At the risk of being bashed and stepped on here in the forums. I am curious as to why we spend our energy on discriminating and and opposing homosexuality.
I am straight and I don't care if you are gay. However, many straight people seem almost obsessed with this. They make it an issue and I don;t understand it. I need to understand the obsession with it. It may seem as if I am wasting my time, but I like understanding people and I would like to understand this.
I am interested in this question as well. I'm a lesbian and an atheist, and from my experience religious people (mostly) condemn homosexuality behavior because their chosen Holy book says (according to their interpretation) that it's wrong.
Socially and psychologically speaking, people fear or discriminate against this that they either don't understand or don't agree with. In other words, a lot of straight people can't possibly imagine being in a gay relationship, so they find it "icky". I have never met a straight person who can definitively tell me when they chose to be straight, but they have no qualms in telling me that I chose to be gay. You can't choose who you're attracted to. You can't force yourself to be attracted to someone that you're not.
Religiously speaking, in the United States at least, a religious group is not supposed to be able to force their views of morality on everyone by making their beliefs into laws, but they have. It's changing now, and they don't like it - while still maintaining the double standard that they should be allowed to enforce their morality and beliefs onto others.
Why homosexuality has become such a big issue instead of poverty, peace, homelessness, homeless children, food, etc is beyond me. There are much more important issues out there that do not involve what me and my wife do in the privacy of our own home.
You make a good point about the real issues of this world. The Christian (I am one) tend to chastise gay people because they say it's sin but there are sin that harm people and I don't see they hitting out against these atrocities.
I think it's hypocritical to bash homosexuality because it harms no one. However, pedophilia, rape, incest, spousal abuse, child abuse and murder harm the society.
You won't be bashed. SAY IT LOUD. There are so many people who are against the LBGT community for the same or similar reasons that there are people who are against childfree and 1-child families. They see the LBGT people as "abnormal", even "perverse" in their lifestyle. They strongly contend that the LBGT people are "a threat" to the "natural" and "preordained" order of things. In such people's purview, the LBGT community is beyond what they deem societally acceptable in terms of relationships. They see a relationships as between that of opposite genders, not of same genders.
Cardisa, people are deathly afraid of the different whether it is family or relationsihps. The same goes for childfree and 1-child families. Many people are threatened by this because in their purview, families include childREN. They strongly assert that it is CHILDREN that makes a family. They also view families as couples with TWO or MORE children so they view childfree and 1-child families as totally "inauthentic". This is the way that many people view the LBGT community, they view such people as inauthentic in terms of their sexuality in addition to being abnormal. To them, the LBGT community is the other and the outgroup.
I think it is a pride thing...... the only example I am able to give is a club here in Sacramento that is a gay club but it has every different sexual orientation there to have fun. Every time a male goes with us they go through a faze of, "I am ok with being here, as long as they know I am not gay." It is like a complex..... they are so scared to adapt to change or just accept the fact that people are now open minded. Needless to say, we had to leave the club because he was uncomfortable seeing the male dancer in a G string lol.
I believe for some people it's a religious thing where they've "cherry picked" it as sin even though themselves commit various sins according to their own dogma. For others I believe they are afraid that somehow if it became acceptable eventually they will be "outnumbered" or they fear their children will "choose" being gay/lesbian as their lifestyle.
Personally speaking I don't recall the day I "chose to become straight".
Most fears people have are irrational. People who have a different sexual orientation are not competing for the same mates!
There are over 7 Billion people on the planet! There is no shortage of opportunities for any of us to find what we're looking for. Who my neighbor dates or marries has no bearing on my relationship choices.
I have this doubt myself... but I tend to think people are always fascinated to what they don't understand and they usually fear it - exactly because it is not "understandable" to them. Those who discriminate don't understand homosexuality - and they don't seem interested in making an effort to understand it also.
I think it is a very small minority of straight people who are obsessed with homosexuality. It is just that we often only hear from people who are adamantly against it based on whatever their reasons are. Those who have no problem with what others do are rarely heard from. To understand an obsession, one would have to look closely at the individual voicing strong opinions to see where they are coming from - and that is true in regards to just about any topic.
Some people are simply insecure about their sexuality, as if knowing that the possibility of homosexuality exists means they'll be forced to go out and participate in the 'festivities,' if you will.
1. They just don't like it and think everyone should be like them.
2. They think it's a sin.
3. It makes them uncomfortable.
4. It scares them
5. They think that it means the person is perverted
Just a few reasons. None of which are valid in my opinion.
Many religions discrimminate against homosexualtiy, as taught by the church. Because of this, they aren't exposed enough to homosexuals and their lifestyle.
If everything were open and they would see it, they would learn not to be shocked by it. Furthermore, they need to rethink their tolerance level.
People have to expose themselves to many types of friends, including gay friends. Also, it's really wrong to judge. Live your life as best you can, spiritually. How other people live is between the and God, and perhaps God may be the kinder judge than you.
I don't think it's straight people that are obsessed, but right wing Christians and Muslims.
You know, Cardisa, I wonder about this all the time. I think that people are far too obsessed with sexuality in general, which, at the end of the day is something entirely individual and, IMO, private! Years ago, my mother told me something that has served me well over the years: sex is not a spectator sport. I haven't a need, nor any desire, to see, hear, or pass judgment on what consenting adults choose to do to physically express their biological urges. For the ones who engage in sexual activity as a means if bonding with their partner, I say kudos! I don't say, can I watch? How do you do it? Why do you choose that partner? Can I join in? Can you do it in a way that doesn't offend me? I don't care. For those who choose to engage in sexual activity for recreational purposes-have at it. NOT my business.
I don't want someone telling me what to do in my bedroom, and I don't give a flying fig what they choose to do in theirs. I also don't care WHO they choose to do it with...unless they choose MY husband, in which case, I will indeed have something to say!
Random thoughts a little (but only a little) off topic:
Not a spectator sport? Ever hear the term "eye candy"? Most definitely a spectator sport. Ever hear "people watching", which definitely includes looking for/at sexy individuals?
Sex sells; a well known, understood and used adage. You find sex all over the advertising world, and that absolutely includes women's fashion. A great deal of clothing is designed and constructed to promote sexuality, from what is exposed to what is not. Women in particular use fashion to advertise themselves as sexual beings and enjoy the attention from spectators.
Which could have something to do with why people are obsessed with sexuality in general; it is everywhere around them. On billboards, on signs and obvious in the very cloth adorning other people. Add in that homosexuality is foreign to the large majority of people and you have an obsession with homosexuality as a subset of obsession with sexuality.
I don't disagree with any of that. That's exactly what I meant when I said that we are obsessed with sexuality in general. It has become a spectator sport for so many of us, but it is NOT, and was never meant to BE, one.
Disagree. If that were true sex would hardly happen at all, or perhaps like many animals when pheromones do all the attracting and there is very little of "choice" in the matter.
Instead the human animal finds beauty as well as sexual attraction, and even the attraction is vastly different person to person. That much of that attraction is visual instead of olfactory or auditory is not a bad thing. The sexuality, if not the sex act itself, is indeed a spectator sport and we all find fun in it (ever flirt with someone just with your eyes?).
I think maybe I'm not being clear. I'm not saying that sex isn't a visual thing. People enjoy the sight of their beloved naked, for example. We are attracted to people who meet our personal standards of beauty. The beginning of desire often comes from visual stimuli. I am not arguing at all that this is untrue. What I'm saying is that the sexual act itself is not meant to be observed, nor participated in, by anyone except for those engaged in it.
Well, I don't know about the "meant" part, but I don't make a very good voyeur, either. Or even watch video porn for that matter, although I know it is extremely common. And I most definitely do NOT appreciate people having sex in public; if you cannot be private with it, don't do it.
Homosexuality is not about sex but rather sexuality. Same goes for heterosexuality. Whatever one's persuasion should be private or personal. No one berates me because I am straight. No one thinks that being straight is a choice, so why being gay is a choice?
I fail to understand the way some Christians think. What are they trying to accomplish by discriminating against the homosexual?
Most people feel that being straight is the normal, natural way to be. Therefore, along this reasoning, they assume that if you are not straight, something went wrong, or (in the case of someone who holds a religious belief) that you are giving into a sin or an evil impulse.
That's typically how it's describe to me by said persons.
I agree completely...my point is that someone else's sexuality is NOT my or anyone else's business. Sadly, it's not just Christians and other religious who mistreat homosexuals.
Yes, it's not only the gays Christians are concerned with. Even heterosexual sex is a problem. I published a Christian based novella on Amazon a few months ago and at the end, after the couple got married I added their wedding night. Of course the night was about sex but not very explicit. I thought it was tastefully done but I got a lot of negative reviews from the Christian readers. Why are Christians hung upon sex?
Only God knows the answer to that question...lol
Because they forget that according to their Holy Book it was God's idea in the first place.
It was one of his first commandments, as a matter of fact. "Be fruitful and multiply." Which, decoded into modern language means, [sorry] "Go have sex and make babies."
I just think it's lack of information.
I read a study about rodents and over crowding, and how they've observed in a laboratory setting (I'll look for the link) that when there are not enough resources (food, space, etc) the rodents start exhibiting same sex reproductive behavior: presumably to prevent more offspring from being produced so that the species could survive (rather than starving).
For the record, I'm straight AND I grew up attending church, but I don't think we can ignore the science behind this issue.
Here's a link that supports brain based differences between gay and straight:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … brain.html
Let's drop the bigotry once and for all, you guys. We are all equal.
Got no issue with gay people but i still get disgusted when 2 guys kiss, may with time i will get used to it and i really hate to explain to my daughter why those 2 men are kissing like husband and wife they are both boys. and she asks a lot. the world is evolving next time a relationship because man and an animal will be looked at as normal.
I agree it is a bad influence on your daughter I hope she doesn't get the wrong idea as a start asking if it's okay for them to do that and plus you know that's how all of these are passed around because middle doing man is not supposed to be done like that's what you Man of woman and man wanted all is well I don't know what to say about that but I hope things go well for you and your daughter god bless
You do know that's very offensive and really hurts peoples feelings, right? It makes people feel like what they are doing is wrong and that they are disgusting. Why is a form of love that is different from yours disgusting?
@Moiponetsoka, your statement is contradicting. You have no problem with gay people but you're disgusted when two men kiss. That's what gay people do, they kiss, make love, hold hands so that shouldn't bother you either. You do have an underlying resentment towards gay men, that's why seeing them kiss bothers you.
"Because they love each other."
The explanation really could not be more simple.
As for the man and animal comparison, please take a step back and think really hard about whether it's accurate to compare a relationship between two consenting humans and a relationship between one consenting human and an animal from an entirely different species who isn't even capable of consent... on account of that whole "different species" thing.
As for the comments in other posts about why gays are so "loud," it's for the same reason those pesky women have been so loud in the past. Fighting for equal rights kind of requires a lot of attention and yelling because it's a fight. I'm sure we would all much prefer if we lived in a world where everyone was quietly and easily awarded the same rights and freedoms, but we don't. So people make a big deal of it and THANK GOODNESS that they do, or nothing would ever change.
Straight male here, and I understand what you're saying about a lot of straight people focusing on gay people and their respective relationships, but there are also a great deal of gay folks in the world that focus on their own sexuality more than normal as well. I'm all for equality and the celebration of it, but when so much focus is placed on it by their own community how can others not be focused on it? Obviously the negative aspect and people discriminating against the gay community is unwarranted regardless of how much attention they bring to themselves, nonetheless it is a lot of attention. On the flip-side I do see where a lot of straight people are to blame for this because if there wasn't so much persecution of the gay community in the past and even still the present, maybe gay folks wouldn't feel the need to celebrate and bring so much attention to their sexual orientation. Either way the gay community doesn't deserve to be treated poorly simply because of who they prefer to share a bed with.
Hello Cardisa my friend !
You know , I truly believe ninety percent of straight people don't even care about gays ! I don't , I'm a Christian although not the best one , and I believe that those who scream the most about the discriminating public are simply grandstanding to promote some personal cause . I would ask you this , If only about 13% of people are gay why do they command so much of the airwaves , so to speak ? I always though of it this way , What would I do if my daughter or brother came to me and said "I'm gay " . ......Oh I know ...... " I love you anyways !"
Ahorseback, all the people around me seem to have a problem with homosexuality. Trust me, there is an insane obsession.
I believe the gay population always feel like we don't want them out of the closet, so to speak, and they come from all side making their presence felt.
I agree with ahorseback
I don't think about it either
I love my gay friends
The bible says it's wrong, but it's not my place to get in people's face about it.
What I will say though, is it's ridiculous and wrong for gay people to try and force Christian ministers to marry them, or anyone who doesn't agree to marry them. Live and let live. Don't try to force others to agree.
Gays don't have to be Christian to marry. They can be merry anytime, their GAY!!!
Kidding, gays can be married by the justice of the peace, anyone againist that.
You know what puzzles me, for a country that wants to be pro gay, why are they making fun of Bruce Jenner for becoming a woman?
Guess that's TMZ for ya.
But really, ........I wouldn't make fun of him.
If I was going to comment....I would say it's interesting.
Transgendered people still have the longest way to go for acceptance, unfortunately. They receive the most hate crimes out of any group. I'll never understand why anyone cares what gender someone else identifies as. In the same way that I don't understand why anyone cares what sexual activities go on between consenting adults.
Wonder if a person was an atheist/polygamist/gay/pot smoking and sometimes cheats on his taxes.
Would thato earn him an express ticket to HELL?
I don't think you needed to add anything after "atheist." That's usually sufficient on its own.
It's meanness just like people like to pick on overweight people. Human immaturity!
Oh bugger, am about to get in big twubble.
From living in one of the largest metropolis in the world, New York City, for nearly a decade and another decade in San Francisco, have met, befriended, hired/fired, worked with sexually active people in all forms -and by all forms mean all forms. You name the sexual preference, I probably have known a person who has it.
With the case of generalized homo-sexuality, male-male, femme-femme, trans-male, trans-femme versus straight-sexuality, the issue always is the same, among the unbiased at least: sexuality is a private matter. So, when pushed by socio-economic, socio-political, socio-theological means, the normal straight person feels violated in their right of privacy and to not have to be a viewer of anothers sexual preference.
Honestly, I believe that is the real issue. It isn't sexual-phobia for them, it is the feeling of, "Keep your sexuality to yourself". Because, generally, by bringing sexuality into the public eye one is infringing on the rights of another and imposing their perspective regardless of anothers perspective or choice.
The alter argument is often, "If you don't like it, don't watch it", which is correct. However, with today's technology via internet, television, news-print, etc is nearly impossible not to view, hear or be affected by sexuality in some form or another -from scantily dressed models on billboard's to femme-femme couples smooching on magazine covers. So, as with anything of constant in-your-face, obsessions pro and con come into view and often spin out of control. In fact, because of sexual obsession, the multi-gender courtesan industry -and more recently- the porn industry- has grow to heights unimaginable. Humans are obsessed with sex pro or con.
You speak of the "in your face' nature of things relating to sexuality. I realise you did not specifically single out homosexuality for being "in your face" (my words, but what I gathered from your message), but I feel that something must be said about it.
When heterosexuality is looked at from the point of view of a homosexual (particularly one who is still closeted), it is VERY MUCH 'in your face" - it is ALL around us, but has been so 'in your face' for so long, that we have become immune to even noticing it anymore.
Homosexuality isn't any more in your face than any other sexuality, it's just more.....new....to most people seeing affection in public.
My holding of my SS wife's hand, or giving her a kiss (peck) in public is seen as "pushing my sexuality" on to other people. Yet, a heterosexual couple literally 'sucking face" is seen as .....nothing. When my holding of my wifes hand is looked at in the same light as those who display affection towards their opposite gendered partner - then we have equality.
Until then, we just have double standards
(please understand that this is not directed at you personally, but more at the school of thought that thinks that homosexuals are pushing their sexuality on people)
I belong to a gay masters swim team for two years. I was the only straight guy in the club. Not at anytime I saw anyone touching each other as much as straight people do. If ever I get framed and go to prison, could be tough enough to stay straight there too. Have a nice day, for any homophopics out there.
You are so right. Everyone has the ability to turn their head and not look. Hi I'm Anita and new to blogging.
Hi Anita. Welcome to Hubpages. Thanks for your reply. And thats exactly right - we can turn away, and I do when it's a couple (regardless of gender mix actually...OTT PDA grosses me out) 'sucking face' in public.
But I'm not going to if someone is holding hands with their significant other - however, in my case (and for many other homosexuals) - it would be seen as "pushing my sexuality" and we could be targetted for abuse - verbal and physical because of it (and it's that which is the reason my wife won't hold hands in public....)
Hi understand what you are saying. I'm in the life myself and in my late fifties. I've seen abuse and we've come along way. My atitutude is if they can do it so can I.
Thats very true. I'm much the same - "It takes too much energy to give a sh** about other people's opinions on me and mine" is my motto for life.
We have come a long way, but given some of the the anti-gay violence out there....not quite far enough.
Perhaps like everything else , people are obsessed with something , all things , anything , because of their own identifying insecurities ! There is far, far too much obsession in other peoples business . No matter what it is , my friend Cardisa , I might try an experiment . . Make any statement , make any point at all , especially here on forums . Watch what happens - someone is either going to be offended , angered , insulted , harassed or otherwise "put out "...
I suppose I have been guilty of it too , after all its all about our individual human natures , and human nature on a very personal level is about how one acts or re-acts to something of our choosing !
God Cardisa ! , are we all that simple ?
Love ya !
I do believe however that a few people can make a hell of a lot of noise about an issue , I believe gays can and do , do that very well ! Personally , I don't care what they want or do- within the laws , The only issue I've had with gay people is the marriage issue , I once believed that longevity in marriage showed the real character and sanctimony of the institution . now , I feel it's become one more of the indicators of the real issue , the decline in the values of our modern culture !
Not that gays are responsible for that , they are just one more entity in the aura of overall moral decline. In this I mean that for maybe 10% percent of a population and maybe 1 percent of them in marriages, why were they able to change such an iconic historical institution ? P.C. perhaps ?
Maybe because it isn't so "iconic" at all? Gay love is nothing new - historically it is quite common. While it is very true that the Christian church put a massive damper on it in recent centuries it survived even that - as Christianity grows and develops morally it seems natural that formalizing it with paper is the next step.
It's all about beliefs. When people believe something strongly they will talk about it, oppose it, fight for it, and never EVER let the discussion stop because they want to make sure their beliefs are heard and respected.
Either way guys , It's here to stay ............or at least until gay people decide that divorcing themselves from the antiquated institution of marriage is the new fad ! ......I give it ten years !
Putting God aside for a moment, why does anyone want to be homosexual? Biologically, we can't. There is no purpose to mate with the same sex...
I think homosexuality is a choice, personally. I'm heterosexual, but not homophobic whatsoever. I enjoy touching and being physical with all sexes. I believe there should be a boundary with how much you "get along" with the same sex. I'm just saying this mostly on a biological perspective. On the other hand, opposite sexes must be together to reproduce.
I still want to deeply understand the reasons and logic for wanting to be gay. I'm extremely interested in that way of thinking. I will be analyzing your answer, and hypothetically if I have a better argument, I still believe it won't matter. I just want to understand, that's the point. I'll make the conclusion on my own !
Why? Why do you think it is a choice? The only psychologists that agree with you are those affirming their religious beliefs - what other reason is there?
Homosexuality is obviously not about reproduction, but then neither is 999 out of 1000 heterosexual acts. As far as "wanting" to be gay - the only reason I can come up with is to match the "me" to the body it is in. The body (chemistry, brain reaction, etc.) are all gay - that would be a reason to want to be gay. The transgenders all confirm this; a massive desire to match the ego (self, me, soul, mind - call it what you will) to the body.
Of course, that means that few heterosexuals would want to be gay, and that is exactly what we see. On the other hand I could quite see a gay person wanting to be straight - to fit better into society. The two wants are incompatible, and being "true to ones self" usually wins out, but not always. And the ones that don't accept that they are what they are, living a lie, never seem to be happy about it.
wilderness, it isn't about my religious affirmations. I'm not religious. It's not ONLY about reproduction. I want to understand what else it's about on a homosexual's perspective. I have my theories but I'd rather get a clearer picture.
Yes, there are some who want to "fit in" and not be gay. I think it's a choice because you can still consciously pick who you want to be with. It just doesn't FEEL right... Homosexuals feel they will not be happy being with someone of the opposite sex. Why is that?
Don't forget that in the past, being a homosexual, according to the DSM (Manual of official psychological disorders) was a disorder.
I think it has to do with a sense of familiarity, and emotional safety. It's an experimentation, really. Human beings are conditioned to be attracted to the opposite sex. When things go bad, and people notice a consistency with that, they start questioning what they learned. A look for a "new" spark. I feel it's a matter of self-discipline and self-esteem.
I'd still prefer a homosexual's point of view, but that's how I feel.
Phil, did you choose to be heterosexual? Did you make a conscious decision to be with someone of the opposite sex? Did you have a choice to be with someone of the same sex and decided to be with the of opposite sex?
As for me it was naturally so. I never even thought about it. I just was heterosexual by nature. If you can tell me that you CHOSE to be heterosexual and it was never your nature to be so, then and only then will I believe that being homosexual is a choice.
I didn't consciously think about it. It was a feeling. As humans, we always have a choice. I could choose to be with someone of the same sex whenever I want. It is and will always be my decision...
Unconsciously, however, our brain has a way of determining what we want which leads to how happy we want to be which is akin to our intellect. The more we know, the more potential we have of getting what we want to make us happy.
Your conscious part of you does play a role. I refuse to believe I "naturally" decided to be heterosexual. It's deeper than that. It plays a role because you make analytical observations while you're young. As a youth, you process information the quickest compared to any age of your life. Scientists proved that. Most people don't realize their sexuality until Middle School or High School.
Anyone can fall in love with anyone, That's the main goal with people. Except with homosexuals, besides falling in love, what else are the trying to accomplish? What is their point? I feel homosexuals are missing something either in their brains, or externally. I don't know.
There is no thing as "naturally decided", that makes no sense to me.
Have you ever been in love with someone of the same sex? Have you ever been attracted to someone of the same sex?
Don't you think it's offensive to think that someone who is homosexual is missing something in their brain? Why would you believe that?
I don't like being offensive, and I don't try to be. I'm not even intending on "attacking" what you think, to be honest. I just look to understand and find the truth and logic in the most sincerest way possible.
I've never been in love. I have been attracted to someone of the same sex. Either for their personality or for their physical appearance. I do, from time to time, mention to myself how good looking some men I see are. But it's more of a jealousy thing, although I don't like admitting that haha.
If it's offensive to someone who is homosexual then I apologize. But if that's the reason then, I don't see the problem, therefore I say it. I'm just straightforward and blunt, that's all. I'm insensitive because I look for the more important cause. Which makes me sound very selfish and inconsiderate. I realize all this, but if people knew what my reasons were they wouldn't be so offended.
For someone who made a hub about the brain, Cardisa, I'm surprised you don't believe there can be imbalances causing the brain to "act" different. As humans, we all want to learn, that's why I mentioned earlier that, homosexuals are in a process of experimentation. How long they take depends on the person but people are all the same deep down. What could homosexuals find/prefer in the same sex than a person of the opposite sex? I don't think it's a problem with other people, it's a problem with themselves. Homosexuality is just an example since we're on this topic, but it applies for everything!
Interesting that you chose the words "missing" instead of "different." If you really didn't have any issue with homosexuals then you probably wouldn't have implied that they're somehow inferior or troubled.
I doubt most people would choose to make themselves a minority that is very much discriminated against. I don't choose who I'm attracted to, it comes down to a multitude of factors, and ultimately my sexual orientation which I did not actively choose. Saying that it's a choice sort of implies that a homosexual would be equally as happy with a person of the opposite sex but chooses to be with someone of the same sex for some superficial reason. Would you be as equally happy with someone of the same sex? If that became the norm, would you have an easy time completely switching your sexual orientation?
As for homosexuality being in the DSM, you said yourself that it used to be. That's a pretty important distinction, don't you think? We used to be able to ride in cars without seatbelts and cigarettes were physician approved - but thankfully as time goes on and we actually research things, we learn and come to know better.
I used missing instead of different because "different" is too vague. Obviously, homosexuals are different from heterosexuals, just like religious people are different from non-religious people. I didn't imply any inferiority of homosexuals. If they don't feel they are troubled, then they aren't.
Yes, you still choose. If you're comfortable and confident with your sexuality, you won't care if you're discriminated. That's why I said it might be a self-esteem issue, too. Again, I don't want to offend you, Aime or anyone else, please remember that...
Hypothetically, if I wanted to be with someone of the same sex and knew and understood why, then yes. I wouldn't have any problems. Or else I wouldn't be with anyone of the same sex because logically, I'd be uncomfortable for whatever reason. I am actually implying that...But I don't entirely understand it so I'm hoping you can educate me Aime (I'm not being sarcastic).
I can't decide if I'd be happier with someone of the same sex. I could only know if that's what I knew would make me happier. And I don't know so I won't answer that, unfortunately.
On Facebook, most of my Facebook "friends" aren't interested in deep, intellectual, insightful conversations. I am. I'm different from the norm, I get insulted, ignored, and all that stuff, do I like that? No. But that's on a general level. I understand some things that help me feel welcome, that's it's ok to be what I like. I made that choice, because of my confidence and self-esteem. That's just my personal example.
The point of my example is to show you that I need to understand things first, decide later. I have to actively try to understand why the norm thinks a certain way and if it's beneficial, I'll "switch sides." I'm obviously not the smartest fish in the sea, I know that, but I want to know what other know so I can be as knowledgeable as I can be.
Right, I agree with you concerning the DSM. However, I believe that psychologist and psychiatrists had some understanding of homosexuality which made them decide that there was something "different" about homosexuals. Homosexuality was a disorder from the 1980's so it wasn't that long ago.
Aime, personally, why do you believe there is nothing wrong with you? Sensitivity aside, if you care to share, can you explain to me your experiences and why you're attracted to the same sex? I'm awfully curious!
Sorry, I'm not gay (though I'm not entirely straight, either, I fall somewhere in the very large between). I don't think someone's sexuality implies all that much about their overall mental health (except for cases of pedophilia, rape, etc.). Basically, if you have a satisfactory sex life with another consenting adult, I have no grounds to believe that there's anything wrong with you. Sexual preferences are so, so varied that I don't think anyone is really qualified to say "this is normal and this is not." Yes, most people are heterosexuals, but does that mean that anyone who's not a heterosexual has something wrong with them? I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that. I think you can be different without being abnormal or faulty.
The reason it was in the DSM was largely due to the social circumstances at the time. There was a huge stigma surrounding homosexuality and it was considered by a vast majority to be defiant, sinful, etc. There was very little dependable research put into it back then. There were also several high-profile psychologists (non-religious psychologists, I might add...) who completely disagreed that homosexuality was a pathology.
Homosexuality was actually technically removed over 40 years ago, you're talking about ego-dystonic homosexuality which was basically a fancy way of saying that homosexuals who suffered distress because of their sexual orientation did so because they were pathological. It was decided that there didn't need to be a specific subset for homosexuals, and that there was a very real chance that the distress was a result of external influences, so it was removed not long after (and rightfully so).
You make a very good point with your first paragraph, I won't argue against what you said there.
I can't say if homosexuality is pathological or not. I really have no information or evidence to know if it is...That's probably true that there was little research being done on homosexuality. It was taboo at that time.
I see, I actually didn't know there were different subsets for homosexuality. I do agree that the distress comes from externally. Do you personally believe homosexuality is pathological?
Also, can you give me your opinion why you believe homosexuality is not a choice?
I don't think that homosexuality is a pathology any more than heterosexuality is a pathology and I don't that homosexuality is a choice any more than heterosexuality is a choice. I doubt most heterosexuals would say they chose to be attracted to the opposite sex, so I'm not sure why they assume homosexuals made the choice. They're two sides of the same coin.
Someone once told me that he was part of a therapy group of homosexual men who had been sexually abused by other men when they were children.
The men in the group all shared a common belief that they had become homosexual either partly or entirely because of those experiences and wanted to change their preferences.
My point is that something like homosexuality is far more complex than just a single factor. It's a combination of choice, genetics and experience.
Promisem, I would be concerned to know the background of that "therapy group."
Was it a totally unbiased group? Did it have an ulterior agenda, maybe stemming from a religious bias? Not wishing to detract from the needs of members of that group for their personal healing, it is not unknown for such groups to lean and steer members into a particular attitude towards their traumatic experience.
Without knowing the details, we cannot presume anything or assume that the members of the group became homosexual as a result of the sexual abuse. I would suggest it's most unlikely. They might be sexually "screwed up," sure, and suffering low self-esteem, unable to express themselves in love and intimate relationships. These are not the exclusive characteristics of homosexuality.
Unless you can tell me when you consciously chose to be heterosexual, you can't make the claim that homosexuals make that choice. If sexuality is a choice, it would be that way for all - so if you can't make yourself attracted to the same gender, what makes you think gay people could make themselves attracted to te opposite?
As a gay woman, I've never been attracted to the opposite sex....ever. Yes, I can appreciate a good looking man as much as the next person, but I'm not attracted to them. The hot girl next to them....a whole lot more likely. Just as you could find someone of your gender good looking, but you wouldn't want to sleep with them.
Just because it isn't natural to you doesn't mean it not natural. It's not natural for me to be attracted to the opposite sex.
The only choice in the matter of sexuality is to accept who you are, or not. If you didn't chose to be straight, why assume I chose to be gay?
jlpark, I have consciously chosen, I chose to be with women rather than men. Ever since I was about 10, I felt an attraction for a girl. Of course I had this feeling to be attracted to a girl, and yes, I didn't understand why... I was uncomfortable being around women, men were easy to be around because I had a general understanding of them. I've had homosexual experiences before because I was bi-curious at one point in my life. I love a challenge and feeling stimulated so being around women, understanding women was my goal, it was my driving force and it still is! We do choose based on our personality. For you jlpark, why have you been attracted to other women?
Sorry - got sidetracked with stuff in my family.
I've always been attracted to women, never to men for anything other than friends and even then, I have a reasonably small group of male friends (aside from my female friend's husbands as well).
Attraction isn't chosen. Gay people are attracted to the same sex, straight people to the opposite, and bisexuals to both same and opposite, pansexuals to people rather than gender or gender expression. However, you would also know that just because you are attracted to women, you aren't attracted to all of them. There are things that you find in one person that attracts you for some reason, that another person doesn't have despite being the gender you are usually attracted to.
I just know, romatically, I prefer the company and affections of women (or...in my case, as a married monogamous gay woman - the company and affections of A woman). I have had boyfriends as a teenager, when I was figuring out myself, and it just didn't feel right when we got closer. I literally felt physically ill. And not just the one guy. YET, it was NOT the same when I was with a female partner.
For me - there was no choice in the gender of whom I was attracted to. If there was for you, thats fine - its just not that way for everyone.
Right. I've met many heterosexual women who claim to be lesbian and are in monogamous relationships with women, namely, their friends from high school. You've experimented with other men, based on your own personal reasoning and that reasoning made sense which led you to have a attitude and that attitude led to action. All of those that have been your choice. You then didn't feel comfortable after being with men at a certain part of the relationship, and then decided men weren't for you. Again, another choice you made based on a feeling, an attitude and action, respectively. It's objective.
Multitasking - it isn't quite the same, however I bring up this example because it's making two choices at the same time. Except it isn't really...our brains switch what we focus on at incredible speeds and makes it an illusion. My point is the choice you make even though you don't consciously notice is always there. My brain whether it was unconscious or conscious made a choice. Everything is made up of choices, some in our control others, not so much.
I'm sorry jlpark, I was under the presumption you were a male. I apologize.
Please excuse me interrupting here, but how does all of this above help in answering the poster's question?
"Why are straight people obsessed with homosexuality? Seriously...?
Maybe, if the truth were known, some of those so-called "straight" people have secret desires concerning homosexual relationships, but they are hiding behind their guilt and directing antagonism towards others who are more honest with themselves (and others).
I am only suggesting, not accusing.
All human behavior is a combination of choice, environment and genetics.
First I am gay. Choice or not, I'll say it like this. The genetic and enviromental part has NOT been proven yet. BUT who a person has sex is where the choice is. I could just as easily choose wether or not to have sex with a man or woman. In other words I can keep my pants on or take a cold shower.
The problem with "want", cardisa and wilderness is that, if homosexuals want to be heterosexual, but don't, then, they don't really want to...It's that simple. If homosexuals have a problem with feeling lonely because they feel society won't accept them, is a choice to feel that. That is due to analytical reasoning. Again, another choice...Your feelings come from your thoughts. Your thoughts are what control your feelings. Unless there was something mentally wrong with you and you were unable to reason properly or think clearly based on something physically or chemically missing in your brain.
What about asexuals, eh?
As others have pointed out, until YOU can choose whether to be homo or hetero sexual, it is difficult to see how you can possible claim that others can. And I very highly doubt that you can choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex; you already said that even when you see a good looking male it is simple jealousy rather than sexual.
No, feelings very seldom come from thoughts. Few people are able to control their feelings, Spock-like, even. They just over-ride them with thought and cover them up, not change them. Sexual desire is a very difficult feeling to forever ignore, particularly when that feeling is returned from someone else. Were it not so we wouldn't see such a large number of people cheating on their spouses.
That's true, wilderness. Until I can consciously choose and understand how to then I can't expect others to do it. You make a good point.
I don't understand my own sexuality completely, yet. It might be a mixture of jealousy and sexual...
You literally just admitted that people can control their emotions, even if it's a few, they can. Meaning it's possible. I don't think people cover up their feelings. Then they're fooling themselves and avoiding trying to seek the truth, in other words, ignorance. People do do that, but using myself as a reference, I know I don't. I find which thoughts to have and why and feel comfortable having those thoughts once I've understood them! That's the problem though, when people do not reciprocate or disclose feelings. If you're confident in your feelings, it won't matter how another person feels about you. What you think and what other people think are two different things.
You mention cheating, that's interesting. Cheating is caused by a way of thinking and feelings are created from those thoughts which lead you to act in a certain way. Wouldn't being homosexual apply to that too ?
I think some straight people may be obsessed but not all. The ones that have a problem with it certainly are passionate about it. fYI I'm gay
3 reasons why I fall into the straight person who cares about what gays do.
1. Do you have kids? I care because I have kids. They are impressionable (backed by science) and seeing or explaining gay people isn't something even my gay friends want to explain to their kids- yes, they hide it from them. So a more appropriate question is why the media is so obsessed with it? Leave it out of the media for my kids to accidentally see and I'm fin with it.
2. Mental health. Studies have shown gay men (not known about women yet) are more likely to be gay if molested or raped by another guy. I know several gay folks and ALL have been molested and/or raped. coincidence I think not. Gay is sometimes a cover-up and result of abuse without the person getting help.
3. They've hijacked the feminist groups. Extreme gay groups (usually the most vocal and in your face) care only about their agenda. They've hijacked feminist groups who once fought for women in the workforce (who are now struggling to be a mom and afford child care). Gay rights seem to take precedence over everything else concerning women.
1. The fact that it's hard to explain is a reflection of your attitude, nothing else. Kids are impressionable but they're also incredibly understanding and accepting. Are you seriously afraid of your kids "accidentally" seeing gay people just... being gay people? I don't want my daughter to think that I needed to hide homosexuality from her, because that definitely gives the wrong impression.
2. The APA's official stance on this is that there's no compelling evidence to suggest that sexual abuse is more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as being gay. Even if there was a higher incidence of sexual abuse among homosexuals, you would need to specify whether the child identified as homosexual before or after the abuse. Surely there's a pretty good chance that male children who identify as homosexuals are more likely to be abused by a man than children who don't.
3. Can you direct me towards an LGBT group that claims they're more important than feminists? Or is it your own personal feeling that LGBT groups take the attention away from women's rights?
Sorry, but this and subsequent things you have said point to a biased ignorance on your part. If men get molested or raped by anyone, especially at a younger age, they are more likely to suffer guilt and mixed-up feelings about themselves, leading to long-term a-social traits. They are NOT a cause of homosexual orientation.
To put your opinions in perspective, do you suppose that a young woman who is molested or raped will become a prostitute? Of course not.... traumatic assault is just that, and something that most of us would suffer from, physically if not mentally, should the occasion arise.
Also, I detect a general antagonism from you towards gay men. Presumably your encounters with gay men have been limited to those who have psychological imbalances on one kind or another....far cry from the normal, everyday, loving relationships which are enjoyed by countless homosexual men around the world.... men with whom any child of yours would be extremely safe and cared for.
1. Yes, I have children. I'm also a gay woman. I grew up around straight people, seeing straight people on the television making out - yet still gay. I am and will be quite happy (our duaghter isn't old enough to understand being only one) to explain what it means to be gay to my children. It's the same as explaining what it means to be straight...and its likely I'll have to explain that as well (as would anyone).
If your gay friends don't want to explain homosexuality to their own children - thats their problem. I have no issue with it. It would be like being afraid to talk to my child about straight people. I will be raising a child (and another...just not here yet) that is understanding and accepting of difference. That there is NOTHING wrong with being gay. Nor if there anything wrong with it being on television. If your children are going to be gay, they already are - TV and gay people won't change that.
2. Sadly, your friends have been abused. BUT not every homosexual has. Just because ALL of your friends have unfortunately experienced sexual violence, does not mean that your friends are an example of ALL gay people. I'm very gay, and nope, not abused. Most of the gay men I know or am friends with....NOPE, not abused. One in 5 girls are raped or molested before a particular age - you don't see 1 in 5 being lesbians. Generalising is ignorant.
3. I'm with Aime F - show me a group who says this? Most LGBT groups are for equal rights for everyone. I'm actually wondering if you've had a issue with a gay person in your feminist group. Again....no indicative of all gay people, or groups at all.
Maybe it isn't a choice to be gay or straight. I don't have enough information to decide for myself. Biologically I don't think it's a choice, but besides that, I can't imagine it not being a choice.
Again, I don't mean to ever offend anyone, I'm just trying to learn more and any insight or proof I receive is great!
How much of it is choice depends on the strength of genetic and environmental factors.
No amount of choice is likely to overcome a strong genetic urge. But it can overcome a weak one.
Genetic urge is really just a pressured influence. You say likely which implies it is still possible to overcome that urge even though it extremely difficult. But even if you're inclined or compelled to choose because of environmental factors or genetics, you still choose, no? I'm just getting technical...
I understand your point. There is no choice if the attempt fails because the urge overcomes it. Alcoholism is an example of what I mean.
An alcoholic may choose to stop drinking but fails because the urge to drink is too powerful. Other alcoholics make the choice and stop drinking because they found the strength to stop or because the urge didn't overpower the choice.
You have to look at it from different perspectives.
We always go on about it offending straights and church goers et cetera, but what about gay people?
We are exposed to heterosexuality on a day to day basis on the tv, media everywhere we go and look et cetera and you never hear us complain about it, or say how heterosexuality offends us? We accept you for being you. Straight or not, we accept you. We don't pass heterophhobic judgements. Do we?
There is also another angle to look at too, the population.
If you have a more aged population than a young one, then it's not good for the economy of a country. Pensions will be affected amongst other things. So you get something called a baby boom by promoting itwith romantic heterosexual films and romantic holiday adverts et cetera, anything that helps More kids be born, a huge media drive. It's big business. At one time they used to step up attacks and arrests on gays in order to force more children to be conceived through sham marriages. Gay men fearful of being exposed, marrying women and pretending to be straight, to prevent an aged population. Cruel Control of the masses!
. After ww2 this happened a lot in Britain. And I bet America did too. At least here in the west it is legal to be gay in most areas, still a few others to go.
There is also the churches to look at too.
Religion is a personal thing to most people. However, those high up in the religious circles like clergy and ministry, know it is nothing more than a business. You have to look at it like that of a cinema or theatre. A new film comes out at the cinema, it needs to appeal to as many as possible to sell, so they will constantly advertise and promote it to get you to go and watch. The church is like that too, it sells seats either through guilt or by persecuting others it deems weaker and different. Mainly it persecutes because it wants to control everything and it can't control gay people! We prove that there is another way other than theirs and they are afraid it makes them look weak or different to accept us. In times of austerity and hardship people have to have someone to blame ( should be bankers, they caused it) however, the church knows this, and so channels that blame through control, towards gay people. Humans have this inner need to know they feel better than someone else. The churches deem gays the lowest of the low to help control you to feel that bit better. But, when they feel their grip isn't tight enough, you will be accused of some sin which will be bad, but not as bad as the gays. You see it all stems down to control!
There is a lot more to consider but these are the main ones I can think of at present.
Being a gay man I have heard a lot of reasoned answers and arguments but observing deeper into what people are saying and you can see this kind of thing. Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good. Hope it helps.
I see one of the most hypocritical ways is getting others to do the "dirty work," then sit back in safety and watch. Get others to go out and evangelise. Get others to strap explosives around their waist and blow themselves to oblivion. All in the name of a ficticious god....whom you will have to answer to if you disobey. Hypocritical, bullying, cowardly, selfish....all the Deadly Sins working together in order to support human control over fellow humans.
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