Many people agree and disagree with racial profiling. To put it in simpler words, if someone looks like a terrorist, for example, do you think he/she should be stopped and checked in the airport only because the person looks like one? Would you get offended if YOU were randomly picked out from the crowd to be checked only because you look different?
Yes they should be stopped.
And no I wouldn't be offended.
People are so silly. They act like it hurts to be asked to reveal their identities. Duh. Why wouldn't everyone feel safer knowing that there actually IS a system of checking airline passengers? And pilots! And stewardesses! My God! What's wrong with rules to try to keep people safe from terrorists??
You know we were having that discussion in class, and when I answered that it's probably very very normal to be checked if someone looked suspicious, and some students in the class were shocked that I was okay with that! I mean it's for the safety of our country! Thanks for sharing
I believe exclusive racial profiling would accomplish little that was positive, and possibly much that wasn't. I tend to lean on the that pearl of wisdom, "don't judge by appearances."
Looking at profiling as a whole, and I'm far from an expert on this, but I understand that although criminal profiling is a common practice, there is no substantial parallel between the criminal mind and that of the terrorist; no single "terrorist type". To the contrary, they can be as diverse as the people within this forum (which may be a bad example, because there are currently only four of us (although I think Cagsil might be one
Some research has shown terrorists as action oriented, aggressive thrill seekers. However, the same can be said of many police officers, football players and corporate world leaders. I'd be interested to hear of any genuine terrorists being caught sing profiling methods.
What does a terrorist look like?
No, seriously, I want to know.
Yes, the majority of Muslim terrorists are of Asian or Middle Eastern origin, but as people of this race make up 60% of the world's population, it would be unrealistic to stop everyone (or rather every man) from this race at airports. Also to make the assumption that every man who has such an appearance is a terrorist would be racist. There would need to be some other reason to suspect someone of terrorism than the race to which they belong. Plus, of course there are other forms of terrorism besides the Islamic variety. It would be as unrealistic to stop every Irish person at an airport, for fear that they are all members of the IRA.
I realize that a large percentage of the world could easily be related to others who look like the gentlemen in that poster. I'm married to a man who is dark and swarthy. And I do not advocate stopping every person that enters an airport that looks like that.
But, people of good will can agree that we have a problem. There is no reason to treat this thing as if we don't understand the problem. We can certainly come up with more reasonable measures for airport security than the ones currently used.
I think racial profiling is already going on anyway. They just aren't admitting to it. Didn't you find it odd that the plane where the two Pakistani guys and the woman from Chicago who looked of Middle Eastern descent were arrested were all seated together? They didn't know each other, yet they were all seated in the same row; and being watched. What are the odds of that, without someone actively assigning seats by the appearance of race?
If there is statistical data to support profiling, I say USE IT!
But is there?
Where are the similarities between a white Irish bomber and a black muslim bomber?
The white Irish bombers have already won their victory and want to be the President of Ireland now, whereas the Muslim bomber wants to kill, get a good compensation for his family, send his son through college on the proceeds of his 'martyrdom' and win his 70 virgins to abuse for eternity (one wonders what the 70 virgins did to deserve that?)
Worldwide, I understand your dilemma (I guess) but should Americans be concerned about the irish bomber on stateside flights? What is the threat level?
I get your argument for European flights, but I'm not sure it is a valid one with most security issues here in the states.
I used Irish as a generic term, I'm sure that you have plenty of non muslim white terrorists in the States.
Well OK, not plenty but probably as many.
I agree. Only because violence appears to beget violence. But, I still think the probability of a non muslim attack akin to what was seen on 9/11 is lower than a muslim planned one. And I believe security measures here are implemented less to ensure security than they are to perpetuate fear. I could be wrong. But I don't believe there is a large number of Americans who want to martyr themselves.
I wouldnt be offended,in fact I probably have been stopped ,but was so naive (innocent) I just thought it was random procedure
Disembarking from an International flight and walking down the long stretch of walkway toward customs ,one wall is almost completely mirrored.
I paused to check my hair ,adjust my bra strap, and Im embarassed to say um check my nose. (As you do)
Later while waiting in line, I was chatting to this lady and she told me she hoped she got the guy who looked like George Clooney,lol. I said "Where is he" "oh there with his team"...and I turned and saw 10-15 officers all on the other side of THAT mirror- ..still studying the people.
Welcome to America Aww..
On the other hand, they probably realised that your were either the most bold faced terrorist or an innocent abroad, you may have even won that days sweepstake for the most funny behaviour!
I don't think racial profiling should be used at airports. In many places they use it to profile blacks and it doesn't matter who you are or what you've accomplished all is based on your color and often they have been wrong. I think it also makes people more afraid or distrusting of a group based on nothing more than appearance. People are more than skin deep.
I think you're referring to 'Stop N Frisk' . It's primarily used in the inner cities and, yes, mostly against black youths. Black mayors, police chiefs and black police officers wholeheartedly endorse it. Seems black youths do love to '"carry." And it don't take much to get them to pull it and attempt to kill someone. Something HAD to be done.
Didnt like the white dudes dog.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sectio … id=7142440
Even the girls are getting into the act
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-08 … ne-gun-uzi
If there is statistical data that shows a convincing pattern of violent behavior , and it comes from a racial/ethnic group, or any other definable group, I say use the data and profile.
The fact that this question is even being posed is indicative of just how far political correctness has corrupted critical thinking...
The current cultural trend is towards relativism, particularly moral relativism...and thus the demise of critical thinking, which is really a rebellion against discipline, authority, and personal responsibility...
To argue that it would be inconvenient for one to be profiled, or be somehow prejudicial, is to deny that profiling works...Israel, the most terrorist-threatened nation in the world has been extremely successful using profiling as their main deterrent against terrorists boarding aircraft there...
Profiling should be done. When a complete profile is done, it will include race as one factor.
Profiling based on race shouldn't be done.
Having personally been subjected to a rather embarrassing search, while my husband (who could pass for a terrorist) sailed through security unchallenged; I think we go overboard in not wanting to appear as if we don't have some idea as to the type of people we are suspicious of.
I'm not saying we should not have random searches, but a little more thought might go into policy. Children, babies and people who do not match any profile of anyone that has ever been suspected of terrorism should be dealt with in accordance with the possible threat level they represent.
I don't know how someone would look like a terrorist, based on their race. Terrorists come in all races. If someone is suspected as being a terrorist purely because of their race, then this would be racist, and not something which would be acceptable.
No need, just upholster aeroplanes with pigskin seats.
Non politically correct suggestions aside, looking at photos it would seem clear that the terrorists have provided a clear profile of what they may look like, and anyone would be foolish to ignore that.
Nobody can stop suicide killers from getting though security, especially as these people have vast wealth and facilities backing them from rich Saudi Arabian extremists.
The good news is that dying in an explosion happens in 1/10,000th of a second.
Like aquasilver mentioned about the profile...basically...who has been guilty of the majority terrorist actions on board a plane.
If young college girls, 4 year old daughters, and grandma's have had to endure the humiliation and God knows what else...for the sake of security scrutiny...then by golly...any one else can have to go through it with out the guise of being persucuted by a particular race.
It is clear that steps and precautions need to be taken when one is trying to ensure the safety of others. Profiling is one thing but Racial Profiling is an indication we have learned nothing from the struggles of the 1960s and before. A few years back a man was killed-this man who I understood worked at a gas station wore a turban and because he appeared to look like those who had helped bring down the twin towers in New York he was murdered-(this man who wore a turban was an innocent man).
We should take steps to protect ourselves it is expected but how many rights are we prepared to remove in this process? Are we now expected to stand naked in front of strangers simply as a procedural process? Do we turn over all our credit cards social security number-talk about identity theft.
The idea that we could trust people with our most personal and private information is ludicrous. Just the other day I saw a online video where a young woman filed a complaint against the people who checked her at her last airline flight. The next time this lady came through it was clear (these) people did everything they could to make her miss that flight all over the fact that she did not want her breast milk x-rayed.
Frankly I believe from observing that we do a poor job in executing safety protocols as it would appear to me so much time is wasted on useless efforts for example looking at the same document three and four times that the person is carrying-(I'm not talking about ticket information). I believe if we are going to delay people for no other reason than suspicion then there needs to be a second flight ready to take them to their destination once nothing is found.
I see an even more revealing profile when you add these terrorists..…..
So we are looking for disaffected people, mainly men under 50, who have a dislike of the American government and her policies.....
Gosh, you guys are in trouble!
What is NOT apparent is why retired folk, young children, and most women are suspect.
The fact is that the 'authorities' are SOOOOO afraid of not being politically correct they make everyone suffer rather than admit that in truth they target the guys with 'shifty eyes and a sweat'
So the terrorists have won, because YOUR individual freedom and liberty has been taken from you in order to satisfy the politically correct idiots who demand 'equality in all things'
Two out of nearly thirty? I'm afraid you've posed a very weak argument. Yes, every factor should come into account where "probable cause" is exercised.
If the security was done through a private company - like the Constitution demands - then this wouldn't even be an issue. The company would have gone bankrupt decades ago.
S Leretseh, " The gangs of new york" back then were poor, uneducated, unemployed and violent as for as violence went in those days. These days the poor, uneducated, and unemployed is growing outside the racial/ethnic boundaries. What's next for the people?
I wouldn't be offended at all. If a certain race has a reputation for hating American's, it's better for all don't you think? Rather than being social correct I'd rather it be called whatever you want to call it. I'm not prejudice I'm careful, and rightfully so. I was assaulted many years ago because of my skin color and will always be overly cautious.
I understand that it's important for us as Americans to protect ourselves and I believe can and have the means to do so without making the mistakes we've made in the past. We basically imprisoned the Japanese Americans because of what they look like.
Japanese-American internment was the relocation and internment by the United States government in 1942 of approximately 110,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese who lived along the Pacific coast of the United States to camps called "War Relocation Camps," in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A … internment
During the earlier years of America if a Black person was seen or thought to have committed a serious crime against a white person finding the next Black person in or around that crime site was reason enough to kill him/them.
If we go revert back to this kind of attitude how long before we see someone different from us and we kill them because it's now acceptable to target a particular race only to discover they weren't the one/s we were looking for.
Living in SE Asia, I can tell you that first, second or even third generation Asiatic people have a generational reaction to serve their race and genetic ancestry over the country of residence when push comes to shove.
Irrational and reactive as 100,000 Japanese Americans being imprisoned may have been, it possibly saved many other American lives in the process.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were hardly the highlights of American civilisation, but did save innumerable American, Commonwealth and Japanese lives.
What is largely overlooked is the fact that the white Anglo Saxon racial composition that mainly forms the population of the northern hemisphere, are considered the enemy of most of the rest of the world, with good reason as we have in our racial history subjugated, occupied and plundered most of the rest of the world.
It is popular to see America as a great melting pot of humanity all learning to coexist in harmony, and the belief seems to be that if ONLY we all tried, we could all get along just fine.
I come from a country (England) which has a rich and varied history of immigration, my ancestors were Danish and Irish and I remember this despite the fact that our Danish sides arrival was hundreds of years ago, and my Irish line arrived in 1841 (due to the potato famine, a uniquely British form of genocide).
Needless to say I still view the history of the British in Ireland as abysmal and can see why Northern Ireland is an offence to the majority of Irish nationalists, and my last Irish relative was 170 years ago!
I also lived in Spain for 25 years, and in all probability my military ancestors probably also resided there when we were fighting in the Napoleonic wars.
Franco when advancing towards Madrid was asked how he would capture the vehemently Republican stronghold, he replied that he would advance on the city from four sides, but that his fifth column would win the day, "where are your fifth column?" his enquirer asked... "My fifth column are in Madrid" was his reply, and the phrase 'fifth columnist" entered the vocabulary.
We must take steps to ensure that racism is not practised for pure racial motives, but equally we would be foolish to ignore the fact that not all other races share our belief in freedom and equality.
Most of them hate us.
From what you've written it sounds like you've lived a rich life in that you've experienced so many other cultures and that's a good thing however the things you suggest are conflicting. You say "We must take steps to ensure that racism is not practised for pure racial motives" but that exactly what we're doing when we single out a race because we feel threaten. I know for a fact that people living in that targeted race clearly see this as racist.
Your statement about America being a melting pot, that really hasn't been the case someone else I feel expressed it better by saying "We are not a melting pot but rather a salad bowel because you can see all the distinct colors separated." We still in America have a lot of division, by race, by wealth, by religion etc.
We can not claim to All Be Americans and violate the Constitution and the laws we created for our county as it suits us.
"You say "We must take steps to ensure that racism is not practised for pure racial motives" but that exactly what we're doing when we single out a race because we feel threaten."
To clarify, I mean disliking or disadvantaging someone because they are white or black, yellow or brown, or even a strange tinge of beige/pink is pure racism, i.e it has no basis of reasoning, it's just ignorance.
Racial profiling is a whole different thing, because it is based upon experience, statistics, gained knowledge and intelligence.
There should be nothing personal about it, in that the person selected for scrutiny should only be selected because they fit a profile found to be potentially dangerous to our society.
Once it has been established that they do not fit the profile, they should be thanked for their tolerance and allowed to get on with life.
The alternative is that we accept that our enemies will on occasion kill some of us in mind;less acts of terrorism, and get on with life.
Personally I would prefer we took option two, and chanced our existence to random selection, whilst refusing to be cowed into ridiculous security checks that in any case would not defeat a determined terrorist.
I think one of your guys said: "Give me liberty or give me death"
Politically correct neutered living is boring and dangerous for freedom.
A salad bowel!!
Good lord it doesn't bear thinking about.
"What is largely overlooked is the fact that the white Anglo Saxon ... have in our racial history subjugated, occupied and plundered most of the rest of the world."
aguasilver, I basically agree with everything you write here, however, this statement is a bit of an oversimplification. Some things to consider :
--It is the Anglo Saxons & Western Civilization that hv been directly responsible for introducing the world's diverse peoples to each other.
--Without Western Civilization, Aztecs would still rule central America, and ritual cannibalism would still exist there - i.e. the world would still exist as it had 3000 years ago. Time would have stood still.
--Most of the countries that we know today would not have their names
-- It is the Anglo Saxon (British & Americans mainly) who were the only ones who intervened & prevented the Nazis and Japanese from continuing their ethnic cleansing and racism extermination campaigns
--It is only the Western Civilization countries that voluntarily gave back their territorial possessions (did the Russians voluntarily give back their satellite countries ? NO. Anyone believe for a moment that China will give back Tibet?)
--it is only countries of Western Civilization that hv been tolerant of multiculturalism ; even to the extent of allowing political empowerment of these new arrivals!
-- if not for the West, everything in which we regard as human advancement would not exist today
Finally, lest we forget - and with the help of Christianity - the world's entire moral compass has and still does emanate from America and British (Western Civilization). It has become mch too accepted today, perhaps even fashionable, to criticize , lampoon and condemn the past, the culture and the religion of white Christian people in America and Britain . For every negative there are a thousand positives.
Thanks, you actually said what I did not dare to mention.
Having lived in a few former British colonies, and having had a father who fought to keep them free, leaving India in 1948 as they emerged as a self ruled nation, I agree totally.
But how I described things is how THEY see them.
In Malaysia, where I currently live, we recently 'celebrated' the Malaysian Independence Day, and I heard the broadcasts extolling the way they fought of British rule, which rather belays the fact that we saved them from the Japanese and the Communists who were intent on subjugating them their systems.
As a Malay told me in discussion the other day (and he was a state official) he thanked us for implementing their land registration system, and providing justice and education, and our missionary schools are still the best schools to go to (despite now being secular).
But the rest of the world still hates us.
Clearly we are not going to agreed. For the things I believe I hear you saying is favorism. In a country that says All Men Are Created Equal doesn't seem to apply in your perception of equality from my prospective of course.
I think profiling should be used but as far as it being racial no. We have to remember that not all terrorist are middle eastern. Remember Timothy Mcvay? He was labled as a terrorist and he was white. It just seems to me like ever since 911 happened we all just want to point fingers and profile people who are or look to be of middle eastern race. We have terrorist of all colors, shapes and sizes. We have male and female terrorist and not all of them were born out of this country. We have people who were born and raised in the USA wo are terrorist, so we should be profiling on characteristic not on race. I could easily go to an airport and act so supcious but I bet you I would never get stoped a questestioned because I am white. The airport profilers need to look for suspious people not for middle eastern people.
His name is Mcveigh, and someone posted his picture in a previous post-- the one I just replied to.
I think it would help if people knew more about profiling. Any trait that will get hundreds of thousand of false hits, such as race, is useless. Effective profiles are always specific and rare trait combinations, or based on the actual behavior of the individual
"hundreds of thousand of false hits" surely works out better than one missed terrorist?
I do not support the security measures we now undertake, but not because the profiling may be slewed towards racial groups who are sensitive, yet produce the highest number of correct 'hits'; I am against because it curtails ALL of our personal freedoms to travel in privacy and with dignity, which is a victory for the terrorists.
I would rather have sky marshals on every plane and take my chances, than be treated like a criminal every time I check in.
What I object to is that BECAUSE of political correctness, they subject ALL of us to restrictions and searches that should be directed a the few who DO match the profile, and despite the smart ass posting of two white faces, the vast majority of terrorists are not white faced and from the northern hemisphere.
Political correctness will allow your personal freedom to be eroded away to nothing, so get used to standing in line and please be very obsequious to the officer or you will be detained and questioned or thrown off the flight.
The whole thing is about control of the people, and we allow it to happen, on drip at a time.
Agreed, better start praticing our goose stepping now. Lets face it we have incorperated all planks of a ommunist state, all that is needed now is one person to take control so we can point out the tyrant running the place.
So you aren't really engaged in a global war on terrorism, that's just to sucker us into backing you up again is it?
Believe me, the vast majority of terrorists in the UK are white faced and from the northern hemisphere.
Yeah, I see what you mean....
The Birmingham six (Daily Mail)
Mind you that last line middle looks like a white guy... maybe a convert?
Now where are those white terrorist photos we need to see?
I can't do pictures n posts but here are the real Birmingham Six
Here's three Americans for you.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/life/welco … his-three/
Better still, here's a list of terrorist attacks, you view it and decide how many fit your profile.
You will see out of the very long list going back 40 years that only in the last ten have Islamic attacks started to register and still nothing like as many as by the IRA.
Your list is missing, but anyway the UK seems to have dealt with the IRA 'threat', even if it was by surrendering to them.
I guess we need to deal with what is happening NOW, besides back then, we just shot them in the countryside as they moved into position.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … at_Britain
You speak as if the IRA threat is over! That's news.
Well, if Martin McGuinness becomes president of Northern Ireland I would guess we lost that one!
The IRA hardly represent a relevant threat now, and our 'Gestapo' are much more efficient now than then, back then it was a game between the boyos and our guys, now technology has overtaken them and we know when anyone farts loudly.
Our current problem is Islamic terrorists seeking to destroy our society.
Yes, 100,000s of false positives does mean a missed terrorist because the volume crashes the system. There is a level of inefficiency that results in total ineffectiveness.
Also there is another system that works: behavioral profiling matched with travel profiles and law-enforcement databases. So maybe we should do that instead of closing the airspace to non-whites.
Simply put, we feed terrorism by doing this, We but in were we dont belong, and we give them fuel for the fire. Now all they need to say is "See look what they do to their own people, imagine what they will do to us"
For what? They already have us taking off our shoes, x-raying us and our luggage, and feeling up our junk!!!
In order to invoke racial profiling I too question what does a terrorist look like. What defines looking different? Is it your son, daughter, sibling, parent, neighbor, teacher, professor or co-worker, a Lady GaGa, Shahrukh Khan, Eminem or Madonna? What role does the education/training in profiling of the security officer checking you at the airport play? If the wand used to scan you at an airport touches your body it sets off an alarm, requiring a more extensive search yet the security officer usually does not realize or admit to an error in using the wand.
No point in posting photos again, but basically the variety we are dealing with in today's world seem to look like 25-40 year old men of Arabic or Asiatic appearance who were primarily born as Muslim (or converted to the same) and have at some point been exposed to radical Islamic rhetoric and/or attended training camps in foreign countries, returning with the intention of committing acts of sedition against other countries, of which they may or may not be native born or naturalised.
If your relatives fit that description, then they will probably be looked at closely.
I agree that the actual implementation of this is farcical as they are trying to search everyone in order to mask the profile searches they undertake, and anyway if they (the terrorists) decide to bomb a plane again, they already know that it is easier to plant the bomb in luggage (as a baggage handler) than it is to smuggle it aboard.
Better to restore liberty and freedom of the vast majority of sane, normal citizens and profile those we know fit the bill.
If we see an influx of terrorists whose profile is more like the average western family profile, then search everyone.
The whole thing is about population submission to the government, so that when they say 'JUMP' the sheeple say 'HOW HIGH SIR (or MADAM)'
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