Obama's Victory
- Poppa Bluesposted 15 years ago
0 Being President should have nothing to do with the color of one's skin, he should be judged on his character,morals and performance I am happy about the decision as I believe that the country made the right decision and I am proud to live in a country that is ready for change.
I am happy to see history and I wish him all of the best, as how many of us in this country could really do the job? Raise your hands
Hi Herman is my dog, I understand your fear and I wish I could reassure you that all will be fine however I believe all will be fine as we have clearly forgotten who raised him although his parents were not to be desired. We cannot fault the man for who is parents were, as he did not choose them. Something tells me he has a major clean up to do, and I sincerely hope he can get the economy back on track and bring jobs back to the americans. Many of us could not be the President and I have and always will swing vote however the country made the right choice, as they put his parents behind them and that is what needs to be done. I wish we could have the freedom to fix our problems but look at the mess that our country is in and unfortunately that is because we as Americans did not have a choice. He isn;t the greater evil and I believe we will see that in the coming years. When my brother in law voted for Bush on his second term I told him the blood shed from americans will be on his hands and not mine. Well low and behold we have had so many military not come home as he only wanted to complete what his father did not do. I am proud of our soldiers for going over there and proud that they stand and protect our freedom. But moving everything to other countries for fear also takes away from the americans and allows other countries to control the U.S. I will keep my money right where it is , in the U.S. as my money is more protected here then in some of the other countries as you should be watching the stock market as your fear unfortunately may have caused you to make an irritaonal descision.
mmmmm.... For someone who moves money , one would think that you are educated however based upon on how this is written, apparently you are intoxicated or not to bright. This is what I believe , you are not wealthy and you are young , you simply want someone to argue with but you do not have any idea what you are talking about. Bless your heart for trying /
Herman, For some one as educated as yourself common sense would tell you not to move your funds to foreign countries and into foreign currency is ludicrous. I am wealthy myself and would choose to help others as I am not greedy nor a whoremonger. There is nothing wrong with the middle class nor the poor as when I was 18 I certainly wasn't wealthy , I was a starving student but apparently some of us have forgotten where we were then. As for my family( wealthy) and I did not beg off of them and certainly my parents to all of us well , so my success is based on knowledge, being ,humble and not greed. It amazes me that such an educated person believes that our country is becoming socialistic due to OBAMA becoming President. I detect a little racism in you and it has nothing to do with socialism. It has to do with the color of one's skin. I have and always will help the middle class and poor and in turn I have been blessed by watching others grow to new heights and seeing them not struggle. I believe since you moved all, maybe you should pack and run as what is your purpose here in the U.S if you are that uncomfortable. Denounce the U.S. and become a citizen in another country see how your life would be then, you may think it would be glorified but I have many friends from other countries and they have become U.S. Citizens or they have a dual citizenship. I am not trying to be harsh, I am simply trying to say that you have forgotten about what the U.S. stands for and we have to get it back on track.
Herman: 1. I am not your son and I am certainly not male look at the avatar:)
2.You do not make any sense " Unlike me, you do it yourself? mmm since I always give myself who else would do it? Funny I don't know the President/Presidents directly so they certainly did not give me a call and say hey,Julianna can you give some money this week? How ridiculous!!
3. I do not honestly believe you have money and if the market does crash again you would be one of the corrupt individuals that resides in our country that we really do not need.
4. Moving money offshore ? If you were wealthy you certainly would not be sharing the information on the internet.
5. As a responsible American I am ready to give back to my country and I am not afraid of loosing any tax-shelters as if I can help my fellow americans, damn straight I will!!
6. Stock market crashing? Do you have a Genie in the bottle? or maybe a crystal ball? You are not basing it on anything but your own narrow-minded perception .
7. Herman educate yourself and then comeback and discuss this when you can make more sense. I value your opinion but it certainly is not well researched.
Well, you are certainly welcome to your opinions, You know nothing about why my opinions are what they are, what my experiences are. Or anything else. The original question was "how do I feel" I chose to answer. Your choice to try to change my feelings by being critical, simply amuses me. It appears that you think you, who know nothing about me, and can simply speak "inevitability" and get me to change my vote to what you want it to be. That is absolutely hilarious. Honestly, you've given me no reason to take you seriously. But, thanks for the laugh! (Please don't be offended, it's not my intent. It just made me laugh.)
I am patriotic and choose not to hide and on the other hand I don't give all of my money away, however I am a person that helps and does not sit up on a pedestal looking down on others. Throughout the year I am working in the soup kitchens and helping the poor and on the holidays when others are opening presents, we have bought blankets , food for the poor and we spend it handing those things out. We as a family do not recieve we give, as it is nice to get presents but the joy of giving cannot be explained.
herman, you're right that the US has some "socialist" policies, one of which is a progressive tax regime. All developed economies employ one because a market economy (also used in all developed economies, including the US) will tend to accumulate wealth among the wealthy and exacerbate wealth gaps until they become untenable. Unless you like living in a heavily-guarded gated community, it would seem, no matter how selfish you are, you would want to prevent civil conflict in your own backyard. And who's to say the guards won't turn on you, too?
That said, if you are more concerned with maintaining as high a level of your wealth as possible, at the expense of living in a new land, without your family, friends or culture, and know of a country that would accept you, then more power to you. (There are popular tax havens like the Grand Caymans, Andorra, Monaco, etc that are popular among the ultrarich precisely for this reason). It's not something I would choose to do personally, but I'm also not haunted with socialist nightmares either.LiveLonger, Iam certainly glad you pointed that out that is why I believe his whole discussion to me has been a complete facid.
Look I understand you guys dont believe in the constitution, but i still do. and as Daniel WEbster said,
God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it. – Daniel Webster (1834)
I am ready to defend it, not embrace its counterpart as you are all doing. Bring on a new revolution.
My Dear , You need to review and re-read the comments and your answers as you are stumbling all over yourself. Moving money (you do not have ) based on your orginal written article before revised is not defending your country, it of course would would take care of you. You who be one of the few who who evade taxes as Obama would not be offering the same tax shelters. I continue to pay my taxes and am not fearful of my own country, therefore who embraces our country and who does not? It certainly isn't me. You certainly don't love your country or you wouldn't be running from it, and you are certainly not guarding it or defending it.
If you were protecting it , you would standing by it!! "GOD BLESS AMERICA , LAND THAT I LOVE, STAND BESIDE HER AND GUIDE HER THROUGH THE NIGHT WITH THE LIGHT FROM ABOVE,FROM THE MOUNTAINS TO THE PRAIRIES, TO THE OCEANS WHITE WITH FOAM, GOD BLESS AMERICA, MY HOME SWEET HOME.
What the Social Democrats in Europe retreated to was the interventionist-welfare state. To have social justice, they argued, it was not necessary for the government to fully nationalize industry and all other economic activity. It is sufficient for the government to “tame” capitalism through a spider’s web of controls, regulations, and commands; and to use the tax system to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor and the deserving middle class, and to establish a network of social safety nets such as social security, national health care, public housing, and state subsidization of all education.
This is basically the ideal that Barack Obama, from all his public statements, clearly believes in and wants to see expanded beyond the extent to which they are already practiced in America. Thus, he wants to use the tax system to “spread the wealth” and apply the regulatory powers of the government to more forcefully manage and direct the economic affairs of the citizenry – all for a particular interpretation of the “common good,” of course.
His criticism of the Supreme Court goes back to the fact that the Constitution of the United States was designed to secure people in their individual rights to life, liberty, and honestly acquired property. It was not designed to micromanage the population’s personal, social, and economic affairs, and redistribute wealth from some who are designated “the rich” to others labeled “the poor.”
So is Barack Obama a “socialist”? Only he knows the answer to that in terms of a self-identifying label. But what his ideas do represent is a traditional socialist critique of capitalist society, and the belief that it is the duty of government to use its police powers to redistribute wealth in the name of the mirage of social justice.
written by Dr, Richard Eberling Oct.2008
So Mr. Herman seems to me that you are not defending our country and you certainly do not want any of your supposed wealth to be given to anyone as your fear is being middle class.I am certainly not self righteous and look who is busy calling the kettle black.::::::::::::::::
Yeah, I gave up conversing with him, too, after he included an insult in every reply back to me. Some people are incapable of civil discourse.
For me too Zarm? Ah, anyway, I quit smoking
I too think Obama's agenda is socialist, and highly likely leads to some form of communism winning this country over
Not to say McCain's agenda was any better though
Well, I would think you need to get your story straight my lying friend, because this is what you originally said:
I see no mention of oil and gold and land, I see "I have moved all my money into foreign currency."
All I was doing was pointing out that all these foreign currencies are in the same boat and was asking just exactly which foreign currency you appear to have faith in over the US dollar.
Care to answer this simple question?
Oh, and the bottletops was a joke. You know - funny.....Aggressive little so and so aren't you?
I have no doubt the dollar will fall in value. None whatsoever. The events of the last few months have just nailed the coffin shut. I am not so sure it will be against other currencies though, because, although you seem to think this is all about the US, many other governments have followed suit and printed money they do not have. Including the euro, ruble, dirham, yen, yuan and pound.
You pick pesos, I pick bottle tops
Communists of Hubpages all over the World, unite!
People will understand you better when you improve your English a bit. Meanwhile be prepared to explain yourself in different words over and over again, until you make sure people understood you correctly
Venu, I have a question , I realzie you love the forums but when are you going to publish an article on your experiences? You appear to be very talented? ::::::::::::::::
I guess we can start discussion on what reality actually is - but this is gonna be a serious off-top
But you did not answer the question thoughSo, are you saying people should not give to community/country what they can, and their needs like shelter, food, health care, etc. should not be covered? Did I understand you correctly?
Sure
People for whom English is not native language often are misunderstood by native speakers, and have to make extra effort to make sure they got their message acrossUnless he actually made a "change"
Which is unlikely.....Highly unlikely
I am yet to see Americans to agree on what exactly "change" they need - and until then all talks about it are just that - talks...
It's even not funny how similar it is to the late 80s in Soviet Union - the most popular song was called "We demand the Change!"
He is the President of the Unites States. The "most powerful man in the world."
According to the ads, it is within his power to change US government policies.
What exactly do I expect him to keep the same?
1. The number of US troops in foreign countries
2. The percentage of federal tax dollars spent on the military
3. A continuation of the "bail out" policies for big businesses in trouble
4. Continual "investment" in carbon-based energy production
5. Lack of investment into the education system
6. Continued support of the current health care model to favor the pharmaceutical companies
I could go on......
What exactly do you expect him to change?Not a very ambitious range of "changes," for all the hype and hooha.
And the war in Iraq is only pointless and expensive from a certain perspective. I imagine AM General Motors are quite happy with the current state of affairs and many more like them.
None of these are really going to make a great deal of difference to more than a tiny minority. No, offense, (and I am sure you know which side of the fence I am on) but making gay civil unions legal at a federal level will not make a great deal of difference to many people, regardless of the bitching and complaining by the fascists, oh I'm sorry, loving christians.
As President of the USA, he is in a position to make some solid changes. But, this would mean going against the on-going process of nationalizing everything and supporting big business over the needs of the man in the street. And this is not just a US problem, it is all over the world.
A lot of people got very excited in countries outside the US when he was elected. But as far as I can tell, it is because he is not a rich white lawyer/banker, and they expect him to do something different.
.Oh, well if you think that is enough to constitute "change," I stand corrected. If you are happy with this as the total commitment Obama has made to change things, then all power to you.
As I recall, we had a similar discussion pre-election victory when I said this was not the sort of changes that made any sort of change.
Maybe he won't start another pointless and expensive war. But he has inherited 2 that he could choose to do something about. Do you honestly think the United States has the resources to start a third?
And these idiots are making more money than you or I out of the current 2.
I will get to the uninsured. But that is what I was saying.
Number of people in the USA - 300 million+
Number of gay people - 10 million
Not a lot.
No argument. If I see him dropping $100 billion into green technology development, I will happily change my tune. At the moment, he seems to have decided that $50 billion to the big 3 car makers is s good idea, despite the fact that pretty much every one agrees this is a very very short term measure.
An end to Guantanamo and torture. I agree, I would like to see that also, but I don't see that as a big change. More like back stepping a step.
I wish you well on the sex scandal thing
But, I am sure you would agree that Clinton did not make any fundamental changes. They were easily overturned by the following administration without so much as a by your leave.
Obama was elected on the promise of change. And I don't mean the fact that he is half black. Fundamental changes. The type of changes that are not quickly and easily reversed by the next guy in office.
What do I think he should do to make some fundamental changes?
I guess I would put environmental and military issues at the top of my list, and here are a few fundamental changes that would not be easily over-turned in five minutes.
1. A 75% reduction in military spending and an immediate withdrawal from most countries the US has troops in, including Iraq and Afghanistan
2. A commitment to developing replaceable energy to the tune of minimum $100 billion.
3. A commitment to mass transit where practicable and leave the big 3 to sort it out themselves.
4. A commitment to health care that involved taxing the crap out of insurance companies and pharmaceuticals to pay for the uninsured.
5. A "windfall tax" on big energy producers that would be spent on developing "green" energy.
That would do for a startLOL The day of surprises - now I find myself in complete disagreement with Mark
Suffice it to say, you and I have very different perspectives on change. The US is, due to diversity of its peoples and backgrounds, one that makes incremental change. I think Bush's changes (for the worse) were the most drastic in our recent history.
I can understand your cynicism, but your definition of meaningful change is odd to me. How many million people does any of his work have to affect in order for it to mean anything to you? A majority? I don't want to suggest that the 4 things I mention will be what he will spend 4 years working on alone. I meant they will be meaningful departures from the previous administration.
Agreed. But there are things that the government does to ensure stability (very much a psychological phenomenon) that I don't agree with but can understand. The devil's in the details, so let's see what any proposed bailout means.
Re: torture, stepping back to a place of normality and reason would effectively be a step forward. Remember how the definition of torture got twisted here during the Bush era; even McCain, a torture victim himself, was willing to betray our values for political points.
Changes aren't meant to be permanent...and I'm glad they aren't set up to be that way. The government has a system of checks and balances that prevents any government from making indelible changes to laws. Again, a good thing.
I'm curious how you came up with the numbers in #1 & #2 above. They seem to be above what Obama's proposing. Just high enough for you to express disappointment with him?
In general, though, I agree on your points: bold bets on military reduction, energy, transportation, healthcare would be welcome. We'll see what Obama & the Democratic Congress will be able to do (the latter is more beholden to lobbyists than Obama). It's good to keep the pressure on, though.
Guess they have right wing, war-mongers in India too
Just as a matter of interest, I have a question -
The US/UK have been occupying Afghanistan for 7 years, Iraq for 5 and have spent billions of dollars/pounds on this "war on terror."
The only things we have to show for it is access to Iraqi oil, and a gas pipeline being built through Afghanistan against the wishes of the people of that country.
I know that you Indians are desperate for this gas so you can "grow your economy," but -
Do you really believe this war is about "terror," or are you just ignorant of these facts?
Your society and culture are rapidly disappearing in an effort to replicate America's culture
I have visited your country and I did not find wisdom, I found grinding poverty and an inequality of wealth not seen in the West since Victorian times.
You should not believe everything you see on the TV propaganda broadcasts.
I say ignorant because any fool can see that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are about money - not fighting bin laden.
There is not even any proof that he is in Afghanistan and the US military admit they have not heard or seen of him for a long time.
And I never said oil, I said gas. Can you not read English? Are you ignorant of the enormous natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan to your country?
Wealth is taken not "earned," as you have just pointed out to me.
Make your mind up.
Boy, you are really earning your title of "ignorant."
You were the one complaining of all the taking that was going on, now you are saying that you are war-mongering so that you can be freed from it and you are accusing me of having a colonial attitude, whilst shouting about how happy you are that Afghanistan is being attacked by the US.
Wasn't that during Clinton's time though?
I don't have any data to suggest anything. I just found it funny that it clearly happened during one of the most "democratic" president rule
And what are the chances?.....
You seemed to equate fundamental changes with (at least partial) permanence, when you said:
Fundamental = not easily overturned = something that withstands the will of a new incoming administration due to bureaucratic roadblocks
Right?
And "[Congress is] more beholden to lobbyists than Obama" implies that Obama is still somewhat beholden to them. I am not arguing that he is completely free of lobbyist influence. But if you follow the money trail (you always have to), you'll see that he got the vast majority of his funding from "microdonations" across millions of people. Much better than a handful of big donations from big donors.
And I can totally sympathize with your wife.Sorry - that is not what I meant. I meant, Fundamental = changed at the root = not easily overturned, etc.
For example, a 4% decrease in military spending is not a fundamental change, because nothing really changes at the root of the issue, and a simple flick of the pen by the next guy (or gal lol) in office is enough to increase the spending level again.
But, a 75% reduction in military spending, combined with a withdrawal of troops, closure of bases in foreign countries, and a policy of defense rather than aggresive pre-emptive actions that have been seen to be nothing more than an expansion of the American Empire, would be a more fundamental change that is not so easily overturned.
That is not to say these changes cannot be overturned, but it would require a shift in fundamental policy to do so.
It would also require "faith," in the fact that much of the perceived threat to the American people is manufactured scare mongering
And let's say the big car makers are allowed to fold and be left to the wolves, and instead $100 billion is pumped into developing renewable energy.
I guess we shall see if these microdonors get what they are hoping for. Or even if these are the "changes" they elected him for.
I must admit to being a little unsure as to exactly what changes the electorate is expecting or hoping for.
More of the same only a little bit better does not seem to be it
Milk caps!
That would work too.
My German friends tell me that the German government is seriously considering offering interest-free loans to citizens to buy cars......
Consume, consume, consume.
How long before you get paid to buy a car?......when pigs fly!
I haven't been paying much attention to the forums lately so I don't know if it has come up yet but...
Obama the man who promised a change, is putting all the same people (for the most part) from the Clinton admin, into his new cabinet. suprise, suprise!
There is an alleged agreement now for a deadline to pull all the troops out of Iraq, and well that isn't until Dec. 31, 2011.
and to top it off, but a little of subject, our whatchamacallums, those Federal Judges, will be seated with professed "christian" judges, so one could only "speculate" that there is some inside work going on here.
It sorta dawned (lack of better word) on me, that before the prop 22 passed, that the 'churches' had been in the works of having this overturned as it was with pro8,
so I wonder who has the inside scoop? It feels like all this "stuff" about Obama, and Osama, and the market crash etc...is really just tool to keep people busy-ing themselves elsewhere.
yeah- I will take aluminum cans!!
Okay Dutchman, this sounds like it could be fun.
Lionswhelp I think the Marxist scare around Obama is mostly coming from Republican sore losers. In fact I think a good dose of social responsibility, like universal health care and a better safety net for the poor would do the US good. Although I did receive a fairly scary e-mail concerning Rahm Emanuel, the guy that Obama picked for the White House Chief of Staff. But the person that sent it also sends stuff about Ron Paul or anything except the Dems or Reps.
Lionswhelp concerning your pre-millennial belief about the 1,000 year period mentioned in Revelations 20, well just yesterday I read that some groups that believe this actually become activists in pushing the end times. That would mean they are pushing God's hand and actually advocating for the other side. This same belief was held by some around the time of the Crusades and other periods of upheaval. Zoroastrianism, pre-Christianity, utopianism, Judaism, Nazism and some millennial sects of Christianity have all had a thousand-year period as you can read on this wikipedia about Millennialism. I think it was the Britannica Encyclopedia that said Mormons, Jehovah Witness and Seventh Day Adventists follow a pre-millennial belief. You may want to be aware of this. Continue to read about the 1,000 year period but I think it's better to leave the timing in God's hands.
I have no doubt what you say regarding the Rothschilds, Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Freemasons, Gnostic and Luciferians all having the same agenda. There's a lot of material on the internet connecting them all to the New World Order and dastardly deeds.
I don't know how true it is but I have also read some under world group wants to cull the human race to 500 million. I have just read this once online and it connected the British Royal house to it. The British Royal house have also been connected to the above groups. And not just in the movie titled From Hell starring Johnny Depp about Jack the Ripper but many other times online and off as well.
I've read about internment camps in the US but I haven't heard that there are foreign national troops manning some of them though. I haven't read about gas chambers or crematoriums either.
I did a Google search about the 30,000 guillotines that suppose to have been imported to the US. I found a couple of commentors posting about it on activist blogs such as Alex Jones and others. And I found a couple of web sites of companies that import guillotine shearing machines. One pdf that I looked at was about a company that was itemizing their machinery and equipment that listed 2 guillotine shearing machines valued at 30,000, as well as sheet bending, bench drilling, portable grinding and other machines.
I did find one very anti Catholic and anti Democratic web site by a publisher with clear pre-millennial beliefs that speculate the states of Georgia and Montana will or has purchased guillotines. The site does have a link to a web site that looks like a Georgia House of Representatives page from 1995 titled HB1274 - Death penalty; guillotine provisions. So I did a search for the state of Georgia web site and from there did a search for HB1274. But it just found the 2007 House Bill 1274 page. When you go to the page from the Georgia site it doesn't look like the previous one but that could just mean they have changed their format. Anyway if you are concerned you may want to avoid the state of Georgia or possibly even Montana. Especially if you are a Catholic Democrat.
There clearly is a Marxist group that wants to start a revolution in the US seeing anyone can find the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA online but this is a quote on one of their pages "the election of Obama will create (and no doubt already is creating) some new difficulties for us". These punks are clearly a small group of fanatics on the fringe, like the pre-millennialists. Thank God.
Marxism is definitely a threat seeing the huge amount of deaths attributed to Marxism in the 20th century.
But I'm not buying your theory that Obama, Hillary or Bill Clinton are Marxists Lionswhelp. At least not yet.
Don't believe everything you read online Lionswhelp. Especially if it comes from a pre-millennialists publisher. Like I mentioned to you in another thread, "You wouldn't want to eventually realize that you are doing the bidding of the illuminati."
Mike
P.S. Did I win a Priceless Prize yet Dutchman?Mike, so you and Ralph are supporting the communism motto
Does this make you communists?
OK, so communism is not evil per se, right?
Only for some mysterious reason every single one of countries which tried to implement it ended up with despotism and ruined economy Why? As I mentioned on this thread already, communism motto is "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs". Back in USSR we all did learn this by heart as soon as we could pronounce this, you know. This is what every communist lives by
Yes, I'm pretty much with you on that. Every communist country ends up in communist party being the owner of everything and everybody.
BUT
The vast majority of people actually are trying to live the motto!
What prompts me thinking there should be something wrong with the motto itself, if every attempt to implement it ends up with despotism...
Word "utopia" comes to mind in relation to this
It's like - yeah, it would be great if people can fly all by themselves, nice dream, you know. But try to step out of the window on 17th floor...
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
Funny, sometimes when I am talking to some older folks, friends and all, I am chatting about stuff that seems really nice, and they go (that has happened more than a few times) you know that is communism right?
Communism...so interesting.
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