Lets see we have the homos, the bis, women who hate men, we have the minorities with a chip on their shoulder, the petas, tree hugers, the grazers, no gun people, socialists, unionists, atheists, peaceniks, the heads, PCer's, free lovers, abortionists, progressives and the self apointed intellectuals. Sounds like a circus to me!
So now "liberals" shouldn't be allowed to get married? Why do you want everyone to be unhappy? Just live with the fact that there are people that don't think as you do. Doesn't mean you should wish bad things for them. I've come to terms with the fact that people like you are here, and I wish you nothing but happiness.
When did I wish bad things on anyone? We all have to find our own happiness and it should never be at the expense of anothers. Ruining marraige so gays can rub it in our face when you know we're willing to accept a civil union is just plain mean. You or the gay community want a compromise you just want a victory over conservative Christian.
Sure! Thats was all part of the list of liberal dems I mentioned while responding to challenges from the left.
Look I don't appreciate your name calling especially the racist crack! I didn't single out any one for attack. If you had read what I actually said rather than look for an opportunity to be a victim I would gladly explain my position. I have never said this to any hubber before now but, I would prefer you never address me again. Thank you.
I'm just joining so you folks will have to catch me up. The fact that some people believe that gays are human beings with the same rights as other human beings, causes people who don't agree to buy lots of guns and ammo and threaten a civil war?
I note that you currently have NO FANS. You also appear to be very 'passionate' with what you may consider to be 'wisdom!' Hopefully that passion will at some point allow you to see the world from a wider perspective than what you have promoted to date!
If so; Then you may gain sufficient 'wisdom' to understand the following:
1) This IS NOT a Religious forum and therefore please keep your 'religious' comments to those forums designated for that purpose.
2) The majority of people here, do not identify with Allah.
3) That what you consider is unnatural and unhealthy, occurs (passionately) within your culture more than you are prepared to admit to.
Ah my dear man, you are such a diplomat Jumped on here after seeing you'd posted to check out the scoop. Rewinding after a simple "Triple NO" lol
As for the subject of gay marriage - my 2 cents: a gay friend of mine put it profoundly. She said that being married had helped them keep their committment to each other, honoring their cherished love and bond beyond the daily trivial disagreements. That says it all in my book! We heterosexuals aren't setting a very good example of how sacred marriage can be - why not let those who have had to overcome society's judgments in order to be who they naturally are give it a whirl? (Ok, maybe she didn't say it all )
If not being married diminishes a natural human right to visit a loved one's sick bed in a hospital, I say we need a new definition/interpretation for marriage and our society's rules! Are we back to a healthcare issue? Different forum for that too I'm sure
NO - You answered what you believe to be true! You come across as being totally Homophobic! Don't hide behind your religion or science to justify your Homophobia..... It could lead you to a fear of dropping your soap!
If you're not a very good person, it helps to focus on a couple of sins that even you are not "guilty" of. Hence some Christianist men's obsession with homosexuality and abortion - two things straight men will never engage in.
By denying gays equal rights, paradoxically, they can feel more holy.
I don't feel Holy and I'm guilty of more than a couple of sins but two wrongs don't make a right. Whats the problem with a civil union that has the same rights? Nothing it's all semantics. I'm for compromise, marriage is ok if, it's made a felony offense to bring suit against any church unwilling to marry a gay couple to include a mandatory prision sentence for all parties including the ACLU.
The same people that oppose capital punishment approve of abortion, who's the hypocrite?
What do you mean by "two wrongs don't make a right" in the context of this discussion?
Separate but equal is never equal under the law. We have learned that as a country before, time and time again. But civil marriage has absolutely nothing to do with religion, so I'm not sure why churches are up in arms about this except as a rallying cry to squeeze more donations from their parishioners. Churches have always had the right to marry/divorce whom they choose, and there is nothing but paranoia suggesting that allowing gays/lesbians *civil* marriage will do anything to change this.
As for the hypocrites? You could as easily define those as those who are "pro-life" when it comes to fetuses and "pro-death" when it comes to suspected criminals.
Some of the laws have done just that, although in my opinion, it is completely superfluous. Maine's law did just that...but in the end it was defeated anyway.
I saw a chart recently that showed people's feelings about "hot-button" social/legal issues, like interracial marriage, same-sex marriage and abortion. The first two have shown an unmistakeable trend towards acceptance over time; abortion has not. For abortion, it really matters how you define the start of life, and I don't think even good, sincere people will ever agree on this.
That is the great misunderstanding about gay marriage. I dont want to walk down your Church Aile and stand before your Preacher. I want to go to my City Hall and get legally Married and have the same rights and benifits you do. People that go to church think I'm an Abomination. All the Abominations I've seen in my life were not gay. I want nothing to do with your church.
No I cant do that. Gay people are just like straight people. Some are stupid, some are crazy, some want to stick their nose into something that is not their business. Sorry some gay people out here actually want to stand before God and Church and preacher and kiss and say I do...be everything a straight couple is. They are dying for acceptance. Most gay people love themselves and dont look for your approval.
Most gay men didn't choose being gay, didn't want to be gay, and that's why some marry a wife and have children trying to fight off the feelings. It makes hell for everyone. These are the kinds of stories about victims due to gay people that exaggerate the issues and only cause more fear and less understanding and tolerance for glbt people.
It shouldn't be a big deal, but unfortunately, like anything we are afraid of, we fear it and think it must be destroyed.
Then if you get what you want then why not make sure our fears are put to rest with tough laws on bogus law suits and the ACLU. We don't want our happiness compromised either and I know you don't get that position.
Holding on to your belief against gay marriage by this teeny tiny thread isn't working. Find a new case or cross over to the other side Anyone can sue anybody for anything. Saying you don't want gay marriage because of a small possibility is denying someone's happiness for selfish reasons.
No it's not selfish, I don't want a religious war in America for alot of reasons. If there was one the opposing side would lose badly and it could lead to a more right-wing government than you could imagine.
You can't walk on someone else's rights to satisfy the minority. The fact that you don't understand the damage gay marraige would cause to our social fabric means you shouldn't have a say. This is serious it's not the same as sharing a toy.
Oh please. Give me some credit. Treating me like a 5 year old will get you no where. There have been several cases where the minority gain rights at the "expense" of the majority. If you would like to put it that way, "expense" being compromising their beliefs.
No one's toying here, friend. And no one should have their right to free speech cut off--neither you nor I. What is important is that despite disagreement, we can agree to disagree at the end of the day. If we don't, it's just more war, really.
Understanding the damage of gay marriage is important. I'm not necessarily for it in that what about gay divorce? How much more jammed with the courts be over that? However, there needs to be equality of rights, and how that is defined in an equitable way is really at the foundation. It's better to focus on the common ground than cracks in the wall. Most rational people do want equality for all people. It's not about a special interest's groups rights, because if you go that route, you leave out another group. It's about equal rights.
I don't think you are against equal rights, are you, sneak?
this idea of gay marriage being outlawed is stupid as its going to be appealed in 20 years anyway. so you might as well let them marry. just as long as they don't try to convert the straight folk, then im okay with it.
I would not attend a church that allowed it. I've said so many times it's ridiculus, I am for a civil union that gives them the rights they deserve and for a Christian conservative thats pretty damn moderate! I'm not for marraige, sorry. You have your ideas about it and I have mine. I've also said I would obey the law no matter what! That's a hell of alot more than the radical gays did in California after prop 8, where was your outrage then? My fine liberal friends.
You may have no fear regarding homosexuals, but you definitely have no willingness to try to understand. That's not a very well founded premise to fight against it, I think. Understanding, facts and education are the only real tools to solve any issue. If you show a desire to understand and be educated, you'd more understanding here in this thread, I believe.
I'm willing to compromise! I'll come half way! I know what gays are and what they stand for and what the liberals that support them stand for. You're the liberals be libereal work for a do-able compromise. Or maybe you don't understand all you think you do.
What an absolutely arrogant statement! "I know what gays...stand for"? Of all the gay friends I have, no two are alike and no two have the exact same belief system just as no two hetrosexuals are the same. Sorry Sneak but anytime we speak in generalities we take a risk.
Absolutly not. I just want all parties to leave marraige and religion alone. Find a some ground where our sensibilities are adressed and where gays can be content. Blowing us off as rediculous and not affected isn't solving the problem. We'll obey the law but we'll never accept it and if marraige is damaged I personally will never support anything gay ever.
As far as I'm aware, the only people bringing religion into the civil marriage rights discussion are those opposed to marriage equality. No one else cares who your church chooses to marry or not.
You keep on saying that the rest of us have to listen to your concerns, and we have and still don't see anything except "this might harm my marriage in a way that I can't explain, so I won't support equality for my fellow citizens."
I agree. He seems to be so worried about his rights, but he hasn't said anything where gay marriage or being gay has anything to do with his rights. He touched on marriage, but his problems with marriage could happen in any sort of union- man/man, man/woman, or woman/woman.
One marriage will not hurt the rights or another person or another marriage. Allowing gay marriage is not going to cause anyone to lose their rights. What is causing people to lose their rights is people who believe that gays should not have rights.
We cannot say that we know everything right? I understand you believe the bible is the word of God. But just as in your opposition to gay marriage there is a chance, a slight chance, that something may happen.. hear me out. Don't analyze the question, just try to answer it.
What if you meet God and he is not only not opposed to homosexuality but embraces it? If he tells you that he sent you homosexual family members to teach you compassion and tolerance and understanding? If all that you are fighting for is a lost cause?
And how does anyone else getting married change that for you? Not all marriages are religious, many are done at city hall by a judge. Our society still calls that marriage. Are you saying those marriages are not real marriages?
I don't want a civil war in the US we've done that. If the left persists it will only escalate and escalate. I would find a compromise that works and stop! If you push it there's nothing to stop people putting a stop to it. Do you realize how much gun sales have increased and ammunition is pretty tough to come by. There are people who are preparing for the worst. You can sit all comfortable in your club or coffee shop rationalizing your liberal agenda but you have a larger portion of the country doing the same the other direction.
You have a very very wide range of those you don't agree with. Ron's estimate of 90% seems correct. Because to you, any homosexual, minority, woman who stood up for her rights, anyone who has participated in a protest or signed a petition, vegetarian/vegan, who doesn't want to own a gun, had an abortion, bisexual, been a part of a union, etc. you disagree with. Basically anyone who isn't exactly like you. So I would even stretch to say that figure it higher than 90%.
Like Bush said BRING IT ON! If you think me or any other gay person on this planet is going back in the closet because of your threats things are going to end very badly for you. Do you think they ask who you have sex with when you go to buy a gun. I've been attack a number of times because I'm a gay man. Dont try to scare me.The big mistake you going to make is mistaking a gay man for a punk. You dont realize either your mother or father could have been gay. Your Children or your wife has to listen to your sick crap everyday. One day you are in for a very rude awakening. You are no longer cute or funny. You stepped in it dude.
Uh OH! Things just got more complicated. I guess the wingnuts didn't figure that gays can buy guns too. And when you consider that interior designers earn much more per capita than practioners of the "janitorial arts", who do you think will have the bigger arsenal.
I don't believe Gay really matters personally I do not care there are other things in this world to worry about besides how people feel about each other. My sister is lesbian and has been in a relationship with her significant other for years, I do not think of her any less and I love both of them to me they are family between both of them they have 5 children and the kids have a completely functional home the only thing different is they have two moms all of them are A,B students so it certainly doesn't make any difference to me I have to worry about me and do not have time to be judging others.
No, it should not matter..we fall in love with who ever we fall in love with..I am straight, but I see nothing wrong with anyone who lives their lives, relationship wise, any different than I am with my love..
I hope that made sense.. we love who we fall in love with, who am I , or the rest of the world, to judge.. Traeat humankind how you want to be treated..I live by that and I think the world would be a bit nicer if we all felt the same way
I read it. The comments section is rather misplaced probably because this is his first hub. Below the comments are the rest of the hub. While he may not have realized the self promotion he committed, his musings are rather nice. Put his shoes on and walk a mile in them and you may gain a little perspective. And so it is with each of us. Whether hetero or homo, walking a mile in each other's shoes will go a long way to helping understand one another and gain a bit more tolerance. At the end of the day, that can only be a good thing.
Then the same is true of you, sneak. You can't assume that your life is to exemplary that you don't affect others negatively. You've obviously affected several people in this thread negatively, having read some of the comments.
the only reason people like you hate on gay people is because the bible says it's wrong and it grosses you out right? why would gay people sacrifice their happiness just so you can win your hate battle? I mean, when you stuff your face with 20 burgers at one time i bet that grosses out a lot of people too but it doesn't affect other people's lives in any way right? would you give up your eating habits so we won't be grossed out by the way you look anymore? Why would your opinion be turned into a law? in my opinion people like you shouldn't be seen in public at all, make that a law=)
Them being gay is fine but it doesn't stop there, next it's marraige, then adoption and you know there will be discrimination lawsuits brought against churches by the ACLU. And how those issues affect others are just glossed over, "It doesn't affect you!", well it does. Thats the point you blow right on by because what matters to conervatives and Christians means less than zero to you.
A man and woman marrying doesn't affect you, so why should a gay marriage affect you? A straight couple or single woman adopting is no different than a gay couple. It really doesn't affect anyone else. Gay people work and live their lives just like everyone else does. They bleed and hurt just like everyone else.
Should you have your rights striped because of your sexual orientation?
Truth is that men and women get married for reasons other than love and family every day. Some live on welfare and have kids to get welfare money. Some marry as a matter of convenience, promotion, money and more. So in reality, if you condone marriage between a man and a woman blindly, then you support these less than honorable motives as well, whether directly or indirectly.
The bottom line is that if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. In order to be a part of the solution, there needs to be civility and understanding on both sides of the issue. It isn't about bull-dozing your opinion to the point of destruction of an opposing view.
So being for hetero marriage can be as shady as being for gay marriage, unless you become informed of facts and supportive of what is good for all.
The only problem with your theory is there are those who support traditional marraige and in our case we've been married for 34yrs to the same person. There may be nitwits who aren't able to compromize and maintain a relationship but that condems us to be thrown in the same sewer.
Marraige -no Civil union with rights - yes Marraige with a ban on discrimination lawsuits against churches-maybe
Whats your proposal? Stomping your feet and demanding your way isn't a proposal.
You're absolutely right. But if a man and woman can get married, why can't a gay couple? That's what I'm asking. I'm not saying that debt, welfare, and whatever else isn't going to happen in a gay couple because it can happen with any married couple. A man and man can marry for political reasons just like a man and woman can. A woman and woman can marry for money just like a man and women can. So, why should the government decide who can marry and who can't?
I'm not saying that one relationship is any better or worse than the other by any means. But, it's a person's preference and one can't help who one falls in love with, so why should anyone be told who they can and cannot love and marry?
It just shows you that the Bill Of Rights and The Constitution are a bitch to get around doesn't it? While the term marriage being between a man and a woman is aknowledged by DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) by the Congress in 1996, it is a law that is at the center of the debate whether the Federal Government can enforce a law that was largely left up to the states until then.
One additional thought: I was married twice, a total of 24 years. I raised a family. I did all of the family things and loved it, despite my constant inner battles. I believe I've worn both sets of shoes on this issue, and I do understand the argument of both sides. However, equality is illusive at best, regardless of your situation. If you have been treated with equity and dignity your whole life, you are indeed one of the extreme few who have. The argument shouldn't be based on special interest groups, but rather equality of human rights. In that regard, there is work to do in the LGBT community as well as every other sector of society.
My only concern with gay marriage are the radical activist that would go after churches and ministers who refuse to conduct ceremonies. If that could be assured there would be nothing left to argue about.
Not true. Maybe for you and sneakorocksolid. Washington state just barely approved civil unions ("domestic partnerships") for gay/lesbian couples, where the term "marriage" wasn't even up for discussion. All the same anti-marriage-equality folks were spending millions on this campaign, too.
But it passed. In the end, what else matters. You see, GLBTC is probably not going to win a lot of hearts and minds with this issue. If equality is what they are after, it sounds like they have found the recipe for success.
well its because the concept of gay marriage is still considered taboo at the moment. you have to remember, that it was only like 20 to 30 years ago that it was taboo for inter racial couples to marry, let alone any same sex marriages. Therefore, all it takes is time. give it another 20 to 50 years, assuming we're all not dead after 2012, . and i promise you, gays will be allowed to marry openly. trust me on that one.
Why anyone cares what others do with consenting adults is a mystery to me. As to marriage, I think most people miss the real question- Why is the government involved in ANY marriage?- Straight, Gay, monogamist, polygamist,none of their business. For those rights desired by consenting adult partners: medical care, funeral, child care, whatever, civil contracts are the way to go, no matter what your persuasion. For those whom marriage is a religous sacrament, again, have it blessed by whatever faith you adhere to, and keep the government out of it. Government involvement in this aspect of peoples' lives is purely for reasons of financial gain, and societal contol.
I'm gay and to me it's not a big deal. I am who I am and that's that. I don't care about the rest of society when it comes to my personal love choices. As far as marriage is concerned, I'm opposed to marriage, for hetero's and for homo's. It's a flawed institution, unrealistic and archaic. Having said that, my views are very differant to those of my fellow gays. They care very much about their identity and status quo. They want what everybody else has, respect, the right to marry, the right to be in the military and be 'out'. It's a matter of equality to them. For people like us who have lived a life of persecution and ridicule it's easy to over-react and lash out against those that have kept us in shame for so long. For the zealous and, dare I say, jaded homo's it is a big deal. On the other hand for the hetero homophobes, it's a big deal to them because we are a threat to their way of life and most likely repulsive in the eyes of their righteous God. Therefore they oppose us. But this argument is rapidly dwindling. There will be a day in the very near future where gay, straight, trans, cross-dressers, bi's, swingers and all sorts of diversely sexual people, will live together and it won't be such a big deal.
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