My Father, The Transsexual

Heads up...

This was written several years ago, but began an ongoing discussion I'll never forget (just check out the comment section if you don't believe me).

Those who've been affected by a transgender person/loved one in their lives also get an opinion. The experience is theirs as you will see reflected in this, that transgenders aren't the only ones with a say in this matter. Others need to be heard...

Possible Signs?

My parents were married 18 years. Several of those years my mom was a die-hard housewife to the core, even when it meant accepting my father's cross-dressing. She was a traditional woman in that, 'once you marry, you marry for life'. Our life wasn't traditional though.

I was young enough to think it was just a game when my father played 'dress-up'. As a child you look to your parents to define "normal" and if my mom seemed OK about it, then it had to be OK. But in fact I had a deep down feeling it wasn't OK.

I began to associate my father's dressing with the bad times in our lives. After all, he dressed and inhabited a female persona when stress was running high- whether it was money issues, work stress, when he was upset with my mom. It was a coping mechanism.

Besides the point: At age 5 it wasn't hard to put all this together and that 5yr old me had it figured out better than our society today. Blind inclusion without really doing the research...or at times ignoring the research and even common sense.

Growing up with my transvestite/transgender father was still confusing though. For those of you who remember the movie, 'Tootsie'- popular Dustin Hoffman Movie where he dresses as a woman... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084805/ well, I saw this as a kid and it definitely added to my delusion that it was all fun and games for men to dress up as women.

But the reality was slightly off. Many evenings my dad would sit around the house in frilly stuff and our home life would carry on as casual and usual as the rest of America's.

It was a dark secret. It's odd to me that the one person who really needs help in a family, is who everyone tries to "protect". Lies are built around them to protect them when they just need help. The entire family ends up enabling them- this applies to anorexics, alcoholics, addicts...you name it.

And now our society is hell-bent on normalizing them before getting them help. Look, I lived this lie for most of my formative years. It's not "normal". It's also not shameful- but the person does need some help and the current answer is hormones and surgery. Just like every condition is treated in our medical system with surgery or medication. They simply have no answers...and are not moving any closer to having any by passing it as normal.

"Normal" doesn't take over the family life as an addict's antics would too. It's an obsession. Everybody bends over backwards to make everything appear "normal". When society tries to normalize this, they become the enabler.

Tell me what the difference is between a gambler who gambles away the family's money, and a man who spends all the money on women's clothes to help him feel more like a woman yet interestingly they need more and more clothes to make them feel that way because the "feeling" doesn't last long.

I didn't know the definition of transvestite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestite until after my parents' divorce (due to my dad cheating on my mom)- I was about 10. That's when I remember overhearing my mom explaining to her closest friends and family about my dad's 'condition', but she didn't directly talk to me about it until I was an adult.

Transvestism seemed harmless enough in my mind. I accepted it. I look back now and I wasn't really OK with the cross-dressing, but I accepted it- not much choice when it's your own father. Sometimes I even fooled myself into thinking my father didn't continue to dress-up after the divorce, because I never saw him do it after that, but then I remember his locked closet door whenever I visited him as a teen. I remember having no college funds even though my dad made good money. I remember seeing a Gucci bag lying around...

My teen years were uncomfortable enough without my father going shopping with me and trying to convince me to dress up more, as in shorter skirts, more make-up, and pink stuff. Yeah, I know what you're thinking 'I wish my father would have bought me those clothes and encouraged wearing make-up'- well it wasn't great. I decided early on that clothes do not make the woman.

My dad was trying to be a woman. He wasn't a woman- no matter his thoughts, his gender identity, it just was like watching a poor actor.

I have never, and still don't, find a need to prove my femininity. I think I am a woman in t-shirt and jeans and casual make-up. Yes, I do dress up, but I don't feel anymore feminine than I do in my bathrobe or a cocktail dress. I realize now that my father couldn't comprehend someone who was comfortable in their own skin. He dressed up to prove something and I didn't have anything to prove. Needless to say, we saw things very differently.

Not So Pretty

As I grew-up, I learned to fine-tune my very mature adult ability to keep big secrets and sweep them under the rug. Transgender may be the up and coming new category for acceptance but if you've lived with a transgender there's more to it than simply dressing up or simply one gender wanting to be the other- there's elements of obsession and preoccupation with looks that could rival those of a narcissist.

I began studying psychology because, if anyone had a right to be curious, it was I who wanted to know what makes people do the things they do. Also, I still wanted to know why my father needed to dress up. At the time there wasn't a lot of quality media, mostly virtual vomit on the Internet, concerning transvestites- graphic images and distasteful words I could have gone my entire life, and the next, without seeing- this was 20 years ago.

Years of immersing myself in psychology, gave me the ability to not quite understand, but instead be forgiving and lenient in the ways of humans. All that psychobabble was easy to practice and believe, but it only amounted to a heap of crap the day I found out my dad had sex reassignment surgery. It's easy for the rest of society to say 'I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect me'.

The only thing I understood in that moment was a bottle of tequila. Yes, nearly a bottle for someone like me who didn't drink besides special occasions. I wasn't sure what kind of occasion this was, but tequila seemed appropriate.

Let me back up just a bit: In 2001, before the big news, my father retired from a well-known and respected position in my hometown. He moved south and that was the last I heard from him for two years. Late 2003 he explained over an email that he went to Bangkok, Thailand to get sex reassignment surgery. He not only had the genitals done, but breast implants as well. Sadly, I probably would have been OK with the genitals only, but breast implants? Too visibly noticeable I guess.

I finally had to deal with this. It's like it just blew up in my face all in one day. I had to face my new father- he/she changed his name too. He was simply waiting all those years until he retired to get surgery and all those years I was hoping his dressing impulses would decline with age.

In the awkward moments of me asking him questions, he seemed to answer in a harsh tone as if I had no right to ask. I had so many questions, but I knew my dad's tolerance was low for him being questioned about anything. I realized, for the first time, I never questioned my dad even about other things. It was time I did.

Should I be supportive and cover up my true emotions and thoughts? Should I be openly angry and disappointed and be my true self since he was being his "true self"- why can't I? There's no middle ground- the trans is looking for your full acceptance or a relationship is off the table. It's was still his number one priority.

I was initially supportive and thought I was being unselfish, a good daughter, by hiding my true feelings. In reality, my first response to this news, after the purchasing and heavy drinking of tequila, was pure selfishness:

How could he do this to me? My future kids (this was before my husband and daughter were in the picture), would be without their grandfather. Did this make me more of a woman or less? I couldn't even introduce my future husband to my "father". My father also legally changed his full name so what did my last name represent now? I felt orphaned. Would he want me in his life because I was literally a reminder he was a man? Who could I talk to about this? Is it shameful and taboo or somewhat more acceptable nowadays? Which friends and family do I share this or not share this with?

It seemed I was the only one who had to deal with this. No one openly talks about this stuff unless it's part of a political agenda. Do they realize this is real life for some of us? My mom moved on and found her a real man- second husband. I had no siblings or ever knew anyone who went through this. I had joked with all my friends when watching Jerry Springer shows of this subject matter- now it wasn't a joke! I hadn't even seen him in person, what would I do- laugh, cry, run? Where was my daddy who taught me to swim and ride a bike and play cards?

New and Improved?

The day I met my new father was sickening. Your parents are the people you think you know best and when that rug is pulled from underneath you, there are doubts about yourself that inevitably sneak up too. If you don't believe there is a difference in the way they are before surgery or transitioning, you're dead wrong.

They aren't the same person as before. It's truly an idenitity disorder and even an element of multiple personalities.

My dad greeted me with saying "Hi babe". I'm not sure if I said anything, only listened to a new voice and, well, a new person. I tried not to stare or laugh, but only because I exasperatingly hung onto the hope this was all a joke or a nightmare. That was the day I grieved the loss of my father, but with a desensitizing lack of emotion.

If transsexuals describe their need to change as something they "have/had to do" then why are there so many insecurities after the fact? They spend their entire lives doing things to convince themselves they are this "new" person after their surgeries. I've seen how it doesn't work.

All of a sudden I didn't know how to talk to my dad without offending him. And sometimes I did, by accident but shouldn't I be offended, oh I don't know, because I was lied to for so long. It's not right to lead a child on and manipulate society's leniance on gender roles in their favor.

It's been 15 years since I have known my dad as a transsexual, as a woman.

Personally I don't accept the statements, "I was born this way" or "I've been this way as long as I can remember". You are born with a sex, not a gender. Gender is what you think about yourself. What you think about yourself is your exposure to your environment.

My father continued to be very selfish after his sex reassignment. He had finally done the ultimate thing for himself and everything since has been the same way. He got used to life being on his terms- ya know, like the addict in the family that everyone tries to pass as completely normal. The world is falling apart for those around them as they go traipsing around on the jackets people lay down for them over the puddles.

I guess all I was hoping from him was... 'how does this make you feel?' or 'I can understand you're troubled and confused'. 'Do want to talk about it'? He had years to get used to himself as a woman, I had a few days, from getting the news to seeing him. There's a big difference between a dresser (transvestite) to a transsexual (the whole body make-over).

I am the incurable student of life. There is something to be learned from everything- so what did I learn through this experience? I know how it feels to be blindsided, so if I have any major transitions going on in my life, I make sure it's not a surprise to those close to me. Love is letting people in. Being open and honest, besides protecting yourself first.

For people who are waiting to unveil a big surprise to family and/or friends, don't wait. In fact, you should have never waited one minute. It's best to talk things over before it becomes big news. Waiting only makes it easier for yourself, not those you care about. It's your decision, but take others into account, and accept initial emotions even if it's anger or something unpleasant. Take responsibility for the fact that what you do effects others. Unveiling a secret or big news is not just about you.

UPDATE

I want to thank all the people who wrote into me, the emails, etc. You made me realize (after writing this) that I wasn't crazy for all these thoughts. Thank you for making it easier to open up. This was a shot in the dark, but the personal emails of those who know the reality have made it worth it.

I have a relationship with my father (on his terms). My concern in the last few years has been directed on our children in society, what they won't understand about the current transgender agenda. I'm not against trans. I am against them not receiving the help they need. I see my dad still struggle with identity issues and a lingering unhappiness.

More by this Author


Comments 586 comments

Denny Lyon profile image

Denny Lyon 7 years ago from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA

Well written; this should be turned into a book. Intriguing reading - as you have and still are working yourself through the process of redefining an important relationship.

Refusing to be judgmental really helps when you get blindsided with what you think can never become acceptable. Forgiveness? That helps free you as much as the other guy. Then life grows easier to experience.

If you were to write that book you will uncover additional inner interesting surprises of awareness you have gained from this life event. Question: What was your role and why do you think it was important for you to be born into this particular family?


izettl 7 years ago

Thanks for your comment- I was wondering if anybody would comment on this hub- it gets read but no comments so I really appreciate yours. And you have some great insight, making me think a little.

Answering your question; Growing up I hid the transvestism in the back of my mind and otherwise I always identified with my dad much more than my mom. We were a lot alike- looks, hobbies, music, knowledge and interests, career goals. I know many girls view their father as their hero and I was no exception. So when he became someone else, so to speak (a person's attitudes and personality change too with a sex change), I had to reinvent myself- I had to become myself and not his shadow. THat part of this process has been so freeing. All my life I was compared to him and now I've realized how different we actually were. I am not just like my dad anymore, I am me! The experience for me is good for my life because I have this ability to see past people's differences now. I can talk with a very mentally ill person or severely handicapped or transexual like they were just anybody and it helps these people too- to not be viewed so different. There are tons of people labeled "different" that enjoy someone talking to them and looking at them in a truly normal way and I can do that.

And to answer why I was in my parents' life, well, I bring out the compassion and human side to my dad- one of our big differences. Recently I begged him/her to see his sister and father for the first time since his change and I pleaded all the humanity sides to him- he did go and everything went ok. My dad had a great time being a father when I was little and maybe it helped him to see who he truly was. Having a child brings up the parents' childhood issues.

There is a lot more depth I have to uncover as I am still currently finding a solid footing within my dad and miy relationship so maybe writing more on it would do me good- thanks for the suggestion!


christine almaraz profile image

christine almaraz 7 years ago from colorado springs

Interesting hub. I've often wondered how the children of transexuals handle such a life altering decision. I'm glad to read that you came out of the situation with such great understanding and a personal, introspective examination of your own feelings. Great hub.


izettl profile image

izettl 7 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thanks for the comment- you are brave. I had to get introspective after being faced with a shocker. So many things in our life can be repressed in an out-of-sight out-of-mind mentality, but it was the first time in my life that didn't work.


Juliall823 profile image

Juliall823 7 years ago

Hey, This is a really interesting hub. I am currently going through something quite similar except I don't think I'm taking it as well as you did. I would really like to talk to you about your experience and mine. Please e-mail me at juliall823@ymail.com. Thanks, Julia.


Georgiakevin profile image

Georgiakevin 7 years ago from Central Georgia

This is a great hub. You are very brave indeed. Your kindness is very evident in your hub. My heart goes out to you, your mother and your father. The pain that you all have gone through and still go through is just awful No one goes through sex reassignment with out being so desperate that it is either that or harming themselves. My heart goes out to you and her that she became selfish after her surgery. Love goes beyond gender so my hope is that as she grows she will be less selfish.


izettl profile image

izettl 7 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Georgia Kevin~ Thank you for the sympathetic and kind words. It is difficult in any situation where you have your own strong feelings yet you can't help but think about the feelings of the other person too. I know my dad probably felt like he had to do the surgery and I understand to a certain degree until it hurts my feelings, then there is a conflict of feelings within me.


Katy Livingstone 6 years ago

Hi Izetti. I'm not sure if you'll still receive notification from this hub but i hope you do as i'd really like to discuss your experiences of living with a transexual father with you.

I am 23 now, i have a daughter of my own and am getting married in under a month. I found out my dad was transgenered in the messy time when my dad was disvorcing my step-mother (his second wife). I was 12 and my dad was scared my step mother would use his secret as a weapon to hurt him and us in the divorse. He woke me in the middle of the night and told me. It wasn't until i was 18+ that i first met Rachel. And i love her! I am lucky i suppose that i accpeted it straight away and we have all been a closer family since she fully transitioned to live as Rachel (pre - op)

Today she told me the that she has been given a date for her operation (8 weeks time) and i suddenly find myself unable to deal with the situation. I am totally confused by my reaction as i have never had any issues with the immense changes to our family life up until now.

I am putting it down to the stress of the wedding and how strange it will feel for us both to walk down the isle on my wedding day as daughter and 'parent' not father and daughter. My dad will always exist within rach and rach has always said that she will always be my dad, by i cant help but feel differently.

My 'dad' the masculine, strong, father who taught me how to swim and ride a bike (like you said) seems a distant memory. And i find myself grieving for the loss of that man who in reality still exists but in a newly improved female form. And a lovely one at that! The support and unconditionally love of a father to his daughter has not gone. so why am i so upset?

Do you know of any support groups for children with transsexual parents?

I hope we can chat and exchange experiances of the random emotions having a transsexual parent creates in us. :)

Looking forward to hearing from you. kind regards

Katy (katymummy1987@aol.com) xxx


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

katy livingstone~ I will leave a brief message to you here and email you when I get a chance too. Your situation is similar and different to mine, but the one thing that sticks out to me is the similarity of how you feel now that your wedding is coming up. I think you are now forced to grieve your dad. When you first met Rachael it was new person in your life and you could celebrate that, but with your wedding you are definitely notcing someone is missing- your dad. I had the same feeling on my wedding day too. My uncle actually walked me down the aisle and my dad did not even come to my wedding because e did not want to see the family members who he once knew as a different person/gender. I also grieved my dad when I had my daughter and to realize she was missing a "grandpa".

Quick answer to support groups; i don't know of any for kids of transexual parents, but i know of many for spouses and ex-spouses of transgenders. my mom and I are currently working on a book written from hers and my point of view on this topic and what we went through along the way. Will email you later...


Nicole 6 years ago

Thank you for posting on the topic. I thought I was the only one going through this and had no idea where I could turn for some understanding and suggestions about how to deal with/accept this life changing situation. Thank you for the comfort that I am not alone.


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Nicole~ glad I could help you deal with your situation. There doesn't seem to be a lot of "help" for us out there. It is a process and it is constantly life changing just for the simple fact that evry milestone in your life will be different now that your family (family member) is different.


Leafy Den profile image

Leafy Den 6 years ago from the heart

izetti,

I can only imagine the courage it took for you to write this and face and express your feelings.

I could just feel from your wonderful writing how painful this must have been and still is for you. As you know, I have had my own share of conflict with my parents but nothing to this degree - a whole change of identity! There is no question about it, this is a "death". I think it may have helped if you had siblings who you could have talked to and had shared experience but sometimes siblings can make it worse by hiding their own feelings and making you feel like a freak because you have these feelings and want to talk about them.

One of the points you made:

"Should I be supportive and sacrifice and cover up my true emotions and thoughts? Should I be openly angry and disappointed and be my true self since he was being his "true self"- why can't I? I was initially supportive and thought I was being unselfish by hiding my true emotions."

To me, this hits it on the head where so many parents have the dysfunctional delusion that they are entitled to do as they please, express what they please, hold back what they please, but they do not offer their children the same "luxury" - it is pathetic and so childish, really!

I agree with Denny Lyon above who said that you should write a book about this and am glad to know that you are pursuing this with your mom. I am sure you will be surrounded by a supportive community of people in the same or similar situation and maybe some of those transgendered who have gone through this and can shed some light on why this happened. It is not the same as your father sharing his motivation with you but maybe with enough input from others, you can piece it together to understand.

I hope you will provide updates regarding how the book is going!


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

leafy den~ thanks for reading it as I have totally enjoyed your hubs lately. you said it better than me about parents being selfish and not giving their kids the same luxury. oh well, as in your case, damage done, move on. my mom and I thought about the book for about a year and finally put things into action a few months ago.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 6 years ago from England

Hi, I totally understand about keeping secrets and I know what you mean about nothing shocking you now, I feel exactly the same, thank you for coming over and making yourself known to me about this, I will keep writing little bits about it, and if there is anything that you would like to know, just send me an e-mail, and I will get back to you, okay? thanks nell


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Hi Nell~ Glad you got a chance to read this. My mom never talked to me about it much. When she was going trhough it she was closed into herself and now that she is "over" it- she hasn't even seen my dad in 20 years, she doesn't want to talk about it. I will keep in contact with you for sure. Your story is intriguing and good to hear when so often we feel like the "freaks".


shia 6 years ago

Hi izettl.

Thank you for writing what you have. I am a counsellor who is currently working with a family going through a very similar situation. I have found what you have written very insightful and your thoughts and feelings will be very helpful in my work with this family.

What I would like to say is that MANY gay men and woman are aware of their sexual orientation from a very early age. I am a GAY woman and my memories although distorted were very much gay orientated. I have a clarity now of why I behaved like I did. An example of nature verse biology would be.. There are many documented stories of twins who were not raised together though when reuinited discover that they have led very similar lifes and have many similarites. I do belive that people are born a particular way..Gay/straight. This is not a choice. People just choose when or how they are going to come to terms with their sexality and it is never an easy time.

Again I want to thank you for your story and Im truly sympathetic to the heartache that has come from your fathers discoveries.

You are obviously an amazing woman an from your heartache you now have the opportuity to help and educate others.

Shia


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Shia~ I admire you being able to counsel people through this and I am glad there are counselors out there as a resource for this topic. Yes, I understand the biology factor because my dad said he wanted to be a woman even before he married my mom. I guess that's why I question the biological factor in that, why do "these people" (for lack of better term) bother to get married, start families, or even date the sex they are not attracted to. If it's so strong biologically then how can they lead opposite lives in the mean time? I completely agree about people choosing how and when they come to terms with their sexuality and it is usually in that time when family is hurt- unfortunately.

It may sound strange but gay is easier for me to mentally accept than changing one's entire sex- that seems more identity driven, not just sexuality. Still things I am trying to figure out.

I hope you are able to help this family and my openness in this article is not discouraging. I have taken a lot of positives from this experience too.


Sarah 6 years ago

Gosh! I have lived with this for 8 years and it still doesn't feel any easier to comprehend.

My Dad, like yours, was my idol, my hero, I was a lot closer to him than I was with my mum. I was 'Daddy's girl'. Then when I turned 21 he revealed that he liked to dress up, we were all very supported of this and was so proud that he had confided in us. A year passed and then he had decided he wanted to he a woman. Mum decided this was a step too far for her and they got divorced. However he went about things the wring way. He took my Mums place at church, became friendly with her pals and started to borrow my make up, perfume and hand bags. I found it all too weird, so left home. We didn't speak for years.

I was confused. My Dad, a very successful and clever man, gave everything up to be a woman. Why?! Does it really matter if your a man or woman on the outside. You should accept yourself for who you are, warts an all.

When he came out, he said that he felt like a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Each time I think about meeting up with this new person, he has reassignment surgery a while back, he/she throws a spanner into the works...like...oh by the way, I like men and here is a picture of us...oh yeah and he loves me for who I am. I can't help but feel angry about the way he/she behaves.

I had counselling last year, as I have found it very hard to trust men; yes I'm still single at 28. My counsellor wasn't great, she informed me that I should meet my 'Dad' and treat him as though he was an Auntie. Wtf! I want my Dad. I wanted to try and understand the condition, not replace him.

As someone else has mentioned, he/she doesn't like to be referred to as 'Dad'. That is what I find the hardest. I have siblings but my brother couldn't care less and my sister sees him/her occasionaly. They weren't particularly close, so perhaps they find it easier to deal with. I question myself occasionally on who I am. He had what he used to create me chopped off.

I haven't seen my Dad since I left home all those years ago. We text now and again and he drops birthdays and Xmas cards off at my sisters. He doesn't know my address. I still find it really hard to deal with. I talk to my friends about it now and again,but as you can appreciate they don't know what to say.

Anyway, I would love to keep in touch with you all. I could write on this subject for days. Keep strong. xx


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sarah~

thank you for writing some of your story here. The most important thing is knowing we aren't alone and this isn't YOUR problem, YOU have to get over. This was thrown in your face to "deal" with. It's one thing if we chose to be an alcoholic and live the rest of our lives finding ways to cope and recover, but we did not choose this for ourselves, it was forced on us and we still have to recover and spend just as much time coping too.

The worst part is usually the transsexual parent doesn't want to help you cope or explain the process other than it's just something they had to do. On the one hand you want to see your parent, but on the other hand it forces you to face everything you're not ready to.

I found it hard to deal with probably in the same manner you do and that's because we were both close to our dads and there doesn't seem to be any part of our dads left, not even the personality, the lifestyle or especially the same relationship we had or same looks.

Your counselor sounded awful. I was in college when my dad did this so I went to a college counselor who did a good job luckily. She helped me out a lot. she exaplained it's like grieving a parent, but they are still around to haunt you. We lost a dad, but can't just grieve it and accept it because they are essentially still alive.

I go through times when I am not on speaking terms with my dad. I want a relationship, but find it exhausting to be around him, like living in a pretend world when I just want to turn it off.

Anyway, I have mentioned above that my mom and I are working on a book about this. She is writing from the wife's point of view and I am writing on the child's behalf. Any time you want to vent or write some more or need someone to just confide in about it, my email is laurarwn@gmail.com

Take care Sarah


pauls_boat 6 years ago

hi there great hub.

i have been a cross-dresser all my life i tried to stop several times but in the end i started again i worked out i was only trying to stop for other people not for myself the cross-dressing is nothing to do with sex it is to do with who i am i also hid it from my kids until they were in there mid 20's and it was when my wife had left me for a friend of ours that i told the kids.

the reply from both of them was it is not a problem you are still our dad and always will be.

i don't try to pass as a woman just a guy who likes to wear skirts ect.

i know people think i hid it because i was ashamed of it but that was not true i hid it because i did not want my kids picked on because there dad was the weird guy who wore girls clothes.

now they are older they can do as they like if they want to tell people that i wear skirts than they can or if they don't want to they don't have to when i visit them i don't wear skirts as i don't think it is right to put them in that situation.

with your father it seams like he tried to do the same he tried to not hurt you by having the surgery when you were young and then when he did he moved away so you did not have to put up with a dad who people may have laughed at, if you think of his life he most likely always wanted to do this but put up with living his life as a male when inside he thought he should have been a women.

do you believe he should have never cross-dressed or had the surgery should he have spent all his life not doing the only thing he wanted to do just to please other people.


izettl profile image

izettl 6 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

pauls_boat~

My father did not hide it from me as a child. He dressed in full slips, make-up, etc in front of me and at an age when I didn't know if it was wrong or right, but then when I spent the night at other kids' houses I realized their dad was not this way so I wondered why he wanted me and my mom to think it is normal and we had to accept him when it felt like he didn't take us into account.

He waited to have the surgery because he wanted to retire first. He had a prominent job- lawyer/negotiator for the government and that sort of thing is not toelrated, which is another issue. It is too bad he felt that way.

Also it hurt when I knew we had the money for me to go to college but he kept spending it on designer wigs and clothes and I paid all my through college and wore cheap clothes. There was an element of selfishness and narcissism to him and that is what I had the issue with more than the cross-dressing itself. I totally understand how someone would feel a drive, an urge to do something. Many men try to stop pornography but have a hard time so it doesn't mean it is right. We understand and know less as a society about cross dressing and transsexualism so we don't know what should be toelrated or is a mental illness. I don't believe people are born that way- something happened and nobody remembers themselves as babies or 1 or 2, maybe 3 or 4 years old. I have mixed emotions because we have become OK, as a society, about gay people, but I still don't even believe they were born that way. Studying psychology, I believe something happened on an emotional/mental level before. I believe emotion and thought precede action.

I think you were very respectful to your kids and the way you went about it. There is a lack of information regarding how to deal with family if you are a cross dresser or want to be a transsexual. I don't believe my dad should have denied himself, it was just the way he dealt with it. I had finally gotten to a point of understanding my dad as a cross dresser and, without warning, he had a complete sex change. He had years to ruminate this decision and I was blind-sided. Just a little warning would have confirmed some respect for me, from him.

I really appreciate your view as it has opened my eyes that it is not so much what he does or who he is, but how he went about it. He has made me feel like a freak by not understanding or jumping on board with it all, yet I feel like the normal one.


judith 5 years ago

I am astonished to find this Hub. For years I have checked the internet to see if other children of transsexuals posted anything. In all my research, there is never any true concern about the child of a transsexual by either the transsexual parent or the therapists and researchers, as their only concern is that you be supportive of the transsexual parent. I have corresponded with two other daughters of transsexual fathers. It's been years. They could talk about their siblings, but it was years after the event of the sex change that they were even able to think about it themselves, their situation, because you have to dissociate from being a real child to become a supporter of a transsexual. It's not like having a parent who is disfigured due to an accident. Its all about being supportive of the transsexual. You become an audience member instead of the child. And you don't want to be "unsupportive." So you become frozen,, afraid to make a mistake, to hurt the "new mommy." You can't put what you feel into words, into thought, because youcan't think in their presence, you feel like you have become 'something else,' but then dissociate from that feeling when you are not with them. I'll try to post more later.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

judith~ this is important info to be out there. At first I wrote this just to get some things out of me, but then I realized, when researching the topic, there is no good and decent information out there. My mom and I are working on a book supporting the wives and mothers of transsexuals because the view, as you know, is the transsexal went through "the change", but the family (children etc) are changed forever too. It's like we get sucked in because we were part of the transsexual's "false" life so now we must live the false life. THey chose to have families, children, get married, and it was not the life they wanted, but when they changed we were supposed to forget that life as well and live in their new world. It's always a tricky balance. I'm always up for discussion on here so please feel free to come back and post anything. I really want to represent children of transsexuals in my upcoming book.


Judith 5 years ago

Another good web article for you and your readers is by a psychologist in Australia, whose father changed sex at the age of 67. I couldn't get the link to copy out of the address bar, but you go to the site Australian Humanities Review, click on contributors, and go down the 'g,s' to Steven Gunther. I think the entry is over ten years old, but I am sure it will resonate with your readers.

Until very recently you had to be divorced in order to get the surgery. Now you don't evidentally. But since the surgery has been around for almost 40 years now, I don't think anyone should get married and have children with someone who will potentially have this surgery. There was a custody case down in Florida where the trans-sexual father got custody, and there was no research on how this can affect children, other than Green's study of young kids, who were basically just observed in the type of toys they liked. They only looked to see if the children's sexual identity was affected. I know I was 21 when this happened in my family, back in the 1970's, but it took me 14 years before I could even let myself think about this. And you know you can't shut down just one part of you mind without affecting everything else. I don't think researchers can ever get at what happens to us. But I bet if you asked each one of us none of us would want it to happen to anyone else. My siblings and I after all this time can't talk about it because one dissociates so much, that there are no thoughts to speak of. There is a paralysis of the ability to think about it. Can you imagine any child able to describe being frozen, taken psychological hostage? The very nature of the situation subtracts our ability to think.

So I think every woman should make their prospective husband sign a prenuptual agreement that they have never cross-dressed and/or had thoughts of being of the wrong sex. My mother had died shortly before this happened to my father and I think he cracked and felt he had to replace her. I have always wandered if those with mothers were that much better off, as the mother would be as overwhelmed and need to dissociate from this and not be able to be all there for her children. When you think about how difficult it is even today to talk about sex with your children, imagine trying to deal with this situation, you might lose faith in you ability to have any insight into your children if you hadn't had it into your spouse.

This frightens me in those cases where the transsexual goes for custody, because they do all these interview by social workers, etc., and the mother might be considered hostile and affecting the children. Keeping ones mind together is impossible when one can'tthink. In our case we were told our father would commit suicide if he didn't change sex. I was even quoted to from the new testament about the need to be reborn in order to be saved. We just believed all this. But in the ensuing couple of years I noticed my father seemed to be using my younger siblings as part of his costume, and they were speechless with him out in public, couldn't lift their heads. When I had to talk to my father long distance about the needs of the children, I couldn't get him to listen and take anything seriously when he was using his falsetto voice. It was almost as if I had to verbally slap him to get his attention to the reality of a child with emotional needs separate from his own. When he spoke in his normal voice none of the artificial hand gestures and prissiness went on, and then he could interact like a real parent. The children didn't have the abiility to demand this change from him. This is what is so hard to put into words, because the children will always repeat, I want my daddy to be happy, I want my daddy to be happy to anyone who asks, but they can't think or act beyond that. That's the thing about this, the transsexual is no longer an adult and is always acting out, demanding an audience. As parents you realize you can't be acting out and be a parent. There is a loss of emotional contact that is essential for the child, the parent responding to the needs of the child instead of the other way around. \

I'd better stop here. Your article is great, and I hope you read the Stephen Gunther one.


David Diane 5 years ago

I think you suck. But it's not your fault. Anyone who doesn't experience themselves as male/female would never in a gazillion years have the slightest clue that it is just the way we are. If I told you you're a bigot you'd be offended but you are one. A sexual/gender orientation bigot because your "normal" hetero experience is your only frame of reference. Do you realize it's probably incredibly painful for your dad in some ways and at the same time not so much because he's never been loved for himself anyways. But if I wanted to make a point I would point out that simple acceptance and a healthy dose of so $#^%$ing what might've gone a long ways. I'm not sorry for you in the least.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

David Diane~ Did you read my hub or the comments of others? Just wondering because the main "complaint" kids of transsexuals have are it's all about the transsexual. You say "do you realize it's incredibly painful for your dad in some ways, etc". Oh yes, I realize it's painful for him; it's all about him. Not once did he tell me about why or what he was doing. Parents usually explain to kids why they get divorced so why couldn't this be explained by him? Sometimes all the family wants is an explanation, but the transsexual has already moved on and into new personalities, clothes, life, and I have to carefully make sure he thinks I "accept" him and am overjoyed by his change. Family has to be real careful to make them feel assured and secure and great about their decision, but who gives a $#!! about the family. WHo makes sure they are secure and comfortable? All the tip-toeing around what's good for the transsexual they don't take the time to realize they've had a lifetime to get used to the idea. The fact that my dad told me AFTER he did it shows he had a lack of concern about my feelings. That would be like me telling him about my wedding AFTER I got married. Oh, by the way he didn't come to my wedding because he didn't want the rest of the family to see him/her. Maybe he felt bad about that, but so do I.

You don't get it DAVID! It's not what they did, it's how they did it; you see, the family is more likely to be accepting of it than the general public. I notived that always. I am being judged as much as my dad is when I am in public with him, but I'm the "bigot"? Of course I accept what's done- I can't chagne it so no dwelling on it. It's the way it was done David, but I don't expect you to understand this because your only point of reference is your view, not from the family's point of view. Thanks for the comment.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Judith~ it's been a while since you last responded but I've read and re-read your comment and you have such a profound view and so much information on this topic. It's obvious you've done the emotional work and research to help you. Your last comment about a parent acting as a parent and not acting out being selfish like a kid is a terrific representation of what many children go through with "changed" parents.

Yes I read th article you suggested and it was great. I haven't read much of anything that really acknowledges this matter so it's refreshing to find something that does.

Great to meet you Judith and of course feel free to come back and share anything else.


Tina 5 years ago

Hi Izettl

I am a post op transsexual woman I would just like to say this is a great hub, web page, I am looking here because of the different angle this gives me so i can maybe understand why my kids will not accept me. I am in the same position as your father was, I was married for 21 years and I have two grown up kids in there early twenty's unfortunately I have had very little contact from them since I told them that I intended to transition.

I admit I have not handled the situation of my kids very well,though right or wrong I did not dress in front of them at all when they were growing up so they had no idea whatsoever that I was TS when I told them, I told my daughter first who seemed to handle it well at the time ,I never got to tell my son as my ex got there before me that was three years ago this Christmas.

After reading your article I can see there is a large difference the way my son and daughter see me and I thank you for sharing this article as I have always thought that what I did was not that bad until now, I think It`s a fair reflection on the impact I have caused my Kids and I often wonder if they will ever contact me, being the way I came out was ok for me but it probably destroyed their entire life.

I stayed in a small village and half the population worked in the same factory as I. I am in my mid forty`s , the law had been changed to support the transsexual transitioning in the work place and as I had worked there nearly 18 years I felt I could cope with this.

I had just separated from my ex who had just been re-housed with my kids, this was not far from our existing house so when I transitioned there was no hiding place for my kids, my work was ok at first but I was only months into transition when I lost my Job, that was quite a shock and looking back now It would probably have been better for my kid`s if I had moved away before transitioning as I eventually had to move away later.

My honest opinion is there is no winners in natures cruel twist not for the TS or for the people left in the aftermath, I look at my personal journey and I am one of the lucky won`s I live and I work in complete stealth I have a wonderful female partner and a good life now I am at ease within myself. But the scars I carry are very deep, the pain of loosing your Flesh and blood (kids) is destroying and I would not wish the pain and emptiness that causes on my worst enemy.

Only time will tell if my Son and Daughter can forgive and let me back into there life, then I will have a new dilemma of what to say to my kids?

Tina


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tina~ It's not like I don't understand the dilemma you were faced with and the desire to change. My problem was how it changed my dad's personality too and how he went through the whole process without even talking to me or preeping for it.

For your situation, your kids are picking up on what their mom feels about it. My mom is well past forgiving and moving on so it makes it easier for me. It depends on how much you've changed your personality to match the outside.In this case it is really hard for even grown kids to accept a whole new person. I've explained it as a death of a parent, but the parent and pain still lingers. The focus for them should be on the importance of family. THey don't ever need to "accept" it, but appeal to them as a family member and someone who loves them and wants the best for them. It never helps when the ts parent act like they need to convince the child to accept them. That is up to them and may change when they have kids of their own or go through other life events. I am not as close to my dad after his/her change, but mostly due to him finding my need to clarify and understand annoying.

You don't need to say anything other than answer their questions as good as you can and let them know you will answer them,but it takes time to look back on a childhood and make sense of it all. Don't forget your parental role and be open to their communication when it happens. For me, it felt like my dad forced all on me. I "accepted" him right away, but then grew distant over time. Perhaps I should have taken the necessary time to think about things then approach him. It is still hard to think about the different life my dad leads. It's like the elephant in the room- so to speak.

THanks for reaching out and commenting. Your ontribution was wonderful.


Judith 5 years ago

Wow. I don't know what I am going to say, and that frightens me, not knowing what will come up. And then again, I posted something to another hubpage, I think it was Charm M, could have been Nell, and I accidentally erased half of what I had said, and didn't know if my mind could ever go back and say it again. So what came up didn't have the first half , and made what is already difficult, seem even more confusing. But I went back and tried to clarify.

So, again, Wow, to the comment above this one and your response. I had to reread everything, and still can't remember, but let me see if I can go back to your response without erasing this. Hold on.

You said, something like, you were not as close to your dad after he changed, not because you weren't supportive, but because of his difficulty with your need to clarify and to understand. Let me take a deep breath here. Actually, I am so nervous and new with the computer, I am going to post this, so I don't lose it like I did on the other site, and try to come back on.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Judith~ I am familiar with both Char M and Nell. Nell is currently going through life with her changed husband. She is very candid about everything. Char M has long been divorced from her transsexual ex husband. I've emailed with her and she has really come to forgiveness, but still feels she has to read through people's lies and is big on not living a lie in any way in her new marriage. Both are great sources on here.


Judith 5 years ago

I am still not composed. But your saying in your response to Tina, how it had nothing to do with being supportive, but the difficulty of your need to clarify and understand. A transsexual doesn't know now to understand this, what exactly the clarification is. I even don't know what I am going to say, or if it will make sense. And I am obviously speaking for myself, and not you, to Tina, I know I understood it all the first time it was explained in detail to me. Not that my father explained it the same way to my younger siblings. I wasn't there and don't know. But I was given pamphlets that explained it. There was more than one pamphlet. I mean, my father did tell me wanted to be a woman, and the usual introduction, but later on I was given some pamphlets from a group called The Erickson Foundation. Believe me, I was too young and inexperienced to understand the difference between 'sources, but it was basically the same stuff we were told at Johns Hopkins. That is where they first started this surgery in the US. And while people question things these days, back then people believed doctors, and I accepted this as a medical condition, just like you would if you had to meet a doctor that explained the diagnosis of anything of a loved one so you could do what was necessary to help them. I believed the doctor, that my father had to do this or else he would commit suicide or self-mutilate. The very idea of being unsupportive never occurred to me or my siblings. We all totally understood that if our father didn't go off for two years for the real-life testing before the surgery. Sell the house, me take the kids, etc. Off course, the children were only

to keep a few things, I guess the typical things when one has to move. And I wish I could get to where I'm going with out details, but the way this stuff is stored in my brain, I can't seem to. I remember helping when they were packing up and one of my father's co-workers who was helping me, pulled me aside, I guess because I was the oldest, and asked me why I wasn't stopping my father from doing this. I am sure he had trouble even getting that out, and he didn't even know me. But in retrospect it might have been because I had turned 21, and I guess I was considered an adult and could have something to stop it. None of that even occurred to me. I just remember being startled by his question, I don't know that I even said anything. I didn't understand why the question, a doctor had explained that my daddy would commit suicide or self-mutilate if he didn't do all this stuff, go off and live for two years before the surgery. I probably dissociated from that as something that I didn't understand, and continued with the moving and saving what few things I could save for the children. I was old enough to appreciate mom's pots and pans and I still have them.

At some point I went into one of the children's bedroom and found him stabbing his teddy bear, that he always slept with. And the new guitar from christmas, that he wanted so bad and loved, was crushed. The very act of trying to save a few things that were important was an impossible task for someone that age, it takes a parent. I may have just turned 21 but I was no parent. But he said he couldn't ...Well, I can't remember the exact words, but even someone as oblivious and in an alterted state as I was, could see that the things he was destroying were the things he loved the most, that he had pulled out as the first things he wanted to save before he even got into the frame of mind going on to otherthings. He did say he wanted to die, that he wanted to stab that knife in himself but he had tried and couldn't. I didn't have to ask to understand that the stabbing had moved to the teddy bear and the guitar.

I must have walked in as he was doing it to the teddy, so it was like coming across someone who had murdered someone when they were still in the process, complete with the blood and the knife held in the air, displaced onto the Teddy Bear. So I obviously stayed there and helped. Years later I try to imagine that if our mother had been alive, even in her own struggle, she would have dragged my father in there to look and no one would have had to tell him he had to stop this, that his supportive eight year old son wanted to die and had actually destroyed very violently his most precious possessions.

So, I get a little crazy about the word 'supportive', because it is never a question of being supportive. It's always about accidentally saying Daddy, and making him


Judith 5 years ago

Sorry, the text got highlighted and I couldn't get the cursur to work on it. That is what happened last time and half of what I said got erased. I knew i couldn't get back to the same place and keep going on with this so I hit post again, rather that lose it.

It was about accidentally saying "Dad" or 'Daddy" and making him 'unhappy' and then he would commit suicide or self mutilate. And even though I was the oldest, this is what I thought. Well, there was actually no thought involved, if was a terror of myself, I became a potential father killer. One can't relax, because then in a relaxed state you might accidentally cause daddy to be unhappy, so therefore he would have to kill himself and it would be my fault. This goes way beyond kids feeling like they caused their parents to get a divorce.

And, you don't even think this, it becomes embodied in what it takes to survive and not have daddy die. It's as if we become hostages to ourselves, a mechanism takes over that is something you can't put into words, its like being an actual hostage with a gun held to your head and being carried along with the hostage taker using you as cover. A person in that situation is not having any thoughts, they have surrendered, they are powerless, they struggle to take steps and the hostage taker has to drag them along because they have trouble getting their feet to move. They are like a rag doll. The hostage taker practically has to carry them and push them to get them to move. Well, all I can say is that I am not metaphorically giving this description to titillate and horrify someone. It took be 15 years before I could even find the words to describe what is a very real paralysis. And this is something a child feels when he or she becomes afraid that he will cause daddy to die.

I think the transsexual sees this frozen child, and can see they aren't who they used to be, the self-possessed and selfish creatures that children are, and what we want them to be, and the transsexual assumes that the mother has turned them against him. They see a loving child, frozen in fear of itself, obviously not who they used to be, and who could have possibly done this but the 'evil mother'. No mother freezes their child like this. For those mothers in this situation, I am sure that they feel as dispossed of themselves and as at sea as the children do. Plus, I think the mothers are in a state where they have to doubt themselves because they never saw this other person, the 'real person', and they married and had children with them. Their brain and self-confidence have been compromised as well. Just because their body and demeanor match the childrens, it is not that the children are basing their response on the mother. Their nervous system has taken the same blow.

I am going to take a brake here, because I have said a lot and I am in a knot.


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, I can't imagine what it might be like reading this, for you, even for a transsexual. I mean it took me years to come to words that even approached the fealing I had when I was with my Dad. Especially after he had gone off to have his 'real life test.' I am not sure this is what they call it. Its very hard for me to remember exact words. But I was certainly in contact with him, and he would be falsetto in his voice, and even across the phone lines you could tell he was waving his hands around in an exaggerated mimic of being a southern woman. I couldn't get him to pay attention to the details I had to to take care of the kids when he talked like that. I had to tell him to talk in his normal voice so he could hear the details of why we needed more money for one child to have braces. I didn't think it at the time, only just this very moment, that anything having to do with an added expense would cut into his budget for surgeries and exfoliation, and things I knew nothing about. It was one thing having him go off and do what he needed to do so he wouldnn't have to commit suicide, but when I first saw him after the surgery I went into shock. I am not exaggerating. I actually fell into the chair behind me and froze. I hadn't expected the new nose, and the Marilyn Monroe wig, and the feet sticking out of the skirt that had these ugly shoes on, and the perfume, and the hands waving all around. I didn't judge. I didn't critisize. Those thoughts never occurred to me. I was shell shocked. Again, that is not metaphorical. It happened at my grandfathers house, who had been a medic in the pacific, and I overheard him talking to another relative, that what he saw was everybit the same as he saw on the beaches of Okinawa. He was struggling talking about it. I even heard him say he wished he had had some morphine to give me, that at least on the beaches when those soldiers looked up at him, beyond feeling anything, and fixed on his face as if he were an angel if they were conscious, and he would say the "Our Father with them, he always gave them morphine so they would die without pain. And he was so busy running to the ones who felt pain, he could only be grateful for the ones who were doped and out of it and could die in peace. I think he was talking to another retired medic. Still, overhearing this, I didn't take it in. Its like it got stored without thought. I'd never heard him talk this way, and years later I realize it was because he had to talk to another medic about the beaches and the marines in the pacific for the first time in his life. I didn't even know what shell shocked was then. And it wasn't the ones on the beach that were injured and he could help them on their journey with morphine he was just talking about. It was the ones that were physically uninjured, but had lost their minds and ability to function. That is what he saw.

No, I was not being unsupportive. Biology, mother nature did that to me. My father ran on and on and gestured and talked and then maybe, I don't know, because it was never talked about, just maybe he came out of his 'real self' and realized his appearance had done this to me. Just maybe. I don't know. He had seen enough shell shocked people himself. He had had to put my uncle back together after he got out of a Russian prison in a spy swap. He must have seen something of my uncle in that time after the swap occurred, when all the debriefing was going on, which I understand can be as hard as the actual imprisonment if they are not sure you are going to make it. I saw my uncle. He was skin and bones, had been in isolation, something I knew nothing about. Parents don't tell their kids this kind of thing. My dad could carry him, he was so light, and couldn't walk. So I think that was why he suddenly got up and fled, it was like seeing my uncle, the lack of expression on the face, the having to help them eat even. because the Russians didn't have time to nurse them back to health before they returned them. They wanted theirs back as much as we wanted ours back, before they could get anything out of them, but my uncle had been in solitary, already tortured, for I don't know how long.

God, I didn't mean to go into that. I didn't mean to leak that. Its just when I ever hear them say that we have to be educated to be supportive, and that they keep trying to tell us more and more because we don't respond like our oldselves, so therefore, must have been influenced by a mother, or ignorance, etc., they are deluding themselves. The Russians used everything on my uncle. I am sure he was waterboarded, whatever. This was in the days of the the U2's, something I know you are too young to know about. They want to die before they give anything up. A pilot can hope to be able to swallow the pill so he won't be tortured, but not all of them wer conscious. And if you weren't a pilot, but they got you someother way, god help you. So when I hear them thinking we have become unsupportive, when our bodies and minds have frozen inorder that they not be unhappy, not accidentally say daddy.....

It has nothing to do with being unsupportive. It has to do with being so strong and supportive that we look and act differently. And they will never get it. They won't be able to face it. Even the therapists and surgeons involved can't get their heads around this. You can read all the literature, and I have, and its the ones that are most intimately involved in the surgery, etc., that call us all unsupportive in their 'research.' In their papers....They can't take it in themselves. The doctor at Johns Hopkins, Dr. Money had a look, or something that was paralyzing. It was a sneer, and I wasn't saying anything, even moving, I was just a recorder taking in everything he said so I wouldn't accidentally cause daddy to die. He saw a frozen child, and he even thought I was unsupportive. I have got to stop, and I am sorry t his has come out. I am sorry for those who will read this and have to dissociate, or call me evil, or whatever, because I know in advance they have to defend themselves from this knowledge. I'd better break here because I am going to go thru something from just having let this out.


Tina 5 years ago

Hi Izettl

Thank you for replying to me as I was not sure If I was welcome on your hub so I have had a bit of time now to digest some of the comments on your hub page and wow have I stepped right into the lion pit,

Just to answer Judith as a woman with a trans past , reading through some of what has been said is very sad heart breaking and emotional, the phrase The Truth Hurts comes to mind but I am still here and not running away just yet.

I have read this great hub and I will need to again and again as I keep picking up new points that I missed the first time round, It does very much make me think of all the wrongs I have done and if only I had this information before I transitioned, don`t get me wrong I do not agree with everything that has been said here I do believe I done what I had to do to be me and that`s all I am Is Me, and even I don`t get this bit, people come up and ask me why I wanted to be a woman, I didn’t and I never say I did , I always say I just wanted to be me. Call me odd but I am the one when I go to a tranny meeting and I don’t go, but on the occasion when I have I get annoyed when they say to me why have I not got any makeup on or why am I not wearing a skirt and like (I think) you said Izettl I don’t feel I have anything to prove. I am a woman I always was just trapped in the wrong wrapping.

I am going for now as this has thrown up a lot of questions for me seeing the effects from the other side of the coin I need to think, but before I go thank you for letting me comment, If any one wants to ask me a qestion then please feel free.

Tina.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Judith~ as long as it was since you went through this, the stigma of "supporters" not upsetting the transsexual is still intact. We are the ones viewed as crushing their worlds or upsetting them if they aren't welcomed with open arms by us. I loved my dad so I never second guessed being supportive until I began second guessing his decision and then he was not supportive of me. I was in the middle of getting my psychology degree when my dad let me know about his change and I had heard there is a high rate of suicide among TS so I didn't want to rock the boat.

My dad did not get the required counseling or living a couple of years as a woman before surgery. He went straight to Bangkok, Thailand to have the sugery done. So of course I was disgruntled that he didn't even go to counseling or talk to me first. Was he afraid someone would be able to talk him out of it? I think so.

I have the same memories of my dad when I was kid. At that time he was a transvestite and walking around in wigs and full slips and acting "strange". As a kid, I thought that was playtime and it's sick now to find out it was part of his real world plan. For them feeling like it's only natural to become the other sex, they seem awful awkward when being the opposite sex.

I needed braces, college money, etc, but all of that went for his expensive clothes, wigs, maek-up and surgeries.

It's odd, just so they can be "themselves", we have to be so different. Every time I'm around my dad I feel as I'm contradicting myself.I still feel if I'm around him too much I change too much around him so I keep my distance.

Things seem so very tough during the time you had to go through this. Who in their right minds would make a child feel like your dad's life is dependent on you.

Tina and Judith~ My dad explained things the following way. First, his dad made him kill his injured dog when he was 7 because his dad was always trying to make a man of him, the nhe went to vietnam where he killed other men to further become a man himself so I realize the connection of bad things and being a man, but lots of men went through the same things so it didn't explain what it meant to him and why.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tina~ you are more than welcome here and I am always open to understanding more. It's refreshing to have a TS actually not get mad about what I've wriiten. We all have our definite points we won't compromise. TS say they had to do it and kids of TS have the issue of support. I believe Judith had a rough time because of the way transsexualism was described to her. Very tough and "medical".

My dad still likes to flaunt his change in front of me and I don't know why. If I go to his house, he has a few pics of him all dressed up out on display. For me, that makes me re-live the time as a child and feeling like I was all part of his greater plan- just a puppet. That is most hurtful to me.

As a kid, he stressed the point of men dressing as a woman to be "normal" because many comedians were doing it at the time. It just feels like a lot was a lie to protect himself instead of his child. It would be the same case if it were any other lies that transpired in a family with kids; affairs, criminal activity. My dad has always made me to feel the odd one out because I don't "understand". His attitude to me is a silent "what's your problem"? Also he's said things about how he gets compliments on his wigs or leaving his bra out in his office one time when I visited. It's just kind of icky feeling. It's like the feeling as a kid you get when your parents want to talk about sex to you and you feel gross. It's weird; I want to know why and understand but I don't really want to have that conversation nor how to start it or walk away if it makes me feel uncomfortable. Maybe this is some of what your kids feel too.


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, Tina. I know you are a good person. I always dreamed of being able to say ‘daddy, please don’t leave us,’ but I didn’t even know that he would be leaving, in that the old way of communicating would disappear, because of the fear and what it did to me, and to him, too. I didn’t know we would both disappear. The two people that used to exist no longer existed. I was already afraid to hurt him, and he no longer saw the old me in front of him. The relationship and ability to respond existed in the past. It is not a fear you can talk out. No, its like holding on to someone on a cliff, it is real fear, fully embodied in the situation. I didn’t wish to lose the strength of my grip on myself. I did not want to change into something else, but I did want to be strong. And, I was. And that strength required role reversal. Role reversal in its dynamics and responsibilities.

People always said I should forgive my father. I never blamed him for anything. What was I going to forgive him for? No, the transsexual needs to forgive us for changing into something else, our response level, our demeanor. We can’t help it. It looks unsupportive because it is not the old child self, its too strong. Its too supportive.

I feel guilty that I wasn’t able to talk my dad back from the cliff. I wasn’t able to save my family, or other children of transsexuals, and their fathers, too. I am sure I am not the only one who has tried to find a way. The literature says that transsexuals are unresponsive to analysis, talk therapy. Well, if that were true, my words should have no effect on you. But I think the regimen, protocol, group therapy that the gender dysphonic get involved in makes it pretty impossible. And is there a role model out there of someone who was able to walk back from this situation. I am sure that there are those that have, but they are not ‘in the literature’ are they? I remember reading how difficult it was to do long term studies because people withdrew and weren’t available for long term ‘follow up.’ I know of one case where someone changed back. It was a pediatrician who changed sex, adopted a son, an infant, and then realized he did not want to live a lie with his child, and switched back. I saw that in a tabloid press about 15 years ago. And I think that others who have regretted it haven’t been able to find the words to express what they regret. Do they regret that they had surgery and wish to change back, or do they regret that their interactions with others has changed, the quality of their relationships have changed?

One thing I know that definitely changes is that once you start the first step of taking hormones, you are going to feel different. Menstruating women feel it every month. Menopausal women feel it continuously. Hormones have very real effects on your emotions and sense of self. There is no way that a man taking hormones is going to feel like his old self. Forget the surgery, etc. Once the hormones are in you, you are no longer your old self. I have even started seeing ads on TV for men to check to see if they have low testosterone. I know those people don’t feel like their old selves. They don’t feel like the man they used to be. I imagine even cross-dressers age and experience the same problems that make them want Viagra, or testosterone. I know Viagra and testosterone are two different things, but if you were a cross-dresser, and you started feeling different, and questioned yourself, you are more likely to think you must have been meant to be a woman. In a way, mixing female hormones with cross-dressing is like mixing valium with alcohol. That may be what makes the crazy acting out of some transsexuals. Hell, I think most people know what it is to act out when drinking.

Add to that the very real social pressure of the gender support groups, the pressure to conform to the ideal, to be striving to achieve, and not let your fellow members down. How different is that for a kid in puberty, hormones raging, and going off and doing crazy things with their peers who are going thru the same thing.

You seem like a very reflective person, not quite fitting in with the expectations of your peer group. They don’t want to see you do that because they would have to doubt themselves. So they gang up on you. I can even see the exaggerated expressions of the group. You would have to have a great moderator to control the flamboyancy, and then I suspect the age range varies thru the group. For those who started gay, and moved to gender disphoria, the expectations are different than the cross dressers. And, I can imagine people trying to correct my usage of terms, I.e. cross-dressers don’t change sex, primary and secondary transsexualism. You know that they are all over the map. As you go thru each step of the change, its as if you all have to find a new way to fit in. Some are ‘straight’ and still want a woman, or become ‘lesbian’, it is impossible to follow the terminology. The only thing that is stable is that people like my self can never satisfy some of them. Try as we might, we are always going to misspeak.

I am just speculating here. I may have even approached the truth. If it were true, or on the right path for the majority, it would have to be decried as deluded, ignorant, etc. That is why there is no changing back, even if someone figured it out, it is hard to face truth, self doubt. I doubt myself. I doubt my ability to not accidentally hurt you. I certainly don’t intend to. I am just sharing what I have thought about in the past, the hormones, etc. I don’t doubt that men can throw themselves away, to not want to be a man, if the stresses and actions one has had to perform (military) make you want to flee. I am sure there are all kinds of paths to that state of mind. I have always thought it is harder to feel like a man than it is to be a woman. It isn’t easy maintaining self confidence in personal and professional areas for men. Women can lose confidence from being raped, etc., but they don’t feel like changing sex. I know men who were molested as children, even only once, who have never ceased to doubt themselves. Self-doubt in ones projected persona is endemic to being a man, it seems to me. The very nature of male interaction on a social, playful arena seems to be proving what kind of man you are. Pay to play, and all that.

Your sons have not rejected you, they just cant deal with the arena, the terms of play. They can’t put it into words. I don’t think I have found anyone where it hasn’t taken 15 years before they can even begin to find words to speak to themselves, think. I don’t remember the details of your comment, but it may have just have been a few years your sons are into this situation with you. And, there is a very real reason therapists don’t bring up things to people that can’t handle it, who could dissociate. So you may even find the right words to make an opening to your sons someday, but they may not be able to deal with it then. You can only hope they grow and can parent normally with some level of confidence. You can’t ever undo this, but you might find a new place to meet, but that is someday. It will be as difficult to find a ‘real opening’ and take it slowly, as difficult and courageous as we are told it takes to become your ‘real self.’ and change your sex. Words get so charged with meaning in this situation. I don’t doubt your earnest concern for your sons. Just don’t push, teach, educate, etc., as if you had to convert them. Let them remain who they are now, they can never go back to being who they were.

I think you indicated that you wish you had been able to find a site like this earlier. It didn’t exist. Therapists feel peer pressure also. They won’t caution you on your children, they would think they were violating their ethics not to discriminate on the basis of gender identity. Very few have insight in what it takes to undo all identity, or fix it. They can’t help but help the child discriminate against itself, in their desire not to discriminate against you. That


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I sometimes struggle with my dad because I know he sees me as a reminder to his past as a man he didn't want to be and that burden hangs over me as well as it does him.

Every case is so different from how they got to want a change; how much mental and how much physical. Prefer gay relatiosnhips or not, etc. There is such a variance in each case, how are they treated so similarly by the medical and psychological professions? Counseling and hormones. It doesn't make sense to me.

Someone once explained to me that after the change that talking to the TS is like touching a burn victim, every little thing is felt intensely. Nobody likes walking on eggshells in any relationship, and is expecially awkward when it's a parent.


Judith 5 years ago

Yes, I understand. Stephen Gunther commented on the same thing in his web page. It occurred to me, too. But I also thought that everything was a lie, that the love I had felt from my dad may have been acting, that he really was tortured at all times, and that all my memories of how things used to be were all likes, as if I had dreamed it. So to think of the past in any way, I had to always ’remember’ that dad was being tortured, too. Children will really do a number on themselves, won’t they. One of my sister is so scarred because she thought she caused it all, because she ran the car into a ditch and daddy got mad at her and didn’t want any of his life if it included her. I can’t begin (and won’t) to describe the affect this has had on her relationship with her husband, so afraid to upset him, and always ’in the wrong’. She absorbs everyone’s problems onto herself. All through her twenties, when she called, she would talk about how wonderful everything was, chattering all around things, much like my father, the transsexual father. This was all on long distance. I would know something was wrong, and come right out and ask, and it would be like slapping her out of a hysteria, she would collapse and cry that she had brought this all down on our family. This was for I started even questioning any of this myself. She ended up adopting her children, because she and her husband thought she carried the gene for this. I only state this fact, because I know how so many children aren‘t able to handle the genetic explanation. Even my youngest sibling, in elementary school, was afraid to wear ‘jeans‘, (yes, I said, ‘jeans’). She was in her mid-twenties when she told me this. The discussion of genes in explaining it, done by the ‘family therapist’ made her think when she wore jeans people could look inside her and see what she would become. She was afraid of becoming anything but herself, and every time she cried, therefore was unhappy, she thought her body was going to change, because her daddy had to change ‘because he was unhappy.’ This still makes me ill.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

judith~ so we can agree that the way transsexualism is handled professionally and personally is probably not the best.

I can't believe your sister's fear of jeans and the havoc this has created for your family. It's not addressed in a healthy way- not too much has changed since back then. We go along with the biology argument but there is a lot mental and that help should have come to the ts parents long before psychologically messing with the kids. I can't help but think of how much of this could have been avoided.

I know we talk about wanting to understand- as kids and now as adults, but I'm not sure there is anything we can know that would help us to understand. I'm thinking right now if my dad gave me his best explanation, I wouldn't be satisfied or any closer to understanding.

There is another thing I think we all have/had in common among each other as kids of ts parent. The extreme effort we take to make things look perfect and OK. All we ever wanted to be was OK. I remember when I first learned about my dad's cross dressing not being the norm, I was a kid, and I often wondered what it would have been like to have a normal family/parent. Am I different because of all this- better or worse?


Dr. Calder 5 years ago

While reading this blog I started to despair. So much hurt out there... And as if there was actually something called normal or normality! I find no solice in the level of ignorance. Though I am not a transsexual I recognize that transsexuals do not have a choice... The children have no choice either... Yet both do have to chose to overcome the problems GID posses (or not) for both parties. I am a doctor and my partner is a transwoman.(Tina) I have seen the scientific evidence to back up the GID condition. My main concern is the possibility of the children carrying the genetic alle. Still How can I say in anyway defective? I love my partner and she just happens to have had a hard time and not from a deliberate act has she made a choice; no it is that she is who she is. To think that a parent has in some way deserted their child is a falsehood. There are many types of people and all add to the mix of what humans and animals can be. WE think we can reason away problems, which is a dream, perhaps attained; usually not. We are ALL subject to our own demons from the ID. It is our drives’ that ultimately win out in the way we want in our own little universe. Though I also see things from the offspring's point of view. [see William James and pragmatic approach] It has to be said there are no winners in this tragic condition.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Dr. Calder~ As a kid we determine normal as what we see our friends houses to be like or other people in our very limited version of the world. So it hurts us to think we weren't normal and neither was our ts parent. Now, like you said normal doesn't really mean anything- what is normal? Not until we reach later adulthood do we have a different view on teh world and realize and reason that there is no such thing as normal. But the damage is done as kids.

You said, "We are ALL subject to our own demons from the ID. It is our drives’ that ultimately win out in the way we want in our own little universe." Most people have developed an ego and super ego that can reason and override the ID's wants. I have wanted a lot of things, but right now I have given up certain aspects of my life to raise a toddler. I don't go selfishly chasing after my needs and wants. When you become a parent, those are second-place for a while.

Like I said, if it's biological then why do these people get married? Have families? Entertain the idea of being someone they're not? Why hurt others involving them in your (the ts's) fantasy world? My dad was an adult and capable of kowing there was no normal to the world so why pressure my as a kid to accept his ts ways as normal? Living a lie to protect themselves.


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, Tina: This is where I am today. I saw a video on Youtube, search you tube for: Dad - Celestial Navigation. Watch video and come back to me……Seeing that video brought my daddy alive back to me. Everyone has different Dad’s, but this video made my old Daddy come back to me, where I lived and was rooted in the Universe when the Big Bang happened. Then today, I watched it again, and clicked on another ‘suggested video’ that came up, also having ‘Celestial Navigation’ in its link title. But this video was an actual Celestial Navigation instruction, but I was immediately drawn in because the man teaching the was in khaki’s, and his voice, were like my dad. A natural teacher, who learned from another natural teacher, in the way sailor’s pass on knowledge and skill to those ‘coming up.’ There is an inherent understanding that its all scary and paralyzing, because we were all in the same boat at one time. So its calm, cool, gentle, like my dad, too. So I watched the whole video and additional one’s by the same man and learned things about navigation, and chart reading, etc.

Stay with me here, because I’m going to get back to the topic of this hub page, and how I felt, and these video’s helped me find a way to express it. So Dad gently showed me, how to navigate my surroundings as I grew up, always at my side. I grew in confidence, and at age 5 and 6, I actually got into situations that scared the bejesus out of the adults, and I didn’t understand all the fuss, after all I knew where I was, how I got there, and how to get home. What I didn’t know was that I had been gone for hours, missed meals, and no one could find me. A five or six year old with there best friend is only looking for adventure. ……. I’ll let you fill in the blanks of what its like to lose your child and then find them and still want to spank them so they’ll never do it again, but you can’t really do it because you are cring because you are so grateful you found them alive.

So, I see on the navigation video how you have to send a distress signal, giving the GPS coordinates, or the bearing from you to the vessel you are sending the distress signal to. And I’m thinking that when my vessel blew up, my body signaled distress, but dad could no longer read me. My frozen shocked demeanor signaled ‘unsupported, lack of trust, etc. Previously I would have followed my Dad anywhere, like a duckling. And rightly so. Now, this person did not have the voice, or attitude I had known, he was a stranger, but not a stranger. And there was static in the lines of communication. I listened hard, but I couldn’t find something to follow. My dad could no longer respond to my distress, and my distress had no words, like an untethered object lost in space.

And then I thought, watching the videos, it was if my dad had gotten lost after my mother died, he was truly ‘at sea.’ And the only way he could figure out how to survive was to become a mermaid. And he talked and gestured as he thought a mermaid would. And as the signaling and response kept failing, and my mother didn’t come back, and his children were motherless, that he kept trying to find a way to embody being a mermaid, and fashioned himself a new lower half, and added long tresses, throwing away all the khaki covered mariner’s gear, because all of his life before had betrayed him. And he was at sea for years, not understanding where his distress came from, and getting the wrong ‘understanding’ from Johns Hopkins. But he took that as ‘understanding’ and followed it where it took him.

Then 15 years later, I came to understand that anyone can break under stress, and my father had indeed ‘cracked.’ And I and my siblings tried to reach out to him, but he was like a feral cat, or more like a once loved pet dog whose owner had died and went looking for her in the wrong places, but kept searching and searching and got lost. His friends and peers who used to trust and follow him, couldn’t reach him. And John Money told us that he had more courage, and smarts to become his true self. And John Money was the ‘voice of authority’ who described the path to victorious, ‘real self’ recovery, and my father trusted and followed that path to loss of self, becoming unrecoverable to those who knew who he used to be and kept reaching, never wanting him to be alone and isolated, too young to understand that isolation, because were moving into an isolated existence ourselves, having no mother or father who could reflect back to us that they knew us. We became unreflected and unreflecting, lost to ourselves. Attempts at therapy frustrating because the therapist’s had an agenda, too. They could only think that we had to become more and more supportive, and we couldn’t float in the therapist’s view, could not find air, or safe harbor, and became unemotional, and fearless because of that lack of emotion. We no longer felt fear because we no longer felt emotions, we gave up calling for help, thanks to the ‘family counselor’s, who misrecognized absolute silence for understanding, and felt they had succeeded. And they had succeeded in garroting us, sneaking up on us in the guise of understanding and help.

So, getting back, that video on you tube, Dad - Celestial Navigation, just gave me a way to remember how it used to be, how dad used to be. And nothing can help until the child grows up, and even then, with all the trying to toss a life line to my dad, to bring him back to a point of understanding where the short occurred in the lines of communication….Well, he just couldn’t hear anymore, he became more and more ‘speaking the partyline’ so to speak, which is a shout down on the children, the voice of the almighty God, John Money, an unimpeachable authority, and its all you find out there.

But, Izetti, Tina sounds like she is searching for the short in the lines and is still open to getting a window on our inner lives and going to find a safe place for a changing Tina to find her sons, knowing all she can do is observe from a distance, understand that they are lost as well, and have no reason to trust that the ‘voice of authority’ from the past, the time of their own dissolution, will be any different, show any reflection, be able to mirror who they used to be back to them, to reflect and give light, to lift up, to find a moment of respite. No, they are in the time when no ‘voice of authority’ will ever make them feel frozen and powerless again, and that is the way Mother Nature designed them and holds them somewhat safe until a higher understanding comes to either side of the equation, knowing, that no one is guaranteed safe passage in life, and many people do drown.

So this is why they have all those wonderful ‘sailing’ sayings, May the wind be at your back, Bon Voyage, and one I never understood from my Dad, but now I do, “Always fart to windward.” Oh, how the mighty winds blow when one sales the internet seas.


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, Tina, Calder; When I last posted a comment, I wasn’t aware of the last couple of posts, so it had no dialogue with the last two comments. Neither was it a fantasy I have been carrying around, rather it was informed by my recognizing what my dad used to be like, what was no longer there.

Now I see a comment from Tina’s partner, and think, rightly I suspect, that Tina is in pain from reading our experiences, and Calder read what is affecting Tina, and reached out. All understandable, and not to be disparaged in anyway. And I think Calder will understand why I quite naturally do not know whether she is a Ph.D., a LCSW, an M.D., or any combination thereof. And even if an M.D., what specialty. No, she is here as a caring partner, outside her comfort zone. There is no comfort for anyone on this topic. It can only be hoped that what we say here is not harmful to those younger than we adults, who don’t have the emotional resources to maintain themselves whole, or no worse off, from having read these pages. As adults, and parents (maybe) we have to be able to take it in the gut from every utterance of pain from our children. Far better to approach a wreck and hear the child crying out in pain, than to hear nothing at all. It is hearing nothing, that is the problem here. And just because Izetti and I have broken the sound barrier, we do so very carefully, as carefully as we know how. And I have spoken with others in this situation, from several different families, and it was with fear and trembling that we came together, me never responding to anything but what they asked, what they felt safe putting into words. And I am also the oldest of a large Irish Catholic family, so add over a half-dozen to that. That does not make me an expert in anything, but knowing the struggle to find words for how one is feeling, to even speak to oneself.

So, this is not a battle of credentials or authority. So unless Calder is a genetic counselor, and united in the responsibility to ‘do no harm,’ she should forgo the title on this page. Children and anyone outside their area of expertise can only rely on the operating principles of someone qualitied to give genetic counseling. That is not me, neither is it Calder. What she states is a belief, something she takes refuge behind. But with her title before her name a child would mistakenly be reinnoculated with the paralyzing fear of their own body and mind and shut down further. Even though a transsexual might feel he or she has suffered with such self doubt, I don’t think they would ever in their right minds want to infect their children with this doubt. I am sure Tina would agree.

So I respectfully request of Tina to give Izetti permission if she needs it to remove that one sentence from Calder’s otherwise ‘harmless’ and understandable posting. I don’t know how editable these postings are. So I tread lightly here, hoping to rely on everyone’s code of ethics. We do not want to teach children to discriminate against themselves, something they do naturally, taking responsibility for all that goes on around them. No, we want only to recognize their fear, and gently lift their chins to let them see that you see them, and can look them in the face, and help them to speak, to not roll up in shame, that floods the body and paralyzes the soul, that damages the amygdala and hippocampus, thereby damage\ing their ability to navigate in this cruel world.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thanks Judith. Will check it out.


Teen in Virginia 5 years ago

I have a psycho Mom, and and a Tranny dad. My dad never psh his tranniness on us, she is very caring and fun and sucesfull. I would not trade her for anything. I am 16 and all my class mates and firednds have mess up paents,m divorce, religious nuts, durgs, alchol, neglet, etc. My da ids my dad, loving, protrctor, caring with or without a V. U guys ned to grow up and go on with ur lves ad stop blaming yor trany das for yoru nurosis and psychosis


judith 5 years ago

To 'Teen in Virgiinia" good morning. Of course you would never give up your dad. Neither have we. We merely speak of our interior feelings after years of silence, speak of how 'on guard' we were to protect our father. My father, too, was very caring and fun, more so before the surgery than after. We are merely speaking of a tragedy in our father's lives in which we shared. We would never want you to feel attacked because we share our feelings and experience, but I understand where you stand, and how you feel, and honor it.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

TEEN IN VIRGINIA~ Your dad and my dad are different therefore our experiences were different. Doesn't mean any of us are wrong. Feelings are never false or wrong- they are what people feel. My mom and I had economilcal hardships including living in a car for a short time and my dad was off spending all his cash, he was a lawyer, on designer outfits, make-up, etc. Nothing but the best for him so do I have some things to blame on him- sure, I just gave you one example. You stated your dad was loving and never pushed his tranniness on you- my dad was neither of those things so we obviously can't compare notes.


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, I am so exhausted, I shouldn't even be here. Wanted to ask you if my comment to the Dr. was OK with you? And I posted a comment to Teen in Virginia, I don't know what the protocol is on these things, and a couple of moments ago Char M had a very interesting comment from Chrysti. Naturally, what I said to Teen in Virginia is how I really feel, because I would have defended my dad, too. OK, see you later


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I try to keep open communication here. The reason it can be an issue is because many people, on either side, are emotional about it. That being said, emotions are not right or wrong, but it can intensify what we say I'm sure. I think the biggest thing we all wish for was a protocol on how to deal with it from either side.


Chris H 5 years ago

First, let me say that I am very sorry to hear about so many people's pain. It is sad to hear of the trauma that GID causes so many children and parents. Seems like, as someone already posted, nobody wins around someone with that condition. I guess it is little wonder that so many people question if death is worse.

I come from a family with many problems. Two of my cousins killed themselves at young ages (the most recent just a few years ago), my uncle was manic drepressive and had to take medication his whole life, and several other family members have/had mental illness. But I never really thought much about it until my father killed himself almost seven years ago to the day and I was totally devastated. We were very, very close and always had been. For the first three years after my life was a haze of depression, confusion, and almost unbearable pychological pain. I felt abandoned and betrayed and I blamed him for all of my problems, and myself for his suicide even though no blame was really warranted. I spent years of my life after living under a dark cloud until I went into therapy. It sounds like you find your father revolting after his transition but I think you're lucky you still have one, even if he is now a trans woman.

It seems like all children blame their parents for being screwed-up nomatter how innocent or guilty they are. Maybe your father was selfish, mine was (and many other things I won't mention). But I loved so much anyway and miss every minute we ever spent together. If he was still alive as a man or woman or whatever, I know I would still love him. I think there is something about having a loving parent that is deeper than their gender and psychological dispositions. I wish we could all blame less and now that I have kids of my own I realize how lucky I am to have had my parents. If you're lucky one day you will have children too and nomatter what you do they're sure to blame you for being screwed up too - nomatter what you do.

So that's my two cent's worth. But then again, what do I know, I'm not a normal person because I have a history of mental illness in my family - unlike you?


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

ChrisH~ I think we all come to a point in adulthood where we realize what is right and wrong and it is easy to be angry at things that we look back on and say our parents wronged us. I think most grievances people have against their parents are not worth it, but I know that my dad dressing up in front of me was wrong and I was helpless as a child and feel that I was taken advantage of because of being young and not knowing what was right other than my father's definition.

My dad is also very narcissistic and I had contact with him until a year ago I visited him and he started playing mind games against my daughter. Saying she needed psychological help because she had temper tantrums (she was 2) and now she is 3 with no tantrums at all. He used to come to these crazy conclusions with me too and I know what you are saying about mental illlness, accepting, and forgiving, BUT people who put up with and subject themselves to mentally ill people, may start to pick up those same tendencies. Mental illness is part environmental too. I think there needs to be boundaries. Many individuals who are transgendered suffer from a mental illness so I guess we aren't just talking about a man who becomes a woman, but all the mental games as well.

I look back and could say my mom did a lot of not-so-great things, BUT I know she tried her best. I would hope my children recognize that too because I am trying my best. My dad, I don't believe he tried his best. It was more comfortable for him to flash his wigs and clothes in front of me than to try and keep that to himself. He did not try his best. Do I blame him for any of my life's issues in general? No. I blame him for exactly what our relationship is and anything between us.

I respect your comment and I think you have sound advice for people in general about issues with their parents. THank you.


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libby101a 5 years ago from KY

Wonderfully written hub! I understand the depth of the emotions you must have felt and are still feeling. It would be a shock to say the least. I'm glad you have a family of your own now!

God bless.


sophia 1 5 years ago

my dad is a transsexual, you kept refereeing to her as a transvestite but i don't think even now you get that it wasn't for you it was for her, i had to live in high school with this. all you people who think that the person is being selfish needs to take a look in the mirror and decide who is being selfish. they don't do this for those around them they do it for them self's. i was 10 when this happened to me and i still accept it and i did then. all i can say is GET A GRIP its not about you ! all of you people who think its all about you, think of your parent who had to change their whole life that they built around them self's. i think that your all need to grow up. i am 19 and i think this, what will other people think. all i can say is look in the mirror and stop being selfish.


Judith 5 years ago

Hi, Izetti, I have been taking a break, but checked in Friday night. On the TV was David Letterman interviewing Cher, whose daughter Chastity had a sex change. What was so funny was watching Letterman struggle with the pronouns. And, I was going to go on your hub and talk about pronouns, too! But I was too exhausted.

What I was going to say was how important it is on the subject of this Hub to get the pronouns, the attribution, correct. I have reread some of the comments I made here and on Charm M and __ (I can’t think right now), and realized that what I wrote was confusing. Punctuation and attribution are absolutely critical in writing on this subject. So I have learned to go to an untitled document and use spell check and even save until I can edit it later. I can’t even understand myself if I don’t. I am so new to this whole computer thing.

I did write a response to Chris H., but held it back, as I was unsure of his attribution, and my response to it. I haven’t been back to check what I wrote out yet. I am sure I will eventually share it.

But I am exhausted. I reread your original posting, and each time I do I find something out I didn’t get the first reading. And I think when I read responses to others, the younger ones, who comment, that they, too, have not been able to process your content because their own mind is reacting with fear, horror, indignity, etc. This can’t be avoided. I notice you are more aware of this than I was, and give leeway, yet still move in. It is very upsetting to them. I think of the way I was, and I totally understand their response, that you have attacked their parent, and they bravely step out front. It is very understandable. There has got to be a lot of approach/avoidance in all of this. Even now, I could let my mind go deeper into this, but I instinctively know there are special concerns when responding to youths, and I never want to say anything that sends them reeling in anger or fear or doubt. I never want them to be less, they are so strong. They are backed into a corner, and I am proud of them for whatever they say, in whatever frame of mind.

After all, I have not referred my own siblings to your blog. We don’t talk about this to one another. Have never been able to. Not in any reflective way. Yes, being the eldest, they have run up to me and barked at me their fears, one liner’s from their terror of themselves. And on two separate occasions, reacting to articles in the paper about children of transsexuals involved in legal problems, they have thrown the article at me and screamed at me to “go help those children“, and then run off to be with their own children. They always expect that I’ll be able to go out there and help the other’s, like us. I don’t want to get into that now. That would take a lot more reflection than I can bring to bear right now. I need to get myself physically together. Maybe I’ll be back later if I get other things accomplished.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Judith~ the part I do attack, irregardless of age is anyone who believes I am posting this from somewhere bad in my heart. I am extremely frank about this topic and I find "accepting" it is all to often confused with ignoring it and hoping it goes away or self-sacrificing oneself to put the transsexual at ease.

Other comments I don't appreciate such as Sophia's above, are ones who state everybody should accept and think one way. I "accept" her comment because her feelings and thoughts are very real and represent many others too. BUT my thoughts also represent some people too so neither of us should apologize for the way we think and deal with this. Some of the most hurthful aspects of my dad's change wasn't until later in adulthood, as I mentioned- not being at my wedding for HIS fear of what people would say or having to exaplin all this to my children. I had no idea what to tell my daughter to call hi/her/grandpa/grandma. I still refer to my dad as a "he"- habit I guess and is always awkward around him. I almost wished he had told me what to call him so I wouldn't have felt awkward to ask or make up other words. Sophia is young and you might agree, the way we deal is always changing. Relatives ask about my dad as if he died. It leaves me in such a spot because along with his change he broke all his family relationships.Bottom line, there's just no manual for this kind of thing.

I will be working on a newer posting of this. I have more fans on this site that I did years ago when I published this so it will be intersting to see what thye have to say.


Judith 5 years ago

I totally agree with you. It is just that I so totally understand a real child of a transsexual reacting the way Sophia did. I am grateful you opened up because I could find no way to do it, I was locked in fear, not knowing how to use the computer, a whole tangled mess. This blogged opened me up after having been totally shut down for ten years. You threw me a rope. I still can't handle doing a blog myself. I can't open up that way, not with my siblings, and them protecting their own children from knowledge of this. We don't want them infected with this, the fear and paralysis it engenders, the self-doubt. None of my sibling consulted on this with each other. None. On their own, they have kept all knowledge of what we have been thru from their children. It is the lie that keeps on giving. I have thoughts on this that I can't share myself yet. Need to find a way where I can edit things so they don't see how I see them, because they do dissociate. I fear for them identifying themselves described here. I found my own father described in an article published. That is one thing, but I went looking for it. I don't want any of my siblings to go disfunctional in their lives, start reeling from this, until this is played out. They would never look it up on their computers because their children know more about the 'history' etc., then them, and they wouldn't know how to look safely. Believe me, I know. That has been part of my paralysis, even though I have had the computer for 3 and a half months now. When I am tired, the whole post traumatic stress syndrom takes over. I have been thinking of that all day, about writing up my insights on that. Then I checked out the only other blog I follow today, and she had posted a link to a video that really did rock my world. It was on you tube as one of the Jubilee Project videos, the one with two oriental young adults on a park bench, and how they got to know one another. The special part is it reminded me of the play, "Children of a Lesser God", because I identified with it when I first saw it when it first came out, about not being able to talk and express myself. Then one of my sisters called me years later after she had seen it on TV, the movie. It made her talk. It was the first time she talked, I think: She said, "That was me up there. That was me." I knew whereof she spoke. But it is time for me to go back and look at it again, with my eyes and ears open a little more, all because I watched that Jubilee Project Video.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I haven't seen that movie. I know I was blunt with Sophia, but my approach is to make people uncomfortable enough to think about things more thoroughly and thoughtfully. I believe she is very defensive on her parent's behalf, but I wanted to shake her up a bit to realize this will personally effect her inevitably and there will be selfish thoughts about her own life and how it was effected. She incorrectly stated that we thought our parent did this for us- if I understand her right. Then she was confused about how I referred to my dad as a transvestite which he was before becoming a transsexual. Obviously she was upset when writing her comment, and I feel for her. As the years go by, she will feel the stings. Like I said, I missed my dad at my wedding and how to explain things to my daughter is difficult. Each experience is different. I can understand your siblings protecting their kids. My mom tried doing that by going along with living a lie.I will disclose to daughter as age appropriate because I hate lies.


Judith 5 years ago

ChrisH- Are you implying because Izetti and I report what the conditions were like in the trenches, report how our species of innocence responded under the conditions of stress, and speak from our knowledge as adults and parents, with insight into what we felt, and embodied in our nervous systems, and yet found a way to report it, that we are therefore mentally ill? Sounds a lot like the family therapy I and my siblings were given. “Do you want your Daddy to die, or commit suicide” In other words, do you want to be a daddy killer? In other words, “Are you crazy? Surely, you didn’t mean to imply the standard therapeutic position of family therapy for children of transsexuals…. or did you? It usually takes 15 years of total adherence to these percepts before we “Crack Open”. It’s ugly. It just isn’t done., is it? … Unless we are mentally ill? I refer you to the story of David Reimer, as told in the book by John Colapinto, “As Nature Made Him”, and the documentaries made about David’s life, all available on line. The psychiatrists and psychologista who treated David over the years knew that what John Money reported was wrong, but were afraid to go up against the Prima Donna. Everyone had drunk the kool-aid.

Would you suggest that we just shut up and not worry about all the other kids, and the other fathers and mothers who might just think a little more carefully, before they commit a living suicide, and become “ who they were really meant to be “. That is the party line, isn’t it.? Couldn’t speaking out be from insight on our part? Could we not be coming in from the wilderness and come back alive to report the conditions out there? Would you even suspect that some of us didn’t make it? Would you really want to know? Do you really think they keep any statistics on what happens to us, as in cause and effect?

Why bother to address PTSD in our soldiers? Why bother to be concerned with child abuse? Stress? Silence is golden, is it? Mute children, equals wonderful children, supportive children? Well, I can report that we certainly were supportive, we loved our Daddy, and we did not want him to die, and we saluted and walked frozenly beside him. Frozen, that’s good, is it? Easily manipulated by others? That’s good, too? No, as an adult, when I see a child frozen, I don’t wait for that child to find words before

I pick it up and make it feel visible. I know it is inconvenient to those who prefer not to know what they do. None of what we say could possibly be the truth? Real feelings? You are not going to get away with suggesting mental illness as the cause for us speaking in hopes of forestalling the pain of others. As parents, we have to take all of our children’s pain and suffering in the gut. For us to re-member ourselves, is to put ourselves back together, with insight into our own and our siblings pain and suffering, we have to speak our truth, and to try to find a way to be therapeutic to one another, to make each other feel visible. Even if we are invisible to the credentialed therapeutic community, who as fallible human beings, would find denial and dissociation an option for their human psyches.

Yes, kids love their parents no matter what. And people crack under stress. Children crack by going silent, by not being witnessed and responded to, by not finding safely, by becoming invisible, by being supportive. By not being reflected back to themselves, but rather finding they must become the mirror to their “new Mommy‘s or New Daddy‘s“. That is biologically designed in. That is what children who are made to feel afraid of their natural selves do, self-sacrifice. Not pretty picture. Is it?

Why, just tonight on PBS was a show about how 6 sailors were made to confess to a crime they didn’t commit, thru stress, isolation, exhaustion, fear, and let’s not forget, “slow escalation to commitment.” No one could believe that these sailors who had confessed could be innocent. This was PBS’s Frontline, “The Confessions”, Nov. 9, 2010.

No, we don’t withdraw our support for our parent; we withdraw from the Emperor with No Clothes. But we will always be prosecuted by the therapeutic and pseudo-therapeutic community for speaking out, for finding words. Mentally ill, are we? That’s an awfully convenient label, isn’t it?

This is in no way an attack on the real pain and suffering you have experienced and expressed. I am sure your insight helps you to respond to others in similar distress. You may have inadvertently made the imputation that describing where we have been and what we have seen might be a form of mental illness. If not, I apologize. But it is a contagious position from those who haven’t thought deeply. I know for a fact that “If you believe a lie, you won’t believe the truth.”


Judith 5 years ago

I am going to try to copy a link or something for you to copy to a link here. I may get it wrong. Just got this thru looking at Google Reader Suggestions, and voila:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n22t0n2427qh56...

That is a new book, the abstract looks very interesting. Also, there is maybe a way to read the book thru Springer Open and I am going to try to figure it out, but here is the link, or html for that:

https://s100.copyright.com/AppDispatchServlet

I am off to chase the possibilities of this. Check in later. I hope it works out.


Sweetsusieg profile image

Sweetsusieg 5 years ago from Michigan

How painful for you, I am so sorry to hear that. Nothing quite like being blindsided is there? I have some issues that I am dealing with myself and am not sure where to do about them. Not regarding me, but someone very close to me and issues they have to deal with.

I have lived with a Narcissist for 25 1/2 years now and each day it seems to get worse, even once they realize they have this disorder.

I wish you the best in dealing with this, for your own peace of mind. When you find you answers perhaps you could share them, to help the rest of us see the light.

Thank you for sharing.


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 5 years ago from Tucson, Az.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so I'll do a little of both. I'll cry for you and laugh at him. I don't know how I missed reading this. It's an incredible story Laura. I think he's one selfish A Hole. Sorry, I know he/she/it's your father? Now I'm confused. Anyway Laura, all men have unhealthy urges when it comes to sex. Usually it has to do with being with another woman or something. But in my mind, a man has to put family in front of his urges. It's all part of being a man .... which I guess he isn't. So that falls a part. I dunno, this is really confusing.

You know the deal with my father. All that and I'm not so sure if you didn't have it worse. Anyway, you are one tough little cookie my friend. In the end, I only have one question. Do I have better legs than him?

jim


Judith 5 years ago

Izetti, I heard this program on anxiety on the radio today. It was recorded today and is the latest on research on effects of anxiety in adults and children.

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-11-18/anxie...

It is a one hour show, and great. I'll get back with you later, had a police action situation in the neigjborhood, and I spent the day with the children. I am whipped. Listen to that program.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Thanks man with no pants and susie g!

Most of the time this doesn't cross my mind. The sex change itself doesn't effect me as much as the demise of our relationship and all the lies, etc

Judith I will get back to you when I have a chance to check out the links- thanks.


Judith 5 years ago

Yes, I am celebrating Thanksgiving, and one of the things I am thankful for is being well enough to do some rearranging, and finding an article I printed of the computer at the library 7/19/2007. I am going to try to copy the link, but first I am going to type it so this doesn't get lost. It is titled: Hurt Feelings & Censorship, analysis / Trans activists protest youth video, by Rachel Giese / Xtra July 11, 2002. So this is the typed link: http://archives.xtra.ca/Story.aspx?s=14621151

It is about a Youth Digital Video Project for gay and trans family members, I guess. Anyway, one girl, Jo-Anna Davidson is a straight child of a transsexual father. She did a film about her experience that was considered a "lightning rod for controversy. Inside out received a torrent of angry letters and calls objecting to the video's "transphobia" and "hate propaganda." when it was to be aired at the Toronto Lesbian and Gay Film and Video Festival. I think her film was called "Dent on the Wall" But the story by Rachel Giese ends as follows: "Ultimately, this does boil down to the issue of freedom of expression, which we communities must protect - even when it's complicated or painful. If we follow of 'if it offends someone, it must be stopped,' then gay men, lesbians and trans people would never be allowed to say or create anything at all. Our lives our ci..our art offend too many people _ including some withing our own commuity. " "None of us can, as individuals, handpick the gatekeepers of free expression. We demand our right to say what we want, and then turn around and tell others to...when we don't like what they have to say. The price we pay to freely express our...that sometimes we will be hurt, or angered or insulted by someone elses expression."

Sorry, I am referring to a copy, and the right hand margin is cut off because I didn't know how to reduce it to get it on the page.

Anyway, I think we call all be joyful that I found the copy, and here goes me trying to copy the link: http://archives.xtra.ca/Story.aspx?s=14621151


kathryn jameson 5 years ago

this post was a real eye opener for me and i send it to my daughter to read. you see, i am in your father's shoes. i didn't ask for this and for the longest time i fought with everything i had until ultimately it was either come out with it or put a gun in my mouth. my daughter has had some feelings the same way you did. she asked me where she should put the grave marker as her dad was truly dead. we didn't talk for months after that. in march of this year, i finally did a name change even though i dont live full time. and once again, after telling my daughter, we didn't talk for months after that. i love my daughter and she was a daddy's girl. i cried every time she cried as i hurt so much for her. however, you have to understand how your father (rachael) felt with going through what she has had to go through. it wasn't until i was over 40 that i truly began to understand what was wrong with me and truly wanted to use a gun on myself. which was worse, kill myself or finally accepting what i was and praying that my family would accept me as well. i have lost friends and family because of this but kept the love of my mother and father. what we feel inside doesn't change. only that we strive to make the outside fit the inside. do i still love my daughter and grandaughter???? very much so. do i still love my parents, very much so. i have come to realize that there is nothing wrong with me even though i wish that it had not come about in my life. so i do hope that you will try and understand how rachael feels. we are not being selfish with trying to be happy with our lives. but we do want to include those we love in our rebirth. your story touched my heart and i thank you so very much for writing it. just be sure to love rachael for who she is, not what you want her to be. my mom had told me one time that some changes that i had gone through had made me a better person. he is gone now, and of course my "old school" dad doesn't really want to deal with it but i know he still loves me. just love rachael and i know in my heart she still loves you.


Mic 5 years ago

Hi, i am a 33 year old transsexual, i have a 10 months daughter and a beautiful wife, I am going to start hormones treatment on January, so far i have my wife's support, I have been as open as i can with my wife and some family. As much as i want to be a woman i do not want to leave my wife or for my daughter to hate me. I have been thinking since my daughter is so young she will always remember me as a woman and she should not have any problem with it.

Izettl, on your experience do you think there is something different your father could have done so you do not feel like that about him? Again, based on your experience, do you think is a good idea for a transsexual to go tru transactions when her kids are younger so the will always rememnber her as a woman?

I am sure that if i have to stop my treatment either because of my wife or my daughter I would do it, I would not be able to leave with myself knowing that i hurt any of them.

Thanks for your answers.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Mic~ Thanks so much for your comment because I personally think you are doing the best thing by going through this now. You are so lucky to have the support of your wife, but I have a feeling things will be OK for you since you have been honest and you are doing this together with your wife.

The one thing I would change about my dad is telling me before hand. Never knowing he wanted to be a woman until hearing about it after he went through the operations and hormones was hurtful. That's what made me feel like I didn't know him at all. First I had to get to know a different person- my dad as a woman- then I had to realize my dad had always wanted to be a woman before he even married my mom. I never knew this so maybe I never knew him. He had 23 years to tell me. That's exactly what I would have changed.

Like I said, the open honesty you are creating now in your relationships with your daughter and wife are setting the right path for having good relationships. You may want to think about if you will tell your daughter someday that you were a man. As a child of a transsexual, kids always know or find out things so you just might want to think about when that conversation would be appropriate if you decide to.

Thanks for a sincere comment and I truly wish the best to you and your family.


Nicole1963 profile image

Nicole1963 5 years ago from Silverdale, WA

I found this hub to be a very sad recollection that has been filled with and continues to cause the individuals involved pain. It was wrong for your father to hold back the truth from you once you had reached an age where you were capable of understanding all the intricacies involved in the process of transsexual transitioning. However, maybe you could possibly tell me when that age arrived for you and he should have come forward and explained. For many transsexuals it often takes many years and even then they do not understand every minute detail. However, they do understand that a problem exists that must be addressed.

From what I understood from your story you explained that your father did not transition until he had gotten divorced then retired which I would guess to mean that you were no longer a minor. Yet you seem to scream how unfair it was to you that he dared transition. Granted your father is and continues to be wrong with his attempts to manipulate you into acting as he wants. She must now accept the fact that she has transitioned and that many people including her daughter and her family may have problems dealing with her transitioning.

However, I must point out that to sit there and cry like some spoiled child because your father decided the time had arrived for him to quit pretend to be someone he was not is quite selfish on your own part. I could feel your anger and pain at his choice and at how you felt he was wrong in hiding this from you. But it seems that heavily weaved through the story is nothing more than woe is me and how dare he do something without my permission, understanding or support. You mention your children and family and how unfair it is that she does not live and exist as you deem correct regardless of the pain it would cause her.

Get off the high horse and stop only thinking about yourself you are an adult already and capable of providing for yourself. If you do not want to support him and accept his actions then simple don’t. If she attempts to manipulate you or your children speak straight and to the point by confronting her and making your feelings known about what she is doing. If she is offering ridiculous advice about your children and their mental help let her know that you are their mother and an adult and will do what you consider best for them and if she has a problem with it then tough. But no matter what you do one thing you really need to get over and understand is the ridiculous notion that somehow a transsexual that transitions needs forgiveness from anyone for the actions they take that lead to their transition.

If she acts like a self absorbed jerk, it is up to you forgive her if you want to. If she attempts to manipulate you and your family, then forgive her if you want to. But by no means sit there like some holier than thou judge and think that she should beg your forgiveness or even seek it because she finally decided that after you were an adult to focus on herself and what it would take to make her happy.

It does not matter if you do not want to subscribe to the belief put forth by ever increasing scientific understanding about being born the way they are. You are free to subscribe to whatever tales and beliefs you choose that is the beauty of freedom. However, you are an adult now maybe it is time to quit thinking it is all about you. In reality it had nothing to do with you. You never had nor now have any say so in how she chooses to live her life. All you can control is whether you want to allow her to actively interact with you and your immediate family.

@ Themanwithnopants..... It would probably help if you understood what you were talking about before you attempted to comment on a subject. When considering transsexualism one is discussing gender identity and not sexual orientation or sexual proclivities. It has nothing to do with sexual acts at all and thus your reference to unhealthy male sexual urges is completely ridiculous.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Nicole1963~ I can see this conversation is not going to go very far. Because you complain I am judging, yet you are judging just based on your comment. THis is my feelings or meoir of these circumstances. Others who have to go through this will find this helpful. I am far over it and I explain this situation as when I went throug hit which was 13 years ago. The fact is you resonate with a transsexual's viewpoint but don't assume that's the only viewpoint. THere's also bound to be others like mine and there is no wrong or right. I complained about my dad hiding it for so long, I never complained about him being who he is. I didn't force him to be someone else or hide for all those years I grew up knowing him as my dad. He says he felt that way before hw was married and years before I was born so how did I force him to live a life that was not true to himself? In my opinion, it's a bait and switch. He is one person and then totally another suddenly. I was lied to my whole upbringing seeing as he knew who he was back then so that's simply OK in your eyes.

FYI, to tell someone to "get over it" is callous in any situation. I would say rude, but let's just say callous as a general term. People don't just "get over" things, they go through them. It's work in progress sometimes and if my dad had years to become who he truly was, then I can take years to get used to him being that person.

You really are judging and don't know who I am. I am not selfish at all. I want a little understanding from a parent- that's so much to ask for. The transsexual process is all about the transsexual- make them feel accepted in their own skin. THe fact is they are never comfortable in their own skin, no matter what gender it is. As an adult I can choose, but what about the kids that must live with a parent going through this. If you noticed some of the comments here were from younger people who felt abandoned and felt their parent was being selfish. That's true, because they should be parents first and follow through with that reponsibility. If a parent chooses to do this during which their kids are young ,then they are repsonsible for their child's adjusting to it.

Personally, gender identity disorder is a mental disorder and I find many of them have issues about being who they are in any skin. You are callous again in that you can say to me to simply take my dad or leave him- it's not that easy.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

nicole1963~ "For many transsexuals it often takes many years and even then they do not understand every minute detail." You say this of transsexuals so why can't it take many years for the children of them to understand as well?

You didnt address the spouses, like my mom who had to endure living a lie with someone for almost 20 years and to face the fact that others act like it was the spouse that changed the transsexual in to wanting to be one.

The story isn;t sad, is about lies and pretending.


Nicole1963 profile image

Nicole1963 5 years ago from Silverdale, WA

But it is that easy. You continue to say I am callous yet I am afraid you do not understand the term. I did not address any other individuals in the posts as I was not responding to their comments but rather I was responding to your insistence that your father should have consulted with you before transitioning. You continue with me just as you did through you whole article attempting to make it always and completely about you. He did not transition just so he could hurt you. As for the statement that you or your mother was the cause of it well first off I never even brought that topic up or even suggested such a foolish notion. Thus attempting to toss it into our discussion seems to be a very sad attempt to elicit sympathy for your position. Second if she ever did tell you that it was your and your mothers fault she is full of it and only fooling herself and you have every right to stand up and say so.

I am not being callous I am simply stating the truth and sometimes the truth does hurt but that does not change the fact it is still the truth. It is awful that you had to live through the situation however whether you believe it to be callous or not unfortunately awful things frequently happen to good people that is just the way it is. I feel that although you attempt to portray it to all be about dishonesty and pretending that is simply a red herring. Your father had no duty to explain his actions to you where did you ever get such a notion. It was unfortunate that your father entered into a marriage where the spouse was unaware of the situation and he was wrong for that. However, if things had played out differently you would not even be here to complain.

I will not waste time attempting to convince you otherwise and if you feel that continually calling me callous for speaking the truth helps you feel better than go for it. However, I do believe it is you who continues to fulfill that definition as you refuse to see that the whole situation is not about you. You went on got married and had a family I believe from what you said. So to sit there and complain that your father did not sit down with you when you were a very young child and explain his deepest most confusing feelings is simply an excuse for you to express your anger at the fact that he chose to follow the path he did.

Responding to your gender identify disorder comment I would ask just what your personal experience is with it other than your father just how many other cases are you intricately aware and involved in. Maybe you should cut back your declaration pertaining to sufferers never being comfortable in any skin as well as the insinuation that they have other problems as well. Certainly there may be individuals that fit your statement but I do not think you possess the creditability to make such a blanket statement regardless of your psychology classes.

And as for rude well to see the definition a mirror may come in handy it was you that felt the necessity to continually call me callous simply because I spoke the truth which you did not care to listen to. With that said I will bid you a polite goodbye and leave you to your anger and feelings of persecution as any further communication would not elicit one bit of constructive discussion from you.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti, I am trans and have a wife and children. I did not know what I had was gender related for years. As a child I simply thought everyone had a glitch and my parents made no big thing about it. I grew up a normal boy who liked fem things. I ended up in the arts so what I looked like didn't really matter. Some years ago I did start to have anger issues and did not know why. I finally went to enough therapy to find out that I am trans. After some years of going to group and seeing so much pain from men and women who have separated themselves from their families, I've realized the woman in me will never let the man's body I live in ever hurt my wife or my children. No matter what I want to do as living full time. There is no woman on earth that would let a man hurt her children and hat's what I live with each day. Now it is maddening and I hope to live my life without so much pain. That being said, the trans community is a wonderful bunch of people. The one thing I notice that's different is most MtF still think like men. Most are angry and don't understand why they have lost their rights or let me say they are surprised that the rights of women are less than men. These are intelligent people, not dumbies by a long shot. I know myself I am a from a long line of advisers to kings and great men from the past. Like your dads job for the gov't, is really what we are all called to be. we were advisers and even marriage counselors in centuries pasted. I think modern medicine has done a great disservice to my tribe. Making us choose between being a man or a woman. By choosing a binary system and changing sex, one in my position of emotional expertise is made null and void, no longer being able to see both sides, trading greatness for the ordinary of being one or the other. I am both and very blessed to be. The statement one has to answer is, "if one is truly a woman inside, what woman would not willing give up her life for her child". There are none, every woman on earth would gladly give their own life for their child to have life. I am so sorry you have had to face this in your own life. We were a great tribe and one day will be again. Do not judge your dad to harshly, if you had dwelled on something all your life and never addressed it, it would be hard to stop it, and that's what happens to most of us. If there is no outlet for the water to be released, finally the damn breaks and destroys everything in it's path. Then one must start to rebuilt. Please remember to forgive, for forgiveness is for oneself as well as for the one forgiven.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Nicole~ I call you callous because this is simply my personal story and feelings and you are trying to tell me it's wrong. You can't tell someone their feelings are wrong. You would just go through this situation differently than me perhaps- nobody is right or wrong.

I don't see where you have thought that I think my dad changed because of my mom or me or to hurt us, when I've clearly stated he had these feelings of being a woman far before he married my mom. I was stating that people don't understand and it is sometimes areaction like when a spouse turns out to be gay and other people might assume the other spouse might have made them that way driven them to it- pople can be naive when it comes to anything a little different- neither my mom or I felt it was because of us, not when he's always had these feelings. I guess my mom thought it was all a lie because he always had those feelings and his response was the technology for getting a sex change wasn't good in the 70's so he would wait and live a "normal" life- that was all about him being in control of how his and my mom;s life would be. He lived a lie and involved others in it. He could have told my mom and/or me about his thoughts of being a woman.

You can't possibly think this small hub I wrote is all to the story right? My dad cheated on my mom and other things. I think my dad is selfish for not coming to my college graduation (in which he said I could never do) and not my wedding either. If being a woman is supposed to make him more comfortable in his skin than why would he avoid those public things with me and friends,etc?

My dad could have explained things to me in high school at least. He did have a duty to explain because he was married and had a child- those are duties. I had a duty as a very young child to keep his cross dressing a secret- if I lived with that duty, then damn straight he had duties to me. You don't ask a young child to play games with you when you are wearing women's clothes and PRETEND and LIE that it's all normal to an impressionable little child, but don't tell anyone. I had to kep secrets from friends and family when I didn't want to. I grew up with a burden so he could live his lie and make it EASIER FOR HIM. He could have just told me, that's all I wanted, less of a shock. It's still the elephant in the room topic.

You go on about speaking the truth. THe truth is I feel this way and many others do too. "psychology classes" try psychology degrees. My mom and I both work with spouses of men who are transitioning, have transitioned, and/or are transvestites and my and my mom's feelings pale in comparison to these folks. When a spouse or parent does anything, it effects more than just themselves- it's naive and callous to think what we do never or shouldn't effect others we love or are close to us. I am not saying it's right or wrong for people to have difficulties with all of this, but the TRUTH and FACT is, they do. Whether you think they should, they DO. It's so "all about me" to want to help others.

And, BTW, you DID address another commenter on here who is a good friend of mine- "themanwithnopants". He knows more about the situation than you do.

And you have to admit, what I've written here is a lot better and G-rated than a lot of infor that comes up when you Google the topic.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I can tell you know a lot about all of this- WOW! You have explained my dad exactly in your whole comment. He is very smart and was trusted by many and most often still thinks like a man. I believe he didn't like having to choose between 2 sexes and being one or the other. I honestly wish he had told me all this himself.

Through your comment, I have actually understood more about my dad than anything he has ever said to me. "Do not judge your dad to harshly, if you had dwelled on something all your life and never addressed it, it would be hard to stop it, and that's what happens to most of us." Thank you for saying this because it does put things into perspective. I was hurt because my dad never wanted to talk about with me. I've always thought that if he loved me, he'd talk with me about it and share some of his thoughts about it. I don't think I need to forgive him for changing, but rather things in the past and how I felt like because of his issues, my mom and I had to pretend so his "secret" was safe.

Thanks you so much for your comment.


jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti... I do understand how you feel... but for all of us who do have it... we are already braced for the haters... our tribes was great many years ago... many of us never get a chance to express the feelings... I look at how this world views us now and weep... for to be two spirited is a gift from God... but most of us in this culture are taught as young boys that it is bad... we believe them later in life... just as you believed your parents... I have been the luckiest of all men... my folks were loving and very creative in their own lives... so I can't even imagine what it must be like for those who have fathers that are not proud of them... and mothers who help them hide... from their fathers... my wife and children all know... yet they are not asked to hide it... they do not run down the street telling others though...lol... hold him close to your heart and tell him how you feel... again if I had not had a wife that was so helpful in holding me to my promise of love... I don't know if I would have lived long enough to have this view... many of us, have no one to talk to... so when the few that we do love desert... bitterness sets in... there will be a day when my kind... take their place in history again... I used to laugh and say I am the new man... but the reality is... I am probably the new woman...make more money than my mate... take care of the most of the nurturing... love being loved so much that I gladly listen to her opinion... and do what she wants... I am both... and that's what we are really... we generally reflect where society is going... with the invent of sex change... it changed the rules of the game of life... so if you always wanted to be a woman or believed you were... you would do it... because there is so little education... it's only years after transition the we discover we are both... to late... to change again... we will regain our composure soon and your dad and others will be known as trail blazers... as reckless as is seems... in the great collective memory... there were his kind at the building of the pyramids but there were also... my kind to... along with architects, doctors, bankers, musicians, and other creatives... your dads kind always tease me and say... I have a slight case of the disorder but they know after a while they I am right also... so go tell him and her that you have more thoughts on the subject and you want to talk... the strangest part of the disorder is although he is a grown man... she is not... and that is tragic in it's self... remember how nasty middle school girls were... not one of you girls would choose to go through puberty again... correct... well even if it's been years since she transitioned.. the living it is so stilted and slow that it becomes maddening to the participant... in this case your father... so he is still the ugly girl in class... so if you can... and I don't have a clue how hard this is to do... you have to be the pretty girl that spends some time with her(your father). Hope you are healing... thanks for letting me share... we really are in the frontier... and you are the bravest... but hey life loves the brave... happy valentines... eat a lot of chocolate...lol


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ makes a lot of sense..." although he is a grown man... she is not... and that is tragic in it's self." I like your approach in explaining this because most are hateful- on both sides of this situation.

One thing I never understood was if my dad felt like a woman before his change then why does he still seem to want to hide even after the change? But some of what you explained above helped me to understand that.

I felt sad because it did tear my family apart- my parents divorced, my dad wouldn't see any of our relatives (even on his side) anymore and even when my grandpa almost died. But he would never let me tell anyone why he wouldn't see any of them so I had to live with either telling the "secret" or not telling so I could still have a relationship with my dad. So you probably understand my bitterness too. Now I understand my dad's bitterness- I know his dad was always trying to make him more of a man and pressured him. You were lucky to have the parents you did- it would have been easier to accept my new dad if I felt like he accepted him/herself. I have an OK relationship with my dad- it's more of a don't ask, don't tell. I'm nervous when my daughter gets older and how to explain because it's evident my dad looks like both sexes. I don't want to make it a big deal to her, and I want no shame or secrets.

Aside from all this, the statistics for babies being born with both sexes is pretty high, it's just that parents choose to do an early surgery to make them one sex or the other. Interesting.

Thanks again for your discussion here.


Izetti 5 years ago

Get her an aquarium and raise some sea horses...among other fish... explain that the male has such a over whelming desire to be a mother that God... allowed it... then you can take from there... even if it's years later... you can refer to it... I am so sorry he has not accepted himself... his guilt lies in his untruths to you mostly... your mom was a grown woman so he probably doesn't feel that way about her... he knows he did wrong... release him and you might still have a chance to save the relationship that you had... it's for sure he can't... there are so many pitfalls in transition as far as the family he will not have the strength to do it... I realize this is the last thing you want to hear... but you have walked this far... you might as well drink from the well... it's very interesting that you would say... he looks like both sexes... he is... and we are... and have been since the beginning of time... we are from the tribe of Joseph (the multi colored coat)... made you think huh...lol... think how painful to have a child who is disappointed in you... he faces you each day in his mind... don't wait till he is dying... the grand child is part of the key... but I will stop here and never give advice to a mother... the woman in me knows better than to try and take on the lioness of the pride... know that the child is part of your healing as well... I will pray you as you pray for me... God is in control... no matter how hay wire it appears... and he wants the best for you and your family... on another page... I read some of your writing.. very intriguing and very good... good for you... I like to write... in the beginning was the word... lol...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I love the seahorses idea! I have a children's book about that and read it to my daughter.

It's hard to view my dad as having emotions because he always thought it was a weakness and imperfection and he is such a perfectionist. He still expects myself and my daughter to be perfect. That is my frustration with him because since his change, the dynamics are different between us. I feel he can no longer tell me what is perfect anymore- I guess it would mean that I view his change as an imperfection within him. I think he should realize by now, and what he's been through, that life isn't perfect and neither is my daughter and I. Growing up he made me feel like I wasn't girly or feminine enough, and didn't dress that way, but i was always extremely comfortable in my own skin and now I knew he was the one uncomfortable all that time. A lot changed between us during the time of his change- I graduated college and when i talked to my dad, he was no longer always smarter than me in everything. Also I became a mother- both college and being a mother he said I would probably never do. In the case of both him and I, it feels like we never knew each other, really. So the relationship is slow. I now have Rheumatoid Arthritis and someday I may have even more imperfections. I feel if I accept him the way he is no matter what, then he should accept me. And right now that's still at a draw.

The physical part is still hard for me to deal with. I haven't given my dad a hug since the surgery because of his breast implants. Its still weird for me. I can't help it.

Thanks again for taking the time to read and comment.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Well let me step in and say I am very proud of you for the college thing and being a mom... if he doesn't say it I will... I have boys so it would have been an amazing thing just to have a girl... as far as him wanting life to be perfect... "having all the qualities of it's nature or kind"... is the definition in the dictionary... so he's up a creek there... I decided long ago... if I transitioned completely I would be neither man nor woman... for I have lived my entire life as a man... never being able to catch up so to speak... so no matter how hard I try to be a woman I could never be... at best a poor copy of what I think I am... yet if I was... I would be... does that make since... this body can be changed... but not the mind... now these hormones are amazing drugs... and they do help the anxiety of the dysforia... and I love the soft side they they offer to the brain... I can pretend... but still it's not real... love is real and can actually sooth the savage beast...lol..lol.. so many of us long for the the childhood we missed... the dresses, dolls, sitting in our dad's lap kissing his face all over... trying to grasp something we never had... it's really the romantic in us... never considering having a period, dealing with weight, hating boys then liking them, longing for curly hair, or straight, having fights with our moms, sex... thinking he loves us and should we give it up.. oh my... to many others to list... it wasn't the childhood we lived... the one we lived is the one we have... moments are not replaceable... instead of being the creatives we were meant to be... we fall down the rabbit hole and try and become Alice... but this is no wonderland... it is a mine field... at every turn ones appearance and confidence is questioned... this tribe of mine as brave, as smart as we are, walk directly into danger, most dragging our families with us... we've all been guilty of being a bimbo... the problem with transition is, if it comes later in life, when you have already achieved some things... it blind sides us... the men in us flush with anger when respect is lost... yet with anyone but our selves we would say... why does that guy thing he can achieve the impossible... alas we are not all Tom Edison... I'm not saying transition is impossible... I have friends that look so beautiful you would never doubt that they had faced all of lifes trials as a girl... but that's the challenge... they have not... so there are massive emotional landmarks missing... it's like buying a guitar and thinking you can play it because you bought it... you can't... you must practice... and I agree with some, there is argument for... I can't practice being a woman unless I am one...lol.. insane... one can never recover the past... and who wants to any way... today is a good day.. I am sure your dads reasoning was... if dressed in front of you... his practical male side assumed you understood that he was trans and that was his way of telling you he really wanted to transition... yet we both know that no woman would ever expect her child to know something like that... they would nurture the child and ask them do you understand or can you tell me how you see it... again a very male motivated thought process... so the start for a man to become a woman late in life is very poor... destined to set oneself up for failure... now that being said... just as some of your writers have said... we all still have the desire to change... and it's maddening to say the least... I am one of a very few who believe that we are a type of person... a third gender so to speak... and if that happens to be right... we are committing the worst sin against our selves by choosing one gender... I am non conformist... and that doesn't sit well with the community... they want me to choose... strange huh... we want rights for everyone except those who don't believe like we do... lol... sad really... it's the male part of us that embraces SRS... we get so tired of dealing with it... we are sure we can get more done if we could just stop obsessing about it... thanks again for letting me express an opinion...


Jeanine 5 years ago

I didn't address him not letting you be fem... most likely it was his own demons... if I can't be fem... neither can you... or trying to live his life through you... wanting you to be more fem... that is so hurtful... I think if transsexual women had to take care of babies for three years before transitioning... there would be fewer complete transitions...lol... we had three under three and it was a task... and I was at home each day all day while they were awake... gives one another respect for motherhood... raising children makes one come to grips with whats real and not... I get tickled when men say... after the child was born she didn't want to have as much sex... duh... dumb ass... don't get me wrong I love sex... but after children there are more important things in life... I guess you could say... I believe in a more realistic real life test than what is required today... Hope you are getting some meds for the Arthritis... very interesting about your education... when you are as smart as or smarter... then things change... one draw back to HRT is the brain changes and a lot of men appear to just not be as smart any more... I don't think it's a question of not as smart... just the mind is more interested in different things... and that's a danger we all face in the trans community... because we think differently... we become enamored with the thoughts of being feminine... never realizing it's still only in our minds... we all seem to lose the power of reasoning... we can look in the mirror and because the image is closer to what we wanted... we think everyone sees a woman... when clearly... most in late transition... look like a man in a dress to most of the world... I can hear the haters saying "I don't care what the world thinks and how they see me" how immature can we be... but if you have unlimited funds... knock yourself out... but... if one is going to live in this world... and expects to work in their field of expertise or even live retired and live fully in ones chosen gender... please take a more serious look at how to achieve a greater picture of success... mentally as well as physically... the very fact that your father would short change his emotional health by thinking of them as imperfections... sets off all the bells and whistles in my own heart... emotions are the main stay of the greatest woman I know... lol


Confuddled 5 years ago

hi there. my mom sent me this link because i am going through the exact same thing and i called my mom one day because i didnt know who else to tell. my dad is 56 yrs old and i knew since i was 15 now 25 that he was a cross dresser. all these years i thought it was a sick fantasy turn on that he did and that alone bothered me. about 2 weeks ago he called me and tried to explain the he was a woman trapped in a mans body, that he goes out wearing dresses and make up and jewlery and he so far got his vocal cords shrunk and started on hormones and that he had changed his name as well. then he hit me with the bombshell that he is going to be going to montreal for a sex change. I had to tell my brothers because my dad was affraid they wouldnt talk to him anymore and that was hard. So i grabbed a beer and so did they and we started talking. my oldest brother is fine and dandy about it and even called my dad to let him know that he was ok with it and he is there for him. my other brother looked traumatized and I have never been so confused im my life. i had to laugh when i read your story cause i felt the exact way...seeing things on maury and jerry laughing at them and now im the possision...i like my alcohol and i feel out of placed because i dont have the same last name as my parents. My soon to be husband doesnt want my kids around him to much because he doesnt want them growing up to think this is ok (im not happy with this at all). anyways he is coming over to calgary to visit us and we are going to have a family talk about it with just my brothers and my dad and i have no idea how to act or say or anything. I have no idea what to tell my 5 year old and i know need to be accepting and i kind of am but...wow its hard. i have sooo many feelings and emotions that...i just dont know what to do with myself. If there is amyone out there that i can talk to so i dont feel alone anymore that would be great. sorry this was a long comment lol

thanks


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

confuddled~ I still deal with this, trying to have a relationship with my dad. For me, and it's been 11 years since my dad's change (I was 25), and it's not the same. Everything I had with my dad before he changed is not the same and I'm not sure if I'll ever feel right around him even though knew he cross-dressed from a very early age. So many things are still awkward. Although, my dad didn't want to talk about it and your dad does so that's a plus.

Society pressures us (family and friends) to be accepting and supportive, especially of sensitive issues such as gender and sex. But when you are deeply involved in it, it's hard being suportive for yourself and supportive for dad when both are sometimes in conflict of each other. You are sad to see "old" dad go and he/she is now happy to be "new" dad. It comes down to grieving your "old" dad because many parts of him are gone. One thing I know is my dad still loves me and that is what the old and new him have in common.

As I described in my hub, when I first saw my dad I wanted to laugh and cry at once. You may feel like I did, and have to put your own emotions on hold to be supportive of your dad. It depends on how your dad handles the discussion and questions about it with you and your siblings. My dad was always very sensitive to any comments so I put it all on hold and we've never talked about it.Like I said, so many years later and there is still much awkwardness.

I assume because your dad wants to be open about this that things may get off to a decent start with everybody coming together.

I have a 3 yr old so I haven't exactly come to the time where I have to explain to her anything yet. I don't blame your husband because my husband and even my mom are very sensitive to confusing her. I want to be open with her, but it's still a very adult topic, even for your daughter at age 5.

I was in college at the time and had a great counselor. I looked up to my dad and wanted to be just like him when I was little so she helped to gain my own identity and not be so reliant on seeing myself as an extension of my dad. That may even help you to think about this from a more objective point of view- it's hard not to personalize it as something being done to you or taken away from you. I have to take time or distance myself sometimes and I won't lie- it feels like I lost my dad a little. But it's part of growing up. It reminds me of when my dad was different to me when I became a teenager compared to his little girl. It's a letting go process like that- things have changed and so will the relationship, guaranteed.

Hope this helps come back and comment any time.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

confuddled~ I wanted to add that you need to brace yourself for lots of changes. People may say it's your same dad in a different package but not true. One of the differences in my dad was being more emotional and all the other things that come along with estrogen (from estrogen supplementation). My dad and I struggled because I gained my own identity. I perceived him differently and maybe inferior in a way. I think I probably lost some respect for him too. Just be ready to deal with the changes, not just in your dad's appearance but a commenter above stated that when men first change it's like they are first trying to be a girl/woman. They are starting at a junior high level of girlhood at an adult age. You are lucky to have siblings to gain different perspectives and for a support system.


Gentle Breeze 5 years ago

Thanks for writing a great hub Izettl. I am just sorry that your experiences had to be... not fun. He/she was sooo selfish!

You are probably aware of this, but not all transgendered people are like your dad. He/she seems to fit the secondary trans type were they tend to view themselves as becoming a woman. There is another type (the type that I am). I view myself as always having been a girl. It is just that all my life I have had to act like a guy so I could survive. What "becoming a woman" was to your dad is more like "stop acting" to me. All of that to say, not everyone is like your dad.

As I mentioned, I am trangender. I just turned 20, still live with my very conservative family (think Amish), I love them very much, and they do not know about how I feel (but they have jokingly (maybe) asked if I am gay). I really want to not hide anything from them, but I am so scared. I also want to make sure that I do not to damage my relationships with them. This conflict of me being me and my love for them has almost killed me (literally). Having been on the other side, do you have any tips on how I might best talk to them?


Marissa 5 years ago

I am a transgender parent and I have had a tough time. My daughter is 3 and she accepts me wholly, the most difficult part of my transition has been her mother hatred, lies, false accusations, and threats toward me. My daughter does notice this and she tells me that she loves me but she can't see why they all hate me, the other day she asked me what a fag is, as that is what her mother refers to me as. I'm a lesbian but the point here is that at her home my daughter is being taught to hate and when she is with me I am good to her, teach her to love and respect everyone regardless of their differences.. If not for me then my daughter would become hate-consumed like her mother and she would grow up to be narrow-minded.... Now why am I transitioning? Because my entire life I have felt like a female inside and my skin crawls when I think of myself as a male, I couldn't take being perceived as a male while I interacted with others as a female and viewed myself as a female. Had I not transitioned I would have continued spiraling into deeper depression and now for the first time in my life I feel like a human, I have self-confidence, and I feel beautiful inside. Also, I am a MUCH better parent as before I was too consumed by self-hatred and conflicting emotions and thought.


komi 5 years ago

I'm sooooo glad you posted this, b/c I always feel so lonely with my feelings and emotions nobody wants to recognize! You're completely right about the "obligation" to be suportive and nice with transex. people, without paying enough attention to our own emotions.

It's still painful to talk about that - my father transitioned 2 years ago, and the hurt is still deep. Our mother fell into depression (she was incredibly shoked, as she had absolutely no idea of what my father wanted to do - yet some "good willing"people blamed her "you couln't NOT know, you must have had some clues, you can only blame yourself" bla bla bla). We all tried to be supportive, and went to support groups and consulting with him, as he wanted us to be a part of "his journey". Now he lives as a woman and worked in child-care, even if he was an extremely qualified uni teacher.

The point is, he never asked us, his children, if we wanted to be a part of his journey. he just dragued us along, assuming we will support him unconditionally. Of course, we did - he is/was our father. But I cried myself to sleep (still do sometimes) almost an entire year. My brother (17 at the time) took it very badly too - he explained me that he was afraid being into a relationship because "what if the girl is like dad and wants to become a boy?".

I don't remember who said, above, that everybody tells you it is still your dad in a new form, and that it was Bulls**t, but this person was right. I feel like my dad is dead, really dead - he/she explained us that before, her "male form" felt like a disguise, does that mean we loved a disguise?! I used to respect him as a person (independently from the fact he is my dad), b/c he was smart, successful, reliable, and contributed so much to the community. Now, it is almost like he feels the need to fill all stupid female stereotypes of our society : he speaks like a valley girl in a high voice I hate (but that's a general dislike : I hate girls who speak this way, all strident voice and precious gesture), wears pink and outrageous make-up, and has a job obviously below his current qualification (he claims kids accept everything, but I went to his job a few times, and when I talked to the children, they told me my father was "odd" - I never told him). He keeps saying he feels good, and beautiful, but I can feel my patience wearing thin. If he was my dad, I know I wouldn't like him as a person, b/c he became a kinda self-absorbed, stereotyped woman.

In the end, I just want to stop worrying about him, about hurting his feelings, about respecting his journey and his rights, I want to move on. I feel like my father doesn't exist anymore - now he doesn't act as a parent, more an aunt or a female family relaionship. He may be happier now, but the other individuals of the family were devasted. My mother is a very quiet person, and obviously tried not to hurt us further. So she basically shalowed her hurt to help us (her children, not our dad), but I know she suffers a lot. Recently she told me she'd have like our father told her he felt like a woman at the beginning, b/c she would have be able to choose another man to have children with. I realized she was right - If transexuals feel like men/women since they are born and know they want to get Op one day, please don't marry someone and have children as someone of your biological gender. You will hurt them and make them confused for the rest of their life!


Confuddled 5 years ago

i think this is a great way just to talk to each other and just get our feelings out. I am soo glad there are transgenders on here to help us family members try to understand, i believe this will help alot. to let people know the talk went very well. It was a sad story and now i feel more sorry for my dad than anything else. He to is considered a lesbien (which sometimes i laugh as this is some "mens" fantasy lol). For me my father wasn't really a "father" as he was consumed by alcohol and drugs. and now he is being the parent that he always was supposed to be so we are a little backwards. he to always knew he was a girl at a very early age. and sorry i cant remember your name but the young transexual ~ i'd go see a counselor of some sort because i know as a family member i wish i was told alot earlier and maybe it will be somewhat easier for you and your family that they know sooner rather than later. and i know at the same time your family is conservative which i know will be harder than hell to try to explain to them but if you do go see a counselor maybe you can bring in your family and at least you will have someone to help you explain it. i hope the best for you and my heart goes out to all of you guys/girls because it is not fair you were born in the wrong body and sociaty doesnt want to accept that such a thing happens. with that being said lol im dreading my dad physical transition....which sould be in a couple of months....oh boy lol. But like i said in the begginng i like that we have both parties here and we can all help and support each other

Thanks all :)


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Gentle Breeze~ The one thing I wished my dad did was talk to me- simple as that. It has to start with a conversation because this all may bring on various feelings for your family, but nothing is more hurtful than hiding it, and as time goes by, hiding it even longer hurts everyone even more.

Realize your family has known you as what they've seen and the child they knew. We all go through this growing up, and that's getting our parents to see and accept us as an individual. You basically have an extra task of getting them to see you as a "new" individual.

May I say one thing: be confident in who you are first. If they do not totally accept you, you must be strong enough to handle the possible outcomes. Get right and 100% with yourself, then go to them with that energy.

I can't totally blame my dad because he came from a family similar to the way yours sounds like. They were a prestigious family and would not have tolerated the "disgrace". Your family may fall into that category of not wanting to know but I can't help but think some of your turmoil inside is mostly because you would like your family to know. Like I said, get right with you first, then transfer that energy into how you can confidentally tell them. Don't focus on the differences in you now, but rather how you are still similar in ways you've always been thorughotu your life. Being on the other side of this, I still wanted to know if there were pieces of my father left in his new body- that's what is comforting to know.

My thoughts are with you...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

marissa~ having a 3 yr old daughter myself, they are naturally open-minded, lucky for you. UNfortunately they pick up on all sorts of things, good and bad, and they feel deeply about anything that effects their parents. She is too young to know the discrepencies between your views and her mother's so there is a lot of confusion in her little mind. She will ultimately have her very own opinion and no matter what mom says, or even you, she will come to her own conclusions. All you can do is keep being a good role model. She is lucky to have you and I feel really sorry for her mom who has to live with enough hate inside her to call you names behind your back. She doesn't have to forgive you or like you, but she should set a good example for her daughter regardless.

Because of my dad, I want my daughter to be OK with and understand differences in people. It's a great learning opportunity for your daughter too. You can do nothing more than set a good example. Thank goodness for your compassion.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Komi~ most everything out there in the way of counsleing, books, etc will suggest family being supportive of a transgender, but our need for suport is grossly underestimated. Most of the time, the family is caught off guard and has little time to think about it to the time the person will transition. I had a couple of weeks from when I found out my dad had already changed to when I would first see the "new" him/her. Of course it's hard. You can't really be prepared for it.

I have fears like your brother. My little girl pretends to be a prince sometimes, instead of a princess and I constantly worry she will want to be a boy even though I see other little girls pretending like her to be boy things- it still worries me.

You have very legitimate questions. You stated your dad felt like his life as a male was a disguise and you wondered the same thing I did too- was his love for me also pretend? Yes. my dad also wore the most outrageous girly outfits and too much make-up. Someone above (Jeanine) commented on this. THey are literally starting over at the age of a young girl- starting over trying to be like and learning what it is to be a girl. Like a little girl who plays dress-up. What was hard for me was when my dad wanted reassurance of his new look and I wanted to say it looked so cliche and ridiculous. We lose respect for this parent naturally when they go through this juvenille stage. Many years later, my dad has settled down a bit and doesn't act like a woman too hard.

Although I am thankful for being born, i also suggest to transsexuals to not live a lie until you get your change. Don't have kids and a family or get maried under false pretenses. Thanks so much for your comment.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

confuddled~ I too am glad both sides are portrayed here. It helps even if we find points we disagree on- we can still try to understand the other.

Glad yoru talk went well and I've heard many transgenders say they are better people once they transition- even better parents as Marissa stated in the comment above. The awkwardness between my dad and I is because he is so sensitive about this that he won't talk to me about it. The hypocisy of our situation drives me nuts too. He doesn't approve of many things in my life yet I should give him the benefit of the doubt and accept his life. It just proves all of our situations here are unique. Best of luck with your dad's transition.


Gentle Breeze 5 years ago

Thank you so much for the advice. It is very helpful. I really appreciate it.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

No problem Gentle Breeze- hope something helps and thank you so much for adding to this discussion. I commend you for acting on changing when you are young- it takes courage and belief in who you are.


Gentle Breeze 5 years ago

Courage? I am scared to death!


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Gentle Breeze~ What I said about you needing to be confident in who you are will help them see that this is right for you. Also being confident in who you are will help you deal with some rejection or disappointment should they have any issues with it. You don't know how they will take it so you must be prepared for both.

As someone whose been that family hearing the news, I can tell you the hurtful part was my dad not telling me until he had already changed.

I know you must be scared, they will be too. Just remember that their fear can result in many reactions from them, but both you and them are fearful about stuff- you do share that commonality with them.


Gentle Breeze 5 years ago

I hadn't really thought about how they would be afraid too. Thank you so much for the insight and advise.


Mas 5 years ago

I stumbled across this hub and spent the entire evening reading it and all the comments. I must say it’s very reassuring to find others that went through a similar experience. I don’t know how often I read someone’s comments that were almost identical to my own thoughts and feelings.

My father is transgendered and, like many others, he felt like a female since he was a kid but hide it and tired to live a ‘normal life’ by getting married and having kids. He had his operation over 10 years ago, about 5 years before that he told me that he was a cross dresser, I was 13 at the time. I felt like everything I knew growing up was a lie. My parents tried to stay together “for the sake of the kids” but it was obvious that the marriage was over and they got divorced when I was 17. It has taken me a very long time to process all my emotions and I’m still not entirely okay with it. Without going into details, there were many times when he was emotionally manipulative, hypocritical, and would put his own wants in front of the needs of his family.

Currently, I prefer not to have much of a relationship with my dad which is hard since I was close to him growing up. I’ve tried to spend some time with him but I just find it strange. He’s not the same person that I knew growing up, which can be painfully obviously at times.

It’s true that there are few support systems for the spouses and children of transgender. It was either something a therapist had never encountered and didn't know what to do or there was pressure to be supportive of the transgender with little considerations of our feelings. My mom took my brothers and I to a therapist a few times but it seemed like he was out of his league and didn’t know what exactly to say. I went to a few sessions and then he seemed to think I didn’t need any more. But knowing how I was and am at time, that couldn’t have been further from the truth. I was an emotionally wreck and felt completely alone. It took a long time to stop feeling like that. I also found it annoying that my dad seemed to think that we were supposed be to supportive of him and was hurt when that wasn’t the case. I think he’s realises now that I need time and our relationship may never be what he wants it to be. I do mourn the loss of my father but at the same time, I feel like the father that I knew was just a lie which can be painful.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Mas... I am so sorry you had to face this...I am trans but chose to stay in this body for my wife and children... and for me as well... I know you feel liked he lied and he did... but let me shine a little light on the subject... of emotional pain... I hope you can take a moment... if you know someone who has a massive physical handicap... then look closely... because the pain in most trans lives are very similar... for me it has been the most painful experience of my entire life, it is on going, relentless and ruthless in so many ways... if you look at one who is handicapped after many years... one can see where it has taken it's toll on the body... well emotional of this magnitude takes that kind of toll on the mind... now I say this not to defend him/her but to make an effort for you to understand to him it was not a lie... it was him trying his best to be the man that he thought he should be... for the transsexual the pages are empty in the book marked male... there are some pages that are marked... public behavior... but those are the only ones that were in my book... the tragedy is there are only wishes in the book marked female... so he will never be comfortable inn either role... think of it this way... if you had a massive lip for decades and someone came to your town and said... I can make you whole... you just need to be one or the other... now the other is what the family needs him to be.. yet he has been doing that all of his life and he is still bothered by this ache in his heart and mind... would you do it... change I mean... yes is the answer because of the pain has been with you for so long... by the time most transsexual realize we are both... it is to late... modern science has done a great disservice to us as a tribe... we are one or the other... we are both... but instead of rejoicing in the fact... we continue to see it as wrong and want to fix it... very male like behavior... the hero thing... wait I'll save the day and fix it... here's the kicker... if you can... and I don't know how you can but if you can... go to him/her and tell him you have new information and need for her to come clean... reclaim your dad... it's not his fault that he was tricked by medicine... so many of people put their trust in the medical community... when we just shouldn't have... I will be praying for you... there is a solution but it is not easy...


Mas 5 years ago

Jeanine - I understand what you're saying and appreciate it, thanks for the support. In a way, I understand why he did what he did, thought it has taken me quite awhile to get to that point. But at the same time I don't want to have a relationship with him, at least not in the way he wants. In part because of his change but also because of other things that he did that has damaged my trust in him (a good family man appearance can be very deceiving). I have tried to spend time with him but I don't like how he behaves and he says things that I don't appreciate. When I've tried to talk about how I feel about it with him or with certain other family members, I'm left with the impression that how I feel about it is wrong. It's as though, unless I accept him wholeheartedly, any other way is wrong. I really wish that wasn't the case. I find it strange how he (and some other family members) talk about acceptance but there's little acceptance for for the different ways that people would respond. For me, the best way to deal with it is to minimize my contact with him. Some people might not think that it's ideal but that's what has worked for me and truthfully, I'm dealing with it a lot better now. I still miss my dad but he's not the same person that I knew.


Mas 5 years ago

Just thought of something that I wanted to add that might help clarify my position. One of the biggest problems that I have with my father is his tendency to be manipulative. It was something that I overlooked as a child but as I got older, I saw it for what it was and growing up it was mostly directed at my mother. He was great at playing the victim and making everything her fault. Now when it comes to being transsexual, all the information that he found emphasized the importance for others to be supportive and accepting. Add that to what I already mentioned about him and it's not surprising that he would use it against us to make us feel guilty. That's why I wish that there were better support for families going through this experience since it's a very complex situation and isn't the same for everyone.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I just noticed these comments above so I'll have to do some reading, think about it, and get back to you guys soon: Mas and Jeanine.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

MAS~ Yep, your story sounds so familiar. Wow. SO here's the two things that stand out to me. You said your dad was emotionally manipulative, basically psychologically abusive. My dad was too so it was hard for me to come under fire from some of the transgender comments to me about how I was being selfish.My dad spent most of my childhood being selfish and once again, he's allowed to be selfish because I have to be "supportive". The transgender is looked upon as being very delicate because of a high suicide possibility, etc, but I also remember being a delicate child who did not know how to handle my dad's cross-dressing.

As an adult, it is now our choice as to how we want to handle things, but people are stll whispering in our deafened ears about how we should be supportive. I know this can sound insensitive or mean, but I am conveying to you I know exactly how you feel.

THe manipulation was how they got us to not reject them when we were kids, but now we see through it and I know my dad tries even harder, but his efforts are fruitless. My dad has always tried to make me feel less worthy than him. I absolutely know that stems from how he's felt about himself.

I used to try to please my dad, but I knew it was over once I graduated college and he said he didn't think I coudl do it- I graduated top of my class. The discrepency about what he told me about myself no longer matched up with what I knew about myself. And that is how you can diminish the pain and annoyance of your dad's manipulation, but it seems you've realized it and see through it.

The whole issue boils down to being more than what a child knows how to deal with. YOu were 13 or younger when you got some clues as to things not seeming "normal". I was really young when and one of my first memories as a kid is my dad wearing full slips or frilly stuff occasionally around the house. He would make games of it and I still have blame within me about him involving me with something I wasn't old enough to know about or decide for myself.

Our sense of security is absent because our moms were supposed to protect us if our dad's weren't. The facthat something is happening in the house and with our dads that isn't honestly and correctly explained to us just made us feel less secure as kids.

I'm still trying to dig into why there is such a lack of support for those of us in this position.To be honest I deal with it the same way you do- seeing my father much less often. And it seems to work for me too. You've accepted that he isn't the same person and that's hard. THat was hardest for me. It's like losing a parent but their ghost is hanging around.I have written a book and is much more organized than my thoughts here, but I am waiting on getting it published. I hope it can someday be a resource for those in our position.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ some good advice there. As I've mentioned, my dad just doesn't talk about it at all- the silent white elephant in the room. But the catch is I'm a little unnerved about talking about it to him anyway. It's like a sex talk with a parent- no thanks.

The way he explained it when he first told me he had it done was how he was forced to be a man and go to Vietnam war. He was forced to kill and he hated everything about being a man and what it stood for. He never mentioned anything about wanting to be a girl from childhood, but he did say he had dressed up in his sister's clothes for fun as a kid. So much of his explanation seemed emotionally driven- his dad teased him and pressured him about not being manly enough, and all the other things I mentioned above. It's still hard for me to accept the biological born that way notion, but it's hard to argue with someone in that position. I got my education in psychology based on the Diagnostic Manual for psychological disorders and Gender Identity Disorder is in there so it always striked me as something psychological more than biological.

Interesting conversation...

I do have to thank you again for giving me personal insight about my dad. Viewing my dad as oth male and female made the most sense to me. I believe h thinks of himself as both and most transgenders I've spoken to didn't understand that. The reality, as you also explained, is they are struggling with the identity of both sexes.


Jeanine 5 years ago

The hardest thing in the world, is for a child to see who their parents really are... one of the most painful moments I've ever felt...is when there was no longer a facade of Dad is a super hero... when you look in your childs eyes and see you are no longer the shiny hero of their childhood... quite emotional... Transgenders no longer have a place in society and therefore an idol mind is the devils workshop... think of it this way... you have the gifts of a King or a Queen but no people to lead... maddening really... I have to say that both of you girls are amazing for even looking for the solution... the mind is an amazing thing.. it will continue to look for the answer, so take those thoughts you have in trying to make sense from something that makes absolutely no sense and multiply them by a thousand and you see the transgenders morning when he is about 8 years old... the ache has been there since much earlier but around 6 or 7 he starts to realize, he has this thought every morning when he wakes...very innocent at first... I was actually married and way into my life before I realized it was a problem to others, and was devastated when I realized how much it hurt my wife... here's a small window... and a reason for the behavior I believe... Izetti you are right in that it is a psychological challenge... the mind continues to try and resolve the two pictures that we have and because we are at the frontier of learning about this... there is no one to say... hey you don't have to be one or the other you are trans and you will have a wonderful life because of it... instead we have grown men taking advantage of small children just as your dad's did but the opposite happening actually to your dads... go look at the grandfather and talk to him... it's part of his story to.. your grandmother is not guilty... but the old man is... I ws the luckiest my Dad had found a way to express his fem side and was a hairdresser so I saw a man who was unafraid of his other side... so he showed me without even trying that there was a way to get through to the other side... if you have children you want the best for them right... ok what if you have a child that more creative than you... in their emotional frame work... then you are at odds sometimes without meaning to be... education is the key... I am whole today because I had a dad and mom you never thought I was strange... in any way and if I thought those thoughts they were the first to impress upon me that I was born beautiful... and that one thought carried me all my life... be so careful with your child... they are truely an original... pulling for you girls... please to continue to try and face this... it's like the most beautiful wild horse in the west... right now it's still wild but one day... you'll tame it within yourself... I am sorry for the heart ache and pain these troubled men have caused you... they do love you.. just can't seem to get out of their own way.. tragic in ways... but the funniest thoughts in the world if the Trans can forgive himself...truly there is a side that he wants to show you but is so inept at expressing himself that it comes out harsh and manipulating... it's hell for him to... resolve when you can... go to him and tell him how childish she is acting... you might be surprised... demand that she sees that she has no rights as a father or an authority in your life... she'll sit down and cry and then there may be a chance for another life... remember if one changes ones circumstance... ones circumstances change...


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torconstantino 5 years ago from Maryland

@izettl, this is without a doubt one of the most profound hubs I've read. I'm deeply moved by your willingness to share this incredibily vulnerable story to strangers like me, but I'm also saddened by the burden you had to bear as a child - as well as the uncertainty your father still forces you to carry. My heart and prayers go out to you.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

torconstantino~ thank you so much for your comment. I thought a long time about sharing this story, but I thought maybe others might have gone through similar and from the comments on here, I have learned about those in my dad's position and mine so I am glad it has come together. Thank you for prayers.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ sorry I missed this last comment of yours. You're so right about not seeing a parent as a "super hero". I lost that so late in life, when my dad changed actually. I always wanted to be like him growing up. It's hard for me to think he goes through any anguish or turmoil about his change because he doesn't show it, but I know he must. My dad's dad did some things that my dad told me about, like making him shoot his dog when the dog got badly injured. My dad loved that dog and has never owned another dog in his adult life. I know my grandpa was always trying to make my dad a man's man- making him go to war, etc. That's awesome to hear you had a kinder, more open dad. My grandpa is 92 now and doesn't have much memory of anything- he's got dementia, but I always wanted answers and it's OK I won't have them. I'm coming to terms with that. My daughter pretends to be a prince or princess- she is very open about playing with girl and boy toys and I let it be. I encourage her to be her. I can't imagine pretending or living as anything else- I know many transsexuals do. I don't often see Dr.Phil (TV show) and was surprised to turn it on recently and see a man who was married with kids going through turmoil about changing, but loved his family so much. There are certainly two sides to this story and so many others. I thank you for representing a very insightful look into one of those sides.


Jeanine 5 years ago

HI Izetti... thanks for the response... your dad is in anguish... the male part of him can hide it and that's part of the hurt that actually beats you up, when he looks at you and expects your acceptance... look closely... it's not real and he is hurting so badly, he will wounded you... just like an animal in pain... not meaning to... but dangerously close to biting the hand that feeds him...

You are right to let your child live... what goes wrong in most transgenders lives is they are born free... and it's impossible to break their spirits... it's part of the gift... so most dad's being so proud of their sons... are alarmed when little Jonny picks up a doll and combs it's hair... never knowing the child just sees the hair out of place... not that it's a girl... or boy doll... so begins the Transgenders life... so with the Dad watching more carefully now... the child begins to notice what triggers more attention... what begins as a game to the child... is already dead serious and painful to the man... at odds for life... simply from not allowing the child to be a child.. I see my own children and can pen point each problem that bothers me now, to a specify way in which I handled them earlier in their lives... I do not blame myself... but could and that would take me down another road...

as far as trans people living as someone else and pretending... I was very fortunate to be able to build the character in whose body I live... into a successful person that I actually like... so for me, as a child when everyone had an imaginary friend... mine was real...lol.. and I knew him and know him very well... insight to being trans... if one sees something you don't like about yourself, how hard is that to change?... some say impossible... yet with being trans... you look at it as that someone else doing that so you need to reprogram and change Him...lol...the drawback to most of our lives in the trans community is we have had dads that told us we are wrong or bad so the worse happens... you take a very creative mind and shut it down for sixteen years... now the dad think well I'll make a man out of him yet.. I'll send him to war, teach him to fight, ruff him up and he'll be a man like me... instead of saying wow look at this flower God has sent to my family... I will help it grow and see what comes to me and mine through this greatness... my father was the latter... so you can see why I represent differently... I'll never forget my first therapist... she asked why I didn't present as a woman... I answered her and said because I'm trans... she looked puzzled... right there I knew she was wrong for me... nice person, very informed but clueless to what I was going through... later in my life there are times I wished I was only a woman or only a man... but mostly just when I'm tired or lonely... then I remember... to who is given much... much is expected... thx so much for letting me comment...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I never know whether his hurting me is part of his personality or something to do with his pain with his changing. Every time we're doing good or I feel closer, he makes a mean purposeful remark or cuts me down in some way.

i will probably be similar to you in pinpointing what I may have done wrong. Oh I wish I had hindsight right now to ward off any issues while I'm raising my daughter now. At first, because I'm probably hyperensitive to the gender thing, I was concerned my daughter liked to play as a prince or a princess and takes on both male and female roles, but I've realized it's OK. It's still that part of me that doesn't know what is "normal".Children are so gender non-specific.

My dad looks like a man in public and around me- don't knwo what he does other times so it was confusing to me because I wanted to label him male or female and I tought if he got the sex change, why is he not ALL female- acting and dressing. That's why I have you to thank for that first comment you made to me. Its like digging deep and finally getting an answer from my dad that made sense because most other transgenders(male to female) I had known of or people talk about are fully female so this "limbo" my dad was in made it confusing.

My dad bypassed the therapist route by going to Thailand to have his change. He is very intelligent- got offered to be in Mensa but turned it down- he's probably too smart for them- lol. He made roadkill out of any therapists I'm sure. Of course since I studied psychology I wish he had had some counseling, maybe help to deal with me or something along those lines. When he first told me it's like he was already on defense and attackd every comment I made so there was no talking to him. I've always had an open mind even when my dad tried to forbid me to date an American Indian in high school because he was "below" me, I've always been open to and had "interesting" people as friends- different backgrounds, different views, etc. My dad had always been so close-minded toward me and my life and it amazed me that he expected me to really open my mind to him being a woman.

Thanks for letting me rable on- your words always spark new info for me and make me think in such a new way. I really hope others have read your words on here too.


jeanine 5 years ago

Hey... you are so good for me also... I read you and can get a look at what might be helpful in discussions with my own children... again I am considered by the community as a gender outlaw... such an outdated term... no wonder people are afraid of us... men who are women... women who are men... the biggest challenge for an intelligent person like your dad is there was and is so little information... think about it... if everything one read said there is no cure except to change the body... to fit the picture in the mind what would one do...I needed the therapy myself... because I could ask the questions in my own heart... like "if we are women, what woman do you know that would let any man hurt her child, this question is and will be the one question that know trans will want to answer, every single therapist I know, said no woman would ever let that happen, so I asked... then if I'm in the wrong body and that body is the body of a man, yet he is not me, how do I let this man I'm living in... attack my family"....the answer is simple for me... I would kill any man who threatens my family" and I'm sure that is why there are some suicides... it is my belief that one day in the future, my tribe will come to rest in who we are... trans behavior and the American lifestyle are not a good marriage... Trans is a long historical journey that deals with the inner spiritual exploration of man and womankind, the American way is to... get ur done... lol... how redneck can we be... I think I'll have an operation then I'll be a woman... how much of a Cad can I be... the very thought process of that's all it takes is so male to me that it makes me sick at times...lol... there are more like me... but they are afraid that they will be singled out and just like in the old days... be stoned for being different... you Father has some of these traits though or he wouldn't have skipped the therapy...


jeanine 5 years ago

One point that is very important to me is... with trans I am both and have a simpler understanding of both genders... if I am one or the other... actually getting to taste genius every once in a great while simply from the odds... if I am one or the other... I am less impressive to myself and to you as well... for living all my life as a man... I can never be truly a woman... nor having the insight of a woman on certain things... I can never be fully a man... but together they are quite impressive... so I remain what I was created to be... happy with both... and terrorized by both... over joyed sometimes and sobered by the sadness that both can possess... so human in all my frailties... Christ like in possessing both man, woman... as He possessed part man and part God... being glorified eventually into fully man and fully God... there at this point is the spiritual greatness that Transgenders were meant to be...


komi 5 years ago

Hi, everybody, it's me again.

I've just come to ask some advice, as this tread of comments now looks like a forum.

I just had a long discussion with my father (MTF for 3 years now). It begins as he complained I didn't "take him into account" enough into my life (not listening his advices, not coming to see him, etc). I tried to explain him that 1) I'm not a kid anymore, and I live my life without needing my parents daily, 2) since his Op, he doesn't feel like a parent to me. I mean, he is the one who said "he didn't want to be regarded as a father anymore", ok? He claimed that he wants to be a "other kind of parent", but we (brother & I) already have a mother, who is a wonderful woman, and we don't need an extra one. If he wants to be an "idea of a parent", sexless and desincarnate, well ok, but it's not really appealing to us. EVen years after his op, it' s as if he doesn't find his place back into our life.

To be honnest, I kind of ok with this situation. As I said before, since his op, he hasn't really acted as a father/parent. I don't mean that it is his fault : he had others things to think about (the sex reassign, how to be a woman, to reorganise his life...). But as a result now, we (still brother and I) don't feel like we have a father. It's as if the man who was our father is dead, and the person who remplaced him isn't really our parent, even if he tries now. We still love him, because he is our father, but we don't particularly appreciate the person he became (as I explain in a previous comment : high-schooler girl voice, outrageous make-up, crying for nothing because "it is his female side to needs to be expressed"...).

He was crushed, and I'm sorry he took it so badly, but I feel incredibly lighter to have spilt out what I was ruminating on since months. On the other hand, my psychologist said I shouldn't feel this way, because it isn't healthy to "push your parent out of your life". I dont feel like I did that! I was just trying to say that our relationship HAD been affected by everything, and it would be foolish to think otherwise. What's your opinion? Should I have kept quiet about how I see our relationship since his Op?


Jeanine 5 years ago

Komi... you are absolutely right to speak up and express yourself... he did and that's a fact... here's the other side... inside he feels like the ugly girl n class... and he is... but every once in a while you see a real sweet pretty girl taking some time with her friend... so try and be her friend if you can.. you will be surprised how quickly she will take her place as your distant friend... terrible for your father but really alright even wonderful for Her life... which is tragic in some ways... mostly for the father daughter relationship... she only wants to explore all the places she dreamed of all of her life... and you are a wonderful Daughter to let her... but the challenge for her is, she may be getting what she thought she wanted and really didn't.... and the real side is... one day before she passes away you will want to know her and why she did this... maybe not now... but as you mature... you will want to settle some things in your own mine... you and your brother are very brave and you must be honest with her father as she is now... unfortunately she denied herself so long of these simple pleasures that they have become larger than life... for the Trans to look in the mirror and resemble the woman, even in the slightest, is over whelming... bathed in bliss I've heard and experienced it in some ways... but... the main reason that some of us do not transition fully is we do not want to push our children away or hurt them or take out our complains on the people we have spent most of our lives encouraging... and teaching the lessons of life... you will do good... Izetti has the experience and she has a real handle on her own life... so stay close to her... and keep your brother close... it's a scary thing... but can be beautiful... if she can learn to laugh at herself...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

JEanine~ there you go again with a super comment that sticks out in my mind. I love what you said about being superior because you are both and yet inferior because you are a little of both. So many advantages and disadvantages. My dad certainly threw me for a loop because I grew up seeing my mom as weak and thinking all women were weak and I was going to be a strong woman and imitate my dad's traits. I very much looked up to him and then when he turned out to be a woman, I was shocked. All that time I was imitating his strengths to not be a weak woman. Although. I can look at it as I did get a strong woman (my dad) as a role model. It is tough for me to see how others see my dad now, after his change. I'm his only family member he sees. It's still strange now because he is so fragile and that's not the dad I grew up with.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Komi~ Jeanine has some good advice. I've been talking to her to understand my own dad better. Very helpful. Let's see what I can add to her comment. Well, I agree with saying how you feel. I don't remember how long you said your dad has been a woman, but my dad was unbearable to be around for at least the first 3-5 years he had his change- super girly and kind of weird to me. It was all about him, he seemed to be acting a part so much that I wanted to tell him to cut the act and just be "normal". It's been 12 years now and he has settled back to a little more of who my dad used to be. He doesn't overdo the feminine part. He is 66 yrs old and I think he is just as I view him: a person. I've begun to see him as neither male nor female, but just as a person.

You said you are old enough to not need your parents all the time and maybe just go with that. Tell your dad maybe he's feeling less like a father because you don't need hands-on father advice anymore. That's a normal transition that all kids go through with parents. it was also hard for my dad to come to terms with me having my own opinion and not always listening to his advice. It's been harder since he changed because he takes it personally, or thinks it's because of his change, that he doesn't have 100% of my respect for his opinions and advice. That's something still an issue between us, but stand your ground.

The fact is as you stated, my dad and I do better together when he is not trying to be my father, but just someone who loves and cares about me and me for him. What's been good is seeing my dad during my last visit the way he was with my daughter reminded me of how he was with me during our good times when I was a kid. He can't really be my dad anymore (not at least the dad I remember) but I see how my daughter reacts to him, knowing him this way and only this way. She never knew him as a "man" so she doesn't know better. I guess it;s easier for me to view my dad in my daughter's eyes. She doesn't have the history or the expectations I have of him.

My advice is to keep a balance. I would tell my dad how I felt and it always led to a bad argument and I wouldnt talk to him for months. He would try to change me and I would wish he wouldn't have changed. We did that dance for so lon anf finally we've struck some balance. If you let out an issue for you once in a while and don;t ombard him all at once, like it sounds what you did this last time, then things don't get so heated. Still mention how you feel, but more evenly over the course of time. It doesn't have to be all figured out at once. It will take time (trust me) to figure out where you fit into each other's lives. I know my dad was used to calling the shots, but when he changed he couldn't make me see him as my same dad. This was a struggle but like I said, time has settled in and made the relationship more comfortable and easy.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Komi~ I just saw where your dad has been MTF 3 years so like I said in my other comment. My dad drove me nuts with over feminity his first few years. I avoided him for the most part because I didn't like him even as a person or friend- sounds like what you are going through.

I had a good counselor when I was going through that (in college) and she encouraged me to tell my dad how I felt. It must be out there. You didn't tell your dad how you felt to push him out of your life,but it is like you explained a big weight lifted. Because it seems to be all about them when they've changed and you wonder when you can get your two cents in. It may be a while before you know where and how you fit into each others life. THe relationship is effected and the sooner you and your father strike a balances relationsip, the better it will be and you may even see some of those attributes you loved in your father before. Things have changed and certainly your dad has his share of joy for his new life, but remorse about his old life.Everybody pays a price in this situation.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Very good advice Izetti... I bet you are a wonderful mom.. sister, daughter and wife... your dad is fragile so as much kindness as you can spare will help... the reason can be many things but there is a sadness that comes with full transition in older women... think about it from your fathers view... he never got to sit in his dads lap and kissing his face all over, pajama parties, missed his first kiss from a boy... his first crush... throwing a training bra away... first lacy set of bra and panties... losing his virginity to a guy in the heat of passion... walking down the isle on the arms of his dad knowing how much he's loved... being entrusted to her husband by her dad... having a child grow within and hold that child as you give it nourishment... are all things that he missed and can never recover... and although he is sure transition we stop him from missing the rest of his life... he can never justify what he has done to his wife and children... I used to think well... most of these girls just had bad wives... because most are at odds with their families...not all but a lot of us are... but I have realized, its easier for the trans to dislike their family, so they don't have to face the pain as often...

there are other reasons for the fragile behavior... joy and laughter are never quite as deep with friends as with family... the term... "this is the happiest I've ever been"... continues to surface in all my friends conversations... it is a mantra that each of us have to repeat... or we cry... for me there is no win... with full transition to the binary system... "the lioness with me will not allow the lion without" the opportunity to hurt my family" and that's the difference... that one thing in my life has saved me from totally heart break... my parents allowed me to be me... God knows I'm glad...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I am glad you know how lucky you were to have the parents you did. I know how much my dad struggled with his parents. I wish I could get him to see how much he is like his dad towards me. Most of the relationship is on my side, it feels. I go visit him, we go do things he enjoys, but I know this is a lot to do with his personality perhaps rather than having a sex change because he's always been that way and it's exactly what he complained about his dad doing. That's probably a whole other hub though (laughing).

I act around my dad toward his emotional fragility like I would act physically around a burn victim- very careful.

Your comment is comforting- knowing there are valid reasons for my father my delicate relationship.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti... after I read my comments again... I am so sorry to have put it so sadly... unfortunately you already know about the sadness... to me you and Komi will be known as pioneers of an ill fated experiment... that one day will come to an end... many years ago I say on a flight with one of the main guys from the John Hopkins TS project... they had just canceled the study... I asked him why... he said we were wrong to try and make these wonderful human beings into one or the other... now that being said...it doesn't diminish all of us having these thoughts... here's an opinion of what I think may have happened... all of these terms that we use in our community are new... TS trans, gender queer etc... we must remember medicine has just arrived into an arena we have occupied since the dawn of man... it's like breast implants for women... you need them but hey you can get them so why not enhance...lol... poor example I know... well in this society of oppressed sexuality... and that sounds funny I know... we are caught in the binary system... which is normal to us but it also shows our ignorance... throughout history there is so much more evidence that my kind were here in a very different role than what we have been led to believe... and it's not just the straight people that are doing the damage... at group last night I brought up some of our discussions and although they all listened... the leader popped me later for no reason... the girl next to me had come in late and when the leader reacted the way she did... the girl next to me said ouch... she's in a nasty mood... I responded no she is protecting her turf and making sure no new beliefs enter her court... now these are my friends so they are not going to stone me and I made it as unoffensive as I could... reality is... we have suppressed these wonderful creatures that God has made... "yes Moi" to... to the point they are tired and just want to be left alone... in one sex or the other... look at closely... if you have a very gifted child and put him or her with a group that not gifted and ignore their gifts... what happens.. pretty soon the child... just to be accepted... wants to be like the rest... and that's where we are today in trans history.. of course because we are living it no one can say I am right... but it sure feels like that to me... when I said to the group... I will not let the man's body and mind I live in hurt my children... it hit the fan.. they all respect me but felt I was attacking them for making the decisions that they have made... they did not attack me because I am as strong in my knowledge as they... the old trans spoke clearly and said... remember we were a great tribe... and will be again... there are many shades of light... many colors in the rainbow... we can not cast one out who is different than we... or we will be just like the world... I love her... I hope this sheds some light... I was thinking of you yesterday and I this term defines your dad... Tru-Trans... both... he just no one to talk to and tell him he was alright... when we have so little education on a subject the passion becomes twisted... anger being it's best friend... you will both find your way.. do not tarry the light of the world comes and all Glory will be yours and His... and hopefully mine as well... peace to you my friend... you have been good for me...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ after reading the last part of your comment it made me think about how I noticed how much more comfortable my dad seems to be the last few years. He is who he is supposed to be. It would be hard to doubt that is who he was always meant to be. One example is my dad has always spoken like he is an atheist yet the last few years I've heard him talk about God in general. He seems more spiritual.

It makes a lot sense when you compare it to a gifted child in the wrong environment. Many of us are probably born with plenty of differences and they fade as we get intitiated into society.Some of those difference can be ignored and forgotten and others not so much.

I can imagine the anger you talk about within the trans in your group. There have been some angry ones right here in my comment section. I never understood the anger because those people like me, want to understand. Komi, myself, children of trans are not just another group of people who have issues with the trans community. Our issues stem from the emotional and psychological of "kinda" losing a parent. There isn't much benefit or positive side for us. It's like saying to us- you're losing a parent but gaining a friend and we say what the heck! We have enough friends. We see it as the trans parent has gotten what they've always wanted and congrats to them, and then when we feel and express our range of emotions about it, the trans parent or even the trans community doesn't react so kindly. Maybe the rest of society, not so emotionally invested, shouldn't wave their opinion around, but I think the children of trans do have a right to talk about and express what they think or feel about it. I just hope and wish for trans people to be understanding we're not trying to intrude or exploit their differences. I know they probably want to be left alone, but I also know that there aren't any groups for the children of trans to go to.I reached out on the internet 2 years ago with this article and I've come leaps and bounds in my understanding, possibly helped others, and even received help to understand from you- that very first comment cleared up mountains of questions for me. I set out to help others here and I've reveived the help- unexpected and great! I can see how your parents were by how you've displayed that same open and comforting wisdom and how you've treated everyone here.


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

~to anybody that tells us (children of trans)to just get over our parent's change, to not be selfish, to just accept it is like someone telling you to not be who you are and what you feel is wrong. It's going against the very openness this topic should be addresed with.

Honestly for me, it's not been my personal accpetance for my dad as much as it is issues with others lack of. If I tell friends, they are just a little bit different around me afterwards, they are in disbelief, they have questions that I can't answer, etc. Explaining to my husband, or anybody, why he can't meet my dad. explaining to other family members about my dad. Since my dad's change he has been out of most of my life (not my choice, but his actually)- that's a loss and of course I will have feelings about that.


komi  5 years ago

Thanks you for your advices, at least that makes me think a lot about how handle this situation. I feel like I have to to everything by myself lately : my mother hasn't talked to our father since he came out as a trans (I can't blame her for that, as I completely understand she doesn't want to see him anymore). My younger brother was like "freezed" during the whole Sex-Op process - now he seems to "wake up" : he think his obligations towards our father have ended, and our father is so disagreable to be with that bro avoids him as much as possible. That leaves me as the only one who still try a bit, but it's difficult.

Jeanine, I'm sorry but I don't see the "sweet girl" in my father. Maybe, as Izetti I should try to see him not as my dad or as a gendered being, but just as an asexual person who cares about me...

I tried to think about that from my father's POV since the beginning, and I know he hurts of course. But as you both said, I feel like we didn't have a say into this mess, and that we are the pionner of something (transitionning) nobody knows the real social consequences. I meet a boy from a support group for children of LGTB (his father came out as gay) who said something extremely interesting : "Everybody told us diversity is good, and having a LGTB parent makes us stronger or brings us something more - but it is not true, that just makes our life more difficult. Our parents want to reassure themselves, they claim they did that (coming-out, transitionning) for us, to be more honnest with us and themselves, but the truth is that it's an absolute no-win for us". The moderator of the group was mad, but everybody applaused like crazy!!!

BTW, Izetti I don't know if you were into such a group, but that helps a lot to see others children of Trans or gay are as lost as you.

I still have difficulties to relate to my father situation. For example about what you said Jeanine ("he never got to sit in his dads lap, pajama parties, throwing a training bra away, walking down the isle on the arms of his dad knowing how much he's loved, being entrusted to her husband by her dad"), I don't really feel sorry because 1) That is a bit stereotypes about how girls SHOULD act into our society and more than half of the women on Earth never did such thing, 2) Well, the very fact my father transitionned deprives me from some stuff into this list... But it is true we children of trans we just try and try and try to understand! Sometimes we don't, but I feel like it's wrong to slap us because we say it is hard for us too, or to claim we're transphobic because our father and us didn't immediatly become a big happy family after his Op.

Thanks you again for everything!


Jeanine 5 years ago

Komi... you are absolutely right... and in no way am I saying your dad is in the right or you should feel sorry for him... I am very aware that the pic I described it not real... but most trans... imagine that's what it's like to be a woman... and I believe that picture will help transgenders in the future to make the right choice and stay in their biologically given body....

I can hear your pain... so please forgive me... I didn't say any of my comment for you to feel sorrow for him... you are right to try and help but your brother and mom are right to avoid also...if you can forgive... you can move on.. if not you are stuck here for a moment... I think you and Izetti are very brave human beings... and I only commented because you asked... I would presume to know anything except I am trans and have been fortunate enough to be loved by those around me... so much so it interrupted the transition... the more people realize the possibilities of stopping this and how it might be done... the more we can extinguish the pain or part that has happened to you... again I think you are the bravest and brightest... so don't give up... your father still love you... the one pic that I see in every trans person is the shame... and having lived with it so long... the mind seems to disconnect from putting others first... almost survival mode kicks in... I think it's because we believe, no one has understood... so no one will understand... the child within the man so to speak... for the young trans... it is a brave move to tell... the older trans feels as if he has betrayed himself in denying his true self all his life... which is partially true... here is where I differ from the trans community... I believe these are very talented... extremely intelligent people... so your typical therapist is at a total lose...in the future if we can spot this behavior early enough we can change the outcome and then our community become great once more... I tell you this because you growing up in his house... will have or do have some fallout from knowing him... you will always be looking for this behavior in your children and that's a normal thing... but the most damaging thing is you will not have been taught how to deal with the unexplainable emotional challenges.. and this is why I responded the first time to this page...ask Izetta... she will tell you.. she has a child... I believe this behavior is in the genes so you will have to address it again... hopefully not in this form... but emotional confusion none the less.. I know that is not very comforting... but after you have thought about it... it will be fine... and you will be stronger... again my view is very radical for my community... I see SRS as a great slap to who we are as a tribe... "it's like taking the most beautiful of all flowers in the garden, throwing the blooms in the fire,

leaving the stems and saying...look how beautiful this flower is"... this process with never work for my kind... who are both flower and stem... it has how ever become the way of the medical community in these last few decades... here's the part that's really the most painful.. what kind of pain is each trans person suffering... that we would finally choose to be half the person we were meant to be... the mind and brain have worked so hard to find the answer... unsuccessfully, that finally to get some rest... we say well... the Doctors at least have one solution.. again I am not asking you to understand... I am just trying to give you some insight to what we all face in this social arena of America...where one must be male or female... that does not exist for my kind... even after transition.. we are still searching for why we are different... instead we should have been told... it''s who we are and we should be proud of it... I had parents who were so protective of my uniqueness that I was much older before I found that the rest of the world didn't accept me... by then I had found the keys the the doors in my own life... so it didn't matter... as children we are all like giant emotional computers... if anything matters... everything matters... be very careful with yours... I know that's a while off for you... but do not let your dads behavior steal thought moments from you later in life... I know you will do good... keep your chin up and push on through... there is life for you after transition... for him unfortunately... he chose to stop... and Ii guess that is alright... but not destined for greatness any longer...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Komi~ the most supported agenda in society is to be accepting of people "different" than us and not many of the people closest to the siutation and effected by it the most are supportive. We can't be blamed for that either. We try to understand because we want to get to that supportiveness, but not on false pretenses or pretending to be supportive when we are falling apart inside.

I like the honesty that person brought to your group with that comment. It's often OK to be honest as the gay parent coming out or the transgender to his family, but not OK for us to be honest as well. We might hurt someone's feelings, but then our feelings are hurt by something we didn't ask to be a part of and are asked not to have a say afterwards as well.It reaks of hypocrisy.

I completely agree with you about other women not having the girly experiences that transgenders miss out on. I didn't have those experiences as a girl- didn't want some of them either. It is a stereotype of a girls' life.

Supposedly they missed out on girly things but my dad wasn't at my wedding to walk me down the aisle or my college graduation or other rite of passages dads are involved in so I missed out too.

It helps to read Jeanine's words because she has been the most open trans I've talked to and we may get together with others who are trying to figure it all out and are in the same position we are in, but it's the same perspective. We won't understand any more and it will be going around in circles if we don't have a different perspective and that was helpful from Jeanine. Thanks for the comment Komi!


Jeanine...  5 years ago

I really am sorry to present it that way... but I have not every met a transgender that didn't talk about those imaginary dreams... we all(MF) try to position ourselves as knowing when none of us do... I appreciate you girls actually telling the truth... that's what I'm trying to do... SRS is the solution for some... but for older trans... I believe it is a lie that has been propagated upon my kind..

I feel like I stepped into it but didn't mean to... I wished many times not to have this disorder... but just because the therapist say I have it... doesn't mean I have to act like everyone else... and that's why we need both all the different opinions we can stand... right now there is one... it goes like this... "oh sweetie you'll feel much better after you transition"... I'm paying attention and most I meet are not happier... except when they say the words... I am very impressed with you girls... thx for letting me share...


jeanine 5 years ago

With all that I have said... there are still days one can't explain... no matter how logical it is to stay in this body... the transgenders nature is to transition... and it's tragic in a lot of ways... the relentless confusion is just that... confusing on a paramount level... I wished i could say I have a handle on it but some days you just feel like you are wasting your time as well as everyone elses... seems no matter how one gets there... we always end up at the sales of womens cloths... is just seems right... and that's very disheartening sometimes...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

jeanine~ i appreciate, very much, giving your perspective. I can't be the person to tell anyone what is right or wrong, although I'm sure I have at some time or many times. I can't imagine having a feeling that pulled you strong and by some standards you shouldn't feel that way. I can't imagine someone telling me how I should want to be and even having an inner conflict at times because of it. THanks again Jeanine...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Just trying to keep it real... I am much better today... one must weigh what will be best for all involved... it's the children like yourself that brings the best and worst from us... the best in that those like myself...discover the real meaning of trans... and those who choose themselves... the love we take for our selves... is also the love we lose from others... the delicate balance is when the love from others becomes less than the love we have for our selves... then the tragedy begins... the brain over rules the mind or tries to change the mindset of reason... like a brainwash almost... a continuing drip from the faucet until it becomes maddening... the lie is that we will be able to get away from it... and transition is so exciting at first that it is a success... but as time passes we realized we are still not fully there... so the sadness returns... the up side is at this moment is when some of us realize trans is something other than being the woman we are inside... it is a gift to be adored but handled with the utmost care... as beautiful as diamonds but as dangerous as plutonium... life and death on the same plate... so to speak... which one will we choose is up to us... and the main reason I think the medical community has done such an injustice to my tribe... they are well intended I'm sure... they service the glitch instead of seeing the gift... it's not their fault it's our for not being deeper more caring transsexuals...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I haven't been on hubpages for a while, and just read your comment. I can see how the mind can play tricks on you when you have to make such crucial decisions. I can even compare it to myself as a mother. There is a struggle for me to let go of my litle girl enough so that she learns to be more independent, but I still want her to be my baby, which will never stop. One choice is better for her and one is better for me and feels so natural to me, but it's not the right way.

The way you explain and look at being a trans is beautiful and I know I've told you before but it's really the only way I've been able to understand my dad better.

I think many trans with kids have to put an emotional wall up to protect themselves. Kids and parents know each other the best beyond what is seen or talked about, they read into each other more so it's hard for the trans to face such a critic (not literally, but you get the point).


Jeanine 5 years ago

Thanks Laura for responding... and yes you are right... it's a lot like being a mom... I'm told... full transition to me is today's way trying to make me fit into a binary system...which is tragic in my view... my kids were always a great motivator for me to stay in this body... although the hormones have helped immensely... they seem to arrest the behavior of the brain, making it feel as if one is doing something to address the challenge... I am so glad that our conversations have shown some light on your quest to find your dad.. he's still in there you know... she just has not been allowed to come out for all of her life so she is afraid, if she lets you see him... he'll make her go back into where ever it was he was keeping her... the reality is... trans are people with so much love that they can not be held by one gender... the problem arises when our dads try and make us less than we are by being a guy... we all are guys you know... but we are more than that also... there is another child there beside us as we grow... like a twin sister... she is there... and is so beautiful... but if take that child and lock her away until she is grown and older... she becomes angry and hurt and unfortunately twisted in many ways... my life is different because my folks allowed both children to be healthy... no they did not let me be a girl... but when I was and couldn't help it... they didn't even let on that it might be a problem... therefore I never had the condemnation most have had... we talked and if I was more her than him on a certain day... it didn't matter... they would say something like... hey you are not quite yourself today and we'd laugh... open arms loved me anyway... if I was myself... that's what they called it... they were overjoyed... be a good mom... it's the most important thing in the entire world... and be a good Dad... it's the most important thing in the world... for your kind and oh it must be wonderful to be you... you get to be one of those... and your lovely man gets to be the other... for me.. it's wonderful also... for I get to be both... so sometimes I children have two mom's then sometimes they have a mom and a dad... god knows there are advantages to having a wife... everybody needs one... she always mind and I'm always hers... although she is much better than I could ever be... but I will continue to learn as I live my life of beauty...


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izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I know my dad had lots of issues with his dad so I wonder how you think trans with not supportive family differ than someone like you? You say your family was supportive, but many aren't. How do you think this effects the transtition for a trans. I know it is excruciating for many to remain in the male body, but it is equally hard to leave behind family if necessary. Why is the pull to be male to female (for those trans) so much more than being with family? I know you have had things go differently but I just wonder what is so urging. I feel like I left who I was before having my daughter and sometimes I get a glimpse of the old me but I can never go back. part of my brain is always concerned with her. I'm a mom first then a woman second- or so it feels that way. But trans are a woman first , then a parent. Not particularly you, ebcause you stress the importance of family, but for many they do leave behind a family. How can that gender pull be more than the parental pull?


Jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti... it is the million dollar question... my friends who know me call what I have... "TS light" which means I am not as affected by it as they are... yet they realize I have had a different path and are very sweet to me and are aware I know as much as any of them about the emotional test.. now I do not know the pain of srs but share the pain of waking with her each day... I say pain because she is instantly afraid when she realizes she is not in a body of her own, when we are children... it's an absolute joy because your imaginary friend is so real you are never lonely... you play the typical games she loves dolls... he loves football and trucks... as one gets older he has support from her when he does things that are impressive to girls and she has support when she needs a hug or she cries... the most beautiful thing about being trans is you are self contained... many therapist write this behavior off as the child that is extremely lonely... yet I have lived this way all my life and know it does exist... psychosis or not it's very real for me... as both genders begin to be aware of others and peer pressure begins as early as before pre-k... the trans never sees it coming... at this point if your child happens to be trans and you've placed her or him in the social structure with others, which we all do... not only is the child getting your views but also every other parents view by way of how and what they are teaching their child about acceptance... you know this... it's in therapy 101 and it's where children like you often say to the therapist oh come on you are clueless to how this has affected me...as the trans continues to grow one gender suffers unless detected early on as what it actually is and the most well meaning parent can have catastrophic hurt for the child packed neatly in their back pack along with their lunch and never even know it... she notices what all the other little girls are eating and then notices he got the sandwich he likes, the snack and the toy he wanted and she got nothing... so even at a very young age she cannot understand why even her mother would do this to her... as the TS ages one gender begins to feel the neglect... for MF it's her so she becomes shy and willing goes into hiding... the parents are please because little johnny seems to be more like they think he should be... thank God... right...lol.. here's the kicker though... we all know if one does not use the left hand and only uses the right the left will eventually atrophy... with the Trans... he continues to exercise with her totally, so she does not go away and continues to get stronger... she all the while is becoming more distressed because the parents, her parents expect her to be out of site and she begins to notice they want her to be quite and not bother her brother, all the while her brother who loves her immensely trying to explain to her he is sure when they reach puberty they will be normal and it will be like when they were children and she can come out and play like before they met the others... and yes we are aware by then that it's us against them... because she is still growing mentally... her emotions are beginning the blender stage... where everything is shaken up everyday... she begins to feel unloved, unwanted, unappreciated and most all the suicidal thoughts are coming from her...she becomes uncontrollable for him and because she begins to embarrass him at parties, when he is not consciously thinking of boy things, she'll wonder over to the girls and pick up the dolls and be playing... girls just wanna have fun un... oh girls just wanna have fun un...lol... after a few times like this, they begin to be at odds within themselves... he feels the pressure from his friends and she hates boys...so she doesn't care and along here she's not to sure about her stupid brother and notices how icky his damn body is... it smells and he does strange things that scare her... bugs and spiders mostly... although she is amazed he can pee outside... she wonders why any human being would ever do that... mommy seems to have a better handle on that as well as almost everything else in the world and that part he agrees with... they are both still massively in love with mom... dad is great, he gives us chocolate cake... lol... yet she wonders why he doesn't hold her and kiss all over her like the other fathers do... he is rally the only one that hurts her like that... and she doesn't understand... her closest friend her brother doesn't even notice... he says aw that's just daddy... she cries a lot right here and her brother hates that... by the time puberty comes and she is not wearing panties and training bra, she is beside herself,inconsolable, raging at times, and finally the temper takes her to the tears once again... he can't stand that side of himself so he begins to push her further down inside the place he has built for her to stay until everyone welcomes her with open arms... he is a good brother but doesn't understand why his parents would do this to her but can't stop his own life to tend to her... without professional help at this point she begins to twist mentally... believing no one loves her and she just wants to die... he begins spending early waking hours everyday helping her just get out of bed... to her he is the only one on earth that even cares at all... a terrible existence for a young girl... and just like that she is on another path... soon he cannot support her without help from his parents or someone he trust.. she is becoming a basket case and finally around high school he has begun to fine other girls he likes more than her... she is devastated but likes talking to the girls while he is dating them, even kissing a girl seems a relief... she notices he lets her do some of the talking... and wonders why the girls all say how differently her brother treats them that any other guy they know... the more he dates the more she likes it... not the kissing so much, but she will put up with that just to talk o another girl... His dates all think he's the coolest because he knows so much about fashion and hair and makeup... not like the other boys... she actually thinks it funny at times... he has even started to notice her knowledge of girls thing now and she doesn't mind him using her in this way... at least he is talking with her more and more like when they were younger... and for the first time in many years... she feels needed...then the worst happens for him... his sister has been exploring more and more with his dates and finally she has sex with his girl friend.. and because he is to afraid to, she brings her set of rules... he lets her explore and she does very well because she knows about soft and tender... and because he lets her roam freely at this stage she becomes very good at caressing his girl... she finally goes for the prize... has sex with a girl... but does what's natural to her... orally taking care of business... they are both taken back... especially when the girlfriend does what's natural to her and takes hold of his boy equipment and uses that... the trans at this time is in La La land... neither have ever thought of how strange this would feel... both are excited and he is overjoyed... she is fine with him enjoying it as long as he will let her be with the girl... talking afterwards is so important that she'll let him do anything at this point... the girlfriend is clueless the the drama that is unfolding... for the trans they are both coming of age... he saying finally I can be a man... and she saying finally I've found a place he can't keep me locked away...they boh are pleased with themselves and can continue like this for years... the sensitive man... lol... he seems to know exactly what to say and do... he should she preps him on everything... lol... after the marriage it turns nasty... he wants more me time with his wife and she wants to be free from him... the split continues from this point... and how he handles her and how she handles him determines the outcomes... so goes the life of a trans without family support... by the time they are older... he has hurt her in so many ways that she


Jeanine 5 years ago

no longer cares... and if he has denied her time with her own children... it's pointless... then on the other hand you have some Trans that do not have the mothering instinct and that's another case altogether... my view of those guys are... they are guys who want to be women instead of true trans... but there is a great controversy going on in our community right now about that... we'll see how it turns.. out... again thanks so much for letting me express my side of the gift...


Jeanine 5 years ago

for me because I did have the opportunity to bond with my children... I have a job that allowed me to be there at home with them from birth... I could never give up my family... but for those trans who played only the male roll in their families lives... and I don't mean dressing up with their daughter like your dad... the result is often tragic... when she finally breaks from her brother and if he has been abusive in keeping her locked up... she will try everything she can do to kill him off... I'm sure you have seen this behavior... again part of the criteria for real life test for transsexuals are determined by men... not women... my own belief is there would be fewer transitions to the female body if we as trans had to live as mothers not just what we think of as women... you change that baby every day for a month, feel him, and try and guess why he's still crying, clean the house, make all the meals, do the shopping, have everything like he wants it when he comes home at night, making sure to be beautiful and sexy and wanting to be taken whenever and wherever he wants all the while never getting enough sleep... I say if you still want to be a in a womans body that you have not had for most of your life... go ahead and knock yourself out big lady friend friend... I'll kiss your ass if you think you can do that better than your wife... can we all say idiot... I am trans... not stupid..


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ what a story I read the first comment you left a couple fo days ago and have had time to think about it. This is everything I wanted to understand you are like gold in the area- precious and valuable. I know this is one thing children of trans want so badly, besides getting everything back to normal,is to understand. For what has been happening all your life, we are hit with it almost overnight- in my case literally.

For me, I was a girl, but a tomboy type and while I understand a child having two parts and preferences to them (I went through this too) I think it's normal, for me at least. I see my daughter the same way- being batman one day and Cinderella the next. i just go with it. I liked girl and boy things growing up and resisted being girly especially during puberty. I hated getting a bra, etc. So I struggled with accpeting parts of my gender too. I'm not sure if all kids do this, but I feel all woman now-lol.

For trans it must be a stronger pull. I've heard a trans long time ago on TV say they remember being a little boy and thinking how useless their male part was.

There is just so much variety. I haev to say I see the struggle withing my dad. He is very nurturing towards me then like a flash, it gets to a certain point, and he shuts it off and retreats. Maybe fear, old habits of going back and forth between male and female tendencies- I don't know... There was a time when my dad shut off from me for so long- after I was about 12, becoming a woman.

You certainly understand motherhood and you probably understan that aspect of being a woman far better than any trans (or man for sure-lol). I can;t tell you enough how easy it was to simply be a woman before having kids. totally different!


Jeanine 5 years ago

The reality for me is... I have yet to meet any late transition Trans, that doesn't act like a man at times... it's because we are... again...our uniqueness lies in being both not being one or the other... so look closely next time he is very nurturing... generally it stops exactly where it stopped when he was a man... because... fill in the blank... but you know what I'm saying over here... part of it is fear... but part of it is he is still insecure and that's the saddest of all...

you are very kind to say I know anything about being a mom... but I really know absolutely nothing about it... except it is a ton of work... no make that about 5 tons of work... I know if we all had to service that little baby it would separate the the guys from the girls in an instant... thanks for the read... sorry it was so long but you ask...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

good points, pertains to my dad for sure. Trust me, I wish I could get my husband to realize half the work I do with our daughter, the way that you describe it. He really gets me with that annoying phrase; "so what did you do all day?"


Jeanine 5 years ago

One day it's coming... I do love women so... the bravest of the brave... the most fun loving... they are great dancers and singers... lol... there is a Dr Anne Lawrence in SF who got into a lot of trouble for saying we are supposed to be two... it didn't go over very well with the community... when to group tonight and told them about your writing so hopefully you'll get some more opinions... they are good girls just still hurting from having to play the guys roles all their lives... and I think that's the difference for me... I didn't have to be the guy always so it's not so important for me to not be him some now... moderation is the key for Trans living... as far as your husband ever seeing the work you do... good luck on that one... bout the same odds as getting him to wax his entire body... ain't gon happen... lol... but I do so enjoy men for what they are... they make me laugh and want to giggle... make me swoon at times... even if it is because they need a bath...lol... their embrace is believable and that's one of their finest qualities... a lot of them are honest and I like that... some are unflappable... and some are courageous in love... so will he ever know that you clean the toilets... no... will He need you when he is hurting or joyous... yes and that's worth while... Izetti... you are a good writer... I really enjoy all of your stuff...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

THanks Jeanine~ what a wonderful comment here. You have some good points about men. My husband and I were just discussing our differences and I was looking at it from a perosnality perspective when a lot of it is a gender difference. I didn't really realize it until reading your comment. I appreciate a lot of the same some stuff from men.

Perhaps what gets to the trans community is people who think they understand and can fully comprehend their world. Maybe the Dr Anne made the statement matter-of-factly and the truth is nobody understands anybody unless they have actually been there or are there- it's true. I used to get irritated when people woudl tell me they have arthritis pain, BUT they have no idea what my Rheumatoid Arthritis pain is like and I wish they wouldn't even pretend. I know most mean well so I leave it be.

That's a lot of the reason I have so many questions and great discussions with you. I don't believe my dad is like some other trans- he is a lot of both and even seems comfortable most of the time with both and you are the first I've talked to who knows what I am talking about concerning that. Everything about my dad was puzzling because I hardly remember my mom when i was a kid- that's how much I wanted to be like my dad. So of course when I found everythign out, I questioned who I was as a person, but on the good side I really began to be my own person instead of following in his foot steps.


Jeanine ... 5 years ago

The Doc I referred to is post op... so she knows a few things... lol... you are right in that none of us are the same... like the garden.. all flowers are beautiful... but have different scents...the reason I stay in the community is there are many like me... but have been run off by those who are into surgery... I do enjoy HRT and need it but can not see how I would be more if I am less, if you know what I mean... we are still at the frontier of understanding... your dad did you a great favor in allowing you to be you... maybe that's door you can enter with the new creature he is becoming... it's only new to you and the rest of the world... the more you see him as all.. incluessive the more common ground there will be... are you doing Remicade for your arthritis pain... my wife has a different type but it's a nasty thing... to live with... never question who you are... that's how we all end up in this place over here... someone told most of us we were wrong... when we are just different... I like different but I've had life time of being... so I might have had a head start... lol.. anyway... if it had not been for your dad and the crazies you experienced I would have never met this pleasant writer chick... lol.. sorry... over there where ever you are... and you very readable so we get what we are supposed to... Happy Easter dear... I know that little one is looking for the bunny to come and see her... I think about how simple that statement is... and wonder why so many father were so afraid to say it... to the strange little boys who lived in their homes... Trans... is painful... for all of us... in some ways or another... but life... oh my... life is so worth living... in any form...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ thanks for the nice words. I try to eat well for my arthritis and I take a steroid medication, Prednisone. It still effects my hands the most, so every word I type on here is a symbol to me, I can overcome. I'll keep on doing it as long as I can.

If my dad hadn't changed I wouldn't have started writing again and abandon the way of life I was trying to live to be more like him, which was all about intellect and money. That's just not me. He would never admit he didn't know the answers to something and I am opposite, searching the world for questions. I love to learn and I love that the best and richest topics, have no answers. You've taught a little of that to me actually. There is no cimple explanation on topics that vary from person to person. I love your view on life- your words stick with me.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Good for you... we take remicade... do you know about replicators...they are meds that replicate health if you are healthy... but the danger is they replicate sickness if you thake them while you are sick... adult stem cell research has made new strides so check with your guy... are someone younger... they are discovering everyday now...America... if the press would learn to be honest and do a little work they would realize we are greater than we have ever been... any way God has a wonderful way of putting us on our way...he even made it easy and called it the way...lol... you are so much more readable than any of the others I've found on here... your topics always make me laugh and laugh... and then I am intrigued by the approach... very easy to love you... you know people who change things... usually don't see the other way and so they find a way to do it themselves... I have not read that hub on writing yet but need to... you are very fresh for me and I love that... there's nothing wrong with smart money... we all need it... but one gets a glimpse of what life might be by simply living it... not planning it... he road of knowledge is narrow... and those who take the path will never die... because they are always learning... those of us who pretend to know... well you get to pretend... and that's tragic for any of us right... when you say "I love to learn and I love that the best and richest topics, have no answers." what if the best and richest have many answers... I love that part... for with this God was the word... and if the word is God... those who understand words are close to God... if we can learn to pay attention... the word changes us by the year, the month... it changes us every week, day, hour and minute... and if we learn to pay as close as we possible can, every moment if different... to live no moments the same... is the genius of being involved with a God... leaving one pining for the love shared so freely... you are very kind to say ... they stick with you... I talked a friend in the trans community today and began the long task of educating another... so one day... when surgery is only a bad dream... we will be whole again as a tribe..."two spirited" those who know both sides of the humanity of man and womankind... a creature stronger than a man to lead and protect in war... has a softer twin... so slight in her delivery... hummingbirds try to sit softly on her chest... such an impressive writer you are... I love your topics...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I think you got my meaning better than I did when I said topics that have no answers, but what you said is what I meant- those with many answers. I am a quick book learner but have always enjoyed learning from people more. If my body would have let me I would have continued waitressing or bartending- it was fun to listen to others, either being put in the position to offer advice or listen to them or the opposite and get advice from them. Actually when I worked in my last actual job,Human Resources, I had somehow established that type of reptoire with the workers there too. It's simply rewarding.

I was thinking today (uh-oh you may say)but I wondered what the emotional effects of being trans is when one gets surgery and everything quickly (like my dad did), but knew all their life they wanted it- compared to someone who "practices" living their life as the opposite, takes hormones, and gently eases their way into transition. Do you think there is a difference, emotionally? Just on my mind. Some trans view the "two spirited-ness" as a curse or burden while others accept it and live with it easily and gracefully. I wondered why the different emotions, and maybe they vary from day to day for everyone.

I wish I could find this story I got when I was a kid in school (it intrigued me before I ever knew anything about my dad). I found a link to the story, but it seems shorther than what I remember. I always loved this story as a kid. Here's the link: http://coe.k-state.edu/about/download/profdev/X%20...


jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti... you are in my territory... I believe all of us who wait become who we are...destined to be... you've all heard some of the wisdom of our tribe...your kind even adopting our words... good things come to those who wait...my electrologist was my saving grace... when I wanted to go quickly she convinced me to wait... I figured since she was very prominent in our community and had done most of the the famous and not so famous faces in the south... I would listen... and I did and am forever grateful for her knowledge... I am on hormones, and androgen blockers, functioning as both... they are not for anyone other than for my own well being... I believe if one moves quickly in transition... there is always the possibilities of mistakes... I believe in my case because I had a family and a wife later that held me through this... giving me the opportunity to explore who I really was and am and could be... I discovered the beauty of the gift of being two spirited... my kind are very delicate... like the rose that only blooms once a season... and if you did not know this you would cut it... because of it's beauty... in an effort to show more and share more... never realized it would be gone forever...the old ones say... "no one can be more by being less"... so if one wants a bumpy ride and I do so love a good roller coaster... one takes the operation into ones on hands... refraining from support and those who would hold you... or one can take a slower ride until one gets used to it... allowing you to not throw up on everyone along with you... you know my beliefs are that the well meaning Medical community... have emaciated my tribe... at a time when we were to come forth and help all the world... we have been subjected to the arena or circus... the freaks that we are to the world is not who we were meant to be... there were great days in our history... with the many kings and queens and leaders of great nations... and there we be days for us again... there were no therapist, priest or doctors more powerful than my tribe... only we could tel you why and what might happen if you took this road or that...... and our relationship between God and man... the transsexual who is not connected to God... is only connected to His body... if you are no longer depended upon for your spiritual knowledge then all you have is your body... if one can nor warn the world of spiritual change... one become obsessed with physical change... beginning the picture... we are the mirror for the human race... so even if we are no longer held in high esteem... no longer asked what is happening to this world... we will still proclaim it even if we have to show the rest of man and womankind how ugly and brutal you are treating your fellow man... I realize the heaviness I have brought and for that I will forever ask your forgiveness... we are not like any of you here on this wonderful planet you call home...


jeanine 5 years ago

I know that sounds other worldish... and I'm sorry... but for us is was other worldish... a life of where nothing was denied us... think of it this way... if you had a tribe of people who had innate abilities in music or mathematics... and everyone knew... but in the name of making everyone more equal it was decided to stop this tribe... for what ever reason... it's just an hypothesis anyway... so for years the gifted children were never allowed to do math or music... the old one were killed off and no one allowed to tell the children about their gifts...after centuries the stories subside... and after a few hundred more years the gifts are forgotten... that's what I believe happened to my tribe... denied access to use... soon forgotten... except deep in the soul of my tribe... and when the gifts begin to reappear... no one has kept the knowledge of what we were... the keeper of the fire... has not been existent for hundreds of years... so when we reappear as children... knowing what we are... the people closest to us... our parents are clueless to help us... this time there are those who tell us... we are freaks... we are bad... we are less... then the worst.. there are those who say... but we can help... we can help you become one...listen closely... every trans is told to become one... to be whole... is what you want...Izetti... are you starting to understand... we were great as two... why would we want to be one... ahhhhh there it is... to be like the others...


jeanine 5 years ago

Sorry... I am passionate about my life ...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ yep, I do understand and the way I undersand it a little more is when you put it in the way of a gifted tribe having their abilities supressed. also within our history I believe a very normal and natural thing existed as two-spirited. Makes sense. I realize society is like a bubble and acts as a mask to how we view things- the right and wrong, good and bad. Sometimes it's hard to tell what is your own opinion and what you've been overly exposed to in the media and society- I get that.

My dad was an atheist and oddly enough has actually mentioned his belief in God on occasion since he got his change several years ago. I found that interesting and maybe he is separating his body from his spiritual side instead of focusing on his body so much.

Thanks for an interesting comment- always a pleasure Jeanine.


Jeanine 5 years ago

I'm sure most of us have OCD... and can always benefit with meds to help... I went through the spiritual thing so you might understand where we fit... in history... if more trans actually knew where we came from... there might be more acceptance of us... it is intriguing that he would notice his spiritual side... it is so deeply ingrained in us that it... like the twin sister inside will over take him as he ages... for me the only way to retain some sanity, is to deal with both... what we have talked about mostly is the spirit and body... but the emotional sides are wide... of course there is the tears and mood swings from the mones... but there are moments of tenderness in the mist of intimacy that are over whelming... moments of satisfaction that are geared to ones partner that are totally different than what I have read and heard from many guys I know... to find pleasure in pleasing another is quite extraordinary for a man... to have the patience to wait and watch as she enjoys herself, is a very nice thing... I think being able to put him away as one lays down in fields of pleasure... is the most extraordinary thing about the intimacy with ones wife... each moment caressed with an eagerness but not hurried... no running for the finish line... not caring who wins the race... more intent upon the running... yes I am love... and this gift of two spirits was meant for it... built for intimacy... a slower pace although I'm sure... well I'm not sure but have been told sometimes women need to be taken... I tried that some when I was younger... being a real man...lol... it was the most hurtful thing I could have ever done... to lord over a woman is wrong... yet we all make mistakes when we are that age... to be equal in the bed is like reading your favorite book... knowing each page is there to be savored... astonishing in that you have the opportunity to become one... the most tragic thing to me is... most wives of transsexuals are so turned off by the site that they run from the bedroom... so finally I get to answer your question... is it better to ease into transition... I say yes...because one gets to learn from the one we love the best... she is the most beautiful, most clever, most wonderful human being the transsexual will ever know... truly a female led relationship


Charlotte 5 years ago

I couldnt read through all the comments because I've spent the last hour looking at articles online, looking for help really on understanding transsexuals... But the few that i did read through all seemed really insightful and it really is comforting to know that there are lots of people and familys that have or are still going through the same thing. I'm only a teenager, and when I was maybe ten or eleven my father told me he wanted to become a woman, a transsexual but I didnt understand what it meant, that was the last time I saw him and now seven years later I have only just made contact via email.

He tried to see us after his surgery but I was in shock and really did reject him when he told me because I just didnt understand it, but i was also ridden with guilt since it happened that I HAD rejected him and although I was quite literally paralysed with fear at the thought of having to see him as a woman I was so upset with myself for not being able to accept him and as I have become more mature and have a better understanding I realise now that he was going through something that I just couldn't at that age.

The guilt of rejecting him/her was I think what lead me to make contact. Our emails have been superficial and I just have so many questions so many emotions to express to someone who I really don't know as a person and I feel the hostility in the emails as I did in the one phonecall i actually answered and said hello to him using his male name when he/she corrected me I hung up. He called the house phone over a period of about a year he had the operation I always hung up once he said hello, and sometimes he was just crying or silent on the other end. I can't even go into all the emotions I've felt, betrayl, rejection perhaps all that i felt quite selfishly in the situation and maybe reading this you feel I wasn't a good person to someone who was clearly so distressed by my actions and maybe even lonely.

I could go into every detail about the phone calls and hang ups, the name change, the hints, the makeup, the emails. And im not sure what i'm looking for by writting all this perhaps just a place to vent about it all seeing as its such a fragile topic in my houshold it is actually unspoken of and the slightest mention people clamp up. My mother especially who was really hurt by the situation.

This hub was really helpful even just reading the comments and perspectives on it, and I'm so glad there are internet article like this to help people understand it all. I still don't understand it and I have no idea what the future will hold with my relationship with my father or 'her' place in my life.

This is the first time I've ever looked up the topic. Seeing as up until recently I was truly in denial about it all and it was really soooo helpful.

- Charlotte


Randipilot 5 years ago

Izetti and Jeanine

I just found this hub in the last couple of weeks, and what a blessing it is to me. As a M/F trans with a wife and teenage children that i love very much, both of your thoughts have given me the vision of how I and my family can move forward with this most challenging "issue".

Izetti, your insight as the child of a trans person have been so enlightening, and have caused me to do some soul searching about my self-centerness at time and is great food for thought. Further your openness about your feeling upon learning of your fathers condition, will help me continue to be a good father, and help me relate to my children and there potential issues and struggles. Bless you for your willingness to share, and my heart hurts for you and what you have been through.

Jeanine, your model is so beautiful! I finally, found in written words how my story and life have been, and a very "healthy" way of viewing who and what I am. I have great parents, but given the culture of the day and the community I grew up in, there was no way I could talk about it, with anyone. The first time I talked with anyone about being trans was with my wife/best friend several years ago. This conversation was brought about by a move, when she found my stash of things and she confronted me. After a long tearful conversation, she was sacred to death but was willing to keep working at our relationship. In the few years since, we have had our struggles, but we are making it. People thought and think of me as a man's, man, retired military officer... I kept her well hidden for many years, and over the last several years I have had even less opportunity to let her out, due to fear and because I just didn't have a healthy model to be me. Your model provides me a very real solution, that I have started working with my wife on, she is supportive and sees hope in it as well.

Jeanine, I'd love to have more conversation with you (Izetti, your welcome to hear it as well), but in a less public forum. Please let me know if either or both of you are willing.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Hi Randi... it's Izetti's page here and there is not a lot of traffic...on this particular hub... so I suggest we start here and see where it leads... besides she has already done the lion share of the work... we have been public in our discussions in hopes of helping others like yourself... to see there are other avenues of expression... the other challenge in a public forum is one must be more focused on the whole instead of the personal so much... does that make sense... I certainly hope so... with that being said ... it will always be up to Izetti... my life is good.... I want to keep it that way for the moment... I'm sure if we arrive at another place we will all know it... very nice to meet you ... and hears the first lesson... she is always right... always when it comes to being a girl... always... got me...lol... she would be your wife... Izetti... or any other GG... so with that in mind... let's begin...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... there are many like us.. but we have not had an outlet to discuss anything other than the norm... that's funny huh... for it is an accepted stance that our tribe has taken with the Doctors of the day... and that's really what the are... the doctors of the day... because there was a time when we were the doctors of the day... let us know what you are thinking... have you done anything to relieve the pressure of having to deal with the oppressive ways of our society... Let Izetti or myself know where you are bound and where you want to end up... so many of us do not have a plan so we adopt the plan that the doctors give us... dangerous to say the least... Hey Izetti... hope you are having a wonderful day with that baby of yours... oh my she's growing up... I bet with a girl you want to keep them a baby all their lives... with boys... oh my... you want them to quit tearing everything up... I asked my grandson what he wanted to play,,, he said ... knock down the baby... which would be his younger cousin... pray for me...lol...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Jeanine and Izetti, I'm ok here, so here I go. I haven't really had any outlet other than what I have found in books and on the internet, and that has been of little use in that I don't want to destroy what I have in the way of family and close relationships. There is nothing more important to me than my wife and kids and beyond that my parents and siblings. I can truly say that life has been good to this point but for me there has always been this issue that has torn at me. The internal struggle is a daily thing, and over the last several years, I have really struggled with internal peace and what I am. I am a devote and committed Christian, and have been my entire life but the medical and physiological communities current approach to this only serve to create greater conflict on this front for me.

Just a little more background. I have two children, a daughter who just finished her freshman year in college and a son in tenth grade. I've been married to my best friend for over 25 years now and love her dearly. prior to our marriage, she had some clues, but I never really tipped my hand. Throughout our marriage, I have tried to be sensitive to her fears and needs, but as I said in my first post didn't really admit the depth of the issue until about 4 years ago. Further, my ability to openly deal with this has been made more difficult as I was a military officer until recently, and dealing with it in any public way would have been devastating to my career and thus my family. Since my retirement, I have actively been seeking a way to address the struggle.

Jeanine, you asked if I had a plan. the short answer at this time is no. But as I am sure you know, the short answer is really just the start. I want to be there for my children and grandchildren when they come along, I want to be there for my wife, I want to remain sane, and to do all those things, I need to find a way to be more fully her, but still not kill him off... At present I dress as her part time and I dress gender neutral wearing both male and female clothes, but this is like putting a band aide on arterial bleeding. As for where I want to be, first and foremost I want to be at peace, within myself, with God, with my family and with the community at large. I know big strokes. Beyond that, I want to be able to dress as I feel and like, I want to be able to relate to the world in either/both gender roles (for now) as society stereotypes and as different situations cry out for one or the other to be dominate. I don't currently feel as though I need to "fully" transition, but things like facial and body hair make it difficult on the girl side. I have not taken hormones or androgen blockers, but I think/feel it that they might provide some relief. I would like to have breasts. When we had our children, I was actually jealous of my wife, in that she got to breastfeed... I also often wished, when our children were younger, that I could be a stay at home mom/parent, I really would have enjoyed that. When in an earlier post here someone said that the real life test should be, having to be a mother for 3 years prior to transition, I would have been happy to do that, if that is what it takes. So back to the do I have a plan, I am hoping that by dialoging more with both of you here, that I can create a plan that that will keep my priorities in place, and at the same time give me the internal peace in this struggle that I have been searching for over the last 35-40 years.

Some questions that I have are; how have hormones you affected/helped you Jeanine, how have you managed family issue and how might I address them both with my children and with my broader family (both your insights would be greatly appreciated). What are the struggles both internal and with your family and friends... How does the world react to you knowing about you and/or your family...

Thanks so much for taking the time to help. God Bless you both!


Jeanine 5 years ago

Hi Ran... I will wait for Izetti to answer a lot of this but will try and address the things I know about...you are Christian so read habakkuk 2:2 write down the revelation, and make it plain on tablets so that a herald may run with it.For the revelation awaits a given time, it speaks of the end and will not prove false, though is linger, wait on it; it will certainly come and will not delay. If you have time read the first chapter... it's Habbakuk complaint... since you are military you know about discipline and plans, so set one... decide how far is to far to return... and unless it is a suicide mission... you begin to create some of your parameters... I noticed the word struggle continues to appear in your discourse... stop struggling... and the way to do that is to define you are, instead of who you aren't... there are enough in the medical community to tell you who you aren't... don't join them in this case.. it's your heritage they are hoping you consider throwing away... and you can't blame them for being excited... to them it's like discovering a new species... they just want to work... but never forget they want you to be happy like them... lol... learn as much as you can about the inside of you... yoga, prayer, meditation are all forms of self enlightenment... the brain is so amazing it will solve the challenge for you... do not listen to your male side here... he doesn't have the patience... the gift is you can wait because you are also her... so this simple task becomes your matra... or prayer in your case...all the while you are practicing patience, you get to be her... so take the moments and separate them into what you think are his moments and hers... the clothes are just a by product... once you are able to address her then she is really a pleasant girl I'm sure... she can help him also deal with his struggle... because the struggle is his not hers... she loves him more than anyone on the planet... why else would she stay in the closet for this long... We as Trans take poor advice from the medical community... they suggest to be happy, I need to kill him off and become her... when the most tragic thing I could ever do is kill her twin... she loves him, even if he did put her away all of her life, through every pain and hurt is has been there for him... and he wanted to be there for her... but is ashamed that he hasn't been... she still understands and loves him anyway... the hormones are amazing... they are anti depressants for us in a way... the brain will find rest when she thinks you are at least addressing the challenge... find a good Endocrinologist and tell him you just want to feel better... stay at the lowest level you possibly can... he'll ask you how you feel and you three can decide more or less... remember you have to win her trust, she will want breast and bring up that you have not been the most forth coming and honest with her in the past... if you are kind to her here, it can be a difficult journey... and this is where most trans get in trouble, because they are tired of being one the guy, they decide to be one and be the girl... well that's like divorcing your wife after 20 years... it takes you another twenty to get back to the same place with the new wife and realized you are in the same picture, except you have destroyed what you had... remember.... we are two and not registered in the binary system...lol... she will do what you say in the end, she just wants to know you care for her.... the blockers are great also but make one lethargic.. all drugs are dangerous so be careful... to get the drugs, you need to find a good therapist or you may already have one... find one who has no agenda... by that I mean... she doesn't care if you are him or her as long as you are happy... now that being said... somewhere around your house is a very tiny sign... you know the one i'm talking about...."when mama ain't happy...ain't nobody happy"... well that's your wife... and that you said she said she would try and understand... is the main reason for my response to you... without her and her input you would lose the battle... and maybe the war... very dangerous to be two... and you have that sense about you or you wouldn't have made her wait... "respect... just a little bit... everyday" do you know that song... if not learn it and it applies from now on... that would be respect for your wife, family and friends, if they know you at all they know you are strange...lol... so you use that as a tool to teach... not them but yourself, to relax and try to live as you... that's enough for my part until we here from Izetti... hope you are having a good day...


Jeanine 5 years ago

If you are not kind to her here, it can be a difficult journey...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Jeanine,

When seeking a counselor, would recommend staying away from the so called gender experts, or look within their ranks for one that has no agenda? Thanks so much for your caring.


Jeanine 5 years ago

No You must find someone within the ranks... they are the only ones with the experience... you can find one... they will say something like, I'm interested in you finding yourself... hey you'll know... it's fun... use the power luke... and you do have the power to know... we all have it.. it's part of the gift... since we are talking... the best thing you can do for yourself is to get a good electrologist ... the best one or the most famous any way and she did me. is Ahoova Mishael...404 843 9993 Mishael's Electrolysis Center in Atlanta... even if you are not close she will know someone close to you... reserch will show she is best... when you clear the face... you will love it... because you get to see her for the first time.. it is very humbling... it does feminize the face, but you will like that... the wife won't like it as you are going through it... but as you finish... there are benefits for her if you practice anything other than conventional intimacy... it is the one most important thing you can do for yourself... be very careful to not go over board with your joyousness... remember she married a man.. and with good advice you both can win hopefully... if your children do not know... then there is no reason to tell them... your private life is private... the dressing is really a by product of what is missing or how we deal with stress... some people go to Vegas.. to get away... we go to the store... or the closet...lol... your children can will know as you go... and you can hint... I remember I saw a TS with one of my boys after he was grown... and he looked at me... and I said hey don't make fun... you know I've had to deal with that disorder... kids respect you so you don't have to share your entire life... but don't avoid it... just stay to comments like ... I'm trying my best to deal with it... it's alright to let them know you are going to therapy for something personal... when I first started to go to group therapy... I told mine I was going to anger management which was true in my case... but only when they ask where I had been... remember the way I see this is outlaw thought... what an old term... but not as old as our tribe...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... I meant to say... use the force Luke...lol... you can sk the questions I'm sure Izettl would love to hear also... she is so very intelligent and versed in grace... so yu have found a good spot... on the beach so to speak... you must practice both... or Randi will take over... she has been hidden for so long that it becomes obsessive... I will clarify the cloth remark... at another time... be honest and try to keep up the person you built for the wife... I actually like the person I built... so it's one of the reasons that I can do this... I am resolved that he has helped me deal with this world in a way that I never could have ... so I respect him and He respects me... his creator.. plus he pay has always been higher... ouch... I know I'm gonna get it from Izettl on that one... I don't like that fact that as a woman I would be making 69 cents on the dollar... that would leave me one pissed off Trans... lol... sorry but true... I have worn this coat so long... that I like it in certain situations... work mostly... the rest of the time it's me... which is both back and forth... everyone including all my friends, straight gay and trans, know I am wired differently... if one has the fortitude to live ones life then you get to live it...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Jeanine, what really caught my attention here is the way both you and Izetti think and communicate. Just having read your posts, I feel a real kinship, as I like what I have made of life, both of them like it, she just want her chance to run... thanks again for the information and advice. Blessing to you and your family.


Jeanine... 5 years ago

Well you have to ask question now... or is this to painful and to public... you can ask Izettl... but I'm sure she is good with it... she wants our kind to grow and realize we are not alone... I realized today you are right... we have to find a way to communicate ...there were a few things I needed to say and couldn't in this forum... Jeanine is a writing pseudonym for me... so lets ask Izettl how we do it...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Sounds good to me... I'm sure we can figure it out with her help.


Jeanine... 5 years ago

yes but you can lean in, to learn how on this one... I'm over here for a while...lol... I have been blessed... to live my life as two who can become one... it is a gift... and that's the second lesson... you must begin to see that it is a gift...


Randipilot 5 years ago

I do see as a gift, but I am sure I don't fully understand or appreciate the gift. Early on as a preteen, I viewed it as a curse, those night when your deepest pray is that you would wake up in a girl body... I didn't start to even start to comprehend the two in on concept until late twenties or early thirties, but with the information and literature being what it is I struggled to develop the concept and have been since. Your writing and Izetti's perspective have really helped me to grasp it, but as I grasp it I know that there is so much more to learn. At this point I just soaking it in and it feels so good...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Thx for the encouragement.... He answered your prayer... your awake and you are her some right... well I thought about that and realized I should have been a little more specific in my prayer....lol..lol..lol then maybe I would be one... the reality is... many are called but few are chosen... we are chosen... and anyone in our blood line are in covenant with the God of the universe...lol...yeah...lol... that's really true... we were holy men in ancient times... creatives that here Gods voice, read his lips and and have his children to sing His praise... if we are not this we are nothing... Beethoven...I wished I had written that...lol...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Charlotte~

sorry it took me so long to get back to you on here. I wish there was something out there that explained it better for me when I went through this with my dad about 10 yrs ago. THe Internet has some trashy info on it. I was shocked so I put my own version on here and 2 yrs later it has picked up traction. I have started out with the bare bones of understanding and now I have a little more peace, a lof thanks to Jeanine. It helps when you get the "other" perspective. I think we, the kids, just want to understand. We don't know how to approach this with our parent either. And for you it 's been a long time away from communicating with your dad.I took about 2 yrs away form my dad when I found out and after I initially saw him/her. I jsut focus on him/her not as him/her and a person. That being said, some transgenders become differnt people and that's the hardest part to deal with. At first my dad acted overly feminie and wanted me to call her by her female name. Then suddenly after years apart and my own first child being born he wanted to be called dad and grandpa so it has changed. My dad is in his 60's and has relaxed about the male/female thing so I am able to just accept him as a person, as the personality of his own, etc. It will never be the same, but you have to get that out of your head.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

To Jeanine and Randipilot, I will be back later today to repond to your comments. THank you and see you later...


jeanine 5 years ago

Happy Mothers day Izettl... hope you are doing well... hope this was the best day ever...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Randi~ I've been keeping up with the conversation between you and Jeanine and really thinking about all this. Your position in the military sounds familiar to my dad who worked as a government negotiator, a respected citizen and boss. I do remember one thing he told me was that the more he held back one (female) the harder it was on him and he would falsely be more of the other to compensate. Allowing yourself to be a little of both and to find that balance (easier said that done, I'm sure) is key. My dad held back a lot because of his profession and being a father. I had no idea how much he was holding back and that's why the complete transition caught me off guard- there was no phasing period for me to get accustomed or to bond with his female counterpart. So first and foremost, keep your kids generally informed. As kids, we want security (even as adult children). Maybe you were once a kid and you overheard your parents talking about things and that's how you knew what's going on, but you felt helpless because you were never directly involved in changes taking place- that's how I felt. It happened during my parents divorce, then with my dad's change- I was blindsided, perhaps parents think this is a way to protect their children from tough situations, but it makes us feel more distant.

There really isn't any good info on all of this on the Internet, books, etc. That's why I created this space to talk freely and understand everything a little more for myself. Jeanine has been a big help with all of this and describes this, the transgender, in the most natural way. Modern medicine is not favorable toward mind-body connections and essentially this is what you are dealing with. I have a chronic illness and have learned modern doctors do not generally dea with people as a whole. You must enlist the best team of people for yourself. My dad did not seek traditional counseling, however, he did have several emails between himself and a transgendered (male to female) counselor. Can't remember her name though, but she is widely known in her profession. I might do some research to figure it out. Anyway,I also know my dad has switched several doctors (OB and others) to find the perfect fit for him. This seems like it was really important to him and I can understand. I have a "condition" not at all of the transgender sort, but rather arhritic and since it will quite possibly effect me my whole life I have switched doctors several times to find the right one for me. So I can understand wholeheartedly the importance of that.

One thing Jeanine was tlking about and knows more than me is how to transition enough to be happy. I can't tell you anything about that. My dad did it very quickly after he retired, but he was is not married nor was I very young and still dependent on him, as your kids are still fairly young.

I would think your wife and kids just want to be involved a little at least and the security aspect of it may be knowing how far you want to take it and what is enough to make you happy. Since my dad was spending lots of money on his designer clothes and female attire, my mom and I both felt slighted like we must not deserve that same extravagence. My mom felt betrayed to know how much was being spent on his stuff when she was wearing plain stuff to stay within budget. Since you are married, money spent on he extra female things also needs to be discussed. Again, to let your family in on it. As family, we just want to know the end point- do you plan on being ultimately fully transitioned? How fast in which you proceed is comfortable with your wife? We want you (transgenders) to be happy- you are in a family and family generally wants the best, and yet not to fall by the wayside as you fulfill his needs. My parents were married 18 yrs and still my dad was uncommunicative about the depth of what he needed, thus his hiding it as you did until you moved and your wife found things. For me, it wasn't so much about my dad being a transsexual as it was that I felt distant to him because all that he kept from me about his intentions and his changes.

I know for my dad, the hormones have balanced him out. I would (in my non-professional opinion) strongly suggest them as Jeanine said.

Because of society, transgenders and all in between, have felt the need to hide this. And ironically, because you hide it, society doesn't know what to do with it now how to react. There isn't an easy way to do it if you have a job, family, live in a community who knows you etc. Perhaps the single most helpful thing, besides Jeanine, is that thinking of my dad as a person and personality, what we would be to each other in the spirit form, is who he is to me now. He is no longer name, a position in society, a man or woman. I wasn't able to view it this way until I realized my little girl (3 yrs old) saw him this way. often the healthiest psychology and viewpoint is that of a young non-biased or conformed child.

Also, if your are looking into "help". counseling etc for yourself, maybe try and have someone in mind shoudl your wife or children need some help with some of this. Just a thought. Hope you are able to read and understand all of this. I apologize for not getting back sooner but myself and my daughter have been sick. Otherwise, I am on this forum often, and Jeanine as well.I don't know why I need to comment- lol. Jeanine is awesome on here and has obviously added a perspective I can't povide (in such beautiful words as well).

The best to you Randi, please feel free to contact me from my profile page or come back here and we can continue a discussion any time.


jeanine 5 years ago

HI Randi... what she said...lol... and she is just joking about me knowing anything... I love that she said... we just want to know how far you want to go... that is a mouthful... most of us are so afraid that we never consider the people we live with actually love us... Izettl... I'm so sorry you've been sick... take something... this is america... and Randi That's why we are here... LOL... in America there is always someone to help... my closest teacher asked me... if surgery were not available how would you deal with your challenge... and that's a good question... the reason for the hormones is it releases the brain to think logically again... if you do nothing... the brain will not accept that in our case... it;s like saying to the nervous man... he should just get a hold of his nerves... hey if he could he would... and trans is a lot like that to me... I have had the best in council, my wife, my children, my help group and most of all a a belief in a forgiving God... it does take a village to love me...lol... and every trans out there... I am two spirited and more than not refer to myself as that... Trans connotes surgery and although most think that's where we are bound... I believe differently than most when it comes to our destiny... for if I am one... I am both... but if the doctors make me one... then I am half of who I am... understand...the gift is superb... for if you can have an honest relationship with your wife... then she will understand the sacrifice you are willing to endure for her love and the love of your family... and that's who we really are... you can no more do away with the man you have been than a blind man can see... you have been him... my trans friends always joke...especially about electrolysis... that it takes a man to be a woman... but I say... it takes a woman's love to be a successful man... if you can remain in the body given... there is no shame... for who amongst us has not felt or wished they were the opposite sex.. the difference with us is... we are the opposite at times... want to be a girl... do all of her work for a year... without complaint... want to know how she feels about security... encourage her career to the point she makes the same as you.. when she no longer depends on you... then you'll know about security... your own needs surface... do all the shopping for the family... know the kids sizes... the birthdays... what they will eat and won't... stay on a perpetual diet... lose down to a size 8 or 10 dress... make sure your hair is the always the way she likes it on you... then you will see what being loved is all about... and I do mean this seriously... she is the boss at my house... I am the wife who makes more money... does most all of the things I just referred you to... and still willing do what she wants us to do... if you are willing to do this... then you are probably two spirited... if not and you just want to change sex... you are trans... which there is nothing wrong with that... bur for me... it's just to damn... manly...lol..lol...


jeanine 5 years ago

if you stay in this body... then you are the man also... and that's fun... you already know th benefits sexually... but if she knows your just using the equipment that cam with the house... it can be fun... I know a lot of my friends... are trans and now they are lesbians as well... I say why waste the equipment... God knew I was two spirited to start with... so he gave me the right equipment for women... and hey it's the right equipment if you like men... there are great advantages to being a man... work... respect... easier to convince someone in the work place... be you... just tell them since you retired... even your thoughts are different... it's good to be different... difficult if one is strange... and I have been both... I like different better than strange... and oh just where you know... if you are the wife... that doesn't negate any of your husband, lover friend and father duties... I dislike that most about some trans... they think being a girl is easy... that's why most of them are pissed off when they cut... think about how wonderful all of life can be... be honest... with Her.. your wife... be respectful for she is your teacher... the make up is for when you get old enough to be a big girl... Izettl would never let her daughter make up everyday... she must grow and learn how to be a young girl... all the things you think make you a woman... clothes make up...oh my matching Bras and panties... shoes... women will kill for shoes so be careful... those things are the prize if you really are successful at this... try to be normal...lol...you can't..lol... but then you realize... this not being normal is a trip in itself... so you begin to explore the spirit... which is real... the dressing is for those who are pretty... the spirit is for the adventurous... smile... your life is unique...


jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... if you achieve these things... there are amazing treasures to be had... for if you can live the love of a woman... then the love of a woman becomes you... and peace never looked so good... for it is the natural way of exploration of two spirited people... monogomy at a new level... when woman respects woman and bot respect men... the gift of which I speak... if one offense if not offensive... the there is no offense... love becomes a sweet fragrance of God... the commandment that most humans have forgotten...consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.....we are his lilies in all of human kind... understand... it is a higher calling... to encourage His creation to be all man and all woman... each the most important of His creations on earth... we read his lips... hear His voice... you are unique... be very careful what you give up... I've found it all very useful... many will say... He just doesn't have it... so he can think that way...and they could be right... we'll all see sooner or later....the whisper within my soul... is..."never practice anything that makes you less"there are so many benefits... one but needs look at what He has given you... an understand woman... learn to be that....


Jeanine 5 years ago

an understanding woman.... learn to be that...


Jeanine 5 years ago

if ones offense if not offensive... then there is no offense...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... if you need to contact me direct also... Izettl has my email address... but if we can discuss as much as we can here, for the hub and the people who need information...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I find a lot of wisdom in your thoughts and perspective. I am out of town on a temporary job, about a week, but once I get home, I am going to have my wife read through most of your Hub.

I have engaged a gender councilor and have visited her twice already. It has been productive and scary at the same time. At this point I am working through the therapy process to figure out just how far or how deep the female side is and what balance can I strike between male/female.

When you've felt female on the inside since somewhere between five and seven years old, and your have repressed that side, the challenges are how far to transition, and what is the timeline. I'm ok with taking time to work through issues and to be thoughtful, caring and organized about how I do it.

One thing I'd like your thoughts on, is how would you suggest approaching a College sophomore daughter and a soon to be 11th grader son. I'm sure that I will do some work with my counselor on this topic, but your first hand experience likely has some valuable insight.

Jeanine,

I've read your posts, but need some time to sort out what you've said, I'll get back to you soon.

Thanks to you both!


jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... I wrote it as three different thoughts... so you could see... and think of each one... all three are important... so I didn't want to put them together... be very careful saying... I've always felt like a girl... there is no way that can be actually... you have always felt like you thought a girl might feel... the reality is ... you are two spirited... you have always had the ability to understand what a girl might feel like... but you remember because you have suppressed her... she is very weak... I believe she is the first person after she gets out, who will tell you how much she loves the man and brother you are to her... so is the challenge... do your face first... after HRT....before you change anything else... get to know her and make her well again before you let her make the decisions... it's unfair to you and her as well to let her decide at this time... the sheer recognition of her is so euphoric that she is cannot possibly be of sound mind... the kid in the candy store so to speak...


Randipilot 5 years ago

jeanine, I truly, truly appriciate your thoughts and the time you are taking with me. After reading your last several posts multiple time, I have been trying to process them. Your most recent post is great. It's been coming together for me, but this one really works.

I'll keep moving forward, but as you say don't let her be a kid in a candy store. As I'm sure you are aware, it's not always easy...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Hi Randi... you are coming along fine... so don't let me tell you what to do... Izettl and I both are just relaying knowledge of what has happened to us... it is not an easy thing to do... but most of the heart ache that I have seen comes from hasty decisions... when and if you transition fully... in the end you will still be the same person basically... even if you go completely totally fem... you will always have him there with you... so in hopes of making everyone just a little less crazy... think before you act... plan... and think through every possible glitch... it's a mission from God... lol... and although that's funny... it really is... unfortunately a lot of therapist will not give you hormones if they don't think you are going to go all the way... so be careful in that area also... if you think you have that person working for you... change immediately...you must get HRT started in order to arrest the brain... like I said... Hrt... electrolysis... and do not proceed until the electrolysis is done... this will give her a year to heal and be with you... her brother... this only works for those who don't hate their male counterpart for stuffing them in a closet for all of their lives... most of all late transitioners retain their male sides... so you can either walk around the world asking why do people treat me this way or walk around rebuilding the side you kept from us...saying I am me finally... and the latter works for me... I will not give up what I have in order to get something... that will hurt those I love...I can't I won't... and that part of my statement is a practice for me... the first three reads are hard to understand... ask questions if you need... please know that I am used to talking with Izettl and so I may be going to fast... please let me... and I don't mind spending the time... you are of my tribe... and it's important to me that we reclaim our position of honor... you can change the body... but the mind will remain the same... the greatest relief is when you finally are on HRT and the brain says to the mind... thanks for finally doing something for me... and those moments are euphoric also... be very careful... steady as she goes...lol...lol..lol


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Randi (and Jeanine)~ The hurt came a lot from knowing my dad had a couple of "girl griends"- women he worked with who knew him as he really was and he'd go shopping with them, dressing up and going out in the city with them. He felt they understood him and what Jeanine and I are both saying is; it is helpful to surround yourself with people who support you, but also you have to open yourself up to those whom you already love and have in your life, but are afraid they may not totally accept you. I loved my dad (still do more or less-lol), but he found it easier to open up to near strangers than to me because of his hear I would not accept him. Please don't do that to your loved ones.

It took my dad getting a full change to be more like your way of thought. You have achieved that without going all the way and yet my dad could not find that until he went all the way so I think some trans are still two-spirited. My dad was ultra girly and too fake before he got a sex change, then we he/she did it, she finally seemed more balanced to me and felt a bit more comfortable. The irony is, while she is more comfortable with herself, the rest of the world- family and society, is not comfortable with her.

As Jeanine was saying if I look beyond the clothes, make-up, etc I see my dad, his spirit. That's where you have to see yourself Randi and then build on that, but on the flip side, my dad did not see that until he changed. That part's up to you.

Jeanine, I liked what you said about the sexual benefits of both- very true.

Randi, Jeaine is probably right about the heartache coming from hasty decisions. My dad's was nearly overnight. While I knew him to a cross dresser since I was about 10 or younger, I did not know anything about him actually wanting to be a woman. what hurts is I think he had it planned most of his life- when he retired.... I was not in on it at all. He had told me it wasn't my decision and of course I knew that to be true- duh! But whether it was my decision or not, I think I would have been better off at least knowing his intentions. Most hurt comes from deceptions stemming back for wuite some time. We hurt the more the longer we've been decieved. So keep that in mind. you may want to ask your counselor how to specifically answer the questions your kids may have and how to keep open and ongoing communication with them. I think a good reminder to them, from you, is who you will always be to them. Some like to say, they've lost a father but gained a friend- blah. I hate that. I have enough friends. Once I found my father under and within the new woman, I was able to find steady ground for us to maintain a father daughter relationship. While meeting your needs, make sure your kids are still getting their needs met. Having kids is about making some sacrifices anyway, with or without sexual transitions. I think as long as you are making progress, you will be happy. I am not sure why my dad felt the need to do it so quickly and all at once. But it took her a lot longer to re-establish a relationship with me again and to e comfortable with herself so that was a downside to rushing it.


Jeanine 5 years ago

izettl... I am convinced more and more that the lack of spiritual weight in these matters leads one to only the body... Some Trans with the spiritual background are able to transcend the body and feel at home in both venues... it is the one underlying question for me... why do some have that ability... is it a practice or a gift...... if it is a gift then... there is nothing to do... but if it is a practice... one but needs to honestly set out a course and try to live it... Ii hear you talk of how she is more at peace now... yet seems to be more of both... I am interested in those thoughts primarily... are you able to talk to her in those places yet... and if so what is her response...


Jeanine 5 years ago

Randipilot... did you ever get a hold of Izettl... you disappeared on me... I just want to make sure you found the help you were looking for... let me know...


Kat 5 years ago

Izettl:

I wanted to thank you for the post and your comments. It hit close to home, and caused me to consider some things in a new light.

Like your parent, I went through the “transition” process, albeit at a much younger age. The specifics may be a little different, but the wake of devastation was much the same. When I made the decision to ultimately go down this road, a lot of people got hurt.

Nothing I can do or say can change what happened to my family or un-do what happened to you. I’m not going to try to justify transition, or berate you for being “unaccepting”, or “transphobic”. My hope in this comment is that perhaps in sharing my experience, you may find some of the understanding you search for.

The only experience I know is my own, and I can’t speak for anyone but myself. I don’t know why your parent handled things the way he did, but I spend a lot of time trying to understand why I made the decisions I did.

As trans individuals, we often have a lifetime to know what’s going on. I’m not going to reiterate the standard “trans” narrative; you’ve undoubtedly heard it before. It is sufficient to say I knew from a young age that something was very different. I was too grounded to turn to prayer to be “fixed”, or deluded into thinking that I would wake one day and things would have changed. I was never told that I had to conform to any particular gender, and faced the same retribution for nonconformity that anyone my age did. I lived a fairly uneventful childhood except for the sense that things were wrong. I knew it wasn’t normal to hope and dream about testicular cancer or a car accident that would obliterate my genitals, but I couldn’t stop, and it tormented me.

As I grew older, I quickly learned that how I felt wasn’t “normal”, and I did everything I could to hide what was going on in my head. I tried a number of things to try to help, including cross-dressing, but the best it could ever be was a facsimile, and that held no value for me.

I was the eldest child, with 4 siblings. As the oldest, I was in many ways the anchor for the family, and the mediator. I love them all, and I always will. When times were tough, I did what I could to help out. I’d take a bullet for any of them without hesitation, so what’s a little work?

My parents were Mormon, as were most of my siblings. Mormons believe in spirits with gender, and their doctrine encourages them to actively work against gays and lesbians. On one occasion, my mom had seen children coming out on TV. She came home later that day and exclaimed how grateful she was that she would never have to worry about her kids doing something like that. There were also occasions when they talked about their politics and impression of gay individuals, and I quickly came to the conclusion that any thoughts of transition – under any circumstance – would be met with hostility. In fact, I thought that if I how I felt ever came out, I would lose my family and be disowned.

As time went on, and Testosterone started working some changes in my body, my feelings became worse and more pronounced. I fought them, because I love my family. How could I ask them to accept a decision like that? I would rather die than lose them, so I did everything in my power to hide as much as I could, even from myself. It tormented me, but it was my burden to bear – not theirs.

I am truly thankful for stories like yours, as they served as a warning to me. Although I could not choose my siblings and parents (nor would I want to replace them), I could choose my spouse. I knew that dating could lead to attraction, and eventually to long-term relationships, marriage, and children. Despite tremendous pressure from the church, and numerous attempts from my family, I refused to date anyone – even just “fun”. I knew that one day the pressure to transition might be more than I could handle, and it would not be fair to my spouse or my kids to do that to them.

I waited, alone, for my parents to pass (hopefully of natural causes at a healthy old age). I figured that would likely be the point where I could make a choice for myself, without having it come at a huge burden to others.

I tried to keep things in. I really did. I fought and fought and fought and fought, and then one day it became too much. I couldn’t take it any longer. I began to wrap up my affairs, and obtained a life insurance policy. My family was dependent on me financially, so I decided to stage an accident. I had set things in motion to ensure lethality – I wasn’t going to do a cry for help. I hoped that an accident would be less traumatic on them than a suicide.

The time came. I was minutes from walking to my vehicle on what would be the last ride I would ever take. I was to die to preserve my secret – better dead than transsexual. Better death in a freak accident than death as a freak. I would go out as a brother, a son, the boy and the man they knew for 24 years.

And then it hit me.

I didn’t know what transition would bring, but I knew what would come of suicide. They might lose a family member if I transitioned, but they would definitely lose me if I didn’t. A chance at a relationship with me would be better than a memory, even if they chose not to take that chance.

I started HRT, and my emotions started to change. Not really surprising – any woman who has dealt with pregnancy or menopause knows first-hand the power of hormones. I came out to my family one at a time. It was the hardest thing I ever did.

When I started to come out to my mother, I couldn’t bring myself to say the words. She told me she would love me no matter what I did, even if I were an axe murderer on death row. I told her I might hold her to it – to me, I felt the two were equally shameful. I had failed my family.

When I came out to my father, I had no idea what to expect. I waited for a public building (hotel), tied his shoes, and hid them under the bed. I had my backpack by the door, and my cell phone in my pocket. I was ready to scream out or run if necessary. I had no clue what to expect, and was afraid of the potential for violence. I was supposed to follow in his footsteps, to carry on the family lineage. I didn’t know at the time I was sterile my whole life, but I knew I had failed him.

In the end, I transitioned because I love my family. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but I could find no way to avoid it – only degrees of pain, and timing.

I am sorry your father put you through what he did. It is never acceptable to do that to a child, or a spouse. I am in the process of building a family myself. My spouse and kids will never have to live through me transitioning, and though it may not be a lot of consolation at this point, know that stories like yours have saved many people from heartache. I just wish he could have learned that lesson earlier, so you could have been spared unnecessary heartache.

He should have been available for you on your wedding day. When we harm those around us, we have an obligation to work to minimize said harm. I was not permitted to my sister’s wedding, but I traveled cross-country to be available should she change her mind. I respect her choice, but it had to be hers – not mine.

You ask why some people choose to get married, start families, or date people they aren’t attracted to. Many do it out of love – they love their wife and think they can change. Perhaps that love is strong enough, for a while. Some do it to “fix” themselves with a flight into masculinity – often taking jobs in the military, police, fire department, or other hyper-masculine activities. Some do it for camouflage, to hide their own insecurity. Nobody suspects the good loving father of 3 to be a closeted gay, and nobody expects the quintessential alpha male to be trans.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Kat~ I really want to thank you for your comment. It makes a lot of sense. I understand the torment since I've written my account of going through this with my dad because of all those who've commented and shared their stories. It was difficult to understand that type of torment from my dad because he has/is always been very judgmental of my life. He has never had compassion for choices I've made so it was hard to treat him differently- he partly lives in his own world.

Your timing of transitioning was far superior to my dad's, but maybe there was no good timing. He just let me know after he fact and by email. It was impersonal considering I was his only child.

I think what hurts most family members is the feeling of their life with the TS person being a lie and mostly secrets. the hurt doesn't usually stem from a parent being a transsexual- at least that's not what struck me most so I woudn't be a transphobic. I even had a friend yars prior to my dad's changing that was doing HRT. It was the way it was done. To ask for my support when he never supported my life choices.

My dad was all you described; into sports, cheated on my mom with a younger woman, into sports cars, and was in the military then a government position.

I want to thank you again for sharing your story. The children of trans suffer most when they don't feel they know their parent or fit into their new life anymore. The TS happy about transitioning exactly when the child experiences sadness. It takes time to find common ground.


Randipilot 5 years ago

Jeanine, I'm still here. I've found a counselor and have started to work things out. There is a long way to go in getting everything worked out but, I'm making progress.

As am gratful for a place like this as the spiritual and family elements are so often brushed aside in other place relating to this issue.

I'll post some more shortly.

Thanks again everyone for the support.

Randi


Jeanine 5 years ago

Randi... so glad you have found someone... did you ever contact Izettl... I did contact her and gave her my email... so if you need to get me she has it now... well... they are brushed aside because of the impatience of thr trans community... I did talk to the electrolygist this morning and she will be glad to help you and knows workers in every area of the country...


Blake88 5 years ago

Ok I spent a long time reading through all of the comments on this page and I would like to say I enjoyed it a lot. I am 20 years old amd am soon to be a father but I am also a transexual I had started transitioning just before my fiancé and I had found that she was pregnant I was searching for the opinions of people like you because today I found out that it is going to be a girl and it really got me thinking o her as the person she will become.

But I guess my real question is do you think that it would have been different if you had never been "lied to" or if you had just always known that your father felt that way or was that way yes I know it would still be hard at times but do you think you would have a better relationship with him now if he had just done this early in your life.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Blake~ OH YES!! Yes it would have been different for both my mom and myself if my dad hadn't had lied about it or felt it needed to be a secret. The very fact of keeping it a secret made it seem shameful.

I also found out later that he had gal pals he went in the city with and dressed up and went to the theater and restaurants. I just wish I had been as close to him as they were or felt like a part of his life before he completely transitioned. We had a lot of distance betwen us because he was keeping himself and his life a secret to me. There was no transition for me. My dad was a transvestite then suddenly a complete fully transtitioned woman- it didn't sink in for me for a long time. 'Jeanine' on here has been open with his/her family from the start and has good relationships with them. It makes a huge difference and it sounds like you are off to a good start.


jeanine 5 years ago

I would agree, Izetti, Blake there are so many more avenues you can travel if you can be honest, I've found comfort in knowing my family knows, and because of that, some of the angst is not present. For me it has allowed me to live a full life and still be a two spirited individual. This blog is so far ahead of most you read and I mean that as Izettl knows more and has bravely shared a moment that was anything but pleasant for her. I will always be thankful that she openly revisited her pain so some of us might find a way was there was no way... there are options to what the community might tell you are your only options. Hope to see you here... tell your friends about this women... she is a delight... Thanks Izetti


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ You are beyond nice to me- and someday I'll figure out why....lol. I really want to help others- it's always been in me so I bring up things that are hard for many to talk about but maybe they will know someone else has gone through it too. I definitely don't have all the answers, but it helps to have a lot more perspectives on here besides mine...and thank you Jeanine. We're quite a team!


Tess_wegner profile image

Tess_wegner 5 years ago

Just read up the page for last hour,would you have the same opinion about your father if he was'nt so selfish with his transexualism?I think you would.

The bigotry transexuals have to cope with is unfair to say the least,instead of support many families turn there back on them,how do you think they feel?

There's no easy time to "come out" and many try so hard to fight the urge but eventually give in.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Tess, I can agree that this is the hardest thing one would ever try and accomplish, and quite expensive in every way... because we are at the forefront of being able to change our sex(SRS, GRS) we are making some stupid mistakes... I think the one that bothers me the most is, the way we attack the problem of gender. Most trans I know, go balls to the wall when they finally decide to transition and that in no way resembles any woman on the planet. That being said, I think this one factor stands in the way of us every seeing the light of day... most of us are pissed off when we finally understand the rights a woman has in this life and because we have always fought for everything we have as a man, again our behavior betrays us. Think about it, if you are trans or two spirited, you know our history, before SRS was available we were advisers to Kings, queens and great leaders all over the world. Since SRS we have been relegated to the freak shows and such... now tell me, which life is better? I am two spirited and have had such amazing guidance that I see my other self as a twin sister or twin brother... are you trans and if so are you attracted to women... I love women so when my trans friends say they are Lesbian, I just shake my head... I love living in the body of a man, I don't care for the smell but love laying with a woman... I know it hard so I'm not saying you should be like me, God knows I am as odd as they come... but you do have to look at the powerful positions we shared in our past and what is happening now... I will not become less of a woman to be all man... nor less of a man to be all woman... I am complete in that I know about both and that's what makes me unique... I sat with the head of the John Hopkins program years ago as they were about to shut it down, are you familiar with that program... the first to study the effects of SRS on transsexuals in this country... I asked why stating that we need more understanding... He said, gender is way out of their league and SRS should only be done when the pain is severe... now hear we go... who determines how painful, you and I... if it is that painful for you, then I will pray for you, and if you have transitioned already, I know you must be the loveliest of all creatures... but you must be aware that one day you will be considered a pioneer of the early days when Trans thought you must change the body to be accepted... would love to hear more and I hope I have not been offensive to you... I love the trans community and think we have amazing abilities... I do also think that we have had some bad advice from the medical community...


Randipilot 5 years ago

Just a couple of thoughts. First, thanks Izetti for this BLOG, it is truly a blessing to me. Second as a Transsexual who has just started the process of opening up on my transsexuality to my family in my late forties (wife and two teenage kids), the sooner you are honest with yourself and with others (family in particular) the sooner you will begin to find peace relating to who you are.

The "hiding" and lying (if you have) builds walls that only get bigger and stronger with time, and only serve to create greater stress over time. I love my wife and children and have no desire (nor way) to go back and do life over again, but the pain and burden that they now carry is my fault because I didn't have the inner strength when I was a child, teenage and young adult to come out then. Would that have changed my life, yes. Would it have been better, there is no way to know, but I am sure that the struggle for inner peace would not have been there for forty years.

Reality being what it is, and what it was as I grew up, have brought me to the place where I am now, so I press forward with disclosure. Not easy, in fact very hard and heart wrenching for both me and my family. Better to have your child grow up knowing who you really are and loving you for that, than telling a almost 19 years old daughter and a 16 year old son and putting them in a position to have to grow into adulthood with you in transition. And then there are two sister and a brother plus there children, plus my parents, my sister-in-law and her children, and my mother and father-in-law. For me once I get through that list, ( I've started and will be finished within the month) thing get a lot easier.

Just for reference, my wife has known about my cross dressing since before we where married, but only found out about my trans status four and a half years ago. She's as supportive as she can be, and we are working though it together and hope to keep making it work as we are and have been best friends for nearly 30 years (just celebrated our 27th wedding anniversary). But be sure it is a struggle for both of us, more for her at this point then me, as she now has to bear the burden and the stigma of having married a transsexual, at some point maybe even being perceived as a lesbian (which she clearly is not), potential loss of relationships with family and friends...

I hope you get the picture.

Unlike Izetti's dad, I never had a set of "girlfriends" that I went out with etc. I lived alone in my "box", keeping my secret "safe", not a good place to be, not a healthy place either. I know that I have a loving family, and I am quite sure that they will still love me once I get them all told, (so far so good) but it's not easier now than it would have been earlier... I'm just more able I guess.

Thanks again Izetti and Jeannine, this page has been and is a great resource for me.


jeanine 5 years ago

Hi Randi, did you find a good electrolysis professional yet, remember to give you self time to do your face first... ope you are well... let us know. I know how hard it is to do this but you are right to tell as soon as you can...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tes~ my dad expected me to accept him and yet had never accepted me my whole life. Honestly, there was/is a lot more than the trans issue between us. Yes, when he changed, it was finally as if I had an upperhand in the superiority spot he always reigned over me for years. Here was someone whose approval I never got and now he was waiting or my approval (this was on the day I first saw him as her)- it was a tough spot for both of us.

Tes, there is no right or wrong way for family members to deal with this- there is only their way. Most of the people dealing with a parent who has done this, is often on the fence, caught off guard,and none of them are purposefully being hurtful. Often, as in my case, there are other relationship dynamics in the mix as well. I was not treated particularly well by my dad so my feelings were probably not gracious at first. We had to start over a new relationship.

Every decision has a consequence- I know Trans feel they must change, but many of my big decisions in my life have been met with some negative feedback. THat's life. THe difficult part of the change process for both trans and family member is each person is feeling an onslaught of emotions so it is dfficult to even consider the other person's feelings. I did, and I smiled fakely as I wanted to cry. I lied to myself and my dad about how I felt at first- I faked it, I faked being OK with it within myself so I had to deal with it much later. Not everyone will feel the same, but I want to be real about my experience. This blog for trans to tell me how they feel so I can learn-you're right, I have no idea how they feel, how would I until reading their experiences in the comments here? THank you for stopping by. I understand your perspective.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ i just want to say good point about trans changing so quickly- my dad did. I feel like I was lured into a trap. I hadn't seen him in almost 2 years and suddenly he calls to say he was in town and wanted to meet. When I met him/her, there was no warning before and I was blindsided. I acted nice, but just wanted to get away as soon as possible.

Your perspective is much different to 'Tes' in that yours is coming from strength and hers from a weakness- it' not bad, just difference views. For me, I've taken pride in being different in all the ways that I am, and trust me, I am. I've found a position of strength from negativity in my life, although I am not trans, there are other issues in life to deal with too.

Tes~ I hope you find strength- who said life was easy? No, there is no easy way to come out...I think gradual and accepting other's feelings too.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Randi~ Getting all the perspectives here, and I never imagined I'd get some great ones from the trans community as well. I commend you for telling your family. My dad never did and only told me when he completely changed. I was left to get all the questions from all the family members about why he never showed up to a family gathering. I think some of them wonder i he's still alive. He stopped all family contact and no, I don't think that is the right way. I really am impressed you willing to face your family and simultaneously considering their feelings too.

I am so glad this blog is considered a 'resource'- that's an honor! THanks Randi.


jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti , "easy on that I don't know if there are any good comments gonna come from that bunch over there...lol... I knew what you meant, but we are growing as a community and there are more and more of us saying wait a minute that's not how I feel, but I do feel exactly like you on other things,,, I think we have looks for acceptance for so long, we want to hold what came by first and that's a natural response... Tess I'm so sorry for the hardship because I know many that have suffered with you, it's just not me, I have been lucky the whole way through, but also I have been able to respect their views without it hurting mine, and for me that's a big part of it.... it's like American idol to me, some of those people are idiots thinking they can sing, the mam lied to them, they simply suck, while others don't even know how good they are... the trans community is like that in ways, there are some of us, out of sheer will want to be accepted as miss thang, when we will never be her, then there are some who know exactly how far to go within whom they are... I'm interested in helping all two spirited and trans people... know themselves but, I also would like them to know our history is thousands of years old... the spiritual side of two spirits is why we are here on earth... when man was to afraid or ashamed to speak to God.. we were there to help him know His god and know that he could talk to Him without us. The same for womankind... when she did not know where to turn, we were there to reminded her how much she is loved...


tess_wegner 5 years ago

Just a quick comment as ive got work shortly.

I see Jeannine and Izettti have responded to my blog.

Im a very positive person and cant understand why and how people you know all your life change beacuase you want to live as a woman,its the most hurtfull experence ive had in my life so far.

I do see and sympothize with whats going on in your lifes,I do believe from what ive seen each case can be different,after all we are the sum of our experirnces.

Trust me Izeti,my comments dont come from "weakness"if you knew me you wouldnt say it.

I wish you both well.


jeanine 5 years ago

Tess... I don't see anything weak about Trans and I'm sure you are a delight... and as far as it being hurtful, I can't even imagine and that's why I sought to understand more of why I felt I wanted to be a woman... that's how I thought when I was younger... but the ore I looked into it, I realized for me at least, the cover on the outside is not what I'm about, and that's what it appears to be to me... most of my friends are so concerned about what the cover looks like that I don't really see them living what's inside the book of life(their lives)...

Now think about when you said, I don't see how they can reject me, not your words but that's where the hurt comes from.. look at it from their stand point... what if the most beautiful woman or man you know, decided to scar her or his face in some hideous joker like frown... and to you there was no reason except they didn't like the way they felt inside or looked on the outside... you would have problems with that more than likely... I think that's the way the world sees us... because we do not come with our spiritual baggage in tow and help them see that we are worth from an intellectual side... they just see the cosmetic changes... and to be honest at my help group, I don't hear my sisters talking about helping others, I hear them talking about changing this or my nose will look like this, on the surface... just an observation... but I think that's why they are surprised and don't know how to deal with someone who in their minds... just changed the outside...I wish you well also dear, I know this is hard and I will pray for you... now that being said... every one of us, know we are about the spirit in the trans community... do me a favor.. next time you are with friends... notice if they are concerned with themselves or their family... I've noticed that when a trans talks about their family... after beginning transition, it's mostly about how their family is accepting them as the new person... I rarely hear genuine concern for he family that we have just subjected to a complete new set of rules... most comments are very ego focused on... why don't they accept me right now, or I'm going to make them accept me, whether they want to or not.. if one of us does raise that question... most of the post ops all say in unison, well your family will accept it sooner or later... now to me, that's as selfish a man as I'll ever heard... and I say man because I don't know any woman who ever subjects her child, to any hurt on purpose... so I'll say it this way... "the woman in me would never let anyone hurt the children that I have raised and I would never let any man hurt my children, in fact I would fight to the death to protect them, even protecting them from the man, whose body I now reside in" does that make sense to you, the short coming in transition to me is, our behavior marks us as men who are wanna bes, because there are no women on earth that would hurt their children, except for crazies and unbalanced moms... your case unfortunately is not a strong one... selfish, self serve men... and I'm not mad... just have studied a long time and the evidence that you wish for is not really present in our community yet... we are still men trying to act like women... don't believe me, go to group next time and sit and listen... the conversation is not about how much they love, it's about how much they are not loved...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tes~ when I refer to weakness, I am not saying all trans are weak (not at all), I am stating that you seem to view your position from weakness because not everyone accepts you and they can be hurtful. It takes strength to accept who you are and accept that not everyone else will.I'm sure you are a strong person besides this aspect of your life. I have been there too, but not being a trans, just having a chronic illness and disability. I actually lost some family and friends because having an illness or disability is scary to people, reminds them of their own mortality so I've been avoided like the plague onsome occasions. I've felt weak and vulnerable about it, but I want to be a leader and example of someone who desn't let it get them down, either you're with me or not. I mention weakness to you because I was also in a spot when the people around me got me down because they dropped from my life like flies once they found out my disability- it was frustrating- I just had to take a position of strength so while I understand your frustrations with others, with society, you have to rise above, as cliche as that sounds.

I see strength in 'Jeanine' for instance because he/she has been very true to herself and has become somewhat of a leader for others like her, taking the time to educate people in her life and open up a dialogue about it. I'm sure you've done this and I can't say too much because I don't really know your story, only the frustations you've displayed here. Once I began learning to live with my disability, finding the positives about it, being less weak and awkward about it- just like JEanine who has found the positives in having both female and male traits/spirit- then more people started coming around me again. WHat we think about ourselves has some bearing on what others think and feel about us. I was taught in a Psych class that you need to gauge how you are feeling around someone, because that is likely how they feel about you so make sure you accept yourself, really and not seeing your trans self as the barrier to hapiness with others.

Tes, I'm only saying all this from a feelings position as I can't possibly know much of what you really are going through, being everybody and every situation is different. I just wanted to relate to you a time when I felt similar to the hurt you've expressed here. Please don't take it as anymore than that. Youre right I don't know you but I still believe you believe this is the one aspect in your life holding you back and causing you pain and I'm just saying I've been there felt weak in that particular aspect of my life.THis may not be you, but then again it may relate to you.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine and Tes~ A little about what you said Jeanine...in that the 'cover' and outside is so important to man trans, including my dad, that it gets in the way. It's so important to be accepted by the outside that it becomes who you are. With the change of my dad's outside (sex change) he also TRIED to change who he was on the inside to macth that outside as if he could not have been that person without changing the outside. It wasn't the outside I had issues with (Ok it was a little bit of a shocker), it was mostly him suddenly having a different personality and it seemed fake to me. What would you think if your parent suddenly changed what they looked like AND their whole personality? You don't know the person, basically yet they want you to feel the same as you always did. Changing one's looks and personality pretty much makes it seem as though that person you knew isn't there anymore. In the last several years ,my dad has 'relaxed' and become him/herself again- a person I knew as my dad. He's not playing a chracter anymore (in my view).I don't care about the outside as much because I see my dad again (from the inside).

My dad was very egocentric after her change.Talking about designer clothes, wigs, make-up, etc and not even consider that it mabe odd for a girl to discuss and relate to her dad about those topics. Also when those topics bcome more important than how I'm doing or how college was going, etc. I disappeared it seems in my dad's newfound womanhood.Trans also have years to think about their female self before they change, whereas family often does not.


Tess_wegner profile image

Tess_wegner 5 years ago

Izetti,having a chronic illness and disability like yourself is tragic and I cant believe family or freinds would avoid or distance themselves, even more so you said you have lost them over this,It's simply unexeptable,sure its scary,I can relate having lost someone to cancer.

This however made me and family stronger for this person and we were there for them.

I can understand people not excepting my or anyone's transition even if it hurt's,but in your case I cant except it ,horrible of me to say I know but I think your better off without such people.

Im very sorry to hear of your situation.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tes~ I didn't mean to give you a pity story, I just wanted you to understand that although being trans or transitioning isn't extremely commonly accepted in our society, you aren't alone because someone else is dealing with the same alienation or misunderstanding that you are, but maybe different situation. I think with my chronic illness people don't understand it and like your situation, people don't understand it either so there is a stigma and people distance themselves. although it may sound strange, I can relate to some of what you've expressed and that's what I was aiming for by telling you my story. I really believe that trans truly feel the way they are and for a lack of better words...can't help it. I did nothing to get my illness, I was healthy so in a way we are both put in a position whether we like it or not.

By believing I was losing people due to my illness, I was in a weak spot, but I accepted it and found strength in it and other than some of the physical aspects, I am happier for it. I try and educate people about it so they can understand but the scary aspect of it is anybody can get it (Rheumatoid Arthritis) so that scares people off. Sometimes I think people think they can 'catch' homosexuality. I understand people walking away from me because people just don't deal well with what they don't understand- it's not you, it's not me, it's a lack of understanding. I have gained a lot of great new friends so it has paid off. I hope you find that peace too and I hope those around you begin to be more understanding. I definitely don't blame my dad for transitioning, it was just the way he did it and I think I've mentioned that earlier. The trans situation is delicate, it is not even when one person gets sick and others have to deal with it, it is something that both you and the ones you care about have to deal with because as I felt, my dad's change happened to me too. I took so much care for his vulnerability and was sensitive to his needs that I overlooked my heartache for a long time. I just wanted to forget about him and move on- sounds bad, but that was my initial reaction to dealing with it. I am pretty blunt and I have a hard time being fake and I hated being fake when I was around my dad. If I couldn't be me then why be around him? It has taken several years (and most of this is lack of communication) to get past it all and be around each other in an easy way. Sometimes I wonder if he plays a role when I am around and acts less feminine to appease me now- I long for times when we could be normal and ourselves around each other, but I realize that has never happened for my dad because he has wanted to be a woman since he was young so he never really was herself anyway. Thanks for discussing...


jeanine 5 years ago

Izettl... very touching and beautiful... I have issue with one statement...I realize that has never happened for my dad because he has wanted to be a woman since he was young so he never really was herself anyway"... I believe all those times he/she were her/him... I see it as he got some bad med advice... just like thousands of people everyday... an operation that was not or may not have been needed... from a med community that has stopped looking for the solution and has been readily making a profit on my tribe for years now... the therapy departments as a whole across the land have stopped looking for any answer other than surgery to relive the pain.... and like all medicine... just as we were sure all aliments could be remedied by surgery, we are just realizing in the last twenty years or so that some non invasive ways are better for some aliments... Tess. I am with you sweet heart and believe those people who are ugly to you should be out of your life, mine and Izettl's. I sure hope you two have a wonderful day...


jeanine 5 years ago

Oh my... I meant to say...I believe all those times he/she was being himself...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ What a nice comment for me to wake up to today. THanks for your words. What I see now of my dad is what I remember when I was younger so it's as god as it gets. Which ain't bad- lol! Have a great day!


Tess_wegner profile image

Tess_wegner 5 years ago

No it's great to chat to other's in my situation,Jeanine of course knows about the trials and tribulations.

I know your not after pity Izetti and that's one reason my heart goes out to you,I think your situation is different of course but as you put it there is similarities,personaly i think I have grown as a person with my situation and im sure you have too.

I dont believe educating people really works,information is at your fingertips with the internet and so many social networks and still people choose not to understand,one thing I have learnt through all this is "people are people"some supprise you and some disapoint you.

Out of intrest ive met some great friends through support rooms,five years ago I would'nt have thought it possible.


jeanine 5 years ago

Oh Tess, my heart goes out to you, because people can be so cruel... you are quite beautiful in your pic and in your words... I think Education is a good thing but you are probably right, if they don't want to know about it, they are not going to read pertinent information.... it is my prayer that all people you meet from here on surprise you and embrace you for the love that you carry for them... so nice to meet you and I love Izetti in that she has faced the fire with her own dad and she is a fine writer... how to read you more


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tes~ The type of info on the Internet on transsexuals is awful. Before I wrote this, I searched the Internet and most of the sites brought up x-rated awful junk. It's not information. I believe we live in a world with too much info and too little understanding and credibility overall. Media seems to cover transsexuals in movies and tv shows as 'freaks'. This is not info. The only people who can really give good credible info are you and me- those that have experienced something to do with it, but many in either of circumstances just want to hide, be left alone, kept secret, etc. By getting my story out I could say to myself that I was not ashamed of my dad- there is no shame and shouldn't be, but it is an initial reaction I had. Nobody should be ashamed of who they are. I see that now, but most of my education was on here from transsexuals who told their stories.

I do hope in years to come that there will be a cure for my illness and a general understanding and more supportive system for transsexuals. Thanks for talking Tes.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Tess, I am two spirited so I have not had to face the pain in the same way as you... my heart weeps for our tribe because we are so misunderstood... so many see us as freaks and mental cases that I often weep just thinking about it... Let me encourage you to seek more info from Izettl, she is a delight and so honest in her approach... maybe because of her facing the odds with her dad, but for me there is something else here... she seems to be truly open to encouraging those who have chosen this path... or been chosen I like to think... so glad you are here... please let us know how you are doing...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

...what Jeanine said. I have to say I believe it is natural (or chosen as you say). I did not view it that way initially with my dad because he changed so quick- it probably took forever for him/her as he waited until late in life, but it seemed sudden for me so I did not view it as natural. Of course I view it differently now, but largely because of others on this site and especially Jeanine.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Awww Izettl... you are healing balm, we are all applying here to our broken hearts... such a beautiful young woman to be walking amongst old spirits like us... I do think that we as a tribe have been captured in a spell of physical change... where for thousands fof years we have been mostly about spiritual change... just a rough place in the road... a bump so to speak... pray for us... more and more of us are waking up each day... realizing we are and were the keepers of God's secret book of love for man and womankind... through the road is long and winding... our true father in heaven will welcome us with open arms... and burn away the gifts of hurt and pain our earthly fathers gave to us...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

perfectly noted Jeanine.


jeanine 5 years ago

Izetti, I heard you feel this winding down for you... I do appreciate you running this hud for so long... it has been good for me... to explore and feel safe here with you...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

J~ it was good to give this story an update on the other more recent hub. When I wrote this many people thought I was drowining in it and still going through a lot of this same stuff written in this hub, but its been years and I had to recall most of this stuff as if it was current so the other hub was much easier to write because it's my current feelings. Thanks for supporting all the way from here to there and who know where else in the future.


jeanine 5 years ago

I agree, but thee are some conversations in this hub that I need you to save, if not I will save them, because some of the ideas about a two spirited creative are new a fresh , not like those that have been written in the past... so I am thankful for that... your conversations are raw here also, so there's some stuff we can use for future endeavors... I love this hub, it's like my first Christmas with you... and I agree the new one is an update... there's some grit in this one though because I was just letting some of it fly and so were you...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

This hub is priceless in the comment comment section- I'm still leaving it up of course and drawing a lot of good material form it.


Phenalli 5 years ago

I stumbled across this hub by accident in my search to find out ways to help my family. My spouse is Transgendered, MTF, but has not come out to anyone but me and a few trans friends. We have two children, 14 and 6, our eldest knows, but hasn't seen it much, and it really hit home what you have said about feeling like you lost your dad. That was his biggest fear when we told him what his dad was (we were both there to tell him in a comfortable setting), we both reassured him that he would NEVER lose his dad, ever.

My spouse lives mostly as a man, but dresses up nightly after the kids are in bed, and occasionally goes out as a woman with friends or with me. The greatest fear he has expressed to me is that one day he will not be able to take it anymore, and will transition and lose all of us. It is a fear of mine as well, as I do not know how I will handle it if it happens, I hope I take it well and we can be the best friends, lovers, and soul mates we are now.

I do also notice the childishness that my spouse goes through with the heavy makeup and clothing, just like many here have experienced. Although I believe part of that is the desire to pass as a woman, even though you have the features of a man (beard, heavier eyebrows, etc). But I have also noticed that the more my spouse ventures out as a woman, the more relaxed she becomes AS a woman, starting to want more casual clothing, spring and summer wear and less of the stereotypical blond bombshell look with tight skirts and such.

You all have given me much food for thought, right now, my eldest knows, but its not in his face every day since my spouse cannot transition due to his job and his parents (who do not know and are not the most stable people, who also badly abused my spouse as a child). Above all, both my and my spouses concern in this is our children, in making sure their world does not come unraveled in the process of their father finding him/herself.

It is a serious dilemma, because not only do we have a 14 year old who knows, we have a 6 year old who doesn't really know, but is now showing tendencies to being twin nature as well, without any influence from his father, who hides his dressing out as a woman so as to NOT influence him. Currently we encourage anything he feels the need to do (our 6 year old) and do the same for our eldest, with the opinion of "they will be what they will be".

Do you think it would help our eldest if we include him in his fathers other life? Like visiting some of my spouses trans friends who aren't in those stages of girlhood and going events that are family centered for trans people? Above all we want him and our youngest to always feel loved and secure in the knowledge that both of his parents are there for him, and aren't going to abandon him, or try to make him change who he is.

Thank you for any insight, and thank you from the depths of my soul for being brave and writing what you have for everyone to benefit from.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Phenalli, sorry you are having to face this, at this time... I am a friend of Izetti's and if you read back up through our comments to each other... you may be able to relieve some of his stress by more study... I print some other info for you not and let you go read... the medical community has said that transition to the other sex is the only relief... which is not true... transsexuals are a fringe group of my tribe, a tribe throughout history the has been advisers to kings and queens for thousands of years... trans has only been around for about 60 or 70 years... two spirited people... google it...

Unlike European Americans, gender or sexual divergence did not threaten the Indians. Berdache males in particular often became healers, surgeons, counselors, therapists, high religious priests, shamans, witch doctors and medicine men. They were regarded as a kind of "holy men." Berdache males could also become one of the multiple wives of Indian braves and, in rare cases, of genetic females who became "men" by proving themselves as warriors. The term berdache" is, of course, a generic one, as they were called by different -terms depending on the tribe. They were "winktes" in the Lakota Sioux, "Nadle" in Navaho tribes, "Shamans" in the Mojave and "Mahu" in the Polynesian culture of Tahiti.

Since the berdache could mix characteristics of both genders, they were viewed as having a special status as if "blessed" by the gods. They were thought to be the "middle gender," and seen as prophets and visionaries having an almost mystic and psychic vision into the future. They were often consulted by tribal elders and chieftains because they were thought to have a kind of "universal knowledge" and special connection to the "great spirit."

It is extremely interesting to note that the concept of a "transsexual" is a Western one based on the notion that there are two "opposite" sexes with distinct, culturally "Approved" gender characteristics. Western philosophy seems much narrower in this respect than Eastern philosophies as it allows only for strict stereotypes. Setting up a rigid dichotomy of paired opposites allows little tolerance for cultural and social variances of what is perceived to be masculine or feminine. With these narrow constrictions on all behavior, it is little wonder that we live in such a neurotic and violent society. With little room to express the total spectrum of human emotion from nurturing to assertive behavior, people have to hide or ignore some of the basic emotional outlets ascribed to one gender or the other. Only recently do we see a social acceptance of men "in touch" with their feminine side, or assertive women who, as the book says, "...run with the wolves."

Because of these polar stereotypes, people who are merely dissatisfied with their GENDER ROLE feel they have only ONE alternative: to anatomically become the other sex through surgery. Since this was impossible before the surgical techniques and synthesized hormones of the 20th century, Native American Indians allowed for more gender role flexibility without the social stigma of our modern culture. In our myopic modern society, restrictive western social values see only two diametrically opposed possibilities, yin OR yang, rather than the unifying combination of both in an androgynous mix. "Wendy Susan Parker"


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Phenalli~ There is no easy way or compromise concerning this with children. If they take it "well" I'd actually worry. It's best to talk about their concerns. As a kid everything was decided by adults and it never felt like we were considered. This situation is like that. While my dad dressed as a woman (transvestite) openly when I was a kid, I never knew any different and I didn't have parents that took the time to explain anything to me. It's nice to explain things but don't expect them to totally understand the gravitation of the situation either. Remember kids think about 'how does this effect me today', they're not thinking or even comprehending what tomorrow or certainly many years from now might look like if dad changed.

It will hit home and be a reality if/when your husband transitions fully. Right now, your kids don't care much about this or "get it" because things seem pretty normal on the outside- dad is doing these things as you say, after they're in bed.

My suspicions is he will want to change without a doubt. Most guys postpone for families and there is resentment all around.

I'd have to ask you is this what you wanted out of a marriage? It takes a lot, that even my mom couldn't handle after many years (about 16 of him dressing up) before they divorced. It wasn't what she pictured her marriage to be, but she lived a life and a lie for him. It was all about him, and she never knew when or if things would be more than just his dressing up.

Also one note here- it is very hard for a child to know such a thing and also know that others inthe family do not know. It's forcing a secret onto him. I know you do not intend it that way at all, but it was the worst aspect of it for me. To have a big huge secret from my family. The sooner you tell the other family the better- this will hang over your oldest's head. I can tell you this directly from experience. I would encourage you not to expose your oldes tto anymore until this is no longer a secret among other family. You can't simultanesouly tell a kid this is OK but then not tell any other family- they are intuitive and know that there must be something "not OK" if we're not telling grandpa and grandma. I hope you know what I mean about this. As a parent I watch what I say and what I do and hope they match up damn good. So if you tell your son this is OK, act like it too and not keep it a secret from other family. I know its incredibly hard to tell family- my dad never did. Because of this, his life felt shameful and secretive to me.

Thanks so much for reaching out with your story and hope you come back. I am passionate about this topic, maybe too blunt because emotions are still there, but hopefully you can see where it comes from...love. Nobody really knows how to do this best, I'm just giving you my perception of your current situation as is "Jeanine" who has the "other" perspective.


Jeanine 5 years ago

Izettl is right, if he can't see that he is part of something much bigger, and that's not a bad thing, just a different thing, then one has to take an honest approach to transition... set realistic goals, learn what women are really like, instead of what he believes them to be... how different he will really be after transition, or how very much the same he'll be after it...I myself could never hurt the one I live within, I love him to much, but there are many you hate themselves or the body they live or have lived within all this time... my beliefs are different because I have had the opportunity to explore and know both sides of myself...all the wonderful manly parts, ego, logic, with a testosterone drive... yet have had the delicate touch of a flower so sweet, I had to stop and enjoy her...simple, educated, emotionally mature, helped into coming of age with hormone replacement therapy... allowing me to arrest the brain and give it real moments of peace, with both of my sides co existing within one body... normalcy in an abnormal way... so to speak... a team of two... and the two shall be as one... which is most of all of you here on earth, you all know you are male of female... we are two, so you will never know me nor I will ever know you... what the two spirit approach offers to us, is a respect for all things that are good about both... a respect for being a man and embracing, some of the hard decisions that men have to make... also a wonderful place of peace dwells there in his heart that is her, so slight and shy, she would never think or consider leaving him for a moment, the perfect love, never causing me trouble always there if I was lonely, comforting to me all the while, encouraging me to not to give in or up, but to find a way for both of us to survive... yes I believe in the other perspective... one where both are in love with love and live in life as one, bound together forever and ever....


Jeanine 5 years ago

Phenalli, one thing I forgot to say, you are an amazingly strong woman for trying to understand. This is not an easy road, so know the more you know, the better you will be equipped to find the answers for you seek... Izetti is right in that if he is not going to try and stay within this body given, he must be as honest with you all as he can be... I do believe he is trying , but also am in agreement that he will transition, so do not be blind sided... he has a lot to deal with inside his head... love to you brave girl, tell her she can be the mommy for a year... that will grow her up some... I have a wonderful wife like that, and it did change my entire outlook on what I might be in for... my children were young and it was a bitch... an easy choice for me to stay grounded and not go off the deep end... I really appreciate that in her now, but in my teen years and as trans we all go through them, I hated her at times, I thought,, but hey all teenage girls say that hate their moms at times... I truly love her in a way, that I could have never known if she had just let me do it my way... don't give up... take her into your arms and make her feel and experience what she is missing...love is so powerful... use yours to make her a good girl... other wise you and your family, get really hurt and possibly left behind... the disorder that accompanies this gift is massive...


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I really like the way Jeanine describes how she came to terms with both. Here's the deal...I saw the turmoil in my dad and hatred at tims for one sex or the other- both a part of him. THe problem is, many MTF TS instantly begin to push away and even hate the male aspect of them- of course they are happier (or think) as a female or dressing up as one at least.

Phenalli~ what I'm concerned about in your case is there may come a day when your husband completely drops his male "profile" and that is the person you married, that is your partner. My dad, once he changed, completely neglected his male side and explored the female side with no inhibition for several years before settling down again to live more as both. At best I think Jeanine and I want you to know what is possibly ahead. The transition part was unbearable for me to be around my dad- such silliness, selfishness, extravagence- to know his daughter is stuggling with college bills when he promised me he'd pay, but suddenly changed his mind because he/she needed designer clothes, not ordinary ones, but the best of the best hair, make-up, clothes, etc. The selfishness is unbearable for most family members.

Most TS do not know or explore the options of being content or happy with two residing in one body and leaving the body as is. This is what Jeanine is talking about and I believe it to be very true.

Phenalli, you are doing things different than what occurred in my family; one you have told your child some of what is going on. Even the young one understands something is going on or will very soon- they are so smart and intuitive. My mom hung on to the hope that nothing would escalate, just dressing up, and him going out with friends, but it sounds all too familiar the road my dad went, then later got a sex change and I believed always intended to. As Jeanine says 'don't be blindsided.' And yes, love is powerful and your husband is dealing with things that you can't even try to comprehend but just be there. best of luck.


jeanine 5 years ago

Phenalli, all the thing Izetti just said are true, unless you give him the works on what it's really like to be a woman,he will be romantically involved with his image of his woman... which is a fantasy, change today if you can, it's her job to clean the toilets from now on, cook and buy groceries on a budget, she must be happy and pleasantly ready to please you because you have allowed her to practice... if she is to dress, take her to a club of real pretty drag queen, not to a real club with young people, the reason is, the younger girls with embrace her odd behavior, drag queens are mostly serious men working a job, so they will be as brutal as it gets... don't try and help her dress, it want do any good anyway, let her continue to buy things that are to tight, to short, and so not something real women would ever wear... like Izettl said, the hardest part will be the selfishness that she will not even notice... if there are any babies, she can take care of, especially new borns, let him keep the child over night for as long as the mom will allow...that three week no sleep thing when the baby comes home is a real thing... men haven't a clue... and trans are men, from my tribe, who are drunk with the idea that they are women... only a man would dream he was a woman... what woman ever dreams that...lol... surely not any genetic girls, think about it, tell me what you dream... it's not that you are a woman...lol... is it...


Tess_wegner profile image

Tess_wegner 5 years ago

All you have said is true Jeanine and unless you transition you cant truely know what to expect.

Your later half of your comment will surely sort out a cd from a ts,what I found was different and as you say not so glam and every day choirs but I will tell you something,you "adapt"and keep learning (as its a continuous process)but I personaly would never go back to a male life style.

Its hard work but I feel so comfortable in my body and thats something for me thats priceless.

I dont have kids so I cant and wont comment on that,but its not all hardwork as they say.

Counsolers do a fantastic job and reconize a ts and try to stop a cd from a big mistake,as you say (the tight clothes ,blond bombshell is usually a fantasy or a newby)with no disrespect intended.

The argument would go the other way too,a woman who wants to be a man,labouring out in the weather getting dirty hands etc...down side to being male.


jeanine 5 years ago

Oh Tess, you are so much more knowledgable on all of this,and I am so glad you are happy and it makes me smile.. and you are right about the continued learning,so many of us have been taken into areas that we are not strong in, so I'm always going to err on the side of caution... Tess, Phenallis husband is just coming the grips with her self so you probably need to stay in on this conversation, for a real perspective for Phenalli, I can add the two spirit side of our tribe but you can also add a perspective that neither Izettl or myself have... and you are always mature in your answers, so I long for the day when all of us are actually talking and seeing our own diversity as a good thing... I agree, it's the same for both sexes, we all need to have more real life experiences, and yes to hold a child and love him, is the most wonderful thing any woman or man could or can ever imagine.. I love that you did this before children and that's a real thing... I want to help us all be who we are supposed to be... pray for this couple, you know how hard this can be, and how brutal some of this is.... keep them close to your heart... thanks for all you do... J


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tess~ it's so interesting to have three different viewpoints here; one of the family of a TS (mine), one of a TS (you), and one of two-spirited with no surgery (Jeanine). I am thankful for all the viewpoints and realize we can't be in each others shoes. I know for my dad, it was probably torment being a man, not because he ever told me or let me into his life much at all, but because I have had the opportunity to read comments from other TS on here.

Somehow, with family, the difficulty is getting on the same page and everybody to be happy with needs met. Tess you mentioned you did not have kids- that must have made it easier for sure. You go through a huge learning experience after transitioning and you need to go through that of course- it's a big time for a TS. However, with family, they are left to wonder where they fit in and mostly from what I know about family, is they feel left behind.

I wish my dad would have gone through a counselor but he did everything out of the country.It is so good to hear you're happy- I often don't get the feeling my dad is. he/she talks as if it wasn't a choice and wish it wasn't her only way out.

As for "Phenalli" who commented above, I see some of my mom in her. Not truly knowing what is coming down the pike and hubby sort of leading her along. I'm not sure, it may work out, but I really agree with you that counselors are crucial to help CD figure things out. THank you so much for stopping by.


Aahron Hardcastle profile image

Aahron Hardcastle 5 years ago from East Coast

I just read this story because I saw it on the side bar of an article I just finished writing. This is so horrible! My heart goes out. I used to be a crossdresser and found myself being very selfish too. I think, with exception to intersexed people whose parents chose the wrong gender for them, transsexuals and crossdressers are confused. I think because of gender bias and polarization, especially men become confused and think they have to create a second gender personality for all of their so called "feminine" interests when in reality, a REAL man is a well rounded, right and left brain thinking androgynous sort. No need to change your sex or attempt to fool others you are the opposite sex, just realize who you are and go with it. No matter how much surgery or implants one obtains, a man will never really become a woman nor will a woman become a man. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it is true. MtF trans folks still think like men because they are STILL men.


tess_wegner 5 years ago

Thank you Jeanine and izetti for your kind words and yes would love to join in on the conversation with Phenallis.

Cant write more as in a hurry but will later on.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Aahron~ yes, I agree with you completely. Sometimes I wonder if they had allowed themselves as men to embrace and be OK with the feminine qualities that make a well-rounded man then they would not have to choose either sex. Being a competitive woman, I have embraced many of my masculine traits and finally came to peace with not being less of a woman because of it. But admittedly things with my dad had me questioning if I was to tomboyish or not enough 100% woman.

My dad, as a man, was very much man...don't show emotions...watch sports religiously, career oriented. My mom told me he wrote very deep and sensitive poetry when she first met him, but since he began dressing up, she saw less of the feminine softer traits and more of the outside glam with his dressing up.

It is so easy for me to agree with you on this one and interesting to know you have had some experience in this area so I know my thoughts are not too off base. Thank you for your input Aahron.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Tes~ come back any time when you have time. I love your input here. You are wise and extrememly gracious enough to chat about this.


Phenalli 5 years ago

Thank you all for your insight and points, you give me a ton of food for thought. I have noticed that my spouse has started buying more expensive things in the past few years, some of which I don't know about until it arrives in the mail. I am going to ruminate on these posts for a while and see what my brain makes of it. :)

Thanks again.


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Phenali~ I really do hope you consider what has been said here. From my experience, the family came second to the dressing up and soon, possibly, wanting to be a woman. It's such a focus to them and I know for my dad the dressing up soon became not enough and you have to be willing- right now- to go all the way with your husband if he chooses a sex change. Best of luck to you.


Jeanine 5 years ago

I agree with Izetti... on this one, how ever you can start a campaign to get him on a good OCD medication and it will help with the obsessing... most of us do not know that and it's one of the reasons the family comes second... it's so obsessive at the beginning that most of us cut our *&^% off... now as funny as that sounds... it's not really funny at all.... after we are sure we will feel much better and not obsess anymore... that doesn't happen... so we are left to our own mistakes... and joys also... but because this is such a private thing to the Trans... he hasn't included his family so he doesn't know how to include his family now... Tess can give a better account of the good things that can happen also... I'm going to give the assessment of what happens if you have children, like you do in this case... take him now to get the meds and it will at least slow the process to a point you and he can make mature and steady decisions... other wise you can't stop it...it is thrust in his soul... the meds allow the mind to not stay in euphoria... the dressing is a contact high, as soon as he/she feels the material, we are in another world... ocb meds help us stay grounded and keeps us from slipping away....


izettl profile image

izettl 5 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I agree- things need to be sorted out psychologically, but most of all know that you'll(phenalli) be riding his roller coaster for a while. There is a lot of sorting to do within trans. Remember how you explored things in your youth.

Jeanine I think you painted a very real picture of all this- thanks for stopping by.


Sri 5 years ago

got an opportunity to read your article almost few years after which you had posted. your story got my attention as I was googling how people react when their father turns a transgender.

I am 31 year old Indian, living in woodbridge NJ. I am married and I have a daughter who is 6. off late I found my father has become transgender, wearing all kinds of womens clothing, jewels, make up and what not.

He still wears a men's apparel while at home or at relatives place. However when he is out on his own he wears womens apparel, his passport is in a womens name, his voter ID is in womens name. He has even started a NGO for helping transgendered people back in India. So bottom line, he is living a duel life with duel identity.

I am shocked and embarresed to see him like this. I feel that I need a dad and not a mom. I havent spoken to him ever since I got to know about his activity, except last tuesday, which was his 60th birthday.

How do I deal with him. End of the day I already have a mom who gave birth to me, I dont need another mom through my transgendered father, my daughter needs a grand father, I dont know how my wife and her family will react to this..

I am confused. I would appreciate if you could suggest me how do I go about handling this? Since you have gone through this already, I believe your perspective will help me.


jeanine 5 years ago

Sri, He is not doing it to hurt you... he is doing it to try and stop the pain that is inside of him... if you read this hub, you will know I don't believe in Surgery to solve the challenge... you must take a serious look at what your father is doing... to him he has denied himself all of your young life,, you must realize he has wanted to change all of his life more than likely... and just feels comfortable enough to do it now... I'm sure he feels he has given the best years of his life to his family and now wants some peace of mind himself... please try and understand...it's so natural for him that he doesn't see the problem... both male and female have been traveling down the same road in his life for years... so he sees nothing wrong with putting on a dress in that he has put on a man's suit all of his life..for him it's no difference... for you it is because you know you are male... for him it's quite different... he has never known if he was male or female... the curse and blessing of being two spirited...


quietgirl94 4 years ago

This made me tear up. My father is also a transsexual, but it is way recent. I found out when I was about 13. I am now almost 17. It is the hardest things I have had to deal with. I was a daddys girl. He dressed up at night and wore makeup every night when I was sleeping. I never knew, never suspected. It was a huge secret all my life. Every time I'm with him I can hear my dad... But I can't see him. It's heartbreaking. He tries to tell me he's the same person, nothing's different. But to me, everything is different.


jeanine 4 years ago

Quietgirl... I am so sorry, please feel free to talk here, because Izetti has set this up for people to find comforter... I know none of us as trans can understand your pain or we wouldn't do that to any of you... Izdetti can help so share you heart and heal... I know it is very different and you must tell him how you feel... he is showing you how he feels so you must do the same... he'll say stop hurting me... then you can say, I'm only treating you the same way as you have treated me... make it a level playing field or you will spend years tryingto service his needs instead of your own... she is younger that you now socially so you need to let her know that you know that... she is 12 or 13 at best emotionally so ou have pasted that place in your life... he is no longer your authority... when he gave up his fatherhood, he gave up that part also... do not let him pull that card out ever again... make sure he/she knows that... she is just another teenage girl at this point so she must learn... she gave up part of herself to look the part... she has no right to ask you how you feel now, other than being a girl down the street that you know and who wants to be your friend... can't have both... tell her... she has to hear it... and she will throw a temper fit but so be it... she is the younger here now and you are the senior... she chose ... you did not... but she is so immature that she doesn't even know what she has chosen... do not let her boss you around anymore...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Quietgirl~ It is especially difficult to have a ghost of a dad around. This is the way I still feel. My dad has also told me to call him dad still and for my daughter to call him grandpa, but it doesn't feel right because it is not the dad I knew. Also I understand about feeling like most of your childhood was a lie. What many transsexuals overlook is that the lie is probably the hardest thing on the children. Our childhood is our foundation and when that was messed up, it messes with us. You miss your "old dad" and there's just enough there right now to remind you of him, but he's really not all there. Some of these feelings never subside or may take a long time to. I've just learned that I have to have a different relationship with my dad- it is different and i have to move ahead with that notion. Children are put in a hard spot because they are so very fragile when young and the transsexual is also just as fragile. It is expected and right for hte child to be vulnerable and easily hurt, but it is hard to see an adult, like the transsexual, in the same scenario. It feels as if they are being selfish, taking that vulnerability form the child.

It's never easy to find out a parent had a secret life so I understand exactly where you are coming from and hope you've had a chance to read other comments here and understand even more. My dad literally changed overnight and it's been years for me to get used to so it may take some time for you too, and that's OK.

One thing "Jeanine" in the comment above is right about is the fact that you must share your feelings to your dad too. We kids tend to shut up and deal with it alone about our transsexual parent. We don't want to hurt their feelings. I did this with my dad and now I really wished I had shared more of my thoughts and feelings...and I feel that it's too late. THe scars are covered up now and no use peeling away again.


Jeanine 4 years ago

izettl, is right n that you must tell him how you feel... so don't wait... it is never easy and he/she will always think you are picking on her, but you must for your on health... she will survive and she really is just in her teen years so let her scream... life is a bitch sometimes...


jeanine 4 years ago

Yes he is and will always be your dad... this is a terrible disorder for the families.. but I am in hopes that one day soon, maybe even with some of the writing we may do... my community will see another door opening for us.... you know I believe that we are made perfect and are supposed to be two... part of that is within me and part is how unhappy I see so many of my sisters when they reach the other side and realize they are still them.. him and her are still with them and that's a sobering moment for all of us... especially if you cut the part off that you thought was all him and realize that didn't make him go away... just as we all tried for years to make her go away... that didn't work so we took the doctors advice and tried it their way... the reality is we are separate as a tribe and will always be both... having the characteristics of man and woman... we are men who are very gentle... and have more influences in your history than you even are aware of... each time men go to the rest room... we are in their minds... it says gentlemen... and we are where that came from... in your bible it says be in the spirit... we are that tribe that taught early man what the spirit was... your marriage vows whisper our presence... and the two shall be as one... take a look around our presence has been here as long as you have... these days are dark for my tribe but there were other dark days and we survived... even you genetic girls all taught by your mothers to look for a gentleman...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I had to delete that last comment u responded to because someone thought it would be funny (because apparently this article is for entertainment purposes)to post a comment under my name. That won't be tolerated here. This site is for people to understand each other, understand themselves, and get info out to those its useful to.

The issues here are much deeper then just transsexuality because all those who have transistioned or want to transition have a unique relationship with their family (my dad in my case) and some of the issue here is that people are thinking that I have a not-so-good relationship solely because he is a transsexual but people do not know the past with each and everyone of us and the relationship we've had before our transsexual fmaily member changed.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hope you got it straighten out..


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Thank you izettl for creating this hub's topic. It is not only wonderful but also disconcerting to see the viewpoint of the children dealing with a parent who is transgender. I am looking for some viewpoints on my situation, relating to this issue. I am 43yo male,with a 6yo son,23yo step daughter, divorced and have been crossdressing secretly all my life, starting at around 7yo. I have tried to purge myself several times of this obsession and am now seriously considering transitioning. Im concerned primairly about my 6yo son. How will he be affected and should I not transition,for his sake? He is the most important thing in my life,and don't want to do the wrong thing for him. Its terrible that everyone has to pay for my choices in life,Though I love him dearly,I really wish I would have went through with this 10 years ago....Whats best for the Children?


Mike 4 years ago

It wouldn't be so bad if my pops wasn't so secretive about it. I love him and he's done everything he could to see me be successful. He's my dad, he bailed me out when I embarrassed him, of course I'd do the same for him and a man or modified-man. I just wish he'd talk about it...it's too confusing.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Ultimately who is the winner in the transition. Seems that most if not all the children of parents who are transgender, feel self guilt,loss or a sense of losing part of their entire existance, they feel some part responsible and most feel left out and deceived, amongst many other feelings and thoughts, seems very few embrace and rejoice in their newly changed parent, without somehow feeling like victoms of the cruel circumstances of such a twisted world in which they live. Only being partially said, I cant speak for the children and at best, am trying to truely understand, not only for them but for my own existence, because I need to know, I am that parent! I myself live in a world that is wrong, that I cant make sense of, it is filled with years of neglect and self denial, with only myself too blame. With so many years fading into the past and what seems, so little left,as the parent now, I am running out of time. If I wait, it will be to late, I will have deprived myself of being whole,and loss of all the experiences that a biological female takes part in while growing up. Still, I know of my past mistakes, how can I forget them, they are my tormentors and my mind has created them from years of knowing who I was suppose to be, and keeping myself from being that person, there were always so many reasons to hold off and now it has caught up with me. The years of forcing myself too be that masculine figure, doing all the manly things ,as a cover, that was suppose to influence myself into believing im a man and that my constant feelings of being someone else were unfounded, an illusion, some sort of fantasy. I cant keep staying one step ahead of these feelings and unfortunatly im in conflict again, its not my 6 year old sons fault, that daddy wants to be mommy. Each person,no matter what you are diciding upon, will finally make your choice, and in this type of situation it may never be the right time, with no real winners. Because everyone effected, the child, the family and friends, your co-workers and myself will lose something on this battleground. I know each situation is different but for mine I know in my heart that even with a transition, I will still do my best to be a good parent, no matter what body I choose to live in. I have so much to give of myself, if my son,my family,and my friends allow. Always stuck NtheMiddle!


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Mike, I cant answer for your father, but I myself wasn't ready to let the world see the person I feel I am. so at best, I kept it hidden so as not to hurt the people that I hold closest, and still fulfill a small part of my needs. Also for many decades I felt that the feeling would go away, so why out myself over nothing, destroying everything that I have worked for and possibly losing everyone that I love. Everyone has to make the decision on their own time. Im embarrased and afraid, what will I lose and what will others think. What will my son, my family and friends think and say. Sometimes I suppose, its easier to avoid the situation than have to deal with it. Im speaking about both sides, you and your father, myself and my family. Avoid the situation, hence the secrecy, now we dont have to deal with it. No matter how bad it hurts, its always better to try and deal with the situation without being confrontational. I just hope that im welcomed and not ridiculed. Family support is so important.


Jeanine 4 years ago

if you look back up the way here, there is massive discussion between, Izetti and myself... I am a two spirited individual and if you look closely so are you... two spirit is the umbrella that all gender variant individuals fall under... trans have actually only been around about seventy years... two spirited people have been here since the beginning of time... we were advisers to Kings and queens all over the world... keepers of the secrets of God...and until Christianity came on the scene we were the Holy men of most tribes...revered as marriage counselors and held in high esteem for our knowledge of both... we have both to help a hurting world heal... what has happened is the medical community has sold us a bill of goods... because know one in America knows who we were and are in the worlds history, the doctors are unaware that they are killing our tribe off...for thousands of years we have been with Kings and queens, the last seventy years since the medical community has been helping us, we have been relegated to being the freaks on the Jerry Springer show... we are men that understand both not women... the med community says oh, if you are not a man you must be a woman... we do not fit in a binary system... late transition should never be considered in totality... Our young ones in this tribe, have both options, if you are still in your body, then you are supposed to take your place as an elder, so the reason there is so much shame, and secrecy is lack of education... your parents, mostly your dad, had no clue that you are born to be a king or a friend to a king... I am so sorry for their ignorance but that does not make you innocent... if you give in to society and try to live within their binary code, you will not find peace... again this does not apply to our younger brothers and sisters... they have the choice still... read the other hubs here and listen to the conversations between Izetti and myself... there are winners but you have to see who you really are... the reason for so much angst is you have suppressed your fem side for so long, you more than likely have OCD on top of it and it has twisted your perspective... I would suggest you wait just a little longer... find a good therapist,not a transsexual, and a good endo, to give you HRT and the blockers you need... then do your face before you ever start transition... what this will do is give you the time to relearn what you have suppressed for so many years... Sara you already know the out come is going to be bad for your children, talk to Izettl and she will tell you, Mike is the same way... I have spent years with our kind and have seen nothing but heart ache in later transitions... I finally came to this question for my own transition..." If I am a woman inside, which this medical community says I am, and I do have all the same desires as you, I feel like a woman, want all the same things you want, if I am that woman living in this body of a man... what woman would ever let a man harm her child... that's right... none, not one, in fact I would kill any man, including the one I live within, if he tried to hurt my children... understand" so what bothers me most about transsexuals is... they always move to fast into transition after they finally decide to change and they continue to make decisions like men... Sara, if you are truly a woman, you will see that I am right about you hurting your child... you are not woman, you are two spirited... you are more being both... how is it the medical community can make me more by making me less... they have need for me to be one or the other... they even advertise it... to make us one... look pass the medical guys for a moment and see who you are in the eyes of God... remember who you are, remember the time before the Christians cast us out of our own dominion.. when we were the seers and we were the tellers of all truth... be proud of who you are, for what is happening to day is the beginning of our resurgence onto the worlds scene... one day we will no longer try and change the body, for we will look and see who we are again... not one or the other but both... I had parents who did not try and stop me, but kept me cloistered away, so I do not hate the body I live in, but just like you Sara I know it's just a body... I love him and what he has done for me in my life, he has let me have a wife... everyone needs one...lol even women need one... let me see what amazing it is how men make love to women and the miracle of birth is witnessed... damnation I'm glad she did that and not me... although I'm sure the romantic side of being pregnant is paramount in all of our minds... just ask a GG how romantic that was.. geez we are thinking like men again... and the money is so much better living within this mans body I can't believe it... so are you fighting for womens right, because when you give up this body, that God has given to to navigate and help others is gone, you will be less.. less power, less peace, less in every situation... now tell me again why you are a woman, and want to be a in a womans body... I fell in love with my guy early own... but again my life is different... I have known all my life that I am not like the rest... remember we all say that... I knew at 3 or 4 I hear all my sisters say... I say well good for you... what did you do with it... you hid it and it wasn't your fault... I know your father scared you and your mother warned you that he would be mad... and that was wrong, but you can't continue to blame them for their own ignorance... the Christians have tried to rewrite our history and wipe out the knowledge that we are the keepers of the secrets of their own God...I am in love with their God, but not with them... they are afraid we will come and tell of what He is doing today... you notice they only tal about things He did thousands of years ago... why would be... it would be because they do not know Him in the way you know Him... look closely... you can transition if you want and God knows I love what hormones do to the brain and the body... but the body does not make you a woman... nor a man... it is the beautiful person you are that I'm interested in knowing... I love trans they are beautiful wonderful people, remember you will always be you...no mater which body you choose... "The Lioness within" will you let this man who you craved to look like your father, hurt your children... not me... I'm to much of a woman to do anything like that...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

HEllo everyone~ I really want in on this conversation but have been super busy the last few days. Iwill get back to this tonight after I give the comments some thought.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I have traveled on this journey for almost four decades trying to make sence of what I have always felt inside, always trying to tread lightly, so as not only too protect my own existence but not to disturb others, only to find myself the shell of a man, with no one inside, urning to be the gender that I wasn't born into. How much slower can one be, and my son senses the turmoil inside me, he knows not why but knows of the darkness inside the man he knows as his daddy. From my viewpoint the only thing that somewhat seems to move fast is the final stages of medically becoming whole, because the transgendered have been waiting a decade or more to make it to this final stage, whilst never intending to hurt the ones they love(their children, their family, their friends), only trying to make right of what has felt so wrong for so many years. I believe the need for the final stages to be somewhat fast is due to all the social constraints forced upon us by ourselves , men should look like men, women should look like women, with very little tolerance for the gray area in the middle. Gray areas tend to fluctuate with social control and in most cases those who venture to exist within a gray area are labeled as social outcast and subject to physical and mental abuse. Thus the need to trasition quickly to minimize any conflict within the gray zone.(One day a man the next day a woman) or vise versa. To the children it may seem a cruel trick, deceit, or a lie,but im starting to think it is a fight or flight response, for the transgendered individual to make it to the other side, with as little damage as possible. The question then is how do we handle the children and why do they feel so disconcerted? Whats needed is a common ground, an answer for which will never completely satisfy the children or their transgendered parent, but will meet NtheMiddle to at best help both understand and come to terms with this situation. Non confrontational communication!


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Another area that needs covered is not at all simple, if only it was so easy to be open from the begining, when one initually feels that a need exist. The problem is, no one persons situation is the same and this makes the problem. Very few transgender people know immediatly that they are what they are, leaving all the rest to make this discovery over the course of time, leaving in their wake, a past to deal with. For some that past is small but for others like myself it has taken the best part of four decades to make that realization, and that is alot of history,children,family,friends,jobs,etc. I was slow to make sense of who I really was or slow to come to grips with the decision to transition, but feel I am ready, which leaves more history for me to deal with. I personally feel compelled to take care of my obligations, over everything else,take care of my obligations instead of runing from them. This meaning I will take all that comes with my decision to transition,good and bad, try to work it out with everyone instead of secretly continuning on with the transition without anyone knowing, thus leading to isolation from all my past,possibly including my children. Take responsibility for what im about to do, but I see for others, they have chosen to run from those obligations, leaving their children hurt and confused. Each person must make this choice because the longer you wait the more complicated it usually becomes. I hope what I have posted here makes sense, I am extremely exhausted, no sleep, will resume another day. @izettl- looking forward to your comments and am thankful that you have rejoined this discussion. Nothing but love! Sincerely,Sara


jeanine 4 years ago

Oh Sara, I am so sorry and you do have to do what you ned to do...for myself, it's easier, not easy, to not hurt the ones I love... I believe that if we made it this far in this body, we are supposed to be here... I think transition for older trans especially is based on the years of denial... like a sore without the right meds... because you haven't addressed it, it continues to grow inside... cancer is like this in some ways also...consuming... I believe that transition so traumatizes the children that it scars for life... my own childrens belief system is based in what I have taught them... if I change who I am, it changes what I have said also... most trans still think like men to me... they say well my family will except it eventually, that is such a non female thought to me... my body doesn't male me male or female, my mind does... Sara are you doing HRT yet and if not I would suggest that you start immediately, these drugs are amazing and it does give the mind some relief...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine, as for any decision that we must make in life, no matter what that decision might be, each individual will ultimately determine when to make that decision and to what degree that decision is carried out, with some choosing not to make a decision at all, that is what makes each of us, as human beings, unique. Up till now I have chosen to be secretive, I've had my own reasons as does each individual has. I feel that I am fairly open minded and I have tried to teach my children this, from the food they eat to how they interact with others, unfortunately not everyone is as understanding.... I am not currently on HRT, and have an appointment with a doctor too set a date for an orchilectomy, then I will likely only need small ammounts of estradiol with little to no anti-androgen. With the testicals removed and my body producing very little natural tostesterone, the estrogen should redistribute budy fat,reduce muscle mass,partially femenize facial features and possibly enhance my breast growth while making me emotionally feel female, (mentally I already feel female). This is along with and not limited to, I have been dropping little hints to my 6yo son, to start prepairing him,so that he has time to transition with me, instead of me leaving him in the dark untill I drop the "Bomb"(which I feel is part of the reason why so many people feel betrayed from a loved ones transition. I have also discussed my thoughts with my younger brother,who is also open minded and seems unaffected and jokingly inquisitive about me having breast,lol. Not wanting to complicate my post last night, I invited my step-daughter(ex.) to dinner whom I am still close to and ask her for support and help. She was genuinely excited and was not supprised(seeing, all the times , she as a little girl, would dress me as a woman in front of my then wife, as a game, one that I didnt mind to play.) Funny now, looking back, if she only had known then how much I wanted to be that woman she dressed me as, maybe she did know and it wasn't a secret at all. I need to ask her that question! Im sure my wife knew but that was not the reason for the decline of our marriage. Jeanine, I hope you are happy and content with being who you have chosen to be, that would make me happ for you. I myself will only be truly happy when I am anatomically a woman. Maybe this is due to social norms and not wanting to walk very long in those gray areas, but that is what I want, a goal that I have set for myself. As like any goal, it is always open for review in time, that is revisited with changing needs. Who knows, after the orchilectomy and hormones, maybe I will then be happy with myself and will reevaluate my priorities, living socially as a female with male genitalia. That would be a goal change for only myself to decide, but for now, I plan to go all the way. For now I still want to know what a unemotionally attached childs point of view would be for my situation, what are,you as the childrens,thoughts.


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Sorry for the typing errors, was in a hurry.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, hope you are well today, still sounds male to me on the decisions. When you say, I'll have an Orchiectomy first then hormones, sounds so much like a man... sorry but it's to quick...why not find a good Endo and have him guide you first... you might like keeping them for a moment... not to stay male but, one loses the pep in life when you lose that much testosterone so quickly... me I could never be one or the other, just because I hate for the world to tell me I something is wrong with me that I ned to correct... and that's what you've decided, that there was a mistake and you want to fix it... again a very predominant male behavior... to want to fix it I mean... do you have a therapist yet, or a help group that you go to regularly... if not, if need to get in one immediately... you will meet others like yourself and that's very helpful... the fact that you sound hell bent on doing this no matter what, is another male sign... are you a woman and if you've never been one, how do you know you are one... I do understand that you are more than likely OCD... are you and if you are please go get the meds for that first... your problems will not be solved by changing sex organs, you must solve them before hand if possible... do your face first, electrolysis I mean... I have friends who did their breast before their face and it cause massive trouble for her just because she was in a hurry...I know what she is saying inside to you and you need to know, the reason you are in such a hurry is she is afraid you will put it off like you have so many times before, and I do understand that part... but I'm asking you do you understand that is where the urgency is coming from, she doesn't trust you any more... look closely, we are two genders not one... once you become the body you want to you will see I am correct... and I don't have to win... I'm just telling you unless you have a massive support group in place already... you will make a mistake if you are not careful...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Mike~ I totally feel the same way. The part that becomes a problem for the children of trans is their lack of wanting to talk about it. We feel as tho we've lost part of our parent and then on top of that, they seem to talk to us less and avoid what needs to be talked about. Thanks Mike for sharing your thoughts.


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izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

SaraN the Middle~ You say the children should celebrate their new parent more. The issue usually is the trans parent can't understand why we feel grief and loss when they change because they feel like a butterfly from a cocoon- they feel great. But the gap in the bridge is how opposite the feelings are for this change between parent and child. For example it would be like your parent dying but then you meet a really good friend. Having that new awesome friend doesn't really make up for the loss of your parent.

"Mike" pointed out above that the trans parent doesn't really talk to their kids about it- we're not asking for them to get our approval, we're just wanting to talk about this big change for us. Perhaps we've gone to our parent to talk about big things in our life and this one aspect we can't- it makes us feel more distant to our "new" parent than closer.

What is their to celebrate- the awkwardness in public? THe elephant in the room no one is talking about? A different person seemed to replace our parent? Many peopel have a hard time with "new" parents replacing their old ones no matter what the circumstance is. A step-parent says they are not replacing your old parent yet a trans parent IS replacing our old parent.

I personally find it odd that Trans have "a hard time" talking about it because my dad won't talk about it but openly dressed up in full slips and women's attire when I was a kid- gee, good thing he didn't explain any of that to me or I'd be less confused (sarcasm).

Sara, my dad does not seem happy even after his change- he is so unhappy in public, so awkward about it that he won't go many places with me and it has put a damper on our relationship. Of course I hope the best for you, but the grass isn't always greener and the outside may look like a woman but the inside of a woman is what really counts.


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara ~ in your response about not letting the world see who you truly are...That is saving you from hurt, not your family. When your family finds out from you, they may have already found out from someone else like I did from my mom and that hurts more. Lying hurts more.


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I would not completly disagree that I am trying to solve this issue like a male, im doing my best. No, I do not have support group for guidance, the closest one is over an hour away and there are only eight people, whom never meet, not much support... I have been to several theropist for a short amount of time but they did not have any knowledge pertaining to this and seemed to patronize me endlessly. The only theropist locally that list transgender, advertises ,that it isn't his specialty and I have had some issues with him in the past, pertaining to my step daughter. Im still looking for a support group and a theropist. I never meant to sound like I am hell bent, I have waited this long, and though I have a goal, I realize that it will take several years or more to work this out.Thank you Jeanine, I am working on my face first and have been working on voice training, but your words hit home,maybe I do need meds before I have an orchilectomy, but I had planned, being on Hormones for an extended period of time before having SRT, just to be sure. OCD, Aren't we all, I have never been told that and feel im fairly normal and fall in the center in that area when it comes to social norms. I dont feel that the world is telling me I was made wrong, I just have always favored the female/feminine aspects in life. I am at loss for words..... Its more then crossdressing, The best I can explain, mentally I feel better about being Feminine and I want my mind and body to match that feeling. I dont want to think and act like a male any longer, I dont want to do the male/masculine things any longer, and I dont dress or wear make up overly effiminate, I dress cute and very passible. Initially I sought out izettl's hub to see what you as children think and now through you I am asking myself questions about things that I have already answered. I dont mind asking these questions again, so I can be sure I am doing the right things. izettl, I am sorry about your relationship with your father, that is what I am trying to avoid. I dont believe I said, children should celebrate more, I just mearly stated that it sseems that children are hurt more than at easy with the change and thats why I ask for insight from you. From what I research, I would have to agree with you on the point that the transgender doesn't see or understand the childs greif and in most cases shuts his or her old family out, what a shame. This is also why I am trying to understand, I dont want to make that mistake, I assume your father doesn't appreciate what he/she is missing out on(you). No disrespect to you or your father izettl, it just seems to me, such a loss, and I dont want to lose my family like this. I dont understand why he refuses to talk about it, Now that I am ready to make the transition, I have no problem answering questions my family has intrest in knowing. My step daughter ask me where did this come from and I took her back in time,giving her all the details. izettl, please explain the awkwardness in public, I dont understand, if he looks convincing what is the issue? The grass isn't always greener, I am not so much unhappy being what I have been all my life, I just feel better being that other person that I feel I am. Its complicated isn't it. izettl it saddens me that you hurt inside, I wish for you and your father a reconciliation. It seems to me you were very close(daddys little girl) and now you miss that so much....Transitioning, What a complicated subject. izettl, I came out to some friends in the past to test the water and was called a flaming homo, then they didnt want to know me. That is why I have waited till the time is right and I want everyone involved to know before I go to far into transitioning. I just need to know if there is a better way with my children. Always with love, Sara


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

As a stepfather I did say that I wasn't replacing your dad, but you can be damn sure that I will be respected and take care of things like a father should. As a transitioned transgender I will not say im replacing your dad, I am your dad/Parent only in a different body or the same body, different look. It hasn't changed how I feel for you. You are my child and I will continue to be there for you. That is who I am. izettl, would it have been any different for you, if your father would have talked to you before he started his transition and after his transition, had continued to interact with you the same way that he had before he transitioned?.... The only part that I have kept secret from my children was the crossdressing, for which I explained partially in a previous post. I want everyone Involved and or informed during the transition, so there wont be any secrets, lies, or shock, etc. hopefully that will eliminate some of my childrens loss. I hope! Then I plan to answer questions and stay in their lives. I suppose others choose to avoid their past. I still think thats wrong. That seems to me like causing an auto accident with injuries to the people in the other car and going home, leaving them there to suffer, forgetting all about it or not caring. I have because of time and my own doing created responsibilities(my children), it is now my obligation to take care of them, no matter what body or mind that I choose to live in.


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, I am so sorry you do not have support where you are, tag on here and there are a lot of support group via the Web...I know you are a good parent because you are here talking with Izettl, and it is the most important part of your transition... Children are our heritage, so how you handle it, is not only your legacy but their future belief system...the hormones will be good for you, because they do arrest the brain and let the mind begin to think again... in this area...Estrogen allows the OCD to say, well he is at least trying to do something for us...lol...also the blockers will give you a preview of what it will feel like without your testosterone... which can be very tiring, you will lose muscle mass, so you will need to get into a gym and work that fanny of yours because it does get bigger... there will be breast tissue and movement of the fat cells, but you will love that part of transition... HRt does change the brain and that is what I am talking about when I say"you are trying to solve this like a man...Hormones will ease you into being you... for your children sake... it is worth working on, to not hurt them and I know you know this... I am not trying to get you to not transition, I am only trying to get you to see, your children have an authentic picture of what a woman is... all children do because they have been together since before birth...so best to get your mom on in your brain before you try and tell them you are a woman on the inside and want to be their other mommy or their dad in another body... that pic doesn't work, dad in another body means another person to a child... they won't believe you if you continue to be him... they will however believe a much more loving person, that chooses to change for the better of their family and their own lives...paint slowly, and the painting begins to be more realistic, because you have included them in the picture... do all the things that they and even your ex expects you to do....

I know you don't want to do any of those things that are male anymore dear, but some girls do those things to so don't feel bad about being the butch for a while...remember when your folks gave you the package for Christmas and said" now be careful because the package is part of the present" well you are there again, so be very careful not to tear the package, your body is part of the present... remember the greatest carpenters and builders, measure three times, then cut...lol... be careful to not cut then have to recut again.... you only have this body...and this mind, in our case is obviously affected by it...you will do great and will love HRT... it's the greatest gift the medical community has for us... you will be amazed in that you will lose those thoughts like...

"but you can be damn sure that I will be respected and take care of things" I just laughed and laughed when I read that... not at you but with you... you will look back on that statement and howl a few years from now... hope you have a good day... also as a woman, it is not your obligation to take care of your children... it is your your very lifes blood... there is nothing more important on earth... my own thought for you today is... I hope you see how unique you are as you, and you don't have to fit into the adult world, you just need to fit into your childs world...much love to you Sara dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I have just reciently purchased this laptop and wireless so I can find some support via the internet. This im sure will not repalce a good theropist but is showing me that im not alone in the world and opening my mind to all the possibilities. Again I believe you may be right, you are not the first person to tell me that I need to use meds first and your words are starting to open my eyes to that fact. I believe that I will check into that before I have the marbles removed, I know that my mind needs reassurance but thought that an orchilectomy and HRT would be hand in hand. I am, trying to measure three times before I cut, this is why I ask so many questions. I have had Gym memberships in the past and have always used the equipment in respect to how women use a Gym so as not to build manly muscles just reduce weight to maintain a nice figure. I have found that one of the best pieces of equipment was the elliptical machine. To save money for the transition and be able to spend more time maintaining my figure, I purchased a schwinn 420 elliptical, what a great machine, It gives a great cardiovascular workout, and weight loss without building manly muscles and keeps my legs looking very toned and sexy, lol. Cant wait for the body fat redistribution, Im dyeing for my bottom to get a nice round shape. As for another point that you have hit on, that has been deeply on my mind, my picture, in my childs eyes, this weighs on me, but is one of the few things that is inevitable, I will no longer look like dad, I will look like a woman that they do not recognize and im sure will be hard for a child to understand. This one I will have to work hard to paint, very slowly, not to ruin this masterpiece, for the sake of my children.


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izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ people think that because I hurt (a lot less now as it's been 10+ yrs since my dad transitioned) or because I tell my story about it with honesty and feeling that I haven't accepted him/her or that I'm not "over it", but not true. I accepted my dad after the initial "shock" because I had always been close to him until he retired and moved and I didn't see him for almost two years. I emailed every day and never did he tell me that he was taking hormones or preparing for SRS. So it was a shock. My dad never ever told me he was a crossdresser, but of I found out from other people. I knew but never had a name for what he did because I was so little when he openly dressed that way. Then as I got older, he hid it. Then I knew or thought it was supposed to be a secret and that was the first biggest secret and lie that came between us.

Yes, the biggest mistake is not talking to your kids about it. Of course a trans can't expect their kids to have a party about it or to have tons of questions right away or to be as excited as you are about the transition. But keep the communication open. My dad made a comment once that even he didn't understand it so we never really talked about it. Kids are afraid to ask questions because we want to be supportive- you're the only dad we have. I thought questions would offend my dad so I didn't ask any. Keep in mind, we want our parents to be happy too. I would have never wanted my dad to be miserable and I wish I knew over the years how much it burned inside him to be a woman. If I had known or been a part of his journey, just one little part of it, that probably would have helped bridge a lot of gaps. Seeing my dad go from a normal looking man to a woman all at once was a bit much.

I am so happy that many trans parents who've commented here are concerned for their kids and keep them in their thoughts- this is good. I said before... but I'll say it again...keep those lines of communication open between you and your kids. They'll appreciate if not now, then someday.


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... Actualllllllly after a few months on HRT... they are not exactly marbles anymore... more like squishy grapes...and there are a lot of trans that do not take the orchi... because you lose some elasticity in the tissue... you will need for your reconstruction... your fanny gets bigger, skin gets softer, hair is so much better.... there is some breast tissue, but nothing more than perky, but then you've always been flat so you are quite pleased... the best thing about hormones is, is give your brain a moment to rest...and it does seem to arrest the OCD in some cases, even if only slightly... when the brain percieves you are addressing the problem, it finally tries to rest... at this time, the bi gendered person s mind has a moment to think... so I love what they have done for me personally...I'm sure you can attest to the relentlessness of this disorder... it is ongoing for decades... so unless one has it, I am hard pressed to explain it to someone that has not experienced it...during these moments of pause, the trans actually may have a moment to consider what is truly best for him or her...so you will enjoy that part immensely... try not to obsess on how you look... accept that you will already look a little strange... with my own children... who all know about my gift or my detriment, which ever you see... would sometimes let me know that they knew something was up and I looked different, but it was in a playful way not hurtful, then I could honestly answer in a playful way and let them know that they were right... it allowed themm to poke a little fun but also allowed me to let them in on a part of me that was changing... not a heavy oh I'm changing and I've always felt this way... don't do that please... the child is already aware so don't patronize them... I have changed little by little of the years so they see me as this person... and it's no accident, I love my family and I'm sure you love yours, and I'm only sharing because it's worked for me... live within yourself... somewhere along the way we all deposited this side of ourselves into another bank, I think if you move all the money from your first bank (the man you built) into the second bank( the woman you are) to quickly, because you are the main source of all his value, you could close the first bank completely... which is what most trans do in your challenge...I believe if one were have the ability to not bankrupt either then you have two banks with equal amount of capital in each... then if both of those sides of your personality start to grow... then you enrich all those who come in contact with you... you grow both sides to just the same place you had grown the one... and you have four times the monies than when you started... bi-gender is that way I believe... Sara... you must no by now that I am an outlaw... I do not believe conventional wisdom or the dogma that medicine has sold to transsexuals... I believe with all my heart that the medical community is clueless to how and what I feel...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Dear izetti, I am pleased to hear that you stay in touch with your dad, and hope with time your wounds heal, because no matter how he/she chooses to handle his affairs, or what body he chooses to live in, weather right or wrong in your eyes, he is still your dad and you,his daughter, and that in itself is a beautiful thing. I do know that some parents believe, adult or parent issues are not the business of their children, this is a fine line to walk. Maybe this is part of your dads reason for secrecy. It is hard sometimes to explain why people do the things they do and that is why I have confided in you and others recently, so that I will reduce the amount of mistakes I make, while on this journey. When I read your Hub and all the responses, I then realized how sensative this subject was, and felt that you and the others, as children of transgender parents, could help me understand how to make this transition better for my children and myself, and I thank you for that. I would still like to understand, the awkwardness in public, so I can address this issue when I get to that point in time. I do realize that the "shock factor" usually results in disappointment and lack of open communication is also destructive, that is why I am openly discussing myself with my family. Jeanine, I also appreciate your thoughts and do give them much consideration, support like this is priceless. When it comes to the medical community, this is all so new, Three decades ago this was nearly unheard of, so you are right, they dont know exactly what trasgender need, clueless, but they are learning too. Everyone takes baby steps before they walk, they are getting better with more experience.


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, you are doing it again... that man thing I mean... remember don't try and take charge... and give that fatherly advice... it's how you got here really... you said you just don't want to do those manly things any more they don't interest you... I can believe that but I have yet the meet a trans that didn't want to keep that manly respect after they transition... it doesn't work that way dear... if you choose to give up your badge... they do take everything ... they do give you a hankie for your tears but that's it...most of my trans friends are appalled that world doesn't just afford them the respect they have had all their lives as men... most of the anger I see in the trans community can be traced to this one fact... as a man, you get a pass on some of it, as a woman, you are viewed as a second class citizen and you will have to earn their respect and you better damn well be pretty while you are doing it... your numbers are a little off, trans through medical SRS has been around for the past seventy years... our tribe of "two spirited individuals" have been here for tens of thousands of years... get a good Endo... and get the right meds.. it's the OCD that is driving the change not your gender... most men make the change then realize oh... I'm really the same person... isn't that what we all say, I'm really the same person, just in a different body style...lol... I can give some enlightenment on the awkwardness in public... how long have you practiced being a man.... even if you don't think you are one... when you have practiced that long being a woman... you will be at unity... or zero so to speak...it's the main reason older trans usually are surprised and have some difficulty... again it's the unaware male, thinking "well hell I'll just git er done"...lol...younger trans have a much better chance because they have not spent their entire lives being a man... it's one of the reasons to stay in the body you have... your history with this body will be thrown away... what most trans don't realize is part of the history your kids have built with you is often thrown away also... not by the child but by the parent trying in a very manly or male type of thinking... "if I just try harder to be a woman, I will be"... there is not a woman on the entire planet that has those thoughts in her head... unless she is trans also... maybe this will help... "stop being male this very moment...right now, I mean it"... did you do it, were you successful... no... so transition is really a game in a way to me... it's hide and seek for adults... fun to fantasize about, but I often wonder why they didn't come find me... I was sure they knew I was in the closet... remember the clothes you wear will not help you be the woman you see...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I suppose I was just thinking like a man, I felt compelled to try and give a parents viewpoint to the children. izettl is opening herself to me and I wanted to give back, maybe giving her something new to consider from the opposite side of this equation, while my brain still thinks that way. It was just a gesture of good faith, because I feel compassion for her and the other children, my own children, that is why I am looking for the answers. You are right about the numbers, I was giving an approximate estimate as to it being openly practiced and or somewhat medically accepted. There is still the learning curve. " well hell I'll just git er done", I do understand what you are saying,and realize that it would have been easier when I was younger and with alot less baggage, but I am where I am and have to make the best of things, I know it wont be easy. Women are treated like second class citizens but this does not intimidate me, this is something I have come to expect. Thank you for being so candid!


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara...lol... you are funny... git r done... and yes we all love izetti because we all wished our children would be more like her and understand... plus I can hear the compassion in your voice dad and I am only poking fun in some of my comments... I say hey might as well laugh as cry... and yes it's wonderful just to hear a man admit being a man... most sitting in this section don't know who they are completely, but we are a good bunch and I love that we are brave... " Dumb and Dumber" sometimes but brave...I know it's in good faith and I appreciate you sending out some love to her and all the children, so don't let me bug you to much... the reason I want some of you to stay in the body is, soon some of our tribe will begin that journey as well... to me as long as they can get you to change into a woman or a man... they don't have to deal with the greatness of who we were and can be once again... your uniqueness does not lie in your body but in your spirit... you have an understanding of both men and women, if you study, I hate what the medical community has done... you are so unique, so I will say this once so listen carefully... I believe it is not about us... but about the children... if we can be moved to focus on ourselves then it does leave the children wide ope to hurt, pain and even attacks by the negative powers that surround... as a father you have already established that trust, with your child... when we as trans choose ourselves instead of them, we are ushering in pain and hurt into our childrens lives... I'm not trying to be candid... or hurtful... I'm trying to let you see you are the most unique like you are... I do hear in your words that you have already made your decision, but I wished you would take the hormones for a year and then take another look... when you guys start to stay in the body, our tribe will attain greatness again... there are no humans like us... we are separate as a tribe... keepers of the secrets of God... ask the boy... he is to young to lie... he will tell the truth...ask him if he wants you or you as another mommy... sorry I know that hurts... and I am not trying to hurt... what I am more and more aware of is that... our tribe is being killed off in the name of science and medicine... what if you are suppose to live this life as an example... we were the teachers... how did we arrive at the place where we began to think of ourselves instead of helping others... which is why you have the gift of two spirits... Sara... I so appreciate you listening at least... love to and your family... think about it and share with your family... they are all that matter in the end... I am not woman.. I am not man... I am both and it is an amazing gift... as compassionate as a mother... a woman as passionate as a man... we are two spirited people... do not stay blind to your destiny...


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara... don't let me scare you off... I'll let Izettl talk to you... I know I am intense, acting like a guy again I guess...lol...you are certainly entitled to your own opinion and decisions I am just wanting more for us as a tribe... I do believe in each trans... just trying the jar the memory of what we were and could be again, if we could control the OCD... I appreciate you wanting to do the right thing for your children... hope to speak with you again sometime...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi, Jeanine... You have not scared me off,lol. I have been busy and doing alot of reflecting lately, I take one step forward and two steps back. I do need a therapist and a support group, like you have suggested. Other than the internet with kind people like yourself, it would be nice to have someone to spend time with who has the same issues and ideas, someone who understands and can be there for support. The therapist, I suppose I will have to use, the one that I am not to fond of. I did pamper myself today by getting my hair straightened and styled, It looks cute and I went to a few stores afterwards and received some positive responses, which boosted my confidence a little. I think this is part of painting this picture slowly, so I don't lose my "picture". I get my son all weekend starting tomorrow night,I'm sure he will comment, which is welcome, I do love him so much. The big hurdle will be my parents, I have lived my life fairly open minded, but my parents are very opinionated and set in their ways, this wont stop me from telling them, just make me scared as hell when I do and hope they take it well. I will keep their feelings in mind when we talk, Family is so important.

I will take the good with the bad.


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izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ Thank you for your perspective and I hope I added a new one for you too. I think my dad would have benefitted from a support group or therapist. He did not see one, but only once or twice from what he said then he got his surgeries all at once overseas. My dad also had a tough time with his dad, which I finally convinced him to go see him a couple of years ago- his mom has already passed many years ago. His dad passed this last year so it was good he got to see him. Although his dad was too old to understand much. One of my dad's sisters knew about my dad but said nothing about it to me- very secretive family. In fact, I assumed the other sister knew and I mentioned something about it when she said she didn't know...and now it's been a year since she has talked to me. The other sister avoids me too. The whole family lives in denial- so I can't totally blame my dad for being secretive about it.

I went to a wonderful counselor- she was gay and in a way her persepctive helped because she had to go through some of this with her family "coming out". She taught me to focus on the relationship with my dad and not so much the change- no matter who my dad is, there will always be some sort of relationship and that's what needs to be addressed if I have issues. I guess since my dad "came out" in a way...it gave me permission to come out with all the things that bugged me about him. It was the wrong timing but thats the way it's been. It's like finally my dad showed me who he is and now I've shown him who I am..and it's not a little girl who isn't very smart as he has treated me in the past. I talk back sometimes, I disagree, and all this has happened since his change so I think he thinks it's related to it, but really it's finally being me. Interesting how that's worked out, but at least we're a little more honest about each other.

It sounds like you're taking a slower route than my dad did and that may work better for the family aspect. I often wondered if I was a bad reminder for my dad of when she was a man. I don't know...but I still wonder.

Also when you said wome nare treated like second class citizens - I actually agree a bit because I saw how my dad lost his influence in society- he had a pwerful position he retired from and when he changed, so did society and the people around him so that he is not this powerful person anymore. I wondered how that effected him and I know it must.


Tess_wegner profile image

Tess_wegner 4 years ago

Always enjoy reading your posts Jeanine and Izetti.

Have a good Xmas and take care.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Tess... Jump on in here and help us... we have missed you... Merry Christmas to you sweet... hope you are well... we could use her first hand knowledge here... you know me... I'm always trying to get as many of us to stay in the body where we can attain greatness again...always dreaming...

Hi Sara... if our dads only understood how scary they were when we were your boys age... most late transitions, come late because of an angry dad or grandfather...trying to make us a man like them, never realizing the more they tried the more we were repulsed by their efforts... glad you had a good day and a trip to the shop to get your hair did..lol... is always a good one... the line you have to walk with the therapist is a strange one... you must convince her or him that you need the mones but then after they give them to you... I'm asking you to go slowly... because in some cases... not all but some the hormones are enough to help you make sound decisions... Sra this is a friend of Izettls and mine... Tess... take it way...


jeanine 4 years ago

I've been lucky to have good therapist.... they all helped in their own ways... the greatest being that one found me a great ENDO and walked me into the door to relief...(hormones are Heavenly) and very much needed for our tribe... one tuned me on to the best Electrologist in the country... one turned me on to going to group, where I have learn more about this gift or disorder... all depends on which of us that you talk to...and one who was able to convince me that it was alright to love me for being me... that I didn't have to fit in the binary system like so many of my sisters have chosen to do... it is very lonely being the trans that didn't transition like the rest... at first you say oh they left me behind, but then I realized that I am not like the rest, then the sweetest thing happened... most trans and most straits all let me be me...and I love them... what if there are more like me... if so I would like to know... I truly don't fit in either but often or at times fit in both... two spirited... my tribe...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hello tonight izettl, its hard to tell why your dad has chosen to stay mysterious and secretive, everyone has their own reason for doing things a perticular way, weather they are man,woman or in between. As for you being a bad reminder, I would not ponder on that one for too long, he and you do still have a relationship, so there must be something there. If he is as uncomfortable as you say, I would tend to believe that for him, it is easier to avoid as much as possible. When your dad told his sister he may have ask her to keep it to herself till he was ready to tell others himself, or she chose to not be involved at all. Just because someone knows something does not make it necessary to broadcast it to everyone else, its part of respect and loyalty. I have told my brother and my step daughter and ask them to keep it to theirselves so I can let others know in my own time, im not trying to keep a secret per say, I just want the time to be as right as possible for each one that I let know, afterwards I would still expect that they need not run around and run their mouth to everyone and everything, because its just not necessary, and just perpetuates gossip. It makes me feel good that you have taken time from your busy schedule and replied to my comments with compassion verses reservation, seeing as you have been on the other side of a not so ideal situation. Good for you,being straight forward with your dad, keep it honest, and you will always know where each other stands. Though some women do hold powerful positions, most dont and why would any man,before or after transition expect to be that powerfully masculine person anyway. Besides, weather I am in a dress and heels,or even a nice fitting pair of jeans and a cute blouse, I lose that powerful masculine feeling, it turns to, soft and non aggressive, but I guess that is just me and each person is different, some will never be content and never find theirself even after the transition. Back to the grass isn't always greener, unfortunately sometimes we dont see that till we are on the other side, then its too late. Hi Tess, I look forward to hearing your opinion also. I have been in search of others point of view,and the childrens point of view, so I can try to navigate through this world that my mind has created without damaging my son. Jeanine, my father was scary and he is a good man and dad, but honey I wont lie, I am scared as hell, there isn't a day that goes bye that I still question weather all that I want is worth the price that needs to be paid. I just wish I could see that price tag before I have to buy. But Im not unrealistic, It just doesnt work that way. By the way,my son just giggled about my hair and has snuck up several times to touch it, I just laugh.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sra... the price is what we have been discussing... I believe with hormones and blockers the price is not as devastating for late transitions...and if it's just the equipment down stairs... you can do that without changing the rest of the body... and then the body slowly changes on it's own... so you do get to the same ending but not so drastic for your children, Friends and family... my transition has been slower and almost no one has said anything...they have all gotten used to it as I have slowly changed... now have I given up some of the pop and class of trying to be all woman... probably,, but the reality is, I am more me than I was before starting HRT and my family has not suffered...late transition is the least womanly thing I think any of us can do... it addresses the body then the mind and the emotions... I believe you will be the same person and God knows who of us had not rather be a woman... still it id the one most hurtful thing you can do to your family... the statement of "I love my family more than anything" rings hollow... that should read "I love my family more than anything except my own transition" and hey no one understands the need and desire to go down that path... more than all of us who have this gift... just giving the other side... I know you can't stop it, but at least make a stab at it for your boys sake... he'll later so you must be true to him also...Children are so wonderful and I know he probably likes you better as yourself... I'm just saying take a good look at yourself and make sure that you present the real you and not some person the system has convinced you that you must be if you feel this way... understand... I still think you are perfectly made... without your reproductive equipment he would have never been born... so your next love may need a child also... I'm a romantic... can you tell...lol... and am so enamored with that part of the male body that I could not destroy it... are you attracted to men or women...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I have always been attracted to women and have never been with a man, but am open minded enough and hear that some of the people who transition will change their preference when it comes to the gender that they prefer to be sexual with(I believe it has something to do with chemical changes in the brain when the hormones kick in). I occasionally wonder what it would be like to have a handsome man holding me,like I have held a woman,and would not be against being with another transgender person, even if he had not fully transitioned, someone from your tribe. I mean that with nothing but love for you... Even if you have changed your appearance over time from man to woman, I would think, if you live your life full time as a female in appearance , what would be the difference in finishing the transition,no one sees that except you, and your family only knows the woman, the only exception would be someone who has transitioned and still has their wife or husband. Then the spouse my be the influencing factor in keeping your genitalia intact for their sake. I have no significant other that would want me to keep my penis and in time when my appearance changes to female, why would it matter to any of my family if the tool was removed, for I would look as a woman anyways. I am 43 now and feel that it wouldnt be fair to a child, having that child this late in life, so I have no intention in having more children, besides its bad enough having to deal with the feelings of the ones I have now over my issues without compounding the situation having another. Some of the price that I was refering to was the possible loss of family and friends, my children and parents, not so much monetary ,its all so uncertain... "I love my family more than anything" does ring hollow, now that I see it written out, what is one to do, besides staying the same and not changing anything. The problem with that is, if you would have cancer, you would not let it continue to grow till it consumed you, and this is consuming me. I suppose it is more important than family but that does not shadow the fact that my family is extremely important and I will do what I can to take care of them while I take care of myself. Its a delicate juggling act. Jeanine, you do make me laugh also, you sound extremely happy having the best of both worlds, Do you live fully in appearance as a female or do you switch back and fourth for your children, I cant remember reading about your identity. With love, Sara


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Hi there Tess- thanks for stopping by. Thanks for reading the posts too and you are always welcome to add to the conversation.


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ it is a wonderful thing when the parent and child both just want to see the other happy. I think you may have that in your situation. I don't feel like my dad considered me in his process. Not that I wanted him to not change, of course I want him happy, but the way you are trying to find out what is best for your son, etc. I am confident enough to state that my dad did nothing of that sort. I don't think he asked anybody or asked a therapist how to deal with the children (or adult child in my case) about how to talk about it or break down the process to them. When my dad told me it was through email and everything about him was hostile as if he already thought I was against him in general- not the case. It went a little like "I have gone to Bangkok, Thailand and had complete sex reassignment surgery including implants. I am not looking for your approval, just wanted to let you know." The first time I went to visit him, he wanted me to see his breast implants and I said no thanks so maybe that shut down the communication right there, but let me tell you it's best to break down the process in baby steps with the family. Don't shove it in their face like my dad did, practically overnight. It definitely doesn't sound like you are doing that anyway so that's good.

My dad at first was feminine and liked dressing up but over the years has become more gender neutral in appearance. Next I have to figure out what to tell my kids someday...

You can't burden yourself with the thoughts of how all your family will take it. I kept it secret for 10+ years with most of my family. That was difficult because I regularly see my family and everyone asked where my dad was- he disappeared for all they knew. Of course they wanted to know why he disappeared for 10 years. They begin thinking it's something they did- he doesn't like them anymore, etc. So don't go keeping decade long secrets...lol.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

izettl, just tell your kids the truth, do it while they are young or they may feel that you have been lying to them. Kids are smart and have less social constraints, they will be curious but with more of an open mind. I dont know how much your kids know about your dad/grandpa/grandma, You sound like a very smart woman, so I may be telling you something that you already know, but when you tell them, try not to add any of your personal prejudice, so they will be able to make up their own mind about the situation. example, my mom tells everything she knows to everyone and when she does she does it with her own personal feelings, persuading the ones she tells towards her side of thinking. Tell them you would like to talk and set them down, tell them that your dad/grandpa use to be a boy and wanted to be a girl, so he went to the doctors and the doctor helped him become a girl. Then answer their questions and concerns, they will be inquisitive like kids are. Last night I sat my son down and ask him what he thought about daddy becoming a girl and dressing like a girl all the time and he said with unconcerned eyes that I would still be his dad and he didnt care what I wore. Then I told him no matter what I look like or wear that I would still love him and I just left it at that and will give him some time to think about what I said, I will ask him again some other time in the future or answer his questions if they arise before hand. Thank you for the pointer about telling the rest of my family, this has been another concern.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, I am very happy and would have never written here except izetti is such a good writer, she captured me for this last year that we have been writing about this subject... I don't have a lot of time right now but will begin the process for you to see how and why I believe we are to stay in this body and help the world... I do believe with all my heart that there is not a GG on earth that would let any man hurt their children... in fact I think most would kill to protect them... there in lies the challenge for me... if we are truly women, why do we choose to hurt our children... usually it's the other way around, the children hurt us not really knowing how and why they do things... most times it's their immaturity..it was this quest to find a solution that has led me to believe we are of one tribe...lol I thought your comments about, not minding being with someone of my tribe was sweet and so very cute... you are a sweet one and I agree with Izetti that you are on the right path in that you are searching to try and keep your relationship with your son at the forefront...I started out like most every trans, I was sure I was a woman trapped in this body, but after some therapy and meeting other trans... I realized I didn't hate the body I was in and I had used it to my advantage all of my life. I had always looked at him as someone I had invented to help me cope in the world that felt so strange to me.... he has protected me with his smooth and manly ways most of my life and I appreciated that so much... unlike other trans, I knew very early that I had created him so I have never thought of doing a way with him or hurting him... he has always been my best friend... when we were teens he did some embarrassing things but he stopped after he realized how much he hurt me...and after I finally got him to bath, whew that boy smells when he sweats... I am not so repulsed...lol... I'm always making him wear something that smells better... damn...I do still wear mens clothes if I want to have a butch edge, with my partner...which is how I am most of the time... I like mens suits if they are tailored.. to a womans cut... I present as me, which is someone who hasn't worn mens clothes except what I mentioned above, in a very long time... I am in music so this life has afforded me the freedom that I needed in dressing...in looking for ways to not hurt my family I stumbled upon "two spirited people" and realized that it really is the umbrella for all gender variant behaviors... thousands of years here on earth...I do believe there are a certain amount of us that have to go through transition before the next wave of who we are comes to prominence... so if you are one of us in that respect... more power to you... I realize I am an outlaw and my kind may not be here for many years to come... my kind will be here though and our tribe will be great once again...I have no concern whether you cut or not... we are what we are... to me the medical community has to grow up and see that they are just spitting in the wind before most of us begin to see they are clueless... I look at it they way people look at health...most used to go to the doctor for the meds... now we all eat healthier... it will be the same for our tribe... many will transition, then some will come and say... do I have to change my body to be who I really am... and that's where I am today... I have not suppressed like the rest of you... my folks were from the country so they convinced me I have a gift and not something wrong with me... I am blessed... I also fell in love with someone who it didn't matter... or I guess it would matter if I wanted to operate but, like you said each of us can tailor or own situation... and I have been lucky in that we married... she threw all my male underwear away and the first eight years of my marriage I never wore any male clothes... now because it was the 70's 80's the stage was a crazy place so everyone grew to know me as this... not an impersonator but as me... so I do have the best of both worlds in some ways... I still have the angst that each of us have and wished I was totally a woman sometimes but then I'm totally glad to be the man I am also... I like the pay a man gets... and the respect... I love the feel of being intimately feminine but also like the sporting side of being a man... I am both... I am "two spirited"... I have loved man and woman... and can fall equally in love with either... I have only had one I am in love with though... and that's for forty two years now... I am so glad you are at least exploring... you are still quite young... so I'm just here to say, be sure not to give up what God has given you... you do seem like a very sweet girl... pray for me as pray for you... for our tribe has a relationship with the Christians God that is much older than their own...


jeanine 4 years ago

One thing I left out, I was years into my marriage before I realized that everyone didn't have a glitch like this... I don't know if I would have noticed if I had not hurt my partner...accidentally... so protected was I by my parents love that I didn't know it was considered a problem, by the world and the church...I have the greatest parents in the world... really... extraordinary... and my sister was the best also... they all new I was different but never ever let on... that it wasn't the most normal thing they had ever seen... sweet huh... most fortunate for me...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ very smart way to talk to your son. It's nice to know you know him well. I'm not sure why my dad did not let me in more, but part of me thinks he thought I would be judgemental and I am not. of course I have perception that it's damn hard being a woman sometimes and that's part of being a woman. There is a lot to it beyond parts and panties. I care more about my dad being happy and I know he has inner peace, but just deals with the constraints of society having their own perception. Kids are often more accepting.

My daughter helped me a ton when it came to my dad. I view him/her now as a person and personality and not just a woman versus a man. My daughter is 4 and she has never cared to know whether my dad is a woman or man, she just plays and talks to her as is. That helped me to do the same- not concentrate on the gender stuff, referring to him as her or her as him or how he/she dresses sometimes, etc.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I took my son back to my ex-wifes house yesterday and went inside to find out what my sons schedule was for christmas break , when I went to leave my son jumped up on me and gave me a hug,then he ask why I wore ear rings all the time, I smiled and told him that I was a girl, he giggled and said no you are a boy, as I let him down. Then my ex chimed in under her breath ,saying be careful what you tell him even if your joking, it may confuse him, especially in school.I then said, who says im joking, for which she replied, if that is what you want go for it, you have thought about it for a long time. With my son playing in his room, she and I talked about how best to handle this with our son. She was not surprised about my decision but wanted to keep this a secret from our boy till he was grown up and I told her that I want to be open and truthful with him. Her primary concern was the issue of other kids teasing and making fun of him because his dad is dressed like a girl. This is something else that I will have to address for my sons sake. The conversation with my ex left me pondering the issues of why people choose to handle things in such a different way, she would want to be secretive till he was an adult, why do people feel it is best to censor everything from everyone, what good ever comes from this in the long run. So many people feel that they are protecting others by not letting them in on an issue that will dramatically effect them somewhere in the future. I understand the need not to spread second hand information but this is first hand and effects our son. Where is the logic?


Jeanine 4 years ago

The logic is she is embarrassed... and it makes her un comfortable... she has to deal with the man she was so sure of, is not dependable as a man anymore... she does not know the woman and the woman has not shown her self fully so it can be scary for her... try and see her side, it will be easier for you... she is more delicate than you right now, yet as you come forward you may be more delicate than she is or has been...remember she has always leaned on you and now she's not so sure she'll be able to anymore...anyway that's her logic I'm sure...if she accepts your femininity she must also accept that she fell in love with a girl... and when you said some keep their parts in tac for the partner... it's true... even if you never lie down with her again... there is something for her to hold on to... no pun intended...lol...it will hard for her to see you as a woman...be patient take small steps... with her... large steps anywhere else... small with those who love us or loved us or have loved us... love doesn't go away, even if you think it has... it's still deep in her heart, so it is agonizing for her... you know this... look in your heart... and you'll see the right way to handle her... it's what we have done for centuries... look closely ... you did love her enough for the love to produce a beautiful child, so be careful with both of them, even if you are no longer with her... love is forever... really is true...you will need her love again before this is over... do not throw her love for the both of you away...


Jeanine 4 years ago

"Too Preachy"??????...lol...lol...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ what an interesting story and even though there's an age difference between your son and I when I found out, I can relate about kids teasing him at school. UNfortunately kids will tease about anything. But as an adult I had to ponder how to tell a man I was serious about- if he was to be my husband he should know who his father in law is. Even my friends...sad to say I just told my best friend of 11 years- I told her about a year ago. Can you believe that? I guess sometimes you just don't want to be bugged by all the questions people have and mostly questions I can't answer anyway. I told my husband soon after we were dating since he was the type that laid everything out there...good and bad about himself. I respect and love that about him. He's a very masculine sort of guy but he didn't blink an eye about telling him about my dad. However, they've never met in 8 years we've been together- but that's my dad's choice. He won't meet him and that is something my husband does find offensive about him.

Yes, I completely agree about wishing people would be more open and not hide so much. The other day I found out a good friend was getting divorced and I didn't even know they were having problems. I think it's odd people cover up so much and hide truths.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

izettl~what a shame, your dad is missing out on so much by dis associating from his family like he has. I can understand why your husband is offended, your dad is a part of you and im sure your husband would want to know him,no matter the circumstances. Thank you for allowing me, the use of your hub to try and answer so many of the questions and concerns that I have on this sensitive subject. I am going to take this slowly so it isnt such a shock to my son and parents. I have had another talk with my ex and she cried for our son, herself and I. Im finding the hardest part, is letting everyone know and dealing with each persons feelings. This also reminds me of my divorce, for years I postponed the inevitable because even though, towards the end, it was a terrible marriage, even with all the bad, I at least knew what I had, and the future was terrifyingly uncertain. With the transition, most everything is uncertain, and is compounded by all the outside influences(family issues,family, friends, etc. Im sure, like my divorce, once I have taken that one full step, it will take the weight off my shoulders, not that it wont be difficult, but it will be a relief. I would also like to thank Jeanine for her support, you have been terrific, you and izettl have both helped me immensely over the last couple of weeks. izettl, I will continue to watch your hubs and comment if you dont care, you are a wonderful writer and a wonderful woman. I have only started my journey and am sure that I will have many more things to ask and say, as they surface. Does any one have any suggestions on how to handle the teasing of my son? What is the best way for my son to deal with it and how do I handle it with my son and the ones teasing? Always with love, Sara


Jeanine 4 years ago

Oh Sara, you are a jewel and you will make it through, as far as the teasing, you can help him by dressing the part when you pick him up or when you must see the people he sees... jeans and sneakers and a large shirt to disguise the breast will work... and after the initial yeah I'm a woman and I can dress the way I want to wears off, you go to a real look any way when you are relaxing and by being a little less fem in certain settings, will actually let those around you, especially your wife see that you really are the same person... just happier... there are just as many women who don't like to put on make up as there are trans that do...lol...

Listen dear you mustn't fall back into your manly ways... "git er done"... you have been about two weeks and it sounds like from your message above, "well little darlin I got to move on"...lol... women talk and discuss and then talk some more, so enjoy it... I love reading your comments because you are like a virgin...lol... yes a virgin in some ways... so don't run off... "he done runned oft" I think was the line in "Oh Brother where art thou"...lol... hey remember the body is superficial... get a good Endo and "the damn hormones will make you feel just like a woman"... spoken to you in my most mostly manly voice...lol...life's worth the living... try not to do things that stop you from living it to the fullest.... the transition does not have to be uncertain... plan... plan... and plan... if you begin with your HRT plan and clear your face first before you go walking down the street as the new favor... half n half... you will be surprised at how many people you don't have to tell...except for your family... almost no one cares that you are a woman... most say more power to you... so stop looking for them to be looking at you... most are not... if you get made, then smile and be friendly... the truth is always stranger than fiction...lol... help them not be afraid for you really are from royal tribe... I am proof... if we all parents that didn't care how we were dressed then there would be less angst and really I think less full transitions into the binary system... please... for yourself... live the full two years before the cut... making sure you are on blockers and your hormones... so many trans still have to do it like the men we have been trained to be... "getting all of it done at once" in this case is not the solution... your mind and body have to heal, you have been traumatized most of your life whether you know it or not, most who make it this far, know something happened along the way to help create more angst. If you can take a deep breath and look at Sara from your wife's view point you will be amazed at how good and faithful a friend she turns out to be... remember love does not go away, we can hide the hurt, but deep in the night, the love we make is the love we take with us each day.... make big love happen with your family... your boy carries your name... help your mom help your dad to see he is not losing his son, but gaining the full person that his son became... and to become a woman, is and will be the most amazing and wonderful journey of your entire life, not because you are becoming one... but because you are becoming... understand... journeys are always more important than the destinations... decide whether your destination is to be happy and help those around you to be happy, or to be a woman... I for one believe they are married... and one does not get to be one without the other... this is not like your divorce or like anything else that you have ever experienced... the weight will shift but will not come off of your shoulders until you complete what we spoke of earlier... "the lioness within" will not let any man or woman harm her child... that includes ourselves at the one who may bring harm... be very careful... God has thought you through.... you have been a delight so don't runn oft...lol... Merry Christmas Sara... and izettl take care of the pregnant lady... love to the Family...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ It does kind of sound like im going away but you dont have to worry, I am not going anywhere, I was just wanting to thank izettl and yourself for all the support. This kind of support is priceless and lets me know that im not alone. Do we have a beautiful baby on the way, Congratulations, they are so wonderful. Have a Merry Christmas


Jeanine 4 years ago

Yes Izettl is having a boy some...the one thing that will always elude you and I... the real rite of passage... into womanhood...I'm so glad you are going to stick around... the cool thing about our conversations is we don't really care if you transition or not... I just wished there was a more level playing field... I really do believe the problemm or challenge lies in education... parents are not really educated in the options to help their children... I will always believe there is more to life than the binary system... why are there no words to describe what we are... bi emotional... or bi gendered... why is there only bi-sexual...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Jeanine~ I'll tell you all about my "rite of passage" after I go through labor- lol.

Sara and Jeanine~ If I could get out one message on this topic it is something that I think Jeanine and I can agree on and that's an in-between- a life of comfort in both the male and female world. So many trans get caught up in changing completely and sometimes that doesn't make them happy. THere is too much concentration on the outside appearance- I've posted other things on this that sometimes I would almost get offended that trans think being a woman amounts to having boobs and the female genitalia. Some truly feel like a woman on the inside and want to match the outside, but there are marked differences to really be able to be one or the other. That's why I think some would do OK in between. No shame involved. It's society that wants people to be and live as one or the other. If that makes sense...

Anyway...Merry Christmas!

Yes, Sara I am 8 months pregnant with a boy. I have a 4 yr old daughter now. To me girls are so easy because there is no stigma if they want to dress as a princess or spiderman- makes no difference. I am nervous a little about a boy because I want him to grow into a man but not push all the male stereotype things- I want him to be sensitive but not get accused of being girls. I want him to be comfortable in his own skin. I know my dad was raised to be a man's man- guns, war, hunting, and that was not his personality so I sometimes think it is harder to raise a boy. We'll see- I cna't wait for him to be born and love him to pieces all the same.


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ don't do too much too soon. I can understand there would be a lot of pressure telling everyone you want to tell and dealing with those individual relationships. Take care of yourself too- don't take on the feelings of the ones close to you. Your son is most important and I know you love him so much, I can tell. Kids want their parents to be happy.


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Merry Christmas. izettl~Congratulations, I wish for you an easy,safe birth of a healthy and happy baby boy,he will be a bundle of joy... My father was always hard working to provide for our family and never really pushed my two brothers and I to be manly men but we pushed ourselves to do all the things, hunting, fishing, hot cars, motorcycles, etc.. All along I had this sense of wanting to be like my mom, she was smart,strong but delicate, beautiful, caring, worked a full time job in heels and hose and still came home and cooked a real meal and cleaned house, she took care of everything. When my father on occasion wanted to go fishing, I would stay home with mom to help bake or cook while my two brothers went with dad, I cant say just why. I see what your saying about there being no stigma for girls when there is a fine line for boys, I would not worry about that though, my brothers and I were raised the same, we are all sensative but as for the male stereotype things, I think it comes natural with testosterone. For myself, I have always been sensative, but manly and loved to take care of the women that I was with, like a knight/prince but still wanted to be that damsel. Physical influences in life are only part of who I am / who we are, the rest comes from inside of us. I was not raised to be who I am, my mom and dad are not open minded and are completely for a man and woman relationship,guys being guys and girls being girls, they will not understand who I am because they only see one way. As for your son, he will be his own entity, his own person, just raise him the best that you can and be there for him when he needs you, with an open mind for his needs, and he will turn out fine in his own way. With boys and girls, its six of one and a half a dozen of the other, boys cant get pregnant at twelve years old , but because of testosterone are more prone to criminal activity, boys being boys, hot rods and sowing oats. As for the girls, I can attest to the crazyness of running off twenty five year old men showing up to pick up my fourteen year old step daughter, and my wife and I having to go track her down because she wasn't where she was suppose to be, finding her in a car full of older boys by herself. Thats not how we raised her but is who she was, enough said. Myself, I am not fixed on SRS at this point,it is something that I have set for the future, if at that point I need to have done, but is not my initial need, I do however think it will be easier for myself, mentally and physically to at least look like a woman in appearance, even if there is a little extra something down below, for now. I already have long hair, earrings,and fairly long fingernails, if I can stop breaking them, lol. I have been working on retraining my voice and getting facial hair removed, and need a large arm tattoo removed, trying to get a theropist,endo and HRT, I think this is a good start, by the time the HRT takes effect it should allow everyone I know, time to adjust slowly. When this is all done, I will reevaluate my needs again and go from there. From what I read and hear on HRT, the mind change, makes you reevaluate your priorties anyways. Have a great holiday.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Izettl is right about taking your time... and you are right that HRt does change everything including the brain... the center of gravity just from the redistribution of fat... you ass, your chest, your waist and your brain... lol... the brain is the most dramatic... you are longer as aggressive so finding work has a built in downsize... the problem between the loins goes the way of the dinosaur... your head... the one on your shoulders, begins the win the war... you know longer are so impulsive... much more pensive in mood... yes I would say the brain is the biggest change... my electrologist says you can always tell the girls from the boys during their first treatment or whenever she discusses the absence of hair will feminize the face.. she says most T girls says ooo I can't wait... where the guys are not so certain... where and what kind of clearing on your face... I say all of this to say... you can bet your pretty bottom... that if you take the time, you will be able to grow into the person you are supposed to be... and as you take hormones it will become more important each day as you begin to look at your little man as he grows up to be the man you want him to be... knowing how to treat the girls, knowing how to provide and learning loyalty to the woman he finally falls in love with.... be doing them for a year, my entire mindset changed to one of so much empathy for my family that I would never do anything to harm their view of me... now that my face is cleared and body has been changing slowly... my children can see that I'm different but still the same to them also... I can see by your comments you are a very good dad, and that's all the matters really... some dads wear slacks... some wear pants... you only need to educate your friends and family to which you are... pretty pants are a choice for me... but I can still hang with the boys and wear a nice pair of mens slacks... which I would do if I were born a woman... remember what Izettl said about not letting our social system dictate what you are to be or become... I truly am not one or the other... I am what I need of both... some times just like you, we all want to be pretty... but if you can wait long enough and get enough girl experiences under your bra.. then the day comes around when you want to experience some of the joys of being a man... like easier finding a good paying job... easier meeting your extended family... like Izettls husband is still waiting 8 years later... love is relationships... moving to quickly into transition, will minimize relationships instead of broadening them... this is not an opinion, but factual knowledge you can look up... If you can pas as a woman then it will be easier for you to be one of the binary people... the assignment now is to find out and spend as much time and finding out about "two spirited" people as you have spent on reading and educating yourself on being trans... there were great men in history who studied the earth when they were sure it was flat... their entire theories they worked on for all of their lives were, brought to nothing when we discovered the earth is round... when you discover that trans really is only a part of our tribe, then and only then can you really be happy... I know you nor any of the medical community or those who have partaken of their cool-aid... want to believe that this theory might be correct but the more I read and the more I know about myself and other... I am prone to believe we are on a helpful road but not the main road that leads us to being happy within ourselves... Merry Christmas to you and to you Izettl...


jeanine 4 years ago

transition is very adolescent in many ways... at least for my last few years... 6mg of Estradiol, 200 mg of spironolactone has changed my mind on more than a few things in life... the brain has moments that seem to affix to and embrace OCD with a vengance... ex. I have been writing for the last few years... to me as I live in and through these drugs I believe within myself it maybe some of my best work... yet looking at it from someones else eyes... it may look very similar to a young girls diary.... so smitten and self absorbed that every new experience and feeling is recorded... the female mine seems to be entertained by different things... than the typical male brain... ex more time spent listening to others instead of just giving an opinion...more pensive or thoughtful in ways...because the behavior is new , ones first action is the love oneself more because you are now more aware of your behavior changing for the better... what I have noticed be is... in my own case.... the delaying of self gratification, has taken me down another road, emotionally... and as I look at this behavior I realize it is more the thought possess of a mother in some ways.. actually being the victim to loving her family beyond herself...there is lies my exploration into "two spirited" individuals... they all were holy men and women... who kept all of their respected life in tact... kept their families, their position in life they had attained... still exploring there is something else here for us... besides transition... I see it, feel it, hear it, and know it is within me... we are not of this binary system... we are another gender... I can't prove it yet, but I believe it with all my being...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ Do all two spirited people switch from one gender to the other in appearance as they need or can they live as one gender all the time while having the opposite genitalia? Have a Happy New Year.


Jeanine 4 years ago

yes , switch but can live as one... the need to be beautiful is interlocked with the ability to be powerful as a man... the sensitivity of a woman... the practicality of a man... ex... if you need to parallel park.... lol... or if you need to go to the ball... and wear that beautiful red dress... you are one for one and one for the other... n the red dress.. if he kisses you, then you still have your practical side that says hey I'm not falling ...immediately... or when youare mad and want to be aggressive, she is there to add rational thought... see there it is... a rational woman... and tender man... am I... Happy New year dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I meant to add that I am aware the term Two spirited primarely refers to the spirit being both male and female,and does not necessarily refer to the physical appearance. Am I to understand that the GLBT has adopted the term "Two spirited" as someone who is not only male but female also? If so, how do the indigenous Native Americans feel about non Native Americans/others using this term? I am curious because I am not in a hurry to have SRS, just wanting to visually pass as a female.


Jeanine 4 years ago

no they have not adopted it... but that's what we are... it's the OCD that makes us that concerned with the body... we are spirit to spirit.... it is native to many tribes, not just American indians... think about a woman who makes war and is very level headed in battle... more like that... more like Christ... both man and woman... and you probably will get srs and you should if you want... I'm not really here to tell you to do it or not, just here to educate and say take a real look at how unique we all are... to me GLBT are a great group of people but are still just a group... plus they didn't stand up for the trans community when the law when down these last few years... you are aware Trans were the first to stand up for the gay community... right... so they don't hold me within their group... they use us when it's to their advantage... not bitter.. just aware... after you are doing these drugs things will be much clearer to you... but don't just do what the community tell you... they all drank the kool-aid...already... and hey there is nothing wrong with that... I just see and hear something else...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Typical for most all groups, they have their own agenda and if you are not part of their agenda then your on your own. I dont know much about them, I do know that they are not represented very well in Indiana, I couldn't find much information on LGBT even in Indianapolis, our state capital... I know your not telling me what to do,I have never thought that, even for a moment, and I dont feel that society is pushing me to make a decision to be one or the other. I am pushing myself to do what I do and with that said know not to be unrealistic. The cost is immense and my insurance does not cover the expenses so I know that it will take a long time, in the scheme of things, if I dont have the lower part done for awhile, no one will know except myself. The visible and verbal part is what im interested in for the moment, along with the meds for the mental part.


jeanine 4 years ago

The most important thing is to take the time... time in the case is the perfect partner...make sure you mend your relationship with your therapist... speak sincerely telling, her/him that you truly feel this inside...explain that you could go and get some hack to write you the prescription but you are truly seeking help at a reasonable cost... my Endo may know someone in your area, he is the best here in the south and was the darlin of Boston college... he's a cutie...lol...your endo will become the most important person with the therapist for the next year... you get to try and help him regulate how hormones are affecting you and how they make you feel... very interesting... try to be honest and change slowly... if the body arrives before the mind... you can suffer some unpleasant moments... remember in this mold you really will be more like your sons 13 year old sister...the pain comes when you are as smart as a grow man and still like a young girl... dangerous impulses,lying next to one another... the brain must grow emotionally...

There are some Seth Riggs CD's that will help you on the voice... he is a singers teacher... stevie wonder, James Ingram, Luther and many many more...if you get those cd's and learn it... you can put the voice anywhere you want to....if you want to go the traditional Trans route get the cd's on voice by melanie anne phillips, and there are plenty of free ones on you tube... trans voice or something like that...get the brain right first... a good way for you to practice your sensitivity to your new attitude... is make the slightest change to your appearance each time you feel your changing on the inside... the game is to make the change so slight that they notice but can't figure it out... it's not as exciting as changing all at once and seeing wjo is with ye and whose agin yee...lol... sorry I couldn't resist... hey if we stay in touch on here... I can bet you I will know when you are on HRT for a month... they really are that drastic... hope you have wonderful new years... I'll be here keeping the faith...lol... have a great night dear...


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara this statement..."if I dont have the lower part done for awhile, no one will know except myself" is something you have to take a look at... that's the whole point... you will know and you will still not be satisfied and this is the main argument for coming flat out and telling everyone....what I'm saying though is... if one spends the time with the gift or disorder... which ever way you look at... there is more to the gift than just the change or srs... there is some thing else more complete in having access to both... think about it this way... the over whelming desire to change right now in your life or when ever is based almost solely on evidence that you have been forced to live in one gender... why it is easier to think its it's the wrong gender instead of just you have been forced to live as only one... just a hypothesis but a real one... I believe the reason for so much dissatisfaction with some older trans... is this thought prevails even after transition... "why am I uncomfortable in this skin" what if this skin is inter-changable... because of "the two spirits" rite of passage so to speak...moving freely within the two genders... just think about it in the rational part of your brain... before the change you still have both... the hyper rational and the hyper emotional sides of yourself... and that is the most important person anyone could ever know dear... the whole you... both interesting sides...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I can see that with slow change, there will be some people that will still end up finding out all at once, after the change. I say this because there are people who I have not seen for years that will pop out of the woodwork from time to time. It will be interesting to see how they react when they dont know who I am when they come knocking, a look of confusion, surprise and disbelief along with a variety of other expressions. Have you or others experienced someone from the past showing up only to realize that you have changed?... Jeanine~ I will hold you too guessing when I have been on HRT for a month , lol. The Two Spirit/ two gendered or third gender person has led me from the native american indians to Revelation in the bible, the internet is wonderful. I have been researching theropist in or near Indianapolis, its over an hour away but there is at least a half dozon, that to some degree work with Tgender and a couple that specialize in Tgender and have a sliding scale, its looking up... People are starting to notice,I had my son over for new years eve and was dressed like a guy(as much as I can)and a long time friend and his wife came over, his wife has not seen me in awhile though my friend has, and they dont know yet, about half way through the night she casually commented that I looked pretty (in a nice way and her not flirting, she is a theropist, primarily for drug and alcohol addiction and has always been very observant) then she ask me if I was taking hormones because it looked like I was starting to become shapely, she was nice about it and was inquisitive the rest of the night along with my long time friend. They seem to be comfortable with the thought but I never let on. I will in time... I know your going to cringe, what is your thought on self medicating HRT, lower doses, just to start out until I can get a prescription. I see it can take more then three months with a theropist and endo to get a sign off, to start and that is if you dont end up with a theropist that wont give you the ok and have to find another one. Some health facilities are starting to bypass the Harry Benjamin standards, but they are to far away to make it practical, I have already been on B.C. for about six months, they do not do much, but after about a month I started feeling much more calm. There are gobs of sites and blogs saying what the dosages are for transgender MtF and they are all within the same range. Also would you use estrogen in a pill or patch? It is said that the patch and injection does not go through the liver before going through the blood stream. Ta ta for now


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

This didnt make it in, I am going to my family doctor this week and talk to her for help in this matter and see if she can give me some good references.


Jeanine 4 years ago

There are therapist who advertise that they are interested in you finding what you want... so be aware there are some therapist you can go to that are very helpful in giving you what you want as far as hormone... we all have self medicated but it really is not the way to go... I'm sure with my warning you will go ahead and try it but you really do need a good Endo... these drugs can be dangerous so to keep you healthy...find help... they are great drugs but powerful... I have used both... the liver is a concern so I started with a patch... what is BC... don't know my letters I guess...lol... Your family doctor can help... unfortunately with a lot of therapist they are very strict followers of the standards of care... very interesting that your friends wife would be open and notice the change, did your friend know and had you told him anything... also the wanting others to notice the change in you, is really your own baggage that you are carrying... you will not change as much as you need for the rest of the population to see you as someone else... the rush you get from being different is part of the allure... believe me we all have some of the same fantasies... please read about autogynephilia... these people are outlaws in the gender community but they talk about the one fantasy that we all have before and after srs.. the premise is some are driven to srs by the desire or fantasy of seeing oneself as a woman... you know the fantasy that we are being forced by a wife or a lover to become the woman... we all have it... I mean that one fantasy runs deep within all of us... again I just want you to be educated on whats out there...one of the big drug makers for bio identical hormones is there in Indy I think... so there is research going on near you... your friends wife may know more about gender than you are aware of... so she may be your ticket... enjoying the conversation... hope your little man is doing good and hope you are able to relax within yourself soon... remember most of the change is really inside of you...the moments of I bet my friends will be surprised and look they are looking at me differently will go away as soon as the hormones kick in... the OCD takes over around there and there can be depression... thoughts of why didn't I do this sooner will haunt you so don't fall victim to your brain... when I went I finally told my therapist that the hormones, which I was self medicating at the time, relaxed my brain enough for my mind to rest and think about something other than transitioning or being a woman... and this is the main reason, most of the standards of care say, we are to change to body to fit the brain... they have had no luck in changing the brain... but this very thought is also why I have been researching "two spirited" individuals for sometime now...there has to be a time when our tribe finally says hey... there has to be more to this than I'm in the wrong body... to me that's such a negative place for us to start... I like the advisers to kings better... a better place for me to believe actually... that this has happened for a reason... other than the medical community telling us we are broken and need fixing... understand... I am hoping with all my heart you can avoid the hurt that comes with transition... people can be nasty... so brace or change slowly... have a wonderful day Sara...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

B.C. is birth control pills. I am trying to find professional help with everything but because I have to cover all the expenses on my own and there are very few specialist where I live, I may end up taking the nonconventional approach and self medicating if,I cannot get some cooperation within a reasonable amount of time... No, my long time friend does not know yet and he has seen me enough that he does not notice the change, which is good, not that im not going to let him know but is good that I am trying to change slowly for my sons sake. His wife is not only observant but has a habit of openly speaking her mind,she is usually tactful when she is to the point and addresses most discussions like a theropy session. She has not seen me since July 4th and since then, I have changed a few things, so I should not be surprised that she noticed, I just had not thought about anyone noticing, that was the surprise. The comment I made about people popping out of the wood work, are old friends and family that I dont see very often,some maybe once a year and some once every ten years, who I dont feel need to be called and let in on my decisions, you have to draw a line somewhere... I also hope that I can avoid all the hurt, my son and parents are my hurdle, they are the only ones in my life that I dont want to have live without, only time will tell. I always look forward to hearing from you. Have a good day.


Jeanine 4 years ago

www.micheleomara.com

www.transgenderindiana.com

Hi Sara,, do you know this therapist... you can talk to her on skipe and never leave your home if you want...

I'm glad she noticed, that had to feel good just to be noticed during the change...

go slowly and they will all except you... be patient...


jeanine 4 years ago

for you Sara......"how long to find a tribe to hold this part of unique........ seems to be almost completely inept and nearly always incomplete... on my own, must there be these tears... how often must I weep.... how long and how many years".....


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I just ran across that name last night on a site that I found, www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/therapy.htm , half way down the page gives you two options, international or united states therapist, when you go U.S. , you can click on any of the states and see the choices. It is only a rough list but Michele O'mara is listed. She is in Indianapolis, I did not know that she was on skipe, I have not made it that far, thank you for letting me know. The home site is somewhat informative for the transgender, it dicusses options and tells of what to look for in a theropist/psychologist/psychiatrist. If you have time, take a look, it is information for the trans starter, I know your not a starter but it might be something that you may be able to pass on to others like myself... My friends wife noticing my change has casually opened their mind to the posibility of my change, so it wont be such a shock when they are told, im sure they will be watching for subtle changes in me from now on and im sure she will ask me again at some point in time. I love your last words, they are a poem and words of wisdom, they are beautiful, and tell of how we feel inside... izettl~ are you OK, have not heard from you and hope you and your baby are well.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, I'm taking up the slack until Izettl returns, she is nesting, getting ready for this baby, they have a new home and moved a couple of days ago so she will be back on in a few... thanks so much for the info... I thought the Skipe thing was an interesting idea...the reason we continue to say take your time is the medical communities version of the cookie cutter trans doesn't really work... it has worked for the few that are so bent on change because of the pain of living within the wrong body, but I believe there are millions of us waiting to be released, that have no interest in losing the body... Trans that are not offended by their bodies such as I am...I face the same hurt and pain as many but would not pass and will not give up my family and friends... I have been lucky in that they all know how different I am... yet my friends and family do not see me as trans... they see me as me... your friends wife noticing is a gift from God really... you can use them as a barometer to how much change is good for you and how much may be to much... if you need to triangulate... take your wifes position as the the most extreme position to the right... your friends wife the position to the left and build your on character in the middle... I think you will be please with how it might ease the tension between your wife and then she will be more trusting with her child...rememeber the reason you must take a real look there is... the courts will see you as unstable and see him as her child... so there is a reason for this madness that I am explaining about waiting...lol... I don't care if you transition completely but I am here to yell out and say, be careful... there are people that can affect your relationship with your son that don't know either one of you ... the law is not on your side...sad but true...

and yes I wrote that for you as well as our entire tribe...the pain to live in their world... can be great if one does not look at the gift we have been given...there are two road... self and the preoccupation with the body... which leads all of the rest of the world to believe you are just a selfish man... the other road being the spirit, which is preoccupied with helping others... choose wisely Indiana...lol...lol... Sara have a wonderful day...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Whoa I've been gone for a little while. We moved, not too far, but its been exhausting so now I'll have to catch up on quite a dialogue going on here. Be back soon...


Jeanine 4 years ago

We Have been talking...knew you were busy with the baby and thwe house.....welcome back....


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Moving is a whole lot of work but is rewarding when you finally get settled in, especially when you set the nursery up for your beautiful baby boy. I was worried about you, glad to hear you are alright. Jeanine has been doing a great job of guiding me along and I enjoy our conversations very much...When my wife and I divorced, she gave me our new built house, her new car, and everything except her cloths, the bed, a dresser and some pots and pans and we agreed to her having custody of our son with me having full visitation/access and half the perental decisions in his life until he is eighteen years old, I keep him about half the time and he goes to school in my school district. On the day of our divorce court date we both walked in with no attorneys and had everything on paper, the judge couldn't believe his eyes and said that this would be the easiest divorce he has ever seen in his whole career, she and I even sat at the same bench, within less then fifteen minutes we were granted a divorce... Even though I had filed for divorce because of her infidelity, she has always been very supportive and will not do anything to keep our son from knowing his father, she proved this to me through the way she treated my step daughters father. Though my ex is disappointed that my son will not have that strong male figure in his life, she has been giving me suggestions on doctors and other things that go with the transition, she is becoming more comfortable with the idea and has always known that I have had this desire. The funny thing about my ex wifes desire to have my son grow up with such a strong male figure is that when we were married ,she always voiced her disapproval in my manliness, ironic isnt it! I will be careful about the outside ininfluences meddling in my business... I have looked into the world of autogynephilia and crossdreaming, one interesting blog called "living with autogynephilia", http:/autogyn.blogspot.com/ , gave one persons insight on his autogynephilia (AGP) and was something to think about. Almost everything I came across suggested that crossdressers and the transgender have AGP , Blanchard theory. The consensus seems to be that there is that need inside to be that woman even if you do or do not want to be that woman on the outside. It makes alot of sense, I would not know why this is so misunderstood and taboo. I may talk more of this later, because it will be a lengthy discussion. I will ask, do we all have AGP? I can see that if your not completely a heterosexual male or female that you are pushing some degree of AGP. Give me your thoughts.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... your question is the reason for the anger...if we do have AGP, we are not women trapped in a mans body, we are men trapped in mens bodies that have a massive fantasy of being made to be or in love with being made to be or in love with the thought of being a woman... see how offensive that is... it's like me telling you to shape up and do the right thing... get it out of your system man...lol...remember your dad said that... lol... but it's not funny... there are many from our tribe that are in pain because of the body they are in... some of us believe... moi... I believe we are all from a great tribe of "two spirited"individuals...men who know a lot about their own emotions... so much so we have practiced a different way of living here on earth... we know our self deep enough that we have explored the feminine side that they are all just getting in touch with... more about feminine desire and needs than other men... not because we are special, but because we explored... while they explored the artic, we explored the heart... while they explored the stars and gravity, we explored the heart and how to seat a relationship in stone... a belief like this is very narsissistic and probably driven by the OCD to extremes (no different than any other exploration journey really)couples with our own psychosi, makes for and interesting boy, wouldn't you say...lol...... we think we are important enough that all of man and womankind should accept us as man or woman... I different in that one thought alone... I believe the ancients have already led the way, and told us we can be respected completely if we are men who know more about men and woman than anyone else... it's the medical community that has demanded that we join the binary system... now I'll ask you a question... why would they do that...I think it's fear... of the unknown... just as the blood leters of the past thought that letting leaches suck the blood from the body did us good... all of these type doctors were afraid of the doctor who demanded clean towels because he was superstitious that there might be something on those towels that were dirty... this was years before anyone knew about infection carried in filth... it's the same for me... I believe we know things or knew things in the spirit that helped people heal... even if it was only in their minds... a lot of healing is there and if you could heal the mind... it might be able to heal the body itself...if one can think there for just a moment... you can see why they might be afraid... it's their job... and they would lose it... the same reason they killed Christ... it was their jobs they were afraid of losing... not because they thought He was the son of God... like we teach it... who in their right mind... if they knew they were with the son of God would try anything like that... no one... there are stories though of people actually being healed in the body though... and it happened enough that the writers all wanted to document it... where is that today... did I tell you in some cultures we were known as "the keepers of the secrets of God"...open your Sara you are a very special human being...

I am so glad your wife is being so helpful... love doesn't go away... so don't discard it... it changes is all... it's the ones who want it to stay the same that lose it... it's not really lost, it's just not where they are looking anymore...


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... I read the link you listed... interesting...to me AGP is still immature men thinking about their bodies...page through if you can and look at what you will want after you are a woman...the whole trans mentality to me is ingenue in it's delivery... little boys still being little boys... we never grow up... some play with trucks as they grow older... some play with balls... sorry I couldn't resist it... we have to grow up and look at the spirit and why we feel this way... do we feel this way to change our bodies which is what we are all doing now or were we made for a higher or another purpose.. like to help men and woman understand each other... and heal... why is there so much divorce... when in most tribe that had "two spirited "leadership, there wasn't even a word for divorce... it's what we did... we helped people understand each other and therefore helped them understand themselves a little better... "your body can affect people for say 100 years... your spirit can affect people forever"... that's the picture I see each day... nt because I have gone through more or know more or am smarter... it's just there... I see we are to help others... to me it's the negative power or what the Christians call satan... marking us... to make us as scary as he can to the world where no one listens to us... we were healers I tell you... we never cared about changing the body... we dressed as women and as men... at war it's much easier to dress in leggings or pants... in dance and victory, it's much more comfortable to wear a dress or nothing but a loin cloth, showing most of the body... we are man and spirit... Sensual as woman... brave as men... we are "two spirited"... and we are joy... ask any trans if they are joyous...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I see things like the alphabet, the heterosexual male being "A" and the heterosexual female being "Z", the rest of us fall somewhere in between A and Z, a well balanced two spirited person falling at M, half way between. I know this sounds too easy but its just a equation. Its like why has man been killing man over what name they call their god, 500 years or more of holy wars. Why would having AGP make you a man in a mans body or woman in a womans body with just a fantasy, I see it as, dont we all have fantasies and they are also an a scale, to some it is low on the scale and is just a dream and then the further you go up the scale the more real it becomes. Those with a deeper dream start to act on it as a fetish then it turns into a desire and finally it is so great that the desire becomes a need that drives you to do something about it, in this case it would be the decision to transition. When it is at that point then the effected person has to make a choice or direction as to how far or to what degree that that need be filled. Jeanine in your case the need is to be both, the best of both worlds and that makes you happy, right now I am just at that need stage and am starting to act on filling the void, so I cant tell at this point if going all the way or being two spirited will fill my need, it is too early for me. Though I have not even scratched the AGP information, I can still see that some of the people who realized they were AGP have decided to go ahead and transition and some have decided to stay like they are do to factors that influence them, as I have receintly decided that the need is no longer a fantasy or desire and needs to be taken care of. What I would like to add is that unless people know what something is called, some will never know what they are, you are two spirited and I had never heard of that, now that I know, I someday may be Two spirited if I decide not to go all the way. If I had not known of that option and I did not finish the transition then I may have been lost or confused as to what I will be, now I have a new choice on my journey. This is a huge subject. No matter what you call it, we are all human and I wish we all had love and understanding for each other, then the world would truely be a wonderful place. I will spend more time looking into AGP, so I can better understand.


jeanine 4 years ago

Very well said... the problem the community has with AGP is there was not much research done at the time and the terms used were so offensive that even if they were correct, Blanchard has dirtied the waters for years here... he insinuated that all transsexuals were mentally ill... Sara do not... let me repeat... do not go down this road if you want any reputable therapist to help you with hormones... we can discuss it and there is some basis for the theory but they used a study of less than 40 gender variant persons to base their opinion when there are millions of us... Look it up... you will not get any co operation from a real therapist if you go down this road... most believe it is quackery... my self I am willing to look because no one knows what causes this anyway... His terms are so offensive that even Anne Lawerence, Blanchards most advid supported said, we will have to wait for years before the community will take a real look at it... I only tell you this because I know how much you need the hormones... unfortunately there are games going on within the standards of care...

As far as you saying you need to know every thing you can about this thing that has happened to all of us... you are right... Two spirited is not something one chooses... I believe it is the umbrella that all gender variant behavior falls under... the A to Z theory that you described is correct... the reason I believe this is they are the oldest group known to man and most respected...as far as degrees that you explained... that's true...my trans friends all giggle at me and say I have "gender light" yet as we all discuss what happened they realize I have studied as much as they have if not more... I do wished we all did love one another and you are right in how in the world do people fight over what we call our God... I mean War and killing going on in the name of stupidity... what I do know you need more than anything else is hormones and blockers... sooooo play the game until you get your prescriptions... Damn I can't believe I just said that but it's true... be very careful... the only way the standards of care will let the therapist give you hormones is if... you convince them you are a woman inside... I know that's confusing dear...but it's true... Tess_Wegner is a very good source to speak with on this subject... she has transitioned fully and is very happy with her transition and is not in some euphoria but lives in the real world... so contact her and she is a delight...very knowledgeable and sweet... what I dislike the most about transsexuals is most I meet are still very much still on the man side of things... much worse than say your most aggressive dyke... so it is not a great picture we as women are painting... I have so enjoyed speaking with you and look forward to many more conversations... Izettl will be back in here in a few so she has yet another look... you are doing the right thing dear...I did read your comment about how your wife wanted your son to have a mans influence on your son... and your comment about how she always didn't like that about your own character... perhaps it's because yours was a performance of how a man should act... and now that she did have an affair with another, she knows how a man who is a man is supposed to act... I know how hurtful that may sound but, it is also the door for you to heal your relationship with her... I am so sorry if that hurt, but if you really are trans, two spirited or any thing in between... she would know the difference, so try not to be so hard on her... she may have been thinking of you all along... so you will have that discussion one day... it's always a joy to speak with you...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I hear, understand and will heed your warning about not going down the road of AGP with the doctors and theropist, I do not want to jeopardize any chances that I have of obtaining hormones through legal sources... The problem with humans and the medical community on this or any other subjects is that when a person learns or is taught something a certain way, that becomes the gospel, and if their is proof that what they were taught was wrong, they will in most cases still fight to the death to defend what they beleive, unwilling to accept new ideas. This is what is happening with AGP, except do to philosophy and terminology of Blanchard and similar theorist the progression on this subject has slowed. Example, Similar to people being beheaded for saying the world was round when the populous believed that the world was flat, even for years after the world had been proven to be round, people were still being executed for going against the "flat theory"... Though Blanchard was at the threshold of a new revelation on gender varient people, it seems his work was very negatively given and quite discriminating towards the transgender community, along with the unwillingness of the medical community to accept new ideas. Time eventuallly will be the deciding factor.


Jeanine 4 years ago

I agree... it is the slowness to grasp what is in front of us that is maddening...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

It will take someone with enough interest, that is willing to risk their career and reputation, along with enough time and irrefutable facts, to draw enough interest for the medical community to take note that AGP has some validity. Till then we must wait.... This is almost a stupid question for you Jeanine, when a MtF takes hormones, will they have any change in hand and foot size? I dont believe that the bones will change size, I was just wondering if loss of muscle density and fat will change the size of the hands and feet. Inquiring minds want to know. lol. Its that virgin talking again.


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ I just caught your comment about looking at the AGP site that I listed and The trans mentality being ingenue in its delivery. I do suppose that the mentality is somewhat like a niave young girl. I think that the transition is more focused on the physical appearance then what one will do with theirself when the transition is complete. This makes the transitioning person like that "teenage girl" that you speak of.You then ask me to page through and look at what I will want when I am a woman. This im not sure how to answer easily, firstly I am back to ingenue, I can at best say it is uncharted territory, so I can only speculate what it will be like, because I have been a man, This speculation is based primarily on what I have viewed in women through the years. At the present time I do alot of things that are considered femanine, from the way I take care of my home to the way I care for myself and others, on the flip side I am also masculine, I dont believe that much will change other than physically I will have the look, that I feel I need to have and mentally I will not be as aggresive, with a little more compassion and understanding, hopefully at ease with my mind, that would be my objective. Basically I dont understand why I feel the way I do, but for one reason or another feel that I have to make this change to be the person I need to be. The feeling is similar to izettl's article on misunderstanding gender, I believe in that article a baby is raised gender neutral, in most cases of that, most children will naturally choose one or the other, but as we all know, at some point in a persons life some choose to cross over to some degree and that is where I am. I am that child, except it has taken me longer to make that choice. I can only prey that I will find happiness and fulfilment at some point of this journey.


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, The loss of muscle mass does occur and you must be careful... There is loss in bone density so there can be problems with osteoporosis, calcium is a must in the diet. Your Endocrinologist will tell you how much and what you need. He is your most important friend in the medical community.... the therapist I referred you to will know an Endo in your area that is versed in your needs.. no dear,, foot and hand size will not change with weight loss... and if they did we would all weigh a hundred lbs...lol..

Anne Lawrence MD has put her career on the line and is speaking up and out about AGP and it has cost her dearly. She went from being one of the most listened to voices in the community to being cast out like a leper... so there you go... men in dresses I like to call it... little boys who let you know that if you don't play by their rules they'll take their ball... or balls in this case...lol and go home and not let you play...sad really even though I try and make light of it... we are all renegades right now, but one day there will be a messiah in our community who understands and everyone will get it then...

When I spoke of the Ingenue in each of us, I was speaking of what hormones do to your brain... they absolutely make you feel wonderful and have a peace that you seek so they are wonderful... they also turn your quiet male organized self on it's ear... I know because when you speak of your house being clean and everything feminine that will disappear in some ways... my room for instance is a mess this morning because I could find a thing to wear yesterday and there are piles of clothes on the floor... your pantie drawer which is so neat right now, becomes like a large plate of spaghetti...tears can come at a moments notice and hurt over the silliest of things... "why didn't my best friend notice I had no sleep last night and why was she so mean"...lol... that statement seems so stupid right now but after HRT begins you think things like that...lol..it's not a pretty picture.. "a grown man with budding breast, with a masculine nose, strong jaw, with strange hair, because you don't know how to fix it, as mascara tears run down your unfinished bearded face", is a real thing that is coming for you, if you are not careful...the lost of almost all respect comes with this choice on the menu... do your face first along with HRT... do not try and be feminine, it will take care of itself...do not be lulled into believing laser treatments will work... the only true way to clear the face permanently is with Electrolysis... which is almost unbearable up around the nose and lip area... she'll do that last... the best in the south is Avooha Mishael. Look her up on line and she can advise you on who is the best in your area... she is the best thing that ever happened to me, in my transition because she convinced me to do the face first.... while doing the face and it took a year and during that year the hormones did their work also. I did my research and found izettl here on hub pages... there is a trilogy that Izettl has writen.. This one, Mt Father Trans, Misunderstanding gender, and Just because you have boobs doesn't make you a woman...lol... so true... there are all a good read, but also there are some great discussions that she and I have had with each other and others like yourself on these three... my interest was like yours in that I did not want to hurt my children and although they all know, they would be devastated if I had just changed as rapidly as some of our sisters..."the git her done" syndrome...lol... this being said and I have warned you enough... let me say the hormone will ease your mind dear and you will feel absolutely like you are on the right path and it's all the things you have dreamed you have been missing...you will cry a lot more, but laugh and giggle and be silly just to be silly sometimes... you will want to dance so keep your down, if possible and you will look at men differently and that's a lot of fun... the scent will change and you no longer carry that sweaty smell, even when you sweat... stranger than strange you miss that smell and start to notice as a guy walks by... I find myself staring sometimes in summer at the guy working out in the street or the yard with his shirt off and that's a nice sensation deep inside... I sigh when I am close to a man that I care about now... not wanting to bed him as much as respect for his manliness...the brain automatically looks to him for guidance and that is an amazing thing... to willingly be passive around him, with a leaning of the spirit to be close... is quiet a journey, I'm sure you will enjoy... a longing for embrace is no longer one of tenderness which you had with your wife, but a sense of needing to be taken in hand and loved is overwhelming... and that is a very pleasant thing... now that being said... don't give it up to the first guy that spends time with you dear...lol listen to your mother now...lol...lol...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

OK motherrrrrr! lol...


Jeanine 4 years ago

awwwwwwwww... what a sweet girl...lol...now go in there right now and clean up your room...say your prayers and please don't stay on the phone all night... or that damn computer... I mean it...lol...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

When hormones start working on your mind, do you still like doing the same things with a female mind set as you did with a male mind set, and do you start liking other things? Sorry for the vague question. example, I have bird dogs and I love to hunt birds with my dogs, will I still have the same interest or does the mind completely change your priorties?


jeanine 4 years ago

No you are not less unless you make yourself be...just more Annie Oakley... like... different pants and shirt is all...some things d change... things are no longer in their individual boxes, but seem to all be connected... intimacy can be harder to define... pleasure and offense can lie within the same relationship, so there is both from the relationship...on the lighter side... shopping becomes a life long quest...lol... piorities do change... and that's why I said you must go and do your face first while the mones has a chance to set it so to speak... you become much softer in your relationships... and that's where you are wanting to be right... Dear Sara if you take your time here, your son will love you and your ex will only have more respect for you... it's not the easy way and most trans make this massive mistake of moving to quickly for those who still love them... you seem to be such a delight... so stay true to you... but remember "the phrse you. also includes your sons and wife because her blood runs in his vains also... I am delighted that she has made an effort... it shows her concern... her love for her son is larger than the moon... so she knows your blood runs within his vains so she still loves you...

hey ... pray for Izettl for safe delivery and and easy time for she and the child... you know prayer is one of your gifts right... you have a certain power because of the gifts of two spirits... you have more compassion and grace and power to pray... use it... and pay attention.. have a great night...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

izettl~ I do pray for you and your baby. For a safe delivery and a healty, happy baby. Best wishes to you both, with love Sara


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Harry benjamin standard of care is now being called WPATH, World Professional Association for Transgender Health... Michele O'mare, Plainfield Indiana holds HBSC/WPATH very strict, she requires three months of sessions,almost one thousand dollars, every other week and the seven points of (SOC) standards of care, and does not gaurentee that she will write an approval for HRT. Her scype is only considered coaching and will not give you a medical diagnosis for the letter of approval. I may still use her as a theropist, her crudentials look good and she sounds thorough, without being a gatekeeper. She is listed under gay business owners. I would sort of like to have an evaluation from someone, she has handled over one hundred trans patients, maybe I am just crazy. What is your thought mom.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Your first thought is self medicate... but don't... if you can avoid it... find someone who is friendlier... Gays have not always been receptive to TS or gender variant people... we were the first the stand up for gay rights but the last on their Christmas list when it comes to legislation...sorry if that sounds bias... but it's the way I feel...I'm sure she is very good... i found someone who was hormone friendly and she was a God sent for me... so look around and see... tell whoever you go to that you are going to self medicate because this is driving you crazy... so you are coming for advice... this is still the only self diagnosed disease in America... so it's kind of strange that there are any gate keepers... I used to hate Harry B because of it... if I want to change my body I should have the right... but that's not the way it is...the only elective surgery in America that you have to have someone else permission... now with all that being said... after I met Izettl and knew about her father, I have changed my mind and now think that we do need gate keepers...just find the right one... you'll know it on your first or second visit... some even advertise... "I am not interested in keeping you from your goal" I think is what my therapist promo read.....communicate your desires but mostly you need to see if you really are going all the way... myself after I had been on hrt for a few years, I was pleased to be considered trans-light...lol... and because of that wonderful son of yours... you may choose differently... you will still need the hormones to achieve this state of mind... hope you are well... thanks for praying for izettl... it's important for you to know that your God listens... thank you again...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Thank you Jeanine, AKA mom, lol, I have went ahead and scheduled an appointment with her for Wednesday next week. I would like to start hormones as soon as possible but would like to see what her point of view is when she and I talk. If I do not like her I have the choice to find someone else. I have went back up this hub and reread some of the old comments, izettl and yourself have been helping others like myself for awhile now, you are the teachers and I am greatful for that. Let me know when izettl has her baby and how they are doing, I am still praying for her and the baby.


jeanine 4 years ago

Good for you... action is the loudest word... I will keep you informed... keep me in the loop and let me know how it goes... thanks for praying...


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, Just thought of something... when you go in, do not say I want to start hormones as soon as I can... you must be more urgent than that, your own feeling dear and how well you articulate that to her determines whether or not she writes the letter... because this is a self diagnosis, you must seek every solution before hormones, really sweet heart, you must be very careful. Do her this time, you can't be the helpful guy that you have been on some of your comments, when you were giving fatherly advice.... leave him at home, I know you haven't been her a lot in public so relax and let your girl work for you.... no demands, no commands, just a young woman who is pleading...pleading for help... when your can release yourself then she will see you need the help... and believe me dear they are the help that makes life worth living... I will be praying for you as you go... our God goes before us....He loves you both, remember "and He made the two as one".... it doesn't say he made them one... "as one" and "one" are two different things...look closely it's your gift... and although today you look at how to change your body... as you mature you will see the purpose is much greater... that is why I have so much hope for you... Izettl and I have been discussing like you said for some time how some of the info on trans is very twisted... just slightly but still twisted...we are truly more than just one or the other.... we are two... or we all know a lot about the other sex... I believe we are bi-spiritual bi emotional... as well as bi-sexual... the only one that we are addressing, in the trans community bi sexual... the culture that we are living in emotionally is in the dark ages... this culture doesn't even have those words available to the population of the world yet... one day we as trans will stop looking at our abilities as something went wrong and I should be a woman or a man... one day soon dear... and I mean this with all my heart... one soon we will stand and take our rightful place... all saying "Worthy is the Lamb of God" "For He is worthy to be praised"... just as He died for man and woman... He died for us as two spirits... all my love to you dear... that you will be whole as two and not choose one or the other...you are so unique ... and I wished I had been there or some of our tribe to hold your parents and tell them that they had received the greatest of all gifts in the family of man... a gift between heaven and earth... and gift called Sara-phim...those who surround the throne of God... yes there is even a reason you picked your name Sara... look it up in revelation... these creatures are the most beautiful in all of heaven... take a moment and consider you possibilities if I am correct... and consider how much better you feel about yourself even if I'm just a crazy...lol... listen to your mom... she knows some things... lol... all my love to you and your dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I am so scared and confused, as I set here with tears in my eyes. I know what I have felt inside for so long but am I suppose to be taking this journey, part of me says just suck it up as I have for so long, the other part say to hell with everyone and do what I need to do for myself. Im being told that I am selfish for that, form others and from myself. I can now see why so many transgender go away from everyone and start a new life, Im sorry for this feeling, it seems that it would be much easier on myself,and others in the long run, then my family could per-verbally celebrate my death and then go on with there life without having to deal with me around and all their uneasiness and embarrassment. Im not going to do that, it would be too easy, my life has been filled up to this point with pain and sorrow and I shouldnt expect that to be any different with transition, so for now I am going to tough this out. Why me,Why am I like this? Sorry, I am just a little down, you would think im on hormones right now.I guess this is what its going to feel like....I can play the "game" so that I self diagnose to her that I have needed hormones for a long time and I cant live without them. When you say you must seek every solution before hormones, I take it you are talking about her philosophy before she will prescribe them, or are you telling me to seek every solution before I start them? When I calm dow I will look my chosen name up. I cant imagine living in hell is any worse. I am a wreck.


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ my mind is racing a thousand miles a minute, how much difference will it make , going in dressed as a man, jeans,basketball shoes, Tshirt with the partial look of a man when I go to theropy? I am clean shaven, thin eyebrows, I just dont think I can pull off a skirt and heels right now until I get more hair removal sessions and some meds for the mind. I am trying to go slow for everyones sake, especially my son. I also can see why trans are in that rush to git-r-done, it just speeds up getting over the pain.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Aw Sara, I'm so sorry you are down, try not to be... yes I meant present her from the inside... it's quite alright to present as a male right now... the therapist is used to that... I'm just saying down try and solve this yourself.. it's to big... and yes to everyone else you are being selfish and that's part of the territory... and why I have been writing to you... you will do fine... and fine is acceptable in this case... it's not game and she will know if it is... so be very careful, just let her know how you feel inside and she'll take it from there... the main reason Izettl and I are here is for you to have another opinion in your bag...the suck it up and let it lie thing will not work, it just returns later and you are aware of that I'm sure.... and no being down it not what it feels like... you are doing good,, so stop beating yourself up if you can... there is an overwhelming desire to run but you down have to... the girl inside is pleading to come out and she is the one that is afraid... he is the one that's confused... now listen very carefully... the guy you just described..."jeans,basketball shoes, Tshirt with the partial look of a man when I go to theropy? I am clean shaven, thin eyebrows, I just dont think I can pull off a skirt and heels right now until I get more hair removal sessions and some meds for the mind" is really the girl you are and the girl you will be, she will always be a little more guy than her girl friends, and that's a good thing if you can look at her... the look you just described is really a girl, you just don't want to be her right now... read back through some of what Izettl said about her dad being ultra fem to start with but has become more and more androgenist as his transition is into it's first decade... it's the reason I have been telling you to look at "two spirited" people, we dress for comfort, so I believe you may be further along than you think... I believe part of the psychosis we all carry as trans is our inability to see that men are very feminine and women can be very practical... explore that within yourself... because when it comes down to it, you really are the last call... what most of us think and the medical community has said is the only way the confusion will stop is if we change the body... I'm of the head that statement is not true... and that's also where AGP research has come from...

Listen you will do great, you have come this far, so done put her back in the closet, that's the angst that you carry... she is not going back in there, it''s dark and cold and she knows a lot about you... but the rest of your family and friends do not know her... understand.. the slow cook is for them, but it's really for you... let your wife and your boy help you be yourself... you are not only yoursons father but you are his second mother... you are not only your wifes ex, but handled correctly, you are her friend, maybe not best friends but I believe she loves you more than anyone else on earth... she married you once so you are intriguing to her...you must see it as a gift... most make mistakes in thinking they must change completely... when in reality, you must just stop hiding her in the closet... she is not well and your inner man doesn't want her to die... I am different in that I never tried to repress that side of me...so I don't hate this body I live in... and outlaw so to speak... for me the change would be to unsightly for myself... that doesn't mean I don't want to change, it just means I'm willing to put up with being butch and fem for the rest of my days... you are just as the staging area that all trans come to... what's unique in this situation is Izettl has had a different childhood and I have had a different transition than the norm... those looks into out lives are priceless and we know that... these feels will not go away and every trans knows that... but what each does not know is this discomfort of being out of place never goes away either... Izettl speaks of it in this trilogy about gender... her dad still struggles with it and so does everyone else I know in the trans community... some say they don't but I can see they do... it's why so many of us go ulta fem... it's an effort to do away with those feelings... what I'm saying is get passed that, they don't go away and I'm not sure they should go away... think about if you had been a woman all you life, and the man you see before you was trying to get out... would you help him as much as as little as you have helped her... sure you would and that's what this is all about... help both of the people you are... no one knows how to do that better than you... so stop your crying sweet heart... it doesn't have to be hard and painful... the quickness of the change is what is painful... look at it as you are learning to walk... you fall every time as a child but you still want to get to that coffee table and finally you pull up... well that's where you are dear... and now that you can stand up and look around... it's scary...lol... don't be afraid... this is part of the path... but because you are taking the time to surround yourself with people who will help you... it doesn't have to be painful... you have to please you... not any of us or them... please you.... I know you can't believe it but the hormones with solve a great number of your worries...do not be sad... but also be aware that you have impressed most of the people around you are they wouldn't care if you transitioned or not... you must show them and yourself that she is not a destroyer... the one thing that most trans don't see... is that there are many people who love them... because we have trouble loving ourselves... it's our own hate of this body that trips most of us up... take a deep breath and try and take that first step... there's no way to learn to walk without falling... that's the one thing all of us did... we were so afraid to be her that we waited... don't wait hon... you can do it... but remember don't do it like me or anyone else... you are so special and so unique, so totally beautiful... yes you are... don't be down... life is worth the living... mom


jeanine 4 years ago

I am just checking in again and rereading some of what you said... in regards to looking for every solution... you need to explain to her that you have looked in every place within yourself to find the solution, so it's the reason you are here to see her... she'll understand, she has a lots of experience... don't stress... no one really knows the reason you are this way or why you ended up here...I don't believe that stuff about let your family grieve, and it's why I am a great believer in looking at duel gender as a gift instead of a curse or something we need to change... that change thing seem almost arcaic to me... I was always think, why is it I need to change my body... they answer to match your brain's picture... think about that picture for a moment... I can see taking hormones, and even some surgery, but why would I change my outside before I change my inside... and that's really all I'm saying... if you transition, fully, why will you be doing it... to fit in?... dear you'll never fit in... you are caring a gift... I'll give you some knowledge here that is for later but it might help you now... why you ask... the gift you have been given is the girl inside of you... and really it's for the understanding of women, it was never meant for you to be a woman... the negative power twist everything just a little to make things run off the road... the positive is just that... you are beautiful the way you are, you just have to learn to use that part of yourself to help others... it's really why we are all here... trans and non trans alike... It says "love your neighbor as you love yourself"... learn to love yourself, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you... you have grown up in a world that doesn't know our kind, hormones and therapy with help you get back to that love for yourself... remember when you were a child, you had no problem loving yourself... "get back, get back, get back tio where you once belonged"...lol.. The Beatles had it right... "JoJo was a man who thought it was a woman", the twist by the negative is, if he can get you to change your appearance then those you are to help will be afraid to let you... understand... change the inside first, it won't be long, be patient, let your mind wrap around it and hey these drugs are so good, your mind will be at ease in a few short weeks... when my therapist finally asked why... I needed them I said.. I need them where my mind can find some rest from my brain telling me I had to do something about this body... and being men and wanted it done... that's where a lot of us make the mistake... the "Git er done" syndrome... the release from the drugs does do that you know... it arrest the brain for periods of time, and you can rest... when the brain is at rest with this disorder or gift , whatever way you look at it... the mind has some moments to think clearly and make the right choices.... there is less pain for you and those involved if they can see you have thought it all through... and that's what you are doing dear, encourage yourself... you are God's own creation... look at the trees... if he made that many different kind... why would he only make one kind of woman or one kind of man... we are all originals... so and this is your mother talking again... try not to blame it on God and say well He made a mistake and put me in the wrong body.... the mistake is our society has not taught our parents that they may have a super gifted child that is different in every way... my parents were from the country so they never let on I was different than anyone of the so called normal boys, they taught me everything I did was to be used or to be useful... when I was what the rest saw as a girl, my mother and dad never said, that's for girls, when I could our run all the boys, they never said that's what all boys do... understand, a lot of it is , your parents did know to release the child they had... it is a gift, do not, let me repeat do not, see this as a curse or something bad... you must see it for what it is... do not look at it trough my eyes, or the therapist eyes, but only through your eyes... tell me who she is... and if you know, then write her down, she is really my best friend and I could never do anything to harm her, but if you ask her or the fem side of my person, what to do with him, she'll say the same thing, that I am her best friend and she would never do anything to hurt me... I am two that live as one...hope this helps... remember you are the most special person on earth... I know that sounds like your mother, but it really is true... and that is what you must tell you little boy also... and it's true... it's true...lol... have a wonderful day dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Thanks for helping me feel better, I have spent the last few days being verbally beat up by my ex and a friend. I didnt expect this journey to be easy but I have been letting it get to me. My ex went from being somewhat supportive to having second thoughts and being quite angry with me, it has gotton so bad that my step daughter had took it on herself without my knowledge to have a trans friendly friend, talk with her... Last night my step daughter and I went to Indianapolis to have dinner and while in the city we stopped at an eye center and I had ask her to help me pick out two pair of feminine glasses, we had no sooner stepped in the store and started picking out some cute frames and and a song on their sound system caught my attention, Aerosmith was singing Dude looks like a lady, myself standing there with a pair of womans glasses on, I commented to her and we both started laughing uncontrolably, too ironic. After ordering the glasses with my prescription we drove to a nice Italian restaurant and had a terrific dinner together. What an emotional roller coaster.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Keep your chin up, you are doing you for the first time so don't over do... take is easy and laugh as much as you can...let me know how the session goes...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Big day and a day to start down this path... take a deep breath... and let it out...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~I must start by saying thanks again mom, you are a dear for comforting me. I just came back from my theropist appt in Plainfield and she was nice. It was an hour long and it went very well. She brought up Harry Benjamin and I ask about the three month wait, she informed me that the wait was just dropped and that she was pleased with our session and that it looked to her at this point that I needed hormones and wanted to know what I wanted out of theropy, besides HRT because she already expected that. I let her know that I wanted to know if I was out of my mind/weird/or something else. She told me that in the last two years she has helped over one hundred transgender people and I am not weird, and that I am telling her the same as they have. She let me know that she can give the meds to me right away but wants to get a session or two more in, so she can verify the documentation that she is required to present. We ran out of time and she did confirm that I can scype her when I get a web cam and microphone, it will count, she feels comfortable with what I am saying. Though the trip is an hour and forty five minutes, I am still going to go to her office if the weather stays nice because I like to talk to her face to face. She also told me that many if not most Trans have already done extensive research like I have and that most come in already on over sea hormones, so she is glad that Harry B has dropped the three month wait.I cant wait to get the meds and and am anxious to see her again. I had ask her so much more this session and still have many more questions.


Jeanine 4 years ago

So proud of you dear... and I never thought you were weird... remeber to learn to love more like a women first... her loves is full of sacrifice... she is long suffering for her family and has respect for her childs mother... you doctor will take care of the meds... im here to remind you of your spirit man or woman... or mom...lol... understand...again I am so proud of you... I amd busy with my own family right now but wanted to take a moment and be here with you to thank God for letting you find an open minded therapist... and although you know many things because we all study... you must promise yourself you will explore two spirited people... for one daythat will be how we are known once more..."oh my... I'm sorry Michele, didn't I introduce you to my daughter Sara... yes is she quite beautiful... thanks...lol...: lol...lol... I couldn't resist... so happy for you...and it's better if a woman is comforted... I certainly am proud of you sweetheart.... I'll leave you a note in the morning... have a wonderful dream feeled sleep dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I hope everything is well with your family and yourself, you have been the light at the end of the tunnel, I love you for that. Take care of your family, You are always in my prayers.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, I know this is an exciting day... the 12th of Jan. will always be, for today you can begin a new...remember to take it slow... the hormones will do the rest for your body and brain... but practice internally will make one more feminine... remember also you will become more like a young teen, then a complete know it all teen, so try and be kind to those that you love... your best bet really is your ex. she is still hurting but you can include her not force her, but include her in asking her to help you try and understand this side... be sweet and kind... caring and understanding... it's your job to do those things, if you really want to become the woman of your dreams... most trans get it wrong... they think that everyone else is supposed to do those things for them... then when they run everyone away we often say... where the heck is everyone... they don't love me... boo hoo... lol... look at yourself in the mirror each morning and say... it's not them... it's me...help me lord to be me... and help me let them see the best part of me... remember cleanliness is next to Godliness... bath a bunch... it's the one thing that I disliked most about growing up with my boy side... he smelled... yucky all the time... I finally put my foot down around eleven or so and made him bath... lol... I know that sounds goofy but hey, the great moment for me was after I started hormones my scent changed... now he hates the way I smell... lol...lol... not really... we are best friends like I said.. he has protected me with his life... his body and I love him... hey put on your fav tight jeans, converse and a sweet sweat shirt... a little make up... start slow and very little make up... go down to star bucks and scare the boys...lol...it's always good for a giggle... plus most don't really care... it's just those who have an issue with their own gender usually... you must be careful around them... they will hurt you and won't to destroy you... they are really trying to destroy themselves from feeling this way... early mornings are best... people all look a little different at that time...lol...listen sweet heart I am so proud of you... study to show thy self approved... is really the case here... pray for me as I pray for you... love on that little boy... your son as well as the boy you have been living in that lent you his body for all these years... do not forget him for he has loved you the most.. when he could have taken his own life and stopped this at anytime... he chose to let you grow... that is an amazing love.... you are more being two than being one...lol... everybody knows one plus one is two... and one is well... just one...lol...lol... so proud of you... mom..


Jeanine 4 years ago

Buy a mac dear... if you are changing your life... it will make your life so much better... it has a built in camera and mic...

when she ask you again about what you want from therapy, tell her you want what ever girl wants, a handsome rich husband, who knows his way around in the bedroom and business, a home, 2 and half kids with a mercedes in your name, you want to be a size two and make plenty of money... see what she says... if she can deliver that tell her your mama is coming to see her soon... lol...tell her you want peace of mind, because your brain keeps bothering you about this gender thing... tell her you need someone to protect you from the wide swings you see in our community... tell her you want to learn the balance of being both man and woman... she hasn't heard that one yet... or maybe she has... ask her if she knows how to skip the teen years while you are immersed in hormones... and last but not least, does she have anyone in her care looking for a penis slightly used and soon to be able to be attached to a friendly FTM transsexual... lol... let me know how you are and how you are feeling...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ I just smiled and laughed when you spoke of cleanliness, its just a subject that caught me off guard, one that come out of nowwhere.lol. I have always liked to be clean, not to the point that I wont get dirty, but most the time I bathe or shower twice a day,once in the morning when I wake and in the evening so that I can wash the days dirt and troubles away, that is something that my parents, instilled in me at a young age and I have always found refreshing. Besides how is a girl suppose to look good without staying clean. I laughed so hard when you spoke of going to Star Bucks to scare the boys, I will surely think of this statement, the day I do and am also sure to get a good giggle out of the experience. I will try to be careful of the ones who are insecure so they wont hurt me. I know not to expect to much but I am starting to feel like I am on the right track, it has been a long time coming. Have a wonderful day.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hey Sara... I knew it was off the wall, but you would be surprised how many girls still act like boys in their hygiene. I know you are on the right path and that's why I can't actually joke about it some... some time on this hub I have had a few not understand that you might as well laugh as to cry... I am so happy for you dear... izettl will be back soon... she is about to have this baby, so she can help a lot in areas I can't... I can help you feel good about yourself... that's what I do... I can help you believe in you....lol... so glad you are having a few moment to exhale... you will do great... you are still young enough... and this behavior doesn't ever go away... there is one thought I would like to share with you though... in the Christians bible it speaks of taking every thought captive and reviewing it... whether it's you or God or the negative power... use that as much as you can... some times... it's really not you but your circumstance, so I tell you this because when you do go on hormones, you will not be the same every again... which in one way you will love that, but in another way, unless you are careful, you will do some silly stuff... and silly is fine, but the next page after silly in some books, is the stupid page, so be your own best friend... have a great day...


Jeanine 4 years ago

why I can joke about it some I meant to say...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Mom, I knew what you meant, and you do make me laugh sometimes and feel good about myself too. Maybe soon you can explain how to stop breaking my nails, lol. On a serious note, I have not came out to my parents, and honestly am as scared as hell and not sure what course of action would be best and what time frame to do it on. I have some thoughts but am not sure if this is the right way to go about it and have no idea at all how to tell them without being banished from the kingdom. This is one that I would wish for both, transgender and the childs point of view . I assume fortunate to myself is that I have very few friends and family in my life to tell. I have sorted this out in stages, I have accomplished stage one by telling the first group, my brother, step daughter, a friend and my ex. Stage two will come soon and will involve a few more friends, which works out for me because I live far enough from my parents that none of my friends know my folks, so there will be little chance for them to find out through the grapevine unless stage one lets the cat out of the bag. Then I am thinking stage three will take awhile longer, after I have been on hormones for quite some time, where I will ever so slowly start looking the part, little by little, so I grow on them, and this stage will consist of my parents and friends that I dont feel will take it well. By seeing me grow over time Some will start making the connection on their own or will be so use to the way I look that it won't shock them when I finally tell them. Holy cow, doesn't anyone have a textbook on the process of coming out!... Though I dress as a guy around my son right now, to add insult to injury, my son has been commenting about guys on TV dressed as women, as "thats dad", to my ex, when she angerly told me, I ask her why he said that and she said his answer was ," daddy has long hair and is looking like a girl". I dont know weather to laugh or cry on that one, but do know that children are more observant than we give them credit for, you have to love them. Because the Harry Benjamin three month wait on HRT was lifted, the theropist said that I could speed up the process by seeing her sooner, for her to make her evaluation, so I have scheduled an appointment for next Thursday instead of every other week, I am so excited to go see her. Last but not least, izettl, you and your baby are still in my thoughts and prayers, with love, Sara


Katie 4 years ago

Hi

This article or blog or whatever it is is really strange for me. I googled the term transvestite after being afraid to for ages.

I am sixteen years old, nearly seventeen, and in june 2011 my mother left my father. i wasn't sure why at the time. the only explanation was 'i didn't love him the same as i loved him before'. my siblings accepted this and moved on. theyre both younger then me. i couldnt.

i asked my mum why. after a while she claimed hed kissed his friend, a woman, and it had hurt her a lot. but my dad spoke to me not knowing what i knew and said that my godparents thought that hed kissed the lady too, but he hadnt. i didn't know what to believe.

about a month after being told this and midway through the divorce, my mum sat me down alone in my bedroom at her house and said that she didnt love my dad any more for one reason. he still loved her, and women. but my daddy liked to dress up as a woman. a tranvestite. i didnt know what to do or say. she promised me not to tell anyone, but i was so upset, my two best friends and boyfriend had to force me to tell them. i cried so much.

my dad doesnt know that i know. my brother and sister have no inkling.

its led to me being extremely sad all the time. every time he mentions i need a new bra or i should wear this cos it makes my figure look nice, or i should get this brand of make up, i get so scared and worried. i dont mind how my dad dresses or how he acts, hes still my daddy. but i dont know if i can trust him anymore.

so that my daddy and mum dont see this, i put it under a false name. i hope this doesnt offend anyone..

thankyou for putting something on the internet so i can see it


Jeanine 4 years ago

Katie I am so sorry you are having to face this...it will turn out for you but it's still very sad... keep your chin up and talk all you want here... we are all here to help... Izettl has more experience from being a child of a transsexual... so she will be back on very soon... she is having her own child so keep her in your prayers as we pray for you and your family... you are a wonderful child I can tell because I can hear your concern your dad... He still loves you very much, he is just pre occupied right now... see when he was a child he felt the way he does now and he was a fraid so he hid how he felt... so if you keep something bottled up like that for a long time... when it finally comes out... it's like a dam bursting so ... all the water will go through in a few and then you can start to reason with him... until then come here and ask or talk to us anytime you want... there are some wonderful people here so try not to be sad and try and keep a positive look on what is happening...have a good night...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi Katie, I am Sara,and this hub was written by izettl, a very nice young lady, she has been out for a few weeks because she is having a baby. Izettl ,Jeanine and I have been cooresponding for about 6 weeks now and they have been extremely helpful. I will try to help some but may not be the best resource for you right now, but if you check into this hub periodically you will find someone that has more information for you. I can say for sure that your dad has not done this,to lose your trust, it is just something that he likes or feels he needs to do, for himself. It doesnt change the fact that he is your dad and he loves you so much, and would protect you with all his life. You are special to him and he would not intentionally do anything to misguide you, he also needs you to love him. I know this because my situation is somewhat like your fathers, except I have finally chosen to start my transition from male to female. This does not mean that your father will choose to become female, most crossdressers have no interest in becoming a woman, they do it for other reasons. I am sorry that your mom has taken it so hard and decided to leave your dad. There are many women that encourage their partner to dress in womens cloths and still have great relationships with them, on the flip side some are strictly against it. Hang in there, your dad loves you like I do my 6yo son. You may not like or understand why he does this but please dont abandon him, he needs his daughter as much as you need your dad. I know this is a difficult time for you and your family, just try to keep an open mind through all of this. Things may seem hopeless but eventually they will get better.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara when you see your therapist next... ask her how you deal with coming into your own with bring the baggage and guilt along with you... she want be expecting you to be moving toward solution... most of us are still in the mode of why did this happen or why can't i fix this...so move to something she can help you with... it is the most important part of transition to me... "how do I not less, when less is part of what I am growing into according to the world"... I hope that makes sense...all trans have it... no matter how confident we have been as men, our own picture of woman is less, so it does deal everyone of us a strange hand... hope you are well... thanks so much for your kind words to Katie...

Katie, Sara is right in that your dad loves you more than you'll ever know... this thing that has happened to all of us, is hard for everyone... if you google..."two spirited people"... you will see we have been here in most tribes of people since the beginning of time... two spirited people are individuals who have a basic understanding of both men and women... because we live in a society that does not encourage such behavior, we as TS(two spirits or transgenders) have suppressed part of who we are...this type of individual cannot live fully and love fully until we have addressed this in our own lives... be patient with your parents, neither one of them understand it either... there are great places like this hub to look and see though... the great thing about Izettl is she has lived through what you are going through right now... so I know she can help, so keep your chin up and stand tall, your dad loves you still and you will both find a way to express it... be with your mom and let her vent, she needs it and she is broken hearted... and feels betrayed... but she shouldn't if she can help it... this is in our brains and there's nothing we can do except face ourselves... there are many new things happening though in our community and because it is such a new community in this latest form... you are a part of it and your experience can define some of it for the next girl that has to face this with her father or mother... it's why izettl wrote the hub... she needed to state how she felt... some are angry... and hurt... some are just seeking knowledge... remember communication is the key... when you come to the moment and wonder... should I say something or not... always say something... if moves you to the next place... we are praying for you dear... you make it through and you are young enough to make it work for all involved... help both your parents see your side of the story... don't wait to share your heart with them... hope you have a great day...

Sara... keep me in the loop ... let me know how you are dear...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... I meant to say..."how do I not feel less, when less is part of what I am growing into according to the world"... how do I not feel ashamed when all around me I see others are ashamed that I can not be like them... how do I not feel less when the picture my dad and all those as I was growing up.. gave me of my mother or his wife or any woman I knew... was less than a man... it is the challenge of the centuries... and the primary reason I have embraced the two spirit model... it's the only place in history where we were respected for being this way... understand...yikes it's in my brain...lol... have a great day dear...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Katie~ Myself, like your dad likes to dress like a woman and I have a son and step daughter, you probably have read that already, the only difference between him and I right now is that my wife and I did not divorce because of it,she reluctantly allowed me to dress sometimes in our bedroom and on occasion,(my step daughter not knowing I liked to dress in womans cloths) would dress me up, as a little girls game, before dinner and have me stay dressed while we ate, we divorced for other reasons and recently I have finally came to terms with what I am, I am transgender and not just a crossdresser/transvestite, so the things I tell you are mostly from the perspective of your dad. Wearing womens clothes is not the end of the world like some people want to believe, women have been wearing mens cloths for as long as I can remember without anyone making a big deal out of it. There are more reasons than I know, why men dress in womens cloths, for me it was something that I felt I needed to do from an early age, somewhere around 6 years old or so, I vividly remember when my mom caught me in a pair of her sheer,tan pantyhose, she was very disappointed and said that she would tell my father if I did it again, I was so afraid but couldn't stop doing it, just was more secretive about it. Girls/womens cloths feel nice, they are smooth and soft, they make you feel pretty and gentle, its also exciting knowing that you are doing something that is not illegal but is taboo, its risque', I looked up to my mom and wanted to be more like her, more like you girls, the list goes on and on. As an adult, girlfriends would ask me to dress in their cloths without knowing that I already liked to crossdress, even after my divorce, the last two women that I dated ask me to dress in their things and when I said ok they helped me put things on. What I am trying to say is that you wouldnt believe how common it is for men to dress in womens cloths, its just hidden because the world doesn't want to believe that a masculine guy should be so girly, and your father would initially be embarressed that his children knew that their rough and tough dad, liked to dress like a girl, its just not a macho thing to do. That is why he hasnt told you, he knows you look up to him and he is afraid of losing your respect if you found out, he loves you more then the world and more than his own life. Try to use your own mind to think things through and not your moms, because your mom is speaking from what she feels as being hurt and betrayed by her love, her husband and her childrens father and isnt in a clear frame of thought right now, and may never be. Some women are very adventurous and open minded and enjoy different things and some are very close minded to exploring different ideas and beliefs. I am not beating up on your mom I am just trying to help you understand. Its to bad for your mom and family because she could have used what your dad is doing to her advantage and spiced things up in thier love life and helped your father fulfill his fantasy while keeping you family together. Its not just settling out its just using things for your benefit and not as a downfall, why I say this is because what your dad is doing, isn't wrong or illegal, it just fun and adventurous and ment to hurt no one, not even your mom, you said she told you that he still loves her, he does and hates that what he has done has broke up his family, it wasnt his intention. Now you have the choice to make the best of what is left, and love and support both of your parents or you can do the same as your mom and throw your father away, this is a decision that only you can make. Just keep in mind that your dad is still your dad, he has feelings and loves you and his family, even in womens cloths,and if you disconnect with him now your relationship in the future will never be the same. It would be a shame to destroy your relationship with him because of this and besides, he now has a better sense of what girls like to wear so go shopping with him, he will probably let you wear things that most dads usually wouldn't let their little girls wear, because he understands girls better, and you may find that he is alot more fun than you realize. Not just that old man whos your dad... Love, Sara


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine~ I am about to explode,lol, I am excited for the next theropy appointment, and cant wait. Heres the virgin you said I am, I feel like a young girl going shopping for my first mini skirt, lol. I hope she prescribes me hormones Thursday, KABOOM! You wont be able to guess that im on them because I cant help but tell you when I get them, sorry, a girls got to talk to her mom, even if you are my adopted mom, lol. I went to my parents house yesterday and my hair is almost an out, they didnt say anything about it till I started to leave and mom said to my dad that I sure looked better with short hair, that I am so handsome, then my dad said that it doesnt matter as long as I dont show up with a dress on, I was about to die. All I could think to say was "that was going to be next week", when I started out the door mom ask for another hug and I said wait let me get my dress on, dad laughed. Afterwards I thought and I should have said, well I will be the daughter that you never had, lol. This is tearing me up, not telling or knowing how to tell my mom and dad, I know that it will go bad. Back to the gender theropy, I have so many questions to ask her, I have written down the things that you have said because they are also on my mind along with how to make this situation better for my little boy and how to handle this with my mom and dad along with meeting other transgender people and lots more. This is feels like a locomotive, once it is rolling it is hard to slow down. I will let you know how things go. Do you really think I should tell her that I want to learn the balance of being both man and woman? I am just wondering if the medical community is ready to accept this or will it keep her from prescribing hormones due to some other diagnosis. Your parents already knew but due you think I should wait to tell my parents and how do you think I should go about it. I should just tell them I got a job making lots of money as a drag queen, or the circus only had one job offer for a trap ease girl, just kidding. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive! (part of a quote from Sir Walter Scott, year 1808 ).


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara ... I know you are excited and I'm excited for you... and yes it's quite alright to tell your mom... even if I am adopted...

Your mom already knows... and your dad is suspect for sure... so talk to them and say what a wonderful job they have done... just tell them how afraid you have always been... and didn't want to bring hurt and pain their way, but realize lately that you are destined for your own pain if you don't at least address it...they will understand even if they are shocked....

do not... let me repeat do not try and get the therapist to accept bot man and woman... but after you get the mones you owe it to yourself to do it if you can... also when you are explaining it to your parents it's better to try and let them know you are both to start with... you have to give them some hope... then as you slowly change you can break more and more to them... remember slowly dear... "and can you clean up this room of yours, all this jumping on the bed has made this room a mess... and pick up all those stuffed animals...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi mom, nothing new going on here,but I will keep you up to date when I have something. Take care of yourself and your family,and also hope izettl and the baby are doing fine.


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... did you go to your therapist yesterday... and if so how did it go...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi mom, I miss you! I went to the theropist this afternoon. It went fine, she had Emailed some forms earlier in the week that help her do her evaluation,and had me review them before this visit. They covered my life in stages from birth through present day, and were in the form of questions. When I went to the appointment she covered over half of them and wrote down my answers. She ask things like how I had felt at birth and how I was treated as a baby, how was my family, when did I start feeling the way I do, etc. She is building history and a time line to establish a decision. At the end of the session, I commented that the fifty minutes went fast, she told me that if I wanted, from now on I could do eighty five minute sessions for just a little more money, to speed things up. I think things went ok today, I was not as excited by the time I had arrived due to the weather. I had to drive in a snow squall and snow covered roads for almost two hours, I would have skyped her but I had already left before it started snowing hard. I had seen almost a dozen wrecked cars and trucks on I-70 before I made it to Inddianapolis and I still had to make it to Plainfield, but it worked out fine. When I finished the session I drove over to eyeglass world and picked up both pair of my new really cute girly glasses and then went to burlington coat factory and bought myself a winter wool coat to go with those glasses,lol. I have already got that shopping bug you talked about. Tomorrow I have an appointment for some more face work... I am having a hard time finding and making a decision on who is going to remove my tattoos, even with the Internet, tattoo removal information is a mess, who does good work and who is a hack shop!?... I hope Katie has found what she was lookeng for, it still surprises me how much fuss everyone makes over guys wearing womens cloths, what a double standard. It should be the guys complaining when women dont want to use all the great things that they have to make themselves beautiful. Maybe some day. How have you been? I really have missed you.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, so glad your appointment went well... and so sorry you had to do the snow thing... boo... and yes the shop till you drop thing is coming... I would do the skype every time I could, unless you just need the time to get out while you are starting to dress... it

s not the clothes that they are making the fuss about, it's how important those clothes seem to you and I that is scary... so that's why I continue to say, try to embrace your entire person in this world... for all non two spirited people don't have a clue how this affects you... and easy on the statement about all the things that make them beautiful... a lot of those products were invented by men just to sale to women... like the bra for instance...skimpy panties are made for men now women... thongs are the worst but they do turn the guys on so women wear them... and remember, you are only wanting to dress in order to attract the guys... so many trans say oh know I'm a woman and that why I do it... late transitioners are so full of angst that they don't even try and find a man... they just say, oh I'm lesbian... give me a break... if you are lesbian and trans... you are a transvestite that wants to lose the bump between your legs... a good man is the only reason to transition... fully... and is the main reason I practice two spirited beliefs... I am in love with a woman...

I am so glad she is taking you through the change for you to see when it happened...reality is you won't need her after you get the hormones... but will need to spend the money on clearing the face or on your Endo or shopping... oh god there it is again..lol..lol..I miss you to baby girl... I check in here everyday so write... I would love to hear from you... as far as paying her more... thats the game so asking up from... how much quicker will it get me there... remember to try and be balanced you are not yet functioning as a woman so dress conservative and not fully woman yet because you have a little ways to go... what are the tattoos like... and what the hell were you thinking... and please don't go get a tramp stamp on your back...lol...maybe a small rose just above your bikini line...

I too hope Katie is finding her way...

What face work are you having done... miss you lots... write...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

The face work right now is having all the stubble removed, which will take a long time, but it is on its way out. I am fairly fortunate that I dont have strong masculine facial features but will eventually have my nose done for sure because it has been broke several times, once severly crushed in a four wheeler accident, I had to have surgery already, but they would not straighten it because it was considered cosmetic. It is only slightly off center but I will have that corrected when I have it femanized. The tattoos are of different size skulls being held up by a severed hand, with smoke and lots of smaller skulls. That was honestly an attempt to convince myself that I am a man, I purposely went and had the work done so I couldnt hide them when I dressed, keeping me from dressing, which never worked but helped delay my transitioning because of the unsightly look, that would have outed me... I know the pretty things are to make eye candy but I really dont mind, they make me feel good about myself and improve my self esteem and hey if it turns the guys on, all the better. As for the thongs, you can have them, As a guy I have always liked to see a woman in a silky pair of bikini panties and prefer them myself,lol.


Jeanine 4 years ago

are you doing Laser or electrolysis... you are not a man dear but a man lent you his body,for all your life, so be careful here..... I have known both of my spirits all my life so I am not into dissing either one... they both deserve my respect... her because of her patience and love for him... always denying herself... and him for at least protecting me from harm from others... Sara, when you say I need to fix this or that is the OCD that plagues us all... look inside dear and talk to your therapist about real things... how to deal with the rest of your life... and yes I loved bikini panties when I was your age... I'll stay with a full pantie or a french cut leg at this age... have a great night sweet...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Sorry mom, I slept for over eighteen hours yesterday, a short hibernation. You ask about the hair removal, I have extensively checked into my options and had decided to go with YAG laser on my face for now, they have a chemical called meledine for $75, that is applied to the face three times a day for thirty days, before your next laser treatment that helps the laser take out hairs that have no color pigment in the follicle, the bottle is good for 3 to 4 sessions which is 90 to 120 days. She had told me that it may take ten to twelve treatments for a complete process, which is what the Internet had also said. She is fairly reasonable price wise, at $150 for the whole face per session, including between the eyebrows. when I am finished with all the sessions, I had ask and am prepaired to have electrolysis on anything that was not removed by the laser. The YAG has very good reviews and results, and is quick and only slightly painful, lasers have vastly improved in the last few years. My younger brother had some laser work done on his face about 4 years ago with great results, he had everything except his mustache done... I am prepairing to tell my parents soon, I was going to wait except I cant stand not being honest to them, even if it means losing them. I first have to go and haul both my 1967 ford fairlanes from their barn before telling them, just incase it doesnt go well, one was my first car that I have had since before I could drive at 14 years old. If my dad doesnt take it well he will haul them to the scrap yard to hurt me, he has threatened that, a couple of times over smaller issues, besides in a pinch they could be sold to help pay for things that I may need. There is no since crying over spilled milk, but I sure wish that I had done this at 20 something, I would love to be that cute young girl finding her way in life. Do you think that holding my breath and throwing myself on the floor will get me some hormones faster, just kidding, but its a thought. If I dont get them soon, I am going to get them over seas, because this feeling of not being what im suppose to be is causing severe depression and bad thoughts. Im trying to be patient, I really am. We had 4 inches of snow Friday night,on top of some ice and snow Thursday, it is really cold out.


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izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

KATIE~ so glad you made it to this site and got a chance to read it some things from both perspectives. I was about 25 when I had to deal with my dad's sex change, but I knew him to be a transvestite from about 10 yrs old. Like you, I didn't know what to exactly call it or if it was bad or good or what label to put on it. While I knew about him dressing up, he didn't know I lnew all those years so it was my secret and put a wedge between us for so long. I didn't trust him or my mom because I viewed them as lying to me.

The worst part for you is having to deal with telling people close to you...or choosing not to tell them. My dad's family didn't know and I had to keep that a secret too- it's awful. At 16 you're getting to know your own identity and now your dad's identity has changed drastically. Parents are usually our source for stability, but I know how you feel.

It probably wasn't until recently (I'm now 36) that I accepted my dad as a person and totally forgot about the labels. The one thing I'd wished I did differently was to set up boundaries early on. I awkwardly told my dad that I was not comfortable going shopping with him or talking about bras or anything like that. I did not want to be his new "girl" friend. I am still a daughter and need him to be a parental role and a grandparent to my children.

my advice...if you want any, is to get familiar and read as much as possible on transvestites and similar things- it is hard finding good info but get familiar with it so it doesn't seem so weird or foreign. I was emotional when I told people when it first happened, but now it's part of my life, it's my dad, and me not making it bad or weird, makes it more acceptable to the people I choose to tell.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Good advice... Katie also if he wants to talk about it... talk about what you want to know... do not let him control the conversation... keep it in your area of discussion...he is your parent and you owe him a certain respect...but you are also his daughter and he owes you the same respect... in matters of real discussion he can not pull the parent card... of saying... "because I said so"... no longer works here... or I'm the adult here... oh really is that why you are acting like this... because you are mature in your thinking... don't let him move you around on your own opinions...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, Sorry I missed your last comment somehow... you are still very young so don't fret... you are that young woman searching for redemption of soul... and you'll do fine... don't let the OCD push you to say something to your parents before they are ready and before you are settled in... that's like the unfaithful spouse telling their mate what that did out of guilt... take a deep breath and think... I'm so sorry your dad threatens you with such things as taking stuff from you to get his way... part of your indecision has been his hurt that he has brought to you... he's still your dad so you need to love him but stop taking the abuse emotionally... like I said earlier, talk to your mom, she more than likely knows anyway...just has been holding her fingers crossed in hopes of not losing her boy...I'm glad to know there has been improvement in lasers.. electrolysis is the only true way that I knew of and I am please with my face... what did the therapist say about your meds... when will she get them to you... ask her... it's ok.. she knows that why you are there... don't rush... don't rush...hope you and your son are doing well...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Both my parents will be tough, I cant read either one on this subject. It will be a toss up on which one will take it worse, I think my mom will have a break down and my dad wont have anything to do with me for a long time. I have been reading comments on other internet sites that say, stop letting your parents run your life, your an adult and need to act that way. Its not that they are running my life, im just trying to find the best way to let them know, without destroying my family situation. People that say that, either dont have a family to come out to or they dont care if they muck through things and screw up whats good in their life... No she has not prescribed meds yet, she said that we had to finish the time line for her to make a decision, and I think that the time line will be finished or close to finished tomorrow afternoon when we meet again. She told me up front that she assumed that I was there for the hormones and I will ask her again tomorrow, besides I think that because the three month wait was dropped, that she is still going to get the same amount of sessions out of me, before a prescription is given. They say that electrolysis is the surefire way to go but it is extremely costly and time consuming, that is why I am going to take most of it out with a laser then finish if needed with electroylsis.


jeanine 4 years ago

dear Sara... you are right to be steady and careful here with all of your family... it's the one mistake a lot of transsexuals make.... when you see your therapist ask her how she would approach.... also if you can so the desperation that is within you to your mom, she will start to understand first... she knows him best so tell her first... sit with her as many times as you can without telling her... she will finally ask and then again, try not to tell her... just infer that there is something so paramount that you don't know what to do... that it has over taken you... which is true... patience should become your middle name... and I mean this... women have patience men do not... if you are to learn to be successful as the woman you are... you must learn patience... it is not a virtue for women like you have learned as a man... it is a necessity to stay alive... it's your first slap in the face and it hurts more than you can believe... do not be shocked, I am warning you now... most the disrespect that transsexual receive is wrapped in this paper...so open it very carefully... let me put it another way... if you had already had your surgery... would you go into the mall and pull down your panties for everyone to see.... of course not... but that's what most trans do in a way... before we even look anything like we are going to look...we proclaim... I'm a woman I'm a woman... every woman in the world rolls their eyes at this time, because they don't think you have a clue... which is mostly true... except for the suffering that you have endured, you are not a woman yet... you will grow into it... but most of the successful transitions I know... the girls were either younger or very patient... patience my dear... let it be your middle name... you are your child so, be kind and respectful... approach just as you would when you were a new born baby... show her your longing for female companionship... be her baby... be her baby girl in your mind and her instinct will do the rest... she is a woman... all the things you are inside, she gave you, every tender moment you know and want to express, came from her, every sweet thing you do, is a reflection of her love for you... she is the woman that has taught you to be kind to your child... I have found if I can make my life about my family, and put them first, then my transition has, will and always will be a non issue... patience is your life now... you will not receive any of the benefits that you have had or have as the man you are... sad in one way... truly liberating in another... again I would urge you to ask the therapist "how do I feel more, when I am embracing less"... it's the one question you must answer as you cross over this great divide... to be stronger than all the rest and receive absolutely no credit for your endeavor is the most maddening thing for most men... I say men because, it's what separates true two spirits from men who think they are women... as two spirits we have faced that we will always be viewed as second citizen... as less... so if you can face that now... it will help you deal with your mom... once she really knows, and you have to give her time after you have told her, she will be your champion... all women do it... they protect the child from the male... patience dear... patience and you get every thing you want... seriously... remember men are not that bright, just great workers and lovely to look at... you can be doing the hormones for a year or two before he figures it out... so I wouldn't tell him really...he'll began to notice and then finally ask...lol... but probably not until he notices your breast and your ass...lol...men they are all alike dear... they do not think they only see...lol

I'm glad you are doing the laser, you must tell me how it turns out... electrolysis is about ninety an hour here in the south and it does take a while... have a wonderful day sweet heart... I am praying for you... kiss that little boy and thank your wife for letting you see him... I know you don't have to, but her sister would and that's who you become to her eventually, do not lose your way... and the way you do that is remembering all the good time you and she had, remind her each day... thank her constantly, where she can see you are changing... it can be fun if you are not to sensitive... remember women have a compassion trigger... if you are helplessly in love with others, they as women are helplessly into helping you...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Meant To say you are your mothers child


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

At theropy on Wednesday we finished my life history and she told me that we have to do one session of sexual history then she will be able to make a recomendation. She did say that so far everything that I have told her is textbook GID and she feels strong that unless sexual history shows different, that she is looking at recomending hormones If I want to go that direction. I ask if she knew any endo's and she said that they are few and far between and she had one that she had used but he stopped taking transpatients and or would make them wait for six months or longer to see them, the other wont take transgender at all. She says that she has (I cant remember what the type of doctor) another type of doctor that also can prescribe hormones and moniter blood levels that she would refer me to in Indianapolis, he takes her other patients, unless I had someone else im mind. She also said that after sexual history that we could spend more time on what is in the future and working through my transition. I like her alot, although she isnt extremely out going and is a little distant but I feel comfortable with her and she doesnt try to patronize me, which would cause me irritation. At the end of the session I still had a few minutes so we started to touch on the issue of my parents but didnt get very far. I was worried about spending the extra money for theropy, but am now reconsidering that thought, its reassuring to find out that its not something different and that I am not making a mistake transitioning. I am feeling so much better about what I am feeling inside. I am not giving her all the credit, I have to give most of it to you mom and izettl for being there for me, I love you for that. You speak of my ex wife, Last week when she came to pick up our son, I ask her to step out of the car and when she did I gave her a hug and told her that I needed her as a friend, she teared up and said that she was trying, that it will take some time, then I told her that I thought her blouse was cute and she laughed and ask if I wanted to borrow it sometime. I may have to take her up on that because most of her cloths are my size.lol... If you dont hear from me for a short time its because I just had hughes net installed and dumped the verizon 4G card, I bought a wireless router and while installing it, I accidentally broke the screen on my HP laptop. now I am using it but the screen is leaking and will go out sometime soon, I have ordered a screen but am not sure what it will take to swap out. Until it goes out I will ceep checking in. Has the baby came yet?


jeanine 4 years ago

Sara ... sweet heart there are plenty of Endos that will see you in indiana... look on line and no one.... listen to me... no one has the right to say those things to you... "they don't take transgenders is offensive so don't stand for that type of behavior...." even if it's just her words... you are a woman now, so act like it... don't take the BS

The baby is coming soon Izettl wrote today or yesterday on FB....

hey you need to go to a real endo... this is your life not some dream or some experiment.... Sorry about your computer... I love your male side... he is so logical... I could never fix a computer screen... very good and very attractive... the boy side...don't be afraid to show that side to me... but she will not give you hormones if you show it to her... I absolutely love it though... I bet you were a good boy... and I'm sure I would love the boy you created... I was good boy... he protected me so many times with his ability to act tough... quite impressive really... do you remembering any of those days where you consciencely knew you have created Him.... I have vivid memories of my own body being just that... a body that I live in...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, that's wonderful about making friends wife the wife... like I said there was enough love there at one time to produce a child so she will be your best friend again, she is just hurt and rightfully so... she didn't sign on to be with a woman but she needs a friend that can see her side also without getting her feeling hurt, so it gives you a chance to grow also... I am so glad you are taking the time with this relationship...

as far as more money on therapy... I would try and not spend the extra... you will not arrive any sooner and it will show her the reserve you are learning as a you travel into a more comfortable place... practice in between each appointment just what she has given you... you will do find without the extra expense and hey it's her job so she wants you to spend more with her... give yourself time to decode from your male side into your woman side.... they are both there and it's why I am the way I am... I envy those who transition fully sometimes but could never part with my boy side... I love him so... I did not know what transgender meant for so long and didn't ever learn to dislike him... so I grew into one with both parts needed... I never was taught or never thought of the boy side as being wrong... and there was never a thought that he was anything other than a vehicle that I lived inside of... strange how I could have most all the same qualities as other trans but not the one character that drives the operation... it bothered me when I first met others that had this gift of both but not any longer... one of the old explained it...have a great day.... I will let you know when the baby arrives...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara... izettl had a nine pound baby boy... named him Emitt.... yeah... congrats to she and her husband and little family...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Congratulations izettl and family, hope the baby and yourself are healthy and happy. I send all my love.


dada silva 4 years ago

ontem sonhei q minha prima nao podia engravidar porque na verdade ela era um trans.e mim uma grande duvida.será q um trans , pode engravidar uma mulher?será q o organismo dele produz espermatozoide igual do homem?fiquei supresa quando encontrei minha duvidas esclarecidas aqui...obrigada!


jeanine 4 years ago

Dada Silva... I would like to respond but I do not read spanish... help... yikes...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

mom, dada silva said, my cousin could not get pregnant because she is really trans/? cross, (im confused a little on my translation so I appologise ahead of time, love Sara) he also said, and me a great doubt, question- will be a trans. can a pregnant woman. Question- body produce it will be the same mans sperm. I was surprised when I found my doubts clarified here. Thank you. ...... That is what I believe he said. Dade silva,Hola, soy Sara. No estoy seguro exactamente lo que usted esta pidiendo, es su primo de un hombre a mujer trans? si ella es ahora mujer, a mujer no tienen overies para poder quedar embarazada. Si todavia tiene un pene y se encuentra en las hormonas, las hormonas con el tiempo hara que el esperma esteril. Las otras personas en se puede traducir espanol. Atentamente, Sara


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi mom and mommy, that would be you Jeanine and Izettl. Firstly, hows mommy and the bouncing baby boy doing,?, I bet he is such a beautiful sight, babys are so wonderful... I could not tell if dada silva's cousin was a male to female trans and was wondering if she could get pregnant or if she still had a penis and was wondering if she could get a real female pregnant, or I was misunderstanding the whole scenario. I told Dada that if she was MtF post op that she doesnt have overies to get pregnant, and if she still has a penis, and has been on hormones that the sperm will become sterile over time and that she will not be able to get another female pregnant. I also told Dada that there are others on this hub who could help but cannot translate Spanish.... Love you mom and I have disassembled my HP laptop and replaced the screen and while I was inside I doubled my RAM memory along with cleaning all the circuit boards. I have also installed a New linksys wireless router to my highspeed internet, so I should be back in business, internet wise... The theropist has finished her evaluation and has came to the conclusion that I fit the criteria for GID, we ran out of time so she told me that we will discuss hormones, the Doctor and the letter of recomendation on my next visit, along with all my questions and concerns, my next appointment is for this Wednesday. I have been seriously shopping for stylish clothes, to have something to wear. You would be proud, everything I have purchased will let me blend in with the other girls, I have also purchased some gender neutral things so that I can go to my sons school events without drawing too much attention and embarrassing my son. Thats to bad that guys clothes are so boring! I have been observing women, form what they wear to how they walk and talk and have been learning some new things. Women are sometimes complicated and most are drama based, whats with the drama? When I start taking hormones will I be the same way? Hugs and kisses, Sara


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, you may be emotional... evene a drama queen... but you don't have to be... and sometimes the drama is directed at you, so I hope that hasn't happened... actually I love men clothes... a sexy white over sized dress shirt with leggings... cute shoes... a half black tie... with your hair up can be very sexy... big belt with lots of bangles...long ear rings... or large hoops... can be very cute and be all mens... well almost all mens...

you are most impressive with your computer knowledge... and I'm so happy for you about the hormones... let me know what she puts you one... you only want to do enough to arrest the brain... or other wise you become the drama queen... very sweet to stay gender neutral for your little boy... he will appreciate his dad who looks like a mom... and it will make you closer if you respect him and his wishes...and yes the hormones are such a wonderful part of transitioning... but your emotions are running wide... "girl gone wild"...lol...lol...thanks so much for the trans...lation...lol...lol... I am very proud of you dear... be extra senstive to your son and wifes wishes right here... and she will be so thankful... hugs and kisses to you also... hope you have a wonderful day...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

mama, su bienuenida en la traduccion o trans Reglamento- mom, your welcome on the translation or trans lation... I am taking your advice and taking it as slowly as possible with everyone. I still have not told my parents yet, but I will in time. I haven't seen them in almost a month, I am just waiting for the right time or what I feel is the right time, you know how that is, im sure. I hope you and your family are well and I will keep you filled in on things. Have a good evening. P.S. your outfit sounds cute, but I would have to question the mostly guy aspect of that ensemble, lol, sounds pretty girly to me and your right about the large hoops. I love hoop earrings, good choice. Ta Ta for now.


jeanine 4 years ago

I wouldn't tell them... until you were on hormones for a while... if you can go slowly as you have planned... you will see most of your family and friends will understand and go along with you... slowly... as your face begins to change from rebar (a beard) to a mushy jello... it's why the boys look so rugged and better as they age... and why we are goofy as yard dogs for taking the rebar out of the face with electrolysis... lol... your parents as well as others will see you as you really are... which is a lot of both male and female.....I once asked my wife... are you guys going to let me be a woman... she said sure... you still have his body so, be who you want... slowly... and you become the butterfly that flies away into paradise... go to quickly and you may over shoot the runway...we are doing well and I continue to be amazed at my family... so much love so caring... and yes they are all guys clothes so you have to say yes ma'am ... I do realize that you are right... why am I right... because I'm the mommy and I said soooooooooo...lol have a wonderful week dear... touch base... you never call ya mother anymore... what am I... corned beef... be a good girl...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Tomorrow is the first appointment with the therapist that I get to ask all my questions and get some answers from her. I have been doing my homework for so many years that I have prepaired for most everything but I just want to hear from someone who has talked with several hundred trans people first hand. Not that there is just one way of doing things, but just curious if she can shed something new that I haven't heard or thought of myself. She already knows that I am going to go on hormones so she will write the letter to a Doctor. Jeanine, why did you tell me to be sure to go to an endo instead of the doctor that she was talking of, what is the difference? I really do not know. And I cant remember what she said that doctor was, but I ask if he would do blood test and she said yes. I have found a endo in Muncie,Indiana but have not contacted him yet, I think I will in the morning to see if they will take me as a new patient. You are right about being crazy as yard dogs, most men do get better looking with age, so what am I thinking, lol.


jeanine 4 years ago

Your thinking you want one dear...lol... and all of us as trans have so many moral values that we know we must be women in order to have those feelings... very beautiful in it's on way... it's just we are so connected to God, that we don't ever think we could be homosexual... so we change ourselves instead of our minds...think about that for a moment and you'll know it's true... now most trans will argue with that but it's still true...

You need an Endo because he is trained in how these meds affect you and will give a real opinion to what else you might need and want... he has seen many women like yourself and can help... I have major crush on mine and I can write him anytime and he always gets back to me...he's like your smartest friend in school... he knows exactly what makes you feel good and tries to get you there with as little medication as possible, where you don't damage your body...

Try not to ask to many questions... but ask real ones... like, how and the hell do I do this and still keep all the people I love... or... how do I build my relationships back and not hurt the people I love most...make her work... she will be prepared for all the BS questions about being trans... Trans is not the issue, it's just what got you here... now you must live your life...

oh my.. I heard about a woman like myself... someone who is sure she is a woman but happy to live in the body of a man... until yesterday... I thought I was the only one... I do believe in the future, we will all know who we are but will take advantage of living in mens bodies... it has been a challenge but also has had it's benefits...

you are doing the right ting dear... it does get harder as I age... to not transition fully... it will not be easy though, so I will be praying for you...when you go to the endo... get him to give you something for the OCD... adderall will do the trick... and it will help you lose weight... yeah... there is the hardest part... women have had a life time to learn to not eat... lol... I'm sure the Dr she is suggesting is fine for certain trans but you are different... you are mine and I don't want anything but the best for your baby girl...lol... seriously it's your health we are talking about... and in her letter she will say, you know the rist of these meds... do you... they can kill you or cause massive damage, so a good Endo is like the best thing for you...after I found mine... I didn't need to go to therapy as much... so her dr may have a deal with her... I know that is distrust on my part but hey... it's our bodies and brains they are discussing and studying...good luck today and let me know how it went... the hormones will hold you for a while, they are amazing... good luck Sara... hold your head up high... we were and are a great and mighty tribe... two spirits... living in one body...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

The therapist was right, the endos either are not taking anyone or the ones who are do not want to take transgender patients. I will keep looking but for now I am going to take her suggestion and use the Dr. of Osteopathy that she recommended. I have been searching the web and calling around and the available endos are not interested in taking transgender. She said that the endos are much better and that I could look around and when I find a good endo, that I can transfer, she also told me that this female Dr of O has been taking most of her trans clients for the last couple of years, so she has alot of experience. Its either that or wait for who knows how long to start HRT. She is writing a letter of recomendation for HRT and said that we were done till the time for the real life experience, if I choose to do that, if I do then she will need to see me once a month for that whole year. It will take her a few days to write the letter and then I have to schedule an appointment for the Dr of Osteopathy.She also sugested that I make my son my first priority and start prepairing him before he gets to much older, she said that when they are young that they still have that innocence and less peer pressure because children his age havent quite drew gender lines. Then she said to walk the fine line with my parents and let them see me change little by little without telling them for awhile but "dont" tell my son that its a secret from grandma and grandpa because it sends the wrong message to my son. Fortunately for me , he doesnt get to see grandma and grandpa very often, because they live in the next state over, so this should give me some time. I do still feel bad for him though because he doesnt get much chance to get to know his grand parents.


jeanine 4 years ago

Rodney J. Anderson, D.O.

1300 N PENNSYLVANIA ST STE 200

INDIANAPOLIS IN 46202-4462

1317 968 0409

Does primary care and will prescribe and monitor hormones. Highly experienced in GLBT health care and HIV/AIDS care.

Anna says: 'One of the finest doctors I've ever been to see. Dr Anderson works with quite a few transsexuals, and is VERY experienced with us.' will be back later to respond to this note...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I looked Dr Anderson up on line and called his office. He is taking new patients but he is not an endo, he is a doctor of Osteopathy, the same as the doctor that the therapist recomended. If a D.O. can do as good as an endo or nearly as good, I won't mind using one. I am impressed that you know so many people who have connections, especially in or near my location, this is not the first time that you have came up with some suggestions.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara... he was on the web... I guess those Osteo guys are alright... just scary to me, that you live where there is not much help... I would go postal...lol...lol... the part about getting your son ready for it... is just gay BS to me... part of her own agenda... so be careful with that one... I am so glad you are going to get your letter of referral... hormones will change everything for you... take everything you thought or learned and throw it out the window... relax and enjoy the ride... you'll know when you are doing to much because you will cry everyday...sometimes a movie, a baby with his mama, your child, your ex, anything can trigger the flood... when you reach this point, don't change right away... enjoy it for a few months, nothing like a good cry to make a girl feel better... I know you are afraid but don't be... the mistake lies in going to quickly... it's just like when you were dating your ex... you wanted to lie down on the first date but you didn't ask her I'm sure...be encouraging to yourself... I wouldn't tell anyone much less your parents... just go forward, you didn't explain to all of them that you were in the closet for years did you... well don't explain now that you are out... just enjoy it... if they ask... are you wearing make up... go lite please... just say yes I believe I am...lol...did you get your ears pieced and you say... oh my ... yes it's seems I did... was that you buying panties in VS the other day... you say... I believe it was...lol... just live... you took this step so live... why do you owe an explaination to any of them...they love you as much as they can... don't be afraid anymore... try not to embarass them but try and live your life... you have missed enouh of it already... just say that... I have something that makes me feel this way... then ask them what they have that you don't know about... almost everyone has something... it;s just trans is so drastic for others that is seems we have some deep dark secret... it's only deep and dark because we didn't bring it into the light... and that's were we get in trouble when we come out... we run out of the closet and yell wah la... and they all saw us go in as a guy and come out as a guy...with different clothes on... be different inside and it will show on the outside... have a wonderful day dear... so proud of you... Mom...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I love the way you put things into prospective. I had seen where you found Anna's review on Tvox , I looked up D.O. Anderson and saw where he lost his liscense to practice in 2010 for a short time but I Emailed my therapist and ask her about him and she said that he has been helping trans for a long time but she thought that he lost the privelage of prescribe either estrogen or testosterone for misuse of some sort but she wasnt completely sure and suggested that I contact his office and find out before I decide who to go with, she said that she would write the letter to whom ever I choose. She did say that she believed that he didnt need a letter of referal for HRT from his patients. he does it without it. I will do some more research. The D.O. that the therapist has recommended is Dr Arno D.O., a lady doctor. Have a good day also .


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara... life is about perspective... so keep a good one... slowly dear... I know you can do it...I would use the Dr... your therapist suggested... I like women as Doctors... and as you change, she will be able to help you in your transition... let me know how you are doing... hope you have a wonderful Sunday...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

izettl, I have read your opening article again along with some of the original comments from when your hub was introduced. I have back tracked and have been doing some reflecting about myself. One thing that I keep asking myself is, why does society have such an issue, Why did you really not feel ok with your father dressing in frilly cloths, when your family played it off as normal? The reason I ask is that I am trying to understand why it is acceptable for women to wear mens type cloths for all these years and that is accepted but when men wear womens type cloths it becomes an issue. I am trying to grasp this concept so I can understand what my son will be feeling when I start dressing as a woman around him. This question is in reference to when you was around 10 and looked back realizing that you was not ok with his dressing. What was not ok with it in your eyes? Was it more that you heard your mom talking of it to her friends, probably in a not so good way? Help me see through your eyes. I know that you were hurt when he left and had surgery, but what was so wrong with his dressing when you were preteen/young teen. Jeanine you or anyone else can also comment, but I hope Izettl can help on this question when she gets some time.


jeanine 4 years ago

Interesting comment Sara... I'll wait on Izettl... I have an opinion but would love to hear her's first...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I understand that it at this time is still socially taboo, but I want to know what a preteen/ teen was thinking and not an adult child. A view point from the presumably innocent mind. I have stepped away from the issue of my son for some time to think about taking care of myself and am needing now to get back to this issue before I have to cross that bridge. I know that children form gender lines but why is it so devestating for others when the father dresses as a woman. I can not find much information on the reverse, when a woman decides to start dressing as a man. I think this is due to the fact that women are more accepted when they dress as guys. I keep hearing that the family greives for the loss of their son when he chooses to live life as a woman. Sorry if this sounds like rambling, I am in a hurry to get my son on the bus. Please help me understand.


jeanine 4 years ago

Most of the disappointment from the family and friends lies in women are considered second class citizens compared to men.. it's so much easier in life if you are a man is the stitch that most people tout as their reason... so you, me or any one choosing to be less in their eyes, is thought less of immediately... it comes from the kids parents but it does trickle down to the kids... it's the binary system and why I have been talking so much about "two spirited" people... they were and are the only transsexuals that have ever been held in high esteem... again I will wait for the final cut from Izettl... but I am correct in what I have shared so far...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

What I am hearing, is that everyone is telling me to take it slow and it will give everyone time to adjust but then I am hearing that everyone is going to grieve and take it hard. Now with that said, I am going to do with myself what needs to be done and no one matters except my son. To explain this better, I would hope that everyone will handle this well but if they dont, I am not going to try and live my life for them im going to live it for myself and in the process I am going to try and make the best of it for my son. Izettl, you had a long time to get use to your dad dressing, kind of a slow long process and then again, you were not ok with it, and felt that as a preteen, it was not right. I know that each person handles things differently but am I going to make this transition right by my son? Or is it a lost cause? I feel terrible that I am the way I am but I want to make his life as good as I can.


Jeanine 4 years ago

You'll do fine Sara... go ahead with what you need to do... you are right in that you must live your life... it is yours and no one elses... I wish you well and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers... if I have been confusing you... my most sincere apologies... life is never easy... but is always worth while...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

No mom you have not been confusing me. I am hearing the same things from everyone including my therapist who is telling me the same thing as yourself ,but still have not heard from the childs point of view,no one can seem to answer this, and izettl is the only one that I can think of who may be able to give some insight to this question, because she was young when her father was doing this. What I need though is the hurt as an adult child to be put aside and the true feelings as a preteen to shine through. The information that I am getting, is from adult children that are mostly hurt from the fact that there was a bad experience during their fathers transition or they were swayed toward a negative feeling from their other parent or family and friends, and did not use their own open minded judgement in their decision process. That is why I ask Izettl for her thought, because she may know. She has been busy and has not had much input and I do not know where else to turn and my therapist has no definitive explanation on this subject except to take it slowly, etc . Is there a way to make this right in my sons eyes, just short of not doing this at all, because I dont know how much longer I could go on without being true to myself.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara, Just hold on ... I know Izettl is moving around mow, so she will be on here soon and you are right she is the best to answer... she has a pretty good relationship with her dad but she is no push over either so you will get a real opinion... I know it's driving you crazy, so go get something for the OCD from your PC Dr.... it will help a great deal hon and you can at least catch your breath in between thoughts... face it... everyone who knows you would be better off if you didn't do it... everyone except you... and that's why Trans are considered selfish... and that's a fact... the reality is, you must do what makes you happy... the reason we are all saying go slowly is because you want this relationship with your son to grow and your son will always be part of your ex so you must love her still if you are to be successful... very confusing I know... but no more so than what you have lived with for all of your life...think about it... if you continue to embrace the binary system, you will deny him, your little boy a father... you are not like the rest of the people you know... you are two spirits living in one body... changing from one to the other will not solve your challenge.. if there was no child, then perhaps you could be happy... but that's not an option... you have a beautiful little boy and he deserves the best... I know that's not what the medical community s telling you... but they don't have it... so they are clueless...speak to other transsexuals about how their family is taking it... not one is taking it well... there are those who accept it like izettl... but it is more tolerance than anything else...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... I just read what I wrote you and I know how harsh that sounds... the reality is the medical community is devastating our entire tribe... they have taken each one of us they can find and tried to make us a woman or a man... we are not that... we are two spirits living in one... I wished I could show you what is there in the spirit... we are part of the answer to heal mans wounds and create woman back to before she was shunned for what was taught in the Christians Bible... in which I believe in their God... He is God... and we as two spirits know him... ask yourself... do you know things about the God of the spirit... yes... is my answer...


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Izzetl, your article hits very close. You see, like your father, I'm a transexual parent who destroyed a home to become my "true self." Everyday I'm haunted by the tearful face of my beautiful 7 year-old son when he found out that I and his mother were divorcing. He needed me--they needed me, and I ran. Back when my plans of becoming a "woman" brought such excitement, such bliss, I did not feel the painful dispair of the people that loved me so much, and I never anticipated the countless days and nights that I would spend crying over loosing them. Yes, I struggled very deeply for most of my life with transexuality and homosexuality, and yes, my male-to-female transformation has, at times, been wonderful, almost fairytale-like. It, however, pales in comparison to the precious family that I left behind, the tender and fragile hearts that I recklessly abandoned.


jeanine 4 years ago

Celeste, how beautifully expressed... the sorry we feel from the pain of our most loved ones... I to am trans but chose another road... and it is painful yet not to the ones I love the most... I struggle each day and wished I had been true to myself before my family arrived... yet when I began to explore whether or not this could work for me and my family, I found it could for me but not for them... I also have realized over these years that if I was truly the woman I believed I was to be, I could never hurt my children... the lioness within so to speak... would kill any man including the one I live in if he tried to hurt them... I have since embraced "two spirited" people... mainly because they are the only trans in history that were elevated to greatness instead of what we see today... "the Jerry Springer show"... my prayers and my good thoughts are sent your way... I do appreciate your honesty... I believe we are a holy tribe and that we have gotten bad info from the medical community... they have found each of us guilty and sentenced us to the binary system... which I believe is a joke... but not very funny... we were meant to be this way, not man, not woman but both... you are certainly are a beauty and I wish you the best... you are from my tribe and I from yours... because of your honesty, our great God will return to you what was yours... I do not look at any of our tribe that transitions as wrong but look at you as pioneers to the great day when we are restored into our rightful places of honor... because you have spent your life your life will be returned I believe... also without those like you who transitioned fully... there would never be the day when our tribe stands and says we are two living as one... we are not of the binary system like they are... and although if one doesn't have this gift, we are shunned and thought less of... surely our God will save us from this death that has been perpetrated upon us as human beings...please pray for me as I pray for you... that one day all the world will see... He sent us to help them love one another...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hello everyone. Celeste, my wife and I devorced some time before I decided to start transitioning, so my son had to deal with that in itself. Now he is going to have to go through my transition, and he has made it clear that he doesn't want me to look like a woman. Aside from the divorce, how is your son handeling your transition? I am thinking of letting my son get involved with my transition, if he wants to be involved, so that he can see what is going to happen and so he does not feel left out, give him some input. Simple things like helping me pick out clothes that he thinks looks nice and other things like that. I hope things are getting better for you and your son.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara hope you are doing well... did she put you on HRT... yet...


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Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi mom , I go to Dr Arno tomorrow afternoon for my fix, lol. I am excited and uncertain. I know what I have been feeling but its just the part of taking my first step. Its the change , that unknown future, that is a little scary. Im sure I will be Ok and like Celeste said, it seems kinda fairytail like. I am not sure what she will do for me tomorrow, Im sure she will do blood test but im not sure if she will prescribe meds until she finds out what the results are. We will see.


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Jeanine, your words to me are so gracious, so kind. Thank you. Many of us follow the proverb that Sylvia Ashton penned: "You must be true to yourself..." However, while this is a wonderful rule by which to live, I now feel that the higher road is to be "true to your family," and you, my dear, have made the better choice. We transpeople are faced with the increadibly tough dilemma of either transitioning or not, both of which involve suffering. The real truth of the matter is that there is no easy alternative, and both have their inherent pain, sacrifices, and rewards. I do feel, however, that the lonelier path is the one that leads away from the people that dearly love you, especially a spouse and children. The pain of losing a child, whether through death, divorce--or transition, hurts far beyond anything else one might experience. Regarding my own transition, if someone were to ask, "was it worth it?," I would have to say a resounding "no." At least, transition was not worth sacrificing my family. A rough analogy is when one becomes a millionaire at the cost of hurting others. The benefits of wealth are wonderful, and can facilitate great happiness and security. However, the sordid nature of the endeavor casts a dark shadow, even on the best of days. While my transition is a dream come true for me, it was a horrid nightmare to the people that I held most dear, and my experiences as a woman will always have that tragic aura, no matter how feminine or beautiful I become. Having said that, I do feel that God has forgiven me, but I will always have to face the reality of living without those two very special people. I pray that my sweet memories of when I was father and husband never fade, because while they are deeply painful and usually lead to tears, I would rather cry than forget.


jeanine 4 years ago

Oh Celeste... I wept as I read your note... I spoke with Izettl yesterday and told her of your honesty and how it has affected me... she has just had a baby 9 lbs and he is already at 11 lbs so he is a hoss...lol... she will be on and writing to you and Sara very soon... until then let me say how amazing it is to hear someone from our tribe actually being honest in their quest for peace... it is priceless to me and izettl... we are working on a book now... also you are the first gender variant person besides myself to say this to me and so it is very important ... I am so sorry you must bare the pain, but so glad you would share with us here... you are right of course in that there is suffering on both sides... there is not a day that goes by that I don't wished I had traded in this body of mine... but then I see my children and realize for me at least I made the right decision...although they all know it is a task for me and try and understand... so refreshing and encouraging to hear it from you dear... you have made my day... I have weeping openly since I read your note... I can feel the pain that you have suffered through the way you have expressed yourself here in this moment... I'm sure God has forgiven you also as you said... and I do agree that I had rather cry also than to forget...God will restore, so I will continue to pray for you and your family... I think Sylvia Ashton is right when she said "be true to oneself"... self is what is in question... as men or as we were taught to be men, we were taught that "self" meant one thing and as women we realize "self" also includes our family... I am sure the medical community has sold us all a bill of goods... it seems they want all of us to accept the binary system and are telling our sisters and brothers that is the way to true happiness... which for me it was not... and I believe there are many others our here that have begun to look at this seriously... I believe if we are treated for OCD first then we have a chance at stopping a moment and catching our breath... once that happens we may begin to see there is nothing wrong with us as the medical community continues to imply... again thanks so much for your note... please write more...


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Jeanine, thank you so much for sharing about yourself and your decision regarding transition. I also appreciate your warm sensitivity towards me and my family. That means so much! I would love to email you privately. If you like, just send me a message from this venue, and I'll correspond. Take care!!


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Celeste left my info with you on FB...thanks so much for the encouragement...


confusedfamilygirl 4 years ago

I have two children age 4 & 11, and I have just had an anynmous letter telling me that my husband of 17 yrs is in the process of gender reassignment.

1) wtf

2) how could he do this to us

3) how will they cope, now and in the future

4) what can I do to help them?

any comments gratefully recieved.

xxx


jeanine 4 years ago

I'm so sorry some one has hurt you with a letter... do you know if it's true and if not... try and believe the best about him...you must talk to him and let him know you know... give him a chance to speak... and try and understand that he is as freaked out as you are... he doesn't know what is driving him to do this...try and get him to a doctor and get some meds for OCD if you can... they won't cure these feels but will let him breath long enough to listen to you as you explain out painful this will be to your children and yourself... it's the OCD that drives, most of us...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

@confusedfamilygirl Every situation is different but if it is true, It is kind of like having an illness and needing to get the problem fixed. I really dont think that anyone intends to be transgender it is just the way a person is and they dont mean to hurt the ones they love. Unfortunately most of the time a person doesn't make the realization that he or she is transgender until they have created a family and life for themselves which causes others to be hurt with the transition. Now you need to find out if your husband is actually planning on transitioning, before you do that though you need to decide weather you can support his decision, which may mean helping him transition and possibly stay by his side through thick and thin, for better or for worse. I say this because if this is something that he feels compelled to do, talking him out of doing it will only prolong the problem because he most likely will still do it in the future unless he is not actually transgender and is only wanting to dress in female cloths, then you will have to decide weather to support him on this or not. The same goes for him having gender reassignment, you will need to choose to be supportive and make the best of what it is or your marriage will eventually be over. Some wives choose to stay by their partners side, Jeanine's wife has stayed together, she can explain it more when she responds. It really is a difficult situation to be in but can be made easier if you are an open minded person and accepting of differences in people, and being able to accept your husband as a female, it is a decision that only you will be able to make. Im sorry if what I say sounds harsh, I am just being honest and I hope what I have said helps you with things, it is alot to think about. Others on here will also respond from time to time, Jeanine has been a godsend to me with my situation and gives motherly advice, and izettl has great things to say but is out with a new baby, she may also respond and I will help if I can. Best wishes


Randipilot 4 years ago

Hi all, I know that I haven't posted here in many months, but did post a while back and have continued to follow this hub over the months as I find it very informative, and I think that Izettl and Jeanine are extremely insightful. That said, let me throw in my two cents to some of the most recent posts. By the way of reference, I am a Two Spirited, "transsexual" as the world call it, late forties, married with children, retired military officer, now college professor. I have chosen not make any permanent physical changes at this point, but certainly have contemplated them. My wife, children, siblings, nephew and nieces and parents know. To confusedfamilygirl, let me start by saying, my prayers are with you, If it is true about your husband, this is not what you bargained for I am sure, but by the same token, I would offer you that it doesn't have to be the end of the world, or your marriage. Read carefully this entire hub, if you haven't already, and understand that there are ways to "manage or deal" with this short of a total change. For some they feel they must complete the change for some of us we figure out how to manage without or with just some. One thing for sure, from my experience in life, I cannot believe that anyone would "chose" to be transgender. I have known that I was different, that I wanted to be a girl/woman since I was between 8-10, maybe earlier, but can't be sure. I was a boys, boy and to this day some would say I still am. I grew up in a conservative Christian home, with great parents and siblings. My parents taught at a conservative Christian University in the south, in a small town, the university being it's center. Further I was NEVER abused in any way, and I still am a Christian, of the same denomination, although far less "conservative". All that said, I just am a "transsexual". I prayed many prayers as a child hoping that one morning I would wake up a girl, but as you start to understand biology you know that's just not going to happen. So then you pray that God will change you, that he will "fix" you. You go on to do everything you can to make it go away, so you marry, someone you truly love, have children, but at some point the hiding in the "closet" from those closest to you, and love the most, is just to much and something has to give. When that happens, the potential hurt is enormous, and the life you have created, which you value, may and unfortunately often comes crashing down. The one thing relating to my Christianity and being "transsexual" that I have come to understand, is that God created us all, but we each are a product of the biological system that he created, and biology being what it is, there are those who, in a sinful world, (I'm assuming you believe in God and sin, etc.) are different, either due to genetics or development in utero. God didn't make a mistake in making me who I am, I am just who I am and God loves me and cares for me and I believe will save me as I am. As Sara said, you need to do some soul searching, and some talking. It may hurt deeply, but if you truly love each other, and you find it within yourself to try, you can find a road, granted a road less travelled, but fulfilling. My wife found out I was "trans" after 22 years of marriage, she new I crossed dressed well before that. My children found out when they were mid to late teens. We are still together and still a happy family. I talk with and visit my family and parents as often as time and money allow, and those relationships are healthy as well. There is hope!

To Celeste, My heart goes out to you, May God's love and grace be with you. Don't give up on your kids, someday they may well come back around, I will hope and pray for you.

Best wishes to all.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Confusedfamilygirl... the comment that Sara made about everyone not knowing is only in secondary transsexualism... primary transsexuals know from a very early age... there are many transsexuals that do not choose to transition fully...the community of tTS are the only ones who look down upon this group... the full transition I believe as we know it today will become a thing of the past... and the trans of today will be held up as pioneers... I pray for the day that my tribe does not to the bidding of the binary worshipers in our world... we are not man nor woman.. we are both living as one... to me to transition to one or the other would make me less of the person I am... and also make me a pawn in the medical communities hands... they continue to change each one of us they find into a woman or a man... there was and is another choice... and it us... we are the third gender and were great in centuries passed... but for some reason we scared the Christians and they began a campaign against us... the doctors want us to be man and woman... not two spirits.... strange but true...

Hey Randi... hope you are well... thanks for chiming in... and thanks for the encouragement...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine you keep speeking of OCD, you make it sound like all transsexuals have OCD. If that is so are you suggesting that trans people get meds for OCD before they decide to take the step of getting meds for HRT. And might this be the way to keep ones family together, because the OCD meds might keep one from transitioning. Thank you Celest for responding to the question that I ask. I tried responding to your answer but it would not send. How did you send a personal email through the hub.


jeanine 4 years ago

I am saying that almost every trans I have met has had or has OCD... so yes I am saying I believe it does have something to do with it... if you don't fall in the catagory then that's fine... I see it a lot... you have absolutely nothing you obsess about... how bout transition... I do not one of us who professes to have this... that does not obsess about being trans...I do not think OCD meds will stop transition... what I do believe is the meds will stop the obsessing and let the transitioner breath a moment and see what kind of pain he is inflicting upon his father... here I'll ask you... will you put your family first and wait on your transition... no is the answer more than likely...think about it


Jeanine 4 years ago

I meant to say... his Family... maybe a fruedian slip...lol


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara ... what I'm saying....is no transsexual wants or means to hurt their family... it's the OCD pushing them to their limits... is all I'm saying dear... people are hurting and I see Tgirls so surprised that their families don't understand... and then the family doesn't understand either... so if we decide to stop the OCD then there may be a chance that their is some common ground... as long as we are obsessing there is no common ground... what I hear from most trans about their family is they will just have to accept it... I see massive pain happening and that's what has to stop...I know you understand what I'm saying... as painful as it is for all of us... we still need to take the responsibility of hurting our families...I know that hurts but that's why I'm saying take the OCD meds first... then we can all talk about the transition...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I think that everyone in some way or form has OCD, but I also dont believe that taking meds for it will help the family understand or find common ground. They may help me think things through more rationally but each situation is different. Celest's wife-ex sounds like the extreme, what everyone fears, your wife Jeanine is the blessing and accepts and or allows what is, and that would be ideal but that is rare. My wife when we were married was against me dressing up, hell she was against herself dressing as a woman for her husband, she said that it made her feel dirty, victoria secret dirty, who would have guessed. She now is pissed off that the man she married is no longer and my sons father is gone, She is the one who needs meds. I also am not one of those trans who cant understand why no one understands, I can see why they dont as long as they use some common sense. My wife is now saying after all the years of bitching about how manly I was, that her son now will not have that manly figure in his life and she will have to be both mother and father, What kind of logical thought is that, that is why trans people have such a hard time because of the ignorance of man kind. I am still going to do the things I do the only difference is that I will look like a woman, my son will still have me for a parent. It wouldn't be so complicated if people would think with their brain instead of emotions.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I do understand that what I am doing is causing this pain for everyone, I just wish they would use some knowledge or get some knowledge before jumping in with emotions that amount to inacurate decisions and actions which cause greater hardship... I was not being insincere when I ask if you thought OCD meds would stop one from transitioning. I know what I want but sometimes wonder if it was meant to be, if it is worth hurting my son, I have lost 42 years already, what would make the difference if I lost the rest. I am glad that the world is starting to open their eyes to transsexualism and letting the young transition, It reduces the hurt. Just not mine!


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Sara, to contact you via email, I just went to your home page and hit "contact sara-nthemiddle." You can also reach me through facebook.

Take care!


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara... I do understand the pain you are going through... it was not an easy thing for my wife to accept and you are right she is wonderful...but I've done my part also... I stayed with my family and I believe that was what I was supposed to do... your complaint about society not thinking and accepting is to typical for me... no one owes us respect... we all have to earn it...my angst is my own belief that with each transition our tribe falls deeper into the abyss... longing to be like them... the binary system has taken us and turned us upside down... from standing with Kings and ruling the world to being ridiculed on the "Jerry Springer show"...maybe one day we'll wake up and see the power that God has given us all as two spirits...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

What really drives us to have to be the other gender? Why are we not happy being who we were born and what makes it right in our mind, when we finally transition. Its really a weird thing.


jeanine 4 years ago

agreed... it shouldn't matter so why does it... that's why I believe the OCD has something to do with it... we are not very together at times so what causes that...feeling of no comfort within my self...


Happychild 4 years ago

Some transsexuals expect understanding, acceptance and respect. These have to be earned. Trashing society, spouses and living life in "victim mode" won't help. We as adults can handle anything that life throws at us but children.... this is a different story. There is always a price to pay when a trans decides to fully transition but apparently many won't realize it until it is too late. No child in this world should go thru a parent sex change. This is a great hub for children of a transsexual parent, their emotions, feelings, and struggles. These are very important topics that many trans and their counselors overlook. Izettl, I can't wait to read the book!


Jeanine 4 years ago

Happy Child.... I appreciate your comments... and it is so true that we have to be more aware about our children... loving them is the only way... that being said... I take issue with... we have to earn it remark...earn what... the right to be happy and not be in so much pain...if you are trans... you are clueless to the pain and suffering that we as individuals go through every day...I truly respect you for being a human being... I don't you but you don't have to earn my respect... it's a right in the country that every human being be treated equally... all transsexuals should be accepted and respected... it is a medical anomaly really and well documented that it is a disorder that needs to be addressed in the transsexuals life... if you don't understand Trans... then that is another story and you are welcome to stay uneducated on the facts... but I don't have to earn your respect to be living in the body I feel that I should be in... as much as I believe one should stay in the body one is given... that gives me no right nor you the right to say I must earn it... that's BS ... what if you had a third leg... no pun intended... but to make my point... "when I was a child, I went to the fair and they had the freak show there and there was a man who had a third leg,so sad in so many ways"... now for some reason he didn't operate to remove it, it was very small but hung out of his chest..I thought why didn't he have that removed where he could have lived a normal life, he was one of the saddest looking men I ever saw" I hold you can relate, because that's how most of us feel... we have another imagine in our minds... each morning when we wake up... and we feel very much like the freak in the Fair.... we are searching for happiness just like the rest of you on this earth.. granted we have a different take on life... but no different than say a woman who wants to change her hair color... or the child who is disfigured at birth and needs an operation to correct a birth defect... try not to gang up on us... you are living in a binary system that demands that we live in it also... when a lot of us...most of us... would live as two spirits and be fine if there were not so much prejudice from those living without sin...lol... so to speak... we all are two spirits... yet your kind has no clue what I am even talking about... it's the demands of society that demand that we live as a woman or a man...not us...that being said... by the time we reach adulthood... if we have not found peace... we are still troubled by it each day... finally driving us to separate from all that has been our lives...the desire is so great and prejudice from you and those around that agreed with your earn it remark... that we often consider suicide... not because we are suicidal but mostly because we are strangers in a very strange land... not trying to beat you up.... but I need you to have another look at who we are... would you correct your body if you had the chance to make it right in your own mind... most transsexuals are offended by the bodies we are born in and finally come to the transition after fighting long and hard for all of their lives... some are lucky and at an early age find acceptance from parents and those around them... and so they go through the change before children... but it's because they were not taught they had to earn the right to be respected ... it's because they found someone who loved them for being them... I hope you have found love and acceptance... and pray no one ever says you must earn there respect to be you... now I do understand we all must earn each others respect in our work... but work and being are two different things... thanks so much for your comments... always a joy to hear from someones mind... and heart... hope you have a great day... and remember... I respect you for being alive and living this long... not because you must earn it... let that go if you can... if you can't... I know a few therapist... lol...lol


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

touche, jeanine!


Happychild 4 years ago

"My Father, The Transsexual". This hub is about us, the children of a transsexual parent. Thanks to Izettl, the creator of the hub, for opening this window into our unknown world. I am an adult now and thanks to a good therapist and the support of my family I was able to deal with my father's transition during my teen years. I am sure that everyone posting their thoughts here can't wait to read the book.


Jeanine 4 years ago

You may be right but I don't think it's just a bout that and that alone... where did you get that info... that she is writing a book called "My Father the Transsexual"...


jeanine 4 years ago

Happy child... no need to be ugly... we all are here to help one another... I am so glad you survived really... I'm so sorry you had to go through it...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine, Happychild may have picked the book idea up, from your conversation with Celeste three weeks ago. Sorry I havent been in touch, I miss our conversations and had sent you and Celeste a personal message, I did not want to keep filling up Izettls hub with my day to day humdrum and have been researching some of my questions other places, I check back here every few days hoping that Izettl would get around to answering the past questions that I had ask her. I bet the baby is keeping her busy.Did you get my personal message? I hope that I sent it to the right Jeanine,lol.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara, I didn't get your message and Izeetl doesn't care if we fill it up so post away... I hope you are well... The baby has been colicy... so pray for her... you can only reach me here in that I am not registered, I did talk with Celeste and she mentioned she did here from you... hope all is well and you are growing.. hope your son is doing well also... I to miss our conversations... and you are probably right about Happy Child hearing that from me... "the book we are working on does cover a lot but it not just for children of transsexuals... but about what happens to all of us... Children and parents alike...also about options and your questions and everyone else including happychild are very important to us as we write about this wonderful gift or curse...which ever way you look at it.... hope you are having a good day...


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Sara.. Talked to Izettl and she asked if you could contact her directly through the email that is listed in this hub...


Jeanine 4 years ago

happy child.... do the same....izettl... ask me to relay this message


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Wow! I actually got onto my site here. I've had computer problems and haven't been able to get on here. First, HAPPY CHILD. This is a hub for "us" because it was written from a place of hurt. At one time I was hurt and I suppose I still am about some things concerning my dad's sex change. I am plannign a book. I think that was stated back in the first several comments on this hub. I was planning it with my mom to get the two different family point of views. But now I may do it differently. I don't believe we "owe" our transsexual parent understanding and accpetance- that probably comes with time as it has for me. I felt as first like I had to accept my new dad. The focus is on the trans and not the family and people it effects- that's why I wrote this hub. The family wants the old life back and the trans wants a totally new life.

SARA~ Geesh, as soon as I got on here the baby started crying but please contact me on email and I'll get back on here soon.


andrea 4 years ago

I am glad that I found this discussion. I have decided to transition before I have my children for precisely the reasons outlined here, as I feel it would be extremely unsettling to any children I am able to parent with my partner to do otherwise. Daily, I am tormented by guilt and fears for my future kids as I will never be able to fulfil the traditinal role of a father but I reason it is far better to be "myself" from the beginning of their childhoods. I plan to tell any children I have about my need to transition in their early years, and to be as gender neutral and as supportive as I can throughout their lives. This is my wish, a pipe-dream, may be, but these are my intentions. One can only resist gender dysphoria for so long - it is an all consuming fear and disgust with what you are, and what you will become as you age - no amount of therapy will stop you looking in the mirror and being terrified of becoming bald, hating the size of your hands/feet, the deepness of your voice or your position in society - consider the clinical ineffectiveness of therapy to cure Body Dysmorphia, as a related example. I know I will disadvantage any children I have - they will be far more likely to be bulleyed and to be socially excluded - but I will move heaven and earth to ensure their happiness and the "roundness" of their upbringings. One and a half Mums is surely better than having a continuously depressed Father who has to live on anti depressants and, although I would never consider this, regularly cross dresses in front of their children, as in this example. With best wishes.


ediann profile image

ediann 4 years ago

Dear Izetti,

I see you have a great deal of pain, confusion, anger and hurt and it is very understandable. Your parent (dad) who is transgendered probably was looking for acceptance and by dressing in front of his family was the only way she could find it. Society does not understand and to this day transgendered run the risk of losing everything they hold important to them. Believe me, this is not a choice. I can attest to that because I have gender dysphoria and I knew I was different since I was 5 years old. I have a wife and son who I love. My son is autistic and I am his biggest supporter. I am also transgendered and have been so all my life. It has been an incredibly painful way of life for me because I had to live in secret my whole life repressing it and the only time I felt at peace was when I could dress. I felt guilt and suffered all throughout my life. Do you know the pain of feeling you're a girl in your mind and heart but your life is all wrong because you're physical does not match your mental. Many times I wanted to die but I just tried to go on and try my best. I have repressed my feelings, I have purged my clothes. I have never rid myself of these feelings and now that I have hit my 50's my transgender feelings have hit hard and the flood gates have opened. I am now doing all I can to determine what I have to do and I am afraid that I will also have to travel that very same road. It is not easy. I have to help myself before I can help my son and family. I also wonder what would be worse, taking my life because I can not live with the pain and isolation anymore or hopefully transitioning to bring my mind and body in sync. I am not perfect and I know this is a difficult situation but I realize I am human and I have struggled with this my whole life. I truly believe I was born this way. This is not a choice!


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Andrea, imo, if you have decided to transition, you shouldn't even be thinking of having children. Transtion of a parent is extremely traumatic for children. Pick one or the other.

Ediann, I beg you, please do not put yourself and your family through a gender change! Spare them and yourself the grief. Trust me, transition is not worth losing your family--and you will definately lose them. Besides, older transtioners rarely pass, and you don't want to live life like that. Try to be realistic.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Andrea, if transitioning is something that you have to do then good for you for doing it before you have children. I wouldn't let it stop you from having children in the future though, they will have a harder time with peers while growing up but so do children of gay parents or parents with deformities, or the hardships on children from parents divorcing, etc, etc. I have a friend that lives in Chicago that is proudly gay and has a daughter by a surrogate mother, they are very happy. I wish that I had transitioned when I was young and before children, it would have been easier but now, it is what it is. Ediann, I am 43 and it has been a tough decision to start to transition because of all the regular reasons but my child has been my first thought and my age and looks are probably the second thought. This is not something to take lightly and if you decide to go through with it, try and make sure it is what you really want to do and try and think of all the consequences that will effect your life, from family to everyday living. Its not an easy decision. I wish you the best of luck... Celeste, I wish things wouldn't have been so hard for you with your situation and pray that emotionally you will find happiness... Jeanine, high mom hope things with you and your family are well. I have sort of started HRT a month ago, the doctor has prescribed spirolactone and finasteride, she does not feel that Progesterone is necessary even though I am not going to take no for an answer and she is doing a background on blood test and a new blood test before she prescribe estrodol. The hold up this time is that my neurooptimologist has not sent her the information that she needs, and I have just found that out and will be calling him this morning. I am statring to feel that she is being a gatekeeper and if I dont get the other meds soon, I will be going to another doctor. Is being transgender considered a mental illness?


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Jeanine, I meant to say Hi mom not High mom, lol. What are your thoughts on the use of Progesterone for HRT, good bad is it necessary or not , does it do anything.I am looking at Natural progesterone, it is said that it has far less negative side effects verses synthetic progestine's . I just had a young friend die of lupus and I looked up the word and had seen where some specialist are starting to think that it is caused possibly by high estrogen levels with low progesterone levels in particular individuals. Not that it will cause everyone with those conditions to get lupus because there are other factors, like genetics. But while looking that info up, I found out that women are more likely ,9 women to 1 man to get lupus with black women higher then white women/ other race , but what was interesting was that transgender ladies M2F had a higher lupus rate then men and they are thinking that testosterone sheilds men and with M2F ladies the Testosterone is little to none and the estrogen puts them in the higher catagory with women. Just something else to consider when looking into progesterone. I have also seen where they think that progesterone helps give a more natural shape to developing breast tissue along with some effects on other feminizing effects. Celeste, I like hearing from you but I did want to add that even though you had and are having what sounds like a not so ideal situation within your transition, that not everyone will end up with the same outcome as you have encountered. Now on the flip side, Im sure that it would be easier if there were no children in the equation but then again, having a child is wonderful so I would have to say that not ever being transgender at all, would be the easiest solution. I guess that we will have to make the best of what we are, until some scientist discovers a pill that eliminates the transgender gene or mental illness from our brains. I personally dont think that wanting to be a woman is a mental illness, just a blessing with difficulties.


andrea 4 years ago

Hi everyone. Celeste - I can see from your account that you have suffered greatly after and before your transition, so I appreciate a little of where you are coming from when you gave me your advice. I really am not sure what the future holds for me...living as a 'man' will involve a life on antidepressants and therapy as in the UK, I will no longer be prescribed HRT unless I continue to live as a female - having already experienced the inner peace and relative relief from gender dysphoria HRT had brought me, I am very uncertain about my ability to come off HRT now. Sara - thanks for your encouragement - if I had a choice, I would never consider transition, but gender dysphoria isn't a choice, is it?


jeanine 4 years ago

There is a choice and it is our history and your destiny... "two spirited" are women who know they are in the body of a man and choose to use that body for the good of the entire tribe... that would be the tribe of man and woman...lol... so there is a choice just not one you are willing to consider... in my own spirit I liken that to time in history where doctors didn't know infection was caused by dirty instruments... what we are doing by transitioning does give us relief... but it also puts us in the pigeon hole that they want us to fill... I am not nor will I ever do what they want... in going the binary system... we are two living as one... and it's what makes us unique... read our history before you believe those who are not two spirited... doctors only know what they have been taught... I sat with the head on John Hospkins hospital years ago as they were shutting down their trans studies... I asked why... he said gender is to fragile and we haven't a clue what causes transsexual behavior... then he went through all the popular stories that we hear now about, the second androgen wash... it's in our genes... finally he said... we will have to wait until your own doctors can clue us in... John Hopkins was the first to start trans studies in this country on a large scale and the first to stop...

Hi Sara... hope you are well...


andrea 4 years ago

Hi Jeanine - I hope it is alright to right on this board like this. I see where you are coming from, I really do, and I have doubts each day so the "two-spirit" concept is really appealing. However, I really am not sure that I could cope with seeing myself become more masculine and I just don't think that further male existance is an option for me. Any kids I am able to have in future will no doubt suffer and I will carry this guilt with me always. I hope that I can find a special someone who can see my good points and make any parenting arrangements work.


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

hiya andrea! please forgive me for being harsh, and yes, much of how i feel now about transition has been shaped by my pain, especially when children are involved. i know, i've lived it. i find it very interesting to see the alacrity that many people have at the beginning of transition and how they gradually change over time as the realities of what they have lost (and what they have never been able to gain) begin to settle in. what you may not hear from the trans community is that transition has real consequences that are very painful, especially if it means losing the people that you love the most, who will very likely feel abandoned and betrayed. every would-be transgirl seems to believe the myth that transition will always be wonderful, exciting, sexy, and that somehow their families will (and should) support them. what narcissism! what an egocentric, masculine idea! i also find it ironic that at least for some, the urge to transition is fueled by a testosterone influenced brain that is sexually attracted to the woman he hopes to become. so please be careful about what may be motivating you, and try not to assume your children will be okay with it. also be aware of your own possible narcissism and unrealistic expectations. indeed, being transgender is not a choice, but transition is.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Una Jane... sorry if we are taking up to much of the space... all of you are welcome to post any feelings about what is happening hear... if you mean have we tried to have community, yes we have... it's hard from our end also... for us it's like you having cancer... no matter how selfish we may look all of us... all of us love our families... part of the discussion here is are we getting the whole story from the medical community... so I would assume that if you are , were or maybe married to a trans you would need as much communication as possible... I am so sorry you are hurt and that's what we are discussing..


Jeanine 4 years ago

Andrea..please post all you want....we are all here to help....@una jane...one of the reasons...we have been talking is izettl has been out having a baby


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Izettl, Thank you for allowing me to continue to post comments on your hub. I in no way mean to distract from the origional point that the hub was intended for. I came to this hub for information, answers and to see what the children's viewpoints are on the subject of their parent transitioning whether it be sad, joyous or somewhere in between. I know that you have alot of followers on your hubs and was pleased that the viewpoints were from all points of view, not just one sided.I have just read Juliall823 and really feel for her and those who comented on her hub, but there hasn't been many comments over the past few years and the one person who gave a different prospective was shunned for posting, not by her I must add but by a couple of others who were also posting on her hub. Part of the healing process would be understanding all sides of a situation and your hubs seem to allow for that. Once again, Thank you


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sara... such a sweet note and you are right... now that Izettl is back I will back off and let this happen the way it should... while she was gone... I just didn't want it to die..


andrea 4 years ago

Hi everyone - sorry I haven't written for a while. Thanks for the comments, some supportive, some a heart felt 'reality check' I really appreciated - Celeste - thank you for writing what you did - I see a gender therapist and have gone to a few transsexual groups, and have seen how people can make the mistake of thinking transition is 'sexy' and have seen how loved-ones have abandoned people who have transitioned. I am now five months on HRT and I can tell you that transition isn't sexy at all! I have made the commitment to myself that I will be totally honest to myself and the professionals at the gender clinic and my GP about what I am losing (sex drive) and what I am gaining (gender dysphoria/anxiety lifting, inner peace). I don't know what type of parent I'll be - if it ever happens - I do know that any kids that I am blessed with will thankfully now never know me as the moody, depressive and sometimes aggressive person I was before I started my transition. I will have regrets but I honestly believe the benefits will considerably outweigh them. Best wishes to all


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

you're quite welcome, and i'm glad that you've been honest with yourself. however, i do think that it would be better if you begin living full-time fem and go through the bulk of transition before having children. i feel the greatest trauma for the child is observing the physical and psychological changes that the parent undergoes. sadly, many transparents falsely reassure their children and significant other that they will essentially remain the same person they were before transition, save the physical changes. but we both know that is so untrue, as hormones effect one psychologically also. take care sweetie! :-)


jeanine 4 years ago

Now that's great advice, because we do change... and if one can stand up and be truthful it is better... you will not be the same person... that's why you are changing..lol.. right... Hi C... hope you are well... you look absolutely beautiful lately...


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

awww, you are always so kind, my dear. thank you!!!


Andrea 4 years ago

Hi - just looked and I've seen that my last comment has been deleted - I must apologise if I upset anyone - my decision to transition before considering kids is somewhat against the grain of this message board, so I do understand why it may have been erased, but I thought it was important to have the views of someone who had obviously thought the process through based on the experience of others aired as well. I realised today just how I may hurt the very kids I seek to care for - for example, how would they explain their regional roots to anyone, "Oh, My Mum is from xyz and my Dad, erm...". Do I have the right to disinherit them like this? But do I have the right to be continually unhappy around them, to become and be something I am not for them and then crack under the strain of gender dysphoria? Best wishes to all


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Andrea... I do understand the pain... but I hope I can sustain the pian to keep from hurting them... so I believe we are to live fully as both... as men would know women and women who know men... each knowing ourselves and the intimacy that we share in our two spirits living as one... in one body... that has been given to us... it is our uniqueness ... and as soon as we choose one or the other we are no longer unique... we can be different and very loving in either gender... but to have both is truly unique... I'm sure if one choose one or the other you can still be unique but just not as unique... of course this is my opinion... and could be driven from my own psychosis... but there is history to back up my claims... if you google "two spirits" you 'll see that I'm telling the truth... we were great advisers to Kings and Queens, and leaders all of the world... then about 100 years ago the medical community began to help us... and now try to convince us to change to one or the other... we are not one or the other but both... think about it... from the most respected to the pride of the Jerry Springer show, how did we fall so far.... guess... the medical community has been helping us... be one or the other... you can write this off as some nut case but the reality is they are killing us off one at a time... ...


andrea 4 years ago

Hi Jeanine - of course I am not going to write-off what you are saying! It makes a lot of sense - in a way, I have lived and will always live a "two-spirit" life - for example, many of my typical male interests in technology etc. will remain after transition - as woll much of my character I think - there will be changes, yes, but I will always try to maintain much of who I am - I see this as an important challenge of transition - to remain something of who you are despite of everything that is happening. My motivation for transition comes from controlling gender dysphoria, that's all - I just want to look in a mirror and see something that makes sense.


Jeanine 4 years ago

I can relate although I can't give up my family... so I will stay with this body... I don't want to hurt my wife or my Children although they all know... and are very understanding... lives of loved ones are so fragile... emotions are a strange thing... I guess what I'm saying is I don't believe you can ever control the dysphoria... I think you get to see the woman in you but then she knows you are not completely her either... so to me if you join the binary system you simply just change sides of the mirror... instead of a man looking at a mirror and saying I'm a woman in there I know I am... you become the woman looking from the other side saying...I thought I was all woman but I realize now I am part man also... but for some reason our tribe seems to have lost that discerning moment in our own lives...


andrea 4 years ago

Jeanine - God I am glad to have found you - your approach makes a lot of sense, it really does. I for one completely see where you are coming from but I am not sure it could be an option for me. There is much talk from Gender clinics that transition is a "cure-all" when in fact it cannot be - I take this knowledge with me nd I realise that I am playing to a corruption in order to find more stability. People like us face very difficult choices. Best wishes -x-


Jeanine 4 years ago

Thanks dear... I wished we weren't plagued by the on going desire to change... it's maddening the older I get the closer I get to her... she has all but put him away... and that's a sad moment for me... he had achieved some things that she could have never done, but she doesn't seem to care... I weep more now, and my emotional needs have seemed to over take me... and while I feel more like who I am supposed to be, I feel I am damaged goods for sure... there seems to be no way out... the saddest thing that has ever happened to me... like being born under a bad sign... there is very little hope, and very little understanding from the world... weariness is always at my door... why would a loving God let this happen to you or I... there must be a reason... and that's how and why I came to believe the way I do... there must have been a purpose for us as a tribe other than just to be a different vessel for men to love and for us to love them... thanks for the encouragement.. I can see where you would want to just give in to the binary system... I laid those thoughts aside so long ago... my family is the most important thing that's ever happened to me...


andrea 4 years ago

Jeanine. You are suffering so much. I can think of lots of advice but I feel you need to seek psychological help - I am not for one moment saying you are 'mad' etc. but it seems to me that your gender dysphoria is running everything...why not see a counsellor not normally involved with gender issues first? I thought of this as I can tell that you are a highly perceptive individual who will probably reject any bias, perceived or real, towards you transitioing or even agagainst you transitioning, therefore a 'neutral' counsellor may be the best way to go! Seeing a general counsellor may help you get a sense of your general wellbeing as well. I have had to look at myself and ask the question...Do I want to go on wondering 'if only...' all my life, coming to the very reluctant conclusion that I can't carry on as a man. I still want to carry on with some of my male interests and I am really not sure I will now meet someone to share my life with...but what choice do I have? Jeanine...ask questions like these in front of a general practice counsellor, get someone else involved in what's going on in your head. Best wishes


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Andrea, I have had five therapist and they all say the same thing... I will only find relief if I transition... but you know how I feel about that... my family is first and yes the dysphoria is running my life... I can't go forward and I can't go back...it's the strangest thing that's ever happened to me... after being able to control both for so many years , how did I end up here...you may be right about a general therapist but I tried that a couple of years ago and although she was the strongest in town, she was clueless when it came to this craziness in my life...before to long I felt like I was her therapist... there is no hope no rest, except death, and I'm not big on that...lol... I don't feel mad, but I do feel split between the two... he has always been there for me and now that he is older, she doesn't seem to care... much like a genetic female of her age, no longer caring if anyone knows or not... she gets up in the morrow and just dresses anyway she wants now, then he has to hustle around and figure out how to deal with her... it is getting worse... and I do not know how long he has... she is much stronger now and he is much more confused by the day...


Katrina 4 years ago

My ex came to pick up my 7yr old son for the weekend…with a brand new set of boobs. My daughter is 13 and has refused to speak to him for 3 years…she is very hurt at the loss of what she thought was her "papa". As there mother, it is extremely difficult to see the pain that they go through trying to fathom why their dad wasn't happy being just the way he was. They dont even have a dad anymore, it's sad. If anyone has been through a similar situation as my teenage daughter, she needs someone to talk to who can relate. Please email me at katrinrouge@yahoo.com

Thank you


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Kat, Izettl has gone through it so she will contact you or you can contact her email on this site... I am so sorry for your kids, what we have as trans is a very dangerous thing to families, I did not transition because I couldn't bring myself to hurt my wife and kids. It's a very hard thing for me personally but Izettl has helped me see what it might do to them for these last few years...there are two other hubs she has pinned that you may be able to find others who have faced this also... "Just because you have boobs, doesn't make you a woman" and "Misunderstanding Gender"... Hope these help

the question that has helped me most is... what genetic female would ever hurt the children on purpose and the answer is none, not one, unless they are mentally sick... so, I know myself, I would kill any man that tried to hurt my children, even the one I live inside of.... this one simple rule, has had an amazing affect on my own life... good luck and I'll be praying for you and your family...


andrea 4 years ago

Hi Jeanine and Katrina, for the reasons described I have decided to transition before I consider having any kids...knowing that I threaten the chance of having a family but at least I would not hurt anyone if I do end up as a parent. This must be a very difficult situation to deal with. Gender dysphoria is a lifelong condition where the sufferer is constantly reminded that their gender ideal and body do not match - although my GP recently said that some people can receive help to live with the condition, I would probably say that anyone that considers transition will eventually go through with it or at least have an "unconventional" side to their lives. Katrina - it may help you to research Gender Dysphoria on the Internet or to ask medical professionals about it? Try sharing this knowledge with your kids? I would never consider having any enhancemnt surgery - particularly if I had been in your ex-partner's situation - because there would be too much chance too soon. Best wishes


Celeste Richard profile image

Celeste Richard 4 years ago from Memphis, Tennessee

Never say never :-)


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Hi Izettl, hope everything is well, hows the baby doing? Hi Jeanine (mom) Hope you are well also. I sent Izettl my email address for you because I didnt want to fill up her hub with my mundane issues and my laptop high CPU's and locks up 9.8 times out of 10 when I open the HUB Pages. Would love to hear from you and catch up. I try to get on here from time to time to see if there is any new information but usually cannot. I read Katrina's post, this is the type thing with the children that I continuously struggle with, whether I should have started my transition or just live like I always have, keeping the disappointment and unhappiness with myself instead of passing it on to my child, because his father is not what he feels that im suppose to be, a man. I think what you have done with the two spirited, would be harder than not doing it at all or on the other side, transitioning all the way, at least in this part of the U.S., because either you better look and act like a man or you better look and act like a woman, anything in between is subject to mental and physical abuse. I think in rare situations the children are fine or accepting with their fathers transition, they are just happy to be with you no matter what, but in most cases they want their father to look and act like a man, their dad. I have and continue to try and find something solid to grab on to because I feel like I am falling and nothing good will come out of my transgender issues. I dont want to hurt my child and I dont want the hurt within myself anymore.


Gabby 4 years ago

I'm post op myself nearly 10 years though much younger and not being able to have children due to an intersexed condition which led me to transition. My own view is your father is too old to be a transexual as there are many medical risks as there are even for me. I can't smoke, drink have to watch what I eat and excercise to maintain my ability to pass.

At 81, surgery is inpractical and dangerous more so and inappropriate when you have a family and grandchildren.

I pass well, but I am treated in my country like I have a severe mental illness, unable to get a job in my field due to my situation being made public knowledge despite never being unemployed pre op, messy facial surgery, having been homeless though I did manage to get some private housing and generally have neighbours and people in general shun me. That doesn't me I was wrongly diagnoised but few transexuals hold on to friendships and even fewer pass as complete females. I did this at a young age, weigh 65kg and am only 5ft 7 so if it 's hard for me which it is in the UK I feel for your DAD/ Mum but if she has you then your new mother will have a good quality of life.

It isn't all plain sailing. I know transexuals that want to cheat the system. Be a man at work and a woman at home. No one can live a life like that. But you are tolerated not accepted, and I suspect that is true of the USA as it is here in the UK.


Andrea 4 years ago

Hi Gabby. I also live the UK but have found people to be generally accepting. Before my transition began, I was often mistaken for a female so perhaps I have been lucky! I think that at least some of my work colleagues know of my past but either choose not to discuss it or really don't care. I have lost friends and I have been practically disowned by my extended family - many people who transition are - and I have increasing doubts that I will find someone to share my life with. I think it is fair to say that many people outside of sexuality and gender "norms" are more tolerated than accepted.


Andrea 4 years ago

Gabby - you are right when you say that sometimes we are simply tolerated rather than accepted. I pass pretty well but I know I am "read" sometimes - it didn't bother me until a couple fo days ago I realised that a new member of staff at work had deliberately timetabled her shifts so that she doesn't have to shadow me. What will I inflict on my kids? Transition is not a choice, in my opinion, but living with it can be hell.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I have been searching for some time for some answers and still have not found them. I do not in any way expect my friends and family to owe me anything when it comes to me being transgender but why does it have to be so difficult. I have stood by them,through thick and thin, even when I had other priorities in my life ,no questions ask, when they have been down and out, cancer, deaths in their families, divorces, alcohol and drugs, and everything in between. I have never had to call upon them for anything, even with my divorce,declining health and loss of job I never did and still need nothing from them except a little compassion and understanding. Me being transgender has not changed the way I feel about them and their families so why does this cause so many opinions and problems within everyone and why does this cause so much division. I have tried to say that true friends will stand beside you but why does this cause everyone to turn their backs and run. What they had ask of me in the past when I stood with them, took from me physically and financially but I was there for them, and I dont ask that from them in return now, just take me for who I am and not make this any more difficult than it has to be. Just be happy for me because I am trying to find myself. I am trying to do what is right by my family and friends by staying here, but because of their actions find myself thinking seriously about doing what alot of trans do and start a completely new life somewhere else.


Adrian 4 years ago

It's good to see such tolerance in most of these posts as that's the only weapon we have to create a more bearable society.The reason I say this is that from my own perception it's pretty unbearable.

All the pain and torment children go through is a real tragedy and it goes on and on due to deception lies abuse,-the list goes on.A lot of the pain is unavoidable concerning this particular subject, as to me it seems the pain is handed down to the child from parent to parent until in the form of transsexualism the lid finally blows off the pressure cooker of social convention.

I think if sexual gender was not so confined to such a strict stereotypical model, then a lot of cross-gender behaviour would be explored and expressed in our early years without fear of punishment or ridicule,leading to a more balanced outcome when we become adults.In this imaginary society those who wished to pursue a different sexual orientation would be free to do so at a much earlier age which would have the knock on effect of less relationships/marriages between opposite sexes turning into a charade leading to the sad and tragic scenarios we have read about here.

This might seem like some utopian dream but I think it can be possible, though I am not sure if the western society I am familiar with is anywhere near the stage of taking this on bored yet.

It is a shame that Thailand has such a poor reputation as regards gender orientation due to the sexual tourism industry indulged in mainly by western men.-Behind the scenes in villages and towns throughout the country outside Bangkok a very different approach to gender is tolerated and to an extent celebrated and though this might have it's flaws,I think it's worth reading about just to give us here in the West a glimpse of how different things might be.

Before I sign off I feel I must say my heart goes out to all of you who have written so honestly and openly about your painful and personal experiences-I hope though on a more detached level my contribution here might be of some relevance and interest.


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Adrian~ I think the issue is lack of education. If you look up trans on internet you get drab clinical general info or x rated sexual deviant stuff. Our society puts sex out there in obvious ways but does little to help us talk about it- parents have a hard time talking about sex to their kids and yet sex is everywhere.

Other society's may accept trans but they are usually still ow on the social ladder and thats too bad.

Sara~ I've been in the same situation minus the trans issue, but I've always been there for my family and when I got rheumatoid arthritis and could barely walk for two months nobody was there- didn't even want to visit me. It's sad that our society is like that- we don't want issues, we want only happy, we don't like messy or untidy life situations and anything less makes us uncomfortable. I personally don't think starting a new life is the answer- ever heard to no run away from your problems. Most of the time family wants you to be happy, but that's a catch 22 because they can be the source of our misery. I do always hope the best for you and am as fustrated as you are about the lack of and bad info on this subject. Have you tried blatantly telling your family exactly what you need from them?


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Izettl, I wish that we had grown up best friends, or lived close to each other,you always have such a logical way of looking at things, but you are the one with a degree, lol. I am sorry to hear that you have rheumatoid arthritis and I honestly would have came and helped you out, thats just the way I am. I guess thats why it frustrates me so much when I ask for very little in return now and everyone treats me like I have the plague. Because of you and Jeanine, I was really prepaired for that but it still isn't right. You are so right about nobody wants issues only happy, what ever happened to taking care of things like an adult. I have not run yet and I can not promiss anything but the thought is becoming a regular thought lately. My son is the only reason in the world that is keeping me here right now, If it was not for him, I would find a completely new start somewhere else and I have researched places that I would like to live and none of them are close to here. But for now I am not running from my problems, proverbially pulling my hair out that took me so long to grow. As for blatently telling them, Yes, they are in denial, I will just keep taking it slowly for now, and give them more time as long as they dont keep getting nasty with me. P.S I am using your writing name out of respect for your Hubs, and thanks for the compliment on my pic. Hugs


Jeanine 4 years ago

Sarah, don't run,let me share with you something that happened to me. If you are about to take the time with your friends and family there comes a time that they will all see you as you see yourself. There is a tipping point that I reached really by accident.. I continued to be respectful of my friends and my family and all knew something was different but I continued to try and stay the man they all knew. One day the hormones, the electrolysis and the anti-androgens just did their job. I was no longer the man I was but not offensive to them either. I think that 's what we miss as older trans or two spirits as I am. with younger TS those around them are used to their features changing because they are our young. As we age those around us see our features stabilize... if one can take the time to be patient, then the meds do their job. If you read very closely, what Izettl has written about her fathers transition, it's not the transition that hurt so much as he sprung it upon her... I think that is the key. Most people are compassionate, well some people, well those around you that love you, I have found are compassionate because they have seen my efforts to try and not rush into transition. This mutual respect is something we all need not only as transsexuals but as human beings also... their respect is there, you just have to earn it and most of us as trans do not want to take that time... therefore, if one rushes into transition, you get a lot of people who see that, including myself as a very male behavior. Women are more calculated than that, they learn early on, usually in that dreaded jr. high class that girls must not make rash or quick decisions... those kind of decisions can lead to pregnancy and or being called slut or even worse. Take the time dear, you will not be disappointed. If you must choose one or the other in the binary system and you do choose to be the girl side of you, then truly be her in mind and spirit... then you won't be judged so harshly, hopefully... Remember time in the case is on your side... don't rush out and change your body all at once, as soon as you do, the whole world sees you... women do things in private, think about it like make up... some women take hours, some take just a few moments... but when we see them, the whole idea is that we see them as the beauties they are... not how long they took to do their make up... understand... be the woman... this is not a fantasy, this is real life and it's scary, be respectful of all women because they all did what you are going through in the fifth grade or somewhere right along there.... good luck... don't run away... Jean


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

For those of you whom I haven't had much contact on here with, but wish I could. I just replaced my SLOW computer (unable to get on this hub) so I can now join in a lot more. Yay!

I may not be even close to your situation but I do know from experience that running isn't the solution and i know that decisions we make for our kids are good ones- if you stay for your son, that's good. Decisions we make not great for our kids, we will regret. My dad stuck it out in his marriage to my mom until I was 10- he didn't want to leave me when I was little. I respect him for that.

Sara...realize you are doing the best you can. People just do the best they can with what they have.There is no ideal scenario and I think many trans try to plan things out and figure in all aspects of everything but life just doesn't work like that. As a woman, you've got to stick with your intuition and gut instinct- as parents we are the world to our kids.


Jeanine 4 years ago

in marriage counseling, I have often heard people ask, "what do you want me to do, just stay in this marriage for the kids sake".. well yeah...duh... they are your kids, suck it up and think of your kids first... you can do it and you'll never regret it... they are you and you are them... John Lennon " I am he and he is me and we are we and we are all together"...lol... you can do it Sara, I know you can... I like those kids... they are all worth it... lol... sometimes you want to ring their necks, but most time you want to hug em...lol... and it's the best way to love your estranged wife if you are at odds with her over the transition... we all know what the right thing to do is in our lives, sometimes we just need to be reminded...

Izettl... yeah for you on getting a new computer... what did you get and it's about time you got back over here and checked on us...lol...


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Thanks for the support and advice . I know better than to run, at least at this point, because it is still early in my journey. I suppose that it does not matter which side of this situation that someone is on, it has it's highs and lows, so I must expect , or everyone involved should expect the bad with the good . For myself , I have tried to plan for everything and hoped that all would turn out without flaws, and that is where I knew better but still am human and do get disappointed when things dont go exactly as planned. I think what makes it so difficult is that some family and friends have to now make everything I do, their business, because they now know, not trying to help and being highly opinionated. I have alot to add to this but am at a loss for words... I guess that I do not understand why when someone finds out that someone they know is trans, why the dynamics of the relationship change. All thats changed is the fact that they now know something that they did not know before, I like looking and acting female, big deal. As for their opinions, some have become angry with me , like my ex wife, who had cheated on me for more than a year , before I filed for divorce , way before she ever knew that I was trans, she is now hateful and angry that the handsome man that she married is no longer there and she is causing unnecessary problems between her and I and our son. I am just still amazed how when someone finds out that I am changing gender that it brings the worst out in almost everyone. Why? I am just going to continue to take it slow and give everyone time to adjust, for my son's sake . Sorry about the rant, thanks for being there for me, because of everyone here , it makes it easier to hang on.


Jeanine 4 years ago

I'm so sorry sara... I think they act they way because of the primal fears within them... when we were their spiritual leaders and advisers to their kings and queens, they all looked up to us... thhe reason the looked up to us is we were that close to the power that kept them safe, the other reason is because they knew we were not one or the other but human being that possessed both genders... I know I am over simplifying but it's really true... and I don't know how long it will take for the trans community to realize it... the binaries are pissed that we would be so powerful and lay it all down to be like them really... so they no long look up to us... when they see we are just like them... nothing more than a man... or a woman... for thousands of years they were taught that we were special... now we come to them and ask if we can be like them... it's offensive to everyone of them... for thousands of years we told them what they should do to be better suited to this world and now, they see it is a lie, if we choose to change...


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

Sara~ A hint of perfection in your strategy to deal with family and friends. You can't possibly plan for every outcome- you'll drive yourself nuts. No wonder you'd consider running away. You are treating trans as all your fault- it's who you are so dont act like you need to apologize. I learned something in psychology that can easily be applied to real life: people react to how you react. If you treat this as something ordinary and go with the flow rather than feeling bad about it then you are giving others a green light to make you feel bad too. I know easier said then done. But when my dad approached me he was hostile like he already expected me to not accept him and at that time Sh*t hit the fan and everything else came out that we wanted to say...not even about the trans thing so no it didn't go well because my dad approached it on the defense.

The answer to your question of why people are different just upon knowing- in general people look for any excuse to be judgemental and treat another poorly. Misery loves company. Many people are unhappy themselves and its terrific when they can find someone else to make unhappy too- sad but true. But no real answer to why they do that...sorry.

Also with your ex. Girl...that's still going on with my husband and his ex minus and gender changes- i don't understand why all the hate still between them. His ex wife is stirring the pot with all sorts of things while their daughter is staying with us for hte summer. After 15 yrs you'd think they'd learn to play nice. For me...these kind of issues boil down to lack of education and immaturity.

My reason for giving some of my life examples is to realize these things happen in life to everyone- you're not extraordinary even though it may feel that way because your of your transition, but I actually lost friends who didn't want to be with me because I was "sick" with my Rheumatoid Arthritis. People just didn't want to be around me- it was hard. It wasn't because I was negative...i wasn't...it was just htey were afraid....maybe they'd catch it or they didn't know anything about the disease. Soo my point again is you and whatever your situation is, it's not too unique because these are normal human reactions to many other things besides trans issues. i guess I want to say you're completely" normal". These reactions are not just because of the trans thing but because people react like this...to anything "different" or "threatening" or fearful of or don't understand, etc.


smoke and mirrors 4 years ago

Hello to all of you.

I found htis page several days ago... realised the postings go back many years and yet still feel that since i have not spoken my own experience much to others there is an opportunity here. To begin with I am a 33 year old male whose father changed gender fifteen years ago.

Life has been a unique experiencesince, to say the very least.

I am one of three brothers. My middle brother was born normal but unfortunately ended up with a life crippling disability just after birth. He was two years younger than me and passed away last year.

So... I have looked, at length, for support for the children... for those of us that have moved through similar experiences and yet each being so individual to the other. I personally believe most of us here have shared experiences with common ground. It is the indivdual nuances that make the difference.

The reason I am posting here, more than anything else, is that the original post was, specifically about the child. About exploring the trauma a child experiences going through this process. As such I could relate... there was common ground.

As the blog continued this became less true (for me). More individuals sharing their own stories of becoming transgender with...

Unfortunately for me I found myself hitting a wall with atttempting to relate and understand.

Let me clarify, I am a sibling of a child with special needs. This field has been explored at length and their does exist facillities out there to support us. Amazingly, when I looked into it further I realised I fit about 90 percent of the affected attributes of being raised in a family unit like this. However...

As a child of a father who had a gender change? Nothing...

As a young man of eighteen, my youngest broher thirteen. Nothing.

I dont sit here with anger over this. It is just a matter of what is. I have google searched for support on and off for years, and it was only by chance I found this page.

So.. I write.. to validate that many of the assertions made by the original post support my experience. Of the selfishness of the transgender individual.

The damage caused to me... I find very difficult to quantify... I was my fathers closest friend and in turn, he mine. I was the first person he told about his gender change. He told me on the saturday night before my month of year 12, university level exam period. And then asked me not to tell my mother... after two weeks I broke down and collapsed, my exams a disaster.

Two years later I was in the military doing basic training... It was then I took the call from my mother that my father had sold his buisiness and left to thailand for gender reassignment. I broke down again.

Throughout the changing process leading up to this I tried to understand. We caught up a lot. I spent many nights out fielding the looks from others, having conversations with the transitioning woman about being assaulted and beaten, looks from others, sexual needs.

After the change the stories moved onto the actual encountes with men and so on...

They were and still remain tough times to reflect on.

We havent spoken for about seven or so years now, communication is over. It finally broke one day when we made plans to catch up and meet for a morning coffee. I arrived ten minutes early and waited... and waited... two hours later i received the call "Oh, i cant make it, Im in another town over here. Come and meet me here instead." The other town mentioned was close to an hour away. I snapped. I told her to fuck off and to start thinking about others for a change and I then hung up in anger. I have since twice tried to speak again through a family friend and both times I have been told my actions hurt her too much.

So now... where am I at.

With help, I have finally identified that I had experienced trauma. I never thought of it in this term before. The issue for me now, all these years later, as I live a mostly single life of loss, grief and sadness.

Unfortunately for me I feel that if someone I love, that I cared for so much can just filter out and disappear what is to stop any other doing the same thing to me again. This is one of the key areas I am working on personally.

Just to clarify for many of you I read.

"I have chosen to feel hurt!" yes... this is true. This is something my father said to me just prior to the change. "I didnt hurt you... you chose to be hurt." In the same way that if someone punched me in the face and said... "I didnt hurt you... you need to control the pain receptors in your brain... thats whats causing you to be hurt."

Years pass... about 15 and I am now talking more, trying to work out my grief. When my brother passed last year we heard that the person who was my father apparently asked the question... "What was he like?" of my brother... I don't know if i have the words for how sad that made me feel. My brother was a truly unique special amazing soul.

Being constructive here... Im not sure... I had my hopes raised briefly and then the more I read of the hub the more i watched as it slowly appeared (to me) to lose its focus.

What am I looking for? I search for that which is unattainable to a broken man. I search for happiness. Whatever that might be. And in the meantime I continue to read, learn and understand. There is no place in this world for ignorance. None at all. But for those of us left behind... sometimes it is nice to be reminded that we are valued...

To all of the above I wish you every success on your journey. thankyou for taking the time to read this.

J


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi J... I am so sorry for the hurt you have experienced and I am the other primary writer on this but with Izettl... she and I have become good friends through her ability to share her pain.. one of the reason the hub hanged was I needed to help her with her own pain... everyone else was calling her names and doing the typical trans beat down of you children and your hurt... so I did want to ease her pain... in turn when I read and understood how painful it is and would be to my children... I began to look for another way... I did not transition fully as so many have... thanks to Izettl and others like you, I am winning the battle against transition, for me at least, I feel better... please make sure you speak with Izettl, because she has some great info for you... also she and her father have come into a new place so don't give up... the years on this site was and is on purpose... through this exploration, I have found a history of two spirited people/Trans and it is not being taught or given to transsexuals by the medical community nor the therapist ... so the selfishness that you speak of is really mixed with disbelief on our part that we could go to such lengths to try and fix this in our own lives and still not find relief... His hurt( your fathers) is overwhelming and it has nothing to do with the way you treted him... it has to do with what I just told you... please write as much as you want to here, because this is a different site... she also has three or four other hubs relating to gender... welcome to an honest site... email her if you need to... she has a new born so she is busy... thanks so much for your candor and so sorry for the hurt you have endured... J


SmokeandMirrors 4 years ago

Jeanine,

I appreciate your words and response. Unfortunately for me I find myself challenged by how best to reply both to you and my original post. Much like Izettl I have one day planned to write my thoughts down on my experience. The reality is, it is dificult to find the support for families.

I wasn't surprised when more individuals who were considering becoming transgender posted in here. I can't begin to imagine the fear, anger, frustration and social prejudice that one feels undergoing this process.

However... I feel this is not the point. As much as the Transgender person needs support I also believe the families do. And as yet, I still hold my belief that families are the forgotten ones. As I write this, partially addressing you speciffically and to other readers generally I reflect that I am not entirely comfortable with the two sides of the debate existing side by side. I feel both the parent, and the families require a seperate place to move through their process to avoid the judging of the other.

I read some of the judgmental remarks directed at Izettl earlier... I have heard all of those arguments directed at me at some time or another. How is it, even here, there is no place free for the expression.

Selfishness...

Is a word I have heard a lot. From both sides of the argument. Ultimately I believe that we are, all of us, selfish in regards to this process. For myself, through the trauma I experienced, I had to protect my core self. I had to be selfish to survive. For the transgender, the world is incredibly judging, and I am not surprised that selfish components exist here.

Let me talk briefly about grief. About the loss of a loved one.

If a loved one passes their are social norms that trigger into affect. Flowers arrive, cards. People arrive and offer food, hugs, they cry with you and send you their love. Hours are spent sharing stories of the loved one. There is a funeral, people come together, sing songs and share jokes. And then, a year later, people still, come together to reflect... this was my experience when my brother passed.

With my father... none of this transpired, in fact people outright avoid the family as they possibly felt ill equiped with the language to discuss any of the points. Of course... the argument I heard... "your father isn't dead, just changed." If this was true, I wouldnt feel the loss that I feel. I could have called my father up and spoke to him about my graduation, my travels and adventures.

I think it is important to explain to any who read this, I believe, that the person who was my father is, now, as a person, more complete. And I have no doubt everything that transpired needed to happen. However... their is fallout, and a whole family unit was thrown into chaos.

I personally do not believe I will have anything ever to do with her again. It is the reality that this was a bad family outcome. But for other families I believe that as the discourse and language continues to grow other options will become viable.

Some of the transgender speakers above have spoken at length about young children and how they are handling the process. I really hope the individuals involve reaslise that the challenges they face have life long outcomes. I write this not to dissuade from choices but rather to be mindful of patience and perserverance.

I can tell any who read this... that as a man... an eighteen year old male, the process of completely breaking down the self, spending hours in darkness trying to understand concepts of identity that were forced upon me is not "normal". Those dark days were and still remain the hardest part of my life, seared into me and a huge part of why now, I feel comfortable with my level of awareness and understanding.

I think it is important to add that I am not seeking any form of perfect solution. When I found this site I was wondering, as I always had, of the shared experiences of others like me.

Again to all of you, I wish you all as safe a journey as is possible.

J


jeanine 4 years ago

I do understand your pain for I live with this everyday also and will never transition to what my mind and soul yearns for...and what I feel like inside... as far as a separate place for the family... perhaps you are right... but if you read, you'll see there are times that I commented to keep this hub alive and working... now you must know that might have something to do with allowing you as a child of a TS person a place you could comment... don't give up... people change and the nasty comments are just welcome here as yours or mine... I'm sure you are a very brave and strong person now... I am no glad you had to face it... you do need to know that our tribe was a very tribe at one time throughout history... we were advisers to kings and queens all over the world... what has happened in the last hundred years if that we have gotten some very bad advise from the medical community... from advisers to Kings and queens to the pride of the "Jerry Springer Show"... one day we will come to our senses and realize we are here to help each of you in the binary system understand each other... the angst that all people have towards us is based in a primal fear and distain that we stopped being your helpers and wanted to join you and become binaries... look at your fathers father or his grandfather the challenge lies there... in that some how we lost our history and it has been hidden from parents... and uneducated parent immediately takes little johnnie to the dr is John boy thinks he's a girl... or worse.. the parent abuses the child by telling him he can think that... an uneducated Dr. might say well if Johnnie is not a boy... he must be a girl... when in reality we are both, not one or the other but both... again I am s sorry this happened to you and I am in no way defending your father... my question to all of us, to my help group and to every trans I know is this... "what genetic female do you know that would ever hurt their children on purpose... that's right... not one... myself, I would kill any man who tried to hurt my children, including the one I live in" "The lioness within" you are right in that are is not any good info out here for the famlies and children of trans and that's part of what this site is about... again please don't give up... look deeper... it was his father more than likely... I have a different take on the whole thing because I was treated differently by my parents and by my wife... therefore I have had options that others have not had... we must all talk or we will never learn... I wish you well... J


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

J "Smoke and mirrors"~ The child's pain is very unique. As a society we reward and praise those who cover their feelings and "deal" with things unnoticeably or without disturbance. No matter what feelings I had about my dad changing, they were wrong. Most trans believed I should have felt like them- excited and happy.

My dad did not change until I was 26, but my childhood was definitely different and my teens confusing...about my dad. Learning that dads do not usually play dress-up (enjoying it more then their daughter) ...and many other oddities and lies throughout my childhood.

You perhaps have expressed your feelings more clearly than I did in this hub. this was my first go at writing online- I just got it out of system and off my chest- the words came out and yes after 3+ years I've wanted to change it, but honestly it was what I was feeling at the time and the first time I wrote about my dad- why change the genuine feelings. I have written more on this in other hubs http://hubpages.com/relationships/JustBecauseYouHa... and "misunderstanding gender" and recently (you may find this one more organized) http://hubpages.com/relationships/TransgenderTrans...

That last hub may bve more useful to you- I wrote it about a month ago so its more updated. It talks about grieving a parent and putting sex and gender aside, it would be like your parent one day saying to you they just want to be your new friend or uncle instead of dad (even that is hurtful) so of course their transitions are hurtful.

Yes, I absolutely agree there is little if any support for families of this type of thing. Perhaps we are supposed to just get over it and accept things. I think your anaolgy of grief and funeral type of traditions is correct- there is also nothing like this for transitioning of a parent.

Like I said above about how "handling" things well is praised in our society. I remember wanting to be a pleasing child and not rock the boat- all that time I appeared to be handling things well I truly wasn't and all those who say the young ones are...are full of sh*t. Little kids want to please their parents. my mom never explained to me why dad had a closet full of wigs and dresses, but I never asked to not rock the boat. I was a good little girl. Confused, but good.


Smoke and mirrors 4 years ago

Izettl and others,

I have read all three of your posts and a considerable portion of the commentaries. I have to commend you, for at the very least engaging in the issue. I have no doubt the support you offer others is a considerable step in the right direction.

I have often pondered outcomes... What is the outcome that i am after... I thought this for a considerable time even before I posted. Ultimately I am hoping to continue to raise awareness... To add more ideas and insight for others who might be better or worse equipped than I am in this field... The idea of not being the solely alone on this issue springs to mind.

For me personally I still hold out the chance for greater awareness on this issue. The issues in and around commonality of experience leads me to believe and hope that their is a potential to ultimately create better coping skills in time. And that the children can be afforded opportunities to express their emotions without fear of reprisal and admonishment.

I have tried over time and I do believe that I can now appreciate the need for the transgender person to be in a position where the individual feels complete. My ability to understand this need though is very different from the time that i required to come to this understanding... Indeed it has been fifteen years and I still have moments of profound sadness at the trauma.

Acceptance is a strange beast in my opinion. A friend of mine many years ago (a gay man) spoke to me about his opinion of bisexual and transgender people... In his mind... Apparently you were either gay or straight... The other two were ridiculous in his opinion... And then their was my fathers father and mother, my grandparents. My grandmother immediately refused any contact to my transitioning parent. To my knowledge after the change they never spoke again. My grandfather however... A source of true inspiration to me said to me... "she is my child, and as my child I will always love her and be their for her regardless of life's challenges." until the day he passed my grandfather exceed (in my opinion) anything that could be asked of a parent. I tried my hardest to follow his example however mostly their were complications.

It is difficult now, all these years later. Memories shift and move on themselves and clear ideas at the motives of actions fifteen years prior seem absurd. However the more I read here, the more I listen to the stories of others, the greater my confidence grows that truths may yet be found.

Thankyou again to those who take the time to read my words.

J


izettl profile image

izettl 4 years ago from The Great Northwest Author

I recently have thought of the outcome I am hoping for and that is raising awareness- if we can have insight into the trans life and mind and they can have insight into the effects on family, then maybe we can bridge a gap somewhere. partially society's issue and lack of acceptance with some of this is the fact that LGBT people are not even accepted by their friends and family sometimes. This is where it starts then that filters into society.

Also when I originally posted I was hoping somewhere out there someone had a similar experience. Knowing you or we are not alone, puts some of the issues to rest. we've both acknowledged there is a lack of support for those of us in this scenario.

By you adding to this conversation, others will read it and realize the truth in your words. Thank you for your honesty here. Write any time, all the experiences and info out there is better than the junk currently on this subject. I really encourage your insight because I get more trans comments than family members of a trans.


jeanine 4 years ago

If ya'll will just keep the commentary going I will gladly listen... I am sorry that this happened to the both of you... and must say if I had not found Izettl's comments and hubs, it may have happened to my children... and fate they will never know now thanks to Children just like you... again from the bottom of my heart... I am forever grateful...


Smoke and mirrors 4 years ago

Izzetl and Jeanine

It is a strange place I find myself in talking again to people who have shared a similar life experience. To be completely honest I do find some small comfort in the knowledge of some of the shared experiences... I am still at the moment processing exactly why.

Jeanine, I am heartened by your words and I have tried to reflect on why exactly. Perhaps it is that I sense from you a true desire to understand... If so then I can relate... It is all I ever really search for.

I think compromise is a common experience for many of us. Child and parent alike constantly at odds over how best to tackle the next challenge presented to us.

Over time I have started to view my experience as two seperate entities. I spoke previously about the affect of the process being likened to a strong blow and not being in control of the pain receptors... That analogy was true for me many a year ago...

As time has passed I now see that experience as one that has affected my life... However... I do believe that my personal issues, although linked to these initial experiences can also be tackled as seperate issues. To clarify, I have trust issues... I do not need to use the experience as a sole reference point for continuing to grow and develop on this issue.

15 years... Izettl... When I first read that this was a potential period for growth on the subject and time to establish clear reflection it resonated with me... It was around this time... All these years after the event that I finally sought Councelling... Throughout all these years I relied on family, friends and my own reading... Ultimately though one can only go so far by themselves.

I haven't spoke much about my mother here... I thought I might make a reference here to how amazing she has been over these years, even in the face of some absurd challenges. Imagine having a situation where the partner leaves and you become the main support for three teenage boys... One with a disability... Truth be told... He was probably the easiest for my mum to manage.

Communication is perhaps one of the single most important aspects.... Followed straight on with patience. The whole experience was dropped on me... No warning... No pacing... Just bang! Deal with it... And as the first to know it was time before I was able to speak to others. But at least I was told... My father left it to my mother to tell my youngest brother... I don't under any circumstances feel this is reasonable.

I have tried at length to rationalize these issues... I find some of the more sticking points almost impossible to move through. As time has passed I have become kinder to myself in that ultimately taking responsibility for all aspects of this process is not entirely my burden to bare... Ironically this is a sibling trait I hold strongly...

I could write stories here, tell of my transgender parent changing to a woman, picking up a hobby with firearms and later winning best female marksman at a gun club... But I struggle to find how these tales can ultimately be helpful to others. I would feel very confident izettl that your tales could easily rival mine. And in some of these moments I can smile, at the absurdity of some of lifes experiences... A small moment that I claim as mine.

I am aware that life is relative, for others out there exposed to war, famine, prejudice... In many regards we have it easy... However these are my experiences... With common traits shared by others... And for the first time in a long time I am reminded that us children are not alone.

J


Gabby 4 years ago

My own agenda is live and let live. So what if I am read, I take control of the situation and am not ashamed of whom I am. However, the recurring theme is as a post op ts who are no matter how great you pass, tolerated rather than accepted. If you can hang on to your friends, family and career that's a bonus.

Whilst your father may be old, who even me should tell him how to live his life. If he wants to become a she, then go for it.

However, transitioning comes with life long challenges, medication, surgery, no surgery, change of records, and being judged.

I hope that made sense. I do wish him/ her luck in her new self and hope as your father's children you learn to accept him for who he will become a she.


4 years ago

I found out my father had undergone gender reassignment surgery just over 3 years ago. I first read this hub maybe around two years ago after struggling to come to terms with what he had done, but I never found the courage to post, and also because I didn't really know how to put into words how I felt.

My situation is slightly different in that my dad left when I was around 4 years old, between then and 18 not attempt at contact from him or his family were made. After establishing contact with dads family, to begin with they didn't mention how he was living, it was my grandmother who thought I should know. The night she told me I was just devastated, from the day I realised my dad had left I wished for him to come back, every birthday I'd hope for some contact or maybe even a birthday card but there was never anything. I'd dreamt of my 18th birthday, being reunited with the man my mum had said adored me, she never said much about my dad but one thing she was clear about was how much he loved me. But I could never understand how he could leave me if he really did love me as much as my mum had told me.

I just remember being so angry and hurt, how could any parent do this to a child was all I could think, and to this day to an extent I still feel this way. I have read so many comments by people who have gender dysphoria discussing how to tell their children, or when is the best time. Personally there is no such thing as a best time, I would be just as hurt been told 15 years from now.

My father is incredibly selfish about the whole thing, he believes by leaving me and going and starting this new life and cutting me out was what was best for me. Nobody has the right to decide that, it hurts me that I never really knew my dad as a man. The man my mum remembers, the man everybody else remembers but me. I feel cheated, counsellors have told me to grieve for the father I've lost but how is that possible when I didn't even have a chance to get to know him?

He maintains that he's happy with his new life, but I struggle greatly with this. He's still depressed, and he just seems so angry. It makes me angry that he left to start a better life yet he still isn't happy with what he has. I question whether what he has done is the right thing, he has alienated every single member of our family, lives in squalor and hardly leaves the house. I fail to see how he can justify leaving me and my mum for what he has now, in fact it makes me angry knowing that he's lived this way and is no happier than the day he left.

I don't think I will ever be able to one to terms with his choices, I can't ever imagine abandoning my daughter and causing her so much heartache. If he had chosen this life style after I'd left home and was settled with my own life maybe I could accept it. But to me his priority should of been his wife and children, when you bring a child into the world you put them first. my father didn't, he was selfish and put his own desires before us. That I will never forgive him for.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

Gabby, your right, there is never a good time to come out because the issue of someone being transgender brings out a wide range of emotion and usually its bad . Even though there is not a right time, there are better ways and not so better ways and what your dad did by leaving you was the not so good way. Only he knows why he chose that way.


Sara-NtheMiddle profile image

Sara-NtheMiddle 4 years ago from United States

I am still trying to figure out myself why family and friends get so upset about someone they know being transgender. I cant understand why a change of cloths and whats between a persons legs makes any difference as long as they still support their family and friends. I know that it is a little more complicated than that but everyone has a huge issue about it. I can understand your point because your dad ran off and left you but most trans get negative reactions even if they stay and take care of their obligations. That I believe is why so many choose to leave. With a new start even though it is hard at first, you learn to forget the past and dont have to be reminded of it each day by family and friends issues with it. Some like myself no matter how difficult it becomes , will stay by my family and friends if they will have me. I have been called selfish for not staying a man for my son,but at least I am going to be there for him and Though he may still resent me, I was there for him. Best wishes with you and your dad.


4 years ago

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but it is incredibly upsetting. I was very much a daddy's girl before he left, I want that even now. To me it does make a difference, I want a normal family a mum, dad and brother I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting that this situation kills me. Unless you are the child I think it's difficult to understand, my father had me to 'test' a normal life, he knew deep down he wasn't capable of living as a man. Please for a second imagine how that feels, it's almost like a rejection.

Ive met my dad, and asked the questions I've need to and watched him closely. But I cannot accept what he has done, I don't think I will ever be able to address him as 'she' because he regardless of what clothes he wears or the operation he has had to me he will always be my dad and the man I remember as a child. I think it would be easier if he made a convincing women but his nature isn't even slightly feminine, the way he talks and his attitude I just cannot get my head around it.

I hate that both he and his doctors and therapist try and force me to see things from his point of view, it is always my father who is the injured party in these sessions, it's always about his suffering, his pain, his hurt and confusion. I'm just expected to love and accept him because he's had a difficult time, my feelings don't even come into it.

I don't know whether to grieve for the dad I've lost or whether somewhere he's still there some way.


Jeanine 4 years ago

Hi C, he is still there so please don't give up on him... he is just in his euphoric stage right now... some never move beyond this dream but offer many of us do... and you are right, he will always be your dad... also you are right in that no one can feel or tell you what you feel like inside, so don't take that from him or his doctors... they are all enamored with one of our tribe trying to embrace the binary system... we were never meant to embrace it but many of us, because of our lack of history, have tried to be one of you... it will not work... we are two living as one and there is a history that most trans do not know... we are from a sec of spiritual leaders called "Two Spirited" people... interesting that Trans is TS and "Two spirited is "TS... but I digress.. look it up or google it... somehow our real history has been hidden or over looked by all those who would help us... doctors, therapist... I think we have had a terrible thing happen to us in that the medical community has been so enamored with finding a way to heal us, that they have over looked who we really are... we are not women... but men who have a fundamental understanding of women... in history we were the therapist... marriage advisers, shamans, and advisers to Kings... and this is for thousands of years, right up to the twentieth century, we were still known in some of the American indian tribes here in the US. HE is the injured party to the Doctors because he is their experiment, so that's why they are only concerned with his feelings... you must get away and never agree to listen to them again... your dad will final come to his senses but it will be to late for him... because they will have convinced him he is a woman and he will have gone through the operations... you are right in that most Trans continue to act like men... after all we have all been practicing those moves for all of our lives... here's the question I finally had to ask myself after years and years of study and having five different therapist tell me I am a woman inside of this man's body, I asked " if I am a woman, what woman would hurt her children on purpose, not one, in fact I would kill any man who tried to harm my children, including the one I live in according to the doctors" there is no genetic female who ever hurts their child on purpose, unless they are mentally sick or off in some way... you are the victim here not him... he has chosen... but in his defense, he has also run him crazy for all of his life, so being men and being of the "git ur done" tribe we all feel the doctor is telling us the truth. So with that being said we generally just want to get on with our lives... the medical community has led us down the wrong path... because they only deal in facts because they are scientist.. they over looked the spiritual side and that's who we are and why we are made this way... there will come a day when we are place back in a position of prominence and these men who changed to women will be known as the pioneers... when that day does come... we will be welcomed as who we are... and be able to live as ourselves instead of being forced to live as either man or woman... so have pity on your day until he can find at least parts of himself to put back together... we are two living as one... always have been and always will be... praying for you dear... so sorry you have had to suffer this pain... write Izettl here ... her email is here somewhere on her profile... she knows exactly how you are feeling...


Andrea 4 years ago

Hi C and Jeanine....I am a male to female transsexual and it is precisely this type of situation that has made me realise that I should transition prior to even thinking of supporting children through childhood and never, ever consider running away from them whilst they grow - for even if they all disown me I will be there on the end of a phone, should they need me. I do see where Jeanine is coming from, in that trans folks can never fully claim to be a member of their target gender - but gender is a spectrum, and even natal women can have consistent male traits - so why do people transition? People transition to seek to control an ever increasing self-hatred of their sex characteristics, meaning that things like baldness, large hands, a deep voice etc. constantly remind an individual of their gender incongruity. This gender dysphoria can lead people to be extremely self-destructive - I recognised that this is no way to raise a family so I am transitioning before I can emotionally harm any children I get a chance to raise. There will be plenty of people who will disagree with this decision - I, myself, wish things could be different for I would have loved to be a Dad and I cannot fully identify with the role of a Mum - but what would you have me do - live life as an agressive, hate-filled and anxiety ridden male who is "doing the traditional thing" or live as the gender I am comfortable with and be able to offer a rich range of experiences to the next generation? A child needs its parents, yes, and I so wish I could be that attentive Dad that everyone loves - for me, this is doomed to failure due to my gender dysphoria and so instead I am resigned to making the childhoods of any kids I raise the best I can possibly can with the cards I've been dealt. Hope I did not offend and please, please be polite in any responses.


jeanine 4 years ago

Hi Andrea, I understand completely and you were not offensive at all... I think your decision to transition before children is very mature in attitude....most of my displeasure or really disbelief is the the late transitioner who already has chosen a road with a wife and children... to hurt those closest to us is a real problem for me...

I have been fighting this for so long, just as I'm sure you have also...I have found some places, that are just never going to disappear... and that could be the apparent reason that some men go on through with the operation... the actual knowing that it may never cease in it's relentlessness to imprint some gender on these fluid could account for those of us trying just one more thing... to try and fend off the inevitable....most of us appear to be just weary from lifes onslaught of never being either male or female.... as if the imprinting of the male gender has been tried so many times and hasn't taken so to speak...that we finally succumb to any change that might give some relief... it might lend itself in some men or in the heart of two spirits and trans, to believe that they might as well try imprinting the other gender, female in MTF trans or male in the case of female to male trans... these individuals might just as soon try to be one as the other... simply because they could not get the original gender... to stay in place...

as an example ....you can see it in my own life... when I finally find success as a man, or in the tiniest things that are nothing to accomplish for a gendered male... such as cutting the grass or making a business deal seem effortless, the first thing I do is relax in the woman that I believe I am inside... she does seem to have an overwhelming effect on him and she seems to have needs of her own to simply rest and encourage herself. Instead of moving toward the next goal as most gendered males do, she stops him and encourages him just as his mom did when he was just a tiny boy... often the unstable child can hear a sweet voice saying you did good, and in her heart of hearts, she is so glad she could accomplish the task that she actually did it. The rocking back and forth between His effort and her encouragement is the most confusing thing to me... it's as if she already knew how hard the task would be before He... her male side started to try and take on the task... so there is a history that is established early on perhaps that he can not seem to get it right in front of his father... so the father not knowing how sensitive the boy really is... continues down the path of brow beating his most sensitive child into doubt and confusion. Then slowly the boy begins to believe he must be a girl because he couldn't be a boy, because he is nothing like his violent father...

I know in my own life when I was trying to be the he man in my relationship with my wife... I was just like my father in that my anger surfaced often and was out of control... only after she and I started to live more as friends did the anger start to subside... to live more as a lesbian couple might live... although because I am not nor have ever been a lesbian, I don't really have a basis for that behavior either. I still have the same challenge in that if you never have been a woman... how can you think you are one trapped in a male body... there is no foundational thoughts or knowledge to let one know how a woman would actually feel... are we supposed to believe that we are because we are sensitive and only women are this sensitive... this being said, I believe there is a certain type of boy that fits into the budding trans...your most likely candidates would be those boys that were from... aggressive fathers and submissive mothers, say with a side to the mother like she is great at business, like my mom was... so the confusion is not only on the gender side, where it all starts, but also mixed within the other day to day living of a different type of parenting... the norm stereo types do not apply to the boys parents... like my mom was a much better business person than my dad... so if I want to be good at business, I always think of my mom and never my dad... and if there are ever any uncomfortable moments, I only think of my father because he seemed to be carried away by the very stress of the moment... so as a child once you start to pay attention to your own behaviors , it is not long before you choose the one that is the calm response... which would in my case be... my mom ... or the woman...

I am interested in how we get here, and I believe in my own case it was that I had a very aggressive father, but he was non aggressive in business and was uneducated, so as I grew older, all the things that I wanted to be, even in business were given to me from my mother... my dad although a hard worker, didn't have the education to know what to work on really... so he eventually ended up working for my mom in a predominantly womens led business....He was a hairdresser... as my mom had become one some years before and had surpassed him in making money... after he had settled into being one though, he was a great worker... but as you can see, there was a very different way for me to grow up... all this while, my mom was still the consumate fifties woman... she was just not a housewife really... he ended up doing the majority of the domestic stuff although she was never dominate in making him do it... I say all of this Andrea to encourage you to do what you know to do...


childofmadness 3 years ago

o have a fath in his 50's who also had a sex change, and iI have beenlooking for years for a suppoSupportroup for adult children ffof parents who had sexual reassignment surgery. There are no such support groups that I could find, but it is amazing how similar our stories are. I would love to just meet another adult, other than my siblings, who has. Been through many of the same unique challenges I have been through. I will sign back in when ni have more time to tell a little more of my story, and since I just created this account, maybe I will start my own thread!


childofmadness 3 years ago

I just got a new touch screen tablet, I appologize about all of my spelling errors above!!! I am mortified!!


Anon 3 years ago

I don't mean to offend anyone by this post, I just wanted to share my story as mine is different to most of what I have read out there. In a lot of these stories people have happy endings, parents staying together, and everything seeming more normal and accepted.

I have read all the posts and blogs where its all about 'how tough it is for the person undergoing the transition' but there is nothing really out there about how this affects the children. Psychologists often talk about how you should be accepting to whats happening and be open to it. But realistically that will never happen.

I am a 25 years old male and I have grown up with a transgender father since I was 14. I talk about my father, who underwent reconstructive surgery to fully become a female, still using male terms, because I still see him as a male, and will do so forever. Who he has now become is not the father I knew and want to remember.

I read through this and have had similar feelings. Especially the feeling of being alone in the world. My parents divorced when I was about 10 years old, and I lived with my mother, although I did see my dad every weekend. But I did start to notice things were becoming different, Then when I was about 14 my dad came to tell me and my older brother (16) that he was going through a transition to become transgender. At the time I had a younger sister (11) and younger brother (9) who were not told until a later stage. So I was left at 14 years old with a huge secret and no one to talk to about any of it, nor understand what was going on. Its not a conversation that anyone that age can really have. I couldn't talk to my older brother, or mother, or anyone.

It was about then I started to distance myself from not only my father, but also the rest of my family. I would spend a lot of time at friends places, in and out of my house, playing lots of sports and doing anything I could to keep my mind off of everything that was going on with my father.

I never stopped keeping in touch with my father. I would see him but each time I went it became harder and harder. So what began as weekly visits became rare occasions. I managed to play soccer on the weekends and got into representative soccer so I played on both Saturdays and Sundays, so I could avoid going to see him. It was just the hardest thing to cope with as a child, 14 years old and no one to talk to and feeling so alone.

I spent the rest of my high school years avoiding topics with friends around transgenders, or feeling uncomfortable when someone mentioned a transgender, or made a joke about a transgender. No one knows about my father being a transgender. If people would ask how he was doing, I would hardly reply, or change the topic. And I still do this now.

I finished university and went to the other side of world. I tell myself that it is because I wanted to travel, but I know deep down that I am still running away. I can form a relationship with a girl, but doubt I can ever explain this situation to her. Its just something that I can not accept, let alone explain to someone else.

Added to which I have had more come up in my already challenging life. This year my mother came out as a lesbian, my younger brother gay, and my older brother bisexual. So it seems even more has been added to my already interesting life. Nothing much seems to surprise me anymore. I think how that these changes in my families life may have been affected by having a transgender father. I don't say I blame him, rather just think would things have been any different if he was not transgender. I also think about going home, then I think how I can't.

I have left all my friends back home to start a new life. Something that I feel that I can cope with. With little connection to what was, I think that it has given me a chance to begin to come to grips with the path that my family follows. Being left at 14 to try accept something like this is hard. Everyone says that you should 'talk to someone' but I know as a 14 year old there is no chance whatsoever of speaking to someone about something like this. You don't want to speak to your parents, friends, family, anyone. You just want to forget and believe that everything will be ok, and it will all disappear somehow. But it doesn't so here I am running away from everything, and its hard to think, this is the happiest I have been in a long time.

Everyone deals with different situations in different ways. And this is how I came to deal with it. I know people will say 'running away doesn't solve anything', but to those people, I say that you are wrong. Running away is the best thing I have done. To put everything aside and live the most normal life I can. I have had no negative thoughts about what I have done. And as I said, I am happier than ever.

I still keep in touch with my family, I will email them every so often. But that is about it. The less I keep in touch the more I forget about what is going on with the rest of my family, and I can focus on what I need to do, and how I feel.

So how I feel right now is like this. I know this sounds harsh but my father will never be my father, he died when the transition began. I gained an auntie that I don't want to see or want to speak with. Life is very lonely because I never want to get too close to anyone, in case they ask questions about my life. I have been told that its hard for a transgendered person, but if you have children then become transgendered then you imediatly push them away. I have a real sense of being unwanted, a mistake, something that was based on a lie. I was conceived as a lie, a cover for what my father has been feeling all his life. This is something that can never be forgiven.

This is just my perspective of the my life as someone who has a transgender parent. It may not have such a happy ending as other things out there. But it still needs to be heard, because we cant go around thinking that we live in a fairytale world. The truth hurts, but this is something that may happen.


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