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Obamacare and my vote

  1. habee profile image90
    habeeposted 4 years ago

    I like most of Obamacare, although I still have reservations about the individual mandate. On one hand, I don't like the idea of people being forced to buy a product, but on the other hand, I don't like having to help pay for ER visits for those who don't purchase insurance. I like that more people will be covered, and I like the fact that insurance carriers can't turn you down for pre-existing conditions.

    There's something else that concerns me about the law. I have several close family members and friends in the HC field, and they all say the law will make the price of HC go up. One, BTW, is a PA who's a liberal Dem. I don't mind paying a little more in order for more people to be covered, but I can't afford to pay A LOT more.

    I really don't want the law to be repealed, although I do think it should be "tweaked," with input from both parties. Romney says he will repeal the law, and that's somewhat pulling me away from him. I haven't checked on what he would replace it with. I still think Romney will be better for the economy, but now I'm somewhat torn. I'm still leaning Mitt, but this has definitely given me something to think about.

    Just so you know, I have good health insurance from my teacher retirement and Medicare, but I worry about those who don't have insurance.

    1. JSChams profile image60
      JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So why do you suppose that we could not have simply had a law that covered those who really needed it which was only about 30 million, not 300 million?
      Would that not have been a happier solution?

      1. habee profile image90
        habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, I've wondered about that, too. I think that would have gotten more bipartisan support - from Congress and from the general public.

        1. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I personally believe folks like you and I should have had the right to directly vote on whether we had a law like this or not. Don't you?

          1. habee profile image90
            habeeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, I think citizens should be able to directly vote on everything!

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Not practical.

              1. JSChams profile image60
                JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                No it's not practical for the people to actually have a voice is it?

              2. Cagsil profile image73
                Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Not practical because no one has devised a system which could possibly work to do it.

                1. Ann1Az2 profile image61
                  Ann1Az2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  The politicians we vote for are supposed to vote the way WE want them to - that's the way it is supposed to work. We put the ones in office who are closest to the way we want to vote on issues. In a corrupted government, politicians vote the way they want to or the way they are forced to - that's how the healthcare bill was shoved down our throats.

                  1. JSChams profile image60
                    JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    This is why there is a movement afoot to enact a national referendum on ACA.
                    It's time for the people to actually be heard and represented.

                    This is what Democracy looks like! Ha!

            2. Ron Montgomery profile image59
              Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Mob rule is a very bad idea...

              1. JSChams profile image60
                JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                It's what some call Democracy.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  It is what "some" call democracy but it's not American democracy, we don't make all our decisions by public vote rather we elect representatives to do so on our behalf.

                  1. JSChams profile image60
                    JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes and they have gotten to suck at that really badly. That's why there will be a petition for a national referendum on ACA.

                2. Ron Montgomery profile image59
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Which is why the founders were smart enough to avoid forming this type of democracy..

            3. Jane Bovary profile image90
              Jane Bovaryposted 4 years ago in reply to this
      2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The law will have little or no effect on the people who currently have health care insurance, except that it will help retard the rate of increase in health care costs.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Doubling the amount of health care services being used by people that can pay only a pittance for them isn't going to retard the rate of increase in health care costs.

          Unless you are figuring that shifting the burden of cost to the tax structure somehow reduces the cost we pay?

          1. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
            crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well there is no reason for $16 aspirins but it happens.

            A friend of mine with good health insurance was recently charged $65 for a mucus recovery device. When we got to the bottom of it she had been charged $65 for a box of Kleenex. About a dollar box of Kleenex.

            There is so much fraud on the part of health care providers as far as billing goes.

            Pharmaceutical companies rip the American people off for hundreds of millions of dollars a year for prescription drugs. Many pills sold at up to $10,000 a month for a thirty day supply cost a hundred dollars at most to make. And most times a lot less.

            The Health Care System in America is a rip off of the American people.

            I have been to many European Countries where they have it together as far as health care goes and guess what. Everyone there has health care. Health care is one place severe controls on prices need to be in place. And if doctors don't want to practice medicine here let them go to another country and rip those people off.

    2. SimeyC profile image89
      SimeyCposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I hear you! What amazes me is that there are some brilliant ideas on both sides of the government - God forbid they actually work together and formulate something we all can agree on that helps the growing healthcare problem.

      You mentioned that this bill will see the cost of HC rise - it is already rising by a huge amount already so I would say no change there!

    3. Repairguy47 profile image60
      Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The individual mandate was deemed to be unconstitutional, instead the mandate is now a tax, a tax on the people Obama said he wouldn't tax. This should be more troubling to you if you are a conservative moderate or not. When the government becomes so big that it can give you anything you need it has also become so big that it can take everything you have. Your confusion on who to vote for is very strange for someone who claims to be a moderate conservative.

    4. Cagsil profile image73
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      As you should. Regardless of whether or not it's deemed a tax.
      Do you realize you were paying for ER visits of other people before Obamacare? Right?
      Yes, the "pre-existing" condition requirement is something that needed to be put in place anyways. However, are you aware that 15% of the population is homeless? Are these people covered as well? And how exactly is their ER visits going to be paid? As to how they were paid before Obamacare?
      I have no problem with aiding others, I have dedicated my life to doing just that. And I have said this time and again, whenever the government interferes in individual aspects of citizens' life, then the entire pricing structure gets raised due to the effectiveness and efficient method government does with their policies, regulations and processes.
      He isn't for equality or equal rights. That's enough for me.
      Worry about those who don't have insurance? You place your worry in the wrong place. You should be worried about why Obamacare has to exist in the first place.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        you think 15% of the population is homeless?

        1. Cagsil profile image73
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes. Do you have a problem with that? If so, then it's your problem. Not mine.

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah the problem is you are wrong, you know facts and all that? According to the homeless annual report to congress it's less than 1%. For the second time today, checking your facts is a good habit.

      2. Billy Hicks profile image88
        Billy Hicksposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A 15% homeless rate would be roughly 47 million homeless... I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but I'd re-check your sources.

        1. Cagsil profile image73
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes Billy. I am aware of the numbers.

    5. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's why I love you Habee!
      Nodody can make you a Tin Soldier. Thank you for your honest evaluation of the health Care Act.

    6. KFlippin profile image59
      KFlippinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Habee it started going up two years ago, the past two years our renewal is at least 20% more each time, and I'm terrified because I didn't read all the print in the big envelope two years ago that I needed to sign in a timely manner in order to be 'grandfathered in' with our current costly BCBS insurance, so NOW we are theoretically subject to the new health care, it is quite confusing and scary.  We've dropped our coverage to almost catastrophic as rates went up so high.  A person would need a minimum wage job just to cover our rates, therefore we might as well smoke ourselves to death now, or get a gun, or drop the insurance all together. It isn't a good thing.  Those who don't have insurance well deserve to be worried about, but those who do/or did have insurance deserve equal concern, and it is those non-gov't regular folks paying for this bill who are NOW already paying out the nose for insurance that are hurt the worst in this.  We'll soon join the uninsured as we don't have a tidy retirement plan and can't pay for it anymore - and that was not the case three years ago and more, and we are both in good health.  So something stinks and stinks really bad in all this.

      1. Cagsil profile image73
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I been saying since Romney decided to do it here in Mass. It's a dirty low ball way of accumulating more tax revenue for something which will not reduce health insurance to an affordable level for those who are already having trouble affording health insurance coverage.

        My mother is semi-retired, she collects a Social Security check each month and because she is, she isn't allowed to earn more than $14,120 per year, otherwise she is required to payback $1 for every $2 she goes over it.

        When she semi-retired, she dropped her hours because her current rate of pay and working 30+ hours would pose problems. She could keep her insurance at work by working a minimum of 20 hours, but even that's too many hours. Aside from that, her work increased the minimum works required to work in order to gain the ability to participate in the insurance programs offered to employees. So, she was dropped off and had to go to the RomneyCare Health Connector Network to get insurance because she was unable to get affordable coverage elsewhere.

        Her insurance through the Health Connector Network was $40 per month more than her insurance was through work. I considered that not good. You can consider it however you like.

        Yes, I agree. Something stinks.

        1. KFlippin profile image59
          KFlippinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm very very glad we are in agreement that something stinks in all this, I really am.........

    7. Dr Billy Kidd profile image92
      Dr Billy Kiddposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Without Obamacare your teacher retirement health insurance plan can legally dump you for having a pre-existing condition--at least in many states. They have not because the unions still have power to fight back for retiree. With the nationwide Republican attack on government union workers--teachers, firefighters, police, transportation workes--you'll see that medical protection end.

      Why would you be upset about 1% of the populationm paying a $95 tax in April 2025? That would be the folks who can afford healthcare insurance, but use the emergency rooms at your expense. I guess you have low preiums. But the average policy in the U.S. charges $1400 extra per year to cover ER visits.

      By the way, Romney endorses the Ryan budget and the downsizing of Medicare, Social Security, and the elimination of Medicaid. He wants it all privatized or put into block grants.

  2. Angela Blair profile image87
    Angela Blairposted 4 years ago

    The Bill could -- but most likely will not -- help the ER problem, especially with illegals. The Bill reads they can join in the mandate by choice but are not required to do so and we're left with what we've got now -- they'll still be going to the ER, using up what indigent funds are available and U.S. citizens will still be paying for it so that problem is far from fixed. Both Georgia and Arizona have passed laws making it more difficult for illegals to remain in this country without papers but the federal government has struck that down and says those laws are unforceable...so, it's difficult to see how Obamacare will change the illegal situation one way or another and we'll not only be paying for Obamacare but skyrocketing ER costs, too.

  3. 0
    screamingposted 4 years ago

    The bill, with the mandate is a carbon copy of Romneys in Mass. He said more then once in order for the plan to work the mandate had to stay. That's right, Romney said it. NO American should be without health insurance. This at least is a beginning, to showing the world we actually care about our citizens! That every American, not some! That all have the same medical resources available to them.

  4. Dave Mathews profile image61
    Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago

    For the average American, who at present has little to no health care protection I feel that Obama's Health care plan is a good thing, as affordable mandatory health care so that anyone can get treated if needed.

    In my opinion Health Care Insurance is a smarter move than "Life Insurance" which is only collectable once you die.

  5. peeples profile image89
    peeplesposted 4 years ago

    Ok this is the third time I have heard this today and I am starting to feel a bit crazy. What in the world am I missing here?!? How do tax payers pay the hospital ER visits that those with no insurance. Hospitals are not government run. If someone doesn't pay the bill the hospital loses that money. The government in NO way pays bills for those without the ability to pay unless that person is part of medicaid or medicare. According to part of obama care states will have a right to Opt in for expanded medicaid, increasing the amount of people who will be covered by the government, which will increase tax payers paying for ER visits. So either I have completly missed something or this whole talk everywhere about tax payers paying for the uninsured ER visits is being fed to the people by the media. What am I missing?

    1. AEvans profile image72
      AEvansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      My thoughts are as a (tax payer) is through our taxes. For those of us who do not receive money back each year we wouldn't notice any change. If people are used to receiving large tax returns, than they may see a reduction.

      Many hospitals that I have worked for are protected by the non-profit blanket and receive donations and write-offs on their tax returns. I don't believe hospitals would take a huge loss in profits when someone visits an ER; I believe they will remain stable with the donations they receive.

      The positive side of ObamaCare is Insurance companies cannot deny anyone health care, even with Pre-existing conditions. People who can't afford healthcare will receive a tax credit and the middle class will finally be able to buy affordable healthcare.

      Our States will not be able to deny anyone health coverage due to Pre-existing conditions like our state did to several people and they died. She stated she had to make cuts in our State budget; however we are paying for juror and employee shuttles, new furniture and $60,000 vehicles that state employees drive around. Mmmmm.... our governor is a mess!

  6. fpherj48 profile image81
    fpherj48posted 4 years ago

    habee...you can save your time and energy.  There's nothing to check on in terms of the Republicans and an "alternate plan" to Obamacare.  This will be a wonderful and fascinating campaign.....we have choices to make....Dem or Rep....Obamacare or NOTHING, economy boost....drop or stalemate....who knows...who can we trust?....war on terror...?  Better treatment of our Veterans and families?   Mormon or Christian?  black or white, new or old.....Potus or wealthy businessman?  for or against Gay marriage?  I won't go on.  I have no doubt you can keep the list going..Thanks for this question and for sharing your own opinion.  Peace.

    1. JSChams profile image60
      JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Changing Presidents will not affect any of those and least of all Obamacare. We need a national referendum.

  7. Connie Smith profile image91
    Connie Smithposted 4 years ago

    I don't understand how people can be so against all Americans having access to healthcare.  I personally have healthcare, so this is not about me.  However, from where I sit, the poor have healthcare and the rich have healthcare. The only ones who do not are the working middle class who can't afford the premiums -- and those with "pre-existing" conditions who can't get insured. Having a little granddaughter with a brain tumor makes me see this issue from the side of Anybody USA who, whether they have good insurance or not, may ultimately have a grown son or daughter or grandchild who cannot get coverage for some reason.  We are fortunate now to have insurance, but if my granddaughter lives, at some point she will be ineligible for her current insurance and will have to look elsewhere.  If the nay-sayers get their way, she will be denied due to a pre-existing condition.  She then would have to be declared indigent in order to get healthcare and you all would be paying for it anyway.  And to whoever said that the ERs would be overrun needs to think again....many more people would have access to a doctor and not have to use ERs for primary physician services.

    1. 0
      screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Connie Smith, hope your granddaughter is doing well. Unfortunately unless the ones against a healthcare for all, are inpacted, they just don't get it. Most don't even know what a lifetime benefit is. But the Republican illusionists have them convinced President Obama's healthcare plan is a bad thing.The only taxes being raised and those above $250,000.00 not the middle class! How anyone could put "Money" over someone's life, is beyond me!

      1. Cagsil profile image73
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A pretty naive statement.

        1. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's all supposed to bring about your fear of being sick and dying. Didn't you know that theirs is the ONLY way?

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well that is whats at stake, 45 000 people do die every year in this country because the measure has not been enacted, it's not an idle thought.

            1. JSChams profile image60
              JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              45,000 people will most likely continue to die after it is enacted.
              These are politicians and this is now tax money. It will go some other direction. It always does.

              1. Josak profile image61
                Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                45 000 die because they have no insurance, now everyone will, end of story tens of thousands more die because their insurance limits run out, insurance limits no longer exist as of 2014, and they are 750 000 now. Any excuse not to acknowledge that millions upon millions are dead because this measure was not passed decades ago like it should have been under Kennedy.

                1. Cagsil profile image73
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  45,000 die because they have no insurance. Hmmm...interesting how they came to that conclusion, considering more people die for other reasons which are actually more important than whether or not they buy a product from some company.

                  1. Josak profile image61
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    people dying is important no matter what the reason, especially when a tiny tax increase can prevent it, especially when it's tens of thousands of lives, tens of thousands of families destroyed, homes lost etc. I know there are other reasons people die, we should fix those too.

                    Also just to re-iterate on your homelessness is 15% comment:

                    The problem is you are wrong, you know facts and all that? According to the homeless annual report to congress it's less than 1%. For the second time today, checking your facts is a good habit.

                2. JSChams profile image60
                  JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok Josak..
                  For decades the liberal politicians annually come to the podium. People dying , people poor, people sick, people uneducated.
                  They always get their bill passed and signed because the other politicians want to be re-elected.
                  But all those people remain in the same state they were in. And the next year those same people come to the podiums and give the same tired speeches and get more tax dollars.

                  Where does it all go Josak? Not where it's supposed to.
                  I think we had this conversation once and I talked about Bob Geldof and Live Aid and the unintended consequences there.

                  Where is this different?

                  1. Josak profile image61
                    Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Things like medicare have saved millions of lives, the numbers are there, we can look at other countries and see it works, want to know how many people die every year because they can't afford care in Australia (where I am now)? absolutely none.

                  2. Friendlyword profile image59
                    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    This involves real lives that will be saved because they have medical insurance and can get life saving medical care.  Some people are denied treatment under their current policy; that will end.  These are real live people that will live to fight another day. 

                    This is not just another back and forth intellectual debate anymore! Your neighbors life is on the line.

          2. 0
            screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Naive statement my! Old saying can't fix ! Believe what you want!

        2. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
          crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's not a naive statement.

          What if you were with out health care and you had a tooth break off and they told you that even though you were in horrific pain that there was nothing they could do for you. This happens in the homeless population in our country everyday.

          Or what if you were a 55 year old woman out of work and you kept having bladder infections over and over but no heath care was available for you.

          Or your a 60 year old man who has no health care insurance and you need blood pressure pills but no one will or can help.

          I have had those three problems and many many more come across my desk in the last week. I bought the man thirty days of blood pressure pills. I could not help the woman with the repeated bladder infections and we paid to have the 27 year old man's tooth extracted.

          Why should these people not be covered by health care. It's a myth that the ER will help anyone. That is not true.

          Every American citizen deserves health care and yes those of us who have more should help pay for it. Not one dime should go out of this country until every American has health care. Not one dime should go out of this country as long as we have hunger. Today is the last day of the month and I'm looking out the window at about a thousand or more people in the soup kitchen line waiting to eat. This should not be going on here in America. There are children every where in that line.

          A lot of these people are homeless. They should have a place to live.

          And yes it should be the responsibility of each and every American.

          I am a retired US Naval Officer and a Vietnam Veteran. I so men fight and die so these things wouldn't happen here in the USA. I have health care , I have a place to live and food in the refrigerator but many many Americans do not and shame on anyone that doesn't want to help.

          Keep letting the Republicans and the Democrats play SPIN GAMES with you or stand up and be counted as a American who cares about his fellow American.

          1. Cagsil profile image73
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually crazyhorsesghost, I'm not playing any SPIN GAMES from either political side.

            So please, save the speeches for someone who is willful ignorant.

            And, yes it was a naive statement. Obviously, NOT thought out before said.

  8. JSChams profile image60
    JSChamsposted 4 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6833157_f248.jpg

    1. Friendlyword profile image59
      Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Josak said:
      "You realize that medicare saves hundreds of thousand of children and babies right, which then go on to become tax payers?"

      The Health Care Act was not designed to hurt you. Stop looking at it from a completely selfish point of veiw and see what great things your tax money
      helps to accomplish.  Somebody may live because of the 5 extra cents you might have to pay next year?
      (just a guess)

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If I believed that nickel went where it was supposed to I might not be so against it.
        But it won't because it's run by politicians .

      2. Cagsil profile image73
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        If you really believe that, then you truly have your eyes closed to government action. hmm

        1. Friendlyword profile image59
          Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Again Cagsil, that's not the point.  I don't care how bad government works, sometimes it stumbles onto something really helpful.  This is a good pile the government stepped into.

          1. Cagsil profile image73
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Actually, that is the point Friendlyword. Government is ineffective and inefficient, and has been since it's inception.

            Have you ever asked yourself why it has remained that way for over 200+ years? Last time I checked, humans learn, adapt and improve, yet government hasn't.

            Hmmm.......... yikes
            Actually, they are so used to the general public being willful ignorant, so they are not stumbling onto anything really helpful. It's dressed up that way, but as usual, it has the same level of transparency as elections do. lol
            roll The government couldn't step in s**t and come out smelling like a rose, even on it's best day. Why? Politicians are nothing but mere puppets for a completely different agenda. That agenda isn't in the best interests of society, but is so specific few can absorb more taxpayer dollars without increase the value of any product/goods or service.

  9. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 4 years ago

    And he said it so quickly... and yet much of it is modeled after his own Romney care. So another double standard from Romney? I don't trust him at all.

    Another probable plus for the AFC act is that it no longer traps people in jobs that they only keep for their health benefits. How many Americans stay in jobs for this reason??

    1. American View profile image60
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      How does it do that?

    2. 0
      screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's a good point. Most couldn't afford the cobra plan if they left a company. Now one can move on and not have their health care interrupted while looking or starting a new job! Many stay in jobs they don't like just because of the healthcare benefit.

      1. American View profile image60
        American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Scream

        How does it do that? If you could not afford Cobra, how will you afford any insurance

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You do realize insurance will be subsidized for low earners right? Depending on low low his income is it might even be free.

          1. American View profile image60
            American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I do, but does everyone else? All I hear is how "everyone will have health care and it will save tax money because the poor will be covered"

            Do people realize Obama's plan is to make the rolls of Medicare and Medicaid larger, and where does that funding come from? That's right, the taxpayers who will now be paying higher premiums on their policy and higher taxes to cover those that are added to the Medicare/Medicaid rolls.

            1. Friendlyword profile image59
              Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Do people realize Obama's plan is to make the rolls of Medicare and Medicaid larger, and where does that funding come from? That's right, the taxpayers who will now be paying higher premiums on their policy and higher taxes to cover those that are added to the Medicare/Medicaid rolls."

              My friend and I make about the same in salary. I pay 80 dollars a month for my health insurance.
              My neighbor with his special needs daughter pays 700 hundred dollars a month for his health care. Tomorrow, My neighbor will go looking for insurance that  won't charge him an insane premium because of his daughters' pre-existing condition.  Tuesday, my friend will be able to feed his family on his own.

              1. 0
                screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I'll believe that when I see it. Pre existing conditions? If that's all he's paying he's got a good deal. Been there, done that. And you pay 80? As a single payer and not thru your job? From who? ANd if that's the first years monthly premium you're in for a bigsurprise when the plan renews.

                1. Friendlyword profile image59
                  Friendlywordposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes,
                  Half from my job and half from my union.  We won't know what an individual pays until the exchanges are set up.

                  1. American View profile image60
                    American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So you pay 80, the union pays 80 and your job pays 80 for a total of 240 per month. I that what you are saying because if there is a policy for 80 per month everyone will purchase it tomorrow

        2. 0
          screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          When I was replaced by two 21 year olds at age 50, the cobra was out of my reach. If I have affordable insurance under President Obama's plan, I would be able to pick up a policy right a way while securing another job.. Insurance companies fool you at the gate now. When I left I bought Ga blue cross for $300.00 a month. Couldn't use it first year due to high blood pressure. After the first year, my renewal went to $1,250.00 a month which I couldn't afford.
          .

          1. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Young people are at less risk for certain medical conditions compared to someone your age or older and therefore cheaper to insure as a whole.  Some folks never take this into consideration when discussing these things.  Yeah, nothing personal, they say.  But this is part of the problem.  Nothing seems personal enough these days.  We are merely statistics in many books. 

            We hear "patriotism" and "love thy neighbor" among other lofty sayings bandied about by some of the same people who are griping about helping sick people, many who cannot afford the" best medical treatment in the world" which is another of the favored boasts of those touting our superiority in medical science.

            It's one thing for political parties to disagree on taxes, religion, spending, and many other things, but to oppose each other along ideological lines when sick adults--and especially children--are suffering or dying, is the closest thing to the complete failure of our country I can imagine.

            We must get out from under the thumb of those using greed to extort money from the sick.  A profit is one thing, but putting needed medicine out of the reach of those who need it, just because they can, is akin to murder. 

            Yes, I'm ticked off at the cost of medicine and treatment in this greedy country.  The Hippocratic Oath is almost a myth today.  Rant over!  Sorry Screaming, I got carried away!  lol

                                                 http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

            1. American View profile image60
              American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              RG,

              "Yes, I'm ticked off at the cost of medicine and treatment in this greedy country."

              Would it not make more sense to attack the problem at its roots? Would it not make sense to attack the high cost of medicine and treatments, its cause and fix that. What does Obamacare do to fix that, nothing.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                There can be nothing done to deal with the pharmaceutical companies until the entire system is organized enough make the same deals other countries get for buying American produced drugs.  We pay at least twice as much for the same medicines as they do.  Rationalize that for me if you can.  We have to start somewhere, AV.  I can buy my medication from Canada or Mexico for less than I can get it here with paying exorbitant insurance premiums. 

                One of the 2 glaucoma medicines I take finally went generic--no thanks to Dubya who extended the patents on some medications--and now the brand name costs less than the generic.  lol

                And are you suggesting conservatives will come up with something better?  people are dying in this country.  Healthy people are more productive workers.  They pay taxes when they work.  The people ARE the country.  Medical care should be the number one priority for the country.  Both sides need their asps kicked, I agree on that.  It should NOT be a party thing. 

                                                         http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

                1. American View profile image60
                  American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  RG,

                  "There can be nothing done to deal with the pharmaceutical companies"

                  Well that is where you make your first mistake. Obama has taxed and regulated pharmaceutical companies and there is another round coming into effect January 1,2013. That is a part of the rate increases policies have been seeing over the last several years.

                  Seems Obama thinks that is the answer

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So do your homework and see why the cons didn't want us to be able to deal with the drug companies like the other countries do and come back and straighten me out.  There was a reason drug companies were paying lobbyists over a million a day to stop this from happening.  We are their bread and butter suckers.  Bit I'll await your reply.  You tend to try to occasionally answer questions, unlike JS.  yikes

                                                                     http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

  10. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago

    The health care bill isn't perfect, but we've got to start somewhere. The U.S. has the most expensive health care of all advanced countries and the poorest results.

    1. American View profile image60
      American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And now it will be the largest bureaucracy in the world with the biggest price tag, the most taxes and the most regulations.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Most first world countries run public healthcare with much better results and lower costs than US healthcare ran while private, if they can do it so can we.

        1. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh yea those systems are the beaken of the world. That's why they come here when they have true major health issues, because our health care sucks. I do not have to wait 6 months for an appointment like they do in Canada

          1. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Don't take my word for it read the World health org report, they put US healthcare at number 37 in in the world. I am in Australia as a citizen, i can walk into the emergency room, (or be picked up by s free ambulance) receive care and walk out without ever paying a dime, I might get a prescription which is free if i have a low income and costs a fraction of what it would if i have a good income, the Australian economy is still one of the strongest in the world and has had this scheme for decades, anyone who suggests getting id of it would no longer be a viable candidate, it works.

            1. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
              crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yes the Australian system works. I don't know why so many citizens in the USA are so against a similar system here in the USA.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Wow! How does all those poor people in your mentioned countries afford the trip here and the cost of our exorbitant medical care, AV?  Oh, you mean the rich people from those countries, right?  Like those wealthy folks here who can afford it, I suppose.  Gimme a break!  lol

                                                          http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

            1. American View profile image60
              American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              RG

              No question that the majority of those that come here are wealthy, but many  countries do send their poor here for healthcare. Truth is Sweden is the biggest reciever of people that go their for health care. We have several hospital that accept people from other countries healthcare, one is in Cleveland, one is in Washington. I am sure there are more, I just know of those two

              1. Randy Godwin profile image94
                Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Sure, but are those poor countries who send their poor here?  If not, then how can they send them here when they can can barely feed them?    A list of the countries would help to see why they send them here. Because we have certain treatments that our own poor cannot afford?

                                                            http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

  11. Friendlyword profile image59
    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago

    Thank you CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS for your humanity and strength of heart!


    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6833320_f248.jpg

  12. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
    crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago

    Sorry then Cagsil. But it is my belief that every American should have Health Care.

    1. Cagsil profile image73
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm of the same understand that every American should have health care.

      However, the quality of said care is questionable when you depend on government's ineffectiveness and inefficiency which has plagued American for generation, after generation.

      It's not likely to turn out, as hoped or thought.

    2. peeples profile image89
      peeplesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Crazyhorse, Just curious here and excuse my butting in but Do you think it should be given to them or forced on them or just the Option to have it? You said a lot up there I agree on but I couldn't tell if you just want it affordable for all or handed out. Curious as to your opinion. Thanks!

  13. Friendlyword profile image59
    Friendlywordposted 4 years ago

    In the end it's the only Government you have so deal with it. (Voting would be a great start!)

    1. Cagsil profile image73
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Really?

      Do you really have a choice in who you vote for?

      Independent, Republican, Democrat? Who is backing these people? It's not the majority of the citizens. It's the minority of citizens which are the puppet masters of those who are shown to the public as running mates.

      You would have get serious about what voting truly means. The present system where you get to pick and choose between rich folk is getting boring and doing more damage than worth.

      A trillion dollar deficit.
      A multi-trillion dollar national debt.
      A government stripping rights replaced by laws.
      A status quo which is pure corruption at it's best.
      A government that wastes billions with no hope or recovering that money.
      A government which refuses to address poverty.
      A government which refuses to address homelessness.
      A government which refuses to address starving people here, but spends billions upon billions to aid the starving abroad.

      Not to mention, whenever the government spends money it has to borrow money because the government doesn't make money(a surplus).

      You want to know who is in control in America, look at the bankers or look at the upper 1% of the world's wealthiest, not only America's upper 1%, and then you'll know who is in control.

      1. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
        crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree 100 percent and your 100 percent right.

  14. crazyhorsesghost profile image86
    crazyhorsesghostposted 4 years ago

    If there are people who can not pay then it should indeed be given to them. I work with the poor, hungry, and homeless every day and there are a lot of people in this country with no income.

    The unemployment rate reported is not right because it only counts people who are looking for work and receiving unemployment benefits.

    We should cut out any foriegn aid, any payments to the UN and any payments to rebuild countries we destroyed in war as long as their is one American citizen with out health care, one homeless American or one hungry American. We fed over a thousand hungry Americans tonight in Charlotte NC, 2041 in New Orleans, 1741 in Jacksonville Florida  all tonight. It is always higher at the end of the month. Many of these people have no where to live and no where to sleep tonight.

    No American citizen should have to sleep under a bridge.

    Much is being hidden from the average American citizen.

    Do You Know

    There are over 15,000 homeless people on the streets of New Orleans tonight.

    Another 300,000 people never came back to New Orleans because they have no home to come home to. And it's hurricane season again.

    There are 2,700 homeless in Charlotte NC

    One in six Americans are hungry at least twice in a month. That includes children.

    There are an estimated 1,000,000 homeless people in California. They feed thousands every night in downtown San Francisco.

    I could go on and on.

    Many many Americans about 30 million have no health care and most of those do not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare and they are barely able to buy shelter and food so healthcare is out.

    What if you had to live like that.

    NAFTA destroyed the American Textile Industry.

    American is a broken country and the politicians play SPIN games to try to take peoples minds off the real problems.

    If America goes for the next twenty years the way it has the last twenty years it will break up into several smaller countries just like Russia did.

    Our roads and bridges are falling down. And no one is fixing them.

    BUT THE POLITICAL SPIN GAME GOES ON.

    Shame on any American that plays into it.

  15. carol3san profile image59
    carol3sanposted 4 years ago

    I was as surprised as most people of the outcome of the supreme court ruling in favor of Obamacare. I believe it is a good thing for the country.  There are simply too many benefits to the health care plan to be overlooked or voted down.

  16. JSChams profile image60
    JSChamsposted 4 years ago

    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6833971_f248.jpg

    1. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Where are you from, JS?  And did you vote for McCain/Palin?  Just wondering about your judgement on things.  smile

                                              http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Randy let me just help you along here and you can get back to your beer.

        I am only voting for Mitt Romney  because Barack Obama is on the other side of the ticket and I will get laughed at if I write in my cat Lucky.
        Basically I am for whoever is running against him. Except Ron Paul.

        Happy now?

        1. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It is amazing those who want to accuse others of voting party line when they themselves would never vote against their party. They just cannot understand people will vote against Obama due to his horrible policies.

          I often wonder what Democrats would be saying if Obama was a Republican.

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have always seen Conservatives accused of lock step behavior.
            Try to get one of these folk to even discuss voting other than for Barack.
            I learned my lesson when Hilary did not challenge him even tough everyone on this planet knows she wants to. It's sad and almost Soviet.

            1. Cody Hodge profile image84
              Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So why is it that Democrats are always the ones who are willing to compromise? Conservatives lately seem to just hold their breath until they get what they want like spoiled children.

              1. American View profile image60
                American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Show me something the Republicans have held their breath on lately. I am curious

                1. Cody Hodge profile image84
                  Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Uh....the whole healthcare thing.

                  Abortion Rights

                  Unions

                  Education that includes any mention of scientific theories such as evolution

                  Ya know, the basic stuff.

                  1. American View profile image60
                    American Viewposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Other than the horrible Obamacare bill, show me the bills before the congress now on education mentioning scientific studies, Bills about unions, ya know, the basic stuff.

                    See you will not be able too because there are none. You are talking ideologies of both parties. And as it goes for Obamacare, the Republicans were helpless to stop it.

                    So my question stands, show me something the Republicans are holding their breath over.

          2. Cody Hodge profile image84
            Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'd be shocked that a member of the GOP in this political climate could exercise common sense while actually looking out for the people as opposed to the corporations.

          3. Randy Godwin profile image94
            Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Wow!  Both you and JS are apparently psychic to know how I would vote or have voted.  See, this is why I ASK before assuming such things.  I give the benefit of the doubt until questions and answers ascertain my suspicions.  You guys, on the other hand, assume I'm a "beer drinkin' party line towin' socialist" because I disagree with you on this.  No wonder you guys are so confused on this subject.  I'll bet you guys voted independent the last few elections, right?  See, I can make wrong assumptions with the best of you guys.  I choose not to though.  lol   



            "How in the heck did he get nominated to the republican party!  That's why I voted for him!"  Or something to the effect.  lol

                                                     http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

        2. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No, why should your response make me happy?  lol Why can't you help both you and I along by responding to my questions? JS.  You've ignored most them and instead make more statements.

          Did I ask you if you were voting for Mitt?  That's a no-brainer if one reads your posts.  Duh!  lol  And the "you can get back to your beer" inference was really cute too.  roll

          And I'd vote for the cat if I were you, it has a much better chance of winning.  smile


                                                 http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

          1. 0
            screamingposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            rotflmao....It's amazing to me also Randy. You ask them a question and they quickly take an about face and they shoot you a question off topic. Avoiding answering the question at hand!

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              It's because they have no answers, Screaming.  For them, it's better to do nothing at all rather than accept any type of universal health care which would inhibit the untold graft from the medical related industry.  And this is what is is now.  No humanitarianism anymore, merely "what's the profit margin to the big boys." 


                                                    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/6812619.jpg

    2. Billy Hicks profile image88
      Billy Hicksposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +50 Internets to you good sir.

      1. Cody Hodge profile image84
        Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        "Just because a couple of people on the Supreme Court say its constitutional doesn't mean it is."-Rand Paul

        "Umm....Yea, It Does"-Supreme Court

        1. Cagsil profile image73
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey Cody,

          And IF you had a completely different panel of Judges, do you think it would work out the same way still? If so, then please do a little bit more thinking than that of yourself and try to see what is in the best interest of society.

          Your post assume too much. Even the Supreme Court does have it's limits and just because they say something is Constitutional, doesn't actually mean it's RIGHT nor does it mean it is in the best interest of the society it governs over laws.

          All the Supreme Court did was make something legal. Doesn't mean it's right or Constitutional. They circumvented Constitutionality by calling it a tax instead, because it's easier to escape the Constitutional issue of whether or not it's a violation. Which it is, if it's not a tax.

          1. Cody Hodge profile image84
            Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            They made it a point to say they weren't deciding on whether or not it was good policy. They just said it was legal. And since the Constitution makes the Supreme Court the final arbiter of legal matters, I would say you would have little recourse to challenge the legality of the law. Whining only makes you look petty at this point.

            What if there had been different judges? So what, maybe they rule a different way. However, they didn't so what's your point?

            I laugh when you say they circumvented the Constitution. Again, that's there job to determine what the document says.

            Also, who says I'm not thinking of all of society? Isn't that what people who don't support this law are doing?

            1. Cagsil profile image73
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There's always recourse. Don't forget your place as a citizen.
              I'm not whining. Children whine. Grow up.
              The point being that you've taken a position which is false. Duh!
              Determine what the document says? Or what it doesn't say too? roll How limited of thought you are. Sad to see.
              I said you're not thinking of all  of society. Just a little old sheep.
              No. The people who don't support the law are interested in getting government OUT of the lives of the citizens on an individual level. Duh!

              1. Cody Hodge profile image84
                Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Recourse...such as a constitutional amendment to get rid of the court?

                I understand that most conservatives are going to try to repeal the law, but you can't just say the court is invalid because a ruling doesn't go your way. Yes, that IS whining.

                I don't understand why you are taking such issue with the role of the court. It is their job to interpret the document. Has been for 200 years. Should we overturn Roe v Wade, Brown v Board of Education or how about getting rid of Miranda rights too while we are at it? As long as you don't agree I guess it just means that those pesky judges are re-writing the Constitution.

                The Affordable Care Act (or affordable care CAT to some people) is not going to be an intrusion into your life. You realize that you can keep your insurance if you like it. If you have it, there is no tax. Maybe if insurance companies did something about controlling costs it wouldn't have had to get this far.

                BTW, don't assume that I don't think for myself. If I couldn't I'd probably be against this law.

                1. Cagsil profile image73
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Good to know. You're a walking example of most people in America. yikes A person who truly knows nothing about the power of being a citizen. Good job.

                  1. Cody Hodge profile image84
                    Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Lol...

                    Is this because I don't agree with you?

  17. Cody Hodge profile image84
    Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago

    Oh, so now the states don't matter? So I guess its OK that in Texas the children are being taught to not think critically so the Christian belief system their parents teach them won't ever be questioned?

    In Virginia, there is a law that takes effect today that requires a woman to get an ultrasound before having an abortion. There was another proposed law that would have legally defined a person as a person from the day of conception. Unfortunately, that would have violated the law. Why does that matter? The Virginia governor, Bob McDonnell, is a potential VP candidate for Mitt Romney.

    How is Obamacare terrible? Oh, I forgot its YOUR tax dollars and YOUR tax dollars only that are going to POSSIBLY be paying for a health care bill that will benefit the entire country. Nevermind the fact that Mitt Romney was for it before he was against it.

  18. 0
    screamingposted 4 years ago

    Ann1Az2....I believed that when I voted for President Bush. He convinced me giving the wealthy and corporate america tax breaks more jobs would be created. HE LIED! He also promised to sign a bill where small same type businesses could group together for better healthcare rates! HE LIED! And the Romney Crew and Republicans continue to LIE that the healthcare bill will hurt middle class! THEY ARE LIEING! But it will add taxes to big business and the top 1 percent!

    1. JSChams profile image60
      JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      See you make the fallacious error in believing most of us would vote for Romney for his policies.
      We will vote for Romney to oust Obama. Nothing more, nothing less.
      Oh....not just Barack. His entire administration.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You just gotta get that black guy outta the White House!

        1. JSChams profile image60
          JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I has nothing to do with that but you have no ideas so there you go.

  19. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/252610_466850710009842_1530924271_n.jpg

    https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554258_473217369373176_243041162_n.jpg

    IT'S NOT A "TAX"! IT'S A FINE FOR FREELOADING! IT WILL BE DEPOSITED IN A FUND TO HELP DEFRAY THE HIGHER HEALTHCARE AND INSURANCE COSTS ALL RESPONSIBLE AMERICANS PAY, EVERY TIME AN UNINSURED FREELOADER (TEA PARTY REPUBLICAN?) CONSUMES ULTRA-EXPENSIVE EMERGENCY CARE THEY CAN'T PAY FOR. TOTALLY FAIR AND SENSIBLE.

  20. briars2roses profile image71
    briars2rosesposted 4 years ago

    Most people do not realize that we have had Government ran healthcare in this country for years and years.  Just go to a Indian Hospital on a reservation.  Or talk to older people that came from countries such as England.   I have seen many people die in Indian Hospitals or not get well because it's a cattle call.   The doctors are paid set rates, they burn out fast.   People are pushed through like cattle. 

    Now having said all that, you can read the entire Obamacare plan online, and if you read it you will find little fine print items.   Such as the elderly can be refused medical treatment because they are expendable, same for certain handicaps.   Any time we start to devalue life,  I think we need to come up with a new system. 

    Please understand I am not saying that we do not already have doctors who treat people this way or are just there for the pay, but instead of creating a bigger circus of these providers, lets pass laws or enact something that protects the patient.

    1. Jane Bovary profile image90
      Jane Bovaryposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I find that very hard to believe. Do you have a source for that? (other than having to read the entire plan). Sounds like fear-mongering misinformation, along the lines of Sarah Palin and her mythical *death panels*.

      1. KFlippin profile image59
        KFlippinposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Rather than take that stance, why not read the bill yourself?  Even Pelosi had no idea what was in it, you want to just have faith that it is a 'good bill'?

        1. Cagsil profile image73
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Gotta love that huh? hmm

          On a side note- Ask Jane where she is from or is currently living? See, if that changes your view. I'm not saying it will, but it's a thought.

        2. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I read the bill and found no such extension of that. It already happens to a certain extent, if you are 90 and need heart transplant you will be behind in the waiting line compared to someone in their 30s, it's simply mathematics but other than that, I don't think that's true.

      2. briars2roses profile image71
        briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Just do a search they have had the obamacare posted on a .gov site for quite some time now.   And as for the other information,  I am originally from the reservations and grew up with the indian hospitals.   Go live on a reservation for more than a year and make friends.   Go take your friend to the hospital next time she's sick and than decide if you want government ran hospital care.   Take a poll among vets what most of them think of the VA hospitals.   Don't get me wrong.. some are great, but some might as well be a concentration camp for all the care they get.

        1. briars2roses profile image71
          briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Read about IPAB in the Obama care.    Or you can look at http://www.akdart.com/obama185.html   this breaks it down, and than you can go back and read the Obamacare again.

          1. briars2roses profile image71
            briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Here is another link that is a good read

            https://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/201 … r-surgery/

        2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
          Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I know several veterans who speak highly of VA hospitals.

          1. briars2roses profile image71
            briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            me too... but I also know equal amounts that can tell you horror stories.   My family has a lot of military in it.   My dad was,  my brother,  my ex husband, his brother, his father,  my husband's father,  his uncles... aunts.   I have some uncles and aunts.   

            I lost a uncle because of the fact that it was government ran and he was denied a life saving operation.    My children's great grandma died in England because of socialized medicine, she too was denied the proper care because she was ran through like cattle.   And coming from a reservation I can't even begin to express the horrors I have seen.   

            Not all VA's are bad.   But ask most doctors what they think about Obamacare and how it will affect them.   You aren't going to get many positive responses.

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I could tell you several horror stories about regular hospitals. A woman recently got a flesh-eating bacterial infection following surgery in a Detroit area hospital. And of course hospitals are the most likely place to get staph infections because the staff fails to wash their hands.

              1. Reality Bytes profile image93
                Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So there is a chance that a person could get staph from staff?

                lol

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                  Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ha!

  21. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    Muddling along...

  22. paradigmsearch profile image91
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    I have never seen the forums this dead before.

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      True. HubPages' traffic has been declining lately. So has Squidoo's.

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It is summertime. Others have a life.

  23. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/602460_475126279182285_1910082049_n.jpg

  24. JSChams profile image60
    JSChamsposted 4 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/6862394_f248.jpg

    1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
      Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      http://www.bible-basics-layers-of-understanding.com/images/TeaParty200.jpg

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You know I only posted that because you insist on all the graphic lies.

        1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
          Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6862561_f520.jpg

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Great response.

          2. briars2roses profile image71
            briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I don't see much truth in the above statement.   it's already been shown that Obama has spent more during his 4 years than the last how many presidents combined?   

            2nd I live in a Republican State supposedly... we are big into Green Energy. 

            Last people I heard pressing Global Warning was Al Gore... and it's the Democrats that say Global Warming exists despite scientific evidence to the contrary or that their records were exposed two or three years ago.

            People need to get off this Republican/Democrat crud and do what's best for the US.    Instead of them trying to stop each other and not caring if one side or the other came up with a good solution they need to work together.   

            I don't vote by Republican or Democrat.. i vote for who represents what I believe in.    And the evict the GOP should be evict them all... and get all new people in who will represent what the majority wants instead of all being bought off.

            1. Cagsil profile image73
              Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              First people must realize that there's NO difference between Republican and Democrat before the citizens can do anything about it.

              Both Republican and Democrat, flip side of the same coin. An illusion of representatives with supposedly different ideologies.

              However, both oppress people and that is what should matter.

              1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "there's NO difference between Republican and Democrat before the citizens can do anything about it."


                Just curious, where'd you get that idea? For openers, the Democrats supported the health care reform act, and the GOP wants to repeal it. The Dems passed Dodd-Frank financial regulatory bill, and the GOP wants to gut it in response to objections from JPMorganChase and the rest of the banksters. I'm not going to spoon feed you, but there are plenty of other significant differences between the two parties although they both share some of the same flaws such as two ready to use military action on situations that don't require it and/or are susceptible to diplomacy. And both of them to a certain extent have allowed the bankers, drug companies, coal companies, electric power companies, and others co-opt the regulatory process. They are similar in that they both support a democratic private enterprise system. However, the Democratic party is more inclined to regulate to insure that markets deliver honestly and fairly on their promise of efficient allocation of resources. Also, the DEMS are much more inclined to tax and spend money on public goods--roads, bridges, rapid transit and other infrastructure, parks, education, and so forth while the GOP in the persons of Grover Norquist and his little pull-toy, Paul Ryan want to cut taxes and vital public services.

              2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
                Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                So, what's your solution???

                1. Cagsil profile image73
                  Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  When I am ready to reveal my solution, I will. Until then, I'm just trying to increase awareness and knowledge of citizens, as to the BS of the land.

                  I haven't finished putting together everything I need. There are going to be problems putting some of it in place. I will need assistance from citizens for implementation.

                  Once I have everything outlined, then I will write the Hub(s) with it. There are a lot of factors involved and not to mention, the puppet masters are not going to want anything but what is in place already. Which will evidently make my work harder.

            2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
              Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "Last people I heard pressing Global Warning was Al Gore... and it's the Democrats that say Global Warming exists despite scientific evidence to the contrary or that their records were exposed two or three years ago."

              IMHO, you need to broaden your sources of information. It is the scientists who have demonstrated that global warming "exists."  Secondly, are you aware of who is financing Mitt Romney's campaign: a bunch of billionaires, e.g., the Koch brothers who made most of their money in the oil business, a bunch of Texas oil men who are funding Karl Rove's super pac, the National Rifle Association which is funded mostly by gun manufacturers who don't want any laws that slow down their gun sales pipeline to the Mexican drug lords. And of course there's Sheldon Adelman who made his billions with casinos in Macau where prostitutes lure the suckers to the gaming tables. Do these guys seem like they are better qualified than you and me to pick our next president? Well, thanks to the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision that "corporations are people" and have the same first amendment rights to contribute unlimited amounts to political campaigns our elections have become a billionaire's game.

              1. briars2roses profile image71
                briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                And can you honestly say who ALL funded Obama's last campaign and this one... cause they were all billionaires too... and half of them with the UN in their pockets.   

                Number 2... Global warming is bunk to a LARGE degree.   This I know for fact because my first cousin is the top in his field.

            3. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
              Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You don't see the truth because you don't want to . . .

              Here are the facts graphically:

              http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/052312spending.jpg
              https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563311_10150914238176275_1024890884_n.jpg
              https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/603162_10150882802686275_672971101_n.jpg
              https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/524964_10150850048191275_1051516663_n.jpg

              1. briars2roses profile image71
                briars2rosesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am not just talking about his federal spending.. I am talking his spending ALL in all on our tax payer dollars.    Our senators, governors, Presidents are mostly self made millionaires.   They get benefits that our military doesn't even get... ALL on our tax payer dollars.   They should be serving this country for free or darn near.   They should not be getting what they are.. and why are they exempt from Obamacare????      If those men would forgo their salaries and stop using tax payer dollars for everything.. it would set a great example and would be a good place to start cutting back.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You really... *sigh*

                  Look no one is except from Obamacare I know you vaguely heard that there were exceptions and took that as gospel without knowing what it means. The exceptions just mean that until 2014 the companies unions and governemnt bodies (about 2000 I believe) don't have to raise their insurance coverage to 750 000, in 2014 the exceptions will become void and all companies/unions/governemnt bodies and officials will have NO limit on their insurance coverage, Pretty much everyone who applied for an exemption got one, all you had to prove was A either your healthcare plan limit is better than 750 000 (this was the case for some of the unions) or that you would suffer from not having time to change gradually.

                  many politicians including most governors etc do forgo their wages but I am not convinced that is a good thing, the reason those wages exists is so that you don't have to be rich to be a politician, unfortunately they all are so we get no representative balance.

            4. Cody Hodge profile image84
              Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yea....there isn't much scientific evidence to the contrary...

    2. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6863452_f248.jpg


      Socialism is a workers movement with the above taglines, socialism was a movement begun by people who worked 16 hours a day and lived on average to about the age of forty because of how hard and dangerous their work was and they didn't want less work, they wanted to be able to make enough money after working 16 hours a day six days a week to feed their families.

  25. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FxwAAcmkxpk/S7K-oUG345I/AAAAAAAAB0U/psUu63ZurxI/s1600/weve+got+waht+it+takes.jpg

  26. maxoxam41 profile image80
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    Habee is finally thinking about the others! ALLELUIAH! She is human thank you lord, you do EXIST! Obamacare is for the others TOO.
    And why would Habee with her teacher salary vote for the billionnaires' mascot?

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image59
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think Habee has always thought about others. She, I think, is a conservative but moderate in tone and a pragmatist. Habee thinks aloud and I like that, she asks questions and walks people through what she is thinking and why. You wouldn't normally hear me say this, but when I encountered Habee, I think I met an intelligent right winger...And that's rare.

      1. Cagsil profile image73
        Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol

        1. 0
          kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey You

          tongue

          are you doing ok?

          1. Cagsil profile image73
            Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I'm doing well. And you? smile

      2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +++

  27. maxoxam41 profile image80
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    The only problem is that for someone who is intelligent , she will vote against her interest and therefore favor Mitt. Where is her rationale?

  28. Onusonus profile image86
    Onusonusposted 4 years ago

    The president lies, and we get the biggest tax hike in American history. I know what my vote will be in November.
    http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/318894_4217287120232_354018521_n.jpg

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
      Ralph Deedsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "we get the biggest tax hike in American history"

      You apparently didn't read the Wizard's comment immediately above yours.

  29. 0
    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago

    Here Josak, let's show how controlling for variables affects the data.

    MMR for non-hispanic white women in the US is 10.5
    ~33% of white women are obese
    Obese women are 4.5 times more likely to die from pregnancy.

    So, of 10.5, 3.46 are obese. Of those 3.46, only 0.76(3.46/4.5) would have died if they weren't obese. 3.46 - 0.76 = 2.7/10.5 = 25% of the MMR rate in white non-hispanic women is directly attributable to obesity.

    MMR for non-hispanic black women in the US is 28.4
    ~55% of black women are obese
    Obese women are 4.5 times more likely to die from pregnancy.

    So, of 28.4, 15.62 are obese. Of those 15.62, only 3.47(15.62/4.5) would have died if they weren't obese. 15.62 - 3.47 = 12.15/28.4 = 42% of the MMR rate in black non-hispanic women is directly attributable to obesity.

    That's one variable. Variables affect statistics.

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's become astoundingly clear that you are grasping at straws, I have already addressed the race issue by comparisons with France. Obesity rates are as I said in my last comment a healthcare failing. Continuing this conversation is pointless as you are simply desperately attempting to muddy the facts that don't suit you.

      In answer to all these objections above all the neutralizing factors that many of the have (like the ethnic similarities of France) is the simple fact that the US spends twice the GDP percentage and nearly three times the amount of money per person on healthcare and still gets results that are very much in dispute and according to international bodies in charge of measuring them painfully bad.

      The evidence supporting public healthcare as superior is thus incontrovertible.

      1. 0
        JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        1 - Comparison with 1 country.
        2 - Actual estimates put the population at 2-7%, there is no official figure that I could find.

        You simply can't accept the fact that there are variables, and comparing country to country isn't necessarily apples to apples.

        In fact, the ONE instance I have provided of comparing apples to apples(cancer to cancer), you poo-poo away.

        Ok, how does healthcare treat obesity? How does France's healthcare system keep obesity at 1/3 the rate of America?

        I've been over all of this with you Josak. You ignore or dismiss facts when I present them to you, just as you completely dismissed me showing you the effect of obesity only on MMR rates.

        Incontrovertible... if you want longer wait times for treatment, equipment, specialists. If you want lower survival rates for cancer, and lower life expectancy.

        Keep clinging to your 'facts'. You have perfectly, undoubtably shown your unwillingness to consider anything other than what you already think.

        You have shown that you will use statistics, but you don't think variables matter.

        You even think that the US has high obesity rates because of poor healthcare... that's just sad. The US has high obesity because of poor diet and lifestyle.

  30. 0
    JaxsonRaineposted 4 years ago

    Besides, if you want to pick apart my sources, it would do you some good to look at peer-reviews of the WHO's healthcare system ranking. Less than 25% of their ranking has anything to do with the actual treatment a system provides. There are a lot of great research articles addressing the problems with the WHO ranking.

  31. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/545272_470674089627504_483057133_n.jpg

    1. Cagsil profile image73
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

  32. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
    Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago

    You shouldn't encourage me!

    http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/100000/Humpty-Romney--100045.jpg

    1. Cagsil profile image73
      Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why not?

      Politics in America is actually quite funny and depressing all at the same time.

      Remaining optimistic and keeping a humorous side is all too important nowadays. lol lol

      1. Wizard Of Whimsy profile image60
        Wizard Of Whimsyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree and I hope the R's come to the same realization.

        https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554083_406870752684156_1590136905_n.jpg

        lol

        1. Cagsil profile image73
          Cagsilposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          roll

          1. Cody Hodge profile image84
            Cody Hodgeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I agree....historically, both parties have been quite different than the parties that they are today.

          2. 0
            kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            lol

            still Cag's can't stop oh boy!

 
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