A Mosque at Ground Zero

The Muslims want to build a mosque,  The Cordoba House, at ground zero and they hoped to open it on the anniversary of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center.   The reason , they say, is to honor the victims of the attack.  That sounds just great, doesn’t it?  In fact, it sounds nice enough that city leaders, Congress and even the Governor of New York are actually considering it.

On the surface, this plan sounds like they are attempting to make a monument of sorts to the heroes of that horrific day.  And many will rejoice thinking great stride are being made in our relations with the Muslim world.  If we dig a little deeper, we may realize that is not necessarily the case. It is in studying history that we learn that this reaching out may not be all that it appears.   

Mosque over the Temple in Jerusalem
Mosque over the Temple in Jerusalem

History shows us that conquerors prefer seeking out sacred places or sites that hold great meaning for others, whether they are religious places or not, to erect their own monuments.  The sacred places of the conquered must be destroyed and replaced with something new to honor.  Almost every invader has done this for a variety of reasons.  America did it when they attempted to civilize the natives.  The Romans did it everywhere they invaded.  Heck, even Wal-Mart does it, paving over a temple for a larger parking lot near some sacred pyramids. 

Muslims are no exception to this. We see it in every land that Muslims have taken control of.  Greek Orthodox churches, Jewish Temples, Hindu Temples and Christian churches are underneath some of the most famous mosques in the world.  Even the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is evidence that this is so.

9/11 ~ May we never forget!
9/11 ~ May we never forget!

Still, these are just facts. Maybe they don’t mean anything, but what if they do? While I am in no way trying to state that Muslims are conquering the US, I do have to wonder why this spot, at this time. Why is building a mosque specifically at ground zero is so important to them? Would they let Christians put of a church at one of their special places? Even to honor heroes?

A rally was held in June on the site of the World Trade Center in New York City to bring awareness and to protest the idea of a mosque at that sacred spot. The protest was organized by the human rights group Stop The Islamization of America (SIOA) and supported by a wide range of other organizations. 9/11 families were joined by immigrants from India, Russia, Egypt, Israel, Africa, Iran and Europe to show opposition to the construction of a mega-mosque at Ground Zero. Included in the crowd were not only Americans, from many different ethnic backgrounds and races, even Muslims, all united in their opposition to the mosque at this location. Thousands of people showed up. Photos taken at the rally will support that number as do the NYPD. Oddly enough, there wasn’t a single news crew to be found.

Protestors
Protestors

This mosque is a very tricky issue for many Americans.  We firmly believe in the division of church and state.  We also pride ourselves on the diversity of this great country.  More than any other country in the world, America has proven that all peoples are welcome and accepted.  Maybe some may tangle with this thought but the facts are out there.  Are there times when we have messed stuff up? Sure, we have and those facts are also out there.  America is a diverse country. Where would America be without the diversity that we strive for?  But so many people do not like this idea of a Muslim mosque at ground zero.  Not everyone can explain why, but as I heard it said, it just doesn’t feel right.

Proposed Mosque
Proposed Mosque

Instead of becoming a place to promote healing and encourage diversity, a mosque at ground zero will do more harm than good.  It will be a constant reminder of the evil perpetrated there. A quote from an unknown complaint states, ““Who wants to bet this place becomes a "tourist attraction" for Muslims? This mosque will become one of Islam's holiest shrines as it sits upon the site of their greatest modern military victory.”

The Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is behind the proposed mosque near Ground Zero and he is a prominent member of a group called Perdana Global Peace Organization that helps sponsor pro-Palestinian activists.  Members of this group have publically stated that they believe that the whole 9/11 attack was staged. So, how is that an honor to our dead, to those we consider heroes?

Now, no one would deny the right for Muslims to build a place of worship.  But does it really have to be right there?  Seriously?  

It set my mind wondering why ground zero is that important to them.  Especially since they have to know what a huge insult it would be to those who lost loved ones in the attack.  So this most urgent push remains a mystery.  Why our elected officials would even consider this is also a mystery.  The cynic in me says that lots of money must be involved.  The cost of the proposed mosque alone is over $100 million dollars and the source of the funding is not being disclosed.

Leaving all discussions about the merits of one religion over another out of this debate, I truly do not understand the need for the mosque to be built precisely at that spot. A few blocks away would not change the purpose or the grandeur of the new mosque nor would it cause the amount of resentment that comes with this spot.

Americans are constantly being asked to be sensitive to those who believe differently than we do. But in this instance, may we ask for a little sensitivity in return?

Among all of the signs at the rally, this one summed it up for me:

“Sensitivity goes both ways. If you really care, build it elsewhere. “

"It is this man's opinion that a Muslim house of prayer that would be cemented in the ashes of catastrophe at the foot of New York's lost Twin Towers would be a symbolic victory flag for Muslims who seek the destruction of America. Further, it is my honest opinion that no matter how the construction of a mosque at ‘Ground Zero’ may be perceived by well-meaning Americans, the construction of a mosque on the spot where Al-Qaeda brought jihad to the United States will unquestionably represent victory to the worldwide forces of Radical Islam."

~Shelomo Alfassa, a scholar of Judaic life in Islamic and Christian Spain and the former U.S. Director of Justice for Jews from Arab Countries


Also read from: vrajavala

http://hubpages.com/hop/#/Secret-Purpose-of-Michellles-Vacation-to-Spain

Where should Muslims should build their mosque?

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Comments 185 comments

SilverGenes 6 years ago

I agree with you completely. This should not be allowed. The very fact that it was suggested in the first place is ominous. Sorry, but in this case I'm not mincing my words. To construct this would be an abomination and to go a step further, there is no better way to 'win' against one's enemies than to use their own values as weapons against them - in this case, democracy, fairness, and freedom. It's been done successfully elsewhere with the world buying into it hook, line and sinker so why not in America. What a coup indeed for the perpetrators! Awesome hub!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you SilverGenes for your comments. I so appreciate them. Muslims have built on previous sacred places for centuries, it is a tactic they use. Sort of like a - "It's ours now" kind of thing. I can't help but feel that putting the mosque at ground zero plays into that. It's just wrong!


singlmomat52 profile image

singlmomat52 6 years ago

To me this never should even have been debated. It should have been a flat 'NO!!' What a horrible way to disrespect those that lost their lives on 9/11 and to me it disrespects all our boys over there fighting for what this country stands for. How sad that we as Americans should even have to listen to this garbage. This is adding insult to injury. Yes we, Americans!!!, have freedom to worship but this is atrocious and should absolutely not be allowed.

Great Hub!!!

Thank you!!!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

thanks singlemom. I have no idea what the city is thinking to let this go forward. It is insulting. They should find another spot. The spot is just too raw for people. Thanks for stopping by and for your comments.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

Then they will claim the New York belongs to them as in case of Jerusalem.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

God forbid! Vladimir Uhri. They have other mosques in New York already. As they do in most big cities. They want that spot, and we all need to question it, Why that spot?

Thanks for stopping by and commenting. It was nice to meet you.


ReuVera profile image

ReuVera 6 years ago from USA

I rated your hub up! Thank you for writing it. New York authorities should be blind or immoral to even consider this opportunity.

The mosque in Jerusalem which was built over the holiest place of Judaism, over the destroyed Second Temple, was put up by Muslims during the time of Muslim conquest. Jews are not allowed there. Many other authentic Judaism places which are under Muslim jurisdiction have no entrance to other nations. What's more, Muslims now claim Jerusalem. Just give them a finger and they will bite off the hand. They will claim New York in a while too, just give it time.

With a mosque over ground zero they will have a place not to moan over the victims, but to celebrate their victory over faithless (meaning, not Muslims), to rejoice exactly how the Muslim world was rejoicing on 9/11/2001. Did we forget those pictures?

No mosque should be built at ground zero. Period. If I knew a place in the internet where we can sign a petition against it, I will do this.


ReuVera profile image

ReuVera 6 years ago from USA

Oh, I wrote my comment before I saw Vladimir's comment. So, we had the same thought.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome ReuVera, Many of us have the same thoughts. You are so right about the Temple Mount. Apparently, anyone who opposes this mosque is now being labeled as haters. Let them build a mosque, just not a ground zero. Why cause more emotional hurt to folks. If they want to honor the fallen, do it a way that honors their families as well. This is more like a slap in the face. Thank you so much for your comments.


nifty@50 profile image

nifty@50 6 years ago

I think you hit the nail on the head with this hub! Allowing a mosque at ground zero is the ultimate insult to the victims families and our intelligence!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks nifty@50. That is the way the families of the fallen are looking at it too, as an insult. Thank you for stopping by and commenting.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I think you were too soft, actually. It is a blatant slap, intended to be a public and monumental mocking of America. They (at leat Shiites) OPENLY call America the "Great Satan" and the plan is to dominate the world by 2050. Look it up. While I thought no one claimed 9/11, they surely did take credit for it.

Muslims won't even let non-Muslims enter Mecca, let alone let Jews pray at their holy place...but we are supposed to do unto them as they've NOT done unto others? What's the deal? This IS WHAT IT IS, a well-calculated jihad agenda. SAY NO, AMERICA!!!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi JD, nice to see you here. I may have been soft but I'm glad we both agree that it is an insult. I started off with a lot of tangents that I removed about foot-baths in American airports and a woman getting fired for eating a BLT on the job in Florida. But I didn't want to argue the religion here. I just tried to concentrate on the inappropriateness of the mosque. Thank you so much for your comments. Many more people feel as you do.


bayoulady profile image

bayoulady 6 years ago from Northern Louisiana,USA

I was not aware of these plans. It's outrageous. I'm so tired of trying to be politically correct about 911! It will not help relations. It will be utterly offensive and hurtful to those familieswho lost a loved one there, and THEY know it.


noorin profile image

noorin 6 years ago from Canada

Joni Douglas, very interesting hub. Thought I would add a muslim comment to this article. =) You would think that I will play devils advocate but I personally disagree with having a mosque in that particular place. It seems like it will raise more resentment than anything else, thus building it any where else should just do.

I also think that deciding what to build on it, should be completely left to the families who have lost their loved ones in that horrific day.

I didn't know what were the Imam's intentions so I dug a bit further. I read his full bio. I dn't mean to be biased at all but from what I have seen in his links and his interviews, I doubt that his intentions are to hurt those families, if anything hes probably trying to transform how Americans interpret Muslims or Islam, and perhaps building a mosque isn't the best path !!!

On the other hand, clicking on the SIOA link showed me that something is indeed wrong with how certain individuals view Islam. Though I respect their cause and I totally respect their resentment against having a mosque build on ground zero, I didn't get the hatred comments ppl added on their blog.

The comments were along the following lines: Muslims are devils because they have oil, GIVE US A BREAK !!! Women are treated like slaves -I am a muslim woman and if it wasn't for my religion, I would have been a slave- ....the list goes on about what a devilish, retarded cult that supports Nazism -if anything I am obligated to respect the Toraah as well as their prophet and beliefs- It was also surprising how victimized they feel about invading Iraq, somehow its Iraq's fault 4 NOT having real nuclear bombs. One of the lines read : "We dropped the atomic bomb on the wrong people in WWII " and somehow muslims are the terrors.

May we all reach genuine peace one day. Thought I would share this video with them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXh20OuhIc but then realized tht its much safer to just put in ere. I really hope this conflict gets resolved without raising the current hatred.

Regardless, thanks for an informative provocative hub. Landing on ur page is always insightful and eye opening.

Noorin


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

bayoulady, Thanks for stopping by. Sure glad you did, the more people who know about this and oppose it, the better. We sure have the right to ask the questions about it. In New York City, most of the residents are against building the mosque there, yet the city leaders supports the idea. Why? It has to be money. For Shame!!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks Noorin, I appreciate your perspective on this. I have no idea what his intentions are either and since I now have trouble believing half of what our own government tells us, I surely question his words.

Plain old common sense just says this spot is not the ideal spot. And when the majority of people in this country agree, but the leaders still do otherwise, it certainly is time for questions. Why this spot? What is the true motive for being at ground zero? Again common sense dictates that the resentment and anger over the building a mosque on that site would not be beneficial to anyone.

Thank you for taking the time to comment here.


dahoglund profile image

dahoglund 6 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

If we have a Mosque could we have a Synagogue and a Cathedral, a Mormon Temple, etc. at the same location?


robie2 profile image

robie2 6 years ago from Central New Jersey

I heard the developer interviewed on TV yesterday-- according to him this is not a mosque per se but a community center which includes a small mosque and which will serve the entire population of the area. I suspect it is a Muslim outreach project,and well meant, but like most of the posters here, I am not sure it is such a good idea, for starters beacuse of the anti-Muslim feelings it brings out. Perhaps it is best to llet sleeping dogs lie.

That said, let's not forget that


sheila b. profile image

sheila b. 6 years ago

You wrote this beautifully. And I am of the mind that this is their way of claiming victory. Their intention is to 'conquer' America. And look how quickly they're setting about doing it, with our politicians help.


TinaMarieTad profile image

TinaMarieTad 6 years ago from Michigan

Joni~ Great Hub! I am saddened by Muslims wanting to have a community center/mosque at ground zero. My reasons for feeling there should not be a mosque at ground zero have nothing to do with religion, nor do they have to do with "normal" Muslims. I see the "radical Muslims" that planned and plotted the 9-11 attack as using this mosque to celebrate, and honor their martyrs and as a slap to the loved ones of the people who lost their lives on 9-11 to "radical Islam" and their agenda. This mosque would be a blatant disrespect and would dishonor the Americans that suffered loss on 9-11 and that is how "radical Muslims" would like it to be. It is also sad that all Muslims suffer because of the reputation of the "radical Muslims" who want to obliterate America.


Rod Marsden profile image

Rod Marsden 6 years ago from Wollongong, NSW, Australia

It is a tricky issue. It should be remembered that not all Muslims are bad and that there were Muslims that lost their lives during 9-11 because they were working in the twin towers at the time and had no idea they were going to die.

I agree with robie2 that the project is probably well meant but ultimately a really bad idea.

I think the Jewish idea of planting a tree in memory of those who died and to wish them well in the afterlife is a much better idea. A tree lives and therefore is a symbol of life and also of renewal. If Muslims want to do something to commemorate all the lives lost a tree to me seems the way to go. No one conquers anyone by planting a tree and it wouldn't be used to celebrate any so-called victory because it won't discriminate. It will give shade to anyone and everyone. Sounds to me like it would be a very New York style compromise.

dahoglund suggests that if there is a mosque there should also be a synagogue, a Cathedral and a Mormon temple. Well, I reckon four trees plus whatever non-religious buildings you want there would be a good idea. The trees could have plaques near them saying what they represent or we could just take it that they simply represent the people who died and the people who care and leave it at that. Best maybe to go without the plaques. My thoughts at any rate.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome dahoglund, good to see you here. Love your comment. Thanks!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi robie2. While I understand their wish to build a mosque, a healing center or what ever they want to call it and use it for, IT just shouldn't be at that spot. They are hurting people by their insistence on it. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Nice to see you sheila. I tend to think that is all part of a scheme to plant their religious fervor here in in the states. While we are being asked to accept diversity and the religion of Islam, no one seems to be urging them to accept our way of life, our sensitivities. It comes across as hurtful that they would insist upon that spot, regardless of their intentions.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi Tina, thanks for stopping by and leaving such a great comment. I agree, I think that not so moderate Muslims will view this as a triumph. As I stated, if their intent is to honor the fallen, they should honor the requests of the families of those fallen.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello Rod Marsden. I like the idea of the trees too. Even being told that they would be insulting the families of the fallen, they insist upon that spot. That is what makes me think that there is more to this than just good will toward the fallen. Thank you for your comments, I appreciate it very much.


suny51 profile image

suny51 6 years ago

Hi Joni Douglas,

I think this is one of the best articles I have read on hub pages,perhaps you may not be knowing that we are full of them (the buildings in question)and even have to protect them which are built on our holy places,what a shame! And our vote hungry so called leaders!!!!!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

That is high praise indeed sunny51. Thank you for such a grand compliment. I do know that where you are, you are full of mosques. We are getting more and more all the time. While my beliefs may differ, I wouldn't deny them a place of worship, it just shouldn't be at the site of the attack.


garynew profile image

garynew 6 years ago from Dallas, TX and Sampran, Thailand

They would be "honoring" their "victory" over the "great Satan". Any other explanation is propaganda and/or PR.


noorin profile image

noorin 6 years ago from Canada

Joni, thanks for getting back to me. I don't think that the mosque will be built though. I really doubt it...


noorin profile image

noorin 6 years ago from Canada

Joni, thanks for getting back to me. I totally agree with everything u said. I don't think that the mosque will be built though. I really doubt it...


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Gary, I think that is what most people think right off the bat. Their words stating otherwise are not convincing in light of all of the other things going on. Thanks for saying it so precisely.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I hope you are right noorin. The good will that changing the location would bring would go far to ease tensions. Their insistence is troubling for many who see this as some sort of a victory shrine like Gary states.


SomewayOuttaHere profile image

SomewayOuttaHere 6 years ago from TheGreatGigInTheSky

i don't see building any faith based structure in that spot is inclusive of all people...all kinds of people were impacted. something that just reflects people, a community and not anything to do with faith - something that inspires happiness to celebrate those lives that were lost...something positive for all to share and truly understand the meaning of whatever is built or displayed...something that brings people together...not to forget...but to evolve that particular site into something respectful of everyone....that would be hard to decide actually...it's hard to please everyone.


tom hellert profile image

tom hellert 6 years ago from home

Time to put a Dennys in the Dome of the rock with 24/7 bacon specials....

Spineless barry.. what a dope


Deaconess profile image

Deaconess 6 years ago

I agree that the mosque shouldn't be put there, but not for the same reasons as most of you do... it shouldn't be there, not because it disrespects America, but rather because *it* would be disrespected... by a lot of people who consider muslims and muslim terrorists as one and the same. It's like holding all christians accountable for what the westboro baptist church does... it's just wrong.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

SomewayOuttaHere, Thank you so much for your comment. It is impossible to please everyone, you're so right. Truthfully, I think it is a shame that it has been almost 10 years and nothing is built there yet.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi Tom, nice to see you here. lol. I don't think you'd have any backers for that kind of operation. Did you hear the story about the woman who got fired for eating a BLT at work in Florida? The place was partially owned by Muslims.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Deaconess thank you so much for pointing out a new perspective on this. A mosque at ground zero would likely be viewed as contemptible by more than half of the population of this country. Not a good neighbor policy. Despite what the media tells us, I do believe that most Americans are able to distinguish the fact that there are extremists and moderates in almost every group or religion, and can hold some Muslims accountable while still accepting others.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.


davidisaiah profile image

davidisaiah 6 years ago from Klamath Falls, Oregon

It has been interesting to read all these comments on this issue. I do not think building a mosque at ground zero is appropriate. Nor do I think a synagogue, ashram, or church should be built at ground zero. An ecumenical, an interdenominational sanctuary, a place of quite, reflection and peaceful prayer would be. The loss of life was horrific, the terror and fear generated incredible. I believe that a place to allow love and reconciliation is needed as part of healing. It was a World Trade Center that was destroyed. People globally need a spirit of love and connection if we are to survive.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Wise thoughts davidisaiah. You're right, what ever kind of memorial gets built there, it needs to encompass everyone.

While attempting to be respectful of their religious beliefs, I do think they need to be more understanding of ours too.

Do they not understand the insult? Or do they not care that it is an insult? That is the question isn't it?

Thank you very much for stopping by and for your great comment.


Bluemountainify 6 years ago

If mosque made in that place then that will be the winning of Terrorist who attacked in 9/11.Muslims get money from many places to made this to honor attackers of that day not to honor the Victms.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Bluemountainify, thank you for your comments. I think that what you describe is the way that most Americans feel about it.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington

Building a mosque in that area might be the begining of Christian terrorism. Don't be surprised if you see a big RPG getting hurled into that place.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello Onusonus. I sure hope not. While I do see the mosque as a catalysts of sorts, I would hate to think that Christians would start blowing stuff up there. There is an ill wind blowing though isn't there?


akirchner profile image

akirchner 6 years ago from Central Oregon

Of all the places in the world to build it, why there? That seems like a no-brainer to me and it should be built somewhere else. Thank you for bringing this story to our attention!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

You're welcome akirchner. Thank you for stopping by and adding your opinion to the mix here.


KFlippin profile image

KFlippin 6 years ago from Amazon

Excellent hub, you've well presented America's case for not allowing the mosque to be built, and it is interesting the point you well make about conquerors usurping the conquereds places of honor or specialness.

And the notion of 'sensitivity' and 'tolerance' to all, never seems to apply to mainstream Americans anymore.

If this were just about any other country, the land would be condemned under eminent domain, or something comparable, if necessary, and the discussion ended quickly.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello and welcome KFlippin. Thank you for your comments. You're so right. I tend to think that there is money or pay offs or something in it somewhere.

As I said in the forum on this subject, they have the right to build it there, but do they have the compassion NOT to?


John B Badd profile image

John B Badd 6 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

Joni I have friends who are Muslim and I consider myself to be a very open minded and tolerant person, but we can not allow a Mosque to be built at ground zero. They are throwing around freedom of religion and equal rights twisted with a pseudo political correct agenda in order to push this thing through. But the fact of the matter is it will more likely be viewed by Muslim extremist as a monument to their victory over the infidel than a monument to the fallen men and women in the tower.

If a group of Christians flew a plane into the Abraj Al Bait Towers in Mecca, Saudi Arabia do you think the Saudi government would let them build a Christian church their to honor the fallen? No they would not and the very idea is completely rediculous. I can no believe they are even considering this, I would damn near consider it another act of war.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Wow, it took my whole hub to say what you just said in comments. Thank you for your saying so. How it is perceived is important as well. I checked the stats on New Yorkers, there isn't a single demographic group of people that are for this. And you are right, if it was visa/versa thing, they would be outraged at the idea. They would consider it ludicrous to even think about. Glad you stopped by.


drpastorcarlotta profile image

drpastorcarlotta 6 years ago from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC

I agree with Judahs Daughter! SAY NO AMERICA!!!!!!!! GREAT HUB!!!!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

drpastorcarlotta, thank you for stopping by. I agree with her too. Many of the moderate Muslims in this country have weighed in against the mosque being built there. The leaders of these Muslims come right out and said that building at ground zero is just too provocative. Since this is to be a healing place and a place of peace, it is in their best interest to build elsewhere.


Brenda Durham 6 years ago

Hi Joni.

You mentioned the money aspect as a possible reason for the agenda to build the mosque.

Indeed! The old saying about following "the money trail" is spot-on. The Word says the love of money is where evil takes root.

Good hub. Thank you. I rated it UP too.


Joezap profile image

Joezap 6 years ago from Washington rainy coast

Thank you for this Hub. Somewhere and everywhere folks should be expressing our contempt for such an loathsome scheme!

It should be totally self-evident that it’s an outrageous idea to put a Mosque at Ground Zero.

It’s an monstrous insult and I am offended.

I wish there was some way to express the atrocity of it!

Like “@$#%&*%%$@@@!”


Springboard profile image

Springboard 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Ever since the first day I heard about this, I thought to myself, "If we build the mosque. If we ACTUALLY build the mosque, it is the signal of the end of an era. America will be lost."

It seems a bit over the top to suggest that America would cease to exist in the way it once did if such a thing were done. But you have to wonder what country would allow any homage to the people who attacked it and killed its citzens? What AMERICAN would stand for it? What American president would be silent about it?


Michael Adams1959 profile image

Michael Adams1959 6 years ago from Wherever God leads us.

Rated it up, great hub, I too fell like Judahs daughter, we are too soft on the islamic rebel groups, anything that has islam to it is of satan as far as I am concerned. their own words tell of the evil they practice. I can't believe people want to keep Mexicans out but give in to the terrorist muslims


Daniel J. Neumann profile image

Daniel J. Neumann 6 years ago from Harrisburg, Pa

We have religious freedom in this country. Let them build a mosque. You can build a church right next to it, if you want.


Brenda Durham 6 years ago

Daniel we're right back to the old argument about the USA being founded on CHRISTIAN principles, which it was. Therefore we have religious freedom to say it's just plain wrong for an anti-Christian group to push their agenda, especially at Ground Zero.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

This article is contradictory.

America has religious freedom, right?

This is the reason why YOU and many other religious live there. And this is the reason why all religions from all the lands flock to America. American policy encourages the religiously persecuted to make a home in America.

So what is the issue?

Why prevent a Mosque from being built into the White House so Obama and his family can worship in peace?

Why prevent a Mosque from being built beside the tomb of the unknown soldier?

Why prevent a Mosque from being built on every single corner of every single street in America?

This is what ALL Americans want....religious freedom! This is why they all emigrated to America.

You can't harp on Muslims, and then do the Christian Lord's Prayer before you bomb Iraq. That's equivalent to doggy poop.

If Religion is your problem, then Americans should unite to abolish ALL religion from the public sector. That is the only solution.

Religious worship, like sex, belongs in the privacy of your own home.

You can't have it both ways. This is why you have conflict.

Islam is the fastest growing religion. Even George W. Bush read the Koran and found it inspiring. Don't be surprised if your children or grandchildren become Muslims. You can thank your support of American policy for that.


Springboard profile image

Springboard 6 years ago from Wisconsin

Fatfist. With all due respect, it has NOTHING at all to do with the religious aspect of it. It is about having a shrine built that is representative of the very enemy who attacked us. Radical Islam was at the core of the 9/11 attacks and the mosque being built is representative of that. Is there an American monument in Hiroshima?


AKA Winston 6 years ago

(It is about having a shrine built that is representative of the very enemy who attacked us. Radical Islam was at the core of the 9/11 attacks and the mosque being built is representative of that)

Islam did not attack - 19 guys, mostly from Saudi Arabia with a political agenda, did.

Unfortunately, your article diplays the same simpleminded fallacy that led Bush to invade Iraq - you are either with us or with the terrorists. That was a false dilemma, a fallacy of logic. This problem of terrorism is not so simple as to be reduced to good/bad, black/white idealism.

Yes, these men who attacked were Muslims. But their agenda, their reason, was and is a political one. This is not a war to convert American to Islam - it is a conflict to rid Islamic lands of American influences.

Is the Muslim mosque only for the radical muslim? If so, how can we allow St Patrick's Cathedral to stand in downtown Manhattan when it stands for victory of the IRA and the Spanish Inquisition? Should we tear down all reminders of the Salem Witch trials while we are at it?

I am not particularly in favor of the mosque at the site of the twin towers, either, because I think it is too controversial to be worthwhile, but the best solution is to nationalize and thus secularize the land and thus make it off limits to ANY religion.

To continue to polarize with hate speech of good guys/bad guys will never lead to any real solution.


carolina muscle profile image

carolina muscle 6 years ago from Charlotte, North Carolina

Blech.. I dont like the idea at all.. at best it's bad taste- at worst, a point that polarizes more discord and hatred.


Kaie Arwen profile image

Kaie Arwen 6 years ago

I emphatically vote a loud, resounding "NO!" Kaie


D.A.L. profile image

D.A.L. 6 years ago from Lancashire north west England

Hi,joni,I agree with every word and sentiment in your hub. I also agree with Kaie Arwen's above comment.


dawnM profile image

dawnM 6 years ago from THOUSAND OAKS

you go girl and tell them like it is great hub, keep up the fight!!!!!


XxMr.TripsxX profile image

XxMr.TripsxX 6 years ago from Columbus, Ohio

ok im totally against the idea of a mosque right next to ground zero. But the fact is it's several blocks away. knowing this makes me not really care. but i think if everyone knows this and is still angry then they just shouldnt do it


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you all for your great comments. I was away for a few days and not able to respond until now.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Brenda, you point is well taken, the money is questionable and not many are doing any questioning. Thanks for stopping back and for the vote up. Much appreciated.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Joezap, that is precisely how so very many people feel about it, especially New Yorkers. Let them build it anywhere else, just not there where so many American lives were lost.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Springboard ~ I agree. Our leaders seem to be all for the idea regardless of the opinions of the people ~ again. That is one reason why I feel there is money involved.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Michael Adams1959 ~ I say the same thing to you as I did to Springboard. I am amazed that so many in leadership roles are not against this proposal considering that so many people are. They are not representing US. So I say again, I believe there is some big money exchanging hands.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Daniel J. Neumann ~ Perhaps this idea doesn't bother you at all, but have you no feeling the families of those who did lose someone during the 9/11 massacre? This isn't about allowing the Muslims a place of worship. They already have dozens of them nearby. It is about the ground zero location. What don't you get about that?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

fatfist ~ Did you even read the article? It isn't about religious freedom. They already have dozens of mosques in New York. No one is trying to tell them they can't have another mosque. The people are asking the muslims for some consideration to not build on the site at ground zero. BTW, How do you Obama doesn't have a little mosque tucked away in at the White House? No one cares that he is a muslim, we only care if he lied.

Now if you want to comment on the topic of this hub, a mosque at ground zero, please do. But stay with the topic at hand, and do not rant about your religious views, thanks.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

AKA Winston ~ I will ask you the same question, did you read the entire article? I do not have a problem with them building another mosque. And my mentality is fine thank you. How you can slam Christianity and Pres Bush and anyone who disagrees with this location in one such sweeping comment shows how out of touch you really are.

I am asking this for the families of the fallen who protest this mosque with everything they hold dear. I am asking that the muslims, in consideration of the feelings of the families of the fallen, to build it somewhere else. If they build on this site, the controversies surrounding it will far outweigh any good feelings that the mosque hopes to engender.

They claim to want to honor the fallen but then act is such discord to the families of the fallen, one has to question going forward with the mosque at this location.

My hub had no hate in it at all. I understand the sensitive nature of it all and kindly ask that they, just this once, give our families some consideration.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Exactly carolina muscle. It will never be a place of peace and honor given the amount of protests over their choice of location.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks Kaie Arwen. Glad you stopped by. Thanks for your vote.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

D.A.L. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. It feels good to have others agree with me.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks dawnM. I sure appreciate the support. Glad you stopped by.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

XxMr.TripsxX ~ Thanks for stopping by. Yes, the building is 2 city blocks away but it is still a building that was severely damaged by the 9/11 attack. It is listed amongst the casualties of that attack, so it isn't like the building doesn't matter. It was part of the whole thing. And people care, the families of the fallen are very outspoken about it. Not because they don't want another mosque in the city, but because they don't want a mosque there, at that location. Why is what they want not worth our consideration?


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Joni,

(The people are asking the muslims for some consideration to not build on the site at ground zero.)

Muslims? What does being a Muslim have to do with anything?

America is a land for all.....Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Christian, Catholic, rapist, mass murderer.....right? If not, please reference specific laws outlining the extradition of any such group.

While you're at it, please reference a law stating Muslims are prohibited to build their mosques.

And "consideration" for what? You didn't explain.

This hub and the comments you are posting are exhibiting nothing but racial & religious discrimination and hatred against Muslims!

All that stands out in your hub is the word "Muslim" and hatred against this group.

Why don't you just be honest, Joni....if you don't like this group of people, just say so. You are entitled to your opinion, likes & dislikes. But you are not entitled to hate speech.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

fatfist ~ Your comments once again prove that you did not even read the article.

You ask, "What does Muslims have to do with it?" Excuse me, they are the folks wanting to build the mosque. If you had read the article you would have known that.

No one but you mentioned extradition. I have no idea what you are referring to there.

No one, not even me, mentioned anything about prohibiting Muslims from building a mosque.

The 'consideration' I have mentioned was detailed in the hub, that you obviously didn't read.

There is no hatred in this hub. Only in your imagination. I have nothing against Muslims. They are free to worship anyway they choose. This is America - we honor that right.

You make claims but do not present any facts. You can call me racist and a bigot but that doesn't make it so. I am entitled to my thoughts as you are. I don't feel it is out of place or bigoted to request that they move their proposed mosque to a different location out of consideration for the families of the fallen or to acknowledge that the location of a ground zero mosque may cause even more discord between people.


AKA Winston 6 years ago

Joni

You wrote, (The Muslims want to build a mosque), without specifying which particular Muslims and then referred to radical Islam. This is like saying the Protestants want to build a church and then writing about how the Protestants led by David Koresh and the Branch Dividians went down in flames at Mount Carmel.

I appreciate and understand the deep-seated feelings about the events of 9-11, but the quicker America learns that this type of terrorism is not a religios war, is not about world Islamic domination, the better off we will be.

Terrorism is a tactic. It has been used throughout history by the smaller, less weaponed side. The Jews used it before Israel was established, and Nazi resistance groups used terrorism against the Reich.

It is a complex world that does not lend itself to the oversimplified false dilemma dichotomy.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Winston, I do refer to Muslims, they are the ones planning this. I do not reference radical Islam at all. You are slanting my words to suit your argument.

IN such a complex world that does not lend itself to oversimplified false dilemma dichotomy, you should be sure to actually read ALL of the words and take them for what they say and not try to read ugliness into them.


AKA Winston 6 years ago

Joni,

You picked the quotes to use.

"The Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is behind the proposed mosque near Ground Zero and he is a prominent member of a group called Perdana Global Peace Organization that helps sponsor pro-Palestinian activists."

No doubt this description of "that helps sponsor pro-Palestinian activists" was not meant to paint a particular image of radical Islamics.


AKA Winston 6 years ago

Joni,

(The Muslims want to build a mosque, The Cordoba House, at ground zero and they hoped to open it on the anniversary of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center.)

This is flat wrong. The Muslims do not want to build a mosque but a Muslim Center, and the proposal is to build it 4 blocks away from the site of the twin towers, at a location where a mosque already exists.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

No Winston. Not everything that is pro Palestinian is radical Islam. DO NOT put words in my mouth. The anniversary date is their idea, worded as such from them. The building is not 4 blocks away, it is 2 blocks away as I have stated. It is the old Burlington Coat Factory building and is listed as one of the building that was severely damaged in the 9/11 attack.

Yes, the Muslims have already started to gather to worship there, but they have not started to build their mosque as of yet. If you don't like the mosque terminology, I can't help you. That is what it is called, in Washington, in New York and in the news. Complain somewhere else.

Listen Winston... If you want to spread your version or your vision, write your own hub about it. Keep your innuendo off of mine.


AKA Winston 6 years ago

Joni,

No problem. Just thought you might like to be accurate.


ACSutliff profile image

ACSutliff 6 years ago

Joni,

I can't believe the news crews didn't cover this protest! What were they doing instead?

This sure is a controversial subject, and a popular hub! 40 people voted on where they think the mosque should go. Incredible!

As I live nowhere near New York, I don't know anyone who was affected by the tragedy of 9/11. The people who live there and lived through all that are the only ones who have a right to feel one way or another about this issue, in my opinion.

Great hub, well written and full of emotion and passion! Rated up!

~AC


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

ACSutliff, Yes it sure is controversial and I think most would agree that it is a very touchy subject. Reading the comments alone will provide proof of that.

Perhaps you don't know anyone who lost a loved one in 9/11, but that doesn't mean you or the people you know weren't affected. Weren't we all affected by the horror of it? Our country was attacked and thousands of people died. That affects us as a country. While it is the families of the fallen and the citizens of the city whose opinion really matters, we still all have our own thoughts about it, especially since it is the overwhelming majority of those families and citizens whose opinion is being overlooked and overruled by the planners and elected officials.

Thank you for stopping by and for giving us all your perspective on this.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK

Interesting Hub - I'm sure someone has to grant planning permission and I hope they think about it very well. I know a lot of Muslims are peaceful (I have quite afew muslim friends) but the building could be seen as rubbing salt in Wounds.

It should be a place of Memorial. It would only double the pain of those who lost loved ones, if they built it there...

I could go on and on, but this is a bit of a controversial Hub and Hmmm... you never know who's reading. Again, I am not against muslims, but the key here is "Sensitivity".

Its very good that you are making people aware of it. Best Wishes.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Exactly Lady E. Sensitivity is essential. I only ask that it be granted from both sides. Thank you for stopping by and I sure hope that all of my hubs are not this controversial. Thanks for the great comments.


Lady_E profile image

Lady_E 6 years ago from London, UK

Lol Joni - Sometimes we just have to write from the heart. I have quite a few controversial Hubs which I worried about writing, but just couldn't help myself. Once I publish them, I hold my breath while waiting for the comments.

Enjoy writing... :)


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks Lady E. Kind of makes you wonder if it is that the good girl in us that keeps us from wanting to make waves?


belliott profile image

belliott 6 years ago

I agree with davidisaiah in that I do not think they should build a Mosque at Ground Zero nor should there be a church, synagogue or worship facility for any other specific religious view. An area for a memorial tribute to those lives lost and a peaceful place for reflection would be appropriate.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

That would be best as there were those from all religions who perished at that time and at that place. I thank you for your comments belliott.


soumyasrajan 6 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA

Hi! Joni

A hub written in exactly right tone and the same for your responses to comments. You are quite polite but at times when needed you can be quite firm and worst comes to worst when needed can show even the door as you did with Winston. Exactly right attitude.

I am from India and often live in USA also for long periods. USA is almost second home for me. We have suffered in India quite a bit in a similar way on many occasions and so are the problems in several other countries.

I think some months back I had read a similar news in UK actually perhaps even more cruel. There is a tradition there, citizens from the place from which a soldier has died in war organize a procession accompanying the body, expressing their respect and sentiments. This was also being done when a body of any soldier arrived from war in Af-Pak sector. Now some Muslim organization there decided to have their own processions along with a procession of this type, with posters opposing Afghan war and declaring that this soldier was fighting for an inhuman cause etc. They even went to court when they were not allowed, with arguments about freedom of expressions etc. The court rightly decided not to allow them such rights.

I wonder how can people or groups think about such actions like one in UK or what you are talking about. On second thoughts I am not surprised looking at India, where we face this kind of problem very often. We also have much more share of people like Winston who will just go on arguing for no reason and defend all kind of unreasonableness.

I think it is time that it is declared firmly that human rights or rights for freedom of expression or religion etc. are not one way traffic, they should be available to only those who themselves are ready to give similar rights and are ready to follow common decorum and dignity in any place.

I feel demanding or proposing such a mosque or community center itself is a highly undignified behavior- a bit intolerable.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

soumyasrajan, thank you for your great comments. Your perspective being from India is fascinating and unique. I am very glad that you commented here. As for the right attitude? Winston may not agree with you but I certainly feel as though I presented the case and my opinion fairly.

I had heard of the controversy in the UK but had not heard the results of it. Thank you for sharing that.


soumyasrajan 6 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA

Hi! Joni

Just to update, it seems the struggle to not to have this provocation from Muslim organizations who are trying to build a Mosque in or near ground zero site is going to be long and hard.

Even Mayor of NY is with them rather than with majority of citizens of NY. At least his expressed sentiments suggest that. You may also have seen the NY times article (link given below).

Is it some kind of what we call in India vote-bank politics?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/nyregion/31mosqu...

Drama being played seems to be just mirror image of drama we often see in India. In India it is much more raw and people who have reasonable attitudes are much weaker in political and media/press space. But silent majority is part of them. I think the last part must be true in US also.


Sundaymoments profile image

Sundaymoments 6 years ago from United States

I have studied theology for a great number of years; everything that is described in your hub is described accurately. The bible does say that when tragic events happen the enemy will mock us. This is an attempt of mockery. Muslims have a history of always doing things in silent until and once done then they boast and brag of their great accomplishments. This act of building a Mosque is absurd and truly goes against every American value that our soldiers are fighting for presently. In my opinion this truly disgraces the fallen from the fallen of trade centers to the families still grieving over their losses!!~~ GREAT HUB


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

soumyasrajan, Thanks for the link.

We all need to pay attention to what happens at this location. The will of the people is being ignored. We are told that we must always be tolerant yet those asking for tolerance in return are now called bigoted.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome Sundaymoments. Thank you for the compliment. Taken at face value, many might say that it would be a good way to show tolerance and diversity. It is when we know the history behind such moves that we can better understand the drive to put a mosque at this location.

There isn't anyone who dare to suggest to put up a memorial to the good people of Germany at Auschwitz. And for the families, this sentiment is real and should not be ignored.

Thank you for stopping by and adding such great commentary.


MayG profile image

MayG 6 years ago from Melbourne, Australia

Wow Joni, what a controversial hub you have written here. I had not heard of this plan to build a mosque, or Muslim community centre near Ground Zero. I am shocked that any Muslim would request such a thing. I know that the terrorists were radical Islamists and that most Muslims are as peace-loving as most Christians are, but surely it is obviously inappropriate. Yes, we need to be sensitive to other religions and ways of life, but these other religions also need to be sensitive in return and any Muslim should understand why this idea would upset many. September 11 was not just an attack on the United States, but an attack on the way of life of many western countries. I like the idea of a non-secular memorial, and I loved Rod Marsden's comment that trees could be planted with a plaque. This seems like a lovely non-confrontational way to honour those victims from many different religions and countries that died on Sept 11.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Controversial is certainly the word for it. I've heard from both sides now...lol. The fact that they insist on using this site makes me think that their motives are not just to pass along good cheer. They can easily do that from a few blocks away. The angst that building at this location causes, will preclude any good feelings that they hope to express.

I sure thank you for stopping by and leaving such a well thought out response.


MayG profile image

MayG 6 years ago from Melbourne, Australia

Thanks Joni, I admire your courage - it takes guts to write the way you do.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you May. When I wrote it I didn't not consider that courage would be needed, but I certainly concede the point now. I appreciate the comment.


MayG profile image

MayG 6 years ago from Melbourne, Australia

Hey Joni, I thought you might be interested to know this. On ninemsn.com.au (which is an Australian news website), they have a daily survey where people can vote. The question for today is 'Should there be a mosque built near Ground Zero?'. The results so far, at 4:09pm - Yes- a mere 7,740, compared to No -55,517.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I am interested. Thank you May. I am not really surprised though. Overwhelmingly people agree that they have the right to build the mosque, but should do so in another place and not at ground zero. Thanks for thinking of this hub as you read that info.


Wayne Brown profile image

Wayne Brown 6 years ago from Texas

This issue has been portrayed at every angle. I still think it comes down to a zoning issue that the City of New York is unwilling to push through. The area around ground zero should be zoned so tightly that things such as this cannot occur. While there is no sensitivity from the Muslim community, there is no healing toward the Muslim community on our side and this just becomes an extension of it. The real culprits in terms of the disrespect of those who died on 9/11 are Bloomberg and his staff. A Muslim Mosque at ground zero is a laughable thought and must make America look pretty stupid in the eyes of the world. WB


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hi Wayne. I sure would like to know the real reason behind Bloomberg's support. As I stated, my guess is money. The real question remains as to why this exact location? Why does this spot mean so much to them, why it does to America is obvious but why to them?

What do they gain by the mosque being at this location that they don't have a few blocks away? So far, I don't like any of the answers to that question.


American Tiger 6 years ago

JONI! I may now count myself among the fortunate souls who get to follow your Hubbery (NOT to be confused with Hubris). Your down-home charm and wry wit remind of yet another Hot Conservative Fem (may she run come 2012!), and I am hopelessly enamored.

As I read through the Pro-Mosque posts (which always and only say how insensitive, mean and stupid you and I must obviously be), I'm struck that none of those hubbers live in NY City. Nor do they propose that Islam erect a Christian Church two blocks from the Dome of the Rock.

Keep On Hubbin'!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Why thank you American Tiger! I'll certainly accept that fine compliment.

They may think we are the stupid ones but rewording the chosen talking points doesn't show intelligence to me or thankfully to you and many others.

Thank you so much for stopping by and reading and I certainly appreciate the comments.


jason 6 years ago

Joni,

I do feel exactly the same, as I truly think almost anyone with any sensitivity would. The Muslims should back down from this idea. However, it is not the governments place to deny a religious group equal opportunity; so although they may express support, indifference or opposition they really shouldn't be allowed to block this proposal. Other than appealing to the sensitivity of the Muslim leaders (they clearly have none), how would you propose it should be handled? As much as I'd love to block this outrageous atrocity, it's a delicate issue to lose ground on our American values, even if it is to the benefit of a vast majority. I mean our courts rule in favor of Fred Phelps' hate banter (I'm sure 99% of Americans oppose Phelps) so we remain unbiased and fair...


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome Jason. Since the zoning board and planning commission already ruled in their favor, legally I suppose there isn't much that can be done. But the planning commission should never had agreed to this without the will of the people. And what is the deal with Bloomberg? Can he not see that this would cause even more division amongst the citizens of New York?

If this is all being done in the name of staying politically correct, I think we have taken this to the opposite extreme. We are a country ruled by the will of the people and time and time again that will gets overturned by a single entity or a board of a handful of folks. That is one reason that so many are fed up with our politicians giving rise to slogans such as, 'Take our Country Back!'

Our politicians should go to the Iman, the Muslims proposing this, and publicly and clearly state that the will of the people is important enough that they should consider another location for their mosque. If the intent of the Iman is good faith toward the American people, he will show an incredible amount of bad faith in going forward at this location.


RunAbstract profile image

RunAbstract 6 years ago from USA

I didn't even know this was under consideration! (Why haven't I seen more about this in mainstream media)? And I certainly won't understand if it happens.

Thank you for this very important information.


Storytellersrus profile image

Storytellersrus 6 years ago from Stepping past clutter

Joni, I didn't read all the comments so I don't know if someone pointed out that this is not a mosque nor is it at Ground Zero. You might reference this article for more information...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how...

I heard an excellent interview on NPR last week where the commentator made the point that you stated in the end- that if it causes pain the sensitive thing to do would be to put the prayer room elsewhere. I think that is a good point. Why cause more pain?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello RunAbstract, I do not know why it hasn't made more news. I do not think construction has started yet. The story has been on Fox for more than 3 weeks now. I sure thank you for stopping by and asking about it.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Storytellersrus, thanks for stopping by. Calling it simply a prayer room is quite a misnomer. Their plans are very grandiose, a community room, a health spa and other such rooms but most definitely a mosque.

And it was pointed out in comments that the building is within 2 blocks of the exact ground zero location but it is also one of the buildings that was included in the list of damaged buildings from that dreadful day.

So not to belabor any of that, the correct thing to do would be to build their mosque at a location that will not cause the anger and resentment that building it in this particular spot will cause. It is my thinking that their house of peace will not achieve that directive at this location.

Thanks Storytellersrus for making sure the facts are straight. I am glad you stopped and welcome your comments.


sarmack profile image

sarmack 6 years ago from Washington

This is a concern to me. It is as though they want to claim victory over those attacks. Which would, as others have stated, be a victory in their minds over the United States.

Vladamir's comment was excellent.

It hasn't made more news, because, politically speaking, it would cause a rift between religions. And, you are right, they would NEVER let Christianity build a Temple there.


ThePeeDeeWildcat 6 years ago from Just Across The State Line

You bring up many pertinent points and questions in your Hub. Many of them have crossed my mind, too. For example, how much difficulty would Mayor Bloomberg and the other authorities in New York have in denying, say, a Southern Baptist or a Pentacostal or some other evangelical congregation from building a church at Ground Zero? Mayor Bloomberg, et al., would laugh in their faces derisively! There is a great deal of political correctness involved here. I don't know if President Obama's Islamic heritage has any sway here. That would probably be far-fetched, but who knows? I, too, can be cynical. Follow the money trail?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

sarmack, thank you for stopping by and for adding your thoughts here.

One can't help but wonder about their intentions. I say again, if their intentions are merely for fellowship and goodwill for Americans then it seems that they would gladly move their mosque to a location that did not engender such protest.

Since they refuse such a request, it is left up to us to ponder their motives.

Thanks again.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

ThePeeDeeWildcat, welcome and thank you for your comments. It is the cynic in me that believes there is money involved here. When officials turn their backs on the will of the people there usually is.

Many of the moderate Muslims in America and even Canada are speaking out against the mosque being built at the ground zero location. Yet plans keep going forward.


 6 years ago

And now Obama supported the mosque! Actually that was expected. But I was surprised by Bloomberg, who could stop this idiotic project right from the beginning, and for some reason he didn't. I was among protestors against this mosque in June. We didn't stop this project, but we did attract people and media attention to it. Even with all protests and media coverage, I don't think we can stop this non-sense. Obama does anything he wants.............


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Let's hope you are wrong. There are many obstacles to overcome in order for this to be built. And they haven't even seen stubborn yet.

My main statement is that they have the right to build it, but do they have the compassion NOT to.

This will never be the place of good will they say they intend it for. It will always be a contentious place, therefore, it doesn't fit the aim of their intent any way that one looks at it.

All of the rhetoric in the world by Obama or Bloomberg or any of the others, will not change the view of the people whose lives were affected by 9/11.

Thanks for stopping by and adding your insight to this. I presume you mean the protest that I mentioned above? Cool. Would have joined you had I the means to be there.


Wanderlust profile image

Wanderlust 6 years ago from New York City

Yes, I meant the protest you mentioned above. And I thought that 9/11 affected all Americans, not only people whose relatives died on 9/11. But apparently it didn't affect Obama or Bloomberg or others who support this monument to Islamic terrorists!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I thought it affected everyone in America too, Wanderlust. Kudos for your being there to protest this.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 6 years ago from Texas, USA

Well put together hub with good points. Thanks for writing it on this. I agree "This mosque will become one of Islam's holiest shrines as it sits upon the site of their greatest modern military victory". I ministered in an Islamic country for 10 years and it makes me sick to think of the Muslim call to prayer going out 5 times a day close enough to ground zero to be heard echoing through the city -- particularly a Mosque being that big.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank Ms Dee for stopping by and adding your thoughts. You made a point that struck me, if they allowed the same religious freedom to Christians in their neck of the woods, would Americans still feel this strongly about the mosque? I don't know...... probably since this isn't a religious freedom issue because we all know that they have the legal right to build it at that location. It is more of a sensitivity issue that they just do not understand.

Americans are constantly being told to be sensitive to other people's faith and to their point of views, but rarely is that sensitivity or that understanding a two-way street. We give and the rest take. We ask for a consideration and we are now called bigots and racist.


Storytellersrus profile image

Storytellersrus 6 years ago from Stepping past clutter

It is a very contentious issue. I think it is up to those most directly affected to make this decision, considering I, for example, only visit NYC a few times a year and do not have the emotional impact of family and friends buried there. It is easy to be open minded when one is not emotionally involved. It is an abstraction for me.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

That is true Storytellersrus. I am sure those who suffered personally have much stronger feelings about this and rightly so.

While I do not consider it an abstraction, I do understand that distance, both emotionally and physically play a role in how one measures this. Thanks for stopping back.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

I think it's necessary to be clear that when we continuously speak of "the fallen" of 9/11 we must also bear in mind the hundreds of muslims killed in the disaster. In all of the anger I have seen and heard in the context of the Cordoba House debate, I have never seen or heard anything about them.

I mention this because references to muslims as "they" and "them" when interchangeably speaking of muslims in general and islamic extremists with no qualifier or differentiation made are irresponsible and inaccurate. This with no reference of muslims actually having also been victims in the same tragedy reinforces the misguided imagery of islam as inherently violent (even if you don't state expressly that you think it's violent) and muslims in general as somehow in collusion with extremists who actually pervert islamic teachings(even if you don't state expressly that you think such).


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I do not deny that there were Muslim victims. I was very careful to not include all Muslims when referring to extremists. Since this article was written about the mosque and not really about the attack or who committed the attack, I fail to see how mentioning the nationality of the victims is relevant.

I also did not list that there were African Americans, Jews, Christians, Europeans or even those of Oriental descent that were victims. Muslims do not need to be highlighted any more than other people as victims here.

There is no intended slight to anyone in the Muslim community, but I truly believe that building the mosque at this is inappropriate.

So far, the authorities aren't even letting a Christian church which was located within the same block at the towers and destroyed in the attack, rebuild at their same location. That church stood for over 50 years, so let's be real about intended insults.


ACSutliff profile image

ACSutliff 6 years ago

Joni,

You are very right to say that we have all been affected by the tragedy of 9-11. Do you know what they decided to do about this?


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

You are right, ACSutliff, we don't have to live in New York or have loved ones who died in 9/11 for this tragedy to affect us.

As for decisions? I do not know. They have the go ahead from the city. So,I believe they continue to make plans for building while trying to raise funds as well.


ACSutliff profile image

ACSutliff 6 years ago

So it's going to go up. How very strange that they would put up a mosque but as you say, they will not let a church rebuild. Cities do some strange things sometimes. Maybe with time, other buildings can be rebuilt. I wish everyone the best with what they decide to do.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I heard on the news last night, 8/19, that the builders are open to negotiating a new location - as long as the money is right. So we'll see.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

The church you referred to wasn't restricted from rebuilding. The Greek Archdiocese and the Port Authority bumped heads due to considerations that the rebuilt church had to be held to for a multitude of reasons. Unlike Cordoba House, St. Nicholas IS to be built (or rebuilt) directly adjacent to the Ground Zero complex, but the preferred site of the church clergy is on another spot near the original land which is owned by Port Authority.

There were specifics that could not be agreed upon in the larger context of security concerns and considerations for adjacent structures and transportation. There was also some dispute regarding funding.

The Port Authority has issued statements publicly that the church is fully within their rights to build on the original site, so this notion that the church isn't being allowed to rebuild is just untrue.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

I also wonder if indeed the Cordoba House were to relocate to another spot further away, how much further it should be? This whole business of how far or near is too far or near is a slippery slope, in my opinion. If Cordoba House were to find a spot which isn't 2 blocks away, but 3 blocks away, would they garner the same criticisms? Would there then be a call for them to relocate to yet another site?

The prevalent sensibilities behind the debate seem to be governed by the concept of Ground Zero being sacred ground, which I know comes from a very real, emotional place. Unfortunately, I see that as a bit flawed on the premise that on this hallowed ground (or at least within the same approximate radius from it as Cordoba House) there are a plethora of strip clubs, porn outlets/peep shows, gambling dens, bars, etc. I'm a bit surprised that they don't also offend the sensibilities of the same masses opposed to Cordoba House or (more importantly) also dishonor the fallen of 9/11.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Hello again BP9, whatever the reasoning behind the failure of the Greek Christian church to rebuild, it just doesn't look good. According to the interview I saw the church is trying to go forward but plans are still being blocked.

As for whatever else is in the neighborhood? I don't know and it doesn't really matter to this situation. We are not comparing any of that here.

Ground zero encompasses more than just the hole left by the twin towers. The buildings in the neighborhood that were damaged in the attack, make them part of ground zero. They have been offered another site just a few blocks away. Now I believe it is a matter of money.

I don't want to argue all of these points with you. The article was written, not about their right to build but about the appropriateness of it being within the ground zero area. If you disagree with the stance I have taken, just say so. Perhaps you should write a hub about your position in this matter.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Joni...

Again...NY Port Authority hasn't blocked the rebuilding of their church at it's original site.

The only reason I saw fit to point to the totality of the scenario is that you connected it to the Cordoba House debate by way of a comparison ("So far, the authorities aren't even letting a Christian church which was located within the same block at the towers and destroyed in the attack, rebuild at their same location.") which was not true. I understand you not wanting to argue, but to state falsehoods with the authority with which one states fact (particularly in an emotionally charged, hotly debated issue such as this) invites and earns retort at the very least.

I agree with you that the appropriateness of the Cordoba House is at issue, but should (as a interfaith community center) be no more inappropriate than pornography, gambling & bars within the same radius of Ground Zero.

I also have taken heed to your cautionary tone in that last comment. It was not my intent to offend or annoy you, but I appreciate HubPages for precisely what I thought we were engaging in: Healthy debate about relevant topics.

While I certainly hope I am welcome to engage on your hub, I will refrain from such if you so request.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Sure debate is always good. I was not offended. I just don't care to argue the same points over and over again.

And as I stated, the interview I saw about the Greek Christian church stated that they were not getting answers from the Port Authority and that talks were stalled. My point was only that it makes the situation appear to be lop-sided in favor of the Muslim mosque. It was only a slight mention in comments and not part of the hub.

You are more than welcome to engage on my hubs. My remark that you write your own hub about it, was not intended to pass you off. You seem to know quite a bit about the whole story and others may benefit from you telling it.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

m9888, your original post was not logical and not very nice. Neither was this one. I am not asking you to agree with me but if you do not have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Or if you need to disagree, do it nicely.


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 6 years ago from USA

Great hub, sadly in the world today, political correctness has killed common sense.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Thing-...


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks spiderpam. Political correctness has taken a left turn, that's for sure. Thanks for stopping by and voted yours up too.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 6 years ago

The main thing that I have learned from all of this is that large numbers of Americans feel a general hostility toward Islam. Whether this hostility is justified or not is a matter of opinion.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 6 years ago

It's also important to keep in mind that Muslim religious sites have often been attacked by other Muslims, and that the most common victims of terrorist attacks are also Muslims. (Just look at what was happening in Iraq when the violence was at its worst.) I doubt that Muslim extremists would even view this Mosque as a legitimate religious shrine.


master9888 profile image

master9888 6 years ago from Singapore

I was disagreeing it very polity and nicely, I event ask you with all due respect. A'rent that nice enough.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome Freeway Flyer. I would have to agree that many who are opposed to the mosque have anti-Muslim sentiment. But not all. In your hubs you mention the need for Americans to once again show compassion and understanding. My whole point was that just this once, is it really too much for Americans to ask for some compassion and understanding in return?

Is compassion something that only America is required to provide?

As for the Muslim world viewing this mosque as a religious shrine> I would disagree. Do you remember the pictures of the Muslim across the Middle East celebrating a victory on 9/12? All of those folks in those videos were not extremists; they were everyday folks.

Thanks for your expressing your thoughts on the matter.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

All those folks in the videos do not represent all of islam. So to speak for "the Muslim world" and how it as a whole would view the mosque, one has more to do than look at images of those "regular folk." It is the actions of those "regular folk" that defines them as extremists. Though they represented a segment, they were but a segment.

One can no more judge the whole of islam by them as one could judge the whole of non-muslims, christians or jews by the hostility the Cordoba House protesters at Ground Zero directed at a man whom they THOUGHT was muslim. He made the mistake of...well...being there and looking too much like a muslim for many in the crowd and they turned on him. The chants got louder and were directed at him. You'll hear on the footage a man shouting "Muhammad is a pig!" (Note: My compliments to the woman in the tape whose voice was heard correcting the man who said it as well.)

He was even "asked" to leave. He could have had an opinion about the issue...and may have even lost someone on 9/11 as well. He may have even been a moderate muslim in support of their opinions. But this didn't matter to those present and emotional. If one were judging the spirit of the protest behind the Cordoba House by the actions of that segment of people there for precisely that purpose, one would get the impression that there was indeed an inherent hostility toward muslims...not just there, but at the heart of the debate.

The sword cuts both ways.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 6 years ago

Unfortunately, the U.S. is not viewed around the world as being a particularly compassionate nation. (At least in the polls that I have heard.) I fear that this episode is not helping our reputation, especially in the Muslim world, and I'm not alone. I just heard a story today in which many analysts expressed the fear that the American response to this situation is playing right into extremists' hands.


Godwin Nwando profile image

Godwin Nwando 6 years ago from San Diego

This mosque should not be such a big deal. This is politics as usual.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Funny Freeway Flyer, I heard a story today that said it would be like a victory prize of sorts for all Muslims to have the mosque built at ground zero. Sort of like crossing the T.

Godwin Nwando, Why shouldn't it? It isn't about politics. But the politicians are making it about that instead of what it really is about. America deserves to have a little consideration over this. After all, no one would dream of putting up a Japanese shrine or holy center at Pearl Harbor and it has been how many years?

This is something that happened to America and we deserve the right to keep this sacred in our hearts.

Despite what comments above said, we all saw the pictures of everyday Muslims the world over, celebrating the destruction of the world trade center.

We lost thousands of lives that day.

Our country was attacked.

So yeah, it is a big deal.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 6 years ago

Military forces of the nation of Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Since you used this analogy, it creates the impression that you hold Muslims in general responsible for the World Trade Center attacks. Much of the Muslim world believes that our country holds them responsible, so it is easy for them to conclude that the U.S. is conducting a war against Islam. Extremists are then happy to feed off of that belief in their recruitment of new members. That seems to be the crux of the issue. That said, I will leave you alone now.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

"I heard a story today that said it would be like a victory prize of sorts for all Muslims to have the mosque built at ground zero"

Joni,

To point to this story you heard as a reliable, valid perspective, the only viable intention on your part would be to suggest that (in your words) "all muslims" would celebrate the Cordoba House to claim some sort of victory having been had on 9/11/01. In doing so, you have indeed lumped all muslims in with extremist and terrorists-in direct contradiction of your having been "very careful to not include all Muslims when referring to extremists" as stated by you above.

If you believe that all muslims celebrate the tragedy of thousands dead on 9/11 (muslims included) you indicate that you may have an ax to grind with islam. This calls your objections to the Cordoba House on the specific grounds of it's "approrpiateness" into question as maybe having been colored by a negative sentiment regarding islam as a whole.

Muslims everywhere (including those places where you have seen the cheers) condemn the 9/11 tragedies and any claim extremists make on islam, Muhammad, the Quran or religion as a whole that they would say justifies them. You are right in what you said above...that Americans are expected to be sensitive to to the religions of others. This means American Christians, American Jews and American Muslims-along with all other belief systems. Muslim organizations, as well as individual muslims here in the US and the world over have condemned all acts of extremism at every turn (including aiding the federal and local governments with rooting out extremist elements here in the US). This unfortunately doesn't merit headline news, cable tv punditry or the current blogospheric fervor like images of muslims in war torn, poverty stricken countries lashing out at what they have had the experience of knowing as post-colonial western exploitation.

If we use this same principle to apply to islam as a whole, then we must do so with christianity as well. Tim McVeigh, Scott Roeder, Robert Rudolph and others who commit crimes while claiming christian scripture justifies them should as well not be called simply criminals, but christian terrorists and christian extremists.

Again...

The sword cuts both ways.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Geesh BP9, Give it a rest.

I was simply showing Freeway Flyer that anyone can hear stories. It doesn't make it true.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

You're right, Joni. It doesn't make it true.

However, when you make mention of this particular story (which may or may not be true) in the same post as your reference to people having seen "the pictures of everyday Muslims the world over, celebrating the destruction of the world trade center," alongside your contention in your original hub pointing to historical eras of islamic expansion, it points to a certain narrative that may not be as accepting of islam as you are perhaps trying to portray it.


andromida profile image

andromida 6 years ago

You've analyzed the entire situation with great neutrality, I have voted that Muslims should not be building Mosque at ground zero.Since the administration is involved in this issue, I think there must be something fishy about this issue and US govt. is well aware of that general public will protest this decision. Thank you so much for writing this hub with great analysis.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you andromida for your comments and your vote. Those who disagree with the opposition continue to claim that the Muslims have the right to build under our law. That is not even the point for Americans, we all recognize they have the right. We question the appropriateness of it. As I said in the article, if their aim is as they claim - to better relations with American citizens, this is surely not going to do it. This will always be a contentious place and will not do anything to further the cause for a better relationship. If they really want a better relationship they need to move the location. That, in itself, will do more toward a better relationship than anything else, by showing that American citizen's feelings matter to them. Oops, sorry got caught up in it again.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Joni,

I'll ask you again: How far away will be good enough?

I mean that question for you personally, as you are adamant in your resistance to the proximity of the proposed site to the Ground Zero complex. In that case, an actual boundary should be determined and recognized on the basis of Ground Zero being hallowed ground as well as a set radius of land that extends beyond it in all directions. I think that this would be fair.

One of the problems with this debate is that most whom have opposed the Cordoba House have unwittingly defined the sacred ground boundary according to where they DON'T want muslims to be in any profound number (a la the whole "victory mosque" argument). This building which sat empty for all that time was not a part of the WTC complex prior to 9/11/01 and outside of the damage having been done to it by plane debris had no real signifigance to anyone until the Cordoba House had been publicized.

I say come to a consensus about what the line is and people will respect the boundary. As it is, the issue of the distance has been a fairly arbitrary and somewhat capricious proposition, as noone seems to be on any agreement about how close is too close. They only know that what they percieve as a "mega mosque" within some ambiguously defined distance is too close.

I say, let's organize our thoughts and agree on a boundary that all can actually respect.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Although this building was not part of the WTC group, the building was listed as one of those damaged in the attack on 9/11.

As for where? I don't live in New York City and do not know the boundaries. I do know that the governor offered them another site just a few blocks away and that sounds reasonable. But you know as well as I do that it isn't up to you or I. The minute that the Muslims leaders putting this together agree that perhaps the feelings of the American people should be considered, another location could and would be found.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

I just hope that another location doesn't spark similar outrage.


Sweetsusieg profile image

Sweetsusieg 6 years ago from Michigan

I think building a Mosque on Ground Zero is a slap in the face to the American people. I think they know this and that is why they are insisting that it be right there. We have become too accommodating, and it's time for us to say enough is enough. You can build it here or here BUT NOT here! Take it or leave it, you know where the door is... 'don't let it hit ya where the good lord split ya'.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

BP9, there would be no reason to. You forget, there are plenty of mosques already in New York City that exist without any protest at all.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Sweetsusieg, I totally agree with you. It is their actions that are suspect to me and by not even considering moving in deference to people's wishes, shows to me, that they are not really interested in bettering relations with non-Muslims at all.


BP9 profile image

BP9 6 years ago from Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Joni:

We'll see. Well meaning patriotism in the current political climate can quickly turn into a xenophobic reflex run amok. It isn't the first muslim venture to be protested and won't be the last.


noturningback 6 years ago

I say non to a mosque, synagogue,church or any bother house of worship at this site.

Truly for those who seek and find God and that is their choice as to where they find Him, having any house of worship at this site would be like only having a Methodist, Lutheran, Buddhist or... house of worship/chapel at a cemetary and expecting ALL ppl. to be in agrement w/those particular doctrines definately not freedom to choose and definately not in the spirit that built this great nation.

Personal agendas and greed must be pushed aside this time.

God bless the fallen and the families of those, whose lives were snatched away from them w/o God's will ever being considered. Apart from God, man can do no good thing!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thank you for your comments, noturningback. With the new controversies surround the Imam, his associations and the funding, more questions will have to be answered before this goes any further.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

I see you have had quite a debate here, Joni. You hit on the central issue early in your article:

"History shows us that conquerors prefer seeking out sacred places or sites that hold great meaning for others, whether they are religious places or not, to erect their own monuments."

The problem is that few Americans know much about history. What history they do know comes down from radical anti-Americans who have been writing our textbooks. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is specifically located there because it was the most sacred spot in the world to Jews and to Christians.

The great Haggia Sofia in Constantinople was the very object of the Muslim conquerers so it could be converted into a mosque to honor the great victory Allah had granted the Muslim army over the Christians.

Thank you for an excellent Hub.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Your first comment is kind of an understatement, :).

The rest of your comment is exactly right. They say - what you don't know, can't hurt you. But sometimes, what we don't know can really come back and bite us.

Although this type of targeted building has been done by many conquerors throughout history, the targeted mosque locations are particularly noteworthy. As I researched this angle I was almost shocked by the effort put into the exact locations for these mosques all around the world. Personally, I am convinced that it is all about - location, location, location.

Thanks James, for your insightful comments.


ponx profile image

ponx 6 years ago from USA

I don't think that they should build the mosque near ground zero. This is not just an issue of building the mosque or not, rather this is playing with the sentiments of all the people who did lose some near and dear one in the Sept 11th tragedy. This almost seems like we are mocking what happened on that tragic day.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Welcome ponx, I think you hit the nail right on the head. It is the sentiment and symbolism that really matter here. Thanks for stopping by.


jdb 6 years ago

First of all this is not a Mosque it is a community center with a prayer room. So this Mosque thing is something that has been taken way out of porportion. Second the Moslem people did not plan this attack on 9/11 many Moslems died in those towers along with people of all religions. Many americans who have been living here for generations are Moslems and were just as horrified as anyone else on that day. The Moslem people should not be singled out because of some idiot group that decides to cause terror. As for building churches on concurred ground I could go into so many examples in history of Christian Churches built that were from concurred territory it would make your head spin. I think they have every right to build that center and not feel ashamed at all, it was not their fault. People need to start thinking rationally.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

jdb, if you had read the whole article, you would see that I fully acknowledge their right to build it. I also freely admit the many other peoples have built on scared grounds for similar reasons; it is not just a moslem thing.

What you obviously did not understand from this article is that even though they have the right, if they truly want to reach out to the community as they say they do, then they should build it somewhere else. Because this location is so contentious and as volatile as people's feelings are about this location, this house of prayer, commonly called a mosque, will also always be contentious. It will never be the place of community healing that they claim they want.

When you purposely step on people's toes, you shouldn't be surprised when they pull their feet back.


jdb 6 years ago

Joni

The problem here is this, The American people have to start thinking rationally, These moslems Are fellow Americans why are they being made to feel ashamed for what happened? they had absolutly nothing to do with this, If they move the center it is so much as saying we are ashamed and we are guilty. Why can't Americans open up their hearts to these people and let them know that they don't blame them, and show good will by letting them have this center in peace. I truly think this would heal everyone concerned eventually.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Americans are thinking rational. According to the backers of this mosque, the mosque is being built to heal feelings in the community. You don't do this by insulting people. Just once, can someone please show American citizens some consideration, show us some good will. After all, we are constantly being tolerant of everyone else feelings. This mosque will never cause healing. It will always be contentious. Some of the backers to this are on the record blaming the US for 9-11. People don't forget stuff like that and it is inappropriate to ask them to.


jdb  6 years ago

But let's look at the shoe on the other foot for just once. Don't you think it is insulting to the Moslem community to say we don't want you here because your religion did 9/11. When in all actuality it was 19 thugs that hijacked a religion and did this in the name of that religion. You are more or less condeming them for this act when they had no control over what happened. You forget the majority of these people are American citizens. I am a third generation American of Moslem faith, but I am as American as they come. I grew up in a community of Christians, And I am pretty conservitive. I am not really as religious as some moslems, but for the life of me I just don't understand this logic. I know that if I had a family member in those towers, and this act was done by another faith, in no way would I blame that faith for the death of my loved one and say that they could not build a community center with a prayer room 2 blocks away. I would understand that this was not in anyway their fault. AS for the backers blaming the US for 9/11, well their are questions being asked by many people, because they don't think that the 9/11 report was truthful and left out, or chose to leave important info out. There is a group forming, of many top notch people that want the truth on 9/11, firefighters who were there, have formed a group firefighters for 9/11 truth. and others heres a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y3h8yV3qY8

So it's not just the backers of this center that have questions. It may not have been the US, and we all would hate to think this could be, but there are questions if you look deeper into this.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

No jdb,

I don’t need to put the shoe on the other foot because we are not telling them we don’t want them here. Do not change the message here. We are saying that it is insulting for them to want the mosque at that location. Not just insulting but extremely insulting. Pure and simple. It clearly shows a lack of understanding for them even to consider putting it there. It is inappropriate. It is crass and callous of moslems to want to put it at this location. No one would have a problem with it a few blocks away.

Perhaps you are too close to it to see. As I said earlier to another poster, no one in America and I mean no one, would think of putting a Japanese shrine or temple anywhere near Pearl Harbor. That doesn’t mean we hate the Japanese or their religions. We are allies with the Japanese. And although the circumstances may not be exactly the same, the sentiment is similar.

While it may have only been 19 thugs that actually did the deed on 9/11 but it is still under directives of the terrorists. Nobody blames peaceful moslems for what occurred on that day. We blame the terrorists. And that is what they are no matter what anyone else decides to call them. We also paid attention to how the peaceful moslems condemned this attack. We all saw the celebrating in the streets. We all heard the huge NOTHING from the peaceful American moslems who now say they condemn the acts on 9/11.

People are paying attention and although it may not always be fair, what goes on in Dearborn and other places around the world where Sharia is trying to usurp existing laws, affects how people judge peaceful moslems. Just like the moslems judging American Christians by the acts of a lone wacked out preacher in Florida. It happens.

As for any truther claims? Not going there at all and do not add any more links to this hub. You are not going to change anyones’s mind here so stop trying.

As I said in the article, America is always the one being asked to be tolerant. Yet a request by the American people for tolerance about this mosque is called hateful and intolerant. Why is it always America that needs to be careful of others feelings? Why aren’t the peaceful moslems more understanding of the American people’s feelings over this proposed location. Are they really that unfeeling and ignorant? Or do they not care? I guess that is the question isn’t it?

And if the peaceful moslems go forward with this project despite all the misgivings of the American people, isn’t it showing the country how intolerant and uncaring they really are?


gr82bme profile image

gr82bme 6 years ago from USA

Joni, congrats on sticking to your guns with jdb. I live in New york and I must say there is a whole city, why there? We do not want it there! My daughter lives close enough that they could feel the house shake when the towers went down! I was online talking to her when it was happening. She was crying and scared. We should NEVER have to be afraid in our own country.

Did you notice the coward has noway to go to his site and le ave a commnt


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

I did notice..... I sympathize with your daughter. It is my understanding that the final decisions on this mosque are coming up soon. It will be interesting to watch. Thanks for reading and for adding your comments.


gr82bme profile image

gr82bme 6 years ago from USA

Joni, I have to give you and Magzz a thumbs up for having the balls to say what others are afraid to say and stick to it!


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 6 years ago Author

Thanks for the kudos gr82bme.


The Farmers Wife profile image

The Farmers Wife 5 years ago from Turkey

Well done Joni. You took a very sensitive subject and turned it into a reasoned and informative hub.


Joni Douglas profile image

Joni Douglas 5 years ago Author

Thank you The Farmers Wife. I know the subject may be volatile but for many people it is important and deeply personal.


virgo 4 years ago

I am Asian Indian living in US. The way muslims destroyed and still destroying our Hindu culture in India, US should say flat "NO". Its muslim tactic to destroy other cultures. They are the true barbarians.

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