Crosses are Pagan


Thinking about God and gods and goddesses,and angels and spirits and Jesus take up a lot of my time. Like since I could have a rational thought.

Being raised Southern Baptist was an interesting theological experience. God bless (see, I believe) my mother, she tried in every way she could to keep me out of Hell. Wanted me to walk the streets of gold. Now there is a thought, streets of gold, would God really want us to walk on something mined by man, culled by man and sold by man? I, for one hope not, it would be hard and slippery.

Now about halos. I have been told that I will have one due to the compassion I have for animals. I think I would misplace it, break it or maybe give it away, so I don't want one. I want a nice fluffy cloud with cable TV and air conditioning for the hot flashes and books, lots of books, or better web access!.

There are an awful lot of angels on TV in long white robes. I need a brown one. I don't know how I keep doing it but can stain a white shirt between the closet and the bedroom door. Worrying about that would be a bummer. I want to look nice wherever it is I wind up.

Truth be told, believing something man wrote to keep the poor, old pagans in control, God bless their polytheistic little souls. is still not clear to me. I hope all their souls are laughing at those men now, I know it sounds like I hate men. I don't, I just have a problem with those men who changed history for the worse.


Now there was a real man.  He wasn't afraid to live on the rim of the Jewish society.  He tried to tell us that not only he, but we are all God's children.  Preaching unity, caring for each other and being a trainer healer, (he was trained in the temple) he helped others with his gifts.  Kindness was his mission and he got strung up on a cross by who?  Not the Jews, the stinkin' Romans. All of this was foreseen in the Old Testament and everyone knew it.  There were several men vying for that position, some very worthy.  But it was not a Christian belief, it was Jewish.  Maybe that is why they don't believe he has come yet.  If there is anyone reading that knows, please comment and get me on the right track.  This is what I have studied in theology, however, I have found that everyone has their own interpretation, hence different religions.


War is not the way to go. Too many of our men, and their civilians are killed and that is just plain stupid.

Have you ever noticed that everyone believes that God is on their side? If God is on every one's side no one has a snow balls chance in Hell ); of winning.

This is how we should do it. If another country or we decide we are going to war with another somebody, we send over 5 men or women, I don't care who, but they should be very good at poker. The rules are: No drinking (it might encourage that fighting thing), Whoever wins 4 out of 7 hands wins the war. No quarreling and no going behind anyone's back to cheat. No excuses, nothing, that's it, the end.

OR we could send over whomever rules over the countries waging war and let them box it out in a ring on world wide TV. Again, no cheating, blah blah blah. however, these rules will have to be read every 30 minutes so these people and their people remember. Keep everyone's "their people" in a room with no communication, just a TV and popcorn.

Since I choose not to believe God cares about poker or boxing, we all win. No dead bodies, no starving babies, no mass stupidity.


Each of us has the right to believe and live as we wish. Don't go around doing incredibly inane things. Start with the stupid and you go away from the rest of us, Someplace miserable. Maybe we could talk the Russians into lending us a plot in Siberia. We could send them away with a toothbrush and underwear. We don't need them back. If their crimes are not too bad, it's off to London Tower with a toothbrush and pj's. Nobody wants to go to those places, they would rather be in jail with 3 squares, a cot and medical care. All jails will be converted into homeless shelters.

The whole religion thing is that every religion believes they are the only link to God.

Everyone of us is of God. Created and loved.

Now, anyone who has read my Hubs knows I consider myself a witch. I truly wish that wasn't a horrible label, but it is. I think it should be naturalistic believer. I believe in God and Goddess and Angels and Spirits. God/Goddess can, but shouldn't have to do this all on his/her own. We are a handful!

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Comments 46 comments

Green Lotus profile image

Green Lotus 6 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Yes everyone of us is indeed of god and the universe.

Regarding the implications of the word "witch".. J.K. Rowling, has done an extraordinarily wonderful job improving the image to a younger generation...so there's hope yet. My hat's on to her :)

Have a beautiful day Gracie and a Happy Halloween

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

Thanks, you too.

Blake Hunter 6 years ago

You should consider learning more before you come to your conclusions about Jesus. You state, "He tried to tell us that not only he, but we are all God's children. He actually said, "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do." You also state that he came, "Preaching unity..." He actually said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother,and a daughter in law against her mother in law; and a man's enemies will be those of his own household." Another time He said, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." There is a ubiquitous, popular ideology ABOUT Jesus. But, many times, the Truth of KNOWING Him is contrary to that misconception.

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

Yes, there are a LOT of quotes that Jesus made and stories of what he did. He did reject his family and yet the Bible also states we should honor our mother and father and parents should not provoke their children unto wrath. I wonder how you KNOW hm? Through salvation? Yet this usually comes about due to fear of Hell. The ability to know him through study is impossible as there is not enough information in the Bible. He was born and them he was 33. His learning years missing.

He performed miracles by feeding a mass of hungry people with fish and bread, hardly enough for one. Water to wine, all caring things to do. Healing is a loving thing.

You speak of Jesus as though he was using fear, yet again, to make others follow him. Bit diconserting. Do Fear and Trust go together?

In churches I have attended and listened to teachers of the Bible, why is this never brought to the forefront? I have a theological study background, as you obviously do. The misunderstanding of the prayer "Our FATHER who art in heaven.." Our Father, just as Jesus referred to Him.

There are many conflictions in the Bible that cancel each others teachings. Study of the Bible shows that.

We can argue about our difference in beliefs but that usually leads to nothing good.

Respecting You,


Blake Hunter 6 years ago

I hope you come to understand God and His word the way I do. You seem to have some misconceptions about His love and the infalability of His word. That makes me sad. Unfortunately, many of those misconceptions come from churches that don't know or preach Truth. That is why God is truly approached through relationship NOT religion. I noticed you are a witch. I feel compelled to just tell you that God wants you to worship the creator(Him), not his creation(nature), And that there really is an afterlife that is either spent in His presence or banished from Him. The thing is we can't make that choice after we die. It must be done on this side of eternity. God asked me to tell you these things.

Loving you and God bless.


EnglishM 6 years ago


I enjoyed your humour, and I can see that you are looking for some answers. I can help towards getting you on the right track (without being chained to a religious belief). I would be honoured if you would take a look at: Young, Free And Single... Forever And Ever, Amen. I think it will be beneficial to you.

With love, EnglishM.

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Dear Blake: Thought I knew I would hear from Christians I was in fear of being blasted. Though I cannot change what you beleive, niether can you change me. I have tried the Christian path and was never comfortable with it, I found mine and am finally happy in my realtionship with God, yes witches believe in God. Thanks to you for taking time to try to "help" me and Blessed Be.

Dear English: I am not young, nor free, nor single. I am 49, mortgage, kids, all of it and I sm married. I have found my peace through not worshipping his things (like a Bible)I worhship His true works while speaking with Him/Her.

To each of you I wish happiness to continue in the ways you have found.

Blessed Be to Each and All

EnglishM 6 years ago

My article isn't about your current status. I don't know what sm married means or the other parts of your message. I was simply offering a friendly response to your article. You don't have to reciprocate, I just thought that's how it worked on hubpages, sorry.

White Horse 6 years ago

Dear EnglishM: Being of the "English" you should have known that sm married probably means AM MARRIED. Get your p's and q's straight and stay Qool.

Tynikolai profile image

Tynikolai 6 years ago

I really liked your article, Gracie. Your emphasis on Christ teaching that we are all God's children and not just a select few is something I deeply believe in. I don't know who this Blake guy is, but dude, you are not a prophet! I'm quite sure you don't recieve revelation from God to tell someone else what to with thier life. I beleive we all recieve guidance and revelation from God personally in our own lives or for the lives of our families. I don't believe that it stretches to people whom you don't know and don't understand.

Thanks again for the enlightening article, Gracie.

EnglishM 6 years ago

White Horse. I should have known that sm means am, and I should get my p's and q's straight and stay qool? I'm glad I didn't say that. You must be really embarrassed, but it's too late now.

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

You guys are great, all of you! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and a BIG thanks for coming to my aid! Misunderstandings are okay, we all do it!

Just love each other, "we" are all we have.

Kori Lee F.P. profile image

Kori Lee F.P. 6 years ago from Northern Arizona


Great sense of humor- so excellent- love the brown robe- and cloud with good web access- to question what heaven would be is so needed. I mean I would not want to be up there with too many Blake Hunters because how you read the scriptures probably determines what cloud or section of heaven you will arrive at. Since we are finding so many lost writings lately- 1945- Nag Hammadi, Gospel of Mary, Philip, Secret Books of John and so many more give a whole new dimension to the what Christ taught. I think you have everything right about Jesus. If people believe the Bible was not manipulated by corrupt Roman Emperors they may need to watch the history channel a little more. I think you would have reached Christ's inner circle- like a disciple where secret teachings were taught and open dialogue begins about all the mysteries of the universe. The rest of the masses needed parables- stories because using their mind and heart together was too difficult.

Great Hub!!!!

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

Thanks Kori, No one really knows what the rights and wrongs are, much less if there are any.

It is something I listen to everyone's opinions on. Just getting their thoughts.


arvino 6 years ago

Good hub Gracie, I like it when you write about his love and grace. I want to comment on Mr. Blake Hunters comments. You must understand that when Jesus said that "you are of your father the Devil, he was talking to the scribes and religious leaders of those days. Because they didnt allow people to know God for themselves. And when he said that he came not to bring peace but devision,he was speaking of the Word of God. The word of God is considered a sword which cuts and devide truth from faulse. Thank you.

EnglishM 6 years ago

Let's see how long it takes you all to figure this one out? Matthew. Chapter 6, verses 7 and 8.

dotslash profile image

dotslash 6 years ago

"I hope you come to understand God and His word the way I do. You seem to have some misconceptions about His love and the infalability of His word. That makes me sad."

Sigh, we're all wrong, we can't have doubts and we have to understand God in exactly the same way as Blake Hunter has decided. That makes me sad.....

GracieLinda 6 years ago

He was talking about hypocrites and street preachers. What does that have to do with this? BTW: The Lord's Prayer is beautiful and repetitious. When you quote or read, quote or read all scripture having to do with the point you are trying to get across.

Arvino, thank you for your clarification.

Blessed Be


My Best


GracieLinda 6 years ago


Don't be sad, we can't all think alike, we would be drones. The "truth" is not known. It can't be known until we are with Him. That means dead. The premise on which religion is truly based.

I am not sad for you.


Tynikolai profile image

Tynikolai 6 years ago

@ EnglishM

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. - Matt Ch.6:7-8 King James Version.

Obviously it condemns repetitious prayers. God is our Heavenly Father, he wants to hear from us like how a loving father wants to hear from his children. The second part is true, that he knows what we are in need of but still he wants us to pray and put forth an effort to commune with him. It shows faith, devotion and love for our Heavenly Father.

Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -Matt Ch.7:21

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Yep, that's what is says.


Tynikolai profile image

Tynikolai 6 years ago

There are many things that can be learned from these verses. My example was but one of them. Another could be connected to earlier verses in the chapter, that prayer isn't something to boast ourselves. Back in the day, you had people who would pray memorized prayers on street corners for the glory of men. Another example is one written by James E. Talmage on these verses that "Prayer is for the uplifting of the suppliant. God without prayers would still be God; but we without prayer cannot be admitted to the kingdom of God."

Those are just other examples, there are probably ample others as well.

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

English, this isn't a Bible verse contest. We all interpret the Bible differently, hence the different beliefs.

vparaty profile image

vparaty 6 years ago

dear linda

my opinion is similar to yours. The reality is that if we believe in light is for safety, if we believe in joy is because of the sadness ... People have to believe that the reality is very simple and we are all part of it. I have written about how the majority of people have tried over the years to deploy beliefs and religions while the real "me" grow with nature as a space between body and mind in which everything is possible if we are balanced. For many years some people tried to stop the real witches, who could see beyond, we witness throughout history, only as a matter of beliefs or religions or power. Nobody has the right to impose beliefs or withdraw. We are all part of one and a part of the whole. the silence has to start to be heard. A new era is necessarily after so many years of outdated ideas and beliefs in my free opinion. I wish you all the luck!

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Thanks, VParaty. Very well stated.

Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 6 years ago from Savannah GA.

"Heaven..is a place...were nothing ever happen!' (The Talking Heads). I am one who has studied many religions including Witchcraft, but I have found that worshiping Nature did not work for me, and have just recently returned to Christianity for it was not until I did so did I really find a connection with God. It is sad for I know that so may have been put to death for the wrong reasons. There are also so many that misinterpret the Bible. However, I also believe there is only one God. Satan, (which I know most Witches do not even claim to believe in) will try to deceive the very elect...so my prayers go out for you so that, you will come to know the Creator of this world and not just "the spirit in Nature." You are right though, in saying crosses were originally Pagan Like in the Celtic cross OR the Roman cross that was used to crucify several criminals though out hundreds of years! There is so much talk about the so called Holy wars that have killed so many...but remember that a lot of the Crusades were against the the Muslims who declared war on "The Holy Land" and the Christiane Knights were coming to the defense of Jerusalem.

Shadow_Malakai profile image

Shadow_Malakai 6 years ago from Somewhere in Florida


This was beautifully written and could not agree with you more. What you wrote is very true. I read some of your comments that others have posted, I don't want to bog down your Hub page with nonsensical comments. But, for that Blake character: What you wrote about Jesus being against mother, father, blah blah blah. Jesus was saying that to the sinners of Jerusalem and that that would be their punishment. Gracie is correct that he wanted to bring unity to mankind but through his death would that be possible. But all this is speculation though because the Bible IS IN FACT FALLIBLE. Why?? Because it was written by MAN, and although I am going back to what the Bible says, Man is fallible.... Plus, the Bible is History, correct?? It is someone's version of what happened...His Story.

Not too mention, but Christians are the worst sinners of all time. Due to the fact that they DO NOT keep that Sabbath Day holy. I used to be a Christian, not anymore once I learned that churches, ministers, etc. to me were evil. I am now Wicca. But back to Christians and how they are sinners. The Bible says that Man shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy, correct? Well Sabbath Day is not Sunday, it is Saturday. God states that Sunday is only the beginning of the week.

Anyways, Gracie I apologize for this long spiel, but I couldn't let that Blake character "lash out" at you like that. It seemed like he was lashing out anyway. Awesome, awesome hub. Please keep up the good work!!!

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Thanks to both you guys. We must all follow the path that is right for US. Not what others yell at us. Be of good cheer and remember, we are all different, not infalliable, just different.

Much Love and Many Blessings


Blake Hunter 6 years ago

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who belives in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Blake, I understand that you believe in the Bible. You need to understand that I do believe in Jesus, however research shows that He was not the only saying he was God's son. There were many others in that time claiming the same. The Catholics chose Jesus to scare us with.

Blake Hunter 6 years ago

What? That doesn't make sense. Jesus' first advent was BEFORE the Catholic church. Catholic dogma or liturgy has no bearing on The Truth. It is secondary. Many Catholics believe some false stuff right on through to today such as transubstantiation, and the worship of the mother Mary, and confession, etc. Regardless, the canonization of scriptures coupled with the historically fulfilled prophecies of the manner of Christ's coming all prove that Jesus is the one.

Blake Hunter 6 years ago

Some other questions:

Suppose what you say is true that, "The Catholics chose Jesus to scare us with." If their intention was to spread fear, why would they choose Jesus? What is scary about Jesus? How could they take the One that came "to seek and to save that which was lost," and monger fear? A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.

topshelf profile image

topshelf 6 years ago from South Florida

good job blake!!!!!

I agree with you 100%

God Bless

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Blake, in one of your prior missives, you were fearmongering. Decide what you want Jesus to be and go with peace. We are simply going to disagree on this. I have lived and believed both ways. I am happier where I am with God, now than ever before.


Tim 6 years ago

Hey, just checking out Hub, thinking about writing myself.

I can see from all of the conversations that it is an engaging process.

Just a thought: There can't be opposing universal truths. Someone is right, someone is wrong. The someone who is right may only know a part of it, or could even mess up in communicating it to others. But someone still has to be right.

For example, someone may say "Morals are human, derived from social growth and cultural norms", while another may say "Morals are dictated divinely by a perfect being". Both may live in the same neighborhood, grill out, and respect one another. But someone is right.

This is because we know that there is truth. Truth exists. we get lied to all the time. So there are true things, and false things. Truth can not be subjective. Different people may see a car accident and have different, even opposing perspectives of how the car accident occurred. But how it exactly did happen is truth. And someone is probably going to be closer to that truth, or have even witnessed or experienced the truth of it. But truth is not subjective. This applies to worldview beliefs as well. "How did the material world come to be?" "What is the purpose in life?" "How do we know what is right and wrong?" There is a right and wrong answer to all those questions and more. Someone, perhaps some people, are bound to be closer to the truth than others.

Happy hubbing!

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Tim: Thanks for your comment. I agree with you. The problem is until we get to where we know the answers, we don't. We have to muddle through with what we believe. What makes us comfortable in our relationships with God, the Universal Spirit or whatever one may call Him/Her/Them. The other perspective is not beieving anything at all. I am okay with the beliefs of all simply because we cannot know what the truth is.

Thanks again.


Hobiwan 6 years ago

Any "God" that requires worship is not worth following. A true omniscient all powerful being has no need to be worshipped. If he/she knows all, then why would they need to satisfy their own ego? If worship is required, my first impulse is to run away. Very fast.

The passage regarding 'setting' one against another has to do with tearing down titles and man made relationships. You MUST renounce your own family in order to recognize the entire human race as your 'family' and the entire cosmos as your 'home'.

Jawa Lunk 6 years ago

As far as your comments on Jesus, you pretty much got it. For halo's, those actually began as artists were commissioned to paint the "saints" (which actually, the scriptures say all followers of Christ are saints, not just the ones the pope says are...second note, pope is not even a position or term from the Bible to begin with), the halo was the artists was of trying to show the Holy Spirit which had fallen on believers, such as took place on the day of pentecost.

And the description of the strets of gold was either symbolic or the best way it could be described. Many men were shown things they had never seen before in heaven and prophecy, it wasn't like it is today where we have all seen sci-fi movies and all the special effects and stuff...back then, there was none of that, so it was very difficult for them to describe the things they saw. Like when the throne of God is described in Revelation, the floor is described as being clear like glass. Probably not real glass, made from sand, burned in a furnace by men and transported to the throne room by UPS, but something that appeard as something they HAD seen before.

BUT, maybe it is real gold and glass? I mean, He is God, He could do that if He wanted I guess.

Another misconception is that we become angels when we die. We don't, angels were created as angels, and we were created as people with souls. We receive new bodies when we die (thank God, this one is really wore out! LOL), and the new bodies we receive will be perfect, and everlasting, and we will be perfect because our new bodies will have never been tainted by sin, like everything in this world has.

Even jerusalem, and heaven have been tainted with sin (Satans revolt), and this is why we are told in the scriptures that after the final judgment, death and sin, along with the beast, false prophet and satan will be cast into Gehenna (the final everlasting hell), and all those who worship him, and there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, and a new Jerusalem, and these will go along with our new bodies which have never seen sin.

The fact that man twisted god's Word into a means of control, is a sad sick fact, and should be no reflection on God Himself. This was one of the reasons Jesus had come. If you look at the scriptures, Jesus ONLY critisized the Sadduccees and the Pharisees, no where does he attack sinners or the lost! In fact, Jesus Himself said "I came NOT to judge the lost, but to save them!", you can't be any more clear than that.

What man has done with God's Word has become a franchise for financial gains, and means of control of the weak, and those in need...this is NOT God's Word, but man's evil nature at work.

Jesus was clear what the Father in heaven wants, Love God with all your heart, mind body and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

There are only a small reminent of true followers of Christ, who live ny the Word of God, the way it was intended...and you will know them by their fruit.

unfortunately, as long as their is hate in this world, people like myself will continually be classified among the liars, thiefs and deceivers of the faith...judged not for who I am and what I believe, but by how others who claim my Father and Saviors name act.

It's for this reason I do not call my self a "Christian", because that term has been dragged through the mud.

And it's sad, everyone else in this world can believe and say whatever they want, adn if anyone says anything about it, they cry "foul...you're not tolorant", but if I say God, or Jesus, I am instantly branded and attacked for my faith.

It's a sad double standard for those of us who are true followers of Christ.

I have many friends who are athiest, and a couple agnostic...I don't try to "convert" them, the Bible says that only the Holy Spirit can convert ones soul. I simply love them as my friends, and hope that maybe one day they may ask about my God, some have, some don't, the decision IS ultimately theirs.

God doesn't teach in His word that we are to convert people, but throughout He teaches we are to love them.

Jah Truth 6 years ago

Only You can save Yourself!

You ARE GOD and so am I!

ceciliabeltran profile image

ceciliabeltran 6 years ago from New York

Jah, get a grip. You don't blurt it out like that. The light trickles in different shades on earth. It fragmented for a reason, for a multifaceted experience of the I. If we have one perception of G-d, then we will have but one face. But we were created different, because each is a unique expression of G-d. For me, a person who bothers to think about G-d, be in the shape of Jesus or Buddha will find the truth within himself. There are many paths to the truth and only one truth. But we all have to traverse the path in our own unique way.

GracieLinda 6 years ago

Quoting the Bible is somewhat like quoting fictional work based on a true story.

I will worship my way, you worship yours. It's okay. if, as Jah says, only the Satan Worshipers and the like, most of us are safe!

jwmu311 profile image

jwmu311 6 years ago from Right behind you.

Ha, I like the way you write. And no one knows what Jesus said, so the people on here who are trying to correct you are merely just regurgitating words they read out of a book. And, last time I checked, none of us were actually there, so...in conclusion...nice post!

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

jwm331: Thanks. I don't blame the Christians for standing up for what they believe. It is as important to them as our beliefs are to us. It is simply the way things are said that is disturbing. Like, fanatic disturbing.


Wayne Orvisburg profile image

Wayne Orvisburg 6 years ago

I like the poker idea!

Electro-Denizen profile image

Electro-Denizen 6 years ago from Wales, UK

The way of resolving war isn't actually too far fetched. It is said that opposing tribal leaders in ancient Britain, would sometimes stand together and come to an agreement between them, while their men were gearing up to fight. These tribal leaders were meant to be well versed and highly trained, in recitation of ancient verbal texts...

Yes I know what you mean, 'like, fanatic disturbing.' I had to laugh, not nastily, but just remembering... I went through my years of being around Christians who thought yoga, for example, was evil. There was much headbanging going on in these circles. Perhaps not realising that the root for the word yolk (in, 'my yolk is easy...' Matthew 11:30), has its root in the same word as yoga. That Jesus was saying 'my yoga is easy' - i.e. the absorption of karma through the grace of an enlightened one, re-asserting the guru relationship ('no one comes to the Father but through me' John 14:6). Sort of akin to Bhakti yoga, one of the eight paths.

But I suppose, people only know what they know, and what they've bothered to study, and how much they've travelled the globe.

GracieLinda profile image

GracieLinda 6 years ago from Brandon, FL Author

And if minds and hearts could stay open and not close around what "agrees" with them we might even have tolerance and true "Brotherly Love."

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