This was NOT the same waterboarding the Japanese used on their victims in WWII.
But liberals don't read any sources but their own. It's reassuring to stick with like opinions so independent thought isn't required.You mean the sort of water boarding that resulted in US forces executing Japanese soldiers for using in WWII?
Can you explain to this ignorant lefty how exactly water boarding as carried out by the US deferred from that used by the Japanese?
I have tried to find out but the internet remains quiet on the subject beyond describing water boarding.
Here is wikipedia's take on water boarding;-
"The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:
In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]
Dating back to the Spanish Inquisition, the suffocation of bound prisoners with water has been favored because, unlike most other torture techniques, it produces no marks on the body.[24] CIA officers who have subjected themselves to the technique have lasted an average of 14 seconds before capitulating.[3]"It took me about 30 seconds to find the difference. The Japanese didn't put a cloth over the nose and mouth they held the prisoner almost upside down and poured the water directly into the nose and mouth. This was accompanied by beating and burning with cigarettes.
I'm sorry but the USA does NOT torture!
http://www.drudge.com/archive/120770/co … erboardingJeez woman! A bit of cloth over the face means it's not torture! Use your imagination, sorry borrow somebody else's and use that!
Did you actually read what I posted, covering the face with plastic, making a hole in the plastic for the mouth and pouring water through the hole!
You are beyond the pale.Blah blah blah like Ann said that form of waterboarding would have been considered a reward by the Japanese!
It was found not to meet the legal definition of torture. If it saved American lives then yes it was all right with me!
No evidence has been produced that the waterboarding saved even one life.
Well,what did they say?
Denying without backup just doesn't work.
According to the CIA, information obtained from Abu Zubaydah and KSM was instrumental in preventing several other terrorist attacks on the US and in undermining al quaeda's ability to function generally.
But according to Abu Zubaydah, he told them a pack of lies!
You don't understand how information obtained from prisoners is used.
I don't! What's that got to do with whether water boarding is torture or not?
Imagine, you are being tortured but know nothing of any interest to the people who are convinced that you do? What will you do, will you insist that you know nothing whilst in fear for your life, or will you make something up, if only for a few minutes respite?
Sure, and Abu Zubaydah and KSM knew nothing at all. They were just random people plucked from the streets. Come on. There was never a question as to whether they had information, it was just a question of whether they would disclose it.
zubayah even indicated that he had a religious obligation to resist only up to a certain point and that waterboarding got him to that point.So, that in your opinion proves that waterboarding isn't torture!!
Do stop trying to move the goal posts, my argument is that waterboarding is torture. My opposition, Lady Love, claims that it isn't.
All your deflections are no more than that, deflections from the real discussion.John - you are wasting your time. Your 'opposition', as you call the mindless gaggle of trolls and paid shils you are trying to argue with, are too dumb to connect their own whining about freedom, freedom of speech, human rights in other countries with the more gross examples of their own govenment.
They are so short of vision and reason they can't see that the killing of brave UN people who are prepared to BE in these places of danger （created by the US) is totally connected to their support and encouragement of their right wing christian friends to publicly burn Koran's.
They are so short of self respect they are prepared to lick the a@@ of the masters who enslave them.
They are so self-engrossed with their own mouths they can't see that Guantanemo gives any opposition the green light to torture Americans. They are so blind they can't see that International laws and treaties work both ways, and that it is encumbent on the most powerful forces to follow the law absolutely or they cannot complain when they are no longer the bully on the block.
Unfortunately they are just grubby cowards shouting off their mouths and supporting torture, murder, regime change, race hate and their own bigotted thinking hiding in the anonymity of their digital hate-spew - at the expense of real lives on the ground.There are many improvements the U.S. could make but I don't think that your People's Republic of China is anyone to suggest them. Ques:
Is there torture in China?
Are there public executions in China?
Does China occupy any other countries?
Does China jail activists for human rights?
The Jasmine Revolution is coming soon to a dictatorship near to you and the "Internal Security" forces won't be able to stop it. I'd keep a bag packed if I were you.Oh oh. No reply.
The State Censors must be translating this so that the freedom of the people is not interfered with.
By the way, China is the country most often mentioned as a sponsor of forum combing so that anything anti-PRC can be "corrected."
Right rec?I note you rush to the defense of the shils and trolls but have nothing of substance to say.
My post has nothing to do with China - it has to do with all the things you list being carried out on a vast scale by the US. You can try to deflect attention with your hypocritical and ridiculous blabbering about other nations but whatever is happening in China is a tiny proportion in relation to the deaths, torture, aggressive regime changes and general destruction being wreaked around the world by others.
China is open to criticism - but when your own country is doing everything you list to a far greater extent you are being totally hypocritical when you attack them for it.
Your constant rant about my freedom to post is just blindness on your part and displays yuour own ignorance, not my position.Nice try.
What's happening here? Somebody needs to sell some organs?You are hypocrisy personified.
The thread is about torture in Guantanemo and you put up random pictures with little meaning.
I would guess these guys are up for execution? how many people have the US executed this week ? If you can point up the differences I would be interested.
I guess the predominance of black people in jail and on death row do not indicate some kind of racist bias in the society, some kind of racist control of what are clearly perceived to be an inferior race.
The torture of the Wikileaks soldier is ok by you I suppose - I could go on all day but I guess you will just snipe away from behind your fake designer avater regardless.Here's some friendly advice. Either use spell check or work on your English. It's a little awkward.
Tibet. How about an admission that they don't love having you there. Maybe they do -- are these nuns crying with happiness because they were arrested for not appreciating all PRC has done for them?
A file photo of protesting Tibetan buddhist nuns weep after being beaten and detained by police near the Chinese Embassy visa section office in Kathmandu, Nepal, 25 March 2008. China has sentenced two Tibetan nuns to lengthy prison terms for taking part in anti-government demonstrations last year.File photo/Reuters/Gopal Chitrakar/Nepal
http://www.tibetsun.com/archive/2009/02 … -protests/
Don't you feel the least bit hypocritical comrade?Firstly my English is not at fault in any way. If you can't even see that then you are unlikely to see much else
Your posts are just a pus bag of preconceptions - and you haven't answered one question or point I have made.
I guess reading is not a strong point with you ? or maybe you are one of those unfortunate victims of one of the education systems in most 'first-world' countries that have 'third world' standards of education ?
Your alleged 'nuns' are weeping, not weep. Simple little grammar mistake I know, but so common these days among the half educated.Do I have to tell you everything? Obviously the caption under the pic is from the reference, not me.
I'd watch the nasty words, you'll get banned and then have to fake a whole new persona. I addressed all of your issues in my first post. Go back up & read it. It says you of all people have no right to criticize anyone on human rights.
Don't try to insult everyone's intelligence with your stories of the worker's paradise. We have free press here, and if you'd ever been in the U.S., you'd know that.
Photo time...
Explanation: Those are starter pistols and the guys on the ground are sprinters. (Olympic photo).You are doing all the insulting here - you are insulting the intelligence of anyone reading this stuff. I have never mentioned any workers paradise or any of the other issues you only mention yourself and then try to attribute to me.
This thread is about the right wing shils wo are paid to flood these forums with their lies and deceptions - you seem intent on joining their ranks.
You have NOT tried to discuss or answer any of the points I made - you have set yourself up with a series of pictures and comments that apply in the same degree to what is happening in the US. You show an emotive pic of what are claimed to be Tibetan protestors 20 years ago - what about your protesters jailed just last month ?
Your hyposcrisy stinks.I guess it's not pleasant looking in the mirror, is it?
OK, we'll move on to some data then.
"China projected bigger spending on internal security than on defense in 2011–after spending more last year too–as the government tightens physical and technological controls to quash calls for a “Jasmine Revolution” like the one shaking the Arab world.
On the first day of the annual meeting of China’s legislature, a Finance Ministry budget report showed that actual spending on law and order last year was 548.6 billion yuan ($83.5 billion), slightly more than what was budgeted for the year.
That compared with officially reported military expenditure of 533.5 billion yuan ($81.2 billion) in 2010.
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011 … -spending/
So you have to spend more money on "internal security" than on the military. Well, I suppose that's good news for you, since you'll probably get a raise now. Anyhow, why does internal security cost so much? I thought Chairman Mao liked revolutions. Why not a "Jasmine Revolution?"
....and how 'bout them NCAA playoffs? Who you rootin' for?Lets stay with the twaddle you have already posted before running around more complex things that you do not understand.
I guess it is that education again but your photo of Buddhist nuns is in Nepal. I learned in third grade education that Kathmandu is the capital city of Nepal. So what exactly does that have to do with your point ?
As you are so ignorant of basic geography I guess the rest of your trot can be ignored as you don't know what it is, why it is there or what is happening - except in your tiny imagination
You sound rather truculent.
I'm wondering if PRC is worried about your nuke plants since they're in the news a lot these days. Oops, you don't have to worry, do you.
You just ship all of your nuclear waste to Tibet. Clever.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2000220/posts
Maybe you should just add it to the lead that you put in the toys that you export.
Hey - what about the NCAA's?? The playoffs aren't censored too, are they? Now that's mean.If trying to reason with someone who has no idea what they are talking about is truculent then I guess you would see that as the correct use of the word, although you would be wrong again..
However I see my posts as making points that you cannot answer, because you cannot defend your hypocritcal position. If you don't even know where Kathmandu is then you clearly don't have the ability to argue geopolitics, politics or anything really.
If you are unable to see that the US having more people in jails than anyone else in the world makes your position on these issues untenable then there is little point in just giving you a platform for your psychotic rubbish that seeks to point up blame on others when you are clearly at greater fault.
I am not defendng China in my posts - I am pointing up hypocrisy.Oh, rec rec rec....
You've been a busy boy, haven't you?
"I am not defendng China in my posts - I am pointing up hypocrisy." (pointing "up"?)
I'd say you [are] "defendng" China, or more specifically the blood covered hands that run it. You're just not doing a very good job of it, that's all.
My first post (which came after your haughty condemnation of all things U.S.) asked you what gave you the right to condemn anyone's human rights record. I'm still waiting.
More "doctored up" photos? OK....
Free press is a problem, isn't it?But what has China to do with the discussion, unless you are trying the old "they are worse than us" distraction tactic.
Yes, if we believe what we are told civil rights are pretty much non-existent in China but that does not make it OK for us to throw them out.China has everything to do with this discussion, thanks to rec.
Go back & read his first post. My question to him, and now to you, is "what gives someone from China the right to criticize anyone's record on human rights?"
I've certainly criticized U.S. policy in these forums, but, I'm not an ex-patriot trying to paint a brutal regime as Mr. Roger's neighborhood. Anyway, I don't believe for a second that rec1 is who he/she says he/she is.
I think I'll stay on message until my original question is answered. The only responses I've gotten so far is "they (U.S.) are worse than us." Trying to explain away what is happening in China and Tibet is a difficult task so trying to steer the conversation away from it is the only tactic available. No sale.But Hugh, Rec didn't bring China into the debate, you did!
Rec regularly trolls the political posts and rants on about the warts of the country he claims to hail from (U.S.) and extolling the wonderful life in PRC. If he can't defend it, he shouldn't be trying to interject his talking points into the forums.
Well, he wasn't exactly trying to interject his talking points, he was on topic, which wasn't China.
If the only people who are allowed to post are those who live in entirely blameless countries then they may as well scrub the forums because there will be no one left to post.I have never once ranted on about any perfect life in the PRC - I do set out to puncture the arrogant and totally ridiculous hypocrisy of the right wing ranters like yourself and the little gaggle of shils and trolls.
The normal response from all of you is to claim I have blood on my hands, I support a despot or I am called a second language speaker by semi-illiterates.
Never once does any of you defend the ridiculous and indefensible claims that vomit from your posts.
I will accept that you are simply confused, a fact that I have already pointed out in this thread, rather than a straight forward liar.
If you "go back in this thread" as you suggest you will find that I did not mention China in any respect - YOU DID.
After you directly attacked China I spent a few posts pointing out the total hypocrisy of your position in regards to torture, political imprisonment, occupation of other peoples country and the suppression of protesters.
You continued your unwarranted tirade against China - which I did NOT defend escept to point out that if you want to criticise others for political imprisonment it is totally hypocritical to be shouting off your mouth with Guantanemo at your back, if you want to shout off your mouth about protesters being arrested it is best to wait a few days after your country arrested your citizens protesting at the torture of the soldier in the Wikilieaks fiasco, and the ultimate irony - you choose to shout off about the now 40 odd year old Tibet issue while you are trashing Iraq for oil, Afghanistan and now Libya and all the horrors of Vietnam, the illegal bombing of Cambodia and Laos that helped reduce those countries to ruin -
I don't need to defend China, that is their business, maybe you should open that blind eye that cannot see what your own government are doing before trying to shift blame and attention to others.
But thanks for displaying your crass ignorance so clearly with your 'Tibetan nuns' that you think were being beaten by Chinese in Kandahar
First you said
"The thread is about torture in Guantanemo and you put up random pictures with little meaning."
Then you said
"This thread is about the right wing shils wo are paid to flood these forums with their lies and deceptions"
You seem to be confused to what this thread is about.
I can tell you it isn't about your use of made up words like "youare" "shils" or "wo".
I'll keep my third world education and and the ability to push the write keys while I type.
You can keep the alternate thesaurus you use.
"Your alleged 'nuns' are weeping, not weep. Simple little grammar mistake I know, but so common these days among the half educated."
Uh no, weep would be the correct wording.I guess English is your second language also Jim ? or perhaps youare also a victim of your third world class education system?
No weep is not correct."or perhaps youare also a victim of your third world class education system?"
Is "youare" a word?
The damnedest things happen when you try to be smarter than everyone else.You are confusing typo's with ignorance of English - no surprise there. Desperately looking for typo's in my posts does not make up for the lack of English ability you displayed in trying to criticise my correct grammar, I would suggest that you go back to school for a bit but the system aint much bedder naow aint it
You might also like to butt out of other peoples arguments."Desperately looking for typo's in my posts"
Well if reading is "Desperately looking" then I'm guilty.
Your mastery of the keyboard is quite the sight.
It appears that Abu Zubayah was exactly that, just a random person plucked from the street with no inside information.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … ah-torture
zubayah was just a poor, innocent man plucked randomly from the streets?
Done talking to you.
Good bye and good luck.Well, recommend1 has certainly treated us to a big, steaming pile of direct and indirect insults, emoting, and unsupported accusations.
I like the part about the "brave UN people." That's a good one. Would these be the "brave UN people" raping children in Sudan? Or "brave UN people" who ran away while genocide unfolded in Rwanda? Or "brave UN people" who brought Cholera to Haiti? You don't see bravery like that everyday. No wonder oppressed people everywhere call on the UN to promote and defend freedom and democracy in the world...
Ok, everyone raise your hand if you have a "friend" who has ever burned a Koran...no hands? Thought so. Let me know if you can find one member here who has such a friend. From some of the attitudes on display here I bet it wouldn't be hard to find current members willing to burn a Bible though. The H word.
The bit about "masters" and "enslavement" and "@ss licking" was very dramatic. I'm sure it was quite theraputic to emote like that. If not for the fact that such empty political rhetoric is grossly offensive in light of the reality of actual slavery in the world it would be just a delightful statement.
I notice that lefties love to squawk about Guantanamo being used as a rallying point for terrorists, but it seems that it is more so for the self-destructive lefties society is burdened with than anyone else. Easier to just repeat it over and over like a leftie mantra than to actually think about why it really hasn't been closed yet.
Then the post ends with such emotive terms as "grubby cowards," "shouting off their mouths," (probably meant to say "shooting" but whatever) mentioned racism, bigotry, and implied complicity in murder for anyone who disagrees with his enlightened, highly evolved opinions.
Quite the show alright.Did someone say something about what happens in China being "a tiny proportion" compared to the rest of the world? Someone may have overlooked that China executes more people every year than the rest of the world combined. Just FYI.
No - that is the USA, and it does not account for the murder and devastation around the world due to US foreign policies.
I did not say one word about China, you're puddled
You may, for whatever reason, feel obligated to play the apologist for the CCP, but the FACT is that China executes more people each year than the rest of the world combined.
http://www.japantoday.com/category/worl … d-combined
You gotta be careful whose water you're carrying.But WTF have China and now Japan got to do with whether waterboarding is or is not torture?
I'm not an apologist for anybody. Stop your distraction techniques, they are an obstruction to your beloved freedom of expression!
I don't have time to provide you with a citation, but I remember very clearly reading that the U.S. Army took the position that waterboarding of U.S. soldiers was a war crime, illegal under the Geneva Convention. You can find opinions on both sides of the issue, but the most and best opinions say waterboarding violates the Geneva Convention of which the U.S. is a signatory.
I hadn't seen John Holden's post above which confirms my point about the U.S. Army position on waterboarding.
Shortstory, God can you believe that answer?" sure I would if I were running for political office"! wow we are In deep shit! if we have crazy people like this, God truly help us and I'm not that religious.
Was there any point in your response? Did I address my post to you, Short Story?
Are you Danny's defender now?
He's a big boy, and if he wishes to spout such nonsense he needs to be able to stand up to scrutiny..
If one can't stand the heat in the kitchen....perhaps one shouldn't try to be a cook...
As for insults....Danny's ideas are completely insulting...to Americans, to people from other nations, and to those who have any sort of intelligence at all...So, because you find his "ideas" insulting that gives you the justification to personally insult him? Do you take this approach with everyone you disagree with, or just him and your 'Uncle'?
Short Story...I am sure Danny will commend you for his defense....for he appears incapable of mounting a real one of his own...
His ideas are insulting, and I don't understand the quotation marks around your use of this word...
Danny's words are insulting...he is running around calling people "unAmerican"...and such..
Why do you not counsel him?
Why do you only seem to focus on "insults" when they come from one direction, but not the other?
At least show that you are realistic....if you come after me, also go after Danny...
If this isn't the case, however, and you do more to shelter than to assist this person, then your own flaws are here on display...
To call the need for Americans to display dominance as childish, foolish, and egotistical is not an insult...it is fact...
That wasn't a slur against Danny, per se, but towards anyone who suffers from this national superiority complex syndrome..
Do you not agree? Or are Americans just the biggest and the baddest and the best of the whole world, and all others need to prostrate themselves before us?
I don't know how many here have travelled internationally, but many Americans go abroad and carry this nonsensical elitism with them...and this is why Americans find themselves mocked so much...
If you are unfamiliar with the mockery....travel, you will see it...So, his opinions are "insulting" but yours are "fact"? Is that it? You want to give that one a little more thought.
You say your insults were not "a slur against Danny, per se" yet you directed them at him very clearly and specifically. So, we know that bit of backtracking is untrue.
Finally, do you honestly have no idea how ridiculously arrogant and self-important statements like "I don't know how many here have travelled internationally" sound, implying as it does "well I have, you ignorant rubes!"?
Gotta tame that ego man, it's doing you no good.
There he goes with his insults again... Short Story...are you going to set him straight? Are you going to question the insults that Danny throws....or are you just a partisan critic?
Are you seriously defending your own actions with "But, but he's doing it too!"? Are you really going there? Come on now, you know better than that.
Are you simply going to continue with your one-sided remarks?
How petty and ridiculous you are....just like what you showed in the "Ebonics 101" thread...
Really?
No words of advice for Danny?
How ridiculous...LMAO, I pose real answers and questions and you try and think your way is the mighty way and I'm delusional? Son I travel way more than you to other countries as I stated for business! you are a little whipper snapper that your uncle tried to open his eyes most things you accused me of were totally false you took them out of context. I clearly said I do not think the president of the USA should bow to anyone, I did not say I want us to dominate everyone! you see what you want which is delusional. Again answer the question in a normal sensible way about Reverend Wright and if you agree with his views and think that the president of the USA should have been attending a church like that for 20 years and dedicate a book to him and then deny he heard him speak like that! if that is not an intelligent question and deserve a normal answer you better demand the money your parents spent on your education because you are brainwashed young man. again your smart uncle was right!!!
"How petty and ridiculous you are" - another personal insult.
So, Short Story, are you saying that 1) you have travelled abroad, and 2) you have not seen this elitism that I mentioned? If you are offended by my words regarding international travel, then that is your own problem...
Or do you just continue to avoid direct questioning...
Again...continue defending Danny...and standing idly by as he continues in his obviously misguided rants...
Evidently you two have something in common...I think the point of my post was made quite clearly. Why are you avoiding my question and asking these?
Good, Danny....
I believe you....
Keep ranting about the need for the President to display all powerful strength "because we are the superpower" (as you put it) and "the president is a Muslim".and those of us who know better will just keep shaking our heads...except for a certain few who are more bent on protecting your views than showing your flaws...
On a side note, as I asked you before, what is the relevance of the Aztec calendar? This is not an insult, just a curiosity..you obviously do not comprehend well! I clearly wrote it if you actually opened your socialist liberal teaching eyes you would see it! again I never said I want the President to display all powerful strength I said I do not want the president of the USA to bow to anyone! you see what your clouted delusional head sees. I never said Obama was a Muslim you are the delusional one who said that because you can not comprehend the English language and again you should demand your money back! also you just conveniently leave out the reverend Wright issue I brought up and clearly refuse to answer in an intelligent manner but I'm delusional. I also guess after the last ass-whipping the democratic party took was delusional also, they were filibuster proof and now almost the other way around. ah and yes I'm delusional. since the last election Mr. Obama has made other numerous mistakes and making things harder for them. Please ask for your money back if you can not answer any of my questions and you just rant and think your the ole mighty right one, please do not respond back.
Delusional Danny...
As I have said before, the Democratic party is not some monolithic whole.... There are conservative Democrats who side with Republicans...but the opposite is harder to find..
You claim to be a Democrat yourself...and you prove my point.. Just imagine if your Democrat self was in the Congress....who would you have sided with? Was there ever such a reality as a filibuster proof majority? No......
Why you can't see this, I don't know... It makes me doubt your claim to be a Democrat, however...
What you want from a President has little bearing on reality, and shows naivity on your part regarding international relations...
Don't respond back? Now you're going to order me around? You are revoking my right to speak?
This shows a great deal about your flawed character...
"Oh no...personal insults"
You insult yourself and are too blinded to see it...just look how you never answer one of my questions and change what i did say! I'm a democrat and now you even want to say I'm not and I'm blinded? GOD you are brainwashed. I never said you weren't allowed to speak and ordering you around. I said do not respond to me! see to me is the key word that you do not comprehend. you are the flawed character my friend, I would never regardless if My uncle was right or wrong do what you did! your a sorry excuse of a person. keep insulting and not answering questions and refute real logic and spew your liberal professors views that you do not have a mind of your own! also your right we real democrats have been siding with the republicans because of your irresponsible ways and socialistic agenda! that is why most democrats lost in the last election. wait you will see what happens in 2012! still avoiding the reverend Wright issue and I'm really surprised that you claim to be so intelligent that you did not watch the news and see this and make a logical determination with your own brain instead of taking your liberal professors views and word for it? strange but I'm the delusional one.. your a joke read your rants without any real"meat and potatoes" seriously get your money back! that school gave you the shaft
Now you're going to teach me family values?
You have no idea what has transpired between myself and my uncle..
You can keep your Dr. Phil moments to yourself...
At least I have a degree in psychology...I can't speak for your own educational background...
As for the dear Reverand...I will get around to him...
But, I have answered you continuously over your baseless statements about Obama's "Muslim"ness...
I have spoken towards your obvious fear and bigotry towards Muslims as a whole,
And I have repeatedly shown that your "America the all powerful..bow before me" logic is severely flawed...
But you continue you rants without batting an eye...which says a lot...
If you cannot see how I have answered to you on all of these points you need some serious help...again your putting words in my mouth I continually stated many times but I guess your Liberal professors passed you because you were an easy target that you can not see I never said that. You have no refutable responses so you keep insisting I said things I didn't just to make you feel better. I have no fear over Muslims I have Neighbors and friends and even business associates I deal with that are Muslim, Where did I say this? I never said everyone should bow before our president. you said that I clearly stated and we can not change what we wrote here and it clearly states many times that I do not want our President to bow to anyone! again just in case for the 12th time you do not get it RESPECT IS MUTUAL!!! what part of that is so hard to comprehend? all you do is rant and never answer questions legitimately. why in do time will you answer the reverend Wright question? I guarantee you if you knew 1000% that you could refute it you would have! of course my questions are baseless but your liberal professors views are not...of course not! you make me laugh please go back and read every post from both of us and you will clearly see how delusional you are! and show me how you answered mine, all you did was say mine was baseless without any proven facts. maybe you can give these questions to your liberal professor to answer and get back to me...is that what your trying to do with the simple question of the reverend Wright? you do not have a brain on your own? keep twisting peoples words when you do not have an educated logical answer or just attack them for not seeing things your way. I'm so happy someone like you may teach more kids with your degree in psychology!
Danny....
I do not have to look at Reverand Wright when you tell me to...
As I said...when I post about what I find, I encourage you to participate in the conversation...
I love the continued use of "liberal universities/professors" etc that is used...
1) It assumes that I only get my information from direct schooling....which is a very careless and flawed thing to do...
I derive my insights from diverse sources...the few years I have spent at university provide only a portion of my perspective...
2) "Liberal education" is used as a slur, instead of representing what it actually is..
Education is a pretty liberal thing...especially for the multitude of us poor folk who lacked the familial wealth and connections to be among those who are "traditionally" educated...
Public education is quite a liberal thing.....and this nation has benefitted tremendously from it..
Danny...you try to call against my "insults", but it is you who ceaselessly call hubbers who disagree with you "anti-Americans" and worse (as if there could truly be something worse than a traitor)...
Stop using words like "liberal" as a slur, bastardizing its true meaning... Stop attacking others as being not really equal members of this nation, and perhaps people like me won't respond with force...To which question are you referring?
Are you denying that there is a track record of Americans who behave like "holier than thous" when they travel abroad?
Are you saying that many Americans don't suffer from a superiority complex?who cares about how others act? why are you constantly changing the subject? we are talking about the Commander and Chief! not the average joe. who cares about what other people do and how they act over seas. sure many people suffer from superiority complex but we are not talking about anyone other than the president. stay focused. seriously you really have a hard time comprehending sentences.
"To which question are you referring?"
This one: Do you honestly have no idea how ridiculously arrogant and self-important statements like "I don't know how many here have travelled internationally" sound, implying as it does "well I have, you ignorant rubes!"?You lefties always with your demands for answers... but you never answer questions yourself just distract and change the subject! Someone must be paying you!
I'm looking forward to doing just that as soon as he answers mine. After all, I asked first.
Yeah....right!
Cause that's what's important, right?
Are you a writer or is this your political forum posting account? Just wondering as you have no hubs listed. Why are you afraid to post under your real name?It's rude to answer a question with a question, so the least he can do is answer mine first, no?
I notice this trend of "I don't agree with you, so let me see how many hubs you have and try to discredit you that way." Huh????
LOL @ "afraid." So, do you believe that we have people here whose real names are DTR0005, Druid Dude, and the like? This is just another silly distraction.
What next? You gonna tell me you don't like the color of my shirt?Just wondered if you were a writer or not. If you have no hubs and aren't a sockpuppet, why are you here on a writing site? I didn't say anything about discrediting you because you had no hubs! There are other ways of being discredited here on the forums.
I'm working on a few. Be patient. I haven't had the time to devote to finishing them because I've been writing (among other things) to pay the bills. Forum posts take about a second and help me procrastinate.
Because he is already totally banned twice.
I'm more inclined to believe that there are paid liberals posing as Righties and trying to make Republicans look ridiculous. They are definitely succeeding. I honestly couldn't make up some of the stuff that people say on here if I tried.
Does that mean you won't answer my question?
It's a lot easier to dismiss the leftist crap because it's so much harder to find in the first place. Liberal media, indeed.
Whereas the Tea Party crap has a mega money machine behind it.
Just imagine how pissed those those poor duped citizens are gonna be when they figure out who's really holding the teapot.
So gullible. It's sad.MM, you want a real scare, sign up to get the Tea Party's mailings (emails.)
Why waste time with their emails, DTR0005? We get the complete, unabridged Tea Party rant right here on HP every day!
I'll bite. Who does control the teapot?
Do you have actual, factual data? References? Besides, moveon, msnbc, NYT, etal?Hi logic,commonsense
There are many, many articles that discuss the Koch Brothers and Koch Family Foundation backing of the Tea Party Movement.
I can list them for you if you like.
However, to me, the most compelling is a documentary by an AUSTRALIAN filmmaker. Why would a non-American take it upon himself to choose such a topic? And come to the conclusions he comes to? What possible ulterior motive could an Australian have?
http://conference.freepress.net/session … revolutionGood questions. What is the motivation of the Australian? Hard to believe, but there are left wingers in Australia as well. Not to say that is the case, but it would not suprise me. There is always someone out to 'gotcha', no matter who you are.
Are corporate interests that support the Tea Party movement? I would not be suprised to see that there were.
How many corporations have donated to Obama and the Democrats? More that that have donated to the Republicans and Tea Party combined. At least when Obama was elected. How about the film industry? Left wing extremists?
As long as the Tea Party focuses on fiscal issues, and downsizing government, they will have traction. It's when some factions veer off into social issues that they lose the 'silent majority'.Cuz all non-Americans are communists - silly lady
Logic,
About two years ago, just messing around on the internet, I started looking into the Tea Party. The first thing I did was look for the money trail. I think you can agree that nothing survives without funding. Americans for Prosperity is the chief fund source of the Tea Party. The Koch brothers dump most of their money into American for Prosperity - that is a fact and that is the direct link - one of many. Koch Industries is one of two of the largest, privately-held companies in the US - the other is Cargill.
Koch Industries has major interests in the following: oil refining, chemicals, agriculture, defense contracts, and health care.
And a blind man with a cane could see the attraction: keep the oil flowing, get the EPA on your back about pollution(chemicals), keep agricultural subsidies flowing from Uncle Sam, keep war a poppin' overseas, and make certain health care reform doesn't happen. And that's exactly how the Tea pArty made its mark. And these are all big winners for Koch Industries.
I mean seriously - you can't see the correlation here? The "freedom loving, constitutionlism, return-to-basics" is a smoke screen - this gets the people in the door, it gets people mobilized.. It's the cookie, the free toaster that grabs your interest. Meanwhile, and this is true of all polictical movements, the puppeteers pull the strings from above and you are along for the ride - your vote and you ability to make noise.I'm sure the Kochy monster will pay for my cruise.
Another brilliant response...thanks! Of course you can't factually deny any of what I just wrote, so you do what you accuse liberals of doing - on a daily basis - deflect and ridicule.
I'm sure Koch donated just as Soro's does to 100 Times as many socialist programs! Soro's made out very well with Obama and the South American deal. Soro's bought millions of shares of Petrobras and made a ton!
Actually Soro's is heavily involved in funding many many more Socialist agenda programs hands on. Koch just donates....Big deal. how about the Unions they give the Democratic Party 100's of millions of dollars and you think it is fair that they get them elected and negotiate on the opposite side of the table??
http://hubpages.com/hub/AMERICAN-INVESTMENTDanny, union membership in the US is down to about 11%. In the 1950's during the good ole "Ike years," it was around 33%. You guys talk about how much money the "evil unions" spend and how much influence peddling they do, but the smelly fart in the room is this: the money doesn't seem to be getting them anywhere, does it? And if you believe that unions ultimately bite into business' bottom line (and they do) then it would appear that business is winning the war - continuing to practice union busting (and they are) as the percentage of union labor has steadily fallen over 60 years. Since Ike, there have been 6 Republican presidents and and 5 Democrats. Neither side appears to be very successful in buying the White House - it's virtually a dead heat.
Unions are shrinking everywhere... except in the public sector where union workers ar more than 37% of the workforce! The question is if unions are losing influence everywhere else why aren't they losing influence in government? The simple answer is it's a corrupt system and you know it and everybody knows it! This is the base of the democrats power achieved on the blood sweat and tears of REAL American workers the kind that actually produce the wealth of this country and are actually accountable for keeping their jobs all while they support the blood sucking parasites of public sector union workers!
SHUT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN!And what percentage of the entire workforce are public workers?!!!!!!!!! The answer is 9%. So 37% of 9% are unionized, public employees. And this is the boogey man that you conservatives argue about??? LMAO
Lady, try digging a little deeper before you post - you are beginning to look a little "soft-in-the-head."Now you're making yourself look foolish. What does the entire workforce have to do with anything? The issue is the public workforce but as usual you libs want to change the subject.
Professor Love,
YOU brought up the percentage issue - remember "37% of public workers belong to a union...." You opened the door and walked in blindly and ill-informed, as usual. You brought up the percentage issue because you thought that a big "37%" was an impressive number that would support your argument or lack thereof.
Your broom flew out from under you when confronted with the mathematical fact that 37% of 9% is a very small number - Example: 100% of 1 is 1.
So no, you brought up the percentage issue, found yourself looking stupid, and deflected - as usual.
I am not pro-union, and I am not anti-union. I am just smart enough to realize the following:
The new governors (Republican) came into office and like the idealogue asses they are, cut taxes causing even greater deficits - THAT'S RIGHT OUT OF THE RONALD REAGAN PLAYBOOK. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now - Daddy Bush coined the term "Voodoo Economics" because he knew it was a whacky, bullshit theory. And it was and still is.
So faced with mounting deficits because, again, Voodoo Economics doesn't work, they decide to take on the public employees unions.
Are public employees on the benefit side "overpaid?" Yeah... no doubt - particularly on the benefit side. Are public employees less entitled to collective baragaining? No....unless you are that strange brand of conservative that can "rank" and "compartmentalize" classes of peoples' rights based on yet another "Voodoo" formula known only to yourselves.
And now in Ohio with Kasich, the current plan is to cut funding to public schools even more. Where's the money going? Why it's going to private and charter school vouchers. So public money is going directly in the pockets of private schools and away from public education. And the problem is you of the uninformed class are asking? Private and charter schools don't have to accept a student; so by picking and choosing, they can effectively ensure that they get the brightest of the bright. That , in turn, guarantees high test scores which in turn guarantees - here comes the cookie - more public funding.
So yet again, you have a God-luvin', plain-takin', Republican governor who is futher widening the divide, educationally speaking, between the haves and the have nots. I am not against private schools, but I am not certain I want money earmarked to go to public education going to the for-profit side of the house.
Oh and this has attracted the attention of Republican and Tea Party supporters - MAINLY NEGATIVE attention. Now all the sheep that put him into office are beginning to ask themselves, "Could the Dems have been right about his motives?"
Same thing is going on with Medicaid in the state of Ohio. Kasish's point man, guru, is taking an extreme amount of heat from the GOP and the Tea Party because of proposals to "limit and ration Medicaid dollars - to make certain we aren't overpaying for results.." On the surface it sounds fiscally sound, doesn't it? When you look into the details, it sounds a lot like the "death panels" the Tea Party and the GOP criticized Obama about. And the greatest irony of all ironies is The Affordable Education Act had nothing to do with death panels. Ohio's Medicaid program, under a Republican govenor and State House, appear to be moving toward just that - a death panel-like approach.
And the phone lines lit up on NPR last week. And about 8 out of 10 callers were self-described Conservatives. They were asking Kasish's boy, live, the following: "Well, uh.... mmmmmm how does this differ from a death panel?" And not surprisingly Kasich's boy was speechless...Good luck using facts and logic while rebutting posts of the Tea Party supporters.
You are so ideologically blind that you can't see how senseless your argument is. So let's review..
We agree unions are declining in America.
I pointed out that the trend in " public service" jobs is the reverse. Unions are growing in government jobs currently 37% up from 34% last year.
You decide to explain that 9% of the total workforce is government labor.
Your contention that the 37% government workers that are union is of the 9% of the total workforce which is a small number.
First you're wrong the 37% isn't of the 9%. Second even if it were so its a stupid argument and has nothing to do with my point!
I don't care what the total worce is or does nor do I care that the government portion of that workforce equates to 9% of the total. The fact is unions are expanding in government jobs at a time when they are declining in the rest of the country also
I do not think a % of the workforce is the key but the amount of money it costs. also do you think it is fair to pay government employees much more than private workers? is it fair that the private sector pays more in healthcare and pension? also do you really think it is fair to have to force people to pay union dues? especially when they will go to one party to help them get elected and then have the same people on the other side of the bargaining table? Unions were definitely needed years ago but I truly do not believe we need them now. this is 2011 not 1940's
I also buy distressed homes and fix them and sell them and I never hire union people because they cost much more. I hire private companies which work harder in my honest opinion, get things done faster without 15 minute breaks etc... And that I feel is hurting us as it is much cheaper to buy from other countries because the same reason.If you owed a business and you knew you could make more money by moving your company and becoming more profitable by charging less believe me you would. Look some companies pay 40% taxes and look at GE helped Obama and for that help the CEO was on the board to right the laws and GE made Billions in profit and did not pay a dollar tax! is that fair? that is why government needs to get out of everything.
I'm not really against private unions, it is the public unions that I do not like.
Correlation isn't causation. Just because Koch contributes to Americans for Prosterity doesn't mean he is the founder of the tea party. The Koch's are conservatives as are most of the Tea Party so it makes perfect sense for him to support that group. It's amazing that you can see so clearly the logical connections you've drawn here but you can see that the American Center For Progress, Media Matters, Hufpo, NPR, and the Tides foundation are all supported by Soros and are connected to Obama through OFA.
Professor Love,
I never said the Koch brothers "founded" the Tea Party. I said they "paid" for the Tea Party, funded it. And to deny that is to deny that little round thing in the sky at night is the moon. If you "fund" something, chances are you have a real good say in what people do with your money. The Kochs' daddy and grandpappy started the John Birch Society. Before the term "libertarian" came back into fashion, the Koch brothers referred to themselves as "Birchers." Are you lost yet?
So Birchers, in effect, fund around 90% of the Tea Party. If you read Bircher literature from the 1950's during McCarthyism (which I guarantee you haven't or won't) you will find it identical to the Tea Party's literature of today. All you need to do is take out the term "Red Manace" and substitute the term "progressive Democrat" and, honestly, the platforms are identical. The Tea Party isn't a grassroots movement - it's the ressurrection of the John Birch Society.
The Bircher movement and McCarthyism, incidently, are not known as "bright times" in American history. How do you get around the bad press, at least initially before everyone with some knowledge of history catches on? why you change the name. And as anyone who would be attracted to this extreme form of conservatism isn't very bright to start with, the sheep come running to the slaughter. And you my Lady Love, are classic Bircher material - at least based on your words. Armed with a 9th grade appreciation and knowledge of history and an internet connection, the Tea Partiers are off to change the world all the while not realizing that the Koch brothers and their ilk would just as soon wipe their asses with that Constitution you so proudly proport to defend. The Kochs are all about positioning themselves to rake in the cash - if that weren't the case, why would they be spending so much money to kill every possible piece of legislation that might "hurt" their bottom line?
As for the Kochs and Soros, they are neck in neck on spending their money - only positive thing I see with Soros is that he doesn't try to hide WHY and WHAT he is spending his on. Soros makes no bones about his positions -the Kochs tend to pull the strings from above the curtain.So according to your logic the Koch's are Butchers because their father was. That means Obama is a communist Muslim because his father was right?
Still the Kochs have never denied creating Americans For Prosperity but THAT is NOT the Tea Party. Actually the tea party is composed of many disparate groups and is a true grass roots organization.Actually, the Tea Party is the John Birch Society dressed up in tri-corner hats. The Kochs are Birchers, self-professed Birchers - I don't call them Birchers, this is how they refer to themselves, the Kochs fund the Tea Party, the Tea Party holds EXACTLY THE SAME BELIEFS as the Birchers - EXACTLY. Try reading Professor - neither organization makes or made any bones about what it is about. The Tea Party is the John Birch Society. The problem is its members and supporters are too ignorant and poorly-read to realize it.
Hate to burst the bubble of originality that the Tea Party thinks it holds ownership tof, but the Tea Party isn't new, it isn't original, it isn't anything other than the John Birch Society of the 1950's.
Your logic is faulty - this isn't guilt by association, this is guilt by admission.The John Birch Society mission statement:
To bring about less government, more responsibility, and —with God’s help —a better world by providing leadership, education, and organized volunteer action in accordance with moral and Constitutional principles.
Gee the sound terrible!! I think I'm going to join!! Lol!I get their Literature Professor Love...
What their mission statement is versus what they actually preach or espouse are two different things.
A Mission Statement is simply a soundbite, a synopsis -
The Nazis' Mission Statement was "To Return Germany to Its Rightful Place of Honor in the World...." - Doesn't sound too bad at first, does it?
Soro's does try and hide. your right maybe not as much as Koch but he does hide. I do not like any kind of extremism and will personally be against any such action. McCarthyism or socialism is bad.
Well Danny, for someone who says they don't like any kind of political extremism, if you have anything good to say about the Tea party, you are in fact supporting extremism. You can't get any more extreme, and you know this, than the Tea Party.
I will argue with, break bread with, work side-by-side with any Republican - I have no respect for the Tea Party. I don't disrespect their members because ignorance is an excuse, I do however disrepect the movement because it's history repeating itself - we've been there and done that.I'm not a tea party guy, the only thing I like is the fiscal responsibility and less government. This country will give anyone who really wants to live better and have wealth that opportunity.
My family came here from Italy and we struggled and was POOR. I have a few houses and live very comfortably, paid 75% of my kids college bought them brand new first cars. I left 25% because I do feel they need to learn responsibility but not drown them selves when they are starting out. Hopefully they will be successful and have enjoyable lives. So my beliefs are that if you truly work hard and learn responsibility you can have a fruitful live but always look to help people that need that helping hand, and again not so that we enable them to rely on help but to make them self reliant.
Of course I would! I would be terrified not to continue going! Fire and brimstone scare the crap out of me (which I believe is the intent).
I don't want to be condemned to h-e-double toothpicks, do you???Why do they even bother with writers' sites like Hub Pages? We're too smart to fall for the same old party lines.
Thaat kind of "Obama is evil" drumbeat, drumbeat, drumbeat just turns us off to the message.
Might work (does work) with mindless viewers who believe everything they see on Faux News.
But seriously, has ANYONE here been swayed -- even the tiniest bit -- by these obvious plants?Might Mom - "But seriously, has ANYONE here been swayed -- even the tiniest bit -- by these obvious plants?" - don't you mean vegetables ?
The fiscal issues are pretty much impossible to disagree with!
So why is the vocal minority of the TP not only veering, but domineering on the social issues?
I am heartened to hear there are some TPers who want to focus on the real work and not let moral micro issues dominate the conversation.
There are plenty of us left of center who believe in cutting government waste.
We're also waiting for those JOBS to materialize!S.S....that was more of a statement or at best, attempted rhetorical question on your part...
Whatever connotation you wish to derive..it is up to you..
Now how about answering to some substantive, relevant questions I've asked?That's not an answer. You first, then I'll answer yours.
I heard on Miller's show that the right-wing psy-ops people are also the ones doing a lot of the LEFT wing attacks on Obama!!!
He's getting it from all sides....from the same source!
But they said you can always tell the imposters..they all use the same talking points.A pundit on CNBC speculated yesterday that Bachman and Donald Trump are "Obama plants" on the GOP's list of potential presidential candidates. I took it as a joke, but I'm sure Obama would be delighted to run against either of them or to have them run on a third party ticket.
I'm sure either of them would beat Obama. Remember in thus election Obama is now a known quantity he now has a record he will have to defend he will now have to actually answer questions from the press. Obama wont be able to hide behind friendly one on one interviews or his staged events and teleprompter delivered drivel.
Trump is a clown with a bad plug job, and Bachman doesn't have a firm grip on reality.
They seem like the perfect republican candidates as they mirror their constituents mental abilities.
Ralph how is this guy a clown? you wish you were him and you know it! he has accomplished so much in his life an works very hard and your jealous...admit it! right away you have nothing substantial to say so just attack and make comments about his hair. I'm sure your personal features are just perfect! Bachman is very Intelligent has a great heart she adopted over 20 kids and is a wonderful woman. I do not agree with everything she stands for but that does not mean she is stupid. It just shows how intelligent you are.
OK then, Trump is a clown with perfect hair.
Better?Ralph I'm a nasty character but 95% of your post are bashing people? you constantly throw one liners out there with no factual basis.
I'm "guilty" of bashing Tea Baggers, but, unlike you, I try to avoid bashing fellow hubbers.
Basing is Bashing, and does nobody any good. That is fine you do not like the tea party. but why bash??? does that make it any better? actually I do think you realize how powerful they are from the last election and your frustrated. relax you will get you SS check.
Danny, get real! You say "bashing" does nobody any good so why are your posts constantly bashing!
Hell, even your post complaining about Ralph "bashing" you ends with you "bashing" Ralph!very true John, Are you happy? sometimes I have a bad temper but at least I'm man enough to admit it! more than I can say for you people with your hand out. OH WELL
See, there you go again! "you people with your hand out"!
What is that if not a personal slur?
You have no idea about my personal circumstances but don't let that stop you!
You mean like this one from LOL?
"Libs are the biggest liars and hypocrites going! All they do is attack, ridicule, distract, and dinigrate and when that doesn't work they call you racist! Now you know why I call them evil!"
You seem to be offended only by bashing from the left. Although you claim to be a registered Democrat, you sound more like a Tea Bagger or at best a Reagan Democrat.Well am I wrong Ralph? Just look at any of my posts! No real discussion of the subject matter just attacks on me even to the point of making up ridiculous conspiracy theories about being paid! Libs never stay on point every thread they wander the latest talking point is the Kochs... the fact is you libs can't defend your positions with common sense arguments because when you look at them you can see they don't make sense!
Ralph I call it as I see it! sorry if it does not fit with your ideology! I live in NY on long island and on LI we have mostly Republicans. so I have a large mixture and truly after speaking to many on both sides I have come to the very simple conclusion as you stated I said. Yes to be honest and this does not count for all dems or repubs but the vast majority that I know family friends and associates the Republicans are much more knowledgeable and speak much more sensible. yes both sides have the weirdo's but on average I truly have to say the far left liberals are embarrassing. as for me being a registered Democrat, I am. I guess you can call me a Reagan democrat because I do believe in fiscal responsibility. But my heart is to help people who truly need it. not to enable them but to extend that hand to get them back on track. If the Government was a regular company they would have been out of business a long time ago! if you started a company and couldn't just print money you would be gone. but if you could do what the government does and force people through taxes to pay more because of the carelessness you can stay in business longer but even that has to come to an end when you can not go to the well anymore!
There are quite a few educated liberals in my family and in my neighborhood. I've noticed that they WILL NOT engage in political discussions. The profs among them will 'share' or teach politics to their students, but they will not have a discussion with anyone who disagrees with them. We can talk about anything else in the world but politics gets shut down immediately.
Many of them did discuss politics when George W. Bush was president though.
Early on many countered any criticism of the administration with the race card.
Now they don't want to talk about it period.
I believe it is because they cannot defend the indefensible.Have you ever considered that perhaps they value their time, and spending time 'discussing' where or if Obama was born isn't really a wise investment of time? I can't believe the amount of time wasted with those against him. Why not spend time making a real difference and spend time helping at a nursing home or reading to a child, there's plenty to do. Do you honestly think your threads change anyone's views?
True, there are a couple of exceptions, including yourself and a couple of other provacateurs. :-)
Ralph, don't you mean "your a nasty character"
People are now gravitating away from the Tea Party, now that it is for cutting unemployment insurance and has been corrupted by Beck and Palin. Some Tea Party people have good ideas but they are not front and center.
keep believing your nonsense! where is that proof? I guess the last election did not speak volumes? It was a a$$ whipping and your President is making even more mistakes that even his party is starting to go against him! this is a fact, did you know not one time in history has a president lost rating after a war started! they always go up as Unity kicks in, strangely his is down. Interesting. keep spinning BS
Short Story...if you have nothing of purpose to say to me, at this point, keep your pettiness to yourself...
At least tell me directly if you do or do not intend to answer my question. You seem to have several methods of avoiding discussion on a discussion forum.
that is all he does, just twist and change subjects with no real logic. he focuses on the few things that are false and makes it as though everything else is false too. he doesn't answer questions, he just poses a question to a question or just attacks when he does not have any real answers. His Uncle tried but it was useless. I really believe he should demand his money back from that college.
Libs are the biggest liars and hypocrites going! All they do is attack, ridicule, distract, and dinigrate and when that doesn't work they call you racist! Now you know why I call them evil!
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