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If you do not stop fighting between yourselves now...

  1. profile image0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago

    If you do not stop fighting over the small things now (religion, party politics, etc), this real fight will be over before you've thought about it.

    The freedom gained by generations fighting on your behalf for the last three or four centuries will be lost.

    http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/

    Do you know what Agenda 21 is?

    If not, why not?

    1. paradigmsearch profile image85
      paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The good news is that this P.O.C. was created 20 years ago and has apparently gotten nowhere.

      Here is to another 20 years! smile

    2. prettydarkhorse profile image64
      prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sustainable Development is mainly the balance between Population, Resources and Environment - PRE framework. Wise usage of resources so that we don't compromise future generation.

      I think that some nations didn't endorse it specifically the US during the Bush H W time, he said, "American way of life should not be compromised", or "The American Way of Life is Not Negotiable" meaning reduce usage of gas etc. If I was not mistaken, US want China to reduce coal usage first before they will sign the Kyoto Protocol. Most European countries went green and endorsed the Kyoto protocol then. Agenda 21 was done after Kyoto Protocol.

      Agenda 21 is a very useful framework for the preservation of natural resources.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image85
        paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        A voluntary, guideline-suggestion type framework sounds ok… smile

        1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
          prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          yes, guess it is more difficult to implement as it generally affects lifestyle.

          1. profile image0
            Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, it does affect lifestyle.

            I think the problem with saying something like, "It can never happen here" is that there are too many cases of 'famous last words.'

      2. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
          prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          LOL< That made me laugh out loud. the americanthinker.gov site views about it.

          Agenda 21 is the effort of representative/delegates from 178 countries who met in Brazil on 1992 which was commissioned by the The United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED). They came up with that 700 plus bluepring Agenda 21.

          The principle is good but it entails a sweeping policies/change which could change how we peruse resources and how to safeguard environment in general.

          This might be helpful in terms of what is the US position on global environment politics  - http://www.polisci.ufl.edu/usfpinstitut … hapter.pdf

          US participation or endorsement is imp as they consume so much of the world resources http://earthtrends.wri.org/updates/node/236

          1. profile image0
            Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            American Thinker... I'm playing devil's advocate over here... smile

            So, yes, the US traditionally doesn't want to change her lifestyle.

            So, what are the answers?

            1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
              prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know Angelique, all I know is that Aus and Europe are more compliant, they are greener.

              1. profile image0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yup. I'm peeved. I did this eco footprint test. Normally, my footprint is about 20% of what everybody else's is. This time it said that the earth would need 3.8 plants in order to keep me afload.

                I emailed them.

                Their reply?

                Well,you're living in America. Every person there is responsible for what is being used...

                1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
                  prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  everybody is held responsible for the gains of the few - is it like that?

                  1. profile image0
                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, yes.

                    When I was studying history decades ago at school, the teacher said, "The people of a country are responsible for the government of a country."

    3. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sophia:

      Down thru the ages, the "compassionate" facet of man's character has been naught but "idealism" to the nth degree.

      Man is man! He is a crafty creature filled with guile and deceit!

      His survival has proved this point.

      He has become so adept at offering lip service to survive and gain, that one must take his "mouthings" as propaganda in every sense of the word.

      For instance, the words of the "The universal Declaration of Human Rights" are deliciously warm and wonderful, but in fact represent "idealism" to the zenith!

      As man exists at this stage of his evolution, predation is too powerfully ingrained in his genetics to be sublimated into a more civil and sociable attitude for existing.

      Agenda 21 is a thoughtful, compassionate rendering of man's hope and desires...but, disgustingly, that's all it is.

      Fruition is impossible.

      Qwark

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        @Qwark.

        "predation is too powerfully ingrained in his genetics"

        For some more than others.

    4. lady_love158 profile image59
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes its another way to take money from people and control their lives. One thing is for sure if the UN is involved, its corrupt.

    5. AnnCee profile image77
      AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Always remember and never forget, there are more of us than there are of them.  http://www.msn101.com/content/emoticons/Suspicious_DXD5FP.gif

      1. Hugh Williamson profile image89
        Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this
        1. AnnCee profile image77
          AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Oh good, a stalker.  Daisy Khan thanked a hand for the World Trade Center Mosque site too.  Ahh fun times...

          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/46002

          1. Hugh Williamson profile image89
            Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/4842457_f248.jpg

            Then I guess we've settled the issue of who has "HAND?" hmm

  2. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    You going to make me look it up?

  3. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "So, what are the answers?" They are going to have to be socialist, which means honest government and commonalities of interests like air and water, and not criminal exploitation pitting everyone against everyone.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, it's essentially socialist.

      However, there's no such thing as truly socialist in a structure that they're planning. Essentially, the big boys at the top will be living it up and it will be much like communism. My thoughts for what they are worth.

      However, something does need to be done. We will kill ourselves off if we continue using the planetary resources the way we are.

      Yes, you do have to look it up. Tired of people commenting on things they haven't bothered to research... smile

      1. AnnCee profile image77
        AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hear hear!

      2. tony0724 profile image61
        tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Socialism and capitalism have one thing in common, there are a privileged elite few and then there are the worker bees who work to provide their comforts. Different names , same results.

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          @Tony. Two sides of the same coin. Same as Dems and GOP. Two sides of the same coin. It's the coin that has to change - not the side.

          I tried for years to make people put their thinking caps on and come up with a new system. To no avail, they are locked into their sides...

          1. profile image60
            ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            YOU tried to "make" the entire country move from the two-party system? Leaving aside the ridiculous arrogance inherent in that statement, how did you try to do that and why?

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              @Short Story. No, I did NOT try and make the entire country move from a two party system. You do rather read things into statements, don't you.

              I said 'people'. That's a general form and it can refer to any number of people. In this particular contest I meant the people around me. And I did not try to force them away from a two party system.

              I merely asked the same question over and over again, "What other system is workable, considering the numbers, the problems, the technology."

              1. recommend1 profile image71
                recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                You are totally wasting your time with shortstory - he is a forum troll.

                You are of course absolutely correct in pointing out that what is needed is a different way of dealing with things.  The virtual slavery of the mass is pretty much complete - right to the point where many of them think this is 'normal' and even try to defend their condition.

                1. profile image60
                  ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you for the personal insult. I'm flattered you would take the time to think of me.

                2. profile image0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for the info recommend1. )

              2. profile image60
                ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And what was your solution?

          2. prettydarkhorse profile image64
            prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Sophia and Tony, good day. It is us then who will change, not the economic system because after all we can change for the better  - civil coexistence (in the real world) or in the forum - civil discourse/debate.

            Could be also that "it is not the consciousness that determines the being, but the being is determined by consciousness". This structure of economy (our economic conditions) forced people to become what they are unconsciously.

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Prettydarkhorse. I'm not sure that everybody is conscious! smile

              I don't know the why's and wheretos.

              I just know that if we don't start living together civilly, then, because we have sufficient weapons of mass destruction, we will destroy ourselves.

              1. profile image60
                ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And when in history could we have not said the same? Yet here we are.

          3. tony0724 profile image61
            tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Tony. Two sides of the same coin. Same as Dems and GOP. Two sides of the same coin. It's the coin that has to change - not the side.

            Sophie in a perfect world with perfect beings that might be possible, but human beings are flawed. And no matter what the system there will always be some fighting for a little bigger slice of the pie. It is far beyond Dem and GOP. Utopia is not possible.

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              yes, there is that...

              smile

              But without the coin changing, we will destroy ourselves.

              I have always believed that religion arose as a means of getting the masses to be nice to each other so that they didn't destroy each other.

              1. tony0724 profile image61
                tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                But without the coin changing, we will destroy ourselves.

                I hate to be such a cynic but I think our destruction is well under way. Religion is not a factor , the duplicitous heart of humans is the factor.

                1. profile image0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, I think religion was trying to change the heart of man, but has failed hopelessly.

                  smile

        2. Sufidreamer profile image81
          Sufidreamerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          smile

          1. tony0724 profile image61
            tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you Sufi. How ya doin ?

  4. lady_love158 profile image59
    lady_love158posted 6 years ago

    The answer is America has to take what's ours before we are rendered too weak to do so!

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      But why do you need any strength to take what is your's?

      Surely you only need strength to rob!

      1. lady_love158 profile image59
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Might makes right! Lol

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So you're saying that you think you are entitled to any damned thing in the world that you want!

          Hmm.

      2. profile image60
        ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If you don't realize that it takes strength to keep what's yours you are not living in the real world.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There is a world of difference between taking and keeping.

          1. lady_love158 profile image59
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            2200 years ago a devastating drought hit Egypt which ended pyramid building and the rule by pharoes it affected the entire region north africa and even italy and greece and lasted more than a decade. People were starving to the point where they were eating their own children as they sought refuge with food and water.
            Do you think Americans will sit by and suffer without adequate energy supplies when we have the might to take what we need?
            I'm afraid even the socialist left would rather have heat than be held hostage by some 3 rd world nation with more than enough supply.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And you claim never to have said anything distasteful!

              1. lady_love158 profile image59
                lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Well that's just reality. The libs want to create a dependency class where everyone relies on the government for their needs. What happens when the government can't supply them with their needs? We have seen what happens in Greece, London and WI with demonstrations and violence. When people are self reliant and responsibile for their own well being they adapt. The libs want dependency and chaos so they can seize power and better to have the power to keep people dependent than not,  no?

                1. profile image0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Lady Love. Not the dems do NOT wwant dependency. They want the opportunity to earn an honest living. And that is NOT what they are getting. Laws have been legislated so that big business gets it all. They shouldn't be entitled to tax loop holes. Nor should they get away with a lot of what they are.

                  This country has the least labor law to protect workers. Everywhere else in the world one gets paid leave ranging from three weeks to six weeks per year. Here one has to work oneself to death or starve.

                  That's what I mean about virtual slavery. The laws of this country need to enable people to earn a decent living. Then there wouldn't be a need for dependency.

                  1. profile image60
                    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    dems don't want dependency? You're kidding, right?

                  2. profile image60
                    ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Got a link to some proof of "the least labor laws to protect workers"? I imagine, 'protect' means something different to you than it does objectively, but anyway...


                    And thank you for the example above that emoting and economics don't mix in a way that produces anything practical.

                2. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  What rot!

                  It's the right who want us all to be mindless automata.
                  You are a classic example of the thoughtless followers that they require.

                  1. tony0724 profile image61
                    tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Actually John she is right on the mark.

          2. profile image60
            ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Depends on what side of the equation you are standing on.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yes oh self appointed representative of the rulers of the World.

    2. Hugh Williamson profile image89
      Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's hard to believe that any genuine American would make a statement like this. This again raises the question of who you really represent on HP.

      Every post you make is designed to showcase the worst side of the U.S.

      Tell me I'm wrong.

      1. lady_love158 profile image59
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Lol! Sometimes I just can't help myself!

        1. Hugh Williamson profile image89
          Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's far less than funny.

          What's the agenda?

          1. lady_love158 profile image59
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Really you people shouldn't take everything I post so seriously! Can't you tell when I'm just pulling your chain? Lol!
            There sure is a lot of hate for me here!

            1. DTR0005 profile image85
              DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I agree.. I rarely take you seriously.... wink

            2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
              Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "Can't you tell when I'm just pulling your chain? Lol! "

              No, I honestly can't. You say so many distasteful things earnestly, it's hard to tell when you say something distasteful as a joke.


              "Really you people shouldn't take everything I post so seriously!"
              Oh, don't worry, that's not going to be a problem....

              1. lady_love158 profile image59
                lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I've never said anything distasteful!

                1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
                  Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  lol you slay me!

                  ...oh, you weren't kidding about that, were you?

    3. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      @Lady Love. I'm not sure I want to dignify that comment with a response.

    4. Doc Snow profile image95
      Doc Snowposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Done, and done again.

      Also a bunch of stuff that arguably isn't/wasn't 'ours'--including the land comprising the US and Canada, all of which was taken by force and/or guile.  Well, as I said, it's 'done'--history now, and no more.

      But adjurations to America to 'take what's ours' are--breathtaking.

      And, IMO, the only thing that's likely to render America 'too weak' is the contempt of, and disregard for, physical reality and the science that describes it most accurately, which is displayed and promoted by certain America ideological groups and corporate interests.

    5. Pearldiver profile image86
      Pearldiverposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What Sort of Arrogant Statement is that? hmm

      No wonder NZ kicked that sort of BS Rationale in regards to your nuclear warships out of OUR 200 Mile Exclusion Zone, when you were still in disposable nappies!  roll

      Amazing... and Ignorant big_smile

      1. profile image60
        ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Please don't pretend that New Zealand doesn't exist as an independent, sovereign nation at the pleasure of those far more powerful and significant. Be proud of your beautiful country, but don't be unrealistic.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          As Pearldiver said "Amazing and arrogant"

          1. profile image60
            ShortStoryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Just realistic.

  5. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "It's hard to believe that any genuine American would make a statement like this." So do I have to be a genuine American to post around here?

    1. lady_love158 profile image59
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Some people act like America is the only country in the world!

    2. Hugh Williamson profile image89
      Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not really.

      But it helps if you can tell BS when you read it and if you know you're being played.

      1. lady_love158 profile image59
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Awww... I sorie

  6. Hugh Williamson profile image89
    Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago

    The internet is now the most powerful tool there is to promote anything. Including an agenda.

    It has become so common that it has a name, "astroturfing."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

    1. lady_love158 profile image59
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah that's what Pelosi called the Tea Party... I'm pretty sure we can all agree she was wrong!

    2. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      @Hugh. That's fascinating. Thanks for the link!

      1. Hugh Williamson profile image89
        Hugh Williamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You're welcome. When people sign up to HP just to tweak noses and not to write, I always wonder about their motivation.

    3. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hugh. Ironically, I am just in the throes of writing an article dealing with this. Thank you for the link. Didn't know about it.

  7. profile image0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago

    Oh, and just in case you forgot... something we should be preparing for...

    Instant ice age!!!

    http://www.kubby.com/GlobalStorming/index.html

    1. Amanda Severn profile image91
      Amanda Severnposted 6 years ago in reply to this


      Amazing! Hollywood has a vested interest in making films about extreme subjects like the sudden weather shifts in '2012' and 'The Day after Tomorrow'. Cinema goers just love disaster movies. However, so called weather experts prefer a more cautious approach. That is, until the rug gets pulled out from beneath their feet! Truth is, nobody wants to hear bad news. Isn't that exactly how the financial collapse happened three years ago?

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It's nice to be an ostrich... put one's head in the sand and it will all blow past you....

        Um. no.

    2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Funny you should say "Instant Ice Age." I discovered a film called "Absolute Zero" while researching an article about movies and cocktails that go together. It's about exactly that: the Earth getting flash-frozen. Ludicrous.

      By the way, the matching cocktail is called an Absolut Zero. smile

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        @Jeff. I don't know how accurate the science is on that. But it was on the History Channel. I've read about Elf Transmitters before and they can do certain things.

        The last ice age did hit so suddenly that it killed all the dinosaurs. There have been various theories. The earth fell of its axis. A major meteor hit. Some things we will never know until it's too late!

        Case in point. Japan built sea walls for tsunamis. Only they were for earthquakes for  7 on Richter scale, Nobody considered a 9!

        1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
          Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, I mean, flash frozen. Not geologically sudden, but like boom! Instant Earthsicle, no waiting.

          Also, the last ice age was long after the dinosaurs were gone.

          1. profile image0
            Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Jeff. Okay, gotcha.

            How many ice ages were there? I distinctly remember reading up about dinosaurs (or something) being frozen in their tracks with berries still in their stomach. The food that was in their stomachs was from a completely different climate zone.f

            What am I confusing??? smile

            1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
              Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              How many ice ages were there?

              About five. The last geologically significant one happened during the age of mammals, and that's when critters like woolly mammoths and saber-tooth tigers and such developed. (Cave men, too!) This is the one people are usually talking about when they say "The Ice Age." There's been talk of a mini-ice age that happened during the Tudor dynasty in England. Global temps took a wee dip, but not deep enough or long enough to get glaciers across Europe again.

              Interestingly, some climate scientists believe that global warming will result in a localized ice age in Eurasia, as the melting of the polar ice shifts the Gulf Stream, the (relatively) warm flow of which keeps Northwestern Europe mild in the winters. Only time will tell if they're right.

              I hadn't read that about dinos being "frozen in their tracks." Do you recall the book's title? I can believe it, though; all kinds of strange stuff has been found with dino bones.

              1. profile image0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Jeff, thanks for the info. I should know this. (Did a geology class or two.)

                No, I can't remember where I read it but it was a while ago. In fact, I've read quite a few references to it over the years. I'm wondering, though, if I got the species confused.

                I'll try to google it! smile

 
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