Immigration:

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   MP50posted 12 years ago

   Why are people leaving their own Countries in the middle east for example and coming to Europe in the false belief of a better life? The middle east is one of the richest areas in the world.
   
   Why can't these Countries in the middle east support thier own people? The middle east has much more money than any European Country! Where has all the money gone from the two dead leaders? These Men were worth Trillions!
   
   Most European Countries can't look after thier own people, let alone thousands of immigrants. As an Englishman paying into a taxation system my whole life. I am entitled 320 english pounds a month! Immigrants get at least 1000 english pounds a month, plus a house and all the bills paid?
   
   No I am not a Racist, these issues need to be addressed for the benefit of everyone involved. It is hardly surprising that both sides are becoming more and more pissed off.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The answer is simple. Political persecution.

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for the comment DM

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Welcome to America. I guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Here's an idea. You move here and I'll move there. Then we'll both be immigrants and can still speak the English language. Well, you might be a bit disappointed if you move to the sticks where English is barely recognizable.

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               MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks for the input couturepopcafe:-D

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      John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But obviously a Daily Mail reader as that's the only place immigrants get anything like that much.

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      Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No one leaves their home country by choice unless it is an Expat looking for adventure or change. War, Famine, and Social unrest and persecution are a few of the reasons one might leave and head for the first world.
      
      OR…
      
      Maybe this is the result of colonialism. You reap what you sow?  Many of the new immigrants come from countries that were colonized, raped and pillaged by countries like, England, Spain, Franz, etc… So it’s payback time for them. (Many of the people coming in are actually citizens, already)
      
      New World countries are a collection of immigrants so unless you are native peoples, you really should not throw stones, because you are probably just be a few generations removed from an immigrant, who by the way treated the native population disgracefully and stole most of what they have.
      
      And last but not least the information posted about what immigrants receive is often an over exaggerated generalization and downright wrong as is the information that they are lazy slackers waiting for the good citizens to pay their way.

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Please read the question and answers properly before leaving a comment. I am an English Man born and bred many many generations ago, as far back as the Vikings.
         
         My family became half Swedish and half English around this era, you have misunderstood my question totally.
         
         Your spelling is terrible, as far as the English the Spanish and the French go I would have to agree with you.
         
         You might ask yourself why immigrants to the above Countries also rape and pillage the Nationals of the said Countries, we don't stone people to death in the year 2012.
         
         Basically we are all as bad as each other, I don't remember saying anything about immigrants being lazy? Just some do have a better time than others ahead of the local population.

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            Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I somehow feel like you have hit me over the head with your little shovel while in the sandbox, with the spelling remark, so I will take my toys and go play somewhere else. 
            
            I will add though, that I am old enough to have heard your arguments more than once (reading your replies throughout the thread); they always come up when the economy goes downhill.
            
            Funny, during times when the economy is booming we invite immigration because we need the labor and then when things go awry we often wished the same people would just fade away. Yes I know this is not an answer to your question.
            
            Have a nice day…

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               MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Have we spat the dummy out then have we? Don't leave the sandbox just yet. You can play with my toys and hit me back over the head with my own shovel if you want to!
               
               Things can only get better from here, have a great weekend:-D

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      vox vocisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      My husband and I have our own firm and pay very, very high taxes (in Germany). The people you mentioned live on social welfare, their bills and rent are paid, including health care insurance. Most of the men spend majority of that money in casinos (we've seen it with our own eyes). I'm not really employed, but have to pay all of that by myself because my husband has a firm, and more over he has to pay for those people, too.  But, my friend, we must be careful. Days of freedom of speech and right to an opinion are long gone. Disagree or have the kind of opinion that we do, you'll be labeled as a non-pacifist, racist, hater, and nazi. I usually run away from posts like this forum thread, but this is my quick comment and I'll press the unfollow button very soon.

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You have a friend in me, I feel your pain thank you for your comment regards to your Husband.

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      Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In Australia we too are getting pissed off with the continual flood of migrants. It has been going since the late 1940s and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. The slogan used to be populate or perish. Nowadays you might as well say overpopulate AND perish. War and the aftermath of war are always big reasons for migrating. Overpopulation which inevitably leads to war anyway is another. Where girls are given good education and more control over their own lives as they grow into adulthood there are less children being born, more opportunities for everyone plus enough food and water to continue to sustain life. Education and lack of war seem to be two good answers hard to arrive at in some places.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Speak for yourself not my country, I am an Australian citizen and if you would bother to look at the facts you would see that immigrants on average add a boatload of money and labor to our economy, in a country where there are insufficient skilled laborers what we need is immigrants.

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            Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            We have been on this roundabout for decades Josak. Not enough young people get the skills training they need in Australia to go for the skilled laborer jobs. It is just far cheaper to bring in people from overseas to fill the skilled laborer spots. And so there are always insufficient skilled laborers and the so-called need to bring in migrants with the skills. It is a game played by government and big business to justify more migration to Australia. It is the dog chasing its tail. Read up on what Dick Smith has to say and you might be better informed.
            
            Draining overseas countries of skilled laborers, doctors, etc will remain cheaper than training our own people and, yes, it could be cost effective in the long run if the government stepped in and did something about it. As for a boatload of money, I don't  see that. In terms of money to move about, Australia is in a better financial position than many countries in Europe and certainly many state of the USA. We are far from being a third world country. A lot of it has to do with mining at present.
            
            And so the skills shortage has been created either by stupidity, laziness or collusion on the part of both state and federal governments or it comes down to making more money right now by hiring cheaply and worrying about the consequences later.
            
            I take it you are a young person Josak because you have so readily taken the federal government's general spin on migration to heart. When you have children you may start to wonder why the skills needed are not being taught in Australia and why the roundabout continues.
            
            Yes I do speak for myself and my generation who recognize the hype and the spin you are being fed. We recognize it because it has been part of our lives for so long. Well, those are the facts. Once you have been thoroughly spun, rinsed and dried you might look around and see what is really going on. More high-rises in the Sydney area to accommodate more and more people. The end of houses with backyards. Parks that have to cater to more and more people. An infrastructure of roads, trains, etc that simply cannot cope with the continuing increase in population.
            
            So young fella, don't just let them spin you. If you are an Australia and you intend to raise a family in Australia you will need to push to have skills taught here rather than imported with the people who have them. Either that or you for some reason like the set up. In which case good luck to you.

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               Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I am in my 50s and a veteran its been a while since anyone called me young the reason we lack skilled workers is one section of the population doesn't wan't to do the training because it doesn't like school of any kind and the other wants to go to Uni it gets stuck in the middle but if we can offer the opportunity to people from overseas who will be grateful for it and will work hard and have generally gained the skill elsewhere (where it is cheaper) its called a win win.

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                  Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  A win lose actually Josak. I hate slums and don't want slums to be the fate of the working class. Sure, there are kids that don't like formal school but would give a lot of themselves to get into an apprenticeship where they can make something out of themselves. There are a lot of kids that are good with their hands and will never be academics. Apprenticeships for them would be a blessing. We need our academics too. These include nurses, doctors and teachers. Yes. You do find young people who don't want to so anything. They are in the minority. About five years ago there was a chronic train driver shortage in NSW simply because of a lack of apprenticeships in past years. Drivers retiring had to be replaced either by drivers from other states or by overseas drivers. Since then this fault I believe has been corrected. Even so, this smacks of lack of local organization by government rather than anything else. Yes. Australia could continue to get trained workers from overseas but it doesn't solve anything.

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                     MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Another big problem I think is young people these days don't want hard work or long term earning through a skill like an apprenticeship, youngsters today want fast money and plenty of it.
                     
                     A survey was done last year here in Sweden by the local police force, they asked all the kids at the local schools in the area. What would you like to do as a job when you leave school? Would you become a police officer?
                     
                     Only two answers came back on the police survey, the first answer was a football star and the second answer was a drug dealer. When these kids were asked why they would choose these career's, the answer came back "MONEY" and why work when you can earn money by playing football or selling drugs!
                     
                     It is the same in England, my brother owns a construction company, he has tried to help young people by employing and providing apprenticeships within the construction industry, most of the youngsters only last a few weeks before leaving, complaining the work is to hard and doesn't pay enough "MONEY".
                     
                     Take all the specialist trades we have in England for example, roof thatcher, blacksmith, ropesmith and many more, immigrants are not at all interested in learning any of our dying trades, immigrants are looking for high end jobs, banking computing etc.
                     
                     England has been sold down the river by our own goverment, also Sweden is a little behind England and it does'nt take a rocket scientist to see the same thing happening here in Sweden in the near future.
                     
                     Thanks for your comment RM.

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                        Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        You are welcome though I am slow to give up on young people. Yes construction work is hard but here in Australia the money is good. In fact a tradesman who knows his stuff can make more than a school teacher a fortnight.
                        
                        Every young boy wants to be a football star. The smart football stars, however, plan for a second career because football star usually won't last for more than a decade at most.
                        
                        Sad to hear about dying trades.

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                           MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree I am slow to give up on our young ones too, just wish they could see that learning a dying trade is just as important as being a computer expert or a football star.
                           
                           I will use a thatched roof thatcher as an example, there are only around 1000 liciensed thatchers left in the UK, my point is learn this trade and be secure in a job for the rest of your life.
                           
                           Not employed in the uncertain technological World which is going to come crashing down I am sure.
                           
                           

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   Cassie Smithposted 12 years ago

   It sounds like you're better off dying your skin a darker shade and declaring that you're an immigrant in England.  From what you're saying, the English people don't get any respect.

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are right the English people don't get any respect at all, these immigrants and asylum seekers do need help.
      
      where has all the money gone from the middle east? Iraq for example is one of the most historical Countries in the World, where have all the artifacts gone?
      
      The wealth of this Country alone could house feed and provide running water, to the Iraqi people. Iraq is full engineers, engineering factories and good tradesmen.

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         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         We blew them all to smithereens in the name of peace!

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      Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately, John Holden has a point. You can't blame people for wanting to flee a war torn country. Australia and Great Britain have got to stop being lured into these types of wars the USA has lured us into of late. I can't see a good outcome for Iraq or Afghanistan. Keep the troops there or pull them out, it doesn't matter now. The damage has been done and taking in migrants from these countries may well be justified on humanitarian grounds and on we helped make the mess grounds as well. We have to stop doing this. Immigration may be killing us but no one will care if we are the ones putting the knife to our throats.

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   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   People emigrate because they as individuals and specific families *can* make a better life in another country.  That is a lasting truth no matter where you are going from or coming to.  It is as true for the British nurse moving to Dubai for quadrupedal the salary as for the middle east native going to the UK to start a small business in a less nepotistic atmosphere.

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      People become immigrants because their fleeing from their own Countries, due to death threats from their own people. They seek asylum in Europe on a promise of a better life which is not true.
      
      Most of them are exploited as cheap labour and never pay into the English tax system, plus they get priority treatment over an English National. There no argument that these immigrants do need help.
      
      Why can't we use the funds left in the middle east to help these people, what has happened to Iraq's wealth, Afganistans wealth? Do these immigrants really want to live in Europe or would they prefer to stay in their own Countries?

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         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Make up your mind, they are either exploited as cheap labour or they are treated to the lap of luxury, it can't be both!
         
         And how do they avoid paying into the tax system? Remember VAT?

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            Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            John Holden there are such things as sweat shops in Britain, the USA and Australia. Illegal migrants have to have money to live so they work but they don't go onto any books as being employed because they shouldn't be in whatever country in the first place. They have been smuggled in and their exploiter/employer can hold this over them. Hence you can have slave labor in counties where the general population is against that sort of thing. There is also prostitution as a means of exploiting the young, vulnerable and invisible. I say invisible because they either don't want to be or can't be part of the tax system. Another form of exploitation is to bring into a country like Australia skilled migrants to fill up vacancies with no interest or desire to fix the skills problem because the training up of locals in more expensive than the importing.
            
            There is wealth in Iraq and even in Afghanistan but don't look to the average person from these places for this wealth. It resides in the big movers and shakers. I would say a lot of the people migrating from Iraq and Afghanistan would prefer to stay in their own countries. I am not sure what the west can do at this stage in time to make them believe that staying put is the better option. It would be great if there were more incentives for them to say that have a lot to do with hope for a better future and the way to get to that better future.

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I appreciate your comment thanks.

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   SandyMcCollumposted 12 years ago

   Welcome to "The American Way."

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I understand, thanks for commenting:-D

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      Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      lol@ American way.
      
      It is the Western culture way.
      
      New Zealand does it for Asia and Russia (probably other immigrants) others born here ,it is assumed don't need assistance and pay!
      
      It seems to be similar for the states too ,where several agencies are set up to help migrants -Mexicans ,South American ie Medical ,Employment,Education.
      
      Political deals behind closed doors in any Western Country no doubt..

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I would have to go with you on the political deals, behind closed doors.
         
         Thanks for commenting Eaglekiwi.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         To everyone in this thread just read some stats, you will find that immigrants overall (particularly legal ones) actually add money to the country where they immigrate in the US and Australia (only countries I have checked) even illegal immigrants according to the US treasury increase the average whealth of an American by 1% because even the illegals pay their taxes (50 to 75 percent of them according to the treasury) so stop complaining, overall they are helping you.
         http://giocatore.hubpages.com/hub/Illeg … tion-Facts
         the above is a great resource just the facts.

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for you comment, can't talk with you about the US and AUS as I don't know the system in those Countries.
            
            Here in Europe I would agree Legal tax paying immigrants are an asset, I can't see how Illegal non tax paying immigrants can be an asset to a any Country!
            
            This is not to say these non tax payers are not welcome, it just makes one heck or a mess of everything and we always take it out on each other.
            
            I'm not complaing just saying there should be a fair system in place across the board?

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               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               How does anybody in the UK avoid paying any tax?

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            Rod Marsdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It can be done John holden. You have to be known to exist in order to pay tax. Illegals go to great lengths to  get cash in hand only  for their labor and they find other ways of staying under the government radar.
            
            The average Australian and Britain has to put up with the creation of slums to deal with ballooning populations. This is not a good thing. We would be better off without the slum conditions. In Australia our river systems are being over used because of the need to produce more and more food for a greater population.

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               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You are forgetting that we have VAT in this country! That's 20% tax on virtually everything that you buy.
               The only way to escape it is to buy nothing, no booze, no cigarettes, no prepared food,nothing.

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                  MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That is exactly what "SOME" immigrants are doing, don't you get it? They don't buy anything much at all in the UK.

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                     John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     How do they live?

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                        MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        You don't know?

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                           John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Without spending any money? No, I don't know.

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                              MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Are you truly English?

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                                 John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 That is no answer.
                                 I take it as you are down to insults that you have no proper answer.

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                                    MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Prove it.

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                                       John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       I don't have to, you already have!

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                                          MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          Quite frankly I think that anybody claiming to know nothing of what's going on in their own Country is a Liar.

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                                             John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                             So now I'm a liar!
                                             
                                             What do you mean "claiming not to know what's going on in their own country"?
                                             
                                             I just wonder how anybody survives without spending any money.

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                                                MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                Not nice to be called a liar eh john?

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                                                   John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                   It doesn't bother me, I just wonder how you reach that conclusion from your belief that people exist in this country without spending a single penny.

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                                                      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Look back through this thread and you will find the answer to your question.

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                                                         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                         No I won't because yo haven't given it.

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   DannyMaioposted 12 years ago

   A Russian arrives in New York City as a new immigrant to the United
   
   States . He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says,
   
   "Thank you Mr. American for letting me come into this country, giving
   
   me housing, food stamps, free medical care, and a free education!"
   
   The passerby says, "You are mistaken, I am a Mexican."
   
   The man goes on and encounters another passerby. "Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in America ."
   
   The person says, "I not American, I Vietnamese."
   
   The new arrival walks farther, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes
   
   his hand, and says, "Thank you for wonderful America !
   
   That person puts up his hand and says, "I am from Middle East . I am
   
   not American."
   
   He finally sees a nice lady and asks, "Are you an American?"
   
   She says, "No, I am from Africa ."
   
   Puzzled, he asks her, "Where are all the Americans?"
   
   The African lady checks her watch and says, "Probably at work."

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      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Ain't it the truth!

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      Cassie Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This is a gross exaggeration.  Legal aliens and even illegal aliens in America work hard to get what they want.  It's very unlike Britain where new immigrants can expect to get a house.

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         A big problem is illeagal immigrants work for less than natives, so local companies exploit them. The cash money these immigrants are payed is not spent in the Countries they have immigrated too.
         
         Take Poland for example, the Poles work black in England 8 men in one apartment payed for by the English goverment plus all the bills etc. While they are supposedly looking for legal work.
         
         The Poles tell they English goverment that they have families back home in Poland and the British Goverment "PAYS" them more money sent to their home address for a Wife and 4 children that actually don't exist!
         
         One of the eight Polish Men for example will drive back to Poland once a month and give all the money they have earned to their parents, there are no Children or Wife. Also they buy all the monthly supplies they need in Poland.
         
         There is no money spent in England, it is the same in Sweden. Why have immigrants when the money is taken out of the Country?

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      IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Do the US give out "housing, food stamps, free medical care, and a free education"?
      
      I thought they didn't. I know the UK does.

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         wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It is not really kosher, but no school will check the citizenship of a child, no hospital will look at your papers, and the folks handing out food stamps won't either.  Housing is a little tougher to come by but it, too, is available to illegals.
         
         New immigrants (those that have actually immigrated and completed the necessary tasks and paperwork) very often get far more than these things.

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            IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            This is amazing to me. I thought in America you had to pay for everything.
            
            Don't we read about kids taking ill and dying because their parents couldn't afford insurance?
            
            Or people being made homeless because they couldn't afford their rent/mortgage?
            
            Or people going hungry because they couldn't afford to buy food?
            
            Or is it only illegal immigrants get this help?

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               MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Here in Sweden immigrants are given everything, the Swedish goverment pays for them to go to school and learn the Swedish language. Plus any kind of extra schooling they would like, they get payed 320 SEK for this around 32 english pounds a DAY.
               
               Immigrants have never paid into the european taxation system, I am an English Man living in Sweden, England and Sweden are both part of the European union. As a dialysis patient whom is unable to work, I get 223 Swedish kronors a MONTH around 20 English pounds to live on.
               
               All my taxes as a British Citizen are paid and up to date, as in England along with Sweden immigrants are given priority over natives. I do believe it is the same system in the U.S.A.

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               MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The deeper you dig the more taken aback you will be.

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               wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               While I'm sure these things happen, they are rare.  There is no reason for a child in America to go hungry.  Housing is a little harder; low rent housing usually has a waiting list, but it is available.  Hospitals are required to treat anyone that comes into their emergency rooms.
               
               Part of the problem is those that earn from a job, but not much.  They end up paying taxes but not getting welfare, while those on various welfare programs bring in more than the workers.  Insane, but what govt. program isn't?

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                  MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  This is true in many cases in England and in Sweden, immigrants will get more money than Nationals. Basically they are paid to stay at home or stay in school, with not much hope of ever finding a real job.
                  
                  I agree goverment programs are insane.

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Good information, thanks for commenting.

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      maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What a racist and stupid joke? What about Irish, English people who migrate in the U.S. are they working or are they in the pubs or fornicating like rabbits? I just used your filthy stereotypes! It works well too!

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         maxoxam41posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Or do you want me to find one that is more appropriate to your Italian ancestry, Mr Maio?

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Not much of a hubber then?

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         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Actually the whole thread is a racist and stupid joke full of the usual racist stereotypes.

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why is everybody starting to argue all the time? This is a serious issue for immigrants and nationals alike! I don't think anyone is at fault, except the goverments their system does not work for any side!

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               psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Your initial post kind of started on an argumentative tone.  So it is hardly surprising that it continued the same way. Especially with racist joke added to the mix.

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                  MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No not an argumentative tone, I am speaking the truth.

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               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Then why start stirring things by saying stuff like "they come over here and take all our jobs and live off the dole in mansions"?

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                  MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I am not stirring anything up, this is the truth I am writing I know these people that I am writing about.

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                     John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     If you truly knew the people that you write about you wouldn't write such scaremongering waffle.

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                        MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Your looking for an argument, which you won't get with me.

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                           John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           "As an Englishman paying into a taxation system my whole life. I am entitled 320 english pounds a month! Immigrants get at least 1000 english pounds a month, plus a house and all the bills paid?"
                           
                           And you reckon I'm looking for an argument!
                           
                           OK, backup your claims.

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                              MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              A typical Brit response.

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                                 John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 From another Brit

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                                    MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    LoL ha ha. I am telling the truth John, I am living in the middle of it.

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                                       John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       What! In Sweden!
                                       
                                       If your neighbours are telling you that they receive £1000 plus house plus bills, they are winding you up!

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                                          MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          Write some more Hubs John if you know so much about this topic.
                                          
                                          Are you calling the people I know here in Sweden and back home in England along with myself liar's? It sounds like it?

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                                             John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                             Frankly, yes. I am saying that anybody claiming that all immigrants get £1000 a month plus rent plus all bills paid, they are liars.

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   maxoxam41posted 12 years ago

   Can you be more specific when you point your finger to a segment of the world population? To sustain your argumentation are those "immigrants" part of a legal process of migration? Are they part of the usual brain-drain encouraged by the West?

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7. 0

   The Writers Dogposted 12 years ago

   "Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll p_ss on 'em
   that's what the Statue of Bigotry says"
   
   From 'Dirty Boulevard' by Lou Reed.

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Is that dog smiling?

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         The Writers Dogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No, not in that picture. He has a bit of a beard thing happening :

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Good Boy:-D

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   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Even if the immigration system has some serious flaws, you didn't open with that.  "How do we make immigration work better?" would be constructive; "why are there arabs next door with money", not so much.  And why not include the Australians or Greeks or any other large immigrant group?
   
   You opened by asking why specifically middle eastern people would want to move specifically to the UK. To which I feel that answer should be obvious. They are just like me, they went where they felt they could have a better life. I don;t see how you can blame someone for doing that.  It's only logical.

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      OK how do we make immigration better? When both sides are not happy with the current situation!
      
      You must read the questions properly and read the answers before leaving a comment. Immigration, alcoholism and drug abuse the last 3 questions I have asked are related.
      
      Both the alcholic, drug addict are immigrants and so am I. We all have different levels of support from the goverment. We are all in the same clinic recieving dialysis treatment.
      
      All I am trying to say is, shouldn't the rules and regulations be across the board, becuase we all come from Countries within the European Union!
      
      Some have a better life and some don't, it's a false promise to them. Write some Hubs about it if you have the knowlege, I would like to read them.

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         John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         They are the same.

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            MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No they are not.

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               John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Prove it.

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                  MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't read any news papers nor do I watch any news channels on the TV. You have not read the replies to this question correctly.
                  
                  My immigrant friends back in England will come to your house if you would like, in person with proof to back up my claim made here on HubPages. Also to answer any further questions you may have regarding their current financial situation.
                  
                  This will then give you the perfect opportunity to call them liars directly to them in person.
                  
                  Should this not be satisfactory to you, take a flight from Manchester to Copenhagen then a train across to Sweden. I will personally meet you take you to my bank and show you that I am telling the truth, about my own current financial situation and then you can call me a liar to my face.
                  
                  We can also visit my dialysis clinic and you can question the immigrants here about the different levels of monthly payment each one of them recieves from the Swedish Goverment, perhaps they are lying too?
                  
                  None of this is threatening, if you want the proof come and see it for yourself in person this will be the proof you need.

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   suzettenaplesposted 12 years ago

   Why?  Because the Middle Eastern countries are so corrupt.  The dictatorships were corrupt and the governments replacing them are corrupt.  Hence, the "peasants" don't receive anything.  There is so much turmoil in their home countries, that they are immigrating to find better lives.  They are also coming to the U.S. and we are having our own immigration problems.  Immigration is a world-wide problem at the moment and I don't know exactly what the answer is.  These people have a right to find better lives and immigrate to better countries and those of us living in immigration countries have a right not to be flooded with foreigners.  So, what do we do?

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      John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What do we do?
      Remember that most of us come from immigrant stock and make them welcome. Share in their customs and help them to share in ours.

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         MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         They don't really want to be in foriegn lands!

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      MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Constructive comment thanks.

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    kschangposted 12 years ago

    Middle East may be rich, but "class mobility" there is near zero. Thus, for people in lower rungs, elsewhere offers better opportunities.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Most of the people I know did not want to leave their home Country.

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11. 92

    Susana Sposted 12 years ago

    There's a big difference between refugees/asylum seekers and immigrants. In the UK asylum seekers are not allowed to work. If they're not in a detention centre, which many are, they are given £5 per day and basic accommodation.
    
    http://www.refugee-action.org.uk/inform … yths2.aspx
    
    http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/LeisureAndCul … rsFAQs.htm
    
    Only after an asylum seeker has been given refugee status, after a long, protracted legal process, are they entitled to work and claim benefits.
    
    Asylum seekers have gone through tremendous hardships, often seeing their families tortured, mutilated or killed. Do a google search for refugee stories to educate yourself about why they might decide that fleeing their country is the only choice they have!
    
    Immigration is a whole other topic.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Thank You for a constructive comment Susana S, I do know the difference between the three listed in your answer. don't need to google it or educate myself on this topic. I have seen it with my own eyes up close and personal.

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          Susana Sposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I'm confused then. Your opening on the thread talked about immigrants from the middle east moving to europe for a better life. Then you said:
          
          
          
          So what are we talking about - asylum seekers or immigrants?
          
          Most people coming from the middle east to Europe are asylum seekers which isn't surprising since they are coming from war ravaged countries.
          
          The laws on emigrating to the UK from outside of the EU have changed a lot in the last few years. There's now a points system in place (long over due) so that those emigrating to the UK need to be well educated, be able to support themselves financially, can fill a skills gap or have a sponsor. 
          
          I'd say that there's a big difference between choosing to go live and work in another country because you have the financial ability to do so (immigrants) and asylum seekers who feel they have no choice but to try and find somewhere safe to live.

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    Home Girlposted 12 years ago

    I am very sorry that you, MP, are sick and unable to work.
    I understand your bitterness perfectly. I am sure that any crook in US and UK, and in Canada can swindle government - they do it every day in Canada! They do it, I am sure, in their own countries too. Corrupt government cheats them and they, in turn, cheat their government. But unfortunately there is no perfect system, country, government, etc. If you are sick you cannot win in any country because you do not have strength to fight for your rights. You get very little help because every day thousands of people, crooks including, demand this or that from their government and most persistent gets the most. Ordinary people get tired of problems and go, look for greener places, sometimes they find what they are looking for, sometimes not. There is no simple solution, I think. Every case is different. I am naturalized Canadian. I work and pay my dues. I always remember where I came from and always grateful for what I have - not much though. Sometimes we have hard luck, what can we do?

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       What can we do is correct, thank you for your comment I do appreciate it:)

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    Lindy's Worldposted 12 years ago

    Mp50,
    I hear your angst.  Often times those that are in a country illegally, or even legally often get benefits that they haven't earned.  In the US it happens all the time.  Those who should or need to get a leg up can't because they make too much money, yet can't pay their bills.  Yet, people with no or questionable documentation seem to receive benefits up the whazoo.  Those who are legally receiving support are often hampered by the system.  They want to work, they want off the aid but yet if they work they loose everything.  Personally, I think the whole welfare system should be thrown out.  In order, to receive benefits you must prove you legal status or, if you are receiving benefits and you are illegally in the country you need to show proof that you are trying to right your status or be made to leave, and if you receive benefits you should show that you are working or going to school to learn a trade and be weaned off the aid. The bottom line is the whole system in Europe and the US is corrupt and unbalanced and needs to be overhauled.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Good constructive comment Lindy's World, thrown out and "OVERHAULED" rings so true.
       
       Maybe those guys at "pimp my ride" could do a job on both the European Union and the USA goverment.
       
       I wouldn't want the job of trying to sort out the mess they have GOTTEN us all into.

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    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    Illegal immigration in the UK is pretty rare, for geographical reasons.
    
    But there, as in the US, it seems only non-white immigrants get harassed (speaking as a white immigrant with non-white immigrant friends).

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Sorry illegal immigration in the UK is pretty rare did you say? Don't agree with that at all.
       
       Not the correct information to say only non white immigrants get harassed, from a white man with black men and black women immigrant friends.

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          John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          How often do you read tirades in the Daily Mail about German or American workers coming to the UK and stealing all our jobs whilst living in the lap of state provided luxury?

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    LeanManposted 12 years ago

    You mention the Middle East as a source of immigrants for the Uk, while I have not been to all countries in the middle east by a long way I have been to some and spent around 4 years in Saudi Arabia. There is a huge difference in Saudi and the other countries between those that have and those that do not, huge difference. In Saudi there are slum areas that I would never dare to walk into and people begging on the streets, men, women and disabled people alike. The answer as far as the government is concerned is to arrest them and remove them to less wealthy areas where they will not be seen!
    The government want to see more Saudis employed internally but if many businesses can bring in expat workers from India, the Philippines and other countries and pay them just a few hundred dollars per month there is no incentive to hire local workers for more money. So a huge number of locals are unemployed and cannot find well paid work! They are now trying to turn this around by limiting the number of expats a company can hire and refusing to renew visas if a company does not hire the required proportion of locals.
    However that being said I can fully understand why some would want to come to the UK to work, not just for the work but for a completely different way of life!
    
    As to whether they come legally or illegally to the UK and other parts of Europe; they do both, I know people from many countries that work legally in the UK and even have their own businesses. I also know many who come there illegally but still manage to get themselves housed and claim benefits! Immigration is out of control totally..
    
    I am now an Immigrant, I now live in the Philippines, I know of only a handful of other non-locals within 20 miles of where I live and I am sure I have added a huge amount to the local economy unlike many immigrants back home in the UK.

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    Lady_Eposted 12 years ago

    I have been reflecting about this issue for quite a few weeks and even told a friend that it's only a matter of time before tension builds and "something" happens because a lot of people share your thoughts - some don't voice it out, but I know a lot of people feel deep resentment about it and I dread to see the day when their tension reaches its peak because - even the London Riots (last year) were not dealt with adequately.
    
    Immigrants are not just from the Middle East. Some immigrants come to study, some come to work and return to their country, some because their is political unrest in their country and some because their Leaders are so corrupt, money is not circulating. (all hoarded in swiss accounts abroad)
    
    Having said/written all that, you will note that PM Cameron is making drastical cuts on benefits, which is starting to deal with the situation, but do remember there are some advantages to having Immigrants in a Country. Not all are receiving Government Benefits.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Good post well written and thought out, I also think a lot of people on both side of the argument are very tense. I don't think its the fault of Nationals or the Immigrants.
       
       I do think the blame should be on the Goverments of not just Britain, many other Countries are facing the same uncertainty and chaos among their own people and immigrants from other Lands.
       
       The growing Swiss bank accounts and other hoarded items, like property, boats, cars etc! By the people in power is growing at an alarming rate, I agree not all immigrants are recieving the correct benefits to suit their situation.
       
       I personally don't think any Country with non tax paying immigrants has any advantage, most illeagal immigrants and there many more than most people think there are, take all the money they earn back to their home land no products are bought in the Country they have illeagally immigrated to.
       
       Just my input, thanks for your comment.

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          Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Ehhh no... facts are facts they overall contribute and that just the illeagl ones as for the legal ones well they do a lot more.

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             MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I disagree facts are written on paper by the people in charge of them, do you trust your Goverment?

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                Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I allways trust the taxman to know his figures allways. Getting a little too conspiracy theory in here though. Also John is right that's just income tax people here still have to buy stuff etc etc all of which incurs tax.

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                   MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Not a conspiracy theory just the plain old truth, trust the tax man? LMAO if no money is kept in the Country how can people pay tax on goods? Thanks for your comment, can't stop laughing about the tax man joke!

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                      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      In all seriousness thogh I doubt the department of treasury is falsifying figures, I don't particularly trust a government and I grew up with a government that kidnapped people in the night and killed them (in Argentina) BUT I don't see the proportional benefit to them considering what the discovery of such a fact would do to them.

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    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    What about this bunch of chancers then?
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … uters.html
    
    How many more Romanians are they going to allow into Britain? Seems they all become Big Issue sellers and there isn't a homeless person amongst them.
    
    Meanwhile, Britain's genuinely homeless are being booted out of their Big Issue jobs!
    
    I'm never buying another copy.
    
    I know a lot of Romanians here is Spain and nicer people you couldn't meet. Its the gypsies amongst them that are the thieves and vagabonds, and they all seem to have gone to Britain.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Don't read any paper's, I would have to agree that many Gypsies have arrived in Britain. Thanks for the comment.

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    Peelander Gallyposted 12 years ago

    Gypsies are probably given more unfair government concessions in Romania than they are as immigrants in your country; Romanians probably hate them more than you do, too.

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       MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I don't hate Gypsies and "some" of them are very wealthy people. Welcome to HubPages and thanks for your input.

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          Peelander Gallyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks, but I was actually replying to IzzyM. I can see why the former Eastern Bloc states (not to mention Russia, which will never really be part of Europe) are like the annoying little brothers of the Western European nations and have never really fit in, and while I can't comment on the economic woes of the UK, I'm just saying that gypsies fall into their own class entirely.

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             MP50posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I do apologize to you and Izzy for answering at the wrong time.

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    dmopposted 12 years ago

    I think the problem in the richer countries is that a handful of individuals hold all that wealth, and make sure that it is nearly impossible for anyone else to get any of it. I know that is one of our main problems here in the US. As to why immagrants are treated better than nationals is beyond me.

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    GingerBellposted 12 years ago

    I think people immigrate to the western for freedom. The mid east may have all the money but there is no freedom there at all. Women are treated worse than animals, men are also brutalized for minor things. In the western world you can be gay without being hanged or executed by firing squad. Women can work and dress half nude without being raped. Yes, they are some immigrants that take advantage of the loopholes in the system but most immigrants desire freedom from what we take for granted which is why they come here. So it's pointless to blame them for the economic woes we are facing because we would still be facing these problems without immigrants. Good governance is what is needed if we are all to live fair lives.

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