For Unhappily Married Men - Having Children Changes Everything, Kids Change Your Relationship with Your Husband

You're Not Alone

I posted a HUB not long ago called Affairs with Married Men, where I addressed an email I received from a married man's mistress who called herself "Lonely". I was pretty firm, pointing out all the reasons why she and her married liar are in the wrong, and why she should move on.

As a response to that HUB, I received many emails and comments from men. Unhappily married men, that said having kids changed everything.

Many of the emails and comments on Affairs with Married Men all described a similar scenario. A husband and wife get married. They have kids. They have debt. She changes, shifting her prioroty completely into mother-mode. The man gets miserable, and goes elsewhere for happiness.

"Angry Wife" said that they were living paycheck to paycheck, she was a stay-at-home-mom, and they had 4 kids when her husband left her for another woman.

"Fatal Attraction" said she didn't want her children being raised by strangers so she quit her lucrative career to stay at home with their 2 kids. Her husband left her for a woman that did what she used to do at work.

"Bill" related to the comments made by Lonely's lover about his wife: pitiful, clingy, and dependent. His wife wouldn't work but wanted to keep having kids and gave him a hard time for his long hours. He said he dreaded coming home, and finally left.

"Regret" said he had no idea what raising kids would be like. He was shocked by how expensive it was and by how their entire lives changed in every way. He claims he loves his kids but can not live like this. He's planning his escape.

"The Dog" said he and his wife were so happy when they first got married. Then everything changed once she insisted on having kids. She changed, her priorities changed, and their lifestyle changed. He said this isn't who he married and this isn't the life he signed on for. He said he refused to be stuck and left his wife.

"Carol" said she knows her husband has been having affairs since her first pregnancy when he stopped finding her attractive. Instead of confronting him about it, she decided the best thing to do was to keep having more children so he'd be tied to her forever. They now have 4 kids and he avoids coming home as much as he can.

I want to take this opportunity to point out the warning this should flag for all young couples. This advice comes too late for our Unhappily Marrieds above, but it's not too late for others to learn. When you commit your life to someone, that means you've discussed and agreed on what that life will be like. Having kids is a huge lifelong commitment that is not all pink puppies and giggles.

Kids are freaking expensive. They are constantly in need of attention, protection, money, support and guidance. It's 24-7 every single day for the next 18 to 22 years at the very least. By having children you've surrendered most of your personal freedom, your indiscretions and your wild side. You have completely accepted the burden, cost, and commitment to:

Handicaps, learning problems, no more sleep, behavior problems, braces, soccer uniforms, getting your ass to scouts, games, car seats, mini vans, grandparents, getting up, snow days, sick days, school buses, PTA, play dates, concerts, runs to the mall, doctor appts, sickness, messes, big awful plastic toys all over your once-pretty living room and lawn, going to water parks instead of Vegas, getting to know Elmo and Bobpants or whatever the fuck that is, G rated, Disney, other people's children and their birthdays and problems and issues... sex talks, cell phones, internet predators, pot smoking, piercings, being called old and out of it, coming out, growing up, getting off, music you can't understand, goth, goth boyfriends, pregnancy, AIDS, school shootings, driving tests, insurance, cars, boys in cars, girls with tramp stamp tattoos, eating disorders, cutting, bullying, curfews, grades, college...

And there's no guarantees. Your kid could be special needs. Medically challenged. A behavioral nightmare. He could bully, or be bullied. She could get pregnant. He could deal drugs - out of YOUR home. She could drive drunk and kill someone. They could (COULD) could cost you everything. And even the best behaved most wonderful kid costs you oodles of money, time, thought, energy, responsibility and commitment.

Once you have a kid, you are no longer the first person you get to think about. Period. Every decision, every penny, every inch of your life is now theirs.

Really think about this before you have kids. Agree on your ideas and plans. Will you both work, can you afford for one of you not to, consider day care, and school, and what your house is going to be like, and cost. Think about no more motorcycles or vacations, or whatever sacrifices you really are going to have to make, and be on the same page with your partner.

I can almost guarantee you that the people that wrote in did not consider all of the above. Look, there are many lifestyle choices that you are free to make. To have or not to have kids is one of them. Kids change everything.

As you can see from the recaps above from those comments and emails, in general it's the men that want out, that don't find their wives attractive once they become mothers, that are feeling the financial stress, that are miserable. Is that always the case? I'm sure it isn't. But this is what I have to work with here, these are the people that responded to the HUB.

Angry Wife made several excellent points in her comment. One of which is that maybe she'd feel differently if her ex husband was at least supporting her and their kids, but he hasn't sent a penny since he left. I'm starting off my advice with that point. Running away from the problem doesn't actually resolve it. Guys, the mistress seems stress-free and wonderful, but the reasons you're leaving your wife aren't just going to disappear if you go. Eventually dead-beat dads get caught. Is prison really going to be better than the life you have now? Stop dreaming and own your shit.

Bill, you asked for advice and here it is. FIX IT. It's too late to *think* now about whether or not you want or can afford kids. It's just too late to discuss this. So fix this moving forward.

First thing you have to do is sit down with your wife one on one. Hire a babysitter and take her out. Sit her down and tell her the truth. Tell her you're fucking miserable. You CAN NOT live like this and you feel so strongly about this that you have contemplated leaving. She can't dismiss this. Make her hear you.

Once you have her real and true attention to the seriousness of your state of mind, let her know that you aren't leaving. You made your bed and you're going to BE A MAN and lie in it.

List out all the things you hate about your life. I'm serious. Hey, you're contemplating leaving her. Telling her you don't like her housecoat is mild in comparison. Whatever all your gripes are, list them out. Even the ones that are selfish, unrealistic or mean sounding. Just do it. And encourage her to do it too. This isn't going to be easy. Brutal honesty is your only way to go at this point. And this is going to take time. If she wants to save the marriage she will let you get this off your chest. Then you can begin to compromise and work together as a team. Your problems are her problems. And vice versa.

One of two things needs to happen once you admit these things. One is that you will make the sacrifice and suck it up. Or two is that she will. At the very least you can work together. You will see that there is a side to everything you don't like, that you haven't considered.

For example, when you were dating her she made an effort to look great for you. She did her hair, her nails, her toes, and her make up. She got dressed in cute little outfits and jewelry. Now she doesn't. Your attraction for her is waning. Well, once you admit this to her, she can admit right back to you, that she used to have an hour to herself every morning to primp and fluff and get dressed. Now she doesn't. BINGO. Maybe you can go into the office an hour later every day, and give her that alone bath and beauty time. You take the kids completely for one hour every morning. Make it two hours and let her run to Curves and have a coffee in peace, too. Maybe she is just as upset about her looking frumpy as you are! Maybe verbalizing this and her having this special time every day will really be great for both of you. She will enjoy taking pride in herself and looking good again and this self confidence will spark other changes.

If you have some financial freedom, addressing necessary changes will be easier. Hiring a nanny, a maid, or a one day a week babysitter will bring incredible relief. You may have decided day care was not for you before you had kids. But now you are seriously contemplating LEAVING YOUR WIFE. Hello. That's much worse than daycare. You have to reconsider that decision for your sanity.

I strongly recommend seeking outside help. You may both be too close to the matter for real clarity. I highly recommend couples therapy. If finances aren't flowing, I highly recommend you make an appointment with a credit advisor and you sit down together and figure out what the hell you're going to do. Downsize your house, sell off stocks, make a budget and stick to it. Maybe she can go back to work and you can utilize daycare or a grandma that's willing to help. Maybe if you move your office to the house that will save overhead. Whatever you need to do, DO IT.

If you attempt these things and they don't work, or if your wife refuses to try to work with you, then make an appointment with a lawyer. Bill (et al), you can't just leave your kids. If you really have exhausted all other possibilities and there is no way this can work, then go to a lawyer. You can't just run.

When you put time and energy into a mistress and your own happiness, you are taking time and energy away from your family. It's not fair to anyone. It's a poor response. It makes you an ass. You made the mistakes. You have to fix them.

Marriages are partnerships. Partnerships involve compromise. And sacrifice. You may have made some really bad decisions that you truly regret. And if you are in that situation, I'm sorry for you. If one of you is unhappy, then both of you bear that burden. And you have to work together to find the compromise that will get you through.

If you like this HUB please click the “Thumbs-Up” below just before the comments.


All text is original content by Veronica.

All photos are used with permission.

All videos are used courtesy of Youtube.

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Comments 227 comments

Regret 9 years ago

Thanks for emailing me this link. Long article with a lot of good ground covered. No one wants to admit the things you are pointing to in this. but you are right Veronica. This is good. When I had kids I didn't think it through. I regret everything. Now I'm stuck. I hate my life. I have been planning to leave. What do I have to lose to try to talk to her honestly about it. I am going to take this advice and give it a shot. It can't get worse, right?


CareyYo profile image

CareyYo 9 years ago from Fullerton

Veronica although I don't have any of these issues because I am not married and don't have kids, I really appreciate the look of problems yet to come. My fiancé and I try to be very open about what we plan for our future together, ie careers, kids, etc and I think this will really help in the long run.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Regret - I really truly hope you and your wife are able to work things through. Namaste.

CareyYo - Your comments really matter to me. Thank you for seeing what I was trying to do. I sound like a broken record, but honesty and communication really are the keys to everything. You are so right - it will really help you and your fiancé to plan and talk and share thoughts on everything.

I don't think "kids" are a mistake. I think not thoroughly discussing having kids, and not understanding the reality of the commitment, is the mistake. I've tried to focus on that because that is the theme of unhappiness in the comments and emails I received.


Goodwitch 9 years ago

Veronica - you've hit the nail on the head when you stress the importance of communication in a relationship. Although, personally I feel you were a bit harsh on the negative implication of children.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Thanks Goodwich. I'm glad it was harsh. I hope it encourages communication, consideration, and thought. This HUB was directed to a specific scenario. It wasn't meant as a generic kid-bash. Having kids is a huge commitment that needs to be thought through thoroughly.

If I do a HUB in the future about the positive implications of having kids, yours will be mentioned ;)

(Goodwitch and her husband have raised a beautiful family... together.)


gpower2 profile image

gpower2 9 years ago from Newport Beach

Hi Veronica. Thanks for this article. I am married and have 4 sons. I wanted to comment on the positive side to all of this. Although what you write is mostly true, one must not forget that anything in life of value is not easy. You can only truly appreciate things when there is some type of struggle in attaining them. The facts are marriage is hard and raising kids well, is harder. However, both are very worthwhile and the grass is not greener on the other side. It's usually more stressfull, more expensive and more lonely to divorce, period! A lot of the problem is with the media and society painting an unrealistic picture of what is entailed. The point is, if you are mature enough to make the commitment, then you must live with your decision, good or bad. Both marriage and raising children are very selfless things. If the choice to leave wasn't so easy to do, people wouldn't do it so quickly. So to all of the people out there who are honoring your commitments, I applaud you.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Hi gpower2,

Thanks for the comment. I agree with you. I'm happily married 10 years myself.

This HUB was geared toward people that had lost sight of that message. I think you're right - there are a lot of romanticized ideas floating around out there about having babies especially.

I'm with you applauding people that take ownership of their lives and stand by their commitments.


Chris 9 years ago

Hi,

I can't imagine that I would ever leave my wife, and I cannot even bear the thought of not having constant access to my two daughters. (She is a wonderful mom and if we separated there is no reason for a judge to grant me primary custody of them. It makes me shudder to even talk about things like this.)

But, we are not happy. I don't know if she realizes it or not, or wants to put that out in the open. She is the kind of person that likes to sweep things under the rug, whereas I want to get them out in the open but she seems afraid to admit this problem.

I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact that we feel like roomates or something. I am not naïve enough to think that with two kids we are going to be as passionate as we were in the past, but she seems to have zero interest in romance or sex and it discourages me to the point where I oftentimes don't even bother trying to be passionate or "cute" anymore. And vice versa with her.

It just seems crazy; we are both in our twenties and if we were not married with two kids we would more than likely be out on the dating scene right now. It just seems to me that, just because we have kids we don't have to act like an elderly couple all the time.

Neither one of us has ever verbally considered divorce but she seems to refuse to even acknowledge that there even is a problem.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Chris

Thanks so much for leaving your very thoughtful comment. I'm sorry, I wish there was something I could say that would help. I have received so many emails from men feeling very similarly to you since I began this HUB series.

I very much respect your commitment and your feelings for your kids. Not all the men I've heard from in your situation share that same devotion.

Chris, I don't think it's fair that you feel this way, and your wife sweep it under the rug. I really hope you find a way to relay to her the seriousness of your feelings (and hers) and that you can one day be happy again.


Isabella Snow profile image

Isabella Snow 9 years ago

IMHO, most people are unsuitable (genetically) for child rearing. I'm one of those people. Shame other people don't realize it until they have a stack of dirty diapers in their kitchen.


The Dude 9 years ago

Bravo!

(Hi Veronica- Joe,here)

Not sure if you could hear the chorus shouting "Amen!' from all the way out here in Montana.

I am childless by choice, and I am very happy with that choice.

The reasons you articulate above are exactly the reasons why I made that choice.

There are some downsides- I get bored to tears at parties or dinners with people who have young children. I get excluded from some of those dinners and activities. I get judged, and lectured on "what a great dad I would be." (Because I wouldn't half-ass it, and made an informed and thoughtful decision not to put my life on hold for 20 years.) "Who will take care of you when they are older? (You're sick if that's why you had kids.) "Oh, it's different when they are YOUR kids." (Uh, no. Screaming is screaming; cleaning up vomit is still cleaning up vomit, even if it contains your DNA; shit stinks, regardless of it's source.)

"When are you going to grow up?"

Grow up?

I'm 6'2".

Sure, it's selfish to choose to live my life for me, but that's my choice.

Isabella Snow is correct. I don't think most people realize the gargantuan undertaking and responsibility that comes with children until it is in their laps.

The focus of your marriage is no longer each other; it is the kids. It has to be. Kids are like a job that runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 18 years. Granted, some of that job is wonderful and rewarding. Kids can be fun. I like kids (other peoples', that is).

If you can manage to still stay in love with your spouse, steal some moments together and enjoy raising children together... that is wonderful.

It just seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.

I didn't mean this to come off as negative. My circle of friends and family have had a slew of babies in the last 5 years, and based on my conversation and experiences with them, 90% of them would switch places with me if they had a magic wand.


The Dude 9 years ago

Bravo!

(Hi Veronica- Joe,here)

Not sure if you could hear the chorus shouting "Amen!' from all the way out here in Montana.

I am childless by choice, and I am very happy with that choice.

The reasons you articulate above are exactly the reasons why I made that choice.

There are some downsides- I get bored to tears at parties or dinners with people who have young children. I get excluded from some of those dinners and activities. I get judged, and lectured on "what a great dad I would be." (Because I wouldn't half-ass it, and made an informed and thoughtful decision not to put my life on hold for 20 years.) "Who will take care of you when they are older? (You're sick if that's why you had kids.) "Oh, it's different when they are YOUR kids." (Uh, no. Screaming is screaming; cleaning up vomit is still cleaning up vomit, even if it contains your DNA; shit stinks, regardless of it's source.)

"When are you going to grow up?"

Grow up?

I'm 6'2".

Sure, it's selfish to choose to live my life for me, but that's my choice.

Isabella Snow is correct. I don't think most people realize the gargantuan undertaking and responsibility that comes with children until it is in their laps.

The focus of your marriage is no longer each other; it is the kids. It has to be. Kids are like a job that runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 18 years. Granted, some of that job is wonderful and rewarding. Kids can be fun. I like kids (other peoples', that is).

If you can manage to still stay in love with your spouse, steal some moments together and enjoy raising children together... that is wonderful.

It just seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.

I didn't mean this to come off as negative. My circle of friends and family have had a slew of babies in the last 5 years, and based on my conversation and experiences with them, 90% of them would switch places with me if they had a magic wand.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Hey Joe!

Thanks so much for the input. My husband and I are in a similar situation as you. Many of our friends with kids would trade places with us and it's pretty much because they didn't think about what they were getting into. They weren't prepared and are overwhelmed with the reality of their decision. We know only a few families that really seem happy. Like you said, it's the exception.

We get the same bullshit comments as you do - especially that one about who will take care of us when we're old. I completely agree, that's a sick reason to breed. And, btw, no guarantee.

What really pisses me off, is (in the vain of Carrie Bradshaw) we celebrate every body else's life choices, with shower gifts, baby birth gifts, christenings, christmas gifts, birthday gifts, blah blah blah. Do you think any one of those people does anything in return?? Not one of them even makes a donation to the humane society in our name and sends us a card, to acknowledge and celebrate our life choice the way we celebrate theirs. We just adopted another dog (long story) and dammit, I want a puppy shower! Not so much for the "gifts", much more so for the acknowlegement and acceptance.


Angel 9 years ago

I loved that Sex in the City Episode with the shoes! Girl, it sounds like a great idea for another article.


Blink182 9 years ago

My wife and I read your blog Veronica and we have been looking at your hubpages now too. My wife didn't like this article. When I asked her why she couldn't give me a real reason. I think it just angered her in general that this is true. Of all the married men with kids I know, I can name only 2 that knew what they were getting into when they had kids. So many of them have affairs now. Most of them are just miserable. It's this unspoken thing in our circles. Everyone knows how terribly unhappy everyone else is. Everyone wanted different things in life that aren't going to happen now because of the decision to have kids. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's the way it is. It's true. The guys I know having affairs would not be seeking union elsewhere had they not had kids. Like you explained they had a very romanticized idea of what would happen. Life changes in every way after you have kids. Your wife changes in every way. I'm the first to admit my wife and I love our kids but we didn't know how much things would change. If I knew then what I know now I would have made some very different decisions. I'm not happy with my life and I know I could be happier. That's not to say I'm going to do anything stupid. I will deal with my decisions and follow them through because it's the right thing to do. But I understand why so many men just can't. Bravo to you for not defending them, just explaining what's going on. Just the fact that my wife wouldn't face the truth of this article and reacted with anger and dislike shows how far some women's heads are stuck in the sand about this. This article is a very hard to face truth that represents the majority.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Thanks for that, Peter.

By far, I have received more emails on this HUB than on any other. Many are from married men, miserable and making bad decisions. Some of them were heart breaking. Some of them were disturbing.

Thanks for your point of view.


SeattleSarah 9 years ago

I don't think you were harsh at all about the negative side of having kids. Anyone who thinks you were must not have kids yet.

Every single thing you said was true. If anything is "harsh" it's the TRUTH.

I agree with the people that give you credit for not defending these guys that cheat. You were right telling them they need to deal with their decisions like real men and not take time and energy away from their families only to spend it on having affairs.

You really wrote a good piece explaining the truth no one wants to admit and not defending these guys at the same time.

I had 4 children with my first husband who left us. I was very lucky to find my second husband. We raised 4 wonderful people. I began to read this article thinking I would be mad at you for it for defending what my first husband did to us. But that isn't what you did at all. You explained the situation painfuly well.

I hope people will read this with open minds and really think about it before they have kids. It is a wonderful experience but it is not for everyone. I agree with the comment that it probably isn't for most people.


Robroy 9 years ago

I would give anything to have my life back again. I'm exactly what this is about. I am fucking miserable. I can't talk to my wife about it. I hate my life.


Mrs. Lost 9 years ago

I am the female version of exactly this article. I am a 41 year old married mother of 2. I knew having kids would be a big change but in no way did I know just how much so. I love my children but I am so unhappy. There is no time for me anymore. I have lost myself. I used to be a person and now I feel like nothing. The children suck the life out of us. Nobody tells you how awful it is. I see how my husband changed and how our relationship changed but now I see how I changed too. There is no romance. We are too tired from homework and cleaning and fighting and having to do everything for the children all the time. We used to go to plays and museums. We used to have vacations and long talks. We used to not worry so much about money. We used to sleep in on weekends. We used to take care of our appearances and we used to enjoy life. Now we don't do any of that anymore. I am this cranky tired bitch all the time. I hate myself. I hate him. I hate my life. I feel trapped. I read this article with how men find escape in affairs. I say to these men if you are as awfully miserable as I am and you find any happiness anywhere then you should go for it. I would give anything to like myself and be happy again.


Turk 9 years ago

I am a 29 year old Married Marine father. I've been married for four years, and have been with my wife for six years.

After my first deployment, which was last year, i returned home to find that my wife had been cheating on me and destroyed our finances while i was away. I had decided on divorce, and after i realised how long the process could take, began to date and talk to other, prospective females. After a short time, i found a nice woman and we got into a relationship that i dropped recently, because my wife decided that we should give it "another shot" or whatever, at least for our daughter. As much as it hurt to do so, i did it and again faithful to her, we both know that what i did cannot be considered "wrong", at least in the sense that i believed that my wife and i were through, i just really wanted to move on and leave the pain behind.

Now, we've both made changes and sacrifices to "make amends", or try and "make things work", and in most ways it is, but i just cannot, for the life of me, forgive and forget what she did to our family, and to me.

It's smiles on the outside but inside, i'm still full of bitterness and despair, and i focus on the things that mt wife still won't do, but my recently dropped "lover" did so well. Whether it was sex, affection, or just inquiring into my well being, she really made me happier than my "wife" does, i really fucked up, i realize that now and i just can't figure out what to do.

I don't want to lose my daughter again, but at the same time, i can't live like this anymore, it's like living a lie.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Turk,

I wrote a response to your comment in your very own HUB.

http://hubpages.com/relationships/Should_I_Stay_in...

I hope you'll read it.

Best to you no matter what you do,

Veronica


Alex 9 years ago

Veronica,

Thank you for telling it like it is!

I work with children. I love children. I can't imagine not having children of all ages in my life. I don't mind the vomit, the poop, the crying, the screaming -- or the help with homework, the fights, the snot, the blood -- FOR A LIMITED NUMBER OF HOURS PER WEEK. Someday, maybe, that could change, but for now, I'm 25, and I have absolutely NO intention of having children of my own for AT LEAST 5 years -- and probably more like 10 (or more)!

I can't tell you how many of the parents I see don't seem like their children are anything like the kind of priority they should be, and it's heartbreaking. In our society, there's no reason to have a child if you don't want a child. I can't help but wonder how many of them simply had no idea what they were getting into when they "chose" to have children.

If even one person reads your article and thinks twice about having a baby -- or thinks twice about having a baby NOW -- you'll have done something very, very good. Thank you!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 9 years ago from NY Author

Alex,

Wow, thanks so much for your comment. You are so right: "In our society, there's no reason to have a child if you don't want a child. I can't help but wonder how many of them simply had no idea what they were getting into when they 'chose' to have children."

As someone who deals with children and their parents for a livin, you would see it first hand every day. A million thank you's for stopping by my HUB.


Dino 9 years ago

This could have been written about me. I got married young, had kids because I thought that's what ya did, and was miserable beyond repairby age 26. I cheated on my wife a few times just to escape. I dreaded coming home to that house, with the screaming kids and the mess and the toys everywhere and my wife mad and upset. We got divorced and I am so much happier now. I am so sorry for everything I did and not saying it was right - just like you veronica, just saying this is the way it was. I see my kids every other weekend they live in another state and I am happy. The really sad thing is my ex wife remarried to a guy I used to work with when I lived there, and they had another kid right away. The really sad thing is, and I know from friends at the old job, he's having an affair now with a woman that works with him. I am not making excuses, just like this article doesn't make excuses. I'm just saying just like this article, people have no idea what they are getting into when they have kids. My ex wife used to be so pretty and strong. And now she looks a mess and has had two cheating husbands. When I talk to her when I pickup my kids she says she wants more kids. She has no idea.


Michelle 9 years ago

It is hard to face the truth about this subject. My husband and I had 2 children and our lives changed totally. I love my children and would never want not to have them. But my husband was different. I think you are right about that he just did not realize how much work it would be. He started working later and later and then would go to the gym. We stopped having sex and stopped being friends. I found out he was cheating on me and when I confronted him he didn't even apologize. He just wanted a divorce and wanted to get away from us. Since he left 2 years ago he has seen his children 4 times.


Dave 8 years ago

I have another perspective on this. I am completely miserable and have been for years. I have two beautiful children who I adore, and they are all that keep me going day to day. Rather than the children being the reason why my marriage is unhappy, they are the only reason that I am there at all. I've been separated for 9 months when they were very young, and while I loved my freedom, I eventually came back because I didn't want them to grow up damaged. I've been through months and months of marriage counciling with my wife, but nothing can solve the fact that I just don't love her. I figure I just have to sacrifice my life for my children to give them at the very least a happy childhood. I know I will most likely miss out on ever having true love myself, and I go through episodes of severe depression thinking about that. Eventually I have just told my wife what she wants to hear so that we have some sort of happy home. I know I can make it as long as I don't meet anybody else. Not exactly the perfect situation, but that is my present reality.


Mets Fan 8 years ago

I had a girlfriend in college that I loved very much. She didn't want to have children and my parents made her out to be some kind of weirdo because of it. I broke up with her over it and married a girl I met at work a few years later. My wife and I have 2 kids. My parents asked me all the time, when are you going to make us grandparents, when are you going to have kids. Not once did they ever ask me, are you ready to have kids, do you know what's involved. The pressure of them asking all the time was immense. They always made me feel like having kids was something every body did and I had to do it too. They made me feel like the woman I truly loved was wrong for her decision. They pressured me into the situation I am in now. Kids change everything. No one warned me or taught me anything about this. I'm just expected now to not want to go out anymore, to give up every night to homework, to give up every weekend to all their activities. It's not their fault but I resent them for taking my life away from me. I can't do any of the things I used to enjoy. I work hard and make good money but I never have any because of the kids. My wife is an excellent mother which is why I married her. She loved kids and wanted to have them. My parents pressed it into me that that was the only quality that mattered in a woman. We don't have sex, we never talk. I can't stand to be around her. She looks awful because she takes no time on herself at all. She can't talk about anything but the kids. I resent my parents for being so irresponsible with the pressure on me to have kids and for never ever teaching me how hard it was to raise kids. I resent my wife and my kids. I feel stupid for letting all these people push me and make decisions for me. I hate that I never thought for myself. I hate my life. I hate coming home from work, I hate spending time with my kids. I hate when I have to speak to my wife. I'm not having an affair but I would if I found a woman that wanted to. I love my kids but if I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now I would never have had them. I would not have listened to my parents. I would not have married my wife. I would have married the woman I really loved and I would be happy, much happier than I will ever be being a father. One more thing, I talk about this with different men I work with or know from the gym or from college. Many of them are in similar situations as me as far as having kids and the way their wives are and many of them feel like I do about it. I am by far the worst and I think it's because of my parents.


Marisa Wright profile image

Marisa Wright 8 years ago from Sydney

I love the way you tell it like it is, Veronica! I read an interesting article in our local paper recently. It was by a woman who'd just had a baby. She wrote about going to a Mothers' Club and feeling like an outsider, because all the other moms seemed to have transferred all their love to their babies, and had very little (if any) time for their husbands.

Whereas the author loved her baby, but she also still loved her man. Of course, the baby demanded a lot more time, but in her mind, she loved them both equally and she took care to let him know that. But the other mothers actually sympathised with each other about how their husbands didn’t understand the new situation – as if they should just accept they were now relegated to third place in the family, behind bub and mom.

It started me wondering - women blame their men when he walks out after the kids arrive, but is it possible that the woman’s change in attitude is a major part of the cause?  I'd be interested to hear your take.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Hi there Marisa Wright

Thanks so much for the awesome comment!

Having not read the article, it's hard to weigh in. But based on what you said, I really sympathize with the author. Years from now when all those kids are grown and gone, I am willing to bet her and her husband are still going to have an awesome life together, and those other mommies are not going to be so lucky.

I don't blame men alone in walking out after the "kids change everything" moment of life arrives for them. I definitley put the blame on the woman too. What guy would still feel romantic toward a woman that doesn't show him she still feels romantically towards him?

Men alone are not to blame. Their mothers start this, and their wives sew it up in the end. (Sometimes. Not all the time. Don't every body go ballistic. I'm talking about a certain group of people. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on.)

I'd love to hear your take, Marisa. Let us have it.


Marisa Wright profile image

Marisa Wright 8 years ago from Sydney

Veronica

I'm old enough to know that very few marriage break-ups are the fault of only one person!

I don’t have kids myself so am not really qualified to comment – just curious whether other it strikes a chord with other women who do. 


nicki 8 years ago

Yes, kids are hard work but good grief there are some whiny people posting here. Deal with it and be grateful - change your attitude and it will change your life. Don't forget that anything of value in this world takes hard work and commitment.

My husband and I have two very energetic young boys and most of our friends have kids also. Yes, we all used to vacation together and we don't anymore but we plan to again in a few years when the kids are older. I know none who are having affairs. We are all quite tired and busy (we all work full-time) but we are happy with our children. We would never change our decision. I do think number of children is a consideration - two is plenty - I do agree that more than two might drive us crazy, there is just not enough time or energy for more.

I hope the people who have responded try to focus on the positive aspects of their current life situation. The screaming and the toys everywhere etc. should improve over the next few years - it is the early years that test you - if you and your spouse can get through it together, as a team, I am sure you will enjoy a happy family. We love our sons and we are taking our first family vacation soon, now that they are "big boys", 6 & 4.

Good luck.


RFox profile image

RFox 8 years ago

I definitely agree that too many women change their focus when they have children. The woman in Marisa's article is right on! I personally do not have children but I can appreciate how much time and energy they demand. However, your Husband/Partner should still be your primary focus. They are the ones you declared your commitment to and having a loving, healthy relationship with your spouse directly impacts on your childrens lives. You are in the relationship together and even though it may take slightly more energy to continue making your partner feel special (energy you may feel you don't have) it pays off so much more in the end. I think it comes down to a simple question women have to ask themselves "Did you say 'I do' so you could become a Mother or did you say 'I do' because you truly love the person you're with?" If you truly love the person you're with then they must take priority so you can work as a team to raise your children. Just my two cents. Great writing!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Thanks!

Marisa Wright's comment woman? Yeah, I agree too.


Jon 8 years ago

There seem to be, broadly speaking, two types of people in marriages. People who see their children/family as the centre od their marriage and people who see the relationships between man and wife as the cdentre of the marriage.

It is also true that both mn an women fall into each category. The woman who puts her kids before her husband and the man who stays with his famly even when he is having an affair are both putting hte needs of the children before their own emotional needs from a relationship in different ways.

Equally men who walk out of marriages with kids and women who put their husbands before their children, even at the children's expense are putting the relationship first.

In this case it does not matter weher the relationship we are talking about is a marriage or an affair. The important thing is that it is given higher priority than parenthood. I guess the truth is striking the right balance between choldren and spouse is very difficult to achieve for all.

Also in my experience the problems with children really start about 10 years into parenthood with at least another 10 left before the youngest is truly independent. The younger years are the most demanding but years 10-20 cna be the most demoralising in terms of needing some kind of other energy in your life to stop you feeling stagnant. But I guess everyone is different in this department.


Jon 8 years ago

Also we should not lose sight of the fact that falling in love and making love with someone you love with the thought of having a baby are the very best feelings in the world.

I believe we should trust our instincts at these points and if we choose to enjoy the moment then we should also have the will power to see it through until the child is 18-21. We know all marriages have ups and downs (including affairs) but staying togther for better or worse mean just that and normally after 50 years most marriages have evened out in terms of who is treating who wrongly.

Our Grandparents, greatgrandparents, great great grand parents etc seemed to have managed to cope OK with life long marriages of reasonable quality. It should be no surprise to us that in the last 30 years or so we have changed all the rules of marriage and parenthood and then wonder why it falls apart so much. Perhaps we should try to learn a thing or two from the older generation.


ahluwalia 8 years ago

I am posting a comment to gpower2.

If you are applauding those who honor their commitements, and it seems so important to you to stuggle and be mature to ensure that the marriage survives, then why were you divorced once already? Why didn't you try to make that marriage work?


Pipe Dreamer 8 years ago

Veronica, everything you stated is the absolute truth. I for one did not think through my decision to have kids. I have been married to an emotionally absent, verbally abusive, selfish man for almost 20 years. The problem is, I knew this when I married him and should have known things would only get worse instead of better. So my advice to anyone who wants to have kids is to find someone who you truly love and who loves you back before you make the commitment of marriage, much less before having children. I thought children could fill the void of a loveless marriage, however now I realize how immature I was at the time of that ridiculous though. I love them unconditionally and I am grateful for them but they do not fix a broken marriage. I had an affair some time back as a result of lonliness, anger, and boredom. Although it was short-lived and almost ruined my life, it was the time of my life. He gained legal custody of the kids, and I was forced back into my unhappy life once again in order to have a daily relationship with my kids. There is no longer trust in our marriage. He doesn't trust me because of the affair and brings it up on an almost weekly basis and I don't trust him because he frequently threatens to leave me and take the kids, since he has so much dirt on me. We hate each other and fight all the time but are staying together for the kids. They should be well adjusted adults one day because of it. What I'm trying to explain is this: Make sure you really know the person you plan on spending the rest of your life with. If you can not communicate with them then you should not get married, period. And when you do talk, make sure you discuss every aspect of the desire for kids, parenting styles, discipline, etc. Kids can be rewarding but once you have them, you can't take them back, not even for just a little while. If you decide halfway into your marriage that you no longer want to be married and you have kids, they become casualties and they didn't ask for that. And if you're even contemplating having an affair, be prepared for the absolute worst to happen because it is a lie and lies have a way of catching up with you. And to Nicki who commented that the screaming and the toys improve in a few years and it gets better when they're older, well I hate to tell you this but it doesn't get any easier. When your children enter the teen years you will be dealing with an entirely new set of problems. I would gladly go back to those early years in contrast of struggling with a defiant and rebellious teenager who is now much larger than me. Those days were much simpler.

One more thing, the comment was made that many women turn all of their focus on the children after having them and give their husband's much less attention. Yes this happens. There is a reason, especially during a child's infancy. They require constant attention. They are physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. Women, especially stay at home moms are usually exhausted. They are isolated from society much of the time because it is more trouble much of the time to get out with small children than it is to just remain at home. They often lack support from the outside world. A husband who comes in from work is also tired and has little or no energy to contribute to a baby. The wife therefore has to go about her job of raising little ones 24/7 without a break. No wonder she has no time to fix up or dress nice. When my children were small, my husband would come in from work and go straight to the la-z-boy. It would have been nice once in awhile to have an hour or two to devote to myself. So in most cases, the wife does turn her attention away from her husband when children come along, but what is the alternative. Lock the baby up in a quiet room and leave them to care for themselves? This is not realistic. And where should she find the energy to devote to a husband after going about her day sleep deprived caring for everyone but herself? Just a few things to consider before having that house full of kids.


Cathy 8 years ago

People only think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence because THAT"S WHERE THEY ARE WATERING IT! Get a grip! Focus on your own relationship and remember what it was like to be a couple. Once you water and nurture your own garden it will grow ...but not until then.


Scott 8 years ago

Being married is wonderfull . Having children is a privilege and honor. Staying married with children is the problem. It goes without saying ,children need parental love and physical support ,training and at some times correction. It is wonderfull being a big part of this. NOW let us NOT forget the marriage husbands and wives NEED Love and attention to.Time to Love ,cuddle play or a night out. Wives DO not abandon your husband or you will end up with children only ,who will leave you after your sacrificed your 18+ years of life and your husband who you ignored or left for children. Men and women are different in how they perceive things. Childrens needs and spousal needs are different. Let us honor our marraiges and stay married so children can have a ballanced up bringing. Husbands and Wives LOVE EACH OTHER AS YOURSELVES!


stormyweather profile image

stormyweather 8 years ago from Devon, UK

Hi Veronica

I am married, do not have kids and won't be having them. The reason is because all this *did* occur to me and I didn't want anything to do with it.


coffeeconnoisseur profile image

coffeeconnoisseur 8 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Excellent hub...

The thing that truly amazes me is that the guys who are miserable with their lives after children think nothing of what life is for their wives.

Do they realize that life has changed for them as well?

Their thoughts are only self serving! "Get me out of this". What do they think will happen to the children they were instrumental in bringing into this world. Do they really think that their leaving their family isn't going to touch the hearts of their children forever?

I am 53, my parents split when I was 6. I had a difficult childhood, managed to create a good life for myself and my own family... but I can't completely shake the 'baggage' of insecurity and distrust of men, in spite of my 25 year marriage. Those ghosts pop up at the worst times.

Guys, don't ever think that your kids won't miss you in their lives. If you are leaving because of all of the financial burden... what the heck do you think will happen to the mother of your children when you leave her alone with it?

Thanks for this hub... I hope more people read it.


Stacey 8 years ago

I totally agree with Pipedreamer...

Life could be easier if the men would also stop thinking about themselves and see how it effects their wives. I have been a stay at home mom to 3 children ages 4, 6, and 7 since day one. I did understand what was expected of me when I had children and I knew that it wasn't going to be a fairly tale life. I don't think my husband did though. I am very lonely and am in need of a change in my life (I am considering going back to school or getting a part time job somewhere). I am stuck in a rut. We moved out of state and I don't know anybody and it has been hard to meet new people. I am stuck cleaning and dealing with 3 kids day in and day out with no real support and nobody to talk to. I would like it if my husband came home and actually helped me out instead he gets on the computer or sits on the couch and watches me. Which of course infuriates me. Then he expects me to rub his feet or "love" him and what do I get in return??? NOTHING! There is no reciprication of "love" back. I am sorry, but I do this every minute of the day with the kids. I want to be "loved" without feeling like it is a job from him. I just want to sit and zone out on the couch for a change damn it! I feel like he is a 4 th child, who is very selfish. Isn't being in a loving relationship a two way street. It sure would be nice if I got attention and help more often. Doesn't a man understand that if you show someone that they mean something, you will get more return on the "love" investment. I am at the point where I don't even want to show him affection. I am tired of being dismissed. I work my ass off all day long, and I am sure he does too. But he should come home and work with me equally for the kids, he needs to understand that the job of father happens when he walks in the door. Not the job of couch potato/observer. Maybe wives could be happier. I can certainly say I for one am very lonely and would love a partner. I have told many people that I am just a single mom with a paycheck.


MOmmagus 8 years ago

Kids add a lot of stress to the relationship. Couples without the strong foundational bond will buckle under the pressure. Remember escaping is the easy way out. It takes a lot of work, heartache, comprimise, and self-sacrifice to produce a successful family now-days. OR, you could just be swingers.


Lela 8 years ago

I chose not to have kids because of all the above statements. I took some time to think about what I liked and didn't like, what I was and not willing to sacrifice and came up with the answer; dont' breed.

Everyone told me I was wrong to feel this way. Everyone told me I would regret it, that I'd end up lonely.

Well, no loneliness here! I'm stable, have a career and good income, plenty of friends (yes, some with kids!) and am on good terms with all my family, enjoy wonderful vacations and hobbies, am never bored and love my life.

Why should I change my life for something I never wanted, never desired, have no instinct for?

I read the things people say about being pressured into doing something and how miserable they are now. So sad...

If you want kids, then yes they are all worth it. But if you don't, the sacrifices are awful!


Mike 8 years ago

Insightfull and wise advice.

I'm a pretty commited Christian, and I find that I rely on my faith and the Christian community I live in to furnish me with this sort of sagacity regarding lifestyle choices & actions.

The contrast between the ways of my Christian friends & my non-Christian friends often leads me to a pretty cynical, unflattering view of secular attitudes to lifestyle. So I just wanted to say, I very much enjoyed having some of that cynicism dissolved after reading your response to these comments & attitudes.

(I hope I wasn't incorrect in assuming that you would consider yourself non-Christian)


Tim 8 years ago

Veronica you really nailed this topic. I have no idea why everyone thinks you should automatically have kids. This article should be required reading in high schools. It is a huge decision, and one of the only completely irreversible decisions you make in your life. It goes on and on.

I have 2 kids and I love them and all that. But if I had known what hell this would be I would never have done this. I see in the comments some of the ladies saying what about the unhappy wife. I remember when my circle of friends started getting married and having kids. I remember talking about it with my wife as we watched each one as the wife would change. I mean totally change. And the husband wouldn't change. I think it's him NOT changing that is as much of the problem as it is HER changing. Kids change everything. Maybe that's the angle - she rolls with it and he doesn't. We watched as all the women in our group of friends changed their appearance, their priorities, their likes and dislikes. It w as horrible, I didn't even want them as friends anymore. And we watched as all those husbands were more and more miuserable, not changing at all. Not changing their lives or at least not wanting to, for the children they had.

Despite watching ALL of our friends become miserable and shitty and have affairs and fall apart, for some dumb reason we just went along with the american model plan, and we had kids too. I think back to that now and can't believe i could ever be that stupid. Now we are in t he exact same place. My wife is completely changed. And I'm not. I'm like the commentor that says he dreads coming home at night. I can't stand to be in our house.

I've had 4 affairs in the past 3 years. My little brother told me tonight that he and his wife are trying to have kids. That's what promted my internet search. How the hell do you tell someone that you truly believe with every inch of your soul that having kids is the biggest mistake of your life?


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Mike,

Oh yes, you've assumed correctly. Thanks for your comment.

Tim,

My heart really goes out to you.

V.


Sexy Texan 8 years ago

I am recently separated from a wonderful husband/person/friend but I realized after almost 9 years of marriage that things weren't working. It wasn't a 'Eureka' moment or anything but after a big fight one night, I realized how unhappy I was and things needed to change....

YES, it was scarey...YES, the thought of being alone worried me but after all was said and done, I am SSSSSSOOOOOO happy to be single again! I can look back now and see how unhappy I was. I really let myself go, too...I put on ALOT of weight, I didn't care about my appearance, I let go of my interests and hobbies....I had a miscarriage early on in our marriage and I have to say that I am very happy that I did have a miscarriage. I am not motherly AT ALL! Most women are, not me. It was hard to leave the relationship but I have to say..........

I AM SO HAPPY NOW because I am now happy! I am single again and LOVING IT!!! I get to do what I want, when I want and with whom I want! I am so thankful that I am not 'stuck' in a relationship because that was not for me. I do not mean to put anyone down or make anyone feel bad but if you are miserable, you really need to weigh your options. I know that having kids can certainly affect any decisions you might make but your own happiness should mean something, too.


Indiana Dave 8 years ago

Good article. I am still married (30 years) and couldn't leave or abandon my children. However, An earlier comment by "The Dog: this isn't who he married".

I was 26 and she was 24 when we married. We'd seen lots of couples marry and make lots of mistakes (before and after marrage). I understand people will and have a right to change. However, I struggle with the question: would I have been attracted to and married a woman with this type of personality and attitude?

I am committed to "till death do you part" because of the effects this would have on family and friends. Maintaining romantic feelings , romance and passion is another question. I am not condoning extra-marital affairs: let this be understood. But wives argue and protest over their RIGHTS to change without any consideration of the hubands feelings. However, if the husband were to change like this she and her friends would roast him for dinner.

Changing of personallity and the husband being religated to a significantly lower priority are the two issues that infuriate men, MORE THAN LACK OF SEX.

Point number two (priority) seems to continue on until the empty nest syndrome. She then turns back to the husband but he is bitter of the last 20-25 years and hesitates to respond. This has happened to me and almost every man that I know.

Changing of personality and religated to a significantly lower priority.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Indiana Dave,

Thanks so much for your comment.

"This has happened to me and almost every man that I know."

I know this to be true for almost every married with children man that I know, too.

Best to you,

V


Eve Grey 8 years ago

Hey Veronica,

I just clicked on this link from your web page. I didn't know you wrote it until the end. Inn fact. for some reason I thought a man had written it & I was so impressed by it's accuracy. We have 3 kids & everything about this is bang on. People who have kids without knowing it's going to be HARD are idiots. People who have kids & then leave & shirk their responsibilities are idiots. No-one has to become a totally different lame soccer-obsessed person when they have kids. But, yeah, there are sacrifices to be made so ask around before having kids. I am so open & honest when people who don't have kids talk to me about it. I don't regret my decision for an instant & my husband & I went into this with eyes wide open. Anyhow, great article

(formerly Sassy Brown)


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Hey there Eve (Sassy)!

I'm so glad you clicked over from the blog. Thanks for the comment. I am glad you and yours are happy, having taken the steps toward what you wanted with your eyes open. It would be nice if more people did. You are the exception, and I'm so happy for you. I was just peaking at your myspace page and thinking about you, isn't that funny?

Best to you,

V


Eve Grey 8 years ago

Shite. I always forget to spell-check. A couple other points (I just read all the comments)... Children do not have to be all work & butt-wiping. Our kids are very funny, nice people who are fun to be around (when I'm not wiping their butts, ha ha).

I think one very important thing you may have missed is that couples should talk in fine detail about how they want to raise their kids, re: rules & such. Most people parent like their family of origin & this can creat enormous conflict if they differ. I think this has been a big complaint from the men I know.

P.S. Not all people with kids like to hang with other people with kids. In fact, I often avoid it because I can't stand more than 2 minutes talkig about kid stuff. I spend hours of intense time with my children & the last thing I want to do after they go to bed is talk about other people's children! Snore. Having separate adult, party time is so very important to being even a half-interesting individual.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

I totally agree, you and your partner have to talk about alot of things, and how to raise the kids is one of them Like I said in this article:

"Really think about this before you have kids. Agree on your ideas and plans. Will you both work, can you afford for one of you not to, consider day care, and school, and what your house is going to be like, and cost. Think about no more motorcycles or vacations, or whatever sacrifices you really are going to have to make, and be on the same page with your partner."

I love that you like some adult time. I can't even count how many friends I've completely lost because once they had kids they were incapable of doing ANYTHING adult anymore. I have even had so many former friends that refused to ever get a babysitter! EVER. They would actually respond to an invitation to dinner or a party or a club outing by saying "If my kids aren't invited, I won't go." I mean, what the fuck is that?? And, I guarantee you, several of them have husbands beyond miserable.

LOL @ Snore. I may borrow that some time ;)

BTW, my best friend has 2 terrific kids, and sounds alot like you in her approach to things.

Thanks, Eve!


confused 8 years ago

I am just wondering, what about married women? Aren't they also miserable. I do not have children, but I have a sister who is married and has a little boy and I know she is miserable with her husband. I know she wishes she could just run for the door.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

There is a saying, that a man marries a woman hoping she will never change, and a woman marries a man, hoping that he will.

Yes, we have heard from a few women, and i have gathered so many emails from this hub that I could write a book. There are absolutely women that are miserable, like your sister. After a couple has children and their entire lives change, and they lose themselves, sometimes the woman is miserable. Just as there are some men that aren't miserable, that surrender the relationship they once had with their wives and rededicate themselves to their children.

Part of the woman's misery is that the husband is so miserable. He didn't change. He still wants his life, and doesn't like the one he's been thrust in.

Part of why she is miserable, is that he didn't change.

The husband is miserable, because she changed.

In general, it seems to be this way. The woman changes. In general, her focus changes. Her priority changes. She makes the sacrifices and adjustments she thinks she needs to make for her children.

And in general, it seems to be the man that doesn't change, that misses his freedom and money and sense of self, and the romance he once had with his wife, and feeling like he is the number one thing in her life. He misses the attention and affection, and sexuality. He misses how she used to look, how she used to dress and the things she used to talk about. He misses their vacations and his motorcycle, and his weekends and his quiet bedroom and pretty house and sleeping in on sundays.

I'm sorry about your sister. I hope you'll comment again and elaborate.


robertsloan2 profile image

robertsloan2 8 years ago from San Francisco, CA

Excellent points you make in this article. If you don't want kids, and are sure of that, the time to work it out is before tying the knot. If you do want kids, be real about all that they entail. The changes in priorities, the changes in habits, the sheer cost of supporting another human being however small who is not another wage earner is enormous.

Once they are there, the time for that decision is over, and it's time for the decisions that can make the home situation livable. Or she'll move on. Sometimes it's not the man that moves on when one parent isn't committed to the kids. Sometimes a mother who knows she has enough economic potential to care for them on her own is going to leave, and find a man who's much better at fatherhood.

Fatherhood is much more than a couple of ball games or a fishing trip, or buying toys and treats. I have to brag here -- my son in law is a great dad. Airplanes, bicycles before walking, diapering, etiquette lessons -- "Can you ask nicely?" "Peeze" "There you go." Patience for the fiftieth time asking for a movie that's only on VCR when the VCR doesn't work. Cleaning up. The occasional firm swat delivered without yelling insults. It takes a lot to learn these skills, it takes a man with a heart and a mind and a lot of self discipline to apply them.

But those things are the things that make a mother look twice at a man and start seeing him as a good man. That is sexier than swanking around in trendy clothes or spending a lot of money on a meal. That's relief and lightening her load, and when she's less worried, she's going to feel more sexy and playful.

Solving money problems is something any couple faces as soon as they share finances, it's bad enough just with housemates. But not solving them inevitably makes them worse. Talk about the money and find out where it goes. A homemade tire swing in the yard may be just as much fun or more fun than the giant fancy play set from the store. Saving money and organizing finances so that what's needed is less than what's coming in and there is some extra after necessities. Spending that extra fairly among the wants of everyone in the family, including the kids, but wisely to get the most for it, is something that takes work.

Your advice about credit counseling or financial counseling is a good thing, vital to all of this, because a lot of people wind up making decisions based on expectations and ideas that bear little relation to reality. Or carry down bad habits from their birth families who had different resources and could be careless -- or even who have been in huge financial trouble. Credit counselors have a much more realistic view of resources and how to buy down debt and live within your means. That art has almost been lost in this country.

Mostly because a lot of real things get prioritized down to nothing and the phony social promises of various products and their advertising get used to stuff the mounting gap between reality and expectations. Time spent maintaining the relationship, time spent romancing has to still be on the agenda along with pulling an equal load with child care. Picking wildflowers or having the patience to listen to her day and let her vent can help.

The glue on the marriages I have seen work seems to be consideration. Not grand romantic gestures and a dozen roses, but a hundred times a day thinking of your true love's wish over your own. My grandparents were both always doing that. She'd think of the foods he liked to eat while cooking. He'd fix the gutters before she mentioned it. They were very old fashioned and their division of labor very gendered, but each in his or her own way, they showed their love in tiny tangible ways that made it easier for each other.

Today my daughter and son in law do things for each other constantly. They are much more egalitarian. "Let me take the baby's diaper." One will make off with the icky thing while the other puts the clean one on. One will make coffee for the other indiscriminately. So it's not the pattern of She Cooks and Cleans, He Works and Repairs, that's a lifestyle choice. It's that both of them are doing about 60% or 75% of the upkeep tasks on the house and the routine unglamourous side of child care -- the diaper washing and so on -- the net result of extra effort on both sides without resentment is that they keep the house a lot cleaner than I've ever seen a house with toddlers, they cut corners but never on necessities and wind up with spending money on the corners they did cut.

Money, time and attention are three things that need to be balanced, but an attitude of doing a little more than you have to for the other goes a long way toward making it work. But both have to do this. When only one -- either one -- is being that altruistic and the other just slobs off and doesn't pick up their end, you wind up with something other and ugly. Someone winds up being used.

Just some thoughts your article brought up. It's an excellent article, I hope people heed it and think about this either before choosing to have kids, or when finding a way to climb out of the emotional trap of broken expectations.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 8 years ago from NY Author

Robertsloan2,

Thanks so much for the in depth comment. I really brought additional value to the article, and gave additional insight and confirmation. I appreciate it.

Best,

V


CFSinceSix 8 years ago

I don't agree that children should be the #1 priority in a relationship. From what I have read, many times the fact that the children ARE the priority in a relationship is the reason relationships break apart.

I have yet to see anyone advocating the relationship FIRST and FOREMOST. One, you chose that partner and made a commitment for life. I firmly believe that many (notice, i did not say all) relationships and marriages would survive, and that infidelity would be thwarted, if people paid attention to their LIFE PARTNERS FIRST. Further, they need to be realistic about life, love, and partnerships. I think so many people get so caught up in the giddy feelings of lust that they think that is love. Love is constant action, not throbbing genitalia.

Also, I believe that if many couples work on their relationship FIRST AND FOREMOST, they'll stay the one unit they became when they got married. This is also especially important for rearing children. Parents may not always agree with each other, but then NEED to be a united front for the children. This is essentialy as guardians and providers for children. Children need this solid and stable foundation of united parents who are partners in life. Children are great manipulators. If they know they can pit mom against dad, they will.

So I'm not at all surprised that there is infidelity - for either spouse. I'm not at all surprised that people get bored (not just men, but women too). Robertsloan2 has an excellent post. Take the other person into consideration. Too many people go into marriage thinking they are getting a husband, or they are getting a wife, rather than looking at is as they are BECOMING a wife, or they are BECOMING a husband. So there's so much, "What have you done for me lately?" rather than, "What can I do for you?"

It's not just men, it's women as well. There are two people to a relationship and both are responsible for it - 100%, not 50% like so many erroneously believe. I like the expression, "If the grass is always greener on the otherside, you might need to start watering your side."

Great posts, Veronica. I have no sympathy for errant spouses (either husbands or wives) or the people they cheat with.


Staci 8 years ago

Wow, what a wonderful article. And all of the comments are so great too.

Seriously, my husband and I have been married for almost 5 years and we really do want to have children eventually. I think in about 2 or 3 more years. All of the information here has been so very helpful and I believe that everyone should be required to read it before they attempt procreation.

I guess we are on the right track with waiting, talking and taking each other into consideration. I told my husband about this and said that I refuse to have kids if he is not certain he can handle the enormous life change. He wants to handle it, in a few years. I appreciate how serious and harsh everyone has been. It is a good thing. My thoughts are, if we do it when we are ready and make sure that our relationship comes first, all will be on the right path. One child is all we can handle I think.


Spectrum 8 years ago

This site provides some interesting advice but bottom line- like anything else-you don't know what you don't know-there is a rush to conform and get married and then there is a rush to have children to cement the perfect relationship in a little cottage with roses growing up the door. Reality is somewhat different and I would suggest that the way kids grow up today is different to the way we were raised only a generation ago. There are more expectactions more opportunities and more distractions that you can feel you have failed if they do not have the latest gadgets or have been on the best vacations. It sometimes seems like a treadmill, on the surface it may appear that life is good but underneath it is often hollow and unrewarding. I loved it when my kids were young. I loved the stampede to the door when I put the key in the latch and the pure innocence of new human beings sitting in wonderment watching the activity of an ant's nest or pointing to a rainbow in the sky. It really makes you look at life again and the bond between parent and child undetrpinned by un conditional love was a magical time in my life. However those guys are now gone replaced by surley and demanding teenagers who are uncommunicative and just want to spend all their time with an assortment of friends (some good some bad) I find it tough and in a selfish male sort of way I am starting to look around for something for me as family life is now a series of revolving doors with people and friends just coming and going while I just drop them off and fund their activities. Affairs are tempting because affairs are sheer indulgence and escapism although I agree with a previous contributor, they always come with a heavy price to pay. Family life is starting to fragment and unless this can be reversed socirety will suffer in a future of dysfunctional people who can look no further than their own desires and when family collapses so does community. The academic research on broken families shows that children and young people do suffer when the security of marriage is shattered by one or other parent leaving the home-time may heal some wounds but the scars run deep and most selfless parents who are prepared to put their children before themselves try and work out solutions rather than bin everything. It is not easy but the rewards of raising well balanced well adjusted children - children you brought into the world- is tough to match against other life achievements. Work at it and if it it cannot be fixed despite both your best efforts-always put your children first,


stealinyours 8 years ago

Children don't come first at all! When a man cheats on his wife the whole time that they have been married because they got married for all the wrong reasons in the first place, makes sense to me because he didn't want to be there in the first place. Yeah he might love her because she gave him, his children but he don't love her enough to stay with her because he is unhappy. I wouldn't put up with my husband out all the time, disrespecting me in public, and not being there when I want him to be.There comes a point when enough is enough, right, when you are the only one holding on.


roddma 8 years ago

There are some people who believe you should be married and have children by your early 20's. even in the 21st centruy. What works for one generation doesn't necesasarily work for another. Couples feel pressure from would be grandparents and such.This expectation can cause trouble. Another thing. the media focuses so much attention on celebrities and their kids. They make raising kids look so easy. In reality, how many people do you know can afford a nanny or buy $1000 baby outfits whenever they want to go someplace? Come on really.


epifanny profile image

epifanny 8 years ago from AU

what great brutal honesty ...  thx so much Veronica.. so glad to see sumone that's direct without all the wishy washiness.. you tell it like it is and that's so refreshing.. my cuz has got it right.. retired and living in London now.. he has one of the most amazing marriages ive ever seen.. i envy their togetherness.. and this is coming from me.. one who praises and makes no apologies for my singledom.. she studies.. he travels.. thay have a only daughter who has never referred to her mom as mom.. and she is one of the most complete young woman ive ever come across.. they have total respect and encourage the other to be themselves.. take vacations together.. go crazy for each other even after years of marriage.. and keep each other on their toes..  i feel couples lack putting the effort into maintaining their marriages these days and with that comes communication breakdown... it takes two to make it work and share the burdens.. how much happier we all could be if we could be honest and loving..  great article .. thx for sharing !!


Ashley Ryan profile image

Ashley Ryan 8 years ago from Canada

Great hub!! Children do change everything, its too bad people don't realize this BEFORE they become parents...


StyleByCharlese 8 years ago from Orange County, Ca

Your honesty is refreshing. More people should actually think about having children and what that means, instead of just going for it or "accidentally" letting it happen. It takes 2 people to have a marriage (compromise, on both sides-each person needs to give) and our society would be better if parents took responsibility before having children.

I hope this helps people on the fence about marriage and children think deeply about the wisdom contained here. I am a hairstylist and everyday I talk with people who this advice would help. There's an epidemic of selfishness and shirking responsibiliy out there. If only more people would put on their grown up pants and deal with things in a constructive manner. We'd all be better off!


solarcaptain profile image

solarcaptain 8 years ago from california

Many couples feel trapped because one didn't ever want kids, didn't like kids at all but got hooked into the idea by a partner whose goal is to have three or four kids, and nothing will stop her, or him.

If your potential mate is diametrically opposed to not having kids, and you love the idea of kids running around, then both should consider some of the other alternatives that won't lead to the rocky times most assuredly looming ahead.

There has never been a better time to forgo the notion of bringing more children into the world. We have seen the tip of a problem that will certainly dominate life in the years ahead. It's called shrinking resourses and global warming. It's called an anomoly in the demand supply curve. Too many seeking a commodity will cause a shortage. the price will go up. I already shudder at the cost workers are expected to pay for things, not just doo dads, but necessities, like bread and eggs, milk, rice, and flour. Gasoline will fluctuwate in price and supply, reports are that oil supplies are now on the down side of plentiful and easy to get out of the ground or ocean.

Less people can afford to drive to that $10. an hour job, even while commuters breath easier with the easing of traffic. But there is a price. Crime will rise, especially in the "good" neighborhoods, simply because that's where all the goodies are. More laborers will hustle from the street corner to move a refrigerator or mow lawns or clean toilets, what ever it takes to buy a loaf of bread. balony and a quart of milk. A lower tax base results from unemployment so that the libraries shorten already compressed hours, teachers are fired, classes consolidated. Everyone seeks a bargain at the thrift store, at WalMart, while this drives prices up for the stores who enjoy little competition.

The licensed, the professional, the lawyer are not safe from the crunch. More will find that bonuses are very slim, healthcare insurance is being cut to the bone. Pensions are reduced or shown to be unsustainable by the numbers crunchers. A decent pension, once a given in corporations and government, is no more. And nothing is being done to shore up Social Security, which is rather ironic considering how workers are threatened from every side.

The stock market is feebly limping along, hardly trusted by the majority of investors. Put your money in the bank? 1% is the pass book rate. About 7% or more under the present rate of inflation... where the cost of food and energy was ommited so that the true figure of inflation of 20% is hidden.

I have some answers so everyone can think about having lots of babies, if that is their wish. Large families may be wonderful or may be hell, either which will eventually be unleashed, for predation or for competition for jobs, to pay taxes and to get involved in community and charity work. Perhaps to become a judge of the predator and remove his presence from society.

I am personally against abortion. There are families who want and cannot have a child. The issue is not to ban everything but to question the way we do things, and to change those things that contribute to conditions that contribute to poor quality of life. Maybe a ghetto doesn't lead to crime, but what is the social good?

There are countless stories of kids, when given a chance, to contribute and to participate in the potential banquet of life. They should get an even chance.

There is a book we all know about that predicted today's travails. Mercifully, this book offers solutions and consolation for those who are willing to open their hearts and minds. Time is running out for everyone. Everything that is good and worthwhile begins with love. It is our last and only hope.


lynnsdecor profile image

lynnsdecor 8 years ago from Lake Charles

Hi, I am pressed for time (I am a SAHM) But I want to jump up and cheer for this Hub! Right on! Ever since I had my daughter, NOTHING has been the same for me or my marriage. But we knew this going in because we talked about it and used our heads before taking the plunge. (plus we each had just gotten out of mariages where our spouses cheated on us) That said...I also want to share a story (I'll just give the link) about a family in such bad shape and on the verge of divorce...they sold EVERTHING and went RVing for two years to get the family back together. (http://www.berrytrip.us/Licia's_Story.htm) Extreme, maybe....but better than adding to the satistics of another broken home.

Thanks again...when I have some time I'll come back and read more of your stuff. ;-)

Michelle


Nikki 8 years ago

I agree with the points about accepting your responsibilities with children, but I think a big problem for men and women both is that they don't take responsibility for their own happiness. My ex left because he wasn't happy- guess what- he still isn't. I was happy with him and now I'm happy being a single momma. Too many husbands and wives expect the other person to *make them* happy. I understand there are exceptions where a spouse can make a person miserable by mistreating them or neglecting them, but if it is your responsibilities making you miserable, you need to learn to handle them or it is just going to be a different set of responsibilities making you miserable when you leave.


craigworrell profile image

craigworrell 8 years ago from Pennsylvania, USA

Well, I am new to Hubpages and this is literally the second Hub I have read. It is a great Hubpage! I agree with many of your points and as you can see people are passionate about this subject. I have been married for 15 years now and we have a lovely 14 yr. old daughter. I can testify that the union of two sexes can be very disfunctional. We don't usually know what we are doing and how to fix things that are broken. My wife and I have times where we could just walk away and feed our selfish desires. I am not sure what makes a man or woman just throw in the towel on something that they once valued sooooo much. It makes me very sad when I think of the generations of children that are brought into this world by the parents (not because the children chose to be born) and then abandoned. So many parents are willing to be part-timers because they just can't "get along". For those of you who have not yet had children, please, think about making a commitment to that child for the rest of your life and what that will mean before you plan on having children.


Unhappily Married with kids 8 years ago

I so fully relate to this article. I did not even originally want kids.That was my Wifes decision.She threw it on me very shortly after we were married. Sometimes I wonder if that is all that she wanted to marry me for. She got pregnant three times in a row. The first two SHE planned and our third was an "accident".I love the kids but I feel bound and shackled. It sounds shallow but my wife wears moo moos around the house at night now.Not very attractive. I just spend more and more time at work which has even gotten more stressful since the marriage and the kids. But I have to spend more time there because the credit cards keep becoming maxed out and the kids need this and that, and that and this. My wife hounds me about the small pleasures I buy for myself like games and CDs even t hough I make the most of our money as she is only a babysitter. I want OUT of this hellhole of a marriage but If I take that path I may lose everything including the kids. My advice for young men is DON'T HAVE KIDS!


Staci 7 years ago

Wow - Jeff's a little jaded. Not all modern American women are what Jeff explains here. I am 29 and my husband is 26. We still have sex all the time and both work. I make more money than him and I still cook, clean and bake him whatever he wants. He cooks and cleans too. I know someday he will make more than me. But it is not really about that. We are waiting for him to be ready for kids. It's about respect and love. I truly wish Jeff the best.


Staci 7 years ago

I enjoyed and agreed with www.martynemko.com and plan to be a working mother. Equality is important in a marriage. No person should ever totally depend on someone else. A lot of women are as you say here. But not everyone's marriage is misery. And I am confused. Do men want someone that will be independent and take care of things equally? Or do they want a submissive woman? The last few posts are confusing to me in that regard.


concern 7 years ago

if married men have to leave their wives in one way or another, it would be best if they'll do it 100% lie-free & just slap the truth in front of their faces. they all do deserve something better than just lame excuses.. because lies in all sorts do make them appear stupid. right?!


happily married 7 years ago

thank you so much, me and my husband got married in aug. 2008 and i wanted kids but now i don't want them right away, really i don't want them at all, we are young im 18 hes 21 and our life is good and i plan on keeping it that way. thank you so much :)


Amber Korn profile image

Amber Korn 7 years ago from Los Angeles County

Your view point is quite accurate. I think that a lot of marriages are formed because of an unexpected pregnancy. Which is not the way to start or base the matrimonial union upon. Unfortunately, it is a hardship on not just the parents, but, it is also hard on the children. As hard as the strain is for you is twice as hard on the kids. It also sets up a dysfunctional platform for future relationships in your childrens lives.


Gabby' 7 years ago

This comment is to Dave who is stickig it out in a miserable marriage for the sake of the kids whow beg an beg for him to come hom everynight. I was his mistress, lover. He loveed me so much but obviously loves his kis more and refuses to allow his psycho exwife damage them more than she already has/ therefore he has cut me out of his life. We see each other in passing with very , very sad and loving love in our eyes. He just can't accept life as a part time dad and will sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of his kids who beg for his return everynight. The hard part is that I know he is completely misrable as misses me terribily but feel his is doing the right thing for his kids. I guess then were having nightmares and wetting their bed while he was gone. But the mom was taking the kids to bed with her and praying to god for daddy's return. That is messed up in itselft. How much pressure that must have put on dad. I feel so bad that he must sacrafice his own happiness for the sake of the kids wellbeing. Their mother has dropped her role and motherhood and quit her jobs to make childsupport harder for her husband. She pretty much threatened him with never seeing his kids so long as he see me and didn't move back with her to take care of them as she never did anything with the kids. He was THE DAD. THe primary takecare. They are so bonded as child and father and I think He really missed that when he left for me. He fianally said he would love his life better with me but would never be completely happy knowing his kids were suffering with outhim. SO we are a classic case of Romeo and Juliet. We plan to get together when the kids are older. Can't wait. He is the love of my life.


Done 7 years ago

I have been married for 18 years now.My son is 18, daughter is 15 you do the math.However my kids are not the problem .My unattentive Husband is ! I have never been the jealous type.He plays "MUSIC" with his friends twice a week.Men talk about the way women change after they have kids, Men change once they know they HAVE you.I was fortunate enough to stay home while my children were babies but went back to work part -time as soon as they went to school.Now that they are in High-School I work two jobs and I am stashing money for the day when he finally decides to leave.When we met he was very spontaneous flowers small special gifts etc...But that all changed.I tried for years to maintain our relationship.We were living together when we got pregnant with our son , we decided to throw caution in the wind and quit using birth-control 2 months later we were pregnant.About the time when I started to show (5 months) things started to change he was no longer interested in sex .I overcame "that" thinking it wont be long and I wont be pregnant anymore.But that lack of attention was devistating I would lie next to him and cry because he wouldn't even hug me or touch my stomach to feel his baby move.I stayed thinking it was just a phase .We got married basically for income tax purposes But truth be known its more profitable to remain unwed you can get a lot of benefits if you are a single mom. Soon after my son was born I was back to my old cute self.Tanning at the salon getting my nails done 8lbs lighter than before I got pregnant and 2 cup sizes bigger.I tried to plan date nights . "I DONT WEAR HOUSECOATS" only PRETTY or occasionally "SLUTTY" nighties and only for about an hour before bed or after waking. I get dressed everyday even if its only a Tshirt and jeans.I have sat with a screaming kid in my lap and another jumping on the bed while putting on make-up and doing my hair.WOMEN we have to make time for ourselves.Being an only child I knew I wanted more than one child and I did not want to have children from two different men so I wanted to get pregnant again He went along with this and even though we only had sex about 10 times in 2 years I got pregnant with my daughter. I always knew I wanted children and knew what sacrifices would have to be made however I dont see it as sacrifices I have been tremendously rewarded with two beautiful children. I continued to pursue him romanticly but always felt like he was just doing his "duty" as a husband .He has been a GOOD DAD to our children,with some persuation I was able to get him to participate in outings with the children. Through this all his guitars and music night always took 1st priority,other than work (WHICH SOME WOULD SAY IS ADMIRABLE)but he was married to his job ,He is a skilled Laborer.I work in the service industry but my family ALWAYS comes first and have turned down jobs because of my kids and if that meant not having any "PLAY" money that week then so be it. He however was DEDICATED to the same job for 20 years ,the owner got OLD and sick eventually died his wife sold buisness and my LOYAL husband got a nice refrence.You may think this job was what enabled me to stay home with my kids NO I baby sat other peoples kids,cleaned houses KIDS IN TOW,even cut grass so that I didn't have to punch a clock.I was home everyday when he got home looking my best with dinner cooked and kids as content as kids could be.I mean that honestly I have been blessed with two very well behaved kids.Most nights he didn't even look at what I had cooked and hid in his music room.There is only so much a person can take. So for the past 7 years or so I have been filling my COFFEE CAN for that day when he finally has the guts to say I dont Love you,I have never Loved you and "I" will be free.He knows I am misrable and seems to take pride in the fact that I have stayed this long,he thinks I wont leave but the saddest day will be when both my children are on their own and "I" say I love You but now I Love me, more! I have raised my children now its my turn. My divorced friend says "I" will be lonely ,but what he(my friend) doesnt realize the loneliest Ive ever been in my life I've been lying in bed next to someone.SO HUSBANDS out there dont make the mistake of thinking all you have to do is work and pay the bills YOU my friend are wrong . I would have been happy eating peanut butter and jelly twice a week with my husband than eating those steaks alone and, wrapping his up for his lunch the next day. To answer your question NO I don't cheat ................. .....DOES he ??? The way I see it he cheated himself . To whoever has taken time to read this thanks I needed to vent. Feel free to send me an Email at hja103176@aol.com


Done 7 years ago

I have been married for 18 years now.My son is 18, daughter is 15 you do the math.However my kids are not the problem .My unattentive Husband is ! I have never been the jealous type.He plays "MUSIC" with his friends twice a week.Men talk about the way women change after they have kids, Men change once they know they HAVE you.I was fortunate enough to stay home while my children were babies but went back to work part -time as soon as they went to school.Now that they are in High-School I work two jobs and I am stashing money for the day when he finally decides to leave.When we met he was very spontaneous flowers small special gifts etc...But that all changed.I tried for years to maintain our relationship.We were living together when we got pregnant with our son , we decided to throw caution in the wind and quit using birth-control 2 months later we were pregnant.About the time when I started to show (5 months) things started to change he was no longer interested in sex .I overcame "that" thinking it wont be long and I wont be pregnant anymore.But that lack of attention was devistating I would lie next to him and cry because he wouldn't even hug me or touch my stomach to feel his baby move.I stayed thinking it was just a phase .We got married basically for income tax purposes But truth be known its more profitable to remain unwed you can get a lot of benefits if you are a single mom. Soon after my son was born I was back to my old cute self.Tanning at the salon getting my nails done 8lbs lighter than before I got pregnant and 2 cup sizes bigger.I tried to plan date nights . "I DON'T WEAR HOUSECOATS" only PRETTY or occasionally "SLUTTY" nighties and only for about an hour before bed or after waking. I get dressed everyday even if its only a Tshirt and jeans.I have sat with a screaming kid in my lap and another jumping on the bed while putting on make-up and doing my hair.WOMEN we have to make time for ourselves.Being an only child I knew I wanted more than one child and I did not want to have children from two different men so I wanted to get pregnant again He went along with this and even though we only had sex about 10 times in 2 years I got pregnant with my daughter. I always knew I wanted children and knew what sacrifices would have to be made however I don't see it as sacrifices I have been tremendously rewarded with two beautiful children. I continued to pursue him romanticly but always felt like he was just doing his "duty" as a husband .He has been a GOOD DAD to our children,with some persuation I was able to get him to participate in outings with the children. Through this all his guitars and music night always took 1st priority,other than work (WHICH SOME WOULD SAY IS ADMIRABLE)but he was married to his job ,He is a skilled Laborer.I work in the service industry but my family ALWAYS comes first and have turned down jobs because of my kids and if that meant not having any "PLAY" money that week then so be it. He however was DEDICATED to the same job for 20 years ,the owner got OLD and sick eventually died his wife sold buisness and my LOYAL husband got a nice refrence.You may think this job was what enabled me to stay home with my kids NO I baby sat other peoples kids,cleaned houses KIDS IN TOW,even cut grass so that I didn't have to punch a clock.I was home everyday when he got home looking my best with dinner cooked and kids as content as kids could be.I mean that honestly I have been blessed with two very well behaved kids.Most nights he didn't even look at what I had cooked and hid in his music room.There is only so much a person can take. So for the past 7 years or so I have been filling my COFFEE CAN for that day when he finally has the guts to say I don't Love you,I have never Loved you and "I" will be free.He knows I am misrable and seems to take pride in the fact that I have stayed this long,he thinks I wont leave but the saddest day will be when both my children are on their own and "I" say I love You but now I Love me, more! I have raised my children now its my turn. My divorced friend says "I" will be lonely ,but what he(my friend) doesn't realize the loneliest Ive ever been in my life I've been lying in bed next to someone.SO HUSBANDS out there don't make the mistake of thinking all you have to do is work and pay the bills YOU my friend are wrong . I would have been happy eating peanut butter and jelly twice a week with my husband than eating those steaks alone and, wrapping his up for his lunch the next day. To answer your question NO I don't cheat ................. .....DOES he ??? The way I see it he cheated himself . To whoever has taken time to read this thanks I needed to vent. Feel free to send me an Email at hja103176@aol.com


DrFinny profile image

DrFinny 7 years ago

I have a couple comments. One to the original hub, and one to "Done".

1- the whole argument about kids dominating your life to me is a falsehood. Them being a priority is different from them being the controlling center of your universe. There is still time for dates, and dinner, and trips. That's why there are babysitter sand grandparents. Either parent who forgos the attention of their spouse to "focus" on their kids, deserves to be left. Your spouse is and always should be the priority. If you have a good one, they wont expect to to choose between the two. And if you have a good one, they will SHARE the responsibility of the kids anyhow.

2- for Done: why haven't YOU left yet? You've already decided in you rmind it will happen. You are saving money for it, thus you have thought it out and plan on it. Why are you waiting and delaying the chance that you can be happy again?


stanleyreese profile image

stanleyreese 7 years ago from Alabama

I've always heard that "staying married for the kids" is wrong. Can't say I have an opinion either way. When my oldest two kids were toddlers (3 years old and 16 months old), their mom left us. I raised them on my own.

Now, they are grown and I have a new wife and a two year old baby boy, one year old princess and another on the way.

I'm gonna try it both ways and see if it's different: with two parents or with one parent. I'll get back to you in about 19 years. For now, I have the best job in the world, I am a Dad. If my co-worker (wife) gets on my nerves, I change cubicles and go outside for a while.


done 7 years ago

Dear DR Finny,

Thanks for reading,I agree that your spouse and (the two of you as a couple )should be first and that's what I tried to do for the first 12 years....

Haven't left because of the kids.It may sound silly but I know my kids would be different people today if they were able to have a "weekend dad' or what I call a Disneyland Dad this is when dad comes to get you every other weekend to sweep you off into a different world of ...NO rules ..NO discipline (Because of the guilt) then you come back to Mom who makes you Do your homework Say please and thank you,Clean your room etc..

Not to mention the financial aspect of it.My kids are functioning above grade level and both are college bound I really don't think they would have the same goals had they been raised in two homes I really think it would have been a power struggle .When the time comes and my children are both in college I will feel I have fufilled my responsabilities as a parent.THEN it will be MY time to be Happy and I will be able to live with my choices.For the time being my children bring me much pleasure and happiness.


Nirma 7 years ago

Hi, I am married and I am unhappy with my married life cauz we don't have understanding with each other she(my wife) cant hold her anger when I talk with other gals...dats not only the things actually she has taken my personal life....actually she luvs me very much but my problem is that now I have been fallen in love with one of my friend and she also love me....and we want to marry..but she doesn't know about my past...and I don't want to loose my love and i don't want to break my wife's heart...please help me


done 7 years ago

TO NIRMA

NOT THAT I AM AN EXPERT ON MARRIGE BUT YOU PROBABLY HAD PROBLEMS BEFORE YOUR NEW LOVE INTEREST.MY ADVICE IS TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOURSELF,YOU MAY FIND THAT YOU JUST ARENT READY TO BE THE OTHER HALF OF WHAT IT TAKES TO MAINTAIN A MARRIGE.


webhosting 7 years ago

You are right, parents will affect kids a lot.


Mn== 7 years ago

Goddamitt Janet! These stories are just awful! I am really shocked to read such sad stories. I really must throw it out there that you people are brave and I only wish the best for all of you.

My girlfriend and I don't have kids and don't plan any.

Jeeze I love kids, but kids are too much work. We enjoy our life. We are in love for over 10 years now, we take drugs recreationally, have sex all weekend on amphetamines, go out to see bands at the local pub whenever we feel like it, we sleep in, we take life easy, we share the workload, spend alot of time riding our bikes along the beach and canals, I have various hobbies, i have a music studio too, we visit and babysit our nephews, we never get too stressed about anything, we never have had affairs, we're together all the time and love each other.

If we had kids it would be one big fat ugly straight life that would end all the above. Kids seem like an ego trip for people who think they're so great that the world needs some more just like them, no matter how over-populated our planet gets. I love kids, and for that reason alone I don't have them. I think parants today are either brave or stupid.

Good luck everyone.. Lets hope xmas brings your family together and happiness is blessed upon you all.


embitca profile image

embitca 7 years ago from Boston

Great hub! All of the reasons you've laid out here are exactly the reasons I have never had children, despite the enormous social pressure most married women are subjected to on the issue. I never wanted kids. My husband never wanted kids. We are divorced now, but sometimes I imagine what would have been different if we'd had them --- we'd probably still be stuck together, hating each other, or I'd be stuck raising children on my own. No thanks!

I also feel that most people SHOULD NOT be having children unless they have given significant thought to all of the things you talk about here. And seriously, nowadays, parenthood doesn't end at 22. It goes on forever. I am in my 40s and I moved back in with my parents for a few years while I get my own business established LOL


hoTTnet profile image

hoTTnet 7 years ago from San Diego

I'd like to first say that as a 50 year old child my parents staying together did more harm than they will ever know. My dad was an alcoholic up until six years ago, and my mother was the classic "queen of denial" enabler. My father abused my mother though out my childhood and when he was finished with her, his anger was directed as me. I got to the point that if my Dad wasn't home by 5:30 PM I knew he was sitting in a bar and I knew what kind of night it was going to be. I used to crawl out my bedroom window and stay away from the house till all the lights were out and then climb back in the window and go to sleep. Many a night if there had been a gun in the house, I would have blown my fathers brains out for the physical, mental, and emotional abuse he put my mother, myself, and my sister. Believe it or not they are still married, 50 years. He's been clean and sober for the past six years. Although I forgave him as is part of his program I can never erase the sounds and images that tortured my childhood. My parents divorced for a year when I was 10. We moved back in with my grandfather. It was the best year of my childhood. Please if your in a loveless, abusive relationship don't stay together for the kids. I still find myself angry with my mother because she when back to him and continued to expose me to the abuse. Hers and mine. Divorce hurts and leaves it's scars but it's nothing compared to the scars that I suffered by my parents staying together.


bohica profile image

bohica 7 years ago

Wow! What a thought provoking HUB! And the responses are truly impressive!My bride and I have been married for 50 years, we have 7 children and 17 grandchildren. Our children have chastised us for giving them a false impression of what marriage was. When I asked what they meant - I was told that they never saw us argue or fight. I asked, "Have you ever seen our bedroom door closed?" They said "Yes, but we just thought that you were bumping ulgies." I told them that, that was the idea. That they would never know whether we were fucking or fighting." I said that their mother and I, having come from broken homes, made a pact that we would never fight in front of the children and that it would always happen be behind close doors. And there were some really vicious battles behind that closed door. And quite many fantasic loving making sessions also.

Maybe I do a HUB on the secret of having a long successful marriage.


Lgali profile image

Lgali 7 years ago

very nicely written


Amber90 profile image

Amber90 7 years ago

Not married yet, but I have read your first article covering this and this most recent one. You do an excellent job of being very forthcoming with information and very respectful of feelings (when deserved) Excellent write up - enjoyable read!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 7 years ago from NY Author

Amber90 - Thanks for reading me, and for commenting.

Everybody, check out Amber90's HUB on Safe Baby Gifts. Being someone that does not have kids, I NEVER know what to get for friends having babies. Good thoughts in that article.


G-24 7 years ago

Veronica, thanks for your input.

I've been with my wife for 11 yrs and married for 5+ yrs, and have fallen out of love since year one of the marriage after she basically, through words and actions, proved that whatever I did to provide a happy home was not good enough. I actually was going to tell her that we should split but during that conversation she told me she was pregnant first. I never told her what I was going to say, because I never wanted to be a runaway father or cause my wife to leave with a baby. It was not a planned pregnancy (at least not by me). Anyway I have stayed for my daughter only, but absolutely am not in love with my wife, and it's been this way for the last 4 1/2 years.

I had come to terms with this, fooling myself that I would never find the right woman even if I wanted to. However, during the last 15 months I have met "the woman of my dreams", and I do not type that lightly. I have not even let this woman know how I feel, let alone act on my feelings. That is primarily due to her also being married. I know it sounds messed up to even think about her, but being with her specifically isn't what hurts the most, because I know that's a pipe dream. Knowing her just kind of pours salt in my wound. The thought that concerns me the most is...how will I ever be a good husband and father (as good as I want to be and should be), if I'm miserable, depressed, and feel that my commitment to my daughter means that I will never be in love again?

If things honestly go wrong in a marriage with kids, is there an acceptable time for a spouse to leave?


Veronica profile image

Veronica 7 years ago from NY Author

G-24

If you aren't in love with your wife, it is the right time to leave. Be honest, be a man about it. Tell her the truth and get a divorce.

I know people who grew up in broken homes, and they are not nearly as guilty/fucked up as people I know who grew up in loveless homes where parents stayed together for the kids.

I have tackled this issue in a few HUBS. Here's one of them, different from your situation, but the advice is the same.

http://hubpages.com/relationships/Should_I_Stay_in...

You deserve to be happy. You deserve to be loved. Just be honest. Don't be a chicken-shit and have an affair. Your daughter will be a much healthier, happier, stable person if you are happy and honest. 

Good luck.


jennifer v. 7 years ago

great hub!


Chris V G profile image

Chris V G 7 years ago

Very interesting Hub!


ClaudiaP profile image

ClaudiaP 7 years ago from California

Thumb up for gpower2!

I don't agree with the romantic unrealistic views, but let's not be too harsh either.

One of your highlighted sentences says "Once you have a kid, you are no longer the first person you get to think about. Period." Well, I realized a while ago that living my life just for myself would be futile. Now I have someone in my life that comes before myself, and I am happy this way and satisfied. It is worth.


Sandilyn profile image

Sandilyn 7 years ago from Port Orange, FL

You are right. No one works on themselves or their marriages.

Why do people bring children into this world and then try to leave them behind? I just don't get the whole picture? Maybe it is because of who I am. I have always taken care of myself and the man I was with.

I have always put my son first. All of the time that I have worked he came first. I knew where he was, what he was doing, etc. Life is not a game.

Men grow up. Women take care of yourself and men do the same! Let us all be responable for our actions. If we are not look what happens to our children and to society!


fatactress profile image

fatactress 7 years ago from here

Wow, I have five sons and it hasn't been shit and giggles as you stated. It has been work and tears, you want to pull your hair out...and you make mistakes...but your righ,t in the end , if you want to raise kids the right way it takes time and commitment, did I miss out on crazy men with tatoos, parties and all that stuff..no,,occasionally I had a blast that's what baby sitters are fore anyway..blame it on the women and kids, but here's a secert I want to share.....men cheat because they want too..period.. you could be the perfect woman and do everything in your power to keep your man and right out of no where they're not happy and your to blame...Look at Jen and Brad..they didn't have any kids..what was his excuse? Its called lust, any man that cheats on his wife that fails to see his weakness is a pussy..period. Admit it..you failed in the loyality department..couldn't even keep your peter in your pocket,,,why blame your wife and kids. Im sure shes wanted to stay home and change diapers..yeah right. Theres no excuses, its not the kids fault, its not the ole ball and chain..its their fault. Quit making excuses for those that lack loyality and honor...


DrMom 7 years ago

I found this piece very, very interesting. What I didn't see fully addressed was the utter selfishness inherent in the failure of married parents who pack up and leave to, instead, roll up their sleeves and adapt. I'm finding it impossible to be at all sympathetic with men who get bored, miserable, etc. and deal with it by bailing out. I also find it incredibly frustrating the way society seems to give both a pass and a pat on the back to men who leave but fling a support check at their abandoned family. Have our standards sunk so low that all we expect of men who take vows and procreate is financial support? I am happily married to a man who, with me, will and does do anything to keep our family whole and healthy. The rarity of that reality - the apparent rarity of men with morals like my husband's - is sad.


Jo Brown profile image

Jo Brown 7 years ago from North of the Border

This is an amazing hub with incredible responses.

Veronica tells it like it is. Parenting is tough! Possibly the toughest, and yet the most important job there is, but there is no training for it. No matter how severe the description that Veronica has given, it can't really encompass the reality of the stresses of parenting.

People can say, oh suck it up and do your duty. But that doesn't really help when someone is completely confused by their role as a parent and cannot relate to the situation they have found themselves in.

There are some excellent free internet articles to help moms and dads figure out what their roles are and how they can take steps to enjoy being parents. This one for starters - http://parentingmethods.suite101.com/article.cfm/e...

Many others are available as well. A little research and reading will help a lot. When you find that there is actually a lot of joy in the whole process, family life can change. Men that have gotten lost in the confusion of a bad marriage and kids that they don't understand can get a grip on that and get some ideas on how to turn things around.

Great hub. Should be required reading, including the multitude of comments!


fatactress profile image

fatactress 7 years ago from here

Why do people expect other people to make them happy? I could never understand that, I guess I could be happy standing in a pile of sh*t..,,now when I was younger I expected other people to make me happy..but since have grown to realise that happiness comes from within..you are responsible for your own happiness, why on earth would you give any individual that kind of power over your life. People believe changing jobs, lives and people in their life's will make them happy, usually its a temporary exterior fix for an interior problem.


Jo Brown profile image

Jo Brown 7 years ago from North of the Border

I agree with your first comment that men cheat because they want to, and there is never anything about that to be proud of. No one benefits from that.

But lots of men don't come by parenting skills naturally. Lots of women are lost in the role too. Nothing wrong with getting some ideas to help. Hubpages is probably one of the fastest, best ways to get lots of ideas really quickly. Anyone can do a search on parenting. The first 10 hubs are excellent and you can click on the topic that concerns you and take a few minutes to get some ideas.

A person could go through 20 hubs in an hour and come out with some solutions to take control of a difficult family situation.

Then I would agree, quit your whining and do something constructive about the problem. There's lots of free and valuable help available.


The Other Woman 7 years ago

Reading these comments I am both moved to tears and feeling that one very common scenario is missing. I know of a few very unahappy men that were trapped into marriages when their girlfriends deliberately got pregnant to hold on to them. I know two very wonderful men who "did the right thing" and married their pregnant girlfriends and had the best of intentions to make things work. One of these men was a very close friend to my ex husband and I and remains friends with both of us 25 years later. For many years, this friend and I were attracted to each other but I was married and therefore off limits sexually. He was seeing a woman but not in a committed relationship with her. His job requires him to travel a lot and was being introduced to cultural experiences and a wider world view. He was also meeting women that he found attractive but didn't want to start anything until he was completely out of the casual relationship that he was in. He was honest about everything. She deliberately got pregnant immediately. Her timing was so exact that she predicted and was correct on the due date of the baby. My friend felt honor bound and married her.

That was eight years ago. They now have two children and their lives are perfectly described here. She is only interested in her kids. She treats her husband like shit and I have seen this first hand. He makes a very good living and has provided her and the kids with a very good standard of living. HE is a devoted father and despite being miserable in his marriage he is committed to making sure his children grow up with both parents. Five years ago, my own marriage ended but thankfully we did not have children and it was quite mature and amicable. We had that difficult conversation with each other about how unhappy each of us was and we decided to salvage the friendship that the marriage had been based upon and ended things.

My friend who is miserable but committed to his kids lives in another city but visits the city that I live in for business about two or three times a year. About four years ago we during one of his visits we succumbed to a mutual attraction that we resisted for twenty years because of our commitments to our partners. We had great sex but knew an affair was morally wrong and neither of us wanted to take on the guilt etc.

A year passed and during that time he did vist and we acknowledged that we were still very much sexually attracted to each other but we wanted our long friendship to survive and not be put at risk over an affair that may not last and would not do anything to help him improve things with his wife. I gave him many tips from a woman's perspective on how to get his wife to be more attentive and for him to think about what it must be like for her to be home with two small children when he is away so much. I suggested he get a babysiter and take his wife out for a nice dinner once in a while or take her to the other countries when he must go there on business or even give her a day to herself at a spa and he would take the children. He took my advice and tried to talk to her about his feelings and what they could do to improve things between them. She would not even acknowledge that there was a problem. As far as she is concerned the fact that have a big house, two healthy kids, two cars and money in the bank, everything is just fine. I have been in their company and all she does is make snide comments about her husband to other people and belittles his interest in world affairs or music. She doesn't blink to buy expensive things for the house but flips out if he buys a few books and CDs for himself.

But, he won't leave his children. He loves them, he is very much active in their day to day lives and says he will "stick it out" with her for the sake of the kids. In the past two years I guess you could say we have started having an affair although it is really only getting together about two or three times a year for great sex and long coversations. It is not right on my part but if the wife refuses to make an effort, she can't play victim.

All to say there is this side to the reasons why some men cheat on their wives. Most of all, whatever the reason, it is always a sad situation and even though they say they are staying together for the sake of the children -- I do think they are underestimating how onto them the kids are and the kids suffer for it. If the kids are suffering from being raised in a home where there is so much tension and misery, aren't the parents defeating the purpose by staying together for the sake of the kids?


fatactress profile image

fatactress 7 years ago from here

First if all, have you actually met this woman and have you talked to her? Or are you assuming that everything he says is true..everybody has a different perspective of their marriage, one person might not see a problem and the other may.

Point is he is with her because she matters to him in some small way he is commited to her, as well as those kids and don't let him sell you anything different.


teleassistência 7 years ago

Very nice topic for a discussion... Altough I think the coming of kids can change things, if you have cheated before, you eventualy will do it again with or without kids...


Ms Gabot profile image

Ms Gabot 7 years ago from Montreal

Geez... I have read all of the comments and although I do not have children, I wonder - what ever happened to having children and being happy? I will be 27 by the time I give birth this upcoming August and let me tell you... All these comments have only got me thinking. Is it really that bad? I fully understand that having kids changes everything but I also believe that like anything... A relationship and having a family is what you make it. I always say... It's only awkward if you make it awkward and I think that this definitely applies to this situation. I have already been married and divorced - so I know that things don't always go the way you planned and that you can't expect everything to be all pretty and pink all the time. But if there is something that I learned, is that we as individuals make what we want of our relationships. I think that one of the worse mistakes someone can do is to forget that yes we may be parents, but above all you are yourself. It's very easy to be caught in the everyday routine and not take the time to do anything for yourself. But I believe that all couples should take one or two days a month to go on a date. A lot of our friends have children and that is what they do to keep their sanity. And the same way that the guys go out with "the boys", girls should also go out with "the girls" once every two weeks. It's up to us to make time... Time won't just come up to you and say "time to hug your spouse" or "or "time to tell them you love them". Being raised by a hispanic family, I also believe that we should try to make an effort not to "let go". I have seen several women (mostly North American - now don't get me wrong - I am from New York) who have kids and all of a sudden, they don't wear anything but jogging pants and forgot that lipstick was even invented. We should want to look good for our partners and this goes both ways. If your hubby or bfriend always goes to the gym and takes care of himself and all of a sudden you have kids and all he does is gain 20 pounds and now has a belly... that might make a woman go somewhere else as well. Groing up, my mother always looked classy and beautiful no matter what. She taught me that taking care of yourself (in your own way - you don't have to have makeup on 24/7) just shows the other one that you care.

I guess that what I'm trying to come to is that if you each do your part, you should be able to get through the hard times as well. And that having kids does change everything but really it's what you make it.

If you cheat "because you have kids and are unhappy" - stop lying to yourself. The problem always goes much deeper than that and often you each have a part in the problem.

Communication is key. And as soon as you loose that - well... I think it's the beginning of the end.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 7 years ago from NY Author

Ms Gabot,

Judging by what you've shared here, I believe you and yours are going to be just fine! Exemplary, as a matter of fact.

Thanks for visiting, and adding such a terrific comment.

xo

Veronica


Ms Gabot profile image

Ms Gabot 7 years ago from Montreal

I hope so too! I'll let you know in a year from now :)


jeff 7 years ago

In response to fatactress's "happiness comes from within" that is so true in so many ways both apparent and hidden. Lucky is the person who realizes this reality early on in life. The key is not to depend on others for your happiness but to find happiness within yourself and share it with those that you love and who love you. Some dangerous pretenders take advantage of people who don't realize this reality. They give you the illusion that they will make you happy and when they get you in their trap they suck you dry. lol. They will give you a dollar's worth of happiness to feed your drug addiction and then take $100,000 worth of stuff from you. Be careful. They come in all genders and forms, both ugly and beautiful. How sad it is that the weak are so exploited in this world. In a way it is a good think life is so short, otherwise the weak would continue to live in misery for eternity in the world. haha.


Lauren 7 years ago

I been talking to this guy and recently found out he was married and has two kids, we only been talking for like two weeks or so. I told him I don't think it's right to be involved with a married man but then later I began to think its not harmful to have a friendship but he's told me he has tried everything even therapy and his wife refuses to go. He's told me how much he loves talking to me and that I make him feel good. I think it's just a void he's trying to fill because his wife is not providing love and affection toward him. He told me he doesn't want to get a divorce because of the kids and due to the economy he wouldn't want to leave morgatge payments up to her because he knows he couldn't afford it on his own. He wants to meet me ( met him online) and we've talked on the phone a few times. I know this is more then likely wrong but then again I figure if nobody knows about it - it can't hurt. I just don't know what to do or tell him. A part of me doesn't want to deal with all the drama that could come out of it and then another part of me is wanting to take the risk?? Should I just tell him I'm having second thoughts and don't want to take this any father then a friendship??


Word Scribe profile image

Word Scribe 7 years ago

This is an AMAZING hub! I should email this to my husband, whom I believe cheated on me and fathered 2 children with his MARRIED mistress, and possibly has more with other women he's cheated with back in the years before we got married. He thinks I don't know anything about it, and he and his whore have easily tricked her husband (his supposedly best friend) into raising them both, when he has no idea whatsoever. No one takes marriage and family seriously or respectfully any more. No one.


izettl profile image

izettl 7 years ago from The Great Northwest

Men are the ones who "think" they have an option to opt out of the family thing when it gets to rough, but (most) women can't even think that way- we are ulitmately resposible for the children whatever their dad decides to do. We can't opt out of motherhood- not if we're truly responsible caring mothers, but men seem to have a back-up thought in the back of their brains that this family situation is optional and they have "choices".

I have some of these troubles myself and could be close to losing my husband, not now, but in the next few years. He has stated, and it;s apparent, that having our daughter (1 1/2 now) has ruined us. He feels as though he is competing for my attention. Worse yet, the only way I ended up getting any sleep was when I finally surrendered (she was 10 months) to her sleeping in bed with me. I was so sleep deprived that I was laid off from work because I couldn't function (2-4 non-consecutive hours sleep per night for almost a year). My husband chose to sleep in another room when she was born so it wouldn't disrupt his sleep for his work. I'm upset because he's worried about his "other" needs and I am worried about basic needs- showering, sleeping, eating. Let me add that I get no time for myself. on most days. I do take care of my body, but not my hair and make-up anymore- NO TIME. I tell my husband that I need time for myself but it falls on deaf ears- we've tried counseling, but the counselor always sides with me and my husband then ignores his/her advice.

Someday if my husband and I part, it's not like I'd be blind-sided, but it's really all about sacrifcing personal needs for children that chase men away.


lindsayh28 profile image

lindsayh28 7 years ago

The reality of children changed my entire life and marriage. Last summer, my husband and I began to seriously consider having children. Then, the reality hit me and I realized that I might not want children at all. That was followed by the epiphany that my marriage was truly troubled. I left for 6 months. I've just recently moved back in. The dynamic between me and my husband is so different now. We talk honestly, communicate constantly, and are truly "in tune" with each other. Children are the last thing on our minds right now (if ever).

I know Regret's post is 2 years old, but I hope his conversation went well. To those in trouble, don't give up! I didn't think it was possible to love my husband again; I was certain the relationship was destroyed. However, given time and true communication, we've built something I never dreamed possible. I used to roll my eyes when other hopefuls talked like this. My next hub will be about this, inspired by this hub! Thanks Veronica!


OK 7 years ago

I have read alot of great comments on this hub. I found this because my wife of 10 years told me she thinks we are headed towards being an " Old Married Couple ". I love my wife and 3 year old little girl with all my heart, but men do become second fiddle to the kid. Sex goes out the door and personal time is non-exsistant. I have all but given up trying to be romantic, every time I try, it has to get planned or scheduled in at a later date. I have tried to tell her how I am feeling, even though I am not real good at explaining how I feel, and all it does is make her think I am attacking her. She is very busy and I work long hours, not by choice, when we do have time, she ends up on the phone and before you know it we just go to sleep. I don't want to get divorced and I hope she doesn't either, but I can't get her to let me know what she wants. I am very thankful for all that I have and my little girl is great, but is it wrong to have your cake and eat it too? I will continue to do all I can to make my wife happy and my daughter safe and provided for, but I sure hope there is light at the end of the tunnel.


Sexy jonty profile image

Sexy jonty 7 years ago from India

Very well written hub .....

very much informative ......

Thank you very much for your great hub, for good advice, good wishes and support. Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us.


Daddy 6 years ago

Well, Woo Hoo! Finally, someon that made me feel better! NOT!!! Yet another site designed to make ME(man) a bad guy! My wife and I sat down and agreed to keeping things as normal as possible when SHE decided it was time to start a family. I reluctantly followed suit, when I should have hit the street. I wake every morning wondering how to end my own life. I don't recognize US anymore. I have become nothing more than a PAYCHECK and a THREAT to my children!! "Wait until I tell your Dad".....is what my children hear and truthfully........I could care less what they do! My wife works full-time and is gone with the kids after work. When I get home, I'm alone. When she gets home she's exhausted. Thanks to children, I'm now a "Sugar Daddy/Roommate".....I carry the expenses and reap no rewards. Suicide has become my only way out. Thanks.


ferney1c 6 years ago

Regarding the fact that their wives seem to have forgotten them: I can see the validity of the complaints that men who posted on this forum expressed. However, if these men are leaving all the responsibility of raising the children to the women, they should not complain. A woman is tired after taking care of children. If you want sex, attention and beauty from your wife then give her the time and rest to be able to provide those things. You can not expect your wife to be the same when everything has changed. Both of you have to give in order to have time for each other.


roblo_82 6 years ago

This has been a great Hub. From a dad's perspective, i can say that most women don't really understand men in general. I am a dad and i work 60+ hours per week to make sure that momma and baby have SUPPORT. It is my duty and I am grateful to be able to do it. At one time I woked two jobs to keep things going but she complained that i was gone all the time and so I had to quit right after the baby was born. now she complains that we don't have enough money and have to be uncormfortably tight. I guess this is not as honorable as being a SHM but it sure as heck does tire out a man - too bad, it doesn't matter anyway.

At night,I come home and spend sleepless nights with baby changing diapers, being worried, feeding on demand, and pacing the house to get baby to calm down. I know about colic, reflux, and all that good stuff. Sleep deprivation is my middle name. I am not walking out. it was an unexpected pregnancy but I am doing the best I can to "adjust." It's tough but I have a life-long responsibility to my child no matter how hard it gets. I guess that does not mean anything.

This is not meant to brag, but just to show that not all men are egotistical, selfish, emotionally absent deadbeats who think of only THEMSELVES and SEX. I am not very happy with my relationship right now but things have been going this way for some time now. baby just tends to exacerbate the problems because of the sheer finality of the bond. I can say (cant speak for all men) that the reasons why I feel this way have NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX. I am unhappily married because of my own issues and because my wife (1)threatened to leave me if I didnt convert to her religion, (2) has all but tried to get me to neglect my family, (3) tends to control me by threats every time she can't get her way, (4) does not respect me or my opinions, (5) does not believe in working things out, (6) makes me feel guilty about doing anything remotely related to myself, (7) gives me the silent treatment every time i disagree with her. I cant talk to her because she does not hear me. She even threatened to walk out on me and the baby last week. No I have never cheated or even come close - i have no friends or people to talk to because she does not think its a good idea. This sux. "New moms are saints", please give me a break.


Mr P 6 years ago

I am having an affair with a woman I met on the internet 4 months ago. I'm married 14 years with 2 chldren. I am the sole earner in the houshold as my wife is a stay at home mum. and we do have financial problems, that I cant get my wife to understand, so i fell like I am drowing in debt at the moment. I have seen my mistress a number of times and I honestly feel like no other when I'm with her. our feeling for each other have blossomed recently, and we both say that this is so much more that a fling/affair, we are soul mates for each other. I am truly in love with her.

Now I feel torn as I want to be with my mistress, but I do not want to hurt my wife and my children. both of my kids are genuinely very happy children, and I know that if I leave, they will be broken. I do love my wife, but I am not IN love with her.

I feel ill with torment on what to do for the best.


Hollywood locksmith 6 years ago

I think a woman must not loss your sex appeal as a woman or you will just be your husband roommate.


Hopeful but it is trying my patience 6 years ago

Is there really a way to mend a relationship that is on the verge of breaking? My husband I have been married for 2 years and together for 8. We had our first son when he was away on military orders. He was away my entire pregnancy and returned 3 weeks after the birth of our baby. I regard him as selfish. It's as if something doesn't first meet his needs, then it isn't worth doing. He lacks initiave to do things that are not directly beneficial to him. Example, if we are both home and baby needs a diaper, guess who is the first to initiate the change, it is me. If it's any meal time who initiates cooking for our son, me. If our son's laundry is piled high who initiates the wash, me. Yea sometimes he steps up and does things he needs to but it seems like the large majority of responsibilities to our child fall on me. We both go are in college, we both make it work financially on a budget so we don't have to work full time yet he still finds a readon to excuse his lack of initiated involvement, He says, "I have homework", um so do I but I have to juggle having my school book in one hand with a diaper in the other pretty much. For him though I have to facilitate his alone and uninterrupted time to do his homework. My classes are online his are on campus so I rarely leave the house alone and when I do, I feel as though I am rushing back to accomodate his schedule and his needs. He gets to shower every day and take his time to get dressed, God forbid I blow-dry after I shower because I taked FOREVER to get dressed. It's as if any time it's him and our son he is just waiting for the hand off moment. Sometimes I feel like why can't a dad Be a mom. That's not to say that I don't have my faults. I know I do. We are going to counseling to try and address our issues and do our best to change them. We just started. I see some positive changes. I am trying to give credit to the positive changes and hope that more will come but it is difficult. I keep telling myself Rome wasn't built in a day. Change takes time. It is so very hard though. I told him that if he wanted it I was prepared to go to counseling together but I was also prepared to seperate from him and eventually divorce. He opted for the counseling route but sometimes I feel like he is all talk. He says he wants things one way but acts another. Am I naive in thinking that therapy can help? Will it get harder and worse before it gets better? Or will we just realize that we should divorce? I love him but I need him to change just as I plan to work on changing what it is about me that makes him unhappy. Should we put our faith at the possibility of success in time? Please encourage me to not give up, please let me know that my patience will pay off but let me know if I am truly the most naive individual ever...


Twisk 6 years ago

I love more sweet little daughter with all my heart. I'm completely committed, and I had a very good idea about what parenting was about, as I became a father at 40 and had seen friends and family raising children. My wife is now pregnant and nothing will stop me from giving the same commitment to the new baby as I have to my first child.

For the last 6 years or so I have been optimistically waiting for things to improve in my marriage. My wife went off sex almost completely long before our first child was born. When trying for children I was frequently told to "hurry up and finish it" (hardly inspiring). Her attitude to me physically isn't only in regard to sex. She refuses even to kiss me unless I press the issue and even then it's quite obvious that she doesn’t wasn’t to do it. I have never cheated on a partner in my life. We have discussed my concerns regarding our marital problems at length over may years and a year or two back my wife suggested that I go to visit a prostitute. This really isn't my style, a quick fuck isn't what I'm looking for and I don't feel comfortable treating another human being as a commodity.

My wife has little interest in most subjects I try to raise in conversation, and quite literally doesn’t listen to what I'm saying at least half of the time, despite the fact that this angers me. She is also frequently bad tempered and bossy, not only to me but other people she comes into contact with on a daily basis. I'm a very tolerant and loving guy. When got married 8 years ago there was no doubt in my mind that we would live life and grow old together and despite the difficulties I was prepared to carry on hoping for the best until recent events unfolded.

I have always found one of my work colleagues (a single woman in her late 20’s) to be very attractive. She dresses well, has a stunning smile and radiates happiness throughout the office. I never gave my attraction to her any serious consideration, it was just an idle fantasy, I am after all a monogamous guy aren’t I? When a mutual friend at work let the cat out of the bag that she’d fancied me for years it hit me like a ton of bricks. I had been concerned that she’d always been a little shy or stand offish with me because she might have noticed me looking at her. I was anxious not to appear unprofessional so I always felt a little awkward with her. Now we both know the truth. Nothing has happened physically but we now when we meet in the office we gaze into each others eyes and grin like Cheshire cats. There’s no helping it. I think about her all the time.

My wife is a good mother, I care about her very much and I don’t wish to hurt her. As a family unit we work very well together in raising our daughter. I’m sure that would continue with the new baby. My children’s wellbeing will always be my first priority but I really don’t know what the hell to do now. I seriously doubt that my wife would ever notice if I did have an affair. She never asks where I’ve been or what I’ve been doing or what I’m thinking. This is very painful right now. Can I really live the next 20 years until the kids grow up without affection or companionship (aside from in parenting) in my relationship? Help!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Twisk,

The fact that your wife told you to go to a prostitute is just stunning. I can't get a grip on your relationship at all. You sound like your marriage is miserable. But it does sound like you two raise kids well together. Maybe you could just talk to her, and tell her about this coworker that you're interested in. I mean, if she doesn't want to sleep with you and can't even have a conversation of interest with you, and has told you to go to a prostitute in all seriousness, then she shouldn't have a problem with your dating someone else. Right?

Even if she isn't easy to talk to, you can't go on like this. You have to be honest and initiate this.


Twisk 6 years ago

Hi Veronica, Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. Your advice has certainly helped me clarify my thoughts to some extent, but I don’t think discussing my feelings for my co-worker (she’s my accountant actually) with my wife would be a good idea right now. The reasons for this are quite complex.

I can appreciate the difficulty you might have getting a grip on our relationship. There is a cultural context here in that I am European, my wife is Asian and we live in her native country where we run a small export business. This is not the root of our problems; my wife is a degree educated business woman who had traveled in the west long before she met me (this is not a mail order bride marriage gone wrong by any means). I like it here, I’m quite well assimilated culturally and I understand the different attitudes to sex and relationships fairly well. Essentially my wife suggested that I visit a prostitute because (as she sees it) I’m unhappy, she wants to help, so I should do what most local men do and go get laid (rather like having a tooth pulled). As long as I use a condom, don’t love the girl, and don’t talk to her about it, she wouldn’t be greatly concerned. The main problem with this for me is the ‘don’t love the girl bit’, that just isn’t my style. She had a similar attitude on a couple of occasions when I relapsed and smoked cigarettes for a week or two before stopping again. She hates smoking, she knew I was doing it, she would say nothing if I stank of tobacco, but she would fly off the handle and scream at me if she actually saw me smoke. I’m not sure that getting things out in the open is going to help at all.

Also to complicate things further she meets my accountant a couple of times a week to sign papers etc. If she took it very badly it could cause at least short-term damage our business/livelihood (we’re in debt already). I’m really not sure what my accountant might be looking for in a relationship either. She might want me to leave my wife, which I probably would do if it weren’t for our daughter and the new baby and our strength as parenting partners. We do function well as a family, we have some great times playing kids games, going on family outings etc. I don’t want to risk damaging that however hard I would work at being the perfect divorced Dad. My accountant may be happy to have a secret affair, but will that be good for her in the long term waking up alone everyday like the ‘Lonely’ lady who wrote to you. Or is the best thing for me to carry on as I have been with the woman I’m falling out of love with, to avoid hurting anyone else. If I do that I can have guilt free fun with my kids and enjoy my wife’s cooking (the one and only thing she does make an effort to please me with is her cooking). However I will be living with little or no physical affection and little conversation outside business and parenting (it wasn’t like this for the 1st couple of years of marriage). I’m not a particularly clingy or needy guy, but the situation that has arisen with my accountant has really brought it home big time that I’ve been missing out on something very important for a very long time. I don’t know if I can put that genie back in the bottle now.

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen, it helps a lot.


Deborah Demander profile image

Deborah Demander 6 years ago from First Wyoming, then THE WORLD

You provide a much needed service, and your advice is great. Having kids changes everything for women too. I stayed with an abusive jerk for twenty years, because we had six kids. When he turned his wrath on the kids, I finally gathered the courage to leave. It was the scariest and best thing I have ever done.

Keep writing, Namaste.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Deborah Demander,

I'm so glad you got away! So scary how some people can be so cruel. Best to you!!


Yep... 6 years ago

I agree totally with the article...that's why I'm staying until the kids get into college and then I'm off to see the world-by myself!


Angela 6 years ago

I appreciate your straightforward honesty. Most people sugar coat everything, and almost nobody "tells it like it is". So glad you are willing to do it. :)


evan 6 years ago

veronica I just want to tell you that this hub saved my marriage. i was exactly like the person you described. we should not have had kids. we had no clue what we were getting in to. we were not prepared. and my wife changed so much. i was so miserable. i could not live life any more like that. i was googling for advice and found this. it was a year ago. i did what you said and told my wife we had to talk. at first she refused, kept walking away from me. but i kept after her and kept telling her i was ready to walk out. either she had to listen, or a divorce lawyer would. she locked herself in the bathroom. i sat on the floor outside the door and just told her everything. i did not even know for sure if she was listening. but she was. she came out hours later she had been crying but she said she wanted to talk.

we couldn't agree on much but i was trusting you advice and thought much of what we both were upset over might get fixed if she had more time. i talked to my boss and it was easy to change my schedule to go in an hour later. i just take only a half lunch and i stay a half hour later every day. at first she didn't want to get up she just wanted the extra hour sleep. then she started getting up and like you said would go to curves. she did not want to get made up that early in the day but thats ok. she started doing it later.

she wanted more time to herself and i could really see the difference it was making so i was all for it. it wasn't that hard. we found a local high schooler that comes over one day a week after school. it's just one day a week for an hour and a half to two hours. my wife goes and gets her nails done. i think the manicure is around ten and the babysitter is another ten. i can swing that. i go out of my way to take the kids more and give her a break and it had completely overhauled her personality. now she wants to take a kick boxing class three times a week. we're figuring it out, maybe like you said the grandmoms can step in.

she is back to caring about her appearance. she wears make up and shoes again. she isn't always tired and mad at me and resentful acting. we are physical again. i sent her flowers for no reason this week and boy did that ever make her feel great. it is so simple it is embarrassing. these answers were so simple and right there in our faces.

i want to thank you veronica. it was so easy to just give her time to herself. it has made all the difference in our marriage. i will be honest, and admit i don't love her like i did when we got married. but i am not miserable anymore. we have a good relationship. we are friends again. i don't dread going home. i look forward to it. i am mostly happy again. i know i can make my marriage work now and be happy. thank you for this.


Steve 6 years ago

I've only read a few of the posts and gonna print out all of these and read them later. Right off the bat I can relate to so many others. I have been married for 15 years and knew my wife 3 years earlier. I met my wife when I was 22 and married at 25. I have been unhappy for at least the past 5 years. I have two children and of course love them more than everything but I miss so many other things. Sex is usually quick and now that the kids are getting older most of the time is not a "good time". Some nights I can barely stay up past ten o' clock because I work long hours. I work so hard as does my wife and we barely make ends meat. Saving for the future or retirement is not realistic. I can't stop thinking about meeting somebody else. I have never cheated on my wife but I'm afarid my urges will lead me to cheat someday soon. I simply miss the touch and company of another woman. I haven't kissed or even held hands in years. I'm older but I'm not dead. I keep myslef as busy as possible with the kids to help me forget just how unhappy I am. I hate it when I hear people say if your unhappy you should just leave. Oh, I wish it was that easy. It's not even that I hate my wife or anything like that but I just don't feel passion anymore. I can see why married men cheat. I might be that person one day soon. I can also see why men don't leave their wives and nice homes then cheat. Why lose everything first then cheat? Maybe if I cheated and later realized that the grass wasn't greener on the other side then maybe finally I can put all my wonders aside. I just want to be happy. I just want everyone to be happy!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve,

Thanks so much for commenting.

I wrote a Hub directly to you, posting it now. I hope that you will read it.

http://hubpages.com/relationships/Married-Men-Befo...

In it, I point out another Hub I wrote, Affairs with Married Men.

Please, before you do anything, please consider reading it and some of the comments. It's so incredibly destructive what an affair does, to absolutely everyone. It's not the answer.

http://hubpages.com/relationships/Affairs_with_Mar

I just received a comment on that one, from a person named "Sue" that really just reflects so much of the pain and confusion and damage, and ends with what example was set for her step-son. It's brutal, but I hope you'll read it.


Sue 6 years ago

Steve,

I'm a wife who's husband cheated on her for years...I found the hubpages when I started googling "other women" because I didn't know what else to do when it seemed that no one else close to me had cheating spouses like mine. I hope you read through the long lists of posts on this hub and Veronica's other hub about Other Women, about After the Affair. If you read through all those posts from so many hurting and so many people who were damaged and you still choose to have an affair before leaving your marriage I would say God help you, because you'll need it. If I could send you in my husband's direction (he'd be mortified if he knew what I've posted out in the anonymity of the web...but for me it's just a way of getting something off my chest) I would. He's not happy. I'm not happy. I know our older kids know this, I know our families, sisters, brothers, parents know this...our younger kids probably sense it but don't understand it...sadly enough we didn't have to get here. It was a selfish choice on my husband's part to have affairs. I see that you have written it's more or less a lack of passion. (I will be honest with you, that wasn't our case as my husband and I managed to have another child after the affair became known...not that I would recommend this to anyone but I love my youngest so I'm not going to regret his birth in the slightest but I realize it might not have been the wisest course of actions everything considered) Have you honestly talked to your wife and explained all of this? Really sat her down and let her know that this is the most serious conversation of your married life? If you love her please do so. And if you know in your heart that you need to be with another woman please do it the right way and separate from your wife, get divorced, support your children and then move on. Most men don't marry or stay with the women they have affairs with. How can a relationship built on lies, lies to your wife, lies to the other woman, be a solid good relationship? How can it last what life throws at you, the ups and downs, based on a false start? How will you feel about yourself? Many married men who have affairs then suffer from depression? Would you want to tell your kids about what you did? My husband can't approach the subject with his son, whom he drug into the relationship (which he did from what I understand-or perhaps this is a lie also-to convince his ow that he was separated from me...why would a man living with his wife bring their kids around the ow?) but my step son is in pain about the situation. He's even felt at times it was his fault because he didn't tell me. Being a teenager is hard enough let alone having to deal with this situation that didn't have to be. Yes, I would have been upset to get divorced all those years ago, but it would have been a lot less of a mess for all of us involved, including my husband. I am sorry this is such a long response but I hope it gives you a reason not to have an affair, or at least give you something to chew over in your mind...no one will be happy, not even you I believe, if you have that affair...


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Sue,

I really feel for your step-son. He's the one I relate to. That's how I grew up. And the damage is just unbelievable.


Steve 6 years ago

Sue & Veronica thanks for your comments. I recently checked the site and didn't expect a response so I was glad to see such helpful and informative ones. I would like to elaborate just a little bit more. My wife was never affectionate from day one. I used to bring this up when we were "young and in love". She would change for a week or so then back to her old self as always. I'm almost ashamed to say because men don't really say these things bit I enjoy hugging, kissing, necking but my wife and I have never really done these things much and haven't for many years. The sex and foreplay was always there but I do miss the other things. We've both let ourselves to the tune of maybe 25 lbs each and I think we hit the point of no return (romantically that is). The years are passing and I feel the need to feel good again. I feel as though I am "missing out" on things. As far as my home and children I would consider myself a rich man and couldn't ask for more. One month ago we had an argument and I nearly left for good. She cries in front of our children which makes me look like the beast. I say to myself "if they only knew facts and not just the tears" We never agree on anything. I have to get angry for my opinions to matter and it's always the wiser choice. I'm not an angry person by nature. I know I have my faults too and often try to regroup and push forward with a better more positive outlook. I keep going around in circles. I created a profile on a dating website but didn't add my picture yet only because there are lies involved and that makes me reluctant. I work in a construction facility so meeting someone at work is nearly impossible. Maybe I should just find a good strip joint or massage parlor?? The only thing stopping me now is when I hear people say they don't want kids or marriage is the thing of the past. I feel sorry for those that never had children. It's not their fault I feel this way and it's not my fault either. It's just two people grown apart. I just dont' know if the single life is any better. It might be in my future. I just don't know what's best for ME. I need more happiness! Please don't attack my comments because they are true and from the heart.


Sue 6 years ago

Question Veronica, if I email you at the contact Veronica, those emails aren't posted, correct? If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to say a little bit more about my stepson and my other children but I'm out of my comfort zone now, posting about my kids in a public forum. I guess it would be good for me to hear perhaps what you could say since you say you grew up this way...


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Sue,

I will not post any email you send, and your email addy will not be shared. You're safe.

V


Sue 6 years ago

Steve,

No attack at all from me, please don't take it that way, just giving you some of the horror of my experience in hopes that it will give you something to think about it. I guess we aren't so far apart in what we want, I don't think many of us are. Many of the things you've mentioned I want to, closeness and affection and of course passion so I in no way shape or form blame you for that. And people do grow apart. I would just say from my experience I don't think having an affair to see if it would be better would be best for you but that's just my personal opinion. Mostly I guess because you would have to live with the fall out. And so would your family. I don't have an answer for you unfortunately, you will eventually have to work out your situation on your own but I am guessing since you too wrote in that you wouldn't mind hearing from others...if I were your friend and we were sitting together talking I'd tell you the exact same thing...that from my experience I haven't seen a lot of positive come out of affairs.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve,

Definitely no attacks and no judgments. I still give you alot of credit for trying to be honest.

You may be right, it may be too late. And if it's over, then it's over. Get out. Stop with the wanting your cake and eating it too. Just man-up and do what you need to do. Leave your wife honestly, so that you can both have some dignity and so that your kids can respect you.

I'm 43, and I'm still that kid that grew up in that house, with the cheating father. Your wife sounds alot like my mother - not affectionate, would always scream infront of me, always made my father out to be the bad guy.

But instead of setting a decent example, he cheated. And she never kicked him out for it. (And then there's a whole history of the mistresses, especially the one that started leaving feces on our doorstep when she figured out she was one of many and he had lied to her, too.)

Steve. I swear to god, had he just ever been honest and said "I can't do this anymore," and divorced her, I would have grown up respecting him. Sure it would have been hard for a little while, but I would have loved and respected him for treating all of us with dignity. I would remember him as a man. It would have set the example of honesty, trust, and self respect, and I wouldn't have spent the first half of my life fucked up and lashing out because I lacked those things.

But no. Instead of being decent and real, he had affairs. Instead of teaching me self resepect, he taught me how to be liar and a cheat. He taught me no man is trustable. He taught me my entire childhood was a lie.

I will never forgive him for all the damage he caused.

Now, it doesn't matter what went wrong between the two of them. It doesn't matter that he was right and my mother was the cause. It just doesn't matter. He erased that. All that matters is that he handled it like a piece of shit lying asshole.

He's dead now, and when I think of him, forever, for the rest of my life, the very first thing that comes to mind - coward.


Jake 6 years ago

Steve,

I'm going through the same exact situation, in fact, my situation is so similiar to yours, it's scary. I've been reading this posts for months looking for answers. I've sat down with my wife and completely layed out how I felt, she's felt the same but didn't think it was that bad. Like you, I don't want to live my life miserable just for the kids. I've been married for 10 years and have been miserable for the last 7. I keep hoping things get better but I'm digging my self deeper into a hole (ie. new house, another baby).

Like you, I growing tired of the "maintence" sex, meaning "I'll do it but it's realy not that important to me". She's changed so much since we had kids. I love my kids but I miss my wife. I told her all this, she says she gets it and changes for a week, but keeps going back to the same patterns. I talk to all my married friends and their in the same position. Of course, I thought about an affair but I don't think that would get me anywhere.

At this point, I'm starting to mentally check out of my marriage. I'm starting to look at the finances and what child support and alimony are going to cost (I have a freaking spreadsheet). I am just concerned about the kids at this point and trying to figure out the smoothiest way to move on with the smallest impact on her and them. I will absolutely support them and I will continue to be the best dad I can. I think it's just a matter of time but I'm not sure when that is going to be and if I can make it. My kids are fairly young so, I think the sooner the better.

Long story short, your not alone man.

Veronica, love your blogs...keep it up.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Jake,

Thank you. And thanks for commenting.

It is very sad that your wife actually understood and validated what you tried to tell her, but that she just either didn't want to, or couldn't, reconnect to you romantically for good.

You're right - you and Steve are certainly not alone.

Namaste


Mark 6 years ago

Dear Veronica

Thanks for the insight on this page and all your others. I discovered it today and put aside all my studying because it was so captivating.

I'm a 29 year old male and I have happily been with my girlfriend(28) for 2 years. We've been through a painful abortion (she came off birth control without telling me, she claims the doctors told her she couldn't get pregnant soon after coming off. I'm willing to go her on this.)

The abortion was shocking for both of us. For her, she has always wanted a child and for me it was a case of realizing the tremendous responsibility was about to unfold. She's has recovered quite well I believe but I know she still wants kids. Just before the taking the abortion pills, she asked me to promise that one day we could have a baby together. Under the strain of the moment, I still answered

that we could address this issue in due course.

From this whole experience, I have learnt a lot about myself and done a lot of research about kids. I've never really felt the desire for children (let alone marraige) - the reasons are numerous e.g. I suffer from depression, low self esteem, feel my genes are not something I want to pass on, financial implications, time and emotional sacrifice etc. Like many men, I love kids, just not my own. In fact, I teach kids every day and I love interacting with them, but am intimidated by putting up with them 24-7-365*20 something. Another affect of the abortion is that I'm totally off sex. Maybe only have it once every month or two and that still feels forceful. As you can imagine, my gf is concerned about this as am I.

The question I have (sorry for taking so long to cut to the chase) is how should I approach my girlfriend, who is getting broodier these days, and let her know how I feel. I realize that this means we might need to separate for her to move on. I've prepared myself for that. In fact, I have and still do feel guilty in this relationship because I don't want to hold her back from getting what she wants from a married life.

The clock is ticking each day and she often brings up questions about "our kids" and what they may be like etc.

While my gf and I are not the most attractive people (and hence might find it difficult to find someone else out these) in the world, we are generally happy with each other. I just can't help feeling that if she compromises and doesn't have kids because I don't want to, she will regret this tremendously and hold me accountable in the future.

There are lots of things to ponder here. I guess I should just tell her exactly what I've written here. Any advice?

Thank you tremendously.

Mark


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Mark,

You absolutely made the right decision.

And you're right, you do need to separate if she's actually asking you to promise to have kids one day. She sounds very sweet. She wants a life different than you want. I don't know if she realizes how much having children changes things, or even if she is "hearing" you as her partner saying you do not want kids.

I feel very bad for her. Really, my heart goes out to her.

You need to tell her the absolute truth, and you need to let things separate. You can't give her the life she wants to have. She will not allow the relationship you have with her to be enough if she wants children this badly. She will never be happy with you.

I'm very very proud of you for researching, reading, thinking, articulating, and making the right decisions for yourself. Having a child changes the rest of your entire life in a very big dramatic way. Forever. Way too many people, especially men, do it without thinking it through.

This is going be hard. I do not envy you. But I really am proud of you, and I'm sure you will handle this separation the best you can.

Please keep in touch.

Namaste.


Mark 6 years ago

Hi again

Thanks for clearing things up for me. I haven't taken the 'telling my girlfriend' plunge yet but I will let you know how it goes.

Just out of interest. When my gf first told me she was pregnant, I was torn apart because on the one hand I did not want to let her down. I know she wanted the child. It was a terrible feeling that situation was out of my control and she would inevitably make a choice and I would have to accept it. I'm thankful I approached some very smart older work colleagues who sat me down and gave me some decent advice. They told me if I had any doubts now and if I'm doing it to please her, I'd be going down a road that I could easily and dismally regret.

Persuading her to go ahead with the abortion was tough enough. The strange thing was that the night she told me she was pregnant, I wanted to have the 'not having kids discussion' with her. Obviously I had to put that on hold. And I have now for almost 8 months because I know she was and is still is sensitive about this.

Don't get me wrong! I sincerely love my girlfriend. It's just that kids are something I'm not really up to. I wish there was some way we could work things out. Somewhere we could go and temporarily play with someone elses kids without having our own. I'd love that. The world has many unwanted kids. I'm happy to share my love with them.. for a few hours at a time. It's not that I'm selfish, I'm just not up to the task. Or not yet at least.

I admit that there are benefits and joys that kids can provide. Perhaps on a level I can't understand. I just feel that reward/risk ratio is too high for me to part take. Furthermore, what bothers me the most is the fact that family, friends, society etc, does not encourage people to take counseling before having kids. Instead people are encouraged to take a great leap of faith without any calculations and then deal with the consequences.

Unfortunately, I feel this is quite reckless and the unfolding disasters as a result can easily be found on forums and hubs around the globe. My heart goes out to all of those who have suffered due to this.

As for my girlfriend. I have to respect her wishes and find out a way of letting her go if she feels children are so important. We have been quite close through everything we've faced and it's going to be a grueling challenge. Whenever I've mentioned my lack of desire for children, I've always felt that she hopes that one day I can change and she can twist my arm into having them. I'm not sure if other women do this too. I guess I need to lay down my intentions clearly.

My question here is as follows. Should I attempt to break things up between us and take a hard stance because I feel here intentions for children are clear. If she seems willing to continue the relationship and promises to compromise on kids in the future, should I let the relationship continue? Or is this dangerous territory? It's really tough, but I got to do some scenario planning with this one.

Thanks again. I'm most grateful for you taking the time to read my thoughts and mussings.

Bryan


Steve 6 years ago

I hear ya Jake. Mentioning the spreadsheet made me laugh which I needed. I'm gonna be patient for a while. Heck, I've been marring 15 years so what's a little more time. My wife can be "okay" at times but she just needs to learn to have fun and stop being a stickler all the time. I love to act goofy and wish she had more personality. Try not to take life too serious all the time. I'm not gonna say anymore bad cause she works hard too and is a good mother. It could be worse but it definitely could be better too. Hearing about all the Hollywood stars cheating on their wives everyday along with the links Veronica sent sort of make me feel like I'm the only one NOT having an affair.

Is there anyone out there that hasn't cheated? Would love to hear from that side. It's a good thing I'm not around a lot of temptation or I would fall like a house of cards. This past weekend I spent time with my two kids at the park and it was an incredible day. Kids are a lot of work but the innocence is truly priceless. I never want to shatter that. I think this is why men "sneak around". However, I certainly wouldn't know from experience. In regards to Hollywood at least there are a few good examples like Wil Smith, Tom Hanks and even Obama...at least for now!


Steve 6 years ago

One more thing about the park and how people need to change their outlook including myslef. I thought is was the craziest thing in the world as I watched this 50 something year old man going down a kids sliding board. He looked so ridiculous. I mildly laughed and poked fun while shaking my head. Nobody saw me as I just sat there on the park bench with my son. A minute later I saw this same man trying to raise his young son with Down Syndrome up onto the monkey bars. Of course I realized that he only went down the slide to show his son how it works. Man did I feel terrible. This man taught me a lesson and I even considered this a message from heaven for a moment. A message reminding me how lucky I am to have two healthy kids that adore me and their mother. Sometimes I feel so guilty for my thoughts and at times blame it on losing my religion over the years. I still feel cheated on the romantic side of life and know that my wife will never be that lovey dovey "fun" type but it certainly could be a lot worse. I had more admoration and respect for that stranger than anyone ever before. He probably has a great marriage. He taught me a lesson that I can't explain. I want to thank him here on this board.


Steve 6 years ago

Things aren't always what they appear to be!


guest 6 years ago

I am a 27 yr old female with 3 kids. I feel like men or women who have affairs are getting joy from an outside source just like when stay at home mothers need time away from the kids to find peace and happiness. I think people need to judge cheating less, I have been cehated on and I also cheat so I know both sides and the pain but I know that its not fair or realistic to ask a man to be unhappy lonely and sex deprived for 20 years because he chose to have kids. Women need to step up their sex game and also having kids doesnt mean throw your husbnads need to the back burner.


Jake 6 years ago

Guest,

Wow. I wish every woman thought like you and there would probably alot less cheating.....and men, of course need to do their part. Now that I've "aired" all of this with my wife, she vows to change (again) but always goes right back to the same routines. The funny thing is in ten years of marriage, I'm the same guy she married. She on the other hand is completely different....and I'm supposed to adapt. I married a fun loving, sexy, funny, hot woman.....where did she go? She stills takes care of herself (stays in shape) but everything else is gone. Just because we had kids doesn't mean the passion and sex have to disappear for the next twenty years, and by then we'll forget how to do it. It's bull. Don't get me wrong, I get some here and there, but it's with no emotion and I think she'd rather just go to sleep. Not good enough for me. To me, sex is the basis for the entire relationship and how you got to where you are. I didn't walk in the bar that night and go "so, how's 3 kids and a nice suburban house sound? what are you best child rearing skills?"

So, in my mind, I am waiting it out. 17 years of child support for 3 and alimony and living in an apartment doesn't sound so appealing right now. I give it another 2 to 5 years and I'm out. Life is too short and if she won't change, I'll continue to love her as the mother of my children, but I'll find somebody who really loves me. I'll continue to be the best dad I can be, and hopefully, life will be fun again.


Sue 6 years ago

Ok guys, perhaps there really are women out there who get married and just stop caring about their husbands and their sex lives but I'm going to be honest, I know a lot of married women with children and that doesn't seem to be the case to me. I'm a married woman with 3 kids, 2 step kids and a shaky marriage (my husband had a long term affair. And no, not because I didn't give him sex. My husband's affair had a lot to do with my husband, not me. It had to do with how he grew up, his insecurities and his way of dealing with life and his choices that he made. It would have been better had he divorced me first, which is why I wouldn't recommend for any of you to have an affair). Please ask yourselves some basic questions...Do you still compliment your wife? Do you tell her she's a good cook? Do you mention her hair? Do you tell her how nice her dress looks? Did you tell her that you appreciate the fact that she's stayed in shape for 10 years, after kids? Do you criticize a lot? That's a for sure way to get your wife to withdraw? Do you give your wife that extra hour a day where you take the kids and she can get dressed without interruption, go get her nails done, go shopping with a girlfriend? Go for a coffee with her mom? Do you help with the housework? Sorry, some days after I've cleaned for 3 hours straight and no one helps, including the hubby, matter of fact, I've picked up as much of his stuff as the kid's...well, I don't feel really sexy then. Is your bedroom a "retreat"? Is it kid free? If your kids are young, put them down for a nap and then take one yourselves, when you aren't tired, perhaps it won't be maintenance sex then. (My parents were big nap takers, all through my childhood and teen years on the weekends...they've been married 40 years). Does your wife work a lot and then come home and do all the housework and laundry and cooking or do you divide it 50/50 since you both work? Or do you sit down with your beer and the tv since you've had a hard day at work? Are you guys running around all the time doing the kid thing, teams, events, etc? Do you go on dates with your wife occasionally? Do you let her choose the movies, tv shows? Do you talk to your wife? Ask her how her day went, listen to her concerns and then share about your day? Do you get along with her family? Do you send her flowers just because or even just bring her a Starbucks just because? Do you build her up so she knows she's attractive and sexy (even if she has stretch marks and a jelly roll) and still the woman you love? Honestly, it takes two to mess up a marriage, not just one. Even in my marriage with the affair I have some responsibility. I'm not taking any blame for his choice to have an affair mind you, I'm just saying that it takes two...so keep that in mind. And one last question, everyone says their wife has changed, yet they have not. How can you get married, have kids, build a family, buy a house, and all those things that naturally come along and not be changed? Sorry, but if you are just like you were, which was single, not responsible for another person but yourself, how can you be a parent and a spouse? Just throwing that thought out there. And my one last thought is that any man or woman who is having an affair, if they took all that energy and time that they just put into the affair, if they put it all into their marriage, well I think that marriage would have improved. So taking that thought, think about the energy you could put into your marriage. And if you and your wife don't love each other, get divorced, and both of you find someone else regardless of the age of your children. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there from a woman's point of view that may or may not help. It's not easy being a working mom these days and a wife. The world expects so much of you and you really need your husband to be your support and to be there for you, so just make sure before you sell your wives short that you are doing that for yours also. And just being in the marriage and being a good dad but not there for your wife, she'll sense that and things will just get worse, that I can guarantee. Just writing this blurb I was interrupted about 4 times...kids!!! They are a lot of work and they take up most of your time. No, you can't ignore your spouse but they definitely have to have your time and your love to turn into successful people.


Steve 6 years ago

Good Points Sue. Maybe if I had more female friends I could change my way of thinking. For me, I realize I have too much going on right now to do anything drastic anyway. My son will be 12 and my daughter will be 5 this month. I was away all weekend with my son's travel hockey. He plays sports and my daughter wants to go everywhere I go so to leave all this now would be stupid. If I had a choice between being single, plenty of dates but without my kids OR not so happily married with my 2 kids I would choose married with my 2 kids in a heartbeat. The grass wasn't always greener with some of my past choices with employment so I will carry that experience over to my marriage. I miss great "over the top" sex but I'll take what I get just to see my kids everyday. My brother who never had children would have loved his own kids and it shows. I'm gonna take all this in now then see where I'm at later on in life when the kids get older. I won't let my negative thoughts get the best of me. I ran into an old girlfriend a few months ago who rocked my world back in the day but she let her go so much (much more than my wife) that I couldn't even bring myself to hit that one more time. My "not so fun" wife looked like a Brazilian model next to her. I know some people don't like to hear this but I need to get God back into my life!!!!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Watch Bill Maher's documentary: Religulous


Anni 6 years ago

NO child should be born to a couple who isn't entirely wanted by BOTH. Every couple has a choice, and if your wife is pressuring you to have kids and you aren't into it, then do the kid you haven't had yet a big favor. Don't. Better yet, TALK about this topic BEFORE you get married. You aren't entitled to have kids when you aren't both on board. You owe it to both of you, and the innocent and potential child victim in between the both of you, to be on the same page dedication and interest-wise.

My husband and I discussed this before AND after we married. We were both in agreement that we liked our lifestyle exactly as it was, and why screw up a good thing for someone we haven't met? We couldn't figure out the return on the kid investment anyway. You sacrifice time, energy, and money on these people who, ideally, will move out and be independent. If you're lucky! If you're not, you've raised an enabled kid who shirks responsibility and wants to climb your money tree. You might like them as adults enough to want to spend time with them and their families. You might also live close enough that you'll be enlisted to babysit the grandkids for free if you don't have anything else going on when you're retired. It just didn't sound like fun to us. Then again, they never said fun was in the kid brochure.

Of course you love your kids. You sound like a monster if you say you don't. But more people need to admit that it's not the lifestyle for them, because there are too many people with kids getting divorced. The person who was good enough to screw and good enough to have kids with is no longer good enough to stay married to. Thinking needs to change on this. The parenting lifestyle isn't designed to be tried out. Some couples love it and wouldn't trade it for the world. Those are the people who should have a bunch of kids to make up for the rest of us who've opted out.

My husband and I work, travel, spend loads of time biking, skiing, rock climbing, etc., charitable events, going to concerts and parties with friends, visiting galleries and museums, meeting new people, and our sex life rocks. We're always up for a new adventure, and we also get to choose when we want quiet time for ourselves. That's very important. For us, it will always beat changing diapers, chauffeuring kids around, saving for educations, fending off bullies, cleaning up puke and worse, managing a household, fighting over who does what, the list goes on. For us, it seemed like alot of work for little payoff in a 20-something year investment. We also didn't want to be in our late 50s or early 60s when we finally got our life back for ourselves.

The few women I know who wanted a load of kids so they could stay home from work for 15 years did so for that exact reason. I don't know if they wanted to really be mothers, or just wanted the lifestyle and to eventually not work. Their kids were in school full time by the time they were 6 yrs old. So let's face it, if your kids are in school all day, what on earth is your wife doing all day while you work? You can't clean the house for 9 hrs a day every day, you can't do laundry or cook for 9 hrs a day every day either. If you get off on the idea of being the big man working so your little woman can be leisurely, then enjoy. But I can't imagine that the majority of men are attracted to a sponge. If your wife wants alot of kids and you don't, it's called a vasectomy gentlemen. Otherwise, keep punching that proverbial clock to bring home the bacon. Because the piggies are hungry and that trough needs to be filled.

You have a fairly good idea of who you marry, and you get what you settle for.


4tsom10 profile image

4tsom10 6 years ago from Texas

Great story...so many comments and people in bad, unhappy situations. I liked your comments to them and I think you helped quite a few people with their situations.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Thanks, 4tsom10!


Steve 6 years ago

Veronica. My question is then why get married if you don't want kids? Maybe you heard this before but if your not having kids why not explore all the relationships you could be having. It seams your somewhere in the middle that carries a little less identity. I hope that I'm not being rude but I was always the type to ask questions. Also, I know plenty of single people (and married) that punch clocks everyday but the single people spend their money on wining and dining, sports events, cars, apartments and many other things. I never looked at my kids as a financial burden. I love them way too much to feel that way. Personally, I just hit a ryt that I am currently fixing and fixing quite well. My wife had talks that I never thought we would have. My advice to the others is to open that communication door and don't expect all the changes to happen overnight. It's a path I am heading down and I certainly hope to find that rainbow. I enjoyed reading all your articles. I wich you all the best.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve,

I think it's important to be single, and sample what life has to offer, for a significant amount of time. And if someone decides the single life is for them, I think that's fantastic.

Marriage is supposed to be when two people fall in love and want to spend their lives together. It's technically a sacrament for two people to share, in celebration of their choice to unite. It has nothing to do with children. I found it sad that you see no reason for two people to celebrate marriage, unless it involves children - something that has nothing to do with why two people should marry.

I think getting married to have children is bound to end in disaster. There is only one reason to get married, and that's because you are in love.

I dated many different people and was very happy sampling life, at 30 I bought my first house, and had my career on a strong path. And then I met my husband, and the future I saw was even better and brighter.

That's why 2 people should get married, if that's what they choose to do.

We're together 13 years. My husband and I spend our money on art, vacations, our dogs, wining and dining, snow mobiling, ... everything we spent money on when we were single. Why would that change after we married?

I think the "single people as opposed to the married people" you're comparing, are actually people that don't have children, and people that do have children.


herman 6 years ago

i made a woman pregnant .we got married in court .my cilden are married and i have 4 grandchildren and my youngest is expexting now.i worked for 35 years to give them wat they need like n roof ,food,clothes and a upbringing as we could on my salary as i could.our chidren and grandcildren are a big yoy to us.the big proglem is i did the right thing but i never was happy my whole life .i am 59 .i start to wonder if if it always is the corect thing to do to only think about the children.the wife is happy and love me very mutch icant say the same . WHAT DO YOU THINK


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Herman,

I think it's a very personal choice. I understand what you did and why, especially considering what the world was like back then.

I think birth control needs to be easily accessible, and choices need to be made clear and available. I do not think for one minute that someone should spend the next 35 years of their life unhappily paying for a mistake that was preventible or fixable. I truly think people should have children because they want to have children, not because they made a mistake.

I don't think the "right" thing to do is to not be happy. Personally, I just think life is too short to live without following your heart as much as you can. I think if you are honest, and careful, and you treat people with respect and dignity, you can have a happy life, and not a life you felt forced to live. Marriage and children shouldn't be traps or obligations, they should be healthy mature choices that adults make when truly ready and able to understand what they are doing.

I believe that your children, unless you raised them to be very selfish people, wouldn't have wanted their father or mother to be unhappy. I have received hundreds if not thousands of comments and emails, on almost 200 relationship articles I've published. Different people have expressed different feelings and experiences. But one thing I can tell you for sure, is that I have never ever received any communication from someone who was once a kid from one of those "stayed together for the kids" families, that grew up and said, "I'm so glad my father is miserable and never knew love, and just stayed for us. This makes me happy." The emails and comments from those people are the exact opposite. I've gotten many horribly guilt-ridden communications from those people. I've also gotten many notes from those people reflecting feelings of obligation in life, having learned through example that love isn't a choice and life sucks. The lessons they took away from that kind of life aren't good. BTW, I'm one of those former kids.

I think alot of damage can come from lies, even the ones you live because society convinced you of something that just isn't true.

Herman, you asked, "What do you think" and I'm answering. I'd like to hear what you really think.


Shoshane 6 years ago

I was with a guyfor a couple of years and he made it very clear at one point that he couldn't get more serious about me because he wanted somenoe who wanted kids. So he broke off with me and it was so painful. Years pass and I moved on, I met a great guy. My ex boyfriend met a girl almost 2 months after he broke off with me, 5 monthslater he marries her, they have kids right away. He emails me all the time now, tells me how miserable he is,how stressed out he is,they never talk they never are together, she changed into a super mom and only talks about the kids, refuses to go anywhere without them, makes him sleep on the couch so the kids can sleep with her. He's so depressed. He says he can't beleive he gave me up for a life he now hates. All I can say is I'm gald I stuck to my guns and didn't have kids just to 'keep' him. Oh and my new boyfriend is 'fixed'.

; )


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Shoshane,

Oh god yes, having kids just because someone else wants you to would be a really bad decision. I'm glad too that you didn't do anything stupid, and that you followed your heart on the life journey you wanted for yourself. Good for you. Thanks for commenting. xo


Steve 6 years ago

What if this happens? My friend that married my wife's best friend one year before me 15 years ago was officially divorced two years ago. Around the tenth year things were bad for them but I always talked him into going back for the kids which he did. He made (2) strong attempts after brief seperations only to tell me two years ago that there was just simply no way. The secong reconciliation attempt was because his kids were acting up terrible and his wife's boyfriend were verbally mistreating the children. The boyfriend has gone away just like the marriage and the wife doesn't really date for the safety of her children. Where is the benefit there. I understand she is having a terrible time making ends meat. My friend is also having a terrible time financially especially with child support. He maintains a very close relationship with his children but eben after the divorce he is still miserable. He lives at home with his parents despite owning a home for many years with his wife. He cannor afford an apartment and doesn't even have spending money. He is terribly miserable about the same and maybe more from when he is married. I was with him the other day and he couldn't fill up his car with cas because his credit card declined. He hates living with his parents and can't even afford a date. How is this any better! I think we sometimes assume that all married people are miserable but that's not the case. My divorced friend is miserable. My single female friend is miserable because she is nearing 35 and wants kids badly and wants to be married because of the loneliness. My poor aunt took a stroke in her apartment and layed on the floor overnight because she lived alone. Today she is in a nursing home for life at the age of 60. Frome my previous posts I was that person that wanted to be single again. I still do a little but things are much more in perspective now. I believe that this is the life God wanted for me. I need to make it work not God. I do believe in divorce after all else fails and I am trying everything I have to make this work. It just seems that there are millions of miserable people out there regardless of lifestyle. As the saying goes "life is what you make of it"! Remember, we loved our wives once and we can love them again (i hope) :)


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve,

I'm sorry about your Aunt. But she could have been married and had 10 kids, and still had a stroke while alone, you can't say this happened to her because she was single.

You know I am not pro-having kids. You know from the many of my articles you've read that I believe women greatly change and become super-moms at the expense of their marriages. You know I think people rush into having kids without knowing just how much work and sacrifice is entailed.

I don't believe "god" wants you or anyone for that matter to be married and stay in a loveless unhappy non-sexual marriage. I've said over and over, I think life is too short for that. Everyone deserves to be happy and loved. Your specific examples of someone married that's unhappy or someone divorced that's unhappy are examples of people that made poor choices or want things they couldn't have, and now have to deal with that. I'm sorry for them, we've all made poor choices at one time or another, we've all wanted something we couldn't get. But these examples of other people have nothing to do with you.

I take some heat from the women because I'm always more sympathetic to the guys, except when the guy lies or cheats. (Man-up and be honest. Lying and cheating is such shit.)

Right in the title of this article is "Kids Change Everything." I warn the guys over and over in this and many hubs that the woman they are dating is apt to become a "mom" once she has kids. I don't know many men that are married with kids that are happy. This particular hub is for the guys, that's why the title is Unhappily Married MEN. It's a warning. And the guys know as long as they don't cheat or lie, I'm on their side.

Steve, you're bringing up examples of other people in situations that aren't yours, you constantly avoid the fact that kids changed everything, and you vacillate about what you want to do. Yet you keep coming back here, to my article, knowing what I think.

What I think hasn't changed: Don't cheat. Own your shit. If you're not happy, then you need to make major changes. Talk to your wife and tell her what's going on with you. Life is too short to spend it this unhappy. If you want out, then get out. I don't believe divorce is this horrible last resort option you seem to think it is.


Steve 6 years ago

One more question then please. Can you describe happiness for a married man?


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve, you can keep coming and posting, and talking out what you're feeling, and I hope that you do.

Nope, I can't answer for other people what's going to mean "happiness" to them. I'm sure "married" isn't a road to happiness for many people, so right there your question kinda baffles me. It's different for everyone. For example, you're very insistent that having kids meant happiness for you. For many people like me and my husband that's not the case.

The two tips I give over and over to anyone to find happiness in marriage (if marriage is what they want) is-

1 - don't get married under 30 years old. You really don't know what you want, and who you are, and the full extent of what obligation is, until you've passed through your Saturn Return. Getting married too young and too fast doesn't often lead to good things. It's HARD to find the right person, the person that loves you for YOU, the person that wants to be happy with you, and celebrates you and your choices as well as their own. And that hard task is made impossible when you marry too fast, or too young.

And 2 - Don't have kids unless you can understand how much sacrifice and commitment raising them takes. And men especially need to understand how many women change after kids. Make sure you're prepared for that, and it's what you want. It's a different life.

Steve, I got married later in life after being quite the wild child until I was 31. My husband and I dated for a while and had a certain type of life that we both really enjoyed. We both knew we didn't want kids. We were both old enough to know what we wanted and what we didn't want out of life. As you know we like to travel, we party pretty hard, we love to go dancing and clubbing and to see concerts. We snow mobile and ski, we collect art, we rescue dogs, we each travel for our work. We're both highly sexual people. We'll be married 12 years this summer, and I can honestly say we're very happy. But what makes us happy isn't what makes you happy, obviously. And it isn't what would make many people happy.

Would flying into Amsterdam on a Friday to hit a 3 day dance club party and then fly home be "happiness" for every married man? No, probably not. Would deciding at 2am to get up and go outside and play paintball in our pajamas while downing a few Coronas and then screwing like bunnies on the backporch (like we did last night) be happiness for every couple? No, probably not. But that's happiness for us; that's happiness for him.

Steve, only you know what happiness means to you. There's no wrong answer. If it's having kids and having a conservative quiet life, that's wonderful. Whatever it is, you're allowed to have it. You're allowed to create that life for yourself.


Steve 6 years ago

It seems like you have quite the life. If I went out back at 2 a.m. with paintball guns my neighbors would call the cops. If I went to Amsterdam I would return completely broke with an unwanted tattoo on my back. I certainly wish I had the time, freedom and resources to do all those things. Although, don't need to be in Amsterdam for alcohol, clubs and tramps. We have plenty of all three right here. I would like to throw something out there for a minute. I think "maybe" wives should just let men have an affair or two. What's the big deal? Even help set it up at times if possible. This should be discussed among married women instead of "kid talk" all the time. It would totally change our entire outlook and would make everything better (instantly). Maybe a good swingers group is the way to go too but what if the wife isn't for it after I propose the notion? Then there's Ashley Madison right? Anyway, Why give up all the nice things you've worked for just to clean out the pipes a little more often? No booty is worth not seeing your children again so divorce doesn't seem logical to me. Kids are NOT the reason why men are miserable. We just get tired of seeing the same movie and hearing the same song over and over again. I applaud your happiness because it breaks the mold. I also applaud all the women raising their kids the "correct" way each and every day of their lives. However, I just don't believe that infidelity is this horrible monster everyones builds it up to be. It shouldn't be discussed or encouraged around kids but adults need to act like kids once in a while too. It's healthy.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Steve,

My life isn't for everybody, I know that. And that's fine. We have a great house in upstate NY with alot of acreage and a couple of very cool neighbors that are not on top of us. We are here because we wanted this situation. It's not for everyone. My old friends in Manhattan couldn't live here, but this is what I wanted. The country isn't for everyone, marriage isn't for everyone, not having kids isn't for everyone, and monogamy isn't for everyone.

Getting divorced to have sex is not what I said at all. I said, if you are unhappy, you should do what you need to do to be happy. You should be happy in many different aspects of your life, sex is just one of them. Your partner should consider your needs in all aspects of your life to be very important. If it's not, than that's a huge reflection on the kind of partnership you have. I don't know how you're translating what I said into "no booty is worth not seeing your kids again."

And I don't know why you associate getting divorced with not seeing your children again. You have such an extreme and narrow view of things which doesn't correlate with reality, and I don't know where it comes from. Steve, if you get divorced and have joint custody, and see your kids half the time, which is probably not going to turn out to be too different from having a day job. You will work out visitation with a judge, not with a vindictive wife. Why in the world would your divorce result in "never" seeing your kids again?

I would never judge any couple that mutually agreed to swing or swap or be open. The only thing I don't like is lying. Many many people find that they are not monogamous, and that's fine. Personally, I'm monogamous. I couldn't have that situation in my relationship, but that's just us.


Sue 6 years ago

Steve,

You are going in so many directions today that I'm getting lost!!! A few thoughts though...

First, Veronica is right in that the example you gave of your unhappily divorced friend is that unfortunately his situation is the result of some bad choices made by him and his ex wife. But I have a feeling that even if he has to live on an extreme budget for a few years he doesn't have to be miserable. I do believe people have a choice to be miserable or to be happy, a lot of it deals with your own perspective on life.

Secondly, I do believe in God but I don't believe God wants people to be miserable. Once again, that's your own choice. Since you threw God out there but then threw out cheating I do believe that adultery is frowned upon in the bible so if that's the direction you want to go in you'd have to say that's why you WOULD NOT have an affair.

Thirdly, I am a bit worried that many men do feel unhappy once married and a father and to me, that's a bit sad but once again people do control their own happiness. To me, kids are a personal choice. I love being a mom but if I hadn't had children I would have been fine also. I would be that great aunt that all the kids love to have come visit. I also have step kids and I got lucky with two really good ones. Not only do I have a great bond with them, they are also really bonded with their younger siblings...even though the oldest used to roll his eyes at each pregnancy announcement. And the three youngest, they just jump all over the older two the minute they walk in our house. But I'm rambling. Veronica is right. Being divorced doesn't mean you don't see your kids. You don't stop being a parent once you are divorced unless you've been such a rotten parent somehow all custodial rights are legally removed from you, and those are some rare situations I think.

My last thought is a question for you??? Since you are wondering why women don't let their husbands go have an affair...are you ok with your wife going out and having mind blowing (affair) sex with a younger, nice looking, good smelling, well groomed attractive man with a good paying job (who pays attention to her and compliments her and makes her feel beautiful) and then coming back home, kissing the kids, showering and sleeping in bed with you like nothing? Because seriously if it doesn't work both ways, it doesn't work. Plus, when you realize that having an affair didn't make you happier than you are now you have so much fall out to deal with in your marriage and with your wife I think you'll find it wasn't worth it. It would be easier and less hurtful to everyone involved to get divorced and to find your personal happiness which is what is sounds like you are looking for anyways.

BTW, I am a married woman with kids and I DO NOT kid talk constantly. I also like the same subjects that the childless people I know do. When I hang out with my friends with kids we don't kid talk constantly either. I know for a fact that would get really really boring and old really fast. Don't get me wrong, we talk about them but they don't dominate our conversations constantly.

Veronica, keep paint balling at 2 am! It keeps you young, sane and vibrant I am sure. Steve, I think the point is that whether you are single or married, whether you have kids or not, you find what makes you happy. You will not "make" anyone else happy if you aren't first happy with yourself. Work on yourself first and see how that changes your entire life. And change is good sometimes even if it's hard at first.


Steve 6 years ago

Sue & Veronica, Thanks! I know that when I am divorced I would still see the kids but I meant no booty is worth not seeing them on a daily basis watching them play on a swing, acting silly and watching their eyes light up when I walk in the front door. In some ways it's a trade-off and I'm pretty sure I will never travel the world and see many things but I'm okay with that. Those things become distant memories over time anyway. The real joy is today and the next day watching these kids grow older. My sex life isn't what it used to be and sometimes I wonder how things could be but that's just a fantasy world of mine. I never really meant for the women to go out and cheat too just the man because we are built differently and think differently. I must retract the swinging comment. I can't thank you guys enough because you certainly helped put things into perspective especially the happiness part.


Sue 6 years ago

Steve,

Can you talk to your wife about things? Would you be able to take her away for the weekend with no kids and just relax and talk about things? You don't sound like you really want to go anywhere but you want more affection and sex in your life. There is nothing wrong with wanting those things and I think they should go hand in hand with marriage whether you have one child or ten. Having kids does not mean the end of sex and affection but you both have to work at it. Do you give her the support and help she needs? Does she say she is tired? And Steve I only tell you what I want from my husband. I have no tried and true answers. You say you are an unhappily married man, I don't think I'm unhappy but my marriage isn't in a good place. My husband would probably say he's the unhappily married man but I’ll be honest, most of his unhappiness with our marriage is generated with his own unhappiness with himself. Why is he unhappy with himself? Well, too many failed jobs and no solid career in his 40’s. Actually, he was employed in a family business for years so he truly now hates having a boss and answering to someone-even though he does have a good job now. But he has no appreciation for that fact. He made some very bad financial decisions that hurt our family and really put a crimp on our lifestyle for a while. I’ve been working hard at getting us out and back into what I consider a good and decent lifestyle but I’ll be honest with you, he’s still not happy with it. I guess the house isn’t big enough or fancy enough to have coworkers over because he tends to try to use a family member with a much larger and grander home for gatherings when he invites them. Trust me when I tell you our house that we rent (not own, due to our own bad decisions) is nice. It’s in a nice neighborhood and it is a well established house. There is nothing to be ashamed about where we live. The biggest mistake my husband made and yes, he’s still paying for it, is that he had a long term affair with another woman. It hurt me, the older kids, his family, my family; it was a really crappy part of my life. Well, that aspect of it. My kids were still great, my job stayed steady and I was promoted and I still had my personal faith and the support of two good families. My husband suffers from some level of depression (diagnosed only by myself mind you) and anxiety. But he suffers from these things in a large part because of the a bash the heck out of my husband. I’m not a victim. I chose to stay with this man regardless so I am where I am in my life due to my decisions. I do believe that my marriage will come to an end. I always hope something will happen and it won’t but I’m not holding my breath. There are some financial obligations that I am working on and when those are gone I’m going to reevaluate the marriage and make some decisions and stand by them. I know that sounds cold but it is unfortunately where we have come to. I will never regret my marriage, life is too short. I won’t blame anyone other than myself for letting myself get drug into bad decisions and choices. Yes, I did not personally make them but I didn’t separate myself from them either. Occasionally when I’m having a pity party I feel bad for me because I’ve been cheated on, lied to and treated like crap and “it’s not fair”!!!!! But I also know that overall I like my life and who I am and what I do. I am a great believer in constant self improvement in life so I know I have plenty of room for it. Whether it’s through self help books, motivational literature, etc. I’m there. This is why I say you have to be happy with yourself. I can look in me and I know I’ve made some big mistakes, I’ve done some wrong things but I’m happy with me and I’m happy to be alive.


Sue 6 years ago

cont...

For a long time I believed some of the things that my husband tried to tell me. For starters, that I’m a negative person. No, I’m realistic. To me, stating the truth and looking your mistakes in the eye and learning from them doesn’t mean negativity. For my husband it does. It took me a long time to say to myself wait, you are very positive at work, people enjoy being around your energy, you are not negative! I think age has helped with a lot of where and how I see myself. I realize that my husband twists a lot of my positive qualities into negatives mostly because he’d rather not delve into why he’s so unhappy with himself. Had my husband came to me years ago and said I want a divorce instead of having an affair I would have so much more respect for him now. But instead he took all the time and energy and affection he was supposed to give me and the kids and he gave it to some woman who lapped it up and gave him an ego boost. I would love to give my husband an ego boost but when you don’t support your family financially or spend enough time with us, and you don’t take my needs into consideration it makes it really hard for me to always give give and give. I have children who need to be raised into healthy and loving adults, I have a job that I give more than 40 hours a week to and in the 4th quarter I give my job the whole month of December. I do this for my family not because I’m so in love with working but because I have turned into the more solid bill paying spouse. I have parents and siblings who need my time and attention and I have friends. I have hobbies and a home to keep up (in which I get very little help from my husband) and books to read…I’m a very independent and strong person which turned out to be a good thing because had I been a highly dependent person I could have gone down some really bad paths in the last few years. I am not trying to just give a negative picture of my husband he really does have some very good qualities also but what I am saying is look into yourself and think how would my wife describe me and does she have any valid points. I am fair about certain qualities I have that I know are annoying to my spouse or not fair to him. I know that I don’t give him the feeling that he is the man of the house who takes care of me and that I depend upon him. But I also know that a lot of that comes from his actions. There are consequences in life to our behaviors. Do you want to know the one thing my husband complains the most about about me? My weight. I gained weight after the second child…I know this. But I am not THAT BIG!!! And I’m a very attractive woman still. I want to lose weight for me because I was super thin before kids. My husband through comments and jokes insinuates that I am at least 50 pounds heavier than my real weight. I think most moms want to be attractive and sexy so it really does suck when you gain some weight but it is something I can change about myself if I put the time and effort into me. But how is he going to change that crappy attitude he has? I think weight loss is going to be easier. Understand that on the surface we look like a very nice couple and people don’t think of us as a couple on the edge of divorce upon meeting us. What we lack though is some good honest communication. I don’t need lies, attitude or excuses. I just want my husband to listen to what I’m saying. If he doesn’t want to be married then say so. I know what I want. I want a good husband. I want a friend and a lover and someone who looks out for me and takes care of me (and I don’t mean financially). I want to have someone to spend some quality time with me and the kids. One thing is though, I will not cheat on my husband to get it. Two wrongs don’t make a right and it would be a disaster. This has been long enough so I hope it gave you something to think about.


Nick 6 years ago

never saw that many comments. great post.


nagarajnow profile image

nagarajnow 6 years ago from Tamilnadu

Hi friend..Never spend this much time any other hubs.. But its great message behind your hub and also in the comments posted..


Mike 6 years ago

I never wanted kids but have them and am frequently unhappy in my marriage. I sympathise and identify with all of the men here. Having children changes EVERYTHING but I wont give up on finding the spark with my wife again. I will not let this beat me or us. My wife and I are going through the same thing a you guys...love lost, not talking to eachother, no passion. Hell, we don't even hang out in social situations.

We both are at fault. I realize that part of problem is me and will work on correcting some of my faults as a husband and father.

I am not doing this for my child. I am doing this for me and my wifes sake because not having her it whats hurting me.

Veronica, good column, you got people talking but it really bugs me when women tell a man to BE A MAN. It is derogatory and non-specific. For example, what is your definition of a man? Is it the same as theirs? You get my point.

Mike


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Mike,

It means be a man, rather than a boy. Since you have a penis, you're always one or the other. I'm saying you have to be a man and own up, or be honest, or be real. Life is too short to be unhappy, and only you can decide what's right for you. But being a sneak, a cheat and a liar are not options.


JJ 668 6 years ago

Well I've been married for 15 years and we have 3 kids. It's been hard enough to call it hell. We have both been very loyal to each other, even though its been painful. We found out things about ourselves that has made it difficult. You make some huge self sacrifices when having kids. Your time is no longer yours and it sure as hell aint free. Just getting to go wipe your ass is a break because you're usually busy wiping theirs. I love my kids but I hate having kids. Does it makes sense? I am carefully planning my own escape while staying married with kids. Will probably stay as busy as I can away from home. As long as they have money they dont need me as much. 5 years of college have become my way out.


Office Fan 6 years ago

I'm a bit late to this debate but i will post anyway. I'm 31 and my gf is 27, we have been together 2 yrs, living together 1 yr. She is the love of my life and i am about to end our relationship because of the incessant nagging to have kids. It wasn't until about 6 months ago she started talking about it but she hasn't stopped since. I had never really thought about kids, even with her, until 6 months ago. She keeps going on about having 4 kids and a big house and how she doesn't want to work. I'm an accountant and KNOW the TRUE cost of everything! Needless to say this put me under a lot of pressure. I have explained how i feel to her but it goes in one ear and out the other. I fear she has stopped taking the pill so our sex life has gone downhill as i keep making excuses not to sleep with her. (She won't let me wear a condom as to her 'it feels like rape'). The last 6 months have been hell. What happened to that smart, funny, intelligent, beautiful woman i met 2 years ago? She is no where to be seen. After much internal turmoil, research and forum reading i have decided to end our relationship and live a child free life. Just the thought of the freedom that brings has felt like a weight lifted and i can't wait to explore as much of this planet and experience as much as i can - excluding parenthood! Believe it or not this is my first ever post and i feel more positive for sharing how i feel. Peace and love to you all


dawnM profile image

dawnM 6 years ago from Camarillo, CA

very well writen article and insightful as well. the part about having children I especially loved because all that you said is true, having children changes a marriage and your life. You no longer are alone you have them to raise and be responsible for. The other point that I loved and me being a marriage counselor I tell my male clients is exactly what you said fess up to your spouse tell her you are unhappy and that you want to leave and things have to change in the marriage. Like you I cannot express this more clearly to all men out there....great point and exceptional article!!


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

dawnM,

Wow, thanks so much for such an inspiring comment. I really appreciate it! Thanks for stopping by!


confused 6 years ago

you know, in my situation this does not apply, and i do not know what has happened within my marriage! i had a kid when he met me, so what my life was like and what his would be like should not have come as a surprise. we have one together, and now he says that i have forced him to change, that he never wanted kids and he is miserable! excuse me??? i clean the house, work full time(make twice what he does), take care of kids and myself! I do not nag, i never complain when he spends all weekend playing video games, hell, i even buy the games! i have not let myself go! I love him! I have watched too many people let their marriages die by not taking care of their husbands, and i have never not taken care of him. i meet all of his "needs" most of the time when he is home i don't even bother him with the kids, i continue, no matter how tired i am, to take care of everyones needs. now, he says that i am too perfect and that i can not relax and just have fun??? he is the one that said that he does not feel like coming home if the house isnt clean. I just don't get it! Any insight would be nice, oh and he also promised there was not anyone else.


Confused 6 years ago

I'm reading this artical as a young female in a long term relationship. I have no urge to have kids, but I'm just reading some of the responses here. How miserable people are, how bleak everything is, how sex is still the be all and end all.

Can someone answer me honestly, is there ANYTHING to look forward to in life? I couldn't stand the thought of my long term boyfriend having an affair, it would completely crush me, yet I read this and some people have been having affairs for YEARS? I agree with the pressure thing, people ask me if I'm pregnant about every year I catch up with them.

But if I don't want to have kids I'm a tigh a**ed career focused woman who is grouchy and depressed with no joy in her life. HOW IS THAT FAIR? Society has pretty f*cked up stereotypes.

But back to the original questoin, is anything in life worth looking forward to if marriage ends in affairs and kids end in divorce?


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Confused,

Thank you so much for your comment. I took it to heart and wrote you your own Hub -

http://hubpages.com/relationships/With-Divorce-Aff...

I've moved your comment exactly as you left it, over to there. I hope you will check it out.

Best to you.


Crisandria 6 years ago

This article was fantastic! My husband and I have always had a dysfunctional relationship, but we pushed it through for a multitude of reasons. At age 27, he decided he wanted children. Since giving birth, our already deteriorating relationship has goes up in smoke at least every other week since having our son nearly 5-years ago. We do go out on date nights quite frequently, but we're both very unhappy with our lives in general. Most people think we have it all(nice house, intelligent child, and the appearance of a great relationship), and I was sure we were one of the few who were *faking* it until I started talking to other married women. My god! I haven't spoken to one truly happy married women with children yet. I always wonder how many people are suffering behind their smiles when I log on to Facebook. Every single couple looks happy, including us! No one would ever know the abuse, distrust, and hell that has characterized our involvement with each other over the course of 10-years. It's very discouraging. We're agnostic, but I've even considered going to church just to see if I can find happily married women and men with children there. Where are they? *sigh*

Kudos to you for following your heart and your mind! Your relationship sounds utterly amazing whereas ours only looks that way. My husband is just over 30 and I'm five years younger. We haven't had regular sex since I was 23 years old. We've actually taken years off from having sex, and both of us, as healthy and attractive as people think we are, suffer from chronic pain and the health effects of living unfulfilled lives. Oddly enough, although my husband seems miserable at home, he promotes parenthood(and marriage) to all of his single or childfree friends and speaks as though he absolutely loves it all.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Chriandria,

Wow. Thank you so much for your comment here. I am sure you are not alone. You're right - so many people behind those smiles have their own private hells going on. I'm floored that as unhappy as your husband is he says what he does to others. I really wonder why he does that. He's not the only one and it makes writing a hub like this all the harder when it's such a taboo because everyone lies.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment with your experience. I really appreciate it.


Crisandria 6 years ago

I've about his motives too Veronica. On the one hand, he's been in denial for quite some time. On the other, he measures maturity by one's willingness to endure pain, suffering, and sacrifice. I truly believe a masochism is at the root of much of his behavior, and a bit of mine too. He was swearing off pleasurable engagements and activities when we met, which is likely one reason why he decided to take up with me at the time. I was a depressed teenager, freshmen in college, suffering the guilt and shame that was part of grieving the reality of abortion with my ex who had been my sweetheart for years until that time. My husband took me up as a project; someone he vowed to "improve" and "turn into" a "good woman". Those words must've went right over my head; no wonder, considering my self-esteem was just inches from the ground.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Crisandria,

You're amazingly insightful, introspective, and honest. Thank you so much for posting here. Your words are rather haunting. I'm sorry to hear you've struggled with guilt and self esteem issues, and you've wound up building a life with a partner that seems to perpetuate them.

If you decide to write out some more of your experience and feelings, and observations, I bet it would help you sort through it all, and I'm sure it would help others. I know for a fact you are not alone. Much of what you've experienced happens to others who don't know what to do about it. If you start blogging or hubbing, I hope you leave a link here so people can read you. I know I would.


6 years ago

I'm a happily married man. My wife and I are together 20 years now, married for 8. We don't have kids and I really think that's the key. I don't know any married guys with kids that are truly happy. They may love their kids, or say they are doing OK, but none of them are actually happy. I'm so glad I really thought about this before hand and figured out I did not want to have that kind of life. My wife and I have so much fun together, and another thing is we have money. We aren't broke like everyone with kids always seems broke. We're not rich or anything but we can afford vacations and we can pay our bills. I really was impressed with this article. I hope people read it and consider what they are getting into before they have kids.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

K,

Congratulations to you and your wife on a good life with choices that were the right ones for you.

Thanks for the comments tonight, I see you've commented on a few of my hubs and I appreciate it.


Crisandria 6 years ago

Thank you for the kind words Veronica!


S. 6 years ago

I was married for 10 years, and have a 3 year old boy.

My wife was physically distant much of the time, I can't actually ever recall her initiating sex (before or after kids), ever hug was concluded by her, physical advances were refused, there were parts of her I wasn't to touch..

We were infertile for some time before falling pregnant,having a child was very important to her, I spent many a day/night comforting her during infertility.

So you can imagine my surprise when she fell pregnant a second time and wanted a termination. Which happened on the basis she wanted to go back to work and couldn't cope with staying home. (She couldn't cope with me staying home instead either).

After a while I concluded my wife was a woman who wanted a shiny house, without a thing out of place, a shiny car, a shiny single child, a shiny husband, all of the appearnaces of success. I was just a role that was beinf fulfilled. I met someone else and left.

Apart from missing my son (who she has limited me to 1 day a week), I've never been happier.

You don't have to put up with a life of harassment and no sex, devoting yourself to someone who is only happy when EVERYTHING they want is supplied to them. Get out.


Retirement 6 years ago

I am married, have kids, the dogs, house and all that goes with it ($$$$). For those of you who have not experienced any of these things, you will be having a great awakening. Yes, your life changes. When you have children, you sleep when you're not tired and wash when you're not dirty, etc., so you will be there when your kids need you. This is no excuse for neglecting each other. If you're not old enough to remember the song by Jack Jones, the lyrics were: Hey! Little Girl

Comb your hair, fix your makeup

Soon he will open the door

Don't think because there's a ring on your finger

You needn't try anymore

For wives should always be lovers too

Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you

I'm warning you...

Day after day

There are girls at the office

And men will always be men

Don't send him off with your hair still in curlers

You may not see him again

For wives should always be lovers too

Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you

He's almost here...

Hey! Little girl

Better wear something pretty

Something you'd wear to go to the city and

Dim all the lights, pour the wine, start the music

Time to get ready for love

Time to get ready

Time to get ready for love

It goes for men too.


Rabia Sajjad profile image

Rabia Sajjad 6 years ago from Lahore,Pakistan

Very nice...I'm impressed by your writings. To tell you about myself,m new to hubpages. M following you and hoping to get your feed back on my hubs...n gimme some useful tips as well.


justine otherstatistic 6 years ago

I read your stuff Veronica but it doesn't apply to me, nor to countless thousands of other guys. There are plenty of shits in this world, and 50% of them are women.

So spare a thought for poor trapped morons like me who would be happy to be a man and take responsibilty blah blah but are forever treading on eggshells waiting for another explosion, dealing with an insane creature who used to be a woman.

I'm not trying to find some hot sexy babe lover, I'm not a bored "want more sex" lying shyte husband, but I would just LOVE to find a nice woman somewhere who I can feel normal with again. As for sex etc..., I'm not even within a mile of thinking about that idyllic situation. I'd settle for just to be able to talk to a woman who was sane and happy so I could feel normal again. Feel like me again, have a laugh, talk about things of interest, walk in the country.....

The only lying I do is to cover up my wife's madness, trying to keep some semblence of normality for my kids.

I do most everything with the kids, get them ready for school, collect them from school put them to bed etc

She doesn't do a thing with the kids except scream and shout. Then there's the violence! yes, women are violent, believe me! Dear God I never expected to end up like this. How blind I was. I'm only staying here long enough to make sure the kids are still relatively sane by the time they are old enough to leave home. When your own kids say they hate their mother and wish they were dead it makes you rather desperate. It's all very well saying sit down and talk to your wife about the problems but that is NOT an option. She would go ballistic and kill someone. Honestly I am at my wits end, how on earth can I deal with this? Yes, I would LOVE to have a LOVER because I want to love someone. I am so miserable and I don't bloody well deserve to have such a shitty life. The fact that I haven't done anything about it is simply due to the contradictions it would entail. I am not a philanderer but a one woman guy....and so I've ended up neither here nor there. HEY all you blokes out there!!....do a sanity check on that woman you are about to marry, you might be about to marry a lying, violent thieving, nutcase.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 6 years ago from NY Author

Justine,

It does apply to you.

If you're unhappy, then go. If your wife is such a fruitcake, divorce her. She sounds like a shitty mother as well as a shitty wife, so what's the hold up? Why stay?

There are plenty of shits and 50% of them are women? Of course there are. And it's probably a lot more than 50%. Most of my articles come down pretty heavy on the gals. And this one states pretty clearly, she may be the one that changed, the one that is intolerable, the one that gives you all the reasons why it's not working.

Why would you lie to cover up for your wife? If she's screaming at the kids, they should know that's not healthy or normal.

Yeah the art "The only lying" you do is not helping anyone. And it'll lead to much worse lies. Why choose that?

Life is way too short to be miserable. This article says deal with your shit, don't lie and run away. Of course that applies to you. Choosing to be a martyr is ridiculous. Get a lawyer, pack up your kids and GO.


Derailed 6 years ago

I think what strikes me most in the comments is how many guys think their situation is so unique. It's the exact opposite. I bet it's the majority of married men with kids that feel fucked and think about cheating, and just want to get out.

The other thing that strikes me is how many guys really do think divorce is not an option. That's pretty much what this article is about in a way. Put energy into fixing things. Try talking. If it doesn't work, then be honest and admit it's not working and end it.

I was one of those guys. I'm not like that anymore.


Mamelody profile image

Mamelody 6 years ago

Thank God am not married and have no kids. This hub has just confirmed my decision to never marry or have kids so thank you for pointing it out!


Lost and Confused 5 years ago

I got marred to my husband in early 2009. We both are thirty yrs old.I want to plan a family and have kids but he is never ready for it.According to him ev everything has to be perfect,and life is always imperfect.Its been 2 yrs and I started to loose hope.I dont think he is committed to me in long run !


Neil Sperling profile image

Neil Sperling 5 years ago from Port Dover Ontario Canada

Love your no nonsense way of expressing a clear mature point of view. Maturity is not something that is common.. LOL

Keep up the great writing


Tara_in_NE profile image

Tara_in_NE 5 years ago

I live alone in a small, tidy two-bedroom ranch house on three acres in small New England town. After reading this thread and the posts on it I'm beginning to wonder why I should feel that I have it so badly after all.


Tara_in_NE profile image

Tara_in_NE 5 years ago

Lost and confused, I have a question for you:

What was more important to you going into your marriage- being his wife or being the mother of his children?

If you answered the latter, then the two of you should have called off the wedding.


Joe 5 years ago

Having three kids for me is pure hell. No matter how hard to try to be a great dad, my sanity takes a huge beating to the point of losing it. A single kid can be complicated. Try having three complicated kids! I use to love watching the Brady Bunch. Now I laugh at it because its so far from reality. I had 8 years of experience being a dad before the second one came along and the first daughter proved that it could be fairly easy. But then comes the high needs (not special) kid who never stops having dramatic episodes. Almost autistic. Then comes a boy who is ALL BOY to the point of trying to turn everything upside down 24/7. Then your oldest ends up becoming a drama queen and can't stand the attention we have to give to small children. Marriage has become a thing of the past even though the wife and I have been together for 15 years. What is marriage? I have completely forgotten. Instead of companionship, going on dates, it has become a daily chore of survival from the disturbing presence of needy kids. Usually our ideas that work with one kid will not work with another. We end up having loads of trouble finding common ground. It gets chaotic at times. I have just about stretched myself to the point of not giving a damn anymore. I am starting to envision a life of freedom but I'll have to pack my bags and leave to get it.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 5 years ago from NY Author

Thanks for your comment, Joe. You are not alone. I get so many emails that echo the exact feelings you just expressed.


Deployed Again 5 years ago

Military are especially prone to this problem, with both the soldier and the spouse. Here is the answer that we as a deployed army culture have discovered. WALK AWAY while you still have some sort of common ground.

There are a lot of military men and women that tolerate cheating and money wasting spouses because they want to see their kids when they come home. We don't have a lot of options because for us, male or female, our spouse can say we are dangerous, and we lose custody.

We understand, some of us are that cheater, and some of us are the cheated on. Imagine that you want to get out, leave and run away. Okay, then do it. But to keep the other party waiting on your decision to leave is criminal, you are wasting your life and theirs. Discuss child care and move on.

I came from a broken home, my parents divorced when I started my teens. This is also very common in the service, people from broken homes. One thing that I have observed by talking with a lot of soldiers (and I mean in my career we are talking 100 or so soldiers in direct contact with me) that came from that divorced separated family is that NONE OF THEM were fooled by their parents, they were all well aware that their folks had problems.

So get away from each other, get healthy and restart your life. But don't walk away from your kids. Wanting to leave a spouse is common. Wanting to run away from being a father or mother is disgraceful. So think carefully about which one you are running away from, and if the shoe fits, hang your head.


Kay 5 years ago

Having kids is not easy- but it's worth it. I can't say that it ruined my marriage, but I'm sure it had something to do with it. You left out one very important factor in the having kids rant- and maybe I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but becoming a parent forces you to grow up. My husband did not take the grow up ball and run with it. In fact he did the opposite, and still does. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He lay down in the middle of the playing field with his head resting on the ball as a pillow. I had taken full responsibility for my kids aand he became the big brother. What ended up happening was that I was doing everything, all the hard stuff and he was "fun daddy" teaching them to fart in the tub among other idiotic childish behaviors. Rather than teaching them to be nice boys, he was teaching them to be animals who would spit in public. Everything he teaches them, I have to undo immediately. It's exhausting. And during these 7 years of child rearing we spent together, I was supposed to be turned on by him? Why, because he was so mature? Please. I see your point, but it wasn't about me looking frumpy or not having time to get dolled up for him. I'm sure u were not speaking for every case, because mine looked nothing like that before I got rid of the bum.

I suppose some guys cannot handle the huge responsibility of being a dad. You are right though, to warn them. I hope they listen to you.


Shorey 5 years ago

Having young children is torture and hell. There is no other way to put it. My DH escaped it daily by going to work and then staying late so he could come home after the little demons were in bed. I really hated being trapped and having all my freedoms taken from me, you really don't realize what it's like until it happens to you. My complaints fell on deaf ears.He continued to have his fishing and hunting weekends with the 'boys' just like he did before with the comments that since I was supported financially by him he had a right to a 'relaxing weekend'. Where was MY relaxing weekend? It was just assumed that the kids were in my charge and if I wanted to go shopping or have lunch with friends I needed to handle finding a babysitter. He changed so much after the kids came, went from being helpful and supportive to acting like he hated being home and that I was just a big pain in the ass allthe time. Nothing makes a woman feel more unattractive than a man who gives off the vibe that you are no longer interesting to him but now just a chore. Everyone talks about how the woman changes into a 'moomoo' wearing frump. Well years of no sleep, doing all the childcare and NEVER getting a break, having no money or time leftover for yourself, see what that turns you into! He still dressed nicely, had time to go to the gym after work, spent hours playing games on the computer, slept in on weekends. Yeah I should have known thisbefore marrying him but trust me, he acted COMPLETELY different. He used to treat me like an equal, not a slave. I had an affair when our kids were in school. I am not sorry and first chance I get I'm leaving him.


Alex 5 years ago

Women often push guys to have children. I make it very clear to every woman I date, I in no way ever want children. Most guys however do not do this and end up being suckered into it.


Tara_in_NE profile image

Tara_in_NE 5 years ago

Actually that's not a bad strategy, Alex. It weeds out ninety-plus percent of the desperate dingbats who want children for the sake of having children (because their friends are having them) and would throw you on the back burner (or worse-to the curb) once their mission is accomplished.


Brad 5 years ago

K - I've also been married for almost 20 years and decided young that I didn't want kids. The trade off is that my wife and I have been able to travel to over 25 different countries & we have money. Although were not rich, we've managed to pay off our house, cars & credit cards. Still, lately, I've had deep regrets of not having kids. I think I would make a great Dad & could share so much, but my wife can no longer have children. I see all my friends with kids going to birthday parties, sports games and I envy them. It is especially difficult over the holidays because the house seems so empty. Maybe people just want what they don't have? Maybe we just feel the grass will be greener on the other side? I just don't want to die in some nursing home alone.


mandatory retirement 5 years ago

I have 3 grown children & grandchildren. It's true. Your whole life becomes their life. If you are a REAL parent,

you will sacrifice your whole being. When it's time, take your time that you earned.


All of you were babies once... 5 years ago

The "men" who wrote in, probably were all about having children with their wives and didn't want to own up to the responsibility that was required of them. Today "men" aren't men but a bunch of whining selfish imbeciles. Instead of manning up and being a father....they run.


not white trash 5 years ago

I love this post, very true, my husband asks me why I"m putting weight on....Nothing to do with the fact he insists on eating out most nights to "treat me" and bring junk food into the house. Am I the only one that when single didn't have junk food in the house, then the man comes brings the junk food into the house and wonders why you eat it and get chunky? And oh the horror if you say honey can you please not bring rubbish into the house its not good for either of us..."i'm not fat you are" is the response...thank god we haven't had kids yet. I'm still trying to get him to grasp the concept that no fast food is good fast food for a child. Apparently he wants me to have diabetic children from the diet he thinks is acceptable for a child, one his parent would never have allowed him to consume.


Tom 5 years ago

I am a father of four and both wife and I are very good parents. So far kids are doing very good although we have a long road to go. Issue with us is we don't love each other anymore. We are still good friends but we have no romantic relationship at this point. I tried the honest approach and we went for counceling and none of it had am impact. The bottom line is for now we stay married for the sake of the kids. Not sure I could take the chance to mess up the kids life just so I could have a sex life again. At some point I am sure that I will leave but don't know when. Wife looks to blame someone or something but not sure their is any blame. Sometimes two people just change and decide that they want different things in life. For now I enjoy the kids and dream about my future.


Anna 5 years ago

This is a good article to read and talk about with the husband.


Marie 5 years ago

I don't know a single couple that seems happy with the married + kids lifestyle. Honestly, they seem happier divorced 95% of the time and here's why -- you get ADULT ONLY TIME! Moms can never have a kid-free weekend until the kids go visit dad at his house. Suddenly she can have a life again. Also, even if fincances become more difficult, it seems the mom and dad get along beter and work more as partners. A lot of tension seems to dissipate. This is just based on my own personal experience, but after watching about 2/3 of my friends go through divorces I can only conclude they are happier than my married friends. The kids seem to adapt. Some of them are in therapy but I think they would be because it's the 'thing' to do now. I am divorced myself and I think it benefitted me tremendously. The kids are doing fine, both in college. We divorced when they were adolescents adn despite some bumps, I think we all were MUCH happier. The air was no longer thick with miseray in our house. Everything was out in the open. I got back into dating, had time to go to the gym, got promoted at work because my ENERGY level was so much better and I felt rejuvenated. Seriously, best thing I ever did. It hink marriage is antiquated. I think legal partnerships for the purpose of raising kids make more sense, with the workload and finacnes equally divided.


RemarriedMom 5 years ago

I agree with you Maria. I divorced 5 years ago, remarried, and the kids go to their dad's every other weekend for 5 days. My husband does not want his own kids and has a pretty good relationship with my kids. My ex's girlfriend and ex love seeing the kids but are happy to give them back after the 5 days. My hubby and I love our days 'off.'

Married with kids is somewhat impossible. We evolved brains that tell us to mate and move on. The sexual attraction and romance usually dwindle and spouses end up like roommates. The never-ending stress of the household and kids- cleaning, cooking, bathing, disciplining,entertaining, educating, providing financially, etc- often creates daily misery, boredom, and stress for the once madly in love carefree couple.

On top of the daily grind stress is the proclivity for us humans to want to mate, reproduce, and move on to a new partner. We evolved this way and it's a struggle to fight it.

Tough situation for many.

Some escape through affairs. Some divorce. Some stay married and suck it up.

No easy answers.

In my case, I took the leap and divorced. All in all, it has worked out for the aforementioned perks. Plus aim more financially stable as I have a new partner who contributes financially plus my ex who is good about giving child support.

My ex does sometimes miss us as a family but he said he felt neglected, unloved, and unromanticized in the marriage. I always remind him just how tired, drained, and lost to myself I felt back in those early years when the kids were very young. I was just trying to get by day by day.

It was a tough situation and we decided to split. Now I have to say, there just seems to be a whole lot more oxygen in the air for all of us.

There wasn't enough oxygen before and we both felt like we were suffocating.

I asked my kids the other day if they wished dad and I were together. They said no...they would miss their stepdad and his girlfriend too much.

So in my case, my kids' tribe expanded and so far so good.


Bev 5 years ago

Oh my God in Heaven..I am so grateful to have found this page and all these posts. They echo my exact feelings and sentiments. I confess to feeling so guilty that I found happiness only after a seperation from the father of my children. We had a good five years prior to having kids. Once the first kid came along, I gave up my job and stayed home. At first I was going to be a super mom, but as it turned out, I was poorly suited to the job. I resented that my husband got to "keep" his life while mine changed drastically. I put on weight and became very depressed. He grew more and more frustrated at how unhappy I was. At the time I blamed him for a lot but now I realize that I was in mourning for my past - my young body, well-paid job, nice wardrobe, after-work drinks with girlfriends. I loved my son, don't get me wrong, but so much about what I loved as an adult person seemed ripped away from. No one really lets you in on this little secret until it's too late! So I got on antidepressants and muddled through. By my son's third year I was pregnant again. My second pregnancy was very complicated and I ended up on bedrest for a time. My husband was very resentful at having to do so much of the chores and housework. At the same time, I was furious at him. He aacted like I was on some kind of vacation, Meanwhile, I was bored stiff and hurting all over constantly and still having to attend to my little one when he wasn't in preschool. We got some hired help but then my husband complained about the money we were spending. It seemed like al we did was fight and by the time I birthed my second son I felt more like we were survivors of a war as opposed to a loving couple. Once #2 was in the world things smoothed over for a bit, but I remained sort of sub-par with regards to depression and I never did lose the baby weight from #2. I finally got frustrated with my husband staying late at work all the time and confronted him ...suspecting an affair. It was all too true and the hurt drove a deep deep wedge between us. Now we were bitter with each other. Where once it seemed we at least tried to talk things out, or make up after fights, now we were just overtly hostile. I finally realized I needed to go back to work if only to save my sanity. We used my paycheck to pay for daycare and therapy. That's how I justified it. I was slowly going insane but bit by bit, we patched things up enough to function. That's where we stayed at for years. Functioning. Not really angry at each other, but not in love either...or even in like. Just kind of bland. Like roommmates, but worse because you know it should't be that way. To his credit, my then husband started stepping up to the plate and spending more time with the kids, doing more around the house, but it was too little too late. I was broken somehow. We didn't talk divorce until we had this one moment, on a family vacation, where it just felt so awkward taking a picture together. I think we both realized we'd just realy grown apart and that faking it was no longer an option. We spent about three months talking it over. We divorced soon after. I am not saying divorce is the answer for everyone, but once the dust settled I was a new woman. I literaly and physicaly felt the weight lift from me. I relished my newfound freedoms. Did I miss family life at times? Sure, during holidays it was hardest. But most of the time it just felt like a rediscovery of me! Who I was, the woman behind the "MOM" label. I became more outgoing. I was able to decorate my condo the way I wanted to. My ex is responsible for his time with the kids. I don't have to supervise all the time and he can't foist things off on me all the time. They're his kids too and now he's forced to take up more of the slack. We are still not great friends but at least we're civil, we don't fight like we once did and we're less cold towards each other. I know he's dating and that's fine. I hope to meet someone soon. I feel healthier and sleep better, I have a voice again. Anyway, I agree with so many stories here. I hope mine helps someone.


Bronson_Hub profile image

Bronson_Hub 5 years ago from San Francisco, CA

The amount of forethought this article inspires is something everyone must consider before deliberately having children. To improve the quality of the world and the quality of our lives, we must make it so our offspring surpass us and create an environment that fosters improvement over generations past. Since the government will never do an adequate job of completely solving our problems for us, we must participate in creating a society where we consider the consequences of our actions. Sometimes we do not know who to consult or to talk to before asking our decisions. Public articles like this with testimonials serve well to fill that gap. Thank you, you've made a big difference by voicing this. Excellent article.


Veronica profile image

Veronica 5 years ago from NY Author

Thank you very much, Bronson_Hub. I really appreciate this.


Lynn 5 years ago

Hi! I happened across this website when I was looking up how children affect a relationship. I am a 28 year old female and I have NEVER wanted children and am adamant about it. A lot of it really had to do with how much I had to take care of my own siblings growing up because my parents were really disfunctional at the time. The responsibility that was put on me at such a young age with caring for my siblings REALLY turned me off from children. I learned young how much of a sacrifice it is.

It sucks now though because not having children at my age is an extremely alienating and persecuted lifestyle. From around the age of 24 up until now there has been a nonstop slew of my friends having children. I have always been the type that didn't feel I was obligated to have children especially if I truly knew what I wanted for myself. I can totally relate to this article however I am not married but engaged but me and my fiance have definitely expressed how we do NOT want children.

I am also the type too though that understands the outcomes of sex. Having sex can potentially lead to a child so I always told myself if by some divine intervention I was to become impregnated so be it. But i would NEVER willingly try for a child. I already feel like I have raised children and I am so glad I now have just ME to focus on. Also you are so right about potentially having a child with disabilities my sister got pregnant when she was 18 (young and in love and thinking a child would bring her and her boyfriend closer) my niece is autistic and my sister and her boyfriend are married now but not only does having the children put a strain on the marriage but also too now having to tend to a disability. It is definitely something to think about and consider when planning on having children.

Lastly the biggest thing I hate about being childless is when people say that I AM SELFISH for not wanting them. If anything I feel a person who puts that much thought into something and can rationally weigh the consequences of an action is NOT selfish but just a critical thinker. Which is what half of these parents out here FAILED to do. I would much rather choose not to have kids then to have them and end up hating them and treating them wrong.


Lo 5 years ago

Hey well my comment to Lynn.. is that WHO has children for unselfish reasons? I cant think of a more ridiculous thing to tell another human being, that making life choices that are right for them is "selfish". Wow, so all those parents who pooped out kids did it for the betterment of society and the planet...riiiiight. Most people I know had kids because they 'wanted' them and isn't that the epitome of being selfish? Nothing wrong with it but let's call it what it is! Someone wanted to be a mom,wouldn't feel complete without it, wanted that nice white picket fence, etc etc. I think it's nonsense when woman are pressured to have kids when they didn't want them. I am in same boat as you Lynn as i never wanted them and never will. Difference is I am ten years older than you so have had more practice coming up with good answers to nosy nasty questions like you get. "Since when is my reproductive status any of your business?" is one. Also, "I can't have kids" can shut most poeple up and they don't need to know the truth. I joined some organizations on line that support childfree people. My friends are now raising older kids and some of the ones who used to push the hardest for me to have kids now tell me they regret being that way. They can see I'm happy and have a nice life and am content with my choices. I have lots of freedom and income. They are dealing with teenagers and saving for college and having no privacy, plus their marriages are almost always impacted but they'd be hard pressed to admit that. I don't look down on anyone for raising a family, I just ask for the same respect they would want from me. We can disagree that it's "ALL WORTH IT" without putting the other down. Finally, I ended up here after doing a google search for why married men cheat on their wives. I am not married but remain fascinated by why marriage is so fraught with problems in our society and why so many people opt out of their marriages. This Hub was very eye opening and I thank the author for this insight.


Hank 5 years ago

If people were truly unselfish when it came to being parents they'd adopt. I agree most people have biological children because they can't stand the idea of not spreading their DNA genes around. They say they want someone to give their love to, to cherish and raise, yadda yadda. That's all well and good but the fact is there remain thousands of children in this country alone who have no parents. But no one wants those rejects. The adults want their own little baby, not someone else's kid. So parenting really is a selfish endeavor if you think about it.


crystolite profile image

crystolite 5 years ago from Houston TX

Great article.You really made a lot of point.thanks for sharing.


Sally  5 years ago

Great Article Veronica. My husband walked out on our marriage after our first born with a younger women with no responsibility and of no child rearing age. As soon as the baby was born he did nothing to help me out with anything and instead invested all his time and energy on his mistress while I worked full time and my baby was just a newborn. I think there is a major problem in society at the moment and that is that men just need to grow the hell up. Women are always left to pick up the peices of them whinging and screwing around and being self centred arses. Womens life change to when the baby comes along, you don't see us looking for a man half our age to run away from our responsibilities.

These men are just immature, childish and selfish and unfortunatley the children suffer the most. No child wants to know he or she was born in wedlock and wanted to only have the father abandoned him or her at birth for the sake of his penis.

These women that have affairs with these coward peter pans are just as bad.

So over hearing about it, it makes me sick.


ctbrown7 5 years ago

Veronica, I think you really hit on a sensitive subject. Bottomline: no one is responsible for the choice to have children but the parents. I amazed by how many people on here are blaming others for having children. Sure, you can no longer be selfish--but last time I checked anything truly worthwhile didn't involve selfishness.


not4sissys 5 years ago

Veronica,

Great article! Loved it! It's timeless and...it's honest. Truth is marriage, and children, are NOT for everyone...nor should it be.

*long winded and full of gramatical errors alert. anyone who doesn't have the stomache for it should stop reading this now*

If you are unhappily married with children it IS ALL your fault. The truth is, marriage and family life doesn't suck...you do! Why? Because you made a bad decision for yourself and for your spouse when you agreed to what you agreed to. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it isn't you that is at fault. Maybe your wife is the one that sucks...but for sure if you are hating on your marriage one OR both of you sucks!

When I was 22 going on 23 I had a talk with my bf of 3.5yrs. I told him how much I wanted a husband AND I wanted children in my life; I wanted to raise a family AND I wanted to do that WITH HIM. BUT!! if that wasn't what he wanted too then I had to leave...it was my bottom line for MY life. As much as I LOVEd him and WANTed him to share this with me it HAD to be something that he WANTed to do WITH me too...because he LOVEd me. We discussed how we wanted to raise our family BEFORE we got married. Fortunately for us we were from different religious backgrounds and because he wanted a church wedding we were required to take marriage classes which covered children, finances and how we should handle disagreements without causing the other partner any harm. Just before we took our vows, during one of our final classes we discussed infidelity issues. I was shocked!!! when the priest said to us that we each have a free pass on ONE cheat in our marriage, on the condition that we never tell our spouse about our indiscretion, however, if we were to cheat a second time we were required to share this knowledge with our spouse. I hated the idea that he was telling us that it was okay to have a one-night-stand but at the same time I was amazed at the very accepting and honest insight into what human nature is.

Monogamy is a choice, and because it isn't natural that is why it is a choice. Marriage by definition is about monogamy among many other things BUT monogamy is a paramount hallmark of marriage. Marriage is about love and about respecting that love. Making and raising children is about love and respecting that love. Marriage AND raising a family is also about devotion and occassionally making SOME sacrifices. IF, I couldn't devote myself or make SOME sacrifices I am sure that I would NOT want to be married to ANYONE! nor them to me...EVER!!

For ME, marriage is the framework for the creation of a family. For ME, family includes children from that union. For ME, a couple is NOT a family, they are a couple who for now and perhaps always do love one another but do NOT require a framework that has any legal definition. For ME, marriage without kiddies is so completely unnecessary. For ME, people who do NOT want children should do what is obvious, put an end to Russian Roulette and get sterilized. NO kid should have to be raised by people who don't want them around and resent them and resent the other parent. Children are a gift and a privilege as is your's and your spouse's love. If you don't want kids...GET FIXED!!!

I have been married for 32.5 yrs and we have 3 amazing (no not extraordinary rocket scientist kids we can brag about(bragging is so VULGAR! EWW!) kids that are all grown up now...I loved every stage of their developement...including, and yes!! especially this one!

Our eldest is getting married in a year's time and yes it's exciting but I want to know that I have talked to him and to his lovely about the real version of marriage and of raising a family AND about devotion and SOME sacrifices that must be made and NOT just the romantic fairytales that the movie industry pumps out. I want him to be happy and I want his lovely to be happy whether that be together or apart...I want to know that I did my job, as his mom and as her MIL-2-B, and that I told them "where it really is at". Them and their decisions are theirs to make and for me to respect and support. If either one of them has ANY doubts about what they want, they have an obligation to put marriage and babies on the back burner or to leave the relationship at the earliest. I had to do this in my first relationship with my first fiancée. We wanted similar but not the same things from our lives and so it was obvious that we were not meant to be together in matrimony. I struggled with this decision, trying to talk myself into going into this marriage because I loved him soo soo much BUT I knew that I wouldn't be happy meeting the conditions he asked me to meet. Instead of trying to negotiate with him another, albeit similar, plan would have been unfair of me, he should have his life exactly the way he wanted it to be and as should I. We both married other people and we both LOVE our spouses and the families we created with those wonderful people. I do carry a love for my ex-fiancée 'til this day. I love that he got what he wanted and what he needed in his life to share with a loving wife and children and the career he wanted. I know he is fulfilled. Letting go of him and our dreams was ALL ABOUT LOVING HIM and it was so easy to do once I realized how selfish and destrucive it would have been to marry him and fall into the unavoidable misery we would have caused for one another because our dreams just didn't mesh. BTW, we were only a couple of lusty teenagers (17 and 18 yrs old) who mistakened what we were feeling for each other as LOVE...we were young and didn't know any better. I still marvel at how wise I was at that tender age to know that loving him so so much meant giving him the life he deserved...without me.

No one ever gets married thinking "this is going to make me absolutely want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger til I'm dead miserable"...and if you eFFing do...well...WTF is wrong with you??!!!!! You are making the choice (unilaterally) to remove any potential for happiness and contentment for yourself, for your spouse and if there are any...for your children. You are pissing away precious time that CANNOT be restored from your spouse and you are like a childish ________ and a coward!

If marriage isn't for you, own it! Make a sign and wear it proudly! Display it for all to see and watch all those potential "I want a ___ and I want children and I want to raise a family...WITH YOU" hungry love in their eyes for you only, step aside. Do yourself and everyone else a favour and OWN IT!!

Marriage is NOT for sissies.

Thanks for allowing me to say my piece. Peace out brothers and sister.


break up books 5 years ago

The reality is very sad. There are warning signs as you say. Relationships and marriages need to have just as much work put into them as raising children, we often forget this and they take the sidelines. It is hard to find the energy sometimes.


Tricked 5 years ago

If you have an overbaring female spouse that has a high degree of mommy hormones, she can become blind to the fact two people created the kids and the Dad should not be spun-off like waste product. Let's face it, when mommy is lactating and trying to make-up for some of her own childhood issues, Dad is often left out of the picutre - surprizing that Dad still needs the same level of interaction that attracted him to the future mommy. Dad is left if pleasing himself - surprize new woman or disfunctional relationship. Women should come with a warning message. Get married, have kids, horomones will change, original person you married changes into cold sexless monster.

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