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Gay vs. abnormal

  1. LailaK profile image79
    LailaKposted 4 years ago

    Do you find being gay/lesbian a normal aspect of life? How about gay/lesbian marriage? Would you support your best friend if they turned gay/lesbian?

    1. Castlepaloma profile image22
      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you have a normal sized brain?

      1. pisean282311 profile image57
        pisean282311posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        lol

    2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      People don't "turn" gay...they simply and finally submit to the truth of who they are and then act on that truth.  Many pretend to be straight because they fear the way society will treat them, and society generally does not treat them well because they don't follow what people consider to be the "normal" way of life. 

      The world we live in today is not the world of the past.  Back in the day, people hid their homosexuality.  Today, many are "right in your face" about it.  I think this is where people have problems with it. 

      It is very difficult for many straight people to "see" gay people holding hands, kissing and even marrying.  To them, this is abnormal behavior and is upsetting.

      The truth is that gay people have all of the same feelings as straight people.  Love is love, no matter what the gender.

      I guess the bottom line is this:  straight people would be more accepting of homosexual people if they would tone down their overt behaviors.  Insisting on being called "married" is offensive to straight people who view marriage as a commitment between a man and a woman.  If they would accept some other terminology that would give them all the same rights as married couples but be called something else such as "civil union", I think everybody would be better off. 

      Gays should accept the fact that they are a minority group and, as such, need to make some compromises so that their lives can be better.  Until they are willing to do that, they will be shunned by many, and will suffer in other ways.  It's a sad truth, but it is still the truth.

      1. wilderness profile image98
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Absolutely.  Gay people must be a little more politically correct in the use of their terminology and desires to be equal. 

        The Christian bigots of the country have changed and reserved the term "married" to indicate a civil bond between man and woman, with their God giving his approval and gay people have to use something else.  By trying to use the same term to mean a civil union (sometimes with their God's approval) they deeply offend those bigots that demand their way is the only way.

        Gays must learn that they cannot be equal and that they must kowtow to the straight people in all things, particularly the disgusting idea that two men or two women can actually love each other and wish to make a life together.  They are indeed a minority and must understand that they therefore cannot ever be equal to, or accepted by, the mainstream population of Christian bigots.  They must learn to control their behavior so as not to offend by using actions the far right has now declared are theirs and theirs alone.

        Sorry, a giant thumbs down on this one. sad

        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Wilderness:  For someone who is so quick to condemn others as being bigoted, you're mighty bigoted yourself.  Nobody said anything about Gays not being equal and nobody referred to anybody's religious beliefs here.  Society is what it is, whether you agree or not.  Nobody is asking homosexuals to "kowtow" to anybody, but as with all minorities (of which I am one, by the way) gays need to tread carefully on their way through life.  Everybody else has to be politically correct these days, so why should gay people not follow suit?

          You can "thumbs down" all you like, but getting in people's faces about their views is not going to fix or change anything.  In fact, doing this just causes further irritation and sets back the viewpoints which you, yourself, want to champion.

          There will come a time when society as a whole will embrace ALL of our differences, but right now, this is not the case.  Until that happens (which I suspect will be many years down the road), all minority groups need to do what they can to protect themselves.

          If using a different set of words to assure gays all of the legal rights to which they feel they are entitled as couples will smooth their path, what is the harm?

          All societies throughout history have viewed marriage as a commitment between a man and a woman.  They have also viewed marriage as the proper way for people to procreate.  You are fighting thousands upon thousands of years of standard thinking, and I suspect your chances of winning this battle are slim.

          1. kerryg profile image88
            kerrygposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            "All societies throughout history have viewed marriage as a commitment between a man and a woman."

            Not true. Some have viewed (and in some cases still view) marriage as a commitment between a man and women. A few have viewed it as a commitment between a woman and men. And yes, there have been traditional societies that accepted same sex marriages, mainly tribal societies in Africa and North America. I posted some links to ethnographies describing the practice in another recent thread - I'm sure I can dig them back up again if you don't believe me.

            So, when you say "all societies throughout history" you really mean our society, and "throughout history" is a bit of a stretch any way you look at it. Marriage laws in the US have changed many times in the last 400 years:

            http://i40.tinypic.com/n3p4jd.jpg

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              This is very interesting, and I thank you for the info.  When I posted, I was thinking in terms of heterosexuality in general, not just one man, one woman.  Clearly polygamy is accepted in some societies.  I also was talking about major societal groups, not minor ones such as African tribes.  I can see why those societies might condone homosexual marriages due to the limited number of people they might have in their tribes.  And I was not talking here of how laws have changed.  This wasn't about laws, it was about general societal views and/or condemnation of certain behaviors.  But again, this was interesting info that I hadn't thought about before.  Thanks for the post.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              ++

          2. wilderness profile image98
            wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, TT2 - you said they are not equal.  Right when you propose that they must act differently than their nature, that they must hide their "equality" in the closet and that they must be denied the same rights that others have.  Exactly the same way the people used to say that women are weak and stupid - that they need to stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and quite trying to claim equality with the supreme male sex and demanding equal rights with them.

            I'm afraid that I'm not very PC myself.  They aren't "undocumented immigrants" - they are illegal aliens.  They aren't "physically challenged" - they are in a wheelchair, handicapped.  They aren't always "less fortunate" - some are just lazy.

            It is true these terms can be, and usually should be, modified to the current notion of what is less offensive or obnoxious.  But when a group of people decide that they are superior and everyone else must conform to their ideas of propriety, of morality, of right and wrong, it should not be soft pedaled.  They need their feelings hurt, they need to recognize and have it shoved down their throat that they are wrong.  Sometimes it is best to call an apple and apple, and I won't apologize for doing it.  If they are bigots, supreme in their judgement that only their opinion is the right one, then I will use the appropriate term. 

            Neither will I apologize for naming the single most powerful and active group trying to keep gays in the closet, out of sight.  Remember the California vote?  Where thousands of Mormons and millions of Mormon dollars poured into the state in an effort to continue the oppression?  If it turns out (as it most certainly does) that it is primarily the Christians of this nation fighting equality for a minority, then let it be known.  Tell it like it is and don't feel obligated to apologize when you (or I) do so.

            These things (bigotry) don't change by speaking softly and tip toeing around the subject so as not to hurt someone's feelings or make them angry.  Blacks in the back of the bus - what's the problem?  They're still on the bus aren't they?  Whites and Blacks can't marry - what's the problem?  They can still live together (on the wrong side of the tracks and out of my neighborhood).  Black kids go to their own schools - what's the problem?  They still go to school, after all.  An inferior one, without educated teachers, air conditioning or books, but they're still in school!

            Gays, just like blacks, women and all the other minorities in this country (everyone now days) are going to have to fight for their rights.  Hiding in the closet and keeping their mouth shut won't get them anything - history has unfortunately shown us all too often that using that tactic in the hopes of getting change actually changes nothing.  People have a very nasty propensity for demanding that the rest of the world fit into their own mold and without the willingness to fight that attitude gays will never be seen as a "real" person, deserving of the same things everyone else has. 

            And that, TT2, is the problem with soft-pedaling the gay marriage thing.  Without the rest of the nation forcing it down their throat the bigots of the country will continue to oppress anyone any different.  Those minorities they don't like (usually everyone else) are not real people, are not morally correct, need to be stamped on (and stamped hard) to keep them out of right thinking society.  We don't need to back off and hope the gays retreat into their closet once more; we need to shout it from the rooftops that such actions as the Christians (and a handful of others, it is true) take to keep them in their place is unacceptable.

            1. kerryg profile image88
              kerrygposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              +1

              1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                On a positive note, I propose full acceptance, by society at large, of gay couples having an equal place in society. 

                Why?  Because the union of two persons in love is a great foundation for a successful society.  In the case of gay couples, they are not going to ADD more people to the world, which is already overpopulated.  The gay couple can, and will be encouraged to if they wish, support and nurture other less fortunate individuals, in particular the children and youth who are otherwise living very difficult, uncomfortable lives, because their own biological families are unable to support them. They can offer support to families which are falling on hard times. 

                Also, gay couples are well known for their contributions to society in other ways.  The work they do, in what ever profession or trade, is usually done really well, often better than many others.  With the mutual support they give each other, their lives are often more stable and happier.

                So much can be learned from gay people.  Ignoring their contributions deprives society of enormous assets which are often wasted.

            2. 0
              Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              -100.

              NO you don't "need to shove it down people's throats"
              and
              NO you don't have a right to.

              1. Paul Wingert profile image79
                Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "Good Christians" have been shoving their bigoted beliefs down other people's throat for a couple thousand years now and the gays and lesbian community are going through the same struggle as women, blacks and other minorities. Interesting how women out number men in this country and they were given the right to vote less than a 100 years ago.

              2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I prefer to think of it as "You have the right to try and stand in the way and we have the right to try and run you over"

                Does that make it easier?

                But yes, it has come to the point that we do have to fight for what we see as our rights.  We are determined to get them and asking politely hasn't worked.  We have the right to not consider our opponents feelings about it as they have failed to consider ours.  You don't like political correctness so I'll save you from it.

                Those who oppose gay marriage have made it necessary to "shove it down your throat" and the constitutional rights to freedom of speech and religion and the right to assemble and petition has given us the right to do just that.

                In short, you told us we couldn't do something and failed to be of a high enough authority to make that decision.  As we are winning our fight we are likely to be obnoxious about it too.  Human nature and all.

                1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                  A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Be there a "like button" somewhere?

              3. livelonger profile image89
                livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Funny.

                If you feel homosexuality or gay rights are being forced upon you, then why do you gravitate towards EVERY forum thread that even remotely addresses one of these topics? I mean, really, ANY forum thread about gay anything and it's 3...2...1...

                Why not continue to maintain a presence in a world where you know NO ONE who is gay, so where homosexuality, gay marriage, and gay rights are remote, abstract concepts, like the parliamentary politics of Cambodia, or life forms in distant galaxies?

                Is it because you find it convenient to project condemnation on other people's sins when you don't want to face your own?

                1. becauseilive profile image85
                  becauseiliveposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I COULD NOT agree more.

                2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I think it's a promotion that runs along side God's "Save 10 souls against their will and receive a free set of steak knives" referral program.

                  This one is " 20 cents off each gallon of gasoline for every 10 times you state your moral superiority"

                  The Religious Right is offended for some reason.  They don't see that the gay rights movement is just trying to include them.   After all they've been telling gays that they are going to hell for so long that we just decided to be friendly and tell them that they could go there too.

                3. 0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  roll
                  Says the man who, like clockwork, jumps on my posts and tries to escalate  things to a personal-insult level almost EVERY single time.

                  Just so you know, I don't have a problem with gays, unless and until they try to make it my problem.  And some of them, in particular liberal activists, have done so, on a National level even.  They have a problem and I pray they find the right way to deal with that temptation. I just have a problem with them or you or anyone trying to force everyone else to sanction it morally and legally.   Many people understand that, including many gays.  But you don't, I'm sure, as is painfully evident in your words.

                  1. livelonger profile image89
                    livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I've said that when I notice your bigoted posts related to homosexuality, I will happily chime in. I'm not sure why your remarks should be respected when there's nothing even remotely respectful about them.

                    Yes, the fact that gays and lesbians are enjoying their lives honestly somewhere on US soil bothers you. You even admit they're not shoving anything down your throat, but simply living their lives in a way that you don't understand or approve of.

                    Keep on saying that loud and often, Brenda. You're an unwitting proponent of the gay rights movement. big_smile

              4. maddartist profile image88
                maddartistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                " NO you don't "need to shove it down people's throats"
                and
                NO you don't have a right to. "

                Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
                and the "-100" was pretty cute.

            3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Wilderness:  Boy, you sure read a lot into what people say!  You need to read my original post again!  I did not say gays were unequal and I never said I wanted them to "stay in the closet".  I did say that, as with myself, they are a minority group and as such should do whatever it takes to protect themselves. People like you who push them to "get in people's faces" are also the ones urging themselves to put themselves in harm's way considering how things are in today's society.  I've read too many stories about gay bashing, beating and killings.  If they can avoid this by simply changing the wording for what we call marriage, I don't think that would be considered "soft pedaling"...I think it would be the politically correct thing for them to do...which, by the way, is nothing more than many of us out here have to do every single day.

              By not treading carefully yourself, you give the impression of being a person who is angling for a fight on many fronts, and I suspect you will get one some day...and it won't be pretty.  Just because you want that, it doesn't mean that's what the world wants or needs.  Isn't there enough pain in the world?  Do you feel the need to cause more?  You are not protecting gays, blacks, women or any other group...you are using them so that you can have a bully pulpit and frankly, I don't think much of it.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                We allow freedom of Religion. now allow others to live and let liver have things in their face or shove down their throat, and I mean in words.

                Have I said, too much?

            4. amfree4aII profile image60
              amfree4aIIposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              My son went from a predominantly caucasian high school in Pennsylvania (one of the best in the state academically) to a high school in San Diego which was a mishmash of black/asian/white.  The contrast between these two schools could not have been greater.  The S.D. school graded on a sliding scale.  When my son came to the school, it affected the grades of the dumber students because his grades were so high.  He would come home every day telling me what went on.  In the cafeteria, the black students would go directly to the head of the line, every day, even if dozens were waiting before them.  Rap music blared from speakers during lunch.  These same students would cross a busy highway outside the school, making the traffic stop.  They would board a public bus to go home with a monthly bus pass then hand it out the window to another student to use.  Essentially, my son learned how to cheat in that school and not much else.  The teachers spent most of the class time waking up sleeping students (by banging a ruler down on their desks) and being interrupted by cell phones vibrating across desks inside purses (cell phones were, of course, banned).  One teacher had the good sense to mock the huge comb sticking out of the hair of one of the dumber students.  The gym teacher was a 60-year old black woman who did jumping jacks bra-less.  I withdrew my son from this school within a few months.  I will forever rue the day I removed him from his academically superior school in Pa. and subjected him to a mixed school environment.  I have asked his forgiveness.

      2. viryabo profile image87
        viryaboposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        +1

      3. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This kind of compromising doesn't lead to authentic change.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image22
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Live and let live  dose not lead to change, why not?

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I was specifically referring to where Time Traveller said:

            "...Today, many are "right in your face" about it.  I think this is where people have problems with it. 

            It is very difficult for many straight people to "see" gay people holding hands, kissing and even marrying.  To them, this is abnormal behavior and is upsetting.

            The truth is that gay people have all of the same feelings as straight people.  Love is love, no matter what the gender.

            I guess the bottom line is this:  straight people would be more accepting of homosexual people if they would tone down their overt behaviors..."

            That's like black people having to straighten their hair, dress like their white counterparts, talk like them, be EXACTLY how they are in order to be liked by them. THAT is not true acceptance. As a black woman, I should be able to wear my hair natural, choose a different style of dress, etc., and be accepted into my society, even though I am "different." I shouldn't have to straighten my hair or dress as they see as appropriate, or act in a way they deem as appropriate, just because otherwise they would be "uncomfortable." That is not true acceptance. (And yet we do it every day... Anyway, I digress)

            Gay people should not have to hide their affection just because it makes some straight people "uncomfortable." Good, they need to be a little of uncomfortable and finally come to realize why they need to get over it.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              agree

            2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
              Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "...Today, many are "right in your face" about it.  I think this is where people have problems with it.

              I see a double-standard here. When a straight couple walk down the street holding hands, nobody has a problem with it, but if a gay couple were to do the same thing, a lot of folks would freak right out, and say that the gay couple shouldn't be so "in your face" about their relationship.

              If a straight couple share a kiss at a restaurant, nobody even blinks, but if a gay couple were to share a kiss at a restaurant--and I'm not talking about tonsil hockey or anything, just a quick "hello kiss"--lots of people would freak right out, and say that the gay couple shouldn't be so "in your face" about their relationship.

              Well, if the strait couple can be in-your-face, why should the gay couple have to hide their relationship?  If you're uncomfortable seeing that kind of thing, then you can bloody well look at something else!

              1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                WELL SAID ! cool

              2. 0
                Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree.  A person can look at something else.  They could even leave the restaurant and find a different restaurant where they don't have to tolerate perversion.

                Quite a slippery slope in the making.  But if that's how it has to be, perhaps it will be.

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Those who don't want to tolerate perversion can even choose to leave Internet forums where it is tolerated (and encouraged!) and go elsewhere, The power is in their hands. If they stay, it's proof that they not only tolerate perversion, but are drawn to it.

                  1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    There's so much truth to that statement...

                  2. 0
                    Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    But, livelonger, then no one would ever attempt to teach you not to stalk personally and insult everyone who publicly speaks out against homosexuality, now would they?

                    P.S. Your last statement is blatantly false.  So, I guess no one ever taught you how to not lie either.

    3. amymarie_5 profile image89
      amymarie_5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Nobody can magically turn gay. You are born that way. I do not judge people and choose my friends based on their character not on sexual orientation.

    4. AEvans profile image71
      AEvansposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ummmm.... I have friends who are a part of the LGBT so none of it bothers me at all. As for them turning gay, there are many who are born that way. I don't care what anyone feels about the truth but God did not make all of us heterosexual no matter what anyone believes. He did make all of us in his own image; therefore all of us are brothers and sisters. Everyone is entitled to happiness and joy. I don't even know why we have this discussion, but I did have to put my 2 cents in.

    5. relache profile image87
      relacheposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, yes and yes.

    6. KJAB911 profile image60
      KJAB911posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Do you find being gay/lesbian a normal aspect of life? (Yes, definitely. I find it completely natural and normal.)

      How about gay/lesbian marriage? (Of course. I find it as normal as I find straight marriages. There's absolutely nothing abnormal about it.)

      Would you support your best friend if they turned gay/lesbian? (ABSOLUTELY! Being lesbian myself, I would definitely support any my friends that turn gay/lesbian. And I have many friends that support me so of course I would support them in return.)

    7. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      seriously? roll um ...............

    8. FatFreddysCat profile image93
      FatFreddysCatposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      In the immortal words of Ted Nugent, "You can f*** buffalo for all I care, just don't make me watch."

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        you mean like Scott Norwood did?

        http://cdn.theboxhouston.com/files/2010/08/WideRight-Norwood1.jpg

    9. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The heading is totally misleading "Gay vs. abnormal" Gay is abnormal so how does it verse itself?  That would be like satan doing battle against himself or one of his followers.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Being homosexual is perfectly normal, dear.  We would not ask you to try it, you would probably not be a good lover. 

        The insistence on "Husband, Wife and two Kids" setup is pretty abnormal. So is sitting in a church every Sunday morning, gawking at an individual preaching at you, about how you have been a naughty boy/girl.  This is handing all your responsibilities to "someone up there," so you can become lazy. 

        And this business of "being forgiven" by Him up there.... very convenient, so you can do what you damn well like all week, then go and get cleansed, ready to have fun again for the next week.

        My connection with the wonderful world, every day, and taking responsibility for my own actions, stops with me.  No god or jesus involved, thank you.

    10. 0
      Deborah Sextonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      *************

      It's very rude to call anyone abnormal. You've just insulted many people. Are you happy with yourself?

      Are you abnormal?

    11. A Thousand Words profile image80
      A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Why not?

    12. SidKemp profile image94
      SidKempposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.
      I actually find it sad when anyone makes an issue of another person's preferences. Why is a preference for sex with people of the same sex, or the opposite sex, more important than a preference for, say, broccoli or carrots?

      Wouldn't we all be better off just accepting that different people have different preferences?

      I seek not to judge. I do evaluate, but in terms of whether people cause harm. Hatred, violence, and thoughtless acts that injure ourselves and others are reasons for compassion, and for distancing ourselves to ensure safety from such behaviors.

      Other than that, to each his/her own taste!

    13. nightwork4 profile image59
      nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      i don't even know what normal is. do i find people obsessed with celebrities normal, do i find people who think every thing is a mental illness normal, do i find religious nuts normal. what is normal. as for gays, it's not a choice, it's how they are. they aren't hurting anyone, they aren't pushing their views on anyone so i guess they are as "normal" as anyone could be.

  2. 0
    The Writers Dogposted 4 years ago

    Being GLBTI is as normal as being "straight". It is the way you are born. You do not wake up one morning and decide "I am gay". I have GLBTI friends and "straight" friends. I do not think of them as one or the other, they are all my friends and they are all normal.

  3. Paul Wingert profile image79
    Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago

    There are over 400 animal species,including humans, where homosexuality exists. So yes, being gay/lesbian is normal.

    1. LailaK profile image79
      LailaKposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      But if it was normal, why do you think individuals have to go out of their way to have kids?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Because many of us have been programmed or hard wired to be breeders and go out and over populate and pollute  the earth, unless we slow down the over breeders system, in which we have to 1/3 since the 1950s

        A lot more work has to be done, lets all act a little more gay

        1. Paul Wingert profile image79
          Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Homosexuality is suppose to be natures way of population growth. I can't imagine what the US population will be in 100 years. I'm willing to bet that we will enact a "one child only" law like China.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image22
            Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I have much more faith in people than in Religion or Politicization to slow down our over breeding ways for the sake of the greater good.

            Imagine billions of Americans that would be Sodom and Gomorrah X 100

          2. maddartist profile image88
            maddartistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            See, homosexuality in society just makes sense. It seems without gays, overpopulation would be even more of a problem, as well as the number of orphans needing a home.

            PS. love your Gomez/John Astin avatar smile

            1. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Make sense to me and to most earthling on the planet

              Let's make some posters

              Make love, not babies
              Make love, not debt
              Make love, not Religious wars

              I don't know, if that last one will fly

      2. kerryg profile image88
        kerrygposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Evolution supports survival of the species, not survival of the individual.

        In a species such as ours that requires such intensive and extended care during childhood, it makes sense to have some non-breeding individuals hanging around to help spread the workload. This is likely why human women experience menopause (we're the only ape and one of the only species of any kind that does) and may also contribute to the prevalence of homosexuality.

        1. amymarie_5 profile image89
          amymarie_5posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Interesting.

        2. Paul Wingert profile image79
          Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Chimps, rhesus monkeys, pilot whales, elephants, and some whale experience menopause.

      3. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
        SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Um hi, not every straight man and straight woman is fertile. And, TECHNICALLY, diseases were natures way of eliminating overpopulation. Research that, you may surprise yourself. We have tried to cure every disease out there. We save a lot of severely disabled infants. We keep people on life support when they would be completely dead without it.

        Now, please, I am not turning this into a human rights issue/abortion/anything in those categories; I am keeping my beliefs personal since this isn't about that. But really, procreation is a weak argument. If EVERYONE could procreate forever, we'd have a whole other problem. Life, birth, death, infertility, disease, no desire to have kids, homosexuality- everything is connected and keeps the world going. What if nobody died? What id menopause wasn't real? What if EVERY couple wanted to biologically have children? If we take out any of these elements, we are left with a problem. Orphans would have a harder time finding homes. The world would overpopulate.

        Food for thought smile

      4. nightwork4 profile image59
        nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        with that train of thought , does that mean people who can't have kids are abnormal?

  4. 0
    The Writers Dogposted 4 years ago

    "When I am I going to be a grandmother/father?"
    "When are you going to meet a nice boy/girl and settle down?"
    "All of your brothers/sisters are married and having children."

  5. prettydarkhorse profile image61
    prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago

    When you choose friends it is best to choose them based on the content of their hearts and not because of their color, orientation etc. You should be ready to support them as well specially in their pursuit of happiness - like being married.

  6. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 4 years ago

    to the OP..yes to all 3....q3 is a bit confusing for me in relation to 'turning gay'..i don't think folks 'turn gay'...they are just g/l...just being who they are...

  7. 60
    suziesunshine3posted 4 years ago

    i would def support any of my friends no matter what sexuality they are after all they are my friends because of who they are not because of there sexual preference!!!!

  8. Kangaroo_Jase profile image79
    Kangaroo_Jaseposted 4 years ago

    People will continue to fail when its more important to worry about what country they came from, what level of education they have, what their financial standing is, what colour there skin is, what god they believe in or religion they practice or don't believe in a god or follow a religion and which sex/s they prefer to fall in love with.

  9. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    can we all agree that many lesbians are very pretty!?!?

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LMAO.  Nope.  Sorry.

      1. 0
        BethDWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well that's offensive...how would you like it if someone told you that you weren't/could never be pretty, without even meeting you, just because you are a member of some minority group? That whole stereotype of the bull-dyke with the crew cut and combat boots is b.s. concocted by some small-minded straight men who want to feel better about being rejected by an entire segment of the female population that has no use for them... Most of the lesbian women I know are completely stunning.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ummm... I think you are confused about something I've posted.  I happen to think I'm kinda pretty myself... and I feel the same way about the women I have dated.

          1. 0
            BethDWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Greek One: "can we all agree that many lesbians are very pretty!?!?"
            Directly below...
            MelissaBarret: "LMAO. Nope. Sorry."

            Thus the source of my confusion...lol.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              *grins*  I left my sarcasm font off that day.

              1. 0
                BethDWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Haha. Gotcha.

        2. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
          SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I think she was just jokin :-P

        3. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You only have four, and 4 weeks have passed, Brenda.  Have you run out yet? roll

          Beth, I have enjoyed reading the recent posts here.  There is a good mixture of laughter and seriousness. 

          The very serious posts about rejection, etc., have our attention and our compassion, I feel.  Not to be derided at all. 

          The humour is needed very much to lighten our outlook on life.  Thank "god," if I am allowed to drop my guard for a moment(!), for us gays who are past masters at self-flagellation.

          1. 0
            Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I bet you really would like to know, wouldn't ya?! roll

    2. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
      SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      HEY! Some of us work out, have long hair, and wear make up!!!

      1. 0
        BethDWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen.

  10. mythbuster profile image84
    mythbusterposted 4 years ago

    Gender, family structure, marriage, many aspects of "race," and many aspects of rules within religion - these are all social constructions.

    Currently, there is a strong argument for straight couples/married parents and same-race children as being "the norm," and "the best" family/marriage situation - however, this is an ARGUMENT, not a truth.

    Paul Wingert made a strong point early on in this thread:

    "There are over 400 animal species,including humans, where homosexuality exists. So yes, being gay/lesbian is normal."

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Every argument which could be used to justify homosexuality could also be used by a pedophile to justify pedophilia....and it already is. Is there a line which shouldn't be crossed, or do we have to make one?

      1. livelonger profile image89
        livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Are you kidding?

        Children can not consent to sexual relationships. Adults can.

        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02:  This is a link to an eye opening article from the Family Research Council that clearly points out the fallacies in the arguments in favor of gay marriage. Everybody contributing to this post should read it.  The statements made within it are based on actual research.  I'm going to make sure everybody I know sees it so that we can bring this issue back to reality.

          1. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            A hate group recognized by the SPLC:
            http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i … ch-council

            It's not "actual research" unless it survives the rigor of peer review. Naturally, their pseudoscientific propaganda hasn't.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Here something from that SPLC
              “One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets of a new sexual order.’”

              --1999 FRC pamphlet, Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex with Boys.

              I have met a lot of gays in my line of work and never heard of  Homosexual who embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion or acted  like a pedophile.

              There are million cases of US Clergyman molesting children. In which I have more respect for a gay dog or if someone who wants to marry their dog

      2. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Druid Dude, we DON'T use the same argument.  It is not logical to do so.  It does not have any sense to connect the two, homosexuality and pedophilia.  With respect to your personal feelings about homosexuality, if you have a problem with it, but the two are not even connected in reality. 

        Being homosexual does not mean in any way that he/she is attracted to or a danger to children.  Of course it does not  This idea might be uppermost in the minds of ignorant, prejudiced individuals who know nothing of the facts, and only rely on here-say obtained from mates.

        From what I have read, most cases of child molestation occur with the involvement of close family members, and are perpetrated by heterosexual persons on their own children or nephews/nieces.

        I have known gay couples who have lived full and beautifully loving lives for many years.  The longest I can recall lived for 45 years before the older partner passed away.  I have also known children within these partnerships grow up to be integrated, sensible, sociable and heterosexual adults.  This is the NORMAL situation with families of same-gender couples.

        Why?  Because being gay is NOT infectious!  We are human.  Does that surprise anyone?

      3. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
        SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I want to play devils advocate a little bit here. But read my ENTIRE post before criticizing. PS, link doesn't work sad I will try to keep this short and concise, as now I want to write a hub about it.

        In many ways, I feel that ALL attraction falls under the same category. Some people are attracted to much older people, some children, some of the same sex, some family members, etc. HOWEVER, not all of these relationships work. Humans are selfish in nature: I watched a special that interviewed pedophiles and actually learned a lot. From what I saw, these (mostly men) showed sincere affection towards their (for sake of this interview) victims. To them, their feelings are valid. A child, however, is underdeveloped and not mentally fit to have relations with their elders. This is why these relationships cannot be allowed. Two members of the same family will genetically create child who is very very likely to be disabled. That is why these relationships are illegal in most places, but remember, were once very legal and OK. As society changes, opinions do, too.

        Conclusion: Droid, yes, your argument is valid to the very basics only. Realistically and technically speaking though, a homosexual relationship is consensual between two mature adults. A pedophile based one is not.

        Oh, shit. I just contradicted myself. Well, kind of. I guess it depends on what perspective you take. I stated two.

    2. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +1

  11. bbnix profile image61
    bbnixposted 4 years ago

    I cannot understand why we can't let people live their own lives as they see fit. What is so compelling about interfering with anyone's personal decisions and who or what gender they love and/or choose to live their lives with.

    Come on people, how about we focus on violence, abuse, real tragedies each and every day. Does everybody know that an abused and traumatized woman has to wait up to two years to get real viable help in Canada?

    Does everybody know that a poor person in the states is relegated to simply die for lack of much needed care? Does

    Anyone know that if a woman has a child tragically die before the birth, that her only alternative is to go to an abortion clinic and too often be derided while simply going in the door by some insensitive group of people who know nothing of her reason for being there? What about the incalculable starving children, and people in the world....

    How about a cause that makes sense?

    1. 0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      +11111111111

  12. 0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago

    I live in Canada, same sex marriage is not only legal but accepted.  It is of no topic to discuss and no hate or protests source their weddings.

    Proof that it works and people can live as they choose while we all mind our own business

    1. bbnix profile image61
      bbnixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Damned if I don't end up being Canadian, eh...now if only I can import my So Cal beaches..cause I'll sure as hell bringing my So Cal laid back attitude...

  13. Woman Of Courage profile image60
    Woman Of Courageposted 4 years ago

    Being a homosexual and a gay marriage is not a normal aspect of life. If my best friend turned gay, I will still love them, but I will not support their decision.

    1. Paul Wingert profile image79
      Paul Wingertposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Who said homosexuality is a choice?

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        At one time, my whole family was against me choosing to be an artist, now they think that is the best  thing about me.  Imagine when a homosexual makes an honest commitment and being gay and happy for the rest of their  lives, let alone most being born that way

        I know being Religious would make me unhappy for the rest of my life, it would put a huge downer on live and let live attitude or to unlimited thinking and getting along with a friendlier world

    2. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
      SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah. Fact in hand, homosexuality is NOT a choice. And until you can say you "tried" being gay, you will never understand that. If you are religious, I will acknowledge (though respectfully disagree with) your CHOICE to follow your faith. I have a mother who loves me dearly, but cannot accept that her only daughter is gay. It hurts our relationship and has damaged it beyond repair. Its very hard to love someone and not support them.

    3. 0
      BethDWposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      You no more choose to be gay than you 'choose' to have brown eyes, or be 6 feet tall, or female, or whatever. I have two evangelical Christian parents, and my entire family/friend base is EXTREMELY religious. I lost much of my support system when I came out, and when I was a teenager, had I had the choice, I would have 'chosen' to be straight in a second. But I am who I am. The perpetuation of the idea that people can 'choose' who they are attracted to is extremely damaging and dangerous, and is part of the reason there are so many gay youth struggling with depression and other forms of mental illness.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Only my brother is left in our original Family and he is a pastor. Ever since I challenged him about some negative quotes from the Bible, he most often ignore me for years now, and it hurts sometimes, if I were gay it would be worst,
        Growing up we were good friends and talked freely all the time. Today I miss him because of his processed obsession

  14. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    What exactly is 'abnormal'?  Most of the religious people in the world, by numbers alone, are not Christian.  Does that make me abnormal?
    There are more men in the world then women.. does that make women 'abnormal'?
    I don't find any virtue in simply being 'normal'..or in being in the majority.

    Is being gay a choice and something that is not 'natural'.  I dont think being gay is a choice, but even if it was, if a person willingly and freely made such a choice, it can be said that it is in their 'nature' at that point in their life to so choose, ie it was 'natural' for them to do so.

    Is being gay immoral or against my religion?  Well, if it is, that of course is irrelevant to how others choose to live their lives.  Furthermore, many heterosexual people act and behave in ways that are far more offensive to my religious perspective.  Hell, go to any straight nightclub on a given Saturday night and you will find debauchery and outward displays of sexuality on par with anything else you can find.

    Even if I was morally repulsed by homosexuality, refuse to cast the first stone..especially when so many other stone-worthy candidates can be found from within my own heterosexual commuinity

    1. prettydarkhorse profile image61
      prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      knowledgeable and sensitive - au courant!! The Greek is the One!

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        did you just call me a coconut?

        1. Dave Mathews profile image60
          Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          if the shoe fit?

          1. 0
            kimberlyslyricsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            which shoe? lol

        2. prettydarkhorse profile image61
          prettydarkhorseposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          it is a wonder tree Greek One!

    2. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I always kinda thought you're comfortable being lukewarm.
      Now I know.

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Madam, I live in Canada...

        I am never any type of warm





        .. and I have never even met Luke, so I don't even know if he is cute

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Luke?
          ...
          Who cares what he looked like?
          He wrote God-inspired words.  I bet you know where to find 'em.

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I sure do.  In fact, some parts of Luke seem relevant regarding this discussion..

            6:37 Don't judge,And you won't be judged. Don't condemn, And you won't be condemned.


            6:39 He spoke a parable to them. "Can the blind guide the blind? Won't they both fall into a pit?
            6:40 disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
            6:41 Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?
            6:42 Or how can you tell your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye

            1. 0
              Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              You've skipped the large portion and picked just a few.
              But at least you're on the road to picking a side!  That's commendable, really.  At least there's a fire kindled perhaps.  Now isn't that much better than straddling the fence?!  Not as happy-inspiring, but catalytic and challenging, making the choices much clearer.

              1. Greek One profile image80
                Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Picking a side?   What are the choices?

                If it is a question of whether or not it is right to call people 'abnormal' based on their sexual orientation, then decency and my Christian faith mandate that I pick the side that says 'no'

                Is it whether homosexuals should be allowed to get married in a civil ceremony and receive the same rights under law as heterosexuals, then my belief in freedom and equality make me side with those who believe in liberty.

                Is it a question of what God will do to homosexuals and their right to marry.  I defer to God, as I am not privy to His judgement.

                1. 0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Those aren't the choices at all.  Those are based on secularism.
                  My intention wasn't to make you mad nor to offend you, but neither was it to tickle your ears. It was to prick your conscience, to challenge you to consider the choices given to you in the Bible, since you've espoused to believe in it ever since before I met you.  Who else has had the nerve or the call to challenge you about the fire in your belly (or the lack thereof)?
                  Alas, by your response I deduce you may be a bit "blinded" for a while, like Saul was.  But go to Revelation 3: 13--through-22.  And maybe you'll ultimately see how the apathetic Saul become Paul a disciple of Christ's with a fervor for the gift of rightly dividing the Word of God.

                  1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Brenda, all the time you fall back on your interpretations of texts from the bible, you will be guilty of fuelling the fire which burns and beats and kills homosexual people!

                    Even as we read this, young people are being but to death in Iraq, for suspicions that they are gay! Young teenagers!  People interpret their "holy" book with the same sort of judgemental self-righteousness and fear of a god's punishment. Your judgements are as evil as they come.  This goes for all those like you.  You seem to be so heavenly-minded (i.e. scripture-minded), that you risk the possibility of being no earthly good.

                    Now turn what I write here around and again use your useless texts to justify your opinions!

                  2. Greek One profile image80
                    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh dear Brenda, you know I love you and that you could never offend me or make me mad...

                    but why do you consider lack of evangelical zeal on a forum on the world wide web as evidence of lack of conviction and faith?

                    Indeed, very few things on here are worth getting up in arms about.  It doesn't matter to me, for example if others doubt the divinity or existence of Jesus.  This isn't Tarsus 2000 years ago... information is readily available for those who want to seek it (for those of us who live in a free country).

                    What is concerning, however, is when people (present company excluded, of course) who claim to be Christians espouse positions that are far removed from the compassionate teachings of Christ, but use Jesus' life as validation for their bigotry.

              2. maddartist profile image88
                maddartistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                "You've skipped the large portion and picked just a few"

                Again, the pot calling the kettle black.

            2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
              Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              "You've skipped the large portion and picked just a few."

              Indeed, you forgot some of the most important things Luke said, like,

              "But I was going in to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!"

              and

              "I've got your artoo unit; I'm here with Ben Kenobi!"

              and

              "Ben.....Ben....."

              and

              "The Force is strong in my family. My father has it; I have it; my sister has it."

        2. jonnycomelately profile image87
          jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lol  Bingo !

  15. SandyMcCollum profile image85
    SandyMcCollumposted 4 years ago

    Jesus made a point to love and gather with sinners. He loved unconditionally, no matter what has been done. Its us puny Humans who can't handle it - or at least some of them. Sometimes there are outside reasons that guided some to realize they were gay, but they don't "turn gay". They always were gay, they  just came out of the closet.

    I know two men who are married and they adopted two boys. These guys are great parents and worry about all the same things hetero ppl worry about. They mother and father their children, too, and it doesn't mean the kids will be gay because they were raised with gay parents. Being gay is something one cannot control.

    There's a guy who's all tattoo'd, too. I think it's really ugly, but if he has kids it doesn't mean the kids will have the tattoos when they grow up. They may like or dislike them as their own personal choice. Children of gays are much the same, but they grow up with more open minds.

    Who IS abnormal? We all are, in one perspective or another. The ones who can't stand these groups of individuals and couples and actually spend time and money protesting against them, or the ones who dispute any semblance of family between two same sex ppl that want to be married? With the gay population growing in leaps and bounds, their numbers will skyrocket - as it already has.

    Normal is in the eyes of the beholder. We all have different norms, God made us that way. No two are alike, except for identical twins, and even they may have different sexual preferences.

    1. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sandy, thank you for bring a bit of sanity to this Hub. smile

  16. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    Not that you're afraid or ashamed that I know of;  it's just that that's the way I've always known Christians to be--vocal and consistently fervent).

    --->yeah, but I'm a Canadian... and we are neither vocal or fervent

    Secondly, there are real people behind online avatars.  This is a real world, even if some people aren't who or what they say they are.  So I never dismiss it as unimportant.

    ---> I think this is about as far away as 'real' as one can get without the help of large amounts of Whiskey


    Which actually brings me to the total reason.  I understand this isn't Tarsus 2000 years ago, and that people have more access to everything.  But people themselves haven't changed, and  the Great Commission still stands just as importantly as it did when Jesus gave the command back then.

    ----> Are you familiar with the expression "I can't hear what you are saying because you are speaking to loudly"?

    Well, anyway, I would surely have a hard time staying mad at you too if I ever did get mad at you.  Love you too.  Platonically, with the Love of Jesus, I add (just so nobody can make anything bad outta that.)

    ----> You do realize that the word platonically stems from the name of the ancient Greek philosopher, Plato, right?  Based on this forum topic, and the practices of males during Platos time in Athens, I find your use of the word very ironic smile

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      hmm..
      I don't care where it originated from.  The third definition in my Dictionary says this--

      "designating or of a relationship, or love, between a man and a woman that is purely spiritual or intellectual and without sexual activity"

      Sounds good to me.  And notably nothing there about homosexual activity, or even love, between two same-sex people!  It says between a man and a woman, and specifically excludes sexual activity.
      So there I've debunked your insinuation, Mr. Greek One. lol

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Google 'sexual practices of ancient Greek men" (with the safe search on)

        smile

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          No way.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image87
            jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Greek One wrote:

                Google 'sexual practices of ancient Greek men" (with the safe search on)

                smile

                And lovely Brenda said:   No way!!!!


            Oh, go on, Brenda... Have some fun.... at least just looking at the history.  You might even get some real knowledge for a change.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Oh come on guys, that's just mean.  It's like chasing someone with arachnophobia around with a giant spider.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Ok Melissa, I have taken out the Spider.

              2. livelonger profile image89
                livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You don't think she's really frightened/horrified by homosexuality, do you? Homophobia is a stratagem, not a deep-seated fear or hatred, for most right-wingers who aren't secretly gay themselves. In many cases, it's a form of accepted bigotry now that racism is no longer approved, more of a release valve for people who just need to hate something to feel like they're alive.

                1. jonnycomelately profile image87
                  jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you Livelonger.... that's a point of view I had not considered.  Brought me back down to earth, too.  smile

                2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Weird huh?

                  In my personal opinion... and no disrespect intended... what my Spidy senses get from Brenda is a very insecure woman who uses her bible as a shield to wield off the things in life that terrify her.  Since it is her only line of defense, she believes in it without fail or deviance in interpretation.  She also relies on her church brethren as her entire support system.  Anything that makes her doubt her surety in any way shape of form threatens her safety to the core.  Anything that goes against what the others in the church say does the same. 

                  She puts up what appears to be a strong offense, but in reality it is a defense... and I get a sense of desperation at times when something makes her doubt (Which is generally when she withdraws from the debate- usually with some excuse such as housework or such)

                  So yes, I actually do think that she is scared of homosexuality... not so much the act itself but a fear that she might actually grow to empathize with gays... which would produce a HUGE inner conflict.  And since-underneath her fluster- I actually think she is a naturally caring person who wishes for acceptance herself, it WOULD be a huge shaking of her world.

                  I actually feel for her at times, because my relationship with Jesus is incredibly freeing for me.  My church is extremely supportive, often ESPECIALLY with those who have different opinions.  It makes me sad when a church and faith becomes a prison.

                  Just my two cents...  I could be wrong.

                  1. livelonger profile image89
                    livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I could be wrong too, and naturally I respect your viewpoint, which might very well be right. But my instincts say different.

                    I'm familiar with the type of person you describe, and I've met people like that. Some are even active on "homosexual" threads on this site (even this one).

                    However, there are other right-wing Christians who really embrace Kierkegaardian religious fervor. They will usually use "combative" terms like fight, struggle, agenda, opponents, etc when talking about religious concepts, as if religion were a team sport or politics. The line between religion and right-wing politics is oddly blurred. These were the same type of people who were on the front lines in the fights to keep schools segregated, interracial marriages banned, women from voting, etc and they used similar language and highly-selective scriptural references then. Different generation, different prejudices worth fighting for.

                    Usually these people only soften (or evade) when you bring up their own moral failings. That's the only time you see nuance and appeals to reason and compassion.

                  2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
                    Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    "I actually do think that she is scared of homosexuality... not so much the act itself but a fear that she might actually grow to empathize with gays... which would produce a HUGE inner conflict."

                    It's not just very religious folks who freak out about the idea of gayness. Funny story: back in college a couple friends of mine told me about this gross and disgusting poem they were assigned in a modern American poetry class. You may be familiar with it: "Please, Master" by Allen Ginsberg. I'd never heard of the poem at the time, and I asked what was so gross about it. These two girls told me that I wouldn't be able to get through the first few lines without being grossed out, and in fact, I probably wouldn't be able to finish it.

                    Well, that wasn't going to stand. Sight unseen, I made them a $5 bet that I could read it out loud for them.

                    We went back to the dorm, and they found the book, and I gave them an interpretive reading. After about line 15, they actually physically fled my presence, and I had to literally chase them through the hall and down the stairs as I finished the poem.

                    I never did get my $5.... sad

      2. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
        SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I just want to make note that not everyone is Christian, nor does everyone believe in God. Also, throwing around the bible constantly is slightly offensive to me- If God created every being on this planet, and no one is a mistake, then I must need an exorcism. Do you think I really wanted to be BORN gay? I can't help what turns me on. I can't help the butterflies I get when I kiss other women and how much lube and boredom went into my past relations with men. The bible cannot be the answer because I was not given a choice.

        I was once with a splendid young man who could give me the world. His parents were absolutely amazing, he took me on exotic vacations, wined me and dined me, treated me like a queen and made me really happy. We got along famously except for one minor detail- I could not be intimate with him. It did NOTHING for me. Nothing. Even kissing him slowly became a chore until I finally had to leave him. Even he knew deep down I was gay before we ever even broke up (towards the end he started drinking and got slightly violent and vocal calling me a dyke and other obscenities).

        I went so far as to seek help for a sexual dysfunction I assumed I had. I tried EVERYTHING to be straight. Alas, here I am today happy with women.  Its not fair to be judged on things we cannot choose.

        1. maddartist profile image88
          maddartistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Well said. It still baffles me that people believe homosexuality is a choice. No matter how hard you try to explain something to some people they just don't want to think rationally. They choose to live in their fantasy world, it's easier for them.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I think they get them confused with bi people. A bi man or woman could choose to date another man or woman. A homosexual person cannot, nor can a completely heterosexual person. I am bisexual, I've just leaned more towards the hetero "side" for a long time, as there aren't many women that I find attractive, and for other reasons. But there have been a few that I've been very much attracted to here and there in my lifetime.

            1. maddartist profile image88
              maddartistposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, that's true. I've known a few bisexual women but no bisexual men, which is interesting lol. But even still you don't choose to be bisexual, it's just who your brain/heart feels attraction towards, you can't help it.

              1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yea, it is just the way we are. My boyfriend's bisexual. So there you go. smile wink

            2. Repairguy47 profile image60
              Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Why do so many homosexual men and women have opposite sex ex's and children if they "cannot" choose to date the opposite sex?

              1. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
                SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                WHO you date is a choice. The sex you are attracted to is not (unless you are bisexual or pansexual). Pressures of society have a major grip on ones mind. I grew up in a house where homosexuality was never discussed thus leading me to date men. We got along, but that was about it. In areas or families where "gay" is not a household term, you don't know better and experiment like anyone 'learning' to date would.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this



                  *Smiles* That's not precisely true.  I'm bi and I still don't get to choose.

              2. janikon profile image89
                janikonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Societal influence plays a huge factor in who you choose to date, if all your friends are dating girls and societal law dictates you are suppose to want to date them too, you do it. It's only in the last few years homosexuality and lesbianism are more widely taught, this may see the number of 'opposite sex exes' decrease over time.

                It's all about figuring yourself out, like any person. Whereas heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex without question, members of the LGBTQ community are often conflicted between what they feel and what they assume they are suppose to feel, often times entering into relationships solely to feel accepted within society or normal within their familial environment.

                As for having children, gay men and women don't lose the desire to reproduce upon discovery of their homosexuality or lesbianism.

                1. Repairguy47 profile image60
                  Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Thats all great. But, I was asking the poster if they don't have a choice then why do they have ex's of the opposite sex. Obviously they have a choice.

                  1. livelonger profile image89
                    livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    So do heterosexuals. They could get sexually involved with people of the same sex. They tend not to. I wonder why?

                  2. A Thousand Words profile image80
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    They do not have the choice of attraction, but they do have the choice of who to date. Those are two very different things.

                    A man likes men.
                    Society condemns the man.
                    Society says "date a woman!"
                    The man dates a woman.
                    The man still likes other men.

              3. A Thousand Words profile image80
                A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You're not really getting it, I don't think.

                If I'm gay, and I know that I'm gay, but I want to be "normal" because my society says something's wrong with me, and I don't want to live a life being ridiculed by hypocrites, then I will go against my own nature and be with who they say I should be with, and even try to convince myself that I'm not really gay, when deep down, I know who I am.

                There's nothing that makes people more unhappy than having to disguise their true nature. What you don't seem to get is that there are MANY men and women out there who are attracted to the same sex, but at the fear of estrangement from their family members who offer them a selfish "love," and ostracism from a society they find dear, they hide their true selves from people who only conditionally care about them, and that's no way that anyone should have to live.

                1. Repairguy47 profile image60
                  Repairguy47posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  What you described is a choice, you apparently are the one not getting it.

                  1. A Thousand Words profile image80
                    A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not so certain. I'll repost my second comment towards you.

                    "A man likes men.
                    Society condemns the man.
                    Society says "date a woman!"
                    The man dates a woman.
                    The man still likes other men."

                    Do you see where the choice is made? He's choosing to date a woman, but he cannot change the fact that he is only attracted to men. Again, this is the difference between choosing who you date, and who you are attracted to. You can ignore your attraction for someone. But, you can't change the fact that they are attractive to you. You ask people to live a life going against how they really are in order to satisfy you and others who do not like their "lifestyle." That is selfish, sorry.

  17. Jeff Berndt profile image91
    Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago

    The problem with using words like "normal" and "abnormal" is that people insist on putting a value judgement on normality and abnormality.

    Normal isn't necessarily good--it's just what most people are like. Abnormal isn't necessarily bad--it's just rare.

    Heck, most people aren't billionaires, therefore, billionaires are abnormal.

    Most people do not reenact the War of 1812, therefore, war of 1812 reenactors are abnormal (even among reenactors, they're in a small minority).

    Most people do not have tattoos, therefore, people with tattoos are abnormal.

    But there's nothing wrong with any of the above-named things. They're not unhealthy; they're just unusual.

    But then again, all of the above things are not inherent to the individual: nobody is born with tattoos, for example. And while it's possible to be born into a wealthy family, it is also possible to lose that wealth and not be a billionaire anymore.

    So gayness would be better compared to, say, blue-eyed-ness, or albinism, or left-handedness. Left-handedness is relatively rare, so being left-handed is clearly abnormal. In fact, back in the day, left-handed people were persecuted, and forced to conform to the right-handed norm. It was even considered sinful to use one's left hand for writing, eating, etc.

    But of course, now we know that left-handedness, like being gay, is not chosen, is not sinful, and in fact, is just the way some people are: It's just unusual to be left-handed. Or gay. It's not bad; it just is.

    But of course, there are always going to be people who feel the need to persecute anyone who is different. In high school, they tease you, or vandalize your locker, or try to extort your lunch money. In adult life, they carry signs that say God hates you, or they try to make it illegal for you to marry, or whatever.

    But not everyone is a bully, thank goodness. Really, bullying is abnormal, too, but in a bad way.

  18. 0
    icountthetimesposted 4 years ago

    Gay people taking a real kicking from society. They're perfectly normal, the people attacking them on the other hand..

    1. Castlepaloma profile image22
      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Since most people are religious, I wonder who is doing most of the kicking
      mmmmm? I wonder what Jesus would say?, if he knew that it is a death penalty to be gay in predominant  Religious countries, being soft on crime and all.

  19. Hollie Thomas profile image59
    Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago

    @Livelonger. I suppose that's the difficulty for us all. How do we differentiate between those who are ill-informed and those who just enjoy their apparent, false superiority, and gain pleasure by undermining others. I suppose you have to know them pretty well to begin with to make that distinction.

    I can see your point, there are some that will never change, irrespective of how hard we try. In this respect it can be a waste of time, they have chosen their path, their life. Better to concentrate on changing things for the better for gay couples. WE just have to live and learn I expect, at least WE are prepared to do that. smile

  20. Gordon Hamilton profile image99
    Gordon Hamiltonposted 4 years ago

    How I precisely found this topic is thanks to Hollie! It's not something I would normally post on and no - I'm not.

    I would like to point out something, however, to everyone that I hope you will consider...

    Give me space, please, and I will try to explain...!

    I am a Scottish Presbyterian. I was brought up in the sense that Popery (Roman Catholicism) and homosexuality were signs of the devil.

    I have in adult life made many good friends who are both RC and homosexual and have no time for this bigotry. I do, however, continue to worship the word of the good book that forbids such activity.

    What should I do? Essentially, it's a private conscience issue, one to carefully ponder and a very private concern.

    Please, people, don't be so judgemental of others - are you really so perfect???

    1. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I think if everyone thought it was a private conscience issue, there wouldn't be much of an issue whatsoever.

      Unfortunately, there are some people who are very persistently loud about the "sin of homosexuality" while being quiet as a mouse about all the other sins they might be guilty of themselves.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Trillions of sins to sort out for the devil and decision on who to hurt most, perhaps he is so over loaded with absurd laws from ancient times.

        Must be hell down there

      2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
        Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        See, the worry about the whole "private conscience" thing is that when the 'sin' is something most of us don't want to do anyway, it's easy to demonize those who want to do it. But when the 'sin' is something that most people really enjoy (like bacon, or pizza [mixing beef and dairy], or wearing stylish clothing [blended fabrics] or seafood [shellfish]) it's harder to demonize those who do it.

        It's much safer to persecute a tiny, powerless minority than it is to persecute a large, powerful majority.

        Christian bullies target gays and not divorcees for the exact same reason that animal rights activists throw paint on ladies in fur coats but not on bikers in leather jackets: cowardice.

        1. livelonger profile image89
          livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Agreed completely, but I'm not opposed to someone who privately thinks homosexuality is the worst sin, or any other irrational and bigoted thought. I have no interest in getting in someone's head.

          I only have a problem with it when they badger me or other gay people when they can't manage to be sinless themselves, or when they vote to restrict others' civil rights that they enjoy themselves. So, I have a problem with certain behaviors/actions, not with beliefs.

          1. Greek One profile image80
            Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            how long ago did you make the decision to be gay, livelonger?

            ..and was it a form of rebellion on your part?


            smile

            1. livelonger profile image89
              livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I can't remember the date, exactly, but, yes, of course it was a deliberate choice to rebel against God's Word™.

              When did you choose to be Greek? I'm sure you're aware of that nationality's unGodly® associations...

              1. Greek One profile image80
                Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I made the decision to be Greek the same day the European community decided to lend billions of dollars to Greece.

                I didn't realize that the money would be going directly to the government, however.  sad

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Ahh, Europe. The Den of Iniquity®. The Stronghold of Socialism™.

        2. Castlepaloma profile image22
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Always try to understand this anti gay relationship movement and keep failing at it and most likely never will succeed being so unkind to any other group. As  if  gays would changed their lifestyle to be so narrow and loop-sided as many  Religious people think, it would only make both sides   more unhappy.

          It must be their form of miserableness they will carry for the rest of their lives and into the afterlife. Don't worry Christians, God will love you anyways if many other groups don't , try wearing the gay person  shoes rather than those saddles you rarely wear, now.

    2. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Gordon Hamilton, your post does not seem to have brought any reasonable answer to your questions yet.  So, respectfully, let's give it a thought.

      Even if you can't come to a specific decision about being gay, per see, or accepting homosexuality if you are not yourself gay, there are, I feel, some common denominator requirements for being a reasonable, companionable person in society, regardless of the sexual orientation/attraction, which we all aught to be concentrating on.  If there is discord and we can't agree on the specific differences, then let's look at the attributes which we can agree upon and promote those.

      All the 10 Commandments deserve our attention.  The basic tenets of fairness, kindness, courtesy, unselfish pursuits, going the extra mile, turning the other cheek....etc., etc., - we enhance our community and our neighbours if we give plenty of time to these principles.  They are important regardless of whether we are hetero- or homosexual. 

      A same-gender couple who are nuturing a young person (child) into a life worth living have the same needs and duties focused on the child as a heterosexual couple.  Also, not having brought up kids I am on the outside looking in. Yet I can see and admire parents who are having a very difficult time of it.  In many cases they deserve a medal!

      All the above is MUCH more demanding of our time and attention than the confusing and doubtful teachings/preachings which some put forward from the bible. 

      Does this help you in your dilemma at all?  I hope it's at least food for thought.

    3. Hollie Thomas profile image59
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I actually admire you for this post, Gordon. It's honest. You openly admit what you were brought up to believe and then talk about your exasperation with bigotry. if only...if only other people of religion could be this honest about how they feel conflicted,then we could all have a sensible and civil debate.

      I'm not religious, just like you are not gay, but just like you I'll attempt to walk in another man's shoes and ask, did the good book preach this discrimination against gay men and women, or was it people...of religion?

      I understand, even though I have not experienced this inner conflict myself, that it must be confusing and leave you with lots of questions yet unanswered. I think Melissa nails it when she says that you can be religious, but still think for yourself and determine what each teaching means, especially when it talks of love and compassion for our fellow human beings. I don't believe that any religious book anywhere promotes us mere mortals to elevate ourselves to the status of judgement day doormen. That is so short sighted, egotistic and probably not was initially intended. Still, the executioners will have their own community, where they can all just judge each other (no compassionate person would ever want to be there!)

      What should you do? Follow your conscience is my advice,but its up to you. smile

    4. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
      SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I also really admire your post! How big of you to be so honest and respectful. I agree with both posts ahead of mine. I also feel, should you want to, follow what YOU feel is right. If you want to stick to your teachings and you truly feel you are straight, then don't "practice" homosexuality personally. If you have conflict about your sexuality, I think for sake of your sanity, you should explore that. If you find that neither of these options are correct, maybe you can find a group/church of your denomination that has accepted homosexuality.

      I too, am not religious, but know and associate with people (we will use my Christian friends for this) who range all over. I have a friend who is a complete bible thumping devout Christian (I say this lovingly smile No disrespect!) who has sat down with me for HOURS as we discuss and dissect each others opposing view points. Although she does not agree with homosexuality, she respects my life and even told me she would come to my wedding one day. This was a HUGE deal to me because it showed her compassion for humanity as a whole. She will not "practice" homosexuality but is a big enough person to respect someone who does. I also have Christian friends who attend churches that are accepting of everyone.

      Help any?

  21. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    I actually have a bone to pick (no pun intended) with you gay people....

    Why is it that only once in my 41 years have I been hit on by another man?

    I used to think it was because I reek too much of heterosexuality for a gay man to approach me.. but as it has happened once, that kind of hurts my theory.

    More importantly, the guy who hit on me was waaaaaay beneath my standards, so I was a little offended by that, and hold a grudge against all you people as a result.

    I am not sure that being gay will keep you out of Heaven, but hurting my feelings with lack of attention sure isnt the proper thing to do!

    It's not that i am interested in men, mind you... but a fellow likes to think that he has options.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image22
      Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Fear of being being hit on, at my age I'll take any attention I can get, even if I'm not gay.

      One time a gay homeless man told me I was Hot, Then I ask Him, was it the way I was walking or standing that made you think that.?
      Then walked off with a smile

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        see!  All the gay homeless men here are soooooo stuck up!

        1. Castlepaloma profile image22
          Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe if I was gay and had lots of booze to give him, we could have went somewhere.

    2. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Take it as a compliment. wink The straight men that I know that complain that "so many" gay men are always hitting on them are uniformly ugly (whether they're delusional or the gay men they're talking about have bad taste, I'm not sure).

      Attractive straight men never seem to complain that gay men hit on them or don't; maybe because it's because they're used to getting it from women.

      1. Greek One profile image80
        Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        ....still... i think i better hit the gym

    3. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      LMAO!  I'm tied with you. One night one of my gay guy friends dressed me in "drag" to go to the bar.  I was a woman dressed as a guy dressed as a woman...


      I pause for a moment of appreciation to all the fabulous queens out there:   

      1. Duct tape is a bitch to pull off.
      2. You can't see through 2 inch fake eyelashes
      3. Glitter NEVER completely comes off
      4. 6 inch spiked heels double as torture devices
      5. Those wigs are fuggin heavy

      With that said I had to have the most unusual conversation I've ever had in my life... I had to explain to the very attractive gay man that he was of the ONLY sexual orientation that I didn't consider for a possible romance.  He, in turn, assured me that I was the only woman he had ever hit on in his life.

      1. jonnycomelately profile image87
        jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        DArling!!!!  All very sinful, I am sure, but the Lord won't mind!  He's gay too! Or at least ambiguous.  Or Bi. .....

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nah, I think he's pretty much asexual.  Except for that one tryst with that virgin he doesn't really get around much.

        2. Hollie Thomas profile image59
          Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Nah, if he exists (are we talking about G or J? If we're talkning about J, and they exist, it's a woman.) If we're talking about G...then he's most definitely a Tea Party member.

    4. SeamlessDestiny03 profile image60
      SeamlessDestiny03posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If it makes you feel any better, I never get hit on by women because they all think I am straight. smile

  22. gamergirl profile image60
    gamergirlposted 4 years ago

    Busts are a novelty for gay men, Greek One.  That's all.

    1. Greek One profile image80
      Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      sadly, during my teenage years.. they were all but a myth to me

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Fairy tales have changed,  (Fairy) Gay Parade in Toronto is larger than the world largest Santa's Christmas Parade in Toronto also.

      2. gamergirl profile image60
        gamergirlposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I'M SO SAD, YOU TOTALLY SKIPPED MY PUN.

        Sad, I tell you.  Positively miserable.

        1. Greek One profile image80
          Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          oh, I got it..

          I just wanted to stay with a perverted theme

          tongue

  23. Shanna11 profile image93
    Shanna11posted 4 years ago

    My only problem with gay guys is that they're all the attractive ones. I swear, every drop-dead gorgeous guy I've met was gay and after a while I'm beginning to become desperate. Are there no attractive straight men?! Why did the gay ones get all the looks? It's not fair. sad

    1. Greek One profile image80
      Greek Oneposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      THAT is the reason that I always loved gay men....

      could you imagine the increased competition for women if gays became straight?!?!?


      As for lesbians.. well.. they are easy to love

    2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Are there no attractive straight men?!"
      Yes, but we're all married. tongue

      1. Druid Dude profile image61
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        To a hetero, anything else is abnormal. To a homosexual, being hetero is abnormal. Everybody is abnormal to somebody else.

        1. livelonger profile image89
          livelongerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Most of us manage to happily coexist with people who are different from us, though. tongue

          1. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That is why I don't like judgemental, predjudicial people. Odd that so many are christian, after all, to fulfill the wishes nof God, pointing the finger has got to stop. And, christians aren't the only ones.

    3. jonnycomelately profile image87
      jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Haha, Shanna.  I can fully understand you, but those lovely gay guys are the ones I fancy too...lol

      I can feel for you and your needs, honestly.  Yet may I ask you a question?  Would you like to tell us what you would "want" in a man who was your "desire?"

      I often see "straight" couples, where either or both of them, in my eyes, are downright ugly.  Yet they have a wonderful warm and loving relationship.  Their love has a lot more to do with the inner stuff than the outer stuff.  This applies equally to gay couples too.  I wonder what on earth each sees in the other but, again, "love runs deeper."

      1. Shanna11 profile image93
        Shanna11posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You pose a good point. I'm really not a shallow person- I swear. I was having a jokey-vain moment. Really for me, I just want a guy who's not a jerk, wants a family and treats me as well as I deserve.

  24. Greek One profile image80
    Greek Oneposted 4 years ago

    i think it has a lot to do with penis size

    1. srwnson profile image59
      srwnsonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Truckers have bigger rigs!

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        GW penis was the size of a missile,

  25. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 4 years ago

    Half the people who live in our home are gay. I find it unremarkable. There is certainly nothing abnormal about it. People are who they are.

    It is much easier that gays are not 'gays' in this country (in the sense of either persecuted, politicised or striking annoying postures). They are just people who prefer their own gender for intimate company.

    Men treat women pretty badly on the whole in this part of the world and it is a practical alternative to being lonely and abandoned for older women. My daughter in law has arrived at the solution in her teens.

    My wife still hopes that one day, her one and only will meet the 'right man'. I try not to say too much.

  26. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 4 years ago

    I reckon you and Brenda are getting around to working something out. It does seem a very slow process, though. lol

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There was nothing "worked out".  And no offer to work anything out.  And if there had been, I'm sure it would not have been one I couldn't refuse.  lol

      I've just been turning the other cheek in that situation.
      I reckon when I run out of cheeks to turn, we'll see what the accusers do then.  I'm purty sure I know;  'cause they've never changed yet (as evidenced in a post here and in other threads).

      1. A Thousand Words profile image80
        A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        LoL, the accusers? Or the people who are pointing out what you do, and somehow you're so special that when people call you on your bull, they are "accusers?" It never fails.

        No, they are people, either angry that their rights are being denied, or sympathetic for others whose rights are being denied because of people, like you, who live in a box and try to place everyone else in the world in the same box. You think you know everything about everything, that your God has given you and all the other "believers" special knowledge about what's "good" and "right" in this world. But, what you do, especially in forums like this, is far from "good" for anyone but your "God" and yourselves.

        And so people will happily be called perverted and whatever other demeaning names you would like to call them. Because they love themselves. And have every right to.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Are you guys tag-teaming or something? LOL.

          Let's see.....I think I can re-use my left cheek....

          So bye bye.

          1. A Thousand Words profile image80
            A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You take personal offense, but you cannot do any self-reflection because of your arrogance. It has nothing to do with how many times you turn your cheek.

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yep.  Unfortunately for her, ATW drew the short straw in this morning's "Persecute Brenda" team meeting.  On the upside, the position comes with all the free Irish coffee you can drink.

            In the meantime, It frees me, LL and the others up to hunt virgins to sacrifice in this weekends "All Hail Satan" community mixer.  We have a bread maker and a black vinyl body suit for door prizes this week.  I'm real excited about that.

            1. A Thousand Words profile image80
              A Thousand Wordsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              LOL. I can't... I can't breathe...

  27. jonnycomelately profile image87
    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago

    Brenda, I have been off-line for so many days now, and I see you are still persisting in your attitude of seeing being gay as a "perversion." 

    Haven't you got a life to live, which is so much richer than all this argument, coming from ignorance and prejudice? 

    This day, in this life which you have now, is never going to return to you.  Regardless of what you think you will find after the life has passed, if you waste this day, you are deluding yourself with fancy.

    Leave people like myself who are homosexual in orientation to live OUR lives as we see fit.  Butt out of what is not your business!

  28. jonnycomelately profile image87
    jonnycomelatelyposted 4 years ago

    How many men have got themselves to the age around 30-32, having married, raised kids through 10 or 12 years, then find that things are not feeling right?

    When they look back they realise they were not being honest with themselves, their fiance, their folks and friends, and they were really getting married because it "was the thing to do?" 

    Now the marriage is on the rocks, the kids are scared and unhappy, the guy is looking at problem upon problem.  He bends over backwards to try and keep things going, yet the reality tells him there is something about himself he cannot change.

  29. jirel profile image78
    jirelposted 4 years ago

    I would support them if they turned into a gay or a lesbian.

 
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