http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … kdown.html
Uh-oh, this is so bad. There will be repercussions.. sorry if someone posted already about this, but I didn't see it earlier.
Your tax dollars at work.
This is the price that is paid for a war-mongering commander in chief.
Ron Paul would've brought our troops home in the first MONTH.
I think it's the price that's paid for letting a community organizer instead of an experienced leader become Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. Especially one who openly said he wanted to change America's foundation, and has taken steps to do so, including steps and reactions to events that demoralize our soldiers on so many levels.
So...a guy shooting down innocent civilians was Obama's fault?
At least you didn't defend the shooter...
I have no idea if the soldier can be defended yet. Cause I dunno if he's insane or what.
I simply meant of course that our liberal President has put our Armed Forces in escalating grave danger by his policies which denigrate our soldiers' access to patriotism and Faith, while he has defended the ways and beliefs of foreign Nations, much to the average American's chagrin and shame, including our fighting men and women. What kind of person would really want to defend our Nation under Obama when they're ordered to burn the Bibles they believe in and told to shut their mouths about the morals they believe in?
If the CNN story is true, Karsai called the killings "unforgiveable"?! I wonder if Karsai called the Fort Hood killings "unforgiveable"? I wonder if he called the recent murders of two American military men by Afghan terrorists "unforgiveable"?......How did those terrorists get that close to our men in the first place? I wonder if he called 9/11 "unforgiveable"? How does he know if the current killer went crazy or if it was done intentionally? Yet he has judged the U.S. already by calling it "unforgiveable".
How is it possible to defend a soldier who goes into civilians homes and shoots them dead, including women and 9 children. Mental illness, breakdown, the stress of war...all possible reasons for why it happened, but these actions cannot be condoned under any circumstances.
Just because this guy wears a military uniform, it does not give him the right to kill innocent civilians, women and children. Karsai called this unforgivable with good reason. I think that is spot on.
"How does he know if the current killer went crazy or if it was done intentionally?" - Are you suggesting that it is acceptable to kill women and children if you are insane? Or that it is only unforgivable if it is US women and children that are killed?
You also seem to blame Obama for this - I guess its far easier than blaming the previous republican president who started all of this. Warmongering has repercussions that last far longer than a presidential term you know.
If anyone has now put Americans over there in more danger now than they were before it was the heinous acts of one soldier. It is indefensible.
One the side of those who want the troops home, from what I have heard it is the Republicans who are yelling that the troops are being pulled out of Afghanistan too soon.
But that is not what the thread is about, it's about the mass murder of Afghani women and children.
The war was started by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, after blowing a chance to capture Bin Laden in his mountain hideaway, with the encouragement and support of the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Council on Foreign Relations and the rest of the American foreign policy establishment, not Barack Obama. He is taking practical steps to wind it down. It's unfair for you to call him a war monger.
Pardon me if I've got my facts wrong, but....I believe it was under Clinton's watch that Bin Ladin's assassination was cancelled.
Who invaded Libya and is putting sanctions on Iran?
Same ones who started Iraq, Afghanistan and did 9/11: PNAC.
And check your congress.....who's in there is gunning for wars all the time?.....omg, members of PNAC!
Cult of Insanity.
nobody invaded Libya during the uprising against gaddafi, foreign forces sent in aircover and aid for the "rebels". Though having been in Egypt during the revolution, I do not call them rebels, but freedom fighters.
Obama IS THE Commander in Chief, Ralph.
Quit making lame excuses for him.
You want a man who's got the cajones to end the war? Vote for Ron Paul.
MOST definately. And so is torture, indefinite detention, hatred because of race, religion, origin.
It's the evil of war.
But it's like the injustice system.....once you get convicted in it, it's hard as H to undo it.
HOPEFULLY--this guy will be imprisoned for life--get some help, and this horror act will make people stop and think...though I doubt it.
Because if we want out of war so bad....WHY are people beating the drums for Iran??
and ps: speaking of Nam vets...the hateful name they were called is still being used today: against women. Baby-killers ring a bell?
Evan, if you're going to use Spanish words, please try to spell them correctly. The word is cojones, not cajones.
If he was a war-monger, he'd be right there with Liebermann and McCain pounding the war drums for Iran....
And you would find out right quick that Ron Paul has as little or as much power as Obama.
Obama wanted to end the wars right away too...remember?
The thing about Bush---he was in on the club, IMO. I don't think Obama is. I think we need to de-tangle ourselves from a group of sadistic maniacs...and it's like dealing with a psychopath. You have to tread gingerly.
Oh, and one final thing before I go, Ralph.
These wars are all funded by your precious federal reserve.
Your economic way of thinking - at best - would refer to these deaths as "a mixed blessing".
"Sure", Lord Keynes says, "People are dying and we're spending money on things we don't need, but GDP is up up up! Keep on PRINTING!"
I hope you will some day recognize the obvious disgusting nature of Keynes.
This is an isolated incident, and you know it.
Don't make a mountain out of it.
What did you say when that Islamic US Captain killed all those soldier in the US?
It's not an isolated incident. Hundreds of people are dying weekly in these unnecessary wastes of taxpayer money.
A soldier murdered 15 civilians, 9 of them women and children and you slough it off because a US soldier killed people in the US? Both were awful events.
This is a mass murder and it should be treated like one.
You probably thought Mai Lai was okay too in the 60s. And you know what the guy who was convicted of the killing of 22 civilians got? 3 1/2 years house arrest. Over 300 people were murdered in that massacre.
Well said. Unfortunately it is not an isolated incident, how about the kill squad that was organized a few months ago? These are premeditated attacks on civilians, and while I only know of two occurrences, that's 2 more than should have happened.
War involves civilian casualties and there will always be 'collateral damage', but this is something totally different. This is murder. It is just as bad as the terrorists that everyone is fighting against. It reflects very badly on the US, even though these people were acting independently and without backing from the army.
It attracts a disproportionate response against America in retaliation; not against the individuals concerned. Whatever happens to this guy - even if he were to be executed - it would be viewed in the eyes of the Taliban as being 17 deaths short. Not that he will be executed of course. Unfortunately the news networks are already saying the Taliban will avenge these deaths regardless of what happens to this guy.
This comes on the back of 'incidents' such as Koran burnings and American soldiers urinating on dead Afgans. There are too many of these 'isolated incidents' happening.
It sickens and saddens me that these idiots are taking such stupid and irresponsible(and in the latest case, unspeakable) actions, and are placing the lives of normal Americans at risk; not to mention the reprisal attacks on troops deployed over there that are bound to follow. Actions such as this delay any efforts to withdraw troops.
That act, yes, was horrible. There are always reasons that those things occur, but not always good reasons, and never excuses.
I think we should wait for the investigation to uncover all the facts that can be uncovered.
According to the article, that town was a Taliban stronghold, wasn't it?
Everywhere is 'a Taliban stronghold' when these things happen.
Little kids are not taliban fighters.
Race Hate. IMO
Nurtured by certain segments of the military.
To Brenda: Even if the town was a purported Taliban stronghold, this does not justify the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. The act which was committed by an American soldier is quite analogous to what occurred in Lidice, Czechoslovakia and Orador Sur Glane, France in World War II. You see, German soldiers massacred innocent men, women, and children under the pretext that the town was a so-called terrorist stronghold. Yes, war is war but the slaughter of the innocent, especially women and children, is a mortally egregious act beyond all forgiveness!
sadly you are right there will be reprucussions. Though no excuses for behaving in suchan appalling manner one has to wonder what these soldiers see and endure on a daily basis and what causes them to then have a"brainstorm" which results in such carnage.
In fact I am thinking that the only reason that their are foreign forces out in Afghanistan is to try to right the wrong done by foreign powers in the not too distant past......its seems that the population and occupying forces are the ones that suffer......not the politicians, never them!!!
Another egregious act committed by an American soldier. Previously, four American soldiers committed other defamatory acts on dead Afghan bodies. This, in addition to the previous defamatory acts, is going to further make other countries in the world see the United States in an increasing negative light. The status of the United States is going to decrease further and further.........
Whether it's the pressures, their fears or a hatred building in our soldiers because of what they have witnessed being done to their buddies, it is a building concern. Our soldiers are human beings that have been thrust into a situation that is hard for most men/women to handle. Some of these men are going to lose control. Unlike the Viet Nam war where the majority of the soldiers were drafted and had no choice but to see the horror, these men enlisted, but still most had no idea how bad things are over there, just like the majority of the people here in the states.
No one knows what those men/women go through there. Sure, this was a tragedy and that soldier should have had better control. But don't condem him and/or judge him until you have been in his shoes. Look at the people here in the states that tend to lose it and kill people, and they aren't under that kind of stress. As usual, my opinion, Greg
He chose to wear the shoes. Anyone who joins the military now should be fully aware that they're corporate mercenaries. They know what they're getting into and they know the immorality and even illegality of their operations at the behest of their government masters. Ignorance is no excuse to join an imperial crusade.
I agree totally with you! He is the sole responsible of his choices and actions, being a soldier means to kill as a certainty and be killed eventually!
THOSE SOLDIERS ARE THERE DOING WHAT EVERY OTHER SOLDIER HAS EVER DONE IN THE PAST. WHETHER YOU WANT TOBELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAY ARE DEFENDING YOUR RIGHTS AN MINE TO BE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW AND YOU MAKE THEM SOUND LOKE CRIMINALS BECAYSE THEY SIGN UP TO DEFEND THOSE RIGHTS. And you are sounding as bad as the people that put our soldiers down for fighting in Viet Nam. My opinion, Greg
It's time to get our troops out of this region before another war erupts. Growing tensions are bound to cause mistakes like this.
time for all of you to put your vote where your mouth is: Only ONE candidate will bring the troops home
Ron Paul: Put up or shut up.
Firstly its terrible, secondly he appears to have had a mental breakdown, thirdly this is most definitely not egregious act, and fourthly yet again it will be blamed on the folks trying to help. In times of 'war' folks can and do have breakdowns. I do not have an answer but a little over ten years ago folks could not wait to 'get stuck in'
Yeah that the guy has had a breakdown of some sort is not in doubt, but what he has done is terrible. Did you see the tears in those poor Afghani survivors eyes?
Yeah it's time we got out of Afghanistan. Between burning Koran's and mistreating the people, it's only a matter of time before there is another terrorist attack on US soil, or British soil.
Get the troops out!
Hi Izzy, as I said in my first comment, the same things happen here at home, with people not being able to handle the pressures and going on a killing spree. And yes, the Afganis are already starting to hate and despise us and they won't be as understanding about what the reason is that things like this happen. We have got to get our troops out before we lose anything that we may have gained by being there. Greg
Totally agree, I think its full time to get the troops home, all that 'cash' can be spread across home defence and the likes, even putting 25% into healthcare, it will be terribly hard on those families that have lost loved ones but we now need our troops back, its un-winnable...
There is a small percentage of people who are psychotic and violent. They should not have access to weapons, but there is no way to really know 100% who these people are.
Avoiding war/occupation is one bulletproof way to prevent some mentally ill person from committing an atrocity and having it reflect very badly on the entire army.
Stacie L wrote:
It's time to get our troops out of this region before another war erupts. Growing tensions are bound to cause mistakes like this.
Thought I would check the dictionary definition.....
1. An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
2. A misconception or misunderstanding.
3. Carelessly walking into civilian homes in the middle of the night and executing women and children before setting fire to their bodies.
It's obviously a horrible thing, and I don't think too many sane people (within or outside of the American government; American or otherwise) would see it as anything less too horrible for words. The fact that he's American military makes it more complicated than the "run-of-mill" "psycho-violence" that can take place anywhere. Any time anyone does this kind of thing out of having "a mental breakdown" (if that's the case here), that doesn't do much for anyone affected by it. It doesn't change anything for the victims anyone around them.
Personally, I think whether or not the US should have ever been in Afghanistan and whether or not it should get out (and when) should be discussed in another thread, separate from this one. I think this one should be about expressing sorrow and shock at knowing such a thing happened to innocent victims. No words can ever help them, and they'll never see this, here, anyway. Still, here's the worldwide Internet and here's a place where people can express their thoughts about what happened... Somehow, to me, it just seems appropriate to want to "put out there somewhere" how many people share in the horror that such a thing has happened to innocent victims (and children, on top of that).
It doesn't help anyone AT ALL, but I suppose it's human nature to want to try to "reach out" somehow to whoever has been anywhere near close, or personally connected, to such a horrible situation. I guess that's the part of the human nature that I'd hope would show up in this particular thread, regardless of who ever does or doesn't read what's here..
6 out of every 100 adult humans suffer from a serious mental illness in any one given year. This probability is no difference to a large enough group of professionally trained soldiers. Whilst the case of that one single soldier is regrettable, it should be treated as a case of mental sickness until complete investigations have been done.
Pulling the soldiers out of Afghanistan before the job that took them there has been completed is as good as saying you are ready to have terrorists come for you right in your own backyard, and that is not acceptable.
I would think that what is most needed is for the citizens to be united in encouraging the soldiers to carry-on with the good job they are doing until this planet is free of terrorists.
"These wars are all funded by your precious federal reserve."
Evan, that makes about as much sense as blaming the Gulf oil spill or the tsunami in Japan on the Federal Reserve or on God's revenge for tolerating homosexuality. The FED plays a critical role in regulating our monetary system. Fortunately it is somewhat insulated from politics and assaults from libertarian ignoscenti.
US government can't tax enough to cover their expenses.
They then can't borrow enough because the dollar is borderline worthless.
So, they print up bonds and sell them to the fed. They then use the money to force resources into the military sector of the economy.
It's clear as day, Ralph. Take off your blinders.
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