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The corupt Illinious governer.

  1. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    What do you think, did Obama have something to do with the scadle or is he innocent?


    I really don't know what I think except that I sure as hell hope that Obama didn't have anything to do with that and when Obama was commenting I did notice that he almost said, "we" but changed it to "I" had no involvment with that...

    Sounds a little fishy seeing as though his advisor what's her name gave up the run for Obamas senate seat just in the nick of time.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I heard FBI has a tape which mentions that the governor considered some sort of return for bestowing the senate seat.  We don't know anything as of now and they are still investigating who all are involved in this? I personally hope Obama isn't involved in such  cheap politics.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_ … tion_probe

        That's link is for people who didn't watch the news yesterday.  I hope not either.

    2. BDazzler profile image83
      BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I've lived in Chicago. This is just the way politics works there. In a twisted way, it works well.  The running joke in Illinois was "vote early, vote often", it was an open secret that the early voting and absentee voting could be"enhanced" with the proper donations.

      Obama, as an IL politician, especially a Chicago politician at least knows where the bodies are buried and as a high ranking politician has likely benefited from it.

      Of the recordings the FBI has released, it does appear that the Governor is frustrated that Obama would not play ball with him as much as he wanted.

      Obama's involved at least along the edges, but there are two questions that we may never know the answer to:
      1. How much did he know
      2.  How much did he benefit

      BTW, I think the Gov probably rigs the IL loto and that 666 in the Pick 3 was his little statement about his actual opinion of Obama.

  2. allshookup profile image61
    allshookupposted 8 years ago

    If Obama did have anything to do with it, I think they'd keep it hidden from us.

  3. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    Obama is a successful politician. To be a successful politician, you need to be corrupt. The failures are the honest ones smile

    It is the way the system works and is set up to continue working.

    Anyone who believes otherwise is fooling themselves. He has already made it clear that the "changes" he was promising will have to wait.

    About 4 years would be my guess.......

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      why can't we have someone like you be a governor or senator?  America sucks more and more everyday.

      1. BDazzler profile image83
        BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Why Sandy, are you suggesting Mark is corrupt enough to be a successful American politician? big_smile

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          No, just more honest. smile

      2. Misha profile image75
        Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Cause people like Mark don't go there smile
        Those who try either change or fail... Did anybody say change? yikes lol

        But why does this matter? Your life is your business, not anybody else's. And good or bad president can't make you happy or unhappy - only you yourself has the power wink

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Well I think that is a little bit of bullsh*t.  I could tell ya I would be a heck of a lot happier if it was for being rated by a number listed under my social security number that denies my right to have a home or rent one for that matter. 

          A good president could do away with classifying people by how much money they have and give people some "real" equal rights, not just a few who can afford it. 

          A good president could see that a person "goodness" is not judged by their shortcoming via, losing a job to pay for their mortgage or getting credit cards to pay the bills and feed the family. 

          I could totally be a lot happier if the one who runs this shithole called America would do something about the amout of crap that trickles it's way down to screw 98% of America while giving perks and money and a good living to those who don't give two shits about the hard working people who slave day and night just to make ends meet.

          sometimes I wish I was a foreigner because foreigners get more benifits than the citizens do.  Maybe it is different out thier in virginia but in California, Mexican's are allowed more benifits than a person born and raised in the good ole USA. 

          Yeah, I can be happy, I have that power but be real, how happy can a person be knowing that having a roof over their head and thier kids is not a guarantee?

          I was homeless last year for the same political bullshit that hit the fan when my ex lost his job out of the blue after the government withdrew our few pennies from the bank without our knowledge, garnished my ex's wages and then fired him all in the same month. 

          And what is worse, they did it all for their "$500.00" fuc*ing dollars that they surely did not need to take from us knowing that that was all we had and that that money was for the rent. 

          $500.00 dollars!!!!  You really think it is fair to make someone homeless over this amount of money that they just don't need for things we never supported? 

          I love ya Misha, but we see things from a totally different perspective when it comes to things like this.  smile

          1. Misha profile image75
            Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Sandy,

            I know it is hard. But ask your God, the one that rightly kicks everybody's ass. I bet he will answer something along the line - it's all in YOUR mind Sandy, it is all how YOU choose to look at it.

            World is not fair despite of what you've been brainwashed into. Period. Live with that and choose to be happy smile

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjnvSQuv-H4

            I wish Jenny or Jewels will chime in here and say it in more comprehendable terms smile

      3. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        lol

        Well for a start, I am not a natural born American.....

        But even in my own country, the things I would want to do would not be very popular with the powers-that-be.

        Like investing in renewable energy, taxing the petrochemical and pharmaceuticals into extinction, building a state owned public transport system that worked and allowing the car makers to fold, and rewarding those that I would consider to be worth rewarding like the teachers and the nurses instead of the bankers and the financiers and the footballers. Hah ! Fat chance.....

        And even if I could, there would be too many opportunities for this not to work. And too many inducements to allow any but the most determined to continue.

        It is not just the USA. There are riots in Greece, protests in England and China as we speak.

        The machine will crush them. As it always does - until such times as the people rise up en-masse - and replace it with the same thing...... sad

        You want change in America, you are going to have to revolt.

        If Barack Obama makes one single, significant change I will eat my shoes. With relish.

        A few weeks ago, every one was all excited that there was an "African American," elected. lol You think if he would have made any changes, he would have been allowed any where near  the White house?

        I would be shot, or die in my sleep before getting any where near any sort of power. big_smile

        1. BDazzler profile image83
          BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          What a revolting suggestion big_smile

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            The natives are revolting big_smile

            The Goons lol

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I already started my own strategy for the Great American Revolt, Hell why not the World Wide Revolt...against economic leaders, againts wars etc.  Not many want to hop on the bandwagon though.  I guess because doing so is just wrong.  I will tell you what is wrong.

              trickle down economics is wrong.
              having the poor pay for the fat cat is wrong.
              funding a war whether you believe in it or not is wrong.
              Fu** fighting is just wrong, killing is wrong, making people starve is wrong, making people work day in and day out for pennies is wrong, having the technology to abolish our dependency on fossile fuels and not doing it just to make a buck is wrong.

              I could go on and on about how wrong it is but not many would even consider it because they are to god damb comfortable and lazy to take a step foward and abolish the great american slave institution that we all love to bitch about but never do a friggin thing to fix. 

              http://hubpages.com/hub/Stop-Paying-for-It

              But I am just a low girl on the totem pole who's life isn't justified by anything but myself.  And you know my God would say Misha?  He would say, no it is not in my head, I can see it with my own eyes, wake up!

              1. BDazzler profile image83
                BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Have you seen the musical Pipin?

                Pippin Kills His Father and Becomes The New King to Set things right...  I quote the releaant passages:

                BEGGAR
                Thank you, sire. I am a very poor man. I can’t find work. You have much and
                I have nothing. Is that fair?

                PIPPIN
                No. That’s completely unfair. Treasurer?
                (TREASURER steps into the light)
                I order you to distribute money to the poor...
                (THEY ALL applaud as the BEGGAR thanks him)

                LEADING PLAYER
                (Indicating PIPPIN’s future billing)
                King Pippin, the Charitable...
                (Lights up on a PEASANT)

                PEASANT
                Sire, I’m a peasant. A simple working man. I own not one millimeter of land
                on which I’ve worked so hard all my life. Is that fair?

                PIPPIN
                No. That’s terrible. But I will do something about it. I hereby decree that
                from now on all peasants will own the land that they cultivate.
                (THEY ALL applaud)

                LEADING PLAYER
                King Pippin, the Just...
                (Lights up on a NOBLE)

                NOBLE
                DSHS Pippin 51
                Sire, now that you’ve given the land to the peasants, we loyal nobles have
                no source of income. Therefore, we can no longer pay taxes.

                PIPPIN
                Well then I hereby abolish taxes.
                (THEY ALL applaud)

                SOLDIER
                You realize sire without taxes you’ll have no money to support an army.

                PIPPIN
                That’s all right. I don’t need an army. That’s it. No more taxes, no more
                army.
                (THEY ALL applaud)

                LEADING PLAYER
                King Pippin, the Peaceful...
                (FIELD MARSHALL enters)

                FIELD MARSHALL
                Sire, it is my duty to inform you that the Infidel hun has attacked in the
                East.

                PLAYERS
                Oh!

                FIELD MARSHALL
                He has destroyed three villages...

                PLAYERS
                Oh!

                FIELD MARSHALL
                ...raped hundreds of women...

                PLAYERS
                (Clinging together in horror)
                Oh!

                FIELD MARSHALL
                Tortured and murdered thousands of your royal subjects.

                PLAYERS
                Oh!

                PIPPIN
                Can he do that?

                FIELD MARSHALL
                He has.
                (THEY ALL turn to PIPPIN)
                But he will withdraw on one condition.

                PIPPIN
                Well, that’s very reasonable. I’m certainly willing to make any small concession.
                What’s the condition?

                FIELD MARSHALL
                He demands your head on a pike staff.

                PIPPIN
                Oh. Well, in that case, I guess you’ll just have to go out and destroy the
                Infidel.

                FIELD MARSHALL
                But sire, I have no more men to wage a campaign...I have no money to buy
                supplies...I have no army.

                PIPPIN
                Excuse me a moment. Nobles?
                (Lights up on the NOBLE as PIPPIN crosses to him)
                You remember that decree I made a little while ago about land and taxes?

                NOBLE
                Yes, sire.

                PIPPIN
                That’s off.

                NOBLE
                You mean you want me to pay taxes again and raise an army?

                PIPPIN
                Yes. That’s right.

                NOBLE
                But sire, without land I have neither money nor power over the peasants.

                PIPPIN
                Oh, yes, that’s a very good point.
                (Stopping for a moment)
                I hereby suspend land reform.
                (Lights up on PEASANT)

                PEASANT
                Suspend land reform? Why the hell should I work when the poor get handouts
                from the royal treasury?

                PIPPIN
                You’re absolutely right. I hereby revoke charity to the poor.

                BEGGAR
                Up thine, sire.

                1. profile image0
                  sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  that is not funny

                  1. countrywomen profile image60
                    countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Bdazzler- That was a good story. We do need some army(as they say the cost of peace is to be prepared for war) but not so much expenditure for it that many are left homeless, hungry and living in hopeless conditions without any one taking care of them.

                  2. BDazzler profile image83
                    BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Unfortunately it is funny in a sad, cynical way ... idealists come to power and discover that their ideals suddenly aren't viable. Usually it starts out as small compromises.

                    Wish it were otherwise.  I truly, truly do.

                  3. sunforged profile image73
                    sunforgedposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    yes it is

              2. Misha profile image75
                Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                LOL Sandy, told ya we need Jenny or Jewels for this smile

                I did not mean to say that it all that happens only in your head. I was saying that your personal happiness depends ONLY on how you comprehend and interpret  what happens around you. On your perception of the events, not on the events themselves.

                Love ya smile

                1. profile image0
                  sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  I know what you mean Misha, at home I am happy, well except for Fridays, lol.  smile

      4. Ralph Deeds profile image71
        Ralph Deedsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Mark is a veru cynical guy. There are plenty of honest politicians. Two completely honest ones came from Illinois--Paul Douglas and Paul Simon. However, its true that Chicago politics is notorious for crooked deals. And there's apparently no shortage of crooks elsewhere. I guess it's true that many hold their noses and vote, out of political concerns, in ways contrary to their personal views.

  4. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Jeez, guys.  Are you all really THAT cynical?

    It is possible to live in the same state and not be corrupt.  And Obama's aide is to be commended for not wanting to have anything to do with the schemes of the governor and sticking with her old boss.

    And looking at it in a very, very cynical, Machiavellian way, even, what the heck would Obama or his people gain by associating with this governor clown?

    You are right, Misha--people make their own outlooks.... I must be following you around!  smile

    1. BDazzler profile image83
      BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Well, there are two ways of viewing the same data. We may be cynical or you may be naive'. In a way I hope you are right, because at the heart of every cynic is a wounded idealist who desparately hopes he's wrong.

      Oh, and to answer your question ... they are both members of the corupt orgnaization known as the Illinois Democratic party. But fear not! The Illinois Republican party is just as corupt!

  5. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Little by little, everyone.  Rome was not built in a day, and neither are the achievement of human rights (look at history).  And Obama is not yet even president.

    I think he will make some inroads, and there will be hat eaters.

    Sandra--  I think it is a bit of both--environment and what you make of it.  I was married to a foreigner, of the former Soviet Union.  Believe me, those immigrants--many of them, anyway--have lived with much less material things than most of us in the United States could ever dream.  That is one of the reasons they are able to appear so 'successful.'  They know how to do a lot more with so much less.

    I do know that attitude does affect your chances, and to have a good attitude (which, from most of your postings, I actually think you have) certainly does not hurt your chances for happiness and success--only increases it.  Another way of looking at it is to be proactive about the changes you want to see made--I fully believe it is all our responsibility.

  6. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Pippin overstates to make a point.  It is a musical/drama.....

    And I do believe there is a maturity level in civilization where there comes a point when we realize, "the government" is really just US, no less, no more.  As corrupt or as honest as we want to make it.  I believe Obama is the first step towards this in the U.S.

    But people have to really comprehend first.  The greatest advantage of those who are corrupt is that they have ways to keep others in the dark.  The best tool against this is always education.

    So what I'm saying is that it is possible to have all the institutions of government that we NEED, and still be ethical about things.  So that, no, I'm not naive--I think I function as a realist--a studied one... 

    And to realize this, you have to realize that you have a part in it all--it isn't the 'powerful,' against little old you, unless you make it that way and allow them.  You have a voice, you have your own power, and you must figure out how to be a part of the solution.

    1. BDazzler profile image83
      BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I wish I had not seen for myself how the sausage is made in our political arena. I truly do  The coruption ... well, it's worse in some places than others ... but it is pretty bad in Chicago.  I want you to be right. But I don't put my primary hope in any politician.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I don't put my hope in any politician either, but Lita is right about the power of education the the autority of the people if they "chose" to take it instead of allowing someone else to cannot possibly do everything him/herself to do it. 

        Ask most American's and they will tell you that there isn't anything they could do even if they tried to do something.  The sorriest part about the statement is that they have never even tried.

        Some government is good, too much authority in any one place or to any one person is bad.  sad

        1. BDazzler profile image83
          BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with all of that.  My mother was an elected official for a while, well about 12 years actaully. When the opportunity came to "fudge" a little to get re-elected she refused.  She refused to put up with corruption from within her own party ... some other stuff happened ...

          There is some evidence that some of the votes were fraudulent.  But as a family we decided not to pursue it for two reaons: 1) There wasn't enough evidence to be sure. 2) Calling for an investigation would make us look like "sore losers" and do more damage to our reputation.

          We know what happened. We know how it happened. But knowing and proving.  Well, that's two different things.

          Wish it were otherwise.

    2. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      One realist to another -

      Give it time. Eventually after using your "voice," you will discover that no one is listening and you are not shouting loud enough. And really, the greatest advantage of those who corrupt is to make people like you believe they can make a difference.

      It is what it is.....

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Pardon me, from on Idealist to a realist, the reality is that it has never been tried. 

        When in history has anyone ever tried to snuff out the big dog by taking away what they want most?  On a large scale.

        1. Misha profile image75
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          If I understood the question correctly, the last and the most spectacular example was Russia in 1917 smile

        2. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          The French revolution
          The Russian revolution
          The Luddites
          The Cornish tin miners
          The American revolution (war of independence)
          The Boer war
          Christianity
          The unions

          No, never tried before lol

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I was actually talking about a world unity to establish the abolishment of corrupted interest via withdrawling monies from any over invested interest of one or a few people. 

            I was actually talking about removing the money flow from the hands of the elite so that they cannot have the power to rule and by weapons and spend the money on costly wars that don't do anything but cause more war and destroy innocent lives in the meantime so they can snuggle up in their bedrooms that are larger then most homes. 

            I wasn't talking about a revolution in which the people just got their weapons and established an anit-authority revolt that leads to the shedding of more blood. 

            Sorry, I aint a warmonger either. smile

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Well, how are you going to take it from them then?

              I have been saying -

              Stop spending money on crap and go out side and play too you know big_smile

              1. profile image0
                sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                I do know this, it's part of the reason I listed you as one of my personal heroes! 

                The plan is to stop paying them.  Stop using the banks, put a dead stop to paying credit card debt no matter how little or much you owe, stop buying product from Union markets or as you like to put it, China crap. 

                Use cash, buy a little, downsize, use your legs etc...

                And I am not affraid to stop paying for it because I know that most the people with credit card debt had already paid their dues a long time ago.  I know that bids by these institutions were made using money they don't have and never had to begin with and that we are being double taxed in the sneakiest of ways.

                I know that Banks like to also squander your pennies from nickle and diming charging late fees on debts they tack on without your consent.  And I know that the technology for clean buning motor vehicals has been around since the first car was ever produced.

                All they want is money, so f**k um.  I also figure that if everyone decided to jump on the wagon that "credit" would become obsolete. 

                Of course this theory has some kinks but I know first thing is first, stopy buying it and stop paying for it.  smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  I have done this. I try and persuade everyone I know to do this.

                  I am one. Little. Does it really matter if I do it?

                  No.

                  But - if everyone does it....

                  Then what? We will be forced to spend money? No.

                  But - this will result in a war. A war for consumers.

                  Just wait until China loses all the consumers that buy their plastic crap. This is as good as declaring war on them. sad

                  And thank you for the compliment.

                  1. TheMoneyGuy profile image76
                    TheMoneyGuyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    He is right whenever people stop spending war is Enevitable.

                    They always teach history in School from War to War, but always seem to skip the part in between.  Well that is the part in Between.  When demand is low and Capital is in excess, popular war is inevitable.  You always get the rhetorical part disconnect from the economical part.  But, trust me Rhetoric is just words, and Wars start the money engine and kick the profits into overdrive.

                    No one likes educated Serfs.  :-)

                    TMG

                  2. profile image0
                    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, I don't know.  I am one too, so that makes two.  Double a penny everyday!  It's already a war. sad 

                    Either way, I will keep suggesting and doing what I suggest, maybe it will gain popularity in the meantime.  What would happen next would be dealt with next.

                2. TheMoneyGuy profile image76
                  TheMoneyGuyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Sandr,

                  Here is a quick read to keep the fires burning, for a while.

                  http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article … 295/1/347/

                  TMG

        3. TheMoneyGuy profile image76
          TheMoneyGuyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          You should read the book "Are We All Nazi's" by Hans Askenasy, he is a Jewish Phsychologists that wrote a book that demonstrates how, regular decent hard working folks contribute to the Horrors we now know to have been committed by that regime. 

          Corruption is a funny thing, I don't think a person in a place of power realizes they are corrupt when they are doing these things.  Especially in Government, I know when I was in the military I thought I was doing the best I could for My Country, My Family, and Myself.  I look back now and realize I might be considered a criminal by some.

          As for Clinton and anyone that gets caught, I know this, no one, ever gets caught the first time.  Getting caught is the culmination of a pattern that gets so out of control that those who protect you finally can do so no more, and it usually takes years before those loyal friends let you down.  Obama is still a very young man, and his following is fiercly loyal.

          I Believe there can be no such thing as an honest Politician, because honesty like all other morals is just a perspective.  For everything you see as Moral, someone see's as Immoral, and victors judge the defeated and then write the History book.

          So is the way of the World,

          TMG

  7. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    I've seen corruption here in AZ.  I know it exists.  Might I say, my partner and eye have looked it straight in the eye and confronted it, and there is life on the other side.

    I also know there are those who have lived to their potential--such as Obama.  If one looks at his life, he has not made any real wrong move...  I'm not saying he is any kind of Christ figure.  I'm saying, he's the kind of person I don't think is corruptible because he has all that an intelligent, fully rounded person knows are the important things in life--education, the love of his family, wealth on his own terms (his personal wealth came from the sales of his books), health, all the supposed 'power' he can have.

    I mean, what more is there in life, really, except wanting to give back to others?

    There ARE those who want to serve.  I have met a few in my life time.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I just hope he remains that way. Their is an old saying that says power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In recent times too many scandals like the NY Governor, John Edwards, Bill Clinton and so on have happened. One just needs one bad weak moment to ruin their entire life's work. But I pray nothing of that sort happens.

  8. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Sorry girls, it's all illusions. Honest politician is oxymoron. The trick is to accept them as they are, to not expect them to do honest things smile

    You can call it cynical of course, but it is as much cynical as expecting a body to fall down, not up smile

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I can accept the person but accept that I don't want them running the government, come on, cynisms is hardly the case, everyone can see what's going on, a lot want it to stop or change it, but wont do anything. 

      The illusion is in believing that it is right and will work itself out by itself and requires no action.  It's as cynical as asking someone to catch you incase you fall and being dumb enough to trust them even when they have never shown otherwise.

      1. Misha profile image75
        Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Sandy, you keep asking the question - "How can I change the World to fit me?". This question never leads to happiness. If you want to become happy, the question should be: "How can I change myself to fit the World?" smile

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry Mish, already done that long enough.  I shouldn't have to change myself anymore just to fit into the world it's what got me down to begin with!  Work that one out will ya Mish.  smile

          1. BDazzler profile image83
            BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            This is why I love you Sandy, it really is ... it's that "Impossible Dream" spirit from Man of LaMancha. 

            There is great value in the firey spirit.

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah, that's what God said!  He gave me the silliest name too, I laugh everytime I say it, God gave me a name, you wanna know what it is?  smile

              I love your right back BDaz!

              1. BDazzler profile image83
                BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Yes I do!

  9. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    They used to say you could tell how corrupt a state was by its roads. Illinois had terrible roads, while Wisconsin had smooth as sllk roads. As general rule would say the more west one comes in the US the more honest is politics, with exceptions like
    where the gansters go to play and retire.

  10. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Misha-
    That depends on what you see as corruption, as well, you know.  I really liked Clinton, ie, but saw he had some serious character flaws, namely, toward women because, I think of his own shortcoming. Still, they were failings of a personal nature.  Not everybody has these gross character flaws, thankfully

    And don't think for a minute Obama hasn't studied corruption in itself.  As a poli sci major, they read everyone...  There is a poli. philosopher (wish I remembered the name) who actually believes we depend on corruption of anyone in charge in order to govern--a very conservative outlook.  Also why we have term limits!  I remember reading Obama knew of him and knocked the socks of a political pundit on the senate floor.

    I know for a fact that since the universal health care coverage failed in the 90's, both Hillary and Obama took another path--INCLUDING the insurance companies...  Is this corruption, or is it the reality of the situation at this point in time and choosing to work with it?

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita,

      I don't know about universal health care coverage - I was not in the USA at that time. However, I did have a fascinating experience of watching honest people becoming politicians in the new Russia after the collapse of USSR. NOT A SINGLE ONE STAYED HONEST. Those who stayed became corrupt. Those who stayed honest did not stay...

      You can argue of course that this is Russian specific and Americans are different. I used to think along those lines, too. Almost 10 years in the USA changed my mind. I am sure now politicians are the same all over the world smile

      All are corrupt - meaning they leverage their positions for personal benefits...

  11. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Mark-
    I don't think this is all about me, lol!  And b), the world also depends on youth and idealism, as much as it does anything else.

    Trust me, we play with the big boys here in AZ--all I'm gonna say.  I also do all my own research--never really did trust any authority figure. I'm pretty beyond many youthful isms...

    Though since you mentioned it, I've already done way more than I ever thought I would already.  I wouldn't have done anything if I lived life in fear.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I never said anything about fear. I am not afraid. I am not anywhere near influential enough to be afraid yet. I only get about 250,000 page views a month on what I write. smile

      But, please do share what you have done.....

  12. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Isn't that funny that a bunch of old men take one position, and a bunch of young women - the opposite one? big_smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      lol

      Give it time..

      I thought like that once. If only I could have known then what I know now. big_smile

      The age old refrain.

    2. TheMoneyGuy profile image76
      TheMoneyGuyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Shocking isn't it.

      TMG

  13. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Misha-
    You are right about Russians & Americans.  My soviet guy told me how his family regularly used bribes to obtain things like shoes--of course, as good people, they knew this was not normal ethical behavior--but a fact of life living as they did.

    There are corrupt people throughout every culture, although I do believe there are generations raised in such a manner that they are truly evil--such as a generation of young men involved with the Taliban.  From them perhaps there is little hope...  I don't know about the Russians right now.  Bad leadership right now, I'd say--and it is always one step forward, two steps back, anyway...

    Mark-
    It is NOT all about me, LOL!  I'm sure nobody is that interested in my personal triumphs. See my lil bio. I was mainly trying to cheer Sandra up back to her positive self (at least from what I've seen).

    TMG-
    Yah, I want to read more of this kinda negative (and postmodern) philosophies that sometimes end up the same place I do.  It's interesting--even though it is usually against the grain of my outlook.

  14. artfuldodger profile image60
    artfuldodgerposted 8 years ago

    ah illinois politics. i dont suppose its any more corrupt than elsewhere. i find it interesting that the fbi decided to nail blagojevich the day after he refused to settle any more business with bank of america till they did something about foreclosures. its amazing how fast people find dirt on you when you decide to mess with banks. in all seriousness obama may not be as dirty as the rest, but he plays poker with them. he's a made man. dont expect the guy to act otherwise, inspiring rhetoric aside. rahm emmanuel's trouble. the guy's a known sociapath. and hilary. ehh.... it's not even worth discussing. it seems i was right three months ago when i said voting matters not a wit

  15. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    " And I know that the technology for clean buning motor vehicals has been around since the first car was ever produced." Not quite exactly but close.

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/490.html

  16. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    BTW, I'm a gen X-er approaching middle age.  Not that young, smile lol... This photo (an id photo) is me at 36!

  17. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Yaaaay, Ralph!  smile

  18. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago
  19. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Somebody wanna explain Howard Zinn, then?  Or maybe especially Noam Chompsky?

    They've written more than any of us...

    I do see this as a generational divide--but not necessarily one of age!  Anyway, I think I'm something of a democratic libertarian, if I really have to define it.

  20. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I don't know no Zin or Chompsky, they did not teach that stuff back in USSR big_smile

    Actually I know this quote for quite some time, and never took it literally. For me it sounds something like:

    Yes, this World is unfair, and it is perfectly OK to see this unfairness and try to change the World to the better when you are still young. When you get older however, you should start to understand and accept that this is the way this World is, and trying to change it is about as efficient as trying to fill the upside down bucket with water from beneath, no matter how hard you try... You get all wet and mess everything around, and the bucket is still empty...

  21. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 8 years ago

    Do you mean Noam Chomsky? Noam Chompsky sounds like a muppet smile

  22. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Yah, I do mean Chomsky....  Dunno why I always think, "chomp," lol.

    Yeah, Misha, in some ways I do agree with you.  I saw enough when I was in college with all the little socialist campus recruits--high on enthusiasm and low on thought or ways to make things happen.  I agree that as the old dualism stands, better to grow up...

    I think people coming out of a kinda extreme environment have a tendency to maybe go from one end of the spectrum to another.

    Whats your opinion of the Russian/Georgian tangle, outa curiousity?

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- When I was in late teens I read Ayn Rand's Atlas shrugged and fountainhead which was very influential to believe in capitalism more than anything else(responding to Misha about socialism at 20). I guess it also depends on what books you read at what age. Now I don't feel so moved by any books (although lately reading self help books only).

  23. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    CW-
    Yeah, I think you are right...  Also just how much you are into ideas or politics or what have you.  For some (many) it is kinda like a tradition--their parents were such and such, so they are, too.

    The fact Rand is 'into hero worship,' for women always really turned me off from her.  Also, she had kind of a weird life, if you check into her biography.  Though I agree at all with her conclusions--I believe we do rely on the strength or contribution of individuals to promote great change--just in corporations (?)  Uh, very rarely.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- What is wrong about "hero worship" it is just another way of admiring some one. Even in the movie spiderman 2 ( "everyone needs a hero and kids need someone to admire"). Just as the way people admire Obama now. The thing I liked about Ayn at that time is not to conform to surroundings but be individualistic (which is so american in a way). Even Misha (who comes from russia said we have to change to the environment not the other way around). Sandra said we are in this present situation because we have allowed ourselves to constantly change to the environment.

      1. countrywomen profile image60
        countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this
        1. Misha profile image75
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          CW, I intentionally never say "we have" or "you must" or anything else along these lines smile

          I believe everybody are free to think and act as they deem appropriate, for their own reasons. All what I was saying is that based on my knowledge of human psychology and life experience to date, the only possible way to happiness is to accept the environment as it is. You can't get happy if you don't do this smile

          1. profile image0
            sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Something happens when people get old, they give in and give up and discourage people like me from trying to 'change the world'.  I do know that what is good for some is not good for everyone, but listen up old man, lol, sorry- love you, but this is more my world now than it is yours because you had your time, you had your chance and you will be leaving it to us, and when I am old I will be leaving it to our kids, and your kids. 

            So, like Lita said, she is more like a democratic liberaltarian.  It's seems that everyone is but the ones the persist win.

            Unfortunately, from Jenny's quote, what you resist persist only works on a spiritual level.  In reality, I have to resist what persist because what persist today is only going to make things worse. 

            I could fill an upside down bucket with water.  Bet me a billion dollars I can't. smile

            1. countrywomen profile image60
              countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Misha- When I use the word "we have" I didn't mean all of us but it is my style of writing in which I tend to write. Maybe I need to improve my english so that I say what I mean and others don't misinterpret my words.

              Sandra- When I was a teenager I thought I will do MS and do some earth shattering research or something like that but now I am just working as a normal employee and will most probably just get married have babies and stay at home. Our priorities and visions change constantly as we keep growing in life.

              1. Misha profile image75
                Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                I did not misinterpret your words  - you did by re-phrasing me tongue

                Really no need in defense, I just wanted to make sure that my message got through intact smile

                Oh, and don't get me started on MY English big_smile

            2. Misha profile image75
              Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              LOL Us old farts are really just trying to change the world in our own way, probably a bit more efficient than yours - passing bits of our experience to you youngsters, so you could learn at least something from our mistakes, not your own ones big_smile

              I am not sure what democratic libertarian means, and I am not a big fan of labels, so I just left it alone smile

              I think you will benefit if you meditate on Jenny's quote as often as you can - it is not about spiritual level, it is about how this world works smile

              And come on, I am sure you understood what I was trying to say by the bucket metaphor big_smile

  24. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    I mean, I don't agree at all with her conclusions...

  25. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 8 years ago

    Speaking of women... and the idea of "selling" senate seats. Does anyone else see the probability that Obama maneuvered Hillary Clinton into Secretary of State role with understanding by both her and Caroline Kennedy that Caroline would take her place as junior NY senator? Tell me you don't think similar "succession planning" was at work in Illinois, his home state.
    I have no comments on Ayn Rand except she does seem to come up often on hub threads!

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      MightyMOM- "succession planning" isn't a bad thing but expecting some sort of monetary gains from it is the root cause of present scandal. I surely hope Obama had nothing to do with the "monetary gains" part of Illinois governor who has been caught on tape by FBI.

  26. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    I last heard Carolyn Kennedy was going to be education secretary.  ??

    Well, I'm not sure I'm so turned off of networking for cabinet members or other offices.  I mean, that IS politics.  That's sure as heck the way I got my last job--I guess I see no issue with that.

    But that and someone accepting personal perks--such as $100,000 wardrobes and 'buying' senate seats because you are a stupid narcissistic meat head are two different things.

    Yeah, Rand is like, all over Pam Grundy's hubs!  She's kinda out of fashion, really--never heard so much about her until I got on here.

    1. profile image0
      pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      lol! Lita, Rand is all over the COMMENTS on my hubs. I'm not sure why. I really, really, really don't like Ayn Rand's ideas or her work. I think her writing is bad and her philosophy (if you can call it that) is even worse than her writing. When people tell me to read Ayn Rand because it will just change my whole life I cringe. It's like when people tell me I can get rich by selling Amway or Mary Kay. It's on that same level and exactly that uncomfortable, especially if I like the person. It's like they just told me they wear edible underwear or something else I don't really want to know about them--TMI TMI TMI!!!!! LOL!

      Oh, and from an OLD woman (to counterbalance all the young noncyncial women)--I say it's possible to have corrupt politicians and honest politicians. 'Honest politician' is not an oxymoron, it's just a rarity. Politics is a game you know. The line between playing politics and going criminal can get blurred but we know when someone has crossed it.

      I still like Obama. I'm building a little shrine in my living room.  big_smile

  27. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    LOL CW, I don't know no Ayn Rand either big_smile

    Actually, if you want the book that influenced my worldview the most, it would be The Beads Game by Herman Hesse. (hope I did not mess the spelling smile)

    Lita, talking about Georgia, I comprehend this as yet another spectacular failure of American foreign policy. If USA still had some sympathies in Russia, now they are mostly gone.

    Russia occupied the Caucuses area by force a few hundred years ago, the only country that joined voluntarily was Georgia. Russia and Georgia never had any conflicts, Russian and Georgian cultures are united in so many ways one can't really tell where is one and where is another sometimes. Enough to say that Stalin was georgian.

    And now USA installed this idiot Saakashvili, and made him thinking American troops would support him if he starts the war with Russia...

    1. sunforged profile image73
      sunforgedposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Magister Ludi or The Glass Bead Game - Hermann Hesse - one of my all time favorite reads by my favorite writer

  28. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Misha-
    Didn't know that part about the voluntary.  Plot thickens. I agree tho, there is a failure on the part of US foreign policy.  That's mainly McCain and his organization--and he does have one especially interested in Georgia.  The Georgians just love, love, love him.  A joke.  And I'm thinking Obama doesn't really know where to start on this one.

    I've gotta say I don't completely understand the vehemence behind the Georgian nationalism.  They really have it, too--and it is down to the little ethnic groups among the Georgians--Mingrellians and what have you.

    Wow, CW-
    I honestly don't think anyone else (at least me) has parsed everyone's philosophies as finely as you have and in regards to Rand.

    I mean--I understand she believes in hero worship as a response to the relationship of a woman to a man, and I'm like, yeck!  Not what I know reality to be. To be honest, I guess, partially due to my education, I never took her as a serious writer, so don't take her philosophy seriously, either.

    Yeah, I do see is seen as Obama as a hero to some.  To me, he's just the most reasonable, intelligent guy to come on thepolitical radar in, basically, my lifetime.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- As I already mentioned it was one of those books I read when I was 17/18 which was a strong influence for me (from India) about something to be free to be able to do something instead of being typecast to do the same things or mould into societal perceptions (like in India we have to be moulded to fit into our environment). Maybe I look up to my dad as my hero and feel Men have the most natural ability to lead (even most of the woman look up to  men and men usually only look up to another man to be a leader). Hence I never felt Ayn Rand to be degrading to woman. Like I told you it was 8 years ago and now I have no such influential authors (and also not reading so much too).

    2. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I can't say I completely understand what's going on there either smile

  29. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Now I suppose I will have to read Hermann Hesse.  What is so cool about him?

    Sunforged, aren't you more Eva Hesse?  LOL.

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, he is very cool smile

      I discovered him in my late 30s, and I never seen such a deep insight into human psychology and the ways human society operates. All written in excellent language. Definitely something I would recommend to read smile

  30. Nickny79 profile image88
    Nickny79posted 8 years ago

    For the alphabetically challenged, the spelling is g-o-v-e-r-n-o-r; for the politically challnged, this is a DEMOCRAT governor for the politically challenged.  God help us with all the new federal appointees!

    1. BDazzler profile image83
      BDazzlerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      In some places it's govner and demacrats wink

  31. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    CW-
    Sigh.  When you are married, (oh, no, I sound old!) you will probably understand better what I'm saying about men, lol.  And for the record, seriously, among scholars she is not considered a 'serious' writer.  But I do completely understand.  Many books have influenced me...

    And Yeah!  Misha's only 48 (according to his bio)!  That mean's he's middle aged, not old, hehe.

    They are just trying, I think, to kinda poke fun, I think, Sandra.  But I think you had it to some extent in saying some don't give up.  Trick is to see the world in all its flaws and still have hope.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Well one of my cousins who got married at 20 has two kids now and she is of the same age as me (25) also talks as if she is already a grandma...LOL

      Btw I disagree with you on Misha being old or middle aged. He is still very young at heart and has a roaring modeling career to boost. In case you aren't aware of it yet: http://hubpages.com/hub/Mishas-Coach-Mo … n-HubPages

      1. Milla Mahno profile image62
        Milla Mahnoposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        wow snap! Thanks for the promotion countrywomen!  Misha wont say it but, he is totally into himself.  smile  He knows he is "hawt".

        1. countrywomen profile image60
          countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Milla- We all know he is "hawt" and also has lots of fans due to this. Btw he isn't giving you any credit and hence I thought I should include you too. big_smile
          Check this out: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/9904?page=2

          1. Milla Mahno profile image62
            Milla Mahnoposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I saw that, it doesn't bother me.  My goal was for Misha and his rising career in the modeling industry.  I really appreciate your love though!  It does feel good to be remembered every once in a while. smile

            1. countrywomen profile image60
              countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              We all need a few positives to look forward to in these times of negatives all around.Thanks for launching Misha's career. I guess Misha's services can be used by the BIG 3 cars makers to boost their sales.  big_smile

  32. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Misha--
    I will check him out.  I've heard him bantered about enough.  I should read him...  smile

  33. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    CW-Yah, I saw the real 'hawt' lipstick shot once before....OMG.....  Soho, no less, lol.

    Well, I imagine by the time your cousin is my age, she actually could be a Grandma, technically, at that rate, smile...  But I'd say--aim for respect--an equilibrium.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- You said it. No wonder he is real favorite (having 1000 fans) between men, women and even all those in between too..LOL

      Well I certainly hope not. Although her younger daughter is 1 year old now and the elder son is 3 years old . Btw what did you mean by "aim for respect--an equilibrium"

  34. TheMoneyGuy profile image76
    TheMoneyGuyposted 8 years ago

    Five hours ago we were beating the war drums of revolution, now all these young Women and Misha are forming a book club and talking about families.  Well I guess we have seen whose Ideals have won out.  Bless you all I am tired, drunk, and going to bed.

    TMG

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      TMG- Hope you are not disappointed with the family talk. I guess we women were not idle even if we were not "ideal".  big_smile

    2. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Not sure why, but everything usually ends up this way big_smile

  35. profile image59
    krishnapradhanposted 8 years ago

    To be honest, I have no right to sy nything on this subject.All the same I would like everybody to think  without getting involved why people get tempted to accept bribes at all. This is a world wide phinomina, so let the world think about it. so far we elderly cold not teach our youngsters anything .can wle tell them now to curb their expenditure, and stay within their limits, not to borrow for lavish style of living?Can we behave like the Indian sage who slept on the streets in a freezing temperaure,viz.swami vivekananda, or mahtma Gandhi who clad himself in a loincloth to meet the most reverred  her majesty the Queen?No, none can behave like those extraprdinary people.But at least convice them that individual pleasure is not the only adorable thing in life.sacrifice your luxuries for the sakeof your countrymen, adn the money saved wil be useful for building up the nation  once again.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Bribe and corruption have existed before and will always exist even later. Human being is perpetually trying to seek more than what is the need since their is no end to greed. We just have to have stronger checks and balances to remove such occurrences. It is very difficult to expect everyone to live the life of renunciation like those great people and also not practical across the board for everyone to follow too. Lets hope for the best and do our bit in whatever small way we can. As Gandhi said  "You must be the change you want to see in the world" Some of the small changes I can think of are: Like leaving lesser carbon foot print (walk, bike or take public transportation often), recycle whenever possible, be judicious in water & electric usage and so on.

  36. eovery profile image60
    eoveryposted 8 years ago

    This is an interesting situation.

    The governor cannot be prosecuted for selling Obama's senate seat - he did not actually do the crime.  Yes, he is on tape talking about it.  Did he actually do it?  No.  Therefore he cannot be prosecuted by this.  No crime was done!

    So with this, why was he shutdown, and prevented to do the crime.  What is actually going on?

    He was arrested from a 5 year investigation of him, and Antoin Reazac.  Therefore, since Obama was Reazac's laywer, what does this mean with Obama's relationship?  So why was the arrest done now, instead of 2-6 months ago, before the election?  Interesting.

    Very interesting circumstance.  The Democrats are all over the govermor on this, and he is actually innocent of the crime.  Funny, Rebublicans are the one's backing the Governor of this because they are following the laws. This is the first time I have seen the liberal media and the Democrat party go after a Democrat.  They do it to Republicans all the time, and now they have turn against one of their own.

    It is also interesting that several prominent people were in the running.  Were they bidding on the seat?  MR Jesse Jackson and son?

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Well you do have a point but people get arrested for attempting to have their partners killed.  What is that called, attempted murder.  They hire hitmen.  While no actual crime was committed there is enough evidence to support that his intentions were for monetary gain and "selling" the seat to the highest bidder instead of the most suited is unethical. 

      Not to mention that he threatened to withhold monies from a childrens hospital as well as their baseball field and other things.  And, and, and his potty mouth really did not help him in the slightest.  He is like an evil vilian right out of a movie.

  37. BDazzler profile image83
    BDazzlerposted 8 years ago

    A friend of mine from Illinois sent me this email:

  38. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Pam-
    Yeah, I should have said Rand is all over the comments on your hubs!  I didn't think how that might effect you (I seriously doubt it will--you're good!)

    And, lol, from a not-so-young woman, really--I agree there are both corrupt and non-corrupt politicians.  Absolutely.  It's bipartisan, for that matter--that's why I have no problem with stringing up Gov. Blogo meat head.

    1. profile image0
      pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, what a jerk! I was raised in South Bend, IN, which is about 90 miles east of Chicago--not far from Gary--and local politics in IN has always been corrupt as hell. It's all about kickbacks and shakedowns and so on and so forth. But not everybody is bad. Even in South Bend there were local people who were politically active because they actually cared about certain issues. They just didn't get to be mayor or governor.

      1. Misha profile image75
        Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        LOL This is exactly what old cynics were talking about here big_smile

  39. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Yeah, tho, Misha, I'd say Pam would agree that sometimes--maybe just sometimes--good ones do get to be President.

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I may be mistaken, but I had an impression that people don't become presidents without becoming mayors and governors first...

      1. countrywomen profile image60
        countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Just as a matter of technicality Obama was a senator (Not mayor/governor)  big_smile

      2. profile image0
        pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Misha, Obama has not been a mayor or a governor or even tried to be one. He was involved in community organizing on the south side of Chicago, helping poor people work out their problems. He voluntarily took a job that paid only about 20K even though he graduated at the top of his Harvard Law class, because he felt a responsibility to give back to his South Side community. His community organizing led to a position in the IL state legislature when somebody got thrown out or died or something--but he didn't stay long, he ran for U.S. Senate and won.

        So he pretty much did a run-around IL politics--touched it briefly then went to the U.S. Senate.

        Trust me, if there was an ounce of dirt on Obama it would be all people ever talked about--but all they can come with is made up stuff about him not having a birth certificate and being a Muslim, because there just isn't anything dirty on him. He's really unbelievably square.

        Abraham Lincoln came from IL you know. Most historians agree he was pretty clean too.

    2. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- At least some of us have some hope left. I also believe Obama would be an exception to the corrupt politics. Now I realized after reading yours and Pam's opinions about Rand that different people growing up at different times in their life at different places can have different opinions about the same person. I read it when I got over reading mills & boon and started on serious books like Ayn Rand's with stars in my eyes and dreams about USA.

  40. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Pam!
    Take on Misha for us, would you?

    CW-
    Well, yeah, it struck me that both you and Aya Katz had read Rand & for all intents and purposes, come from other cultures and there may be reasons for those stars.  And I admit, I was very influenced by professors who totally disdained Rand, tho also by inclination, I'm not exactly totally pro-capitalism, anyway.  Then I was thinking--wow--  Did I ever give her a chance as a writer?  But I believe there are shreds of truth among even things that are wrong--so I don't completely discount her.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- Come on Misha is a cutie(Friendly reminder in case the memory of the "hawt lipstick" has evaporated). big_smile
      I guess I read it when everything about USA was right and its life as we saw it in movies & TV serials influenced our perceptions. I have never read her works beyond those two books hence not an authority by any stretch of imagination. I guess she is like one of those people either you adore her or disdain her. I guess now I am neutral and all the emotions I am talking about have long died out during my first few months in US.

  41. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Yeah!  There you go!  What she said!

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Not everything that is inspiring can become a reality. But inspiration should never the less never be discounted. Hence I do support her for inspiring people like me (from other cultures) but I also do know that she talks about things which are not in sync with actual reality although I would still like to believe in some of those ideals. Maybe I was too idealistic when I was 17/18 (you know the kind of mentality a young woman or maybe still a girl has during that age).

  42. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    *Last comment was in regards to Pam's statement--didn't know CW would post in the interim...

    CW-
    Yah, Misha can be cute, lol, and still not get the nuances of a point!
    And yes, I realize that a person's philosophy changes as they go--no truly right or wrong answers.  You always impress me with your independence and sensitivity.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lita- Even if Misha doesn't get a POINT but if you APPOINT him as a model then he will not DISAPPOINT lol

      Thanks for that compliment big_smile

  43. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    CW-
    See, now you are starting to know what I'm talking about with men!  Some are just pretty.  LOL...  Seriously, just a joke... 

    I'm only know recovering from reading that stuff over in the religion forum....I was seriously laughing.  So naughty!

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      We all do need a laugh out of our regular normal existence and I hope Misha is sportive enough when we are taking far too many liberties at his expense big_smile

  44. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Oh, he's smart, too.  He reads like, serious, German literature and stuff!  And knows a lot about foreign policy!  In my opinion, that's A-OK. 

    Anyway, any guy who posts pictures of himself in lipstick absolutely has a sense of humor. (Always a good thing.)

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I know he is very smart but that "hawt lipstick" has gone on for a while and felt maybe it was a bit too much. I don't know I read a little bit of headlines in google news to know what's going on but some how economy, politics, sports aren't something I really enjoy reading. As they say love me or hate me but spare me the indifference (I guess some people may thrive on being popular) big_smile

  45. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Misha has a nice photo now!  I actually sent him fan mail telling him so....

    And...we all have our things!  I never liked math, much--you know--  Though I can appreciate those still, who excel at it.

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I was ok in studies in almost all the subjects. Not that I don't like economy, politics or sports but can't spend enough time on that unlike my brother who simply loves reading these things(even when exams are due in a week he would be reading the sports section in Newspaper). But I do admire people who know so much about so many things.

  46. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Awwww girls, you made me seriously blush smile

    Thank you ! smile

    Pam,

    I am gladly believing you - but does it matter? I've seen quite a few honest people who became politicians, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. Neither of them became an honest politician - invariably they either stayed honest, or stayed politicians... That's the name of the game, and professional requirement smile

  47. SweetiePie profile image85
    SweetiePieposted 8 years ago

    There are dishonest people in every profession.  Politicians are not all evil and bad because simply put we do need a form of government to maintain a semblance of law and order.  Those who have the answers truly should run for local offices and contribute if they think they can do better because getting into politics is not all bad.  Lawyers, doctors, teachers, writers, and pretty much people from every single profession in the book can be corrupt.  Do not get me started on business men who have affairs with young college girls and promote them to positions for which they are not qualified, I knew several people who always got good recommendations by having affairs with their bosses.  I actually am impressed with the local city council members in our area that went up againt a big contracting firm and blocked the building of more track homes in a lovely wildlife preserve area, and I was one of the people who voted to make sure the track homes would not come into this area.  There are enough unoccupied homes in the area without building more new ones.

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Some professions have higher percentage of dishonest people, some less, for some it is a requirement. I do not remember anybody on that thread calling politicians bad or evil. Nobody questioned the need in government either. I don't think we can command people to run for local offices - they will if they decide so. Some professions have higher percentage of dishonest people, some less, for some it is a requirement. Don't see any problem with a businessmen promoting his lover, as long as shareholders don't mind - and don't see why you or I should be bothered by that. Are you sure other developers did not pay you city council to keep competitors away?

      1. SweetiePie profile image85
        SweetiePieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        First off I do not command anyone, you are so silly smile.  However, your post to me is slightly commanding and speaking down to me. My aunt worked in the law field and I think there are more dishonest lawyers than politicians any day.  Ironically many lawyers become politicians. By the way, our city is dedicated to preserving the national preserve because the local university backed it, not because they were paid off by local developers.  I am an intelligent lady that does my research you know smile.  Also, it is wrong if a businessman promotes his lover with few qualifications over people who were more qualified for a job, that almost a form of nepotism.  The girl even bragged about it.  It was only any example of corruption in all fields.  However, I know my points are valid and sound, and I will always feel I can share them.

        1. Misha profile image75
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Sure I am silly! big_smile
          Are you not? wink

          1. SweetiePie profile image85
            SweetiePieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Actually I like to be silly smile..

            1. JYOTI KOTHARI profile image73
              JYOTI KOTHARIposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Why all these comments in forum?

              1. Misha profile image75
                Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Because big_smile

  48. JYOTI KOTHARI profile image73
    JYOTI KOTHARIposted 8 years ago

    There are huge hue and cry about corrupted politicians in the emerging economies / developing nations.
      However, there are corrupt politicians everywhere including US. Is he as corrupted as Dick Chenney who put US in war with Iraq for his own selfish interest (people say so).

      Jyoti Kothari

  49. JYOTI KOTHARI profile image73
    JYOTI KOTHARIposted 8 years ago

    Why we are off topic?

         Jyoti kothari

 
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