With the 10 year anniversary of one of the worst attacks on American soil and with very little answers as to how 19 hijacker can take over 4 commercial airliners and make NORAD stand down from sending jets to intercept the planes. My question is do you think 9/11 was an inside job?
No, I don't think so and why should it be? I bet the answers are known by the authorities, but why should they tell the whole world about it, compromising security. As far as lessons are learned and necessary positive actions are taken from the findings, I am okay with that.
They compromise their own necks by telling the truth. It has nothing to do with security. Imploding buildings require explosives, just like in Las Vegas.
Well, thanks for exposing your true intentions on starting a over-discussed debate all for the purpose of seeing some profits through your hub. You make me sick, excuse me while I go vomit.
Truth is that is all the truthers are.people who are clueless going on the lecture circuit saying anything they want, claiming all kinds of false credentials, simply to make money. And of course Bush haters bought it hook line and sinker
I asked a friend, a retired Army Ranger and Vietnam Veteran "Lerp", if he could have planned and executed such a take over of four jets with just 19 men. He said, "It was a modest operation. Could do more with less, if given the right equipment, planning and motivation."
15 SEALS in four boats faked an amphibious landing during the Gulf War convincing the Iraqis that there was at least a battalions strength landing.
Small SEAL teams launch bold raids all the time.
http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/nationwor … -searches/
MORE INSIDE JOBS?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/ … raids.html
Training, preparation, coordination, operational discipline and motivation are all that is required to launch an attack. The passengers on those planes were told there were bombs on board. Flight 93 went down because the passenger knew there was no bomb - it still killed everyone aboard.
What would have happened today if passengers rushed someone threatening the plane and beat them to death(justifiable, I would say)
We have been told to cooperate with hijackers, hostage takers, etc.... Bad advice - that is for you to decide.
I know one thing, if a man is serious enough about destruction he can and will accomplish it if given the time and resources.
Unfortunately, that's true. It's happened quite a few times in our country's history, starting with Booth's assassination of Lincoln.
@uncorrectedvision Flight 93 is the biggest mystery to me aside from building 7 and how the world trade towers came down. No one talks about how that plane crash with no passagers surviving or no black box, I mean it a total black out when it comes that.
I believe it was. It was more than likely another Pearl Harbor. Every time there is a wartime President they get reelected. Not too mention that Bin Laden said himself that he had nothing to do with the attacks. Personally if I was an extremist and I used box knife's to attack and pummel one of the greatest countries in the world with all of their technological superiority, then I would want to be on the front page of every paper saying "this is what I did". Whether this was Bush's idea or his Daddy's friends who pulled the strings is another question.
yes.. an inside job... formulated and carried out inside Al-Qaeda
I was not there so I can't really say it. But weather is an inside job or not it won't matter at all. They can never bring back the lives of those who died during that time!
@LhouvieBlue Very true but the real reason why this question has to be asked is, if it is an inside job and they really needed a reason to go into Afghanistan and iraq and all these other place. If they could that and get away with it, what else would they try to set there agenda.
I'm not sure if it was or not, but I remember watching a documentary with a physics professor explaining that he thought it was. The professor thought that a bomb was planted on a lower level or something because of the rate of the building collapsing...it was an interesting theory.
There is no doubt that 911 was a inside job. There is just to many inconsistencies in the whole story fed to us by the government and biased US media for it not to be an inside job.
Just think for a moment - a director/producer with a few millions dollars in his hand can out together films that defy belief what do you think the filthy rich US business men and greedy politicians can do with hands on the controls of power.
This has gone on for generations where power brokers - in order to maintain there power base and hoard more wealth have politicised certain issues and have used war as a way of diverting attention from the real crimes that they undertake.
I can't decide if it was an inside job but it's not that fantastical a notion. The Gulf of Tonkin attack was a fictitious fraud that allowed the Vietnam invasion. Operation Northwoods in the 1960's posited the scenario of hi-jacked planes. Except this was the CIA planning to commit terrorist atrocities and blaming it on Cuba.
No 9/11 smoking gun but certainly the official account raises many questions. One of the most curious concerns the 3rd building to fall. World Trade Centre 7, The Saloman Brothers Building. It's not even mentioned in the official enquiry into 9/11.
"Gulf of Tonkin attack was a fictitious fraud."
True, but not nearly as complex and harmful to Americans as 9-11. As I recall it was just a big lie used to justify escalation of our warfare in Vietnam.
The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.
In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that the Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there may not have been any North Vietnamese Naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated:
It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. [...] In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on August 2.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who worked in the twin towers, but just happened to not be there on that day, is a suspect. Why not follow the new rules of the Patriot Act, round them all up and detain them until this whole thing can be sorted out? Yeah, you’ll have some innocent people detained, but probably less percentage than the current justice system.
This and the others is who this is for.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/03 … d-justice/
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/07 … ou-to-see/
What is the modern obsession with conspiracy theories? The attacks were the work of terrorists, who had been deluded into believing that they had a place in paradise awaiting them for killing innocent people. To turn the attention away from those who committed and would still commit such evil acts, would seem to let them off the hook.
And how much did you look into this? Just what the media told you?
@Holmes221b Really Holmes you also must believe that osama bin laden was actually killed in pakastan by navy seals. Those same navy seals came home in a body bag a month ago. And to make things clear I'm not a com piracy theorist, i'm just a firm believer that people should question everything that the government says, kinda like you would a used car sales man who wants nothing more then to just make money buy selling you the biggest pile of crap on the lot. Remember theres nothing wrong with asking questions.
Holmes, I have another conspiracy for you, that the housing bubble was preplanned and that they, mainly just Republicans this time, are planning another one down the road, perhaps before 2020.
There are a lot of unanswered questions, and I'd love to have answers for them.
But until there's actual evidence of wrongdoing, I'm not going to be throwing around accusations of treason.
W and his administration were certainly opportunistic, possibly corrupt, and probably incompetent, but I don't believe even Dick Cheney capable of colluding in the 9/11 attacks. They were bad for America, but they weren't actually evil.
@Jeff Actually Dick cheney was the primary person who told NORAD to stand down from send fighter jets to intercept those planes. Believe me guy, if i had to say cheney knew more about the event then George W bush. That came out in the in the Morman Mineta's testmony of the 9/11 commission. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfra6Xtsh9A
"Dick cheney was the primary person who told NORAD to stand down from send fighter jets to intercept those planes"
Sure but why did he do that? There are several possibilities:
1) He wanted the attacks to succeed.
2) He was afraid that shooting down the jetliners would either
a) cause even worse damage and greater loss of life, spread out over a greater area of Manhattan
b) freak everyone out and destabilize the country--the USA is shooting down passenger planes!
c) or both
3) He knew that those pilots would have to choose between potentially disobeying an order to shoot down an unarmed civilian airliner, or following that order and becoming the pilot who shot down an unarmed civilian airliner.
Ordering the fighters to stand down isn't by itself evidence of wrongdoing or evil intent.
(Jeez, this is me defending Dick friggin' Cheney over here. Can you believe this?)
I'd be more interested in an investigation of whether and why family members of Osama Bin Laden were allowed to leave US territory before other non-military flights were allowed in the air.
@Jeff I was about to ask you why you where defending cheney there. lol The purpose of the fighter jets is primarily to shot down craft but it also there job to communicate with the pilots as to what going on on board. We learned nothing because our vice president at the time made no attempt to see or know what was going on which in my opinion make him war criminal and a traitor to this country because he help aid the so called terrorist in there plot. But hey we all know cheney never had a heart to begin with. Also why was the bin laden family allowed to leave especially the worst attacks in US history just accured? to many bloody questions with no answers. I dont believe the official story and neither should anyone if you have doubts.
Here is a better question. Why was the Bin Laden family in the White House during 9/11? Also, why was a US intelligence agency (the National Reconnaissance Office or NRO) all set for an exercise at 9 AM on September 11th in which an aircraft would crash into one of its buildings near Washington, DC.
Without the mock terrorist drill taking place on 9-11, no planes could hv reached their targets. Stroke of luck a TRILLION to ONE coincidence for the terrorist?
There was also a mock drill taking place in Madrid on 7/7.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? … mp;aid=821
And remember that odd incident on a lake....Obama was on a boat,and there was a missile threat, or something......they said, (once again): "We were staging a mock incident"!!!!
Did you even watch the video, Cheney said no such thing Minetta never says anything like that Get real. At least use a video that slightly backs your opinion, not one that does not back anything you say
Amen. Conspiracy theories and urban legends are a dime a dozen.
Then explain, Ralph, why the Taliban went to Texas in 1997, reported only by the BBC for the most part? Why did they reject the pipeline to Halliburton investments in the Caspian Sea and refuse to work with Unocal and what were the consequences? The motive for Cheney to get that pipeline was his main reason for running for vice president.
I don't have the faintest idea. Why don't you explain?
Here's what I consider to be a factual and rational explanation on who was responsible for the 9-11 attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibi … 11_attacks
The Taliban went to Texas in 1997. They refused to build the pipeline to Haliburton investments in the Caspian Sea. That gave Cheney a massive desire to enter Afghanistan and go to war.
Taliban never went to Texas. We went down this road before and you still want to spout phony stories. Guess some never change their spots
Did I miss something, I thought Ralph didn't believe the government story? If so I take back what I said earlier.
I think that your question is wholly and entirely disrespectful at this time.
What are you looking for - SEO???
Please, above all, a bit of respect and decorum to the fallen, above all else...
@Gordon Really my question is disrespectful in what way? It a simple question if you believe it or not, what disrespectful is to have a government who tells you the sky is red when its really blue and to have constant lie after lie after lie. No gordon this is not a disrespectful question when millions have died over sea for political gain over this tragedy and politicians still use it as a means to set agendas. So do your self a favor answer the question or just stay quiet.
Please read my comment in full and don't skim it. I don't mind answering well thought out answers but not knee jerk reactions.
The answer to your question to me is in my original post...
Operation Northwoods was the blueprint for this attack, and the declassified info shows that JFK stopped the join chiefs from attacking American cities and blaming it on Cuba. Read it and weap for your nation.
And hear I thought an episode of "Lone Gunmen" was the inspiration for the attacks.
Allah knows that Al Qaeda couldn't possibly be smart enough or resourceful enough to plan and execute such a simple operation.
I agree that this question is disrespectful and ridiculous...after 10 years of other attempted attacks those who comitted the act are clear........
How is the question disrespectful on any day? If I had a brother killed on 911 I would want to know who did it and I would have yelled in Bush's murderous face on the anniversary.
Really, who and where? funny that has never come out in any conversation on this subject before. I was there, you do not want answers because you just want to believe what you want . You are a Bush Hater and therfore Bush did it. To bad you did not have the ability to look at what an operation like this would entail. Even you just said this would have been a complex plan to pull off. Do you think Bush was that smart? He would not be based on your prior posts on Bush
Bush didn't have to do anything but let it happen.
Why you think he had to get elected?
They already tried the "regime change" thing with Clinton....he wasn't buying.
oh, and all you lovely people who love to throw around the hate word..let's see how you like it, shall we!
Actually, I supported Bush until I found out he was a lying, murdering degenerate. It was because I was fooled like you still are that I despise everything about him.
Me too, voted for him the first time..abstained the second because of the illegitimate war in Iraq and found out about him 3 1/2 years ago...he's one evil man!
I remember the look of shock on the face of President Bush, when informed of the attacks, whilst attending the reading day at the school. I also remember how no one seemed to know what to do afterwards, when the President was kept in the air, with no one knowing if he should return to Washington. If this had been planned, then it wasn't done very well. This kind of thinking is similar to that, which insists the governments of the world are in contact with aliens, or that the Roswell balloon was really a crashed spacecraft. The events of 9/11 were horrific enough without trying to make them into something they were not.
No Bush's natural reaction if he didn't know would have been ANGER. Again, the Taliban went to Texas in 1997. Read it and weap for your nation. The BBC, a foreign news agency, reported it. The AP said it did but I don't see it anymore.
I've seen the clip where he was informed, many times over. It looked to me like he was indifferent...sort of a thoughtful indifference like he was weighing what it might mean to him and then decided it wasn't worth reacting. That was my first inkling that something was not quite right.
Isn't it funny how so many people can see the look on Pres. Bush's face that day, and interpret it differently?
My husband and I both said he looked stunned or shocked, not indifferent at all--I don't see how you could even think that. But while I know that the ones who like him might agree with us, those who don't, never will.
Respectfully, Terri, if your child had been in that classroom, would you have wanted him to jump up and run from the room?
Take a look at his 9-11 interview if you haven't already and see if you come back with the same conclusion. I don't think it was thoughtful indifference but rather shock then a calm, measured response that wouldn't scare those kids to death.
@TamCor & Longhunter: No, of course I would not expect him to jump up and run. That wouldn't have helped anything. But perhaps excuse himself for a few moments to issue some orders and get details, do something that looked as though he was intending on handling it. And then maybe go back to finish the story. Letting everything just wait until he was done???Seems to me like he already had issued his instructions PRIOR to being told "mission accomplished".
I was not a Bush hater. I thought he was hilarious to watch. I NEVER thought he was in charge of this country but a mere figurehead. So there was no reason to hate him. I've seen his interview many many times. I watched the coverage from the moment right before the 2nd plane crashed. My daughter was a Marine staff sergeant in communications. I knew it meant war and I was worried for her. I find it very revealing that you can read my comment and interpret it to mean I didn't like him. How is a different opinion of an observation connected to liking or disliking him as a man or president?
I looked back at my comments and saw nothing that said I thought you disliked Bush. Frankly, I've noted that your comments have been measured and factual. I didn't get the impression you liked or disliked Bush.
In his interview, Bush said he knew of the first plane going into one of the first tower prior to going into the classroom but it wasn't known it had been a jetliner. The thought was it had been one of the many sightseeing planes that fly around the city. He'd told his people to provide help for whatever was needed then went in with the children.
I want to thank your daughter for her service as well as your family. A soldier never serves alone and I can only imagine the worry you must have felt on that day. I have a nephew that intends to join the Marines once he graduates high school. We've discussed the dangers he'll face and he still wants to go so we'll support him in that decision.
sorry, I lumped you and Tamcor together...not a very good thing to do, I guess. I was sort of in a hurry. Again, sorry.
As for Bush knowing about the plane...in the very first interview with him after the events, Bush stated that he saw the first plane hit the towers and ... That is one of the things that has fueled the controversy of whether it was inside or not. There was no way he could have seen the first plane before going into the classroom. The only clip is from an independent film crew in NY doing a project. They just happened to film it. The clip was not given to news stations for quite some time. There was no way Bush could have seen it. Innocent misstatement? or a more telling slip of the tongue?
As for my daughter: she had planned to make a career with the Marines. She's a Barbie doll type of girl with an iron will and stamina to match any man. She itched to get on a tour. They wouldn't let her because they "needed" her stateside. She had 150 soldiers she instructed in communications. Eventually, she was there but she says she can not discuss it..classified. She left the marines after only 10 years. She will not talk about what she saw, but she claims that what went on and what she saw taking place would not be believed by Americans. She refused to be a part of it. She refused to re-up. She will not give anything away, but in her own way she's telling me it's an illegal war. I believe my daughter. We have a long line of soldiering in our family that goes back to the Revolution. She's very proud of that.
There is little doubt that it was an inside job, but not the way you seem to think.
The aliens that have been dealing with the KBG for the last 30 years knew exactly what they were doing when they controlled those planes remotely. We did not scramble interception jets because we knew very well the mother ship would simply suck them up for additional probing exercises.
@wilderness That little bit more then I can believe but I do think more should have done to avoid something so tragic.
Perhaps the biggest thing that surprises me by this forum thread...none of the typical die-hard conservatives are blaming President Obama for the attack. My O my...that is very refreshing.
Of course they cannot. It would be foolishness to attempt to.
@thoughtsandwiches Obama was even a thought back in 2001. But I must admit if the people really responsible for these attacks planned it and even stage other events for obama to be president.
Oh I know that Cag...but I also know that the biggest economic crash this nation has been in since the Great Depression occurred during the Republican Administration of George W. Bush and yet...to hear it bandied about here...Mr. Bush played no role...it was all President Obama.
All of the past Presidents had a hand in it, to some extent. America hasn't been on the right for a long time, almost since the inception of America.
To blame just ONE President for it, when so many factors are involved is blatant ignorance on behalf of the people.
"The USA was taken over by a coup on November 22, 1963, and the same group of criminals that ran it then, run it now."
Huh Who Johnson and the Democrats???? What drugs are you taking we the people vote people into office or out of office. What country do you live in. This is America we still have some control.
It was not an inside job. WHY who would gain. NOBODY.
Hey LMC, only conspiracy theorists would think of things like that. It would not be true, considering America has been screwed up since it's inception.
Let' go further back than that....
"The reason for the plot was the election of President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR), a member of the same ruling circles as the cabal itself. March 5, 1933--the day after his inauguration--FDR embargoed the export of gold and declared a national bank holiday. He told the "Hundred Days Congress" to enact a New Deal into law. In striving against the Depression, FDR awakened hope in the American people, but he appalled bankers and industrialists. Who would pay for this New Deal? The rich feared changes to the US system of finance, a rise in taxes, possibly even (Heaven forbid!) socialism."
What? Fear of Socialism you say? Rise in taxes you say?
Gee, now that's familiar.
"soldiers fighting for our freedom" "god in schools" "christian nation"....blah blah blah. It's SO old. And stale and rigid. And it's one big lie.
I aint buyin. Like the old 70's song: She's come undone. The story doesn't work anymore.
The Free Masons?
The Knights Templar?
The Trilateral Commission?
The Vril Society?
Skull and Bones?
The Denver Airport?
The Montauk Project?
You forgot the Knights of Malta, of which W, HW and Jeb are members.
here: CHECK IT OUT!
The Knights of Malta (including now deceased members):
Compiled by Eric Samuelson, J.D.
Edward Fenech Adami
George W. Anderson
James Jesus Angelton
Joe M. Allbaugh
Roberto Alejos Arzu
Grandmaster, Prince Andrew Willoughby Ninian Bertie (cousin of QEII) deceased.
(Former Prime Minister) Tony Blair
Marie Corinne Morrison Claiborne Boggs (Dame Lindy Boggs)
Geoffrey T. Boisi
John Robert Bolton
Charles Joseph Bonaparte
Prince Valerio Borghese
Dr. Barry Bradley
Monsignor Mario Brini
William F. Buckley, Jr.
George H.W Bush
George W. Bush
Precott Bush, Jr.
(King) Juan Carlos
Frank Charles Carlucci III
(President) Bill Clinton
(Cardinal) Terence Cooke
(Senator) John Danforth
John J. DeGioia
(Archbishop) Edward Egan
Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr.
(Count) Franz Egon
Matthew Festing (79th Grand Master)
Edwin J. Feulner
Francis D. Flanagan
Adrian Fortescue (16th century)
John C. Gannon
Emilio T. González
Dr. Lawrence Gonzi
Sir John Gorman CVO
Thomas K. Gorman
J. Peter Grace
Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank
Gen. Alexander Haig
Otto von Hapsburg
William Randolph Hearst
Edward L. Hennessy, Jr.
(Baron) Conrad Hilton
J. Edgar Hoover
Leonard G. Horowitz
Carl Nicholas Karcher
Francis L. Kellogg
(Senator) Ted Kennedy
Henry A. Kissinger
Cardinal Pio Laghi
Cathy L. Lanier
Joseph P. Larkin
General de Lorenzo
Clara Booth Luce (Dame)
Angus Daniel McDonald
Alexandre de Marenches
Sir Stewart Menzies
(Prince) Angelo di Mojana
Thomas S. Monaghan
Joseph A. O’Hare
Thomas 'Tip' O'Neill
Francis (Frank) V. Ortiz
Robert James "Jim" Nicholson
Fra Giancarlo Pallavicini
Fra Hubert Pallavicini
Franz von Papen
Baron Luigi Parrilli
Peter G. Peterson
Harold A.R. 'Kim' Philby
John J. Raskob
(President) Ronald E. Reagan
John Charles Reynolds
General Giuseppe Santovito
Phyllis Schlafly (Dame)
Joseph Edward Schmitz (Blackwater)
Stephen A. Schwarzman
Martin F. Shea
William Edward Simon Jr.
Frederick W. Smith
Cardinal Francis Spellman
Francix X. Stankard
Admiral Giovanni Torrinsi
(Prince) Anton Turkul
Albrecht von Boeselager
Winfried Henckel von Donnersmark
Thomas Von Essen
Amschel Mayer von Rothschild
Robert Ferdinand Wagner, Jr
General Vernon A. Walters
Col. Albert J. Wetzel
Canon Edward West
Gen. William Westmoreland
Gen. Charles A. Willoughby
Gen. Anthony Zinni
Additions or corrections welcomed.
The Oath of the Knights of Malta
Did you SEE the picture of the Norway shooter all dressed up in his group regalia? My my.....like a throwback. So one would think.
Actually we were officially taken over in 1913 when the illegal Federal Reserve was instituted, then the Council on Foreign Relations was brought about soon after. This is where the true power is. Read The Creature from Jekyll Island.
First off the President does not run the country atonomously so to blame any President completely for this is wrong. I am not a Obama supporter by far but he is not totally responsible here. We have an overpaid house and congress not to mention they only have to work one year to get a lifetime pention....who the heck voted that one in.... two guesses helloo. We need to stop complaining and step in and shrink this government and their paychecks. Big government is why we came to America in the first place and here we are full circle!!
Excellent reasoned response. Thank you for reaffirming my faith by seeing such an expression within these forums. Perhaps I won't stop following the political hubs!
Maybe it might help. I outlined a little bit of what I just said, in a hub called- America: Degeneration of Value.
It's about the U.S. Economy, American history, actions of politicians and how the politicians have continued on the same path since the inception of America.
The term: Degeneration of Value was created by me, to make a point of how politicians are ruining the value of citizens.
@cagsil I would have to agree each president has continue the same policy of the previous president and so on so nothing has really changed in this country for a long time. I think now they finally wanna pull the plug on an already dying nation. The bankster already have the military and a goon squad of idiots waiting to crack down on the public. Its only a matter of time.
Politicians, corporations and manufacturers of arms.
Hey Cag...about how long ago was it published? I could not find it among your hubs.
Don't forget, you can go to a profile and search that hubbers work for what you want.
From the comments on the page? It says about 20 months ago. However, Wilderness just gave you the link.
No, 9/11 was not an inside U.S. job. Conspiracy theories are always brought up after the fact. Accidents happen, "on any given Sunday", some people don't do their jobs, the attackers were good actors, our government officials sleepwalk, etc. There are so many variables involved into why this happened. The towers were hit and collapsed before anyone even really knew what was going on. To me it was more like Pearl Harbor when it was attacked during WWII. Complete surprise and we were caught with out pants down. Our government was like the Keystone Cops on 9/11, so no, I don't think there was any grand conspiracy by anyone in the U.S.
Yeah,It always goes down the way Fox and CNN says it does
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/09 … 1-treason/
I was just reading this too MD!!!
And it's not the 1st time I've heard this:
"Soon after his election, President Obama was warned that if he did what he knew he must, jail at least 200 traitors, members of Congress, at least 3 Supreme Court justices and top officials of the White House and Pentagon, he would never have a presidency.
The economy had been gutted and he was told the CIA and military would kill his entire family if he interfered in their drug cartel, which controlled not only Afghanistan, a war he had to keep going forever, but Mexico as well, a border that would be kept open at all costs."
Christopher Story: Global Analysis and Intelligence Report....he said this years ago. And he has since been poisoned,and died.
Now Cheney has his book out....another threat to America.....Do they think we are stupid??
@lovemychris I really don't know why obama is continue all the same policies that George w bush implemented in his 2 terms. But I must say from the man who ran for president in 2008 to the man now I really dont recognize him at all. Theres more going on behind the scenes thats not being talked about. and nothing in this world is truly black or white, if that was the case then we could fix our economy without even thinking about it. This all part of a much bigger plan that none of can truly see. American need to wake up from the bullshit.
I love our country America and I find it hard to believe that fellow Americans would do this to our country. It does not make sense to me why we would crash planes into our own buildings. Killing our own people. Maybe I am silly but that is what I think and I am tired of Americans hating America. This is our home love it or leave it. For better or worse. I am just saying. Thanks
@Cutters Rich people in general dont think like average people, there whole mentality is base on what to invest in, and how to make money no matter the cost. The people responsible for 9/11 are the same one causing havoc with other countries economies and also instigating world war 3. These are psychopaths on power trips, my life and your life and anyone life means nothing to these people as long as there agenda is set. The only way to stop these people for good is to just wake up to them and thinking that our government doesnt have a hand in this mess.
"If an American Airlines pilot swerves lighting a cigarette in the cockpit while flying from Louisville to Wheeling, NORAD knows it, maybe even what brand."
EXACTLY!! And it is infiltrated by 19 men in caves???
"The cover story given now, the recent leaks, just prior to the 9/11 10th anniversary are telling. Former CIA director and Defense Secretary Gates is now describing the enmity between Obama, Biden and Netanyahu. We now understand why millions in Zionist money, the Koch brothers cabal and the Mossad have been working so hard with neocons to brand Obama a socialist, a Muslim and even foreign born."
A psy-op, from the beginning.
"Soon after his election, President Obama was warned that if he did what he knew he must, jail at least 200 traitors, members of Congress, at least 3 Supreme Court justices and top officials of the White House and Pentagon, he would never have a presidency."
I wonder if this has anything to do with his aunt and uncle being harassed?? Little threats, maybe?
@lovemychris,I find that kinda interesting because the establishment had john mccain and sarah palin, Why obama to carry out and set the agenda? Is it because hes a better speaker and much younger? Theres way more going on here. If our media wheren't such cowards and ask real questions as to why obama flip flop from all of his campaign promises back in 2008 to now doing all the same things he criticized bush for. I really want Ron paul to be the republican candidate because believe hes gonna go after obama just on those principles.
Buildings don't fall down like that unless you pay a lot of money to have them demolished properly.
@Evan Indeed, There where traces of Thermite found thoughout the world trade center site. I mean our media is bought and paid for without a doubt if they don't investigate those simple facts.
I hate sounding like a lunatic. I really do.
They could prove every aspect of every detail of every conspiracy of 9/11...
... but buildings just do NOT fall down like that. Especially if the official story is "the steel got heated up, and thus lost support" -- they fell too fast and straight for that to be believable.
You can be a lunatic or a sheep,I rather be a lunatic.
They weren't demolished properly, though. Your only options aren't to be a lunatic or a sheep. You can learn a thing about civil engineering, or even a probie firefighter's education in fire science.
Those things came down pretty well.
If there was ANY structural integrity (as is the official story), those towers would have chosen a direction to fall, and each one would likely have been different.
Oh - and WTC7 wouldn't have fallen.
Nope. A proper demolition would only bring down the building being demolished. Instead, WTC 7 was, as firefighters on the scene observed, "fully involved" and unsalvageable because of the resulting fire. Several other buildings were also damaged or destroyed. If it was a "proper" demolition, it was a crap job.
Do not even bother, Just let them go on and be dilussional. I have been down the road with these same people and they cannot understand logic and refuse to see the facts. They are Bush haters so therefore it is all Bushs fault.
(psst - WTC 7 was supposed to drop, that was my entire point. Did you notice how the official report ignored the collapse of WTC 7?)
With every response you Continue to prove my point
St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church was also not mentioned in the 9-11 Commission Report, yet it was also destroyed in your supposed "proper" demolition of WTC 1 and 2. Your point is?
Seriously, this is not the right time to bring up this subject. Can't you keep yourself busy with the moon landing conspiracy instead?
And as a New Yorker who was there during the attacks and still lives near ground zero, 9/11 was not an inside job.
Thinking that 9/11 was a conspiracy does NO injustice to the lives lost.
And, just a reminder: WTC 7 wasn't hit by a plane, it fell at free-fall speed DIRECTLY down, and was NOT mentioned in the official 9/11 commission report.
"Thinking that 9/11 was a conspiracy does NO injustice to the lives lost." Exactly. I want the real people that did this to HANG, but they won't .Just get microwaved or the happy ending before you get on that plane. What Constitution? Unless the whole country wakes up this is bigger than all of us
No kidding. I was curious, so I googled Tim Osman. This name came up:
http://911review.org/brad.com/archives/ … Osman.html
This is Octopus. This is international crime....drugs, pharma, weapons. It was written about in a book called The Last Circle. It is well worth the read. I was never the same after reading it.
and JUST BTW.......Orly Taitz' husband was involved in Inslaw (Octopus).....His company made the swine-flu vaccine. And she was allegedly hired by Bibi Netanyahu to do the birth-certificate smear on Obama. According to Wayne Madsen.
Might want to read "Last Man Down" by FDNY Battalion Chief Richard Picciotto. He was one of the company that survived the collapse of the North Tower.
"Seriously, this is not the right time to bring up this subject." You're right. It ought to have been fully investigated in open court about nine years ago.
@Edwin It not a right to bring it up, so when would be a right time? It has been 10 years now with no clear answers. I'm a fellow New yorker too who remembers that day all to well and have my own tale to tell in terms of 9/11. It time to grow up and start having a serious debate about this. The media or the courts are all bought and paid by the same interest who only want to make a profit from death. Seriously Edwin the time answers is now because if average citizen think this is the wrong time to ask a question then we are all doomed. There is no wrong time for this, this is the right time.
Sorry--you are no more of an American than I am.....
And when I go to my town's 9/11 ceremony, I will be cursing a whole other enemy than you.
You do not have the market on the truth...and millions of people think you are wrong.
My only question I want answered about 9-11 is why Israelis were trying to blow up the Brooklyn bridge? I believe they were also caught in another van loaded with explosives l.
I missed that one. I wonder why? I read a lot of stuff, left, middle and right. Wonder what your source for that is???
@S Leretseh I miss that headline, where can I find that article?
Amazing revelation! You mean Israel is actually spying on the US?
Ralph, because you were uninformed, I supplied you with a link to the Israelis being nabbed red-handed in vans LOADED with explosives: one van was caught at the GW bridge, the other van exploded at the WCT site. These Israelis were caught, interrogated ... then allowed to go back to Israel. WHY? Everything in which they revealed during their interrogation has now been classified. WHY? The ones who short-sold American airlines and United stock, this information has also been "classified. " WHY?
If the gov't wanted to end conspiracy theory - false flag - arguments, all they hv to do is:
--release the interrogation records of the captured Israelis on 9-11
--allow Americans to see the plane parts from the pentagon and Shanksville sites. those titanium engines are indestructible. Let's see them.
--tell us who had the shorts on American & United
You provided a link to a YouTube video from "grassy knoll trolls." Not a credible source. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Israeli spies may have had information, before 9-11, that they gathered on the Al Qaida terrorists who hijacked the four planes and even that they failed to pass the information on to US authorities.
What possible motive would they have for bombing the Brooklyn Bridge? That's looney tunes. We are their ally. We give Israel $2 billion/year, and we've told the world that serious consequences would befall them if they attacked Israel.
Yes, a woman saw 3 men celebrating and called the police. They were Israeli's filming the event.
Allegedly, they said "We are not your enemy! Our enemy is your enemy. The Palestinians are your enemy!"
They were released and appeared on Israeli tv. Apparently, a lot of Israeli's were arrested that day.
They used a Wings store as a front in Florida, and pretended to be art students in New York. allegedly.
Just as allegedly Osama Bin Laden did it, because de denied having anything to do with it.
FBI had no evidence of him for it.
He said you should look inside your gvt for the answer.
Olmert or Netanyahu said 9/11 was good for Israel, as it made the world sympathetic to them.
Operation Cast Lead
No angels here people.
My recollection is that Osama bin Laden took credit for the attack. I usually agree with you LMC, but you're going off the deep end on this one. Or you're trying to pull the tails of the conspiracy mongers??
No, I just know what I know Ralph. It's inner knowing, if you know what I mean.
Interview With Osama bin Laden. Denies His Involvement in 9/11
Full text of Pakistani paper's Sept 2001 "exclusive" interview
Daily Ummat in Urdu, BBC translation in English, 2001
"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children, and other people."
He said there is a government within the government in the United States.
Here's a CNN article outlining his denial of responsibility in the attacks:
http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/i … r?_s=PM:US
Here's Bin Laden suggesting that he APPROVED of the attacks, and an explanation of why he approves of them:
This is the video of him claiming he was responsible (it's not him):
Anyone watching that last video can easily see it isn't Osama.
Quote From Ralph Deeds: "I read recently that Israel has the biggest spy network in the U.S. of all countries. That includes military and commercial spying. Aside from that the fact that we are clearly aligned with Israel contributes significantly to terrorism against the United States. We give Israel billions every year and they thumb their noses at us. The Israel lobby is among the strongest in Washington. It absolutely terrorizes Senators and Congressmen who say anything contrary to Israel's party line."
I'm with you here, Ralph. I put this in the same category as:
man never really landed on the moon
Obama was born in Kenya
Obama was put in place by foreign nationals to destroy America
Bush is Cheney's illigitimate son
Elvis isn't really dead
Tupac is still alive
the U.S. developed AIDS to kill Africans
most of today's world leaders are actually space aliens
Break out the tin foil!
what is next? The Easter bunny and Santa do not exist
Buildings don't fall down like that - especially if the steel inside still has some strength to them.
The problem is that hot steel has no strength.
Evan 's point is indisputable. The building fell in a free-fall. Also,
-- only larry silversteins three buildings fell to the ground
-- larry silverstein, owner/leasor of many other buildings, yet, he only took out double indemnity clause on three buildings (WTC 1,2, 7) , and the only way that policy would pay off is if all three were hit in one event. Out of all the thousands of builds in Manhattan, only silversteins three building (WTC1,2 7) had a double indemnity clause...and only those three building fell to the ground.
--someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the double indemnity clause policy was a payout directly to larry siverstein
---Dopey larry went on PBS and TOLD THE WORLD...he and a fire chief (who was this fire chief?) gave the order to "pull" building#7. How did these two know that no one was in the building when they ordered it to be demolished?
Wrong. St. Nicholas' Church was also destroyed. Furthermore, the North Bridge was destroyed. WTC 4, 5, and 6 and the WTC Marriott were partially collapsed. 30 West Broadway, the Verizon Building, 3 World Financial Center, the Winter Garden, 90 West Street, and the Bankers' Trust Building sustainted substantial damage, and I won't mention all the buildings that sustained facade damage as a result of this supposedly proper demolition.
Lol @Habee ... and then there's the Princess Di conspiracy. We could go on and on..
Is this the plot you're referring to? It involved Al Qaida, not Israelis.
WASHINGTON – An immigrant from Kashmir has admitted being a member of al-Qaeda and pleaded guilty to providing aid to terrorists, Attorney General John Ashcroft said today.
Ashcroft said that truck driver Iyman Faris pleaded guilty to plotting against the United States, including taking part in a plot to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge. An indictment said Faris worked closely with Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, a top officer in the Muslim terrorist group who was captured earlier this year.
Ashcroft said Faris, also known as Mohammed Rauf, tried to obtain "gas cutters" and other tools that could be used to damage train tracks to cause derailments. He studied ultralight aircraft for use in a possible attack and suggested driving a truck loaded with explosives onto an airport tarmac to blow up planes.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art … 2342.shtml
You are a veritable fountain of misinformation.
I hate how everyone thinks they know what happened for real.... Most people know nothing about anything that happens to America. If you were one of the people that are informed on top secret things you probly wouldn't have time to be asking these questions or stating your opinions on the internet all day. It's almost the anniversary of thousands of people dieing and you want to press the issue of whos "really" at fault. This is definately inappropriate to be talking about this close to the 10 year anniversary I think.
@cmlindblom again it the wrong time to talk about something like this, I dont understand it, when would be more convenient for you then. And it not thousand of people who have died, stop thinking one dimensional, Million of people have died over this tragedy in the US and abroad, oh I suppose you forgot about that. Like this isnt a football game where the commercial comes on and you can go to the bathroom. People are dying now because of 9/11, our liberty and freedoms are being taken away on a daily basis because of 9/11. So this question needs to be asked to wake people like yourself up who think it isnt the right time ask a question.
I think people will know the answer to this, the day after they find out how President J.F. Kennedy was really killed.
There was a documentary on this called Loose Change. I think it is on youtube. I highly doubt it was an inside job. It would make no sense.
@toygurus I've seen loose change before, it a good documentary and it answer some questions about the event in my opinion. The problem I have is that so many live are being lose because of this event and no one wants to ask question as to why they took place in the first place. Leading to multiple wars in middle east countries, demonizing them for there religion. Its disgust on all levels and for some people in this post to say it not the right time to ask a question like this speak to the ignorance of the matter.
Just the latest of so many things never investigated. Got to wonder why?
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/07/2 … nd-in.html
Blanket blaming are we. enemy's are individual persons. Palestinian children are our enemy? is that your assertion? and 9 11 ? no it was a outside job. you did see the planes didn't you?
"Palestinian children are our enemy?"
That is what the Israeli "art students" allegedly told the police who arrested them.
And I would say the "blanket blaming" has been on the Muslims. From whom, may I ask?
"I will join you Sir at noon tomomrow September 11, 2011 by lifting a finger in the air while simultaneously proclaiming "B*llsh*t!".
Aw Sarasota again. I hadn't remembered this one.
Islam every year at this time feels the need make clear their faiths intent . To us.
Americans and others that question their direction and intent . This should be the time for them to talk amongst themselves i feel. Its Islam that needs reminded daily that their religion isn't meant to be a hostile one.I don't blame Islam . but i think they should be held accountable.
The conspiracy theories will live on forever, because living with the pain of loss does involve a little curiosity about what actually happened, but the matter of fact is that with all these theories, we lost so many innocent people by people who didn't care about themselves or others. A lot of people found a way to make a lot of money after this tragedy, and it makes me disgusted at the thought of someone profiting, and not at least sharing or giving it all to the families that lost their loved ones. Flashing lights, non commercial airplanes, bombs planted before attack are all theories that are not impossible, but let's quit with the accusations, and make sure it doesn't happen again to our country.
Doctors and funeral homes make money off of loss, as do many other jobs.
Profiting off of loss isn't wrong unless property rights are infringed upon.
of course not . but the ones that did were all Muslims. They were soldiers fighting a war because of religious ideology. which they were indoctrinated into . by whom? Islam . Its their baby. Their mess to clean. We shouldn't have to hunt these people down and kill them. Islam should. its their faith at stake here.
That is a ridiculous statement. It has already been proven who did this atrosity!
This caught us all totally off guard. If it was inside then the ones involved were here already but not American citizens.
Osama and his kronies did it. We have documented statements from many that admit to the plot. The Taliban were involved and freely take credit for it all. To infer that someone from the inside, I assume you mean one of us (b American citizens ) did this is delorable.
And im in the high rise biz we build them. all this planed demo crap is just that. planed demos don't fall onto 7 other buildings around them . to bring a building down that size you'd have to set spiral charges at every 10 floors or so. there's no way to conceal these charges from people. its a massive undertaking. planed demos are obvious not ambiguous .
this ones easy . the pnac did it. how do i know you might ask? you told me so. that's how.
i spit ball ideas and thoughts. im not in the righteousness biz.
im wrong alot . and i mean a whole lot. and you know . i sleep better for it.
I did not "tell" you anything but what I think.
I have said "think", "believe" and "allegedly" at all times.
You, however, said it was Islam's baby. You had the certainty, not me.
Even though I have known what I know since it happened.. I just "knew".
Anyone who wasn't enamored of Bushco could have seen it.
My boyfriend refuses to believe it--that's his business.
I have mine.
wall systems,the shell , exterior metal framing sheathing and coatings . and interior stud walls and gypsum products .
23 years . building the walls that cage us in from the blue sky outside.
sighs. i was enjoying the discussion. sorry to upset you.
heated but civil exchanging of contrary ideas . can we do that?
modern . dry walling the exit stairways was a blunder. the sprinklers went off the drywall fell clogging the way. lots of blunders that day . but no conspiracy. i think
Now that it is ten years since this act of terrorism, which is an important milestone, and one which should be commemorated, I do hope that TV will not concentrate so much on it every 11th of September. I dread this date, because it is very hard to turn on the telly, without seeing the terrible images of people falling to their deaths, and it still has the power to upset. How the families of those who died cope with this, I've no idea. Although it should never be forgotten, I believe it does no good to show such distressing images every year. Let the dead rest in peace now, and spare their families the media fascination, which never seems to diminish.
9/11 is the justification for the expenditure of 3 trillion and counting for war in the Middle East
and the the reason the US is broke.
ohh a reminder we kill more civilians than any other nation .
its the R.O.E collateral damage 30 for 1
"To the prison born
There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.
When a few people wish to control and direct a mass of humanity, there are certain key structures that have to be in place. These are the same whether you are seeking to manipulate an individual, family, tribe, town, country, continent, or planet.
First you have to set the "norms", what is considered right and wrong, possible or impossible, sane or insane, good and bad. Most of the people will follow those norms without question because of the baa-baa mentality, which has prevailed within the collective human mind for at least thousands of years. Second, you have to make life very unpleasant for those few who challenge your imposed "norms".
The most effective way to do this is to make it, in effect, a crime to be different. So those who beat to a different drum, or voice a different view, version of "truth" and lifestyle, stand out like a black sheep in the human herd. You have already conditioned that herd to accept your norms as reality and so, in their arrogance and ignorance, they then ridicule or condemn those with a different spin on life. This pressurizes them to conform and serves as a warning for those others in the herd who are also thinking of breaking away. There is a Japanese saying that goes: Don't be a nail that stands out above the rest because that's the first one to get hit.
This creates a situation fundamental to the few controlling the many in which the masses police themselves and keep each other in line. The sheep become the sheepdog for the rest of the herd.* It is like a prisoner trying to escape while the rest of his cellmates rush to stop him. If that happened we would say the prisoners were crazy, how could they do that?
But humans are doing precisely this to each other every day by demanding that everyone conform to the norms to which they blindly conform. This is nothing less than psychological fascism - the thought police with agents in every home, everywhere. Agents so deeply conditioned that most have no idea they are unpaid mind controllers.
Once you control what is considered "normal" and possible, the whole system virtually runs itself."
---David Icke,from "Children of the Matrix"
For a total nut-case good old David Icke got this one about right.
I think even asking something like this is harmful to the memories of the hero's who died ten years ago today.
I would suggest that not investigating thoroughly why so many died is more disrespectful to those who died and those who lost them.
The same applies to military actions, it is necessary to know that your child has died on the battlefield for good reason - hard though it is to imagine how that is accomplished in the middle east, even more so than it was in Vietnam.
It should also be remembered that the USA was and is a target due to its own contribution to the terror war, the fallen on both sides should be considered in any memorial discussion.
Tearing open people's wounds and refusing to accept the facts is neither investigation nor respectful. If the buildings went down as part of a proper demolition, evidence would have been all over the place. The Port Authority building inspectors would have seen the charges and such. The firefighters would have seen the charges as they climbed and swept every floor. And yet they didn't know the buildings would come down until the South Tower began to collapse. Are you saying that the hundreds who died from FDNY and the Port Authority are stupid or that they're in on the conspiracy? See, that's why your supposed investigation (which really has less to do with facts and more to do with disparaging people and governments you don't like) is not respectful.
You are aiming at the wrong person - I have no opinion on the conspiracy theory etc.
That these things should be investigated properly is pretty obvious, and if it has not been properly done by some respected and independant body then it leaves the question open - and this is more disrespectful than any other option.
I do go further and consider that the whole war on terror is a fabricated and aggressive trade war - and as an ex-serviceman myself I know that it necessary to believe your cause is right if I am being asked to kill people. The current crop of 'causes' is nothing about 'right' or fighting for your country, it is about profiteering. The 9/11 attack was a terrible tragedy there is no doubt, but the numbers of people killed in that event is around the same numbers of people who are dying most months around the world at the other end of the 'war'.
So it's only about numbers for you? It's "even" if we kill the same number regardless of whether or not we accomplish the mission? Do you even know what the mission was? Did you lose 343 brothers who were only armed with barely functioning radios that day? Probably not, because if so, you wouldn't call it just a "terrible tragedy" or say this war is about profiteering. Opportunists will use every chance to make a buck. They don't cause crises to make a buck. They just don't let the ones that do happen go to waste.
How 9/11 changed your life according to Mike Thompson:
http://www.freep.com/article/20110911/B … -your-life
"The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will cost American taxpayers $1.29 TRILLION by the end of 2011."
I watched a TV show in the wee hours this morning about 9/11 heroes, and one was a building engineer who was trapped up on one of the high floors. He survived, and he explained how he saw the way the heat was affecting the steel. After seeing that, he thought the building was probably going to fall. I believe him.
Me too. But some people seem to be inclined to look for conspiracies.
I believe him too. The amount of jet fuel involved and the extreme temperatures would have resulted in the cascading effect. I don't know why people always want to look for a conspiracy in everything.
The latest line.
Mr. Deeds - Israel attacked a US warship in 1967 to try to trick us into action with them against Egypt. Four of the supposed "Al Qaida terrorist" are still alive and well.
The Talmud teaches that non Talmudic persons are merely cattle.
"London Bombings 07/07/2005 - Mock Disaster Drill In Progress"
Just watching the BBC news, which showed the demonstration in London today, where Muslims burnt the American flag to celebrate the 9/11 anniversary. I find this rather terrifying that they saw this day as one of celebration
Are you sure they are Muslims???
Its very possible they are not. Who would benefit from doing that on this of all days?
Someone who wants you to hate Muslims, that's who.
"Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
So who is hated and is the justification for the terrorism against Palestine? Hamas!!
Well unless the BBC news is lying, but I doubt it, and their burning of the flag was shown on TV. Somehow I doubt it is a conspiracy created by the BBC and the Israel.
you wont see Americans burning other nations flags in the street or prodding our children to do so. why? were better than that.
WOW...where have you been....Other countries are burning our flag ...because we are over throwing their government, stealing their reources, and killing their children
OPEN YOUR EYES
911 killed under 5,000 people ...over 500,000 Iraqis have died ...in the war and they did NOTHING wrong ...they just live in a country that has the oil we want
in the Arab world Jews hold only a small piece of it. Islamic governments don't govern well. even they know that. tend your house.
"I doubt it is a conspiracy created by the BBC and the Israel."
Neither one of them has to have anything to do with it.
"tend your house."
Arab dual-citizens were not prevalent in the Bush white house when 9/11 occurred.
My Hubpages blog about 9/11 and the real and simple truth about what is never discussed by the media.
by Stacie L5 years ago
Dick Cheney faces bribery scandal charges in NigeriaJoined: 22.10.10 Dick Cheney faces bribery scandal charges in NigeriaDick Cheney, file pic Mr Cheney was Halliburton's chief executive before becoming...
by Ralph Deeds5 years ago
"Whatever readers think of Mr. Cheney’s politics, their heads are more likely to explode from frustration than from any sense of revelation. Indeed, the memoir — delivered in dry, often truculent prose...
by Paul Wingert4 years ago
He voted against healthcare reform, helped Bush destroy this country and he gets a new heart. Now someone has to wait longer for a heart transplant because of this assh**e. Feel free to comment or make a list of a...
by Cranston8 years ago
a) Play Golfb) Be US Ambassador to the UNc) Go Hunting With Dick Cheneyd) Stay Home On The Ranchc) Raise Pigs
by Leta S7 years ago
Jon Soltz, former Captain, Operation Iraqi Freedom, writes that military support for the Democratic party:"...is about to be fast tracked, as Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney take control of Republican messaging,...
by Julie McFarland3 years ago
This Forum is primarily for a discussion between myself and Chris Neal (and anyone else who wants to join) about the nature of his personal experiences with what he claims to be god - and how those experiences relate to...
Copyright © 2016 HubPages Inc. and respective owners.
Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners.
HubPages® is a registered Service Mark of HubPages, Inc.
HubPages and Hubbers (authors) may earn revenue on this page based on affiliate relationships and advertisements with partners including Amazon, Google, and others.