Why Did It Take So Long to Find Bin Laden?

4th May 2011

I wrote some time back first part of an article A New Dark age. I have to still write second part. But events of last few weeks indeed give a new perspective to all these affairs. I will rather wait a little to get back to it. Though I still feel it may be needed. I did not do much in hub pages during this time. Partly because of my traveling. I am still in USA/Canada. Plan to be here for a few months. Meanwhile I wrote a comment in a discussion in NY Times on "Why Did It Take So Long to Find Bin Laden?". I wrote a comment in one of the articles in this discussion. Let me share it with you.

My comment in NY Times

I live in Mumbai but often visit USA and USA is like second home country for me. I very regularly see news papers from USA, India and Pakistan. Looking at Pakistani news papers, often I am amazed that in such a large country, with so many good writers and analysts, except for a tiny number of writers, practically no one wants to see the reality that their army top and feudal rulers are using religion, terrorism and generating of passions against USA, India etc. just as a tool to keep their rule intact and milking away all the money to their own bank accounts etc.
They blame every one Americans, Indians, Europeans but not their own rulers (partly because they are afraid of them too). They rarely in any discussion talk about the real cause, which is themselves (for accepting to become tools at the hands of their rulers) and their rulers. One such example is that they always blame USA for supporting rise of terrorist organizations in their country during Russian occupation of Afghanistan etc. but rarely point at real cause that they and their rulers allowed this rise themselves and were more enthusiastic than USA to allow this rise and use it against India and Afghanistan later.
But over the years I find that even in countries like India or USA where there is a complete freedom to discuss any issue, often either right people do not get opportunity to participate in public debates or just debates are sort of directed by anchors and editors to take path they like and not what the actual situation is. As a result you do not see it reflecting general sentiment. Often it does not even discuss obvious answers to a problem, very clearly visible and which is in mind of almost every one.
For example in the discussions here I am amazed that in all discussions and comments, all possible causes of delay in finding Osama and punishing him are discussed but I do not see real cause from American view point, at all reflected.

There is very little doubt that at least some people in ruling class and army top in Pakistan (most likely even rulers of countries like Saudi Arabia) are helping and financing Osama and other similar terrorists. So obviously some of them also helped in his hiding. That, no doubt is the main cause of delay. It is not just with Osama, more or less the same mechanism is being used to hide other criminals and terrorists in Pakistan. For example smuggler Dawood Ibrahim, declared by USA as an international terrorist, who has caused perhaps even more deaths and destruction in India, lives in a big mansion in Karachi, according to accounts by many journalists from Pakistan and India. But Pakistani rulers deny even its existence. Indian government ministers, secretaries and security agencies are so incompetent that they are unable to track him and raise questions about him properly with Pakistani rulers.

USA ruling class elected and other officers are surely not so incompetent. They have enough control over ruling classes in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia etc. to force a change in attitudes in these countries. Recent awakenings in Arab countries and also sentiments visible in Pakistan do show that majority in these countries does not support this attitude of their rulers. So USA government is in a position to force out a change. But why it is unable to do that?
Problem lies with the policies USA has been following for last several years. As a result it has been unable to stop financing and supporting these rulers and army top in Pakistan Saudi Arabia etc. For last several years rulers in USA seem to be fond of putting their country in quagmire situations, where they are fighting a war (or some cause) from both sides. For example in Af-Pak sector, it has compulsions to continue to support and finance these very rulers and army top (otherwise it may find itself unable to send food and stuff to its soldiers or earlier it had compulsions to bring down Russians) thus indirectly it helps in financing the terrorists and at the same time it sends its own soldiers to fight the same terrorists who are being financed by money starting from USA government. It tries to stop nuclear or missile proliferation but at the same time it puts all efforts to hide proliferation by Pakistan and by China as a bargain for supporting its cause. It sees the problem China is creating by manipulating its foreign exchange but it also supports Chinese regime to support the same because of pressure from some of its corporate sectors.
While there is no doubt that the main cause of delay in catching Osama is rulers and army top in Pakistan and some Arab rulers etc., the main cause includes USA getting into such quagmires and supporting and financing activities of these rulers. But I see very little discussion about these aspects in this whole discussion in NY Times

After-shots:

1. It seems for several years many in Pakistan did know that Bin Laden was in Pakistani army-ISI control and living in a garrison city.

After writing this comment, I read many articles, some of them I give links below. One of them by Farhat Taj, a Pakistani research scholar in Oslo (see links 11 below), Norway shows clearly that she had quite clear idea even in 2007 that Bin Laden is in some sort of custody of Army-ISI in Pakistan. She was even told that he is living in some garrison city. in Pakistan. There was a big turmoil in Pakistan in 2008-9 about naming of Khyber-Pakhunistan province. She was told that riots, during that time, created in Hazara part of province (Abbottabad, where Bin Laden was captured and killed, would have been capital of Hazara part) were work of Pakistani intelligence agencies because they had to hide Bin Laden's hide-out etc.

I wonder some thing which a research scholar can find out easily why CIA and all the American might could not find out. Or perhaps some in USA agencies also may have known but had interest just like Pakistani agencies in not getting it disclosed. These are the questions which puzzle every one. While Pakistan has to change whole its idea and style of ruling by army top with such mentality, one wonders whether such aspects will be discussed at all in USA. Will some heads role in USA also? These are the question Michael Moore also asks (see links 11 below)

2. An account of Life in Pakistan after the kiling in Abbotabad: American General Petraeus had tipped off Pakistani General Kayani about imminent raid?

A news article in UK news paper Daily Mirror (see links 4 below) draws scenes of life and views in Pakistan and in the garrison town of Abbotabad. It feels you with a very sad feeling indeed. Here are some of excerpts from the article.

a. A survey found two-thirds of people in Pakistan refuse to accept Bin Laden’s death, despite confirmation by Al Qaeda. Even the country’s most revered lawyer told me ‘the ghost of Osama has survived his execution’ given the lack of concrete evidence, storing up problems for the future.'

b. Pakistan has also become the world’s fifth-biggest nuclear power – bigger than Britain or France.

c. Bin Laden’s compound was found among cabbage fields in a new residential area on the edge of the military sector. A mosque is being built nearby, while graffiti proclaiming ‘Osama Town’ and ‘Osama is a martyr’ has been hastily painted over. Residents said the two sides of the town rarely mixed.

d. Even at the Red Mosque, scene of vicious gun battles four years ago, the hotheads were friendly after Friday prayers as they ranted about Osama and the need for vengeance.

‘He was a good Muslim who we will pray for. He is still alive in our hearts,’ said a 20-year-old, himself called Osama, before shaking hands politely at the end of our discussion.

There were barely 200 of them, while foreign reporters milled around looking for incendiary quotes. I watched as a BBC news crew carefully repositioned one young firebrand to have bearded zealots behind him to ensure the usual images of Pakistan were presented to the world.

Cut out of the picture were two teenagers laughing and nudging each other at their friend’s antics for the camera.

e. There were three high-profile US military visits in seven days at the end of last month, culminating with the arrival of General David Petraeus, the next CIA chief.

Petraeus and Kayani met at a heavily guarded airbase. Afterwards, the US embassy underlined the pair’s close personal rapport. This was just seven days before Bin Laden’s killing.

Sources say Petraeus tipped off the Pakistani military leader about the imminent raid and insist Kayani kept the information to himself. This explains the lack of reaction to a military incursion so far into Pakistani territory, since Kayani would have had to sanction any response.

some references

1. Discussion in NY Times

Why Did It Take So Long to Find Bin Laden?

2. An article by Spengler (David Goldman )-one of the best analysis on this incident and also an equally interesting assessment of what went wrong with USA policies by Chan Akya

Osama a casualty of the Arab revolt

US spins web of self-deceit

3. An article in a Pakistan news paper about what happened in

Abbottabad. The article and comments show all attitudes in Pakistan

The Operation: What exactly happened in Abbottabad

by Qaiser Butt

4. A news item about protest against Bin laden Killing in Abbotabad in a Pakistani news paper. protests in what Daily Mail of UK calls London-istan

Lawyers denounce Bin Laden Killing

Protests in what Daily Mail of UK calls London-istan

This just in from London-istan: Violent clashes outside U.S. Embassy after hundreds of UK Muslims stage mock funeral for 'murdered' Bin Laden

troubling aftermath of Bin Laden killing

A news article in Daily Mirror on life in Pakistan and Abbotabad after the killing

I saw BBC news crew move one firebrand so he'd have bearded zealots behind him: IAN BIRRELL on troubling aftermath of Bin Laden killing


5. Analysis on Bin Laden Killing in Abbotabad by Pakistani columnist Nadeem Paracha. He must be among best analysts from Pakistan

Not my faith, really

Gotcha

Myths and monsters


6. An article published by Reuters tracing history of ISI -CIA relationships, problems and terror related adventurism by Pakistani rulers and army top

Special report: Why the U.S. mistrusts Pakistan's spy agency

7. A news item in a Pakistani news paper implying finding of Osama could be result of internal rifts in his organization. May be these news items are false pretensions, still worth looking at all possibilities and then deleting useless ones.

Internal rift led to Osama killing: Saudi paper

An interesting article by Ahmad Ali Khalid on how badly people from South Asia are treated in Saudi Arabia and how Saudi is teaching its citizens and others (for example in Pakistan) to hate all who are not Sunni Muslims.

A dangerous Saudi affair


8. Three articles by Pakistani expert Syed Saleem Shahzad describing type of people with whom USA and NATO are perhaps trying to negotiate in the name of compromise with Taliban and an article by Shahid Javed Burki from Pakistan

Taliban and al-Qaeda: Friends in arms

Kicking around in South Waziristan

Bin Laden and the Afghan Endgame

9. An account of this whole incident, claims by Americans, counterclaims by Pakistan their starting of verbal game, gives you a feeling of this murky world of terrorists, spies of ISI and their verbal duels with CIA and collaborations etc. - by a reporter of a UK news paper Daily Mail. Though tone is a little unreasonably strong anti-American but with a lot of wits (wit, one should expect any way in some thing coming from UK)

Tug of war over the young bride who tried to save Bin Laden as Pakistan refuses to hand her over to the U.S.

10. If you want to go through the pain and dilemma of people of Pakistan on the role of their army in this whole affair, views of average mass away from feudal rulers and army - go through this article by Cyril Almeida. Very pessimistic assessment full of agony of an average citizen but quite close to reality. As he says every body in Pakistan knows (also perhaps in India and USA but every one wants to escape from reality). s\Some more articles with similar observations by Pakistani writers Dr. Mohammad Taqui, Ayaz Amir and Shahid Saeed, Ardeshir Cowasjee and Kamia Hyat.

The emperors’ clothes

The hornet is dead, near the nest

Mother of all embarrassments

Grab the reins of power

Have we really seen the enemy?

Could the Taliban win?

Another interesting article by Pakistani writer Murtaza Rizvi with current assessments of problems in Pakistan and a change of attitude among rulers needed

Look East for strategic depth.html


11. Article by Farhat Taj, a Pakistani research Scholar in Norway. She had clear information even in 2007 that Bin Laden was in Pakistani army-ISI custody.

After Bin Laden: a reflection

An interesting interview by Michele Moore. Questions he raises, almost all in USA, India or any democratic country must be wondering about. It does not matter which party is in power, those who are in the ruling circles try to evade them. Text was republished in Times of India.

We were giving Pak aid to find bin Laden, they didn't want the show to close: Michael Moore

Another reaction from Dick Cavet to talks and discussions which go on TV and main stream media and press and how people in USA feel about Pakistani adventures. Almost all in USA and many other countries must be feeling the same, but press, media and politicians do not feel like seeing reality and act on it, they have to be politically correct. Some comments like the number 1 in the same article are also interesting

The Week That Was

An exceptional analysis by the American security expert Bruce Riedel. It leaves very little doubt that ISI and Pakistani Army top guys may have been involved in hiding Bin Laden and terrorist attacks in Mumbai in 2008

The Battle for Pakistan

Pakistani military's use of extremists to target India has backfired


An article by David Ignatius of Washington Post. The conclusion of title seems to be uniform opinion of all in American administration.

Pakistan won’t break ties to terrorists

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Comments 22 comments

diogenes profile image

diogenes 5 years ago from UK and Mexico

These friggin' autocracies play the poor old USA like a fat fish. It's the same in Mexico with the drug war. In Pakistan they pretend to be 100% behind the US effort to quell Al Quaida just to keep getting the billions of free aid. Then - out of fear and religious beliefs - they play the Moslem card and do things like hide and support Bin Ladin. It's all a vast and sad game by all parties...Bob


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi! Bob

Thanks a lot for the comment. Yes I quite agree. It is in fact a bit worrying. A country like USA has enough economic and armed might and powers to not to get its main policies affected by what autocracies in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China or drug lords in Mexico do. USA politicians and executives plan policies to manipulate them. But it seems to be getting equally other way around. They are getting more and more manipulated by them and often willingly, also some times at the expense of allies and friends of USA. Now it seems they are ready to get even manipulated by likes of Taliban!


Spirit Whisperer profile image

Spirit Whisperer 5 years ago from Isle of Man

I worked for a Japanese electronics company for a few years when I lived there and Pakistan was one of the territories I was responsible for. It was probably the most corrupt country to deal with. They wanted bribes for everything and regularly the big shots came to Tokyo to be wined and dined and they insisted on shopping sprees all paid for by the Japanese otherwise they would not do business. As soon as they arrived in Tokyo they wanted women to be supplied it was awful the way these so called Moslems behaved. If only their wives and families knew. I like your hub and you speak the truth. Thank you.


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Yes it is indeed worrying. Many from Pakistan and some Muslims from other countries behave in this strange way. Though place where I live in Mumbai, there are many shops owned by Muslims and taxis are mostly run by them. Most of these people are just like any body else, worrying about their own sale, trying to give good service, worrying about their children's education etc. Many of them are very rich also.

I think this attitude has more in style of their upbringing. In Pakistan, it seems right from beginning in all schools they are taught extremely negatively about every thing else except Muslims ideas, often even Muslim may mean only some particular sect (specially negative includes Indian and Western life style, thinking, people etc.). Many articles from Pakistani writers linked above also say exactly this.

To some extent this attitude was there in Pakistan right from beginning in 1947- even a few years before while struggle for Independence in India was going on. But it has increased enormously since 80's.

Taking seriously sermons of uneducated preachers every Friday is another explosive (such preachers are mainly interested in attracting more crowd so that they can earn more or get money from feudal rulers or army top from Pakistan Saudi Arabia etc. - who use spread of extreme attitude via them as a tool to keep their hold on power and to get rich by investing in economically better of countries. Are such tricks not being used by them even in countries like India or UK?)

In general many Muslims and specially from Pakistan etc. have attitude always to bring in religion and generate a false sentiment, as if they are being discriminated to get their unreasonable and often extreme demands accepted. Many so called liberals (how a person supporting an extreme unreasonable attitude can be called liberal? but that is how they are identified) in countries like India, UK, USA willingly allow themselves to be used as a tool by these extremists, that is also one of the main reason that such extremists from Muslims get away with almost every thing like support for terrorism, violence, anti-woman attitude, sex money etc. These are not liberals who form majority in countries like UK, USA or India (I think in all these countries it does not matter which party people support over all attitude of most is quite liberal). These "so called liberal class" (in India term pseudo-secular is used to describe them) mainly consists of politicians of this type who have an eye on votes of Muslims (average population from majority is equally divided between two parties in most places in India, USA, UK so they find that quick way of winning election is to create extreme attitudes among Muslims and often even average Muslims happily allow it) or anchors from media and press - who worry about TRP ratings (look at one of the news item in Daily Mail link - how BBC wanted a person with a beard in picture) or corrupt corporate who allow themselves to be used as a tool to make money via this attitude and in these countries.

Most of this any way can be stopped, at least in countries like USA, UK, India, Japan etc. if this kind of pseudo-secularism is stopped. But law and order machinery, politicians, media and press, corporate do not seem to be ready for it. After all, even in these countries, we are now becoming used to seeing a Muslim preacher preaching and supporting killing of others, covering of face of a woman with burqua or an anchor showing and justifying a terrorist act or corruption, bribing, rapes etc. in the name of freedom of religion or expression. Should one allow such expressions even in blogs? Can they not be stopped?

But are we doing some thing about it. We seem to be moving in direction of helplessness in the society. Army top feudal rulers in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. used these extreme deformities as tool in their countries but now rulers in our countries are also allowing these feudal rulers to use same tools in our society also. Looking at these aspects in an earlier article I wrote about dark ages and wondered that are we moving in that direction?


OpinionDuck profile image

OpinionDuck 5 years ago

That might account for why OBL wasn't found since 2005, but what about the years before that, and even before 911?


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Thanks for the visit OpinionDuck. How does the time matter? Bin Laden was just an image. Game was being played by those who made this image and later some of them started fighting it. Is it not true that the main players army top and feudal lords in Pakistan, those in Saudi Arabia and spy agencies and rulers (it does not matter they go on changing) in USA, all are playing double game. There seems to be no intention by any one of them to leave this muddy and murky style, even though with each such jolt, each of them looks weaker and more helpless. Rather than past I worry about future!


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

Nicely done soumyasrajan. Well - everybody hates something. Some people hate tainted meat (I'm veggie). Some people cannot tolerate snakes, spiders, etc.

Well - I HATE THE CIA! When can we believe ONE WORD from MURDER INCORPORATED? Cannot happen with this Micky Dee! I hate the CIA. But I HATE every secret society and when I see one - I know there is MISCHIEF and NOBODY does MISCHIEF like the CIA.

How convenient - to bury Bin Laden at sea! How utterly sadly convenient!

Make no mistake - if Osama bin Bush had been buried at sea - HIS HEAD WOULD BE IN THE SKULL $ BONES clubhouse with Geronimos' and Zapata's. And how a nation could continuously vote for the CRAZIES who will NOT deny that Geronimo's head is kept there is disgusting.

Geronimo's descendants sued for the return a few years ago. But a country that SWEARS TO

GOD SHOULD KICK EVERY LAWYER FROM HARVARD and YALE out of America! Vote for these pigs? I don't think soi. They cannot run a courtroom - NEVER have.

And- until America CURES the injustice system that ruins more lives than ANY war America has been involved in - there will be no "America" for most Americans. God bless.


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi Micky

Interesting comments! Though I am not sure hate is a right expression to be used. I feel some times this word "hate" is used a little too much in USA and it affects over all thinking - sort of moves it to not so much in right direction. Specially a person like you, I doubt really hates any one. You are just saying it.

Just take the example of Geronimo and as you mention his skull being in that strange association Skull and Bones. According to gossips it may be controlling CIA. Do you really think things can be so simplistic in that political world of influential ones. Should there not be hundreds of such organizations trying to control?

Let us look at Geronimo. His whole family was killed one day he found out. He fought many wars after that. But did he really hate people of that time who were involved in killings of his tribe? I am not so sure. A person like him with so much knowledge and bravery if he hated them, do you think he would have surrendered?

Even in his surrender deal it seems he was cheated but you do not see much hate in his behavior even afterwords. He learnt a lot about Western ideas also.

I find his earlier life quite interesting. According to one account he could see very far distance and future events (like it is reported that he saw sitting in a cafe miles away that his base camp has been attacked and that some body will tell him this, when he tries to return back next day). Such skills it seems some people do have. The art of learning such skills is practically lost. These ideas do not match with our basic techniques used to analyze any event (scientific style of today). But it will be quite unscientific to discard them as not possible just because of that. It will be much more interesting to find out more about his such skills and how they were learnt and developed in those days.

Hating CIA or Bones and Skull types does not really help much, infact adds to difficulties we face in today's society. Problem with this hating is where do you stop. Why for example only stop at CIA or associations of rich lawyers, Pakistani agency ISI, army is much directly involved in many killings and a lot of destruction today. So are many others. Just start adding to your list and very soon it will become practically infinite.

I feel rather than hating it may be more interesting to accept world as it is with all its complexities and defects. Trying to reform what ever little one can rather than feeling of destroying or feeling of hate may be better idea. This is not just my feeling (also of ancient guys - remember my article "truth- what it is"?), it is also yours. After all you always talk about golden rule.


athulnair profile image

athulnair 5 years ago from India

Hi,

great article.

Everyone knows who was hiding Osama, even the US knew about it. One of the reason they kept quiet was, they just want to continue the war in Afghanistan, so that their weapon industries will thrive. The only passage to Afghanistan is via Pakistan. So the US will support Pakistan.

Again it is a cycle, the US will provide huge military aid, in turn Pakistan will by equipments from the US. So the people who rule will also get their shares.

Pakistan army is one of the army which never won not even a single war in its history. They are least coordinated, but they run business, resorts, hotels etc which no other army in the world may do.


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi! athul

Thanks a lot for the visit. Yes American administration indeed seem to be lost in such quagmires. Though quite understandable phenomena, it looks like some decision makers in USA just enjoy USA being kept lost in such quagmires. What must be the reason. Corruption is one possible explanation.


smithroyal78 profile image

smithroyal78 5 years ago

Wonderful and well detailed article. As rightly mentioned countries shall not bargain money,power,felicities,favors..... to take action on terrorists.This people are not willing to understand the value of life and like killing in innocents.The same happened here in India at Mumbai and why do you guys don't come and fight straight with governments ?


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi! smithroyal

Thanks for your comment. Quite agree with you. We have to fight with attitudes of political parties in India currently running the government. The ruling party in India just now Congress and its supporters are very feudal and communal - almost supporting terrorists with their very weak attitudes towards terrorism spread mainly by army top etc. from Pakistan.


smithroyal78 profile image

smithroyal78 5 years ago

True.The man who was awarded death punishment for terrorist activities afzal guru is chilling in the jail from long years and mercy petition is in pending with the Gov.Just to hold the votes of minority(Don't understand how this is linked with votes;who likes a terrorist,blasts and kills) is postponing it and supreme court has to intervene.

This people are making democracy as a joke.


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi! smithroyal

I agree with you. How can this be linked to votes. Actually Supreme court has ruled two times and over ruled all petitions. Still government is just dilly delaying by using a false excuse that mercy petition is waiting with president. It does not mean any thing. President is supposed to recommend what ever government recommends. So essentially it is the government which is not acting- really speaking it is not even the government, since all actions of prime minister show that he does not do any thing without consent of Congress president. So virtually with all checks of democracy we are stuck in a feudal system (in Center as well as many states) where one person or family running the party in a feudal manner has all the powers.

I think it is this situation which requires a change. Actions should be taken by election commission and supreme court. For example they should declare that parties have to function in similar democratic traditions as the country. A person can not be president of the party for more than 8 -10 years (BJP is one of few parties which follows such restrictions, communists also have some mechanism but others have practically nothing) and election commissions can force parties to have elections regularly and have proper constitution and follow it. All this can be done under present constitutional mechanisms only. Look at USA how slowly they must have evolved system of primary elections. We do not need that complicated system, our system is much less centralized. But I have rarely seen even so called intellectuals or constitutional experts arguing for such measures.


MG Singh profile image

MG Singh 5 years ago from Singapore

hello friend, Well written post, but the USA itself dug its grave by an implicit backing of Pakistan. What you sow , so you reap and the seeds from the US support to Pakistan and the Islamic militants in Afghanistan have sprouted now. The killing of Laden years after the event is just sour grapes and has little meaning now.


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Hi! Singh

Thanks for the visit and comment. I quite agree with you, I think most people in India Europe, USA will also agree with you. Even after understanding that by supporting army top and feudal lords in Pakistan they have now created a uncontrolled monster, and they are in a quagmire situation, they seem to be unable to put their act together and try to get out of this quagmire. I feel one main reason must be corruption generated over the years in American system, out of financial and arm support etc. they provide to Pakistan. That has become powerful enough to not easily allow themselves getting out of it.

But why just talk about USA, is our country any different. We seem to be in much deeper quagmire with the grace of our ruling parties, mainly Congress. In our country not many even talk about it.We are not ready to take even simple measures like putting some control on terror money going to Pakistan and reaching people in our country. USA at least tries that.


MG Singh profile image

MG Singh 4 years ago from Singapore

One of the best hubs on Pakistan and terrorism. I wonder if the Indian leadership should be sent this hub so that they can at least enact a anti terror law in India and not continue in the foolish hope that Pakistan will be reasonable.


soumyasrajan 4 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Thanks a lot MG for appreciation. Yes how to wake up India government agencies is indeed the big puzzle. Will they ever. My hope is more on younger generation, may be some more realistic people better managers get elected to our parliaments and assemblies and political parties are forced by election commissions and courts to get rid of feudal style of management by one family or person (these families just now behave as if they own the party in some of these type of parties).


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 4 years ago

This is a lot to digest but I come away wondering how much the government manipulates laws to get what they want. The government is supposed to be a servant to the people as you stated above but I don't believe the present day politicians would agree. Great hub with thought provoking details.


soumyasrajan 4 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Thanks a lot teaches12345 for the visit! Yes I also feel some politicians along with some media-press top people do feel that they are the ruling class. Actually it is time I think democratic countries start looking back at what they are doing.

What exactly democracy should mean? I think one aspect which is never talked about as important ingredient but that has been the main pillar of whole edifice of democracy is the maintenance of a minimal life style for family of every working person. In USA and Western Europe this aspect minimal level was reached to quite a bit extent, a few years after world war and then was maintained as an unwritten code. All secotrs played role in that part. Government, large corporate, media, universities etc. There was a socialism while all the countries who called themselves socialist (communists blocks) or even democracies like India (which had socialism as a slogan but no sector politicians, rulers, corporate sector had anytime intention of actually providing it) never had this minimal level.

This balance has been lost in last few years. That should really be a measure of democracy (a minimal life style includes not just salaries but all infra structure in the cities, freedom to express, proper law and order, safety and many other things). Now while no one talks about this aspect people are making democratic other ideas just as slogans - elections, parties, this or that. In India there is an ancient saying "bhukhe pet bhajan hoye na goapala (with empty stomach one can not concentrate on payer to all mighty)".

With this main pillar missing people are feeling insecure. They are worried about their long term future. They are worried about personal security with terrorism spreading, but rulers, politicians, corporate are lost in getting in and out quagmires I described or are forced to be lost in them. It seems they do not mind using even their soldiers and average person as pawn in their games, thinking about culture of a minimal life style now it seems does not even occur to them.


sheilanewton profile image

sheilanewton 4 years ago from North Shields, UK

One of your commenters says he hates the CIA. Me too! That just about sums it up for me.

I read every word with interest. And learned a lot as well. Thank you.


soumyasrajan 4 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA Author

Thanks a lot for your visit sheilanewton. I think now in all democratic countries people are worried what kind of games our politicians, administrators, spies (one can include even some professional journalists from main stream media and press) play.

Actually more worrying is that now it seems some of the decisions are forced by corruption among them, it does not matter who or which parties rules.

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