Christians' Reactions to Homosexuals

What Makes a Person?

Please read hub before commenting. Thank you. :-)

When I look at other people, I see people. I don’t see sexual orientation. I am amazed that many people still see this as a factor to personal identity, and many parents teach their kids to judge identity using this one factor. A person’s character goes much deeper than sexual orientation. As a high school teacher, I see all kinds of students and behaviors. Being homosexual is hard. Being Christian is hard. Students who are gay and Christian struggle with what is right or wrong because of the social norms that have been outlined in their community.


Young Christians

Young Christians seem to be one of those groups who do not get out of their comfort zone to experience who people really are. Their Christianity seems to be intolerant rather than tolerant of others who are different, especially homosexuals. Having said this, I now must say I am a Christian. I do not say this with shame. On the contrary, I say this with my eyes-wide-open and with honor. I work with the youth in my church and see how some of them embrace tolerance and some reject tolerance, and in most cases, they are emulating their parents. While some Christians do judge, others try to be like Christ and see people for who they are and not what they are. I want to know the person, and I don’t want to turn anyone away from my faith, from Christ. Learning this lesson is sometimes hard for young Christians.


Young Gay/Lesbians Coming Out and their Christian Families

For instance, more young people are “coming out of the closet” today. I suppose our level of acceptance has risen over the centuries, so the young gay community feels more secure in their “coming out.” Okay, so they are gay. Is that all they are? Do they not have feelings, jobs, friends, family, and interests that make up who they are? I know of a case where a young man in our church youth group “came out,” and his parents served in high profile community jobs and were both Sunday School teachers. The “outing” was devastating to the family, but let’s get some perspective. It seems that all of his wonderful qualities had flown out the window and had been replaced with the “gay” label. No, he is more than just gay. In this young man’s case, his parents were at first selfish. They were worried about what others would think of them and how it would look, but they didn’t stop to think how hard it was for their son to confess his homosexuality to a homophobic family. This kid has been awesome at nearly everything he has put effort into, and his personality is gregarious and caring.

Judgments from the Church Family

I guess his parents had a right to fear appearances because, sure enough, judgments were made, especially at church.  I was speaking to another youth director about the young man and stated we needed to handle this situation carefully so we did not turn him away from Christ.  Her response was that he had chosen his course and “would go to hell if he doesn’t change back.”  I was shocked at her lack of empathy for what the young man was going through and would be going through.  And, change back?  Can heterosexuals make themselves homosexuals in a blink of an eye?  I think not.  Where it seemed easy for her to pass judgment, the young man’s parents were struggling with knowing their child and finding out he had “added” homosexuality to his list of items in his identity.  They had to make a choice to either love their son and disagree with his sexual orientation or turn him out. Fortunately, they chose to love him.

 

Christian Friends Reactions to a Coming Out

The young man’s “outing” did not only create problems at home and church but at school, too. To the other students, he had always been “out there,” but until he made no secret about being gay, they were able to overlook his flamboyant ways and embraced him as a friend. One of his long time girl friends who he has gone to church and school with all his life said, “I don’t know how to handle it when he is telling me how ‘hot’ some guy is and how he wonders if the guy is gay. It freaks me out.” She said he seems to want to sleep with every good-looking boy in the school. I told her to continue being his friend. I also asked her what she would say to a girlfriend who appeared to be promiscuous. She said, “I would tell her that she needed to get her mind out of the gutter.” The girl is his true friend and is having a hard time dealing with some of his words and actions, but I told her to be patient, to love him, and to be honest with him. She needs to tell him when she thinks he is going too far with some of his comments. She said she knew that is what she needed to do, but sometimes she got so frustrated and was afraid he would feel she was judging him. He is young and needs to learn what is appropriate and what is inappropriate, just like all of us must learn at some point in our lives. Treating him “different” in a negative or pseudo-positive way will not help him. It will more than likely cause him to rebel and be promiscuous rather than try to understand this intimate part of his self.


He also has other friends who he has been raised with and who have now turned their backs on him. One girl said, “He has made his choice, and he needs to change back.” She is not willing to see any other side in his case. She doesn’t realize he is having a hard time too and needs his lifelong friends to remain with him. I asked her what Jesus would do. Maybe a cliché question now but relevant. She stumbled over this question. She finally said she would try to be a good friend to him and “pray for his situation.” Her answer implies she will not accept him as a friend if he continues “choosing” homosexuality. If he doesn’t make the changes, she will “wipe the dust” from her feet and walk away from him without a second glance back. She believes she is handling this in the Christian way, but she is judging and not putting much more thought into the true nature of the Christian way. I disagree with those who make themselves judge and juror, and I believe Jesus would too – He disagreed with the Pharisees. As a teacher and leader in my church, I feel I must pass on what I believe to be the heart of Christ, which is love, patience, and tolerance.

How Christ Treated Those Judged by the Community

As an example, Christ did not look at the adulteress who was about to be stoned as a whore without worth.  No, He saw her as a person, and He told the men, those who had chosen themselves to be judges and jurors, if there was one among them without sin to cast the first stone.  Well, we know what happened next.  They had to leave because they knew they, too, had sin in their lives.  Many of our young Christians know this story, but they conveniently forget it when things do not seem right to them.  With the young gay man, would it not be better to say, “I love you for who you are, but I do not agree with your lifestyle”?  Seriously, people agree to disagree all the time, a philosophy I try to pass on to my students and tell them we do not know what another person’s destiny holds.  Wouldn’t it be better to just say, “I am here for you, and I love you”?  Isn’t that the Christian way? I believe if those who love him and want him to be a good man should encourage him in all the other areas of his life.  None of us are perfect, so those who think so need to get over it and look deeper at themselves and the lives of others around them.  Granted, our youth are still learning about life, and self-realization is a tough one for young people who think they have most of the answers to life. 

 

What the Bible Says or Doesn’t Say

I do not recall any of the Commandments or Jesus’ teachings stating you will go to hell if you are a homosexual. Some Christians believe this, but I challenge them to find the passages in the Bible as proof. Yes, in Leviticus it states men lying with men is an abomination to God. It also states that cutting ones hair short is abominable to God, so are all our young men with short-cropped hair going to hell? Of course not! Leviticus was a guideline to health and survival for the Israelites as they made their 40-year track to the Promised Land, not a conditional reprimand to be used thousands of years later against others who do not quite “measure up.” Many, especially young adults, just take bits and pieces of the book and conveniently ignore the rest. Sin, any sin, is an abomination to God, and we have all done something that is considered a sin. “All fall short of the glory of God.” Our youth, and especially, many of our adult population, need to remember that compassion and love do not come with conditions. If this were not true, we would all be lost.

What Would Jesus Do?

How would Jesus treat a gay person?

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Comments 166 comments

your cybersister profile image

your cybersister 5 years ago from Just relocated from Florida to the mountains of North Carolina

Bravo! I am of the belief that a person doesn't choose their sexual preference, that it just "is". Can most of us recall a moment when we decided to be attracted to members of one sex or another? I think not, I think we just realized that we were. I don't think most people would "choose" something that would undoubtedly complicate their life.

I think you hit the whole thing on the head with the fact that homosexuality is only one part of someone's identity and the fact that it doesn't wipe out all of their other qualitites and shouldn't overshadow them either. Homosexuals are every bit as human as heterosexuals and deserve the same respect. As to the young man in your article, I can only imagine how difficult things are for him at this time. Being a teenager is tough enough without added complications.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

When you think about our own lives, how many times do we connect our sexual orientation to our identities? I never do. I didn't add anything about it in my bio. I did talk about my husband and my family, but these are people I hold dear to me. I would not think less of a gay or lesbian hubber who placed a partner as an important part of life.

I do not like judgment. It is not my place. I think we can say what we think is right or wrong, but we have no place to judge. As a Christian, people are going to judge me, which is fine. But only God can judge.

I am a big advocate of unconditional love because of my Christian faith. Christ did not come to be with the "good and rightgeous." He came to be with those who feel hopeless and alone. I think many in the gay community feel they will be rejected by Christians, which is a shame and exactly what Christ told us not to do to each other.

"Love one another as you would love yourself" is His command. I hope I get that one right. Life is too complicated for many, and we are deeper than our surface appearance.


GNelson profile image

GNelson 5 years ago from Florida

We need more people like you. I don't believe hate is a christian value.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Nope, I hope to get that message across to Christians who feel that they are judging "in the name of God." We should be caring about others, not shaming them. I need to take the plank out of my eye before I can tell someone to take the speck out of theirs. Thanks for commenting!


Denise Handlon profile image

Denise Handlon 5 years ago from North Carolina

Your compassion and tolerance re: this subject is evident. It is beneficial for teens to know that not everyone is against them, esp when they are faced with rejection b/c of their choice to be 'true' to themselves.

I live in a very rural town and 'gay' would not make it here. My nephew, who is gay, has been advised by me to 'keep a low profile' for his safety. He understands this and does not feel torn about this, I don't think. But, regardless, it is evident to most people meeting him that he is gay.

Thank you for sharing a sensitive topic.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Our community used to be rural and being gay was TABOO. It has grown over the years and while there are still stereotypical attitudes, some people are beginning to come around. All of us are more complex and cannot contribute our identity to only one aspect; therefore, it seems an injustice to be judged by only one quality when there are so many others that create the package deal. If you are a mean, nasty person, I am probably not going to enjoy being around you. If you are a witty, compassionate person who thinks of others, then I am sure I would enjoy your company. ("You" in the general sense.) It is the entire person who is no threat to society that needs to be looked at, not just one characteristic of the person.


prairieprincess profile image

prairieprincess 5 years ago from Canada

Sholland, this is good. And I think your approach is very balanced. It is okay to say to a person that you don't agree with their lifestyle, but that you accept them as a person, just as you would with a promiscuous girl that was sleeping around.

I have worked with teenagers, too, and I know as a teacher, you have to reach out to all the kids. There's no room for rejection of these people in their important years of growing up. Great hub, and I am glad you wrote it. Take care.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks Prairie Princess. I believe as Christians we should try to have unconditional compassion for all. I think since you and I work with teenagers, we see the good and bad in them, but we can give the benefit of the doubt because we want them to succeed and feel good about themselves. You are right - there is no room for rejection. :-)


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 5 years ago from Wales, UK

A good hub and a good counter-balance to Church hysteria about homosexuality.

Probably all of us can remember some kid in school who appeared to be wired differently long before any of us had any idea about sexuality. So being gay cannot be simply a lifestyle choice in all cases.

How many Church leaders just love a rare steak with the blood oozing out, in direct contradiction to the OT and the four rules given by Peter to the Church in Acts 15? The Church has a pick and mix attitude to what is right and what is wrong. Ho hum.


Liz Goltra profile image

Liz Goltra 5 years ago

Thank you for the thoughtful article. My partner of 12 years and I attend a fabulous church where we are lucky to feel very welcomed. I know we get a few looks from children (and adults), but I am proud of my relationship and think it's great for people in the church to witness the beautiful relationship I am so blessed to have.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Liz,

I am so glad you and your partner have found a church home. My main concern is intolerant Christians. I believe when Christ said that a person who led a child (we are all children of God) down the wrong path (away from Christ's unconditional love) that they would be better off with a mill stone around their neck and thrown in water to drown, meant all of us who believe in Him should have unconditional love for others like He does. Intolerant Christians judging gays/lesbians and saying they are going to hell are WRONG in doing so and are actually making people turn away from Christ. This truly bothers me because Christ loves each of us - there is no criteria to receive His love.

Keep your faith in Christ, and He will be there for you -ALWAYS. :-)

Susan

PS Total paraphrasing of the Bible and Christ's words on my part.


maewallace22 profile image

maewallace22 5 years ago

I do like your hub. I have a friend who is a lesbian and I had a friend who I loved very much who was gay. I am a christian and they new where I stood as far as there life style was concerned. I believe totally in the word of God, no ifs, ors, or buts about it. We can't change it to benefit ourselves. I love all Gods people, I love the thief,the liar,the adulterer. We have all sinned and came short of the glory of God. But it is still not right. As christians we have a responsibility to speak the truth and to spread the good news about Jesus. So we pray for them as well as for ourselves our family and friends and all those who sin. But we never stop loving them.


stevenbcold profile image

stevenbcold 5 years ago from Wyomissing

I really enjoyed your hub. Great job. You are so right to treat ALL of God's people with love and respect. I pray for these young people discovering their identities. I've taught all ages and found students who needed my council on this topic. I tell my students that puberty is a difficult time and it is alright to have these feelings. Before "coming out" , they need to be fully aware of how they feel and who they are. Also, they need to be prepared for the ignorant people in the world. For their own protection. No matter what they decide is right for them, they need to be safe and love themselves. Sex is an expression of love and should be treated with respect. God wants his children to love themselves and others. Hate is the sin, not love.


FirstCommunion profile image

FirstCommunion 5 years ago from US

I love reading this hub!


OpinionDuck profile image

OpinionDuck 5 years ago

Pedophiles, like gays are also attracted to not only the same sex but age is no barrier.

The commandments didn't mention partners, they mention father, mother, wife.

It was also adam and eve, and not adam and steve.

If your God wanted gays, then he would have made us Asexual, but he wanted us to be fruitful and multiply.You can't do that in the gay world.

There are many genetic defects in humans, but we don't call that a way of life, we call them handicaps and try to repair them. If gay is a biological manifestation, then it is one of those genetic defects.

I object to changing society to fit a square peg in it. I have no problem with gay unions, or gay friendships but I don't think marriage was created for their vessel.

A true homosexual society couldn't last, because it can reproduce. I don't like when homosexuals don't like being called fags and queers, but have no problem in calling anyone that doesn't agree with them, as homophobes.

They have wealth and political power, and they have become militant in their quest to destroy society as it has existed till now.

The world today doesn't even reflect the presence of a God, at least not a God that care about human life, so where did all these prayers go to?

God doesn't love everyone, the Big Flood, and all the acts of God, like the Earthquakes and Tsunami in Japan. Nature is the equivalent of God's power, and it kills randomly.

God has quite the temper.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

OpinionDuck,

We will have to agree to disagree. I will use the analogy of parent/child relationship: God gave us free will. He gave us guidelines and disciplines us, like most parents do their children. We either choose to keep Him in our lives or we don't - just like our children can do with us. I believe He has unconditional love for everyone. The same type of unconditional love that many or most parents have for their children, except with much more depth and understanding. Sometimes we do not know or understand why our children do the things they do, but we still love them. Sometimes we have to discipline our children because we love them, but they may not understand us at the time. God does the same thing but on a grander scale and with more children and with understanding.

I will not pretend to understand why God allows some things to happen, and, again, it is like our children not understanding what we do as parents. I do believe He has things under control and things will occur in His time.

As far as homosexuals not liking to be called derogatory names - I am not sure I know who does. None of us are perfect. Some gays judge Christians and vise versa. Neither way is right. I think I understand your point, though, which is the politcal correctness having a double standard. On the other hand, I believe there are many corrupt heterosexuals who would like to change society, too. And, again, neither way is right.

When you say the presence of God is not reflected in this world, you are correct. Satan is the prince of this world - for now, and I don't look for God in the world. I look for Him within myself and in the hearts of others. The Word of God tells us how to live, but the world is "listening" less and less.

I still stand by my original point - we should love as Jesus loves - including all - and unconditionally. :-)

Take Care,

Sholland


seriousnuts profile image

seriousnuts 5 years ago from Philippines

Hi sholland10,

I like reading your hub. It's my first time to read something about unconditional love to gays from a Christian's point of view. You do have a point. With regards to the morality of being a homosexual, that I do not know.. All I know is that we should respect all people whether homosexual or heterosexual. They are still human. All people sin, and being a gay (if that indeed a sin) does not make it any more sinful than those who steal, cheat, or lie. It's a relief to know that this young man's family is willing to accept him. Disowning him would just create more harm than good. I have guy friends who are homophobic. They had some bad experiences with homosexuals. I guess that is why may people do not tolerate them, it's because of generalization. My theory is that some gays go too far (just like a promiscuous girl) because of rebellion. Society won't accept them, which leads to their rebellion.


stevenbcold profile image

stevenbcold 5 years ago from Wyomissing

I commend you Sholland for disarming those who have left such ignorant messages. You must have a tolerant and beautiful soul. I will continue reading all of your hubs. Such taboo topics often have scrutiny. I think you've dealt with those people respectfully. Good for you. It is sad to think that there are ignorant fools that believe all gay people are like pedophiles. Perhaps they haven't heard of the "Cougar" trend. When an older woman dates a young man. Proving age is not a restriction for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.

You have spoken about young people. These young ones should be treated with understanding. Perhaps it is a phase or maybe it is who they are. Time will tell. Prayers and love should be given to them. Jesus loves God's people.

I have been all around the world and everywhere I go, I see God in this world. Enlightened souls can do this with ease. There may be evil but those with God in their souls can see him all around.

Bigotry comes in many forms. Against race, political views and sexual identity. It is so sad. When I dated a beautiful black woman, people were outraged. Why? We were in love. This is the same discrimination that gay people deal with. As the racial war slows down, hatred is placed on the homosexuals.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks All for your responses. I would love to hear more opinions on this topic.

I know some people are vehemently against homosexuality to the extent that they judge or worse. I also realize that just with homosexuality, we cannot always break away from our roots with our beliefs or feelings. We don't have to accept everything everyone does, nor agree with it, nor think it is right, BUT those things should not keep us from having compassion towards each other as human beings. We should remember each person is unique and more complex on the surface. Don't get me wrong, there are some people I would like to have a "volume control" placed on them. LOL I just do not believe we should be hurting each other verbally or physically when it is something no one has control over. We never know a full extent of a person's life. I need to take the plank out of my eye before I can tell you to get the speck out of yours. Judge not lest ye be judged... Well, you get the point. ;-)


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

sholland, I am an atheist and you have explained what I always thought the teachings of jesus actually were. It was refreshing to hear my point of view and a couple of my arguments about homosexuality from another christian. I have to wonder if this isn't part of the problem...If a christians doubts or questions one aspect of their beliefs, do they feel that this places their entire belief system in danger of collapsing?

I fail to see why so many who are against homosexuality based on a couple of passages, feel justified in cherry picking the words they chose to follow. If homosexuality is an abomination and these people are going to hell for it, wouldn't it make sense that every christian who has ever eaten shrimp is also bound for hell? I respect your opinions and look forward to learning more about the christian faith fromsomeone who has better things to do than judge everyone else simply to make themselves feel better about the commandments they choose to ignore. Please don't mistake that statement as an idication that I am questioning my beliefs. I simply seek to learn more about the teaching of jesus that so few christians are willing to embrace. Peace to you and yours and please don't stop trying to help protect these young kids from the majority of christians.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hey Stump Parrish! Sometimes I think people get so caught up in what is EXPECTED from others that they miss the point of what they are standing for. Christ didn't come to the world to save those who already knew the Word of God and had made their choices because of appearances' sake, though all have the chance to make amends (speaking of the Pharisee-type). No, He came to the world for people who need love or lack something in their lives. He also said He came to divide the world because He knew some would follow and some would not and that some would misinterpret for their own purpose. I think the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and His commandment: "Love others as you would love yourself" say it all in a nutshell. If we do those two things, all else falls seems to fall in place for us to be decent human beings. You and I may not be on the same page with our beliefs, but it seems that our morals are similar. :-) The best way for you to learn about the teachings of Christ is to read and decide for yourself.

Please do not think all Christians are the enemy though. I have pointed out beliefs in unconditional love and compassion to many Christians who step back and feel bad about things they have said or done that might have pushed others away from Christ. All of us make mistakes and are human. Many Christians feel exactly as I do and practice it much better than I do. We can't clump everyone into one group - just like homosexuals have been clumped. Too many unique and interesting individuals walking around to not give them a chance to show us their all, not just an aspect like, "I'm gay," or "I'm Christian," or "I'm an atheist." Nope, there is much more to it than that. I want to know the depth, not the surface. And to you, may you have peace and joy in your life. I enjoy our exchanges.


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

sholland, By no means do I assume all christians are the enemy and I know a lot that are wonderful people. I do tend to make quick judgements and I assume this is due to having lived for years in the bible belt. Luckily I have no problem admitting when I am wrong and appologizing for it.

I agree that today the label one applies to another is often more important than the person given the label. The sad thing is that very few get to know the person before applying the label. Even worse is whenas you mentioned, they know who and what the person is and abandon them once the label has been applied.For the life of me I can't figure out how a person's opinion of another can be changed by changing their name.

I have no interest in reading the bible and prefer to seek my knowledge from the people who claim to be this or that. I can see more in someone's actions than in the words they probably haven't read themselves. MOst christians I come across have no idea what is actually in the bible and even considering this fact I know that, not all of these people are the same. Some people are simply good people and others will never be. Those are the ones who generally have the holier than thou attitude that does more to push people away from the church than any other single item.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

I worried when I wrote the article, then posted it as a hub, that many may think I was slamming all Christians and might jump on that bandwagon if they were anti-Christian. I wanted to make Christians think about what they do and say, not bring on a barrage of slams. So far the discussions have been good and have variety. I grew up in the Bible Belt, too, and I am still here.

I am with you - there is no place for derogatory labels. As a high school teacher, I see many kids try to put a label on others. I can usually reason with them because as kids they have not thought about how many different angles to look at things or how to think outside of their world. I think adults should have that lesson under their belt though, especially if they are a Christian. Though it is cliché now, I take the question, "What would Jesus do?" very seriously. I admit to leaping before looking at times but when calm, rational thoughts filter in (hopefully in most cases - sorry, I'm human - lol), I know what I did wrong or said wrong and want to fix it immediately.

I don't think I could trust my observations for knowledge. I would rather go straight to the source to find out what is really stated; otherwise, I would be afraid that I misinterpreted what I saw or heard. I do love to people watch, though. And you are right, there are always going to be good people and people who just don't "get it" as far as being a good person. And the holier than thou attitude is exactly what I would like Christians to rid themselves of.


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

yes what would jesus do? Jesus would say

"Go and sin no more"

All people no matter what their sin(s) have to change their ways. If they don't well, we get a hypocritical christian with self still on the throne and we get someone not subjected to the will (preferences) of God and this is equal to rebellion, hence we end up with in all cases of sin not dealt with, a weak disciple or a half called out one.

Yes love is the key, but we are also to reprove works of darkness and we are called to identify sin not judge it, comfort and help each other in love. Love also warns and love even as Paul said, releases people to satan that the spirit may be saved.

Gayness is not something we ignore or tolerate, we look for the white hair in the red rising and if it is deeper than the skin, we put it outside the camp for a period of testing, then re-examine the situation at a later date.

Holiness unto the lord is paramount.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks for your comment. Unconditional love is what Jesus would do. Since He is God, He is able to love all unconditionally - no matter the circumstances. We can tolerate a lot, so I do think it is up to God to do make any changes in a person. God has a purpose for all of us. If we let Him in, His Holy Spirit will guide us. We are meant to plant the seeds, but God is the Gardner. :-)


Michael6382 profile image

Michael6382 5 years ago from Odessa,Tx 79761

I believe the short hair that you mentioned in Leviticus is referring to shaved head, not short hair. 1 Corinthisans 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you that, if a man have long hear, it is a shame unto him" (another reason why pictures of Jesus today are ridiculous, he had short hair). Read Romans first chapter


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

I don't buy the unconditional love aspect. Notice the problems Israel OT had when they sinned. Salvation is a condition for experiencing Gods love in a more personal way. Yes the love for all is there, but jesus is the way, the cross is significant and if people don't come to God they will not experience any part of God after judgment. Yes we plant seeds and the holy spirit causes the change but we must plant those seeds.

Don't be worried about your hubs you have a deny button. You don't have to publish any of their hate speech. Keep on hubbing, please. =)


Michael6382 profile image

Michael6382 5 years ago from Odessa,Tx 79761

I also agree with brotherochanan and not buying the unconditional love, the word say woe unto those that call right wrong and wrong right.Isn't it one thing to sin and another to live in a state of sin and know it and not repent and change it?


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

I still say love unconditionally and leave the heavy lifting to God. We are all sinners and fall short. God looks at all sin as the same - sin is sin. As humans, we put sin into levels. I am thankful that God has loved me through good times and bad, through sinning and not sinning. Jesus died for all of us, not just an elected group. All have the choice, and I don't want to stand in front of God one day and have Him tell me that I intentionally turned my back on someone who could have been saved - and I say this about any type of person. Showing the Fruits of the Spirit and loving my enemies is not always easy, but it is what we are told to do. If someone does not change, that is between that person and God. I can only try to show compassion without judgment.

Many in the gay community are treated like they are going to hell, and I don't believe Christians should behave that way. We don't know what God's great plan is. Look at the people in the Bible and their sins then look at how God shined through those people. David and Paul come to mind right off the bat, but there are so many others.

Jesus also said that it would be more tolerable for the Soddomites on the day of judgment than it would be for the Pharisees (Matt. 10:15 and Matt. 11:24). AND "with God ALL things are possible" (Matt. 19:26).

Great discussion. Thanks for your comments. I also love Matthew 5. :-)


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

That's the trouble with sin and why God went through so much trouble to keep it out of our lives. The deeper a person gets in sin the harder it is to get out of it. I'm a single, never married Christian, I don't get sex but that's the cross to be borne, is it not? I'm lonely, shall i become gay so people will not mention my problems and i can do what i want? I am so glad that i do not have to face these kind of problems, the ones i had to face were tough enough. Gods grace is all through the bible and so is his correction. If a person wants Gods best then they will have to give their best. Abraham was so very sad while on the way to sacrifice Issac but nevertheless, he went through with the mission. The Christian walk is not just about getting to heaven. Many will cry, Lord, Lord and not be accepted by God. Its the relationship. People who live in sin cannot have a quality relationship with God. So hurt as it may, our tolerance cannot be mistaken for approval. We need to help these people through prayer and encouragement and late nights on the phone if need be, but we need to ensure their success at reformation.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

You are right, the Christian walk is not just about getting to heaven, and it is not an easy walk. It is living and loving as Christ would do. We try and fall short, but we have to keep trying, and our fruits are what we will be judged for. Jesus didn't give up on me, so I try to pay that forward to others. Our relationship with God is the most important. There will be lots of agreeing to disagreeing and lots of disapproval with others and from others, but we cannot let those things get in the way of seeing a person for who he/she really is - another child of God. We must pray that God leads us to do what is right. We all have our trials and hopefully gain something from them. If not, that is on us, not God. He gave us free will hoping we choose Him. I will choose Christ and not be ashamed. I hope we remember who we are representing, and make sure it is not our "self" that is showing through but God's wisdom and compassion. And as mentioned before, yes, God's grace abounds and He does discipline; He is the ultimate parent. :-) Yes, we do need to help people, but we must accept that we planted the seed and may never see its growth. We must have faith that God is working after we have done what we think He wants us to do. I can reform no one - only God can do that.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Sholland 10,

We can overreact from the sin in people’s lives. Whether someone comes out of the closet or not should be irrelevant to a follower of Jesus Christ according to what the Bible says. What should be relevant is that without a transformation, the mind is in a different state altogether. The true definition of sin or evil is the lack of righteousness. It is our lack of righteousness that creates the evil in this world.

Simply put, the lack of righteousness in our lives separates us from Jesus Christ. Without His grace, our minds are not transformed, and without His power, our lives are not changed. Scripture is used to judge this state of unrighteousness. That is the standard.

The people in the world and those who are in the body of Christ are two distinct matters.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

There are many verses in the Bible that call us to judge the behaviour of sin, especially those who are in the church body. Jesus Christ loves the whole world and died for all of us, but it is only by accepting His free gift of grace, and allowing Him to change us, that makes a true follower of Christ. A true follower of Christ is in His body and has changed from the *double-mindedness* of the world into a single-mind with Him. It is in one accord with Him.

Many churches raise the flag of "unconditional love", but really it is only a form of pride. The term is masked in the term “tolerance”. “Tolerance” for a continual sinful lifestyle in the church body is not Scriptural. The body of Christ is obligated and required to discipline those in the church who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but who have made the *choice* to continue in their sinful and carnal ways.

And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?

1 Corinthians 5:1-2

We all can form a relative opinion on any person's lifestyle. Sin is of the world. The more we allow of the world in our lives and in the body of Christ represents the lack Jesus Christ's grace in our lives and also in the church. His power is denied.

You said,

("I feel I must pass on what I believe to be the heart of Christ, which is love, patience, and tolerance.")

Unfortunately, this is not the whole truth in the context of Scripture. There are two distinct differences to *whom* Scripture is applied. Understanding the difference would take the confusion out of the terms "love", "patience", and "tolerance".

Unrighteousness is not in one accord with Jesus Christ and His true body.

Do you condone a continual homosexual lifestyle within the body of Christ?

Also, is showing the *love* of Jesus Christ towards a homosexual in the world the same as condoning their same behaviours in the church body; is there distinction?

If there is not a distinction in this case, then apostasy is the term I would use in this matter.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

PlanksandNails,

Thank you for your response. As we have both stated, Christ does love all of us and He died for all of us. Tolerance does not mean acceptance. My concern is getting to Heaven and taking as many people with me as possible. Judging people causes them to turn away. Christ said, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Many come to Christ and still have sin in their lives. None of us are without sin and should not be throwing stones. I believe we should show the Fruits of the Spirit to others in order to be able to lead them to Christ. It is not up to us to make the changes in that person's life - that is left to Christ.

If He wants any of us to change, we will change for His glory. I do not know anyone who has come to Christ without being changed. We trust in Him, and He leads. We become impatient and want things on our timeline, but Christ is in charge, and we should not concern ourselves with things that are in His hands because we are to have faith. I want others to see Christ living through me, but it is His ultimate power and choice that will change others, not mine. He has used sin in the lives of others to create a bigger and better good. What if God had turned His back on David who coveted, committed adultery, and murdered? What would have happened to the line of Christ if Bathsheba had not been in the picture – the BIG picture? God does not let our sin get in the way of His plan. Christ did not let sin get in the way of His unconditional love for us. I will leave it to Christ to change a homosexual or not. I am supposed to love others, and I don't recall any exceptions to the Rule. We each have a purpose in God’s plan. If I see a gay man or woman who has come to Christ and is bringing others to Christ, I will not question the means. We are to go into the world and preach/share the Gospel. Christ did not come the first time to sit with the Pharisees and Sadducees. He came to the world and expects us to follow His example. I intend to try to do that and leave the judging to Him.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Sholland 10,

("Judging people causes them to turn away. Christ said, "Judge not lest ye be judged.")

So many people use this verse in the Bible in the wrong context especially when a follower of Christ is discerning wrongful behaviour, ethics, morality, values etc... In fact this verse does not speak about not judging, but judging in an unfair way. We cannot judge with bad intentions, but with honesty and righteousness. If we are fair and compassionate, so will Jesus Christ also be towards us. In order to judge according to the Word we must be in an upright position before we can help others out of their bondage of sin. We must first take the plank out of our own eye first before we can clearly judge in truth; otherwise, we are being hypocrites.

The fact is God desires and requires us to judge. Here are just a few scripture verses as examples:

My son, preserve sound *judgment* and discernment, do not let them out of your sight

Proverbs 3:21

Or do you not know that the saints will *judge* the world? If the world is *judged* by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will *judge* angels? How much more matters of this life?

1 Corinthians 6:2-3

“Do not judge according to appearance, but *judge* with righteous judgment.”

John 7:24

so that you may *approve* the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ

Philippians 1:10

We are to use the truth in Scripture in order to discern what sin is. The distinction can be made in this way. The behaviour, deeds, and choices a person makes in the church body are to be held accountable and judged by those in the body of Christ for the lifestyle choices that they make as professing followers of Jesus Christ, according to what Scripture says.

If we cannot discern and judge the difference between righteous and unrighteous behaviour , we are useless in expanding His kingdom.

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Mathew 7:6

Here is the famous quote used by those who defend sinful behaviour in the church:

“He who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Again, many misunderstand what Jesus was saying here. In fact, a judgement was correct according to the law in this matter, but the men who held the stones had evil intent in their hearts and a dark agenda in their desire to execute the woman. Jesus saw this unrighteous judgement that was about to take place and saved the women from it. Jesus did not make an excuse for the sin of the prostitute, nor did He condone it, but forgave her and said, “Go and sin no more”. You see, sin is sin, and a sinner is a sinner. Jesus did no put conditions on the sin in order to be politically correct or avoid the discomfort others who disagreed with Him. Today, watered down Christianity are embracing sinners in the body of Christ, and there they remain sinners. If you *love* someone enough you will tell them the truth out rightly in love that sin is sin.

Many still don’t understand that sinful behaviour before forgiveness is still sinful behaviour after forgiveness.

When we piece together tidbits of the Bible to fit our own agenda, especially when it pertains to unrighteousness, the true knowledge, understanding, and meaning of Jesus’ words are missed in their totality, and His words are used to excuse sin, instead of turning from it.

For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:14

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

PlanksandNails,

The point of my hub is being misunderstood. Christians should go unto the world - not walk in their own groups -and use the love of Christ to lead people to Christ.

We will have to agree to disagree on people judging others. Maybe the Holy Spirit has commissioned you with a different approach and mission than He did with me. It takes different people to reach so many lost. And it takes different people with different approaches to try to help doubters to remain in Christ. My approach is to show Christ's love, and I don't believe He wants me to put myself in the place of His finger.

God Bless You and Keep You. I pray that through the Grace of Christ we both take as many souls with us as possible.

Sholland10


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Please read Romans 14 from start to finish. That is the attitude I am trying to convey. The misunderstanding may be in my words, but God's Word is very clear.


stevenbcold profile image

stevenbcold 5 years ago from Wyomissing

My beloved Sholland

You are so beautiful to love these young people. So many young ones commit suicide or hurt themselves because they feel they may be homosexual. Truth is, they are children. They are just starting to figure life out. It takes a loving sweetheart like yourself to help them. Without them feeling judgment for who they are or think they are. You are helping them embrace Jesus. Some homosexuals might be afraid to even go to church. You provide love and understanding so they may be educated. This is your gift. I share this gift. I have been all over the world and have been asked about Christianity by some who have never even heard of Jesus. If I approached them with judgment they may never understand Jesus. As they ask me about my beliefs, I am just as interested in their beliefs. Religious tolerance is needed. Those Christians that practice this will find they have an opportunity to share Jesus with those who don't know him. Judgmental supremacy is the root of ignorance and hate. Let us love all of our brothers and our sisters and pray for their redemption.

-Saint Steven B Love


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Steven, thank you for your kind words. :-)


Stump Parrish profile image

Stump Parrish 5 years ago from Don't have a clue, I'm lost.

Sholland, I have been following the comments as the were added and have to ask this. According to the abominations that god described in the old tesament, how many christians can actually take the high road in condemning homosexuals? There are two references that may or may not have been mistranslated are used to condemn homosexuality. Now When I point these discrepancies to christians, I get ignored. Who first determined which abomination must be obeyed and which could be ignored by self proclaimed christians? These inconsistancies are one of the biggest problems I have with modern day chriswtians. There are countless aboninations that are ignored on a daily basis and yet, 85% of christians know in their heart that all homosexuals are going to hell. Those who wore polyester diring the 70's get a free ride. Those who eat their favorite chopped BBq sandwich get a free ride in regards to eating the flesh of swine. Those who dine regularly at red lobster and or like some shrimp on occasiion get a free ride. Those who plant a back yard garden get a free ride from the abomination that planting more than one crop in a field. However, those darned homosexuals are surely goin to hell based on an abomination that god listed along with the rest of them abominations. I have spoken with a professor who studied the acient languages the bible was written in, He has pointed out numerous mistakes in these translations and yet most modern day christians refuse to even consider the possibility. Their backwoods education gave them a better understanding of the bible than a person who has spent his life studying it.

Sorry for the lengthy ramble here and I look forward to an answer from you and anyone who may be able to explain why most christians feel they have the right and the ability to determine which words of god are to be ignored.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Sholland 10,

I am glad you brought up this chapter in Romans because many don’t understand what type of matters Paul is referring to. It is very important to understand the difference between disputable and indisputable matters. Paul is not saying that anything goes. If you look at Romans 1:28-32 below:

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

In these verses it is pretty clear that there are clear distinctions between right and wrongful behaviours. The argument here is whether homosexuality in the church is a disputable or indisputable issue, meaning that one is a temporal issue(not necessary for salvation) and the other is eternal (necessary for salvation).

Bias, prejudice, convenience, peer pressure, fear, emotions, and fads often choose a person’s conviction or beliefs, but as a follower of Jesus Christ, it has to be based on the conviction of the Holy Spirit and an informed decision on what Scripture really says. Examples of disputable matters that are in in Romans 14 are: eating or not eating meat, drinking or not drinking wine, and considering one day more special than another. An indisputable matter, on the other hand, is one that cannot be re-interpreted for what it already plainly says and are doctrines in Scripture that are necessary for our eternal salvation. These things cannot be re-interpreted to fit a relative opinion, but are plain and clear. As a follower of Jesus Christ there must be unity in indisputable matters with other believers; otherwise, the witness of Jesus Christ will not glorify God and the body of Jesus Christ will become apostate. There can be diversity in someone’s conviction or opinion on disputable issues, but not in the indisputable matters.

Romans 14 in its entirety are talking about disputable issues in this world that we come across with other believers, but do not pertain to life and death matters. Read the last word in the verse below that is in the very first verse in Roman chapter 14.

Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his *opinions*.

Roman 14:1

Opinions are disputable. Paul is saying that we should not pass judgement or condemn those who believe or have an opinion on certain things because they are not life or death issues, but we should be more concerned on how we get along with other believers.

The most important matters that are the indisputable ones are the essential moral demands of being a genuine follower of Jesus Christ. A lack of understanding and distinction between that which is essential and non-essential will determine a person’s eternal destiny and is very important to understand.

I would hope that you would understand these distinctions as you show the genuine love of Jesus Christ towards homosexuals. *A witness for Jesus Christ must draw attention to what it says in God’s Word.* In order for salvation, a homosexual must admit that he/she is living in sin and has a desire to be free of that lifestyle. Without real genuine conviction about God’s displeasure towards unrighteousness and a real genuine desire to follow Him, there is no hope. To be genuinely be born again there is no desire to continue to practice sinful behaviours. That is the power of Jesus Christ working in that person.

A homosexual lifestyle may bring temporary gratification to the carnal nature, but there is a penalty of loss of fellowship with God and not being a part of inheriting His kingdom.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:8

and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 John 2:2

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:16

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Mark 16:15


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Stump! I cannot claim to be a Bible scholar, but I will attempt to answer your questions. I believe Leviticus was God’s book of health rules for the Israelites as they were trekking through the desert for 40 years. They were an ancient people who knew nothing of the connection between cleanliness and health – as a matter of fact, I don’t think people really understood that connection until the Renaissance in Europe, and even then it was a crude understanding. God gave the abominations to keep them healthy from the elements and from each other passing disease back and forth. Eating ill-prepared pork can give worms. Being sexually promiscuous can pass disease. Not washing can create and multiply germs and pass germs to others… you see what I am saying. In Exodus He gave the 10 Commandment to keep them/us from moral uncleanliness.

To answer from Christ’s words, He tells His disciples after speaking against the traditions of the Pharisees in Mark 19: 18 – 23 that “nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’”… and goes on to tell them it is what comes out of a man that makes him clean or unclean. It is what is in our hearts that make us who we are – clean or unclean.

Back in Mark 2: 21 – 22, He makes the analogy over the old religion with wineskins by saying you do not put wine into an old wineskin with a patch or “the wine will burst the skins.” He came (the new wineskin) because the old religion excluded all but the Jews and because the Pharisees and Sadducees had twisted God’s Word into what worked for them. Keeping the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule will help us. Accepting Christ will secure us for eternity. He came to save all. I hope this simple answer helps.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

PlanksandNails, part of witnessing is sharing the Gospel. My hub is about sharing the Gospel with the gay community in order for them to come to and stay with Christ. Christ will decide how He wants to work through them, you, me, etc. I hand that to Him in my complete faith in Him. Do you not have complete faith in Him? This is not about my works; it is about Christ’s works through me. You want me to say that homosexuals are going to hell if they do not give up their lifestyle. I will not say that, and if I can consciously help it, I will not be a “stumbling block” by passing that judgment and keeping them or anyone from the Kingdom of Heaven. We have until the last second of life to accept Christ – the thief on the cross – so planting seeds is my commission not throwing them on rocks or into the thornbushes. Pride, arrogance, and ego are sins, too. God places all sin on the same level – sin is sin. Christians are not perfect and, because of our human nature, do not completely shed their sin nature after receiving Christ. Christ is the only perfect Man who has ever walked this earth because He is God. There are two absolutes that I know without a doubt – Christ is the Savior (the Bible) and the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12: 30 – 32). I leave you with that. If you do not accept what I am trying to do, then wipe the dust from your feet and walk away because even though you are wearing me out, you are not wearing me down.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Sholland 10,

(“You want me to say that homosexuals are going to hell if they do not give up their lifestyle.”)

The Bible is specific to what happens when we rebel against Him, it is indisputable.

(“I will not be a “stumbling block” by passing that judgment and keeping them or anyone from the Kingdom of Heaven.”)

You cannot pass judgement on them because that is reserved for God. God has already spoken of the consequences in His Word. It is indisputable.

(“God places all sin on the same level – sin is sin.”)

This is false. Sin is sin, but there are different levels according to Scripture. There are five levels the Bible speaks of and I will try to explain them with examples of Scripture.

1. *UNINTENTIONAL SIN* – this is sin where we fall short where we make a mistake or we are deceived into thinking we are doing the right thing, but we are in error. Also, we can unknowingly be sinning.

but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:7-8

Also keep back Your servant from *presumptuous* sins; Let them not rule over me; Then I will be blameless, And I shall be acquitted of great transgression.

Psalm 19:13

“Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If a person sins *unintentionally* in any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, and commits any of them

Leviticus 4:2

2. *RE-OCCURRING SIN* – this is sin that we know is wrong, but can’t help ourselves.

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Romans 7:18-20

Conforming to the image of Jesus Christ can take time. You cannot wilfully sin when you are trying not to and know that it is unrighteous behaviour.

3. WILLFUL SIN – this equates to someone who claims to be a follower of Christ, but wilfully sins even though they know it is rebellion against God in order satisfies their carnal desires.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

1 John 3:4

Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

James 4:17

But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Romans 14:23

4. *SIN OF UNBELIEF* – this is sin of a person who does not care and fight or advocates for their sinful behaviour. In essence these people are in contention with God’s kingdom and His people.

For if we go on sinning *wilfully* after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

Hebrews 10:26-27

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:9

5. *APOSTASY* – this is sin of fully understanding the Gospel and rejecting it.

Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30

and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

There must be a distinction between the types of sin in this world. It is false to say that they are all on the same level. To continually and wilfully continue in sinful behaviour will lead to destruction.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth

1 John 1:6

Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 1:15

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners

1 Timothy 1:8-9

(“If you do not accept what I am trying to do, then wipe the dust from your feet and walk away because even though you are wearing me out, you are not wearing me down.”)

I realize you have a sincere heart towards homosexuals, but when I read the Bible examples you used in your hub, I wanted to clarify that there are distinctions between what we can judge and what is reserved for God. From Scripture, God has already determined the consequences and judgement of those who do not accept or abuse His grace. Many churches have become apostate for not standing up for the truth in God’s Word by allowing homosexual pastors to perform “gay” unions. This is incompatible to God’s Word and is willful rebellion and apostasy towards God.

On the other hand, outside of the church, Jesus Christ showed love for all sinners and shared the Good News and through their *humility* many were saved. Many homosexuals have turned their lives around and allowed the grace of Jesus Christ to heal them and have become productive in the body of Christ and inheritors of His eternal kingdom. We should all show Christ’s love towards the homosexual people and treat them and respect them as human beings. In the body of Christ; however, willful sin, sin of unbelief, and apostasy are distinct from unintentional and re-occurring sin. It is our duty as a witness for Jesus Christ to discern and judge these differences; otherwise, the very people you are trying to reach will be confused and the body of Christ will become infiltrated by our own relative truth instead of His absolute truth.

Following Jesus Christ is not about coercion (you are going to hell, or turn or burn), but an informed decision on the conviction of the Holy Spirit and applying the true revelation of Scripture.

*However, they did not all heed the good news;* for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by *the word of Christ.*

Romans 10:16


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

It's so nice when I am moved to give a biblical response to a hub, but am also in a hurry, to see PlanksandNails has already done so. Sound doctrine and wise discernment are in small supply here on HubPages, so it's quite refreshing to see you conveying it with both grace and eloquence Planks.

@Sholland, I can only echo the previous comments, but I must say that while love and grace are very beautiful things, they should not overshadow truth and the recognition of sin. The Bible is crystal clear on the subject of homosexuality, and it is only within the recent past that we've decided it needs to be reinterpreted to fit cultural leanings. Both Christ and Paul reiterate the Old Testament stance on same sex relationships, and the old, tired "Christians are hypocrites because they mix fibers and eat shellfish" argument is honestly quite absurd, and betrays a lack of understanding of the Bible and the various contexts within which it was written and practiced (I can further elucidate on this if need be).

I guess I would just encourage you to pray for discernment in this, because I don't think a Christian is really doing anyone a favor by merely being "tolerant." After all, if you have a friend who is engaged in a destructive lifestyle such as alcoholism, do you merely accept their choice and reinterpret the biblical passages on the use of alcohol to minimize their sin, or do you talk to that person, show them lovingly where they are stumbling and share the freedom which Christ offers?

Grace is an amazing thing, but when it ignores and justifies sin, it is sorely missing the point.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

I appreciate your comments. Take Care and God Bless!


RAM2 5 years ago

Sholland ~ For one who looks so young, your kindness and wisdom are beyond your years. I think our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ would be proud of you and the way you are going about spreading the Word of God.

I've read your article and every entry in this hub page, so now I have comment and question of my own please...

I've had many, many friends throughout my long and blessed lifetime (male, female, black, white, native american, oriental, American, Foreign, gay, lesbian, straight, young, old, etc.) and I've lived long enough to see so many changes in attitudes in people and in our society (some good, some not so good, some very bad)…

With regard to this issue, I have one question that has remained unanswered... it is my understanding that a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh and they are to go forth and multiply (procreate) so as to populate the earth... likewise, I believe that God makes us all in His image and that He makes NO mistakes and everything is done according to His will and His plan alone, it does not matter whether we understand it all or not...

That being said, I simply cannot fathom how any Christian (or even non-Christians) could say homosexuality is a “mistake”, or “genetic defect”, or “cross to bear”, because if we are all made by God in His image, then indeed gays and lesbians were born (made by God) just as they are from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet and everything in between including their eye color, hair color, sexuality, gender, and even whether they would be born individually or as a child from multiple births such as a twin, triplet, or so forth…

So excuse my aging mind, and please know that I am respectfully asking for and appreciate your input here, but it appears to me that if God in all his wisdom and glory has created a monogamous partner for each of His heterosexual children (creations made in His image) so that the two should cleave to one another in His grace, love, glory and reverence and go forth to spread His Word and enter into a righteous relationship with God… would it not also seem likely that our divine Lord would also anticipate that His homosexual children (creations made in His image) would also prosper and even benefit from the same strength of monogamous unity with a partner to which they can also each cleave to in His grace, love, glory and reverence and go forth to spread His Word and enter into a righteous relationship with God in the same manner?

We all have a part to fulfill in God’s eternal plan, every single one of us, and I believe that… just as He said no master is any more important than the servant… no one person is any more (or less) important than another, regardless of their sexuality, political belief, religious belief, or station in life. Therefore, I believe we have all been made to minister His Word to every living creature in every corner of the world, to share our testimonies with others, to give continual and unending praise to God, to love one another as Jesus loved us, and in Jesus’ name we are to do good works and to pray for mercy, grace, healing, forgiveness, repentance, etc. for others and for ourselves – all to be done in, and through, the name of Jesus.

Some of the Christians I’ve met in my lifetime seem to miss this point all together; because they get more hung up on what their straight and gay friends do for an hour in their bedrooms, than what they do the other 23 hours of each day. From what I’ve seen of life, the acts of true love and intimacy are not exclusive feelings or gifts granted just to our heterosexual brothers and sisters in Christ, but to all children of God. I believe that all couples who in a committed, monogamous relationship need to express and share with one another their emotional love, physical intimacy, shared spirituality, and their devoted commitment to the prayer and praise of God in all that we each say, think, and do, and that we each accept Jesus as our one and only Lord and Saviour. All of this is part of a loving relationship with one another, and with God.

Please don’t misunderstand me, if the Bible states that sodomy is wrong, whether for my heterosexual friends or homosexual friends, then it must be wrong, regardless of whether some of us agree or disagree on the point. I’ve not studied the Bible in depth enough to know its points on acts of loving physical intimacy between two committed individuals. Likewise, where people can get married, I’ve come to believe that they should be married before becoming physically intimate, I’m just old-fashioned like that, but I’m also young enough at heart to know that this is a double standard used against gays and lesbians simply because they cannot marry first to make their union holy in the eyes of the church or our society. Should gays/lesbians be allowed to marry? Yes, I think so, because there are a lot of spiritual, social, and humanitarian needs that would be fulfilled under such a covenant in the eyes of God. Should it be called a marriage? No, I think “marriage” should remain a union between one man and one woman, but I think it should be called a Civil Union (or Unity Ceremony) and given the same legal and moral empowerment as any other marriage.

From what I’ve seen in my lifetime, I think our society and our social media networks only like to pay attention to the sensationalized side of life, whether it’s issues about heterosexuals or homosexuals. The news portrays all the bad and only a minute percent of the good. You’ll hear and see things like the Japan reactor incident, the white collar scandal, the drive-by shooting, the straight pedophile who abused his niece or nephew, the gay bar or Pride parade gone wild, etc. but you’ll rarely see stories about the 60-something lesbian couple who’ve been together for the past 45 years and are outstanding members of their church and community, or the single mother who donates her time at the local food kitchen twice a week to help repay what they did to help her get back on her own feet several years before… you get the idea.

I don’t know what God’s plan is, or what He truly views as inexcusable, and I doubt any of us do with any degree of true certainty. But I do know this, it all boils down to loving and respecting one another in all that we say and do, that we love each other as Jesus loved us and that we openly, freely, and willingly spread the Word of God in His name to everything everywhere, that we all may find peace and salvation through Jesus Christ and share eternity in Heaven with Him. Amen.

Thanks for listening, and for any comments you may wish to share or make. God Bless!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

RAM2,

Wow, you do have some big questions that I do not think I am qualified to answer. I know that Christ died for all of us. I know we are supposed to share the Gospel with those who do not know it or have not wanted it to hear it. I do not do this as often as I should, but I try to keep in the forefront of my mind, especially when meeting new people, that I may be the only "Christ" that they see. Sometimes I am a complete failure at that.

Regarding the young man I wrote about, I watched him grow up. He was always effeminate and played with the girls because he was rejected by most of the boys. He came from a very testosterone driven family - his father had three rough and rowdy brothers, all football players, his dad coached every little boys and middle school team there was; the boy was the oldest of three brothers, and his other two brothers are definitely cut from the same cloth as their father. Whenever the young man was 7 or 8, I remember talking to his father about spending as much time with him as possible. He did, but it was obvious his son was not the gifted athlete as the rest of the males in the family. He had natural musical and acting tendencies from the time I can remember. He tried out for everything at church and school and was usually the lead. His father treated him and supported him just like he did his other sons. Even though his father spent time with him and loved him, he still had the effeminate qualities. When he came out, it was devastating to his father. I told his father, "You have raised him with the Word of God. He has accepted Jesus. You do not know what the future holds for him nor what God's plan is. Do not turn your back on him now. You have been a good Christian father. You must continue to be a good Christian father. You do not want him to turn his back on Jesus because you are angry and frustrated with him because he is gay." His father, this great big testosterone driven man, cried. It was a very difficult time for them, but his father loves him unconditionally, now. God loves us unconditionally, and I am thankful everyday day for His Grace.

I think we are all a part of God's plan and that He knew us before we were ever born. He knows what the future is; we don't. He gave us free will. Freedom is a responsibility, not an excuse to do anything we want. I believe we must show those who are not believers the love placed in our hearts by Christ. It is an honor to be a child of God and an honor to be a servant to Christ. The Holy Spirit moves me to love others. It is not easy. I am a high school teacher, trust me. HA!

Christ would not turn away from a sinner - no He came and died for us sinners. He told us to "sin no more." We should tell others what we believe to be right and wrong, but only Christ can judge whether someone is condemned. I hope to plant many seeds, and even though I might not see the growth, I pray there will be growth in Christ.

I am sure this does not adequately help you at all with your questions. All I can say is we need to serve Christ, and He said what we do "to the least of these," His children (which is the category all fall into), that we do it to Him.

Satan is alive and well, so we do have our work cut out for us. I have the cleansing Blood of Christ on my side, though.

Take Care and God Bless.


sherrylou57 profile image

sherrylou57 5 years ago from Riverside

Hi Sholland, I am a Christian, Jesus, came to this earth and he died upon the cross and arose on the third day and resurrected up into heaven. He died for our sins, but we must repent for our sins. Jesus loves us all he hates the sin. We as a Christian do not judge the people who are sinners. We are here to tell them about the good news of Jesus and lead them to, Jesus. That is up to, Jesus. He will soon be coming back and then it will be over.


Michael 5 years ago

seems to me sodom and Gomorrah didn't fair too well. The words of the bible will judge and it says it is wrong. Woe unto those that call right wrong and wrong right and it says that too


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

SherryLou, You and I agree. :-) I could write a series of hubs about the end of the age and the proof we see just by turning on the tv. Thank you for commenting.

Michael, I didn't call it right or wrong. The hub is about unconditional love and making sure the gay community is not lost to Christ. Christians can plant the seeds, and Christ can produce the harvest. Thanks for commenting.

Take Care and God Bless!


Michael 5 years ago

I agree with you...ALL should have a chance to come to christ and repent and change. God bless


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Absolutely, Michael. God Bless you, too. Thanks for commenting.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

My dearest sister, I commend you! My head hurts after reading some of those comments. I believe you are absolutely right about almost everything you've said - in your hub and in your gracious response to the comments from other brothers and sisters in Christ who obviously believe quite differently than you and I do.

I will continue to try with everything I am to love unconditionally - that is what Jesus did, and that is what He has called me to do. And, you mentioned the thief on the cross - we may work our lives in God's vineyard, or work our whole lives at thievery, but ultimately, if we beg our Lord to forgive us and take us home, He will do so, no matter what.

As regards homosexuality, I don't believe a person has a "choice" about whether or not they are gay. They are or they are not. I do believe that chastity is a very important thing (sexual fidelity to God in our chosen state of life). But, again, it is ours to love as commanded - not to JUDGE.

I offer my love and prayers as you continue to help steer the young people of your church closer to Jesus. That's your mission there, and you seem to have it pretty well sewn up.

Peace, dear sister!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Mo-Chi,

Thanks so much for your comments that thrill me and comfort me. As Christians we are given the Great Commission to go into the world to spread the Gospel, Jesus commanded us to "Love one another." I am pretty sure He didn't add an "except..." in that commandment. How are we supposed to win others to Christ if we do not show Christ to them is what I ask of many who would rather compete to find more verses in the Bible about judging than loving?

God Bless you and keep you! Thanks for reading ALL of this. It means so much to me that you and a few others have. I don't think some who have commented read the hub, just the title, or they were sent here by someone just to vote me down. That is okay, though. As I said earlier, I might get worn out, but I won't get worn down. :-) I will always choose Christ, and it appears I am in good company with you as a sister in Christ.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

What kind and loving words...and you and I certainly seem to be kindred spirits in our interpretation of the Great Commission. I've always been of the understanding that to teach by example is the most effective method of getting any point across. It can be very difficult to preach Christ by your lifestyle though when so many of our brothers and sisters (not just those who don't believe) beat us down so often by preaching with words that are simply hateful and cruel. Continue to live your love, my dear one, and Christ will remain a beacon that shines brightly from your heart! :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Mo-Chi! Right back atcha! :-) We just need to stay the course.


d.william profile image

d.william 5 years ago from Somewhere in the south

Wonderful article. Your second paragraph says it all: "Children emulate their parents"; but they also emulate their religious teachers, school teachers, and their friends. The buck should stop with the parents, because they have the most influence on their children. Ignorance always begets ignorance.

YOU are what a true Christian is all about, and it is refreshing to know that you are there to counter some of that ignorance being fed into these young and very impressionable minds.

I recently read a book (and wrote a book report, of sorts on it today), and i found a couple of quotes that are apropos to this subject as well as others.

"He who would not forgive, must judge, for he must justify his failure to forgive"; and

"There is a very simple way to find the door to true forgiveness, and perceive it open wide in welcome. When you feel that you are tempted to accuse someone of "sin", in any form, do not allow your mind to dwell on what you THINK he did, for that is self deceptive. Ask instead: Would I accuse myself of doing this?"

The child receiving that abuse for being 'different' is the one to do the forgiving; and the accusers of perceived wrongs, need to be asking for forgiveness for their own actions, thoughts, and beliefs that in fact are only judgements they are making.

After reading all of the comments, i still find it unimaginable that there are so many people in this world with such narrow minded views on life itself. It must be a long, tedious, and lonely existence to limit ones entire mental focus on ancient words, that may or may not, have been translated accurately through several different languages. The best we can do, is live our own lives the way we see fit, and to keep our noses out of the private lives of others.

NO man shall judge another. That right belongs to the Creator alone. God bless you for writing this article.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks for your kind words, D. I am a firm believer in unconditional love because that is what Jesus taught. I do believe Christians are supposed to be narrow minded in the sense that we are supposed to follow the ways of Christ and not the world - which we all fall short. :-) I hope that makes sense. I know what you are talking about, though, and the quotes you found are perfect. The type of narrow mindedness that does not allow us to love and causes us to judge is what creates so much chaos in this world and makes all Christians look bad and hurts so many people.

Thanks, again, for stopping by!! Take care! :-)


psychicdog.net profile image

psychicdog.net 5 years ago

It amazes me that people still judge sexual orientation - do we judge a pansy because it is not a rose? Do we judge the color blue because it is not purple? We create huge problems for people who do no harm when we judge rather than accept their essential natures - whatever that be. The central message of the Bible for me has been LOVE and as you suggest what would our greatest role-model Jesus do is a great question to ask.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

I know what you mean, Psychidog! I know I need to take the plank out of my eye before I go pointing out the speck in others'. Thanks for dropping by! :-)


justateacher profile image

justateacher 5 years ago from Somewhere Over The Rainbow - Near Oz...

sholland 10 - While it took great courage for the young man to "come out of the closet" it also took great courage for you to write this hub and then time after time defend your reasons behind writing it...I cannot claim to know all of what is written in the Bible, not being a huge church-goer in my life, I applaud your knowledge of the Scriptures and your interpretations of the Bible

I also applaud the fact that, rather than blast those that do not agree with what you have written, you choose to gracefully debate the issue and "agree to disagree."

The young man you write about is lucky to have you in his life...


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

We should always stand for what we believe, which is not always easy. Plus, so many people interpret the Bible differently, which I believe is what God intended because we each have a different purpose, which also explains so many different denominations. I am not a Bible scholar, but the loud and clear message I receive from Christ is to love others unconditionally. He came to save the sinners, not the Pharisees who judged and condemned for their own self-rightgeous purposes. Thanks for dropping by!! :-)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 5 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

WHEW! My body hurts from all this reading, but I read every word......especially YOURS, which I happen to agree with 100%. I cannot quote the Bible. I cannot eloquently PREACH. However, I do know the Golden Rule and follow it as best and as closely as HUMANLY possible. When it is difficult (personally) to show love and tolerance, is when it is ever more necessary to offer. I, myself, was lead to our Savior by the example of a Christian couple years ago.....who had no idea that they had influenced me greatly. They were happy, loving, compassionate, giving and FORGIVING individulas who SHINED and stood out amongst the crowds. There was a visible PEACE in them...no judgemental behavior or comments, no finger pointing, fist slamming, damning to HELL garbage. They spoke with kindness and gentleness. They were vocal in their belief of the enormous power of prayer and salvation. All I know is, I wanted what they had. and I've never looked back.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Man, Fpherj, if you read all of this, you read the equivalent of a novella. Thank you so much! Your story is inspiration. I am so glad you followed a loving Christian into the faith for Christ and all the gifts He gives us. God Bless you and keep you! Again, I cannot express enough how much I appreciate you reading the hub and comments and sharing your beautiful testimony. Thanks for dropping by!!


Smokes Angel profile image

Smokes Angel 5 years ago from Broke Alabama

I once was one of those judgemental people or what they call a homophobe, but God had a plan for me. Over the years I became friends with gays and God saw to it that I saw them as people rather than a group. Yes, God distinctly says homosexuality is a sin but so is overeating, taking His name in vain, and watching tv that has way too much sexual overtone in it. I think Jesus would have looked at the judgemental Christians of today and would have said "Throw the first stone!" God hates the sin and LOVES THE SINNER!!!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Smokes Angel! Jesus came to the sinners, not the Pharisees. Thanks for your beautiful testimony. Unconditional love is what is going to draw others to Christ. We should put it all into God's hands, and love the sinner (as others have loved me and Christ loves me). The sin can go away, but the soul must be saved. Thanks for dropping by!! :-)


Steve Orion profile image

Steve Orion 5 years ago from Tampa, Florida

Interesting to see that so many Christians seems to pick and choose which parts of their religion to follow. "Well, I'm Christian but I'm ok with gays and science and people of other faith. I just disagree with them is all." A strange sort of tolerance in some cases, like a racist being ok with blacks that have a certain characteristic. No criticism to the author, just an observation. Good Hub and voted up!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Steve, my point in writing the hub was to say Christ loves all of us - He was hanging out with the tax collectors and prostitutes and probably homosexuals when He came to earth. He loved unconditionally without judgment. It is not about acceptance, but it is against judgment. I may agree to disagree with you ("you" in general sense), but I don't think you are damned to hell because I disagree. By disagreeing I am showing disapproval but not turning my back, especially if kindess and love are needed. I believe that all of us should try to live Christ-like lives, but there are going to be people like the thief on the cross. People have until their last breath to accept Christ. I think that is amazing. Thanks for dropping by and commenting! :-)


Steve Orion profile image

Steve Orion 5 years ago from Tampa, Florida

Good philosophy to live by! Just saying that the beliefs you hold, meaning the opinions you just expressed, are a sort of dissension from the general Christian faith. Many Christians aren't of the mindset to accept, or at least not cast out, anyone of a different view or lifestyle. Not enough Christians like you! If you are going to hold religious beliefs, at least you shouldn't cast judgement on others.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 5 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

I will do what I feel God is convicting me to do. I cannot answer for other Christians, but I know there are many out there doing good things and loving others the way Christ commanded. He will return to judge. I will leave it to Him. :-)

Take Care!


PDXKaraokeGuy profile image

PDXKaraokeGuy 4 years ago from Portland, Oregon

What a great hub. Up and shared.

Growing up in a Christian home, this is an issue I struggled with. Before my parents divorced, my mom taught me that homosexuality as the gravest sin one could commit. After my parents divorce3d, my mom taught me that divorce was the gravest sin that man could commit. Needless to, her interpretations of what is sinful and what is not sinful lost much, if not all of the credibility with me.

here's what i think. The Bible does list homosexuality as a sexual sin. Okay. it lists lots of things s sin. Jesus also commanded us to love one another and not to judge and to take the plank out of our own eyes before we took the log out of someone else's. While exhortation is taught in the Bible, it is never to be done with an arrogant, holier than thou attitude but, rather, one of love and with the intent to help the other person.

My sister in law is a lesbian. She is married to another woman and they have two beautiful children together. They both grew up in the church, but no longer go because the church shuns their lifestyle. This makes me sad. I've been shunned at church because of my tattoos. Church is for everyone. Jesus spent most of His time on earth with sinners and condemning the "righteous".

A year or so ago,I used the following for my facebook status: "I love living in the city with all my liberal, Jewish, Christian, gay, muslim, athiestic and transgender friend." One of my former friends, a girl from high school who is also dumber than a box of hammers (not because of this statement, though the statement that follows is certainly one bred from ignorance." said, and I quote directly here. "How can you live with such sinners and libtards?"

wow. She was not only asking how I, as a Christian could allow myself to be friends with people who weren't Christians, she was also equating liberalism with mental retardation. Really loving. Totally what Jesus would do. She is what is wrong with church and Christianity. She si the reason that those who are not Christians look at the church and view us as judgemental, ignorant, rubes.

It made me furious, aided, of course, by the fact that I have a mentally challenged nephew.

I loved this HUB. Thanks so much for sharing it.

I’m going to close by linking a couple of songs by Christian artists who address this very issue. I’ve included some of the lyrics below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9cdbFVk2dU

“he wants to know about Jesus/He came here with a friend/he’s been gay since he was thirteen and he hopes they’ll understand/ people talk about him/they say can’t you see your sin/He came here to worship Jesus/not be condemned/You better find some love/or you’re never gonna see him again”


Apryl Schwarz profile image

Apryl Schwarz 4 years ago from Nebraska

So amazing. You captured my own beliefs and opinions in this hub exactly. In the end, the only thing that we are called to do as Christians is LOVE. Not judge, not condemn, just love a person how they need it. I think there are many other Christians that are moving towards this philosophy, but like everything it will take time for us to get it right.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

PDXKaraoke, thanks for your thoughtful response. I feel that in order for others to see the Jesus in us that we should try to love unconditionally - gay, straight, liberal, conservative, etc. We all live with sin in our lives, but it is up to God to judge us. If we see someone doing something wrong, we should speak up. I think we should try to get to know each other in order to help rather than condemn (condemning is not in our job description from God). I will watch your video - thanks for sharing it with me. I have another hub with a video of Kathy Troccoli singing "Love One Another" that I think captures the Jesus-like love we are supposed to be sharing with the world.

Thanks for dropping by!! I appreciate your thoughts and comments on this important subject.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Apryl, thanks for commenting. I think we each have a purpose, and as far as "getting it right," I am definitely a work in progress. LOL I doubt I will ever get it right, but I know Christ loves me anyway. His unconditional love is not a reason for me to go wild, but it is a great comfort. :-)

Thanks for dropping by!


Apryl Schwarz profile image

Apryl Schwarz 4 years ago from Nebraska

Work in progress, as are we all. :)


PDXKaraokeGuy profile image

PDXKaraokeGuy 4 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Of course, Susan.

You've inspired me. I'm going to blog about this on my other blog and link back to this one. Maybe we could crosslink each other?


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, PDXKaraoke! My blog is only my hub links, but I will be more than happy to share your blog link on Tumblr, Reddit (if they let me on), StumbleUpon, and Digg. :-) I will go to your profile and check out your blog. I am humbled that you feel inspired by something I have written. Thank you!


hush4444 profile image

hush4444 4 years ago from Hawaii

I really admire you for writing this hub. I cannot believe we Americans are still having an argument about whether everyone is equal. Thank you for shedding light on the subject from a Christian point of view.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Hush! All I know is that Christ came because God loves all of us without condition.

Thanks for dropping by!


Hillbilly Zen profile image

Hillbilly Zen 4 years ago from Kentucky

Ms. sholland - churchgoers like PlanksandNails are the reason people like me don't go to church. True Christians like you are the reason we continue to hope that someday we will.

Voted up and awesome.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Hillbilly Zen, I do understand how you feel about those Christians who judge, but do not let them keep you away from the much higher mission of Christ. There are many good churches out there, and there are always going to be people we do not agree with. Keep your faith and know God loves all of us; we need to only accept His Son. :-)

Thanks for dropping by!


ytsenoh profile image

ytsenoh 4 years ago from Louisiana, Idaho, Kauai, Nebraska, South Dakota, Missouri

sholland10, thank you for writing this hub because it addresses an important subject. I believe somewhere in the Bible, it states that God is not a respecter of persons and the way I interpret that phrase is another definition of unconditional love for all. I believe we all interepret the Bible to our own liking. I also believe it's so easy to be judgmental or unkind and takes a very big heart to simply treat everyone the same. As a parent, you want to be a great example for your children, so you teach them to be kind to everyone. I have a lot of friends who are straight, gay, or lesbian and I have learned a lot about the way people judge. Even if you're straight, people can be pretty harsh just by the clothes you wear. I believe that each individual has a set of emotions which are important to him or her. We judge something every day, whether it's ourselves, bad traffic, bad weather, bad days, or other people. Remember the kindergarten lesson, "if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all." Thumbs up on your hub.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Ytsenoh, you and I feel the same. God has given each of us a purpose. Whether we listen to Him or to our own self rightgeous conscience depends on us because He gave free will too. Thanks so much for reading!!

Thanks for dropping by!! :-)


dejahoo profile image

dejahoo 4 years ago from Georgetown, TX

One scripture comes to mind that is at the end of the Bible that everyone should be familiar to help you solve the issue. Remember, these are Christ's own words recorded by John.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Now, if you know the meaning of dogs in this passage then you have your answer no matter how you personally feel. I know it is a touchy subject, but you have to depend upon God's word for final authority.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Dejhoo,

I do depend upon God's word for what I believe. I appreciate your comments.

Thanks for dropping by!!


Tricia Ward profile image

Tricia Ward 4 years ago from Scotland

Christians get it wrong too at times. What you have said is good. I went to Uni and a lesbian friend in my class did not tell me for ages about her lifestyle because she had had a "christian" flat mate that cut her off when she had found out.. and was scared stiff I would do the same. God is a God of love and Jesus did not spend lots of time with the religious folk he spent time with the people who were social outcasts and showed them love.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Tricia, yes, it is true that some Christians get it wrong, too. And, I think we should think about the point you made, which is that Christ came to those people who the religious people/Pharisees rejected. Beware the self-righteous and look to the God-righteous. Christ loves unconditionally. It is up to us as to whether we accept or reject Him. It is also up to us as to whether we bring people to Him or push them away. Those who judge are pushing people away from Christ. But Christ's unconditional love never fails to be there for all of us.

Thanks for dropping by! :-)


Sharyn's Slant profile image

Sharyn's Slant 4 years ago from Northeast Ohio USA

Susan,

This is an AWESOME hub. I wish many others would read it. It may be a controversial subject but the way you approach it and keep your integrity throughout the many comments is truly inspiring. I've gained even more respect for you my friend!

Sharyn


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Sharyn! As a Christian, I am a firm believer in unconditional love and "judge not lest ye be judged." I truly appreciate your kind words and appreciate you taking the time to read the hub and the comments!!

Susan :-)


Jackie Lynnley profile image

Jackie Lynnley 4 years ago from The Beautiful South

All we need do is read the word of God to know what Jesus and/or God would do. As Christians we are not the judges, God left instructions and a road map, what we think doesn't really matter. It is what it is.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Jackie! I agree with you. We have our instructions and our map to follow. While all of us have the basic instructions, I believe we each have individual instructions and maps, too.

Thanks for dropping by, reading, and commenting!! :-)


CMerritt profile image

CMerritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana

I'm just jumping in here,

My 2 cents is this.....I think God and the Bible is very clear about sexual immorality...clearly wrong. That covers more than gays, but those who cheat on their spouses...

But, more importantly, as a Christian we must have the fruit of the spirit....being; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control....

That leaves NO room for hating or judging.

I do not condone homosexuality, but I do not have any hatred toward them, NONE.

I have my OWN sins to worry about, let alone if others are good. God will make those decisions.

I think you said it best with "“All fall short of the glory of God.” Our youth, and especially, many of our adult population, need to remember that compassion and love do not come with conditions."

Excellent hub,

Chris


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Chris! I am definitely not one to judge for the exact reason you gave - I have sins of my own. God will judge me and all. I just hope I am doing what He wants by spreading Christ's command to "Love One Another." We also agree that there should be no conditions in our love to others.

Thanks so much for dropping by, reading, and commenting. I really appreciate what you had to add. :-)


Rastamermaid profile image

Rastamermaid 4 years ago from Universe

Great hub,very informative and full of compassion.

We all have to deal with our own happiness,religions and beliefs.

I was raised that it takes a man and a woman to make a child,God made it that way for a reason,that's His plan.We all know that same-sex lifestyles can't achieve this ultimate goal.

Does that mean they shouldn't be happy,be judged,taunted or ridiculed because of it?

Do we ridcule people about their politcial choices? No,because you know it's their right.

It's everyone's right to be happy,to love and to be loved.

It's just their orientation sexually,which last time I checked took place in the bedroom,when I wouldn't be with them anyway. Everything else is pretty much the same.

We all breathe,bleed,walk,talk,sleep and crap the same.We are all people that want to be loved.

Voted up!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Rastamermaid! You are right - we are all human with good and bad. It would be great if we weren't taunted by others, but as you know, there are some people who are not happy unless they are taunting or stirring the pot in order to make "THEIR" point. We have to do what is right. For me, that is trying to love unconditionally as Christ told us to do. :-)

Thanks for dropping by, reading, commenting and voting! I really appreciate your input! :-)


mommygonebonkers profile image

mommygonebonkers 4 years ago

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in on this controversial subject :o)

I wholeheartedly and completely agree that homosexuals should be treated with respect and love NOT hate.

I also agree that "gay" and "lesbian" should not define who they are.

As for is it right or wrong...I still say wrong

There was one comment in here somewhere, while the tone was spiteful, I do agree with a couple points...

There have been studies that show pedophilia may be programmed in the genes...are we someday going to accept this because they were born that way? I most certainly hope not!

I had a very close gay friend and he knew exactly where I stood and where I believe God stands on the matter, but he also knew that God loves him and I love him and it didn't affect my friendship or opinion of him.

Like you said, we all sin, where he is indulging his homosexual tendencies, I indulge in gossip and lies other sins.

Should a gay couple be turned away at the church doors, no way! How does that show Christ's love and compassion? Everyone would be turned away, because we all sin.

I also don't want to downplay the awful struggle to have homosexual tendencies if you don't want them. I don't believe it's a simple "choice", you can't wake up one day and say I don't want to be attracted to him/her anymore...it's a lifelong struggle that only Christ can help with.

I'll stop rambling now!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

MommyGoneBonkers, it was a wonderful "rambling"!! Thanks so much for giving a complete explanation of what you believe. :-) We do see right and wrong in the world and have a right to say what is right and wrong, but I wanted to be clear in the hub that it is God's ultimate judgment. If a gay person can minister to others with the Spirit leading them, that would be wonderful. Gay people have an uphill struggle with Christianity because so many place themselves as judge. You and I will befriend gays for the people they are inside and love them for who they are and not their sexual orientation. Some Christians will simply write them off, and I think that is wrong.

Thanks for dropping by, reading, and your great comment!! :-)


ithabise profile image

ithabise 4 years ago from Winston-Salem, NC

Sholland, I also often find myself going against the current of my fellow Christians on this topic. Sometimes we need to turn the scenario of Jesus being so accepting of others and view it--really see it--as the answer to the question "What made Jesus so inviting to those 'others' no one else cared for?" Something in his person and spiritual character made all the difference in other people.

I'm of the opinion that being homosexual (I have other thoughts on the term 'gay') may not be a choice. Sexual orientation may not be a choice; sexual behavior IS. Ultimately, what we choose to feed ourselves is the choice. As with any person who attempts to live a Christian life, we must always be swimming against the current of sin, regardless of what that sin is. Only when we embrace it do we truly choose.

So there may be Christians in a real struggle against all sorts of things, and are; but this is what God's grace is for. God doesn't condemn us for having to struggle. He empowers us to cast the yoke off of us; and that we must do until we see his face. We are condemned only in the sin (for embracing - John 3:18). Remember, Paul spoke to his readers with these words: "And such were some of you" (1 Cor. 6:11)...and I'll add: such still we are.

A WONDERFUL article so very much needing to be said and heard, from pulpits even. Thank you. Continue ministering God's healing grace.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Ithabise, very well stated. We are all sinners. It is up to God to forgive us, which as the Ultimate Parent, He loves and forgives us. Christ came to save, not condemn. He did say upon His return, He would come back to judge. I hope I am able to show Him that I did follow His commandment to give unconditional love in the form of compassion to others. You might be surprised to know that some of the most strict ministers who have preached against homosexuals (and other sins) are starting to say, "Love those who do things you loathe because Christ does." I have been shocked to hear that at times, but I am glad it is being said. Thank you so much for your well-thought-out comment. And to you I say the same. Continue ministering God's healing grace. Now is not the time for Christians to be scaring others away or making others so angry they do not want to see the Truth. Take care!


maewallace22 profile image

maewallace22 4 years ago

Satan is very smart and very busy. It seems like homosexuality is the new fad. People say Christian use the bible more or less to there benefit. My thing is either you believe or you don't, there is no in between. We are all sinners , but that doesn't mean we have to practice it and make it a part of our everyday lives. I do know gay people, women and men. A very good friend of mines who passed away a year ago was openly gay. I loved him much and I miss him, but he always knew that I was against gay marriage and homosexuality. If homosexuality had been ok, then wether or not had God created us, we would all have been created the same. Stop trying to turn wrong into right. It is what it is!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Mae. I am not even addressing whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I am addressing unconditional love that Christians should show like Christ did. You loved your friend and by doing so, you may have been the only "Jesus" he saw. You may have helped save him. We cannot change people, only God can do that and we can be His instrument. We were commanded to love people even if we don't like what they do.

I appreciate your comment. Thanks for dropping by.


VeronicaFarkas profile image

VeronicaFarkas 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

I absolutely agree with you.

It irks me that Christians seem to be the first to judge when something happens that they do not quite agree with. I say this from my own experience. I don't mean to stereotype, and I don't mean to offend Christians. I was raised Catholic, and believe in God.

I am going through something similar with my own family. It is difficult to say something that Christians may not want to hear (something that goes against typical beliefs), and then, to feel badly about saying it is another thing. To live in fear of others - to be judged by the ones whom preach love and acceptance - is not what God would want.

I feel badly for the student in your hub. I hope that he's able to find his comfort zone, and good, solid support. Being isolated helps no one. People should be open to asking questions and trying to understand the situation. The girl whom said that she'd pray for him - I feel as though that's a perfectly suitable response as well - put it in God's hands, not each others. After all, He's the one whose opinion matters in the end, right? =]

Sorry I ranted a bit. You're a wonderful teacher and woman to care so much! =]


American View profile image

American View 4 years ago from Plano, Texas

I will honestly say about half way through the comments I passed on the rest. I do not believe, but you will find no one that has more respect for those who have faith than me. I have 3 problems with religion,I will only speak of one. Just as I have a problem with politicians telling what I can do and not do, I have the same problem with religion. One cannot help what the heart tells them. Love is more than following the teachings of a priest, reverend, or rabbi. People just do not say "oh today I will become gay". It happens just like it did for me. We walk down the street and BAM!! there is the person you want to be with. Intolerance, bashing and other ignorant behavior is just ridiculous, how dare they tell anyone how to live. Tell them how to live and see what happens. Great hub, well presented, well thought out. Up Awesome and across the board.


alocsin profile image

alocsin 4 years ago from Orange County, CA

Can't believe I haven't seen this before. Wee-thought out writing proving that it is possible to be both Christian and gay-supportive. Voting this Up and Interesting.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Veronica, you aren't ranting. Just saying what you feel. Your comment goes along with what the hub was trying to say. Even if you disagreed with me, it would be okay. I found the judging and speaking out against what Christ said about unconditional love shocking.

Thanks for taking the time to read the hub. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

American View, the problem I had with some of the comments was the people who made them missed the point of the hub, which is Christians need to show unconditional love as Christ did. I had a hard time getting through some of the comments. One guy commented months later to direct me to another hub. He wanted me to say he was right. That seemed to be all he cared about - not the Christian message that was being sent through the hub. His way was judgment, and I leave that to God. It is one thing to say what is right and wrong, but quite another to judge.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read. I hope your ill-wishing commentators are able to stick with the topic and get off their high horse. :-)

@Veronica - I forgot to tell you the young man has gone on to be quite the success. I am very happy for him. He still holds onto his Christian beliefs, too. I am so glad his family was supportive. :-)


VeronicaFarkas profile image

VeronicaFarkas 4 years ago from Ohio, USA

Great! I'm so glad to hear that! =]


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Yes, Alocsin, I believe it is possible, too. So many people don't want to see the plank in their own eye when they are pointing out a speck in another's.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and thanks for the votes. :-)


ithabise profile image

ithabise 4 years ago from Winston-Salem, NC

Sholland, whenever you get some free time I encourage you to read this link start-to-finish. It is eye-opening (even the comments) and very relevant to your article: http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/the-struggles...


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks for sharing it Ithabise. An interesting article! :-)


LindaSmith1 profile image

LindaSmith1 4 years ago from USA

I should remind the good Christians who quickly use scripture to back up beliefs, another line from Christ himself: He who is without sin, cast the first stone.


SJmorningsun25 4 years ago

sholland10: This is a beautiful Hub. I was going to read through all the comments, but I'd still be here tomorrow! :-) Thank you for being brave enough to write this article, despite some of the less-than-loving comments. I think there are many people in the so-called "church" today who will be very surprised at who we will see in heaven, having spent all their earthly energy on judging others instead of loving them. Jesus judged the judges much more harshly than he ever did the sinners--we should take that example! God bless you for your difficult, but important, stand. Voted up and all but funny. Thanks for sharing!


Lord De Cross profile image

Lord De Cross 4 years ago

Surely, you will get polarized and antagonism from commenters, but the true will set you..free! I have friends from all sexual status and all I can say is that we all are human beings. Thanks for putting this hub together Susan..!

LORD


Jennifer Essary profile image

Jennifer Essary 4 years ago from Idaho

I think a lot of the judgement stems from lack of education about the human body. So many people assume homosexuality is a choice although scientific evidence proves otherwise. If a person can be born with an extra finger or missing an arm why can't people make the leap to understand brain chemistry. We've all witnessed women go through hormonal fluctuations and kids go through the teenage years and the affects it has on their personality. If a person isn't getting the right chemicals in the right places at the right time it is normal to be homosexual. In the end I don't believe there is a God out there who would teach people to look down upon others and judge them. Sadly there are Christians who do so I think they should question their teaching. There are nearly 27,000 forms of Christianity in the world based upon one book. It is man's interpretation of the book not God's will.


cheatlierepeat profile image

cheatlierepeat 4 years ago from Canada

I wrote a hub on the situation between One Million Moms and Ellen DeGeneres, I received countless emails calling me a sinner and other unmentionables for supporting Ellen and her perverted lifestyle. I have had to delete several comments on the actual hub itself and believe I only left a few opinions remaining.

I'm straight but I dont look at anyone any differently because of whom they choose to love. It's sad that people still think this way, maybe not so much that they think it, but how they choose to mask love and morals by spewing so much hatred.


Indigital 4 years ago

I'm glad you're one of the few that are not completely against anything that isn't written in Bible. We need more people like you, who can choose their religion but also use common sense once in a while to find the solution.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

LindaSmith1, yes, I agree. Christ taught unconditional love. I am thankful for that Grace. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank You, SJ! Yes, the Pharisees were the ones Christ judged and still will. I do believe we will be surprised when we get to Heaven. The Bible states that, and Christ said He would say, "I do not know you." That would be horrible.

Thanks for the votes. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Lord de Cross! Yes, the Truth will set us free. I believe in being Christ-like, and my Jesus loves all. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Jennifer, I do believe the Bible to be God-inspired, but I also see those who feel it is their "duty" to put themselves in the place of God. I do not believe that way. My hub was meant to be about Christ's unconditional love through us and how some don't get it. Some people have posted pure judgment. I think we can say what is right or wrong, but I do not believe that gives us the right to say who is saved or condemned. Only God knows that. I appreciate you dropping by and commenting. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Cheatlierepeat, I am sure you did get a lot of negative input on your hub. I am fine with agreeing to disagree, but I want people to stick to the subject rather than going on a tangent. I bet you saw a lot of tangents, too. I was new to HP when I published this, and I didn't delete some that I should have. I only hope that I handled it well. That is all we can do. The Bible says hating ones brother is the same as murder - I believe that. People just don't know what they do when they sling the word "hate" around. Good luck with your hub. Stay on topic and delete those who don't (that was my lesson learned on this one). I appreciate your comments. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Indigital, I hope it is the Love of Christ working through me, rather than my own choosing. It's all about Christ's unconditional love, and some people in much earlier comments turned it into a way to bash homosexuality and missed the point of the hub. I believe in the Bible literally and symbolically. Two things I know with certainty from the Bible are the Golden Rule of LOVE one another and the warning to judge not lest ye be judged - both came from Christ. :-) I appreciate your comments! :-)


Moms-Secret profile image

Moms-Secret 4 years ago from Central Florida

excellent...


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Mom's Secret! Thanks for dropping by and reading. :-)


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Shalom Sholland10 and those who may read:

Please let me share my testimony very briefly. I am a child of the LIVING "GOD" I now prefer to call Father, Elohim, ElShaddai or another 'name' that to me depicts the character I am coming to understand HE IS revealing to me.

During childhood I was indoctrinated with Roman (Catholic) beliefs and then it was if you dare enter the doors of another church you will go to hell. Because my parents did not know the love of our Father, they also did not know how to give their frustrations up to HIM and instead took them out on their children of whom I am the oldest of four girls. This caused me to develop a self hatred and depression.

This caused me to fall prey to a male that knew how to recognize and seduce very lonely deeply hurting women and use them for his own sense of manliness. What has all this to do with the subject at hand?

My image of a father was of an absent, weak yet cruel and angry judge I could not please---this made me susceptible to being seduced. My view of "God" was obsucred, screwed up to say the very least. I was in bondage to this sexual entanglement for many, many years even after I came to Christ and began my journey as a "Christian."

NOW I know our Father as a truly forgiving, loving, patient, long-suffering, kind, but NOT indulgent Father WHO healed all my hurts, delivered me from the sexual bondage (the emotional bonds created with another terribly insecure and deeply lonely emotionally cut-off from himself person).

A person that has a strong desire for relationship with the same sex is cut off from their own self and from either the masculine or feminine in themselves and is looking for the missing part of himself or herself that ONLY the Father is able to restore them to when they come to see within themselves that image more clearly.

I was so attracted to and in desperate need of the tender affections this man used to attract and seduce me that I could not see within myself because it had never had the chance to develop. God has since reconnected me to develop that part of me that never had the chance during childhood.

I have a son who is the most wonderful son for me. He is convinced that he is more attracted to males than to females and he is searching for the father his father never was and also for that part in him--the masculine part that he never had modeled correctly for him.

As far as the young man you speak about--when he begins to see himself in the Father's eyes and develops the 'lost' part of himself, he will no long be strongly attracted to males to 'feel a false sense of wholeness' he doesn't 'feel' now. I believe that is a word from our Father in heaven for him. I have not written this post lightly but have prayed over it and will be praying for our Father, by HIS Spirit and HIS Blood to heal the young man and bring forth HIS IMAGE in him in TRUTH.

Your perspective is beautifully expressed and we do need to learn to give unconditional love and let 'God' heal, restore and bring souls to HIM through us. FIRST we have to come to KNOW Father's unconditional love for ourselves and that is impossible in 'religious settings'

I found HIS love on my face crying out to HIM to heal me, to restore me, and to reveal HIMSELF TO me as HE TRULY IS. Thank you for your insights. Apparently you have also come to KNOW His love and long-suffering toward yourself and how sinful you were as we all are. The closer one get to GOD, the more HE reveals of our own unrighteousness so WE ARE ABLE TO CONFESS OUR SINS TO HIM and be cleansed. Then we will see Him and others much more clearly and be able to give away what we HAVE.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Shalah, thank you for sharing your testimony. :-) I cannot really add to it. I can only tell you what you already know about your son - he is much more than his sexual orientation. Pray for him and love him, just like you would any of your other children. Being gay is not an easy life, and neither is being a Christian. The important thing is that he keep his faith and see unconditional love from you. God will guide him. There is a plan for each of us, and God is in control. Many people try to "change" gays, which causes them to rebel against God and faith in Christ. That is exactly what we do not want. Thanks for dropping by! :-)


Keri Summers profile image

Keri Summers 4 years ago from West of England

I don't think I've ever seen so many comments on a Hub! Congrats on getting people talking about a really important subject - acceptance is so important, and to think that anyone would be rejected by their own family and/or community for just being who they are (or as you rightly point out, for just one aspect of their identity) is heartbreaking. Up & awesome.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Keri. You and I are on the same page. Christ's unconditional love is an important topic. He never said, "Love others, except 'this group or these groups of people'." Even if you do not approve of a part of a person's identity, we should be cognizant of the many of facets of the person. If you cannot do that, you should remember that Christ told us to love our enemies, too. (All "you" comments are for the general "you.")

Thank you for dropping by, commenting, and voting. :-)


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Shalom Sholland10,

Great grace and peace be to you from OUR KING and only Master, Yeshua HA MAshiach. Have you never read I Corinthians 5: 11 and II Thessalonians 3: 14?


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Shalom Sholland10,

Are you saying that we as believers in Yeshua (Jesus) are called to support homosexuals' rights to be homosexual. I think that is the true question because when you say love and accept all parts of the person, that is what I hear.

And that is NOT what Yeshua means by love.

Homosexuality is a sin. Sin means to miss the mark. All have sinned (missed the mark) and fallen short of the glory of God. However, we are admonished in scripture to not give ourselves over to sin.

A person may be in bondage to sin and need a lot of extra prayer and even fasting to be set free. And if a person is not imaging the Father rightly, needs to seek to KNOW Him as He truly is.

To support someone in their sin, is a perversion of the true gospel of healing and deliverance. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of our YAH (God)/ Creator.

When we have unmet needs, a lack of affirmation of who we truly are (God did NOT make anyone homosexual--living in a corrupted world distorts our views of God, self and others) we seek affirmation in the wrong ways and wrong places. NO, we cannot change others. And yes, we must give unconditional love, not based on a person's behavior. (But impossible unless the power of the Spirit is truly alive within.) But we MUST also pray that that same Spirit will illumine their darkness, reveal the truth to them, heal the soul wounds that cause anyone to seek solace in anything or anyone less than the ONE TRUE YAHVEH!

Speaking the truth in love is more difficult than affirming one in their sin. My son knows I do not approve of his choice of lifestyle. Ephes. says Your were once darkness, but are now children of light. This shows that we were NOT made the way we "are" by God, but are called to be transformed by the renewing of our minds in HIS word. Romans 12: 1, 2

The church seeks to make us comfortable in our condition. But God calls us to come up higher and closer to HIM, and when we do, He exposes our sin (where we are missing the mark) and when we confess our sin to HIM), He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9

It is and it isn't really 'hard' to be a Christian. It is unless you truly seek to KNOW the Living God as Father and know that HE shields you from all attacks when you truly surrender completely to HIM, and HE possesses your heart. But if you're merely trying to be a nominal Christian and go with the flow, they it is hard.

Yeshua is our comfort, our true Peace, our Joy, and our soon coming Redeemer KING! He is a healer and a deliverer. What does He deliver from? False and erroneous beliefs and bondage and slavery to the sins or lusts of the flesh and of the mind and emotions. And that is what those that are bound by lusting after others of the same sex are bound. Yeshua came to set us all free from our sins, not to make us comfy cozy in them. It is a great lie and deception perpetrated by the enemy wanting to steal the real Blessings the Father has prepared for them. Eye has not seen nor ear heard what the Father has prepared for them that love (cling to, pursue after, obey) Him.

They that sow to the flesh (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, gluttony etc) shall of the flesh reap corruption or destruction (it's a consequence, and a natural law of sowing and reaping)

They that sow to the Spirit shall reap the rewards of EVERLASTING LIFE of truly knowing the Father, His love, His protection, healing grace and mercy and deliverance from self imposed imprisonment to corrupted desires. IT is not their fault that this bondage came on them! But in no way did the Creator make homosexuals desire the same sex. it is contrary to all His teachings and instructions. HE does not condemn us for our missing the mark, but HE will deliver when we go to Him with all our hearts.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Shalah, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. We have had a death in our family, and I have not been able to respond to all the comments.

Please reread the hub. It is about Christ's unconditional love, and it does say we all sin and fall short of the Glory of God.

You speak freely of knowing what God did or did not do. I would not feel worthy to put myself in His "shoes." He loves all of us and sees us for what we are.

We need to show the Fruits of the Spirit to everyone. God will take care of whatever changes He wants to make in each of us who allow Him in. I am saying we should not be a stumbling block to anyone by turning them away from Christ with our human judgments.

Thank you for your comments, but I do feel you need to reread the hub. It seems that all you saw was "homosexuality," but you did not see anything else surrounding the situation. Would you have reacted the same if I had written about helping a promiscuous young girl? There are sins in every person. Christ's love must shine through us - that is our commission. It is up to Him to change the person, but it may or may not happen in the way we would think because we are not God. We do not know what purpose or plan He has in mind for each of us. Life lessons are learned through hardships. Take Care.


Steve Essary profile image

Steve Essary 4 years ago from Johnston City, Illinois

Excellent blog!!!

I used to subscribe to traditional Christian teaching and I looked down on homosexuals and was convinced that they would burn in Hell just as a lot of people. I now see the message of Jesus in a whole new way.

Whether or not homosexuality is a sin is irrelevant!!! The point of the Law (which defines sin) is that we ALL fall short!!! This Law wasn't written for us to live UP to at all!!! How can I say that??? Because it is IMPOSSIBLE!!! Many try, but ALL fail!!! The Law is merely a stumbling block for the self-righteous because you simply CANNOT point at someone and accuse them of being a sinner when you still break the Law EVERY DAY!!!

The message of Jesus is simple!!! God loves us ALL and sent Jesus to take upon Himself our punishment!!! The end result is the redemption of the World!!! God reconciled the world to Himself by forgiving us ALL of our shortcomings!!!

"But only for those who ask!!!", I can hear someone thinking!!!

I no longer agree!!!

According to Jesus in Matthew 5, we are to 1. turn the other cheek (ultimate instantaneous forgiveness) 2. Love our enemies 3. Bless those who curse us 4. Greet EVERYONE the SAME!!! 5. Forgive EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT!!! and He finishes the chapter by saying 6. Be perfect like God

This tells me that we do not understand God at all!!! Why would God ask us to forgive everyone if He only forgives those who ask? Why would He say Love our enemies if He burns His? Why would He say for us to Bless those who curse us if He burns those who curse Him? and why would He say "turn the other cheek" if He doesn't do the same???

Jesus didn't die for the recognition and I now believe that God is secure enough in His Godliness to Love and ACCEPT EVERYONE even if He gets NOTHING in return!!!

The Bible is a message about God's Love for us!!! It is NOT an instruction manual to show us How God would prefer we Love Him!!!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Steve, I do think we should love one another no matter what. I also believe Christian behavior should draw people to the faith, rather than turn them away. I do believe God gave us free will and the power to either choose Christ or not. In this day and age, I fear for those who do not choose Him, and hope Christians are reaching as many as possible so we can experience eternity.

Thanks for your comment. :-)

Thanks for


ithabise profile image

ithabise 4 years ago from Winston-Salem, NC

Sholland, this is a hot hub! (lol)


Steve Essary profile image

Steve Essary 4 years ago from Johnston City, Illinois

Have you ever considered the possiblity that Jesus has already "saved" the World and that what the Bible means by "salvation" is simply the understanding of what Jesus already did? and that the "torture" of hell is simply a metaphor for the torture of trying to get to God by our own works of obedience to the Law... the IMPOSSIBLE law... I would love to recommend a book to you, but I wrote it, so I won't spam the title on your blog without your permission to do so... :)


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Sholland, Thank you for opening this dialogue. Yeshua gave His life to redeem us from the power of sin! It is not about a religion, but about developing close, and intimate relationship with our Redeemer King and true Father, "God" in the Spirit that affects our souls and entire beings. Life is in the Spirit.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

@ ithabise, yes, it is. LOL

@ Steve, thank you for your comment and offer. I am pretty grounded in what I believe. While I do believe Christ came to save the world, it is an individual decision to accept Christ. The world is not saved unless the people accept Christ. I believe in hell and that Satan is real. I read the Bible understanding parts are literal and parts are symbolic (the parables). So, I guess I am narrow-minded in my beliefs, but it works for me. :-)

@ Shalah, thank you. :-)


freemarketingnow profile image

freemarketingnow 4 years ago from California

We shouldn't hate murderers. Just because a person sins doesn't mean we don't love them. Jesus spent a lot of time with the marginalized and low life of society. That said, murder is wrong. I think homosexuality is defined in the Bible as a sin. As for the Bible not saying anything about that, I'm just not sure if you're reading the same Bible.

1 Corinthians 16:9-10

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Freemarketingnow, I said that the Commandments and Christ never spoke against homosexuality, except Christ did say the Sodomites (homosexuals) have a better chance of going to Heaven than the Pharisees (people who judge) do. To me, that says we should give unconditional love and not judge, which is the main idea throughout the hub. If we stay in sin and reject Christ, we will not go to Heaven. All of us fall short and sin, even as Christians. We should not set ourselves up for sin, but our commission from Christ is to spread the Good News, not tell a person, "You have no hope. You are going to hell." Who would want to follow us in our love for Christ if that is how we handled other people who were unbelievers? Many homosexuals face this judgment everyday. They want nothing to do with Christianity. I believe that it is wrong to judge and a shame for those on the receiving end who are not able to understand the joy we have in Christ.

Once homosexuals comes to Christ, they may minister to others that a straight Christian could not get close to. I leave it to God to change them if that is His will, but that is beyond my power. I just want them to know the love of Christ and let the Spirit move them to do what is God's destiny for them.


Steve Essary profile image

Steve Essary 4 years ago from Johnston City, Illinois

I understand being "grounded" but until we are like God (who doesn't change) we must be willing to at least EXAMINE new ideas!!! I won't push the issue because I LOVE the fact that you are at least striving towards Love and Acceptance... But I will tell you (coming from a former traditional Christian) there is more to the story!!! Again... excellent blog!!!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

As children of God, we always grow. Like our own children, each is different with different gifts. I have always practiced love and tolerance, but I do believe Christ when He said, "Narrow is the way" -- meaning that we each must believe in Him. God gave us free will and a few commandments and one requirement - to believe in His Son(everything will fall in place if we do as God asks, which is my faith). I will not budge on that one. If people believe I am narrow-minded, so be it. I want to please God, not the masses. :-) Interesting discussion with you. Take care!


Shiningstar4u2c profile image

Shiningstar4u2c 4 years ago from Hilton Head Island

Wow! I am sure whatever I could say has already been said in one way or another. I know Sodomy is a Sin and is a filthy low down degrading perverted way of life. God burned two huge cities because of this very thing and those cities were in the millions of people. it is also said in Pauls writings that it is an abomination and also a sign from God of the last days. Good common sense tells you it is wrong and those people are very sick in their heads and hearts and a demon from hell has them bound and only in Christ can they be delivered! I will speak no more of it as I have said my peace.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

We all have our demons to deal with. Everyone deserves a chance to know Christ. We will have to agree to disagree on your harsh words about homosexuals being sick in the head and heart. There are many people who are good people who simply don't believe in Him. Maybe it is because they were treated with harsh words and judgment. No, there is nothing you can add that has not already been said before. I hope you actually read the hub - it was about Christ's unconditional love and our commission to share it, even with homosexuals.


Joshua Kell profile image

Joshua Kell 4 years ago from Arizona

Just because a human being thinks God is a certain way; this does not make Him become what humans think.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Joshua, I agree. Thanks for dropping by! :-)


gail641 profile image

gail641 4 years ago from Mason City

I agree with you, too. I agree that Christ's love is unconditional. I believe that all people should be treated right and with respect. People who are nasty and judgemental, should never be judging anyone ever. Really great hub! I voted Up.^^^


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Gail! You are right, we shouldn't judge. I cannot understand people who are mean to others for any reason. I appreciate your comment.

Thank you for dropping by! :-)


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California)

There is a lot of "lack of knowledge" in this hub, and in the comments thread.

First, homosexuality is clearly an abomination, and brings the wrath of God. Scripture plainly warns that those who hang around with wicked men become wicked themselves. We are also told that speaking in agreement with sin makes the speaker co-guilty, as does silently standing by while sin goes on.

Will homosexuals enter Heaven? There are many arguments about what is said in the middle of the Bible, so let us skip to the end:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In the NIV, the word "abominable" is translated as "sexually immoral". This then includes homosexuals, adulterers, NAMBLA, and those who practice bestiality.

Here is the warning I have for those who think they can support homosexuality: Your problem is, you don't read the scriptures. If you did, you would know this is wrong.

Voted down, of course.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Man from Modesto, I hope you read the hub. I believe the parents loved their son unconditionally like Jesus loves us. But, Jesus has a much bigger capacity to love and forgive than we do as humans. If we treat the homosexual community with loathing or hate, they are not going to want to give their lives to Jesus. Jesus makes changes in our lives that we cannot predict. He said we would be surprised to see who was in Heaven and who was not. I take Him at His Word. We should try to love one another even when it is difficult. We may be the only Jesus they will see.

As to your other comment, I felt it did not stick to the topic of the hub. I will say that I care much more about what God thinks than what any human thinks.

You stated you voted the hub down. Did you vote it down for poor writing or because you did not agree with it? There is a difference. I get disagreeing, but if the writing is decent, I do not vote others down because of personal feelings. I don't think professional writers on HubPages do that. Just my opinion, though.

Take Care!


graceomalley profile image

graceomalley 4 years ago

Sholland - I agree with you that hubs should not be voted down for personal disagreement. This would make no sense. Some think a person can't think straight if that person does not share their own opinions - anyone who can reason would agree with me, of course!

Paul reminds us that knowledge will cease, but love never will.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Grace. I appreciate your comment. I do not understand voting someone down for disagreeing. We are a writing community with many differing opinions. Yes, Paul and Christ and many others remind us that love never fails but the knowledge of men does.

Again, thanks so much for your comment. :-)


BarbaraStanley 4 years ago

There is a difference between tolerating and acceptance. Jesus might tolerate a person who is gay, but at some point, His tolerance will be over. A gay person is loved the same way any lost person is loved, but Jesus expects them to heed the call of the Holy Spirit. The only path to Heaven is through Jesus. To get to Jesus as Lord and Savior, a person must acknowledge his sin, confess it and turn from it. To the woman committing adultery, Jesus said, "Go and sin no more." He did not say to her, "It is ok that you were found with a man who is not your husband. I understand your need and I will tolerate your sin. Who knows, maybe one day I will accept your behavior as normal."

Yes, we must love the homosexual. But, we must never accept their lifestyle. By doing so, we are saying to them that it is not sin. They will never confess being homosexual, never turn from it and never find the path to Jesus.

If a male child is born with a propensity to molest and rape babies and children, should anyone in society tolerate this activity? After all, they say they can not help themselves. They are attracted to children. If a pedophile raped your daughter, would you say that Christians should accept this and not be judgemental?

No one has the right to judge who is going to hell or to Heaven. However, we were told to make a judge of character and not continue in fellowship with sinners who refused to accept their lost state.

I know, homosexuals claim to be born gay. Can you remember a time when you were 5, 6, 7, 8 or even 9 years old and coming to the conclusion that you were heterosexual? No, I did not think so. You were like me, we had no sexual desires for either sex. This is a false claim, relieving the lost of their guilt for their sins. Satan is a great deciever. He has deceived many, making them believe they were born gay, so it must be ok. He has deceived you also.

I have a relative who is gay whom I love with my whole heart. He says he knows his lifestyle is wrong and God does not accept it. He continues in it for the sexual pleasure it gives him. He has never asked anyone to tolerate his homosexuality or to accept it as normal. He does not flaunt it, but keeps it to himself. He is very intelligent. He looks for loopholes in the Bible, but has found none to excuse his behavior. You are giving lost people loopholes which will damn them to hell simply because sin must be acknowledged and confessed, repented of and engaged in no more. Jesus says we mst die to our carnal natures and be born again as new creatures. If you tolerate or accept homosexual behavior, how will they see a need to do the things I just mentioned? Jesus does not tolerate unmarried people of the opposite sex engaging in sexual activity. What makes you think He tolerates it between two men or two women?

What gives you the authority to call people homophiles? You don't know that these people fear gay people. All you know is that they do not accept it as normal behavior. They have a right to practice their Christian faith which says homosexuality is an abomination to God.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Barbara. Thanks for your comment. I understand what you are saying, and I give it over to God to let the Spirit lead any person - gay or straight. As far as calling people "homophiles," I didn't. If you are referring to me quoting Christ in saying "Judge not lest ye be judged," I did and I believe that. Having cropped hair is also an abomination to God, but no one ever seems to go into all the abominations to God listed in Leviticus.

We all fall short. I know I do. I have disappointed God more times than I care to think about, but I am so thankful that He loves me unconditionally - as He does you, the young man in the hub, and everyone else. He is my judge, and for that I am thankful. If we judge someone, why would that person want to be a part of God's children if we, with our pointing finger, are the example? I would not want to walk into a house where I felt I was going to be ridiculed. Christ says to love one another, and I add to that by saying trust the Spirit to do His work. Don't be a stumbling block because all things are possible through Christ. I say step aside and let Him do His work and remember His timing is not our timing. If that Christian family had not loved their gay son, they would have sent him out into darkness filled with anger and resentment. Instead, they put aside their selfish worries about what others would think of them and showed him the love Christ shows him. I am sure they have their son in their prayers everyday placing him into the hands of Christ. I am not sure what more they could do because they are showing their faith in Christ by doing so.

Thanks, again, for your comment.


kellyteam profile image

kellyteam 4 years ago from Michigan

I am not sure where to begin. I think that a lot of what I want to say has been said. Yes we must have unconditional love for others. Doesn't that mean that you love them enough to share with them God's punishment for those that do not turn away from their sins. On some level I think you and PlanksandNails are actually saying the same thing. Maybe not saying the same because their was that misunderstanding of the judgment scripture. But scripture was given to clarify. I guess with the free will that God gave us it needs to be made clear that God does not force his love on you. You can choose what you want but there are consequences. Yes we are all sinners, but the bible believing Christian has repented, turned away from their sins. Dosen't mean that we are totally sinless, otherwise we wouldn't need Jesus. But we sin less and less striving to be like Christ. This is a difficult age for children and you do want to be kind in your dealings with them, but at some point they need to know the truth of God's punishment before its too late. We are losing a lot of our kids younger and younger these days so we don't want to wait too long to give them the whole story. I think the scriptures have been covered so just wanted to add that in. Really enjoyed reading the hub as well as the comments.


Ollie 4 years ago

Ma'am, I'd like to thank you for putting this up for me to find. For the longest time, I've struggled with my parent's (just one,) strong aversion to gay people (not very comfortable as a lesbian teen....) I've always identified more with my atheist parent as she accepted me for who I am without question. I'd come to the conclusion that most of my more religious friends would not accept me or my 'sinful,' ways. I do not have a choice in my sexuality (I have tried to like males but have yet to come across any attraction to one.)

I have done a lot of studying of the bible and have always been extremely disappointed that the one passage could cause some of my friends to judge me so unfairly. You're post has given me some hope that they may yet accept me, even if they do not agree with it.

Also, it may interest you to know, that homosexuality in the bible, can be translated to pedophilia, which I agree, is immoral and wrong. I prefer that translation to the bible. Between both this fact and your post, you've given me the strength I need to reconsider religion and God.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Ollie, I am so sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I hope you do reconsider God. Forget the negative that has been thrown your way. I even suggest you just read the Bible, especially the Gospels, and find out who Jesus hung out with. He loves you no matter what and that is all that matters. There is a plan for you. Look to God, and let Him have your life. You will never regret it. As the Bible says, He takes care of the lilies and the birds, how much more does He love you??? A TON!! There is much more to you than just your sexual orientation, just like there is more to me than mine.

If people tell you God doesn't love you, they are WRONG. He is waiting for you to come back to Him.

Hang in there, and look to God and ignore the others. You are going to be all right. :-)

Thanks for dropping by. I know God has great things in store for you. Take Care and know that someone is praying for you. God bless you!


LindaSmith1 profile image

LindaSmith1 4 years ago from USA

There are so many comments, I did not read all of them. However, I do have a few things to say.

The bible says that we were made in God's Image. The next thing is the topic of Hell. Oh my goodness, Hell is the pulpit for Christians. Homosexuals, prostitutes, thieves, somebody who wears a red shirt, a woman who is perceived as not dressing her children properly for church, those with long hair, and the list goes on is going to hell because they have sinned. The famous line used so often is Wages of Sin is Death. Well, since so many of us is perfect, which you have to be in order to go to Heaven, then Why Did Jesus Die On The Cross? The bible thumping, judgemental Christians need to start walking the walk, rather than just talking the talk. Quoting bible does not impress God. Our judges is God, plain and simple. We tell drug addicts that God loves them. So what do we tell homosexuals, God will love you IF you go straight? God loves all of us. God, like any loving parent, will love all of their children, but it does not mean they like everything their child does. When we go to a dentist, or doctor and then praise them, tell others how wonderful they are, did you ask them if they were gay first? Do you ask your minister if they are gay, which is possible you know. Did you ask the fireman who went into a burning building to save a life if they were gay? Did you ask if the cop who grabbed a child who has drowned and started doing CPR on that child, or who rushed child to hospital in his car with sirens blaring instead of waiting for an ambulance to save that child's life if they were gay? Did you ask all of those in the military who have come back maimed physically, and mentally, after fighting for this country if they are gay? I think not!!!!! Now I ask you this!! When was the last time that you flipped through the bible to find quotes that you think back up your opinon about gays, about the divorced couple next door, about the unwed mother, all you claim have sinned and are going to hell, have you looked at yourself, made a list of all that you have done in the past, and today, then look in the bible to see what it says about your sins that you have committed.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Linda,

You make some great points. I, too, believe God is the ultimate parent who loves all His children. Everyone who has ever walked this earth is a child of God. He gave us free will, so just as a child can reject a parent, a person can reject God. I just don't want to be that person who that other person looks at and thinks, "If judging others is what being a Christian is about, then I will turn my back on God." To me that is a greater sin than the sins some Christians feel the need to harp on. God sees and knows all. He will be the only Judge.

I disagree with your statement that Hell is the pulpit for Christians. My take on it is to go Heaven and take as many people/souls as possible with me.

Thanks for your comment. :-)


ananceleste profile image

ananceleste 4 years ago from California

You , my friend deserve an standing ovation! I commend you and your pen for giving a voice to the compassion and unconditional love of God. Growing up I never understood why homosexuals were being trashed and dismissed as abominations. In all my years of being a teacher of the gospel and teachings of Jesus, I have encountered many teens and adults that actually think that they are abominations and that they deserved going to hell for their biological need to be attracted to their same sex.

I cant, And WON"T turn away from someone that is Gay. Anyone that knows me ,knows this. When it comes to it, every single man and woman that considers themselves righteous has sinned. Including myself. I have no right to judge NO ONE. In the 20 years I have been working and ministering to teens, 90 % of gay teens "know" that God hates them. You heard right, they believe that they are abominations. Loving God, while hating his creation, creates a sore in the message.

Those that point their finger toward others have the other four pointing at their own sin. I could write a book only citing the sins of those that consider themselves "Christians or godly".

I wonder what God will say to them when the time comes. I hope for all our sake, He is compassionate and loving, in a way we never could or deserve....


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Ana! I believe God loves all of us. It is a shame that young people feel God "hates" them. It turns many of them away from God, which is the sad thing. When we are finger pointers, we are turning them away from God, which makes us responsible for a soul. I don't want God to tell me on Judgment Day that I turned people away from Him. That frightens me much more than trying to be compassionate to people I don't agree with.

Thanks for dropping by and your wonderful comment!


must65gt profile image

must65gt 4 years ago

People have so many different view of Christians, almost as many as the views Christians have about God and what he accepts and won’t. I believe God will speak to us all in his own way, through time and with patience. The keys are to know the Old Testament and how it relates to the new. After reading the comments left by others and your responses to them, I must say I am impressed as to how you worded your replies. It is also plain to see many people hold fast to what they “Think” the Bible says, and few take time to “Know” what it says. If we are to hold fast to hard standards, then they should be based on knowledge and fortified with Love and Understanding. The word Hate is mentioned in the bible only 13 times and never about people, only sin and corruption. The New Testament mentioned Abomination, with respect to Homosexuality as a way to describe Gods position. Repenting of sin (no matter how great or small) requires accepting the knowledge it is a sin, and then repenting and striving to abstain from it again. Because homosexuality is a sin, he cannot and will not accept it. However, that did not change his love of the people. I know some Homosexuals and lesbians, and they are people just like the rest of us. God ask Christians to be “Christ like” and love one another as we love ourselves. He commanded “Judge not or by the same standard so shall we be judged.” But he mentioned love over 933 times, so it seems this is where the importance needs to rest. If people wish to find acceptance, there must be love in great bounty, and only through that love, can we hope to show them Gods complete plan. It is my opinion that the most important things we should derive from God’s word, are Forgiveness, Patience, understanding, and Love for fellow man. Only through this can I ever hope to share Gods plan.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Must65gt, I am so glad you gave the statics of how much more the Bible concentrates on love rather than judgment. All fall short, and all have sin. God loves all of us, even those who do unimagineable things that are far worse than being gay or promiscuous. I believe gays can be Christian, but in many cases, why would they want to when the Christians who have been in their lives have been pointing an accusing finger of hell at them. I disagree with this sort of judgment and believe we will pay for putting ourselves in God's place. God's Word clearly tells us to love and not judge.

Thanks so much for stopping by!! :-)


jlpark profile image

jlpark 3 years ago from New Zealand

Thanks for this one. Finally a hub that tries to think it over, rather than just condemning. And has a thoughtful word for each and every commentor.

I will be honest and say I did not read ALL of the comments (there are a number!), but the few that caught my eye. One of them disturbed me a little that quoted either Romans or 1 Corinthians.

As an agnostic gay woman it disturbs me that I know that the word HOMOSEXUAL was not invented until the early 20th Century - I know that both the OT and NT were written WELL before that - but that many people take it as a LITERAL translation of Gods word - as a Christian person, I figure people should know that, not a non-religious person like myself. If there is a translation that includes 'homosexual' it has been translated from the INTERPRETATION of the translator - not literally. So, in essence, from a person who thinks that they knew the will of God in this particular verse.

I am not surprised, but it's still disturbing, that people insist on providing verses dispraging homosexulaity OUT of CONTEXT. I was over-joyed to see that you had written of the 40yr track to the promised land in relation to Leviticus. ALL Six verses admonishing it appears of homosexuals are always taken out of context. For example:

Gen 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah - "Yada" - is translated as "to know" in the Bible. Why then, in Gen, is it suddenly "to know sexually" - it is not used this way anywhere else - is it merely another 'translators assumption". Jesus speaks of Sodom's sins in Ezekiel, and elsewhere - never once does he mention homosexuality as it's sin. Again, this verse is used out of context to condemn something that it does not. And besides - if used to condemn homosexuality, you should see what i condones - incest and rape amongst other things. You're a little worried about two men having sex, but no worries about Lot's attempt to give the men his two virgin daughters?

Leviticus - both verses. TOTALLY out of context. What better way to increase a community than outlaw sex that isn't reproductive. Or things that could make you ill like eating pork that has been improperly stored, or tattooing (Gosh knows what sterilisation they had available!), or....blended fabrics. I don't know any man who asks a woman if she is menstruating before he touches her, yet it is a sin in Lev.

Romans and Corinthians - written in a time where Paul was trying to encourage people away from the older Pagan faith. What better way to achieve this than disparage some of the more pleasurable practices?

Out of context - they mean NOTHING of Gods word, and a lot about ignorance, and subtle distain/hatred for something they do not understand.

In context - they no longer work for cause they were being used for.

I love learning about religions, and their histories - the reason I am agnostic is I haven't found the 'one' for me. It is disheartening though to see a Gods word used for hatred, when his only intention was to love.

Thank you again for this hub, and letting me waffle. I get a little hot under the collar occasionally, hopefully not today.

J


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 3 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi JLPark! I am sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you. I did not know that "homosexuality" was not a word until the 20th century. That is interesting. I do believe that there has been a lot lost or added in translations. The one thing I do believe though is that God loves each and every person unconditionally. I don't believe there is a lost translation in that message, nor the "judge not lest ye be judged" message. I have no right to point a finger of judgement towards anyone. I have my own baggage/sins for God to deal with. But I know He loves me just like my mother loved me, but on a grander scale and with much more power attached. That gives me comfort.

You mentioned Leviticus... The one verse I always think of is that men with cropped hair are an abomination to God. Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a rule to keep men and women from being over-exposed to the sun as they wandered through the wilderness for 40 years. If I am wrong, God will let me know about it - in that I trust, but it sure seems like a rule to help protect the people. I believe Leviticus holds a wealth of wisdom on how to survive before people knew how to take care of themselves, physically and mentally. We both know that sex without proper cleansing or mental balance could harm our bodies and minds and hearts.

Anyway, I am so glad you dropped by. Just know that even if you do not believe, not every Christian is judging you. There is so much more to you than your sexual orientation, just like there is more to me than my sexual orientation. It is wrong to judge, period, but especially without looking at the whole person. I wish for God to bless you and keep you.

Thanks, again, and take care! :-)

Susan


Buildreps profile image

Buildreps 3 years ago from Europe

Bravo for your very nice 'controversial' Hub. I came on your Hub through search, looking for controversial Hubs. I am busy with a Hub about abortion, but it is still under editing doubting to publish this. Your Hub gave you some 'unexpected maintenance'?


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 3 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Buildreps! I wrote this hub out of personal experience and deep conviction of unconditional love we should have for others. I was prepared for opposition, but it was not always easy.

Thanks for dropping by and take care! :-)

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