jump to last post 1-31 of 31 discussions (166 posts)

Obama says too much testing makes education boring.

  1. OLYHOOCH profile image59
    OLYHOOCHposted 5 years ago

    WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama said Monday that students should take fewer standardized tests and school performance should be measured in other ways. Too much testing makes education boring for kids, he said.

    "Too often what we have been doing is using these tests to punish students," the president told students and parents at a town hall hosted by the Univision Spanish-language television network at Bell Multicultural High School in Washington, D.C.

    Obama, who is pushing a rewrite of the nation's education law that would ease some of its rigid measurement tools, said policymakers should find a test that "everybody agrees makes sense" and administer it in less pressure-packed atmospheres, potentially every few years instead of annually.

    At the same time, Obama said, schools should be judged on criteria other than student test performance, including attendance rate.

    "One thing I never want to see happen is schools that are just teaching the test because then you're not learning about the world, you're not learning about different cultures, you're not learning about science, you're not learning about math," the president said. "All you're learning about is how to fill out a little bubble on an exam and little tricks that you need to do in order to take a test and that's not going to make education interesting."

    "And young people do well in stuff that they're interested in," Obama said. "They're not going to do as well if it's boring."

    The president endorsed the occasional administering of standardized tests to determine a "baseline" of student ability. He said his daughters Sasha, 9, and Malia, 12, recently took a standardized test that didn't require advance preparation but was just used as a tool to diagnose their strengths and weaknesses, and areas where they could use more emphasis from teachers. The girls attend the private Sidwell Friends School in Washington.

    Obama, who has been pushing his education agenda all month, has expressed concern that too many schools will be unable to meet annual proficiency standards under the No Child Left Behind law this year. The standards are aimed at getting 100 percent of students proficient in math, reading and science by 2014, a goal now widely seen as unrealistic.

    The Obama administration has proposed replacing those standards with a loftier yet less prescriptive requirement that by 2020 all students graduating from high school should be ready for college or a career.

    Obama wants Congress to send him a rewrite of the 2001 law before the start of a new school year this fall. Although his education secretary, Arne Duncan, has been working hard with lawmakers of both parties, the deadline may be unrealistic with Congress focused on the budget and the economy. Congressional Republicans also look unwilling to sign off on Obama's plans to increase spending on education.

    TO READ MORE ON THIS POST, SEE LINK BELOW

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110328/ap_ … ducation_2

    1. I am DB Cooper profile image66
      I am DB Cooperposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The tone of this says "anti-Obama", but the content says "he's on the right track". Standardized testing is not helping the American school system. Yes, it does create accountability for the worst teachers, but it also stifles the best teachers. Everyone is forced to "teach for the test".

      One of the best teachers in my high school (we called him Mr. C) refused to teach for the annual state test in history, and everyone wanted to get into his class even though he was a tough grader. I learned more from him and felt better-prepared for college-level history courses than from all my other high school history classes, even though my score on the state test was not perfect (although still respectable). While other classes were memorizing facts that are only useful during Jeopardy appearances, Mr. C applied historical events to the modern world.

      The system we have now punishes schools that employ Mr. C's, because they don't produced the results on the state tests, and particularly in the areas of the test that require memorization of things like dates and names. This standardized test system ignores why we teach subjects like American History. This is a subject that used to be about something more than memorizing trivia.

  2. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Can't you do better propaganda than this. You don't have a clue.

  3. BillyDRitchie profile image59
    BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago

    Yeah, heaven forbid that kids actually be expected to produce results or anything.

    This is so setting them up for a rude awakening when they get out in the real world.

    Unless of course Mr. Obama intends on making it illegal for companies to expect results from their employees....after all that wouldn't be fair to the underachievers, and of course we know we have to make everything fair....

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What you mean that out in the real world people have to under go tests constantly!

      Hey Fred,today you won't be making any widgets on your lathe, we'll be testing your ability to use your lathe to make widgets!

      1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
        BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I was speaking of results, John.

        Apparently, you lack some results in reading comprehension......

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And so was I. Out in the hard world you produce results or you go under, you aren't constantly tested to prove that your teachers are doing their job.

      2. 61
        ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yes, that's where the future of a dynamic, growing economy and a vibrant workforce is to be found - in producing workers who can really handle a lathe with great expertise!

        Education needs to focus less on tests and results and more on lathe work!

      3. Aya Katz profile image89
        Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Good one!

    2. DonDWest profile image90
      DonDWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Great! Let's run a business by paper testing everything an employee does! I'm sure the customers will appreciate and understand when I explain were closed so the employees can undertake their daily multiple-"choice" exams.

      1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
        BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I am amazed at how the left misconstrues everything, so I'll explain it S-L-O-W-L-Y......

        Tests are the method by which results are measured in school.  Results are also expected when you enter the work force, even if they don't come in the form of a written exam. 

        Teaching our kids not to have to produce results in a manner specified by someone else does them no favors when it comes to integrating them into the workforce.

        Call, me crazy, but I actually think most of our friends on the left did not need this concept spelled out to them Dick And Jane style......

        1. DonDWest profile image90
          DonDWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So, because I disagree with you, you cry left, left, left? What is this "left" you speak of? The invisable hand of the boogeyman? Anyone who has read my hubs, and has an objective mind set, would have difficulty pegging me to a certain political compass.

          1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
            BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Don't know what side you fall on, don't care, as I've never even heard of you before this morning...

            I do know that typically, it's the left who try to run from being labeled as such....

        2. 61
          ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I've seen more than one person on this thread say - in effect - "Students are there to learn, not to demonstrate that the schools are teaching them!"

          This was posted, and defended, in all seriousness. Is there some backwards universe where this makes sense from which people can access the internet? If schools are not teaching the students, then the students are not learning, right? Indicators that the schools are teaching well and indicators that the students are learning would therefore be one and the same, right? Evidence that the students have learned something would seem to indicate that the schools have taught them something, and vice versa. It is shocking how readily some will sacrifice logic to avoid anything that even smells of responsibility or accountability.

          1. wychic profile image79
            wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sadly, the standardized tests do not prove that students are learning, or that the teachers are teaching their subjects well. What they indicate is that students are good at memorizing and have learned to be effective test-takers, not that they actually understand the subject they're regurgitating into the tests.

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Again, many of the countries notably doing better than us in education do NOT waste time with such gripes and excuse-making, and they rely on much higher stakes testing than we do.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Run that past me again, in English this time!

                1. 61
                  ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That was in English. Were you left behind?

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No, the words were English, the arrangement of them was anything but!

  4. kirstenblog profile image78
    kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

    Is the ability to pass a test really the only indicator of intelligence? And is taking tests the only way to gain intelligence?

    Only people holding Phd's need respond to that question assuming  the answers are all yes, cause thats the only way I know you have passed enough tests to give intelligent response wink

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The funny thing is that education edifies itself.  Specific measureable results are easy to feed funding organizations and secure the monies needed to keep going.  What is missed is the value of criticlal thought and its place in developing a rounded individual.

      NASA spent an incredible amount of money and countless man hours developing a pen that could write in zero gravity.  The Russians went to the supply room and sent a pencil up with their astronauts.

      1. kirstenblog profile image78
        kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And guess what happened when the little bits of graphite from the pencil led started floting about and wound up in the air filters and other critical systems? (all very sensitive bits of equipment that are kept painstakingly clean of all debris)

        1. kirstenblog profile image78
          kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not that I disagreed with the sentiment, mind you. It is just that that particular little gem about zero gravity pens being over engineering kinda falls flat on its face when you think about the damage a graphite pen would cause in critical systems. It is not a good example and I am somewhat pedantic about this sort of thing lol tongue

        2. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is true that they had some minor problems with the pencils and soon went to grease pens to eleviate the graphite issues but it was still a lot cheaper.

          1. kirstenblog profile image78
            kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think the point is, it needed thinking about. Now if test taking is the way to ensure the maximum number of people are capable of realizing it needs to be thought about then fair enough, test the heck outa dem der kiddies. If however testing produces results that are not significantly higher then other methods then it needs to be thought about, (maybe the people in charge spent to much time taking tests to learn to think things through a bit more? lol). I imagine that the ideal solution is to use the right method for each kid as individuals but thats a hard job and you know how people are these days when it comings to being asked to do hard jobs. lol sad

            1. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know about your area but where I live and where my children went to school standardized testing was beginning to take place a few years back.  The school system was deplorable and the kids were going to college at the same rate for a long period of time. 

              Then came the testing and the school system magically received blue ribbon awards for excellence and we later found out they taught for the test exclusively to garner the education funding they asked for every year.  Since then a serious drop in college ready graduates was found to be what they were turning out and guess what?  We had to expand our local community college to take the overflow of students needing remedial math and science to get into the four year colleges for their BA's and BS's.

              This is a joke and education dumps this mess on us every few years.  I can't hire the kids coming out of school because they can't think their way out of a paper bag.  I have found many that can't even figure out their paycheck.  I even had one kid who graduated from high school and couldn't even spell his high school correctly.

              The thrust on self esteem and testing has gone to far.  Do they have a video they can watch to get to the next step?

  5. Moonchild60 profile image85
    Moonchild60posted 5 years ago

    Kids today have no attention span and "boring" makes it worse.  I have a 12 year old with ADHD and he is very much like those not diagnosed with ADHD.  If it's boring it doesn't hold his attention so what is he absorbing?  Nothing.  So I tell his teachers that in order to keep him involved, involve him.  He does better with interactive learning. Let him be involved in the process.  It works for him.  Apparently at his school they have found this works for a great many of the children.  Keeping them involved keeps them from getting bored. Tests are boring and there is no way to make them otherwise.  Don't waste their time or the teachers time with boring tests.  TEACH THEM instead.  I am not saying don't test them at all, they need to be tested.  Just not so frequently.  They are busy learning.

  6. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    I have 3 kids currently IN school, and I completely agree with Obama!
    In fact, we have been after the administrators for many years not to cut the intellectually stimulating subjects, and the physically stimulating activities, and the creative arts, in favor of more learning how to memorize!

    This is awesome, to have a president I agree with.

    1. DannyMaio profile image60
      DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      you would agree with him on anything so that says nothing! our school system was great for years and now that others are passing us because THE PARENTS do not do there job we want to change what was great for centuries? you people are funny! and for Moon if your child has ADHD get him some medication so he can focus. Is it fair because you do not want to put your kid on meds that the rules have to change? My daughter has ADHD also and after the Medicine she has done very well!

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "you would agree with him on anything so that says nothing"

        What grades did you get in school?

        Maybe you don't read every thread, so you can't be blamed....
        Then again, why say something, like that,which is complete ass-u-me-ing on your part?

        I DO NOT agree with this excursion into Libya.
        I DO NOT agree with his compromising with those greed-balls on the right, giving them everything they want.

        I DO NOT agree with him that the Republicans have America's best interest at heart.

        I am ANGRY that he did nothing after Operation Cast Lead, and the flotilla murder of that young American kid.

        Want more?
        Or is that enough to show you are an assumer?

      2. wychic profile image79
        wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "Our school system was great for years"

        .....are you sure we're talking about the same US school system? You may want to look up the historical performance of our schools (generally ranking just above one or two third-world countries) before standing by that one.

        1. DannyMaio profile image60
          DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          are you saying in the 70's and 80's when i grew up the schools were not good? I beg to differ. yes now they are horrible.

          1. 61
            ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I think a lot of schools were much worse back then.

            1. DannyMaio profile image60
              DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              well I'm not going to argue over something I truly do not know. I grew up in NY and the schools were pretty good where I went. I really do not know about anywhere else. teachers seem to be much better at teaching then now. My wife was a teacher for 14 years and quit because of all the nonsense. I bought another house in my neighborhood and she runs a daycare out of it. she is much happier.

              1. wychic profile image79
                wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree that they've certainly gone downhill in the last 30-40 years (statistically speaking, I don't have the living memories), but compared to the rest of the world we were still performing very poorly then as well as now. Considering that we have more resources available to us than just about anywhere else in the world, this is just sad. One standardized test a year is reasonable, anything beyond that is further destroying what little the school system still has for learning value.

                1. DannyMaio profile image60
                  DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  No question we need to educate our kids more. maybe they should have a more thorough tests on the teachers and a longer period before tenure? also they should not have to worry about funding as if the schools students do not do as well they pass them anyway because they do not want to lose funding.

  7. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 5 years ago

    Kids today currently have more tests than any of us did. Standardized testing takes up about three weeks out of every year at least. This is due to the government structures that didn't exist before, mostly coming from the No Child Left Behind act, but also some state level initiatives.

    Anyone acting like children today have the same experience as they do are doing their children a disservice. They aren't "stupid" or "lazy" or "have no attention span."  They spend their time taking, retaking, and training for pointless tests rather than learning real world material, or at the very least, material that prepares them for the work ahead in college.

    It is a very different environment.

  8. BillyDRitchie profile image59
    BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago

    You know something?  I don't test well either.  Never have.  But that doesn't mean that the schools have to bend my way to make me a success any more so than my employer has to bend to make my job less challenging or more "interesting".

    Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you are told.  If testing is a part of life, then I'd suggest doing what the rest of us do and finding some way to do better in testing situations.

    What a nation of candy asses we are becoming.....

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose it depends on whether you want to produce people who are good at doing their job or people who are good at doing tests!
      When doing tests kids aren't learning!

      1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
        BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Boy, just when I convince myself that we aren't witnessing the dumbing down of our society, along comes a post like this one to convince me otherwise....

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ??? Dumbing down = more education and less testing! Are you really sure about that?

  9. TLMinut profile image59
    TLMinutposted 5 years ago

    Standardized testing is useful to a degree I think. The No Child Left Behind Act seems a bit unrealistic, some kids are not very smart! That's just how it is, why do we think it's so bad to say that? If someone needs a different kind of training, okay, find a way for that to happen; it doesn't mean everyone needs exactly the same thing.

    The testing gives teachers an idea of what they're working with and shows the kids and parents how well this type of education fits them. True, we should have a minimum standard for citizens in our country but I don't believe it's true that every single person can even necessarily meet the minimum.

    I've always been able to do well on tests, even ones where I don't know much about the subject. One of my boys could never pass a test though he was able to retain and use the information in real life. As long as the tests are one tool in a toolbox of assessments, it's a good idea to use them.

  10. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    It's just stupid! It's turning out robotons.
    Can't think, or dream, but can take orders and be good little worker-bees.
    Good little consumers.
    We want dreamers and thinkers and risk-takers!!

    NOT robots. 2+2=4...yeah, but WHY?

    1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
      BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You want dreamers and thinkers and risk takers to service a government that does its gut level best to discourage such?

  11. AnnCee profile image79
    AnnCeeposted 5 years ago

    I think kids should grade themselves.  Give the teachers more time to campaign for Democrats/

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well now, I always knew Democrat was the intellectually superior party wink
      Thanks for reminding me!

  12. TLMinut profile image59
    TLMinutposted 5 years ago

    QUOTE:

    NASA spent an incredible amount of money and countless man hours developing a pen that could write in zero gravity.  The Russians went to the supply room and sent a pencil up with their astronauts.
    lol  lol

    As for critical thinking and risk-taking, that's not what school is about. It's for learning the basics so you have a start and can use it to take the path that's best for you. What's so wrong with requiring certain basic knowledge of our citizens?

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "As for critical thinking and risk-taking, that's not what school is about."

      Says who?

      1. TLMinut profile image59
        TLMinutposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        That's just what I think about it. School is to get information quickly and easily, and I think it should only be a half-day, especially for boys.

        Real life is where you do the critical thinking because you have some information, try applying it in different situations, see what happens!

        When I say standardized testing is fine, I didn't realize people are talking about SO MUCH of it going on! Good grief! No recess, no music, no anything. If all children are to do in school is learn to read, write, and 'cipher', then it certainly shouldn't take up a whole day. I also don't think boys should be in school for more than a half day if at all between the ages of 13 and 15. They need to be being physically active and contributing to their community somehow, mostly they need to use some of that testosterone! Not sit demurely and sweetly like a little girl...

        1. wychic profile image79
          wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Hehehe...though I spent many years as a little girl, I never once recall sitting demurely and sweetly unless I was trying to convince the present authorities that I didn't do anything wrong tongue.

          I agree that school isn't for teaching risk-taking, but it most certainly should be for encouraging critical thinking. Why, exactly, are we expected to wait until college for that? If we want information, we can read a book or find it on the internet. Teachers offer us some guidance and instruction on what information is related to what, and how we can manipulate that information for practical purposes. At least, that was the main idea once upon a time -- now the teachers seem to be expected to guide students unerringly to the correct circle on a piece of paper which must be completely filled in with a #2 pencil.

          1. TLMinut profile image59
            TLMinutposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Encouraging critical thinking - okay, I guess that's just too general for me. It sounds like something that develops naturally as a child grows. In school, it turns into, "Think of this my way" and "Think the standardized way" instead of the child taking information he's taught and applying it in real life.

            Standardized testing should be done at most once each year. It used to be only in certain selected grades,don't know why that changed.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              But why standardised testing at all?
              Surely a kid who is going to spend his life in agriculture or a machine shop neither wants nor needs the same education as a banker or doctor!

              1. TLMinut profile image59
                TLMinutposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It's all about keeping options open. A child who wants to be a fireman in second grade, president in 6th, and an electronics engineer in high school is normal!

                For those who have no idea, they will at least be exposed to, and prepared in a very basic way, for whatever they decide eventually that they want to do and be.

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes indeed, but the teachers should be aware of the possibilities of any child becoming president or an electronics engineer.

                  Any way we agree that constant testing is not a good thing!

                2. wychic profile image79
                  wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree, one standardized test a year is the absolute maximum -- and yes, critical thinking does naturally develop as a child grows...unless it's actively discouraged, which is sadly the case in most classrooms now. There are also the children that do need a little bit of inspiration and guidance in order to really work at the critical thinking, and that's the kind of environment that an ideal school would provide. I know, I know, I must be dreaming again, the government wouldn't possibly allow, much less support, such an outlandish thing tongue.

              2. 61
                ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                "But why standardised testing at all?"


                Um, to have a STANDARD against which to measure and track the performance of schools, teachers, and students to determine the effectiveness of our educational system and thereby to address areas of deficiency and encourage areas of success, locally, regionally, and nationally?

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Then you assume that everybody is equal!

                  I thought that was supposed to be a lefty trait!

                  1. TLMinut profile image59
                    TLMinutposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Standardized testing doesn't assume everyone is equal.
                    Having a minimum standard is reasonable though - if most students don't meet the minimum, it shows quite clearly that something is remiss in the school.

                  2. 61
                    ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It assumes no such thing. The part that is equal is the test itself.

    2. DonDWest profile image90
      DonDWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "As for critical thinking and risk-taking, that's not what school is about."

      LOL, thanks, that made my day. I'll have to remember this quote.

  13. mikelong profile image82
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    As a teacher, and as a person who comes from a family of teachers, I absolutely agree that there is far too much standardized testing...

    It is not just that the districts are focusing more on these large examinations, but its also that the districts push these tests while undermining what teachers are doing in the classroom...

    These tests, in many cases, are thrust onto students without teachers even having advance warning of what is going to happen...  I remember a year ago, with no word, one day my students showed up to class just to have the day's lesson plan destroyed because word came from higher up that we would instead be administering a battery of standardized tests...

    I find it ironic that "conservatives" in this thread support the testing....

    They are against government "top down" micromanagement and manipulation, but when it comes to the classroom, the monolithic school boards know best?

    Hardly....

    Teachers need to have more freedom to engage with their students...and less time wasting tax dollars...

    I also agree that kids today are taking more of these tests that I did when I was their age....

    It isn't necessary....

    1. Teddletonmr profile image80
      Teddletonmrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If I may ask a question, who sells the schools all the tests? Like the vending machines in the schools, where will it end?

    2. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      As a teacher and a person who comes from a family of teachers, I do not agree that there is too much standardized testing.

      Bad teachers see accountability as a burden, and unprepared students see it as a threat to the "everyone is just as special!" nonsense they have been indoctrinated into over the past several decades.

      Good teachers know what is going on in their school, and good students who have actually been taught well can handle a test at any time without collapsing into a quivering mass of insecurity.

      Teachers and students need to be able and willing to demonstrate that they are fulfilling their roles and doing their jobs rather than just wasting taxpayer money on job security and glorified self-esteem and social networking programs.

      1. wychic profile image79
        wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And what about the students who are exceptionally well-prepared, and are expected to sit quietly while all the others "get prepared"? I had some great teachers and mostly very intelligent peers -- but when No Child Left Behind hit, the higher-ups didn't care whether we were already ready or not, they constantly instructed the teachers with still more drills on only the information that would appear on the next test.

        1. 61
          ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Would you prefer we do away with mandatory eduction? That way we could take all students who can't maintain a B average or better and just send them home. America would suddenly be #1 in the world in education.

          1. wychic profile image79
            wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I would prefer the school system stop wasting a student's time. Mandatory education or no, there are some children who will dig in their heels and WANT to be left behind. Those who want to learn should not have to suffer for it. And yes, I believe there is an argument against mandatory education, but that is an entirely different subject that's not even related to my comment, and would require such a huge overhaul of the current system in order to protect the rights of those who want an education, that it's likely to never happen in a way that would be beneficial to the overall education of children in the country.

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So what do you propose we do with those students you say WANT to be left behind?

              1. wychic profile image79
                wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Vocational school.

                1. 61
                  ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What if they don't want to go to vocational school, and/or WANT to be left behind there too?

  14. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    Exactly Mike...you get it wink
    They are not for freedom AT ALL!

    It's their way,or the highway. Period.

  15. lady_love158 profile image61
    lady_love158posted 5 years ago

    Of course! Why make kids take a test that's boring? Why not have kids pay someone to take the tests for him... sort of like Obama hiring Bill Ayers to write his books for him... writing books is well... boring!

    1. kirstenblog profile image78
      kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah and if Obama was writing his own book you would on here moaning like billy O over the fact that he is writing a book when he should be doing his job! Blah blah blah, more Obama hate from the Republican party spam patrol.

      1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
        BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I was moaning about him writing a book?  Really?  Wow......

        (I'm thinking Kristen is a tad confused....)

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Like Billy O  not Billy D! lol

          1. kirstenblog profile image78
            kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Well now thats just one of my favorite little sayings that I picked up since moving to jolly old England. Moaning like Billy O, is kinda fun to say wink

        2. kirstenblog profile image78
          kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You could always try reading the post I was responding to wink

          1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
            BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, posts are flying fast and furious, sometimes you just can't see a damn thing....

        3. kirstenblog profile image78
          kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          According to LaLo the kids will be hiring Bill Ayers to do their tests just like Obama is doing with the writing of his book

          1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
            BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I'm less concerned with the fact that Obama hired somebody to write his book as opposed to WHO he hired to write it....

      2. Teddletonmr profile image80
        Teddletonmrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe that is why obama  is always playing golf when something is boring him, is work, or a test.

    2. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Lady Love, you giving your rants about freedom a rest today?

      1. lady_love158 profile image61
        lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Why you miss me? Lol

    3. mikelong profile image82
      mikelongposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Lady....you mock my lack of "evidence" in other posts...but you come out with this whopper unsubstantiated...

      Unlike Bush, or yourself, Obama has a well-known and qualified resume....

      http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedail … ma-ha.html

      Debunk it.....

      As for who has been writing the Bush and Palin books.......

      1. 61
        ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Do you have a link to obama's grades or any of his work at Harvard? Maybe some papers he wrote or anything? His records from Harvard must be available, right?

        1. mikelong profile image82
          mikelongposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Harvard has them....  I would like to see you gain the positions Obama did....

          Can you debunk the link I left, Short Story, or are you simply being argumentative?

          I provided a link...how about you?

          By the way....far more is known about Mr. Obama than is known about Mr. Bush senior during his college years....

          1. 61
            ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "Harvard has them....  "


            Great. Do you have a link?

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hello? Hello?

      2. DannyMaio profile image60
        DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        that is an article tht was pro Obama where is the resume?

  16. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    Think the problem is that teaching has become teaching test preparation.
    http://www.aetr.org/

    1. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      In some places, for some teachers and students, that's a big step up.

  17. wychic profile image79
    wychicposted 5 years ago

    I usually don't agree with President Obama on most things -- but I couldn't agree more on this one. I was halfway through high school when No Child Left Behind hit, and all of a sudden my fantastic teachers had their hands completely tied and weren't able to teach. As soon as we finished one ridiculous test, another appeared on the horizon to prepare for. I've always been an excellent test-taker, never scored below the 99th percentile, but the complete shift in focus held every last one of us back. Even worse, the small school that I attended was already one of the top in the country, and they were counting funding by percent IMPROVEMENT in test results. Overall, for the entire school we were in the 97th percentile -- there was no realistic room for us to do better, but funding was desperately needed.

    I believe that excessive standardized testing, while being boring, is far worse than that. It makes the already-questionable education system extremely ineffective. Despite loving learning, I was not the only one who breathed a sigh of relief on graduation day -- at last, we can get away from the standardized testing and commence learning!

    Sorry, this is one of my pet rant subjects tongue.

  18. superwags profile image83
    superwagsposted 5 years ago

    Does the title really have to start "Obama says" rather than making this a general discussion about the relative merits and cons of testings kids in school regularly.

    We should take a leaf from the scandanavian's book and run education differently. The UK tabloids hammered the Danes recently for in a number of tests allowing the kids to use google. Well guess what. this is how the world works now!

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image74
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Obama says:

      Makes it more dramatic Wags  (I spose) lol

  19. 61
    ShortStoryposted 5 years ago

    Funny how in many of these countries that are pointed to as having greater success in education than us people don't seem to waste time worrying about whether or not learning what needs to be learned is "boring" or not. Not so much agnst over developing 'social skills' or considering 'self-esteem' as equal to academic performance. Not so many parents b!tching about how their sensitive little darlings have too much homework, or that rote learning is oppressive, or that the books are too heavy. Funny how that works.

  20. Mikeydoes profile image79
    Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago

    I strongly agree with our education system needs to be revamped.

    Once again though, I find this topic to completely not belong in politics. It is clear that us as parents and guardians can create ways for our children to learn without our gov't taking hand in it. Much like I say about many other topics including abortion..

    I for one can say that I learned two things from school, meeting all different races and finding qualities in everyone. AND also how to get around anything so you don't have to work. Especially since most of the stuff taught is useless(for me anyways). I rarely cheated and rarely paid attention, but was bright enough to do as little as possible.. and sadly that is not a joke, and in many cases its the trend.

    1. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You can't have government mandated and run education and NOT have politics involved.

      And if YOU got so little out of your education you need to take personal responsibility for that along with any other considerations.

      1. Mikeydoes profile image79
        Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Not only was everything you said uncalled for, you have little to no idea what you are talking about. You do not know me, or exactly what I did or didn't do in school. So back off. If you want me to run circles around you intellectually I will. Do I know you? Wait a tick...I don't care who you are.You are nothing to me. I don't need school to do that. Let us not forget that while most kids school days were 6 hour days, I was an all-star athlete leaving my house at 6am getting home at 6-8pm sometimes 10pm a lot of the time. 10 hour days were the norm. The only day I had off was sunday.. And that was if I wasn't on a trip for sports... I worked my ARSE off. So how dare you. You will never compare to me or my intelligence, and that is clear from your post. Don't ever come at me like that again. If you disagree with me that school is #1, that's fine, but the personal attack was more than unnecessary.

        You don't think I learned stuff from school? You are very mistaken. What I learned was how to deal with people in the real world, along with our school being a melting pot. Other than that.. ZILCH. If I spent all that time in school on something useful, I'd be way more ahead than I am right now.

        You need the government so you can learn.. ROFL, you need a wake up call and certainly learn about human nature. If you want the gov't to tell you what to learn and what not to, go ahead. I've learned that school has it's perks, but there are certainly better ways to go about teaching kids. Not all kids can do good in a school setting.

        Nearly every single person that I have ever went to school with cheated. In fact they cheated way more than me, since I rarely cheated. I didn't need to because I always had enough smarts to do well on the tests/quizzes.

        From 6th grade to 12th grade I did 0 sheets of homework and 4-6 projects at home. No one knew this but me, and my grade were extremely good for how much time and effort I put in to it(which was next to nothing when I was out of school). All the while missing tons of school for vacations and being sick, and also just not going.

        You say I need take responsibility for not learning anything in school. Whether I do or not does not matter. I am extremely intelligent, and all of the things that you say I missed out on and take responsibility for will do me little to no good. So how about you back off and try and mess with someone not out of your league.

        I will bet you any amount of money that School is not the best way to educate our kids, and in the future it will be revamped. They might send kids all to the same building, but I am willing to bet it won't be anything like it is today.

        I'm sorry I have to mention this again. You think the gov't has to be involved in us learning, you have a lot of learning to do. ROFL. Try school.. oh wait that didn't seem to help you much in that regard, maybe you should try something else!

        BTW genius. I was under 18, not even an adult. Meaning teachers, parents, and staff at the school were responsible for me. I just read another of your posts, you are a teacher. No wonder you are so against what I said.. lol. Too bad you don't realize that I am not against teachers and school, just the way they go about things and how we know nothing about the brain and how to maximize it. Something that school only exploits a little. As taking tests and stressing students out does not seem like the best method to me.

        Just like when I played sports, I am going to be extremely successful.

        1. 61
          ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          " You do not know me, or exactly what I did or didn't do in school."

          I only have your own words here to go on. They suggest exactly what I concluded.


          "If you want me to run circles around you intellectually I will."

          Please feel free. You seem to be stuck at a slow amble at the moment.


          "Do I know you? Wait a tick...I don't care who you are.You are nothing to me."

          That's just great. Thanks for telling me.


          "I was an all-star athlete"

          LOL. It is great to hear you declare that about yourself. Are you presenting that as an excuse for why you failed to get anything of value out of your education?

          "So how dare you."

          I dare, I dare!

          "You will never compare to me or my intelligence"

          I await any evidence of this, but whatever you say, champ.

          "the personal attack was more than unnecessary."

          There was no personal attack in my post.

          "You don't think I learned stuff from school?"

          You said it, not me. I was just reiterating what you revealed about yourself. And no, 'how to get along with people' doesn't count. You were there to learn, not socialize. No one ever told you that?

          "Other than that.. ZILCH."

          As I said...

          "If I spent all that time in school on something useful, I'd be way more ahead than I am right now."

          As I said...


          "You need the government so you can learn.. ROFL"

          Who said that? Not me. See, this is where it would have come in handly for you to have learned how to read in school.


          "Not all kids can do good in a school setting."

          Yeah, there's a word for that...

          "Nearly every single person that I have ever went to school with cheated. In fact they cheated way more than me, since I rarely cheated."

          So you admit that you cheated in school (in English class, it seems). You got nothing out of it but still needed to cheat? Impressive.


          "From 6th grade to 12th grade I did 0 sheets of homework and 4-6 projects at home. No one knew this but me,  All the while missing tons of school for vacations and being sick, and also just not going."

          You seem quite proud of being lazy and dishonest. Impressive.

          "You say I need take responsibility for not learning anything in school."

          Yes, you do.

          "I am extremely intelligent"

          I've noticed something about people who constantly declare that about themselves...

          "try and mess with someone not out of your league."

          What "league" would that be, champ?


          "I will bet you any amount of money that School is not the best way to educate kids"

          I can see why you'd need to believe that.


          "I'm sorry I have to mention this again. You think the gov't has to be involved in us learning,"

          You don't need to repeat yourself. Your failure of reading comprehension was clear enough the first time.


          "I was under 18, not even an adult. Meaning teachers, parents, and staff at the school were responsible for me."

          Ah, shirking personal responsibilitiy. I see you learned something after all. They made a fine democrat out of you.

          "As taking tests and stressing students out does not seem like the best method to me."

          Gee, you'd think a superstar athlete like yourself would have been accustomed to being tested and performing under stress (if that had been true). Did you only "exploit" a little of your body, fail to train because you were lazy, dishonest, and disinterested; pass off responsibilty onto others, and give up and make excuses during sports as well champ?

          "Just like when I played sports, I am going to be extremely successful."

          Um, yeah, all evidence points in that direction alright.................

          1. Mikeydoes profile image79
            Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I win because I get to report you and I'm not reading your garbage.  Don't need cranky people taking me down.

            Comment left in my WWE hub.

            "As if that fake wrestling nonsense wasn't stupid enough already. I can't believe there are enough dim-witted pre-teens and trailer park defects to make such silliness profitable."

            After I read this, I realized you are a huge waste of my time. Insulting millions of people for watching a TV program you don't like.

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "win"? What do you win? I wasn't aware there was a competition.

              "report"? Report what? Not sure what you mean.

              And, I don't think this is the place to discuss that silly fake wrestling nonsense. Maybe in the Entertainment section? I'd be happy to comment there if you like.

  21. Evan G Rogers profile image82
    Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago

    I'm teaching in schools. The tests that kids have to go through are the biggest, stupidest, and most idiotic wastes of money ever devised.

    Students in foreign countries get great grades on these sorts of tests *because they teach to the tests*. But then you ask them to "divide by zero", and they can't explain why their calculators say "ERR".

    "If no one gives no one else $5, then how much money does each person have?"

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image74
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly like the employment forms one has to fill out (mostly online) but not all.

      Psycological questions -gimme a break.

      When I asked someone once ,why is there so much repetition?. Their reply was ,the questions are cloaked but basically try to trip a person up,and that is necessary to find people with honesty and integrity.

      Oh so you want to get inside my head?

      ( I so want to say to human resoures, I got inside your head 20mins ago,exited ,bought a coke,and made it back in time for your 'team talk') lol

      1. OLYHOOCH profile image59
        OLYHOOCHposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If you show a person how to fish, they will eat for a day.

        If you teach a person how to fish, they will eat forever.

        OLY

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          !!!!!!.

          Dear boy, try give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life!

          You'll find it makes much more sense!

          1. 61
            ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              What?

              1. 61
                ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this
                1. OLYHOOCH profile image59
                  OLYHOOCHposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ZOOM, right over his head. Both of us.

                  OLY

                  1. OLYHOOCH profile image59
                    OLYHOOCHposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Short Story, You are the person that was suggested for me to get in touch with about, getting my Hubs to work or get them out.

                    I have tried three times an they all turn red, so, I understand I am doing something wrong and what ever I try to correct, does not work.

                    If you wan't to explain the process to me, step by step, I would appreciate your help.

                    OLY

                2. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Ah, ta for that!
                  You know I haven't spent my life hanging on to every word Bush ever uttered, in fact, I haven't spent very much time at all! But having said that, I should have recognised it.

                  1. 61
                    ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, you've missed out on some good stuff!

  22. Ralph Deeds profile image67
    Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago

    Testing isn't so much the problem, it's what's done with the test results that causes problems--e.g., using the results as a sole basis for firing teachers or closing schools and replacing public schools with private schools. Not surprisingly high stakes testing leads to cheating and isn't a magic bullet for improvement. Improvement comes from specific changes in the public school structure and process--class sizes, teacher education and qualifications, authority of the principal and teacher versus sluggish, low performing hierarchical central school administrations, etc. Tests can be useful as one indicator of where improvement is needed. They don't provide a guide for what is needed for improvement. Many factors, not just ineffective teachers, cause poor results. Firing teachers whose students score poorly won't necessarily bring about improved results. Neither will supplanting public schools with charter schools.

  23. melpor profile image88
    melporposted 5 years ago

    I agree with Obama. I think children do not need to be tested so often with standardized tests especially on an annual basis and for the sake of tracking school performances. Children are going to school to learn not to see how well schools are teaching them. This is one of the reason why there is an increase in the number of children in home schooling today. The schools are teaching children too much irrelevant information. Just teach children (in the U.S.) what they need to know and stop comparing them to what other countries are doing.This comparison was not done when I was going through grade school.

    1. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Would you like to reconsider this comment?

      " Children are going to school to learn not to see how well schools are teaching them."

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And your problem with that is. . . .?

        1. 61
          ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Seriously?

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, seriously. Do you want your kids to be educated or do you want your kids to be taught how to pass tests?

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Read the quote again (and think about what you just said).

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I read the intent in it, which was as I stated.
                Think about what you just said or implied, you think testing is more important than teaching!

                1. 61
                  ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I didn't say anything that could in any reasonable way be so interpreted. What is your motivation for trying to push that false claim? That said, think again about what both terms mean.

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, if it's a false claim, as you claim, that must mean that you agree with the original claim!

                    In which case, why did you challenge it?

  24. DonDWest profile image90
    DonDWestposted 5 years ago

    Here is my "experiences" with test taking "education":

    Memorize, regurgitate, repeat! Memorize, regurgitate, repeat! You MUST memorize this material! You MUST memorize this paragraph! Recite! Memorize! Repeat! Memorization failed, repeat, droning, memorize, you MUST memorize this material or you'll be labelled stupid for life! Memorize god damnit! Drill and kill! Drill and kill! Memorize! Memorization trumps all! Memorize! Fear! Intimidation! Brain washing! MEMORIZE! Why can't you memorize? It's now midnight and you still haven't memorized this entire book! Memorize!

    Congratulations, you managed to reach college, BARELY, by having your mind drilled with holes. Now, we'll hand you this 2000 page book, that will be 300 dollars please, and you WILL HAVE TO MEMORIZE IT ALL! Welcome to High School, version two! Why die once when you can die twice?! Let's play this game again! Memorize! Recite! Repeat! Regurgitate! You must memorize this material! Be a drone, be a good little drone! MEMORIZE!

    I'm dropping out, no more. . . Please, no more, mercy, mercy, mercy! No mercy for you! You don't have a college degree! You're a loser and must be sooooo stupid! Haven't you heard? You need a masters to get a job! Memorization is everything! What's this, you're resisting? You claim you've learned more about the world than actual college students by reading during your free time? Ha! Tests, tests, tests are everything in life! Punish the unbelievers!

    1. wychic profile image79
      wychicposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not to mention that if someone is particularly stubborn about school -- it's great for the colleges! You've graduated high school completely unprepared, and get to spend five years trying to get your first Associate's degree! Wins all around...unless you happen to be the poor student who has to bankroll and suffer through the whole mess.

  25. Onusonus profile image86
    Onusonusposted 5 years ago

    It's all part of the education system's goal to turn this nation to Communism. They have to level the playing field so that everyone is equal. The children get feel good selfesteem cirriculum vice the rewards of hard work.  But when they walk into the real world, which is a democratic socioty, they get slammed with the hard reality that self esteem in the work place comes from a quality work ethic, and you don't get any gold stars for trying but failing.

  26. NateSean profile image83
    NateSeanposted 5 years ago

    I for one agree. Too much testing doesn't prove jack about what the kid has actually learned. All it proves is that he can put exactly what the teacher tells him to on a piece of paper.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image59
      Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And why can the student do that?

      Because he learned the material.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "One thing I never want to see happen is schools that are just teaching the test because then you're not learning about the world, you're not learning about different cultures, you're not learning about science, you're not learning about math," the president said. "All you're learning about is how to fill out a little bubble on an exam and little tricks that you need to do in order to take a test and that's not going to make education interesting."

        Nuff said?

      2. NateSean profile image83
        NateSeanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe, maybe not. After all, the material is just words on a piece of paper.

        A history test is just dates and names, for example. A kid might know that the right answer for "What year did the Battle of Gettysburg take place" without knowing who died in it, why it was faught, or where the hell Gettysburg is.

        So he gets a hundred on the test because he knew allt he dates and names. But what did he actually learn? The history of the US, or a bunch of names and dates?

        1. Jim Hunter profile image59
          Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Or he learned everything there was to know about it.

          The point is he demonstrated that he learned.

          Fail.

          1. NateSean profile image83
            NateSeanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I agree. You fail to see the point. Epically.

      3. DonDWest profile image90
        DonDWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sometimes yes, most times no. Chances are he'll forget all that he "learned" two days after the test.

  27. mikelong profile image82
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    While Jim talks about the general "testing"...it is standardized testing that is the real issue....

    As for history...it is not just about names and dates....it is about the interconnection of diverse peoples over time..and a key fundamental to that knowledge is geography...

    True, if kids do not have good teachers...and it the youth are not motivated to learn, they may just learn (if they're lucky) the date of the Battle of Gettysburg....but in my world of teaching...any such learning would begin with maps and pictures...  The landscape is vital to understanding the evolution of history..

  28. Jim Hunter profile image59
    Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago

    I don't think its an accident that Obama would be against testing, it is in his and many other democrats best interest to have a more stupid electoral base.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Why?

      Please don't make such crass statements without any back up whatsoever.

      1. Jim Hunter profile image59
        Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this
        1. BillyDRitchie profile image59
          BillyDRitchieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Almost as good as this stuff.....

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19v5Kjmc8FI

          Listen close when the woman talks about Obama "gonna give it to us".....again, perfect example of the moocher class in our society....

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Very good Bill, no context, no veracity, just anonymous voices talking.

        2. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So? And republicans aren't stupid too?

          It doesn't explain why democrats should be against testing and, by inference, republicans pro.

          Compare with Bush who was supposed to be informed!

          1. Jim Hunter profile image59
            Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "So? And republicans aren't stupid too?"

            No, we are not stupid.

            We didn't vote for Obama because we knew what the issues were.

            We didn't vote for Buchanan in 2000 because we were smart enough to know B U C H A N A N  doesn't spell Gore.

            This seems to be a trait consistent with democrat voters.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Keep those goal posts moving Jim, yet another none answer.

  29. mikelong profile image82
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Jeff, it took a nation of ignorants to back Bush's invasion of Iraq...

    It is ongoing lack of knowledge that lets poor minds like Danny here on hubpages refer to Reagan as "fiscally responsible"...

    And it is poor awareness of institutionalized bigotry that blinds people to the flaws of standardized testing...

    While you deride me as a "liberal" (interpreted as "idiot", "clueless" and even "anti-American by so many of the deranged), I wish you could sit in on my classes....  I know who benefits from dumbing down the population...for not only does a stupid electorate wage war based on lies....but they also make good cannon fodder when big business sets its eyes on a new foreign target for exploitation...

    It pays to have a population who can be quickly riled against Islam....for they know nothing of the truth...

    It is even easier to then blame 15 plus years of economic mismanagement on the past two years of one man's term in office...

    It is a brainless electorate that then believes that the party crying out for "individual liberty" and against "encroaching government" that then calls for laws denying civil liberties to homosexuals..

    Hypocrisy....and it takes an uneducated and uninformed populace to not see it time and time again...

    1. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      More personal insults, and as an added bonus, the classic liberal "everyone but we self-appointed elites are ignorant slobs and we must save them from themselves!" Typical arrogant, presumptuous, delusional nonsense that gets drilled into the malleable and empty minds of the weak who enter into academia without enough character to hold on to themselves - much like those inclined to fall easy prey to any other cult. This particular cult administered by 'preachers' who are in desperate competition to prove who hates their own country and disdains their fellow citizens more, and who brook no deviation from a strict orthodoxy.


      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 740080.ece


      " Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English — they’ll learn English — you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." - O

  30. mikelong profile image82
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    The Black Hole...the blackest of black in the entire universe is trying to call out the pot.....

    I feel for you....

    S.S. are you trying to back Danny's characterization of Reagan as "fiscally conservative" or are you going to correct him?

    1. 61
      ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I'm trying to tell you that you cannot have a serious discussion if you keep falling back on childish personal insults. But then again you also can't have a serious discussion if you refuse to 'reveal' your own opinions and only answer questions with questions. Are you really interested in discussion here, or just insulting and pontificating?

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, was that post directed at Danny?

        1. 61
          ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, it was not.

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh! It read as if it should have been.

            1. 61
              ShortStoryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You were not reading carefully then.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Or too carefully perhaps! Only it seemed like a lot of things that could be levelled at Danny, especially the bit on insulting and pontificating.

                1. AnnCee profile image79
                  AnnCeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Gad, John. . .   This is getting serious  big_smile

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And this was before the serious grief he's now giving me because he can't actually follow a topic!

  31. AnnCee profile image79
    AnnCeeposted 5 years ago

    Based on his performance I had a sneaking hunch Baracky doesn't like tests.  Or being bored. 



    http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/wp-content/gallery/obama-satire/obama-sucks.jpg

 
working