Obama has become the first sitting president to openly support gay marriage. Will this help or hurt him in the election? Does this signal a sea change in how our country views gay rights?
he has said for many years that he struggled with this ,personally,but since he has to represent all the people,it is probably a political move.
Segmentation of voting
African Americans and Latino
Whites - divided
young - for Obama
older -- not sure, maybe leaning against Obama - They are more conservative
by gender - women and gays
men are divided, could be segmentized by race
Yes, minimal. But social change towards acceptance of gay marriage is not dependent on view of a powerful individual.
No matter what the reason, he said it and it will stand forever.
I am sure the NC decision helped spur him on to make that decision when he did. When 48% of the population say they are against gay marriage it will hardly get people to vote for him. It may lose him as many votes as it wins him.
In an election year a president can't do anything without being accused of doing it for political reasons.
Interesting that you quote that stat. The most recent stats from the Pew Research Center have more Americans supporting (47%) than opposing (43%). It's only a small margin, but that margin is steadily increasing. http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynu … berID=1497
If you take the politics out of it I think it is about time that the subject is moved forward on the national stage. It's interesting to see some of the 'hate' mongering by some catholic commentators (not all) and I wonder how they reconcile this with the message that religion is supposed to have.
For me it has nothing to do with me; who someone falls in love with an marries has no bearing on my life therefore I have no right to judge or remove the rights of these people.
The validation that President Obama has given the movement is a great one that hopefully will bring full equality in the future - politically it could be a bad move especially in some conservative states - but I'm sure that he wouldn't have been allowed to say it if someone in his team hadn't checked out the stats and calculated the political gain or loss!
Although I welcome the "announcement" by the president, and that comment will be reported all over the world, it is easy to see why some think he did it for political gain. He needs to get re-elected. It's a pity he didn't make his position clearer sooner.
I wish he had the ability to think past his own jobs worth. Some politicians just use the issues relating to LGBT people as a political football. His earlier hesitation just showed his lack of ability to "read" the public mood.
I know some folks in the USA who who won't vote for him, precisely because he didn't do enough on the gay Question and on legalized marriages or same-sex couples rights. Eloquent speeches are one thing, actions are quite another. But he is more liberal than Bush was!
I think it's a hard sell to say that he did this for political gain (although as president I don't think there is any action that he can take that won't impact him politically). Whether he will gain politically from this is up for HUGE debate, with many thinking it will do more harm than good.
And, I'm fascinated by your comment that he is more liberal than Bush was. Does anyone think he isn't???
It goes to prove that Obama, or anyone else, who supports same sex marriage, is a bigger person and not an ignorant bigot spurred on by mainstream religion.
We have a terrible economy,wars,debt that will never be paid, and this issue is what moves you. Please, don't vote!
I'm doing fine economically... I'm not fighting in a war... and the debt is representative of what the average american's checkbook looks like. I simply don't care about those things as they don't effect me personally. The issue of Gay marriage does however. Priorities are different with each person... So yes this is what moves me... If it doesn't move you then please don't vote I guess.
You are a shining example of whats wrong, none of it affects you personally so it doesn't really exist.
Fine....let's make marrriage ONLY between same sex couples and go from there.
From now on....men and women can only have civil unions. Kiss all those bennies...buh bye.
Then you can not vote for the guy who supports your equality under the law.
This is THE issue to vote on!
1. Recognition as Equal human beings
2. Tax bennies the married ones get
3. The same rights they fight and die for everyone else
Being an equal human being....this is the first thing that matters. Second class status no more.
Any one else out there who gets shafted on a regular basis
Sorry Thurston, times they are a-changin
I agree, the times are changing. Actual problems are being overlooked in favor of this ridiculous waste of time. In all States where the proposal has been put up to the people to vote on it has been soundly defeated! Even your savior (Obama) agrees it should be left up to the States, you might want to ask yourself why that is. Could it possibly be he doesn't really support it and KNOWS we the people don't either? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Agreed. Social conservatives should stop wasting everyone's time by pestering legislators and the electorate to pass anti-gay legislation (DOMA and amendments to state and the federal constitution). You do realize that they're the ones spearheading all this "effort", right? The current fight is to reverse all the wasteful damage they've done.
Maybe you can come up with a reason why people trying to restrict the harmless, and actually beneficial, freedoms enjoyed by others should be indulged.
No, I don't realize that. The Defense Of Marriage Act isn't anti-gay, thats all in your head. Wasting time putting this up for a vote when it will NEVER be passed by the States is just silly. But, I applaud the effort.
I'm going to assume you're just trolling at this point. Have fun.
My assumptions about him are a little different but they still lead to the conclusion that he isn't worth any more of my time.
I feel like I've come to the same conclusion (about him not being worth my time) before. My memory ain't what it used to be!
Bah... he's okay to play with when a baby is kicking the crap out of me at 2 in the morning and I can't sleep... It kills the time... I'm actually watching Blue's Clues right now though so I can't be bothered. Joe is about to find the third clue!
Typical, you only converse with those who agree with you.
Discrimination IS the actual problem!
I forgot to add those with no money....they are discriminated on in every aspect of life.
Obama said his kids really lead him to see the error of his ways....having kids meself, I know just how this happens. The future is for the young...leave the past in the past.
Morality of money moms and apple pie is over. This generation of old folks are the last to see it.
oh, and this "savior" stuff....you are not supposed to say things like that. You are supposed to be civil and not insult my support for Obama. Or I will be forced to insult you and get yelled at for it.
Then why have conservative politicians overlooked all the other problems and pushed for votes on denying gay marriage? They were the ones not willing to discuss the economy and concentrated on gays and birth control. Now he took a stand they say it's meaningless. Beside, human rights are never a waste of time.
I knew you would come out with the party line
Thats a good one, for the first two years the Republicans had no say. This time around they are standing up for their constituents and you call them the party of no. It really doesn't matter what you say Obama loses and we will benefit because of it. Keep trying though.
Let's not forget which entity is a huge funder of anti-same-sex marriage legislation.
We saw it here in CA with Proposition 8.
That would be the Mormon Church.
Could this announcement by Obama have smart political motives given the "presumed" GOP nominee and his religion?
There are a lot of folks in the middle who mistakenly think Romney's a moderate. This is just one (of many to come) ways Obama is framing the issues and showing that Romney doesn't stand FOR anything.
You can't define yourself as a candidate for POTUS simply by being against everything.
America's fed up with the Party of NO.
You really haven't thought this one through have you?
I love this, pass any law whatsoever and conservatives will wine about government intervention in peoples lives and taking away their freedoms, make an announcement that may spell freedom and less government intervention in the lives of up to 10% of the population and it's either christian disgust or dismissal, you can cut the hypocrisy with a knife.
Way further than this comment.
Bring it on, Mormons.
Found this on the link below and liked it so much I had to reprint the entire article (not very long but really on point.www.alternet.orghttp://www.alternet.org … ealthcare/
Why "Flip-Flopping" on Marriage Equality Is Nothing Like "Flip-Flopping" on, Say, Universal Healthcare
Right-wingers instantly settled on "Flip-flopper!" as their principal line of attack after President Obama declared himself in favor of gay marriage -- the word "war" was taken out of that Fox Nation headline, but it went from "Obama Flip Flops, Declares War on Marriage" to "Obama Flip Flops on Gay Marriage," and Rush Limbaugh whined the same talking point ("So when Obama flip-flops, it's called 'evolving.' When Romney evolves, it's called 'flip-flopping'").
But here's the thing: we're used to seeing people change their minds about homosexuality. An awful lot of older Americans had to go through an evolution of thinking before they were able to see gay people as fully human and worthy of respect. (That's true even of people who are gay themselves and who internalized society's contempt.) Fewer young people have had to go through this (although it's not as if homophobia is nonexistent among the young) -- but even young people who've never had a struggle on this issue have watched plenty of people struggle and evolve, quite possibly including their own parents and grandparents.
You can't say the same thing about, oh, say, the bailout of Detroit, or universal health care coverage with an individual mandate, or many of the other things Mitt Romney has flip-flopped on. Nobody grew up hearing picked-on kids being called "auto bailer-outers," only to realize years later that auto bailer-outers are human beings worthy of respect. Obama's changed position on an issue that taps into deep feelings people have about themselves and others; Romney flip-flops on ... well, pretty much anything.
And even when Romney flip-flops on more profound issues -- gay rights in general, abortion -- he's self-righteous on both sides of the issue. Here he is on abortion in 2002:
a's changed position on an issue that taps into deep feelings people have about themselves and others; Romney flip-flops on ... well, pretty much anything.
And even when Romney flip-flops on more profound issues -- gay rights in general, abortion -- he's self-righteous on both sides of the issue.
[There's a video here of Romney on abortion in 2002 but for some reason it didn't come across]
He's self-righteous on the other side now -- as he's been self-righteous on multiple sides of multiple issues. Obama used to oppose gay marriage, but he was never a self-righteous opponent. It's different.
So, no, the "Obama flip-flopper" dog won't hunt.
Who cares if he flip flops or not? He is one of if not the nastiest politician a presidential contest has ever seen. Tricky Dick has nothing on obama. obama makes nixon look like a piker when it comes to dirty tricks. He will say anything, lie, tell the truth, twist the truth, and make up crap to get reelected. He is not doing it for the people of this country, he is doing it so Michelle will take his gonads out of her purse and let him see them again. He is probably the most arrogant, greatest self serving hypocrite, the office has ever seen. He thinks our money is his to spend as he sees fit, because in his mind to are too stupid to know how to spend it or not.
Bill Clinton couldn't hold a candle to this guy. At least Bill was a good ol boy and not some mob supported disaster.
I predicted him would be a disaster before he assumed office and he has not disappointed. This country will go to hell in a hand basket if he is reelected. Yeah even worse than it is now.
I'm surprised and fearful, and grateful.
It is a heck of a gamble. The country is polarized, and the GOP will use this as a weapon against Obama and use it to spur conservatives to a frenzy, when in fact the economy and other issues are more pressing.
As usual, gays will be the punching bags. More and more laws being passed against us ... I've been jerked back and forth for a decade now with California's anti-gay ballot measures. Every time I think we might, just might be allowed to provide for our families, boom, there's another appeal and another long court battle, and meanwhile, real families, real people are stuck in legal limbo, with consequences to their health and their children.
Yes, gays do have children. My best friend (straight) had lesbian parents, and the sad thing is that the law still treats her as the child of a single parent. So much for the other parent who provided for her and raised her. When her legal mother had cancer, my friend was afraid that if her one mom died, she would've had to be sent out of the country to grandparents in a foreign land she'd never seen. And then she felt bad for being selfish at such a time. Thankfully, her mom pulled through, but what a thing for a kid to have to worry about! It's things like that which make the laws banning recognition of gay relationships so problematic.
Every gay family has stories like that. The consequences of other people passing laws against them have effects that those who vote can't imagine. The Defense of Marriage Act and its ilk don't defend marriage; all they do is cause hardships for people and kids. I have a hard time understanding why coalitions waste MILLIONS of dollars getting laws like that passed. That's money that could be helping people out -- maybe even helping real families who are struggling, like vets who sometimes have trouble when they come home. You know, actually defending real marriages!
So that's how I feel about it.
At the same time, I appreciate that Obama had to wrestle with his religion -- for all the conspiracy theories, he is actually a Christian and a member of a black church, not a particularly pro-gay environment -- and I understand why he had to grapple with his faith. I've seen my Republican father make a similar journey. As did Cheney, for that matter.
Anyone who thinks this is a political ploy is mistaken. Obama just alienated a lot of black and Hispanic voters that he's going to need. If he were trying to chart the safest course to election, he'd stick to what worked last time and not take that risk.
And me? I'm still afraid. I'm scared of backlash. Of new laws being drawn up against us, of the next round. I wish I could take comfort in having a president voice his support, but there's less than nothing he can do -- he's not the one drawing up ballot measures and drafting laws. The majority gets to rule the minority, and the majority in this country still feel entitled to take rights away and pass laws against a minority... Laws that benefit no one at all.
That's sad, you know?
You're probably right about alienating the blacks and hispanics but maybe there wasn't too much wrestling with his faith needed. As I understand it ('m not an American) Obama belongs to The United Church of Christ which according to one article I read "emphasizes the freedom of the individual conscience over adherence to creeds or hierarchical authority".
http://atheism.about.com/od/barackobama … ligion.htm
"The United Church of Christ is the largest Christian denomination to come out in favor of "equal marriage rights for all," which means full marriage rights for gay couples, but there are many individual churches which do not support this."
Nothing to do with Obama but has there ever been an atheist US president? I have heard that it would be politically untenable to be an unbeliever. If so, an atheist presidential candidate would probably either be required to pretend to be a believer, whether they were or not, or face almost certain defeat. Or not run at all.
Edited: Meant add. Our Australian Prime Minister who IS an atheist and is not married but lives with a man, remains steadfastly opposed to gay marriage, apparently for the single reason that 'marriage is between a man and a woman' but more likely because she fears some sort of electoral backlash, even though most Australians are in favour of gay marriage.
As he's not my President, his support declaration is somewhat irrelevant...
What I found very positive in the interview that I saw was; that he stated (very well I believe) that kids throughout the world today, do not judge in the same way as adults, in that they (his own kids as well) accepted gay peers in a far less discriminant manner!
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