SODOM REVIVED: GAY PRIDE PARADE

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, John Marin, 1852
The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, John Marin, 1852

THE DESTRUCTION


Lot, nephew of Abraham separated from him because there was a strife between the herdsmen of Abraham's cattle and Lot's herdsmen. The two of them separated and Lot chose the well watered plain of Jordan and he pitched his tent toward Sodom. The sins of the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked (Genesis 13:12). Sodom was located with its sister cities Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim and Zoar at the southern end of the Dead Sea.

The righteous God wanted to destroy Sodom but before He did it, God appeared to Abraham to inform him of His plans. Abraham pleaded with God not to destroy Sodom if there were fifty righteous men. Eventually he bargained down to ten righteous men but there was not even ten in the city. When Lot pleaded to his sons in law to flee to the mountains, he was disbelieved (Genesis 19:14). Lot fled with his wife and two daughters, but his wife was turned to a pillar of salt for looking back to Sodom. The wrathful God destroyed the city of Sodom and sister city of Gomorrah (Genesis 19:23-28).

THE SINS OF SODOM


Throughout history warning upon warning was given about the destruction of Sodom and the other cities. Deuteronomy 29:23- 27states: "And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboin, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath: ... (v. 26) For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them. ..."


OLD TESTAMENT


Isaiah 1:9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Jeremiah 23:14 ... they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.



Lamentations 4:6 ... the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment.

Amos 4:11As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah ...


NEW TESTAMENT


Romans 9:29 Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been like unto Sodom;

The apostle Luke described in Chapter 17:27-29: "They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (v.28) Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; (v.29) But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh , are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


REVIVAL OF SODOM GAY PRIDE PARADE IN TORONTO


June 27-29, 2008 The federal NDP Leader Jack Layton and his wife, NDP Olivia Chow, (New Democratic Party), many members of the Liberal party, especially Energy and Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman, and Toronto Mayor David Miller are among the proud supporters of Pride Parade. "The glaring absence would be the federal Conservative party," says Fatima Amarshi, Pride Toronto's executive director.


CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

Soldiers march in Toronto Gay Pride parade 29 Jun 2008 ... For the first time, members of Canada's Armed Forces represented the military in Toronto's annual Gay Pride Parade, held Sunday.

www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/06/29/gay-pride.html?ref=rss

CANADIAN TELEVISION

Thousands of spectators celebrate Pride in T.O.

Updated Sun. Jun. 29 2008 7:14 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff

Downtown Toronto was bursting with Pride Sunday as a million spectators gathered to watch a colourful celebration of gay rights and lifestyle.

The annual Gay Pride Parade kicked off at 2 p.m. on Bloor Street East and then headed south on Yonge Street before heading back to heart of the Gay Village on Church Street.

The Pride Parade has been taking place for nearly three decades but this year was the first time members of the Canadian Armed Forces took part in the procession.


PRIDE FLAG


Pride Flag History:

The Rainbow (or Gay Pride) Flag was created by artist and vexillographer Gilbert Baker, a friend of the late Harvey Milk, in 1978. The flag debuted at the San Francisco Gay and Lesbian Freedom Day Parade. It has since been used around the world as a symbol of LGBT.


Colors of the Rainbow Flag:

The original flag had eight stripes from top to bottom: pink (sexuality), red (life), orange (healing), yellow (sunlight), green (nature), turquoise (magic), indigo/blue (serenity), and violet (spirit). Within a year, the flag had shed two of its stripes-pink and violet. According to Gilbert, they "ran out of pink dye." The violet stripe was later taken out to create an even number of stripes on the flag.

Since, many variations of the flag have been created. For instance, a black stripe is added to some symbolizing those lost to AIDS. There are also variations to represent bisexual people, bears and others.


HELP FOR THE HOMOSEXUALS


CRIES FOR HELP


I've been praying about this matter for almost a decade now, but practically nothing has changed. I feel so helpless, so depressed. I've been a loner all my life with no friends at all. I just can't seem to ever make friends. I tried and tried again, but nothing ever works.

_____________

I need Jesus to help me desperately. I am a firm believer in Christ. I& #39;m 15 years old and am attracted to other guys. I've had crushes on girls too and I even have a girl in mind that I think would be great to marry. But I'm so confused. I hate these feelings; I want Jesus! I don't want this, I need his help. I don't want to have to deal with this, I know it's for a reason (I'm going to be a Youth Minister...go figure.) I need advice and prayer. Please help.

_____________

I am 35. I want to go to my pastor, but I am afraid what he might think. The deal is I have been having homosexual thoughts. I don't know how to quit feeling this way. Can you help me?

I'm seeking guidance and assistance. I am 19 years old and I'm gay. But please don't stop reading. I have had these feelings for as long as I can remember. I was raised in a Christian household so I am familiar with the Bible. I know it says in many places that homosexuality is a sin but are the feelings sinful, or the acts? I just feel so lost. Please just pray for me. Please!

_______________

Believe me, I did not ask to be attracted to the same-sex. I am tormented constantly; I live my life in solitude because of it. Is there any help for me? Where can I go for help? Who can I confide in? Being that I have never given in to these urges, do I have a place in heaven? Or do my homosexual desires damn me? Should I just give up? What future is there? I appreciate your help.

______________


This is a desperate cry for help. I'm 16. I don't have money to buy books. I can't seek help through people I know because I will definitely be shunned or shot. Those "happy coming out with your homosexuality stories" would definitely not apply to me. This is my situation. Sometimes I just want to be held. I think there's something missing that I'm searching for - the comfort - protection of a man.


About Cross Ministry

Cross Ministry, Inc. is a nondenominational Christian organization giving visibility to the reality of change for the homosexual through Jesus Christ. Cross seeks to glorify God through the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Bridegroom of the Church, in the unparalleled power of the Holy Spirit.


http://www.crossministry.com/ 

Over the years, Tim Wilkins has spoken to thousands of people in hundreds of different venues across the country and around the world--from Saddleback Community Church where Rick Warren is pastor, to Amsterdam where Tim spoke for the Billy Graham Association-from the Exodus World Conference in England to historic First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas. 
His redemptive, compassionate and yet firm response to this heated issue has caught the attention of Chuck Colson's Prison Fellowship, BBN, and National Public Radio (NPR). It is no wonder that Gary Chapman, best-selling author of The Five Love Languages not only endorses Tim's ministry, but serves as an Advisory Board member. 
Such wide exposure has generated a multitude of testimonies from individuals and churches which have been impacted by Cross Ministry. A few of those testimonies follow. 


"I could not discuss my son¹s homosexuality until I met you. Nor could I have asked others to pray for him until I stopped being ashamed. Your ministry made his deliverance possible!" -- A father from Louisiana

"We invited our (lesbian) daughter to hear you speak. She sat next to us with her arms begrudgingly folded, frown on her face, and jaw clenched. As you spoke of Christ¹s power in your life, she listened intently. At the close, our weeping daughter was the first to bolt out of the pew and up front. God bless you!" -- A mother from North Carolina


CHANGE IS POSSIBLE


It is possible that some homosexuals may change their orientation or way of life. Even if the number is still quite small, the reward is great. There is no one perfect person in the world, but if he changes, God would accept him with open arms, "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance" (Luke 15:7). "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth" (v.10).The option is open to those who seek. Praise the Lord.


COME ALL YOU WHO ARE DISTRESSED AND WISHED TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE. COME TO JESUS!

Jesus Christ Saved Me from 27 Years of Homosexuality

Sodom Revived: Gay Pride Parade

Do you realize that gays can change their orientation?

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Do you know Cross Ministry, Inc., a nondenominational Christian organization can give advice to change for homosexual through Jesus Christ?

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Do you know that the director of Cross Ministry was a former homosexual before?

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Comments 66 comments

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Wow, this is a great hub! God wants to deliver everyone from oppression! I call it conviction by the Holy Spirit for those who are struggling and desire to change. Only God can transform us from the old man into the new man, and it is a process. We are "born again" and must grow, as a newborn baby must grow.

For those who ask if being tempted is a sin, the answer is NO. Satan tempts us, and if we do not act upon that temptation, we are not guilty. We bring that temptation into subjection to Christ in us, amen!

I'm glad you've addressed this subject, as I have as well. Not too many will take it on, and do it with love and truth. God bless you!


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Thank you for the blessing. Not many people would respond to the article. There are some crying out for help and if they do, God certainly would hark their cries for He said He would not let anyone die if they call for help.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

This is a subject where not only homosexuals might be confused or simply have decided the grace of God covers all who believe, but the Christian community as well. As I wrote in my hub, "Homosexuality & Christianity", I address this from a compassionate and Biblical perspective a bit differently. In fact, I don't even mention the Old Testament or Sodom & Gomorrah...I had to know where God stands on the issue, and that helped me tremendously, and moved me to write on the subject so many avoid or simply don't take a stand on. God's Word truly sets us free when we absolutely know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what the New Covenant teaching is on this subject. God bless you and all who read.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: This is a subject where not only homosexuals might be confused or simply have decided the grace of God covers all who believe, but the Christian community as well.

ANSWER: GRACE - The free mercy of God, or the enjoyment of his favour, Rom 11:6; 2 Tim 1:9. [2] A Christian virtue, 2 Cor 6:7. Crudence Concordance.

I have listed all the verses pertaining to the wrath of God upon all those who practise sodomy. I am quoting from the Bible and not my own thoughts.

To believe the words of God with the lips, but not following or acting out the commands of the Lord are completely useless.

It says Christian virtue which means righteousness. Are homosexuals righteous in the eyes of the Lord?

I do not think I can add any more to the hub for I had presented the words of God, the warnings and the choice. The ball lies in their court. It is up to the people themselves to decide what is appropriate action or behaviour.

I am glad you made contribution by your comments which are always welcome. God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Amen. As I shared with one of my commenters on my hub, I've read how the gay community tends to respond to Sodom and Gomorrah, in that they say homosexuality is not specifically mentioned as the reason why God destroyed them. As you and I know, angels in the Bible always appeared in male form. For the MEN of Sodom to want to have sex with the male angels, even though Lot offered the men of the City his daughters, shows the corruption rampant in that City. I'm even shocked that Lot would offer his daughters, but that's another subject!

Obviously, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah operated within their governing laws of the land, liberal to the hilt ~ yet, God's wrath poured out in one day and destroyed them completely. Likewise, if our Country continues to liberate such activity and it becomes rampant, I fear God will do the same ~ for Sodom and Gomorrah were "an example", per the Word of God!

Of all the sins listed in the Bible, homosexuality is the only one that appears to be a "judgment" rather than just a "sin", as "God turned them over (to Satan)" to such behavior, meaning they do not belong to God any longer (if they ever did). This is based on Romans 1:24-28. I pray they will repent and receive His forgiveness and restoration into His glorious grace, evident by the fruit of the Spirit and Christ-like character that only He can produce in us.

Again, I nor any other Christian JUDGES them, but we are called to warn them of God's judgment, because we love them!


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: I've read how the gay community tends to respond to Sodom and Gomorrah, in that they say homosexuality is not specifically mentioned as the reason why God destroyed them.

ANSWER: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh are set forth for an example, suffer the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7).

Fornication is having sex before marriage. The life style of homosexuals is having profilic sex with several same sex.

Strange flesh is having sex with those whom God did not ordain. In the beginning of creation, God created Adam and Eve for reprocreation. Homosexuals cannot reprocreate.

YOU WROTE: Likewise, if our Country continues to liberate such activity and it becomes rampant, I fear God will do the same ~ for Sodom and Gomorrah were "an example", per the Word of God!

ANSWER: God will not completely destroy any city if there are ten righteous people in the city (Gen 18:23-32).

YOU WROTE: Of all the sins listed in the Bible, homosexuality is the only one that appears to be a "judgment" rather than just a "sin".

ANSWER: All sins will be judged, whether big or small. The timing of the judgment is from the Lord.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

"for this reason, God gave them over" ~ that's a judgment, don't you think?

Romans 1:24 "For this reason, God delivered them to sexual impurity as they followed the lusts of their hearts and dishonored their bodies with one another."

Romans 1:26 "For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural."

God does not "give over" or "deliver" unless it is a judgment. Otherwise, it would be God's will that they practice such things. God does not give man over to all types of sin. God hates sin, so to purposefully "give someone over" to sin appears to be a judgment. This is my take on it.

We differ on the judgment of sin for believers in the Bible. You feel even one sin can rob us of our salvation, if not confessed and repented of ~ even if a person causes an accident and dies before confessing the sin. I disagree. There are all types of sin in the Bible. The only one that is stated to be a judgment of God while on earth is homosexuality..."God gave them over". We don't need to go back and forth. I love you in the love of the Lord, though we don't always see eye to eye. That's true of many Christian doctrines.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: "for this reason, God gave them over" ~ that's a judgment, don't you think?

ANSWER: Definitely it is judgment of God. He passes judgment any time the Lord thinks it is right. The majority of the cases receives judgment after Jesus comes back the second time while some are still alive and others dead.

YOU WROTE: God does not "give over" or "deliver" unless it is a judgment. Otherwise, it would be God's will that they practice such things.

ANSWER: It is never God's will that man practises evil. Man is given freedom to act. Whether he follows God or not, that is his own will.

YOU WROTE: God hates sin, so to purposefully "give someone over" to sin appears to be a judgment. This is my take on it.

ANSWER: To give someone over to sin means that God would not continue to try to change the sinful man, but allow him to continue his sinful way of life.

QUESTION: There are probably millions of homosexuals around the world. Why does God not destroy them?

YOU WROTE: "give someone over" to sin appears to be a judgment. This is my take on it.

ANSWER: God would definitely judge "sin". Normally, God would judge on JUDGMENT DAY when Jesus returns the second time on earth.

Remember the parable of the wheat and tares.

YOU WROTE: We differ on the judgment of sin for believers in the Bible. You feel even one sin can rob us of our salvation, if not confessed and repented of ~ even if a person causes an accident and dies before confessing the sin. I disagree.

ANSWER: I shall answer another time for it is now 1:46 am and I must get some sleep. I am also writing another hub.

Until next time. I will definitely continue with the topic.

.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

To attempt to answer your question, "There are probably millions of homosexuals around the world. Why does God not destroy them?", Satan is presently the "god of this world" and has a time to do as he pleases (lawlessness). The Antichrist will also be "allowed" to operate in this function and persecute the saints, killing many if not most of them. The Day is coming. We are yet living in the "age of grace" (which rains on the just and the unjust ~ yes, the wheat and the tares). Homosexuals have already been "given over", and God's grace is yet giving them the choice to repent, just as the choice will still be there for those left behind after the rapture of the Church. We know that God does not endorse or approve of homosexual sin, to the degree He has already "pre-judged" them by giving them over to a sin unto death...the judgment far greater is yet to come.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

Continuation of previous comments

YOU WROTE: We differ on the judgment of sin for believers in the Bible. You feel even one sin can rob us of our salvation, if not confessed and repented of ~ even if a person causes an accident and dies before confessing the sin. I disagree.

ANSWER: All SIN is unrighteousness.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 6:9)?

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit

incorruption" (1 Cor 15:50).

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like ...which do such thing shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:19-21).

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie" (Rev 21:27).

"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever" (John 8:34-35).

Anger, hatred,and strife are also sins. In the 10 Commandments, lying is also a sin. A White lie is also lying.

There are probably more verses but i shall not continue to list them.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: Homosexuals have already been "given over"

QUESTION: Can you give me the citation for "given over".

I do know why God killed the homosexuals in Sodom and Gomorrah. It is because there were not ten righteous people in the city as Abraham bargained with God over the destruction of the city.

YOU WROTE: We know that God does not endorse or approve of homosexual sin, to the degree He has already "pre-judged" them by giving them over to a sin unto death...the judgment far greater is yet to come.

ANSWER: God hates all types of sin and all who sin are barred from the kingdom of God (Gal 5:19-21; Rev 21:27).

YOU WROTE: We know that God does not endorse or approve of homosexual sin, to the degree He has already "pre-judged" them by giving them over to a sin unto death...the judgment far greater is yet to come.

ANSWER: I am uneasy about the term "pre-judged". When God pronounces a judgment, it is His judgment. I cannot reconcile the statement that God "prejudged" the homosexuals and then allow them to change in the "period of grace" as you call now. Can you explain further?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, here is an exerpt from my hub, which you read?

"Romans 1:26-32 “…God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, …that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.” Do you see Gay Pride movements here? "God gave them over" appears to be A JUDGMENT, turning these over to Satan. If homosexuals are said that "they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer", they cannot be homosexual and Christian."


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

Thanks for the quote.

YOU WROTE: "God gave them over" appears to be A JUDGMENT, turning these over to Satan.

ANSWER: All unrighteousness is sin and separates us from God. When "God gave them over," He allows them to continue in their behaviour. It is not a pre-judgment. It is God's stance on all sins.

YOU WROTE: (PREVIOUSLY) I did not comment then.

"Homosexuals have already been "given over", and God's grace is yet giving them the choice to repent, just as the choice will still be there for those left behind after the rapture of the Church."

ANSWER: There will be none left behind after the rapture.

Judgment is for all dead and the just and unjust still alive. All will be judged together at one time.

Tribulation, disaster and trials fall on all men at the same time. Remember the tsunami and earthquakes where hundreds of thousands die.

1 Cor 10:13

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Christians will also suffer in times of disasters, but God will find a way for them to escape temptations, trials, etc.

They have to trust God.

When it snows, does it not affect the whole population? When the temperature is extremely hot, does it not affect all in the country?

Rely and trust in the Lord God.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Iron sharpens iron, amen? You said, "ANSWER: There will be none left behind after the rapture."

Matthew 24:40-42 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming."

Luke 17:35- "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."

There will be a "catching up" (rapture) as recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord."

There will be two more resurrections a thousand years apart; the believers that died during the Great Tribulation prior to the millennial reign of Christ; and the unbelievers of all time after the millennial reign of Christ. Reference Revelation 20:4-5 "I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed." Truly, the rewarding of the saints and judgment of the lost will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment after the millennial reign (Revelation 20:11-15).


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, I have hub that scripturally goes into this ~ the fact that Jesus comes just as he left (which was not on a white horse with the saints) ~ the rapture of the Church; the second will be at the end of the Great Tribulation (on a white horse with the saints) when he defeats the enemy at the battle of Har-Magedon and sets up His millennial reign on earth. The New Heaven and New Earth do not come to fruition until after the Judgment Seat of Christ. The name of my hub is "In the Air - On the Earth".

Regarding the number of resurrections being four, indeed, we see saints resurrected at the time Jesus was; we see the rapture of the Church (I believe mid-Trib), the resurrection of the saints at the end of the Great Tribulation for the millennial reign, and the resurrection of the unbelievers at the Great White Throne judgment. The "two resurrections" shown in Revelation are the latter two only.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: "Homosexuals have already been "given over",

ANSWER: All sins can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Mt 12:31

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

God, therefore will not go against His own words and not forgive the homosexuals who repent. He will not pre-judge for who knows the homosexuals will not repent before they die as the thief on the cross repented just before his death. All glory to God.

I WROTE: "ANSWER: There will be none left behind after the rapture."

The second appearance of the Lord is the Lord's judgment day. He shall execute judgment once and for all and separate the sheep from the goats.

Hebrews 9:28

So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus appeared the first time to die for our sins and the second time without sin unto salvation.

He appeared ONLY TWICE on earth.

YOU WROTE:

Matthew 24:40-42 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

Luke 17:35- "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.

ANSWER: The above two verses from Mt. 24:40-42 and Luke 17:35- show the time when Jesus appeared the second time on earth to judge the people while (1) the two men were working, one would be taken (selected) as a sheep while the other (goat) was rejected. Similarly as will be the case with the two women. One was accepted, the other rejected.

YOU WROTE: There will be two more resurrections a thousand years apart.

ANSWER: The Bible does not record "three resurrections",only "two".

The first resurrection occurs when the believer is baptized in the blood and likeness of Jesus' death. He is buried like Jesus (buried, completely submerged) and covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. The believer is dead in Christ and resurrected a new man, his sins being forgiven and washed away in baptism. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE BELIEVER.

The believer is resurrected from being dead in sins to a new creature in Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in his heart teaching him the ways of the Lord.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord's reckoning of time.

In the first resurrection of the believer, the Spirit of Christ dwells and reigns in his heart for a millenium (a period of time).

All for the glory of God!


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: Regarding the number of resurrections being four,

ANSWER: The Bible NAMES the RESURRECTION as ONLY TWO. It does not NAME RESURRECTION THREE and FOUR. They are only explanations by Man, not BIBLICAL.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I never said a homosexual couldn't repent and be forgiven. I'm am stating that because God "gave them over", they cannot be a practicing homosexual and claim to be a Christian.

We have both given our interpretations of the scriptures, and you cannot deny there was a physical resurrection at the time Jesus rose from the dead. Two are shown in Revelation (pre- and post-millennia). Now, you've read into yet another interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ? What doctrine do you follow? The Antichrist and False Prophet are both thrown into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the millennial reign. Are you saying they are there now? NO WAY. The end-time Antichrist and False Prophet are yet to be revealed.

You also are misinterpreting the rapture scriptures (left behind), as in context, they are speaking about the "being caught up" when the Lord returns. I suggest you read the entire passages.

Once again, we will have to agree to disagree. Some of the stuff you teach does not follow Orthodox Christian doctrine, nor inductive doctrinal study. However, the fact you know Jesus is God is all that matters.

I will not be commenting anymore on this stuff. In His grace, einron....


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: you cannot deny there was a physical resurrection at the time Jesus rose from the dead. Two are shown in Revelation (pre- and post-millennia).

ANSWER: Of course, I am not denying that there was a physical resurrection. The angel said that Jesus would come again just He was going up to heaven (Acts 1:11).

YOU WROTE: Now, you've read into yet another interpretation of the millennial reign of Christ? What doctrine do you follow?

ANSWER: I follow the Bible, not any so called "doctrine".

YOU WROTE: The Antichrist and False Prophet are both thrown into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the millennial reign. Are you saying they are there now? NO WAY. The end-time Antichrist and False Prophet are yet to be revealed.

ANSWER: When and where did I say the Antichrist and False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire?

I said that when Jesus Christ comes the SECOND TIME, He will pass judgment all at one shot. Christians will not forego trials, tribulations and disasters and will not be

"raptured" before the tribulation.

I wrote earlier and repeat it again.

"Tribulation, disaster and trials fall on all men at the same time. Remember the tsunami and earthquakes where hundreds of thousands die.

1 Cor 10:13

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

"Christians will also suffer in times of disasters, but God will find a way for them to escape temptations, trials, etc.

They have to trust God."

YOU WROTE: Some of the stuff you teach does not follow Orthodox Christian doctrine, nor inductive doctrinal study.

ANSWER: I do not follow Orthodox Christian doctrine, nor inductive doctrinal study. Sorry to disappoint you for I have not studied either one of them.

I read the Bible and I quote what the Bible says.

No offence meant, but I interpret it according to the Bible.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, I don't know how we got from homosexuality to resurrections, but here we are: Since you learn and teach by reading the Word, please read Revelation 19:20 thru Revelation 20:5. You will see that the "first resurrection" happens when the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire, just as the millennial reign of Christ begins. You said the first resurrection of two is when someone gets saved (baptized). That is not in alignment with this passage. The second resurrection (of unbelievers) happens after the millennial reign (at the time of the Great White Throne Judgment).

So, considering these facts, there are at least three resurrections thus far (the time Jesus was resurrected when bodies came out of their tombs in Matthew 27:53), and the two in Revelation, which have not happened yet, based on the fact that the Antichrist and False Prophet are not yet in the Lake of Fire (first resurrection).

Christians and Jews will be persecuted during the Tribulation period, but will not be here when the Wrath of God is poured out. They are two different things. Noah and Lot were safely out of the way when God's wrath fell. So it will be in the Day of the Lord (Ma 24:38-44; Luke 17:26-29). The passage in Matthew here will show you about the one being taken and the other left behind, as well.

"Caught up to meet the Lord IN THE AIR" (1 Thes 4:17) is in alignment with "thief in the night" (1 Thes 5:2/Rev 16:15), and is a resurrection of the dead saints and the change (in the twinkling of an eye) of the living saints, prior to the wrath of God being poured out (read Revelation 16:15-19: "I come as a thief", which is the last trumpet of God, between the sixth and seventh bowls). Just after this is the fall of Babylon, the beginning of God's wrath. When God's wrath is completed, the Lord returns with his saints (Revelation 19:11-14). The final battle happens here and ends with the Antichrist and False Prophet being cast into the Lake of Fire, thus the first resurrection and beginning of the millennial reign (again in Revelation 19:20-20:5).

That's why I stated four resurrections: at the time Jesus was resurrected, the time of the rapture of the church (after 3.5 years of tribulation, yet prior to the wrath of God), the resurrection prior to and after the millennial reign ~ when all stand before the Judgement seat of Christ (Rev 20:13).

I plan to write hubs on how to inductively study, as this made a tremendous difference in my ability to "rightly divide" the Word. Prior to this, all I knew was based on what I read, my own understanding, or that of my pastor (at the time, my pastor taught we are all going to be doorknobs or toenails in heaven?!).

I really love you, einron; you are highly educated and obviously love the Lord and His Word. I revere (fear) the office of teacher, and want to be sure that what I write can be tested inductively and come out accurately. Teachers will be held more accountable by God, according to James 3:1.

May the grace of our Lord lead us, and all glory to His name.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: You will see that the "first resurrection" happens when the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire, just as the millennial reign of Christ begins.

ANSWER: Jesus' millennial reign occurs when Satan the Devil is temporarily bound for a period and later let loose for a season.

Revelation 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This is the period when Jesus was preached and accepted. The people who accepted Christ are baptized in the blood of Jesus Christ in the likeness of His death. This is when Jesus reigns for Satan cannot stop people from following Him.

Romans 6:4-5

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be in the LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION.

THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST ARE RESURRECTED FROM DEATH for the original sin of Adam and Eve and personal sins.

We were dead once before we believe in Jesus. After the baptism and our sins forgiven, we are resurrected as new persons. That is the FIRST RESURRECTION.

After our FIRST RESURRECTION, we may sin with our thoughts or actions, but life continues. We may live twenty or thirty years after we become Christians. We must pray the Lord's Prayer every day we are alive for God to forgive our sins.

Jesus comes again on earth the SECOND TIME to pass JUDGMENT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

In the parable of the wheat and tares, God only passed judgment at the end.

Matthew 13:24-30

Let both grow together until the harvest:

`

SHEEP AND GOATS

Matthew 25:32-33

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

JESUS' JUDGMENT IS ONCE AND FOR ALL

YOU WROTE: They are two different things. Noah and Lot were safely out of the way when God's wrath fell.

ANSWER: Matthew 24:37-38

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark.

It shows that the people were behaving as the people of Noah's time. They are oblivious of God doing what please them.

ANTI CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET

Those who are against God: Antiochus Epiphanes, Nero, Caligula, Islam to name a few.

FALSE PROPHET

Mohammad

Noah and his family were saved because Noah was righteous and the world was still in progress. The whole world was destroyed except Noah and family. Life started again with the family of Noah.

BUT when Jesus comes again the second time, it is JUDGMENT TIME.

Are Christians not resurrected (the old creature)when they become Christians?

The Bible is very specific and precise. Please quote the verses in which there are FOUR RESURRECTIONS, because ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS ARE MENTIONED and NAMED IN THE BIBLE.

Let us pray for each other to God for more understanding. We may not be completely right in the sight of the Lord. God Bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

What you have missed is that the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire at the same time Satan is bound for a thousand years (NO EVIL present for the millennial reign). Because the Antichrist and False Prophet are not yet in the Lake of Fire, Satan is not yet bound. This has yet to happen, and it begins AFTER the Great Tribulation. Again, please read Revelation 19:20 through chapter 20:5.

While baptism is a spiritual likeness of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, this was practiced by John the Baptist, even before Christ was revealed in the flesh, before Jesus died and rose again. The four resurrections I'm talking about are literal and physical, not spiritual. I gave you all the applicable scripture passages in my comment above to prove the four resurrections.

Yes, Jesus will judge the world AFTER the millennial reign. Satan is first loosed, then he and his armies are destroyed by fire from heaven and cast into the Lake of Fire. That is when all the unbelievers are resurrected and the sheep are separated from the goats. The sheep will enter the New Heaven and New Earth with Jesus (the New Jerusalem); the goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:7-chapter 21:1.

If the rapture/resurrection were to happen at the beginning of the millennial reign (when the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire and Satan Bound), it would not be "as in the days of Noah and Lot", for there will be no wrath of God to fall when the millennial reign begins. Evil will not be present. The purpose of the rapture is to take the church out of the way for the wrath of God to fall. This is why some will be "left behind", just as those left outside the ark and left in Sodom and Gomorrah.

I hope that clarifies things a bit more. I strongly suggest you read the passages I gave you in the previous comment, and also my hub called "In the Air-On the Earth". There's really no better way to explain this to you, but to let the Bible do it. That's the very best way :-)


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: What you have missed is that the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire at the same time Satan is bound for a thousand years (NO EVIL present for the millennial reign).

ANSWER: When the Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire, it is Jesus' Judgment on them at the end of the world.

What is the point of having Satan bound when there is nobody living in the world? Who will Satan tempt?

YOU WROTE: The four resurrections I'm talking about are literal and physical, not spiritual.

ANSWER: I am talking about the spiritual FIRST and SECOND RESURRECTIONS.

YOU WROTE: The purpose of the rapture is to take the church out of the way for the wrath of God to fall.

ANSWER: I disagree on this point.

Judgment is called on those who are already dead, those who are alive but believers of Christ and those who do not believe in Christ. Judgment is already pronounced.

It is a misconception that those who believe in Jesus Christ will not go through trials and tribulations. They will but God would find them a way to escape when they trust in God.

Tribulation, disasters and trials fall on all men at the same time. Remember the tsunami and earthquakes where hundreds of thousands die.

1 Cor 10:13

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I thank you for showing me the inductive method. I have heard of it and I have read Rev. B. Graham's daughter message about it. Thanks for your concern. My method is more simple. I pray to God for guidance and the Holy Spirit has helped me to write. I have Strong's Concordance but I refer to Cruden's Concordance more and the book belongs to my dad and it is in tatters, but I still use the copy.

Pray that the Lord guides us. Amen.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Jesus and the saints will be on earth in peace for that thousand years. There will be no evil present. Again, the millennial reign of Christ doesn't begin until after the Great Tribulation and final battle, casting the Antichrist and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire and binding Satan.

The Great Tribulation consists of 3.5 years of tribulation, then 3.5 years of the wrath of God. As in the days of Noah and Lot, the Church will be "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" before the outpouring of God's wrath. Some left behind will still get saved during the wrath of God and will be resurrected at the beginning of the millennial reign when all evil is removed. That is the first resurrection of Revelation.

While there are disasters, wars and so forth, nothing will be like the time of great distress to come. This is what Jesus said, and it is known as the "Time of Jacob's Trouble". Jews who have rejected their Messiah will be left behind to endure no greater hardship, leading them to repentance. God promised that all Israel would be saved. (Isaiah 45:17; Romans 11:26) We want to remember that Romans 8:1 states, "There is therefore now no condemnation (judgment) for those who are in Christ Jesus".

The unsaved dead will not be resurrected until after the millennial reign (after Satan is once again released, destroyed and cast into the Lake of Fire). That is when they stand before the judgment seat of Christ and those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire. The saints will then be given eternity in the New Heaven and New Earth ~ dwelling in the New Jerusalem in the very presence of God :-) ~ Amen.

I pray you will just re-read the book of Revelation, even all the passages I quoted to you here, for it is very literal and orderly (as the seven seals, trumpets, etc. are all in order). I also again, invite you to read my hub "In the Air-On the Earth". I've also since written a hub called "How to do an Inductive Bible Study" :-)

God bless you ~ JD


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, I love you with the love of the Lord, and you have a gift of writing and I know you love the Lord! At this point, I'd rather not continue restating the same things; I have directed you to the scripture passages and it's now up to you to challenge what you've been taught or have believed until now...this is not a matter of salvation, but it is important that what we teach cannot be challenged by the Word of God. If it is consistent with the Word, it simply cannot be challenged. God bless you abundantly, and I will be praying for you as you continue in His ministry ;-)


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: Again, the millennial reign of Christ doesn't begin until after the Great Tribulation and final battle, casting the Antichrist and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire and binding Satan.

ANSWER: Wrong!!! The milennial reign of Christ started before the Great Tribulation. It started when the Church of Jesus Christ was established. Satan was unable to stop people from following Jesus Christ. Martin Luther felt the Roman Catholic Church was wrong to sell indulgences and he posted 95 theses. It was the start of the REFORMATION in 1517 AD. This whole period until today is the milennial reign of Jesus Christ reign on the earth. People are still following Christ! and the Spirit of Jesus Christ is reigning in the hearts of His believers. The HOLY SPIRIT is active now in the milennial period of Christ's reign.

Satan is let loose when people will be prevented from becoming Christians. They will be fiercely persecuting Christians and Antichrist and the False Prophet will be actively touting and honing their weapons against Jesus Christ and followers. This is the period of Great Tribulation before the start of Armageddon where the forces of God and evil fight the greatest battle. God will win the battle and the Antichrist, the False Prophet and Satan will be defeated and thrown into everlasting fire and brimstone.

YOU WROTE: As in the days of Noah and Lot, the Church will be "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" before the outpouring of God's wrath.

ANSWER: Wrong! There will be no "rapture" before the Great Tribulation.

1 PET 4:12-13

Beloved, think it not strange, concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are PARTAKERS OF CHRIST'S SUFFERINGS: (v.13).

ZECHARIAH 13:9

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and wil try them as gold is tried:

MALACHI 3:2-3

But who may abide the day of his coming: and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

And he shall sit as refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

Christians are not exempt from trials, and temptations. The earthquakes, tornadoes and tsunami also affect Christians and non Christians alike, but not so much where Christians live. In a city like Toroonto, the snow affects the whole population, whether you are Christian or not.

NOAH and LOT were saved from death. In the end time, Christians are not getting saved from death to continue to live on earth, but are enduring suffering like Christ.

YOU WROTE: Some left behind will still get saved during the wrath of God and will be resurrected at the beginning of the millennial reign when all evil is removed. That is the first resurrection of Revelation.

ANSWER: The FIRST RESURRECTION is when Christians accepted Christ, is baptized, is buried into Christ death,and sins are forgiven. The Christian arises from his SPIRITUAL DEATH to a NEW CREATURE IN JESUS CHRIST. this is the FIRST RESURRECTION. The resurrection is a spiritual resurrection because all Christians do not simply die physically but are spiritually arisen.

Pray for God's wisdom.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, you refuse to read the passages I gave you. Revelation clearly states the Antichrist and False prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire BEFORE the millennial reign of Christ. How can Satan be bound if he empowers the Antichrist and False Prophet who are yet to come? You clearly don't want to read the scriptures I gave you and are simply choosing to be "indoctrinated". I have done all I can do to help you see, but you must be obedient to read the proof in the Bible ~ the passages I gave you are CLEAR. His grace be upon you ~ JD


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

YOU WROTE: einron, you refuse to read the passages I gave you. Revelation clearly states the Antichrist and False prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire BEFORE the millennial reign of Christ.

ANSWER: I have read what you quoted many times before I replied to you. I prayed over and over many times too that I have the right answer. May God help us for we do not see eye to eye.

QUOTING WHAT I WROTE BEFORE

ANSWER: When the Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire, it is Jesus' Judgment on them at the end of the world.

What is the point of having Satan bound when there is nobody living in the world when the Antichrist and False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire? Why would God cast the Antichrist and False Prophet into the fire BEFORE THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF CHRIST? All human beings die once and they are judged when JESUS RETURNS THE SECOND TIME. Who will Satan tempt?

You do not accept Nero who had killed many Christians before as Antichrist which I pointed out to you earlier.

TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, I AM PRINTING THIS AGAIN.

ANTI CHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET

Those who are against God: Antiochus Epiphanes, Nero, Caligula, Islam to name a few.

FALSE PROPHET

Mohammad, the different deities of various cultures.

THE ANTICHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET WILL BE JUDGED WHEN JESUS COMES AGAIN AS THE REST OF THE WORLD. JUDGMENT IS METED OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL. THE DEAD, THE LIVING IN CHRIST, THE NON- BELIEVERS AND SATAN too will be thrown INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

You are expecting the Antichrist and the False Prophet to be named, but history has also shown us who some of them are.

You do not comprehend that the millenial reign of Christ was when the CHURCH OF JESUS was ESTABLISHED UNTIL THE PRESENT AGE. THE HOLY SPIRIT REIGNS IN THE HEARTS OF THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST. THIS IS THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF CHRIST.

ANSWER: I have read your message many times over and over again. Please do not assume anything. I have answered your question earlier, but you did not perceive. Neither can I see your point, but I know that you love Jesus too.

May the Lord open our eyes, ears and heart to comprehend the mystery.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

The Bible does tell us there will be many antichrists and false prophets (and you've named a few), but the one in Revelation is the last and the worst. Regardless, we know the Antichrist and False Prophet (the one who forces the mark of the beast) have not arrived on the scene yet, let alone been cast into the lake of fire. Therefore, the millennial reign has not yet come. See the following passage:

FIRST, THE ANTICHRIST AND FALSE PROPHET ARE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE:

We see a great battle in Revelation 19:19 (Har-Magedon). In verse 20 "And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worhiped his image; these TWO were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone."

In verse 21 that battle is ended "And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat upon the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh."

You just read that the beast (Antichrist) and false prophet (these TWO) have been cast into the lake of fire, right? Verse 21 was the last verse of Chapter 19, so let's go on to Chapter 20:

SATAN IS BOUND:

Chapter 20:1-3 "And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, UNTIL THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE COMPLETED; after these things he must be released for a short time." It says here that he cannot deceive the nations until the thousand years are over.

I will go ahead and type the remaining verses here of Chapter 20 so you can see the order of what happens:

THE RESURRECTION OF THE SAINTS (BELIEVERS) THAT REIGN WITH CHRIST 1,000 YEARS (CHRIST IN JERUSALEM - THE BELOVED CITY - ON EARTH):

Verse 4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection.

5. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

6. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

SATAN IS RELEASED TO DECEIVE THE NATIONS AND ATTEMPT TO ATTACK THE SAINTS AND THE BELOVED CITY:

7. And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8. and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, GOG & MAGOG, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9. And they came up on the broad plain OF THE EARTH and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are also, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Here, we see that Satan is finally cast into the lake of fire... WHERE THE BEAST AND FALSE PROPHET ALREADY ARE, but AFTER the millennial reign of Christ and the saints. Let's continue on with verse 11:

THE SECOND RESURRECTION (THE UNBELIEVING) AND THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST

11. And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14. And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, my take on the "books" and "The book of life" is that the unbelievers, now resurrected and standing before the Judgment Seat of Christ will be judged according to what is written in the "books" (deeds). Those whose names are written in "The book of Life" are not judged according to their deeds, for they have already been resurrected (prior to the millennial reign) and are covered by the blood of the Lamb. We read earlier in Rev 20:6 that over them, the second death has no power.

THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH ARE CHAPTERS 21-22.

I hope this helps. We should just have a whole 'nother hub on eschatology :-) We are hanging in there ~


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter,

Thank you for your final comments which I appreciate even though I do not fully agree with you. It is now left to the other readers who wish to comment.

YOU WROTE: Therefore, the millennial reign has not yet come.

ANSWER: MILLENNIAL REIGN

Jesus Christ came to the world to die for our sins. He had accomplished the will of God and was resurrected on the third day. JESUS IS VICTORIOUS! JESUS REIGNS!

On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on His 120 disciples thus establishing the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. JESUS IS VICTORIOUS for the HOLY SPIRIT now dwells in the hearts of the believers. JESUS REIGNS FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. SATAN IS POWERLESS TO BEGUILE THE ELECT. THIS IS THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF OUR BELOVED JESUS CHRIST.

There are ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS mentioned in the Bible and not four as claimed, which cannot be proven.

FIRST RESURRECTION

ANSWER: The FIRST RESURRECTION is when a Christian accepts Christ, is baptized, buried into Christ's death,and sins are forgiven. The Christian is resurrected from his/her SPIRITUAL DEATH to a NEW CREATURE IN JESUS CHRIST. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. The resurrection is a spiritual one because a Christian does not die physically when he becomes a Christian but is spiritually resurrected from spiritual death to spiritually born again.

SECOND RESURRECTION

When Jesus returns the second time, He will judge all people on the earth. Those who were resurrected on the FIRST RESURRECTION will have no problem with the SECOND RESURRECTION for their bodies will change into spiritual bodies and will be with Christ.

JUDGMENT IS SWIFT AS IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE (1 Cor.15:52). God will separate the sheep from the goats. The tares will be allowed to grow as the wheat until the day of harvest and separated on Judgment Day.

THE DEAD WILL ARISE, THOSE BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS WHO ARE ALIVE WILL BE JUDGED AND SENTENCED. THE FINAL BATTLE BETWEEN THE GOOD AND EVIL WILL BE FOUGHT AND THERE WILL BE VICTORY FOR THE GOOD. THIS WILL HAPPEN IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.

IF SATAN IS NOT BOUND TEMPORARILY, HOW CAN THERE BE CHRISTIANS AT ALL? HOW CAN THERE BE A MILLENNIAL REIGN?

The time will come when SATAN IS LET LOOSE AND HAVOC WILL ENSUE.

GOD WIIL HELP THE ELECT IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Praise and thank God for His mercy towards us. AMEN.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, sister ~ in love, I have just two challenging points to bring to your attention for you to pray about and let the Lord show you...

You said, "The Christian is resurrected from his/her SPIRITUAL DEATH to a NEW CREATURE IN JESUS CHRIST. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION."

The Apostle Paul said long after Jesus Christ had died and rose again, after people were being baptized into His death, burial and resurrection, and after the day of Penecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out: 2 Timothy 2:18 "men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some." As you can see, the resurrection has not already happened, nor had it at the time of Paul writing to Timothy.

Considering Revelation 19:20 states the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire with all those who received the mark of the beast; and at the same time Satan is bound in the bottomless pit, shown in the next three verses (thus, the beginning of the millennial riegn of Christ), how can you then name several Antichrists and False Prophets that didn't come about until after the millennial reign started?

Furthermore, since Revelation states the Dragon (Satan) gives the Antichrist his power (Rev 13:2-4) and that the False Prophet speaks as a Dragon (Rev 13:11), the Dragon cannot have been bound in the bottomless pit while these Antichrists and False Prophets you named came into existance. They have killed countless "elect", so you cannot say that he hasn't been able to begile the elect since Jesus ascended into heaven.

Have you seen the mark of the beast yet? Do you believe that is yet to happen?


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

YOU WROTE: 2 Timothy 2:18 "men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some."

ANSWER: The FIRST RESURRECTION happens during different intervals when the believers accept Christ, are baptized and sins forgiven. This is a one time experience for all happening at different times when they are baptized, died spiritually with Christ and resurrected with Christ spiritually.

BUT THE SECOND RESURRECTION WILL BE AT THE TIME OF JUDGMENT WHEN ALL ARE JUDGED.

YOU WROTE: As you can see, the resurrection has not already happened, nor had it at the time of Paul writing to Timothy.

ANSWER: When Paul talked to Timothy, he was talking about the SECOND RESURRECTION WHICH WAS YET TO COME in the days of Paul and Timothy, and also in our present time.

YOU WROTE: As you can see, the resurrection has not already happened, nor had it at the time of Paul writing to Timothy.

ANSWER: The beast and the False Prophet were thrown into the Lake of Fire WHEN THE SECOND RESURRECTION OCCURS. This is the end of the chapter.

You cannot lump together this episode together with Satan being bound a thousand years. This is the start of a new chapter.

Satan being bound temporarily while Jesus reigns means Satan is not able to completely cut people off from believing in Christ. The millennial year is still going strong as more people are coming to Jesus Christ.

The time will come when Satan is released and that is the time when people will be running back and forth seeking God and finding nothing.

YOU WROTE: how can you then name several Antichrists and False Prophets that didn't come about until after the millennial reign started?

ANSWER: God and Jesus Christ the SON are both the same GOD.

Antichrists and False Prophers were in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament. There are many of them AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE POWER GIVEN BY SATAN AND SPEAK LIKE SATAN.

YOU WROTE: They have killed countless "elect", so you cannot say that he hasn't been able to begile the elect since Jesus ascended into heaven.

ANSWER: Even though Jesus had ascended into heaven, God had given Jesus power to operate with HIS AUTHORITY on earth. God is omniscient, omipresent and with mighty power of the Holy Spirit.

SATAN IS A SPIRIT. ANTICHRISTS AND FALSE PROPHETS ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

SATAN IS BOUND, BUT THE ANTICHRISTS AND FALSE PROPHETS WILL GET THEIR PUNISHMENT AFTER THE JUDGMENT. They are not bound like Satan.

The Antichrists and False Prophet came into existence when they were born and they chose how to lead their lives. God gives us free choice to choose.

YOU WROTE: They have killed countless "elect", so you cannot say that he hasn't been able to begile the elect since Jesus ascended into heaven.

ANSWER: THE ANTICHRISTS AND FALSE PROPHET HAVE KILLED MANY PEOPLE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND WILL DO THE SAME IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

SATAN HAS BEGUILED many people and will continue until the day when Jesus comes again to judge the world.

As for your question on the mark of the beast, I have heard and read about it, but am not comfortable to really comment on it.

God bless.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

Very intriguing conversations here. . .

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. . . puts all my temptations in perspective for the real objective.

Blame is a weapon used for enslaving. . . Proverbs 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things. (I am not calling anyone evil here!. . . just making points clear as you are here.)

There are two kinds of secrets: 1 those we keep from ourselves and 2 those we keep from others. . . except for Job . . . his troubles were a testiment of his strength of faith in God not due to sin.

There is no perfect life, only life. The struggles of minds given over to lies are deep, just like the unborn infant of the cocaine addict, causing that baby further life havoc . . . who are we, only giving sympathy for all that bleeds? . . . when 'sitting with that pain' (empathy) is what we all really need . . . as those are the seeds of creeds that will be taking on the abomination of desolation's weeds spoken of in Daniel. . . where we are going to need all the help we can get for that lead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFncfrBViss&feature...

Thanks for the opportunity that I make this rendition only inspired for the purpose of bringing more peace for your lives in.

God bless!

Clare


ClareBaros 7 years ago

einron:

you quoted: "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance" (Luke 15:7). "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth" (v.10).The option is open to those who seek.

Isn't the context of this Scripture talking about salvation and not sin? The Greek word for repentance is metanoia which means 'change of mind' . . . as evidenced concerning salvation in the context spoken of in that Scripture.

Can we say this is a solid promise given in Christ? John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Changing our minds that we trust Christ does not remove our struggles; yes our sin - - - why God admonishes us that we pray for His help nonstop . . . and probably why the minority see truth and not the majority. Can anyone agree with this?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Notice what is said about a "depraved mind":

Romans 1:26- "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper..."

1 Tim 6:5 "...men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth..."

2 Tim 3:8 "...so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith."

In my hub series about Spiritual Warfare, Christians will struggle with sin and be disciplined by God, for God disciplines those He loves, for we are His children. On the other hand, Satan has children too. They do the will of their father the devil. While they receive judgment and condemnation on the last day, there is no judgment/condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1) Amen.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

My pastor has taught me, if you believe you can loose your salvation, you’re probably not saved. Why? Because that really means that you’re working for your salvation. You’re saying that, from now until you die, if you live the Christian life you’re going to go to Heaven when you die. But if you don’t live the Christian life and you backslide you’re gonna go to hell. That means how you live your life determines your salvation, not Christ. It means you’re the savior, not Christ and that means you’re not saved. Because the Bible tells us salvation is not of works.

And that is why poems like this - by William Blake - - - can confirm my bliss -

Man was made for joy and woe;And when this we rightly know, Thro' the world we safely go. Joy and woe are woven fine,A clothing for the soul divine. Under every grief and pine Runs a joy with silken twine.

I know . . . I talk too much . . . it is my biggest crutch. So much for enough. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for the lovely displays (hubs).

Clare


ClareBaros 7 years ago

Thank you Judah's Daughter. Your Scripture does not dispel The Father's promise of John 6:39. Yes, sin does open doors for being oppressed from Satan. . . but never is it to be used to condem.

Thank you for the conversation. Gotta go to work now.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

When we are truly saved, the old man passes away. We will know Christians by their fruits. We are not the Judge, but Jesus said the Word of God will judge on the last day, so we'd best know what it says, so we know the truth and are set free by that truth! Amen :-)

The Word is clear that the children of God do the will of the Father; the children of Satan do the will of their father.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father."

The Word of God is Truth and we are to share it and walk in it. God bless ~~


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

Thanks for the comments. All are welcome to comment.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

YOU WROTE: Isn't the context of this Scripture talking about salvation and not sin?

ANSWER: It is hard to separate the two subjects for salvation depends on whether the person has any sins. If he has, he cannot be saved unless he repents and gets rid of his sins.

YOU WROTE: why God admonishes us that we pray for His help nonstop . . . and probably why the minority see truth and not the majority. Can anyone agree with this?

ANSWER: We have to pray nonstop for forgiveness because if we have any sin in us, we are barred from heaven.

Christians are misinformed that when we sin as Christians, it is OK for God loves us and believe Jesus saves us. WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THE SINS BY REPENTING BEFORE WE CAN BE SAVED. How can we say that this is work because we strive to stay sinless BECAUSE WE LOVE JESUS.

When we become Christians, we have faith in Jesus, but we still strive to stay sinless BECAUSE OF LOVE OF CHRIST. It is the motivation.

""Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like ...which do such thing shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:19-21).

"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie" (Rev 21:27)."

CHRISTIANS HAVE TO STAY MOTIVATED TO STAY FREE FROM SIN TO PLEASE THE SAVIOUR.

God bless.

"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judh's Daughter

YOU WROTE: Notice what is said about a "depraved mind":

ANSWER: No comments needed.

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

YOU WROTE: My pastor has taught me, if you believe you can loose your salvation, you’re probably not saved.

ANSWER: Quite true, if you loose your salvation, you are not saved. REMEMBER, YOU ARE JUDGED ONCE AND ONLY WHEN JESUS COMES THE SECOND TIME, not before.

REMEMBER THERE ARE ONLY TWO RESURRECTIONS, once after you believe in Christ, are baptized in His Blood and water.

QUESTION: WHY DOES THE BIBLE SAY THERE ARE TWO RESURRECTIONS?

DOESN'T THAT MEAN YOU CAN FALL THROUGH THE CRACK?

WHY GO THROUGH THE SECOND RESURRECTION? WHY IS THERE ANOTHER HURDLE?

If you are judged unsaved, you are the "goat" in the parable.

GOD BLESS.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

einron, a Christian cannot lose their salvation. This would be fully contradictory to Romans 7:16-17 "But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."

This is the way Jesus sees His children: "no longer am I the one sinning, but the sin which dwells in me"

Romans 7:24 "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Those who are lawless, who mock the law of God and say it's foolish, those who are rebellious against receiving the sacrifice of Christ, Who is our Advocate, are not saved and will be judged according to their deeds. They are condemned already unless they repent by accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and agree that the Law is good. This causes conviction to repent of our sin as Christians.

God disciplines those He loves, but they are not condemned. God judges those who reject Him and they are condemned. Amen.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

YOU WROTE: einron, a Christian cannot lose their salvation

ANSWER: A true Christian will have salvation. However, many are called Christians in name only.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

Truly so, einron :-) God bless you!


ClareBaros 7 years ago

Ladies thanks for all your efforts here. Looks like you've made things very clear. Now we'll just wait to see the wheat and the tears with The Sword in the face of abomination desolation bear.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Judah's Daughter

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

YOU WROTE: Now we'll just wait to see the wheat and the tears with The Sword in the face of abomination desolation bear.

ANSWER: You are truly a wise man for you leave the decision to the Master and Judge of all Mankind in the matter of the sheep and goats, or the wheat or the tares.

Good night, dear friend.

God bless.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

. . . sits down and stares at your words of care where, in a sea of oppressive manipulations, still bears . . . thank you.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

Thanks for your comments. Jesus cares no matter what the situation is. He is just and fair to everybody, and when called on Him, He will answer with love and compassion. I really appreciate what you said though quite brief but precise. Thank God for the connect.

For a long time after publishing the hub, the Comment Section was not attached to the hub. I was new and did not know what to do. Later, I wrote to team@hubpages about the situation and voila, the Comment Section appears, and this is why we are writing to each other. This is the only hub that had a missing section. Now the missing link is connected, and I am very glad that communication can flow easily. Praise the Lord.


A M Werner profile image

A M Werner 7 years ago from West Allis

Wow, this conversation has been going on a long time. Sorry I didn't get a chance to read it earlier.

As far as homosexuality in general goes, one of the main points of the homosexual arguement is, 'You can't help who you are attracted too.'

Christianity teaches temperance and self-control. In a world where sexuality is casual and adultery raved, it is no wonder any teachings of temperance and self-control are regarded as foolishness.

Those who claim to be homosexual say that it is scientifically justifiable and thus no temperance or self-control should change their behavior. Sounds like the same arguement those committing and justifying adultery make. They believe people just can't help themselves from having sex. Through Christ we can have control over all of our human impulses. It is not necessarily easy, but doable.

In Hebrews 11:24-25, Moses chose to suffer the affliction of His people rather than enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Having sex outside of marriage is as much a choice as being homosexual. In the natural world, some things can feel right and good but there has to be a determination on our parts to decide if they are pleasing to the Lord.

2 Timothy 3:2-5 'For men shall be . . . lovers of pleasures more than lovers of Yahweh; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. . .'

The 'power thereof' is the power to live spiritually rather than carnally. Selah


ClareBaros 7 years ago

We all are trying to own our own destinies

that we can make or break it if we choose

But these comment boxes take our words and twist them 'round

'til the weapons of blame become the only sound. . .it's not worth the time per pound. Where is the common ground?


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

A M Werner

Glad that you decided to read and comment. Better late than never.

YOU WROTE: As far as homosexuality in general goes, one of the main points of the homosexual arguement is, 'You can't help who you are attracted too.'

ANSWER: Not true!

Homosexuals do it out of their own volition. Every man is given freedom of choice of action by God who does not force His opinion on us. We are not robots, but have our own will.

Romans 1:24-28

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves...

Look up Cross Ministry and see how the minister had changed from a homosexual to a heterosexual. This year he went to China to address this issue. He is married and has three childen.

There is probably a cause for the action. The person has to pray to God for forgiveness and change.

It is a matter whether they want to change or not. God allows everyone freedom of choice, and we should do the same. Give them the facts and it is up to them to choose.

Life or death, salvation or hell!

God bless.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

I am sorry you were disappointed with the comments for I feel we did try in our own way to reach out. However, one's perception may differ from another. Truth will eventually come out.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

I have read how homosexuality is from a deep-seated disconnection with the parent of their same sex that I see is so rampant in this world from the legacy of hate (Divorce) that is so set. . . proving that it is a choice that we can make or break . . . but words of blame are like a sword (Satan's device) that cut like a knife . . . a strong hold such as this needs our love, kindness and patience that I know helps more out of that fire than we could ever dream or desire. We are all members of one another that God commands we be brothers instead of wounding one another. It's about knowledge and educating because everything has a cause that helps us all remove the flaws. . . that was my main cause about the comment boxes - very hard to read sometimes . . . forcing me that I pause from the comment boxes. Thanks for the bridge.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

. . . speaking of the Promise Land from Joshua, as Scripture has it, their fire is our fire and we are all of one accord that says we shall pass before our brethren armed, all the might men of valour, and help them (J 1:14). . . And until the Lord have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the Lord your God giveth them: then you shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord's servant gave you on this side of Jordan toward the sunrising. . . and so we have it's importance found here http://www.twopaths.com/jneighbr.htm found in Joshua 1:18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

YOU WROTE: I have read how homosexuality is from a deep-seated disconnection with the parent of their same sex that I see is so rampant in this world from the legacy of hate (Divorce) ...

ANSWER: I am sure that it is probably one of the causes, but I am sure there are others too.

I remember reading one case where the father kept hitting his mother and him. The child became isolated and did not connect well with his peers. I could not understand the connection between hating his father and becoming a homosexual.

It is true Jesus said that you must not hate the person, but the act.

YOU WROTE: It's about knowledge and educating because everything has a cause that helps us all remove the flaws.

ANSWER: True, but some educated people are prejudiced. In a class of 40 students, the teacher cannot expect that 40 of his students would absorb what he taught. There are various

levels of absorption.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

The Ten Commandments in the New Testament is divided into two commandments, Love God, Love Man. That is what a Christian should do.

It is not an easy task to do but we have to strive hard to keep the Commandments because of love of Christ. To say that we should not obey rules is ridiculous. As Christians we strive is because of love, and Jesus commands us to obey them. This is our motivation in life.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

I never said we should not obey rules . . . you take my words and twist them around. My words are on points of making mercy clear so those in danger will not fear. It really is true that too much talk causes sneer and, from that, may God keep you and I clear. Thank you for all your time and may we now concentrate on things where there be peace we may find.


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

I WROTE: To say that we should not obey rules is ridiculous. As Christians we strive is because of love, and Jesus commands us to obey them. This is our motivation in life.

Many Christians claim we are under no obligation to obey any rules because Jesus had saved us.

Sorry. I was not pointing at you when I wrote that. It is meant for those who meant it. If the glove does not fit the description, do not wear it.

Don't take offence when no offence is meant. I was speaking generally. Peace.


ClareBaros 7 years ago

Gotcha. :)


einron profile image

einron 7 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

ClareBaros

ANSWER: I think I have been consistent in my reasoning. You are happy with "Gotcha". It is OK with me. Peace and love of God.


dswan9 profile image

dswan9 5 years ago from Amsterdam and London

I didn't realize hubpages gave a voice to such sad facists as yourself.It's disturbing to see that you have not allowed fair and free comments on your hub page.

an article like this encourages the idea that homosexuality is wrong and in doing so encourages people with extremist views to commit violent acts.

In writing this hub page your yourself have partially committed a violent act and i don't doubt that when you come before god it will be with blood on your hands..

this is an utter shame


einron profile image

einron 5 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

dswan9

You are at liberty to call me names and I am not going to delete you. This shows how tolerant I am.

You are not only against me, but against God almighty. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha (Gen.13:10; 19:24; Deut. 29:23; Isa. 1:9; 13;19; Jer. 23:14; 49:18; 50:40; Amos 4:11; Rom.9:29; 2 Pet. 2:6; Jud 7). Repent! Pray for God's deliverance!


Goldentvmemories profile image

Goldentvmemories 4 years ago from London.

We're just going to have to agree to differ.


einron profile image

einron 4 years ago from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA Author

Goldentvmemories

It is fine with me. We all are different. I am glad that you did not call me names. We agree to disagree.

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