I am so proud of us as a nation. So proud of him as a man who came when we needed him most! Please, just good vibes here! USA! USA! USA!
Save your pride. Obama will do as Obama is told to do, just like all the others have done.
Vibes of reality.
Maybe. But Obama is a relative newcomer to Washington (i.e. noone expecting favors from him) and, more importantly, got the vast majority of his campaign money via "microdonors" (about 3 million citizens!). So he should not be nearly as beholden to traditional commercial interests.
If he doesn't deliver on the change he has promised, the primary source of campaign money will vanish...
Just a quick note, while he maybe a "new commer" he recieved over twice as much from Pharmacutical Companies last year than McCain who I guess would be an "old timer" Don't base judgement on favors when we have no idea who all he owes. Again I pray that the right decision was made, but we have 4 years no matter what, American's don't have it in us to go so far as to boot a President.
Donations from 3 million people itself is really a great achievement! That is why Mr.Obama promises to "spread wealth". All who donated to his electioneering are really fit for spreading the wealth! Instead of spreading the wealth, which was accumulated by a few hardworking intelligent people, he may try to spread intelligence and spread flair for accumulating wealth through hard work. If not, he is destined to fail himself and fail his nation... like Russia!
Not only am I PROUD to be and American but I am also proud that for the first time in along time that the newly elected President and Vice-President are both friendly to the GLBT Community. Hopefully now not only will President Obama set this country straight financially but will assist the GLBT Community in gaining some ground where need be.
I am proud to be an American and it seems he will do good, but appearances can be deceiving. Let us then see if he is a deceiver or the kind of person he says he is.
Let us, the sovereign American People to whom our rights rightfully belong see what this man actually brings in the name of change.
I am a New Zealander and I am so proud of you America !!!! for voting for change and showing the courage to trust Obama.
I have never felt hostile toward the U.S.A, and love so many things that would fill pages and pages, but now I feel
new hope and it restores my faith in humanity.
We have had almost all day Television coverage of the U.S.A Elections from trivial fun segments building to more
intense news ( like as the votes became final for different states etc) C.N.N I believe was covering that part.
Our home TV Channels featured things like "Learn the Game of Gridiron"....( darn that had always been my excuse
too )....guess I might as well know why I cheer for the "Steelers"...now hehe
Cooking lessons on 'Apple Pie " and "Pumpkin Pie" yep food works for me , lol
My all time favourite is Shoo Fly Pie and I made that and showed off to my Kiwi Kids
At one of our local University's the Professor who teaches 'American Culture Studies' was interesting to listen too and so many other speakers....
....even got to hear how Americans living here celebrated ( B-B-Q somewhere ) I know! the sauce would have been 'the best' sadly I had to work or I would have offered to wash up ,lol....
So Congratulations America
Have an Awesome week !
P.S...Do my smiley thingys show up here?
I got up at midnight est just in time to catch the two speeches, one the loser, one the winner, and was proud of both these guys for rising to a higher ground - not just for us in USA but for all good people all over the world. I'm thrilled by that fact, that the entire globe was involved in this election. It feels like a transformation happening, one pointing to a bright new era of global cooperation. Everyone is cheering this election outcome. I pray that those who feel they lost will soon discover that they have won - won something more significant than the power of another four years running the show. Their show wasn't working, and deep down they knew it. Now they are free to come aboard the new train that truly takes us into the 21st century.
Amen! But I'm not expecting miracles. It'll take a long time to get out of the deep hole we're in.
I couldn't agree with you more, as it gave me goose bumps
Amen! McCain was a gracious loser, and Obama's speech was one of the greatest in my memory.
Am very happy that we have elected Obama. I think he is a transformational figure and as such has already done something to heal the divisiveness we find among ourselves in America, and our standing in the world. Mainly what I feel is relief.
Exactly. But at least we have a President who will look his detractors in the eye while trying to turn it around. He will also go to work Day 1 and not make the same mistake Clinton did.
Congratulations from Canada. Obama's ideas are definitely liked around the world. I posted this in my forum early yesterday afternoon before the results were out.
On January 20, 2009, we will have, contrary to what we've endured for the past eight years, a president who will strive to improve conditions for all Americans, including the middle class. If he fails to achieve his domestic and foreign relations goals, it won't be because he didn't try. President-elect Obama will need the help and support of every American to restore the United States to its former high standing in the world community. With our help he will lead us to properity -- and to peace. Butl, he can't do it alone.
Just thought you'd like to know this Misha. While I was waiting for Obama's acceptance speech to air on CBC the other night the CBC Washington correspondent had his cameraman pan the crowd that was starting to grow outside the Whitehouse gates. The early crowd sounded angry. They were yelling 'Out with Bush'. The CBC Washington correspondent was clearly concerned. His cameraman stopped panning and focused on a group that was clearly holding up a red flag with a yellow hammer and sickle in the top corner of the flag. The CBC Washington correspondent said part of the group seemed to be directed by some people with whistles. This is exactly what I warned about in a couple of threads started by atheists in the religion forum. As the crowd sent text messages to their friends with their cell phones the crowd grew much larger and it turned into a happy, joyous night. But it certainly looks like the attempt was made.
We have 4 years to determine if the right decision was made. I pray for the best.
It feels like a giant puss-filled cyst has popped. The terrible, painful pressure (and embarrassment) of the last 8 years is released at long last. Now the healing can begin.
I'm so heartened to read of the reaction from other countries to our good news. Thank you, world, for bearing with us in our arrogance and our ignorance.
Yes, it's true that Obama and his administration have a tough road ahead. But with overwhelming support of the American people, big changes are possible. I never understood why Bush didn't ask citizens for any sacrifices during the Iraq war (putting those retarded "Support Our Troops ribbon stickers on cars hardly counts). We are all in this together. I sortof expect our new president to challenge us to band together and do something -- anything -- out of the usual to pull the country out of this morass. I actually feel PATRIOTIC again!
Hopefully the Republican Party (GOP) can have the courage to perform surgery on itself and finally rid itself of the tumor that is the neoconservative, fascist, political movement.
I am so glad Obama won this. This man could actually do some good. I actually think the country is in good hands for now.
I voted for him, and I am glad he is in office. Hopefully he will repeal the Patriot Act, stop these illegal warrantless wiretaps, restore Habeus Corpus rights to terrorists, and put America back on course.
Expect some major changes around the time of the second coming......
Hi Ben ,can you explain to me (briefly ) the Patriot Act ,and what is Habeus Corpus?. Thanks
I think it's so cute how people like you cannot see what guys like Karl Rove, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were doing.
Not to get under your skin or anything, but it was conservative family value christians who were against abortion and homosexuality that were the loudest and most fervent supporters of Hitler and his Third Reich.
When a large portion of Christians are one issue voters, all that has to be done is for a truly evil person to come in and make sure he has that one issue down pat and he can grab power easily if there are enough of those one issue voters to swing things his way. That is because one issue voters have a hard time imagining how someone like Hitler can be against abortion and still be so morally corrupt (they incorrectly assume "proper" moral bearing on things like abortion and homosexuality magically transfer to all the other issues and that someone like Hitler couldn't possibly be a moral despot).
Hitler was against abortion by the way and homosexuality (despite the oft repeated lies of Christians who don't like the facts of history). I would put Rove, Cheney, and Rumsfeld squarely in the category of a new and improved fascism that takes into account the fact that the American people compared to other 1st world countries, are armed to the teeth. It isn't a simple job to impose this new form of fascism on the American People and they came close to completing that goal.
Perhaps I mistakenly identify you with other Christians who have no problem with the so called "neo-conservative" movement. If I do then I am indeed sorry, but I usually tend to think of most Christians as being people who will hop on board any movement (even a fascist one) as long as "family values" are promoted, and abortion and homosexuality are "combated".
Perhaps I am wrong about you, but I do not see what Rove, Rumsfeld, and Cheney had going to be a laughing matter at all. We came dangerously close to fascism and authoritarianism. Obama is a swing back towards the center, and I am not a cynic. Cynicism kills the emotions.
I am with you there Zarm, but the chances of the changes you are talking about actually happening?
Sorry to say, I am oooold now. I have lived through numerous elections in 4 different countries. Every single new electee was ushered in on the promise of "change." Including the first woman Prime Minister of the UK. Oh what a fuss was made over that
Have I seen any changes?
I would LOVE to stand corrected, but......
I think we will see in the next four years just what type of change this man will bring....
I am not a cynic, I am a skeptic. BIG DIFFERENCE.
He says he will bring change, I do think it is likely given the circumstances. It just remains to be seen how effective this "change" will be. We need change, we don't need fascist idiots like Palin with their finger next to the red button when guys like John McCain have a heart attack and die.
O.K. Every other president ever elected has promised change, the only one to actually do so was the first. Yet you think somehow its going to be different this time. What can he actually change? We are so naive, atleast the chinese know where they stand, we don't even have that.
My wife also finds me cute. Fortunately she is the only one who will reap the benefit of such cogent recognition.:
The ruling symbol of fascism is the "fasces".
Would you care to guess where you will find such an official symbol?
If you said within the floor chamber of the House of Representatives of the United States, you get the prize of the day for being a non-idiot regarding politics in the USA. Fascism is alive and well on a daily basis.
With that said, politically speaking, you are nowhere close to having me pegged.
Actually I would challenge you on your understanding of politics.
For example, Bush has been the homosexuals best friend. He has done more to promote Homosexuals than any other president, especially in cultures that are officially hostile to such behavior............................The kicker is that Bush publically informed everyone what would happen legally regarding Marriage and Civil Unions. Not a word was said by the Pro Family groups. Collusion??????
Democrats & Republicans - nothing more than both sides of the same political coin. The election of Obama simply means that the coin has been flipped by the powers that be........and I'm not referring to "We the people."
I sincerely wonder if you will actually be happy at all by the end of Obama's term. Something tells me that there might be many joyous to have the Patriot Act and any Habeus Corpus still in place.
I'm not necessarily trying to peg you Ben, I was trying to point some crucial things out to you. If you really think that Democrats and Republicans are just two sides to the same coin then I would say you are probably and independent. It matters not, I don't need to peg you.
Independents are just the edges of the same political coin. I'm not an independent either.
I am completely independent, though.
Well then you are not an independent. So I was wrong (no big deal), but do you see anything I was trying to point out to you as part of the problem?
Also, I never said that Bush has been the enemy of homosexuals and I would love it if you could quote me saying that. Also, please do show me in concrete terms where Bush has (on his voting record and in his policy) been the "friend" of homosexuals, rather than simply talking out of both sides of his mouth in order to appease everyone as he grabbed more power in other areas with things like The Patriot Act.
What I did imply is that his administration has created the perfect scenario for someone who is a true fascist or a true dictator to step in the gap and screw the American people over. He himself has violated the law many many times. He is not left or right wing, he is HIS wing. That is Bush and his administration in a nutshell. He did things his own way and was never truly held accountable for it, a sort of in-between dictator who agrees to step down.
He has not been the enemy or the friend of the homosexuals, he hasn't passed law against them but then again he hasn't stopped laws from being passed against them in several states. Being a dictator in that sense isn't something that he is interested in, and it fits well with his overall stance on other things which indicate that as far as civil rights are concerned he doesn't really give a shit one way or the other. He can step up and do things that are unconstitutional and just sit back and watch the base that got him elected take away civil rights from people who are homosexual without ever being their friends or enemy.
I would say that I think that his administration is very goal oriented, they wanted power and used any means necessary to get as much power as they possibly could. This election would have been perfect for a dictator who who wanted to run on a family values platform much akin to Hitler (traditional values family platform and appealing to popular bigotry). Other than Sarah Palin that didn't really manifest so I am thankful that McCain didn't get elected. She doesn't have the intelligence to do what Hitler did anyway, that has been demonstrated many many times in the various interviews where she screwed up.
Of course people are saying that Obama was appealing to populist bigotry and was using fear mongering and trying to divide us against each other, but he never once used any core tactic other than trying to paint McCain as 4 more years of Bush. That isn't bigotry, that is fear of more of the same. So yes he did play on fear, but he wasn't playing on it the same way that other people did (like Bush). He was playing on real fear grounded in a concrete reality that everyone could relate to and almost everyone agreed on anyway before Obama ever came around (that Bush has been bad for this country). This wasn't a boogey man that had been invented to scare people, this was an actuality that had been going on for eight years. Perhaps he might have been wrong, perhaps McCain and Palin wouldn't have been more of the same, in the end though he used a fear that people already had rather than creating a new one out of thin air (like McCain and Palin did with their accusations of socialism), and that is why people feel that he can actually elicit some change for the better. Whether he does or not remains to be seen, and I think it needs to be pointed out that people don't have to be complicit with the two party system we currently have where independents get marginalized and reduced to a swing vote than can be catered to and manipulated.
Most people don't seem to get the fact that we can get outside the box if we all agree that we need to. We can do it anytime from the ground up, people just have to believe that it is possible and be willing to sacrifice and do what it takes to get there. I have seen nothing but cynicism from people all around this election, cynicism is exactly the end goal of any form of dictatorship, a bunch of people mumbling how things can never change and going to their jobs and settling for the depolitization they think to be their consigned Fate. At least Obama tried to do something to get people to hope in change, if he doesn't work out then lets get rid of his administration. That's the way I view it, and it surprises me how many people truly live in fear and cynically respond that such a thing is impossible and then claim they have the answer in the same breadth or that there is no answer in another. Cynicism kills answers, only skepticism allows answers. Cynicism kills intellectual discourse and promotes an "Us vs. Them" attitude and only feeds the incipient fascism that has seeped into our country. With that said I am skeptical of Obama, but I will give him a fair chance to try his hand at things. If he screws up, then he screws up and hopefully people have the sense to fix things and take matters into their own hands by forcefully bringing about a change in administration from the ground up rather then letting themselves be reduced yet again to people that beg pretty please while another Imperial Presidency runs it's course.
And please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I am somehow an idiot when it comes to politics because I didn't know there was a fasces symbol on the floor of the The House. If you want to truly Ad Hominem at least make it more sophisticated and conditional than that. That implicit insult is truly pathetic.
Omg, the CIA seal in Langley reads "The Truth will set you Free", if you didn't know that was on the floor then you are a moron.
By the way I love your new avatar. I was just watching the movie last night on cable.
Me too. I was sincerely frightened of the McCain/Palin ticket.
But you have to wonder at just exactly how scary McCain/Palin was. That was the best that the republican party and millions of dollars could come up with? The chance that a woman from the back of beyond who likes to shoot things and believes creation should be taught in school would be in charge of the nuclear weapons?
Now, I am not suggesting a conspiracy, but look how excited y'all are that you have a "african american" president.
I remember clearly how excited I was that a middle-class girl from a working family (shop in London) became prime minister of England. Instead of the rich white lawyers we had had before and afterwards. She was all about "change."
Riots in the streets. Massive over inflation of property values, Unions destroyed, a war with Argentina. Massive tax increases. Oh yes. Radically "Changed"
I am not a skeptic. I am a realist.
But she was elected on a promise to curb the unions. She was extremely non-consensual and far right in her politics. People got what they asked for with Mrs T.
She was also the first woman prime minister, and the union thing was one of many changes promised. Lower income taxes and reduced public expenditure were biggies. "Change,"
The one and only promise she delivered on was to destroy the unions. At a huge cost. After the unions were destroyed, unemployment went through the roof, and the era which has just come crashing down was born.
"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."
She said on being elected.
She managed to dupe her way back in for a second term with a war with Argentina. lol - As though there was any sort of contest in that.
Just doing the same thing the republicans were, they know that the general public has no attention span. The put a woman up there to so people would vote for a woman. That's what the entire thing was about.
Nah, your a pessimist whose been informed by real life experiences that make your views on the matter understandable. The whole "realist" thing is just as much a myth as absolutism is.
but.... the man hasn't even been in office yet and you haven't seen any changes....
Hmm, I wonder why.
Hitler may have been against abortion but obviously that still didnt make him pro-life now did it ?
..and another thing if a Homosexual commits Murder and a Straight person comitts murder , dont they both comitt Murder?........end of story in my mind........
It did make Hitler pro-life at the time. He didn't just out and say the Jews should be killed, he only lead up to that years later. He started by saying Jews are our enemies......
As you can see by the above video, the real enemy according to some of the people in that Convention held by the National Federation of Republican Women is not terrorism or extremist Islam, but Islam itself. The guy in the video goes on to lay out what has been dormant all along beneath the "extremist Islam" rhetoric which we have heard all along, that Bin Laden is a true Muslim and that Islam is our enemy. This is almost exactly how Nazism started towards the Jews, and our language has taken eight years to get to the point where several official speakers at a Republican Committee/Convention/Federation have gotten what they would claim to be "the balls" to come out and say it. According to these people, Islam is the enemy and not terrorism.
So the Dragon rears it's ugly head.
Welcome to the Global War on Terro..*cough*.. Islam.
Here is a story that broke in New Mexico before the election:
Sources taken from:
http://news.aol.com/article/gop-asked-t … nti/220322
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gNWZ … gD940BOV80
Alamogordo Daily News (the original link isn't open anymore except for a fee).
Why I'm a Republican
Alamogordo Daily News
Article Launched: 10/21/2008 12:00:00 AM MDT
I read in today's paper what a woman wrote explaining why she's a Democrat. Let me tell you why I'm not. I'm a Republican because:
1. I believe in a sovereign God who sometimes gives us what we deserve.
2. I believe Muslims are our enemies.
3. I believe in life. A baby is not just a fetus, but a living being no matter where it resides.
4. I believe there is a good reason for the death penalty.
5. I believe in fiscal responsibility, for the government and for us.
6. I believe the government is way too big and rife with greed and corruption.
7. I believe in the truth. People believe lies because it's much easier than finding the truth.
8. I believe in personal responsibility. That includes spanking your children.
9. I believe American women should raise their own children and American men should be men enough to pay for children they've produced.
10. I believe a man and woman make marriage. Period.
11. I believe in America first and foremost and we ought to take care of our own people, our own land, and illegal aliens should go home.
12. I believe in guns and knowing how to use them properly.
13. I believe war is a fact of life and we should always win.
14. I believe in lower taxes. I know how to spend money better than Congress any day
15. I believe in voter ID.
16. I believe there is a moderate and a socialist in this election.
I agree with a two-party system, but Obama isn't a messiah or a democrat.
He's a Muslim socialist."
Now, what were you saying about pro-life again?
I mean in the last 30 years..........
But, I am sure your certainty that things are going to change radically in the next four years are founded on solid promises from the one politician in the world that will do it
Eagle - I didn't think anyone had swallowed that "pro-life," garbage.
You sure you are old enough to drink?,..........
But I am sure you are certain you know what I think about Obama more than I do (not).
I know you mean in the last thirty years, but you cannot claim no change has occurred when the man is not even president yet....
I am not only old enough to drink (just like her), I am old enough to regurgitate assumptions put in my mouth in an astute manner....
I don't think things will necessarily change radically over the next four years, but then again of course I altered that after the accusation didn't I or did I? So you will just have to go back to presuming you know more about what I think than I do and keep kidding yourself that you are the mind reader you really aren't...
Things necessarily need to change radically, over the next four years. Otherwise, nothing will have changed. Now, by radically, I do not mean a 3% decrease in military spending that will be put back up 6% by the next administration, I mean radically.
But what you have said about Obama is this:
These are some pretty radical changes right here. I hope he will make these changes also.
Something is rotten with the world wide financial system (much of which is based in Manhattan and the City of London). Something is rotten in the level of consumerism in the USA. Something is rotten with these insidious attacks by right-wing christians on the rights of others.
Something is rotten with the war on terror. Domestically and internationally.
Theoretically, the President of the USA is in a position to do something about some of these things.
We shall see.
Let's talk in 4 years time
Too bad that hope is by definition an emotion and as such does not constitute a presumptive thought of what certainly will happen as you falsely claimed I implied.
But at least you tried to impute certainty even though you failed by confusing what I hope and wish for with an alleged certainty of what I think will happen...
"This man could actually do some good."
I am on to you now.
Backpedaling won't help you.
Don't make me bust out dictionary.com and the definition of the word could versus the definition of the word will, please don't. It wouldn't be good for you, seeing as how you seem to be so certain of yourself when it comes to allegedly knowing what I think will certainly happen.
OK - You did not say anything solid. My mistake. Could, hope, think. Just like a politican
Edit - I just checked and you are not proud either.
What exactly are you?
Do you have an opinion?
Another, unfounded assumption that I am proud to be an American because of words like "could, hope, think", but it's an understandable one.
Whatever happened to being proud to be an American because of what people like Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson stood for, and knowing that those kind of ideas can have power in our society and societies elsewhere that need to periodically remind themselves of the foundations of modern Western Civilization in order to retain their identity?
What they believed in is a set of ideals and go by the term "The Rights of Man". Hitler could have come to our shores and killed every last man, woman, and child that still believed in those ideas and the ideals behind them, but it is very hard to kill ideas with bullets. You need weapons of Mass Destruction and total annihilation for that project, generally speaking.
I am proud to be an American because I wear the flag of our Fathers in my heart (limbic region of the brain), and hold to those ideals in my head as well. The criminals that founded our country were fairly uncompromising people who believed in those ideas and the ideals underlying them, and could very well be labeled terrorists if they existed today. They might also disown us as cowards (the whole lot of us) if they were alive today, and perhaps rightly so.
Also, E Pluribus Unum has been used by Obama to describe what he is doing as it relates to how he sees America. I find some particular significance in the fact that he chose to use that rather than the relatively new phrase "In God We Trust" which replaced that expression as the official motto in 1956.
A lot of people have accused Obama of being a cult leader or something, which is quite ironic for those that somehow pathetically perceive themselves to be on the "other side" of the political "fence" with their common remarks about how Islam is the enemy (that remark appears to be becoming commonplace nowadays.)
Having heard several reports of Archbishops in the RCC (from exclusively Catholic sources), that had publicly come out and announced their support of the McCain-Palin ticket, I find it difficult to believe people when they assert that Church and State really are separated at this point in time. Then again, it isn't surprising given that the entire "pro-life" movement has sold it's soul on a one issue ticket time and again to the exclusive disregard for the potential primacy of any other issue or set of issues or combination of issues whatsoever thus making them very vulnerable to unscrupulous politicians who can easily manipulate such a polarized voting bloc which is also now plagued by xenophobia and Islamophobia in addition to bigotry towards homosexuals.
Hitler did almost exactly that, and I defy anyone to disprove me on this point. Hitler was every bit the evil genius. I will quote from things and places you've never even heard of if anyone challenges me on this. Perhaps I remember my history incorrectly, but that is doubtful.
A guy like Hitler always stands in contrast to The Rights of Man that was believed by Pain, Jefferson, Franklin, and others. A lot of people on the "New Right" don't really seem to know what those Rights of Man are, and usually arrogantly claim that everything that is good in their little pathetic dogmatic denomination (even if it is comprised of just one church), MUST HAVE been responsible for those Rights of Man. It just must have, they all seem to say. It must have been the results of the dogma they espouse and all those good 'ole traditional family values! Aha, it must be!
Or so they say....
Did Prophecy Teacher flee to the hills and stockpile for Jesus or something? Where has he gotten to? He just poofed after the election. Do you know Mark?
I would think prophecy teacher ran into a little more resistance than he was expecting
He. like a lot of those who were dropping by at that time, were more interested in preaching than discussing. I did not see a single thread he was involved in where some one wasn't poking holes in his "teachings."
As to the other stuff, I admit I assumed you were proud, rather than actually said it. You must realize, this "hoping, thinking, and could-ing," is part of the plan. And all the "pride," from others. Just look at how excited everyone is. Hoping and "praying," for a change.
After the event, I will be all over it with pride. Let me see the USA withdraw troops from all over the world. Let me see a solution to the financial "crisis," that does not involve borrowing more billions from the empty tax-payers coffers to give to banks so that they can lend it back to the people who paid the money in in the first place. Let me see an increase in education spending. Let me see a reasonable attempt to fix the medical and petrochemical industries so that the man in the street is not held to ransom. Let me see a trillion dollars spent on wind farms and solar panels. Let me see a reduction in the proportion of taxes that go solely to support the government machine. Let me see the Patriot Act revoked. Let me see the prisoners in Gitmo released or at least tried.
But on the promise of "change,"?
Realist, skeptic or whatever.
Like god - I will believe it when I see it.....
And Ben is right - you are awful testy lately
Yeh, the skepticism is to be expected. No biggie, I am skeptical too.
We shall see what he does, we shall see. The tides of fascism have momentarily been held back, then again maybe not...
No matter what way you cut the mustard, the US Government comes out with a big ownership of private insurance companies as well as other entities such as banks. If this isn't a form of true Socialism willfully and deliberately initiated by the Bush administration then wtf is?
Yes, Mike. I am keen to see where you are going with this one
Well it was on national TV, a red flag with a yellow hammer and sickle in the top corner of the flag, in front of the Whitehouse. And you 3 are right, you know what I am talking about because you 3 are part of the group that like to spread your atheist belief in just about every Christian or religious thread in the religion forum.
No big deal though. It was clearly a small group of commeys that thought they were larger than they were. I'm just reporting what I seen.
"This is exactly what I warned about in a couple of threads started by atheists in the religion forum." NORAD
North American Atheist Defense Command.
Come on, Communism is dead. The Chinese certainly don't practice it anymore. Juche in North Korea is a joke. And the Russians only seem to like the more draconian aspects of it - they are a market economy, too.
There's always Cuba, but that's just propped up by nostalgics.
Any sort of "red scare" on US soil is being designed and fomented by the GOP rump, who are trying all sorts of angles to try to regain power in 2 years.
If the red scare is all they can come up with, they'll be waiting more than 2 years.
No, no, Mike has a theory.
Go on Mike, tell us the theory again. I could do with cheering up. It has been pissing with rain for days and I spent the afternoon justifying my existence to a petty bureaucrat so my wife could renew her work visa.
Rahm Emanuel for Chief of Staff. Looks like, sorry to say,
'Meet the new boss - same as the old boss'
My German friends have an expression:
"If elections changed anything - they would be illegal."
Well, GWB sure changed a few things--for the worse, and he's still trying his best
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/opini … ref=slogin
http://www.freep.com/article/20081107/O … 69/OPINION
These are not changes. They are part of a logical progression that has been going on for years. Now look back over the last 50 years and see how many similar instances have gone on.
The Scottish government have just caved in to Donald Trump and allowed him to destroy an unusual natural habitat in Aberdeenshire:
http://blog.luxuryproperty.com/donald-t … -scotland/
Exactly the same. And these guys were elected on the basis of "sustainable development and environmental protection."
But the economic benefits out weigh the environmental cost.
As though these people can measure that
Well, you have a strange definition of change which is apparently much more sudden and radical than my use of the word which is more incremental. And the changes Bush brought were not especially incremental--reckless, costly unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, unilateral foreign policy, violation of the Geneva Convention by torturing prisoners, spying on American citizens, cutting taxes for oil companies and corporations generally and for the richest Americans, despoiling the environment, failing to regulate Wall Street banks, violating the principle of separation of church and state in the development of government policies and regulations, etc, ad nauseum. I'm not expecting miracles from Obama, but I do expect a far better performance than Bush who put the country (and the world) into a deep hole from which it's going to take a while to get out of.
Already it seems that our newly elected president, in whom I have great expectations, is showing a leaning toward the middle - or even closer to the old patterns of our government with his selection of Rahm Emanuel, and this disturbs me. Will Obama pursue a policy of bringing a peaceful end to the Israeli/Palistinian problem by offering the Palistinians as much belief and credit to their cause as our government has to that of Israel's cause? Will Obama really reverse the Pentagon's agenda? Will he remove all troops from Iraq? Will he quit the fighting in Afghanistan? I'm still hopeful he will not allow himself to be shoved into the old patterns established by Clinton and Bush.
I've joined a group has dedicated itself to bringing our voices closer to Obama's ear.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/million_message … amp;v=2397
This is its intitial message to Obama:
Dear President Obama:
As citizens across the world, we congratulate you on your election, and celebrate your campaign commitments to sign a strong new global treaty on climate change, close Guantanamo prison and end torture, withdraw carefully from Iraq, and double aid to fight poverty. No one country or leader can meet the world's most pressing challenges alone, but working together as one world in a spirit of dialogue and cooperation, yes we can bring real and lasting change.
Maybe my fellow hubbers will choose to join in this effort?
Thanks for the link, vitaeb. I wasn't familiar with that organization and will have to check them out.
Emanuel isn't as progressive as I'd like, but neither is Obama, and at least he'll be taking orders rather than giving them. He's a good enforcer, from what I've heard, and Obama will likely be needing that. Personally, I'm more concerned about the possibility of Larry Summers at Treasury: http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=9753
Yeah vitaeb I've been a member of this group for a few years myself. It's a good organization.
"If elections changed anything - they would be illegal."
Since, you guys seem to know and he won't say, why don't you tell us his aganda, Mark/Misha?
No, you have to hear him tell it.
It is awesome
Come on Mike, we are waiting.....
No agenda DJ. I was just reporting what I seen. The CBC Washington correspondent was Henry Champ. livelonger I'm very glad that Obama won the election but McCain did describe Putin with 3 letters, KGB. McCain was right. If you want to know more go to Mark's thread in the religion forum titled 'Atheism Rules' from page 59 and on. At least that's where I think I posted it, I can't find it now. I can find the link that it came from but I can't find the exact page right now. This is the link. Some wingnut posted it in another political forum that I go to some times.
Please.. How good or bad he will be as a president had nothing to do with why he was elected.
I have a few things to say about that:
The Korean war
The Vietnam war
The first Gulf war
Savings and Loans
The gold standard
Need I go on? Sure, you can point the finger at Bush (as I do) but the underlying trend remains the same. There is no doubt in my mind that the "financial crisis," was set in motion long before the idiot from Texas came to office.
Read Ron Paul's book "revolution," if you haven't.
I'm not a fan of Ron Paul except for his position wrt the Iraq war and other meddling and military activity by the U.S. in other countries. The best I've seen on this is the book and movie by Norman Solomon entitled "War Made Easy."
http://hubpages.com/hub/War-Made-Easy-n … an-Solomon
If you call the 8-year President as idiot, what would you call Obama when he get out? He will not certainly prove better.... except that he is charismatic among African-Asian community in America.
Vitaeb - Ricken and the Awaaz group are doing some great mobilisation efforts through the internet around the world especially in areas like global warming- I'm sure they will put their all into this as well - I've been a member since they began.
Keep in mind we know very little about Obama.
"Who Am I?
I was raised in one country but my father was born in another. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with a number of women.
I became very close to my mother because my father showed little interest in me. Then my mother died at an early age from cancer. Later in life, questions arose over my real name. My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a reliable birth certificate.
I grow up practicing one faith, but converted to Christianity because this was widely accepted in my country. But I practiced non-traditional beliefs and did not follow mainstream Christianity.
I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I embarked on a new career.
I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned me as a child.
I became active in local politics when I was in my 30s and then burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office when I was in my 40s. I had a virtually non-existent resume, very little work history, and no experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker who managed to draw incredibly large crowds during my public appearances.
At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy. I was critical of my country in the last war. But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the country's economy. I had a plan on how we could do better. I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess.
Mine was a peoples campaign. I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the traditional path of politics and was able to gain widespread popular support. I offered the people the hope that together we could change our country and the world.
I spoke on behalf of the downtrodden including persecuted minorities such as Jews, but my actual views were not widely known until after I became my nations leader. However, anyone could have easily learned what I really believed if they had simply read my writings and examined those people I associated with. But they did not.
Then I became the most powerful man in the world. And the world learned the truth.
Who am I?
Thank you so much for the hatchet job, TrophyMan. I'm sure we'll all be watching Obama for any fascist leanings once he assumes office. /sarcasm
Here's Charlie Rose on PBS today who spoke to both Evan Thomas and Jon Meacham of Newsweek magazine:
MEACHAM: He's very elusive, Obama, which is fascinating for a man who's written two memoirs. At Grant Park he walks out with the family, and then they go away.
ROSE: Mmm. Mmm-hmm.
MEACHAM: Biden's back, you know, locked in the bar or something.
ROSE: (haughty chuckle)
MEACHAM: You know, they don't let him out. And have you ever seen a victory speech where there was no one else on stage?
MEACHAM: No adoring wife, no cute kid. He is the messenger.
THOMAS: There is a slightly creepy cult of personality about all this. I mean, he's such an admirable --
ROSE: Slightly. Creepy. Cult of personality.
ROSE: What's slightly creepy about it?
THOMAS: It -- it -- it just makes me a little uneasy that he's so singular. He's clearly managing his own spectacle. He's a deeply manipulative guy.
ROSE: Watching him last night in that speech, he finishes --
ROSE: -- and he sort of -- it's almost like he then ascends to look at the circumstance.
MEACHAM: He watches us watching him.
THOMAS: Watching him!
THOMAS: He does --
MEACHAM: It's amazing.
ROSE: It is amazing.
THOMAS: He writes about this metaphor being a screen upon which Americans will project. He said they want of Barack Obama; I'm not sure I am Barack Obama.
THOMAS: He had -- he has the self-awareness to know that this creature he's designed isn't necessarily a real person, and he's self-aware enough --
I think maybe you are up a little too early today. More rest might be in order.
If you want to talk politics, that's fine. If you want to talk ideology, that's fine.
But to presume that everyone is presuming you to be a moron and everything you say to be idiotic is not the most conversation inducing policy available.
As far as thinking outside the box, I don't consider myself to be in the box. And I don't necessarily see the need to think inside your designated box, whatever that may be.
My point about the fasces was that the official symbols of the US should be allowed to inform us concerning the true intent and policy of US government. If we choose to ignore such official pronouncements and proceed to resist and oppose such official policy, then we will reap the consequences.
Of course, proud identification with such a sordid cast of "criminals" is purely a personal choice. I would never think to joust you from such a lofty perch, especially when holding a fasces.:
You presume to think that I think that everyone thinks I am a moron, and how much further from the truth could you be? But that is the nature of presumptions now isn't it? I think, (not that you asked), that most people on this board are average intelligence or above, and most of those people probably regard me as above average intelligence. There goes your presumption to know what I think better than I do myself. Just give up in trying to assume, let it go, relations go so much better with other people when you don't presume to know what they are thinking better than they do. I have learned this the hard way many many times.
Who says I am trying to put you in a box somewhere, you still haven't really done anything to reply to my comments.
You have replied in a manner that is wrong and inappropriate and now you have lied.
"But to presume that everyone is presuming you to be a moron and everything you say to be idiotic is not the most conversation inducing policy available."
Where did I say this? Hmm? Care to quote me?
Perhaps you should not flatter yourself by equating your own person to be "everyone" in the above sentence.
Please do quote.
I will repeat myself one last time, I don't think that everyone here thinks I am a moron or an idiot and neither do I presume that premise to be the case. Au contraire, most people here are average or above average intelligence, as am I myself.
Strawman much? The crows are nesting on him. Oh, the box the box, here it comes put the strawman in his box.... How ironic? Not really...
Well I for one was not happy with the choice Americans made on election day. I wonder how the American electorate could have elected a man with so little experience. A man that pledged to use public money and went back on his word. A man with only 4 years in the senate and two of those were spent on his presidential bid. This is a man that won this election by buying his way in with promises of cash to the middle class. He basically sold us on hope, hope that he would be different, that he would bring change, two concepts that we could all identify with and no doubt were in need of after 8 years of Bush!
Barack Obama is a smart man, and well spoken no doubt, but he is also an ambitious man, betraying the colleague that gave him the opportunity to run for senate when her bid for election to another office didn't work out and she wanted to take her place back as nominee for senate. Mr. Obama also voted for the Patriot Act, an assault on the freedom of the American people!
I still can't imagine how anyone in America could make a rational, intelligent argument for his service as President of this nation. However, I am happy to see that this country was willing to give Obama the opportunity in spite of his ethnic background. That shows we have come a long way as a country in overcoming prejudice. Of course prejudice still exists and hate will always exist as a counterweight to love. Unfortunately, that is the way of man and nature. Still, I am hopeful that Obama will achieve success and measure up to at least a fraction of the expectations the people have placed upon him.
I can imagine how many people in America can and did make a rational and intelligent argument for both McCain and Obama, but that doesn't mean that I would call an argument for the McCain-Palin ticket to be sensible given the current climate.
As far as the US Patriot Act, wasn't that passed in the wee hours of the early morning?
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