Should illegal immigrants be allowed to possess driver’s license?

Immigration
Immigration

We hope that President Obama re-think this issue.

The idea of illegal immigrants having the right to obtain a drivers license is an oxymoron. Logically speaking someone who is illegal should not possess a driver's license. That is the reason why this person is illegal; otherwise he/she would have been able to obtain a driver’s license if that person wanted one.

The word “illegal immigrants” and drivers “license” doesn’t coincide well with the American people. To most Americans, when they hear illegal immigrants having the right to obtain drivers license the first thing that comes to mind is job insecurity. They believe if illegal immigrants have the right to obtain a driver’s license then they also have a right to work with it. In a way, any proposition to legislate laws that would make this possible would cause the working class Americans to be outrage. As a reminder, it was this issue that had contributed to the removal of California Gov. Gray Davis out of office.

Some would argue that if the immigrant has illegally entered the country why not deport him instead of providing him with a driver’s license. By providing the illegal immigrant with a license proves that we welcome illegal immigrants in the country. Well, if that is the case then why not make the Illegal immigrants legal so that they're all in the same boat with the rest of our citizens. That way no one gets deported, right! I honestly believe that working class immigrants who pay their taxes deserve a chance to become legal immigrants, but not as illegal licenses.

Some of our grandparents came in this country at a time when this country was in great need of immigrants. They weren't offered driver's licenses; they were made immediate legal immigrants.

Some of which were professionals in their country which the US Government offered visa to come work for the United States. These people were prays to come work for the US and still they refuse. Among which were Italians, Irish, Polish, Chinese, Africans and Haitians. Yes! Haitian don't be shocked there were many opportunities in Haiti at that time. How do you think Chicago got discovered. It was a Haitian man who goes by the name of Jean Baptiste Pointe Du Sable (1745 - 1818) who founded Chicago - Source Hartford Web Publishing.

United State was at some point in desperate need for immigrants so please don't think that every foreigner that came to this country saw US as an opportunity. To be honest with you some came to help out, but for some reason end up staying, it is all there in the history books.

Since we are all aware that this country cannot truly run without illegal immigrants than the next question should be why would they need a driver’s license instead of a temporary visa. That led us to believe, if they’re required to have driver’s licenses than opportunities for different job classification would become accessible to them. But a driver's license would not have necessarily made them legal. Instead they would become more advantageous for the opportunist given the fact that a driver's license would have resulted to an increase in skills.

That raises lots of concerns among the legal immigrants and the citizens; they begin to think about job security. It is reasonable to think if the illegal immigrant is allowed to have a driver’s license than they will be allowed to drive their employer’s vehicles with them. If that happens, how would it affect the citizen and the legal immigrant is a good question to ponder about.

We know that illegal immigrants are necessities in this country. Almost every restaurant in New York City has a Mexican in the back, the construction industry thrives because of Mexican. Almost all the low paying job is performed by the Mexicans and other foreigners, and we still think that there is really a true effort to close the Mexican border. If the Mexicans are so important to us why not document them, make them part of our legal working class immigrants. But wait a minute; we can’t do that right now, because if we make them legal we also have to make their salary legal – nah bad idea, this is exactly how we think of it. Why?

I think most of you know the answer to that question, and if you're still thinking the answer is “profit”. Ladies and gentlemen, the greatest cost an employer can bear is labor. Free labor was the main reason for slavery therefore as long as companies continues to benefit from illegal immigrants; the need to disenfranchise them will always be good for all businesses.

Now you tell me, do citizens and legal immigrants have a right to worry about their job security? If illegal immigrants were to have access to driver’s licenses wouldn’t that affect the employment of our legal immigrants and citizens? Illegal immigrants having access to a driver’s licenses would have affected those of us whose jobs are in the sector of construction, mechanical, merchandising, distribution and a whole lot of other jobs held by legal citizens would have been threaten by illegal immigrants for the sake of profit. In this transition access to cheap labor crosses the boarder instead of outsourcing.

Those who would benefit are the same folks who would want to put in place laws that would allow illegal immigrants to possess driver’s licenses. They have attempted to pass this law in the name of national security, but you know as well as I do that this isn't true.

The documents presented at DMV to obtain a drivers license suggest that this person is legal otherwise without the 6 points which often include passport, a utility bill under the same name as the passport, a green card, social security card and maybe birth certificate are all documents that proves legal status. If an illegal immigrant has a drivers license it indicates that he possess all of the above mentioned documents. Which mean an employer doesn’t need to ask for further documents.

And under this law no employer should be punished for hiring undocumented immigrants because the driver’s license would suggest that the immigrant is legal, so why would the employer ask further questions, just hire the illegal. The employer would not have done anything wrong because by having the driver’s license it would have indicated to the employer that the employee is legal.

It seems to me that under this law, if it were to pass, the illegal immigrants would not have had the same requirements to obtain a driver's license as the citizens. This kind of inconsistencies within the system would have also become a concern.

If they wish to tighten national security that’s all good, but why would offer illegal immigrants driver’s licenses be one of the best solution? Why would illegal immigrants need to drive for that security to be effective? Why not provide them with state identification card which would have required of them to be finger printed. This is why we the blue collar class believes that ulterior motive is behind that law being enacted. And it is motivated through means of profit maximization without regard to our citizens who are here legal.

We hope that President Obama re-think this issue and while doing so keep in mind that illegal immigrants couldn't vote for him. It was we the blue collars from all unions who voted him in office. We understand that he made a promise to take up immigration reform first year in office. We hope that he look over the licensing issue because as it is right now the underline reasons conflict with the blue collar working class.

We want to keep our wages and our jobs, having illegal immigrants possessing licenses will cause businesses to take advantage of this situation, which would eventually resulted to a decline in wages. As it is right now inflation has gone up and our wages still stays the same. And to have illegal immigrants possess licenses will not be in the best interest of the working class, but instead that of the profit holders.

So in a sense we’re already lost since our wages didn’t increase with inflation, so please don’t allow this law to be enacted. Since we understood that we're in a recession we accept being inflated, after all we do have a job while others who would have liked one are jobless. That is one positive point to look forward to; the stimulus did help a bit. We’re counting on you Mr. President for honoring our licenses. We would like you to know that you have the support of all the local unions who voted for you in the last election.

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Comments 70 comments

Steve Orris profile image

Steve Orris 7 years ago from NE Ohio

This country can run well without illegal immigrants. If they come in legally, God bless them. I hope they do well. If they come in illegally they should be punished, not rewarded. The only work they should be doing is public service; until they are legal. Why should companies profit from exploiting workers?


issues veritas 7 years ago

Cool

Are you sure none of the illegals didn't vote period.

There are no real filters in the voting process, there is no validation.

Illegal immigrants, hurt the process that legal immigrants are taking to get into the country. It doesn't seem fair that the illegals can bypass the process. There are thousands of immigrants that are rejected from the legal process.

On top of a driver license, they need insurance.

BTW, I think the real plan behind giving the illegals driver licenses, is to identify and track them. Pretty much like the government tracks all of its citizens and legal immigrants.

 


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

I was a legal immigrant before I became a citizen so please don’t think for a minute that I don’t sympathize with the illegal immigrants.  I think it’s unfair to them as well as us for the government to offer them drive’s licenses and for them to still keep their illegal status. If they can drive a car than later on they’ll give them a commercial license.  What happen to us when that happens, well sense they illegal they’ll be exploited and if they’re being exploited we the citizens end up working for less?  Why? Think about it ….if we don’t accept the pay the company offers us, they’ll turn around and hire the illegal, leaving us with the choice to settle for less.

If it’s really about the sensors why not offer them state idea cards. It would serve the same purpose except they won’t be able to do our jobs until they obtain legal status.  The bottom line is if the government care so much about illegal immigrant why not make them legal and get it over with.

The idea of given illegal immigrant licenses doesn’t even make sense because if they illegal they shouldn’t have a driver’s license. That’s why they illegal because if they were not illegal they would have it.  The documents presented at DMV to obtain a drivers license suggest that this person is legal otherwise without the 6 points which often include passport, a utility bill under the same name as the passport, a green card, social security card and maybe birth certificate are all documents that proves legal status.

Now you tell me, if an illegal immigrant has a drivers license it indicates that he possess all of the above mentioned documents.  Which mean an employer doesn’t need to ask for further documents and under this law no employer should be punished for hiring undocumented immigrants because the driver’s license suggest that he may not be illegal so why would they ask further questions, just hire the illegal.


issues veritas 7 years ago

It is not so much about hiring the illegal it is about supporting them as if they are citizens.

If it looks like a duck then it is treated like a duck.

You are right about "illegal" should be the emphasis to handling the problem.

What is the sense of having Immigration Laws if they are not enforced.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

If president Obama wants to make the illegals who have been working in this country for so many years legal than that's just great. At least now, they'll be in the same boat as us. We won't have to worry about losing our jobs to illegal immigrants because then they won't be easily exploited.  Now that's what you call support - it's much harder to take advantage of a legal immigrants than when they're illegal. If they become legal than they can very well applied for a driver's license which would be find with us as far as I'm concern. If the immigrants are not afraid of being deported, they'll be able to bargain their wages instead of settling for penny on the dollar an hour.


issues veritas 7 years ago

You are right -- everybody into the same boat


Laura 7 years ago

American people? Who are American people? As far as I can remember in geology in third grade there is a North America and a South America, even Canadians are "American". So before you share your opinion do as much research as possible, and remember the basics are always important, for example this country is based on immigration and many states were originally Spanish. The borders crossed many people not the people the borders.


issues veritas 7 years ago

Laura

Time to go back to school, the books have been updated.

Canadians are in Canada

Mexicans are in Mexico

Americans are in the United States

Everyone knows who is being referred when they say American.

And the issue here is should illegal non Americans be given a privilege of driving in the United States. Even for American Citizens driving is a privilege and not a right.

BTW, did you mean Geography instead of Geology?


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hey! Lora it’s good to be a constructive critique, I can certainly appreciate that. However, I must say that your critique needs to be more constructive. Especially when you criticizing someone else work, you must be clear so that everyone gets it, better luck next time. Somehow I’m not sure that you’re fully aware what you’re talking about. Anyhow our world geography dictates that we’re situated in North America.  The countries that are part of the Americas are United State, Mexico, Canada and some countries of the Caribbean such as Puerto Rico, Cuba & Jamaica and others are all part of the Americas.  Now, why is it that United State is the only country that is referred to as the United State of America?  Why not the Mexico of America?  Since you seem to know better than every one else, so you tell us...


jjrubio 7 years ago

My grandpa was from Mexico and he became a US Citizen. And he used to rant and rave about the Mexican Citizens who would visit San Diego ( driving their cars with their orangish yellow BAJA license plates)...they cannot drive for SHIZNIT!!! And they DO NOT require them to get a license because they are supposedly "visiting". 

If you are Illegal ( snuck over the border without permission) in the country you cannot get a license...I know Border Patrol Agents who are my friends and my Cousins wife works for the DMV in SD too so I know what I am talking about).

Now if you are a Legal Alien Resident  or you have papers allowing you to come back and forth to America due to your job you can but you are not considered Illegal. My husband is not a citizen but he is a legal resident and working on his citizenship. There is a difference.


goldentoad profile image

goldentoad 7 years ago from Free and running....

I'm legal and I can't get a driver's license, have you seen the lines at the DMV? I hope I'm ahead of any illegals at least.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

I hear you goldentoad, but i'm sorry my friend -- they's no discremination at the DMV. Thanks for the reply jjrubio


Lisa HW profile image

Lisa HW 7 years ago from Massachusetts

An awful lot of Americans share the same views on illegal immigrants - and that is that they are illegal. The country is being drained by them; and even if they save a few questionable employers a few dollars, the country could do just fine without them. That willingness to disregard immigration laws means they'd willing to disregard any number of other laws, as well. There's a big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants, simply because legal immigrants.

I agree that illegal immigrants should not get licenses; but I suppose what people are thinking is that we all know they drive without licenses and without insurance anyway. Licenses would let the government keep track of them, at least to some degree. I'm not sure, though, that blue collar workers need to worry about their job more than they already must now. A driver's license would not make an illegal immigrant any more attractive to a lot of employers.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

HI! Lisa thanks for the comments I must say though legal and illegal immigrants are necessities in this country. I'm not sure where in the country you're situated but if it is a populated city where immigrants can be found in abundance, I suggest you visit your local hospitals, restaurants, nursing homes, construction sites, McDonalds, public schools, local police stations, and even some of your lawyers & doctors. As we speak, I can place a bet with you that they is no hospital in America without an immigrant Indian doctor working in it. Immigrants do all types of jobs in this country. This country was built on immigrants back -- we are all descendent of immigrants except those of us whose heritage derived from the American Indians. Immigrants are here to strengthen the country not weaken it. They is no America without immigrants - I think your teacher did you wrong in the history class.


MaRu 7 years ago

This country is standing because of immigrants.. leGal or illegal. If we want to look at the history.. Americans ARE IMMIGRANTS.. they came to this lands and brought slaves with them to work on the land.. the only people who really lived were the indians.. someone correct me if i'm wrong.. So i think that everyone should get a chance to do things the right way and become a legal citizen, and be able to work hard to reach the American Dream..

And one more thing... North America, South America... Latinos are AMericans too so get it right.


mishell818 profile image

mishell818 7 years ago from Van Nuys, Ca

Well, this is something that i havea very strong opinion about. Immigrants aren't always criminals. Has it ever occured to you that maybe some immigrants came to this counrty really young and really had no choice as to wether they'd want to be here or not? You keep stressing your concern about jobs and licenses and really theres a lot more to look at besides Immigrants and don't give them a license. You say immigrants shouldn't be allowed to have a D.L. and that doing so would only state that Immigrants are welcome in U.S, right? I say that if America really wanted to keep immigrants out, why allow them to work and still collect on taxes? Has it ever occured to you that maybe if "IMMIGRANTS" had a Drivers Licencse there would be less things to worry about? I.E. many immigrants are here to prosper, work, become someone in life, perhaps live the life that you have. You should feel flattered. But instead you worry, Why is that? Is it because you know that an undocumented person might to any job better than you? I think so, you know why? Because they have more to lose than you do. To you a job is no big thing, BEING AMERICAN AND ALL, right? To an undocumented person a job is a dream come true. That makes them feel more of a woman or man. They have managed to put food on the table a bit longer. I'm sure that you have realized by now that you weren't just made of an 100% american seed? We are all mixed some way some how. So I would like to know what makes you think you're any better than any undocumented person living in the United States.? To me it seems as if you lack a bit of self confidence and feel the need to worry that there might just be someone out there that ISN'T at your so called "Level" that perhaps instilled some fear in you.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

I said illegal immigrant shouldn't have the right to obtain a driver's lisence - not immigrant. we're all immigrants but we are not all illigal immigrants. They's a difference beautiful.


sneakorocksolid 7 years ago

Nice points CB, however; nothing matters until our borders are closed and illegals sent home. Make easier for them to come and work but protect us from thier criminals, we have our own. Look, if their not here with the proper documentation they are here illegally. If some one robbed a bank so they could enjoy the things that comes with earning money or to support their families we should let them off because they just wanted to be like us? What?! Lets face it if they are here and are not caring the correct visas or documentation they broke the law which makes them criminals. If they are willing to break one law why not another ? How about car insurance, taxes, seat belt laws, loitering, theft of service(schools, hospitals)? One of the reasons we have immigration laws is to protect our way of life and I know from experience illegals don't give a rats ass about our way of life. If you had watched a US v. Mexico soccer match you would here them chanting Osama. They come illegally to grab what they can and send it home. There's no gratitude or respect . That's not true about all but it is about most. We are really blind about what people actually think about Americans because if we saw the situation as it is we put a stop to this gross violation of our laws.


mike 7 years ago

the tool that you are in need of, is called spell check. while you have valid complaints, you will never be taken seriously until you learn how to utilize your vocabulary in such a way that it commands a certain amount of respect! please take this positive criticism seriously, as I find myself in league with your sentiment.


sneakorocksolid 7 years ago

Sorry Mike, I'm a ditch digger, for real. Thanks for your advise. I will use spell check in the future sometimes I forget.Peace.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 7 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hi! Mike

you right about the spell check it may work but you're wrong for saying that i wouldn't be taken serioulsy. I already got 10,000 hit i've been on hubpages for 8 months. If my work was tastless no one would want to read it.

most people read for content they couldn't care less abut spelling. Most of us don't know how to spell anyhow which is why we used spell check.

thanks for the constructive critisim


me! 7 years ago

i think they should be issued ids! what if they have been in the U.S. their entire life and are in the process of becoming legal! Iis not fair to take away the privledge of driving or having an ID when they are basically American without the rights! Renew their license!!!! The U.S. was bulit on freedom with nothing but immigrants who came here for the freedom!


BudHasherdashery profile image

BudHasherdashery 7 years ago from Metro New York

Legal Immigration, Illegal Immigration...there is a world of difference between the two. Right now we have 7.5 million illegal alien scum (scum, as in a low life criminal element, which illegal aliens are)still working in our economy while over 12 million legal immmigrants and American citizens are out of work.

Right now, we have a Idiot Savant as a president who refuses to implement E VErify (which is over 99 percent effective in identifying those who are not entitled to work in America) because (his words) "implementing E Verify would cause to many illegal aliens to lose their jobs." This same idiot savant raised taxes on cigarettes by over one dollar to fund S-Chip which provides health insurance to some 4.5 Anchor Babies (the children of illegal aliens).

This same president had E Verify delayed again so that some 300,000 jobs paid for with our taxes could go to illegal aliens. Now we have Homeland Security pushing for a new program that would allow ILLEGAL ALIENS to have Drivers Licenses!

HELLO FOLKS! THIS IS AMNESTY BEING FORCED FED TO THE MIDDLE CLASS OF AMERICA ONE DISTASTEFUL BITE AT A TIME, and we need to stand up, take to the streets and tell Obama and the Democrats no. The time has come to send illegal aliens and (in most cases) their bastard children back to their home countries.


wow 7 years ago

BudHasherdashery. you are the dumbest person i have heard of. if you read any of the comments everyone is an immigrant so telling people to go back to their home countries makes no point. Why dont you go back to your home country.


A Texan 7 years ago

Wow, I am a 15th Generation American and 9th Generation Texan, my family ceased having immigrant status long ago! I am a Natural born American and do not believe Illegals should have drivers licenses for many reasons but the most important one is the right to vote. In some states all it takes to register to vote is an ID, and a license is an ID! Why should my vote be discounted by an Illegals vote? It shouldn't!


Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy 7 years ago from Somewhere in the Lone Star State

NO ILLEGALS should have anything to do with this country..But this is why the borders have been opened..To provide them with our jobs...And they are taking our jobs and putting us out in the street to boot...I am so sorry, I am outraged by what is happening...sorry...Illegals have no right in this country....period..The borders all of them should be closed and only Americans who were born here should be allowed to live here...I should be more respectful, but I was born, raised and lived here all my life....no illegals...close the borders....send them all back where they came from ...no matter where it is....I do apologize for being so upset...We are supposed to be respectful....please forgive my outrage!!!

And who the heck is "me" and what is this person doing commenting in here??? ID's??? I have words I will not even utter over your comment "me"


annarae* profile image

annarae* 7 years ago

I do believe they should,

because first of all my parents are immigrants to this country from Italy. My dad has been driving around *without* a license it's sad to see my father like that! And it's actually really sad that people also DON'T understand the fact that all immigrants aren't bad people! It makes me so mad! People come to "America" because they care about their families and where they come from there is A LOT of poverty, i mean seriously who wouldn't care for their family? Unless your as cold blooded as some **idiots** on this message board. But other than that of course immigrants should get their license back!

And also if anyone didn't learn anything in history class,

EVERYONE IS AN IMMIGRANT!!!!!


Joy Blind 7 years ago

I think that anyone taking government funds, whether children are on medicaid, or gets a welfare check is required to work the jobs that illegal immigrants do for the uS, than many more young people will get their education, and there will be a lot less people drawing off you and I who work hard every day.


stevenschenck profile image

stevenschenck 6 years ago from Sacramento California

I was looking for the part where you talk about someone without a license not being able to get insurance for their car - so when they hit your car you are out of luck. I understand the insanity of giving someone a license when they are not here legally - but the reality is that without the license there is no insurance and those of us that have been hit are S.O.L.


Portamenteff profile image

Portamenteff 6 years ago from Western Colorado, USA

The illegals are just a tool of corporate America to keep the lower classes from rising like they have done in the past. They want everyone who is not at the top to stay down. Massive amounts of cheap labor keeps the pay down and profits up. It's the law of supply and demand.


Danny Decay profile image

Danny Decay 6 years ago from Winter Park, Florida

Should illegal immigrants be allowed to possess a drivers license? HELL NO! Leave kindly. And I don't want to hear the crying and bitching about "Well what about when we settled America, WE were the immigrants back then!" ok, whatever you say, but don't forget that there was no prior established governement in this land back then. THANKS!


oldenuf2nobetter 6 years ago

I've worked in construction for years and I don't know all the legal aspects but let me say,just for the record,that some of the best men I've ever known were illegal aliens.And by the way,read your history.President Polk and the United States stole the southwest from Mexico and that's a fact!


Glen G 6 years ago

If you remember me you already know how I feel about your illegals...........


Robert 6 years ago

Why does it even matter if your illegal or not, the main thing is to prove you can actually drive a Vehicle because believe me the worst drivers ive seen so far are actual US Citizens, why because an "Illegal" would not want to be pulled over for the fear of being deported.


ZARTAN 6 years ago

driving licences are for driving. its got nothing to do with citizenship. for those americans, which are most americans, who never travel, a passport is what is used to prove citizenship, not a driving licence. so yes, anyone should be able to get a driving licence.


Michael Shane profile image

Michael Shane 6 years ago from Gadsden, Alabama

I look at it this way! It is the most legitimate way to look at it in my opinion...We should do the same as all other countries when we visit, Temp driving priveleges & insurance required or no driving...To me that is the most logical way! Thanks for sharing this interesting topic!


gz 6 years ago

We are talking about people, let's not forget that! America, was founded from immigrants, and they still continue to be an essential part the country. For those that solely support the deportation of illegal immigrants, then you should probably consider going back to the country of your origin since this is what you want the govenment to do to 13 million illegal immigrants, and if your a 10th generation or something like that like stated above; find out and go back to the country from which your ancestors migrated from.


4urInfo 6 years ago

One of today’s most popular and powerful quotes is credited to Elie Wiesel, the writer, Nobel Peace Prize winner and Holocaust survivor:

"You who are so-called illegal aliens must know that no human being is ‘illegal’. That is a contradiction in terms. Human beings can be beautiful or more beautiful, they can be fat or skinny, they can be right or wrong, but illegal? How can a human being be illegal?"

Coming from a Holocaust survivor who witnessed the worst in humanity, these words are extremely potent. This quote is the rallying cry for those of us who believe that the term “illegal alien,” or referring to human beings as “illegal,” is dangerously dehumanizing.

-http://www.bordercrossinglaw.com/Home.html

Any person who knows how to do their job, and do it well, should not feel intimidated by an "illigal immigrant" to take it away from them. So-called illegal immigrants are living amongst us anyway, why is there, then, fear of [things] to be taken away from AMERICANS? If you have the knowledge and if you are much better (in every sence of the word), than a mediocre illegal immigrants, which I've seen are even called scum in this message board, then do not worry, for shall thou not be in danger. You people talk, talk and talk about illegals, but maybe, and hopefully, one day it'll dawn on you they are people just as you are. The only difference is that they were not born with the same luck, if I may say, as you were. They were not lucky enough to be called 'Americans'. They are not monsters, just dream followers. I can not believe that in this century there can still be so many ignorant people amongst us, some of you, which I come to believe, would have loved to have lived at the times of the Holocaust and/or slavery. Unfortounatly, not I nor my opinions will change peoples point of view, but remember people don't change situations, situations change people, and I hope none of you that comment, think or act in a rude or absurd way, will ever expierence at least a bit of what an ILLEGAL has ever had to experienced for a better life. God Bless Everyone....


jan 6 years ago

if all illgei immigrant deported wat will happend ?

sure all most constation work will go slow and most of the bussiness will go slow .

if govement charge 5000$ fine for all illegal immgrant and give them just work permit it will be gratfull them govermet can get tax in the future remind one thing AMERICA TRUST IN GOD every body is legal in earth


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Coolbreezing

Some comments if you don't mind. THANK YOU

I'm not sure if Arizona issues driver licenses to illegals but I do know that there is a battle going on in Arizona with the Federal Government and the State of Arizona regarding illegal immigration.

On 7/28/10 Judge Susan Bolton released her verdict on AZ SB 1070 law deciding parts of the law in favor of the DOJ and ACLU petitions to stop the enforcement of the law.

The ruling blocks 4 key parts of law

The State of Arizona has appealed Judge Bolton’s decision to the 9TH US Federal Circuit Court of appeals in San Francisco. It was reported that the The 9th circuit court will review the case within 14 days of the appeal date.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

hubbers

Just another perspective of the problem.

It's about right is right and wrong is wrong. It's about equal justice for all and not social justice for all.

We the people should not have any tolerance for our government not enforcing the US immigration laws to the fullest extent of the law. A law without punishment or enforcement is worthless and meaningless.

We are in a deep recession, many (14 million )of our citizens are out of work. So the question is, why are they still coming, risking death in the desert knowing that if caught they will be deported. Deportation and incarceration of the unauthorized aliens are costing the taxpayers huge amounts of time and money.

If one steals from someone, they break the law and are punished and go to jail. When you take from someone that which is not yours to have, you are stealing.

The illegals in our country cost the American taxpayers $300 billion a year in entitlement money, money that is intended for our poor citizens. That’s stealing from our poor and government taxpayers. When it’s costing the taxpayers $billions to guard the border to stop the unauthorized aliens from coming here ,that’s stealing from legal citizen taxpayers.

Many of them are nice hard working people, wanting a better life. Poor unemployed people ( citizens ) also want a better life. It’s time, the vacation is over, time for our government to stop the charade , put legal American citizens first and put the violators in prison. Catch and Release does not WORK

They marched in Phoenix waving Mexican flags and placards ‘’ we have rights’. Groups from California were brought in by the SEIU and AFL-CIO unions to march and protest against the laws of Arizona and the country.

President Barak Obama, AG Holder, and Congress are aiding and abetting breaking of our immigration laws by not enforcing them and by giving aliens the hope of citizenship and amnesty.

Washington and our government are corrupt, we the people need to demand that each and everyone of our elected officials fulfill the oath of the office that they took when they accepted the office given to them by the people. Enough is enough!.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 6 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hi! Jon Ewall

Thanks for your comments

Your view is well respected but as a former alien who became a citizen 15 years ago I know a little bit about immigrants. I noticed that the back bone of your argument lies on tax payer’s money and the cost of illegal immigrants.

Well. There’s a flip side to that story because if we have immigration problem there must be a cause for it.

In every situation where we don't know the true cause of a problem we can’t fix it. The problem is not that illegal immigrants are coming here looking for opportunities but rather which group of our society are attracting that opportunity.

As you know American citizen won’t work for the wages that the illegals are working for and since they not it would seems to me that a demand has been created.

Economic theory teaches us that whenever there is a need for a service opportunity exists. It may not seem as an opportunity for all of us but for those who are less fortunate it’s an advantage.

Now, if it’s an advantage for the illegal it is also an opportunity for those who attract the demand for low wages. The biggest cost of production is labor and therefore if labor can be reduced the chance to maximize profit is possible.

So as I have demonstrated it is a two way street here. The contractors need the illegal immigrants just as the illegal needs them. Although the process may not be in the best interest of the tax payers, the system allows it.

Now let me ask you this ….if millions of jobs can be save by allowing the illegal in this country do you think it’s in the best interest of our government to gives illegal a little leeway to enter the country to help save those jobs?

Now, in regard of boarder security cost and jobs, how many jobs has the illegal created for our law enforcement? You speak as if the law enforcers really want the illegal to stop entering the country at all course. When we all know if that happens they'll be out of a job. IT should be in their interest to protect their jobs.

So to assume that implied that we are not looking at the interest. The interest is jobs security for boarder patrol officers, the illegals are the cause of that interest. And besides the more illegal’s who entered our boarders the more secure our patrol officers feel about their position.

We have to be honest people. Would they have a job had no immigrants attempt to enter the country without authorization?

As you can see, they as to be some sort of lee ways here. IT's like one hand washes the other, the law enforcers needs the illegal to enter the boarder so that they can enforce the law otherwise they be out of a job. And the small entrepreneur feel the same way cause illegal’s to them means profit.

As long as there is interest for self there will be leeway’s to protect that interest. You are right illegals are a problem as long as the economy is sinking but once it rejuvenates the influx of illegals is an opportunity for small businesses to prosper.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Hubcoolbreezing8310

Your comments are interesting as to the past and present of what has occurred in our country. The debate on both sides of the issue of unauthorized aliens, ‘’ we have rights ‘’a sign held by activist in Phoenix, is the breaking of the immigration laws of the land. The illegals ( unauthorized aliens) proclaim that wrong is right and the citizens ( legal citizens )want wrong to be made right.

How many times have you heard from our elected officials ‘’ we are a nation of the rule of law ‘’, does that mean anything. If we ignore the law, sooner or later we will have anarchy.

There is no question that if someone comes to the US without permission, the law has been violated. Today our government is not enforcing the immigration laws to the fullest extent of the laws. Catch and release after the first offence is not what the penalty is for repeat offenders.

The country is in a deep recession and to say that they come for jobs is to be in fairyland. They come because our politicians talk about amnesty and there is no punishment for breaking the laws except for deportation unless a criminal act has been committed. One must wonder if our government stopped allowing them to receive government entitlements, would the unauthorized aliens come. Applying for and receiving government ENTITLEMENTS is stealing. Stealing from one knowingly that your act is a violation is criminal.

There is so much more I would like to write in reply with your hub. I will be considering to write more in my own hub. May I use some of your statements in my hub. Yes or know because you have pointed out some facts and history in your own situation.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 6 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hi! Jon this is a long one but it's interesting.

If you ask me I think you have some excellent points here. What we have in contrary is that we’re looking at the situation with different lens. I have an Auto focus EF mm f/2.0 Lens and you have an ED 600mm f/2.8 they both good camera the only exception is that the 135mm can a more in debt picture...lol. I hope you know I’m kidding Jon; we can also have fun while conveying something as important as immigration laws.

Anyhow allow me to explain what I see with my 135mm lens. Well, before I start I have to admit you raise some important issue but I sincerely think we can link the two arguments and extract the best out of them.

You indicated that our elected officials are quick to say that “we are a nation of the rule of law” as if they really meant it. I think we have an agreement there because to me political officials are like empty vessel. Their main purpose is to direct us to their destination of preference. This is why we must listen to the ideas that they share with us as oppose to their political party.

Second you said and I quote that “Today our government is not enforcing the immigration laws to the fullest extent of the laws”. Ok I agree but remember in my previous reply I mentioned why the government allows this leeway. You said that “The country is in a deep recession and to say that they come for jobs is to be in fairyland” Now, if you look up in my previous reply you’ll noticed that I specifically stated that you are right illegal’s are a problem as long as the economy is sinking but once it rejuvenates the influx of illegal’s is an opportunity for small businesses to prosper.

Yes Jon they are coming here for jobs but the only problem is Americans complains when the economy is doing bad, which shows somewhat of a double standard because when the economy is good allow the illegal to perform the low paying jobs. The small business sees this as an opportunity because business is booming and they don’t have to pay Americans twice as much to do the job of the illegal.

I think you understand where I’m coming from because you sound like a reasonable man – one who much rather to reason things out than to make assumptions – that’s why I’m part of your friend list.

“One must wonder if our government stopped allowing them to receive government entitlements, would the unauthorized aliens come.”

Ok, Jon now I have to admit although you may appear older than I am – I have a little more comprehension as to why immigrants come here. Yes or No Jon? My mother for example was at one time an illegal who is now an American citizen who’s been paying taxes for 40 years and I who came after her at the age of 14 as an alien who became a citizen never stop working for more than a year ever sense i've been here.

Jon neither illegal or aliens come here for entitlements. These are some hard working people you talking about here Jon. I started working at the age of 14 with working paper because I was too young to work. I started passing out flayer until I was old enough to work at McDonalds. And you here talking about “entitlements” what the heck is that.

I know many people especially some Africans and West Indian Immigrants who would rather starve than to collect welfare checks.

You have no idea how proud these people are because if you knew you would not have said what you said. Most of them have more than one profession because when one is not fortunate that one must be flexible.

Collecting welfare checks is not something that is spoken loudly in the West Indian community. Especially those who have the opportunity to do well in their home land.

And you should not forget that some come here for the education, very much like Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. Or Proctor and Gamble owner of P&G for that matter who are both immigrants of Ireland UK.

These are examples that show that immigrants are the founder of economic growth in this country. The very concept of differentiating Immigrants from Americans is an oxymoron within itself for they can’t be Americans if they were never the native of the Americas.

Now, let me take you a little further Jon, since you are a man of reason let’s reason this one out. If anyone from the Europe countries can refer to each other as European why is it that those of us who are the native of the Americas cannot refer to each other as Americans.

Logically speaking if someone was born in Haiti, Jamaica, Cuba or Porto Rico that one by definition is an American for the simple fact that he or she is the native of the western Atmosphere.

IT would make sense right? After all every country that is part of Europe, the people there refer to each other as Europeans. But why is it different for those of us in the western Atmosphere?

Hey! by the way Jon you have my full permission to use any statement of mind as long as you qoute it.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Coolbreezing

LET'S START AGAIN regarding the differences of what's right and what's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right and two rights don't make a wrong. It seems today in our society and in Washington that right is wrong and wrong is right, agree. In 1986 our government passed a law to give illegal immigrants amnesty. My family owned company followed the law even though our competitors were using illegals.To be honest and obey the laws, our company (hard working family )suffered tremendously. The government who made the law did not enforce the law. Today, some 24 years later our government still isn't enforcing the law. Those people in Washington were elected by the people (legal citizens)to serve the people(legal citizens).The thing that disturbs many of our citizens is when they march with signs ( ‘’we are people’’ and’’ we have rights’’ )and display the Mexican flag.

The cost to the taxpayers of some $300 billion a year when many of our citizens are experiencing great hardships is not fair or right in these troubled times.

My experiences with the Hispanics leaves me to know that they are hard working people. The problem is that they are breaking the laws of our country and they don't care because our government is not enforcing the laws.

Americans are aware of the corruption in Washington, have been silent until they have had enough.

How would it be that they were rounded up like the Japanese during WW11 and given a choice to return to their country of origin or be incarcerated ( somewhere).

The constitution says equal justice for all, not social justice for all.

They came here knowingly that they were breaking the law. Our politicians (Hispanic and others ) encouraged them to come and have a better life for their families.

You are an interesting man who has experienced the problem and I respect you and the many who came here legally. But it's time for wrong to be wrong and right to be right. The Arizona law SB 1070 gave them sufficient time to leave for where ever.

Can you top that? I know that you will try.


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 6 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hi! Jon

You said “Can you top that? I know that you will try.” Lol. I’m laughing because I can see that you know a little bit about my character already. That’s good but let us keep in mind that this discussion is not about who is the best debater, it’s about extracting the best ideas from both side to come up with a conclusion that coincide with all Americans and legal aliens agree?

Now, if I have experienced the problem like you said then it’s a good chance that I might have a good idea of what’s causing it. I want to remind you again that the root cause of the problem is not the influx of illegal in this country but rather which members of our society that are attracting that influx. You mentioned that your family owns a company, they obeyed the laws while your competitors don’t, which of course can make your family business harder to compete if the competitor’s total cost of labor is lower.

My personal experience in this instant suggest that what sometime happen is when companies like your family – Not to say that they’re like that – let’s get this clear. But what happen sometimes is that some company refuses to give equal opportunities to equal skills they instead prefer to engage in bi est. and racial profiling of the employee’s credentials which of course causes that employee to settle for lest being that everywhere else he or she goes is judge first base on their racial background rather than their criterion.

This can definitely cause the employer to take advantage of the situation and pay employees base on how much they are willing to settle for instead of their wroth. Black Americans faces that every day, that situation within itself has nothing to do with illegal immigrants - when you are an immigrant it’s even more of a reason for some employers to discriminate.

However though, the flip side of that token produces a domino effect that causes the poor whites income to also diminish in value. If you really think about it if black Americans, legal and illegal are working for less the poor whites income is also going to depreciate in value. The best solution in this case if for them to work together to legalized the illegal so that they too can join the fight for equal pay for equal work to all. But the problem is they are sometime given a coordinator that doesn’t always see the interest of the employees as a whole.

For this matter you are going to have a demand for cheap labor which will always attract the illegal in our country. So Jon to fight the result of the problem is not the solution, the cause is the reduction of labor cost at any course for the advantage of maximizing profit.

And yes! You are absolutely right Jon Some Americans are aware of corruptions in Washington DC but remember wherever there are opportunities they will be corruptions for we are functioning under a system of currency that is depreciating in value. Therefore, wherever there is a lack of there will be a loss of.

Now, let us talk about this statement “The constitution says equal justice for all, not social justice for all.” If you are going to say something like that to me Jon you have yet to know a little bit more about me. I analyzed everything it doesn’t matter if it was President Lincoln who said it. Every statement must follow the rules of logic regardless of one’s titles or position in life. Now, follow the Robert hole and I’ll show you how deep it goes.

Wikipedia described social justice as such “generally refers to the idea of creating an egalitarian society or institution that is based on the principles of equality and solidarity, that understands and values human rights, and that recognizes the dignity of every human being”.

Therefore right? We have to have a therefore to know the conclusions of things. So therefore, if social justice is not the same as equal justice why then does it allows egalitarianism and equality as two main adjectives which correlate with equal justice. IT would appear to me that no one can achieve equal justice without going through social justice first. If you remove the foundation then whatever else that precede it doesn’t stand.

Jon it is always my please to respond to your comments, and let me remind you again this conversation is not about I’m right you wrong, it’s about justifying legality in the best reasonable way that comfort society as a whole. OneLove.


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Coolbreezing

The foundation of our Government is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We are a Nation of the Rule of Law, without the law there is injustice, terrorism and anarchy.

This is what America is all about and our Democrat and Republican Elected Officials take an oath to defend it. To do otherwise is to break the law. We have a Corrupt Congress and a President who is in violation of not enforcing the law. Who will defend us against law breakers?

Today the Senate passed a bill to spend $600 MILLION MORE to defend the border. The bill was passed by a voice vote meaning that a row call of the vote was NOT recorded.

That’s not transparent and open government that President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid promised the American people if elected.

In 1986 Congress passed an amendment to the immigration law. That law was passed by a voice too, we now know that the law Don't Work simply because the government is not enforcing the law.

Think about all the $billions, the taxpayers( you and I) are spending to correct the problems thru no fault of our own. The unauthorized aliens and supporters march with signs that read ''racism'', '' we have rights'','' we are people '' throwing bottles at the police and displaying Mexican flags in our cities and towns in our country.

Try crossing the border in Russia, China and any other country without authorization. Foreigners go to jail for a long time. If one values their life, they know that the government will enforce the laws.

Equal justice for all, justice must be served to preserve the laws of our country.

Have a good day, my brother


Coolbreezing profile image

Coolbreezing 6 years ago from New York, New York Author

Hi! Jon

"Today the Senate passed a bill to spend $600 MILLION MORE to defend the border. The bill was passed by a voice vote meaning that a row call of the vote was NOT recorded."

Thanks for the info - I will be sure to look it up.

Good bye Until next time, One


JON EWALL profile image

JON EWALL 6 years ago from usa

Coolbreezing

I called my representative to express my wrath as to why a roll call vote was not taken,they couldn't answer the question.

We the people need to be alert to how they operate. is this the '' open and transparent government'' , we were promised?


NoAmnesty 5 years ago

Illegal immigrants should not be allowed to have drivers licenses (or collect medicaid, or have their children educated for free, or get free medical care). Driving is a privilege, not a right. Even if it were a right it should be reserved for American citizens and those here legally. In a perfect world, if an illegal attempted to get a driver's license, he would be turned over to INS and deported and if he were stopped for a driving infraction he would also be turned over to INS and deported.


reed3915 profile image

reed3915 5 years ago from California

Wow, I cannot believe some of you all and your comments and/or "facts". No DL unless you are legal, same with citizens, if we lose license under suspension for breaking a law or failure to pay fines, we have to wait for suspension lifted. So we can't drive until then. Get my point "Broke a Law"? You broke into this country, you CANNOT HAVE OUR BENEFITS & PRIVILEGES!

To ANNRAE - "WE" are not "all Immigrants" I and many generations of my family were born here, came over with Penn and the Mayflower and also my native ancestry birthright, other generations not born here yes they were Immigrants but it does not make me one. Furthermore, those ancestors came legally thru the proper ports and registered, were checked over for diseases, worked off the cost of passage, worked harder than you will ever have to and along with all those other Legal Aliens built what once was a The Greatest Nation on the Planet, and you all are dying to come here and get what you can, greedy and selfish.

Then there is that fellow who declared we stole the southwest from Mexico, you need some serious truth history, this country paid Mexico's pres for the southwest and he took off with the money. Add that to the continuing payments taken by all the illegals crimes they commit or their babies born in our hospitals, No Money, Meester Hospital Ob/GYN. I live near the border and I know all about the cost and the benefits all these illegals enjoy. I know about the racial bias against Americans white/black/brown whatever from these Illegals. I know about the crimes they commit and the destruction they leave when they are caught or move on or are killed. Oh lest I forget another poster said "most of the United States belonged to Mexico" you need to just keep your fingers in your pockets honey cause you have no clue what you talking about! Lastly, I wish people would stop saying they work jobs we don't want, that is BS, also they work for less pay, where, who, I have known hundreds of illegals that worked same as you or I, they just borrow SS. or a relatives ID, and they never file Taxes, send all money after paying rent for crowded conditions back to Mexico via B of A as set up by the hispanic head of the US Tresury check your money her name is on it and that was her baby to make it easier for Illegals to send money home. What a Country! As for not work those low jobs I have, I will, and I do, chicken houses, the fields, I always earn my way. It is telling that certain counties should have higher unemployment numbers but shockingly they don't and that is because illegals can't collect those benefits yet!


code33 5 years ago

In my opinion illegals could do what they wanted to do as long as they do everything to get everything that they need to be a U.S. citizen.


shedjo 5 years ago

i dont like the way mexicans think they can do what they want in the US....


ben34 5 years ago

its like slavery all over again!!!!


ben34 5 years ago

America would not run if it werent for the mexicans and germans!


ben34 5 years ago

Just give us drivers license it would make everything easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


francisid 5 years ago

i was about to ask if this article was some kind of a joke,then i realized it isn't.

what kind of mentality is that for them to think of issuing a license to an illegal immigrant?

if that would be the case,they shouldn't be called illegal anymore.

now,im really wondering why everything done illegally is promised with a more blessed fruit compared to things done by following strictly the rules. makes you wanna be illegal,huh?


nd 5 years ago

licence or no license im driving regardless


Will 5 years ago

i have a good one, i used to have a driver license, i was also a green card holder for 12 yrs, anyway, i got deported for a drug possession charge and banned me for life to ever returning legally, im thinking about going back of course as illegaly but since i had a license is it possible to renew a driver's license without getting caught?


francisid 5 years ago

goodluck America.the future of these illegal immigrants rest in your hands.


pebbles 4 years ago

HONESTLY. .. I'm sick of hearing people saying that all illegal. Aliens are Mexicans..noo illegal. Aliens are hations Mexicans Germans Columbians Brazilians etc soon why always refer a illegal as a effing Mexican ..you know its funny hoW SOME ASO CALLED AMERICANS DONT EVEN KNOW THE NATIONAL ANTHEM &SOME ILLEGALS KNOW IT..THOSE THAT BEEN HERE FOR MANY YEARS...

THAT BEING SAID IM ALL FOR ILLEGALS GETTING DL & ANYTHING ELSE...THOSE WOMEN & MEN CONE TO. THE US FOR A BETTER LIFE & TO WORK HARD . HAVE. YALL EVER BOTHERED TO PUT YALL SELF IN DARE SHOES & SEE HOW IT REALLU ISS TO BE A ILLEGAL. WE ARE REALLY LUCKY TO HAVE WHAT THEY WANT & ALOT OF US. TAKE THAT FOR GRANTED..


Girl 4 years ago

that is not fair people come here for a better life and if they cant be legal, the only choice for them is to be illegal. So i think they should get driver's license and sometimes the illegal parent takes their child to the US illegally too and its not the child's fault. and than they cant have a driver's license or a job because of that. so they should expect us not to drive? No i don't think so. So they should provide driver's license for illegal immigrants.


JOSE 4 years ago

should illegal get drivers license ?? hell no.they should be deported


mago 4 years ago

I love to hear our politicians talk about the "Dream Act" and one of the requirements would be that the illegals would learn english etc. That is such a joke. Our country is so busy making it easy for them to navigate in this country without learning english. Look around, everything is printed in english and spanish. We have biligual programs in our schools and when looking for job you better speak spanish because many of the requirements state that they prefer biligual. I saw a job posting for a janitor of which you had to speak spanish. I do not understand our politicians at all. I also see the Mexican flags when they protest. What a joke on us !!!!!. And will someone please tell me what other country will allow you to become an automatic citizen when your mother is illegal? This is enough to make me want to vote republican.


lucky 4 years ago

why not make them legal and invite more illegal to come here i love being illegal ha ha


Jeni4 4 years ago

Its funny how they talk about Mexicans dont hate Mexicans are hardworkers nt like other ppl askin for money


Claudia Pineda 4 years ago

I very. Much think that the Latinos should be abe to get a drives license. Without any problem. It states that everyone is free and has the right to serport there family. And not to be torn apart.


CumBuinna 3 years ago

When i utilized to receive high on existence although of late I have piled up a new opposition.


hiworld03 2 years ago

yeah


MineSodoNon 13 months ago

I must say that this post is the most relevant article I’ve ever read and saw. It’s a great help to everyone who is looking for this information.

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