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Ron Paul promises to end federal student loans.

  1. Quilligrapher profile image89
    Quilligrapherposted 5 years ago

    Presidential hopeful Ron Paul, with a net worth reported between 2-1/4 and 5 million dollars, has announced a new plan that will make it more difficult for poor Americans to escape from under the yoke of poverty. In addition to shaving $1 trillion dollars from the federal budget by eliminating five Cabinet departments, including education, he is also promising, if elected in 2012, to end the Federal student loan program.
    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/art … ent_loans/

    "It's all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say [it] to a bootless man" --- Martin Luther King Jr.

    What do you say?

    1. Paul Wingert profile image79
      Paul Wingertposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I don't see how he raising cost of tuition has nothing to do with student loans. Student loans have one of the lowest interest rates. Another factor to consider is how credit card companies prey on college students with their crazy interest rates also adds to the debt. So what does he propose to solve the situation? Or he clueless?

      1. kmackey32 profile image82
        kmackey32posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Are you kidding me? I have been paying off a student loan that I got in 1998 with the interest and fees it was well over $10,000 at one point.

        1. shemiahl profile image60
          shemiahlposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Are you still paying on it? I'm in school now and I'm not looking forward to the repayment.

        2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This will help you realize who the real villain is:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llrmq8q3E24

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And this jab at Ron Paul's personal worth? Give me a break. Let me remind you of what this politician does that not a single other politician does:

      He has never voted to raise taxes.
      He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
      He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
      He has never taken a government-paid junket.
      He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

      He voted against the Patriot Act.
      He voted against the Iraq war.

      He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
      He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.


      HE HAS PROPOSED A PLAN THAT WOULD REDUCE HIS INCOME BY 90% IF HE WERE ELECTED PRESIDENT

      Not a single other Congressman - OR PRESIDENT - can make these claims.

      Leave his net worth out of it - he's not trying to steal your wealth like the other politicians are.

      1. psycheskinner profile image79
        psycheskinnerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I get it.  You don't think poor people should go to college. Because that is what a pure free market leads to. Then you won't have to put up with people like me having economic and political influence.

        1. SparklingJewel profile image66
          SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          please read the previous post to yours

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
            Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            rofl

            Reading skills are quite scarce even on a forum, who's main purpose is to read others' opinions.

      2. American View profile image60
        American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And the disillsuaion continues

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          the what?

    3. Deni Edwards profile image91
      Deni Edwardsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      This shouldn't surprise anyone who knows anything about Ron Paul.  Ron Paul is a true Libertarian.  He believes that the role of the government should be to protect people's private property--nothing more and nothing less.  He is anti-taxes, period.  This means he doesn't believe in public schools, fire department, police department, etc.  He believes everything should be privatized, and if you can't afford an education, you should rely on the kindness of people's hearts for donations.

      That'll work.  America is full of kindness...

    4. American Romance profile image60
      American Romanceposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      guys, pay attention, you all sound like the stupid wall street protestors! He said he would do away with FEDERAL LOANS! meaning the market place can compete for student loans! This is much better than the federal govt and taxpayers being on the hook for these loans!  Besides many went to college without loans! All is possible without govt! Get a grip!

    5. Bendo13 profile image83
      Bendo13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I say the government shouldn't be involved in giving out student loans like that because there is no competition and they just hand them out to anyone...

      When banks gave them out they competed to give you the best interest rates so you'd go with them over another institution and you had to qualify... you know know, like be able to actually pay them back by having a job.


      This might be a good thing for you to watch:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE
      (*just ignore the sales pitch at the end*)

  2. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 5 years ago

    I think that's a terrible idea! I would never have earned my degree without student loans. Education is one way to escape poverty. It's better to offer low-cost loans for education and have more productive citizens.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Most people with federal loans today are jobless and in debt.

      In fact, Obama is just now promising to waste more tax payer money to bail them out.

      "Got debt? Don't worry - you don't have to pay it! Sure we lent you the money to get into debt, but now we'll give you money since you can't find a job!!"

      http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-obama-s … 7335.story

      You can't make this idiocy up! This is a well written comedy!

      1. AEvans profile image70
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If it wasn't for our government selling us out and moving jobs overseas, those student loans would be paid. Jobs would be lucrative and he wouldn't have to be concerned about a bailout. How can many students pay the loans, if there isn't any work? Most of them are working for minimum wage and the purpose of going to school was for a higher education and being able to work for a nice salary.  Our government should be bailing out people, they didn't have any issues with bailing out banks. smile

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So, you're mad at government for sending jobs overseas...

          ... and you're happy at them for giving kids UNLIMITED, UNQUESTIONED LOANS at the age of 18...

          Something isn't adding up.

      2. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't say the loans shouldn't have to be repaid - they should.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And if you take out a loan that you can't repay (lest your predictions about the future come true)...

          ... then you should sink, right?

          Our government lured people into taking out loans they couldn't afford. I remember I was in High School during this whole trickanery.

          "Damn! College is expensive" I would say. Numerous others would reply with "Just apply for a college loan - just about anyone can get them today".

          I didn't go into debt, thankfully. I had parents who were willing to UNDER-CONSUME to gain enough wealth to send their children to college.

          Anyway: if you take out loans you can't repay, then don't expect others to bail you out.

          1. Bendo13 profile image83
            Bendo13posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            And some college recruiters (especially the online ones) will say... oh don't worry, when you graduate college you'll be able to pay off your loan faster!

            BS... most people don't get good jobs right out of the gate and a lot of the time it's not even in the field they went to school for.

            The whole "oh, you've got a degree?  well i'll pay you more... oh, I don't care what you majored in... you've got your receipt, i mean degree" crap has to stop!

      3. American View profile image60
        American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        "Most people with federal loans today are jobless and in debt."

        No here is just a typical try to scare you unresearched statement. Cite the government report that shows the exact statistices of how mant Student loans are currently on the books and how many of them are unemployed.

        1. kerryg profile image86
          kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I don't have the stats on the number of student loans and percentage of people holding them who are jobless, but total outstanding student loan debt is rapidly approaching $1 trillion and will probably exceed it by the end of the year.

          http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/col … 50818676/1

          Meanwhile, the class of 2011 faced the highest unemployment rate for college graduates since records started being kept, and the unemployment rate (not including underemployed and discouraged graduates) for young college graduates is more than twice that for college graduates aged 25 and over.

          http://www.epi.org/publication/bp306-class-of-2011/

          1. American View profile image60
            American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            "the class of 2011 faced the highest unemployment rate for college graduates since records started being kept"

            If you look at the what their personal opinion, not government facts, their prediction is based on 16-24. If you do 24-26 years old survey that will give you a true number of post college unemployment, One cannot count ages in school to represent your point of after graduating college.

  3. PrettyPanther profile image83
    PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago

    I want my tax money spent on education, including programs to help low-income people enter college.  Ron Paul's priorities are all wrong.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Your tax money HAS been spent on education -- now there are thousands out there with education, but NO JOBS and are THOUSANDS in debt!!

      http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-obama-s … 7335.story

      And now, thanks to "buying education", you're going to have to bail out those kids that you already bailed out!!

      This crap is a Joke!!

      Ron Paul 2012: No bailouts for individuals OR businesses

  4. American View profile image60
    American Viewposted 5 years ago

    Why does this surprise anyone? Paul is such a clueless flake. I wonder where Paul thinks the next doctor will come?

  5. Evan G Rogers profile image81
    Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago

    Ever wonder why there are next to no black teachers anymore?

    The government stole billions from tax payers and blew it on lending money to go to college.

    Demand shot up, and so did prices (This should have been expected: you learn this the first day of Econ 101)

    Then, because the supply of educated individuals shot up, the requirements to get a job had to go up. It got to be that you had to have a Graduate's Degree to do things that people with high school diplomas were able to do a few decades ago.

    Once again, this was expected. If educated people are a dime a dozen, then it makes sense to demand a college degree for mundane work.

    This led to a greater divide between the rich and poor. The poor (mostly minority) families couldn't afford to send their kids to college - even with the loans.

    Now, people with graduate's degrees who were on their Dean's List can't even find jobs in their field and are tens of thousands in debt.

    And now Obama wants to bail them out!

    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-obama-s … 7335.story

    How can Liberals be FOR bailing out college kids, but AGAINST bailing out failed businesses?

    ---

    Ron Paul's stance is not only consistent with his entire political history, it's consistent with economic laws. It's consistent with freedom, responsibility and...

    .. and, well, it's consistent with logic!

    1. American View profile image60
      American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Ever wonder why there are next to no black teachers anymore?"

      Really, once more cite a governmnat report that shows no black people are teachers. You will not be able to because it was an uninformed statement. Without any research I know of at least 20 and I do not know many teachers. Oh by the way, this is one of the highest reguarded school districts in the Nation, Plano School District.

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You always want government statistics. Your government lies to you frequently. Deal with it.

        They changed the way CPI was calculated some 21 years ago, but then compare 1950s CPI to 2011 CPI and claim that today's CPI is lower than it was back then.

        This website is dedicated to pointing out how your government lies to you through statistics and definitions:

        http://www.shadowstats.com/

        I rely on what I see with my eyes: In my history of teaching and education, I've seen perhaps 3 black teachers. Not a single black kid in the education department at OSU, none of my meetings or conferences with Licensed teachers had a single black person...

        ... MAYBE it's JUST Ohio, but 1 state out of 50 is still too many.

        1. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "You always want government statistics. Your government lies to you frequently. Deal with it."

          Really, I find it so funny when you quote Government statistics to prove your point nowyou are saying the government lies, so does that mean you are admitting to lying? Interesting.

          I tell you to cite a government source because that is more reliable than the normal bloggers you cite who like you are just spouting off numbers with out facts.

          I thought you were such the world and country traveler. Do you think innerecities like Detroit, Harlem, Chcago have no black teachers? What planet do you live on? My kids went through one of the best school districts in the country. I know of at least 20 teachers and one principal that is black. I think you are doing a disservice to an honorable profession by implying there are no blacks. There are thousands nation wide doing a great job. I would also like to point out you contridicted yourself. First you claim there is none, then you claim you saw at least 3 with you own eyes. But that is just in you small little world. I bet there are a lot more than 3 in Cinncinati. I am just saying

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
            Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            The government does lie, but many statistics are only provided by the government because everyone thinks like you do: "da gubment don't lie!"

            I taught in 3 different inner cities for student teaching - Maybe 2 or 3...?

            If you can't understand why  "there wasn't a single black teacher" and "oh there might have been 2 or 3" are pretty much the same sentence, then it isn't worth it to talk to you.

  6. SparklingJewel profile image66
    SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago

    He is not trying to hurt anyone...his idea is that bringing back a true free market where noone is bailed out will bring appropriate equity to the system and the people involved. In that true free market system, everyone would be able to pay for their own schooling, because the economic system would make it equitable across the board, for those that chose to work hard and smart and not try to step on others to get what they want.

    you really need to stop allowing yourself to be feed by the corrupt media that takes a sound bite and defines in the most negative terms to manipulate you to feeling and thinking a certain way.

    You really need to read his books and about the difference between Austrian and Keynesian economics to understand where he is coming from. He wants to stop the manipulations of the current and corrupt economic system and the governments and corporate interests that incorrectly feed it.

    People just keep being angry about their own little corner of the world and are not getting broader perspective knowledge to put it all together and understand what exactly is going on, Ron Paul sees the whole picture, for the most part anyway about what is wrong with the economic system. He worked and built his own wealth and knows that true and genuine, honest work get a person where they are. He has hurt no one in getting to his position.

    In contrast, look at what the current other players in the system have done that adversely affects others. Ron Paul sees those things that have ill-affected others in this current economic system and how it has been built. It is not based on the Golden Rule, let alone a Gold Standard.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Not only would people be able to afford college, but you wouldn't need a bachelor's degree to work at McDonald's anymore.

      Education is in a horrendous boom, and it's going to burst.

      1. American View profile image60
        American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Really, a qualification is a Bachelors degree to work at McDonalds. I wonder how the high school part timers were able to get jobs there?

        Are you so blind with your love of Paul that you have to keep making up this garbage.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I was embellishing to make a point.

          How about this: the requirement to be a teacher in Ohio has dramatically changed over the past 15 years.

          My Japanese teacher didn't have to pass any tests or have anything beyond a Bachelor's.

          I, however, need to pass 4 tests, have a Bachelor's, have work experience, pass through both a Japanese degree AND an education degree (basically what this means is that I need a graduate's degree).

          So, there's a real life, not embellished case study for ya.

          1. American View profile image60
            American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So what is your point?  Figures you are a teacher, should have known based on all the whining. Why is it teachers want to give test to students to see if they are learning, or understand the material, yet the same teacher gets upset taking a test to prove they know the material to teach. What are you afraid of? Many jobs not only have testing to qualify for the job but have continuing testing throughout their careers, like firefighters. And they never complain. So much for making a point.

            1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
              Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              "GET OFF OF MY BRIDGE!!!"

              -- American View

      2. 0
        Wilfionposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Why not get rid of education entirely for anyone worth less than a million.  The poor could always send their children up chimneys to clean them, as in the "good old days."  Why not also open the work houses again and force the poor to work 16 hours a day in exchange for a bowl of gruel?  Victorian values are once again taking over the world, Margaret Thatcher's dream is finally being realised in every Western nation.  The rich never wanted education for the poor, for fear that they might get ideas above their station.  Long live the rich and down with the poor!

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
          Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Education was privatized throughout all of history until about 200 years ago, and then it was EXTREMELY localized through neighborhood taxes.

          In the past 100 or so years of history of mankind, it's gone from "neighborhoods" to "entire countries".

          So... that was an easy straw man to destroy...

  7. SparklingJewel profile image66
    SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago

    wouldn't it be interesting to be able just to push one button and all current economic aspects would be wiped off the system, and everyone would have to start from square one...would they do things differetly? or just try again to step on whomever was in their way by using the populations' ignorance against them.

    I would hope the popultion would get a clue and learn about the way things really work, can work in a true free market system.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      ...but... but... then I'd be responsible for my own actions...

      ... NOOOOOOOO!!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

  8. MikeNV profile image74
    MikeNVposted 5 years ago

    Paul is the ONLY person who "gets it".

    The Federal Government should NOT be in the business of loaning money to anyone!  PERIOD.

    Government interference is what screws up markets.

    Federal Student loans have such high interest rates that students become debt slaves for life and can not dig out.  There is your poverty.

    You are not OWED a College Education by the Government.  The taxpayer should not be on the hook for the defaults which will be coming down the road after 20 years due to new congressional rules.  Doctors for example can under the new rules rack up 100,000's in student loan debts.  Make minimum payments for 20 years and then walk away and stick it to the tax payer.

    What this post proves is Americans Lack critical thinking skills and feel like the Government Owes them everything.

    Ron Paul is the ONLY Politician with a Brain.  Go ahead and vote for Obama and we won't even have a country in 4 more years so Education won't matter.  There will be NO jobs so Education will mean nothing.  We are almost there now... College Graduates do not have jobs either.

  9. MikeNV profile image74
    MikeNVposted 5 years ago

    Obama has more money the Paul and he has never had a job that wasn't paid for by the Tax Payer.

    Ron Paul is a MEDICAL DOCTOR and is in his 70's and he has earned his money.

    1. Quilligrapher profile image89
      Quilligrapherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Mike.

      I appreciate your input. Whether done intentionally or out of ignorance, your statement about President Obama’s employment history is false. 

      In addition to several interim jobs in NYC while attending Columbia University, President Obama held other positions that were also not paid for by taxpayers. Among them, 11 years as an associate and partner in the Chicago law firm Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, and as a part-time lecturer on constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. (1) Finding the truth about the President's job history is not hard if you make an effort.

      Thanks for making a contribution, Mike.

      (1) http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … siness-am/

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Either way, taking a jab at Ron Paul's income was a low blow.

        1. Quilligrapher profile image89
          Quilligrapherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Good Afternoon, Evan. This is a good example of how some are blinded by their passionate belief in Mr. Paul. It caused you to misread and then to misstate what I said in the OP statement. If you read it again carefully, you will see I did not mention Mr. Pauls’s income,

          This thread was opened with a reference to Ron Paul’s net worth and it was not designed to be a “low blow”.  It reflects a perception that folks with millions of dollars find it hard to comprehend that today’s average, middle class Americans are struggling to survive. In addition, it refers to less-fortunate Americans discovering that our society is preventing them from achieving a better life and it is creating impediments that discourage them from trying. It expresses, to large degree, why our young people are loosing hope in the future.

          Higher education is, and has always been, an essential ingredient for widespread self-improvement and it should not be limited to those with wealthy parents. The federal student loan program provides a helping hand to many that need it. For some it is the only chance they have to rise out from the depths of poverty. Ron Paul’s campaign promise to end the federal student loan program is a desperate attempt to buy the support of the wealthiest segment of our society, those who live in fear of an educated and informed electorate.

          Thanks, Evan for re-reading the OP  statement.

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
            Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ROFL!!

            #All Apologies!!!!# You merely mentioned his "NET WORTH"

    2. Hollie Thomas profile image60
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      However, he was never talented enough to write a book that people actually wanted to read, netting him millions.

      1. kerryg profile image86
        kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Two of them, even.

        1. Mighty Mom profile image88
          Mighty Momposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, but how good could his books be?
          I haven't seen them hit the Dollar Store (like a certain former Veep candidate's).
          lol lol

          1. American View profile image60
            American Viewposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL smile

      2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Are you talking about Ron Paul or Obama?

        Because Ron Paul has numerous books out, and I know many people (myself included) who have read them all.

        And many of his books were NYT bestsellers
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolu … _Manifesto

  10. DonDWest profile image89
    DonDWestposted 5 years ago

    I agree with Ron Paul's policy in this area. Too many people view the college as a saintly institution. The fact of the matter is colleges ARE BUSINESSES and capable of greed just like anyone else. If Obama offers every student a $1000 loan; colleges will rise tuition by $1000. If Obama offers everyone a $5000 loan; then colleges will raise tuition by $5000. If Obama offers everyone $10,000; then colleges will raise tuition by $10,000. You get the picture. . .

    Now if student loans were to cease, would everyone stop attending college? Not likely; colleges would still have to stay in business. In order to stay in business they would have to introduce affordable/competitive tuition. Colleges may have to seriously look at what professors are actually doing their damn job! If anything, college should be cheaper due to technological advances. The only reason why college is so expensive is because colleges know they can rely on easy government money.

    Monetary inflation also isn't the only concern; there's also the brutal qualification inflation Evan spoke about earlier. This qualification inflation hurts the poor because it prevents them from moving up the economic ladder off their own merit. When a job that honestly requires no more than an 8th grade education 20 years ago is suddenly asking for a Master's degree due to inflation; what chance does a recent immigrant have in this country? Sorry, this bubble needs to burst. It's creating a caste system.

    Evan is also correct that the quality of education is becoming suspect when everyone is getting a college degree. College has become nothing more than a rather expensive extention of High School. That's four years less of earned income during a lifetime and a hefty loan to get what essentially is just another version of High School.

    Here is an interesting video explaining Ron Paul's reasoning behind such decisions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llrmq8q3E24

    Student loans don't make college more affordable to the poor. This poor girl's parents are High School drop outs; and she has to live with them; perhaps for life, because she has 200K in student loans. So much for college lifting people out of poverty, when the college graduate must depend on her High School dropout parents because she's forking away 90% of her income in loans and taxes. She's a slave, I would rather be starving and poor than her. I would rather be ANYONE but her (except perhaps Gaddafi on the day he was brutally and savagely beaten).

    For the record, I found a way to evade this bubble by using a little bit of creative thinking. I long suspected (despite not having a college degree) that I'm smarter than many college graduates. So in order to get around the barrier of employers demanding college in the event I would need a job; I saved up $2000 and used the proceeds to take a neural psych. exam from a respected private institution. The neural psych. exam puts me in the 98th world percent tile for English and the 92nd percent tile in Math. The test has all the fancy scientist titles and references. I send a copy to any employer who asks for college. $2000 was rather expensive for just two weeks of tests, but it's still much cheaper and less time consuming than college.

    I will disagree with Evan that the students shouldn't be bailed out. Sometimes a little forgiveness and tolerance can help a president more than any harsh lessons. Nobody deserves to be a slave for life just because they made a stupid decision at 18 years old that was heavily influenced by their parents and the government. Punishing these people with slavery for life over something that is little of their fault is intolerant. These students need to be freed from the shackles of slavery so they can later on participate in the economy and become productive members of society. It's a question of human rights. In the long run it may help the economy to bail out these students, despite carrying a heavy initial cost. If run Paul would cut the education student loan scam, while simultaneously granting complete pardon to those already victims to it, this would effectively allow everyone to start fresh. It would also help to alleviate any misconceptions people have towards the policy. Being a merciful president will win favours.

    Credit to Ron Paul for having the courage to speak out on an issue others don’t dare touch. . .

    1. kerryg profile image86
      kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree about qualification inflation, but also think that education is important enough to the general welfare of American society (and the American republic itself - no democratically based system can survive without an educated populace) that it should continue to be subsidized to some degree. I think the system some European countries have, where higher education is free or very low cost for students who meet certain merit-based qualifications, might solve both the problem of people who really shouldn't be pursuing higher education pursuing higher education because they think they have to, and the problem of ensuring that poor but deserving students have access to the opportunities they need to advance themselves without taking on crippling levels of debt or being forced to divide their attentions between work and school in a way that is detrimental to their academic success.

      I also agree with you that some sort of relief of student loan debt is in order. The last generation or two has been told practically from infancy that they HAVE to attend college and now they are being punished with crippling debt for doing exactly what they were told to do. I don't support forgiving student loans entirely, but you have to admit that it would do far, far more to jump-start the economy than the trillions of dollars we've given away to the banks over the last few years. We need to stop treating corporations like they're "too big to fail" and start treating the American people like they're "too big to fail." tongue

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I'm skeptical to think that mandatory education has anything to do with a free society.

        Education costs money, and -- as evil as it is to say this -- it might not be the best of investments for everyone.

        Making education cheaper simply means that we're putting resources where they don't best serve society.

        1. kerryg profile image86
          kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "I'm skeptical to think that mandatory education has anything to do with a free society."

          Because societies full of illiterates are such models of the democratic system? Or, to put it in terms you might understand better, how can people be expected to support a government based on constitutional principles when they can't even read the thing to see what it says? The Catholic Church spent hundreds of years burning people at the stake for translating the Bible into vernacular tongues for a reason - if you can control people's access to knowledge - by making education accessible only to the wealthy, for example - you can control the people.

          "Education costs money, and -- as evil as it is to say this -- it might not be the best of investments for everyone. "

          Not evil, realistic. There are a lot of people in the world who are not academically inclined and they should be able to get a decent paying job without forcing themselves through higher education that they're not suited for.

          I think education should be mandatory through the 8th grade. (Though as a former homeschooler I'm obviously fairly flexible about exactly what form that education should take. Free public education needs to be an option for everyone, but there should be other choices too.) Beyond the 8th grade I'd start to divide kids into academic and vocational tracks.

          "Making education cheaper simply means that we're putting resources where they don't best serve society."

          Making basic education - the three Rs, a general knowledge of history, civics, and science, and a few other fundamental topics - cheaper (preferably completely free) ALWAYS serves the best interests of society.

          As for higher education, that's why I proposed a merit-based system for students to qualify for subsidized university tuition. The vocational track is generally better served by internships and apprenticeships than university degrees.

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
            Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Mandated anything is the opposite of free.

            Don't get me wrong, I like education. But "Freedom" and "Required" are opposites.

            1. kerryg profile image86
              kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think this is the rare exception that proves the rule. You're in education, aren't you? I don't know what magical school districts you've served in, but in my experience a substantial percentage of parents don't give a shit about their kids' education and would let them stay home and watch tv all day if that was an option.

              I know you think the government has lost sight of its founding principles now, but just watch how fast it will give up any semblance of democratic republic once it has an illiterate populace at its mercy.

              1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I"ll give you a hint about kids whose parents who don't give a s**t about their kids' education.

                They ruin education for the kids whose parents DO want them to learn.

                I saw it on a daily basis while student teaching and I continue to see it on a daily basis while substitute teaching.

                1. kerryg profile image86
                  kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Believe me, I know that all too well! But parents who do care about their kids' education are much more likely to do something to make the situation better (such as homeschool, like my parents did, or enroll their kids in a private school, which they considered doing, or even simply afterschool, which I do with my own daughter), whereas kids whose parents don't care would end up even worse off without some minimal requirement for school attendance. As I've hopefully made clear, I don't think just giving up on these kids and letting them grow up into illiterate, ignorant bums without a fight is in the best interests of anybody.

                  1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                    Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Many families would LOVE to send their kids to private schools, but they can't afford to pay for their education tax AND the tuition.

                    Governments really want your kid going to THEIR schools.

      2. DonDWest profile image89
        DonDWestposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        kerryg, I'm sure arrangements could always be made in terms of scholarships for gifted poor students to attend college. Although, much like Evan, I'm sceptical a traditional brick and mortar college is the solution to all our democratic woes.

        Most of the terrible mistakes done the past decade were done by some of the most "educated" members of society. Many people on the fringes with less education could easily see the mismanagement. It may be past time we look at titles and degrees; and start to evaluate people based on what they have done/said rather than their degrees.

        One thing I noticed that college has “taught” is to turn people away from critical thinking and to always believe “the experts.” This overlooks that the “experts” are human and may be lying. If people had a quality education, they would have been able to detect the lies and draw their own conclusions based off followed up research. This has created an ignorant voting citizen.

        I don't believe heavy financing of post-secondary education is the key to getting ahead. A lot of the value inserted into college is emotional rather than practical. I could argue in many ways the classes now hamper development. There’s a lot of indoctrination going on that frankly, it’s unbelievable how much college has changed the past 10 years.

        I'll agree with Evan we need to give the kids more options other than "just go to college." I can't help but feel we would be better off just handing the kids this money to start their own micro-business rather than go to college, but in order for this to work High School needs to be seriously reformed.

        1. kerryg profile image86
          kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          "Most of the terrible mistakes done the past decade were done by some of the most "educated" members of society. Many people on the fringes with less education could easily see the mismanagement. "

          Hmm, I disagree that education was the cause of the mismanagement. I know plenty of seriously overeducated people (like, multiple advanced degrees overeducated) who were hopping up and down on the sidelines tearing out their hair as well.

          The real difference, imho, is degree of cronyism. Ordinary Americans, whether high school dropouts or three time PhDs, could easily see the idiocy of TARP (to name one example), while its architects in the Bush administration and the Obama campaign were blinded by being former employees of (or friends of employees of) the banks that got the bailouts. Not to mention by the millions of dollars in campaign contributions the big banks shell out to buy themselves pet politicians. tongue

          Same with the Iraq War. The neocons in the Bush administration created an echo chamber for themselves, consisting almost entirely of oilmen, defense contractors, and others with major financial incentive to push for war. Unfortunately in that case they also managed to do the same in the US media, so it took people longer to catch on to the fact that we'd made a colossal mistake, but even so there was a substantial minority of the population that opposed the war from the start, including thousands upon thousands of those indoctrinated college students you deride. My own campus had anti-war demonstrations practically every day in the weeks and months leading up to the war.

          1. ediggity profile image59
            ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Good, I don't want my tax dollars spent on someone else's education.  Why does everyone think they are entitled?  neutral

            1. wyo barney profile image60
              wyo barneyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              So what does the taxes YOU pay, entitle YOU to?

              1. ediggity profile image59
                ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Whatever the government tells me they do.  smile

                1. wyo barney profile image60
                  wyo barneyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So then you have the same entitlement to an education as someone else, what is the problem with that?

                  1. ediggity profile image59
                    ediggityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    The problem is that I didn't take a loan out on the tax payers dime for an art degree, or some other degree that would have little contribution to the advancement, development, or current progress of our society.  smile

              2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Paying taxes entitles you to nothing.

                Taxes are theft - You're lucky if you benefit from the money taken from you.

                Here's an example using Rick Perry:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhkiL_-NBk

                1. wyo barney profile image60
                  wyo barneyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  What I feel taxes entitles me to: A reasonable assurance that the products, food, medicine, and services I purchase are safe and conform to a minimal standard. I can travel from state to state unimpeded, and that I have the same "rights" in each. That I have the opportunity to visit and enjoy a national park. That I have a reasonable assurance that I will survive work and make it home each day. (work place safety).That I can expect to be treated fairly by buisnesses I choose to deal with. There are many more entitlements I could list. Why am I entitled ? Because I do pay taxes. I personaly do not agree with everything MY taxes are spent on, but all in all I think i'm much better off for paying them. My biggest gripe is if big corporations, the rich, or anyone for that matter, wants to live, work, or take advantage of being a citizen in or of this country, they should be willing to pay their fair share for that PRIVILAGE. If not, leave,find some place more to your liking.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Props to you for putting Peter Schiff up.

      If anyone out there likes what they heard, check out "How an economy grows and why it doesn't" -- online for free in .pdf form. It was created by his father.

      Also, google "peter schiff was right"

  11. 0
    Wilfionposted 5 years ago

    The rich have become even richer since the beginning of the economic disaster the Western world is experiencing.  And the people who are always expected to pay for the mess of the rich are the poor.  It shall always be the case, and no matter how many people take to the streets or join the Occupy movement, it will never change.  The rich are rich because they use the poor as steps on a ladder, and the huddled masses will never have power.  To therefore remove the chance of a higher education for all is just another indication of the power the rich have, and the lack of consideration they have for anyone not as rich as themselves.  And there will always be those poorer people who defend the right of the rich to do as they please, because they know their place and don't know how to think in any other way.

  12. yellowstone8750 profile image60
    yellowstone8750posted 5 years ago

    Should be free like Europe anyway, do it like Germany...by testing.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hahhahahahhahaha!!

      Do you have ANY idea how much testing our students go through today?

      Things have changed, buddy.

      Examples of the high school i teach at:

      The OGT, SAT, ACT... here's a list of more!

      http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates … ent=108250

  13. SparklingJewel profile image66
    SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago

    Ron Pauls response to the student loan thing


    “Anytime someone dares to seriously address the major problems posed to us by a government program, many in the news media accuse that person of wanting to hurt citizens in a reckless manner,” Paul said Friday in an editorial for USA Today. “The demagoguery makes solving our problems even harder.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/10 … z1cEU4MVcc

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67058.html

    read the rest and look for additional articles.....finally someone reiterated everything he said about it (mostly) and not just the sound bite that erks people

  14. KBEvolve profile image83
    KBEvolveposted 5 years ago

    Student loans are a trap, and education at that level has been getting worst even as the cost of college skyrockets. So there is definitely room there for reform. I just think the problem lies more on the tuition rate side of things.

    A undergrad education just isn't worth the cost anymore in some disciplines.

 
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