Minutes ago I read an article that said the portion of the brain responsible for understanding the future consequences of present actions is not fully formed until age 25. Given that should we immediately raise the voting age to 26?
I have two daughters. Both voted for candidate Obama. One thought it would be "cool" to have a black president. The other could not be bothered with politics so she voted for the "young guy".
They are both idiots. They are both young. They have a part of their brains not yet fully formed. They will both pay a price for their votes, as will all young people who so willingly vote into office the instrument of their destruction and enslavement.
if understanding consequences takes until age 25, forget Voting, raise the Drinking age..!
And bar liberals from voting at all, no matter what their age
Then we might have a chance to get back on track.
Seriously, I do think your suggestion might be a good idea.....
Dude, I have read your posts...you haven't got a clue what is going on, and how old are you?
I am 58. You and I disagree on nearly everything. That is okay. I am right. You are wrong. We can still have a wonderful conversation.
Cute. I'd love to, but when your points are dismantled, you leave the discussion. If you and I are going to converse, which I love doing, then you need to man up when you get beaten, and not just move on to the next rant.
No doubt you refer to your point by point refutation of my positions on economics. Do not fear. I am accumulating sufficient evidence to either confirm your position or invalidate it. I spent about an hour this morning. I will be sure to seek you out and invite you once the article is posted as a hub.
If that ever happens I will thank you for convincing me that a view I hold is not the correct view. First and foremost, I seek truth. So let's give this some time to play out. There are no good agreed upon histories yet of the eight Bush years. So fact checking is appropriate. And the one term president Obama's numbers are shrouded in obfuscation. So it is taking a bit of work to lay out the facts we might be able to agree to.
Awesome my man, good to hear. Enjoy the journey. Hopefully, we'll become debate rally buddies. I hoped you were a seeker. Seek out sir! I'll talk to ya later.
I would like that as well.
LOL. What is the fun of being brilliant if one cannot occasionally change one's views or position?
Look up the Securitization Food Chain too. That will spill out how the crisis happened. It will tick you off even more than you already are. Also, check into the relationship between the SEC and regulators of virtually every industry, and the parties that are being regulated. Rolling Stone has a great article on this one that will lead to many others. Fun stuff man. It will crunch your skull when you get into it and linger for weeks...more and more opens up. We are not in good shape brother. The house is built on cards.
What kind of a father focuses on his political position above his family, calling his children idiots? Wow! Christmas must be great at your house...shouldn't you be concerned that they will abandon you because of your unyielding ignorance and mean spirit, leaving you to die alone in an old folks home, trying to talk to the checkers? Enjoy the pudding buddy
They think I am pretty awesome. As their brains mature they are discovering that I am right. They have both, individually, told me how much they appreciate me. And it gets better every year.
Both have told me they will take good care of me in my final years. You are probably still unformed. Give it a few more years. Once your brain is complete you will begin to realize I am right. I promise not to hold your youth and incompleteness against you.
Awww....thanks Buddy. I am 34, but still. You know, oddly, when I was a kid until I was around 22, I was a die hard conservative, worked campaigns, VP NT College Republicans, Lincoln Day dinners, had lunch twice with then House Majority Leader Big Dick Army, etc....it took a bit of time to realize quite the opposite of what you are spouting. Maybe, just maybe...you need a little maturing to get to the point I am at. I started with a library card. Want one?
A library card is good idea. I wore out several growing up as an Army brat. In my house I have between 2 and 3,000 books of the old-fashioned paper kind. In addition I have another 10K books of the digital sort (Project Gutenberg).
I have a reading plan, a burn down plan, that will get me through another 1200 books before I die.
I think I am fine on the reading side of the equation. I have lived 24 years longer than you. I have 20 years in the Army. I did alright. Maturity? I have enough. Wisdom? I am always looking for more.
I find it interesting that you want to take responsibility away from someone. More or less, that is what you are saying.
Raising the age to vote, makes no sense. The only thing you've managed to tell me, is that there is a huge freaking problem in this country- if kids are aging faster(or more) than they are developing? Then, I would think that would be a more important issue to address.
The voting age has been the same for a long time. No reason to change it. Being 18 and adulthood, seems to lost among people. Kids are not raised good enough. More crime than you can shake a stick at. Just a bunch of misfits, walking aimlessly down a path they cannot even see and accepting it? Yet, they cannot even accept their own damn neighbors.
Pathetic is the only word to describe it.
I want to shield the nation from the consequences of unformed brains. Perhaps a charlatan like the immature, amateur president we have today would not be in office, damaging the nation every day if we did not have incomplete idiots voting for incompetent fools.
Well, your post said it all. You simply don't like the results of those who voted for President Obama. You raised your children hopefully to think on their own?
Even after the brain is fully developed gives no guarantee that it will make sound choices. Look around.
We send our 18 years old to war.
The voting age should remain at 18.
demographics of 2008 presidential race- only 18% of voters 18-29 voted. 66% voted for Obama. The 45-64 age group had the highest number of voters with only 37% voting. 50% voted for Obama. http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/electi … ed_08.html
So about 2/3rds of those with unformed brains voted for the one term president Obama.
Are those good groupings? Is the raw data available? I would like to do slice the data in different ways to see if other insights might be gleaned from this disastrous experiment with Marxism.
You can take a look at different data.
http://www.google.com/search?q=demograp … =firefox-a
I think anyone can take any data and see whatever it is they wish to see. Studies show that peak cognitive abilities take place between the ages of 30-40. After 40 there is a decline, especially if the brain isn't being fed optimally and exercised.
But the brain is elastic and can expand to take in new information at any age. The key is to make it work differently which means we need to change the ways in which we make judgments and decisions according to the circumstances.
I do like Texas's reference to Rolling Stone. I've been reading it since I was a teenager, some decent investigative journalism.
Nice search. I love this:
Do you think all those wealthy Northeastern Jewish people will be supporting the one term president this time around?
Do you really think the those highly educated Northeastern Jews are one-issue voters, and that their one issue is Israel?
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Might I suggest that the real problem lies with your apparent lack of competent parenting skills, and not with the girls at all. Secondly, you should start by holding yourself accountable for raising these idiot children, and quite blaming someone or something else for your failure. That's a start....
You are the said parent of these girls, are you not? Well then, why did you raise idiots? As a parent of a teenager, I blame you for this.
And........., to think that you want the American taxpayer to foot millions of dollars to raise the voting age to 26, all because you read an article, and because you did a crappy job at raising your own kids. Now that's the typical mentality of a Republican.
My wife and I assumed all along we would be poor parents. We didn't have very much. We did awful things like read to them. One of their favorite memories was of me quizzing them as I read them Sherlock Holmes stories. My oldest daughter told me recently that she thinks that is why she is such an excellent reader. I think it was because I offered to buy them any book they would agree to read. Both girls had large libraries.
See above. Mea culpa.
Also see above. Mea culpa.
Is it better that the nation perish? That is clearly liberal thinking.
Good. And let's raise the age one has to be to enlist in the armed forces to 58. Because by that age one has a better idea of his own mortality.
get rid of voting altogether and just let people decide what they want with their money.
If you hate living in a society so much, go to the New Guinea man! Live with the natives and trade shiny trinkets.
My man...think hard now...if we went to the society you want, no rules of law except the market, then are you sure you can compete? You see, that nice shirt you have on in the picture, well you better know how to throw those fists and defend a take down, because with no rule of law...I am taking it from you, and your house, and your car, and your cereal...because I like cereal. That is, me and about 2000 people waiting outside your nice house with bats. You can throw out Ron Paul slogans while the crowd raids your neighborhood. Welcome to Pre Civil War buddy
I think the US Constitution, dusted off, used once again will do quite nicely. The post-Constitution era we find ourselves in where there are no limits on government always leads to tyranny. We are seeing it today.
I have heard that before, but phrased as the logical, reasoning part of the brain that was late in developing.
If that is true there is much that the younger people should not be doing, including drinking, driving, voting, and serving in the military. Of course, that may well be why they make better soldiers!
action and interaction are the only way humans learn to make better choices...trial and error.
if anyone thinks they are not still learning, no matter what age they are, then they are not being honest with themselves!
Learning is like a leaky faucet; you can't shut it off completely, but you sure can turn it down, and too many people do just that.
When we find a drunk driver we "explain" it to them, with harsh punishment as a backup. So they do it again and we "explain" it again with harsher punishment. So they do it again and we "explain" it a third time, with ever greater fines and jail time. So they serve their time, get out and do it again.
The faucet is closed as far as it can get.
We can provide some other means of thanking them. We do not need to allow their incompetence to destroy this nation. We can shield them from their incompetence until they are completely formed. That way the nation will prosper and they will greatly benefit.
Allowing them, through their incompetence, to vote an equally incompetent, equally immature almost-adult into the presidency is a disaster.
Hope and change? Sounds good to a kid. Not so much to an adult.
But how old is your incompetent, immature president?
What's that, over 50 you say!
Sort of blows your argument out of the water doesn't it.
No. There will always be charlatans who will take advantage of the "useful idiots", as V.I. Lenin called them. For some people arrogance and immaturity last a life time. Fortunately the one term president Obama is unlikely to damage us for a second term.
Mr V, it sounds reasonable and obvious that the voting age should be raised in light of our advancing scientific knowledge but there's so much more to consider:
Younger adults may not have a fully functioning brain capable of making good decisions (or at least not as good as they will eventually be able to). What about the older adults who will never get to the point these youngers are at already - even with unfinished brains? Did you hear and see people's arguments before Obama was elected? And this isn't restricted to only the Obama election obviously but it sure was made incredibly clear.
I'm sorry you had to discover that about your kids, glad you have hope that they may still 'grow out of it' but you'll have to face that they may never do so, and that many others never will either.
Naw, they are both amazing young adults. And they are coming along quite nicely as their brains become complete. :-)
You two are perfect examples of dysfunctional adult brains, pointing the finger...I love the cartoon.
Don't know what you mean here but I still defend the point that age is not the only thing to take into account when it comes to voting. If people are legally responsible for themselves, they should have the right to vote.
I pointed out that many people don't have the sense to make good choices but that's the way people are. Who gets to say "you don't get to vote because you're not smart enough" or "you didn't make a good choice"? There will always be people making ridiculous choices no matter what their age.
Then you come to the matter of the one claiming that someone else's choice was wrong and absurd just being wrong themselves. Wrong can be subjective.
A little over half of the eligible adults voted in the last U.S. election, and this is in itself a disgrace. I would think a voter with an incompletely matured brain chooses more wisely than the one sitting home on the sofa.
The voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 because of the Vietnam war, when drafting those under 21 was common. If you're too young to vote, you're too young to die in a war begun by mature adult's.
I'm guessing that a lot of these young adults do vote conservative anyway. It's an issue of fairness, not politics.
If you believe the article that you read, then sex between adults will have to be postponed till age 26, anyone's first beer will not officially arrive till 26, and a whole lot of other things that only adults can do won't apply till they are 26. That includes serving in the armed forces of several countries...am I right?
The current trend around the rest of the REAL world is that the age of Voters is being lowered...not raised to 26. I won't ask what the name of the publication is, what's the point.
I would not believe everything I read. Sounds like someone flying a kite to me. Cheers!
While I was growing up, the age was 21 to vote. Any speculation about why it was lowered?
The most convincing argument at the time was that anyone old enough to be drafted to die in a foreign war is entitled to a vote for the leadership that will commit to that conflict.
Almost. Tricky Dick ended the draft AND lowered the the voting age...both became effective in 1972. Further, the attempts by that admin to acheive peace w/ Viet Nam had, by that time been successful. Ground troops were being drawn down, and no new troop deployments were being implemented. Still, lowering the age was the only way HE could be re-elected...and once promised, he was too afraid of not fulfilling his pledge.
I enlisted in late seventy two, primarily because of that.
The larger issue is an attempt at voter suppression. It stinks.
States are cutting back on early voting.
They are passing draconian laws which restrict voter registration linked to high penalties for minor infractions. Example - The league of women voters will NOT be conducting voter registration in Florida. The only state and the first time this organization has bowed out. There are discussions about restricting voter rights to property owners - not renters.
As the OP suggests, conservatives are hunting for ways to disqualify anyone inclined to vote liberal. This should frighten 90% of voters.
A less drawn out horse race is always way more interesting and exciting. At the very least, the News outlets shouldn't be able to report results until all the voting is done. Even the possibility that it could affect voter turnout or an election should be cause for concern.
:-) I understand. Democrats always get nearly the entire illegal vote. Combine that with the public sector union thug vote and it is hard to even consider a fair election. It is a shame to take such a valuable tool away from the liberal, democratic, party.
So if we're going to withhold the right to vote based on brain formation, it follows that there should be a lower voting age for women than men. As we all know boys mature slower.
So how about we keep 18 for girls and raise it to 26 for boys?
Meanwhile, if we're so concerned about mental capacity, how about we institute a "voting competence" test for old people.
You know, like the DMV requires the elderly to prove they are still competent to drive.
I personally like this idea, as old people vote more conservatively, especially on education-related issues.
LOL. What a great idea. More like 24 for girls and 26 for boys.
There are many possible solutions. I have two that I like. One is based upon IQ. It ought to take three digits to play. The second is taxes. If you cannot prove you are paying taxes then you cannot vote in that election. So those who pay no federal income taxes would be excused from voting. That way those of us who do pay will get to decide.
Another thought I had is to get a number of votes based upon how much income tax one pays. I pay 40,000 in federal income tax so I should get 40,000 votes. But not for an individual. I want to vote on line items in the budget. Let each of us have one vote for each dollar. Then put each line in the budget online and let me vote one time for each dollar of federal income tax I pay. Give the taxpayers 30 days to vote. Then rank order the line items according to the total number of votes received. Seem fair?
Another novel approach.
But I fear it could end up having unintended consequences (assuming your goal is to tilt the vote Republican).
What about people who pay very little (or no) income tax because they have a boatload of deductions?
Wouldn't your approach actually penalize them rather than give them more votes?
The whole idea is to defeat the 'one person - one vote' concept.
Remember in the original Constitution, slaves counted in determining population, but were denied any vote in politics. In the new order, fat cats want us as consumers and cheap labor. But they are terrified by representative democracy.
One paying person one vote.
It is the current Constitution. Counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person was intended to prevent the south from having more representatives, thus making it more difficult to end slavery.
I think a republican form of government under a Constitution that is being followed is a peachy keen thing. But we are beyond that now. Government is not limited. It's powers are absolute. And part of the reason why is the almost half of the population that receives far more in benefits from big government than it pays for.
I suppose if an unemployed person doesn't want to become a homeless person ( living under a bridge with their children) they should pay taxes equal to their benefits.
Basicly, that's what you are suggesting.
I don't know if that is what I was suggesting. I was explicit that only people who have a stake in the outcome should be allowed to vote. A means to determine whether or not one has a stake in the outcome is proof that the appropriate tax was paid.
I wasn't thinking of a tilt. That may be a side benefit. We are doomed when we invite people with no stake in their government to vote.
This has two parts. Income taxes paid = opportunity to vote for the candidate of your choice. Quantity of income taxes paid = opportunity to weight the line items of the budget in order to identify those things people want.
I think that voters should have to pass an I.Q. test with a score above 100 which might exclude one or two of the participants in this forum whom I won't name out of fear of banishment.
Hell. Half of congress wouldn't be able to vote! Capital Idea LOL!!!
You shall be banished for a period of ten years to Gulag in Siberia! There, you will learn to be a more productive comrade. Some people just get their lil' feelin's hurt SOOOOOO easily.
This conservative would never even suggest banishing you or anyone else. How can I convince you if you cannot post any longer. No. Banishment is a tool that liberals use.
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