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Raacism At The President Level

  1. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    This idea that racism doesn't exist today, people are playing the race card because these events don't take place today. A Black child can't possibly be murdered because of his race-Enough.

    The vicious attacks on the president of the United States with political figures engaging in these racial attacks clearly demonstrates that racism is a real issue in the United States.

      http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2 … by-and-boy

    Some members of Congress referring to the President of the United States as a "tar baby." If racism can exist at the highest level why are we are astonished that it can exist in our society.

    1. vparker profile image59
      vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I feel that a lot of people like to act like racism exists because they do not want to get involved. If they pretend that it doesn't exist then they don't have to do anything about it, bring attention to themselves and stand up against it. It's kind of like being a teacher and watching one of your students get bullied everyday. They know that the bully is wrong, but they are too afraid to stand up against it -- so they ignore it, or blame the victim.

      I hope you get what I am saying, because far too often people blame Black people in general for racism..as though all Black people are the same.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        vparker,

        Your explanation was very enlightening. The idea of not wanting to get involved escaped me until you brought that to my attention-thank you. Your focus on the subject matter was clear and helpful.

      2. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If I see it, I speak up against it. I'm not shy. We can walk the walk and not be racist ourselves. That makes one more person who is not racist.

        Unfortunately, all races contain racists against another race somewhere.

  2. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Recently, a vid of Santorum starting to say nig.....and then cutting himself off.

    Oh, it's alive and kicking. Just hope that the non-racists will outnumber the racists.

    Code words in the political realm...watch for it!

  3. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Lovemychris

    It is clear you have a clear perspective on life and the truth . It is disheartening to see some who are blinded to the truth even when they are sparing directly at it.

  4. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    "fox is already spewing code words. thats the third time i heard one of their spokesholes say, thug, chicago thug, etc.... meanwhile rove has raised around 250 million bucks to spew the lies. these guys will throw everything they have this summer, you betcha....."

    read the comments!!

    Karl Rove says Obama looks like "Some Kind Of Political Thug": http://bit.ly/HYwmR2


    Remember "Ghetto crack-head"??? Fox....GOP.......trusted?? Oh holy heck!!

    1. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I see your point and how political figures address the President of the United States. They may think their actions are directed at one man but they are setting up precedents for how others in that office will be viewed and treated.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not standing up for this behavior but I don't see that it's any different than calling Bush a Nazi baby killer. All forms of racism and verbal degradation are unacceptable. What LMC always eliminates from her perspective is the fact that both major parties are guilty of this behavior.

        1. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Which Democratic politicians called him that?
          You see--I think it is far far worse for Obama than ever with Bush.
          You had people in the streets calling Bush names, but not fellow politicians. Calling him Boy, refusing to meet with him, yelling You Lie at him....obstructing every single little thing, wagging her bony finger...acting SO superior..to the President!

          But let's not forget Cheney, who told Leahy to go F himself...that has to be the worst manner of decorum witnessed in a while.

          Just all out No Respect for the man in the office.

          so--I DO hope people realize, what goes around comes around.

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I don't hold an entire party accountable for what some men do. I hold the individual accountable. Like when Barney Frank walked out of the committee meeting because he couldn't get his way. Or when Clinton removed all the Ws from the keyboards in the White House and didn't send Airforce I to pick up the new president. No, these are not the same as outright cursing and name calling, but it's all reprehensible and unbecoming conduct. There's an unwritten code which the American people expect from Congressmen, Presidents, and Justices. We've got an awful lot of a**holes there lately.

            1. lovemychris profile image79
              lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Chucky-poo Grassley:   "the American people "r not stupid as this x prof of con law."

              Turtle-Lips McConnell: "President needs to back off"

              Such disrespect! My goodness, you would think these baffoons listened to Russsshhhhhhhhh!!

              Just imagine if a sitting Democratic senator had called Bush stupid!

              There is no comparison. IMO

              And pretending like there is, is distorting the truth.

              .....ooops, that's the whole point!

        2. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nice comment:

          "While I don't agree with everything President Obama says and does, and have been unhappy---sometimes terribly unhappy---with him at times, it's good to see him show a _fighting spirit.  Good, and even remarkable, given what he has been up against.

          I've often referred to the Repubs obstructionism of the past 3 years, as a war of attrition that they declared the day after he took office and one they have been waging ever since.  I call it that because it seems plausible that  at least some of the Hill Repubs hoped to so wear him down, by sinking nearly every piece of legislation he has tried to get through, that his spirit would be broken, in which case he would not (they hoped) even want a second term. 

          If you think about the way they have treated him-- and I believe even his enemies will have to admit that the ostructionism has been almost historic---, it is a marvel that they didn't break his spirit.  He has been called weak by some, mostly with regard to some of his policies, even his attitutde; but I say that a weak man would have_cracked under treatment this_brutal. 

          Whether some of it or even all of it, was _racist, I do not know; I am not a medium whocan read other people's minds and motives.  But whether _racist or not, he surely will go down in history as a president who had to both govern and lead a country against very great , sometimes almost impossible, odds.

          Whatever anyone may think of him, he ought to be given full credit for even being willing to push on, primarily against _Boehner, _McConnell and Company---with, perhaps, the most amazing thing of all being that he doesn't seem _bitter.

          Really, he ought to be awarded the political equivalent of the Purple Heart."

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            One thing you did get right is that the obstructionism was 'almost historic'. And it would have been had not Bush experienced the same thing. They seemed to hate him from the moment the Florida recount was done.

  5. Dame Scribe profile image60
    Dame Scribeposted 4 years ago

    I think it's disgraceful that a 'leader wannabe' would stoop to such levels not to mention those that support such a person. It says a lot about the 'quality' of voters he attracts. Didn't a certain past 'somebody' use a 'hate' method that cost 6M+ lives? hmm

    1. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Dame, I'm sure you're saying something relevant and important but apparently I'm out of the loop I'm not following and I apologize for that.

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think she meant Hitler, and how the Nazi'a treated Jews.....the words they used to desribe them... demonizing them, putting them apart from them--qualifying them as "the other"-- There are very many similarities, I think too.

        You know, the way Sarah Palin called her audiences the "real" Americans. And you know, that awful Obama....palling around with terrorists and pretending to be a Christian.

        "Long live Zimmerman" spray-painted onto black cultural center" http://thkpr.gs/HNh96f
        --Just like paiting a swastika on a Temple.

        Psychopaths.

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's a tough world. Who would have thought 809 million people have died in religious wars. That’s nearly a billion people.
          By comparison, 209 million have died in the name of Communism. Some 62 million died during World War II, civilian and military, on all sides. Conclusively, more people have died in the name of religion than in the name of Communism or Hitler, or the two combined times two.

  6. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    REPORT: Banks more likely to let foreclosed homes fall apart in black, latino neighborhoods http://thkpr.gs/HrFJXQ

    It's systemic!!! We all need to Get aware! So we can stop it once and for all.

    "War on drugs akin to slavery and Jim Crow"--Michelle Alexander
    Blacks 10X more likely to get incarcerated for same crime as whites.

    1. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you lovemychris,

         For providing the explanations to me in underdtanding her comments and thanks for having the will and courage to stand up for the  truth.

  7. feenix profile image60
    feenixposted 4 years ago

    Personally, I could not care less that a high degree of racism exists in the U.S., as well as in most of the remainder of the world.

    That is my attitude because I am a liberated black man.

    In other words, and opposite of the way that most other blacks react to displays of racism, it does not ever break my heart when whites shut me out from something or the other or call me naughty names. And that is because I have no doubt that I am just as "good" as any white is -- and so far as that goes, I am much "better" than a whole lot of whites are.

    Additionally, I do not want, nor do I need, any whites speaking out on racism on my behalf. And that is because I do not want, nor do I need, their kindness, compassion and sensitivity.

    Furthermore, every time I hear whites accusing other whites of being racists, such words as sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocrite, fake, fraud and phony come to mind. And that is because I have been living long enough to know that all whites -- including those who have intimate relationships with blacks -- are biased towards blacks to some degree or the other, just all blacks are biased towards whites to some degree or the other.

    That is what is commonly described as human nature.

    The best thing that whites can do to combat racism is to mind their own damned business. Blacks are fully capable of defending, and speaking up for, themselves.

    And the best thing that blacks can do to combat racism is stop thinking in the "unliberated" ways that were forced upon their enslaved forebears. It is time for blacks to shed the attitude that their well-being and advancement is contingent on whites treating them with kindness, acceptance, compassion, sensitivity and tolerance.

    1. vparker profile image59
      vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You have very good points. Now how do you feel about the internalize racism within the Black community, because its there and alive and well? I love speaking on issues of all kinds, and I see no problem with other races coming together to talk about them. We all belong to one race, the human race. Will we ever live in a color-blind society, hell no! But, life is about progress, and striving towards being a person helping to create a better society.

      1. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        We will never live in a color-blind society, because that is impossible to achieve -- and so far as that goes, it is unnecessary to achieve.

        The only thing that is necessary is for blacks to start taking a wide range of initiatives to clean up their own house. It is time for "us" to band together and effectively address all of the disproportionate social and economic problems that are plaguing America's black society today.

        It is time for a bold new movement, based entirely on unlimited black enterprise, capitalism, self-reliance and self-determination.

        And if blacks undertake a movement such as that, numerous racial barriers will disintegrate automatically.

        Cleaning up "our" act is La Cosa Nostra -- it is "Our Thing."

        1. vparker profile image59
          vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          For things to get better we have to progress as a society.  When human beings come together regardless of race, it is such a beautiful thing. In order for Black people to handle their stuff, this would have to happen : 1) colorism would have to end, no more dark vs light skin, 2)  stop this whole "talking and acting white nonsense" 3) some low income blacks need to stop seeing middle and upperclass blacks as sellouts 4)some middle class and upper class blacks need to stop looking down on the lower class.5) the end of isolation ; you can be black and proud and date outside your race, eat food of different cultures and befriend people of different cultures.

          The problem is that White culture is considered mainstream, while minorities are often pushed aside as --exotic or some subculture. If we could just say this is who we are, and accept the fact that no two black people are alike.

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I totally agree with everything you wrote.

            The problem is, it is going to be very difficult to dismantle ways of thinking that have existed among American blacks for hundreds of years.

            And that is the reason why I believe that "we" must take full charge of "our" destiny. Only "we" can bring an end to all of wounds that "we" are inflicting on ourselves.

          2. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            White European culture has been mainstream in the U.S. for a long time but what I see today is a huge Black African stream, even if not quite main yet. I see white kids who are black wannabes and they choose the absolute worst part of modern black culture to emmulate - things like gangsta rap and pants around their nether regions. I look at Essence Magazine and see beautiful black male and female models and interviewees. I don't think, when I read this, that there are no white models or interviewees in this magazine. I don't take the Black Miss America pageant personally but I do see it as an attempt to segregate or set apart by someone who just up and decided to buck the established competition.

            IMO, feenix is wrong to discount all forms of empathy from other races. It causes isolation. This comment shows a lack of willingness to understand fellow humans, stemming from his own experiences. When we close ourselves off, it is the beginning of the end. We're left with our last impression when there could be many changes, learned and developed in a one on one encounter, that could change our lives or the lives or future generations.

            If the majority of Americans are white, I guess we are mainstream and there's nothing wrong with being exotic or minority. I only means there are less of you. No big deal. It's just numbers. It seems to me blacks have done pretty well in making themselves heard and gaining ground in their own endeavors. Look to your mentors, celebrities, the folks with the money. Forget the dirtbags who speak out against other races and stir up trouble. Keep your own counsel.

            1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
              Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              see white kids who are black wannabes and they choose the absolute worst part of modern black culture to emmulate - things like gangsta rap and pants around their nether regions

              What's wrong with gangsta rap and pants around their nether regions? I think kids carrying guns and killing each other is the worst part to emulate. Moreover, gangsta rap, so called, is quite politically motivated. Who are they really emulating?

              IMO, feenix is wrong to discount all forms of empathy from other races. It causes isolation. This comment shows a lack of willingness to understand fellow humans, stemming from his own experiences.

              I'm sorry, but when did you become an expert on his life experiences, or feel that you were qualified to decipher this comment, with authority, and decide it shows a lack of willingness on his part? Maybe you are the one that shows a lack of willingness to understand the comments of others. You can disagree with another poster, but you cannot put yourself in their shoes, or decide that their life experiences have led to this comment. Only they can do that. I read his post to mean, that he, and other proud men do not want pity. But that is merely my INTERPRETATION of what he is saying. Not fact. If Feenix disagrees, he'll tell me where to go in no uncertain terms. Which is absolutely fine, and why I respect him.

        2. SpanStar profile image60
          SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          We don't need to live in a color blind society society, we need to stop thinking we have the right to label and deny them the same equal rights as everyone and if some of us weren't so blind they could see that.

        3. Hollie Thomas profile image61
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Feenix, you know I love you, and that we have never disagreed, despite coming from opposite politcal spectrums.. However, I have to say,babies are born colour/gender/class/religion blind. We teach them to discriminate. I say the learning begins at home, I have never taught my children to "pity" a black man, or pity a woman or a muslim. I've taught them to respect people, all people. But this is real the world, I've also had to tell them about injustices, the way people can be discriminated against, because of where they come from, the colour of their skin, gender, religion. I don't see how ignoring bigotry can help. I just don't. I'd rather fight it.

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
            Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Amen, Hollie.

    2. lovemychris profile image79
      lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you are alluding to me---I speak up for who I want. That includes women, Palestinians, and all these unwanted children you GOP'ers demand that be born...

      When I see something that makes me mad...I say so.

      That is my attitude.

      1. vparker profile image59
        vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Good for you, and don't ever change.  smile

        1. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks v, and you the same.

      2. wsteveg profile image59
        wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with some of what you have the say about the GOP but I aslo hope you read my longer rant here, that both sides are corrupt and really out for them more than us.
        The GOP does have some valid points about waste. Personally I think we have enough money not to have to cut services to th poor. That said if I was supporting a unmarried daughter who kept having kids I would say  love you and you can have more kids but there is no more money coming other than what you alreay get.
        I am a dem but still don't want to spend my money on someone elses 4 child. The last thought is, and it's BOTH SIES  what every you give congress, they will spend
        On... them >> Thirty-three members of Congress have steered more than $300 million in earmarks and other spending provisions to dozens of public projects that are next to or within about two miles of the lawmakers’ own property.

      3. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You certainly do have the right to speak up as much as you please.

        However, one of the things I am out in the streets doing is discouraging blacks from listening to people like you.

        I know you mean well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.

        1. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No problem....won't stop me from speaking my mind.

      4. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I hope you two are the only believers in Democratic baby killers and black destroyers of youth's hope.

        1. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          HUH?

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, I'm just being sarcastic. You fight for the rights of women to have abortions and I call you a baby killer because you don't fight for the rights of unborn babies. feenix goes onto the streets and tells youths to not listen to people like steve and I call him a destroyer of youth's hope because he doesn't tell them to listen to all sides then make their own judgement. It's like replacing one Farakahn with another.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You remind me of Malcolm X whom I admired. Not sure about you. :-)

      1. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Deeds, for you information, I met Malcolm X when I was 16 years old, I was a student of his teachings, and my current way of thinking is heavily influenced by those teachings.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not surprised. I read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X," and agreed with much of it. His assassination was a tragedy. He was smarter than Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan, in my opinion. I drove by the Mosque where the Nation of Islam was founded in Detroit a couple of miles from where I lived. I gave a copy of the Malcolm's book to the guy in charge of Equal Opportunity in GM with pertinent passages underlined to help him understand his job. I don't know whether he read it. In the 1960s blacks in some of the auto plants were revolting against the UAW. One organization was DRUM--Dodge Revolutionary Union Movement. I wrote the procedure in the UAW-GM National Agreement which provided a special procedure for dealing with discrimination complaints and a UAW Equal Employment Opportunity representative in each plant. I can also remember hearing a speech by Milton Henry, president of the Republic of New Africa at a Detroit Young Democrats meeting. I believe the RNA started in Detroit.

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Interestingly, and unbeknownst to the majority of contemporary Americans, the "natural process of evolution" for the black militants of the 1960s and 1970s consisted of their evolving into conservatives.

            As examples, when I was discharged from the Army in 1970, I became a "fringe member" of the Black Panthers. Also, one of the founders of the Black Panthers, the late Eldridge Cleaver, became a Republican and even ran (as a Republican) for one of California's seats in the U.S. Senate. Bobby Seal, one of the other founders of the "Panthers" became a stone-cold capitalist businessman. And like me, Justice Clarence Thomas was a "fringe member" of the Black Panthers, way back when he was a young man.

            One of the primary underpinnings of such "black militant groups" as the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam and Black Liberation Army was unlimited black enterprise, capitalism, self-reliance and self-determination. And that is the reason why I am always spouting that line.

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Fine, but I don't see any necessary conflict between "that line" and ending discrimination against minorities, women and LGBT in employment, housing, public accommodations, voting and so forth. The dominant theme of our country's history has been equality, and considerable progress was made toward realizing that ideal until Nixon and Reagan turned the clock back with their southern strategy and Reagan's "government is the enemy" mantra.

              1. feenix profile image60
                feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ralph, you just do not get it.

                For black people, the name of the game is for them to establish ways to "keep on keeping on," in spite of the existence of discrimination and other forms of racism.

                In fact, ridding U.S. society of discrimination is a goal that is both impossible and unnecessary to achieve.

                The only thing that is necessary is for blacks, as well as others who are frequently discriminated against, to immunize themselves against discrimination, by constructing their own strong and stable social-and-economic structures.

                That is what Americans of Asian descent have done, and that group has the highest per capita income in the country.

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "Ralph, you just do not get it."

                  You mean I just do not agree.


                  "For black people, the name of the game is for them to establish ways to "keep on keeping on," in spite of the existence of discrimination and other forms of racism."

                  Nothing wrong with that. But many black people look for and have achieved opportunities through integration in corporations and government organizations dominated historically by whites. Tell the many successful black professionals and executives that eliminating discrimination in schools, universities and corporations was not a good idea. (And BTW, in the military service as you well know.)

                  1. feenix profile image60
                    feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    And more power to all of the black people who have looked for and achieved opportunities through integration.

                    But the great big problem with that is, it has benefitted only a relative handful of blacks -- and what backs that up is the fact that blacks' rate of poverty is only one rung from the bottom. The only group that has a higher rate of poverty than blacks is American Indians.

                2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Milton Henry, President of the Republic of New Africa, proposed a cockamamie separatist scheme under which blacks would be given several states in the south, as reparation for slavery, where they would form the Republic of New Africa where they would be in charge. Fortunately, few black leaders supported this unrealistic separatist utopian scheme (and zero whites). Do you think it would make sense for the U.S. military to go back to segregated black and white units?

                  1. feenix profile image60
                    feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I am not even going to dignify the above comment with a response.

                    The only thing you're doing is putting words in my mouth and making a feeble attempt to hold yourself up as a white man who is much smarter than I, a black man.

    4. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      feenix
      It is because people like you if there are others like you don't care about racisn is why other have to keep dealing with it.

    5. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I totally concur.  Racism has, is, and will always exist.  If racism is not overt, then it is covert.  People of color cannot escape it; however, do not use racism as an excuse to not accomplish a dream.   What does not kill one necessarily makes one stronger. 

      Also, Blacks and other people of color must always be better qualified and prepared in order to obtain the desired job and/or career.   In other words, do not let racism defeat and/or demolish you as people.  There will always be others who denigrate and debased you based upon your respective race and/or ethnicity.   That is a sad fact of life but always rise to the occasion.  In essence, not EVERYONE is going to like and/or accept you.  The main thing is to respect yourself and be the best person imaginable.   Dr. Martin Luther Kings expressed these sentiments long ago.

      I would like to add that even though President Obama has been barraged with racial remarks, he remained a gentleman and has risen above such puerile banter!   When Blacks and other people of color make inroads and go on the path less traveled so to speak, there are people who are threatened by the first Black and/or colored face.  That is nothing new in history; however, they must ignore such negative people and accomplish their stated goals.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well stated GMWilliam.
        So many times we travel down these dark roads because when people get old they can no longer deny the truth for the same medicine doctors are using to treat the Black man or the same medicines they are using to treat the White man so you ask yourself hell was all that foolishness about?

      2. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Terrific take on things. Truly terrific.

        It is too bad that messages such as yours are not being delivered to young black people on a constant basis.

        1. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Deliver it. You said you're on the streets.

          (Unfortunately, the young don't often take the advice of the older).

    6. Repairguy47 profile image60
      Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yep! This is exactly why I like you.

  8. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Now is the time to change it. Now, when  the veils are lifting. Admit it, then we can do something about it.

    Just the Tip on a huge scarred iceberg, imo. La'Merica.

    Did you ever hear that saying: "the blood cries out from the ground"? That's what it feels like.

  9. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    "Reuters) - President Barack Obama believes women should be allowed to join the all-male Augusta National Golf Club, the White House said on Thursday, adding pressure on the exclusive 80-year-old organization to change its restrictive policy.

    "His personal opinion is that women should be admitted," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters, saying he had spoken to Obama about the issue.

    "We are kind of long past the time when women should be excluded from anything," Carney said as the first round of the Masters tournament got under way at the Augusta club in Georgia."

    Do I, as a woman, need men speaking up for me?  Heck yes, I'll take it!

    1. couturepopcafe profile image61
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why don't we just let the government run all private enterprise, have coed locker rooms and bathrooms, allow girls on male football teams, etc. Please. Allow the men to have some of their own space. We do not need to be in on all the men's clubs. There are plenty of coed clubs and women's clubs. I don't want men in female places and I don't want to be in male places where men are just trying to be men. Leave them alone Mr. Obama, and stay out of it!!

      1. wsteveg profile image59
        wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Funny!

  10. wsteveg profile image59
    wstevegposted 4 years ago

    I truly believe that the problem is everyone taking sides in politics like it's football. We don't see that both parties are out for themselves and not us.
    As long as we just root blind for Mitt or Obama we lose and they get away with the same old stuff >
    Thirty-three members of Congress have steered more than $300 million in earmarks and other spending provisions to dozens of public projects that are next to or within about two miles of the lawmakers’ own property.


    This shooting in Fla highlights that. Dems want to hang Zimmerman. Rep's want to hug him.
    The truth is we have no idea what really happened.

    I think everyone should read Lawrence Lessigs Republic, Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress—and a Plan to Stop It
    Robert Kaiser's book So Damn Much Money, which also discusses lobbying in Congress

    1. lovemychris profile image79
      lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Actually w, I think it highlights this: It's very obvious what happened, and the R's are twisting it around to blame the victim. The same way they have ignored all the GOP's policies of the past decade, and placed the blame for our situation on Obama's shoulders.

      I'm telling you....all you need to do is google the 9/11 tape with the screams on it...that tells the tale.

      1. wsteveg profile image59
        wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I truly believe that the problem is everyone taking sides including you.
        Nobody wants to wait for the evidence
        As long as people are on a side will will have two corrupt sides
        These are not GOP's. They are Gop's and Dems's
        Thirty-three members of Congress have steered more than $300 million in earmarks and other spending provisions to dozens of public projects that are next to or within about two miles of the lawmakers’ own property.

        1. mrshadyside1 profile image78
          mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wsteveg,you have said it correctly.The "big two" see no color or ethnic background they see only in green and self entitlement and due to our flawed system of government the 1% decide the rules in which we all have to play,and to the men that have nothing in life to work toward don't be fooled it is all just a game for their whim.Power and how they can influence is the topic of conversation around Aspen resort lounges and the great halls of elite clubs.I've seen and heard the laughter and disdain of the elite on issues pertaining to the common citizen with my own eyes and ears.In fact slavery is an issue we all may need to fear if we don't stop bickering among ourselves.

          1. wsteveg profile image59
            wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            >>The "big two" see no color or ethnic background they see only in green and self entitlement and due to our flawed system of government the 1% decide the

            You got it! I finally got my right wing cousin to see that.  As long as we cheer for the Gaints or that Pats we will end up with football.
            For every GOP crook there is a Dem too.

            Even Newt (who I don't like) said there is plenty of money, we just have to cut the stealing

  11. mrshadyside1 profile image78
    mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago

    feenix wow! I've done a lot of reading and I'm tellin' you now that you should put that in a book. I don't think I've ever heard or read anyone put as simple and encompassing handle on the truth of things.Hell whites don't treat other whites well according to history and all of it's brutality. In any country on the globe there is going to be some amount of prejudice.
    As far as slavery goes there is no people that have not been enslaved and yet we are here today.A man is a man and as feenix so intelligently stated no man should wait for the approval of another.

    1. lovemychris profile image79
      lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "The best thing that whites can do to combat racism is to mind their own damned business."

      In other words, sit down and shut up. Same old same old.

      1. feenix profile image60
        feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, when it comes to "black affairs," IT IS HIGH TIME that whites sat down and shut up.

        Just look at what has stemmed from whites sticking their noses into blacks' business: slavery, the Jim Crow laws of the Old South, and the so-called War on Poverty that ignited such things as the break up of the black family and irresponsible behavior by large numbers of black males and females.

        In fact, if whites were doing every thing they should be doing to clean up their own house, they would not even have the time to be inserting themselves into "black affairs."

        1. lovemychris profile image79
          lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          My grandson is mixed race. What should I do---just worry about the white in his blood?

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, why not?

            1. lovemychris profile image79
              lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Because I am white, that's why. And I see what white people do. And I don't want it done to him.

              I would hope if you saw black people abusing a white person, you would do the same.

              1. feenix profile image60
                feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I have killed, in order to defend white people -- and whites have killed to defend me.

                And the reason why I, and the whites I mentioned above, had the courage to defend one another is we were not raised by mamas and grandmas who tried to shield us from the unpleasant realities of life.

                We were raised to be "real men" who could damn well take care of ourselves, no matter what.

                1. lovemychris profile image79
                  lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm not sheilding him from anything.
                  I'm taking his side and standing by him.

                  And you "real" men could use a little humbling IMO. Your hard-headedness is a MAIN part of the problem.

                  1. feenix profile image60
                    feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    It is largely because of the "hard-headedness" of "real men" like me and many others that apartheid did not last in the U.S. for as long as it did in South Africa.

                    For instance, Martin Luther King, Jr. was a "very hard-headed man" -- because if he had not been a "hard-headed man," he never would have been able to spend all those nights in jail that he did.

                    And one of the things that I am most grateful for is, my late mother taught me how to stand alone, without any help from her or anyone else.

                    My mama taught me how to "walk like a man," and largely because of that, I have never had any trouble dealing with racism or any of the other harsh realities of life. And that is also the primary reason why I advanced from poverty to be being the financially-secure and successful man I am today -- even though I have always had to play on fields that were not level.

                2. habee profile image90
                  habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  feenix, I gotta say...you are pretty darn amazing! I have a lot of respect for you.

                3. SpanStar profile image60
                  SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  feenix
                  It I take it is your love for your White friend that you have turned your back against your own race brecause you killed for each other- what sad about this story is even though treated like second class citizens minorities still join the military and gave their life for your friends and for the hate you have for them today.

                  1. wsteveg profile image59
                    wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Somehow we all need to move to the middle. If everyone is on a side we will never win.
                    The Republican Party is one of the two major contemporary political parties in the United States, along with the Democratic Party. Founded by anti-slavery expansion activists in 1854
                    The Democratic Party evolved from Anti-Federalist factions that opposed the fiscal policies of Alexander Hamilton in the early 1790s.
                    We have had 150 years of the two party system, is it better?

                  2. feenix profile image60
                    feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    With all due respect, what you wrote does not make any sense at all.

                    And get out of here with all that "I hate my own race stuff."

                    You've worn that one out. You're beginning to sound like a scratched-up 45 rpm of James Brown singing, "I'm Black 'n I'm Proud."

        2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ending employment discrimination isn't exactly "sticking their nose in black affairs."

          1. feenix profile image60
            feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, it is.

            And the reason why that is the case is every black man and woman in this country is always ready, willing and able to land jobs and earn income all on their own.

            They do not need any help from from leftist white liberals who believe that blacks cannot compete unless special provisions are made for them.

            In other words, the sooner white liberals get out of the way, the sooner blacks will gain the resources to do such things as establish more of their own employment-generating enterprises and high-income-producing entrepreneurial ventures.

            1. mrshadyside1 profile image78
              mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I agree feenix,employment discrimination only increases when you start telling people they have to do this and they have to do that.It causes unfounded resentment.In this capitalistic society the color green is the only color.As you stated enterprise and education in time will overcome prejudice.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Here! Here! Stop coddling people of all races. Either you're qualified for the job or you're not. End affirmative action.

                The only problem with this is if I want to go to work for a black owned enterprise, I can pretty much assume they won't hire me because I'm white, even if I'm better qualified. Not because of outright racial prejudice but because blacks stand by their own and will lift the lesser candidate because he is black. Shouldn't be, but is.

                1. lovemychris profile image79
                  lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What if your mommy is the boss, and your daddy owns the restaurant, and your cousin does the hiring, and your aunt is the selectman, and you uncle the mayor, and the man you give lots of political donations to the governor?

                  You think you might have more of a chance at the job, qualified or not?

                  1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                    couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sure. What's your point? That there's bias everywhere? I'm not arguing right or wrong, just stating the obvious.

            2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Believe me it wasn't white liberals that prevented minorities and women from getting anything but menial jobs in major U.S. corporations and from being admitted to most universities, state and private, before the civil rights legislation of the 1960s. In GM in 1960 there wasn't a single woman, except for a couple of lawyers, beyond a secretarial or clerical level, and there were zero minority secretaries, managers, accountants, etc. In the huge J.L. Hudson department store in Detroit there wasn't a single black person visible in on the floor--the few blacks were out of sight in the warehouse or stock rooms. Detroit Edison was requiring applicants for laborer jobs to take I.Q. tests in order to screen out minority applicants.  Not a single woman had been admitted to the skilled trades apprentice program. And minorities were confined to non skilled classification and were scarce as hen's teeth in the highly paid skilled trades jobs. The discrimination didn't begin to end until the 1960s civil rights legislation was passed. The change didn't come naturally. It was prompted by demands from Martin Luther King and more militant minority organizations, and the civil rights laws were passed with support from both parties responding to pressures from minorities and women.

              I'm sure you are familiar with the sorry history of discrimination in the U.S. armed forces which was ended with a stroke of the pen by Harry Truman.

              1. feenix profile image60
                feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ralph, I am not going to get into a long, drawn-out exchange with you, but the gap between the way you and I see things is as wide as the Grand Canyon.

                I will just say that such things as the Civil Rights Movement, Equal Opportunity regulations and affirmative-action programs are some of the worst things that ever happened to American blacks.

                Those actions and measures served only to sap a huge segment of black society of its will to be self-reliant and self-sufficent, and to "pull itself up by its own bootstraps."

                As a case in point, when slavery ended in 1865, the vast majority of black people were "dirt poor" and could not even read and write. However, by 1955, and without any such measures being in place as Equal Opportunity regulations and affirmative-action programs, black society made one of the greatest comebacks in history.

                By 1955, or less than 100 years after the end of slavery, there was a sizable and growing black middle-class, blacks' average level of education was increasing by leaps and bounds, and a considerable number of blacks had achieved fortune and fame in a broad range of fields with many more poised to join them.

                Then along came such things as the Civil Rights Movement, War on Poverty, Equal Opportunity regulations and affirmative-action programs, and much of America's black society has been spiraling downward ever since.

                1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                  couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow. That's one interesting perspective. So, although the American black of 1955 was gaining in all areas, all of a sudden the entire class of people decided to essentially go on the dole and stop their own progression? You blame that on these programs and possibly rightly so to some degree but part of the fault must lie with the individual. Yes? (And this shouldn't be directed only at blacks but women and whites as well.)

              2. mrshadyside1 profile image78
                mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree with what you are saying but also the world drastically changed in the 70's and 80's and further as time passed.The youth were already being taught that all men were created equal and that racism is wrong.Trust me I'm from Georgia.Do you actually think many of today's business owners really care what color or race an employee is as long as they perform?Athletics did more for reducing racism than legislation,the performance issue will out way all else in the end.With the incredibly popular music entertainment business being dominated by Black Americans the racial boundaries have and will diminish further. This is testament to what feenix is saying,I feel he is offended by the notion that he needs a law to be successful when he can clear these hurdles on his own.I understand being empathetic but sometimes good intentions get bad results,especially when the intentions are based on guilt.A very old American who's skin was dark told me a long time ago that civil rights were fine with him but he didn't want nothing more than to be on a level playing field,he could take it from there. This is and many other things he told me have helped mold the views I have today.In his living room he had an original Confederate flag as well over his dining table.I had to ask and when I did he told me that that flag represented his heritage and that it was not a symbol of oppression but a symbol of perseverance and the strength and will to overcome,his father was born into slavery and had taught him these things.

              3. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ralph - But anyone can pass an IQ test. It may have been a better indicator than a physical test which may have eliminated women. Not saying I have the answer, though.

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  A landmark federal court decision involving Detroit Edison (in a case brought pro bono by Wayne State law professor William B. Gould IV)ruled that employment tests must be relevant to the requirements of the job for which the hiring is being done. Detroit Edison was hit with a big back pay award for people who had applied and were not hired because there were white applicants with higher scores. Since then employment tests must be validated, i.e., shown to be a predictor of success on the job for which the testing is being done.

                  Here's an excerpt of the court decision against Detroit Edison:

                  6

                  The court included a "summary" of its findings and conclusions in its opinion and order in addition to specific findings of fact and conclusions of law. The summary included the following statements:
                  7

                  The evidence was overwhelming that invidious racial discrimination in employment practices permeates the corporate entity of The Detroit Edison Company. The Court finds as proven facts that upward mobility of blacks presently employed at Detroit Edison is almost non-existent, and that qualified potential black employees are refused employment or refrain from applying for employment because of the Company's reputation in the Black Detroit Community for racial discrimination. The Company has taken the position that if any inequities exist between blacks and whites at Detroit Edison, such inequities have accidentally evolved and have not resulted from deliberate discrimination. While this Court believes that the law would require it to find that Detroit Edison has violated the law if it has, without intent to discriminate, fostered practices which have resulted in a racially discriminatory impact, the evidence in this case demonstrates that the Company's discrimination has been deliberate and by design. (Footnote omitted.)
                  8

                  It is the conclusion of the Court, in light of the evidence adduced, that the Company is refusing to acknowledge the obvious and has therefore adopted an intractable position.
                  9

                  The long and short of the evidence with respect to the Defendant Unions is simply that the Unions have promoted the interests of its white members without regard to the interests of its black members, and have ignored the plight of the black members in gaining the equal employment opportunity that is their due under the Constitution and laws of the United States.
                  10

                  The district court opinion, which appears at 365 F.Supp. 87, contains detailed findings of fact and conclusions of law and an order which provides for back pay and requires specific affirmative actions designed to eliminate the effects of past discriminatory practices and to prevent future racial discrimination. The decree concludes with a provision for the payment by "defendants" to private plaintiffs of reasonable attorneys fees and the direction that Edison pay to the plaintiffs $4,000,000 in punitive damages and Local 223 pay $250,000 in punitive damages. The recipients of these damages are stated to be "plaintiffs, including both those individually named as plaintiffs and those comprising the class represented by the named plaintiffs but excluding the United States . . .." It further provides that the court will issue a subsequent order directing the manner in which the money is to be disbursed to the plaintiffs. The award of punitive damages was based on a finding of malice on the part of Edison and Local 223.
                  11

                  All defendants have appealed and the private plaintiffs have appealed from the order dismissing the Association as a plaintiff. The order of the district court from which the cross appeal was taken is affirmed. The Association did not allege either injury to its members or that it had suffered an injury apart from any suffered by its members as a result of the acts of the defendants. Absent an allegation of injury, the Association has no standing to sue. Sierra Club v. Morton, 405 U.S. 727, 92 S.Ct. 1361, 31 L.Ed.2d 636 (1972). The issues raised by the defendants-appellants will be dealt with individually as required.

                  http://openjurist.org/515/f2d/301/equal-v-detroit

        3. junko profile image80
          junkoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ralph Deeds, ending. employment discrimination could have saved African Americans years ago  Now it may be too late. Feenix is jumping up and down talking loud and saying nothing. He insults you because it is his job to place blame on the underclass for their position in American society It wouldn't matter if you were black or white,Ralph . Feenix will attack anybody alive or dead that would dare to give reasons of racism for the plight of the Negro race. The solutions he suggested are unreal and nothing but hogwash. In a economy that offers little hope for the majority race to gain employment, all black folks need to do is get a job and pool their money. Black folks should take out bank loans and become Capitalist. That sounds like false hope he is offering to those that look for real solutions to the plight of the Underclass. Ralph, thanks for your liberalism its more helpful than trues lies.

          1. mrshadyside1 profile image78
            mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I disagree,if you look at the success of immigrants from our southern borders it is proof that the discrimination laws only hurt.As I stated above,in this capitalist society the color green obscures all others.If you have money racial issue seem to subside.I worked for a highway class construction company for years and the owner of the company actually pushed me to hire Hispanic immigrants because of their output in the work place.It's all about the dollar if left alone.

            1. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I know you will probibly agree but I don't think we are in a capitalist society.
              A crony capitalist society yes.
              It makes me cringe every time I hear the GOP's talking about the "free market'
              When anyone complains they are "attacking capitolism"

              As an investor I see this that all the time: Mayo Shattuck CEO of Constellation Energy.The price of electricity paid by residential customers increased 72%.In 2008 the stock price of Constellation dropped from a $107 to $13.00. Mayo was paid in 2010 $15.7 million. The Maryland governor complained about the pay, as has the editorial page of the Baltimore Sun, members of the Maryland Legislature, and some of the largest Constellation shareholders, but to no avail. Mayo  chairs the company’s board, the same board that sets his pay, whose members make a minimum of $195,000 a year in cash and stock for nominal work.

              He got paid 15 Million while the "owners" the stockholders took a bath. They can't stop it cause of stacked boards.

              That's what they do now. The hire a company to set the pay. If I was a Chairman I would hire a firm to suggest the pay. They search every firm in the arena and pay me more. The the next company does the same and pays their guy more. ect ect.  A few more circles of that, it winds up like a corkscrew. They are all making 50 mil a year.

              To bad the workers can't do that too LOL

              1. mrshadyside1 profile image78
                mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I do agree,and feel it's important for everyone to have the opportunity to be educated on the the real issues that have direct influence on the things that shape our lives.Keep up the good work.

                1. wsteveg profile image59
                  wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Makes me too mad to focus on it LOL

                  You can be a capitalist and angry, unlike what the GOP says that you are a traitor if you complain.
                  This was great.
                  I was surprised Forbes ran it
                  Some Tips For The Simpletons of 'Occupy Wall Street'

                  Though certain that “Occupy Wall Street” participants are in large part diametrically opposed to my economic philosophies, anger is the thread that makes us kindred. Much of the simplistic, often puerile, often non-sensible amorphous ranting ought to be “matured” to a more specific platform.  Perhaps my partial list of ills might aid this unorganized mass to channel their indignations more productively:

                  –While banks accepted government loans and support, bankers felt entitled to billions in bonuses paid in 2008 and 2009.  Bank boards were complicit in these awards.  Egregious, unfair, and yes, immoral under the circumstances at the time, these should be “clawed back” (repaid back to the banks) and distributed to innocent shareholders who suffered




                  –Many corporate executives continue to make deca-millions of dollars annually. This is entrepreneurial pay for managerial behavior. They show up to work with no risk whatsoever and get paid like they patented a cure for cancer.  Campaign for shareholders rights via proxy votes to elect directors that represent owners NOT management, and set limits on executive compensation.

                  –Let’s put some of these guys in jail. Ask for an SEC investigation on former Bank America CEO Ken Lewis for withholding information (lying) to shareholders regarding losses at Merrill Lynch prior to the proxy vote. Demand more investigation of the egregious AIG bailout. Why did creditors of this one company get paid 100 cents on the dollar?  Specifically ask why Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein and then Treasury Secretary and former Goldman Sachs CEO Hank Paulson and now Treasury Secretary Timothy Geitner cut Goldman and other banks such a sweetheart deal. All that AIG money went pay huge bonuses to Goldman employees in 2008.  Perhaps it was because Goldman Sachs was such a large AIG creditor and in danger of failure if not paid by AIG in full.


                  Call for further investigation of the ratings agencies. How did S & P and Moody’s justify issuing AAA ratings on hundreds or thousands of tranches of subprime mortgage backed securities when there are less than ten US corporations with this coveted [AAA] rating?

                  –Among the punitive, the vindictive, and pettiness of Dodd-Frank there stands one potentially seismic thought that sits so far not implemented. Title VII or the “Wall Street Transparency......

                  1. junko profile image80
                    junkoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    wsteveg, That was so plain and simple not at all complicated. I think I comprehended that hubsized comment. I think you were saying that a few thousand Capitalist will be super duper rich in a few years. Richer than economically possible for any Government to control. This wealth for a few will come from uncontrolled and unregulated Capitalism, and will eventually cause the FALL OF AMERICA. It's a numbers game played with play money that isn't backed by anything but the Government. The American Dream will be consumed from the top down by GREED. I'm I close to your meaning, wsteveg?

    2. feenix profile image60
      feenixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why thank you very much, Mr. Shadyside. As I have said about you before, you are a voice of reason.

    3. couturepopcafe profile image61
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      But you have no use for white sympathizers so I guess either you're talking out of both sides of your mouth or it's about vanity for you.

  12. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    "Nobody wants to wait for the evidence"

    of what? He shot and killed someone. He should be in jail awaiting trial.I  would be, and so would you.
    What makes him so special?

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thats correct. I am not saying this is right or wrong but the law there says you have the right to defend.
      He says he was punched in the nose, the nose broken, was on his back having he head slammed into the pavement.
      If that is true, in that state he had the right. Period.
      Now to wait and see all the evidence, they decide.
      If the law is wrong, that is a whole different story

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So, anyone who kills someone can just say---I was defending myself? I don't think so.
        He is getting special treatmnt. For what reason? I think that is obvious too. He is in "the club". IMO

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          So, anyone who kills someone can just say---I was defending myself? I don't think so.
          No, of course not. That's why the evidence is needed

          Also many women have been not charged with shooting husbands and boyfriends as they said they have been victims of abuse in the past with no evidence that their life was in danger at that minute. I am just stating a fact, not taking a side

        2. mrshadyside1 profile image78
          mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          With all due respect,what club? He is of minority descent as well.This whole situation is just tragic.Due to "famous" people this whole situation has spiraled out of control which threatens us all.I believe my friend feenix just wrote a Hub on this topic.We will never know the exact events especially now that it has become a three ring circus.This is what those who would subdue you and I want,division.United we stand ,divided we fall as we have been falling faster and faster for the last decade.It is coming and at the rate we are moving now it will be within our lifetime that one day we awake and realize we are no longer free.It has already begun.

          1. lovemychris profile image79
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I don't know where you live, but here, it's a bunch of small towns.
            I am still scarred by a murder that took place in one of these small towns.
            So much obvious covering up and corruption.

            So--when I see a guy whose father is a judge, and whose mother is a town clerk....I get a cold chill up my spine.

            He will never be punished for what he did. They will protect their own.

            1. vparker profile image59
              vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Very scary indeed, and just plain right awful. I would rather be friends with a White person who acknowledges that the world is not fair, then deal with some of the White people who I have met who look the other way. These type of people will not defend you ever, and you can't talk to them about anything. So I see no reason to be friends with people like that, and definitely not date them either.

            2. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm glad you wrote back
              I am a dem and a victim as I am in Santa Ana Ca where it's not safe to walk in the poorer area's
              Two suspected gang members have been arrested in connection with the fatal shooting of a 13-year-old boy in Santa Ana.The suspects are 16 and 18 years old. 13-year-old Rodrigo Valle was with some friends when a group approached them and asked what gang they are affiliated with. When Valle's group didn't answer, shots were fired

              Two Santa Ana brothers have been convicted of the shooting and murder of a 17-year-old boy "disrespecting" ther criminal street gang, prosecutors said Wednesday.Juan Pablo Garcia, 30, and Jorge Armando Garcia, 31,Juan Garciafive earlier convictions considered strikeskidnapping, robbery, kidnapping to commit robbery, carjacking and street terrorism; one prior strike  for street terrorism; one conviction  for possession of a deadly weapon.

              That's live here and what does it bring. Trigger happy cops cause they are scared. In just the last 30 days in Orange County , 3 people have been shot by the police for reaching into the waist band and they all turned out to be unarmed.

              These could be our innocent children getting shot.

              The answer to me is to stop the violence from these animals. Then we can all settle down. I carried a gun when I lived and worked in So Fla. It's a pain. It's not "fun". I only had it because it was bad. As soon as I moved to NC I stopped.

              My thought to you is, I hope you are never attacked, but if you are attacked by someone like the above, that you at least have the right to stop the attack

              1. vparker profile image59
                vparkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Their will always be two sides to every issue. For every person who uses a gun to defend themselves, their is another person who will use it in the wrong way--to harm,  to take out vengeance.  How can we judge rather or not someone is using self defense, or not looking for a fight?  This man needs to be put on the stand. I can assure you, most of us would be in jail awaiting trail if we did what Zimmerman did.

                1. wsteveg profile image59
                  wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Your right.  At the least it looks like he is getting a hard look. Even if I was innocent (as looked at by the law in that state) I would not want to be him.

                  I sure wish we could go back in time and make this england where nobody has a gun but it seems to late as the people above show.

            3. mrshadyside1 profile image78
              mrshadyside1posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I understand your frustration.I am aware of the corruption because I am and still do live outside a small town in north Georgia.Things are the same everywhere,and it makes no difference of race or creed governments that are allow donations and special interests are the problem.People of power are becoming more and more bold in there crimes against anyone they are not aligned with whether it be race politics or corporate competition.The point is that we do have a fairly well laid out system,but due to a few small flaws it has been exploited.The only way we can prevent further exploitation is to stick together and if this growing division remains we can neither set things right or make it a place we want to leave for our young.We have to respect what little rights we have left and due process may be imperfect but it is one of the few rights that remain......At least for now.

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      BTW, Bryan Stow at a Dodger game was attacked by unarmed men.
      He was beaten into a coma for months and almost died.

      In your view, if he had a legal gun, should he have shot them to stop the attack  just before he went into the coma or should he just said that's ok ?
      Or is he required to wait till he is in the coma to shoot?

  13. wsteveg profile image59
    wstevegposted 4 years ago

    From the worlds best lawyer: Gerry Spence http hmm/gerryspence. wordpress. com/
    Pain, Protests and the People
    Posted on October 5, 2011 | 110 Comments

    The Moneyed Master has closed its doors against the people and sits on its money like an old hen on rotten eggs.

    The protests on Wall Street have been overdue but will end too soon. Slaves cannot long maintain a war against the master. A money-made
    U. S. Supreme Court has insured that the Moneyed Master can buy elections, and only the Master has such money. The democratic idea of government by the governed is a myth. One notes that the Republican party is so sensitive to its master’s power that it dare not suggest raising taxes on the Master –- not even an impoverished penny, much less plug the illegal loopholes through which the Master sucks the last of the life blood from the nation. All such slaves know that all power is vested in the Moneyed Master.

    The current protests are curious news. But the media, both the printed and electronic, belong to the Moneyed Master. The people have no voice and their protesting voices on Wall Street and elsewhere are lost in the din of the growling, empty stomachs of children and the sounds of terror from a people who are crippled, not because their arms or legs have been severed, but because they can find no jobs. The Moneyed Master has closed its doors against the people and sits on its money like an old hen on rotten eggs.

  14. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    wsteveg,

    This statement pertaining to a problem area giving you the right to follow someone strange to you and I have no doubt there are others who share the same perspective. Perhaps in the Soviet Union or someplace where individual liberties are not the same as they are in the United States the idea of stalking a stranger would be acceptable. But in a nation that professes to the world to be a free nation that approach says it is not a free nation where as the stranger you are following, in your mind may be a potential threat-you my friend are a stranger to that stranger and they are free to walk the streets without a stranger interfering in their lives whether you know them are not. All men are created equal not just the ones I know.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So you are saying if I happen to think you are following me (or you are following me) from a distance I have the right sneak up and pummel you to the ground and slam you head to the pavement.
      I understand
      I always thought that no one has the right to lay hand on anyone else unless they are struck first

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Again if Martin was being followed he recourse is to call the police, not to strike another

  15. wsteveg profile image59
    wstevegposted 4 years ago

    There is a fine balance between law and order.
    At one point if criminals run wild we can lose, possibly your or my children

    In Orange County in the last 30 day period 3 people have been shot by the police for just reaching towards the waist.
    There were no attacks here and these people all turned out to be unarmed. They could have been our kids.

    The level of violence on the street is what causes this. People being scared causes this.
    People need to stop touching each other. Not for any reason

    You speak of rights and liberties. When it’s not safe to walk, when people are being shot for reaching towards the waist that is a loss of rights for people with no criminal records.
    When this 17-year-old boy was shot for disrespecting" their criminal street gang that is a loss of rights. It turned out to be a mistake, the boy was talking to someone on a cell phone not to them
    But he had a right to say almost anything to them without expecting to be shot.

    Those guys by the way had rights. They were out on bail for having guns and on parole had earlier convictions for kidnapping, robbery, kidnapping to commit robbery, carjacking and street terrorism; one prior strike for street terrorism; one conviction for possession of a deadly weapon.

    The boy they shot lost his right and we all lose our rights when our unarmed children are shot by cops for making a move cause they are scared.

    This thinking that you can just strike anyone because you don’t like them walking behind you, or talking about you has to end.

  16. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Black on black crime is bad and needs to be done away with it for I will not make any excuses for these acts of lawlessness however be advised that racism towards minorities is just as real a threat to the livelihood of Black Americans. From California to New York City African-Americans can consider themselves targets from the mindset of strangers that hate them, not even the president of the United States is beyond being looked at as a second-class citizen-How absolutely shameful!


    Georgia Cops Launch Investigation of Tyler Perry's Racial Profiling Claims

    Movie actor and director files Profiling charges while driving.

               http://www.bing.com/search?q=tyler+perr … ORM=msnwis

  17. prettydarkhorse profile image63
    prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago

    Racism will never be eradicated because for many, the "being" determines consciousness. Only few transcend that. The degree of racism is dependent on heterogeneity of the characteristics of the people in a society and it is true that ignorance is one cause of it.

  18. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 4 years ago

    My wife won't have a black cat in the house.

    My mother lowers her voice when she mentions black people (with a certain anxiety).

    I sometimes panic when I can't see any European faces in a crowd. There are almost never European faces in the crowds where I live and normally that is rather pleasant, but it just takes a virus, a sleepless night, a worry that won't go away and suddenly I am a hopeless primeval mess of fear of the unknown.

    Of course, when some group works these fears up into an ideology of hate it ceases to be a case of sighing over the fragility of the human psyche and starts to be something you really have to fight against.

  19. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Too many of us for too long have convinced ourselves racial attitudes or racial perspectives stems from some internal human characteristic but I say no because racial attitudes has to be learned. Babies born with skin color of White, Black, Brown etc. have no animosity towards babies of a different color now at some point they may become curious as to why another baby is of a different color but they don't hate other babies for that it is only after they began to get up in age that they are affected by their environment, parents, relatives, viewing and listening media, friends do these attitudes began to exist.

    1. Will Apse profile image91
      Will Apseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Fear is not learnt. But it is easily aroused and easily exploited.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Racism is learned and being a racist doesn't mean someone is fearful.  Children learn attitudes pertaiining to race at home as outline at this website.

            http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/19/doll.s … index.html

  20. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Same old Republican crap. IMO
    Because they don't approve of something, they don't want anyone else to have the CHOICE of it either.

    According to my friend, he would not have gotten a good job without affirmative action, and you want to know why?
    And please....no one take offense!

    "In Boston, the Jews own everything, and the Irish run it"
    ....that's how it was back in those days. So, he got a good union job through affirmative action.

    No one forced him, and no one was going around rounding people up. But he and his family prospered because of it.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      >>>"In Boston, the Jews own everything, and the Irish run it"
      ....that's how it was back in those days. So, he got a good union job through affirmative action.

      You sound just like a guy from NC thats sends me emails everyday. He uses the screen name "impeach bobo" just on the other side smile

      I grew up in Boston. Old money wasp's run in not the jews thought I would agree the Irish control a lot of blue collar jobs. And they are all corrupt dems.

      As I said before we need a people's party in the middle ground.

  21. Express10 profile image88
    Express10posted 4 years ago

    Most people in our society don't want their flaws exposed. They say and do as they please and a fairly large number react in a wild manner when their dirt is exposed or when they face real consequences...unless they're rich like the two who called the President racial slurs. People need to be treated as such, they knew exactly what they were doing and apologies for racial slurs is lame, particularly when they're old enough to know exactly what the slurs mean having lived through some of the most blatantly racists periods in American history.

  22. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    So true wsteve! It's been along time since capitalism was "free". If it ever was.

    and: "especially when the intentions are based on guilt." Really? You think every white person suffers from guilt?
    My fam did not come here until 1901, when slavery was over and done.(at least by that definition) As immigrants from Sweden and Lithuania, they had enough predjudice to deal with from the BlueBloods on their own.

    Maybe just maybe you might consider that some intentions come from a place in the heart, not the mind.

  23. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    My friend grew up in Boston too. He's 60 now, and I don't question his x-perience.

    And these "corrupt dems" still run things here, and we are better off than a lot-- despite that.

    What middle ground exactly?

    I say live and let live until you hurt someone else.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think a good place to start is reading Lawrence Lessig. He is a director of the Edmond J. Safra Foundation Center for Ethics at Harvard University.

      As I said I think we need a third party. He is trying to start something like that for the people, to get the money out.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig
      RootstrikersChange Congress, founded by Lessig and Joe Trippi, the Fix Congress First project, and the Rootstrikers project were created to help volunteers to address the problem of money in politics.[22][23] In November 2011, Lessig announced all three projects would become part of the United Republic organization, along with Dylan Ratigan’s Get Money Out campaign

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You might laugh...but Rosanne Barr is interested in a 3rd party too...she wants to combine all the 3rd parties to make one (although I don't see how that can work, with the obvious differences)

        But this is where I'm coming from right now: Get these Republicans out. If not, we are done. And this is no joke, or hysteria....I am serious as a heart-attack.

        Any votes that take from Dems are only helping the GOP.
        Get the 3rd party after 2012!

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I don't laugh.

          I just think if we could get some of the left, some of the right and all of the middle we could win!

          The tea party sort of started correct, then took the hard right (LOL) to cave to the church lady and now they have nothing.

          To get the middle and the moderate gop's (and there are some) middle ground it great

          BTW I am no fan of Newt but even he said we have the money, we don't need to cut services to the poor, just cut the waste and fraud

  24. wsteveg profile image59
    wstevegposted 4 years ago

    >>>the 3rd parties to make one (although I don't see how that can work, with the obvious differences)

    There are plenty of women who are Republican's who just loath Rick S. for obvious reasons.Men too
    Not all Republican's want to go back to prohibition

    That only want lower taxes less corruption and less waste.

    I'm a dem but have plenty of problems with them too. I would go to that party.

    I feel as the police can't seem to protect you, you should have the right to protect yourself.

    Here they passed a law not to tow the cars of illegal immigrants when they are stopped (dui?) with no DL, insurance cause it's hard for them to get them back (so they can do it again?

    1) they would tow MY CAR
    2) If I get hit I want that person to have insurance and a DL so I can collect
    3) the key word is illegal. Why do we bend rules for illegal's? (we could all vote and make them legal but till then)

    Here they are talking about cutting services to the elderly but not to illegal's
    I don't get that either.

  25. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    The greatest nation on the planet and it would appear that evil has been the cornerstone of this great nation since its inception. The endless lies, never ending suspicions, ceaseless scrutiny, eternal hatred, constant fighting for power. Oh yes we is something to be parading ourselves around in front of the world. We wallow in greed and corruption as we raise our fist to all who disagree with us. If we are not fighting outside our borders we are fighting in our borders. "America God shed his grace on thee." Our mindset today would appear to be that these words are offensive." Oh yes we are something. It has however been said by  George Santayana-September 1952

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
       
       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana
       
          WELCOME BACK!

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Its about the money....we knew it for quite a while
      Smedley Darlington Butlerwas a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps,the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. He is one of 19 men to twice receive the Medal of Honor, .

      I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents

      Now I have something very important to watch a special report on Kim Kardashian's Low-Key Dinner With Kanye West

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This all sounds interesting and whatever your efforts were in these activities I'm guessing were commendable. However it is eluding me as to what this has to do with racism in America?

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It started off so well...we came here to be free to worship (and kill the indians) then it all went south

  26. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    "But this is where I'm coming from right now: Get these Republicans out. If not, we are done. And this is no joke, or hysteria....I am serious as a heart-attack."
    ------

    "What happened in Wisconsin fits into the much larger sociopolitical climate in the United States right now, in which endless attacks on reproductive rights are escalating in nature, scale, and intensity. Anti-choice groups want to block access to essentially all reproductive health services, including basics like birth control. They’re being bolstered by politicians who not only support their efforts but actively inflame them with rhetoric, and it’s becoming harder and harder to push back. And more and more dangerous, because to be known as pro-choice and pro-reproductive justice is to be at serious risk of physical harm."

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/2012/04/06/the … -bombings/

    "Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives."

    Ongoing since 1973.

  27. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    I would include these "stand your ground" laws that are being used as a license to kill.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I guess it's all where you come from.
      If you are safe in a gated area, to tell others they don't need to defend themselves is wrong till you walk a mile in their shoes.

      I think of the 75 old man in the projects who gets mugged and beaten.

      " Two teens who admitted to brutally beating and robbing an elderly woman for her prescription pills learned their fate in court on Friday.They left 79-year-old Geraldine Gibson battered, beaten and bruised"

      I am worried about her and not them. This may not happen in your area but it does happen and it's every day in some places

      This is what make people pass the stand your ground laws, they get sick of things like this.

      To me the answer is teach your children not to do stuff this, not to get pissed later when the kid gets shot.

      What about that old lady, its a real case and she died.If she was able to get a gun, in your view should she have be able to stand her ground? (to stop that attack?

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Trayvon Martin was killed in a gated community....

        And he had done nothing, but been the target of a paranoid mind with a gun.

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I saw a witness on TV, a black man who said he saw Martin hit Zimmerman, knock him down jump on top and slam his head to the ground.

          I have an open mind, enough to know that could be possible.

          If you have convicted either one of those guys without seeing that witness, without ballistic evidence coming in you are part of the problem not the solution.

          Why can't you wait for all the facts?

          If you have the ballistic evidence please tell us what it shows?

          1. lovemychris profile image79
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Listen to the 9/11 tape of the screams and the gun shot. Case Closed.

            1. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Listen to the 9/11 tape of the screams and the gun shot. Case Closed.


              You just made my case!

              I heard the tape. I still have no clue. People like you will turn me into a Republican

              If the screams of help turn out to be Zimmerman?

              1. lovemychris profile image79
                lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Men don't sound like little boys.
                And hands are no match for a loaded 9mm.

                1. wsteveg profile image59
                  wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I have seen reports that Martin was 6'1 to 6 3"
                  I don't know. I am willing to wait.
                  Plenty of people have been killed by "litle boys"

                  In your view that 79 year old lady was beaten by "little boys"

                  When to many people get robbed and beaten by little boys the people rebel.They arm themselves

                  In this country we go from one party to the other, one extreme to the other.

                  After Bush, the outrage we got Obama. Then we get the backlash in the mid term.

                  In the end if you root for the pats of the giants, no matter who wins it's still just football.

                  I'm done on the Martin case. You don't have all the evidence. Period. Yet you have said case closed.

                  You are no better than some guy with a hood over his head in SC that has decided too.

  28. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    This was shared by Max Keiser:

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/235076.htm … um=twitter

    same way I feel about Operation Rescue.

    1. SpanStar profile image60
      SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That article was interesting.  I've found that people like these are empty inside and in an effort to make themselves seem important they focus on those who they believe they can intimidate, brutalize with little risk to themselves which is to say you don't hear about the KKK going against the Costa nostra, Mafia-NO but some little black child walking alone they will attack I believe that tells you what kind of people they really are.

  29. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    If you can't walk the streets feeling safe, and can't go in for a legal medical procedure for fear of violence...YOU ARE BEING TERRORIZED.

    No matter who is doing it wsteve--gang members come in all forms.

    I'll add--if you can't protest without being brutalized by the police.

    Too many people in America this is happening to.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I was the one complaining about 3 unarmed people being shot by the police in just the last 30 days in orange county. Just for reaching to the waist

      The little boys running wild on the streets are the root cause of that.

      People are scared. When people are so scared, your son or my son can be shot by the cops for reaching for their car registration

  30. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Scared people have no business carrying guns.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I was the one complaining about 3 unarmed people being shot by the police in just the last 30 days in orange county. Just for reaching to the waist
      The little boys running wild on the streets are the root cause of that.

      So your answer is to disarm the police...cause I guess those guys were scared

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This is every day here. This is where your outrage should be.

      FULLERTON – Two Santa Ana brothers have been convicted of the shooting and murder of a 17-year-old boy in 2007 for "disrespecting" their criminal street gang, prosecutors said Wednesday.
      Juan Pablo Garcia, 30, and Jorge Armando Garcia, 31, were found guilty by a jury of first-degree murder and street terrorism, plus sentencing enhancements for criminal street gang activity and murder committed for a criminal street gang purpose.

      Jorge Armando Garcia, left, and Juan Garcia, right, were found guilty by a jury of first-degree murder and street terrorism, plus sentencing enhancements for criminal street gang activity and murder committed for a criminal street gang purpose.
      COURTESY OF ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY
      MORE PHOTOS »ADVERTISEMENT Both now face life terms in prison without the possibility of parole at their sentencing by Superior Court Judge Richard W. Stanford Jr. on June 3.
      The Garcia brothers were convicted of gunning down Jose Luis Granillo, of Santa Ana, as he was hanging out with friends in the parking lot of an apartment complex in the 500 block of South Lyon Street near Chestnut Avenue at about 5 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008.
      Prosecutors said Jorge Garcia encountered Granillo, whom he did not know, and became angry because he believed Granillo had disrespected him and his gang.
      Jorge Garcia returned to the parking lot a short time later with his brother, who brought a gun, prosecutors said. Juan Garcia then shot Granillo one time in the chest at close range before both brothers fled.
      As his friends were waiting for paramedics, Granillo told them: "I'm dying. Tell my mother that I love her," according to a news release from the Orange County District Attorney's Office. He died less than three hours later.
      Juan Garcia has five earlier convictions considered strikes, from 1997 for kidnapping, robbery, kidnapping to commit robbery, carjacking and street terrorism; one prior strike conviction from 2003, for street terrorism; and one prior conviction from 2007, for possession of a deadly weapon.
      He was also found by the jury, in verdicts reached Tuesday, to have personally used a firearm in the commission of a crime and to have committed the murder while he was out on bail in another case.
      Nine days before Granillo was murdered, Juan Garcia was convicted by an Orange County jury of possession of a deadly weapon in a separate case. He was scheduled for sentencing on that case on Jan. 4, 2008, but he was allowed to remain free on bail, prosecutors said.

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe you can tell me where everybody is getting all these guns?

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          They are there, no question about that.

          My first problem is why are they out>> Juan Garcia has five earlier convictions considered strikes, from 1997 for kidnapping, robbery, kidnapping to commit robbery, carjacking and street terrorism; one prior strike conviction from 2003, for street terrorism; and one prior conviction from 2007, for possession of a deadly weapon.
          He was also found by the jury, in verdicts reached Tuesday, to have personally used a firearm in the commission of a crime and to have committed the murder while he was out on bail in another case.
          Nine days before Granillo was murdered, Juan Garcia was convicted by an Orange County jury of possession of a deadly weapon in a separate case. He was scheduled for sentencing on that case on Jan. 4, 2008, but he was allowed to remain free on bail, prosecutors said.

          1. wsteveg profile image59
            wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have a solution.

            First, the second time a convicted criminal is caught with a gun he gets 25 years no parole.


            The first time a convicted criminal is caught with a gun it's 10 years.

            Make them scared to carry

            In Boston it's very hard to get a gun permit but every crook has one

            1. lovemychris profile image79
              lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I would bet my life that the NRA has something to do with that.

              1. wsteveg profile image59
                wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                steveg wrote:
                I have a solution.
                First, the second time a convicted criminal is caught with a gun he gets 25 years no parole.


                I don't get that. The NRA makes it hard for people to get a legal gun permit

                Or do you not think a second time felon caught with a guy should go to jail for a long long time to make them scared to carry.

                Do you think its ok for a felon to have a gun but not a guy with a clean record

                1. lovemychris profile image79
                  lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Zimmerman had been arrested for attacking a police officer, and had a restraining order on him from a girlfriend...he still was able to conceal and carry.

                  You tell me!

          2. lovemychris profile image79
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps they are police informants...?
            I'm not sure of the numbers, but we have some 600+ informants here alone. That means, they are free to do what they do as long as they help the police convict or entrap others.

            I googled and read once "informants". I was sickened by what I read.

  31. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago
    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I am a Democrat.
      I don't believe in some of the things the NRA says.
      I do believe that it this country the police are not able to protect you (some area's are worse than others)
      I believe that I have the right to protect myself and if every gang member has a gun I as a person with no record should be allowed to have a gun if trained.

      I can tell you, I was in small town NC in a Suburban with a 5 year old and a 2 year old. I came up behind a guy at a light and he thought, mistakenly that my high beams were on. It bothered him.
      Stopped at the light, he came running out screaming at me with a bat in his hand, charged my car at my open window and raised the bat.
      At 3-4 feet he saw the gun aimed at him. He turned and walked away.

      I don't know what would have happened had I not had the gun, why find out


      It seems if you had your way there would have been a chance my kids would have been able to see their dads head split open.

  32. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    I think the NRA facilitates all these guns. That is just my opinion.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Zimmerman had been arrested for attacking a police officer, and had a restraining order on him from a girlfriend...he still was able to conceal and carry.You tell me!
      I think the NRA facilitates all these guns. That is just my opinion.


      On number 1: I have no idea how that happened. Was convicted of all these things.

      (in NC, right now I can go to a magistrate and have you arrested, having never met you)

      I saw it all the time. I saw the police called, investigate decide nothing happened, then the person goes and the person is arrested anyway. Cuffs and jail

      I think the NRA's positon on some things is nuts. That said I like my right to have a gun and they stick up for that.

      The law that allows self-initiated arrest warrants in North Carolina is a topic of contentious debate.

      The N.C. General Statute that makes such arrest warrants possible is 15A-304, which says that judicial officials, which in most cases is the magistrate, may issue an arrest warrant if they are provided “with sufficient information, based on oath or affirmation, to make an independent judgment that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed and that the person to be arrested committed it.”

      The controversy centers on where that probable cause comes from. North Carolina law says any person can take out a warrant against anyone by going to the magistrate, meaning a person can basically accuse anyone of anything and it will go through the judicial process. But in most other states, law requires an official investigation conducted by a law enforcement agency before an arrest warrant can be issued.

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's true. NRA opposes all gun control laws and promotes "will issue" concealed carry permits and "stand your ground" laws which have been adopted by 25 states.

  33. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Well, I think he's a paranoid crazy person who is allowed to have a gun due to special treatment. What that is I don't know...but the fact that his dad is a judge and his mom is town (state?)clerk tells me that may lead to ignoring his problems by their "friends" in the system.
    Or, maybe he's a police informant, in which case, he can literally get away with murder, because he's helping them. I don't know.

    What I do know is that he targeted Martin as a trouble-maker, followed him against the orders of the police/9/11 dispatcher, and killed a 17 yr old kid.

    THEN was let go WITH his gun!!!
    Something stinks.

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Told you I am out on Martin
      You've taken a position using only the info from the side you want to take.
      There is no use going on.
      I don't have the info to make a decision yet.

      I can talk about me, if someone 6 3' breaks my nose with a punch, knocks me down jumps on top and starts slaming my head into the ground, if I can that person is going to get shot

      What is your opinion on that? (Or the guy who charged me with the bat)

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        NO ONE who is unarmed is going to go after a crazy lunatic stalker with a gun. That is my opinion.

        And I see you believe what you want to believe too...you believe that Martin did all that??

        So how about this:

        Suppose Martin had a gun, Zimmerman chases him, they get in a scuffle, and Zimmerman was shot and killed....

        You think Martin would have walked out of that police station free, and with his gun?  All he had to say is "self-defense".

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          1) What about the guy who charged me with the bat ? I had a gun.

          2) I never said that. I said if what...is true. I also said if Zimmerman just shot him with no blows thrown he should FRY. I am waiting to see everything.
          Power burns should show the range. There will be the trajectory of the shot
          If the witness I heard is telling the truth (if he knows Martin) If anyone else saw it and who makes more sense.If there were or were not wounds to Zimmermans head and who saw them (friend of Zimmerman)

          3) I still think there is not a chance in heII that they let him walk with the gun, that they did not take it for tests as they do cops guns used in a shooting. I think you are falling for someones propaganda

          If you were correct we can just close the trial courts and save millions. Just let the jury read the papers and watch a little tv and decide (I forgot...and check their twitter acct's)

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      >>>THEN was let go WITH his gun!!!Something stinks.

      I think that's an out and out lie.

      Please show me a link to that from a news source

      1. lovemychris profile image79
        lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I can't link....only from things that come up on my twitter. You will have to do it.

        (my computer is infected> HAPPILI virus. Malware)

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I googled it and find nothing

          twitter does not make it true

          I will twitter that you have a million dollars. Please come and give me 500,000 in the morning

        2. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          From a liberal anti NRA paper Mother Earth News "Police seized the gun George Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon Martin, Mother Jones has confirmed

          The Money Trail Behind Florida's Notorious Gun Law | Mother Jonesmotherjones.com/politics/.../NRA-stand-your-ground-trayvon-martinCached

          Mar 29, 2012 – Police seized the gun George Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon Martin, Mother Jones has confirmed

        3. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Mother Earth is a liberal paper. They say the gun was taken. I tend to believe that.(but still not 100%-I only believe 99% of what i see with my own eyes)

          My cousin is/was a semi tea party type guy. I am on his mass email list.
          I got one from them about giant awards to people who sue for nothing. There were 10. One was a women who bought a motor home, put on cruise and went to make coffee in the back.She crashed She got a million+.
          The idea is to get people so pissed and take away our right to sue big companies. These tea party people were all outraged. people getting money for nothing.
          I looked all the cases up and there are all fake.
          I told him I would be outraged at these people for making you look like a chump!

          Someone is making you look like a chump on the other side. I would be outraged
          When people make things up there is blowback
          My cousin is now more in the middle now.
          Seeing people like you, so one sided  makes me want to join the NRA to protect my rights to have a gun and I am a Dem (your side)
          I have used a gun to stop someone charging me with a bat right in his tracks.

          1. lovemychris profile image79
            lovemychrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            If you believe Zimmy--we are on opposite sides.

            oh look! another one:
            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trayvon-kill … -declined/

            Plus, two women neighbors who heard it, and said the screaming stopped after the gun went off....experts said it was not Zimmy screaming.

            Sory....the one being fooled is you. And Fox snooze is the best psy-op around. Just look....they are the most trusted by far.....

            It's not me being played.

            1. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I said quite clearly I don't believe anyone (yet)

              You said we are on opposite sides. I think he could be guilty, or innocent by the law in that state.

              There are supposed to be no sides in our system.
              People are suppose to come in with a clear and open mind (that you don't have)

              You said it yourself " we are on opposite sides" that means you are on a side.
              As I said before you are no better than that guy with the hood in SC,your just on the other side.
              I'll wait till I see everything and who is saying it.


              Your story >>....spoke to an anonymous eyewitness and she said...
              That's where you put all you weight? This means nothing to me yet.
              Other people say the opposite.
              The screams stopped. There is no proof (yet)as to who was screaming.

              There are witness saying something else. I don't accept either, yet, till they get on the stand. Zimmermans witness could turn out to be a cousin but so could these anonymous witnesses. You leave no room for that

              There is nothing in your story about the cops letting him walk away with the gun as you have said. I am 99% sure thats a lie and you are spreading it cause it's on your side. A smart person would say, someone is spreading lies, how many more are there.

              You should hope if any of your family are charged with a crime, there are no people like you on the jury,with only part of the story in, or only paying attention to the evidence on the side the chose to hear.
              It could turn out bad.
              As I said before if we did it your way we could save millions.
              No trail, just pick 12 people, tell them to watch TV and check their twitter acct and then pick guilty or innocent.
              In the end I don't think that would work out well for "your side"

              The good news is that since you said "they even let him walk away with his gun" I researched it and see not one bit of proof, and you can't find it either.
              It makes me see that "your side" is just as willing to spread lies to get their way as the GOP. I think I need to join the NRA to counter the lies being spread.

  34. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    Ohh, OK:

    "Zimmerman's attorney is now saying that Zimmerman was suffering from "Shaken baby syndrome" during the supposed attack and wasn't in his right mind. His lawyer will go for diminished capacity. Zimmerman may just get 6 months of hospital stay and then set free."

    Twinky defense.....

  35. 0
    Deb Welchposted 4 years ago

    At the very beinning of this Forum - I read that our President - Mr. Obama - was called a 'tar baby' - what low life person said that?  In Slave Days - black men were tarred and feathered for whatever crime thay may or may not have done.  Can you imagine pouring hot tar onto bare skin and then poking white feathers into it?  The black man usually ran if possible into the closest body of water to soak the steaming tar from his skin - and mostly it would peel the skin right off or the tar would suffocate him to death.  White men at that time in history were slaves of Satan.  Here we are in the year of our Lord - Jesus Christ - 2012 - and labels are still being used - and most don't even know what they are referring to.  That is so sad.

  36. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6439126_f520.jpg

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6439086_f520.jpg

    1. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      + a milmillion times.

    2. Express10 profile image88
      Express10posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Can I please get this on a t shirt smile

      1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
        Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Sure, drag and drop the images to your desktop, copy it to a disk and then go to the yellow pages for a local screen-printer of t-shirts.

  37. lovemychris profile image79
    lovemychrisposted 4 years ago

    NRA has become a rogue operation. Just like Operation Rescue. IMO. Death is their aim. And Mayhem. Better keep an eye on them and Fox these coming months....Obama is doing very well...they will need something horrible to happen to take our minds off it. Beware, the Ides of Righty-ville.

  38. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    How Conservatives Think . . .


    http://youtu.be/jXGO5p6hjws

    1. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      and... I am a Dem/ Ind

      Every eight years we seem to change partners in disgust and we get more of the same.

      We the people get scr ewed while they (both parties) ride off into the sunset with the girl.

      If I was to guess there are just as many Dems indicted as Rep's
      If you saw my post "Thirty-three members of Congress have steered more than $300 million in earmarks and other spending provisions to areas within two miles of their own personal property". This list is pretty equal or even leans to the Dems

      What is you solution? More Dem thieves?

      George Washington Farewell Address 1796

      The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.
      The common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
      It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.

      1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
        Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        My solution is to stop the war and recognize that we see things differently and that if we are to get anything done of benefit to Americans then we have to compromise.  Cut spending, raise taxes and invest in America's future.

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I guess we are pretty close.

          I'm a dem but I keep in mind that there are as many (if not more) D's as there are R's on the list below.
          Money is the huge issue on both sides and just going after one side does not kill the beast

          List of American federal politicians convicted of crimes
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Am … _of_crimes

          1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
            Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That list and your point has nothing to do with this thread or the issues here.

            1. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You posted this>>> How Conservatives Think . . .

              Please make the same statement to yourself wink

              1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image61
                Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That link was a lot closer to the topic here and the posts above than your list was.   

                I meant no offense; I just couldn't figure out how  a list of offenses of both parties had anything whatsoever to do with the topic.

                At least my link tried to provide an explanation for how the differing ideologies influence positions

                1. wsteveg profile image59
                  wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It's ok. I think it does have something to do with the subject.

                  When people go to far to any side it can have backlash.

                  Personally I think somehow we need a third party

    2. wsteveg profile image59
      wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There are two sides to every story.
      Unions are great to protect our mine workers from the greed of mining companies who want to disregard safety for money, but on the other hand sixteen city teachers have been singled out by education officials for pervy classroom behavior — but they can't be fired

      You don't have to be on a side,
      A Free Thinker Laura Nyro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo6Rp2G3o3Q

      You don't have your own
      You're livin' thru others
      Toss and turn at night
      but you play it demure
      and whats more
      you don't think you've got the right
      to be a free thinker
      You could give yourself the right
      You could shine your special light

      Are you a consumer
      A mere number on a supermarket line?
      wear a perfect mask
      and never show your feelings
      maybe you can make the time
      To be a free thinker
      You could find your own style
      You may feel more alive
      Do you ever wonder

      Can we save our planet
      and where will it go in time?
      White hawk's destroy
      And healer's send joy
      back to the starry nite line
      for a free thinker with some individuality
      you may find you feel more free

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Laura Nyro was a great singer and original song writer. Too bad she died so young.

        1. wsteveg profile image59
          wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It was Ralph and maybe preventable. Her mother died of the exact same thing, at the same age.(I'm in her biography)

          She was most proud of her work in Broken Rainbow.
          1985 documentary film about the government-enforced relocation of thousands of Navajo Native Americans from their ancestral homes in Arizona. The Navajo were relocated to aid mining speculation in a process that began in the 1970s and continues to this day. The film is narrated by Martin Sheen. The title song was written by Laura Nyro, the theme music was composed by Paul Apodaca, with other original music by Rick Krizman and Fred Myrow.It won the Academy Award for Best Documentary

          I got the chance to talk to Maria Florio and Victoria Mudd the writers/ producers. It's very moving and will bring you to tears.
          It's really all about the money.

          Part 1 of 7

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iN3zdpdgvY

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
            Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Joni Mitchell is another of my favorites. I heard her in person in the early 1960s in a small bar in Detroit when she was singing with her then husband Chuck Mitchell. I guess we're getting off topic here.

            1. wsteveg profile image59
              wstevegposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              >>> I heard her in person in the early 1960s

              Nice... but my God (can we say that here,I don't want to alienate the atheist block) how old are you...I was 4 listening to mother goose

              You look so young, I never thought the 82 on the pic of you was your age:)

  39. Eaglekiwi profile image76
    Eaglekiwiposted 4 years ago

    Racism has been modified over recent years and held more accountable in some society's ,more so than others, but I think it will always co-exist,along with corruption and greed.

    Human thing.

 
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