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Do people choose to be gay?

  1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
    R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago

    If someone chooses to be gay, then that means they are actually straight- and chose to be gay...

    ... then doesn't that mean that someone chooses to be straight which really means they are gay- and chose (at some point) to be straight?

    Logical right?

    1. Theresa_Kennedy profile image80
      Theresa_Kennedyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      @R.S. Hutchinson- nice turnaround smile

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the point of the discussion was less about answering the title, and more about addressing some people's silly logic. The turnaround can be used on nearly every xenophobic comment out there.

      1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
        R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes.. you are correct smile I'm not sure everyone got that though!

        1. Richieb799 profile image63
          Richieb799posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Of course, yes when you choose to do something that usually imparts that there are more than one alternative roll

          1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
            R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Good call Richie. Now do you think you can discern my point without me having to spell it out?!

            1. Richieb799 profile image63
              Richieb799posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Yes I know what you are trying to say, people that chose to be straight are actually gay if people who chose to be gay are actually straight :S
              I don't know whether some people are born gay or not but I do know it is wrong to go with the same sex just because you have had bad experiences with the opposite.

              1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
                R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Well.. not really that's not what I was trying to say, but my thought process can be rather abstract at times (as an old English Proefessor once told me)... My main point was that I don't believe people "choose" to be gay. I am by all means in every sense of the word straight, but I have friends who are in every sense of the word gay.. my male gay friends are attracted to other males (they claim) the same way I am attracted to females. And my attraction to females is so strong that I cannot help but believe it was how I was born, therfore, I deduce that they must have been born that way as well.

      2. waynet profile image45
        waynetposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        No because if a person decided they was gay, then they would have been gay from the start unless they felt like a change, much like you would with a new pair of shoes, but if the straight person has a gay person inside them then they may be considered hiding a gay, then if the gay person inside the straight person was actually straight then that means the other straight person has just eaten them.

      3. Evil Stepmother profile image61
        Evil Stepmotherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        A person cannot choose to be gay or straight.  You cannot control who you are or are not attracted to, and/or who you fall in love with.  The choice is whether or not to live that lifestyle, to be with the person you want to be with.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Really?
          Untrue. You determine what you seek? Do you not?

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Kinda makes it sound like we all float around like fairy dust and cling to whatever we bump into along the cosmos corridor.


          Who knows ,sub consciously ,maybe we do ,because Ive had some dorky boyfriends back in the day  lol

          1. 0
            DoorMattnomoreposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol  fairy dust, thats funny!!

          2. thebrucebeat profile image59
            thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps that's true.
            That's why 80% of any given population adheres to the prevailing faith tradition of that community.  It's not that they have discovered the truth, but that they have been indoctrinated into what they "bumped into" in the accident of their birth.
            Read my hub about indoctrination into faith.  Tell me what you think.

      4. Freegoldman profile image61
        Freegoldmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I dont think so....i beleive people are born Gay......

      5. Freegoldman profile image61
        Freegoldmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        It is apparent that  homosexuality does not have one particular "cause." It is not purely genetic in origin, for instance, because the very twin studies (Bailey and Pillard) that some interpreted as "proving" a purely genetic origin of homosexuality actually "disproved" it, because only 52% of identical twins of homosexual persons were also homosexual. If homosexuality were dependent on a particular "gay gene," both twins should have possess that gene, and thus there should have been a 100% correspondence.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You should read about epigenetics and how two people with the same genes (twins) can express those genes differently.

          Here's a video that illustrates it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7aUlWjPZVw

    2. earnestshub profile image89
      earnestshubposted 5 years ago

      No, people don't choose to be gay. smile

      I don't think I chose to be heterosexual either. So far all the people I know who are gay have always been thus from as long as I have known them anyway. smile

      I may have not understood the thread, I am drugged up to the eyeballs at the moment, but if anyone has a go at my gay friends, I come out of my corner like Cassius Clay anytime! lol
      So, no. In my experience gays are just folk who are gay, I am a folk wot ain't gay.

      1. PRanj profile image61
        PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        How can you say that you have some friends who are gay? Ridiculous. If you know that they are gay then you should have shown a modicum of friendship and deport them to a Mental Hospital.

        A Gay is not by choice, one can't become mad by choice. It is serious mental disease.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          A mental disease? lol lol

          1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
            Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think it's gay people who have a mental disease on this thread smile

            1. Ronnie_Dey profile image59
              Ronnie_Deyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Very rightly said, some statements really make you smile indeed. First time heard someone saying in Hubpages that, being Gay is a serious mental disease.

              1. PRanj profile image61
                PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                @Ronnie:

                And, you are smiling. Great. Are you Gay? Ask your parents about this. I know their responses. And then, interrogate with your family doctor about the possibility of any sort of Mental Disorder that your dad, mom is going through. I know you will never need to ask your family doctor because your parents will never say that Homosexuality is OK.  Don't get furious. I know what will be the response of your parents.

                If you don't know anything about Psychology then at least keep your mouth shut. Don't utter nonsense. Homosexuality is a MENTAL DISORDER, that's what Indian culture says. And, Indian culture is the oldest one. A great one. Pure. It rests itself on the rule of nature, not on a prophet or pope.

                Homosexuals should be discouraged. Its not about religion. Its about nature. If everyone will opt to be a homosexual, then the reproduction system will be stopped. Nature don't want to see its evolutionary creatures getting extinct. It has its own rule to preserve them. It asks them to reproduce, that's why one feels attraction towards opposite sex. One means a sane person, not INSANE or HOMOSEXUAL who is attracted towards same sexes.

                Freedom of expression comes with a caveat. Understand this and then allow your hands to write something.

                If you are hurt by my response, then certainly you are a Gay. Govt. of India is running some very good Mental hospital, get yourself admitted. Ask your heart.

                I have my sources in Central Institute of Psychiatry, Ranchi. I can get yourself admitted and ask doctors there to take care of you. That is also not far from your state. If you Wish.

                1. TMMason profile image73
                  TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  ROTFLMFAO... you tell em, Ranj.

                  It is not a natural thing. Even if you take religion out of the equation it is still an unatural act, and deviant state of being.

                  1. 0
                    Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    It's nice to know that a right-wing Easterner and a right-wing Westerner can come together in their hatred of gays.  There is hope for world unity.

                    1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Not really sad  I have several Indian friends that would argue quite fiercely about this with him.  I read some of this over the phone to one of them... he laughed for quite some time both about his views and his Indian history.  So sorry, there are some open minded, intelligent people in India too.  There goes world unity...

                2. skyfire profile image72
                  skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  How come you know their response ? do you wash dishes at his house ?
                  You assume a lot about others. Where you learn all of this S**t from? RSS camp ? or buy this from some temple ?

                  Do you have medical education ? if so, show me the proof that being gay is mental disorder ? If not STFU. Search google for 'STFU'.


                  Indian culture is not book of psychology to pass any empirical evidence based on cultural finding to that of biological concept. Ironically kamasutra has non-human sex inputs in the book. No need to explain you that people during mauraya's dynasty used to have sex with same sex and animals. Get education instead of blabbering psychology in indian culture. You know rats a$$ about psychology let alone indian culture. Don't teach me about indian culture, i tolerate your religious and cultural bullshit in this country all the time.


                  Great one? ghanta. big_smile Just because it is old doesn't mean it is right all the time and has empirical evidence for every known thing on this planet.


                  Go get some education: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual … in_animals



                  Proof ? Besides that worry about population of india. wink


                  How the eff you know ?


                  People blabber without any proof in this part of the world. No wonder population is rising here.


                  Freedom of expression doesn't mean religious nutcase can go on and blabber their crap on others without any valid proof.

                  BS. Just because anyone defends gay or lesbian doesn't mean they have to be gay. Height of deluded brain. big_smile One can be straight and defend others those who are gay or lesbians. Get that conservative air out of algae size brain.

                  1. PRanj profile image61
                    PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Good,

                    Loved your response. Worth reading. I appreciate this one. However, I wish you had removed the religion and RSS stuff from your response. I didn't like that, everything else is fine and perfectly add to discussion.

                    But, then removing religious angle from your response makes it quite ridiculous.

                    Religion is the best way to defend Homosexuality. It is happening everywhere. Gay people like you are blabbering about other being against them because of religious motivations. Lol!!

                    As I said, it is nothing about religion. And, then you are trying to defend your community by saying that there are cases of homosexuals among animals. Let me add, homosexuals are not only insane, but also it is tantamount of becoming an animal.

                    Mauryan's dynasty? Lol! I don't know from which dirt you belong, but at least try to read something about Indian History. Try to awaken yourself. Simply nonsense.

                    Empirical or normative. That's not my contention. and, at least I can assure you that being old it is not true for everything,  like it can not defend insane people uttering nonsense. In fact, it does not need to defend itself from idiotic responses from people who don't understand nature.

                    Worry about the population of India? Another idiotic response. It means to say Indians should go for homosexuality to stop population rise. And, you should know about demographic dividend. Do you know. Well, grow up. Population is not a problem.

                    I just assumed that Ronnie's parents loves nature, not religious, that's why I said that they will never ask Ronnie to become Homosexual. Lol! I won't mind washing dishes of Ronnie's parents. Sikhs who are millionaires come to India to wash utensils of unknown people. That's all.

                    BTW.... whether you are Gay or Lesbian..... I mean male of female.

                    1. skyfire profile image72
                      skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Why ? conservative brain doesn't like associating itself with similar conservatives ? it hurts isn't it ?

                      LOL. You assume a lot as i said earlier. Do you think i'm gay or lesbian ? or you deduce that from algae size brain of yours because my arguments are against your shi*ty cultural thought process of yours ? Have you ever got molested by gays or lesbians ? You look damn desperate in your offense against them. big_smile

                      Humans are animals. Whether you like it or not. Swallow it. wink


                      I'm not from religious and conservative dirt like you. Try to learn what is indian history first and get some education. Simply BS.


                      So you have no empirical evidence and no medical education and blabber based on cultural conservative though process, don't you ? Thanks for BS.

                      Population is not problem ? are you kidding me ? Do you even live in india to make that statement ? big_smile


                      As i said earlier, you assume a lot and have no medical education, no empirical evidence for what you blabber. You only blabber based on ancient BS and for what you're brainwashed by people around you. Get some education. You need it.


                      I'm straight and defending human species from religious sh*ty conservative dirt of this secular country.  What about you ?

                3. Uninvited Writer profile image83
                  Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The Western world decided a long time ago that homosexuality was not a mental illness.

                  Done with this argument. As I said at the beginning...there are gay people and there are straight people, get used to it. Tired of people assuming only their way of life is "normal."

                4. qeyler profile image81
                  qeylerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  It was only in 1971 that Homosexuality was delisted as a mental disorder at the tireless work of Dr. Spitzer, who, in 1999 admits he was wrong. Since homosexuality is not a mental disease, the fact that so many homosexuals seek psychiatrists, is for what?

                5. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                  Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Helloo, My son is gay, Not mad, neither is he 'unnatural, And, as his mother, I've always told him that sane, natural people will like him for who he is, not what he is.

          2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh like religion roll

        2. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol You are hilarious! lol

          More than one of them are church clergy, another one of our leading judges, another barrister, and to represent the other classes, a dentist and two doctors, and a cleaner off the top of my head. lol

        3. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          PRanj
          A Gay is not by choice, one can't become mad by choice. It is serious mental disease.

          You would have been right back, in 1973 when the law made being gay illegal or gay acts and punished them, by throwing them in jail with a bunch of others gays.

          I wonder if some day, we will look at too much religion, as a mental disease. Some do use Satan, as a form temporary insanity to get away with murder in court. They certainly get away with wars and free taxes.

        4. brimancandy profile image83
          brimancandyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry PRanj. But, the arguement that being gay is a mental illness has come and gone. And, a good reason for that, is that a lot of psychiatrists are homosexual, so,  how can they tell a homosexual that they have a mental illness when they are also gay. Not saying that all shrinks are gay, but, I know several, along with a lot of doctors, lawyers, and other people in the medical field. It's almost like saying a black cat is not black, when you are a black cat. But, if your gay, the cat's color is probably more than likely called Midnight ambrosia....black is for too ordinary. LOL!

        5. 0
          Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Personally, I think bigotry is a serious mental disease.  Far more serious than being gay could ever hope to be. 

          Perhaps if people were recognized for being people rather than for being gay, straight, liberal, or conservative, life would be a much happier endeavor for all involved.

          This is perhaps the most outrageous thing I've ever heard in regard to the psychological origins of homosexuality. 

          Shameful, really.

          sad

        6. thighhighchick profile image59
          thighhighchickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          WHAT??????? YOU have the mental problem!

        7. Smart is Good profile image76
          Smart is Goodposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wow, you seriously think it's a mental disease? Your mind is as narrow and homophobic as it gets. People like yourself and others who believe (by religion or other motives) that being gay is either wrong or a disgusting disease are the reason why this world can't move forward socially. Anyone has the right to feel love for anyone; loving someone of the same sex in a romantic way is not immoral or mentally twisted. It is a right everyone has, with no discrimination. I guess you mind isn't as developed yet as to understand something so simple as that. I hope someday you realise how absurd your argument was.

      2. AEvans profile image71
        AEvansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. smile

    3. 0
      Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

      Yes, it is as logical as the arguments made by some religious thinkers, who believe everything is a matter of choice.  I have also heard some Christians suggest that people with disabilites are being punished by God for their sins, and some Spiritualists that believe we choose health conditions such as cancer as a way of learning a lesson for the next life.  There is no logic to their arguments, but their thinking is so habitual, that it is not possible for them to think out of the box, or view things differently to the black and white way they have been conditioned to think.

      1. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Now this is something I do understand clearly, and sadly agree with. sad

    4. Richieb799 profile image63
      Richieb799posted 5 years ago

      I'd just like to mention one relevant point here, so you don't know any women who have had bad issues with men(even mothers) and then chosen to try women instead?

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Personal experience? smile

        1. Richieb799 profile image63
          Richieb799posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          WHy would it be a personal experience, you see it everyday, 'men are scum' , 'men are dishonest', 'I'm turning lesbian' blazzay blazzay...

          1. IzzyM profile image84
            IzzyMposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Oh Richie, they don't really turn lesbian, no matter how badly men treat them. It's just an expression. I have even used it myself on many an occasion LOL

            The odd woman who does leave her husband and family for another woman, has always been gay but perhaps fought the feelings to try and be 'normal' like she perceived others to be.

            That happened to a mate of mine on the taxis, his wife ran off with another woman she met on the internet. He blamed the internet, but she must have always been lesbian trying to act like a normal wife and mother.

            In fact, my current partner's last wife also left him for another woman - couldn't have been good for his ego!!

            But if was lesbian, she was lesbian, end of story.

            1. Richieb799 profile image63
              Richieb799posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh Richie, they don't really turn lesbian, no matter how badly men treat them. It's just an expression. I have even used it myself on many an occasion LOL

              Yes I can see why women would say this if they got angry smile

          2. mega1 profile image81
            mega1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            you might want to try hanging out with some different type of women!- definitely not all women talk like that, and the ones who do are mainly just talking.  "trying" the same sex is much different than being gay - gayness you just can't avoid.  If you are a lesbian you just aren't interested in men at all, only women - you wouldn't be complaining about the men in your life because they wouldn't be that important to you.

            1. northweststarr profile image79
              northweststarrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well said Miss Mega!

      2. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I don't quite see it that way. smile
        I believe that Women are suppressed anyway and heterosexualised from an early age so the pressure to conform is immense, even more than for men.

        Later when some are freed from religious repression, or social pressures they can rediscover their sexuality with less fear of reprisals.

      3. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I know I'll get howled down for this - but yes, I do know two "lesbian" couples whom I've always felt slightly confused about.

        All four women are older and all have been married or had several boyfriends.  All are vocal about what bastards men are and how they never want anything more to do with them - and it's still a favorite topic of conversation, even though they've been "lesbian" for years. 

        When they talk about being lesbian, they talk in terms of trust and affection and never mention sex - and nothing in their body language suggests intimacy.   They behave more like besties.  Every time I see them, I get the uneasy feeling they've just taken refuge in a "friendship with benefits" rather than acted on their true nature.

        On the other hand, I have another friend who thought she was straight until she was about 30 years old, when she fell deeply in love with a woman.  I remember hours of anguished discussions as she tried to come to terms with that realization - made more difficult because the object of her affection was completely unaware how she felt.   There was no question in my mind that Trish didn't have any choice in her feelings.

        1. 0
          Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I have a cousin, who for years had relationships with men, before settling down with a woman, with whom she seems to be very happy.  I am not sure if this means she was always gay, but hid her true feelings, or if some women can change sexuality.  It does seem to be different for some women.  Whereas men tend to be either/or, with very few being bisexual, I have read that an estimated 25% of women have bisexual feelings.  I don't know how true this is.

          I have recently discovered I have another cousin, who lives in the US, who is also gay, and is married to a clergyman.

    5. Richieb799 profile image63
      Richieb799posted 5 years ago

      Most lesbians Ive met never looked like they've ever had a religious influence cast on them lol
      BTW I have no problem being friends with gay people, I have a few. What other people do is their business and I'm not saying that some aren't born gay.

    6. Jonathan Janco profile image80
      Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago

      If someone chooses to be gay, its before they are born that they make that choice, not afterwards.

    7. Lyn.Stewart profile image89
      Lyn.Stewartposted 5 years ago

      It is a proven fact that people don't choose to be straight or gay. It is all to do with genes ...

      i.e. your born with blue, green, brown eyes due to your genetic makeup and scientist have found the genetic code that also makes a person gay, straight or bisexual.

      1. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Wrong, there is NO science that suppoprts any genetic homosexuality in any of the fields.

        1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          So I suppose that means there isn't for heterosexuality also. Why did you choose to be straight?

          1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
            R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That UW, is closer to my point smile

          2. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am not going to have this conversation in two threads... so pick one.

            I am naturally attracted to the oppposite sex... as all people are... until they choose to be with the same sex.... or suffer some traumatic experience, or other-wise aquire a proclivity for the lifestyle.

            No genetics are invloved, and, no science supports any gay gene.

            Those are just facts... deal with it... and live with them.

            And I do not judge gay people, nor do I hate them, but I do judge the act... it is immoral, deviant, and other-wise un-natural.

            I will not embrace immorality, dis-function, choices to live deviant life-styles, nor abnormal behaviour, and call it moral, normal, natural, correct and acceptable for all, simply because some want to justify, normalize, or just plain lie and call it something it is not.

            Pretty simple.

            You want to practice immorality, or deviant life-styles, go ahead.. that is your choice.

            But do not think everyone should embrace and accept your choice for moral and acceptable... when it is not. And do not try to lie and say science supports or concludes such a finding... when it does not.

            1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
              Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Again you assume that anyone who defends gay people must be gay...

              1. TMMason profile image73
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What?...

                What are you talking about UW...

              2. TMMason profile image73
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                What?...

                What are you talking about UW...

                I have not assumed you were gay in the least... no where. I made a general remark insiide a comment, "you want to....."

                That is not to you... that is in general.

            2. preacherdon profile image79
              preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Well said, TM. I agree. I find homosexuality to be unnatural because the purpose for mating is procreation. Two men nor two women cannot procreate. Yes, you can adopt. Yes, you can go to a sperm bank, but that too is not natural. The two are attracted sexually not for any other reason.

        2. wba108@yahoo.com profile image86
          wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I believe what your saying is true do you have a link with some proof on it? I personally do not believe poeple are born Gay, do to religious reasons,I always believed some poeple may be more genetically suseptable to being Gay but that ultimately its a choice. My theory is that you could most likely find a genetic link to any behavior such as violence, risky behavior, murder, stealing etc but if the behavior is wrong I can't see blaming it on genetics.

          1. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have posted dozens of links destroying thier science and forcing them all to admit that there is no genetic, or other-wise scientific, link to be found... and it has been a chore.

            Do I have a link that says... "definitely it isn't genetic".

            How do I prove a negative?

            But I do have the proof that, as of yet there is no genetic link, nor any science that shows any support for one.

            Regardless of Evan's lil interviews with LGBT's storm-troopers.

            They are all welcome to keep working on the science... but they do not get to lie about it and claim it shows something it does not.

            It is just like the percentage of people gay in the world numbers some clown back in the thread threw up... something about Australia and 25% increase in population if the gays were put there.

            That is BS... the number of the gay population in this world is approx, 1.7%... not a threat to world domination as of yet.

            I think they are waiting for a population explosion within their ranks... kinda ironic, eh?... copuld be a while lol... but the BS slung as fact cannot stand.

            1. thebrucebeat profile image59
              thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_ … rld_is_gay

              This is a good article that shows that you stridently stating what percentage of the world is gay is based on your agenda and not any universally accepted number.
              The key to the article is the last paragraph, which states that an accurate number is impossible because people feel the threat of persecution from people like yourself, and fear self identifying  as gay.

              In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus used as an example of who is our brother a man from a sect that was considered the sworn enemy of the jews.  The fundamentalist crowd saw Samarians as the lowest form of life, and yet Christ used one of them as his crowning example of how we should treat our fellow man, and never suggested that the Samarian converted.  He made the point that those you villify could be the ones God will choose.  I can't help but wonder if he was telling this tale today, if the man who gave his help freely would be a gay man.

              1. TMMason profile image73
                TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                My information comes straight from the Supreme Court of the United States, the filings of over 31 gay rights groups and advocates and they established the percentage in their own words in said filing...

                ---U.S. Supreme Court on March 26, 2003 in the Lawrence v. Texas, known as the Texas sodomy case.---

                In footnote 42 on page 16 of this legal brief, 31 homosexual and pro-homosexual groups admitted the following: “The most widely accepted study of sexual practices in the United States is the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS). The NHSLS found that 2.8% of the male, and 1.4% of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. See Laumann, et al, The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994). This amounts to nearly 4 million openly gay men and 2 million women who identify as lesbian.”

                Despite this indirect admission that the 10% figure homosexuals have used for more than two decades is wrong, the writers of the brief still continue to lie about the real numbers. The claim that 4 million men and 2 million women are gay is based on multiplying the 2.8% and 1.4% figures by the total number of males and females in the U.S.

                It is unreasonable to count any of the 60 million Americans who are 14 or younger (including 40 million who are under nine years of age) as “openly gay men and women.” Yet, that is what this brief claims. Even as homosexuals admit they’re wrong about the 10% figure, they apparently still can’t resist lying about their true numbers in our population.

                You all did get that one, right?...

                It is unreasonable to count any of the 60 million Americans who are 14 or younger (including 40 million who are under nine years of age) as “openly gay men and women.” Yet, that is what this brief claims.

                WTF!..

                Wow.. what a bunch of BS that is... but that exemplifies the length and breath of the deceptions and twistings, of the American Left, Progressives, and the Homosexual agenda...

                Google it... very interesting reading.

                And as to the science of gay genes and other BS...

                ---"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."---

                http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx

                I will take the U.S. Supreme Court, and those 31 Homosexual Groups and advocates who represent millions of gay men and women.... over your Wiki any day.

                1. thebrucebeat profile image59
                  thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The Wiki article cites your source, and many others.  It simply says that the numbers are unknown, based on people not wanting to put themselves at risk of people like yourself.
                  The SCOTUS number is also only referring to the U.S., not the world at large.
                  I agree that it is unreasonable to count those under 14.  It would be equally unreasonable to count them as hetero, so their numbers should simply be thrown out of the equation altogether, right?

                  1. PRanj profile image61
                    PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    But, what about natural reproduction? Here in India, the biggest challenge that the Government is facing in its fight against AIDS is this hidden Gay Community.

                    Its not about religion, its about nature and its principles.

                  2. TMMason profile image73
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes.

                    My point is simply the 25%, of the population, or of America... is BS Bruce.

                    And the numbers and polls do show a couple things....

                    One... would be the length some have gone to to increase the numbers and lie about them.

                    Two... would be the rigged studies they use to promote such BS.

                    Three... would be that from the evidence we have... the number is nowhere near as high as the Left and the homosexuals have tried to spout and push as fact.

                    That much can be gleaned form the information at hand.

                    And the someone like me?...

                    Someone who points out the facts, and how said facts are in contradiction to the BS spouted by many and taught as fact?

                    Well I am truly sorry for having to destroy the dream of you alls la la la liberal land.

                    1. thebrucebeat profile image59
                      thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Your reading is challenged again.  Go back and read what the 25% refers to.  You have it wrong again.

              2. 0
                Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                thebrucebeat, there is little point in trying to appeal to Mason by using the parable of the good Samaritan.  Mason is a good Christian, and will therefore not allow any teaching of Christ to get in the way of his belief system.

                1. thebrucebeat profile image59
                  thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL!

                2. TMMason profile image73
                  TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You and Bruce pre-suppose a lot.

                  I for one do not see homosexuals as any type of low form or other form of life. They are people making bad choices, simple.

                  That does not mean I have to embrace the lifstyle choice as, "natural", great and morally acceptable, when it is not.

                  And to throw up Jesus is a red herring...

                  Jesus would have told the homosexual who asked for forgivness, that he or she was, "forgiven, now go your way and sin no more".

                  Not given 'em a free pass, as you both seem to think.

                  The sex cults were not foriegn to Jesus. He would not have and did not accept immoral sexual practices as a good thing and right to do.

                  Not in the least.

                  And my response are not angry... simply facts. You can cry about the world population this, and blah blah that... but we see your floundering and reliance on solely insulting another, so as to skew the vision and course of the facts.

                  Have fun.

                  1. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And, you continue to claim a higher moral ground, at each and every turn. Too bad your own "bad" choices continue to damage society more than gays/lesbians. lol
                    Bad choices? According to whom.. You? That's a laugh.
                    It's actually just as natural to be attractive to the same sex. How? It's sexual attraction, which is natural in every way known to humankind. Just because it doesn't go along the path of what you supposedly assume is natural or the procreation of humans, doesn't make it any less morally acceptable than you being heterosexual.

                    1. TMMason profile image73
                      TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Yes.

                      As I said before, Cags, abnormal, deviant, immoral... un-natural.

                      The natural function of sex is pro-creation... so... think about it.

                      Okay.

                      And I claim no ground. I Simply continue to correct the lies about the science and stats you all spin to try and uphold the BS.

                  2. thebrucebeat profile image59
                    thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You don't see them as a lower form of life, only as unnatural and immoral ones.
                    Well, that is a great relief, Mason.
                    Why do you think Jesus is not quoted in the Bible regarding homosexuality?  Why does he have such an intense concentration on greed, money, the rich and pride?

                    1. northweststarr profile image79
                      northweststarrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I find homo-phobes immoral and un-natural. TMM, have you heard the expression "take the plank out of your own eye first" or perhaps, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?" Anyone who condemns or labels anyone else should look to their own first. Personally, I find eating oysters deviant (slimy disgusting things) but that's a personal choice for others to make.

            2. wba108@yahoo.com profile image86
              wba108@yahoo.composted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you for your reply, I will look at your posts!

        3. qeyler profile image81
          qeylerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          In 2000 the scientists, let me correct, the Gay/Lesbian scientists had to admit that despite years of search they could not find a 'gay' gene.  As of today, in 2011, the 'Gay Gene' has not been discovered.

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            We still haven't figured out the nature of the origin of energy and matter in the universe yet, either, so by your logic, the universe doesn't exist.

          2. thebrucebeat profile image59
            thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Just as no "straight" gene has been discovered.

    8. northweststarr profile image79
      northweststarrposted 5 years ago

      My brother is gay. Why would anyone choose to be gay? There is no minority more villified, stereotyped, or just flat out picked on than the gay community.
        I was bisexual myself when I was a young adult/teen.  I eventually made the choice to be hedero as it was an easier lifestyle. (and my wonderful husband is male)So I can see where you'd ask if it was a choice. Our proclivities are not choices. I happen to find men and women equally exciting. If my soulmate had happened to be female, I'm sure i would be classified as a lesbian.
        Having dated many women over the years, I was always annoyed very much by the stereotype that bisexual people are easy and go in for constant threesomes. (I never liked to share.)
        So is being gay a choice? Absolutely not for those who are only attracted to the same sex. For those attracted to both sexes, most of the time.

    9. 0
      dixie28714posted 5 years ago

      No they do not choose to be gay, nor are they born that way.  Babies are innocent.  I think some of the gay people in the world have a reason of something happened in their life to the point they saw being gay as an "escape".  That's some and not all.. I don't think being gay should make us turn our backs on them, I think they are who they are and when they die God will have the final say and punish them how he sees fit.. I say live and let live... and change the topic LOL

      1. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
        SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        ...wow...you actually believe that?  'punish them how he sees fit'?...and then later a 'lol'?...i figure yor goin' straight to hell.....lol lol

        1. 0
          dixie28714posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          LOL!!! thats all I gotta say...

      2. 0
        Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I suppose that means I am heading straight to hell.  As I have always enjoyed being warm, it will at least save on the heating bill..

    10. northweststarr profile image79
      northweststarrposted 5 years ago

      Are you friends with Ms. Bachman? Her husband preaches something like that creed.

    11. Stump Parrish profile image60
      Stump Parrishposted 5 years ago

      Yes, people chose to be gay. The only other option is to commit suicide of a sorts. If you cant be who you are, you cant live.

    12. kirstenblog profile image77
      kirstenblogposted 5 years ago

      I think it was Freud who postulated that homosexuality is more like a gradient or spectrum instead of a black and white thing, that indeed, to some degree or another everyone is homosexual barring the very very few minority who actually do exist right at the extreme straight or homosexual side of the spectrum. I know Freud isn't always right, matter of a fact he was wrong more often then anything else but this theory kinda rings true to me. It goes a long way toward explaining how victims of horrid abuse at the hands of the opposite gender can find themselves 'man haters' or 'woman haters'. Strip away the abuse and give them a proper experience of life and chances are they would still have landed somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, the abuse just pushed them a bit further along the spectrum. I could be totally off base with that idea but until I hear better it suits me just fine. I do like the idea that most homophobic 'gay bashers' are in reality at least a little gay themselves and simply freaking out cause they cannot just accept themselves and others as God made them (supposedly).

    13. Uninvited Writer profile image83
      Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago

      This has got to be the 300th thread debating homosexuality...time for people to grow up and get over it.

      There are gay people, there are straight people...fact of life. You don't like it? No one is forcing you to be gay...or straight.

    14. frogdropping profile image83
      frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

      What an amazing amount of ignorance in one single thread.

      Awesome.

      Thank god I chose the hetero path.

    15. 0
      Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

      People choose to be gay or straight, just as they choose to be black or white, or to have blue eyes or brown, or a man or a woman, or with a disability or without, or European or Asian.  Yes, it is all one big choice.  I find this argument absurd in the extreme.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree completely.  You've stated this quite simply, and quite well.  big_smile

        I believe that human beings are sexual beings.  They choose to act on that or not to act on it, but they do not choose to whom they find themselves attracted.  Either way, they are human beings who should be respected as such.  Period.  I hate, hate, hate this argument.  Judging a person by their sexual orientation is small minded and cruel.  I think regardless of a person's religious stance, God is far more concerned about how we treat others than with whom we choose to share a bed.

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I agree 110%...smile

          I am no ones judge.

          Just gonna love ya anyways.

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks, EK.  big_smile

        2. kerryg profile image88
          kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well put!

    16. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

      I am bi-sexual.  I did not choose to find women attractive.  I am living as a straight woman now, because I chose to marry a man and be faithful to him alone.  If I would have fallen in love with a woman and chose to be in a committed relationship with her, I would be acting as a lesbian.  I am still attracted to women, and thank God I have a husband that understands when I stare a little too long.

      The point is, while I may CHOOSE to abstain from any other (as you really should when married) there is still a part of me that is unfulfilled.  I can not imagine how those with no heterosexual inclinations at all could ever be happy living the "straight lie" no matter how many pills they take or how many times they pray to God for strength. 

      I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to torment a person like that just so other people can be assured that no one else in the world is behaving in their so called "deviant" behavior.  Even coming from a religious view, what the hell happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?

      1. 0
        Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.  It is my experience that many Christians are quick to judge.  Maybe they should take a leaf out of the book of that Jesus chap, they claim to follow.  They would find that they are much more accepting of other people.  Although I am not a follower myself, it is my understanding that Jesus taught love, not hate.

        1. preacherdon profile image79
          preacherdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I am a Christian. I don't hate. I don't judge. All I do is say what God's Word says. If you disagree with that, take it up with Him. I didn't write it; I'm just the messenger. Yes, I know, the shoot the messenger. yikes

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            See my post above.

          2. 0
            Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Hi preacherdon, I have done what you suggested and have taken it up with Him upstairs.  He told me that He has changed his mind, which considering He is God, he is perfectly entitled to do.  Apparently, he has decided that he now only wants  gays as sunbeams, because with all the glitter, they shine more brightly.  He also told me that you need to get with the programme and move into the 21st century.  Don't blame me for being the messenger, I am only saying what He told me.

        2. northweststarr profile image79
          northweststarrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You go gurl! Perhaps the reason some people like to shake their fingers at other ways of life is simple.  Like the schoolyard bully, it makes them feel better about themselves and their way of life.

      2. frogdropping profile image83
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

        You can't educate carrots.

        So why bother.

        1. kmackey32 profile image82
          kmackey32posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I wish there was a "Like" button here....lol

        2. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Especially carrots who think they know everything.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol  lol..often found in a stew,hehe

      3. EmpressFelicity profile image85
        EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago

        I just couldn't resist, sorry lol

        http://lovecarrots.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/bigboy1.jpg

        1. frogdropping profile image83
          frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ... gay carrot. No question. Swings to the left ...

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image85
            EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol

            Empress Felicity - lowering the tone on internet forums since 1999

        2. brimancandy profile image83
          brimancandyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          This photo gives new meaning to "cuffing a carrot". Sorry, I couldn't resist.

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image85
            EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I've clearly led a very sheltered life - had to look that up lol

            Seriously, this should be renamed The Thread That Has Long Outlived Its Usefulness. I have to say one thing, which is that I've seen enough smarminess and hypocrisy here to last me for quite a while - all that "hate the sin, love the sinner" cr*p: urgh.  It's like when someone says "I feel sorry for you" or "I pity you" when they really mean "I think I'm better than you but I don't quite have the cojones to come right out and say that."

      4. frogdropping profile image83
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

        @ PRanj - wow. Verbiosity at its finest. And, if I may say so, one of the best attempts at armchair psychology.

        Ever.

        @ TMMason - In. Your. Book.

      5. zzron profile image61
        zzronposted 5 years ago

        I believe heterosexuality is natural by nature. Anything different is by choice. The purpose of sexual attraction was meant for procreation

        1. PRanj profile image61
          PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Anything different is not by choice, but by 'pagalpan [Hindi] Madness'. Nature loves symmetry. It will never allow someone getting homosexual. But, Insanity will always be there.

          Homosexuality is neither natural, nor by choice. It is a plain Insanity.

          1. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
            R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Pranj you keep saying that "Nature loves symetry" and basically that homosexuality goes against nature- 
            but....
            ...as skyfire pointed out ..
            homosexuality runs rampant amongst animals. Are they not considered part of nature or are those animals also suffering from a mental illness? And if it's the later, what -just out of curiosity, would you suggest we do with said animals that display such "madness"?

      6. frogdropping profile image83
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago
        1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But I think the denial of it and the obsessive hatred of it is definitely a mental illness.

      7. Kurant82 profile image78
        Kurant82posted 5 years ago

        I dont know, do people choose to be black? Do people choose to be midgets? Do people choose to be blind? This question is about as logical as the ones I just proposed. And should not require a rational explanation.

      8. skyfire profile image72
        skyfireposted 5 years ago

        Religious people don't consider themselves as species born on this planet. Christians assume god made humans as his image and sex is only for the sake of spreading Christianity like virus (i guess god masturbated while creating females and humans(being his image) took it wrong for homosexuality big_smile) and in case of other religions they think humans are not animals born out of evolution but made for entertainment purpose of god with appropriate karma cycles and mana. tongue

        To stop madness ? In case of christians, if their dog/cat/birds show signs of homosexuality then they should take their pets to church and let priest brainwash them to such extent that they only think of following jesus. big_smile

        1. PRanj profile image61
          PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          As I said, Gay like you defend yourself by uttering nonsense about religion. Grow up, dude. Understand the base of nature.

          1. skyfire profile image72
            skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            big_smile You know rats *behind* about biology, so stop blabbering about something you don't know. Get some education before becoming preacher of nature.

            1. PRanj profile image61
              PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Skyfire,

              Your response to Indian History and Population convinced me that you are not worth talking. First of all, you need to get out of Wikipedia and read something that is not based on only facts. Anyway, why should I preach a Homosexual?

              First of all, come out of religion. Gay always defend themselves by this. Talk logically. I didn't say a single word about religion in defense of my hatred for Homosexuals. Why you? It is you who has been brainwashed by your un-natural sexual orientation.

              You are definitely a Gay, and I am not a psychiatrist. I am extremely sorry, I can't treat You.

              You should better admit yourself in a good metal asylum.

              Get Well Soon Dude.....

              Best of Luck.....

              And, rest assured, I won't tell your neighbor about your madness.

              1. skyfire profile image72
                skyfireposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The way you blabber without any medical education and empirical evidence about something you don't know, convinced me what type of person you're. I know where to put likes of you.


                There are plenty of medical evidences given in wikipedia article. Do yourself a favor and read before you talk anything that related to biology/nature. If you have medical education come up with evidence to refute it. If not, get some life, better yet get a girlfriend and start populating this planet the way you learned it from nature. If that's not enough blabber your BS elsewhere. You don't need to preach homosexuality if you're straight i don't preach it either, but then why you oppose them without medical evidence ? Have you ever got molested by gays or lesbians ? tongue


                Joke of the day.


                Really ? when you were blabbering indian culture in this thread, didn't you made reference to ancient dominating religion in this country ? (i.e. santan dharma) Borrow some brain from nature before arguing.

                As i said earlier, you got yourself molested by gays so anyone who defends gays, looks gay to you. Cure this paranoia, you know the hospital, don't you ? wink

                Get some education, biology books are good starting point. Then consult with psychiatrist for paranoia and then go to history teacher for reference to indian history. You're welcome at bhandarkar institute for these references any time.

                1. Kurant82 profile image78
                  Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  To Skyfire: Hey Mohammed! why dont you go masterbate to the thought of your 86 virgins, buy a knew prayer rug, and go worship some cows. I hear that is very popular in India. Other than that let me just say...You have nothing to say that is worth being heard!

                  1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
                    Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Boy...you are a nasty piece of work

              2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                PRanj

                towards skyfire

                Why you? It is you who has been brainwashed by your un-natural sexual orientation.You are definitely a Gay, and I am not a psychiatrist. I am extremely sorry, I can't treat You. You should better admit yourself in a good metal asylum.

                WOW Man
                If you could take all the gays in the world today , replant them all into one Countrry like Austraila, their country/s population would be 25 times greater.

                Do you think you could cure all the gays it they were in one place, like they tried back in 1973 within the prison system. Or do you think many gays would commit suicide if they couldn’t convert, for those gays you could smile down on them in hell from heaven?
                The only other gay choice is for them to create their own families in hell's afterlife. Where they also can create swans, Hot night Clubs and waterfalls. Then put a sign in front of hell's gate, NO straight people Allowed!!!
                Soul salvation: is not the same in Spirit and soul as in my books

      9. Cagsil profile image82
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago

        Another ridiculous thread about gays/lesbians.

        Regardless of whether or not it's a choice, it shouldn't matter at all. How one lives life, as long as it is not a detriment to society as a whole, is their business.

        Mocking or making fun of, or spreading hate, isn't justified. The sexual orientation of an individual does not and never has defined a person's overall character. It has very little to do with it.

        It is the wrongful perception/perspective used by those who are already influenced by external sources, which is skewed.

        1. Kurant82 profile image78
          Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Honestly, I think by even trying to respond to this question, I will have somehow become dumber by doing so. In fact I believe I am loosing brain cells as I speak simply by be tempted into writing any form of response to this thread. Thanks for making me dumber as a human being.

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Interesting statement. roll
            Another interesting statement.

            So, what exactly was your intent with the above post? roll

            1. Kurant82 profile image78
              Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              My statement was just a response to the original question proposed, "Do people choose to be gay?" And my way of responding to this question by way of sarcasem to reveal how rediculous it is. I believe people do not choose to be gay, the thought of that is , well, absolutly retarded. If I thought that one day I could just turn gay by choice and not by it being natures intent I might just drown myself in my own bathtub. Do people choose to be gay? common, are you serious, I mean really, why is this even a discussion. Once again I feel dumber by responding once again.

            2. Kurant82 profile image78
              Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              My statement was just a response to the original question proposed, "Do people choose to be gay?" And my way of responding to this question by way of sarcasem to reveal how rediculous it is. I believe people do not choose to be gay, the thought of that is , well, absolutly retarded. If I thought that one day I could just turn gay by choice and not by it being natures intent I might just drown myself in my own bathtub. Do people choose to be gay? common, are you serious, I mean really, why is this even a discussion. Once again I feel dumber by responding once again.

              1. EmpressFelicity profile image85
                EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                So dumb in fact that you posted twice lol lol

                Really, why do people get their underwear in a tangle over stuff that occurs between consenting adults that they don't happen to have a taste for themselves??  Or maybe it's a case of "methinks the good gentlemen do protest too much" lol

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Because if they aren't getting the big "O" (Frigidity comes with mental rigidity) then no one else should be either.

                  1. EmpressFelicity profile image85
                    EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    lol lol

                    Surely it goes a lot deeper than that though. I mean, not everyone who isn't "getting any" goes out on a crusade to stop everyone else from doing so lol

                    I just think there is a type of person with a mentality that tends to look at what everyone else is doing and "wag the finger" in disapproval at people who don't measure up to what that person considers to be the "norm". I mean, telling other people what they should (or shouldn't) be doing is far easier than evaluating one's own behaviour and motives, right?  And I'm not just talking about sexuality here, either.

                    1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                      MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I didn't really take enough psych courses to diagnose someone smile  Honestly, my guess--if it isn't motivated by God's referral program--is that it is about claiming moral superiority in order to build one's own self-esteem.  Something along the lines of "Yes, I may be a total tool, but at least I'm not gay"

                      As to members of god's referral program,  I think they believe they'll get a fluffier cloud if they torment enough homosexuals into living a horrible unhappy life.  I'm not sure exactly what chapter and verse says "Thou shall pass judgement on everyone else in the world and enforce your twisted definition of what my Book says until the poor bastards either fake reform or commit suicide"  I've read the whole book, haven't found it.

                      1. EmpressFelicity profile image85
                        EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Your post has at least four fantastic T-shirt slogans in it:

                        "Paid-up member of God's referral program"

                        "I may be a total tool, but at least I'm not gay"

                        "I'm going to be raptured, and you're not. So there" (came up with this one after a bit of internet research - thankfully there are but few people who believe in the "rapture" in my part of the world)

                        "There's a cloud in heaven reserved for me. And it's well fluffy too"

                      2. Kurant82 profile image78
                        Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        Awesomely hilarious!

      10. KK Trainor profile image60
        KK Trainorposted 5 years ago

        I just posted this on another forum, but thought it might fit here as well. It's an interview from this week on Dylan Ratigan with a neuroscientist and addresses this very topic about halfway through. It's definitely worth watching, entertaining and informative.

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31510813/#43731239

        It doesn't advocate for either side, it's just good info I think.

      11. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
        R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago

        Well, after reading through these answers I have to say I don't think most of you read the entire question, and if you did you did not understand that the real question was not about if we choose to be straight or gay. The real question addresses the logic proclaiming that someone can "choose" to be gay or not.

        Some of you got that and I applaud you!

        There are of course, some that feel, "yes" you are born straight and then choose to be gay yet they failed to acknowledge the logic I outlined in the OP (that they -under that logic- must have chosen to be straight if we are to accept that gay people have chosen to be gay.)

        I was very surprised/amused at the "gay is a mental disorder claim". I honestly thought that reference of thinking expired sometime in the 50's. Obviously I was wrong. But again, that opinion has nothing to do with the OP and seems to just be a debacle for heated debate- which was not my intent. 

        And to the women that chime in about being Bi/gay... Well, all I can say is that I don't blame you tongue because if I was a woman I'd certainly be gay!

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Bah... It's not all it's cracked up to be... Sure the house is clean, but the oil never gets changed in the car.

          *ducks and flees*

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol lol lol

          2. 0
            Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I bet it is not as clean as a gay man's house, or as fragranced.

            I used to have a cat who had previously lived with two lesbians over the road, but he came to live with me because he couldn't come-to-terms with lesbian wallpaper.

            1. northweststarr profile image79
              northweststarrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              >tut tut< should never skimp when it comes to the strap-ons sister.

      12. Richieb799 profile image63
        Richieb799posted 5 years ago

        Got it thanks wink

      13. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

        The nightclubs would be pretty awesome...

      14. Jonathan Janco profile image80
        Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago

        "Live and let live. Anybody who can't cope with that should be killed."
        -George Carlin

        1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          lol

      15. Jonathan Janco profile image80
        Jonathan Jancoposted 5 years ago

        btw, what is a metal asylum? I hear aluminum and titanium are happy the way they are.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is the set of buildings where the listeners of heavy metal live.

      16. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        Homophobes are always bone ignorant and abusive, it's part of the whole hate filled crud from the psychotic bible. smile

      17. janikon profile image88
        janikonposted 5 years ago

        The assertion that your sexuality, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual, is a conscious choice made at the onset of puberty is ludicrous. I find it laughable when heterosexuality goes unquestioned by politicians, religious figures, media and everyday people but homosexuality is questioned at every turn while systematically being labelled a 'choice' - so, what pre-teen in their right mind, knowing the intolerance in the world, would choose to be gay?

        Maybe before someone labels it a 'choice' they sit-down and write out a list of pro's to being gay. Once you see, presently, the cons outweigh the pros then we'll discuss the draw of making that choice. 

        I'm also sick of people stating they 'do not hate' or 'do not judge' before following it up with a judgement they've divined from above - I'm fairly certain I would respect you more if you, at least, had the conviction in your own opinions to stand wholly behind them.   

        ... and, just so we're all clear, I've already tried to use the 'i'm still sick with the gay' excuse to get out of work - doesn't work, apparently that excuse hasn't worked since 1973

      18. Susana S profile image90
        Susana Sposted 5 years ago

        Falling in love is not a choice. Who you fall in love with is not a choice. When someone falls in love with someone of the opposite sex it is not a choice. When someone falls in love with someone of the same sex it is not a choice.

        It's quite simple.

        1. northweststarr profile image79
          northweststarrposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well said

      19. northweststarr profile image79
        northweststarrposted 5 years ago

        http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5279096.jpg

      20. frogdropping profile image83
        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

        I honestly wouldn't give a monkeys for the opinion of some. I have a shitty family but by heck am I glad none of them base their opinions on some of the stuff I've seen in this thread.

        Gotta laugh at the irony though. The fact that some use religion as a solid base. And found their opinions upon it. Big lol.

        Huge.

        1. PRanj profile image61
          PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But, what about those who don't base their opinion on religion? Supporters of immoral homosexuals always find refuge by abusing religion.

          They forget that the most vociferous supporters of Homosexuality - The Leftists - are behind the massacre of maximum no. of people since Marx.

          You can not defend insanity by writing Good English. You can not defend them by the principles of individual liberty.

          Nature has its own principles. Let us conform with those principles.

          1. Cagsil profile image82
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            How is homosexuality immoral? Forget religion. But, take it at face value...how IS it immoral?

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Conformity to nature is awesome!  Lets say you go live in a natural cave in the middle of a completely natural forest, hunt your food with a (natural) sharpened stick, and wait for lightning to light the fire that you cook your prey on.  Please don't take your horribly unnatural computer with you.

          3. 0
            Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps PRanj, the reason the people who are not homophobic "abuse" religion is because it is often the religious who are homophobic.  It is religious bigotry which is one of the biggest obstacles to an equal and fair society.  If the religious cannot stand criticism, then they ought not to dish it out.  You religious demand respect, yet are the last the give respect to anyone you consider different to you.  There seems to be a well-understood consensus that you are not allowed to disrespect religion.  Why?  Because you are not.  But why not?  You are just not. And that is the end of the argument.   Yet you are allowed to display your bigotry for the whole world to see.  Your ignorance amazes me.   Respect is a two-way street.

          4. frogdropping profile image83
            frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ... and the problem with nature is that sometimes things don't quite hit the mark. For all its beauty, nature is flawed.

            Does that (then) make all the flaws immoral?

            1. livelonger profile image90
              livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Flaws in nature, if not advantageous, tend to get weeded out through natural selection.

              Homosexuality among a minority seems to have an evolutionary advantage. That we haven't figured out exactly what that is yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

              1. frogdropping profile image83
                frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Over-population? We hetero's appear to breed like rabbits. More so in some parts of the world than others.

                Personally I don't care about an individual's sexuality. I care about the person they are, not who they choose to sleep with.

                1. PRanj profile image61
                  PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  More so in some parts of the world than others.

                  This shows your character. sad

                  1. frogdropping profile image83
                    frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And?

                    Do you really think I'm interested in your opinion of who and what I am. In the event that you're confused - that would be a no.

                    I don't play the keyboard warrior game. I have real, physical, healthy and (ultimately) respectful relationships with the people that I know and love.

                    You don't happen to be one of them.

                    If you've a grain of sense, you wouldn't (and shouldn't) give me a second thought.

                    @ Susana - I see no benefit in offering anything profound in places like this. You'll always find that this type of subject matter drags out the bigots, religious, inane and plain old ignorant.

                    As I've said before - you can't educate carrots.

                    1. PRanj profile image61
                      PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      No, I don't think. And, in fact, you shouldn't.

                      It would be my worst nightmare to be among the group of ignorant bigots like you. Never expect rational people to be with you.

                      Second of thought? Lol!!! Ask your heart. You don't deserve.

                      No one can educate carrots.This is fact.  But, people who try to educate frogs are really wasting their time. Won't come here again.

                      Bye.

                      BTW, you have chosen a PERFECT avatar for yourself. It suits your personality, thinking, and character. Good.

                    2. Susana S profile image90
                      Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Pointless and inane - you're probably right on that score frog.

                      I just wish that some of those immoral humans would get on with their own lives and stop bashing others.

                      Why does anyone care what consenting adults do in the bedroom, or the living room floor or the shower? With carrots or whatever.

                      I bet that PRanj gets turned on by women "doing it".

                      1. frogdropping profile image83
                        frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        IDK - doubt I'll ever find out, he/she doesn't like me very much.

                      2. PRanj profile image61
                        PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        @Susana:

                        There is no problem when two consulting adults do this on their bedroom. But, gradually they started to make a community and went ahead with their demand. Again, one should not show resentment for these groups. They are also human beings. But, when this group starts to demand constitutional rights and this and that, then one has to oppose them to preserve future generations.

                  2. Cagsil profile image82
                    Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And, what do you know about Character? Apparently nothing, considering your attempt to defame Frogdropping, because of her statement, which is actual FACT.

                    I am only pointing it out, because your thinking is flawed.

                    1. frogdropping profile image83
                      frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Ahhh Cags ... thank you.

                      But it's not PRanj's fault that there may well be a flaw in their thinking.

                      Nature's flawed, remember?

                    2. PRanj profile image61
                      PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      If 'frogdropping' is a female then let me take back my words for Her. I didn't know this.

                      I was not infuriated by FACT, but the context in which FACT has been presented by Andira. Ponder over it.


                      Cags,

                      1. Cagsil profile image82
                        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        I don't need to think it over. Your position is weakened by your train of thought. What she said was accurate, regardless of the context you apparent took from it. wink

          5. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ranj and TMM

            According to many major studies, it average out to be about 9% of the population is homosexual or at least some form of same-sex sexual contact within his or her lifetime. About 20% of the population have thought about it or had feelings about it, . Homosexual behavior is also widely observed in about 5000 species of animals have been report to have home sexual acts.Due to religious  and political conditions facilitated their visibility has been harmed for very long time and that will only change in time and understanding

            Being Christian is in our genes or is it a choose, Yet a certain percentage of people have the gene to be gay and to change them would ruin their lives in which is unnatural and unethical

            Show me a great Christian nation with morals and I will show you a place that is most like Sodom and Gomorrah

            1. TMMason profile image73
              TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Wrong.

              We have already established the deciet in that story, position... too bad.

              Go back and read.

              It is well established that the numbers do not support any where near that figure. Please. Give me a break, repitition doesn't make it any truer.

              Pay attention... the BS has already been strained.

              It was all in the Court records, where they, the Homo-activist and gay groups, could not come out with blatent lies to perpetuate a myth and normalize an aberration. It would have been perjury to not tell the truth in the filings.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                From your earlier post:
                "In footnote 42 on page 16 of this legal brief, 31 homosexual and pro-homosexual groups admitted the following: “The most widely accepted study of sexual practices in the United States is the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS). The NHSLS found that 2.8% of the male, and 1.4% of the female, population identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. See Laumann, et al, The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994)."

                The two numbers (2.8% and 9%) given are for two different things; the SC refers to the number of gays that will admit not only to themselves, but to the world, that they are gay; they other number estimates the total number of gays, and includes bisexual people (not gay), closet gays and those that do not understand why they don't like the opposite sex. 

                If you're going to quote and compare statistics, do try to make it apples to apples.

                1. TMMason profile image73
                  TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  The fact is the admission of these numbers show the duplicity and deciet that the Leftists and Homosexuals are engaged in, and that none of their own spoutings about percentages can be trusted, and are damn sure false.

                  Like adding the 9 years olds and under in, and the under 14 year olds... to beef up the numbers, as if... what a disgusting trick that is. How does anyone even defend that BS.... it exemplifies the lie and scum-baggy deciet they have adopted as tactics.

                  It is all about inflatng the numbers through deciet and deception to normalize, make appear as natural, and make moral... the immoral and unnatural.

                  Their own actions speak louder that any of you alls words.

      21. janikon profile image88
        janikonposted 5 years ago

        Um, no, what you're saying is both offensive and personal. It's utterly flabbergasting there is this amount of ignorance and, blatant, homophobia in 2011

      22. Susana S profile image90
        Susana Sposted 5 years ago

        I see no one has tried to answer the question of whether people choose who they fall in love with. If we don't choose who we fall in love with, then it follows that we don't choose to be gay, bisexual or straight.

        When a person feels love towards someone and wants to express it physically if the other person feels the same way and they give consent, I really can't see what the problem is.

        Love is not just for straight people.

        It's usually in our teens that we have our first experiences of falling in love - the time when we most want to fit in and be like everyone else. For those that discover that they love someone of the same sex, they usually have a real struggle with it initially. Hate it and try to deny it. If it was a simple choice they would not have those feelings.

        1. TMMason profile image73
          TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          That is absurd.

          That is a good as my pen has red ink... so all pens are red.

          There are many kinds of love... you can love everything about someone and not want to have sex with them.

          1. Susana S profile image90
            Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It's not absurd at all. One of the characteristics of falling in love is the intense desire to express that love physically through sex.

            1. PRanj profile image61
              PRanjposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              You are Right. Nature wants its creatures to attract sexually towards OPPOSITE SEXES. One doesn't need training for this. However, when this desire becomes desperation, then some cross the boundary of nature and make physical relationship with same sex. Nature doesn't want that.

              1. Susana S profile image90
                Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know what you mean by desperation or how you can say what nature wants. Nature is as it is and the reality is that some people are attracted to the same sex.

                So you think gay people only have intimate relationships with people of the same sex out of desperation? That happens in places like prison where choices are limited, but that certainly isn't a normal characteristic of gay relationships. Like I've said, it usually starts with love, just like straight relationships do.

                1. earnestshub profile image89
                  earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I couldn't agree more. The gay couples I know had to have a lot of love for each other, they had to fight for every right they have.

                  One couple (girls I know) have been together for 23 years now.
                  Their love for each other makes their home one of the nicest family nests I visit and I can't help but feel good in their company. smile

                  1. Susana S profile image90
                    Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Of course they have a lot of love for each other smile Homophobes tend to focus on the sex, when it's really about love.

            2. TMMason profile image73
              TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              One.

              Exactly.

              It is by no means the only expression of loving someone. nor is it to most people the most important, or even necessary for love of some people, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, etc.

              So what would make you think sex, as a component, an act of physically expressing love in a relationship.... makes it genetic?

              The perverbial, to learn to love an ugly woman. A guy meets a girl, no attraction at all he thinks she is worse thing he has ever seen, but after time and getting to know her, he learns that she is more than just her looks and begins to see her in a new light. Literally... ugly girls can become prettier if they are beautiful inside... it is reflected upon their outside when you get to know them. He falls madly in love with her, they get married, do it... happilly ever after.

              Nothing genetic... just perception. We can learn to love... or our perception of someone might change over time, and they become someone we would be with.

              Sex is a secondary act... a physical expression of your desire to be that much closer to someone in the most physical and intimate of ways, to express a love for someone in a special way... not a genetic based function of love. Are there chemicals that attract and produce desire... yes... but they do not speak to gay genetics either. They would speak to a cross-wired system such as synesthesia.

              A birth defect?

              And sex is not what love is measured by... and plenty of sex occurs with no love at all invlolved. So that doesn't prove any type of inherant genetic link.

              And then there is Lust.

              You're twisting emotions with actions. Two different things.

              Lust does not equate to love, sex does not equate to love... love does not equate to sex, love is a lot of things... sex a small aspect of it, if at all important in the end.

      23. 0
        Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago

        The arguments made for homosexuality being a choice are very similar to those made at one time for left-handedness.  I remember only a few years ago, a friend who was educated in a convent school, where her left wrist was regularly beaten by the nuns in an attempt to beat the devil out of her, which they believed was the cause for her left-handedness.  It seems religion is still being used as an excuse for ignorance.

        1. brimancandy profile image83
          brimancandyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes. it wasn't that long ago that religious people thought that a deformed child was the spawn of Satan, and usually wanted it put to death. But, they usually just ended up in traveling shows where men got rich on showing off what they called the freaks of nature. Then people wised up, and realised that all the freak shows were just an attempt by an asshole to make money.

          At Coney Island in New York City back in the late 1800's, they put human beings on display. They brought in entire villages of people from Africa, midgets, and the deformed, and turned them into a sideshow. And, the sad thing is, that people actually paid money to see them. The bearded lady was probably just a man in drag, but society was too dumb to know the difference.

          I should also add that the freak show idea has not changed, it just moved into the field of medicine, where the freaks can be treated and cured. At least that is what they want people to believe. Like this huge push by some people in our beloved government that believe that homosexuality can eventually be cured, which translates into more research dollars for doctors and think tanks.

          Just a different group of people getting rich off the freaks.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Good logical posts from both of you....nice. smile

          2. EmpressFelicity profile image85
            EmpressFelicityposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            ...and reality TV.  The freak show never really went away IMO - it just mutated into Big Brother.



            Quite.

      24. BizGenGirl profile image86
        BizGenGirlposted 5 years ago

        Homosexuality has been a part of humanity since the dawn of our existence. I think that some make the choice to explore it and/or embrace it, while others are genetically predisposed towards their own gender. Though personally, I don't think it matters. Love is love, sex is sex, does it really matter what we choose to choose? lol

      25. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago

        The fact is niether Christ nor God would, or do, accept the act of Homosexuality as normal and moral behaviour. And the Churches who have allowed this and accepted it into their ranks are in no way true houses of God. Period.

        God speaks on many occassions of the abominations of the practices of sex cults. He railed against Israel and Judah before the diasporas to cease the syncretism of his religion and the acceptance of abhorant sex acts and human sacrifices.

        Christ would not have accepted that behaviour, either. He would have expected you change the way you choose to act...

        (Or he would have healed you of the defect... if you want to call it genetic.)

        ...and then told you that... "You are forgiven, now go your way and sin no more.".

        Pretty simple, if you read the bible it is all right in there.

        1. Theresa_Kennedy profile image80
          Theresa_Kennedyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          The fact is that people need to worry about their own soul, their own marriage, their own bedroom. The amount of time invested into threads like this suggests some measure of self-neglect, and at minimum the scarier end of homophobia.

          1. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            My soul is just fine.

            So don't you worry about me, I have made my peace with God.

            As far as my commenting in this thread or any other, I will plaster comments from here to the other end of the internet on any topic I want and as much as I want.

            And there are important reasons why this debate has to take place in this country. 1 being the implimentation of the gay agenda into the schools, and the pushing of this as a normal and morally acceptable choice of behaviours for our children to make and to participate in.

            So I do not care if you want to ignore it and make lil remarks... I know and many others know this is an improtant issue.

            Among many others in todays society, of which I comment on a lot also.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              TMMason

              If you were doing a study on me, in the end my option about myself would the most important option in the world.

              ILGA launched 2011 ILGA State-Sponsored Homophobia Report at University of London, They say 10% 0f the world is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex group.  Founded in 1978, ILGA, is now an association of over 700 groups in over 110 countries campaigning for lesbian, gay, bisexual, Trans and intersex (LGBTI) rights.

              To raise awareness on the extent of State Sponsored Homophobia in the world, this year you will find ’only’ 76 countries criminalize in the same list, including the infamous 5 which put people to death for their sexual orientation: Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen [plus some parts of Nigeria and Somalia]," wrote ILGA Co-Secretary General Gloria Careaga-Perez. "One country less compared to the 2009 list may seem little progress, until one realizes that it hosts one-sixth of the human population, as the country in question is India." I hear it’s criminalize “consensual sexual acts between persons of the same sex in private over the age of consent is up to 80 countries and death penalty in 9 countries

              It’s too bad religious people are at the top of the list as the most homophobia people in the world. I would rather see two people having a love relationship than two people killing each other, as for the greatest reason to kill someone, is in the name of God. Not the kind of God I would find all loving.

            2. thebrucebeat profile image59
              thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Peace, love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

              Do you recognize these?  They are the Fruits of the Spirit as laid out in Galatians by Paul.  They are the signs of the Christian who's soul is "fine".

              How many of them do you think you exhibit in your posts?

              1. Cagsil profile image82
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I can answer this nice little question- ZERO! lol

            3. brimancandy profile image83
              brimancandyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              TMmason. There is NO gay agenda! Please.

        2. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But if you believe the bible to be myth or hopelessly compromised by the cultural norms of the time or altered dramatically over time through the oral tradition and then scribal alterations, what argument are you left with?

          We know you have a simple belief in scripture and God, at least when it supports what you want to believe anyway.  But it isn't evidence one way or the other regarding the OP.

      26. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

        Well thanks for that TM, Nice to know that my church is not a true house of God.  Does that mean that I can now disassociate myself with the idiots that protest funerals?  Cause that would be awesome! I'm tired of having to qualify the fact that I am a christian with "but I'm not like those morons".  I'm damn tired of people like you being the loudest and therefore stereotypical representatives of Christianity.  And, quite frankly, it sucks that the bigots that use Christ as their shields really DO do all the things that the militant atheists say they do.

        I'm genuinely curious...  Nevermind what God feels about homosexuality... Why do YOU care?  And don't give me all that crap about decline of society cause that's posturing.  How does what two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom concern you at all?

        You aren't trying to save their souls... (If you are then you are doing a piss-poor job of conversion) You aren't trying to save yourself from the slew of gay men that are just itching to get in your pants...I just don't get what you think that beating people over the head with your interpretation of the Bible is going to do.

        1. TMMason profile image73
          TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It is an abominable act in the eyes of God... period. You want to be a preacher of God... then reform yourself.

          There is no compromise on it.

          1. livelonger profile image90
            livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Have you ever been divorced, TMMason?

          2. kerryg profile image88
            kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So is eating bacon cheeseburgers, but I don't see many Christians following that one.

            You can claim "continuing revelation" all you want, but Jesus himself never said a word about homosexuality. The only one who even mentioned it in the New Testament was Paul and there's dispute about the exact translation of the terms used. They were not the commonly used terms for homosexuality at the time and some people argue that he was referring specifically to temple prostitutes and the practice (common in Rome at that time) of mentor-student sexual relations between boys and adult men.

            1. TMMason profile image73
              TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No it isn't, that is absurd.

              And Christ not mentioning homosexuality, does not equate to him condoning it... what would make you think that? How much absurdity can you toss about in one comment, kerry.

              There is no continuing revalation about it... it is condemned as a practice, and that is it. Any church who accepts it into their ranks, having gay ministers, is an abomionation. Period.

              1. kerryg profile image88
                kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Leviticus forbids both consumption of pork and consumption of meat and dairy in combination, so bacon cheeseburgers are an abomination twice over.

                I didn't say Christ condoned homosexuality, I said he didn't say anything about it. Only Paul did, and his statements are disputed. Therefore, if you consider homosexuality an abomination, you consider it an abomination on the basis of it being described as such in the Old Testament. Leviticus, to be precise. Why do you pick out this one small part of Leviticus to harp on about while conveniently ignoring its many other prohibitions?

                1. TMMason profile image73
                  TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  As to the food, we as Christians are allowed to eat of anything, as was granted through a vison to Peter. I believe it is Acts 10 or 11?

                  So we can eat bacon cheese-burgers kerry... grill 'em up. smile

                  And as for the Homosexuality... I thought you were saying that it was acceptable to allow it within the ministry of a church simply because Christ had not specifically metioned it. Sorry bout that.

                  And Paul was speaking to all the abominable sex practices of the cults and people. We cannot just single out the ones that people want to hold to.

                  1. kerryg profile image88
                    kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    No, that's up to the interpretation of the individual church. Some believe the New Testament overrides the Old and that homosexuality is therefore okay; others believe that the New Testament overrides the Old and the homosexuality is therefore not okay. It all comes down to how you translate Paul. big_smile

                2. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Give it up, Kerryg.  Things are only an abomination to the common religious fundie if they themselves don't want to perform the practice while others do.  If they enjoy pork then it is not an abomination and some explanation/translation/interpretation allowing it will always be found. 

                  It is why there are so many hundreds of religions and sects - everyone must find or make up one that allows them to do what they want while forbidding everything else.

              2. livelonger profile image90
                livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                He did mention homosexuality, only to say that gay men are exempt from the requirement for marriage (Matthew 19:12). Since the topic was up, it would seem that would have been a good time for him to condemn gay people...but he didn't.

                But speaking of marriage...do you know what Jesus said about divorce and remarriage, TMMason?

                1. livelonger profile image90
                  livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow, that shut him up. It works on Brenda, too, who also rails about homosexuality being immoral but has been divorced and remarried. lol

                  1. TMMason profile image73
                    TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    You know just cause someone isn't around to reply to all your remarks when you slip em in there... doesn't mean you have shut anyone up.

                    Please... you all are too funny.

                    @-Castle... You're the funniest of all... I cannot even barely translate half of what you mean from the blather of words you use all twisted together.

                    The answer to your assertion is... NO... yours would be the most self serving and biased of opinions regarding youself and the truth.

                    @live... Mathew 19:12... Does not speak to Homosexuality at all. It speaks to Marriage Divorce and re-marrriage, and the fact that certain people, eunichs among them, are exempt.

                    Jesus did/does not imply any tacit approval of homosexuality through alotting them an exemption from marraige... what a load of BS you are trying sling on that one. Give it a break Live... that is a joke.

                    And I find it funny you would try to use a verse from Matthew to justify homosexuality, when Christ specifcally refers to Genesis and Creation in the same verse, to set for marriage a man and a women,.... which straight out rebukes your interpretation of this verse and its meaning. So if homosexuality is referenced... it is in the inferring that it is un-natural and un-acceptable from Genesis on, in the eyes of God.

                    And Wild... Live... people have lives... your questions and jabs are not the only thing I have to contend with daily. Stop patting yourselves on the back so much and pay attention to the facts.

                    What a laugh.

                    And to whoever you where...

                    Abomination;

                    Definition of ABOMINATION

                    1: something abominable

                    2: extreme disgust and hatred : loathing

                    Yup... perfect.

                    And as to the rest of you all... "tolerance", and, "acceptance"... are two very different things. Christians are to tolerate the sinful acts and choices of others... not to accept them into their lives and embrace them as normal, natural, and morally acceptable.

                    Pretty simple.

                    And I have not been discussing marriage... you were.

                    1. 0
                      Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I watched a short film recently on Youtube, which reminded of Mason.  It is quite funny.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncd7oaaY … re=related

                    2. livelonger profile image90
                      livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Color me unsurprised. You went on another homophobic rant to avoid the question of what the Bible, specifically Jesus himself, said about divorce, something you think Christians should accept because "people have lives."

                      Matthew 5: 31-32
                      Matthew 19:9
                      Mark 10:11-12
                      Luke 16:18

                      So, explicitly, Jesus says that divorce and remarriage is the same as adultery, which is an abomination that lands you squarely in hell. His words, not mine.

                      So, unless you've never remarried yourself, you should be careful of what you ask other people to find immoral, since the guy you pretend to worship has made it exceedingly clear that you're in the wrong.

                      1. TMMason profile image73
                        TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                        What are you talking about?

                        Where would you get that I am divorced?

                        You have no clue what you are talking about, Live. Amazing... the BS that spouts from you all. I have not made one representation towards divorce in either way... and you're off on some self praising rant.

                        Just amazing...

                        And you know... I have never claimed to be perfect at all... but that doesn't mean I throw away all my morals and embrace immorality and un-natural behaivour as normal and acceptable... what a joke.

                    3. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I use funny logic and if mocking works, so be it. I think it’s wonderful to simplified, simplified simplified as long is. The only rule is-is: not to harm

                      Hitler tried to simplify and was a devoted Christian, when he went completely MAD nobody knows. His goal was to stamp out gays and Jews. Not to mention 20 million Russian hoping to stamp out atheists too.

                      Hitler appeared to be truly devoted to Germany and Christians. He promised to stamp out big city corruption. He called for a spiritual revolution

                    4. thebrucebeat profile image59
                      thebrucebeatposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      So you think an abomination is extreme disgust and loathing?

                      I guess we won't be hearing from you that you don't hate gays anymore, then will we?

                      So you never responded to why you don't exhibit any of the Fruits of the Spirit, which Paul says are how we can identify someone who is truly infused with the Holy Spirit.  Why do you not aspire to these traits?

      27. TMMason profile image73
        TMMasonposted 5 years ago

        Homophobia; The act of refusing to embrace the immoral and un-natural... as "moral" and "natural". The act of refusing to buy into the lies of Leftist Homosexual propaganda groups.

        Yes. That is me.

        Gimme a break. Anytime someone doesn't agree with you they are a homophobic... what a laugh. As good as Islamophobla... whooooww... lol you all are A RIOT.

        1. Evolution Guy profile image61
          Evolution Guyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Homosexuality is immoral? How is that the case? Did the Invisible Super Daddy tell you this into your head? And how come you are using un-natural computers to communicate? Color me not at all surprised by your hypocrisy. sad

        2. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Nobody gets harmed in my ROITS or can't imagine leading the killing feilds.

          1. TMMason profile image73
            TMMasonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Please translate.

            The killing fields were the Communists, Pol Pot... Leftists, not Right-wing.

            So I have no idea what you are speaking of.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Left or right, front or back, it’s all connected,

              I thought Jesus was communist, he seem alright to me.

              Nobody has died directly from cannabis unless its police or cartel related, in which that war has gone on the longest.

              I build history displays and the Christian group leads in prisons, murders, and wars

      28. No_Clue profile image80
        No_Clueposted 5 years ago

        A person "chooses" to be attracted to the same sex in the same fashion that another "chooses" to be attracted to the opposite sex. It is not a choice, it is hard-wired in the brain.

      29. MelissaBarrett profile image60
        MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago

        abomination this, abomination that...

        You keep saying that... I don't think it means what you think it means.

        But if my church is an abomination then so be it.  At least I won't be sharing eternity with the narrow minded and bigoted. You all can have your big ole fluffy cloud and spend your time annoying the big guy by telling him what he said.

        Does anyone in here know whether the music in hell is chosen by the gays or the lesbians?  I just want to know if I'll be listening to Madonna or Melissa Ethridge.

        1. Cagsil profile image82
          Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently, you'll be listening to both? lol lol (j/k)

          There is no hell and there is no heaven either. Both words are metaphors, used in his teachings, but were distorted by religion. wink

        2. 0
          Sherlock221bposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          It must be the lesbians, because I know for a fact that God is a huge fan of Judy Garland, and that The Sound of Music karaoke evenings are mandatory in heaven.  So the lesbians must choose the music for the other place.

      30. Midasfx profile image63
        Midasfxposted 5 years ago

        Do people choose to be gay?

        ~ Yes, Yes they do.

      31. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
        SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago

        ...oh  my gawd...this is still getting flippin' 'air play'?  lol

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Half of the country still thinks Obama was born in Kenya...are you really surprised?

          1. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
            SomewayOuttaHereposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            no...i guess not....lol

            ...Canuck here....

          2. Midasfx profile image63
            Midasfxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I have known a few lesbians in my life and every single one of them is a lesbian for a reason. Most reasons start with a male figure in their life mistreating them or being exposed to overly manly or overly girly relationships early on in their childhood. This is solely based on my experience with talking with friends about this specific topic.

            I do think its highly childish to simply put someones opinions down in such a manner though. This is a topic up for debt. One should be ready for the augmentative statements as well as the ones which concur with your beliefs. Might as well as to start calling each other stupid, no your stupid... etc.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm bi-sexual for a really good reason... boobies make me smile. As far as any other traumatic reasons roll

              I'm not attracted to blonds though, of either sex.  Apparently I must have been molested by a blond guy... or would that be a ginger, as they are the most attractive to me... Or was it a brunette women who was too masculine... or a bald man who was too feminine.... Holy crap, I'm gonna have to go to a hypnotherapist.  Apparently everyone had a go at me and I don't remember ANY of it.

              1. thighhighchick profile image59
                thighhighchickposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Boobies among other things make me smile too.

              2. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
                R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I have a shirt that reads (truthfully) "boobies make me smile" I like to wear it to Wal-mart.

            2. recommend1 profile image72
              recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The most common abuse of gay people of all gender in early life has been shown to be connected to their inability to fit into the narrow confines that their family and school insist upon.  This abuse contiues in later life as people around them ensure that they do not 'fit' into the environment.  Rejection of what we do not understand or that is different to our immediate familiar environment is a normal human reaction, the more able to reason we are the more we are able to rise above it, it is no accident that the most stupid and the most naive people are homophobic.  It is also no accident that the religious apologists fall into this category also, the slimy hypocritical manner in which only the sexual act is wrong but 'we love the people' could only come from the slimy warped minds of the religious.

              1. earnestshub profile image89
                earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I agree with every word. smile

        2. Eaglekiwi profile image76
          Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Things that go bump in the night  lol

      32. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        I just love how the OT is always denied as source due to the hate filled scripture until some narrow minded bigot decides it will win an argument! lol

      33. AgesMGMT profile image61
        AgesMGMTposted 5 years ago

        hang out with some gay people and ask them.  I really think that the only people who think that being Gay is a choice are the people who have never had a gay friend.

        1. earnestshub profile image89
          earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          True dat!
          I worked with several gay people for a bit over a year and found them to be moral in every way. I have met gays who were a bit over the top personality wise, but honest with themselves, and still great fun to be around.

          I guess there are as many bad gays as there are bad non gays per capita, but my guess is most of them have more empathy than we straight folk, as we haven't spent our lives being abused and left out of things because of our sexuality. smile
          We also have a lot of rights such as property rights we take for granted. smile
          PLEASE don't anyone tell me they have the same rights under law, it is simply untrue, and I will dig up the necessary proof. smile

      34. Eaglekiwi profile image76
        Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago

        If you could leave religion out of the equation for a moment ( just try)

        If we can  respect one anothers choices ,then go ahead do whatever you want (sexually).

        I dont want you to tell me who I can sleep with ,when,or how,so I will not tell you.

        But never tell me your choice is right for us all.

        1. livelonger profile image90
          livelongerposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Unsurprisingly, you're using a strawman argument.

          Who is advocating homosexuality for all? Nobody.

          Who is advocating heterosexuality for all? Think about that carefully, please.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image76
            Eaglekiwiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Im not really into all that forum jargon,guess Im generalising because its quicker and covers more bases wink

            1. 60
              E is for Elissaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Hello all....

              We are not born Gay... God did not create people to be gay or lesbian. Think about our anatomy.... Men are made to fit into women.  I'm not saying that it is proof, but it is something to think about... it can't be proof until you believe that it is proof.   Most of you will say that it isn't, some of you will say that it is, I certainly believe it is proof... but there is so much more proof in the bible. There are many  things in the bible, that proove that God didn't create people to be gay.   

              Listen to the next thing that I am going to say carefully though....
              Some Christians may have told some of  you that God hates gay's and lesbians... they are wrong. I am a christian too,,, and I know that God does not hate anyone. God loves everyone equally,,, in fact He is concerned for those who are Gay...  just like He is concerned for those who sin (which, by the way, is all of us)... He loves us all! He wants us all to love Him back, but He gave us a choice. He hasn't forced anyone to love Him and not sin, because He wanted us to be free to choose and free to live.
              The thing is I chose to love Him... but I still sin... I try not to... but I do... thankfully I have accepted what Jesus did on the cross for me, and now my sins are forgiven. I am trying to live a life without sin... which I know isn't going to happen, but I am trying anyway. Either way, God forgives me.

              To all those christians out there who say that God hates homosexuals, you are wrong!  We all sin... and all sins are the same to God, because all sin seperates us from Him. The act of murder is worse than the act of lying, but the sin is the same... you know I'm right! I think is terrible for you to accuse homosexuals, you have looked at the splinter in someones eye, and not thought about the plank in your own.

              To all homosexuals. God loves you, and I love you. We don't condone that you love someone of the same sex, but we don't hate you for it. I am praying for you all.

              Blessings.

              1. recommend1 profile image72
                recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                This is one of the most slimy, condescending pieces of drivel I have seen in these threads - the religionists are clearly well into their stupor preceding liftoff, thank f***  !

              2. Woman Of Courage profile image59
                Woman Of Courageposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Very well stated Elissa smile

                1. 60
                  E is for Elissaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you Lovely smile
                  Just saying what I know is true. If people accuse me, I don't care. I am praying for them. 

                  God bless you!

              3. R.S. Hutchinson profile image85
                R.S. Hutchinsonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                not ALL guys fit into women... some of us, u know..  r a bit too ... "manly"....just sayin tongue

      35. earnestshub profile image89
        earnestshubposted 5 years ago

        What a condescending pile that was! lol

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I thought so too,

          hi earnest

          Sin/forgive, sin/forgive and for what purpose, just to worship the one only Jesus and shut your mind off .

          I am getting that numb feeling all over again.

          1. earnestshub profile image89
            earnestshubposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I know that feeling.
            Some people cannot absorb anything they don't already believe.

            It would be refreshing is any of the religionists could offer anything to the discussion above scripture which most of the non believers know better than they do anyway! lol

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I am offering sarcasm and thinly veiled insults about intelligence levels and hypocracy.  So don't say a religionist never gave you anything smile

       
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