Please ! OWS v/s the tea party ! Now we have a problem ......I always remember what a friend of mine once said. "There is no pleasing the masses", go ahead prove me wrong ! From the origins of the colonies , to the Viet Nam war to today ! America ......wake the hell up. The two party system is destroying our environment. And yet .....no one see's through this .....come on , defend this state of ignorance!
"no pleasing the masses" is a crock comment made by people who'd rather not think hard. To be more accurate, you'll never please everyone but you CAN make things better for most people if you try hard enough.
The funny thing is that we have always had the power but have for the most part ignored it. The parties control us by polarizing us on issues and then defend their platforms with cleverly transparent promises.
I hope that we can once again become what Isoroku Yamamoto's famous quote stated after the attack on Pearl Harbor, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.". This would certainly be a welcome omen to bring to the two party debacle this republic has had to endure on its way to destruction. This OWS movement may just catch on and strike some real fear in that SBOP we call congress.
P.S. "SBOP" = Slimy Bag of Puss.
I'll defend it with a song from me youth:
"Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people right on."
It's 99% or 1%.....choose your side.
We are more than willing to do our part...just waiting for you to catch on.
Lovemychris Please !A revolution would be fine ! I could handle a real progressive vision , this movement however is being led by entitlement fattened spoiled pukes with nothing better to do than hang out at the park!
I won't argue that all kinds of operatives are going to try and co-opt.
In fact...this is weird...I just glanced an article, went back to find it , and it's gone!!
Anyway--it said Julian Assange speaks at OWS...now we know movement is co-opted.....something like that.
But the Basic knowledge that spurred this: The system is rigged, and not for MOST of us...is true! This will lead to something better, and the rotten stiffs will be sent back to the swamp--where they belong. Led by Russsshhhhhh Limbaugh: "Suuuuuuiiiiiiiiii"
That is my opinion.
Darn it LMC - You almost had me. I love reading you because you do so much research but then you had to go and ruin it by bad mouthing and innocent.
Assange? Yeah, there are conflicting stories about him....that whole Wikileaks thing was kind of weird. But I saw a video with his group (actually, it was just a computerized voice)...they said they would hack the banking system...said they were not going away. So, they are a force to be reckoned with!
There is a whole lot of dissatisfaction out there. I don’t believe either party has a handle on it. Both parties and been sucking up to the people with the money and that is not most of us. There is a need for representation of the American People, those of us who actually do the work. We need a fair share of what we help create. That is what made America great and lack of it is bringing America down.
oh really? you have met and talked with each of them?
you do realize many of those in these groups do oppose the two party system?
I have always thought conservatively , in a progressive kind of way , But Rush is a fool. As are most idealists! Right ,left or center. We need unification in action! We'll have to see how that plays out.
Before people take anything ahorseback says seriously, I remember reading a Hub a while back where he venomously defended the state of Israel (along with the occupation) and claimed to be native American. Now he's condescendingly mocking the protestors at OWS post after post in the politics forum. A part of me wondered how a Native American, given the history and all, could be so pro-Israel and pro-Federal Reserve system. Then it dawned on me, we call it Stockholm syndrome.
Don sounds like you're dillusional but okay , Here goes , I am no more a Native american than anyone here except that you assumed that I was one , I dont know where you got that but Hey your not the first to accuse me of stuff you honestly don't know of. And I do not support Isreal occupation of the west bank or constructing townships , if thats what you mean ! So check your facts or proove it out . One would have to wonder why Isreal is always trading one soldier to a thousand political prisoners though. As to these new protests , they will probably not amount to anything ! These are the same people who elected Pres. Obama here , and now are just claiming what he promised them , they believed in hope and change as I'm sure you did!!
Wrong, I was under no illusion that Obama would lead to any change. I used to work in life insurance, so I can tell when people are lying through facial expressions and body language rather easily. My lie detector was sounding off the minute Obama was elected and delivered his first big speech, while every black person around thought this was a "new beginning." These people really had their asses so badly handed to them; and yes, many are still in denial.
What people failed to realize, and still don't realize, is that Obama is a weak president. He doesn't have the courage to go at it alone, outside the system and without the approval of his associates. Perhaps deep down inside he actually believes what he says, but lacks the courage to actually do it.
Maybe he wants to live. And see his daughter live too.
I'm quite sure all Democratic presidents remember JFK....what happens when you try and do right by THE PEOPLE.
In fact, I read once that even Reagan hated the Federal Reserve....and it was Bush Senior who had him shot!...he was after all: CIA.
Brings to mind Cheney shooting his "friend" in the face.
These Zio-Nazi-Cons don't play nice.
I don't know whether it's just the have the courage to go it alone, but when a president is politically isolated, does he have the power to truly go it alone. Just asking.
He can with the people behind him. If he were willing to do the right thing, and have the support of the people, he could for the most part tell congress to shove it!
I have no doubt he fears the possible consequences of such actions, but in the end we all die, it's only a question of how and when. . . I don't know if the Zionist bankers would risk killing him this time though, he would turn into a martyr, and a lot of people have smartened up since the JFK assination and many would certainly see the connections.
President Obama , Bush , Carter no matter , It is the recurring acts of your congress , and senate. with the corporate lobbyists sitting quietly behind the scenes playing roulette with the costitution that are wringing this country dry. While you and I focus on an empty figurehead!
That's why I believe the "real power" lies with the corps and banking elite. Until they are challenged and constrained, there will never be a govt that can completely serve the people. Even if they want to.
That's the crux of this movement and why it's different from (and ultimately will be more successful than) the Tea Party.
They got part of the equation right but the total wrong.
Yes. It IS Congress and the Senate.
But, more insidious are those corporate lobbyists sitting quietly behind the scenes (the puppeteers pulling the strings of government).
Now the curtain has pulled on them and the "Great Oz" exposed.
The strings need to be cut and government reclaimed by the people.
Too much attention HAS been focused on either attacking or defending an empty figurehead. That is a great distraction that has kept us all occupied for 3 years.
The sleeping giant has been awakened. And he's hungry and really, really pissed.
Well,I read a book years back, and this lady said it's basically the same group of people causing all this havoc for all these years.....I mean Cheney and Rumsfeld go WAAAAAAY back: Together! And so does Herbert Walker Bush.
And so funny....when The Guvernator Ahhhhhnold was being groomed for office...who did I see leading him around, but George Shultz!!
Saw him around Palin too.
Heinz Kissinger...was around Obama and Palin.
All these guys going back to Nixon. and Vietnam. Kissinger war criminal. He's the one said "useless eaters" and "soldiers are nothing but dumb animals."
YUK. These guys NEED an a** whooping!!! and fast. Gotta get them before they escape to a country where there is no extradition (??), like Erik Prince did.
There are arrest warrants out for some of them in Canada and Spain....this I know.
A tangled web indeed and the plot thickens. Don't know if this story is being considered as significant in the US, but a classic example of how our two nations are entwined.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011 … sfeed=true
If you look at what groups these people at the top are a member of, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, most have or are in contact with people t that have attended Bilderberg conferences. Now I'm not going to go into..conspiracies, but if all these leaders are linked to one or a multiple of groups, wouldn't they have an agenda?
A common agenda? Well they do and it doesn't include us. Yes lovemychris they go way back, and they are very selective about whom they include in their clubs. They believe in keeping the 1% at the top, oh a few of us may slip through the cracks and make with hard work. Ah... but that keeps us or gives us hope, but for the most part the 1 % will keep it the wealth and power to themselves.
However they know we can beat them with sheer numbers, this is why they control the media. ...Yes they go way back!
The only problem is many blame republicans and act like the same isn't sitting on the other side of the desk.They are All in it. Until we can them all it aint gonna change folks. No more lobbyists , no more campaign funding by any of them!
I agree no more lobbyists. Govt do not necessarily have the power to control this though, I know you believe that to be the case, but if the president of the USA cannot even get a court ruling for transparency regarding party donations, how can they ever bring this new ruling about. Sadly, they have control in the courts too. If you want to hit the power you have to aim at the power.
If we get rid of the lobbyists (GREAT idea) maybe some of the lawmakers can actually stay and do an honest job.
If they still remember how, that is!
Perhaps they can, if they can eventually throw off the shackles that bind them. Not suggesting for one moment that they have been indebted in any way, or preciously bought and paid for.
The lines have been blurred so badly that I think it's hard to assess anymore who is a "good" legislator and who is a "bought" legislator.
I honestly don't think chucking the whole lot of them and bringing in a bunch of unschooled zealots is the answer.
We tried that in 2010 with the Tea Party freshmen (not me, personally, but America).
New and shiny is not necessarily better.
Old and seasoned is not necessarily corrupt beyond effectiveness....
Yeah I get where your coming from. After what's happened in this country I often have to remind myself that there's always an agenda when shinny new things are introduced. When I talk about "lobbyists" I mean those who operate in the interests of the elite. But, recent history in the UK shows, when the elite have has their fill with the unpopular, they find a whole new bunch of mugs. and then try to convince us that this is what we wanted all along.
Wonder if most of the current crew actually want to do an honest job?????
The supreme court last year allowed corporate equality to individual constitutional rights when it comes to donations in elections. The USA for sale to the highest bidder.
The only question is which industries own which members of Congress.
There's a direct correlation between certain corporate interests and certain political "values" which is what many Americans are objecting to right now.
What we aren't seeing are the under the radar (but still very real) connections.
Which, if we knew the details, would make us even more furious.
Maybe the protests should have started back in Jan. 2010. We knew then it was a threat to democracy. In the days after, Obama said this:
President Obama called it “a major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to drown out the voices of everyday Americans.”
And then look at the crazies voted into congress in mid-terms. They were bought.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/opini … cream.html
¶The 400 wealthiest Americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million Americans.
¶The top 1 percent of Americans possess more wealth than the entire bottom 90 percent.
¶In the Bush expansion from 2002 to 2007, 65 percent of economic gains went to the richest 1 percent.
The GOP controlled all of gvt during that time (2002-2006). Reforms started in 2007 when Barney Frank took control of the banking committee, and then in 2009, when Obama took office of pres.
Sorry-but to say that both parties did it is lame, and down-plays the real culprits...who are trying to get back and do it again!
You do realize that the top 25% and the bottom 25% change very frequently, right?
Like, if you work hard you can easily climb from lower to middle class, and if you suck you can fall from higher to middle class.
The term "bottom 25%" is meaningless because the individuals making up the group change frequently.
I don't understand how can you look at those statistics, which clearly show the vast disparity of wealth, and a lack of social mobility that makes it essentially impossible to get from the lowest income group to the highest for the majority of people in a lifetime, and then respond with an unsubstantiated claim that it's "easy" to climb from the lower to middle class by "working hard." I don't know if you're aware of this, but unemployment is...kinda bad these days.
Also, good job patronizing everyone who ever lost a high-paying job through downsizing, outsourcing, and bad management, and couldn't find a similar position in their field. Life is fair, so they had to have lost their jobs because they "sucked," right?
I wish you'd at least try to understand what's going on instead of arguing against it with irrelevant libertarian ideals.
Actually, not a single one of the stats that LMC cited showed in any way shape or form a lack of social mobility.
So... No. I disagree that there is little to no social mobility.
IN fact, studies have shown that there is an amazing amount of social mobility.
Check out this video from 5:38 on.
The statistics come from the Dallas Fed, of all places.
If you can't be bothered to watch the video (don't be offended, almost no one on HubPages bothers to watch videos that contradict them), I'll summarize it for you.
Of the bottom 20% in 1975, 29% worked their way up to the top 20% by 1991.
Translation: Work hard, get paid, don't expect miracles over night. For every 100 people out there, 7 of the least paid 20 were able to make it into the top paid 20 people in just under 20 years. Many of the remaining 13 likely got into the middle 60.
The only problem with that data is that 1975 was 35 years ago. The chances for someone starting out TODAY in the bottom 20% making it up to the highest 20% are considerably less, especially when you factor in the current unemployment situation.
Evan; that data is back in 1975. You know better than this. . .
I'll agree that during the baby boomer era social mobility was rampant and opportunity plentiful, but that isn't the case today by any stretch of the imagination. Not making excuses, but it is harder now than it was then.
Thanks to the tea-baggers on the supreme court...PUT there by Republican presidents. yes, I know..they are vetted and go through hearings, and some dems vote for them.....but it is a right-wing court, and the "little guy" does not stand a chance anymore. AND if a GOP is elected pres, and appoints the next robed one, abortion is done.
Romney: wants to overturn Roe v Wade, and make the Bush tax cuts permanent.
He needs to be as far away from power as possible.
Republicorp...back to the dark ages.
OWS....KEEP AT IT! or we are doomed.
All the more reason for a housecleaning all of them. Insanity = voting the same way over and over epecting different outcomes....? A grass roots movement to oust them all!
I don't want to oust all of them! I like a lot of them. And they are trying to do the peoples business
It is the GOP who is to blame here. And it's about time people realize it.
I'm tired of people saying it's both parties...it's not!
Horsebucky ! "GOP party is at fault" ,right , I say this , it is exactly this mentality that has gotten us where we are today.....Point the finger....do the dance ....rah rah rah! Such idiousy repeats itself over and over again untill thats all thats left standing.
Can you tell me this: How come it's all of a sudden "all of them"? No one ever said booh about your R's when they were running things!
Well. those who did were called un-American.
Why is it all of a sudden Both Parties to blame?
I think it's the Right's way of deflecting...cause they KNOW who is to blame...how can it not be? They hald sway for decades.....who else is to blame, besides the American people for electing them.
It's not both parties...you take credit when things go good, you can take credit for the failures
WE need a new system. GOP is offering more of the awful same...cause it's good for THEM.
Both groups - Tea Party and OWS - want the same thing, but are too dumb to admit it, and they keep making fun of one another.
They both want reduced government that doesn't bailout companies.
The fact that they make fun of one another shows that they don't understand their own goals.
Good luck to them both, but they're both misguided.
OWS and the Tea Party have certain overlapping agendas, but that doesn't mean they want the same thing. There are differences between the groups.
I'm not going to spell them out for you as it's sufficient to say you don't know what you're talking about.
The differences between the two groups have been characterized quite colorfully in recent threads/posts.
Without cheating (e.g., looking through all the relevant posts) and relying solely on my admittedly imperfect memory, some of the key differentiators include:
Are dirty lazy hippie slaggards born with silver spoons in their mouths living off trust funds whining about anything and everything. Although unfocused in their demands, they are lock-step liberals. They are naked and filthy, having public sex and defecating everywhere (Woodstock redux).
For some strange reason, though, the OWS mantle is being taken up in cities across America and other countries, too.
Tea Party Protesters
TPers are true American patriots (many of whom look the part in their wigs and tri-cornerned hats adored with actual teabags). They have all memorized the Constitution (at least one portion of the Second Amendment). Their name is an acronym for Taxed Enough Already (TEA). Their mascot is the "Don't Tread on Me" Snake.
They would never think of having sex in public but it's aok to bring concealed weapons to their rallies.
They detest government overspending and believe in a balanced budget -- at any cost(except military spending, of course).
They don't like debt, especially if it is mentioned in the same sentence as "ceiling."
They hate Obamacare and the man behind it.
They are very, very clear on their values. No vagueness here.
America is exceptional. Other countries are not (except Israel).
Liberty is our collective most highest aspiration.
Freedom is a right, unless you happen to be a pregnant woman or a gay person in love.
The main focus of their protests is government. They voted in a bunch of their cronies to Congress in 2010. So far these newbies have learned one word. "NO!"
I'm sure I'm missing some key points but it's after midnight here and I'm loopy.
Both groups want their government to stop bailing out losers.
There's only one candidate who agrees with them: Ron Paul. But both groups ignore him. This fact alone pretty much succinctly underlies the fact that they don't actually believe in what they believe.
Go ahead and try it out. Ask some members of the Tea Party and/or OWS. Here's what the conversation will look like:
You: "Do you want to stop bailing out failed companies and banks with your tax dollars?"
You: "Did you know that there's only one candidate who agrees with you AND has a 30+ year-long track record to back it up? It's Ron Paul!"
OWS: "He's an evil Republican who wants to murder babies and hates [insert randomly generated group of individuals]"
TP: "He doesn't want to bomb Tehran!"
You: "But ... you just said..."
Them: "Either way, he doesn't stand a chance to get elected. After all, we agree with him, but the media doesn't like him".
G'head, give it a shot. I know I have - to both sides. This is exactly what the conversation looked like.
Now you are claiming the puppets at the end of the Kochbro strings and the people who want to reign in the billionaires want the same thing?
Is there a Nobel prize for advanced conspiracy theory?
Up to a point. But we've already passed that point.
This article explains the similarities and difference between OWS and TP well, I think.
In a funny way, OWS is becoming a microcosm of America herself: The great melting pot movement!
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/ … tests.html
Conservatives Support Protests
Posted on October 7, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog
Conservative Groups Support Protests
Last month, I called on conservative groups to endorse the Occupy Wall Street protests: It is time for some big conservative endorsements, to rally around the non-partisan issues important to all Americans.
The Tea Party should endorse the protests, but so should the Oath Keepers, taxpayer rights groups, conservative Christians, limited government groups, and all other conservative groups.
Yesterday, the Oath Keepers and a founding member of the Tea Party announced that they are supporting the protests:
Oath Keepers sees good reason to stand in the streets with these awakening souls and protect their right to free speech, to peacefully assemble, and to redress their grievances to their government, as the Constitution prescribes for all Americans. That is one thing. Another facet of our initiative is to use these public gatherings to reach and teach many who now hunger for the truth – we can show them how the Constitution will protect them better than an oversized, bloated Federal behemoth hell-bent on controlling every aspect of each citizen’s life.
To point this out to the masses, Oath Keepers is organizing a joint effort along with Alex Jones of Infowars dot com (who himself called for an Occupy the Fed movement); Steven Vincent of End The Fed; Danny Panzella’s Truth Squad TV; Brandon Smith of Alt-Mkt.com; Gary Franch of Restore The Republic; and others as quickly as we can contact them. Remember Bob Dwyer, the guy who started the first Tea Party to launch the Ron Paul revolution? He’s in. The forces of Constitutional rule of law must muster now to deflect the bile being belched forth by the socialist/statist extremists …. Oath Keepers has the message American youth need. If we do not go out into the street and give them the truth, can we really say we’re still honoring our Oath?
Common Ground Between Conservatives and Liberals
As I’ve previously noted, both liberals and conservatives hate corporate socialism (where the federal government favors giant corporations at the expense of the little guy) . The Oathkeepers announcement zeroes in on this issue in a way that both conservatives and liberals can agree on:
When a corporation becomes larger than is useful, and seeks to concentrate financial power into the political and governmental spheres, its likeness is no longer the King Snake, but instead is more like a Rattlesnake. At a point we call such corps “Monopoly Capitalists”. By the time a grouping of such Monopoly Capitalist corps are setting U.S. foreign policy, which the arms industry certainly does nowadays, the problem becomes unbearably apparent. Bechtel comes to mind, along with Halliburton, the Carlyle Group, Monsanto, General Electric, et al.
That part of Wall Street is certainly to blame. But that is not “Capitalism”. Instead, it is “Monopoly Capitalism”, and it is now observably moving America into a new world order with intent to place America under the alleged authority of a one-world government. As such, Monopoly Capitalism is un-Constitutional and must be opposed.
OWS the new, improved TP?
Karl Denninger – one of the founders of the Tea Party – supports the protests (even if he doesn’t agree with some of the positions taken by some of the protesters) Denninger posted the following letter today:
You know what the “Occupy Wall Street” movement is?
It is all the things that were in the original Tea Party, but were steadily ignored as the TP became a Republican booster club.
The Tea Party is a contradiction. They want a balanced budget, but they also want the US military to intervene everywhere …. Individual rights are important too, but don’t push it too far. After all, republicans came up with today’s policies.
There are a few nuts in the OWS crowd, but from what I hear “Occupy Wall Street” is about bringing the fraudsters to justice. Its about changing the banker/government dynamic that runs this country. It’s about free markets. It’s about ending endless debt. It’s about stopping the wars. It’s about the rule of law. It’s about the libertarian soul of America.
Since the TP lost the focus of addressing the root problems of America, they remain unresolved.
This video - if you actually bother to sit down and listen to the guy for 10 minutes - pretty much explains succinctly how both the Tea Party and the OWS movement are quite confused.
it does so in an indirect manner, but does so nonetheless.
PS - if you are in too much of a hurry to watch the whole video, then please don't bother replying to it.
These uprisings , on both sides of the issues are the same as they have always been down through history , the masses rise up unorganized ,angry , and without leadership! Hence just an angry and possibly pre revolutionary movement! Ask yourselves this ; Are you ready for anarchy! because Americans right now are no where near organized in their anger! No where near curing the illness , partison bickering brought on by a belief in entitlement shortages. No different than the sixties uprisings . headless , mindless ,meaningless and going nowhere fast, changing nothing in government! Which is where we HAVE to do it!
1968 Olympic Medalist and activist John Carlos speaks at Occupy Wall Street… (Pearl Gabel for News)Occupy Wall Street sees John Carlos, 1968 Olympic medalist.
BY MICHAEL O'KEEFFE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Tuesday, October 11, 2011
"John Carlos was vilified by the sports establishment for raising his black-gloved fist in a defiant black power salute on the medal podium at the 1968 Summer Games in Mexico City, scorned for using the Olympics to draw attention to racism in the United States.
But Carlos, the bronze medal winner in the 200-meter dash that year, told Occupy Wall Street protesters at Zuccotti Park on Monday night that he has no regrets - and that he is proud to give them his support.
"I am here for you," Carlos said. "Why? Because I am you. We are here 43 years later because the fight is still to be won. We must never stop, for this day is not for us, but it's for our children."
Carlos and his U.S. Olympic teammate Tommie Smith rocked the sports world in 1968 by lifting their arms in dissent after they had won the bronze and gold medals in the 200-meter dash, just one moment in a life Carlos has dedicated to battling for social justice.
Carlos, in New York to promote the autobiography, "The John Carlos Story," he wrote with sportswriter Dave Zirin, said he felt a strong kinship with the protesters even before he returned to the city.
"Society is broke and these people are here to say 'We need to fix it,'" said Carlos, who grew up in Harlem and now lives in California.
Kirya Traber, a New School student who joined the protest on Monday, said it was fortuitous timing that Carlos' book was released just as the Occupy Wall Street protest has spread to scores of cities around the country. "I'm really inspired by him being here," she said. "I think this movement, whatever it may become, gets its relevance from linking civil rights leaders with those of us here today."
Carlos said the New York police officers standing around the perimeter of Zuccotti Park were not their enemies - many of them, he said, are likely struggling with student loans and mortgage payments and with fears that their jobs will be cut. "The cops are in the red zone, too," Carlos said. "The fat cats are getting richer and the mouse is starving to death."
His words reverberated with Scott Reing, a Brooklyn Law student who said he is a Republican who embraces capitalism. "If you work hard, you deserve to be on top," Reing said. "But the system is broken."
Other pols who are with it:
.......who knows how many others!!
Get the corporatists OUT...GOP and BLUE DOGS!
Interesting this person will not show their face.
Started saving for college at 17?
And who does this model student think pays for his scholarships?
I hope this know-it-all is happy with the 30+ hour minimum wage job because that's likely the only job he's gonna have after graduation.
It's easy -- expected, glamorous, even -- to live cheap when you are a student.
Not so much when you worked your way up the corporate ladder for 35 years only to find not only your job, but your entire industry, disappear.
And guess what? At 58 you're undesirable (not that age discrimination exists).
Meanwhile, you are responsible for your family of 4.
Your wife is doing her part by working 2 part-time jobs, but those only cover grocery money and the utilities.
You'd be more than willing to refinance the house (or take a second) but you've already been turned down 4x because you don't have sufficient "income" to pay a lower monthly mortgage (although you apparently have enough to pay the fixed rate mortgage you took out when 7% was the going rate. Go figure).
So what should you do?
Do you take your daughter out of college, even though she's only got 2 more semesters till graduation?
Do you tell your high school-aged son he can't play sports anymore because you no longer have health insurance and if he happens to get hurt it would bankrupt you?
Oh yes, did I mention that your elderly father is also living with you, having trusted in the stock market for decades, only to see his retirement savings demolished in the crash of 2008???
Yes, all those really poor decisions are finally catching up with you and your family.
Is your scenario supposed to be about me? Let me make a few corrections. I am 33 years old and the soul provider for a family of six. I paid off my student loans, and my wife's student loans in less than four years of marriage, along with the vehicles. Once we became debt free, we bought a house for $156,000, I recently refinanced the loan and will be able to have it paid off in less than nine years.
I live frugally because I want to live within my means, My wife clips coupons and we shop at second hand stores for cloths. By the way, ten percent of my income goes to Jesus, (before taxes), yet some how my family manages to get by happily with food in our bellies and a roof over our heads, with absolutely no government assistance. Also my elderly father, a retired shipyard worker, who worked for his money all of his life was very careful with what he had and saved for the future.
Did you know if you quit smoking you could cut eight years off your home loan with the money you save? That's off of a 15 year fixed. And all you have to do is quit inhaling fumes from those toxic cancer causing sticks, imagine what you could do if you stopped drinking.
If that kid is as smart as he claims to be; he would be living at home for four years while working that minimum wage job for 12k a year. During his vast amount of free time (because he only works 30 hours a week); he would go to the public library to get the very same education that he's studying.
He would also save 10K a year of that 12K. I’ll allocate 2K a year in his budget so he can experience another country (and get to learn their women). Once he's finished his 4 years of being an autocrat, he has 40K in savings, probably a better education, life experience, and job experience.
Oh wait a second; he thinks he's in the top 1% of income earners? Scratch that idea; the kid doesn't have the head, he can't do math.
Yeah, slavery is good, human rights and equality are wrong. I want to be a slave, I like it when Wall Street laughs at my gullibility, as they laugh all the way to the bank. Honestly, I am educated.
I would not blame Wall st, or the govt, and honestly, there is no gun to my head.
Honestly, all I get from this is that he was trying to live within his means...and I think it's commendable.
A lot of people these days don't--including my husband and me, although we are trying to rectify that now...better late than never.
I agree, Tam Cor (partially, anyway. :0).
Te plus side of this movement (and its precursor the Tea Party) is the very real reminder for us that crushing debt is... crushing.
Personally and politically.
But I don't get from the OWS movement that people are blaming Wall Street for their debt.
They are blaming Wall Street for owning the government and for dubious business practices that hurt average Americans.
Debt is just the tip of the iceberg.
But if you no longer have a JOB (wasn't that supposed to be what government is focusing on since 2008 and certainly since 2010?)and you've already lost your house and reduced your expenses to the bones and can't get another job ..then it's kinda hard to reduce your debt.
I agree. Tom and I have been down that road...he lost his job...we lost our house. We had to downsize our lifestyle, and where we lived. It took him three years to find the part-time job he has, because he's in his fifties, and I think you know how hard jobs are to find at that age. Luckily it pays well enough for us to live on at the moment.
I can't blame Wall Street for all of our problems--and won't. I think it, and the government, though, needs a complete overhaul, and that is the main reason I like people rising up and speaking for something to be done. Now, if they could just get on the same page, get busy, work together, and get it DONE!
And another thing...if everyone quit living beyond their means--cut up credit cards, and if you don't have cash for that latest CD or piece of clothing, or expensive new car, then PASS it up...Stop enabling all these big companies and banks to get richer on YOUR choices. That's another step towards taking control back, and hurting those businesses that thrive on everyone who insist on "keeping up with the Joneses". I mean no offense, because I have been guilty of that myself, but no more...
I'm rambling here, sorry...too many thoughts running through my head, and I'm having a hard time collecting them into any kind of order, lol...
Bottom line, I guess, for myself, is that I support everyone who is trying to make a difference, because something really needs to be done...
So sorry to hear about Tom's job.
Glad you guys landed on your feet (or on foot, anyway).
This thread is a perfect example of the power of this movement. Instead of pointing finger at each other, we are listening to each other and actually *gasp* finding common ground!
It' hard to argue with the logic of reforms to both the corporate sector and government. Not just government. Not just Wall Street.
And ABSOLUTELY -- the consumerism culture has got to change and it starts with each one of us.
I like your wording -- stop ENABLING the big banks!
The problems you describe can be blamed directly on Wall street and the few people they serve. The economic situation is talked about as if it were a tangible thing when in fact all that is happening is that they （Wall street owners) just adjust everything to what people can afford to pay at just above working class. That calculation came to include both partners working (wasn't that a neat little con trick !) and then to include the money you are able to borrow on cards etc. The whole economic heat could be turned down in an instant but it is not in their interest. And of course there is nothing left to steal, they have had your retirement funds, your insurance funds and now all that is left is your houses.
For pete's sake get out there and burn the place down ! peacefully of course When we see pictures of thugs pulling Bush and co out of drain holes and beating them to death and our guys hanging drawing and quartering our traitor Blair, I will consider some semblance of balance is returning.
Unless they pay.....when will they ever stop? And get the RIGHT people for gods sakes....
Why this stupid attitude...oh they're gone now, it's over, move on? It's NOT over...they are still out there roaming around free!
Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, the other AG before Gonzales and any and all other creep or creepette who was involved.
Oh and the big cheezes...daddy Bush, Kissinger that whole old crowd too--
Or shut up and forever hold our peace.
Such a vibrant tug of war , this old worn out play on 'one agaist the other'. Its the GOP ....Its the libs , no its the Russians. Are we all as shallow as pointing the one old worn out index finger at the easy answer . The easy target ! In our minds at least , we could try throwing away the labels and realizing that all of America is angry at one out of control government ! Oor own !The one of our own creation, Eliminate the ruse of two parties from our minds and then think of solutions to each individual problem. TERM LIMITS , re-regulate wall street and the energy companies. ultra- regulate lobbiests , stop voting for the same tired from the same tired rhetoric , Gee guys ,everyones mad , lets do something about it!
I agree! I wish more did, though, then maybe something could finally be accomplished.
I'm all for the OWS and also the Tea Party, because at least they are TRYING to do something...trying to cause a shake up of some kind. They are all sick and tired of the status quo, and want to do something about it.
I have a feeling that there are folks from both the right and the left involved in the OWS and all the other groups that are popping up...because they are finally learning to quit leaning one direction or another, and start standing up straight to fix up this country!
Oh, nice comment from someone at the Daily Beast, Regarding Hilary's speech that economics, not military is the way to go:
"Interesting how conservatives see this as approval of their failed globalization experiment. The world's capitols are in flames and its banking systems in default but they were right somehow? How delusional can you get?
This is actually Secretary Clinton's acknowledgment that the world has changed. She's calling for nationalism in this country again and democracy around the world. It mirrors what our young have been telling us for some time
by either volunteering for the military after 911 or taking to the streets now protesting the corruption they see happening on Wall Street and Washington.
Our people cannot feel proud of themselves because conservatives have made this country a banana republic. Outsourcing, the Bush Doctrine, deregulation and privatization, graft and bribery, and allowing foreign money into our election process has left this country weak. We have become the laugh stock of the world.
Our children want to be gainfully employed and proud of their government again. The Republican Party took the American Dream away from them and gave it to the Communist Chinese. American conservatives have allied themselves against their own middle class with the world's Top 1% of billionaires and dictators.
What nation creates it's own economic competitors and continues to let its monopolies nurture them? What country starts wars on a hunch and continues them with nation-building while their own infrastructure crumbles? What country allows its stock brokerages to operate banks like casinos without any rules? What nation runs up its debt to give it's rich a massive tax cut while fighting two wars?
The failed conservative economic policies, their public displays of graft, and their complete disregard for the middle class disgusts our youth. The Bush/Cheney economic meltdown made its leaders paranoid and crazy with guilt. They act and talk like complete screwballs. Who would follow them anywhere? Why would anyone want to work with them in a bi-partisan spirit?
Because of this sad state of affairs, the next generation feels it's time they took this country to the next stage of democracy and away from the incompetents who still think they can keep this country hostage with parlor tricks in Congress.
There will be no going back. The kids are determined. The country is shifting gears for good."
Clap Clap CLAP!
Well, look who agrees with you!
“I understand the frustrations being expressed in those protests,” Obama told ABC News senior White House correspondent Jake Tapper in the interview to air this evening on ABC News “Nightline” from Jamestown, N.C.
“In some ways, they’re not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the Tea Party. Both on the left and the right, I think people feel separated from their government. They feel that their institutions aren’t looking out for them,” he said.
Saw this the other day:
"It can be inconvenient not being hooked up to a financial institution. Checking accounts have their place, on line bill pay is nice, certified checks, wire transfer, direct deposit etc. (with the exception of wire transfer all free) I have been with credit unions for most of the last 30+ years. I keep my IRA and extra cash in a brokerage account. I haven't had a savings account at a bank since I was a teenager. Never could stand banks.
You need to take advantage of these institutions free services. You ever pay interest on a charge card? Might be hard to believe but I never have and I charge almost every purchase. Been doing it for years. American Express rebates 1% on purchases, more on some things. Same with the other cards I have. They make their money off the stores and sheeple not me. I practice what I preach. As I said I don't like banks."
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