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61 arrested in France

  1. DannyMaio profile image60
    DannyMaioposted 5 years ago

    Curious if everyone thinks Paris is wrong for banning Muslim Veils? Just seems very odd that you go to another country and refuse to obey their laws? If you do not like it why not go back where you came from? If it was so great why did you leave? looks like another step to enforce Sharia law to me. any thoughts?

    61 arrested over banned Paris Muslim veil protest
    AP

         
    By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press

    PARIS – Police on Saturday arrested 61 people — including 19 women — for attempting to hold an outlawed Paris protest against France's pending ban on face-covering Islamic veils, a top police official said.

    Fifty-nine people were detained while trying to demonstrate at Place de la Nation in eastern Paris, as were two others while traveling there from Britain and Belgium, said Nicolas Lerner, chief of staff for the Paris police chief.

    The arrests come amid in a rising, if small, groundswell of controversy over Monday's start of an official ban of garments that hide the face, which includes Muslim veils such as the slit-eyed niqab and the full face-covering burqa. Women who disobey the law risk a fine, special classes and a police record.

    The demonstrators rallied in defiance of a ban of the protest ordered Friday by Paris police on the ground that a Muslim group's call for the rally was "clearly an incitement to violence and racial hatred," said Lerner.

    "The demonstration was not banned because of the practice (among some Muslim women) of wearing veils, but because of the speech," he said, adding that Jewish groups and others had planned counter-protests — raising the prospect of public disorder.

    Most of the would-be protesters were released after being taken to police stations, though six remained in custody — mostly on suspicion of being in France illegally, Lerner said.

    The two would-be protesters who had tried to arrive from Britain and Belgium were known to French authorities. Police were under existing orders to stop and expel them, if they tried to reach France, Lerner said.

    Lerner identified the man who had traveled from Britain as Anjem Choudary, the head of Islam4UK until it was banned earlier this year by Britain's government for glorifying al-Qaida. Several people associated with the group have been linked to terrorist acts.

    The protest was called by a group known as Unicite Tawhib, which has been linked to Internet sites that call for Islam to dominate France and the world, Lerner said.

    Secular France has been in the throes of a debate about the role of religion in its society. Many Muslims have felt stigmatized by a 2004 law that banned Islamic headscarves in classrooms and during the intense debate that preceded the adoption of the face-veil ban last year.

    The measure forbids women to hide their faces in public places, even in the streets. Violators could face a fine of euro150 ($215) or a citizenship course — or both. Anyone found forcing a woman to cover her face risks a year in prison and a euro30,000 fine ($43,000), and possibly twice that if the veiled person is a minor.

    Authorities estimate at most 2,000 women in France wear the outlawed veils. France's Muslims number at least 5 million, the largest such population in western Europe.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think the authorities are right.
      It's getting pretty bad when people can use their religion to hide their identities.  Might as well let people walk around in face masks without ever questioning them.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image80
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      whenever government does anything it's wrong.

      they have to pay for EVERYTHING they do through theft.

      Thus, they're wrong.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Keep asking for a list of countries whose governments are supported by voluntary contributions. How will that system work? 

        What about cheapskates who insist on using government services but won't pay a dime?

        We all find the concept interesting, though detached from reality.

        1. Jim Hunter profile image61
          Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "What about cheapskates who insist on using government services but won't pay a dime?"

          Like women who get knocked up because they won't use birth control?

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image66
            prettydarkhorseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You know what Jim, in some countries, women can't say no to men
            specially when they are drunk (which they usually do after a days work in the farm or elsewhere) and don't want them to use contraception. To these women, satisfying their men is a duty, it is true. Even if they don't want to get pregnant, they don't know where to avail, they use herbals etc., and when they get pregnant, they use different ways to abort the baby risking their lives more. Maternal mortality rates are high in these developing countries.

          2. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            . . . . .It takes two to tango, Sir, so any man who knocks up a woman is equally responsible.

            1. Doug Hughes profile image60
              Doug Hughesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You people misunderstand the point my friend Jim was making.

              He's concerned with the lack of access to contraception that might have happened if the teabaggers had prevailed in defunding Planned Parenthood, an organization many republicans defended.

              1. Jim Hunter profile image61
                Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Do you really think that planned parenthood is the answer to the problem of teenage pregnancy?

                If you do (and you do) you must admit they are horrible at preventing teenage pregnancy.

    3. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And where do you go back to if your family is from France? If indeed France is your country?
      Do a little bit of history before you let your mouth run away.
      Oh, and how exactly does it look like another step to enforce Sharia?

    4. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think that it is far overdue.  That Europeans have tolerated Islamic bullshit in their own countries for so long is amazing.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps it's because we don't just pay lip service to freedom of expression but actually try to live it, not just for the chosen few but for all.

        1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
          Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes.  I thought that toleration of Islamic nonsense should have ended when the cartoonist was murdered in Holland years ago.

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So,a very small percentage of Muslims murder, they're all guilty!
            Tell me, why doesn't that work for Christians as well, it wouldn't be hypocrisy would it?

            1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
              Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I hardly think that I implied that, but you get a half a kudo for trying.  I'm not aware of Jewish or Christian persons who've murdered there daughters for apostate seeming actions,  nor am I aware of Jewish or Christians who have murdered a cartoonist. . . EVER!

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Kudos is not a plural and kudo is not singular.

                Just because you are unaware does not mean that it doesn't happen and probably you're right, no Christian or Jew has ever murdered a cartoonist but they've murdered plenty of others.

                1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
                  Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh thanks so much for the grammar and spelling lessons. . . .Yes, killing seems to be something spread across the human races. . .but nobody kills for as ridiculous and asinine a reason as do members of the Islamic Faith. . . .and corporations seeking to please Mammon, a different blood drinking God altogether.

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    That might be you belief but it is not one everybody shares.
                    Some might say killing for oil is pretty asinine.

  2. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 5 years ago

    Don't you have a dog to kick or an aged relative to antagonize? Perhaps you could just turn up your stereo and annoy the neighbors.

    1. DannyMaio profile image60
      DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No sorry I don't, unless you want to be kicked?

      1. Will Apse profile image91
        Will Apseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You have told us all we need to know about your mind set.

        1. DannyMaio profile image60
          DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I think that goes for you. your the one with the sarcastic remark. If the subject matter is too hard on you, you should not have left that remark. It's news and obviously the French have their view on the matter.

        2. Ralph Deeds profile image70
          Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Mindset requires a mind to set.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Watch out you don't get banned again. lol

            These guys are pretty ignorant though. This argument is all about the Muslims flexing their political muscle. Or at least trying to. France is mainly Catholic and has stupidly allowed a great swath of Muslims to come and live here.

            The tension is rising, and this stupid ban started out as a swimming pool.

            France has "hygiene laws" against wearing loose clothing in a public swimming pool. A girl was prevented from entering a pool wearing a burka. Why anyone would want to try swimming in a full burka is beyond me, but - the next thing you know, the Muslims are crying "persecution because we love ALLAH!" and the things are now banned in France and Italy for "security" reasons. An Italian Muslim was fined for wearing one a few months back and her husband publicly stated he would no longer allow her to leave the house.

            Religion. sad Making an item of clothing illegal? Good grief. sad

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
              Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this
          2. DannyMaio profile image60
            DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            you certainly do! so If someone does not believe as you do, they have no mindset? the links you provided were of a beautiful arab woman who won a beauty contest. OK so what is the problem with that? She is stunning! I also would have voted for her. so does this mean you do not want them to wear veils? I have no problem with Muslim people, but when you get to this religious type of group is when problems start. If your in someone Else's country respect the laws. It is for everyone's safety.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              This is not Someone Else's country any more. Roughly 10% of the population is Muslim - many of them born and bred here. The fact that they are getting political and claiming persecution is typical of religious groups.

              Personally - I do not want my government dictating what I may or may not wear. These clothes are typical religious BS, which I despise - and I tell you - these women do not smell great either.

              Rather shocked you want so much government interference in your life. I hate it myself. Can I wear a red shirt or will it look like I am a commie? lol

              1. prettydarkhorse profile image66
                prettydarkhorseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                must be so bad during summer!

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
                  Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The camel got his nose under the tent!

                  1. prettydarkhorse profile image66
                    prettydarkhorseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    When I went here in the US,  I brought some "sarong" - wrap around skirt and dresses - batik which I used to wear when I do household chores and go outside the house when I was still in Asia.
                    I still use them here in the house, seldom when I go outside, only when I would like to move faster as it gives ease.

                    of course when you move to a certain place, you carry with you some practices and for me, I think one time when I went outside wearing it, everybody is looking at me so I need to change some wardrobe. They are hot during summer as well, but I still wear them inside the house.

                    they are convenient, you can move freely but you need also to consider weather. You can also style it whatever you want like the skirt. But for Moslems, it is tied to their religion, so it is different.
                    Importantly, these are only dresses, what is inside the heart is more important.
                    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/4899106_f248.jpg
                    these are batik sarong which you can style - - wrap around akirt

                    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4899107_f248.jpg

  3. secularist10 profile image89
    secularist10posted 5 years ago

    They're not wrong if the ban is motivated by legitimate public safety concerns. If, however, it is motivated by prejudice toward a particular religious group, then it's wrong.

    Not sure what you mean by "enforcing Shariah law," but I don't think that's going to happen in France any time soon! lol. Secularism is one of the pillars of national identity.

    Oh, imagine no religion...

  4. AnnCee profile image78
    AnnCeeposted 5 years ago

    In Turkey, since 1997, women are not allowed to wear hijabs in public buildings, universities or schools.   I have heard in Turkey that they are also not allowed to wear them to the workplace.  Same in Tunisia.   Up until recently anyway the desire of Turkey is to be a secular nation first.

    I've seen websites where Muslim women discuss how to control men from perving them if they are uncovered.  It is pretty sickening the way they stare.  Maybe Muslim men should be forced to wear blinders instead and stoned for staring at women.

    1. secularist10 profile image89
      secularist10posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Excellent idea!

      It's amazing how our societies seem to function coherently with all these women showing their hair all over the place, isn't it? I would expect car accidents, riots, terrorist attacks... oh wait, that's what happens in the Muslim countries... huh, that's interesting... smile

  5. kirstenblog profile image79
    kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

    All I can really say on this topic is that I would not choose to live in a country that legally regulates what I wear, period. I would not be happy being told I had to wear something for any reasons nor would I be happy living somewhere where I was forbidden from wearing something. As a woman I can dress myself ya know wink

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I remember a cartoon which showed two Burqa clad women sitting on a park bench watching crowds of scantily clad women pass them.

      One says to the other "it must be terrible to be a western woman, forced to display their bodies for the titillation of men"

      1. kirstenblog profile image79
        kirstenblogposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Well here's a burka for ya wink
        http://www.liberal-vision.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/burka.jpg

      2. DannyMaio profile image60
        DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        so I guess you agree with the cartoon? so now you think you know what is better for France? They say it is for Security reasons, If they were born in France there is a very good possibility they do not wear Barkas. they would not have all the pressure of the Sharia Laws in middle eastern countries. They refused to give a woman here in the states a DL because she would not take off her veil. How would the cops or authorities know this is the right woman when stopped? maybe they can use the same just eyes pic for someone else to come to a country illegally. I also believe it is banned in banks! and I agree with them! Normal Muslims would not have a problem with this

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Whilst I agree that if a woman wants a DL she should be happy to show her full face, but this isn't about that and it isn't about going in banks either.I rarely if ever actually go inside a bank, I have no reason to.
          No, it's about that great American shibboleth, freedom of expression, it obviously means far more to me than it does to a lot of Americans (and French).

          1. DannyMaio profile image60
            DannyMaioposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            wow I'm actually shocked you agree that they should show their full face for a DL or to enter a bank. I will not get into you not going into banks because this is usually necessary to live live, maybe not going as much with the internet and modern technology but I still go every week or so to deposit etc... I personally do not care what they wear outside as long as there isn't any threat. I do not believe this would really be a subject if we did not have all the terrorist actions we have seen. And yes most are sweet!

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Gulp, Danny and I agree! lol

  6. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    I don't see many burkas, but when I do I like it. But they won't look at me. They carry prejudice ahead of them, like that I disapprove of them. But I can tell they are so sweet.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I see quite a few where I live and I tell you, it's quite a buzz when you realise that the woman is flirting with you smile

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My Islamophobia ends under the sheets. . . .!!!!

        The sad part of this is that in the end, the woman is murdered for "honor" by her brothers or father, for becoming too "Westernized."

        Then I go to prison, for murdering every male in the family.  Bad deal all the way around.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Dream on in your little fantasy world.

          It may happen very occasionally, honour killings are rare enough to make the national news,

          And don't try to suggest that similar despicable acts have never occurred in your culture.

          1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image94
            Wesman Todd Shawposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            What, exactly, is "my culture?"  I'd like some explanation on that one.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Your culture, the state of being American, the accepted practices, the norms, the mores, the experiences.

  7. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 5 years ago

    "Like women who get knocked up because they won't use birth control?"
    Or men who won't use rubbers.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image61
      Jim Hunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      absolutely.

      Them too.

      But, I wasn't talking about men who don't use rubbers.

      I was talking about irresponsible women who have sex without using birth control (or demanding their partners do) and then seeking the governments assistance as the new "baby daddy".

  8. superwags profile image81
    superwagsposted 5 years ago

    I'm uncomfortable about women being forced to wear veils, however I'm even more uncomfortable about countries banning it under law.

    The initial post is so entrenched in bigotory that I almost didn't justify this thread with answer, but sod it.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But many wear the veil from choice.

  9. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 5 years ago

    It doesn't take much to bring the old pathetic hatreds and fears to the surface does it?

    I live in a town which is 25% Muslim. If I drive North or South for an hour I will be in majority Muslim cities.

    Is that any kind of problem for me or anyone else? Of course not.

    Some people just need monsters to scare their children with and targets for loathing that has its origins much closer to home.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Which Country do you live in? wink

  10. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 5 years ago

    I wouldn't expose the women of the country I live in to your insults Mark.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Good grief. sad

    2. iantoPF profile image87
      iantoPFposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That is just rude.

  11. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 5 years ago

    Danny, firstly, what has that got to do with the topic, and secondly, a right wing journalist writing for a right wing rag doesn't impress me at all.

    Oh, and there is no such newspaper as the "London Daily Telegraph"

 
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