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For all you deficit hawks

  1. Pcunix profile image89
    Pcunixposted 6 years ago

    Oh, cut, cut, cut - you know you love it.

    I just happened to come across an object lesson from the 70's:

    This is from http://www.northropgrumman.com/analysis … -Trans.pdf

    For example, in 1979 the program was
    restructured following funding cuts by the Office
    of the Secretary of Defense (OSD). From 1980-
    1982 the Air Force zeroed the program budget
    only to have OSD reinstate the funds.

    Additionally, the program experienced periodic
    critical reviews by the General Accounting Office
    (GAO) and the Congressional Budget Office
    (CBO) on behalf of the Congress. 


    What program was that?  It was called NAVSTAR then, but it became what we know today as the system that makes GPS navigation possible.

    Rather important, and of course even getting to the point of having funding trouble would have been impossible without that useless space program..

    Of course the budget hawks had no idea how important GPS would become to our military, to surveying, to construction, to safety and to our individual convenience - but "no idea" is a pretty good summary of all of you anyway, isn't it?

    1. canadawest99 profile image60
      canadawest99posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well when you are in emergency and everything has to be out on the table. 

      its like one of those episodes of hoarders - do you give up your stuffed frog collection to keep your home.

      U..S. is insolvent, it borrowed from 20 years in the future to fund the expectation of limitless GDP growth, now the bill is due.

      1. Pcunix profile image89
        Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Increase taxes on those who have the money.  And please don't bother to sing the "they produce our jobs" or "why should they pay more?" nonsense.

        We could solve all our problems in a year if we really wanted to, though 5-10 would make it less painful on those who suffer from having too much income.

        But you won't understand that, so why do I bother?  As I said, no ideas and no clues about anything. Just the same old right wing junk we always hear.

        1. canadawest99 profile image60
          canadawest99posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Nope, I am not a tax cuts for the rich advocate.   What the U.S. needs is a 10-10-10 program. 

          - 10% increase in taxes for everyone including corporations
          - 10% across the board cut in programs including medicare, SS and military
          - 10% tariffs on foreign imports.

          Wow I could be president

          1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
            weholdthesetruthsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            That won't come anywhere near fixing the issue.

            1. Moderndayslave profile image59
              Moderndayslaveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What will?

              1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
                weholdthesetruthsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                A 45% reduction in spending.   That doesn't solve the overtaxation problem, but it does balance the budget.

                1. Moderndayslave profile image59
                  Moderndayslaveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I am for that  but now for the hard part, Where?

                  1. recommend1 profile image71
                    recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Shut down two thirds of the military across the board, withdraw from every country you are involved in, shut down two thirds of the CIA and the FBI - and use the get out of financial jail card that Japan and China are lending you to create an industrial base to employ all those redundant people.

          2. uncorrectedvision profile image62
            uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Good recipe for a global depression.  Review the impact of the Hawley-Smoot Tariffs.

            1. Moderndayslave profile image59
              Moderndayslaveposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And what is going on now?

              1. uncorrectedvision profile image62
                uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Much the same.  Government delusion that market place is amenable to manipulation and regulation always ending in disaster.

        2. sn53Anon profile image61
          sn53Anonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You do know, don't you, that socialism has *never* worked anywhere it has been tried? Sometimes, way sooner than expected, you run out of other people's money. I *really HATE* you socialists.


          LOL. You are a cowardly, thieving, idiot.



          It is always good to hear from those who have zipped right past socialism straight to tyranny. Bravo! Bravo, I say.

    2. weholdthesetruths profile image61
      weholdthesetruthsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are you attempting to say we should always keep our military budgets intact?   

      Or are you making the fallacious argument that everything government spends money on turns to gold?   

      Either way, I'd suggest you get a bit more serious if you want praise for your rhetorical nonsense.

      1. Pcunix profile image89
        Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        No, I'm simply pointing out that cutting without the brains to judge value is a recipe for disaster.

        We would be far better of to raise taxes on your favorite rich folks before cutting ANYTHING.  Not that there are never things to be cut - but that other very important programs get cut by clueless fiscal conservatives.

        I'm done with this.  I've made my point and find it near impossible to remain polite when I have to deal with responses like yours.  That you don't agree is quite understandable.  That so many  others are in agreement with you is beyond sad and honestly approaches downright frightening.

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image61
          weholdthesetruthsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Federal spending = very little of value.     We squander trillions by cycling it through the federal government and it bothers you none.    So, please don't talk to me about making value judgements.   

          For instance... Social Security...   16% of your earnings.   You don't own it.   You can't keep it.   If you die before you collect, it's lost.   If you do live long enough to collect, it's so small it's absurd.   

          If you just saved it yourself, you'd be wealthy at retirement.   

          So, why do we do SS instead of intelligent use of money?

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Would that include those who didn't earn enough to save?

            1. DannyMaio profile image60
              DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              IT GETS TAKEN OUT ANYWAY! so if they took that same money and banked it they would have a lot more then you actually get if you do live that long. If they didn't put in they do not get anyway!

      2. Alexander Pease profile image62
        Alexander Peaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Wehold, If the United States were to cut our budget for the military then it would make the US vulnerable to outside attacks. People respect us because of our military.

        Oh, and that is not fact, that is logic speaking. Facts are not needed where logic resides, because logic is an understand that anyone can get on their own, (if only they pay attention to the world around them).

        1. Maembe profile image61
          Maembeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not true at all.  Facts beat logic every time.  Logic is based on what you know, facts are not.  A long time ago it was logical to believe that the earth was not round. 

          How would the US be vulnerable to an attack?  Who would attack us?

          1. Alexander Pease profile image62
            Alexander Peaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I never claimed which was more important but, you are right. Logically speaking, facts beat logic every time. But, you may not require certain facts, if said logic, is common knowledge. That is the point that I was driving at:

            That the if the military spending was cut, then we would be more vulnerable to our enemies.

            1. Alexander Pease profile image62
              Alexander Peaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Also, we are in three wars right now, we HAVE enemies.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And if you invaded my country then you'd have even more enemies!

                1. uncorrectedvision profile image62
                  uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I can, however, think of a couple of good reasons for invading the British Isles(to include Ireland.)  One, some very fine whisky(ies) and beers.  Two, some very fine women.  Three, some very fine scenery and fourth, I want an Astin Martin and I don't care how I get one.

          2. DannyMaio profile image60
            DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            YOUR KIDDING.....RIGHT?

        2. recommend1 profile image71
          recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I missed this little gem earlier !

          Force does not engender respect it creates hatred - logically.  You come to my place and I will lock you in a shed and beat you every day with a chain over a few months - when I let you out you tell me how much you respect me !

          Logically - it is the military itslef [that appears to be running the US currently] and the destruction that logically goes with them that logically creates the counter-attacks on the US and its interests.

    3. sn53Anon profile image61
      sn53Anonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I love Northrop Grumman. And I love what GPS has become. It is important to the stakeholders to make the case for an unproven technology. There are relatively few winners (as GPS is) and many losers.

      So cut away.

    4. profile image59
      C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh the irony. Your example is the ONE place D's and Lib's like to cut. However your primise is valid, lot's of government funded research, done mostly by contractors produces GREAT tech advances.

  2. profile image0
    jerrylposted 6 years ago

    Raising taxes?????  cutting spending?????

    Where did you people learn about economics under a debt monetary system?

    The truth is, that if we quit borrowing, our system begins an immediate collapse.  Money is created when debts are incurred and money is extinguished when debts are paid.

    No money is created to pay interest on any loan under this debt system, so when we are forced to borrow to create money, we are always creating a debt greater than the debt money supply.
    Exampe:  If you borrow $100.00, at 10% interest, you are creating 100 debt dollars, but have created a total debt of $110.00  Multiply this process by billions of loans, and you can see the problem.

    Under this system, we must borrow in order to have a medium of exchange.

    If you have money in an IRA, 401K, pension plan, savings account, checking account, pocket, wallet, etc., etc., you could not possibly have that money unless someone else in this system, either individually or collectively, borrowed and spent that money into circulation, making it available for you to capture through commerce.  That money is the debt principle of someone else's loan!  Example:  I borrow $100.00, and spend it at the grocery store where you work. Your boss pays you with the debt principle of the loan I spent into circulation, which he captured through commerce.

    If all loans were paid off, we would't have one cent left in circulation, but would still have massive debt!

    The difference between wealth and money is that you cannot spend wealth until it is converted into money.  There are only two ways to do that. A person must either sell some of his wealth, or borrow against it.  Either way, if the amount is large enough, the bankers will usually get their interest collecting glommers on someone.

    When government borrows and spends it in, they are creating debt dollars.  You and I have to pay that debt in higher and higher taxes.

    Whe businesses borrow, you and I pay their loans and interest in the higher prices they charge for goods and services, (cost of living).

    Raising taxes or cutting spending will solve nothing!  The way money is created and how it gets into circulation is where the problem lies.  Earning money and spending it in rather than borrowing at interest, is the way to go, but we would have to get rid of the federal reserve and it's fractional banking debt monetary system. All the rest is smoking mirrors and BS.

    1. Jed Fisher profile image86
      Jed Fisherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Wow! So very few people understand the concept of debt-based money. I thought maybe I was going crazy, and was about to make an aluminum foil hat for myself. Just need to say "Thank You," I'm grateful to all those suckers who took on debt so I can have money.

      1. profile image0
        jerrylposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Jed, It is hard to tell whether you are being facetious or not.

        Those suckers you talk about, had no choice.  Think about it.

        Money has to have an origin.  Your employer didn't always have it, and neither did you.

        All the information I based my post on was received from the U.S. treasury, and the federal reserve.


        Some friends of mine wrote to the U.S. treasury and asked "how is money created"?
        The answer they received from Russell L Munk, Asst. general council of the U.S. treasury was that "The actual creation always involves the extension of credit from private commercial banks".

        They then wrote and asked, "If all money is created through loans,  where does the money come from to pay the interest on the loans"?

        The answer they received from Mr. Munk was that, "The money needed to pay the interest on all other money, comes from the same source as all other money".

        With the government, it is the same.  Congress borrows through bonding and other debt instruments.  This borrowing is on the American people's credit card.

        The bankers hammered out the original federal reserve act back in 1910, on Jekyll Island Georgia.  However, the legislation wasn't adopted until 1913, under suspicious circumstances.

        If you do a search on our nation's indebtedness from the inception of the fed, you will find that we have gone continuously further and further into debt. 

        It is common knowledge that the first 4 or 5 months of the average man's productivity is sucked up by government in one way or another every year.

        Just servicing the interest on our growing national debt will soon become unmanageable.

        If you add up total debt, which includes government debt, corporate debt and personal debt, it comes to around 60 trillion.  Add to that another 60 trillion in unfunded government obligations, and you can imagine the dire straits we are in.  This doesn't even take into consideration the derivative
        debt that's out there.

        The interest on this debt, grows 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

        If you have any debt at all, you are one of those suckers!  If you have a mortgage, car payments, credit cards, etc., etc., you are in the same boat with those suckers.  I have a credit card, so I am occasionally one of those suckers. 

        When  congress passed the federal reserve act, they actually made the majority of the people financial slaves to the fractional banking debt system.

        If you read up on the history of the fed, you will find that Senator Nelson Aldrich, arranged for the bankers to meet in secret, for the purpose of conjuring up the fed res act.  Nelson Aldrich was the maternal grandfather of Nelson Rockefeller.

        Two of the bankers present at that meeting were J.P, Morgan, and Paul Warburg.  What is strange about those bankers meeting in secret?  They were competitors.  Competitors meeting to form a money cartel.  They succeeded.

        Hope this helps people understand.

        1. Jed Fisher profile image86
          Jed Fisherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I hear you, brother. The Fed balance sheet, the measure of how many dollars the Fed actually printed, is about 2 trillion. The total amount of US Dollars, globally, is 900 T. That includes 600 T of international banking derivatives. Money, leveraged 450 to 1. The Euro? Every single Euro is backed up by one US (euro) dollar. But, Euros cost 1.35, but the Euro Dollars that back them, cost 0.98. (Wow, somebody is getting rich off that scam!) The Fed has about 8,000 metric tons of gold to back its reserve notes, otherwise known as cash money. As per Adam Smith's advice, I'm debt-free and in good health.
          For some light reading, anyone can check out the Bank of International Settlement web site. (bis.org) Good stuff, totally transparent, very helpful.

          1. DannyMaio profile image60
            DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            anyone can check out the Bank of International Settlement web site. (bis.org) Good stuff, totally transparent, very helpful

            Yes everyone should check that out! good job.

        2. DannyMaio profile image60
          DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You are totally correct! the problem is these socialist can not see the truth if it hit them in the face. They should read Modern Money Mechanics, should explain everything, but they won't they believe what NPR and Msnbc tells them! they do not know how the fractional reserve system works. It is like talking to a brick wall. Nice post.

  3. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "then we would be more vulnerable to our enemies."
    Cave dwellers no doubt.

    1. Alexander Pease profile image62
      Alexander Peaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am not ready to tell you how many things are confusing about that statement... SO:

      The US is currently in three wars, as I have already stated. They are still in the Iraq war, they are engaged in Afghanistan now, and we have started a war in Kenya.

      Our enemies, by rudimentary thought, would not be cave dwellers. They would be people like terrorist bombers and people of a stealthy nature.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And what have all those three wars got in common?

        Answer, all three countries have been invaded by the US and UK.

        Do you really expect such behaviour not to make enemies?

        1. Alexander Pease profile image62
          Alexander Peaseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I would be surprised if the United States did not make enemies, and am in no way endorsing what they did or did not do.

    2. uncorrectedvision profile image62
      uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      In asymmetrical warfare a cave is a very good place to plan devastating attacks.

  4. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    New memo just out today from the 'freedom of information act', "Plans to exploit Iraq's oil reserves were discussed by government ministers and the world's largest oil companies the year before Britain took a leading role in invading Iraq, government documents show." What I am saying is these are your enemies.

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      100%

  5. profile image70
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    But it was okay when we bailed Europe's ass and several other countries ass out, how many times?  Then rebuilt friend and foe alike on the backs of the taxpayers of this country.  Sure sounds like and evil empire to me.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A slight difference there, you bailed Europe out once and that was in the face of an active enemy who was actually invading and occupying other countries.
      If you had been as willing to muck in with WWII as you are to invade other countries today then there may well have been less need to rebuild the European economy.

  6. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "Then rebuilt friend and foe alike". There alternate theories of history on this. One thing is clear; after WWII, all the world's industrial economies had been destroyed save one, wherein the US became a world empire. US still has military bases in these foe's rebuilt countries.

  7. thisisoli profile image58
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    I think that there should be increased taxation on the rich. For a while I was for a flat rate tax, after all a percentage means teh rich pay more inherently.  However someone on this site directed me towards some economics books which I read, I also dug out some case studies, and historic examples.  It seems that while flat rate seems fair to me, it generally ends up with the rich becoming disproportionately rich.

    I think that the rich need to be taxed at a higher percentage.  I also think that stricter regulations and enforcement of rules need to be put in place to prevent the huge amounts of tax evasion which occur.

    Danny - Who are you expecting to invade your country, the Vikings?

    SN53 - Socialism works in moderation, after all who pays for your roads, your schools, your fire department, your police force?  Who pays for your army?

    While I would agree that complete socialism does not work where it has been tried, and I don't think it would work, the political scales are far from black and white. There needs to be a balance between providing for the people and giving people the incentives to succeed, for themselves and for the country.

    1. DannyMaio profile image60
      DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, we don't have to worry about Iran, north korea, Most of the middle east. nobody would want to attack. Please.

      1. thisisoli profile image58
        thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Why would they want to attack you, please, unless maybe, just maybe, you attacked them? Embargoed them? Threatened them?

        1. DannyMaio profile image60
          DannyMaioposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe because they don't like America? Have you watch what has happened the last 20 years or so?

    2. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My mom told me yesterday that she read an article about the 5 happiest country's in the world.
      Denmark
      Sweden
      Finland  all made the list.......

      We in USA, are kind of like a caste system, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

      Happiness is for those who can afford it.

    3. sn53Anon profile image61
      sn53Anonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Okay. So you are a thief. Got it. You are anti-American, for our founding documents protect property whereas you would plunder it.


      This is the root cause of tyranny.


      And this is why soft tyrannies become hard tyrannies with full prisons, rape rooms, torture and murder.


      Are there no illegal Mexicans? Where did they all go?


      Well no. It really doesn't.


      Perhaps you do not understand. Or maybe the term is not entirely useful. How about statism?
      I do not disagree with paying taxes. I disagree with paying taxes for things that are not constitutionally based.

  8. Moderndayslave profile image59
    Moderndayslaveposted 6 years ago

    I posted this somewhere else but it bears repeating here. The working class built and fought for this country and the financial and ruling classes destroyed it.

  9. optimus grimlock profile image60
    optimus grimlockposted 6 years ago

    those are those lil hawks that are half the size of regular hawks. There really fast and cute lol.

 
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