jump to last post 1-10 of 10 discussions (32 posts)

Can America Survive Another Stimulus Package or Recovery Summer??

  1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
    uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago

    It should be obvious to the objective that the programs pursued by Barack Obama have failed.  Unemployment grinds on at over 9% , even as the ranks of the hard core unemployed, no longer counted in that figure, grow and the pool of jobs continues to contract.

    The infrastructure repairs and other miracles promised with the original stimulus have not materialized, other wise why would further funding for infrastructure be required. 

    The real miracle is states like Wisconsin emerging from the red into the black despite being attacked by Obama, liberal media and the unions.  The real miracle is that, despite the violence by the Occupy crowd, civil unrest isn't happening.

    We are a poorer nation to day than we were three years ago.  Who has been in charge?  Whose policies are failing to bring the economy around?  Who is campaigning for another term as the Part II of the Obama Depression looms?


    1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      A better question is who has prevented the adoption of policies adequate to deal with the Bush recession. Answer: the GOP Teatards.

      1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
        uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Really, how long do incompetent Democrats need absolute control over Congress to pass their agenda?  There was no way they could be stopped but they failed to "fix" the economy.   

        I really do wish the Republicans had not taken back the House and had not ended the filibuster proof lock the Democrats had on the Senate.  I really do wish that liberals could run things unabated for about ten years.  Even though it would mean decades of suffering, I think it would have been better in the long run - the historical long run, on the order of 2 or 3 hundred years - for the disaster of the liberal state to take hold here.

        It is only through the United States imitating the Greek basket case that liberals would finally be relegated to the looney bin where they belong.

      2. uncorrectedvision profile image60
        uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So how long does the incompetent Barry get before he owns the disaster?  Remember how he flew back to Washington to take the lead on Tarp?  Brilliant.  Perhaps he should crowned Emperor Barack Hussein Obama I .  Liberals love rulers maybe he should be President for life, like that hack idiot FDR.

      3. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this


      4. Evan G Rogers profile image83
        Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I just can't believe that you ACTUALLY think that spending money through government is the solution to economic woes.

        We've blown over $16 trillion on bailing out banks and all that.

        I just simply can't believe that you believe that spending more money on nonsense is a good thing.

        Mind blowing.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Evan, what I'm saying is standard economics taught nearly every where except places like Bob Jones University. I majored in economics and took more courses in graduate school. The Fed is doing exactly what they were supposed to do according to my money, currency and banking professor and, incidentally, Milton Friedman and Bernanke's predecessor believed. There are two ways to stimulate the economy--monetary policy (low interest rates) and fiscal policy (deficit spending to make up for inadequate consumer demand and investment spending).

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image83
            Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That's fine.

            The Austrians from "Bob Jones University" foresaw all of the major economic problems years in advance in the last century or so.

            The "Mainstream Economists" are still scratching their heads trying to figure out why negative interest rates haven't solved our problems yet.

            Just remember: Keynes' entire theory rests, almost exclusively, on one data point.

            And, PS - The lessons of the Austrians were what was taught day in and day out in colleges until Keynes messed it all up.

    2. Quilligrapher profile image87
      Quilligrapherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hi again, UV.

      Once more, you pose interesting questions with obvious answers not necessarily to your liking.

      Job creation and real estate values are among the few issues still dogging the country.  Overall, the US economy is better off than most of the other industrialized nations.

      “We are a poorer nation than we were three years ago,” you say. While you may look at the national debt for a clue, I look at the Dow Jones Industrial Average.  The DJIA was 9,311 on 10/14/2008 and closed at 11,808 on 10/21/2011.  This tells me investors’ equity and big business overall has appreciated 26.8% in the three years the present administration has been in charge. In case you haven’t notice, the economy has come around for everyone except working class Americans who are still struggling with stagnant or no wages and with unfair business practices. The same wealthy segment of our society that has gained the most during the last three years is the one expecting you, me, and our grandchildren to pay off the huge national debt created by bailouts and corporate welfare that is now rolling over into trust funds for their grandchildren.

      My question for all the Chicken Little purveyors of gloom is why are there so few mansions and estates among the foreclosed mortgages in the news?  It is hard to understand why average Americans advocate so aggressively in favor of those who work so hard to suppress them.

      I know you see things differently, UV.  Perhaps we are viewing the world through different facets of the same prism.

      1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
        uncorrectedvisionposted 4 years ago in reply to this


        You and I will disagree, however you are congenial fellow so I will endeavor to muzzle my beast.  We no longer need news rooms, "journalists," editors or outlets to deliver information.  The internet is the greatest source of unedited information humanity has created thus far.

        Declining Standard of Living:
        http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/10/20/re … p-decline/

        Mansions and Luxury Homes Foreclosed:
        http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2008/ … reclosure/

        http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/03/ … s-a-peach/

        http://arizonamansions.com/Arizona_Real … sures.html

        http://www.businessinsider.com/foreclos … ons-2011-9

        Lost millionaires:
        http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/08/18/ … vanishing/

        http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/11/news/ec … /index.htm

        http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/ … 3320090915

        The Millionaire Next Door:
        http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/st … naire.html

        Some celebrate the decline of wealth in the United States because they have an issue with wealth or an issue with the United States - though often it is both.  We are encouraged to believe that millionaires are distant and cold having no regard for the rest of us when most millionaires in America come from our ranks. 

        If one is seeking distant and cold one should look to the bureaucracy of the distant government and its mechanisms.  Bureaucracies, public or private, tend to adhere to rules at the expense of compassion and kindness.  Do we really want to gift more authority to those cold, hard hearted and distant bureaucrats in a growing government that is increasingly wealthy while producing little more than confusion, hardship, paperwork and uncertainty?

        Thanks for the wonderful research prompt.


        1. Quilligrapher profile image87
          Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you, UCV, for your gracious comment. Congeniality is an important part of any serious discourse.

          Bravo, UCV. You win the prize for out-linkng me, however, quantity is no substitute for quality. I am wondering if you read this volume of material before all the cutting and pasting. I’m also confused by your claim we disagree when you are posting links that actually support just about everything I said in my prior post.
          I said average Americans are suffering more than the wealthy and your very first link to the CBS affiliate in Miami actually agrees with my contention. “According to the Christian Science Monitor, the average American now has $1,315 less in disposable income than they did at the beginning of the Great Recession.” “But, while the middle class is quickly being squeezed out of existence; the wealthy and the super-wealthy continue to grow in America.”  “According to a Credit Suisse report, the overall numbers of millionaires and billionaires have rapidly increased in recent years and the U.S. claimed the title for the greatest number of richest citizens, with 35,400.” (1) All the quotes in this paragraph are from YOUR link. I guess we don’t disagree since you did such a fine job underscoring my points.
          I asked why so few? Now, your second link is about foreclosures pending during 2008 on the south fork in Suffolk County, New York, and in particular the upscale summer vacation townships of East Hampton and Southampton noted for their celebrity residents. “Twenty percent [approx 24] of those borrowers live in homes that are worth more than $1 million, according to figures from the Suffolk County clerk.” An East Hampton realitor added “the high-end, delinquent borrowers are finance types, lawyers and speculators who overextended themselves on second homes and investment properties.” “In addition, more than 800 East End homeowners - a mix of rich and middle-class people from Riverhead to Montauk - have been flagged by credit-monitoring companies this year for late payments.” Dare I compare these 24 (3%) high rollers to the other 800 homeowners (97%) who appeared to be defaulting on the mortgages for their primary residences? (2)
          You speak about the decline of wealth in the United States but it isn’t happening at the high end of our society. Your link to an August 2011 Wall Street Journal article led me to “The number of real millionaires (those who have a net worth of a million or more) soared 16% in 2009, and jumped again in 2010. The U.S. now has a record number of millionaires, according to Merill Lynch and Capgemini. The number of people worth $30 million also rebounded.” (3)

          I wish I found something in your roster of links to support your claim that we disagree but I didn’t.  I wish the time spent gathering the links was matched by your reading them because I fear you missed an opportunity to learn about how disproportionate the levels of economic pain is between the "haves" and the "have nots". I hope you realize that I do not disagree with everything you say. I have trust in your sincerity, UCV, but most of the documents in your last post do not support these specific claims in your OP statement with which I firmly disagree:     

          Stay well, my friend.

          (1) http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/10/20/re … p-decline/
          (2) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/i … 38AAE05DA5
          (3) http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/08/18/ … vanishing/

  2. MikeNV profile image74
    MikeNVposted 5 years ago

    "A better question is who has prevented the adoption of policies adequate to deal with the Bush recession. Answer: the GOP Teatards."


    Arguing with Ralph is like arguing with a Pro Wrestler.  They both live in the land of make believe pretending like what they say matters.  Neither has any concept of reality.

    The problem is the Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking.  The "Bush Recession"... didn't Hulk Hogan say that?  And now he is no longer supportin Obama.  Nobody drinks more Kool-aid than Ralph and Kindergartners.  But he is entitled to his own dullusional non-fact based opinions... well at least until Obama finishes Destorying America and we loose all our freedoms and rights.

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image60
      uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      More about exercise than progress.

  3. melpor profile image88
    melporposted 5 years ago

    Now that President Obama is bringing the soldiers home, I believe our government can afford another stimulus package if they need to do that to jump start the economy. They will have the money now to do it.

    1. lovemychris profile image79
      lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, and if they could pry fair taxation out of the gripping hands of the Tards, we could have Billionaires and Corporations paying like real workers, and that would help too!

      It's for the troops, people...for the troops!

      you know: USA USA USA ????? did you forget?

    2. uncorrectedvision profile image60
      uncorrectedvisionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If the government really wanted to jump start the economy they would all leave Washington D.C., pass no new laws and never return.  The foolishness, inefficiency and haphazard experimentation with the economy is its eventual ruin.

  4. 0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    Yes, attempting to compensate for problems created by policies implemented during the Clinton and Bush years hasn't worked. Bush's 700 billion dollar bailout didn't work either. Let's all continue the fantasy that the system that has failed us can miraculously fix itself if we simply let one of the parties responsible have another go at it. Because, hey, change can never be good. Right? roll

    1. lovemychris profile image79
      lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Well, from what I see, R's want to give America away to their friends. Then we will have privitized everything...

      Schools for profit, prisons for profit, medical for profit, roads, parks, beaches, you name it....America, land of the money-grubs.

  5. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    Uh oh... Prez sends Construction Bill to Congress!!! Paid for .7% tax increase on incomes over a milli....

    R's? "Tax hike? Jeeeeves, my smelling salts, I may faint"...

  6. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Well, I don't want his world anymore.

    I was proud to see "this project funded by the American Recovery and Investment Act" around my town and other towns around here. Upgraded our bus terminal very nicely...and badly needed. Fixing roads in a couple of places I can think of. I'm sure those people who got jobs out of it were happy too.
    And, you know, he had more money alloted for jobs, but Susan Collins and Olympia Snow would only agree to the Stimulus if he put that $$ in.....*drumroll*...tax cuts.

    And now Obama has put in a Construction Bill to Congress....you know, jobs....much needed infrastructure work.

    And you know the R's will turn it down...100% of them. Because it is paid for by a .7% increase in taxes on those making over a million a year.

    So I get it. No tax increase, ever ever ever for any reason whatsoever.

    Maybe some businesses who are sitting on money could help fix our infrastucture?? Provide much needed jobs?
    No, I get it....no jobs until Unions are outlawed and owners call all the shots.
    *sigh*...no, I don't want his world anymore!

  7. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    This is what the R's have in mind for us too, IMO:

    "I read that famous Roman landmarks are falling down before tourists' eyes b/c Berlusconi has so shrunk revenues with all his tax cuts. Sad."

    A barren wasteland where only the 1% have anything.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image83
      Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Social mobility is alive and well in the US.

      From the 1970s - 1990s 29% of the bottom 20% were able to move into the top 20%.

      Social mobility exists and is alive. The countries that don't have mobility are the ones with strong governments.

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Who cares about social mobility?

        I don't WANT mobility....I want stabilty.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image83
          Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago in reply to this



          1. lovemychris profile image79
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The Rich are preventing stablity. In the current system, they own most of everything there is to own.

            Ergo, the rest suffer.

            1. Evan G Rogers profile image83
              Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But that argument makes no sense because anyone can become rich.

              Or, at least, studies have shown that with 20 years of hard work, about 1/3rd of the poorest 20% can become the highest paid 20%.

              Has it clicked yet? Or has "RICH = EVIL" completely taken over your mind?

              1. Quilligrapher profile image87
                Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Evan,

                Do you have a link to this study?  I would like to read it.

                Thanks for your input.

              2. lovemychris profile image79
                lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "It's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps when you have no boots."--Barack Obama

                I happen to think it is set up that people remain poor. This Horatio Alger crap is just that...statistics prove me out! How many people born in poverty get out? I bet it's not high.

                If you are poor, in the inner city, or out in the boonies--you need resources to survive. That takes money.

                Like me...if my car breaks down, I'm screwed!!! But, I have a boyfriend to help, and a mother to help.....

                Suppose you have nothing, and everyone you know has nothing, and R's take over again, and social programs are cut...Madd Maxx baby.

                It's the system that is evil, and the Rich just want to keep it that way, because it benefits them, IMO. Not ALL rich people though, I'll bet not even many. In fact, I'll bet MOST really wealthy people would not mind paying more...after all, they are not deaf, dumb and blind...they see what's going on.

                It's the CULT that needs to go. The Baggers.

  8. PrettyPanther profile image85
    PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago

    The 1990s were up to 20 years ago.  Got any recent data?

  9. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    BTW, I happened across this today, and almost lost my twinkie! ALL this waa waa waaaaaaing about rotten gvt preventing poor business cause it's just tootoo horrible thanks to Obummer....

    Well, this is from Forbes Business Magazine;

    Investing|10/20/2011 @ 3:43PM |3,956 views
    US Businesses Not Being Strangled By Regulation And Taxation, World Bank Says

    The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer.

    "With the economies of the U.S. and Europe sputtering along on fumes, politicians are quick to blame regulation and taxation as the main cause of a lackluster business environment. Yet, according to the World Bank’s 212 page “Doing Business 2012″ report, released on Wednesday, there is less red tape for setting up shop in the U.S. than there is in all of Europe, Latin America, Africa and most of Asia."
    WHAT? So, whose been crying all this time, and for what?

    chuckle chuckle...like I don't know. smirk.

  10. Paraglider profile image89
    Paragliderposted 4 years ago

    Greetings Q - I'm enjoying reading your contributions this morning, but unfortunately am too busy right now to join in.

    1. Quilligrapher profile image87
      Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So nice to hear from you, PG. I hope all is well with you.  I miss your quality input around here alot.  Looking to hear more from you in the future.