"On its webpage, the group claims that "the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation." While the words are nice, their actions speak volumes. They blatantly ignore the position statement and deny LGBT people services unless they renounce their sexuality, end same-sex relationships, or, in some cases, attend services "open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline." In other words, if you're gay or lesbian, you don't qualify.
The organization also has a record of actively lobbying governments worldwide for anti-gay policies - including an attempt to make consensual gay sex illegal. (Yes, you're paying lobbyists with those donations.)"
There ya go.
If you read the article you'd know why.
But I'll bite anyway. The Salvation Army along with many other "Christian" charities is on record as being anti-gay marriage and holds the belief that gays should maintain celibacy as a lifestyle rather than offend God.
Some Gays dislike the idea of giving to a charity that finds their relationships to be sinful and abhorrent.
So boycott a charitable organization who would be able to help a lot of people because they think differently than they do? How very caring they are.
Which is essentially what you were waiting for a chance to say when you posted the question. Congratulations and Merry Christmas.
If you had a different response than that you would have received a different response. You basically said they aren't getting what they want so we will throw a fit. I say throw a fit and I'll give double to the salvation army this year.
Look, I'm going to be completely honest here. I do and will continue to give money to the SA because it offers programs in my area that there are no other organizations provide.
However, I view it and much of the charity work I do for Christian organizations as a necessary evil. To help people, they are the ones I have to deal with. On an actual volunteer level, most of the people I deal with are liberal Christians or atheists. (As an aside, I always thought that was funny that fundies are too busy talking to actually do any work)
In short, the views of the organization are not the views of the people that are actually making the difference.
Now, on the flipside... would you give money to a Gay organization that was providing food to the hungry... or an anti-firearm organization that was providing Christmas gifts? How about Satanists that were running a spay/neuter program?
Yes, I would give money to a gay organization that was helping the needy, are there any? No, I wouldn't give money to a satanist organization claiming to help animals, I wouldn't believe they cared.
GLBT groups do work on the local level (my college group did food drives and toy drives)Search for local groups in your area.
Now, using your same logic try a little empathy. Put yourself, for just a moment, in the shoes of a gay man (or lesbian if it's easier for you). Would you believe that a charitable organization cared about you if it was essentially calling you and the person that you loved an abomination? How about an organization that said that regardless of your feelings for your wife, you should never be intimate with her or for that matter married to her.
It just seems odd that an organization that is supposed to be about love and respect has a public stance that reflects intolerance.
How about the intolerance of the GLBT community? I have never had a salvation Army bell ringer say anything to me about homosexuals, has it happened to you?
*smiles* Nice attempt at diversion but you didn't answer my question. How would you feel about giving money to an organization that said you and your wife shouldn't be married and aren't allowed to be intimate? Would you feel they were caring?
Its not diversion, I have never had a Salvation Army employee say anything like that to me. I have never heard them speak about homosexuals at all. That seems like an answer to me.
No it doesn't and you know it. You are shying from the question. The official stance of the salvation army is that Gays should live a celibate life and that the Bible does not support same-sex marriage. Check the website. You are refusing to be empathetic because the emotional reaction to being in the same situation would show you to be a hypocrite.
I don't care what the official stance is, calling for a boycott of a charitable organization that helps thousands and thousands because you disagree with their views on your lifestyle is childish. The good the Salvation Army does for different kinds of people beats hands-down what the GLBT community does. In fact I have not seen any GLBT organization ever helping anyone but themselves.
Still not answering the question. And if you don't see the organization I pulled up for you from google in less than 15 seconds, then I cannot be held responsible for your abject refusal to see anything other than your limited tunnel vision can recognize.
Including, the obvious fact you are missing, which is THIS member of the LGBT community actively does much good. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in MY little podunk community let alone the world at large.
Do you have any idea what most of those groups were? I doubt it.
Yes I do, do you? Wanna match me one for one on descriptions? Still avoiding the question btw. I'm not gonna let that one go.
Sure, as soon as you tell me how you would feel about giving money to a charity that said your marriage was not valid and you shouldn't sleep with your wife.
No it wasn't and it isn't likely to be.
Moral superiority means absolutely nothing if you lack the ability to empathize and claiming offense on charitable grounds when you obviously have no ability to feel what another person is feeling rings quite hollow.
Enjoy your ire and righteous indignation. All I see is hypocracy and self-serving "look how right I am"
Futhermore, "look! A diversion!" only works on those of limited intelligence. It sucks as a debate tactic with those who can actually stay on track.
So I guess you aren't going to tell me what those groups were? I didn't think so. You should study up on Houston a little more.
Sure, as soon as you answer my question I'll go ahead and show you up on that point too.
How dare you say such a terrible thing,. throughout history LGBT people have been persecuted, murdered and killed, because of widespread biases. You stand there and say that we dont help anyone but ourselvs how wrong you are, you would not know half of what homosexuality is and means today if we did spread awareness because we aim at the heterosexual community to promote understanding instead of intolerance, we also give money raised by prides to the HIV trusts and not everyone who has HIV is gay as I am sure you will know. We also provie literature, sexual education and allsorts of other things not just to the homosexual community!!!
Perhaps they would prefer to ignore, rather than accept.
You do realize that the bell ringers are temporary employees hired from the general population... They are there to collect a paycheck and likely don't have any idea what the SA's viewpoints on ANYTHING are. Statistically, 10 percent of them are likely gay themselves. The screening process isn't exactly in-depth.
For some reason, this made me chuckle
Is the Salvation Army the only organization that provides help to the needy?
Good thing we have a choice.
*cough* helping lot of people ? Does that include spending on pedophile priests salary and supporting to right political parties ? Since when church and charities started doing something constructive without asking anything in return.
Charitable Organizations have to compete for money just like everyone else.
I can choose to give my money to the Red Cross, St. Jude's, The Shriners, or any other.
If one chooses to be mean to LBGTQ, then I'll give my money to one with a slightly more open mind.
The free-market works.
I did a search of local gay charitable organizations and found they give money to gay related causes.
You are in Texas, yes?
Try this: http://www.ersicss.org/index.php?option … p;Itemid=4
They donate to gay related causes (as the salvation army also donates to christian related issues) but they also do soup kitchen, women's health, and animal charity fundraising as well.
Maybe its my poor eyesight but I couldn't read a thing on that site, too dark.
Oh, here let me make it easier for you...
"Some of the organizations/causes we have raised money for are: The Montrose Clinic, The Bering/Omega Foundation, The Colt 45’s, The Garden Party, Miss Camp America, The Assistance Fund, Pet Patrol, Montrose Clinic Women’s Health Initiative, MCCR, GLOBO, The Pride Committee, The Montrose Activity Center, The Houston GLBT Community Center, NLA, PWA Coalition, Community Awareness for Transgender Shelter, Casa de Esperanza, The Names Project, Unhinged Productions, Fairy Godmothers, Stone Soup Food Pantry, PWA Holiday Charities, PAWS, Wishful Thinking Fund, AIDS Foundation Houston, Camp Hope, H.A.T.C.H., AssistHers, as well as many other worthwhile causes."
They donate money to anti gay rights groups, openly. Why would anyone donate to a group that will use that money against you? Just because you haven;t been keeping track of how they spend their money doesn't mean the rest of us are just making this stuff up. It's public record.
I personally don't donate to them because they evicted my elderly neighbor, who had terminal cancer, to sell the house she had been renting for decades for a quick profit.
I would never donate to them after referring a 20 year old man to them for emergency accommodation during a freezing month of January some years ago. Unfortunately, the young man was not a prolific criminal, drug user or alcoholic, so the SA could not claim from the supporting people pot of money available from the government. Despite having a spare bed in the hostel, it was deemed that a young person with more problems would have been more profitable, so the young man I referred was turned away. Seven days later he was dead.
It's an imperfect organization to say the least. It is however a well represented organization, especially in rural areas where such organizations are limited. There is a lot of frustration on the lower levels where "real life" meets unrealistic operating expectations from the administrative guys.
My final conclusion is that the SA ends up doing a fair amount of good, but it is largely by accident... and by those in the trenches largely ignoring what the main offices say.
I agree with what you say Melissa. The people on the ground did not make that decision, and I never stopped referring. The problems with the SA were structural, at some level where they (the decision makers) did not work with people, just budgets. Those above and beyond (the decision makers) were not social workers, volunteers or probation officers. They were responsible for budgets! That's it! But I no longer give to that charity (not a reflection on the workers) I give, as much as I can afford, to charities that are engaged in the real world, as it is.
I just reread what I wrote and I see how it sounded. I agree completely with you and what happened was horrible, but unfortunately not surprising. Most of my money goes to my church, that has it's own program that is well-run but exceedingly small. I still guide my kids (especially the littlest one) towards the red buckets because it seems like the most obvious example of giving available to me. (The kids aren't allowed to attend actual church services until they are old enough to have a firm grip of self)
I do volunteer at the SA events pretty often, because they are chronically low on actual workers (once again, I wonder where all those charitable fundies are) I wish my area had more secular charities as they tend to be more well run.
It sounded fine, it sounded honest. The charities are as effective as their workers and their objectives, be that secular or religious. You and I are a fine example of that, are objectives would be the same. To help, whenever we can, however we can. I would definitely volunteer at a religious event if I believed it would help people who need help, and I have no doubt that you would volunteer at a non-religious event to help however you could. Our objectives are the same. Whoever we are, we just need to question the motivations of the charity, religious or otherwise.
Awww Hollie, that is why you are my wife-in-waiting! I could push the old man out the window if your visas are in order.
I will get them in order. We are charitable human beings, hubby can have the spare room!
You will find as in every organisation members of the Salvos that have engaged in homosexuality and peodophile behaviour. They need to be careful not unlike the Catholic Church to be entirely hypocritical
Has anyone considered United Way as an alternative? Remember, giving is something you want to do, not something you are forced to do.
I'm glad I was able to offer a place where love could bloom.
People who agree with homophobia are certainly welcome to donate to those organizations that have clearly made a stance against gays and lesbians.
There are plenty of other social service agencies that do not have a belief that I, as a lesbian, am less than human and do not deserve the same rights as anyone else.
The Salvation Army performs a valuable service to the people they serve, so you should support them if you agree with their stance on homosexuality, and anything else for that matter.
But, surely you can see that it would be completely ridiculous for someone like me to support them.
I agree completely with your feelings, but for some of us it's the best of the choices if we want to help. Damn, I feel like a sell-out now
Mind you if us LGBT were to deny charity and services to the salvation army I am sure they would boycott us to justify there actions. It works both ways :-)
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