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Obama Occidental transcripts say he is not American

  1. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    Could this be true? If it is he, is out and should be arrested... and given a long sentence. Not to mention every law with his signiture on it is null and void.

    "Registration transcript states ~ Name: Barry Soetoro - Religion: Islam - Nationality: Indonesian"

    "The smoking gun evidence that annuls Obama’s presidency is Obama’s college transcripts regarding his application for and receiving of foreign student aid.  Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school. The transcript from Occidental College shows that Obama (Barry Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship (scholarship) for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program – an international educational exchange program sponsored by the U.S. government.  Grants are available for U.S. citizens to go abroad and for non-U.S. citizens with no U.S. permanent residence to come to the U.S.  To qualify, for the non-US citizen scholarship to study in the U.S., a student applicant must claim and provide proof of foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking.  The United States Constitution requires that Presidents (and Vice Presidents) of the United States be natural born citizens of the United States.

    “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

    Obama hasn’t met and doesn’t meet the basic qualifications for the presidency – must be natural born citizen.

    Obama has been named in dozens of civil lawsuits alleging he is not eligible to be president, with many filing a criminal complaint alleging the commander-in-chief is a fraud.

    The filed indictments disputes Obama’s eligibility to be president under the U.S. Constitution which requires that eligible candidates for the United States presidency be “natural born” citizens.


    This would spell the end of the Leftists and Obama if it proves to be true... and it seems pretty sure so far.

    1. Greg Sage profile image60
      Greg Sageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Regardless of political affiliation or agenda, this logic is incorrect.

      If someone is born here, moves somewhere else as a child, moves back later in life and is now a US citizen, they would now be:

      1) Natural born

      2) A U.S. citizen

      The "contradiction" is only in the false assumption that living somewhere else as a child somehow changes their place of birth.  If this is proven true, it will be irrelevant as there is no contradiction.

      I you want to make a case for fraud, go ahead, but the constitutional issue is specious at best.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image61
        Doug Hughesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        For years the narrative was,  "Why won't he release the birth certificate?" And we said, because once Obama starts jumping through hoops for the wingnut turmoil hat crowd, there will be no end to the hoops.

        He released the birth certificate. Now, I suggest the haters fold their turmoil hats til they are nothing but sharp corners and put them where the sun don't shine.

      2. Pintoman profile image60
        Pintomanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It's not just that he lived somewhere else. Did he give up his U.S. citizenship to become a citizen of Indonesia? If so, then he wouldn't be a citizen of the U.S. even if natural born.

    2. 0
      Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I like Obama, but I've always believed that we have a right to know the past of our highest public official. If there is any doubt, they need to address it.

      I have no idea how rigorous of a background check the presidential candidates are submitted to, but out of courtesy to the public, the president should order the release of any transcripts and records.

      1. TMMason profile image75
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly my point emile. He is obligated as any other politician seeking that opffice to dis-close his past. That is just so simple to understand. And what is it in that past that would cause him to hide it so vigorously. That makes more questions rise to the top... he is doing this to himself, no one else.

        1. 0
          Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Don't get me wrong. I'm 100% sure he is American, but I think he may have used the system with the college grants. I'd like to know the truth.

          And other presidents have refused to disclose personal documents. Obama is not setting a precedent.

          1. TMMason profile image75
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            No he isn't, and I don't like it when they do it either. But that doesn't give him a pass. I am tired of politicians and the they did it too excuse. There is no reason why if you want to be President you cannot disclose your past. And yes I believe him to be American, but he may have commmitted fraud, and that I do not like.

            My dis-like for the man is his Marxist ideology and Socialist agenda. But try to tell that to these fanatics here... no you have to be a racist, bigot hater.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I agree. Not about his philosophy. I admire that. But about the disclosure conversation. I do feel for Obama. No answers are good enough for some. The birth certificate was barely released before people were calling it bogus. He can't win for losing with some.

              1. TMMason profile image75
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree.

                I will freely admit I am no fan of the man.

                I find him to be arrogant, and a Marxist with Socialist tendencies, but hey he won, I will live with it till 2012.

                But I am so tired of people who scream racist about everything you say about the man, or about thier Liberal/Democrat Progressive policies.

                As a white man I am tired of it. I am not a racist just because I was born an anglo-saxon. And it gets very insulting to have to put up with that BS. I consider it a personal attack these days, and am tired of it. I state clearly why I don't like the man, and still all they can say is racist, bigot, hater, well... that just shows me they have no debating skills and are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

                I hope your having a good day, emile.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  My day is going nicely. I hope yours is too, but I must warn you. My vote is the one that negates yours at the polls. I'm quite liberal in philosophy. But I don't assume those who disagree are racist. Just wrong.smile

                  Just kidding about you being wrong. We all have our views.

                  1. TMMason profile image75
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And I am so happy you vote. Too many Americans are apathetic to the vote, and it is so unacceptable. It is your greatest most valuable Right in this country that you possess, and so many just do not care these days.

                    It is sad when American Idol gets more voters than the elections. Sad state of affairs in this nation.

                    And I am more than happy that you are the vote that negates me... and not one of them others. smile

    3. nightwork4 profile image61
      nightwork4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      your hatred for Obama is nothing short of sickening. bush destroyed your country, clinton made you folks look like fools, bush senior showed how much power the president actually has but Obama just wants to get the U.S. back on it's feet and respected again and people like yourself are destroying that too. freaking amazing how much the U.S. has changed in the last 15 years.

    4. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Total crapola! Joe McCarthy would be proud of you.

  2. Leann Zarah profile image84
    Leann Zarahposted 5 years ago

    It's pretty disappointing to read an American post a subtle hateful note about a president who has been elected by the majority of the US electorate. Didn't the US government check the veracity of Obama's claims about his nationality when he filed for his candidacy?

    Additionally, with conservative people pointing a finger at Obama for the long-running economic turmoil, didn't "W" contribute to such mess?

    I wonder if Republicans would raise an issue had it been a fellow Republican who succeeded W. By the way, did he really win the presidential elections in 2001? Or was it just some legal judicial "magic" committed by his allies? Was 9-11 a tragedy that made Americans forget or abandon questioning W's legitimacy as US president?

    Between getting a genuine election mandate (without any legal hurdle concerning Obama's nationality) and a questionable legitimacy as president (even if W got "reelected" in 2004), the former is certainly more preferable.

  3. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 5 years ago

    Tin foil hat time again TM.

    The fervour and hate behind the endless attempts to rake muck over the office is a disgrace.

    Is all this hate from the bible belt because he is black?

    Is part of it because calling someone a muslim is an insult in America, and a black muslim seems like an antichrist to the religiously impaired?

    It certainly looks like it to me.
    Obama is an American citizen and not a muslim and to not know that by now is wilful partisan ignorance in the extreme.

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And E it is really none of your bussiness as a foriegner bro. We American have the right to ask why, and what is this Document? And is it truly the document fromOccidental Colloege? Valid questions, all.

      1. I am DB Cooper profile image66
        I am DB Cooperposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "And E it is really none of your bussiness as a foriegner bro."

        An ironic statement considering the source you cited is a Canadian website.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this


        2. TMMason profile image75
          TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Just happened to be the link out of the three I copied. Oh well.

      2. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And why would you think it's none of my business?

        Do you know all about my ties to America?

        Are you aware that when America sneezes, we like the rest of the world get the flu?

        You remind me of other Americans who think you are an Island who answers to no one.

        We have supported America at every turn.

        For the first 10 years on the Internet most American forms did not bother with a country list for signups!

        Many ignorant Americans know nothing about the rest of the world, it's like they live in a bubble.

        Nationalistic fervour is not patriotism and some "foreignors" know the difference.

    2. uncorrectedvision profile image59
      uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The worst part of all of this is that if, by some insane chance, it was proved that Barry is not a legal American citizen the implications to our legal system, electoral system and the Constitutional crisis it would precipitate are frightening to contemplate.

      As someone from the great middle of America and a white, conservative Catholic I can say unequivocally and without any reservation that I do not hate nor do I know anyone who hates Obama.  I don't want him to be re-elected and I think he has been a very poor president but I do not hate him.

      He is adored by his family and has been a fine example of a faithful husband and a good father.  That is about as good as a an ordinary man can get.

    3. Repairguy47 profile image60
      Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I see you are from Australia, what a beautiful country. I was in Sydney about 30 years ago and would love to return. I am curious as to why you think all the criticism of Obama comes from the Bible belt, I agree he isn't well thought of here but it has less to do with skin color as it does with competency. He hasn't proven that he can repair our economy but has proven that he will take no blame for his part in it.

      He requested and received almost 1 trillion dollars in 2009 with the promise that unemployment would not rise above 8%, he was not able to deliver and payed the price for his bad ideas in November of 2010. George W Bush was called everything under the sun and I never heard a word from the other side about how we should respect the office. Americans are funny, we elect someone based on promises they made and when they don't deliver we get upset.

      You asked if Bush won the 2000 election, yes he did. He won the count and then won the recount. He may have been the wrong choice but he was elected. You are correct, Obama is an American citizen, he was elected to be our president, a mistake we hope to soon remedy.

  4. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    It is not hateful.

    It is a document from occidental College, that contradicts the running story regarding Obama.

    So too bad.

    If this is true, it is illegal and he should be removed.

    And read my post to begin with. Everything is a question, not a statement. I know many of you connot tell difference between on and the other, but there is a difference.

    So you can go ponder that for a while.
    I as an AmERICAN have the RIGHT to ask if this is a real document, and if so, what is gfoing on.

    And no they didn't check the truth of anything about him, not the media nor the Govt.

    And yes I would have raised it regardles of who this document spoke of if they were in office.

    And W's docs were all put out there for the public consumption, not Obama's he signed an Executive order to seal them all on his first day in office...

    On January 21st, 2009, his very first day in office, Barack Obama implemented and signed into law Executive Order 13489. The Executive Order that states that only the records he chooses to be made public will be released?

    This is the subject that was at the absolute top of his agenda?

    He has completely hidden his past. The Obama records which have not been released include;

    • Passport records

    • Obama kindergarten records

    • Punahou School records

    • Occidental College records

    • Columbia University records

    • Columbia thesis

    • Harvard Law School records

    • Harvard Law Review articles

    • University of Chicago scholarly articles

    • Illinois State Bar Association records

    • Illinois State Senate records/schedules(said to be lost)

    • Medical records

    • Obama/Dunham marriage license

    • Obama/Dunham divorce documents

    • Soetoro/Dunham marriage license

    • Adoption records

    • Birth Certificate

    So far, no one really knows who this person who calls himself Obama really is.

    So.. you are completely wrong all the way through your post, Leann

    And if yu follow the link, they have a snapshot of the document in question.

    This is proof of one of two things if real, he lied and committed fraud, or he wasn't born here. Either is a crime.

    My point in this post is that he should address it and declare its whether it is, or is not, real. I have been on. snopes.com and they say, no it is false, but other sites say, yes it is true.

    So agiain, the admin needs to address it and clear it up.

    Simple concept.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
      Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And you know all this how ?


      Your accusations make the Highest Court in the land-USA a joke,which the majority of Americans do not believe.

      I repeat ,where on earth do you get all your information from?

    2. Leann Zarah profile image84
      Leann Zarahposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Completely wrong?

      You won't post that article TM if you are not questioning Obama's integrity. Based on that "news" written by a purported "investigative journalist" named Paul Kincaid whose writings are equally questionable (like what is posted here: http://www.propagandistmag.com/2011/05/ … iminal-now), you are also questioning why a well-esteemed organization like Fulbright didn't raise any issue when Obama ran for the presidency in 2008.

      Okay, let's say Obama deceived American voters, aren't those people and institutions (including his predecessor's government) that have copies of his personal records equally liable for committing such a fraudulent act?

      Isn't his wife a lawyer as well? I don't think Michelle Obama would support her husband's decision to run for the presidency if he didn't fit the qualifications. Both lawyers know US laws more than you do, TMMason. And please, before you believe something that you've read on the Net, it's better to check out the source and have an idea about the poster's political affiliation, like Republican Fox News barking the way you do.

      I don't support Obama's war-related decisions, including his order to annihilate Bin Laden in a covert operation. I am one of those who would rather see that guy tried, convicted, and sent to prison to suffer perpetual incarceration or solitary confinement. In spite of that, however, I don't think he duped the American people about his nationality. As a smart guy, he knew what he was getting into. And as a devoted father and husband, I don't think he'd compromise his integrity as doing so will affect his family.   

      People like you, TMMason, are telling Obama's kids that their father is a great liar. I'm sure he's capable of lying, but not this kind of a lie as it will certainly mar his chance of getting elected as president.

      He didn't lie about his nationality, TMMason. It's the people accusing him of doing so who are simply because they couldn't accept the fact that a colored American and his family are now occupying the White House.


    3. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      How about unveiling your past, TM?

  5. 0
    jerrylposted 5 years ago

    Could this be true?

    It sounds like the a Leonard Nimoy narration script in one of those (Are the aliens real) type television shows.
    Could it be?
    Is it possible?
    Can we believe?
    Did the government hide evidence?
    Is there a hidden agenda?

    TM, why aren't you going after both the demo and repub politicians for their approval of his being eligible for, and elected to the office of president? You as a taxpayer,should be able to stir up enough dissent in Washington to get them to take action. Go door to door getting a petition signed.
    So far, all you have produced,are inuendos, no solid proven, uncontested, documented facts.

    Tune in again for the next episode of (Are the aliens real).
    Nimoy's script says it could be possible. That's enough proof for me.  LOL
    Have a great day

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah! I will meet you out there. lol

      Are you all so threatened by a story, that discussing it turns you into insulters within a breath? I mean if you cannot read an article and discuss it, why are you all here? That is what forums are for people... yes believe it or not.. it is.

      And I have asked questions in the topic post... "questions"... I know no one should question you all and your brilliant minds, but hell I will anyway.

      So get over it, if you don't want to discuss something, then don't. Those who want to, will.

      I can post ANY article I want to stir debate or discussion. Again, that is what the forums are for. Ask a moderator. I bet they will tell you, yes the forums are for discussion and debate.

      Simple concept, grasp it people, grasp it.

      And I should clearify, snopes doesn't deny the document is real, they claim that since Obama has duel citizenship then he can apply for that scholarship as foriegn student. But that is not true, if he is a deul citizen then he is a citizen period... not a foriegner when he can gain for it, and American when that works for him. So as I have said ealier, fraud, or fraud as president... you tell me?

      1. 0
        jerrylposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So by your standards, which I like, every corporate head who hid the profits of American corporations, in offshore banks, should be taxed out of business, because they avoided taxes by doing so, even if there are legal technicalities that allow them to do so.  After all, these corporations are American businesses.  It evidently matters not that they screwed the American taxpayers.  I like the idea, but it isn't going to happen!
        Get real, how many people do you know that will try to get something for nothing, if they think they can get away with it?
        There are children out on the streets selling drugs, because they live in poverty, To many of them, it's the only way they will ever get a piece of the American dream.
        How many people do you know, that will or have cheated on their taxes?
        This is a corrupt world.  Corruption is business as usual, on all levels of the economic or societal status scale. The only way to resolve this, is to get rid of the powers that control our politicians, the media and our monetary system.
        So in the interest of putting out more debate material, why don't you start a thread about the corruption of every president since the birth of this nation?
        There would be plenty of ammunition to go around.
        Limited Examples:
        The Kennedys as rum runners accusations.
        The bushes relationship to the Carlyle corporation. The missing 8 billion in $100 bills in Iraq. That's enough to make 8,000 people millionaires.
        GW"s questionable way of getting out of harms way when he was a pilot?
        Reagan's Iran/contra dealings?
        Nixon's Watergate?
        You get the picture.     
        Are these things that have gone by, so they don't need as much scrutiny as anything involving Obama?
        Is your agenda politically motivated, or do you attack corruption on all levels, regardless of party affiliation?
        What good are your questions to people that are in no position to prove or disprove your inuendos, or are your questions only meant to fan the flames of dissent?  Why not try questioning all of the politicians involved?  Why not contact the President himself? Get first hand information. You can do it.

        1. TMMason profile image75
          TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Do you rant and ramble all the time... or just when I post?

          An W's stuff was release after a small battle, and the news propagated forged documents, remember CBS and Dan Rather?

          And I am NO Bush fan, he was a Progressive, I do not like, nor do I support Progressives.

          I am a Conservative, not a Progressive like the RNC establisjment, and so many of the current canidates on the Right for the Republican nomination.

          Fox and the Democrat/Progressive machine think they are going to pick our nominee... and they are not... not this time. For too long they have wrote the script for both sides, what you think we are a two party system?, not since the early to mid 20th century have we been a two party system, the Leftists and their Progressive ilk have been playing both sides of the field for decades now, and we, the Conservative American public, see them for what they are.

          My point is and has been that he, Obama, should release his records as all others have to, at least when the Left screams they have to. And this controversy is his own fault, as much, or more, than anyones elses, Obama sealed Obama's records... not I, nor any other citizen.

          1. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            it is true He ordered his records sealed during the first days in office, I am looking for the record of that order, it is available.

            but  I am not sure why he did that?  Reasons are not what we think sometimes, giving the President the benift of the doubt here.

      2. JamaGenee profile image89
        JamaGeneeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Let's cut to the chase. If both of President Obama's parents had been Caucasian, you wouldn't give a flying fig leaf about his place of birth or nationality.  Just as no one raised a ruckus that John McCain was born on a naval base in Panama, which **could** fail the Constitutional requirement of being born **IN** the U.S. So just own up to the fact that you and your fellow bigots simply can't stand that the Oval Office, long considered the birthright of white America, is occupied by an "uppity" mulatto.

  6. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago

    Yeah, TM, that's good advice, huh?!   Contact Obama himself.  After all, he's always been SO transparent and honest as he runs his agenda to fundamentally change America!   roll

    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      whats bothering me here is the date of the LA times article, year 2009?
      just some question's here?

      would not that article have been checked out by now by authorities?, verified true or false by now, by officals? or was it supressed?  Where was Holder on this?  The LA Times usualy verify's sources. Holder should have acted on this? soo..... some other info must exhist?

      any FBI info available that shows it is true or false?  An odd report to surface now?

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Haven't you noticed that Obama is untouchable no matter what he does?   At least so far.  And has been ever since Hillary threw her towel in with his.  He's protected by Holder and that entire circle of liberal officials and commentators (formerly newspeople) who detract and distract from the basic issues.  And the people who dare question anything about him are attacked, tagged, labeled, and thrown into the liberals' dumpster.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          but Brenda, what actualy transpierd here? You are caught in generalizations, Obama can do anything, great, but it is not action producing speach

          You and I, people like us have to switch to investigative mode, un-prove or prove it and expose it. we have a lot fo talk, but lets get actions going instead. We are not doing that.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The burden of proof lies with the person holding Office, not with the inquiring citizen.  Remember the phrase "public servant" (and don't forget PAID public servant).  But that's been turned awry by those who back this current Administration.

            1. dutchman1951 profile image60
              dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              ok, you got me there!  I meant we need to prove the article then expose it as much as possible, but yes, he should do that.

            2. 0
              Texasbetaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The article is ridiculous. These morons who refuse to accept absolutely anything are of no point. Nothing you show them is going to convince them. They are children who can't get past "nuh-uh." The mentality truly disgraces our nation.

  7. thebrucebeat profile image59
    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago

    Everything that he has been accused of so far has been debunked.  That is why the tinfoil hat people are ridiculed.  As soon as one conspiracy theory is shown to be a hoax, the next surfaces.  That is why people are denigrated when they bring this stuff up.  It's been an endless litany of bs.
    If Obama did get this scholarship and was technically eligible because of his years living overseas, more power to him.  What single parent would turn down scholarship money that was granted legitimately?  I wouldn't.  Find out if any wrongdoing occured before you try to needlessly stir the pot with speculation and innuendo.
    This is simply more unsubstantiated smear so far.  Bring something to the table that won't bounce back on you and simply bring you more humiliation as a hopelessly agenda driven hack.

  8. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 5 years ago

    Broken record, no ending.

  9. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago

    Nonsense. By no stretch of the imagination whatsoever is he Indonesian FFS.

  10. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago


    Why do you think you have zero credibility?

    You look to the first thing that sounds right to you (i.e. "Obama not an American") and without thinking twice....without questioning the source for a second...you come here and post tripe like this....

    Now, if you weren't so lazy you would have easily found this:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi … dental.asp

    You are your own undoing Mason...

    Again, it is highly fitting that you are here with idiot McCarthy as your avatar...

    Two misguided, deluded/delusional peas in a twisted pod of arrogance...

    Now, to turn this thread into something relevant (which you hate), did you get to read about the Citigroup Memos yet...or are you still writing "another hub"?

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy& … mp;bih=492

    Come out of fantasy land and start learning how to critically analyze information....

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I have been to snopes read my posts... mentioned it clearly, and they are not always true either mike. And site built around Micheal Moore's movies are what lack credibilty... and you talk about me.lol

      So read my posts before you talk to me.

      And as I have said over and over, for those with conprehension skills. This was posted as a question, as to the validity, and the story itself. So you all have fun frothing at the mouth and go finish your Micheal Moore movies.

  11. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago

    yes but this fraud is not even plausible.  It is not like Obama comes from a family no one ever heard of.  Indonesia?! really?  That's not even trying.

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      He spent his formative years in Indonesia... that is a fact... in an Islamic Madrass, (Islamic School). He will tell you that himself. So.. to act like Indonesia totally nix' the story is absurd. His family lived there for years.

      1. 0
        Texasbetaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Formative? That is moronic! He was 5. How formative is that? I understand that you personally haven't mentally progressed since you were 5, but the rest of the world has and does. It is absurd, as are you and your posts.

        1. Doug Hughes profile image61
          Doug Hughesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Someone tell me. Is the person who repeatedly, habitually, and deliberately posts malicious falsehoods morally bankrupt?

          The word 'liar' doesn't come close.

          "But initial reports have distorted the reality of the four years Obama spent in Indonesia, from 1967 to 1971. In fact, Obama's religious upbringing in Indonesia depended more on the conventions of the schools he attended than on any decision by him, his mother or his stepfather.

          When he was at a Catholic school for three years, he prayed as a Catholic. When he was at a public school for a year, he learned about Islam.

          Obama's stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim, according to former friends and neighbors.

          And the school described as an Islamic madrassa in media reports actually was a public school, so progressive that teachers wore miniskirts and all students were encouraged to celebrate Christmas."

          From the Chicago Tribune

          http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/poli … 8809.story

  12. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Michael Moore movie or joining the tin foil hat brigade?

    I'll let you live with your stereotypes and bogus conjecture...

    Snopes is not alone:

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/p … nd_to.html

    "They are not always true"....

    Mason...in terms of "true" statements, you (again) have no credibility...

    I read your entire post, and it is nothing but brainless rant...it reminded me of a McCarthy speech...

    Keep your brain drain going....and I, and others, will continue to point your lunacy out for all to see...

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I can post 50 sites calling it true, also.

      C'mon mike, you know bettter than that.

      And tin foil hats are Ron Paul's gig, not mine.

      There are questions, have been, and still are, and if Obama is running again they will be asked again. Untill he release the records of his past, this will not end.

      And again read my post... a question...?

  13. psycheskinner profile image81
    psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago

    It is absurd because we know where his mother was when he was born, and we know she is American.  People were there at the time.  You can't just pop out to Indonesia to give birth and even hippy debutantes like to do so in a nice western hospital.

  14. safiq ali patel profile image71
    safiq ali patelposted 5 years ago

    Interesting article but I don't think this is the end of Mr Obama. It's his possible connections with what remains of "the nation of Islam" that I find disturbing.

  15. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Keep your nonsense train going...

    Your continued posting simply calls you out further as a charlatan...

    Poor guy...  It that's as high as you can set your sights for, then I really feel for you...

    The tin hats are definitely for you....

    Ron Paul is intelligent enough to not get caught dead with the "birther" lunatics...

    The only questions about the President's birthplace come from ignorant, delusional people....like Orly Taitz...

    I am disappointed in you Mason...

    I really am....

    You sink lower and lower all the time, and it hurts only you....

    You can try to argue back....but it makes you look even worse...

    I have to learn to remember this:


    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      lol you are as funny as the guy below. No, your funnier.

  16. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    One just has to insert Senor McCarthy with the tin foil hat to make that image complete...

  17. thebrucebeat profile image59
    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago

    Mason, what brands you as something more than someone with a philosophical argument with the man's politics is your continuous attempts to smear him with absurdities and debunked accusations.  That is why you get pigeon-holed as a racist.  Did you come up with all these accusations against Clinton?  Carter?  These silly games are being trotted out against our first black president, and "as a white man", I think that irks you.
    Brenda, there is no burden of proof against charlatans and harrassers.  They should be ignored unless they are bringing something to the conversation worth addressing.  Every potato head should not be catered to.  These accusations have already been addressed by the media, and don't require the attention of the president.  Is that where you want him spending his time?  Addressing political malcontent hacks?

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes I did, and against Bush when he wouldn't release his docs.

      So do not pretend you know me... you do not.

      Go sling your BS rhetorict at someone who cares to hear you, perhaps the mirror, so you can admire yourself as you speak. Maybe pat yourself on the back and snicker as if you know something.

      What irks me is his Marxist Socialist tendencies... that is a simple concept none of you can grasp. Go back to mirror now and impress yourself.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        RFLMAO Obama a Marxist socialist, you are having a laugh aren't you?

      2. thebrucebeat profile image59
        thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Your personal attacks are fun and very entertaining.  Not sure what they are intended to accomplish, but they help to maintain the reputation of internet discourse.
        What accusations did you bring against Carter or Clinton that had already been debunked?  That is what I asked, and you proudly said you have done it for decades.  Well, I guess that gives you points for consistency.

        As for Marxism, you and Savage wouldn't know what it was if you fell over it.  Fortunately for you, anyone that would give you credibility won't have any knowledge of it either, so the rants will be effective, if not accurate.

      3. Leann Zarah profile image84
        Leann Zarahposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        People like you, TMMason, give Karl Marx and his ideas such a bad name. The guy was a humanist who wouldn't approve of using violence to effect social change. It's the last resort, actually. Marx strongly vouched for education of the exploited and struggling proletariat as the most potent tool to create such change. 

        Between a humanist who wanted a classless and humane society (very much unlike what "leaders" in China, N. Korea, and few other so-called communist states) and a guy or people who are too selfish and seem quite impervious about what past and present imperialist American forces (governments and businesses) have been doing to and in other countries, I'd rather join those people who espouse non-capitalistic and non-materialistic values, including equality.

        Read Karl Marx's works first before you condemn him.


    2. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Personally (and I'm not alone in this), I'd prefer it if he actually did the job he was hired to do, instead of remaining a community organizer for liberal unConstitutional causes.   But going in circles around that dizzying bush is what got him elected, so I guess the libs are vewwy happy with the distraction.  If I were a liberal agenda idealogue, I'd be happy with Obama too.

      1. thebrucebeat profile image59
        thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So you agree with me that he should ignore all these silly accusations that keep popping up and continue to do his job.  Great!  Enough said.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Not funny.
          Have you been taking lessons from him on how to twist and manipulate an issue?

    3. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      if it will keep him out of the money, yes let the Pres pre ocupy himself with birth recvords, at least the monies will stay put for a few weeks!

  18. PrettyPanther profile image86
    PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago

    Been gone awhile.  I see that nothing has changed.


  19. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago

    That boat has sailed...the fat lady has sung...give it up.

  20. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    it is all part of the plan to re-structure this nation into a Eropean Socialist Democracy, what a joke those are, and he is slamming through what he can, just as FDR and CARTER, so that even if we rmove some of the mechanisms, we will not be able to remove it all. In December 2010 the lame deck Democrat Congress, with the help of the Progressive traitors, pased huge bills for the financial Industry (even though thier policies are what collapsed it to begin with, among many many other pieces of legistlature that will continue to destroy this country one day at a time.

    And finally someone in the media is talking the truth of Barney frank and Chris Dodds, Bill Clinton and the Democrat/Prgressives involvement. And is telling how their Social Engeneering has destroyed this system.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sh … and-fannie

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know of any European Socialist Democracies apart from perhaps Sweden and they hardly strike me as a joke.

      1. TMMason profile image75
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Behold collapsing Greece. And see the future of all of Europe. And exactly what they intend to do here. We see them, John. And we are not going to allow ourselves to become England, France, Italy or Spain... all headed down the path of Greece.

        I know you can claim lil differences between them, (a matter of degrees.) but that is about it.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          England certainly isn't socialist, it's nearly as right wing as the US!

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            BTW, Scotland is and one of the reasons Thatcher was so opposed to independence for them was that they were so successful.

          2. TMMason profile image75
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That speaks volumes about the US. Because compared to the US, England should look like what it is, a Socialist Democracy.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why on earth would you think that? Because we have the remnants of state run health care?
              That's a very thin basis for declaring somewhere a socialist state, there certainly isn't anything else left that could be mistaken for socialism.
              Public transport is in private hands, as is energy supply, the coal and steel industries, shrunk beyond belief are in private hands.
              What, tell me what makes us a socialist state, you never know, you might help me to sleep better.

              1. TMMason profile image75
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No I wouldn't... and we both know that John. You are a Socialist, semi- actually as you put it. And that is a reflection of your nation. Of course pretty soon you will have to wear a beard and pray on fridays to reflect your nations charactor.

                And yes, you are right in that alot of Europe is running head-long to the Caplitalist free market Right, because they see where the entitlement welfare state leads. As we, America, are running head-long into European Socialism.

                Your remark about England and America may hold some truth... in as much as we are passing each other by, as we run in the opposite directions.

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Ah,so that's the reason we are socialist, because we put enough food in the unemployed workers belly's to stop them rioting!
                  And why on earth would I have to wear a beard and pray on Fridays?
                  You really should spend a bit of time learning about the rest of the world, it might just slow down the number of stupid pronouncements you make.

                  (Hint; the welfare state was largely the work of the right wing capitalists, the socialists opposed it because, well, a hungry man is an angry man, give him just enough to survive on and the fight goes out of him)

                  1. TMMason profile image75
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The entire world sees what Islamic mass immigration is doing to England. And many many in England herself are raging against this fact, admitting now that the multi-culuralism of the past has failed and opened doors they cannot close. Now you country will reap the rewards of allowing anyone into your homes.

                    And giving someone un-employment till they die is not helping them, teach a man to fish... remember that saying, it simply builds the entitlement attitude and thieves thier motivation to do it for themselves.

                    We just committed that atrocity in our 99 weeks of UE Ins. for all scheme.

                    Another tool to break the bank of America with.

                    And we see where that is heading... when we don't have it to give, the Left will push the spoiled into the streets, demanding we give them theirs.

                    Hint; Your right wing is not ours. Nowhere near the same.

            2. Ron Montgomery profile image61
              Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              And NAZIs are socialists, and McCarthy was a hero, and.....skip.....skip...skip....

            3. Hollie Thomas profile image60
              Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I wish it was! I'd be happy to live here then.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I'm with you there Hollie.

  21. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    People like Mason attempt to usurp the "American" image while spewing bile like this thread...

    Fortunately, the majority of the American populace doesn't fall for this lunacy... 

    Mason, your poor spelling, lack of grammatical skills, and nonsensical ideations misrepresent your countrymen.....you do us all a great disservice...

    You may have some other misguided like Brenda and the Unloved Lady out there, but you remain a minority in reality...

    And as our nation ages, your generation will be gone long before mine...  Let us hope that the next generation will see your ridiculousness for what it actually is...

    (I think they will)

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You have noi idea what generation I belong to. I will be here for a long while.  And I represent the silent majority. And the next generation will see the screwing and treason of the left crystal clear, they will have tyo survive in it. So it will be in their faces daily.

  22. secularist10 profile image91
    secularist10posted 5 years ago

    "The transcript from Occidental College shows that Obama (Barry Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship (scholarship) for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program – an international educational exchange program sponsored by the U.S. government."

    I don't even understand this. So because he wrote something on a form to get some money, it's true? If I had a penny for each time I told a white lie to a paper-pushing bureaucrat, I'd be rich!

    If anything, this just shows the man is ALL-American, lol! From fudging the numbers on tax returns to this, it is the American way.

    This is kind of like saying that because GE declared no profit to the IRS in a recent tax year, it must be going down the tubes! LOL! Only the naive would believe it.

  23. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    I have never said it was true or false.

    The whole topic was a question.

    But you question Obama, your a racist bigot.

    So... too bad to those who do not like it.

    and it seems to me to have done what a topic is suppossed to... start discussion and debate.

    Wow, that is how bad it sucked.

    This is what I feel like every day on here...

    http://www.battlefield315.com/2011/02/l … ained.html

    1. justamber profile image61
      justamberposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Voted up. To tired to get in the argument,  it's pointless anyway. But I'm on your side. smile I'll be following you.

    2. justamber profile image61
      justamberposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Voted up. To tired to get in the argument,  it's pointless anyway. But I'm on your side. smile I'll be following you.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Same difficulty with spelling.  Same technical issues.


        I'm jus' sayin'.

        1. TMMason profile image75
          TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thats okay we all know we have won, when all you all can do is sputter about grammer and spelling in a comment in a forum. lol

          If I spell checked and structured perfect grammer, you all would have nothing to sling around. Then you would look, as hollow and empty as your arguments sound.

          1. 0
            Texasbetaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            You won huh? Obama IS President, and will win a second term. How is that winning for you? You've failed. Nothing you spout on her is going to change the fact that he IS President. Go cry in the corner.

  24. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago
    1. mikelong profile image83
      mikelongposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yes...you understand that you continue to forward nonsensical stereotypes and innuendo in order to justify your fallacious argumentation...

  25. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    "Could this be true? If it is he, is out and should be arrested... and given a long sentence. Not to mention every law with his signiture on it is null and void."

    You did post a question, and then you went on to make a series of statements that only hint at one biased answer...

    It is obvious, whatever generation you may be from, Mason, that you never took any logic courses or engaged in formal debate...

    You cannot hide your ridiculousness behind a question mark....

    Your "silent majority" is as valid as the "average American" concept forwarded by Citigroup..

    http://www.slideshare.net/lsccyfairall/ … omy-part-2

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy& … mp;bih=492

    Have you done the reading that you promised to complete?

    "I will later I am finishing a hub to post tonite right now. I will go look at it though, mike. I give you my word."<--(Mason 4 days ago)

    Well, based on your words illustrated through this thread (not to leave out beauties like..
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/77186?p … ost1675573   )

    your words are left empty and false...

    1. TMMason profile image75
      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      No. I stated what should happen if it was true. Too bad.

      I will check out your google page of micheal moore based websites later, is a bad thing?

  26. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Yes....you forwarded a thought that assumed a set of actions that you believe should take place based solely on his presumption of "foreigness"...instead of presenting an objective question for actual analysis...

    There is a big difference...

    The slideshare article is still there....

    You can continue weaving your falsehoods, but you can't hide the truth...


    (from the Google link I posted..)

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/0 … hael-Moore

    (again from Google links)

    Aside from Mr. Moore being one of only a few to showcase the Plutonomy reports, you have nothing to stand on, Mason...

    You continue to show your inability to critically or objectively come to conclusions while persisting in forwarding nonsense...like this ongoing thread...

    As someone who poses as a "red blooded American", your ongoing lack of interest in the links I have shared, and overwhelming willingness to minimize them demonstrate something much different...and worse...

    Cronie is as cronie does...  Good job Herr Mason..  You would make guys like this proud:


  27. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Yes Mason...it makes perfect sense to leave relevant pursuits until later while you waste your mind forwarding threads like this...

    Your misplaced priorities speak volumes..

  28. bigchido profile image60
    bigchidoposted 5 years ago

    Americans should be more concerned whether he is doing a good job or not.

  29. 60
    blueyankeeposted 5 years ago

    This only a opinion with a secret kind of wisdom for Obamas Citi
    zeship as its complete Non-Sense.
       Obama hasnt a clue of how to have compassion for fellow Ameri
    cans as he is not one himself.Obama began with deceit and anyone
    whom believes Obama could ever have any type of recognition for
    a fellow Human is beyond all his facilities for Fellowship and
    any belief in Gods works,to which he proclaims to be a Christian
    and perhaps omitting his credentials of being a Batised Christia
    n,or even anywhere near a Born Again Christian which is better
    than no belief at all.
       Obama could be a American if he wasnt too busy doing a cover up of the truth which is protected by Congress,Bought Off Judges
    all Capital Hill Politicians,Republicians whom are in bed with
    the president.Obama spends the tax payers money like its a locus
    t Hoard devasting as field of crops.
       Obama has too amny quirkes to be an American

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with the parts of that that are readable.....

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What, you mean none of it? lol

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 5 years ago in reply to this


  30. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    "The burden of proof lies with the person holding Office, not with the inquiring citizen.  Remember the phrase "public servant" (and don't forget PAID public servant).  But that's been turned awry by those who back this current Administration."  <---Brenda

    Actually, you are wrong..

    There are minimum standards required by law for one to qualify for election..

    Obama met them all..

    The burden of proof now lies with those who like to conjure up stupidity..

    Since there is no actual, substantive case against Obama, there has been no success on the "Birther" front...

    The fact that these loons continue on their way demonstrates that...

    1) These people don't understand the concept of learning...

    If at first you don't succeed, try try again...  Don't think about the fact that you were wrong the first time...just keep wasting your time, our time, and our resources on your lunacy...

    2) They don't care to understand the truth...

    They are so caught up in their rhetorical spin that, no matter how stupid they look, they continue on their way...  They have dug themselves so deep, that they believe they will look dumber for abandoning their position than for "staying the course" (another statement made by another idiot)....  What they don't realize is that they look dumber for blundering on their current course...

    3) They continue to ostracize themselves politically....making any politician who ends up with the "birthers" on their team increasingly suspect and unelectable...

    Poor Trump found that out before he got in too deep....  Now where is he? 

    At least he was smart enough to back off the embarrassing press conferences and farcical "investigations to find out the truth"...

    What a sad bunch of people these "birthers"/"Obama is not a citizen"ers are....

    Way to lower the political discussion/I.Q. bar of this nation....

  31. TMMason profile image75
    TMMasonposted 5 years ago

    Your right, mike... I have yet to meet a leant leftist who was capable of learning anything not in complete agreement with their own canfabullated mis-understandings.

    That is a shame the education system wrecked all your minds and ability to think critically and question that which you have been told. You all are like a bunch of parrots in a room just babbling back what you read in college, and the profressors taught you to say.

    I bet you have never picked up a book that speaks to a contradicting point of view to your own... sad.

    Americans have the rioght to know anyhting they want about a man who want to hold the presidency. If the Media had done ther jobs instead of just enjoying the chills up their legs... we would know who he is.

    But they are failures at their jobs, same as Obama.

    And if you ever thought Trump was going to run... well that speaks volumes that you would think that.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Have you?
      It isn't enough to read books with a contradictory point of view, that implies a made up mind. What you need to do is throw off all your "leant lefties" ideas and read with an open mind.
      That way you'll learn that nothing is as cut and dried as you'd like to believe.

      1. TMMason profile image75
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How do you think I went from a dyed in the wool Dem to an Ind. Conservative, John... so yes I have... have you? At one time I bought all the same lies as you and the others.

        But I opened my mind and learned as much as I could about the other side of the story. Unlike the close-minds I find to be on here.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          My guess would be religion had a huge hand in it. smile
          G'Day TM

          1. Doug Hughes profile image61
            Doug Hughesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My guess was LSD, but ultra-orthodox religion has the same effect.

          2. TMMason profile image75
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I was a Christian as a Democrat... what would make you think I wasn't.lol  Alot of Democrats are Christians guys... damn thats a good one.

            I told you E I learned the truth about the lies.

            I am doing well. How about yourself? Weather been okay over there? Damn hot and rainy here.

            1. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh my. Are you still arguing this silly point? You need a hobby Mr. Mason. Have you ever considered taking up golf? You seem to have too much time on your hands.

            2. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I am well aware that there are christian democrats TM, I still think it is obvious to anyone except some Americans that there are loonies at both tables, Dem and GOP.

              Dragging this dead horse around is another matter altogether.

              This looks more like partisan wilful ignorance to me. smile

          3. JamaGenee profile image89
            JamaGeneeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That'd be my guess, too. smile

        2. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Unfortunately, your's is one of the most closed minds I have ever come across.
          Nobody with even a half open mind could come out with a lot of the stuff you do.
          What was it you recently said, Hitler must have been a socialist because his party was called National Socialist!
          Even with some very easy reading to disprove that, you still persist.
          And everything bad that ever happened, happened as a result of actions or inactions by "leant lefties"!
          No Conservative has ever put a foot wrong, any that have weren't real Conservatives but either progressives or closet lefties!

          1. TMMason profile image75
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            If that were true I would still be a Democrat.

            As I have said, he implimented his socialist ideology to sieze control and went straight to fascism. Not hard to understand.

            And as with Communism, there are differing degrees of Socialism. So it all makes perfect sense to those who do not have a dog in the fight. I have no need to deny it... because I am not a Socialist. But it is okay... I wouldm't want my ideology related to him either.

            And I have never said Conservatives have never done anything wrong. I have stated that alot of the stuff done by the Right was by Progressives, which there are alot of them, and they have controled the Party since early last century.

            So you take what I say and run to the extreme and then attribute it to me... which is your perception not mine.

            @Emile... I simply answer the posts directed at me. Unfortunatly when there are many people on at once slamming me with posts then it requires alot of replies. Sorry if that offends you, Emile... but I try to respond to everyone who speaks to me. Either that or I get accussed of not answering questions and failing to state my case and supply answers.

            And I have hobbies, my guitar and I spend alot of time together, I also have my pupies which take up alot of time. Unfortunatley I do not work anymore or I would be able to fill up alot of time.

            Besides it is good to keep the mind active, and what better way to keep the mind active then to debate on here.

            How r u 2 day Emile. I hope well.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you for so clearly demonstrating my point.
              What exactly was Hitler's socialist ideology?

              1. TMMason profile image75
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am not going into this again. You know damn well I klnow what Socialism is, and Fascism, so lets just leave it where it has been for the last week.

                Appearently you feel that no-one but yourself knows what Socialism is. You have read my hub, I am well aware of what it is.

                So lets continue on and find another topic, John.

                If you need to refresh your memory...

                http://hubpages.com/hub/Whatt-is-Commun … l-the-Same

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I feel it incumbent upon myself to try to educate you!
                  Your hub clearly demonstrates that you do not know what socialism is.

                  1. TMMason profile image75
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Lol... sure it isn't.

            2. 0
              Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm fine. I would be ever so much better if I didn't have the sneaking suspicion you were a right wing conservative. But, since I can't imagine anyone seriously holding such radical views, I feel confidant I have misread your posts.

              I hope your evening is fine also. And I'm sorry you don't have a job to keep you occupied. But, puppies can be time consuming in themselves. Its good that you try to stay active.

              1. TMMason profile image75
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I am a Independent Conservative, Emile. Sorry. I don't know if you would call that Right-wing... but I have alot of views that probrably mesh with the right-wing.

                But we do not have to agree on everything to be friends. I mean I have alot of friends that I do not agree with, and they have friends they do not agree with. It is what makes the world go round.

                I do not find my views to be so radical. There are alot of things I am not straight conservative on, such as Soc. Sec. for old and disabled, Welfare food stamps medicare and medicaid for the poor and needy, I don't mind unemplyment for a realistic time not 99 weeks, hummm what else?...

                Granted I have a strict no abortion policy, except for life of the mother, serious birth defects, rape, incest...

                I don't want gay mariage but I wouldn't mind civil unions which would grant the rights they claim they want..

                Military use only when the US is attacked or if it involves a risk to our security or national welfare...

                I don't think it is the Govt's job to control Health-care, but I know our system needed repair... I just believe it could have been done without siezing the entire system and nationalizing it.... I do not believe in nationalizing any industry and did not support the bailouts for the banks or auto cos....

                I do not vote one party, I vote the issues.... I just do not agree wioth hte Democrats on many things. I used to be one... but now I am disappointed in them and their continuous run to the far Left.

                I think that is all the important ones?... anything else ask and I will answer.

                As to working... I had a massive heart attack and died in Dec. So when I feel better I will go back out to work with my buddies company. I don't need the money, but I would like to do something constructive a few days a week.

                What are your views? If you don't mind me asking.

                1. 0
                  Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm so sorry to hear of your heart attack. I'm glad you are well enough to argue your points so passionately. As to my views?

                  I think we should give a helping hand to those less fortunate. So, I do believe in a welfare system. But I believe we've allowed our welfare system to become a handout at times, which isn't right. There should be a sense of honor in a day's labor and we should help welfare recipients learn this.

                  I believe everyone has the right to expect basic health care. I have excellent health insurance, but I have friends who don't. It sickens me to see what the bill is for uninsured health care, as opposed to what I pay for the same services. I agree with you to some extent, because our government has proven itself incapable of managing anything without screwing it up, so national healthcare probably won't work, but we have to do something.  I think there should have been a system put in place to rein in corporate greed and help the uninsured.

                  You know my views on abortion. As to gays? I don't consider it my place to determine what is right for others. If two people of the same sex want to marry, it isn't my place to stands in their way.

                  I'm with you on the use of the military, but we might disagree on what constitutes a threat. I do not back the forces in Afghanistan or Iraq. I served in the Air Force. I think everyone should serve their country, but I do not support war unless it is to step in to protect human life. National interests do not include corporate interests.

                  Oh, and I think the bailouts were foolish. No one has ever bailed me out. It makes me sick that our government is so far in the red and thinks nothing of it; corporations run themselves into the ground and that's ok, but the american citizens are expected to foot the bill. I'm tired of it.

                  But I believe the problems cross party lines. The entire government, from top to bottom, has forgotten they work for us.

                  1. TMMason profile image75
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Well. I would say we are not so far apart, you and I.

                    I agree with about all you said.

                    As you say we may not agree on all things that constitute a national threat, but other than that?...

                    I am ex-Army myself and know the value of Soldiers', or anyones' life. I am not so sure about the "Responsiblilty to protect". I know human life is valuable and should be cherished, but to simply go to war to defend life regardless of whose, would have us in alot of countries waging war. ie Syria, egypy, NKorea, that could even extend to China and other totalatarian countries.

                    unless you mean simply American Life. But you strike me as a person who cares about life regardless of nationality, religion or race. I am not saying anyones' life is not worth as much as an Americans. Just that that would open alot of fronts to wage war upon.

                    other than that I do not see where we are so far apart on the issues. Of course there are more than what we have discussed, but I think those are about the main ones.

                    As for the heart attack, do not be sorry for me.  It wasnt so bad, not even the dying part. I went through 75 minutes of cpr, cardio-version shocks, atripine and epi, along with caths and stints. I was climically dead for all of that time, a few times that got a heartbeat for all of three or four seconds. I already had 3 stints, so a few more didn't hurt.

                    I have come to realize though Emile, that everyone should die at least once in their life. You would be surprised the amount of clearity and sense of priorities one can gain from the experience. And yes I did see something... but I do not really want to discuss it right now. I am writing a hub on it though and will publish it soon.... maybe not that soon, but soon. I guess I have been savoring the experience, so to say. Suffice for now to say it only strengthened my faith in God and that we are meant for so much more.

                    I know I am called a radical right winger in here... but I think that is more because so many on here lean so far left, more than my leaning right. And yes Joseph Mccarthy is a hero to me for what he saw and called attention to.

                    Other than that I am pretty much a normal Independent Conservative and have been since about 5 years after my first vote. I saw too many policies on the Left and from the Progressive Right that I knew would eventually lead to bankruptcy. As you said, we cannot infantialize people and continue to build the rolls bigger and bigger, they need to something for themselves, unless physically unable to.

                    I do alright myself. I was offfered disability and said no because I had enough and didn't want to be a part of the drain. But I do not begrudge anyone the right to assistance if they need it. Whether it is part time or permanent. I may be there one day myself.

                    But growing up in Lynn MA. on welfare, (my father had snapped his back in half on the job and could not work anymore when he was 22 and it destroyed him), I saw too many get trapped in that system.

                    I know that system and what one can become when trapped on it. It is not a high rolling life, no big paydays, not much of anything to look forward to, and never any extra.  I have witnessed first hand whole generations of families grow up on and inherit welfare. It was what they knew... and it is hard to break any cycle in life, be it addiction or assistance.

                    It is very nice to talk to you, Emile. I am glad to speak with you, and not to be arguing with someone else.

  32. JT Walters profile image76
    JT Waltersposted 5 years ago

    Mr. Mason,

    Rather ironic someone with the last name of Mason wouldn't undertsand Barry?  But i assure you everything that needed to be known about Barry was known from the beginning.

    As for Barry's policies well I think that is a seperate issue from his birth certificate.

    I have lots an dlots of criticism for Dc folks but I am certain they haven't gone os far off the bedn that they didn't vet Barry throughly.  Have you ever considered that many of our foriegn workers have children on US bases aournd the world that are born US citizens.  If Barry was born on a base he is a citizen whether that base be in India, Indo-China or Kenya.  Our foreign aid workers wouldn't do foregn work if they thought they were giving up their children's rights ot ctizenship in the country they were employees of.

    Baby born in Iraq in the Gren Zone to USA civilian, aid worker, diplomat or soldeir is a USA citizen.  It is how it works.

    Things are much more complicated than they seem. In most instances children born to that situation have dual citizenships. Have you considered Barry might have two?

  33. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Thank you Mason for again demonstating the flaws of "assumption" based life...

    You can twist whatever your deluded McCarthyesq mind wishes....

    In terms of my background... I actually used to argue the same points that you do now...

    However, "when I became a man I put away childish things" so to speak...and I realized that my GOP/Conservative reasoning was off base...

    I used to be anti-worker organization....(collective bargaining)

    I used to denounce "those illegals"...and would have supported the backward, ridiculous laws regarding immigration that states like Arizona and Alabama have set up....

    But, as I came to know more....as my experiences diversified (far beyond school, my friend)....and as I learned more (independently driven) about how this nation works, my views changed....

    So, as opposed to staying in the stagnant pools of political and social conservatism I realized that real beneficial change required me to think outside of the little box my family/ethnicity/socio-economic ststus/religious affiliation tried to limit me within...

    It is evident that this stage didn't reach you...

    If you wish to be absurd, and continue to support the nonsense that this thread's original premise lays out, that is on you...

    You can keep your brain drain train going.....  Why anyone would continue along delusional lines I can't fathom....

    Then again....you do have McCarthy as your avatar....

    And I reiterate...what a loon that man was....

  34. Dolores Monet profile image93
    Dolores Monetposted 5 years ago

    1) how is it that a little kid can give up his American citizenship? Don't think  so.
    2) having access to President Obama's kindergarten records is important, why?
    3) as a white person, I understand that the word "arrogance" is a code word for white people who feel threatened by educated and successful black people.

  35. Pintoman profile image60
    Pintomanposted 5 years ago

    A little kid has parents who act on his behalf, happens everyday for little kids all over America. Disagreeing with a President does not make one feel threatened nor does it make them a racist. Personally his education appears to have been very substandard, not much of a threat. He is arrogant, but that's just one symptom of narcissism. I never see defenses of Obama's policies, just name calling from the left.

    1. Dolores Monet profile image93
      Dolores Monetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But the discussion here seems to revolve around kindergarten grades, being an actual American, and arrogance. I'm not seeing much about policies. Just wanted to stick to the thread.

  36. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 5 years ago

    Never say never....

    The DREAM Act was a great piece of legislation...  It is unfortunate that the GOP "bloc of "no"" was able to turn enough Demoocrats against it to keep it from passing...

    In terms of the bailouts.....while so many have criticized Obama for his part in implementing them (for the GOP holds at least equal responsibility for their existence and passing), I have not yet heard a rational mind discuss what possible alternatives could have been....

    A few have criticized "too big to fail"....but, since we have never seen such a "failure" especially in such an interdependent world, had the spending not have taken place we could have been in a much worse condition...

    Obama's administration has ramped up ICE activity... While I support the arrest and deportation of violent criminals who are undocumented, I don't agree that the wholesale roundup of undocumented men and women is a good idea...

    There is no perfect politician that I have ever seen....  However, Obama is definitely the lesser of two evils...  The GOP has consistently sided on the wrong side of history for a long time...  They have a long way to go before they can win over my support again...

    As for the Democrats, I consider a great percentage of them to be GOP in donkey's clothing... 

    Regarding the health care overhall, I think time will tell...  I still see it as too premature to judge if the legislation will be beneficial or not...

  37. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 5 years ago

    I'm not really into this sort of debate however I like Dolores Monet and the things she has to say which is not to say others aren't equally valid I just haven't read theirs.

    Observation regarding the views pertaining to President Obama-(I'm neither for nor against President Obama) folks are saying he's arrogant that would imply he has plenty of confidence while just a little while before people were saying he was weak that the military office talking to the press yet and still he wasn't the only one making those comments....

    So tell me this -What chance does a person have if one says go left and you're wrong, go right and you're wrong???

    1. Reality Bytes profile image94
      Reality Bytesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      They have the opportunity to do their own research, educate themselves and make the wisest decision they are able to.

      Listening and following another's advice is probably the worst decision possible.

      1. Repairguy47 profile image60
        Repairguy47posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        What happens if the one giving advice is right?

        1. Reality Bytes profile image94
          Reality Bytesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          A human being should only make informed and educated decisions.  You can consent to bend to the will of another, if that is your informed educated decision?

  38. Charles James profile image85
    Charles Jamesposted 5 years ago

    The Harvard Law Review articles are hardly secret are they? The Harvard Law Review is available in the good libraries, so what is the problem here?

    No-one disputes that President Obama was Editor of the Harvard Law Review, so what is the fuss about?

  39. 60
    Ancient Aviatorposted 5 years ago

    It is a matter of words . The United States has a two party government . The Republican and Democrat parties administer the U.S . In the United Kingdom there are three parties , Conservative , Labour and Liberal . American polititions and media talk show hosts use the words Conservative and Liberal rather than Republican and Democrat . Lets get it straight . Republicans are not Conservatives and Democrats are not Liberals . In the UK Conservatives are not Royalists and L