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Oh Grand and Glorious Cuba, Crown Jewel of Socialist Utopias!

  1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago

    Cuba�s totalitarian regime controls all aspects of life through the Communist Party (CP) and its affiliated mass organizations, the government bureaucracy and the Department of State Security. The latter is tasked with monitoring, infiltrating and tormenting the country�s beleaguered human rights community. The government continues to commit serious abuses, and denies citizens the right to change their government.

    The government incarcerates people for their peaceful political beliefs or activities. The total number of political prisoners and detainees is unknown, because the government does not disclose such information and keeps its prisons off-limits to human rights organizations. As of July 1, 2006, at least 316 Cubans were being held behind bars for political crimes, according to the independent Cuban Commission for Human Rights and National Reconciliation.

    The government places severe limitations on freedom of speech and press. Reporters Without Borders calls Cuba the world�s second biggest jailer of journalists. The constitution provides for freedom of speech and press insofar as they "conform to the aims of a socialist society." The government considers the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and foreign mainstream magazines and newspapers to be enemy propaganda. Access to the Internet is strictly controlled and given only to those deemed ideologically trustworthy.

    Freedom of assembly is not a right in today�s Cuba. The law punishes any unauthorized assembly of more than three persons. The government also restricts freedom of movement and prevents some citizens from emigrating because of their political views. Cubans need explicit "exit permission" from their government to leave their country, and many people are effectively held hostage by the Cuban government, despite the fact that they have received travel documents issued by other countries.

    The government does not tolerate dissent. It targets dissenters by directing militants from the CP, the Communist Youth League, Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, the Federation of Cuban Women, the Association of Veterans of the Cuban Revolution, and other groups to stage a public protest against the dissenter, usually in front of his/her house. These protests, called "acts of repudiation," involve the shouting of insults and the occasional use of violence. The events generate intense fear and are aimed at ostracizing and intimidating those who question the government�s policies.

    Prison conditions are harsh and life-threatening. Although physical torture is rare, cruel treatment of prisoners � particularly political prisoners and detainees � is common. Prison authorities frequently beat, neglect, isolate and deny medical treatment to inmates. Authorities often deny family visits, adequate nutrition, exposure to sunshine, and pay for work. Overcrowding is rife. Inmates friendly with prison guards often receive preferential treatment. This leads to abuse, whereby connected inmates assault others with impunity. Desperation inside the country�s estimated 200 prisons and work camps is at high levels and suicides and acts of self-mutilation occur. Thousands of Cubans are currently imprisoned for "dangerousness," in the absence of any crime.

    Worker rights are largely denied. The law does not allow Cuban workers to form and join unions of their choice. The government-approved unions do not act as trade unions, promote worker rights or protect the right to strike; rather, they are geared toward ensuring that production goals are met. Some workers lose their jobs because of their political beliefs. Salaries are not high enough to meet food and clothing costs; consequently, many Cubans are forced into small-scale embezzlement or pilfering from their employers.

    1. American View profile image61
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Striped,

      Good information that no one can disagree with. If I can make a suggestion, I would delete this thread and turn what you wrote here into a hub. It would make a good hub.

      1. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I can disagree with it ! I is a tissue of lies.

        1. American View profile image61
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Cite the source to dispute it

          1. Evan G Rogers profile image83
            Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jandee didn't actually refute it.

            If you read what she said, she can only refute it because she is a tissue of lies.

            Albeit her grammar was poor.

    2. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No one is saying Cuba is the perfect country and I am not a huge fan of their civil rights though they are not as bad as they are made to sound (having lived there for 6 years.) But here are the facts: Since the revolution Cuba has gone up 63 places in the global GDP per-capita comparison. Cuba now has the best GINI index in the world, meaning their economic equality is the best in the world. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than the US. Cuba has absolute free healthcare. Cuba has absolute free Education including university/college. Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the US (significantly). Cuban socialists removed a fascist government that killed 30 000 of it's own citizens the year before the revolution. Cuba is now a true independent state rather than an american puppet state as it was before the revolution. All this is done on less than one eighth of the GDP per capita of the US can you imagine what could be accomplished with eight times their money? Can you imagine what would have been acomplished without the US embargo?

      Really you provided the answer to your own question in the title SOCIALIST jewel yes and socialism is a purely economic ideology, we don't approve of their human rights abuses but we do use Cuba as evidence that socialist economies can thrive and succeed and it is that though our ideal state I think would not engage in such human rights abuses.

      1. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Job done! Good on yer!!!!!!!!!!!

      2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
        StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Josac, don't you just hate it when people catch you out on your lies? I realize that's not going to stop you from spreading them, I just wanted to know.

        "Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the US (significantly)"

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ality_rate

        Cuba: 6.95 per 1000 recorded births.
        USA:  7.07 per. The very next nation on the list down from Cuber, in fact.

        THEN we have look at how America and Cuba determine a "live" birth.

        Cuba does not register births under 1000g. In fact, this is precisely what the World Health Organization itself recommends. For official record keeping purposes, only live births of greater than 1,000g should be included. Nor does Cuba count a baby as "alive" if it dies within the first 24 hours of birth.

        The United States has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive, in the world. The United States is also one of only a handful countries which keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality — the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

        In the United States, if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive — and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent — that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

        In many countries, however, (including Glorious Cuba) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics.

        So not only are you lying about the statistics, the statistics you're lying about are lies, themselves. Created by a socialist agenda which uses Hate for America as its century old rallying cry.

        Sorry, my little communist acquaintance. Your side has a history of loss and failure, because there will always be men who see through ever smoke and mirrors trick your kind tries to pull.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Funny, the site you cite actually gives Cuba as 5.82 and the US as 6.26, and whilst not wishing to appear boastful, the UK 4.85!

          1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
            StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You didn't look at the final column, John. The final aggregate of the last three periods.

            And once more, you've failed to read everything I wrote. England doesn't count babies born alive the way America does. Most of Europe is on the "less than 1000 grams, less than 24 hours old, less than 30 cm long and it was a dead baby" criteria. England included.

            1. American View profile image61
              American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              He read it, just will not admit it. Loves to twist the facts and only use half of them

        2. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          SO you took one of my comments a tiny part of my statement said it was slightly less true than I was presenting then you went on to state a difference in the stats but showed no way to prove any difference (such as stats with with this difference removed)very well made point tongue

          Now according to the World Bank the closest nation to Cuba in regards to GDP per capita is Azerbaijan in Azerbaijan the average infant mortality rate is 50 per 1000 compared to less than 7 in Cuba...

          None of this goes any way towards proving my statement wrong.

    3. 0
      Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Most socialists will tell you Cuba isn't Socialist.  There are production quotas set by the government, who in essence acts like the executive of a corporation, and inequality of incomes scattered throughout.  They also tend to repress free speech.  State capitalism is a better characterization.  Power is centralized at the top.

      1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
        StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Most socialists will tell you the German Workers National Socialist (NAZI) Party wasn't Socialist, either.

        I've stopped believe what the enemy tells me.

        1. 0
          Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You can read what socialists actually write, or you can crawl in a hole and stick your fingers in your ears and believe what you want.  I can't control you, but having read a little bit about socialism, Cuba, Russia, nor Germany was socialist.  It's more like state capitalism, without civil rights, such as freedom of speech or religion.

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I wouldn't bother some people don't have the brains to differentiate between fascism and socialism or left and right, let alone the major differences between communism and socialism. They just aren't educated enough, it's a lost cause especially since their minds are closed around that ignorance.

            1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
              WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm your Huckleberry! I am educated. They both suck!

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                See you can't differentiate between them tongue

              2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Jos? If my educators are all of a particular bent, and require that I parrot their political views or I don't get the grades, have I been Educated, or Indoctrinated?

                I've a respectable number of sheepskins littering my walls, and Real World experiences you're not even qualified to guess at. When I call you a Communist, it isn't because you have it anywhere on your profile, or that I'm just guessing so as to make a point. Nor is it a title I bandy about with any sort of abandon.

                Your Words define you, Jos. Your willingness to denigrate and impugn the intellect or education of anyone who challenges you, as a knee-jerk, speaks to your pretentious pomposity. A quality invariably found in the Elitist Mentality of the deeply indoctrinated.

                I mean, how could ANYONE, whose opinions differ from your own, have the slightest CLUE as to the subtle nuances involved in the intricacies of the Politics of Meaning?

                Call yourself what you want, Josak. That won't change the facts. Nor will it make your arguments any more valid.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I have no issue with people who believe different things on the political spectrum, people who are factually incorrect and ignorant are another thing entirely, I do believe in the responsibility of a man to educate himself on a subject before he decides to discuss it, unfortunately you have not done so, it's not my side has a monopoly on good education or anything it's simply that you lack it.

                  You seem to believe the UK is socialist though it has a conservative government.

                  You did not understand the force of taxation for force in potentia, basic stuff in the study of economy and politics.

                  You do not understand the difference between fascism and socialism (which people who do know about politics will tell you are actually on almost opposite ends of the left right political spectrum).

                  You are obviously unaware of the multiple axis political spectrum.

                  So no it's not just me or my side that can understand the nuances of politics it's just that unfortunately you don't. As for being a communist nope I am a socialist but of course you are probably pretty oblivious to the difference.

                2. jandee profile image46
                  jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Have you the faintest idea what it is to be a communist ? Do you think it's like the scouts? It is an upward climb whereby people with left-wing persuasions become educated through their own reasoning and see the light! See the injustices of this society and see what it is to be a Socialist then hopefully aspire to something much higher.

                  1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Higher like this?

                    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6345774_f248.jpg

      2. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        NO........

      3. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And how many Socialists do you know ! Or! Is that just your considered opinion??

    4. melbel profile image93
      melbelposted 4 years ago in reply to this
      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It'll either be totally ignored or written off as a communist attention grabbing stunt!

    5. mio cid profile image66
      mio cidposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I love when conservatives lament the fact that cubans are not allowed to unionize while here in the US labor unions are blamed for every evil under the sun and there's no better victory for a conservative than breaking a union.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I just love the double standards all round.

      2. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I know right tongue

  2. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 4 years ago

    Just substitute America for Cuba and it makes about the same amount of sense!

    By the way, I see that you did not credit the source of the article you C&Pd, why not?

    1. American View profile image61
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this
    2. 0
      klarawieckposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      John, seriously? How can you compare!

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Because I see plenty of human rights abuses in the US, Gitmo seems highly appropriate, especially as it is in the much criticised Cuba!

        1. American View profile image61
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Because I see plenty of human rights abuses in the US"

          Tell us about one you Personally saw while you were here in the US.

        2. 0
          klarawieckposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey John, no doubt that the US is a work in progress. But Cuba, on the other hand, is destruction in progress. I should know this. I was born and raised there... sixteen years there/twenty years in the US. I still have family there. There is no way to compare these two countries. The US might violate human rights but in Cuba there are NO human rights at all. There is a big difference.

          1. jandee profile image46
            jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They are lucky you left !!

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Your're beating a dead horse. Nobody but nobody is defending Cuba's economic and political system. Recently it's been improving as Fidel lets go. There's been a bit of creeping free enterprise lately from what I've been reading. The time is long overdue for the U.S. to end the embargo and establish cordial relations with Cuba. This has been obvious for a long time. Unfortunately, the problem is Florida politics where nobody in either party wants to endure the wrath of Cuban expatriate anti-Castro fanatics. Of course many of them have good reason to hate Castro. But the current situation isn't in the interest of the U.S. or Cuba. We have diplomatic and trade relations with many countries that are much worse than Cuba.

              It should be recognized, moreover, that Cuba was not a democratic paradise under Batista where prostitution was rampant and gambling was controlled by the Mafia and Batista. Corruption ruled Cuba under Battista, and the law was a mad dog that bit only the poor. (Old Spanish expression: "La ley es un perro rabioso que no muerde sino los campesinos."

              1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                There you go Ralph. That's it in a nut shell. The ex-patriot Cubans are seriously "anti". There are those who believe that Castro had a hand in Kennedy's assasination, and they may be right for as much as we really know. They can have their bias. Castro is on the way out and Cuba will welcome them back.

                It is time. We should do the responsible thing and not wait for Fidel to die before we make inroads on behalf of the people who are innocent of anything at all.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I am very skeptical he had anything to do with the assassination but even if he did that's no reason to hold a grudge is it?  It's well on record that Kennedy tried hundreds if not thousands of times to assassinate Castro (there's even a book listing the ways they tried). Castro has his brother coming in and then a long line of party faithful waiting on the wings, I don't think ex-patriots will we welcomed any time soon besides many ex-patriots are very very bad people which is why some of them left in the first place, I am not sure it would be good for Cuba to take them back.

              2. 0
                klarawieckposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Cuba was under a tyrant before Castro, and even though there was a lot of poverty, the people still had a way to make an honest salary and bring food to the table. But after all these years of having no way out (except to flee if you have that opportunity) we're left with a country that has absolutely no morals and doesn't understand what it means to hold a job and work to earn your money. As you go through customs in the Cuban airport, the inspectors ask for a tip (not implying, but literally asking) and so does everyone else you encounter while visiting.
                Prostitution is a way of life, and it includes minors and young men - whole families that are in it for the money - and what makes it worst is that what used to be taboo it's now seen as a normal thing. Everything is sold through sex. A friend of mine that just came back from Havana a week ago told me that he was walking through a small market where people were selling crafts and such for tourists, and a young female street vendor whow was trying to sell old furniture was singing: "Table, Chairs, Sofa for sale! If you buy it all I add the bed for free!" Seriously! That's what communism has done for Cuba and the embargo (blocked or opened) won't make a difference because the items are only going to be consumed by Castro's people and available to tourists. The only way the Cuban people will get to see anything imported from foreign countries is through prostitution.

  3. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 4 years ago

    Never mind, it wasn't hard to find.

    "Cuba: Foreign Policy & Government Guide, Volume 1
    By USA International Business Publications"

    Nice none partisan publication, I'll be bound.

    1. WriteAngled profile image92
      WriteAngledposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LOL!

      I assume that neither the original writer of the rant, nor the person plagiarising it for this forum, have ever visited Cuba.

      I've been there three times, and am planning to go back and stay with friends in Santiago de Cuba, with whom I stayed part of the last time I was there.

      My experience has been vastly different. It includes one trip where a group of us sung in the streets in various towns around Cuba, spontaneously and without having asked permission from anyone. As a result, we had the opportunity to talk with ordinary people we met like that, as well as with the students, hospital workers, teachers and others we had arranged to meet with and sing for in advance of going out there. I found about 99% or more of the people we spoke to were very aware of what was going on in their country, and just who was to blame.

      1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
        StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Did you get a tour of any prisons, Write?

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Have you ever toured any US prisons?

          1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
            StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6309905_f248.jpg

            Years ago, as part of an outreach program sponsored by my home church in Seattle, I visited a number of WA. State Institutions to teach inmates written communications skills. The inmates were getting better healthcare than I was.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That is more a condemnation of the society that you live in than of the prison service, which incidentally locks up more of the population than any other country in the World!

              1. American View profile image61
                American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And perhaps they should just let criminals walk the street.

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Does it not concern you that your society has more criminals per head of population than anywhere else in the world?

                  1. American View profile image61
                    American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No, what concerns me is that other societies around the world do not lock up the criminals they have. They let them run loose. But I guess that does not happen, in your eyes only the US has criminals.

            2. jandee profile image46
              jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              How sad! supposed to be helping but just resentful,

              1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ah jandee. Sometimes you're so cute, I just want to pinch you.

                The sad part here is how you chose to interpret my tone. There is no resentment in my statement. Just the observation that the prisoners were being treated so well that they had better healthcare than I had for myself, at the time.

                1. jandee profile image46
                  jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Careful ! Bite..............

                  1. jandee profile image46
                    jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Careful ! I Bite and not a bit 'Cute'................

    2. American View profile image61
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Write,

      I am pleased you had a great time in Cuba and plan to go back. But to deny what occurs there is like to deny we have slums in this country. While I have not been there I am good friends with someone who grew up there. He has a much different story than the one you post. The actor Andy Garcia talked openly about the actions of the army and police he saw first hand. I some how think the residents in Miami that came from Cuba, those that escaped political persecution would think that Cuba is a great place to live.

    3. American View profile image61
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      John,

      Hmmm, I ran a google search on the article you cite and here is what I got:

      " Your search - "Cuba: Foreign Policy & Government Guide, Volume 1By USA International Business ... - did not match any documents.

      Could just be a google thing, but what I found interesting was you did not cite the report from Human Rights Watch.

      http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2009/cuba-0

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Just to provide a bit of balance

        http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/ … ochure.pdf

        "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

        I found the source quickly and easily just by copying a section of the text into Google and it came up as the first result. For ease, the section of text I googled was
        "The government incarcerates people for their peaceful political beliefs or activities. The total number of political prisoners and detainees is unknown,"

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          In that I myself did the C&P, in response to a few of the DemoLibtard comments I'd read concerning the wondrous life and superior Healthcare available in the Island Paradise known a Cuber, please allow me to post the source I pulled from.

          Please forgive me that the Preview had none of the code errors the ultimate posting is filled with.
          http://conservapedia.com/Cuba

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            LOL, my browser put up a message to say that the site was not safe!

            Still you really would expect a conservative site to have lots of good things to say about socialism . . .wouldn't you?

            1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
              StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Given the propensity of Left leaning "journalists" being spat out by our liberal centers of higher indoctrination, it is refreshing to find a Right leaning source for your information.

              Or don't you think a balance to the untold thousands of liberal websites is Fair?

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But what is going to be fair from a site ideologically opposed to socialism?
                You wouldn't expect a socialist site to sing the praises of capitalism would you?

        2. American View profile image61
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Just to provide a bit of balance"

          Yet you did not provide the link to your claim

          Cuba: Foreign Policy & Government Guide, Volume 1By USA International Business

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I told you how I found it!

            1. American View profile image61
              American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And yet is does not exist. I put the sentence in you claim you used, which I find interesting as how you would know what sentence is in a report to search when you have not read it yet, and it has one result, It takes you back to this thread so the report must not exist.

              Here is what google shows, This is a copy and paste of the search result.  This is the only result that it shows.

              Did you mean: Cuban: Foreign Policy & Government Guide, Volume 1 By USA International Business 
              Search Results
              Oh Grand and Glorious Cuba, Crown Jewel of Socialist Utopias!
              hubpages.com › All Forums › Politics and Social Issues
              Your search - "Cuba: Foreign Policy & Government Guide, Volume 1By USA International Business ...
              You visited this page on 3/11/12.

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I picked a sentence at random and it came up with

                http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=i5Ph … mp;f=false

                I had actually read it in the OP, a copy and paste job.

                1. American View profile image61
                  American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So this article is just what Striped posted, What is your issue? The fact it is accurate about Cuba?

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    No, the fact that it comes from a biased source, or doesn't that bother you at all?

        3. jandee profile image46
          jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          John you have just ruined my night! I went to the site  and I feel sick.
          Years ago I read a lot about the 'Soledad Brothers' and thought that was times-past. It's just as bad now ,worse I think. They dare to publicly show and brag what they do to their own youth

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Also worth noting that Cuba has not a single person on death row and has not executed anyone is over 8 years compared to the US...

            1. lovemychris profile image80
              lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "If this man has no health insurance, should we just let him die?"....Yeah!! YAY!! Wooop Woop

            2. American View profile image61
              American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Of course not, once found guilty they are executed, no need for death row, not to mention those killed without trials

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nope, Cuba has a full trial system and death row and in the last several decades has executed fewer people per capita than the US, none for political crimes. There have been only 500 executions is Cuba in 50 years only 4 in the last ten years in comparison the US executed 46 just in 2010.

            3. StripedCrunchy profile image59
              StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Only four they let the International Press know about, you mean.

              Or do you feel that a Country committing atrocities, who also wants to do business with the U.S. once more, is going to admit to it?

              Obama is killing American citizens abroad without pause. Isn't he YOUR guy, my Lock-step Liberal friends?

  4. Uninvited Writer profile image84
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    Anyone can write for that site, it's just like Wikipedia and taken as seriously...

    http://conservapedia.com

    You may as well have copied and pasted an email like Oly does.

    And I'm surprised they haven't been sued by Wikipedia for stealing their design.

    " USERS RELY ON INFORMATION HERE ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. Conservapedia and its editors, contributors, sponsors, affiliates or anyone associated in any way with this project cannot guarantee the validity of any information found here, and shall not be responsible or liable in any way for any inaccurate or libelous information found here. Content of any given article may have been vandalized or modified by someone who lacks knowledge."

    And that article was copied from a book so it is plagiarized on that site.

    I don't doubt the people of Cuba are controlled and not as free as in the US...there is no need for propaganda on either side. They are still freer than they were under the previous government. But it does go to show you that having the same government or party in rule for too long is a negative.

  5. maxoxam41 profile image80
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    Once again, it is easy to talk about a country without ever stepping a foot on its land! In spite of many lacks and scarcity, people eat everyday, have a free education, free health care (what we don't for a Western superpower). The ones who complain(ed) are/were probably the ones who benefited of privileges before the revolution.
    What we easily forget is that we were the ones who triggered the suffocation of the Cuban economy (U.S. embargo)!
    We always refer to our country as the epitome of liberty (no pluralism in the legislative chambers). The government is controlled by the corporations when it comes to legislate. Our constitutional rights are pieced apart and so on...

    1. WriteAngled profile image92
      WriteAngledposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As many +1 and +100s as it is possible to give!

      Thank you, sir!

      1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
        StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This from the CIA World Factbook:

        "The Treaty of Paris established Cuban independence from the US in 1902 after which the island experienced a string of governments mostly dominated by the military and corrupt politicians. Fidel CASTRO led a rebel army to victory in 1959; his iron rule held the subsequent regime together for nearly five decades. He stepped down as president in February 2008 in favor of his younger brother Raul CASTRO.

        Cuba's Communist revolution, with Soviet support, was exported throughout Latin America and Africa during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The country faced a severe economic downturn in 1990 following the withdrawal of former Soviet subsidies worth $4 billion to $6 billion annually.

        Cuba at times portrays the US embargo, in place since 1961, as the source if its difficulties. Illicit migration to the US - using homemade rafts, alien smugglers, air flights, or via the southwest border - is a continuing problem. The US Coast Guard intercepted 1,000 individuals attempting to cross the Straits of Florida in fiscal year 2011."

        Yup. Life in Cuber is just SO scrumpdillyishous that people from all over the World are clamoring to get in there where the healthcare is awesome, the economy is racing and Brotherly Love is the unspoken law of the land.

        Or do I maybe have that backwards?

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That would be all the displaced capitalists then!
          By the way, it doesn't actually say which way the 1000 individuals where going smile

          1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
            StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            ~chuckles~ John. You're smarter than that.

            Not to worry, though. Communism/Socialism won't have a chance to bury England, if Islam gets its way and you adopt Sharia.

            So, you're pretty safe, on that note.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              But we have included Sharia law in our legal system but only where it doesn't conflict with English law. Seems to work out OK, as does Beth Din!

              BTW the capitalists have their claws well and truly embedded in the UK

              1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes Indeed. It is absolutely critical that Muslim men can marry infants, consummate with 9 year olds, beat their wives with impunity and kill their daughters with Honor.

                Way to go, England!

                1. lovemychris profile image80
                  lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this
                  1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    New York will put the Rabbi on trial, find him guilty and toss his stupid ass in prison.

                    Meanwhile, Islamic Female Genitalia Mutilation is now just ducky in jolly ol' England.

                    You're not seeing the difference, Shalob?

                2. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Can't you actually read!!

                  Or do you fail to understand "when it does not conflict with English Law" as well?

                  1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh yeah. Saw that.

                    I'm guessing you're going to ignore the unwritten law of Incrementalism, and just HOPE they don't push for further and further watering down of British law.

                    Best of luck with that, John.

                  2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Evidently the Muslims in England didn't get that memo, John.

                    Don't say I didn't try to warn ya. Then again, by some of the posts you put up, I can tell you barely half read anything posted which might disagree with your lock-step liberal mindset.

                    Running around with your fingers in your ears yelling "NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" must get tiresome, after a while.

      2. American View profile image61
        American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        MAX

        It is easy to talk about a nursing home you have not been in, yet it does not mean there is not horrible issues going on there. That is a poor argument for Cuba. Perhaps you and others forget all the US companies that were lived up to invest in Cuba. The communist revelation and the dictator taking over the country took care of that.

        And let's not talk about why the US embargo happened. Besides we could not hurt Cuba could we, after all they had Russia sending them everything they needed right?

        Lets see, they cannot get medical care to all their people, yet Chavez went to Cuba to be treated for Cancer. Hmm. I guess the tens of thousands who fled Cuba and came here all lied and made up the stories of their persecution.

        1. jandee profile image46
          jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well!!!???

    2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Prior to the Revolution, Cuba had a higher standard of living in 1958 than half of Europe, a larger middle class than Switzerland, a more highly unionized work force than the U.S., more doctors and dentists per capita than Great Britain, more cars and televisions per capita than Canada or Germany and was inundated with immigrants.

      Cuba kills or jails people who try to leave it. When a group of people tried to leave in 1994, a Cuban navy ship rammed their boat and shot water cannons at survivors, drowning 43 people.

      THIS you call enlightenment and freedom?

      Cuba's Communist Party is the only legal party, and officially sanctioned candidates run unopposed. Why would ANYONE interested in Human Rights have DICK to do with a dictatorship which has no problem killing its own civilians wholesale?

  6. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    Prior to the revolution Cuba was run by the mafia and US corporations, was a casino, and had some of the highest prostitution rates in the western world.

  7. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago

    It has been argued by some that short-sighted U.S. policy pushed Cuba into it's relationship with the Soviet Union. However, it probably didn't take much pushing on Fidel to get him to align with the USSR which heavily subsidized the Cuban economy for many years. The time is overdue to end the U.S. embargo and establish a cordial, mutually beneficial relationship with Cuba.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do we allow them to continue with their gross Human Rights violations, or demand they open up to Human Rights organizations and end the slavery, first?

      Before lifting the Embargo, that is.

      Cuban cigars smoked in Canada had an excellent flavor, if memory serves.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Do we allow the US to continue with its gross human rights violations?

        1. American View profile image61
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Do we allow the UK to continue with its gross human rights violations?

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Unfortunately, yes.

      2. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Oh Yes! I see! you mean the murder of babies in Afghanistan yesterday!!
        How democratic.

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well, had that soldier been shouting Allouah ach-bar! (sic) we would know for sure it wasn't a Religiously motivated act of terrorism.

          But, since the soldier was American, we know it was Capitalism that made him do it.

          We also know NOTHING bad ever happens to children in Afghanistan, by the natives, their husbands, or their families themselves.

          Then again:
          http://youtu.be/Wqk5n7odatc

          1. lovemychris profile image80
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I disagree...

            I read a very disturbing article that the US military was becoming very far right Christian....and if you don't follow: you are persona non grata.

            Also read about a disturbing number of rapes...gang rapes that occur there.

            I think it's our responsibilty to take care of the rot on our end, not simply demonize the other side.

            1. jandee profile image46
              jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You sound a very just man,
              best from jandee

          2. jandee profile image46
            jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            And so you are pleased ! I see.......

      3. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Do we allow them to continue their gross human rights violations?"

        Well we have diplomatic and trade relations with quite a few other countries that have considerably more heinous human rights violations than Cuba. Maybe we could work out a deal under which Cuba AND the United States would put a stop to their own human rights violations including ending extra judicial assassinations of citizens, Texas's habit of railroading innocent people to the electric chair, Joe Arpaio's harassment of legal and undocumented immigrants and so forth.

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          ~snorts, then rolls on the floor in peals of laughter~

          "Legal and Undocumented Immigrants" is it? 

          LOLOL Ralphie, you are a hoot!

        2. American View profile image61
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Texas railroading, please.

  8. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    What human rights violations? Is that like 12.4 million American children are living in food insecure households?

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Golly, lets ask a man jailed in Cuba for Political Dissent, who needed to come to AMERICA, leaving the Bestest Healthcare System in the World for HEALTH REASONS, how he feels about his Benevolent Communist Country.

      http://youtu.be/Ajs3A_hcvdI

      And spare me your pathetic liberal pablum about "food insecurity" numbers and "children." America is the land of Food-stamps, WIC, 3 free school meals a day and church sponsored free food banks.

      You want to stop the starvation? DONATE SOME OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL MONEY TO YOUR LOCAL CHURCH, ya greedy selfish liberal whiners.

      I am sick to death of every bleeding-heart whiny Leftist greedy lazy pig SWEARING that whatever government program they're angling for is "for the children." Particularly when the definition of a Child is now a 26 year old!

      1. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Don't like your racist terminology.

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Socialists are a race? Or is "greedy selfish bleeding heart whiny Leftist pig" the racial slur, here? Well, it is rather an insult to pigs. Pigs are a race.

          Actually, I mentioned WIC. Wouldn't that make me more a misogynist
          than a racist? I mean, in your "label people who disagree with you a bad name so they will seem less genuine" mindset, jandee.

          1. jandee profile image46
            jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You don't even realise what you said.

            1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
              StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Enlighten me as to the raaaacist element in my rant, Oh easily offended one.

              Here's a joke for ya, American View:

              What do you call a Conservative winning an argument with a liberal?

              RAAACIST!
              Duh.

            2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
              StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Come on jandee! You were gonna show the ol' Crunchy where he was writing racism! I am all kindsa pins & needles, awaiting your enlightenment with baited breath.

              After which you can explain how the 2nd Amendment isn't about how the Right to Bare Arms Shall Not Be Infringed, and the privacy clause means it's OK to kill unborn babies.

              1. jandee profile image46
                jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Okay .olt!
                There is little doubt that the words associated with Golliwog----------------
                Golly,Golli,Wog,and Golliwog itself are used as racial slurs......

                1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                  StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Two things, jandee:

                  A. I've never ever in my life heard "Golliwog" or any variation thereof, to be used as a racial slur. Nor am I now aware of which race it might apply to, based on your post. I guess I didn't grow up in as racist a home as I thought. Or... YOU thought.

                  B. I used the term "golly" in the same way I might have said gosh, shucks, well howdy or gee whiz. A statement of bewilderment, as might be expressed by someone who desired not to use profanity. NOT as a noun.

                  Is there a "nice" word you can teach me which describes someone who leaps to the worst assumption possible, in an effort to be offended, so they can claim victim status at all times, dear jandee?

                  The only ones that come to my mind, are ones I don't use in front of children.

              2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I think its the Muslim women who don't have a right to bare their arms.

          2. American View profile image61
            American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Wonder how she feels about the statements that come from the left. She needs to read my article on it

  9. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    Right-wing redneck hillbilly trailer trash.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Clinging proudly to my Guns and Bible. Bitterly disputing every attempt to take either from me. OR from my Countrymen.

      So, you watched that video, did ya?

      1. jandee profile image46
        jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Your gun can't harm John Lennon  anymore

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nor do fish need bicycles. And if so, why not?

          Jandee? You GO girl!

          With intellectual giantesses like yourself defining the Liberal Agenda, America's future is secure.

  10. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Is "Shalob" a personal attack?

    1. American View profile image61
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LMC

      I guess it depends on how someone takes it. Either it was meant as an insult or your cannot spell.

      Hell, I was told I attacked someone for telling them to quit whining and was tossed for a week. So your guess is as good as mine LMC

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        How you like that? Insulted in a foreign language....

        well, I never! Thurston, get me a drink!

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not a foreign language. A Tolkien reference.

          1. lovemychris profile image80
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh OK! I used one too...Frodo! was that the little Gremlin who stole the ring and was hoarding it for himself?

            1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
              StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Frodo was the guy who inherited the ring, and who ultimately was responsible for its destruction. Frodo would be Capitalism: Stabbed, harried, forced to carry a burden, the destruction of which meant the salvation of the world. Socialism/Communism would be the Ring.

              I might be Sam in this analogy. The simple, honest gardener cum bodyguard, who carried Frodo when he could not walk for himself. It was Sam dealt Shalob a near mortal wound, defending Frodo.

              Shalob? You occasionally, accidentally, stumble into wit.

              1. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Nah..I think that analogy is all wrong. I think they were fighting greedy villians...and we all know greed is numero uno quality to possess for success in Capitalism.

                I rather like the analogy that no one does it on their own...and when in trouble, there is help there for you.

                1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                  StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And yet, ultimately, the entire fate of the future rested on ONE MAN'S shoulders. Frodo. The "fellowship" barely made it past the first book. Boromir tried to take what what not his, at sword point, so he could use it "for the good the people." Socialists always insist that what they're taking from you is done with only the best of intentions.

                  Individualism always  wins the day.

                  How many people were on the committee that invented the Light-bulb? The steam engine? Champagne? The Printing Press? The myriad uses for Peanut oil? The theory of Relativity?

                  The Mind of Man is the single greatest source of prosperity in the known universe. Capitalism is the concept that what a man creates or generates off his own energies is HIS to keep, sell or give away, and NO ONE ELSE should have a say in it.

                  The profit motive, creating a better more prosperous life your yourself and those around you, has been the impetus for most every invention in the history of the world.

                  Greed is a singularly Socialist concept; you see what another man has made, and insist he GIVE it to you, because you could never have come up with it on your own.The entire socialist agenda is one of TAKING from those who produce and create, at gun point.

                  Capitalism is the constant encouragement of individuals to improve their lives, through their own energies. Wealth must be CREATED, before it can ever be "spread around." Socialism is about looting and steeling from the working man, with Government's aide & sanction.

                  Which is why it only works until you run out of other people's money.

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Where do you get your ideas from?

                    Greed is a singularly capitalist concept, what's mine is mine and mine alone. Where in any idea of socialism does it say that "The entire socialist agenda is one of TAKING from those who produce and create, at gun point."
                    You are having a laugh, or getting socialism confused with capitalism which is founded on taking from those who create and produce.
                    And socialism is about looting and stealing from the working man! Er wrong again, that's capitalism for you.

              2. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks for the good laugh. Frodo capitalism! No, if he were a capitalist he would have either kept the ring for himself or sold it on to the highest bidder and Sam would only have saved him if the price was right.

                1. WriteAngled profile image92
                  WriteAngledposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL!

                2. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  +1

  11. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 4 years ago

    I loathe communism but the day that the US wipes out every possible alternative to its own brand of capitalism is the the day to get off the planet.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We will throw a party like never before, on that day.

    2. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You 'aving a laarf ! They will deal and wheel anywhere ,anytime if there's a profit for them !'Um, 'scuse me comrade China !Get it? If Brit or France had the wealth of Iran ,well we would well be on the list from the wonderful U.S

  12. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    there are many attractive women in Cuba, but I found that the ones in Las Vegas are more liberal in their sexual attitudes...

    so score one for vacationing in the USA!

  13. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Yes, how quickly we forget.

  14. WriteAngled profile image92
    WriteAngledposted 4 years ago

    With respect to Guantanamo, the "treaty" was established by force and the US has no moral rights to keep occupying the territory of another nation in this way. However, the US is morally bankrupt in many other ways, so the fact it continues its illegal occupation does not surprise me.

    Incidentally, in additon to my trips to Cuba, I have visited Washington DC, Arlington, Baltimore and New Orleans several times. I do admit New Orleans was fun, but it was interesting that a US couple I met and spoke with on a river boat trip there took great pains to assure me New Orleans was totally different to the rest of the USA.

    Were I to be condemned to leave Wales, the beautiful country that adopted me, and told I had to choose life in the US or life in Cuba, I would have no hesitation in choosing Cuba in preference to the US. I find the Cuban people wonderful in how inventive they have become to get round potential problems caused by the embargo. Funnily enough, despite the way some people bang on about political repression, I find Cubans refreshingly free of the dismal political correctness that is so pervasive in much of US society. The deciding factor, of course, would be the fact that in Cuba I would be assured of social support were I to need it. I would not have to fear about medical fees, for example. Incidentally, while it is not so easy to find an aspirin for a minor niggle in Cuba, people who need advanced medical care are assured it. If they have to be flown into Havana to obtain it, a companion is offered accomodation and other living costs free as long as necessary.

    You see, despite what you may believe, a significant proportion of the world's population does NOT look up to the example of the US and does its best to avoid falling into the same traps as the US.

    My Cuban friends are shining examples of what Cuba offers to the rest of the world. They are both doctors, and also engaged in scientific research, which is how I met them originally. They could earn many times as much being doorkeepers in hotels for foreign tourists in Varadero, but they choose to remain in their profession. What is more, they gave up two years of their lives to give medical provision in an isolated region in Ethiopia, and another two years to teach medical students in the Gambia. Currently, they have volunteered for a further posting elsewhere. This does not gain them huge advantages back home; at most they get a week's free stay in a fancy tourist hotel in Santiago de Cuba. They volunteer, because like the Cuban government, they feel it is something that is important, in a world where so many people lack basic health provision.

    Concerning health, independent statistics show that perinatal mortality in Cuba is lower than in the US. I believe that the literacy rate in Cuba is overtaking that of the US.

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +1

  15. innersmiff profile image79
    innersmiffposted 4 years ago

    I don't know much about Cuba personally but my girlfriend is Cuban-American. Her family's culture is rooted in hatred of the Cuban regime and how grateful they are for the liberties they have in America. She can never draw out any cash when she goes to meet her extended family there because they'll steal it. The "American" side of the family are swimming in wealth in comparison. My basic hypothesis is: people don't run from a happy and fulfilling life.

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Which is funny because many people left the US to Cuba during the cold war (one of them actually being Harvey Lee Oswald who wanted to emigrate to Cuba but was not allowed by the government this is apparently one of the main reasons he killed Kennedy)

      Now lets examine the immigration side of this #1 many many of the people who fled Cuba were wither government cooperators (who would never admit that they were since that government killed hundreds of thousands of it's own people) #2 Very wealthy and wanted to get out most of their wealth before it was redistributed (inevitably the hate the government for taking what they left behind) #3 Are people who leave Cuba for the most basic reason, the same reason people come here from Mexico, because the US is a wealthier country and it's close so while Cuba's economy is still growing it is not equal to that of the US so many will leave to get to a stronger economy, it's simple.

      1. innersmiff profile image79
        innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Do you not think that the Cuban government killing its own people might have something to do with the mass emigration, and the promise of government favours might have something to do with immigration? And the rest is just expounding on my point, nothing really funny about it. People don't want as much of their property to be stolen and want to make more money, so they go to a freer country. It's also interesting to note that the 'growing' Cuban economy has not grown at all since the Cold War.

        1. WriteAngled profile image92
          WriteAngledposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There is not mass emigration as such. My own perceptions when  talking to Cubans were that most people in Cuba are conscious of how the situation has developed and back their government.

          As for governments letting criminals go free, the Cuban government took a genius step and let its criminals go to the US, where they have been welcomed with open arms rather than being jailed. Not surprising really, since Mafia rule has been the norm in the US for a long time.

          1. innersmiff profile image79
            innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They back their government killing people? Well gee.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, we in the UK have backed many governments that kill their own!

              1. innersmiff profile image79
                innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I know, including the UK government itself.

        2. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The Cuban government executed 3200 people in two years after the revolution, these were cooperators of the dictatorships, men who ordered the deaths of civilians before the revolution, torturers and people who violently rose up against the revolution after it's success who killed civilians (i.e murderers). Since then people were executed under capital punishment only for crimes such as murder and rape (just like in the US) no one has been executed in 8 years and currently no one sits on death row, I would hardly call that fleeing from government killings unless you were guilty of mass murder or accessory to it . As for the economy:

          Due to the continued growth of tourism, growth began 1999 with a 6.2% increase in GDP. Growth in recent years has picked up significantly, with a growth in GDP of 11.8% in 2005. In 2007 the Cuban economy grew by 7.5%, below the expected 10%, but higher than the Latin American average rate of growth. Accordingly, the cumulative growth in GDP since 2004 stood at 42.5 %.[22][23]
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

          This is all despite the US embargo, the only time the Cuban economy has declined was in the "special period" after the collapse of the USSR when Cuba lost it's primary trading partner as well as several billion dollars it had loaned to the USSR.

          1. innersmiff profile image79
            innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh is that all? Just 3200? Silly me.

            GDP is a classically poor way of judging economic growth as it includes government spending and various other things. Its inventor even said that governments should not use it as such. Just ask your average single mother what the economy is like and then you'll have a better judgment. Cuba still remains the 178th economically free country in the world and that can not be good for businesses nor individuals.

            You can argue all you like but you have to accept that for some reason Cubans just don't like Cuba that much. But to put it in comparison to the United States is only as fair in that the US is economically free in comparison (but far far far too tyrannical for any reasonable human) but just as tyrannical socially. But if you disagree you could always move to Cuba!

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I lived in Cuba for 6 years, I moved to the US because guess what, the Freedom loving US would't let my family of US citizens move there and I did not want to be separated from them any longer. Cuba has executed 3 people in the last 10 years, in 2010 the US executed 44, to save me the effort of looking up every year I am just going to times that by ten and get 440 in the last decade... So let's do the math

              population of Cuba 11.5 million

              population of USA 311 million

              11.5 goes into 311 pretty much exactly 27 times

              27 X 3 = 81 

              440/81= 5.43

              So look at that, unless 2010 was a record year for executions in the USA Cuba executes about 5.5 times fewer people than the USA per capita so if people left Cuba worried about being executed they should play the numbers and go right back tongue

              As for the economy you will note if you bother to look it up that it's growth is much faster than it was before the revolution.

              Frankly anyone who argues that Cuba was better off before socialism is very very ignorant, either from the perspectives of the freedom they have and especially from their wealth, not to mention social benefits (literacy rate has tripled or quadrupled etc.)  But the improvement from such dire straits as Cuba was in before cannot happen overnight, on the other hand there is America not too far away with a much stronger economy, who can be blamed for leaving?

              You say GDP per person is not a reliable method of measuring economic growth well then tell me what is and I will use that, if you like I know several mothers (some single) who I can call and ask what they think is going on but I already know what they will say.

              1. innersmiff profile image79
                innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well I'm glad you enjoyed it there. I can't account for why so many Cubans left and are still leaving, but it can't just be because they are idiots . . . or rich people.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It says right there why, because the US for the time being has a stronger economy, it really is no mystery. Also please tell me how to measure this economy for you.

                  Jobs created? last year per capita Cuba produced twice the quantity of jobs than the US.

                  1. innersmiff profile image79
                    innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Okay great . . . I'm not really sure where we are going here.

                    I measure how good an economy is by quality of life, advances in technology etc. Jobs and GDP are a means to an end. What good is an economy if it is not producing what the consumers want?

        3. jandee profile image46
          jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The self-employed people and others that I mixed with in Cuba last year were very pleased with their life. I heard choirs singing in the streets,in churches,all different mixes of religion. We joined in with groups who loaned us their guitars.I even put some splurges on an artists work.
          I didn't see anybody with fancy handbags or shoes  but that's normal in the student area I live in anyway.

  16. innersmiff profile image79
    innersmiffposted 4 years ago

    There was also a Czech student in my class who's first question about me was what I thought about communism. I basically had no opinion at the time, but he told me that his Grandfather was murdered by the communists because he didn't want to give up his farmland to the state, and it is from this this guy's stance on politics was born.

    I cite these examples because I believe personal experience is a much better barometer for truth than theorising intellectual concepts and what-not. The fact is that everyone I have met who has been personally associated with communism and socialism has had a bad experience with it.

    P.S. psst.  . .Socialism and Communism are deeply flawed on a theoretical level too!

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No, on a theoretical level they make perfect sense. The bought politicians who purport to be socialists are deeply flawed.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Hollie.

        You mean like Tony Blair, that Thatcherite socialist?

        1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself. Hi John, too. smile

          1. jandee profile image46
            jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Me neither Hollie!

      2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Whatever, comrade.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, another deep and meaningless comment.

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Went right by you, huh?

  17. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 4 years ago

    "Then, after a time, when these people, being reduced to the
    last extreme of misery, cried out that they and their children were dying of hunger, the System grudgingly unlocked the doors of the great warehouses, and taking out a small part of the things that were stored within, distributed it amongst the famished workers, at the same time reminding them that it was Charity, because all the things in the warehouses, although they had been made by the workers, were now the property of the people who do nothing.

    And then the starving, bootless, ragged, stupid wretches fell down and worshipped the System, and offered up their children as living sacrifices upon its altars, saying:
    `This beautiful System is the only one possible, and the best that human wisdom can devise. May the System
    live for ever! Cursed be those who seek to destroy the System!'"

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I've yet to read a more eloquent description of the Socialist Mentality, John.

      Under Capitalism, the workers get to keep a far larger portion of what they earn with labor and creativity. Lower Taxes are kind of a Republican Conservative Capitalist thing.

      Socialism TELLS you that it's taking from you so it can distribute the wealth, but the Ruling Class, say the Russian Politburo or any Communist country's Elite, always seem to be the ones with the loot, and there is NO middle class.

      I know you desperately want Capitalism to be filled the Takers, John. But you keep using examples of Socialist/Communist history (or future fiction, in this case) and saying they are Capitalism's sins.

      Capitalism is the wealth creating engine of the World, and Socialists seek to confiscate that wealth at every opportunity. Socialism has come to America in the form of Unionism and Crony Capitalism.

      YOU think that because Capitalism allows people to fail, it must be greedy. Capitalism creates an environment where it is FAR easier to succeed, which is what brought America to the status of World Power in less time than any nation has ever done it, in the history of mankind.

      Jesus Himself said "you will always have poor among you." There are people who are going to be poor, no matter what you do for them.

      Conservatives, the political water carriers for Capitalism, are the most generous donators to charitable works in America, and I feel confident saying "in the world." By a large margin, especially when compared to out Liberal friends and neighbors. Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.

      Poverty is most often a lack of opportunity. Capitalism allows for, creates and overtly encourages, opportunity.

      You were going to tell me the number of people on those committees, again?

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You so dismally fail to understand socialism that I'm not sure I can be bothered to reply to your canard.

        Capitalism is the wealth creating engine of the few and it does this by stealing the wealth off the producers.
        Where in socialism does it say that socialism confiscates that wealth at every opportunity? Again,you are attributing capitalist mores to socialism.

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You can "share" wealth that hasn't been created? Spread Around wealth that you somehow leave in my pocket, simultaneously?

          Neat trick, that.

          Before it can give, Socialism must necessarily Take. Creating dependent slaves to the State, and indentured servants (slaves) of those who still work.

          You see people who have more wealth than you, and demand the State give some of it TO you, despite your having never earned it. THAT, dear friend, is the very definition of Greed.

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            When have I ever demanded anything that I have not earned?
            Sorry, again that is a capitalist trait. As is slavery, that's another capitalist trait.

            1. innersmiff profile image79
              innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              By taxing you are asking for property that is not yours.

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You still havn't moved to Somalia huh? No taxation there and guess what? It's the poorest country in the world.

                1. innersmiff profile image79
                  innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually the Islamist factions that run it steal from the population all the time, just like a government. A government is just a Mafia with the illusion of democracy for everyone. At least when Libertarians cite the Soviet Union and Maoist China as red failures, they do operate under the principles of Communism/Socialism. When people mention Somalia as an example of Anarchism they are just lying.

                  1. Josak profile image61
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So the state is being run by a mafia? and why would that be? What combats a mafia? But seriously then give me an example of a functioning Anarchist nation (don't say small sections of pre civil war Spain because they hardly existed) and as for Christiania (which you may not be aware of) I have visited it, I staid there a few days, it's incredibly poor and the whole economy runs on drugs.

      2. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Funny then that the US has one of the worst wealth distributions and the USSR, Cuba, and Communist China had a far better wealth distribution according to GINI index, sorry but if the worker gets so much more under a capitalist system and the middle class is so much larger how come socialist or communist states have a more equal wealth distribution.

        For example Cuba has a Gini index of 25 or slightly more (the lower the index the more equal the distribution) the US is at nearly 50 and rising.

        1. innersmiff profile image79
          innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's the rub. You can have as much as everyone else but everyone will then be poor!

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I prefer a country where everyone has a modest home, electricity, food and fresh water to a country where some have Palaces and mansions while the majority starve, I would suggest that believing the opposite is deeply morally bankrupt, but of course if you do believe so it comes from someone with no knowledge of what it is to be poor so I can't really blame you.

            1. innersmiff profile image79
              innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              That's a false dichotomy. How about we try and come up with a system in which everyone can be prosperous in their own way, which doesn't involve violence?

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So tell me what it is? Anarchy... Like Somalia? Where since there is no police violence is constant and which is the poorest country in the world? Don't get me wrong I like the idea, I am not seeing the reality.

                1. innersmiff profile image79
                  innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Well let's do a thought experiment where we imagine we've settled on a new planet and trying to make a community. When we come to questions, like 'how will we stop murderers?', we don't say that the system doesn't work just because someone has asked a question, we try and work without violence to the very end we we simply have to (the rare instances where there are crazy murderers running around with no chance of stopping them). We could get together and put some of our money into a pot and give it to people to protect us and call it whatever we like: the police force, the watch-men, it doesn't matter. Then the rules are defined by ourselves without bureaucrats and put into a contract or a DRO (Dispute Resolution Order) which lays out what happens when there is a dispute. The WRONG solution is for the Watchmen to come to us, point a gun at our heads and demand money so that we can be protected. That is what the government does.

                  1. Josak profile image61
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So say someone steals your car, who gets it back? This stuff happens all the time so I guess every day we will need to be putting money into this pot to track down these individuals, now will they be professional police or will they be bounty hunters or some such, either which way eventually certain people will take to policing because they have the skill or the willingness to do so, and eventually this force will get quite big say that one day they get together and realize well we can charge whatever we want for this and kill anyone who attempts to undercut us what do the people in our thought experiment do then? presumably they will employ other people, but these will be marked for death or beatings by this union of "lawmen" and soon no one will be willing to do it, so they will pay unreasonable rates and then the "union"  will accumulate a lot of money and one day they will say well we have a lot of money and a lot of good guns, how about we employ some people to help us and declare that everyone needs to pay us a constant amount of money or else we will go round and burn down their house etc. Then what do the people do? if they rebel many die and violence ensues if they submit then we are right back where we are today except under a government on which we can inflict no change. How do we solve this?

                    Anarchist conditions existed in pre communist China for a brief time but then Warlords started sprouting up everywhere and expanding and eventually all free communities were crushed, why? because they had no standing army and professional soldiers and since they had neither they could not protect themselves.

              2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "How about we try and come up with a system in which everyone can be prosperous in their own way, which doesn't involve violence?"
                Excellent idea!

                We already have it, though. We call it Capitalism.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually taxation is violence, I believe justified violence, see you as a capitalist believe in giving the state monopoly of force (military and police) and that force is used for taxation therefore justifiable violence. Unfortunately you know none of this because I have seen potatoes that are better read and you have no idea what you are supporting.

                2. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually taxation is violence, I believe justified violence, see you as a capitalist believe in giving the state monopoly of force (military and police) and that force is used for taxation therefore justifiable violence. Unfortunately you know none of this because I have seen potatoes that are better read and you have no idea what you are supporting.
                  So you oppose socialism because it creates a tyranny of the state yet you have no knowledge of the power you give to the state in the system you propose... see why it's impossible to take your arguments seriously?

                  1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                    StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Tell us please, O guru of governments, HOW does Free Market Capitalism and Small Government Conservatism add up to more power for the State?

                    THIS I gotta hear.

                  2. jandee profile image46
                    jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Leave the 'Dolts' in their Chains. They deserve them!

                3. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Is that the same capitalism that believes greed is good? That causes famines? Wars without a cause? The deaths of children? Slavery? Child soldiers? You're deluded.

              3. jandee profile image46
                jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It's called prison and when we the 99% are all in them then the minorities who have the wealth will be overjoyed and wont require the use of violence-then they can drink and drug themselves to their own greedy deaths,and also drive themselves to suicide by reading their own mindless 'rags'

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Murdoch down, just the daily mail, express and telegraph to go! wink

                  1. jandee profile image46
                    jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Can't wait!! Goodbye Murdoch .'. Tarnisher of Liverpool'

        2. innersmiff profile image79
          innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wealth is not a pie to share equally. Our task is to create as many pies as possible so that everybody can have as much as they want.

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Where have you been living? The biggest share of the pie always gravitates to the same place. If you haven't noticed, then you are either uneducated, naive or wilful ignorance has prevented you from noticing that you "are eating all the pies."

            1. innersmiff profile image79
              innersmiffposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I know it does, but why? It isn't anything to do with free markets, I promise you.

  18. mikelong profile image84
    mikelongposted 4 years ago

    This is very easy.....those with the most capital will then control the "small government" state.

    In the case of the United States, the profit motive did not create safer trains or rail travel. It was the hand of regulation exercised through the voice of the discontented, maimed, and killed who stirred enough attention for the federal government to act. What did "free market capitalism" do for travel fares before regulation was enacted?

    The "drive for the dollar", or physical wealth in general, should not be the drive for producing a good, or for performing a service.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And yet, it is, Mike. All wishful thinking to the contrary.

      You are correct that Political Power is courted most effectively by money, but to say it's the way Capitalism cedes more power to the State, holds no water. Rich Socialists (George Souros, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, John F-ing Kerry, virtually all of Hollywood) do everything they can to control our ever more socialist American government. They own the Democrat Party, whole.

      The bulk of Republican donations are under $100.00 Little guys like ol Crunchy, helping out as we can. We also tend to be Charity minded, Christian, and given to fighting for the rights & freedoms of people all over the world.

      Small businesses are still the #1 employer in America, and small businesses HATE Big Government.

      And will you people PLEASE stop confusing Socialist Crony Capitalism, where Obama forced through the half billion dollar loans for Solyndra, which everyone KNEW was going to go Bankrupt, because the CEO was a HUGH Obama campaign bundler, for instance, with Free Market Capitalism?

      Socialist Crony Capitalism is where the State attempts to pick the winners and losers, by subsidizing the people who suck up, and penalizing via taxes, regulations and other forms of harassment, the people who FAIL to suck up.

      The Free Market allows people to succeed, regardless of their political affiliations, if they make a better mouse trap.
      Competition breads higher quality and lower prices.

      Socialism erases competition, by making everyone equally miserable. Everyone Loses under Socialism, eventually.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And will you stop confusing socialism with crony capitalism?

        The free market allows some to succeed whilst keeping many in poverty, "hey, if you expect me to pay a living wage, I won't have as much to spend on myself!"

  19. mikelong profile image84
    mikelongposted 4 years ago

    Your harp on Obama and Solyndra are nothing but partisan smoke and mirrors.

    "Socialist America", as you see it evolving (somehow) is another myth.

    Boogedy Boogedy Al Gore?

    Somehow that doesn't send chills down many spines...

    This forum topic is a criticism of Cuba...but really what it shows is display of how little many people know of the Coban-American melodrama.

    I wonder what Cuba would have become had the United States kept its original bargain...to stay out of an internal conflict between Spain and one of its colonies.

    Some people point to Spanish and then U.S. controlled Cuba (before Castro) and see "success"....  But, even after Cuba became "independent" from Spain (free from "imperialism"/foreign control), Spaniards controlled up to half of productive land, with Americans holding up to half of the rest. This is all well documented, but you can read "Cuba Under the Platt Amendment" and go from there.

    Freedom is not free.....especially for the Cuban people under Spanish and American control. Yet, for those with access to capital (which we all know is not "free"), they were free to do whatever they wanted ("the American playpen").

    For a tiny island nation with a population a microscopic percentage of the U.S., and all "Western" nations (It's amazing how that term is monopolized without regard for reality) is able to find success, and outlast the subjugation that superpowers have placed upon it.

    Americans grow up spoiled because their nation is large, strong, and unified (or so it would appear). For those who are born and raised here, there is definitely a disconnect that exists when it comes to discussing "self-determination" and "liberty". I wonder how many would change their minds if they were, instead, the Cubans; Not the European/Americans who migrated to Cuba to take advantage of the cheap labor and maleable-weak government they installed for their own benefit, mind you, but those who were taken against their will or coerced and their descendents.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Here is what the San Francisco Chronicle had to say about the "smoke and mirrors" Solyndra debacle:

      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c … 1KUV3L.DTL

      If you don't see an ever expanding Public Sector, earning wages far and away greater than their Private Sector counterparts as Creeping Socialism, you're blind as a bat.

      1. mikelong profile image84
        mikelongposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Why don't you delve into reality....

        Compare Enron and their "conservative" connections...all the way to the Bush family and the White House, and then look at Solyndra...

        It is so ridiculous how many "free marketers/small government" minds wrap themselves up in crony-politics and economics.

        And then they try to forget, and try to get everyone else to forget, what they are really up to.

        1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
          StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Mike? Take your smoke and your mirrors elsewhere, because truth-shading doesn't cut it.

          You want Enron's Reality? Let's ask the New York Times. Or are they too right wing for your tastes?

          http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/21/us/en … amp;src=pm

          Where are the Republican ties to the boondoggle we all know as Solyndra? Nowhere to be found. Obama and his cronies own that, free and clear.

  20. WD Curry 111 profile image61
    WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago

    I live in Florida, you can't throw a rock without hitting a Cuban. They are great people, and they know how to eat. I hope we start normalizing trade. That might loosen up the old school hardliners on the Island. The tourist trade can help their situation.

    We talk like the cold war is over and do business with China like they don't have a totalitarian regime. Why not cut our neighbors a break. We can work it out.

    By the way. I heard Obama stand before a summit meeting of middle eastern nations and declare himself to be a Christian. A Muslim would not do that. When he explained his attitude and position, he got a standing ovation. I am an Independent and am not swayed by political propaganda based on a slip of the tongue.

    So what if a president is Islamic? It is admissible within the framework of the Constitution. It is hard to explain to some foreigners.

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That one puzzles me too.
      I think it would do the US good to have a none Christian president.

      1. 0
        Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Dare to dream my friend!  The American people are not tolerant enough of such a person.  Whichever candidate came out as an atheist, or simply a non-christian, would be destroyed, even if their opponent was Rick Santorum! 

        "Another co-author, the University of British Columbia’s Ara Norenzayan, said one of the reasons for doing the study was a recent poll that found that only 45 percent of Americans who responded would vote for an atheist presidential candidate.  Those who were polled said atheists least represented their vision of America."  http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011 … new-study/

        Very depressing, considering alleged Christians have been in charge for a long time, and look at where we are.

      2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
        StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Good like little girls legally being mutilated, John?

        PASS, thank you.

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No--like little girls growing up free to control their own lives...not have it overseen by the church/state.

          1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
            StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Little girls need to be BORN for that to happen, Shalob.

            Why do you campaign so hard for the right to kill them, before they might have that chance?

        2. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          What on earth are you babbling on about now?

      3. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Like I said. It is hard to explain to some foreigners. How are things between you and Argentina? I heard they found oil off the Falklands. It would take someone from BP to be arrogant and ignorant enough to drill there.

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          There will be, don't worry.

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            What? Do you mean BP will be arrogant and ignorant enough to drill off the horn? I don't doubt it. They are beyond clueless. I bet Argentina will be ready for you this time.

            1. John Holden profile image60
              John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh yes, but I must add that BP isn't wholly British owned any more sad

              1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Don't tell me the Saudis, Japanese, Chinese, Bulgarian or Lithuanian interests found their way in through the stock markets (the biggest pyramid scheme ever devised)?

                Back to the real point? Cubans are cool. We can all learn a lot from them. Even little hovels are decorated with ornamental stone work or concrete. They are vibrant and accepting. They are clever and resourceful. They excel here. Race is not a huge issue with the average Cuban. The races have mixed to good effect there. I want to be friends, again.

                We can all do better. We shouldn't settle for things the way they are.

                1. John Holden profile image60
                  John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually mostly Americans!

                  I've never been to Cuba but I know people who have and they've sang its praises - and not left wing loonies either!

                  Unfortunately the few are quite happy with the way things are and with their band of supporters, that's the way they'll stay for some time.

                2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
                  StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I have no doubt that Cubans are indeed, cool. There music alone speaks volumes to that point.

                  Communism, and the wretched circumstances it forces Cubans to live under, are what I am trying to address. Imagine what an economic powerhouse Cuba could be, were she free of the shackles of her socialist masters, and allowed to prosper.

                  http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6326442_f248.jpg

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh come on, it's the US that stops Cuba from prospering.

                  2. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                    WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Alright, I see what you are saying. The fact is . . . communism never works. People are too greedy. In modern times, the revolution has only served to change regimes. The system has never been able to move beyond the totalitarian phase, and the "party' has  always become a small elite faction. Case in point . . . there are more billionaires in Moscow than New York city. The gold, oil, and money was not equally distributed according to doctrine.

                    I am afraid this doctrinal delineation was taken by the early Church as well. At first, everyone was giving all to everyone. A few weeks later, the game changed.

                    Don't kid yourself, Cuba knows the drill. All they want is a little dignity and respect. We all need the same thing. Why is it so hard to come by?

                  3. WD Curry 111 profile image61
                    WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I hear what you are saying. The revolution never makes it past the totalitarian stage. There are more billionaires in Moscow than New York. The "Party" becomes a small elite. Rather than distributing equally according to doctrine, the elite take it all. If you squawk, they have something for you.

                    The early church was distracted by a similar doctrinal delineation. At first, folks were giving all to everyone. A few weeks later, the game changed.

                    All the Cubans want is to maintain some dignity and respect. Why is that so hard to give? If we reach out, they will be glad to take our hand.

                    https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNmPSpRVXaaIB3aTEFZPtpKseS349xo0cErum_vrykz1SuhR3Zmw

                    http://cubasurf.ca/cubasurf/surf-inform … ng-in-cuba

  21. WD Curry 111 profile image61
    WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago

    I have been reading these posts. Why is everyone so hung up on politics and theory of government? It is a joke. Government is irrelevant to the relationships between people. We should simply boycott every government until they get in line behind us. Everyone has an agenda except those who are busy living.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSR5vAxV_n8mtbthLDzk8Paa61-fFB0ac23H6zh3wE6ZsxvZqpaOA

    Cuba is on the ropes, and all of this rhetoric is a drag. Go see Cuba for yourself! Then we'll talk.

    https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNNeOnaE_GiWgWg2-_nP4Xs-RlH6Rt2baf32j9W0BpeiI2sVcs5g

    http://www.insightcuba.com/?siteID=Cali … QAodNh9RZw

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Lived there six years, and i had family there way back before the revolution so I am back, what are you going to tell me?

    2. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What a great and interesting world this would be if we didn't have to give support to the victims of oppression in this world.   I would be so happy if It wasn't  'asked of me' to go on peace marches and union stuff,if I didn't have to worry about Palestine being viciously bombed and attacked at every turn,where cancer sufferers can  not have medical treatment as the Israel road blocks are preventing medical aid .Yes if I didn't have to think of these refugees under occupation and waiting for their moral right which is a free Palestine  + justice+dignity,
      well then if we could see a few of these things becoming to be ! Well then!
      I could relax with my dog training ,painting.(harmonica) and blah,blah.
      So! maybe this is why poeple are 'hung up' on politics ! Why they don't think this 'rhetoric is a drag' and why doing nothing is selfish and lazy and a million other 'doltish' things------Been to Cuba and they won't let me live there-work to do here???

      1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
        WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        jandee - I play harmonica like you would not believe. I could come to London and play with any band that doesn't have one. It ain't a hobby. I'm not talking about doing nothing. Hello? I am suggesting we reach out to Cubans and lift the embargo. If you wait for government or drive by quippers on HubPages, you are stuck in Black Cow,

        As far as Palestine is concerned. Israel is Palestine. Ask any Roman Centurion. There is no such thing as a Palestinian people group. That is a hoax perpetuated by Arafat. What we call Palestinians are disenfranchised Arabs who wandered into a no man's land. Ancient prophecy is coming true. Israel was scattered. Now they are being brought back to where they belong. The desert blooms and the "fig tree is budding". What do you know? Spring is here! Before history is over, Israel will return to her pre-dispersion borders, forget 1968. Read up!
                                   
                                           https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRV7JuQDEx8l8vexdyfAN7bs6O56eD9YM1VouUv6ypiTIXMrHikqg

        I feel for the people, but why don't their Arab brothers provide them some space and aid for a homeland? Why can't they join with them in something besides the maniacal destruction of Zion?

        We are talking Cubans. They are sweet people. The Palestinians are not, except for the children, they are narrow-minded bigoted murderers of innocent people. Nothing justifies their constant killing of civilians. Why don't you just invite them to immigrate to England and feed them mushy peas?

        You have missed the point about government in your obvious confusion about world affairs and how they affect you personally. I am saying, "We the People", but want someone else to handle business.

        You don't know anything about Cuba or Cubans, so what is it that you are trying to accomplish? Is there lead in the water in Liverpool, or what?

        1. jandee profile image46
          jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You don't play my kind of Harmonicai !  I love the Palestinians and I play 'Progressive! Okay Matey!!

          Incidentally in my book  USrael are one and the same so how can I discuss one without the other old chap????

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image61
            WD Curry 111posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hey darlin' . . . I'm sure we can jam. I thought you read my bio and were getting in some kind of off-handed dig. I did not realize (realise) you play as well. Oops!

            I don't hate Palestinians, but their claim is bogus and I don't support it. Sure. Israel and the U.S. are one, I hope. I've read the book. Israel wins!

            You would love it in Florida! We have limes everywhere.

            1. jandee profile image46
              jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Maybe you can find  a Zionist Harmonica player to Jam with/or an old Nazi ??
              Don't do 'off-handed' !  I say it as it is! Matey ! Oh You in your make-believe world............

        2. Hollie Thomas profile image61
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "we the people" like the people of Palestine? Oh, sorry, the Arabs. Perhaps that statement makes you feel "better" about ethnic cleansing .In fact, why don't the Jews of the world find a home for their brothers? Does that statement sound offensive? It should. Two people, maybe, just maybe, without the interference of those who purport to "know" the answers and who so often  condemn, a solution may be found!!  if I was a religious person, I'd pray that one day you'd find your conscience and recognise that those who preside over an apartheid state are not "good" or worthy. As I'm not a religious person, I hope that one day you'll see sense. By the way, the mushy peas attack is very passée, the British rarely eat them. Do some homework! And another BTW,  Liverpodlians had some very important news this week; just like Cuba, it has been confirmed that they are not a bunch of scroungers, drunkards and they did not make unreasonable demands, but their again, just like the Palestine/Israel conflict, I doubt you could even recognise the real situation.

          1. John Holden profile image60
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh you've got me going now. Which British MP on seeing mushy peas in a chip shop said "give me some of that Guacamole as well"

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Would it be that working class traitor JP?

              1. John Holden profile image60
                John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                All I can come up with is Peter Meddlesome but that doesn't tie in with my memory.

                1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                  Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, the prince of darkness! Somehow, I have visions of a chippy and John Prescott. I also have visions of John Prescott and eggs. Mushy peas, John Prescott, I dunno wink

        3. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Strangely enough Palestine was actually composed of a lot of Christians before Israel claimed the land they were the first people to resist not the Arabs, just because states did not exist in the past does not mean they don't have the right to exist now, indeed most countries we have now did not exist during Roman times furthermore there were people resisting Israel long before Arafat.

          Furthermore you have lived in Cuba right?.... and now you're telling others what Cubans are like... I see.

        4. jandee profile image46
          jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh Dear me!,
          All our London Bands are waiting in anticipation for wonderful you !
          Are you bringing the 'trumpet' you blow so well???

  22. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 4 years ago

    Did he really say "pretentious pomposity"?

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yup tongue

    2. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's what the man said........

  23. John Holden profile image60
    John Holdenposted 4 years ago

    Just an attempt to raise this from the dead, although that's probably the best place for it!

    1. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It worked!

  24. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    This must be a good thread, what with the last post being deleted. big_smile

    1. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Did you catch it before it went ?

  25. twaggoner profile image61
    twaggonerposted 4 years ago

    My two cents.....Cuba isn't perfect, but no government is. I agree wholeheartedly that the evidence shows they are much better off now than they were before the revolution. If people would get over the label of "socialism" that has been vomited up by the conservative right, they would understand that we are a socialist country by nature that has been given over to capitalism. the military provides health care, housing, even clothing for its troops...thats socialism. our police, fire, schools...all given to us by the government funded by our taxes, thats socialism. even our national anthem was written by a socialist, the "under god" portion wasnt even in it for the first 30 years or so when it was changed. if there were to come a day when the wealthy of the country woke up and forgot to be greedy, and remembered that sharing isnt a bad thing, we would all be better off. Cuba has been under US embargo for over 50 years, all because the people wanted a better way than being run by a US backed dictator. I think that alot of the things people complain about Cuba would be better off if they were out from under the thumb of the US. When you talk about human rights violations, it isnt right for any country but I think its been proven that the US is about as bad as any other country. As far as Cubans or other countries having people wanting to come here to the US, that number is dwindling, even some illegals here are already are leaving, and once more and more see that the American dream is no reality anymore less will want to immigrate here. Anyway, thanks for the thread, its been interesting.

  26. mikelong profile image84
    mikelongposted 4 years ago

    "Stalin himself said; “America is like a healthy body and its resistance is three fold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.”"

    You prove that Stalin had no clue about what he was talking about.

    I can't remember, how many times did he visit/spend time in the United States?

    In terms of Nazi Germany, Fascism was simply a ploy, a guise to place more and more power under a tiny percentage of the population at the expense of everyone else.

    1. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      We didn't start out as a Socialist country, unless the six time American Socialist Party candidate for President knew Socialism less than you Lock-step Liberal Lemmings do.

      http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6352010_f248.jpg



      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6352016_f248.jpg

      1. Onusonus profile image88
        Onusonusposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        All too true. Just as Thomas said, they have without question adopted every premise of the socialist platform.

      2. twaggoner profile image61
        twaggonerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully, I didnt realize that as a lock step liberal lemming, I assumed that we should all be educated enough to understand the context of the message. But perhaps I should know better when posting where warmongering, jackboot conservatives are involved. While I would change the "started out as" to "started out with many socialist influences" my individual points are still valid. thanks

  27. sen.sush23 profile image59
    sen.sush23posted 4 years ago

    When it is so difficult to separate the grain from the chaff in all the media hoopla, to be able to be clear headed about what is what in your own country, Striped, how can you have such clarity of vision about the atrocities of a communist government (Cuba) that you do not know except from second hand information (of dubious source..atleast that is what comes out from this forum conversation!)? Some kind of Zen? smile

    I am sure you will agree, that there is something to be said about Cuba being able to keep its flag(communist) flying high even after such confirmed bad reputation!

    1. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Sen,
      he will never commit himself to anything as obvious as that so will never agree to anything..

      1. sen.sush23 profile image59
        sen.sush23posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        smile smile

    2. StripedCrunchy profile image59
      StripedCrunchyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      All the money they were getting from the USSR can't have had a little something to do with it, sen?

      Serving as the chief exporter of Communist Thug Enforcers throughout South America helped, too.

  28. Greek One profile image81
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    you guys and your ideologies are all the same in the end...

    http://patelism.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/socialism_vs_capitalism.jpg

  29. Uninvited Writer profile image84
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6378984_f248.jpg

  30. mio cid profile image66
    mio cidposted 4 years ago

    Cuba is a complex situation. There is good and bad but I think it is up to the cuban people who live in cuba to decide what kind of government they want to have.Not up to the US government, or to the cubans that live in Miami.And if the majority of the cuban people decide one day they no longer will tolerate the current regime it will fall because in the history of the world there has never been a true tyranny that was able to survive once the masses have decided against it.

    1. jandee profile image46
      jandeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes mostly correct .  Re. Tyranny! don't think the Soviet union falling was because of the peoples wishes!     It was more  of the paralysis and bombardment from U.S along with the usual dirty tricks. Lesson learned  is each country  sticks to it's own 'work'.........

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed, polling soon before the collapse showed only 30 percent of Russians wanted a capitalist state, 45% wanted the USSR to continue and 25% wanted alterations to the system within the communist framework.

      2. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed, polling soon before the collapse showed only 30 percent of Russians wanted a capitalist state, 45% wanted the USSR to continue and 25% wanted alterations to the system within the communist framework.

  31. Uninvited Writer profile image84
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    I see the Pope is visiting Cuba today...

 
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