In my State they are trying to pass a bill that will make it so that hard liquor can be sold in any grocery store thus providing easier access to hard liquor for minors.
Do you really want this to happen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cds7lSHa … ture=share
They're doing so to allow access to minors? Are you sure that isn't a distortion?
Maybe it's to make it easier for adults to buy alcohol, something that hasn't been prohibited since the repeal of the 18th Amendment?
Exactly. Alcohol isn't illegal, and if there is one thing we've got too much of in this country - it's people telling us if we can or can't do something that is as time honoured as is drinking alcohol.
Civilization progressed from hunter/gatherer (Able) culture to city culture (Cain) directly as a result of man's desire to have a stable and accessible supply of. . . . .alcohol.
The last I checked, grocery stores do ID checks just like liquor stores do.
It seems like this is increasing people's freedom to buy something they like where it's available for purchase in most other states. Are you against that?
I guess we are, just because we don't think it's necessary, and may increase DWI problems.
Maybe. It's just odd to see a self-described conservative (not you) arguing for more government controls over people's economic freedoms.
Well, maybe it's not all that odd at all.
I'm surprised you are not for it, If you think everyone should have to pay a healthcare tax, then don't you think it would raise the premium for patients suffering from sclerosis of the liver, and emergency room visits, surgeries, and organ transplants?
After all, it will be putting a dent in your wallet, as a taxpayer....
So you admit that it's not the access to the alcohol by minors that's the problem - your aim is to cut down on drinking altogether.
Again, not even a remotely conservative argument. I guess you didn't realize how liberal you really are!
So your argument is I'm a liberal? So you're saying I am presenting you with a liberal agenda, and you are against it? By that characterization then the political identity of liberals would be anti-ethnoreligious? Interesting, but not surprising.
I am a liberal with respect to some things, and decidedly conservative about other things (relatively few). I'm not ashamed to admit that I have my own views which might cut across the crude partisan landscape of today.
Given that there is no ethnoreligious homogeneity to liberalism - unlike American conservatism - then, no, I would say a liberal identity has no ethnoreligious component to it.
You clearly have a lot of liberal views yourself, but maybe your interest in having conservatives see Mormons as Christians is preventing you from "coming out" so to speak.
So advocating a conservative approach to alcohol distribution is a liberal thing.
I would be willing to bet that the exact opposite is true. I would say that liberals are voting for more lax liberal laws regarding so called "personal freedoms", when it comes to things like hard liquor laws, abortion, gay marriage, etc... I'm pretty sure you will find that most conservative Christians are against such things.
Yes, that's where conservative Christians and Mormons can agree with each other, even though Christians do drink alcohol and Mormons do not.
But that is not a conservative approach to alcohol distribution. It's a liberal one. Liberal policy favors regulation and government control over economic decisions; conservative policy favors no regulation or government control over economic decisions.
You calling it "conservative" because Mormons and conservative Christians want it doesn't make it conservative. It just makes clear that self-described conservatives very often favor liberal, not conservative, policy.
So just a recap you are saying that most liberals are against gay marriage, abortion, and lax liquor laws, while conservatives are usually in favor of these things. Also using a divide and conquor approach you believe Mormons are not Christians according to your beliefs in who or what Jesus is supposed to be, and how he, she, or it should be worshiped.
And I am secretly a liberal who can't come out of the closet for fear of loosing my status as a Christian with other sects of Christianity whose oppinions I really don't give a crap about. I find your logic a little presumptuous. Perhaps we should take a look at which party historically votes in favor of these issues, because clearly I've been disagreeing with people who I was under the assumption were liberals.
No, I didn't say those things at all. I'm not surprised you want to ridicule my line of argument, though.
Interesting. In California it has always been available in almost all grocery stores. They have to have a state license, to make sure they are collecting taxes, but it must be easy to get. I don't know if there is any effect on crime, etc.
In Oregon you have to go to a government operated store which might be more costly to the state, but also they set the prices, and there is no competition.
I am against the high volume of alcohol related deaths that will occur. Yes I am against people being killed.
That's fine. But that's not a conservative position to take - it's a classically liberal one.
It's safe to say that for many self-described conservatives, conservatism not so much a political identity as an ethnoreligious one.
Uhm... I think a "classical liberal' is pretty much synonymous with libertarian that is, against excessive regulations, and that a fascist or statist is the one who believes the government should have more control. Just going off that little diamond-shaped political ideology map. Don't get upset.
You're right, if you're using the definition of "liberal" that the British still use, but which has been long out of style here in the States (hence the term "libertarian").
I was using the American usage of the term, though. Quibbling about semantics might be a bit of a distraction though - you get my point, right?
I too am unsure if it is designed to make access to minors easier; they will probably keep the drinking age the same; but dobelieve they want to make it easier for adults to overdo and binge. Funny that theytake this approach with alcohol which is clearly a dangerous drug but one that makes millions of dollars for distillers and state coffers but will continue to lock away some poor hapless stoner.
Just watch the video my friend, it will answer all of your questions.
Do you happen to know who owns the largest majority of all liquor distilleries in North America????????????????
Research that one - get back to me, study THAT GUY, and what he's all about, and you'll be on a path then for sure.
No! You do it! And get back to me afterwards because there will be a quiz at the end. Number 2 pencils only, multiple choice, fill in the bubble.
Kudos for the humour . . . .but I already know the answers.
http://members.fortunecity.com/bigj2/br … onf_1.html
Lets you see them in a whole new light!
It is NOT about giving minors more access or even better access. It's about giving the adults who drink alcohol/liquor, more accessible places to buy it.
Unless, they are dropping the drinking age, then it makes no difference where it is sold. If they are indeed dropping the drinking age, below 18 years of age, then there is definitely a problem. Some States are 18 and some are 21.
I realize it is not about giving easier access to minors, my assertion is that this will be a byproduct of it.
Yes, there are always two sides in which to see things. You posted that it would give minors more or better or easier access. ID is still a requirement, so your statement is untrue. That's all I was pointing out.
Each State still has laws in place to prevent minors from purchasing. It is up to the businesses to enforce the laws in place or be held accountable. The question always will remain...is the law actually enforceable or not?
Giving more/better/easier access for legal adults to buy any type of alcohol, then businesses must teach their employees better, with regards to detecting minors, such as always carding those who purchase and for employees to also always pay attention to minors, whenever they are in the aisle or wherever alcohol is located.
Actually it is a true statement. Minors usually have no business being in a liquor store, and would be less likely to try a ruse or to steal as most of them would stick out of the crowd. There is a certain level of paranoia which prevents that from happening.
On the other hand, anyone can walk into a grocery store. So you see your saying that my statement is a lie, is a lie.
I am not saying it's a lie. But, more a negative side. As I stated, everything has two sides.
I never stuck out much at the liquor store nearest my university, or the university pub--despite that fact that almost all undergraduates there were under the legal drinking age at the time.
Nothing eh. Well lets just lower the drinking age to fifteen so we don't have to worry about the clogged up prison system we are going to face.
The prison system is already clogged up - and that is because we have the highest incarceration rate in the entire world.
Personally, I think there should be NO drinking age. Don't you see that making drugs illegal has done nothing towards preventing people from using substances?
Having laws like "drinking ages" only encourages the "forbidden fruit" phenomenon. If the drinking age were fifteen, then every thirteen year old in your state would be dying to have a drink of liquor. It's human nature, and laws only serve the purpose of making the illegal "sexy," and especially when in regards to substances or drink.
By that logic nothing should be illegal. After all we don't want to clog up our legal system with bothersome things like theft, murder, child abuse, assault, drinking and driving, drunken disorderly, Drunk in public, child endangerment, etc....
That's quite a lot different. Universally, humans agree that theft and murder are wrong. There is nothing similar in chemical use to something like murder or theft. In fact, only religious constructs dictate any sort of moral associated with substance use - and that is why making substances illegal makes them "fashionable" to rebellious persons.
Take the fashion statement out of it, and it's no longer the huge issue it is before.
Nice try though.
The state is after the fees associated with licensing...there is enough liquor available other places, it doesn't need to be in the grocery store.
I feel that a more free, European approach, could only benefit us by promoting responsible behavior!
China has no alcohol laws, you can buy beer alongside soft drinks. China has almost no public drunken-ness except outside the bars frequented mostly by Americans, what is it with you guys ?
Alcohol is available at the supermarket where I shop. I would have thought America would have learned from the results of 13 years of prohibition, but apparently not.
Same thing with the war on other drugs, it has criminalized America like no other country in the world.
Just plain stupid to regulate a legal substance.
Education is the only thing that works.
Honest education, not "reefer madness" and images of "Bad boys" on disgusting American cop shows where arrogance and ignorance are accepted as normal police behaviour.
Geeze America, you should take a bloody good long look at yourselves from offshore!
OH MY GOD!!!
A KID MIGHT BUY SOME ALCOHOL AT SOME POINT IN HIS LIFE BEFORE HE'S 21?!?!!?
I MUST NOW KILL A THOUSAND VIRGINS TO CLEANSE THE WORLD!!!
Where are you that spirit *can't* be bought in any grocery store. Heck, I have mine delivered to my door.
You still need proof of age.
Living 25 years in Spain made me realise that alcohol is not the problem, and easy access is no threat to society.
Spanish children were trained to drink from an early age, with diluted wine.
With Spain's entry into the EU, political correctness started creeping in, and it is now illegal to give younger children a glass of watered down wine.
The result has been that NOW young Spaniards have taken to binge drinking, having never been 'trained' to drink sensibly.
Government should be limited to the minimum interference in the lives of the people and individual, and law should always need to identify a damage done before something is a crime.
I am 6'2" and over 200lbs and although I do not drink much now by choice, used to drink heavily, and drive home at 3am without having had an accident in 41 years of driving.
Recently I did a reaction time test, and actually did better after three whiskeys.... go figure!
Alcoholics are those most likely to go out of their way to buy liquor, making it available in grocery stores will make zero difference.
It is even possible that general grocery stores will be better at checking ID (they depend on their overall reputation with grocery shopping householders) than specialist liquor stores (who just want to sell as much liquor as they can). Also it might encourage buying alcohol with a meal.
Really just wanted to say hello to Cags. Long time since I saw his avatar. And he's right: everything has two sides. Nothing to get too heated about.
I love that earlier comment in this thread about, hey, an underage person GOT SOME BEER! Oh, NO! WE all have to go kill a thousand virgins, something like that...
So where ARE all these virgins, anyway? Resting comfortably on the pagan altars near live volcanoes??? Meanwhile, back at the camp, all those underage drinkers are having their OWN party.
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