I just read an opinion piece in the NY Times about requiring a govenrment-issued photo ID to vote. The author, a GA congressman, believes this practice discriminates against African Americans. I don't get it. Anyone can get a photo ID easily - it doesn't have to be a driver's license. One of my friends got one for a few bucks when his driver's licese was suspended. I often have to show my ID (my driver's license) in order to write a check, and I think voting is much more important. Am I missing something here?
It makes no sense....if you are a conservative or oppose anything from the left you are labeled a racist and a radical.....
as I think about it.....I am so sick of people screaming racist when they want to get out of something.......the people who accuse others of being racist are actually the ones who are racist.....so the next time someone says that they need to be simply told to shut up! its like with Obama if you did not vote for him or dont like him then liberals will say you are racist.......ridiculous....he is half white so which half of me is racist because I cant stand him or his idiotic policies.....
To require identification prior to voting is something that will greatly impact the poor (and usually this is a lot of minorities). While some people may think that $15.00 or $20.00 is no big deal, to some people it is--it is money better spent on groceries, transportation to and from work, etc. Requiring ID would also impact a homeless person's ability to vote.
This is why republicans are always pushing this idea, to include, "What's the big deal?" As studies suggest, the majority of low-income people as well as minorities vote democrat.
Requiring identification in order to vote, is effectively charging people to vote. If you can't afford to vote, you shouldn't vote?
While I am not a minority, I have been in the low income bracket(sorry, but that sounds better to me that poor, ). So yes, I understand the part about the money being a big deal, believe me. BUT...I still agree that a photo I.D. is a good idea. I read back, and habee mentioned that it would be government issued? Well, then maybe a compromise could be made, not charging people for this...
As far as your comment about low-income people voting democrat, well, I have to respectfully disagree. We live in--what has been for a few years--a very economically challenged part of Ohio. Last election, we took a drive around this county and the surrounding ones--the majority of political signs in front yards and storefronts were Republican...not just a slight majority--an overwhelming one.
How DOES a homeless person vote, by the way? If they don't have a permanent residence, or a driver's license, how do they prove who they are, and that they have a right to vote in whatever area they are in? This is something I hadn't thought about before, so now I'm curious...
it has always been illegal in FL to not have a photo idea......case closed....if you can afford anything,,,,clothes, crack...whatever, you can get an I.D
The question is not "can you" but "will you".
A photo ID is yet another stumbling block in the path of a class of people who already feel disenfranchised and see no merit in voting for a system that will continue to screw them.
The vote should be made easier to obtain, not harder.
but if you cannot prove who you are then how do we know there is not voter fraud involved like there has been such as the finding of people who are dead voting? The answer is you cant prove someone is who they say they are which can not be allowed. With the population our country has an I.D is neccessary...i bet people would get one to buy alcohol........if its important enough people will find a way......a simple state ID is less expensive the a drivers license so no excuse....
How many dead people?
And how many people willing to vote as a dead person?
And aren't the very few who might take this advantage likely just to cancel each other out? Y'know, a republican vote for dead auntie Aggy, a democratic vote for dead uncle sid?
And if people are really intent on voter fraud then they'll just get forged IDs.
look it up, its a fact that people have used that tactic...... I learned about it while working for the gov.
I disagree...and like I said before, I have been a part of this "class of people", as you put it. I didn't feel disenfranchised, and wouldn't, just because I now needed a photo I.D. to vote.
Voting should not be made easier--it can't get much easier! If you are a legal resident of the U.S. and want to vote, then you need to prove it TO vote. You have to prove it for many other things, so why not voting?
I feel strongly about this, because, if we don't have to prove who we are, heck, anyone could come from anywhere to vote...and I think that voting should only be for those who are affected by the results, don't you?
I would like to clarify that I am below low class, last year I made less than $8000 all year and that was before taxes, and I am one of those right wing nuts that you've been warned about. Furthermore I've met quite a few minorities and poor that are conservative because they feel that the conservative values are more in line with what they want then the Democrat or Liberal values.
The GOP voter ID campaign may or not be racist. However, it's clearly aimed at suppressing likely Democratic voters.
I agree that's their motivation. But it's not like they don't have a point.
I wonder if there will ever be scrutiny, though, into the trashing of likely Democratic (but valid) voter registrations, like that perpetrated by Kathleen Harris in Florida in 2000. Probably not.
The American Left has forever hated Voter ID, proving your citizenship would cut their voting bloc to nothing.
Hello Habee, i haven't seen you around for a while. Nice to see you
To answer the question, No. I hardly think it's racist.
I don't see it as being racist, either, but there could be something about the requirement that I don't understand. I would love to hear some feedback from African Americans and other minorities.
Great to see you, too! I've been having more health issues, but I'm feeling better now.
I actually wrote a hub about this. My Governor, Jay Nixon vetoed a bill that would have required voter id, he made the same claims as the guy from Georgia. I have to agree with TMMason's assessment of the situation.
It is kind of strange how something so easy to get can cause such a commotion. Maybe its not that they object to proving citizenship as much as its not being able to vote more than once because they left a paper trail.
Um everyone had to present a photo ID so we don't vote more than once... DUMB people... Eh
Not all states require a photo ID for voting. In fact, only 14 require a photo ID. 16 states accept non-photo IDs, like a power bill. I guess the remaining 20 states don't require any proof of ID at all?
Where I live they are just as interested in the power bill than the photo ID, because it tells where you really live, and therefor determine what all one can vote on, on a local level. But, I think I needed both when I first registered.
Photo ID's only have to be gotten once in a life time, at least here.
The argument against goes like this: While most Americans have government-issued photo ID, studies show that as many as 12% of eligible voters nationwide do not; the percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many of those citizens find it hard to get such IDs, because the underlying documentation (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult to come by. Those difficulties will increase substantially if documentary proof of citizenship is needed to vote or to obtain the identification required to vote.
Another argument against is that depending on the state and the details of the proposed policy, this would also involve the purchase of new equipment, expansion of the locations and working hours of government ID-issuing offices, and the provision of official government photo ID to voters without charging a fee.
Addressing the first argument against: There are literally thousands of community activist field offices spread across the entire US that are government funded,( read you and me ), local and national, like ACORN, PICO, and US Action, that have the manpower and facilities to provide assistance to those having problems obtaining a photo ID...
As to the second argument against, since when has government cared about cost or adding on more bureaucracy..? Besides, it is in our best national interest to insure the one person, one vote policy is protected and should be enforced regardless of cost..
The real fraud is the failure of some states to not insure their military units serving overseas are provided timely ballots to be included in the final tally...I think it is simply outrageous that our men and women in harms way are denied this right...Larry
I am from the diametrically-opposite end of the political spectrum, and I agree with you.
BTW, I was one of those people serving the government overseas (with the Peace Corps) that was twice denied my ballot even though I followed, to the letter, the process of getting an overseas ballot, many, many months ahead of schedule. The state: Arizona.
The assumptions in the argument against providing a photo identification are demeaning to those who they are purported to champion. Are minorities incapable of getting a driver's license - why? Is there a presumption by those who oppose photo IDs for voting that minorities are less capable, less intelligent, lazier? My home state requires a photo ID and has fought, successfully, to keep that requirement. The Department of Motor Vehicles issues photo IDs as well as a drivers license. This is not a poll tax or other test to prove eligibility. It does, however, require that you vote once and be a citizen.
Perhaps that is the nature of the disagreement. Making voter fraud more difficult will interfere with the political plans of some. If only those who fight so hard against IDs laws fought just as hard to guarantee military ballots. I also think the absentee and early voting rules are problematic.
I think it's ridiculous!
Anyone should be allowed to vote if they live here!
Many people cannot afford a car, hence no license. Many people cannot afford to send off for birth certificate....costs $50.00 to get a copy, you know.
In my view, this is a way to stop people from voting, and that is disgusting in a country that prides itself on being free to do so.
It's a calculated effort to end voting rights, IMO. And nothing new.
I don't know where you live, but here in Ohio, it's not $50.00--it's less than half that...
You need an ID for so many things these days, so why doesn't everyone just get one, then they will have it for whatever comes up? The schools and colleges around here take photo IDs, so most of the younger crowd could just use those for many years. Or does it have to be a standard ID of some sort--I might have missed that part...
I don't understand why anyone would see this as a way to end voting rights, sorry...
In WY, getting a copy of one's birth certificate only costs $13. And photo ID's don't cost that much.
In Indiana, the price is $13, unless you are over 65 or disabled than it is $10, unless you are unable to pay. With proper documentation of your inability to pay, there is no charge for a photo ID.
That is so hateful. Hoosier bigots.
My kids were born in Colorado. We live in Mass. To get a copy from Colorado costs $50.00....many years ago. Probly more now. And it took a long time...weeks....probly too long to make the next voting cycle
Then you should have got one a long time ago and you wouldn't have this problem.
And as to Mass., anyone can vote in that state. Doesn't matter if your legal or illegal. That state is a perfect example of what is wrong with this nation.
Should have got one a long time ago...errr--they WERE born you know!
Things get lost....I'm not perfect. Sh*t happens....
But I see, we must be punished for it. Always by the moral indignationists....except when it comes to them, of course.
Why, this voter id law is just the gubment adding more restrictions on your freedoms "for your own good".
FORCED id? My my my!
If they are forcing it, they should pay for it....have a photo booth set up right there at the voting station. Free photo-id...for your voting lifetime!
I have mine from when i was born.
And if I did not I would have got another... simple.
Not expect everyone to do as I wanted cause I could not be responsible and handle my bussiness.
And if your kids are old enough to vote then they are old enough to get a job abd pay for thier own IDs.
The fact is the American Left does not want to lose its illegal voting bloc.
It is simple enough to see.
By implication then,the right are quite happy to lose their illegal voting block!
You know that illegality it not confined to the left don't you, there's plenty on the right who are as bent as a nine bob note.
We don't have voter ID in the UK and we have little voter fraud. It generally balances itself out, the left pull a few votes and the right pull a few votes, all equal.
What a lawless people you must be.
Actually a great majority of illegals, if not all, vote democrat, as they are well aware that the left, and Progressive Right to a lesser degree, is the party of Amnesty and no borders.
So it may be in England that it balances out... but it does not here. And to ignore that they are criminals by definitoon to begin with... and then ignore when they commit another crime by illegally voting... is absurd.
I do not care who they vote for... I care that they should not be voting. Period!
How do illegals vote?
Surely that is bringing themselves to the notice of the authorities and the likely hood of detection.
Even if that is not the case it will surely be the perception of illegal immigrants?
And I find your "great majority, if not all" more than a little suspect. What percentage of the electorate actually vote, 30-40% and yet you tell me that 100% of illegal immigrants vote!
I don't think so.
They do not need an ID or to prove citizenship... so how do you think they would be caught?
And anybody at the voting station that asks about citizenship would probrably be sued into eternal poverty by the Leftist treasonous Commie lovin Socialist ACLU.
Another Org that need to be routed form this country.
Probably the same way that they are caught in the UK.
They live in your country, they are citizens!
Around here, they send you a census. Where you live, who lives with you, etc...to prove you actually live in town. If you don't fill it out, your name's not on the list, you don't vote. No photo required..but LIVING in the town is. Makes more sense that way to me.
And it doesn't cost me but a stamp.
It is the wild west, John. I even know an Indian or two, sometimes strap on a six shooter and mount Old Paint for a good ride.
Well there are plenty of cowboys on here.
Why do you refer to your wife as "Old Paint"
Careful old chum, she reads that and I will be ducking the rolling pin and flying skillet.
Well at least I won't, unless she has a very strong throw.
lucky you. I may not sleep very well tonight. Better make sure Old Paint is well harnessed and tied up.
I just finished hiding all the knives. Worst thing is, I taught her to shoot. Dear lord, I can't find the .22 Beretta. Well, mate, it has been fun.
No greater guarantor of marital fidelity than a woman who knows how to shoot.
I was born in Colorado in 1984, to get my Birth Certificate from Colorado in 2007 (the last time I ordered it) it only cost postage to mail the form. Now it did cost $45.00 if I wanted them to overnight mail it back to me, but I thought why rush it and so I waited the week it took and got one for free. I guess the cost of a BC in Colorado has drastically changed since your kid was needing it vs. now.
I doubt it has changed... Chris like to pad the wad.
Histrionic is the word, I believe.,
I had to comment, both my Husband and I have had to send off for our BC neither of us had to pay anything, he was born in Texas and I was born in Colorado, and we both now live in Missouri.
My Mom was born in New York, she also had to mail off for her BC. Missouri law now requires a BC to renew your drivers lic. Again Mom didn't have to pay anything.
I love it when someone claims that it costs x amount for a BC, I think people make claims like that because they figure there is no way someone else will come along with the same circumstance and be able to prove them wrong.
Errr no, it's because I lived it. That makes 2 of you who have implied I'm a liar.
That says a lot about you.
Did I say, I love it when lovemychris says something that she can't back up? Nope I sure didn't, you want to think I am calling you a liar, maybe that is a guilty conscious on your part.
I was responding to a comment by TMMason, if you have a guilty conscious that is hardly my fault, and definitely something you should address.
"I think people make claims like that because they figure there is no way someone else will come along with the same circumstance and be able to prove them wrong."
So, I didn't live what I said I lived. That would make me a liar about my life.
So, how was my childhood? I'm dying to know.
Still failing to see where your name came up in that, sounds to me like you are feeling guilty if you assume that comment was based on you directly... not sure why you want me to tell you how your childhood was, I am not your psychiatrist.
I didn't "imply" anything.
I stated straight out, you're histrionic.
Go read your previous posts in about every topic thread.
There is no lil thing with you, it is all mountains of blah blah blah BS.
Definition of HISTRIONIC
1: deliberately affected : theatrical
2: of or relating to actors, acting, or the theater
I didn't say you were a liar... I said you exagerrate and over-dramatize everything to give your argument more force. Just like most leant leftists I have ever dealt with.
Yeah, sorry LMC, but he does have a point there--you DO tend to be pretty histrionic-al at times, lol...(no offense)
That's ridiculous. There is nothing histrionic at all in this thread....except 2 people implying I'm lying about my own life!
That's trying to re-write history......like all righty's I know.
It's a calculated effort to prevent voter fraud, so it's no suprise you are against it.
You already have to have an ID, it's called a social security card. In my state, they make you get one at birth.
That's what they tell you. You believe it, I don't.
The GOP cloaks its voter ID proposals in it's claim of preventing voter fraud, but its sole purpose is suppressing likely Democratic votes as Maven correctly observed--the elderly, minorities, people without driver's licenses, etc. However, he overestimates the effect of organizations that assist elderly and incapacitated voters.
Yes as I said if we require ID to vote/proof of citizenship, the Democrats will lose half their voting bloc.
Nice to know you agree.
You do it by fading into the back-ground and moving to a Democratic state where you know amnesty cities exist and you will not be questioned regardless of what you do.
I like the idea of making voting a challenge. It is a precious thing to exercise ones franchise and anyone who truly understands and values that franchise will do anything to use it. The idea that there is a right to vote is a misconception. No one who meets the criteria for citizen and voter can be barred from voting but a right, no.
I crawled from the sick bed, vomiting and running a 103 degree temperature to vote in a primary. I would have crawled through hell in a gasoline suit to vote. If someone cannot find a way to get properly registered and identified to vote, I would prefer they not vote.
So would the Right-wingers...hence the voter id law. Like I said, it's nothing new. Why do you think The Hammer is going to prison?
Us evil right-wingers only want people who are legally allowed to vote participating in the process. Shame on us.
you agree that it is shameful to only want people who are legal to vote, voting? I am just looking for clarification. Because if you think it is shameful to only want those legally allowed to vote, participating in the process that must mean that you are wanting anyone who can push forward your agenda, legal or not participating in the process... its always nice when you know what the other side of the aisle is up to. Don't forget the motto of the left, Vote Early and Often.
This is going to come out horrible, and I'm probably going to take a lot of slack for it...
... but, if you can't be bothered enough to get your hands on a photo id for the sake of voting, then I can't see how you can be entrusted with spending society's money.
"MAKING ME GET A PHOTO ID IS EVIL!!!... I want you to pay for my welfare, though".
(NO - I'm not saying that black people are all on welfare. I'm saying that people who can't get photo ids likely are).
I agree 1000%.
Exactly perfectly correct, Evan.
You won't get any crap from me with that comment; I agree completely.
If a democrat had proposed it, I'll BET you would say it intrudes on your freedom.
You have that backwards, if the Right wants to protect life, it is the left who screams out wildly in protest "WOMEN'S RIGHTS". When the Right wants a balanced budget, the left screams out "What about the poor UNIONS. I could go on and on with examples of how the left tries to imply that the Right trying to take away some freedom you hold dearly, but that is getting off topic.
What Evan is saying rings true, if someone cannont be bothered to present ID they shouldn't be spending other people's money.
This cartoon says it all...if we have to show I.D. for all of these things, then why shouldn't we for something as important as voting?
Then don't call right-wingers anti gvt!!! This is big gvt with more intrusion on the individual!~ TO VOTE!!, a RIGHT of living here!
(histrionic enough? But you see--I feel things passionately!)
What??? I am neither right nor left wing, but maybe you don't remember that...I agree with some of the left, and some of the right, and try to keep an open mind as much as I can...Yes, we all have a right to vote, IF we are here legally, and have proof of it--that's how I feel about that.
I feel things passionately, too...I have just learned through the years that calmer is better, if you want to get a point across...
LMC - don't confuse me with the Anti-liberal Conservative nitwit. You do me harm in such foolish slanders.
In my frame of reference this whole debate is pointless: who cares who is able to vote - voting is merely a way for the majority to steal from the minority.
Honestly, it DOES intrude on freedom.
But so does voting.
Really, libertarianism could go both ways on this one because the premise is flawed:
*IF* we NEED voting, then:
1) Fraud should be prevented through a free-market solution (photo ids should be provided through the market)
2) It should be completely free for anyone whatsoever no matter what.
But most hardcore libertarians would argue "voting is an act of tyranny, it should be done away with"
I don't see it as racist. But, I'm not sure why it would be required. As if the people working the voting booths will remember every ID they look at? You hand over your voter registration card, your name is marked off of the register. Not like anyone could use your name to vote twice.
I do, however, see it as another step added to stand in the way of everyone being able to vote.
I don't have a voter registration card, and never have. None of the states I've lived in required it. Just some form of ID
And are illegal immigrants really going to put their name on the register?
Seems a bit of a high risk strategy to me.
Oh, if they are worried about illegal immigrants voting they are chasing shadows. The party machines would be the only ones perpetuating voter fraud and they wouldn't utilize illegals. Landslide Lyndon being a good case in point.
From the Washington Times, Sept. 2004
U.S. citizens who go to the polls Nov. 2 to decide local, state and national elections are likely to get more help from noncitizens this year than ever before.
Beyond requiring applicants to sign a pledge on voter-registration forms affirming that they are U.S. citizens, there is no way to prevent the nation’s estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens from casting ballots in November, area elections officials said.
Locally, only Virginia requires voters to provide their Social Security numbers, but the state does not require voters to show their Social Security cards.
“There is no way of checking,” said Maryland State Board of Elections Administrator Linda H. Lamone. “We have no way of doing that. We have no access to any information about who is in the United States legally or otherwise.”
Nationally, immigration experts said it is likely that illegal immigrants vote, but that only a small percentage does so.
“Evidence suggests very few illegal aliens vote, but it’s certainly not zero,” said Steven Camarota, director of research at the D.C.-based Center for Immigration Studies. “Illegal aliens don’t come to America to vote, and would generally try to avoid doing so.”
Today, there are roughly 8 million illegal aliens in the United States who are of voting age, he said.
Mr. Camarota said more legal immigrants who are not citizens might be voting illegally.
“The whole system isn’t well-guarded,” he said. “There’s no system in place to really prevent illegal aliens from voting or even to deter them from voting.”
Six Maryland municipalities — Chevy Chase, Takoma Park, Garrett Park, Barnesville, Martin’s Additions and Somerset — allow noncitizens to vote only in local elections. However, in state and national elections, voters must meet the state standards for voter registration.
Given the predicted close election this year and the 2000 election that was decided by a small number of votes, Mr. Camarota said even the few aliens who do vote could make a difference in the results.
Only first-time voters are required to provide photo identification in Virginia and the District. No jurisdiction requires voters to show proof of citizenship at the polls.
No federal agency keeps records of which undocumented immigrants are in the country, Mrs. Lamone said.
Maryland does ensure, through an extensive process of cross-database checks and balances, that there are no deceased persons or felons on its voter rolls.
Barbara Cockrell, assistant secretary of the Virginia State Board of Elections, said the state has a computerized voter-registration system that uses Social Security numbers as unique identifiers. The state constitution requires that voters provide their numbers, which she said are kept private.
Miss Cockrell said asking on the registration forms whether applicants are citizens provides the needed safeguards.
“They take an oath under penalty of perjury,” she said. “After the first time, we don’t ask them to bring ID.”
Bill O’Field, a spokesman for the D.C. Board of Elections and Ethics, said the penalty for lying on the voter-registration form is a maximum five-year prison sentence or a $10,000 fine.
Other than for first-time voters who registered by mail, “there’s no checking of ID,” he said.
Dan Stein, president of the D.C.-based Federation for American Immigration Reform, said relaxed voting regulations and the ability to register to vote through the Department of Motor Vehicles allows illegal immigrants to get a form of legitimate identification.
“There are huge fraud problems out there,” he said. “There’s no safeguards on it.”
He also said those groups pushing voter-registration efforts this year don’t check to see if registrants are citizens. This flaw has the potential to “corrupt” the political system, he said.
“Aliens have already shown they are willing to break U.S. law to come here. Why should we expect them to not vote?” Mr. Stein asked. “In a system where virtually no effort is made to ensure integrity, we’d be naive to say it isn’t going on. You only need one vote to swing an election.”
Peter Rubin, professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, said many groups are “interested in suppressing the votes of minorities and using illegal tactics as a way of scaring people from coming out to the polls.”
“That has happened in many elections,” he said. “These tactics are real, continue to be used, and are underreported. It should be of concern to everyone, especially now, when everyone’s vote matters.”
"Peter Rubin, professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, said many groups are “interested in suppressing the votes of minorities and using illegal tactics as a way of scaring people from coming out to the polls.”
“That has happened in many elections,” he said. “These tactics are real, continue to be used, and are underreported. It should be of concern to everyone, especially now, when everyone’s vote matters.”
Says it all really.
U.S. citizens who go to the polls Nov. 2 to decide local, state and national elections are likely to get more help from noncitizens this year than ever before...
Says it all really.
So you can sit at a voting booth and intimidate voters who are old and white with clubs and physical intimidation... and that is just fine because the intimidaters are black democrats... everyone just smiles and claims it isn't what it is.
But do not ask for voter ID to prove you actually belong their voting, or it is racist oppression.
Throughout the whole article of how illegals are undermining our system you pick out that and assume that Mr. Rubin means preventing illegals to vote is a scare tactic to keep minorities away? Or do you pick that out to understand that voter fraud and intimidation by groups like the Black Panthers are what is causing minorities to stay away from the poles?
There is mountains of evidence of voter fraud and intimidation by the Left in this country, what more do you want. I can post articles and proof all day long, do you want to have an open mind and admit that voter fraud is a serious problem and that ID could help fix it or are you only interested in posting the same one-sided comments.
I asked if you could show me empirical evidence of Republicans involved in voter fraud, you haven't even tried to do that. What you have done is question every legit. post I've made, and not very well. It's your turn, can you prove what I am saying is false, that we don't have a problem?
OK, from the same article how about:-
"Nationally, immigration experts said it is likely that illegal immigrants vote, but that only a small percentage does so."
If there are 1 million illegal aliens and only ten percent vote is that a small percent. Fifty illegal Somalians voting in Missouri is fifty people who broke the law. How many times can a law be broken before it becomes a problem? Once, One hundred times, One million? Most people would say one person breaking a law is wrong, what about you?
However, you still haven't answered my original question, how many Republicans have been involved in Voter fraud?
Appearently 18 million + times, not to mention the million or more times a year, every year.
TMMason: I think we need to put a stop to it, for me one time that someone breaks the law is enough to say that it is wrong.
Agree whole heartedly.
What I find racist, discriminatory and bigoted , is the thought that we should allow criminals, illegals are criminals by definition, to cut into line ahead of decent folk who have done everything we have asked them to do.
How many republicans? Probably about as many as democrats, they are maybe a little more circumspect about it but they'll be there.
It defies logic to claim that only democrats carry out election fraud. Just as it would deny logic to claim that only democrats carried out tax fraud, and I know which would do most harm to a country.
Can you show me a time when a Republican (other than the left's claim that Bush stole the election) was involved in voter fraud?
As TM is quick to point out, I'm not American and some aspects of American politics are beyond me.
Do you honestly expect me to believe that no republican has ever indulged in electoral fraud?
I am saying that if you want to claim that Republicans are just as guilty as Democrats. Which you stated in an earlier post, then you need to back up that claim with some factual evidence.
Nice try getting out of it, in other words you can make any claim about America you want and if you can't prove it you can quickly fall back on, I am not an American, how would I know that I was wrong in saying that.
OK the US is unique in the whole world where only one party indulges in electoral fraud.
Now you are just being facetious, why make statements that you know you cannot back up? Do you have a lot of luck making a claim and then people just go oh, John said it, it must be true?
I just want to understand why you make claims that you don't have empirical evidence to back up, if that is wrong I apologize. I deal in facts and I expect other people to do the same, especially when discussing matters of this importance.
"Tom DeLay To Be Investigated for Voter Fraud: D.C.'s Political Report has learned that a challenge has been filed with the City of Alexandria's Voter Registrar alleging that former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's (R-TX) voter registration in Virginia was illegal. The challenge alleges that DeLay lacked domiciliary intent when he registered to vote and that he maintains legal residence in Texas. Similar to the legal action filed by the Texas Democratic Party, the challenge notes that DeLay is still registered to vote in Texas, has a Texas driver's licence and is receiving a Texas homestead exemption. Under Virginia law, DeLay has the burden of proof that he has changed his domicile. His Texas domicile is presumed to continue until he has a residence in the Virginia and the intention to remain there. DeLay's continuing presence in the Lone Star state is presumptive proof that he remains a Texas citizen."
Funny--Mitt Romney did this too! His "domiciliary intent" was a room in his kids apartment in Massachusetts, while he lived in Utah!!!
And how is 2 men standing in front of a voting place on par with a concerted effort by state officals to sway people away from voting?
That's exactly what it is...in the guise of "fairness".
LMC, Colorado birth certificates are now $17.75 each. The "fancy" heirloom certificates are $50 each.
I've never thought of you as "un-American." I do agree with Tam, however, that you'll get your points across more effectively if people view you as calm, rational, and reasonable. But then again, I get upset about some things, too, like animal abuse. I wasn't very calm OR reasonable when I confronted a store owner who was about to kill a stray dog! I bet folks in the store will never forget me! lol. And, BTW, the starving dog came home with me.
habee, I am not sure why mine was free then. When I applied they needed certain infomation to verify who I was but it didn't cost anything to get it (Again this was back in 07) so maybe it's changed since then. I filled out the form, payment was required if you wanted the BC overnight, I thought that was $45 but it might have been cheaper, it was free if you let them mail it out regular mail, and it didn't seem like it took more than a week to get it so I didn't care that it was regular mail.
Last April when my husband, who was born in Texas and was adopted needed his BC, we mailed out for it, again it wouldn't have costed anything except if we wanted it over night mailed. (He waited until the last possible moment to tell me he didn't have it) so we had to pay the overnight shipping on it. Otherwise it would have been free also. According to the Texas Dept of Health, you have to look, there are free legal ways to get a BC from the Health Dept. you are born at.
What I don't get is that most people are required ID for other things, opening a checking account, driving a car, buying certain products; did you know that Wal-Mart requires ID for spray paint and super glue. So with all of these things, it would seem logical that most legal Americans already have some sort of ID.
Before I learned to drive I had a Non-Drivers ID card, it cost ten dollars and lasted like ten years before it had to be renewed. In Missouri at least, after you reach a certain age the cost of the Non-Drivers ID is significantly diminished, and it never expires.
John: VOLUSIA COUNTY, Fla. -- Thousands of dead Floridians are registered to vote and some in Central Florida had ballots cast in their names long after their deaths.
"That is scary," said Jim Branch.
Branch's mother Marjorie died in 2004 but someone voted for her in 2006. Branch had tried to get his mother removed from the voter rolls.
"It was much easier for me calling Social Security and taking her off not getting any more checks here, than it was that (voter registration)," he sid.
County records show James Santiago voted in the 2006 general election. He too, was dead. His wife, Joann, sees this as an open invitation for voter fraud.
"I think it leaves it open to sign his name, during an election, especially an important one like this year," said Joann.
Channel Nine discovered 1,636 registered voters in Central Florida are dead.
"This is what makes Supervisors of Elections lose sleep at night," said Volusia County Supervisor of Elections Ann McFall.
McFall said it used to be easy to clear out voter rolls.
"We had two people who did nothing but cut obituary notices out of the papers," she said. "That's how we found out someone died."
But 2002's Help America Vote act, which made it easier to register to vote, also made it more difficult to remove voters from the rolls. But Orange County Election Supervisor Bill Cowles doesn't worry.
"I think the mechanisms are in place. There's enough checks and balances in place," he said.
However, 90 days before the election, voter rolls can't be changed and if the state doesn't tell elections offices a voter has died, that voter can be on the rolls for years.
"The minute I said he was deceased, they should've made note, they should've done whatever they had to do, the people sitting behind that table, they should have done something," said Joann Santiago
Elections supervisors say they are pushing the state to allow them to accept death certificates from families as reasonable evidence to remove dead voters from the rolls.
TOMORROW AT 5 ON EYEWITNESS NEWS: See how big the problem is nationwide.
Copyright 2009 by wftv.com
Thousands dead and a few have had their votes used!
Some no doubt for democrats and some no doubt for republicans and some no doubt for totally no hope parties.
True, registered voters die every day. Few votes are cast in their names. Florida stole the election for Bush over Gore and the theft was confirmed by the Supreme Court. That was the election theft in Florida.
Ralph I hate to break it to you but if you look at the copyright at the end of this article this occured in 2009, in fact if you notice the story starts out with a woman who died in 2004, we really need to move on from the Bush stole the election rhetoric. It is old news.
John Voter Fraud is a huge deal. We shouldn't brush it aside because it's only a few thousand, or a few hundred thousand. It is an important matter.
For the record though, other than Ralph's "Bush stole the election" can you list another factual time when a Republican was involved in voter fraud? By factual I mean back it up with empirical evidence not issued by the Democrat's or the MSM?
Can you list a time when a democrat was involved in voter fraud?
I very much doubt if it involves a few hundred thousand, I'd be sceptical about a few thousand. And this fraud would be spread across all parties, not one side only.
Google, Acorn voter fraud.
They ain't right-wing.
And they ain't left wing either. It appears to me that several individuals working for Acorn were submitting multiple registrations for personal financial gain, with no indication of the voting intentions of those registered.
Acorn isn't left wing... wait I have to stop laughing.... oh, you are serious, I thought you were joking with that post.
The people perpetrating the fraud, nor the people who were being illegally registered.
Wow... you have no clue about America politics, or the groups, orgs, parties or players involved.... Wow.
Just plainly self evident.
A bit like you and the UK, eh? Only I don't pretend to know.
Wasn't me claiming that a far Left group wasn't far Left... you all deny your own so much it is second nature, you just spout it out... "they ain't one of us!"... couldn't even google it and see.
What far left group did I deny was far left?
John I can list an exact time when a Democrat was involved in fraud and it happened in our last election in the primary leading up to the 2010 election for Missouri. According to the Washington Post here are two documented cases of voter fraud:
One of the most brazen cases of voter fraud occurred in a state representative race in Kansas City, Mo., last year. It was a Democratic primary between J.J. Rizzo and Will Royster in a district where the victor was certain to win the general election. Rizzo received about 50 votes illegally cast by citizens of Somalia. The Somalis, who didn’t speak English, were coached to vote for Rizzo by an interpreter at the polling place. Rizzo ended up winning by one vote.
In another example, an 18-month study by Minnesota Majority found that 341 felons in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area illegally voted in the 2008 election. Compared with the 2.7 million votes cast in the state, 341 seems insignificant. But after the recount of the U.S. Senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken, Franken’s margin of victory was only 312 votes. The illegal votes cast by felons were not discovered until after the recount, making 341 an awfully significant number.
Notice how both of these documented cases involve Democrats.
Here you go... call them up and ask them Chris... no 50 dollars BCs unless you want an hieloom BC.
Colorado County Vital Records Offices
Adams (303) 220-9200 Kit Carson (719) 346-5950
Alamosa (719) 589-6681 Lake (719) 486-0708
Arapahoe (303) 220-9200 La Plata (970) 247-5702
Archuleta (970) 264-2409 Larimer (970) 498-6710
Baca (719) 523-4262 Las Animas (719) 846-2213
Bent (719) 456-6042 Lincoln (719) 743-2796
Boulder/Boulder (303) 441-1100 Logan (970) 522-3741 X0
Boulder/Longmont (303)678-6166 Mesa (970) 248-6956
Broomfield (720)887-2270 Mineral (719) 658-2497
Chaffee (Salida) (719) 539-2311 Moffat (970) 824-8233
Chaffee (Buena Vista (719) 395-8643 Montezuma (970) 565-3728
Cheyenne (719) 767-5616 Montrose (970) 249-3362
Crowley (719) 267-5222 Morgan (970) 867-4918
Custer (719) 783-2441 Otero (719) 383-3040
Delta (970) 874-2150 Ouray (970) 325-4487
Denver (303) 602-3660 Park (719) 836-4222
Dolores (970) 677-2381 Phillips/Holyoke (970) 854-3350
Douglas (303) 220-9200 Prowers (719) 336-8721
Eagle (970) 328-8840 Pueblo (719) 583-4306
Elbert (303) 646-4127 Rio Blanco (970) 878-9460
El Paso (719) 575-8492 Rio Grande (719)657-3334
Fremont (Canon City) (719) 275-1556 Routt (970) 879-1632
Garfield (970) 945-2377 X1950 San Juan (970) 387-5488
Grand (970) 725-3347 X110 San Miguel (970) 725-4451
Gunnison (970)641-0209 Sedgwick (970) 474-3473
Hinsdale (970) 944-2515 Summit (970) 453-3475
Huerfano (719) 738-2650 Teller (719) 689-8034
Jefferson (303) 271-6450 Washington (970) 345-6562
Kiowa (719) 438-5590 Weld (970) 304-6410
Weld/DelCamino (720) 652-4240 x8842
Yuma/Yuma (970) 848-3878
Yuma/Wray (970) 332-4431
Maybe you will take thier own words for it... but I doubt it... the Left doesn't seem to acccept someone's own words about something as good enough to take as true.
They are probrably no more reliable in thier own words than the Muslims, eh.
This is what I've seen: local Democratic politicians hold huge barbecues for minorities right before election day. I've also read about D voter fraud. But the Republicans aren't innocent, either, although they don't concentrate on voter fraud as much as direct voter intimidation - like telling minorities the polls were closed when they weren't. Both sides are guilty!
I stil don't see how requiring a photo ID is voter intimidation. I'm all for EVERY legal citizen having the right to vote. If they can't afford a photo ID, one should be supplied free of charge.
habee, I have not heard of Republicans telling minorities the polls are closed. I have heard of the Black Panthers intimidating Republican voters during the 2008 election.
Did your example happen at the local or state level, I would like to look it up.
I know it happened locally a few years back, and similar activities occurred in the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections in Florida.
I think the overwhelming majority of both parties are honest about voting and voters' rights, but there are some on both sides who are scoundrels. I think voting is one of our most precious rights and one of our most important responsibilities as citizens. What the New Black Panthers did was wrong, and what a handful of rednecks have done in the Deep South is wrong, too.
"Mark Jacoby, owner of a firm hired by the state GOP, allegedly broke the law with his own registration.
October 20, 2008|Evan Halper | Times Staff Writer The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud.
State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that all signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California. His firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM, collects petition signatures and registers voters in California and other states."
MADISON – A formal challenge to be filed later today against Republican recall petitions asks the Government Accountability Board to disqualify thousands of invalid signatures, and reject recall elections against three Democratic state senators, because widespread and systemic election fraud has tainted the entire GOP operation.
“The overwhelming evidence clearly shows a pervasive pattern of election fraud committed by the shady out-of-state organization hired by Republicans to collect recall petitions,” said Senate Democratic Leader Mark Miller. “Thousands of Wisconsin citizens fell victim to lies and misinformation spread by the circulators, and the papers submitted by this operation contain a river of omissions and wrong information.”
The Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday evening that Mark Anthony Jacoby, owner of a for-profit group called Young Political Majors (YPM), pled guilty to voter registration fraud in Los Angeles. Brad Freidman of the BradBlog has been keeping tabs on Jacoby for months, and wrote yesterday:
"Jacoby and Young Political Majors were hired by the California Republican Party to head up their voter registration efforts in the state. Jacoby had been arrested for Voter Registration Fraud last October, smack dab during the media's orgasmic heights of last year's phony GOP ACORN "Voter Fraud" hoax, even as Fox "News" (and the other news outlets who similarly fell for the scam) were going wall-to-wall with their unsupported insinuations about voter fraud by ACORN, Democrats and Obama."
Republicans involved in voter fraud?
About 3,750,000 results (0.18 seconds)
Sorry, but you asked..and it's quite clear that some people want to make this all about ACORN and the black panthers....they are small-time compared to the Repub Machine.
Relevant to the OP:
"Earlier this week, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals sided with Ohio Republicans in ruling that the Secretary of State must “establish a system of verification that would match driver’s license numbers or Social Security numbers with new voter applications.” Today, the Supreme Court reversed the ruling, saying the lower courts were wrong to get involved in the issue.
Had the Republicans prevailed, about 200,000 new voters whose registrations don’t match state files exactly could have been forced to cast rarely-counted provisional ballots."
Road-Blocks so people CAN'T vote!! That's crazy-time!
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