About HELL: Answer to brotheryochanon
Brotheryochanon said, and I quote:
brotheryochanon commented the following on my hub, "Where or What is HELL?" (link below)
ill hub the lazarus parable.
But before I start, the word "Hades" & "Geenna" are the Greek words that were translated as Hell according to catholic doctrine, be not deceived by this. In the Hebrew the word for Hell is "Sheol" as i mentioned sheol is grave or pit. Hell if you are catholic.
Where exactly did jesus go just prior to his resurrection? Matthew 27:51-54. the word graves there is originally tombs and the reason for tomb is because there is no air in graves or pits and the earthly bodies of the holy ones, not saints that's catholic too. I am a holy one you are a holy one but according to catholics very few are saints. So jesus visited the tombs of those dead and raised them up but commanded they depart not before him for jesus must be the firstfruits of the dead. So they had to tarry for 3 days or less. The verse says came out of the graves/tombs after his resurrection. Jesus was in tombs not hell certainly not the lowest part of hell, just the lower part of the earth. about 12 feet lower, im guessing, and he spent his days raising second fruits from those that SLEPT! (vs:52) they were not suffering from heat exhaustion, they were sleeping.
Hell doesn't exist. The lake of fire is called the second death. Our loving god does not want sinners wiggling in torment forever and ever, crying out and screaming across some fixed gulf for eons and eons and eons. I certainly do not want to hear them. I really don't want to see them either. Remember the saying love the sinner hate the sin. How can god do any worse. How can we preach a god of love if he torments people souls endlessly. NO. God will unmake each non-candidate for heaven and put an end to the whole experience of the old earth for good. The lake(spirit) of fire(gods justice) and will exterminate them forever while all (rev. 20:11-14) all will stand before the great white judgment seat and be judged according to our works, not our sins, our (godly) works.
So you don't believe in Hell and think Sheol/Hades is simply the grave?
As much as you want to believe Sheol/Hades is just the grave or tombs, don’t you find it interesting that in Luke 24:24 which states the tomb was empty (regarding Jesus’ resurrection), and in Mat 27:53 about those who came out of their tombs, the word for “tomb(s)” is mnémeion meaning grave? How about the Old Testament? The word used for “grave” is qeburah or qeber. And the word used for tomb is gadiysh. Let’s just look at Job 21:32 “Yet shall he be brought to the grave [qeber] and shall remain in the tomb [gadiysh]”.
When it comes to Sheol being translated as “grave”, look at Prov 1:12 “Let us swallow them up alive as the grave [Sheol] and whole as those that go down into the pit [bowr].” The definition of Sheol is underworld (place to which people descend at death); the definition of bowr is a pit, cistern, well.
What passages in the Bible talk about the “bottomless pit”? In any case, do you see the word “grave” used here ~ even in the Greek?
Luke 8:31 (KVJ) “And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep [abussos: boundless, bottomless].”
Rev 9:1-2 (KJV) “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless [abussos: boundless, bottomless] pit [phrear: a well]. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.”
Rev 9:11 (KJV) “And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.” Let’s see, that would be a proper noun, a name: Abaddon/Apollyon.
Speaking of Abaddon and the bottomless pit: [Abbadon: (place of) destruction or ruin, Abaddon; intensive from abad; Hades -- destruction].
So, why not use qeburah, qeber or gadiysh when it comes to Sheol? Why not use mnemeion or even taphos when it comes to Hades? Check out Ps 5:9/Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.” The Hebrew word for “grave” is qeber; the Greek word is taphos.
It's obvious by your hubs you don't really think Satan is real nor are demons. Yet, you claim to be a born-again, Spirit-baptized Christian. 1 Cor 11:14-15 state, "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."
Are you insinuating the Catholics re-wrote the Bible? Are all Bible-believing Christians Catholic? I'm not Catholic and find many of their religious practices unscriptural (i.e. praying to the spirits of dead Catholics, believing in pergatory, infant baptism, determining who is a saint and who is not, etc.)
Jesus was a Jew who came to minister to the Jews. Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone. He certainly wasn’t speaking to “Catholics”, and His words are recorded in the Bible in Greek, though He spoke Hebrew.
There are four words that translate as Hell in the Bible. If you wish to study, read my hub called "How To Do An Inductive Bible Study" (link below). By the way, don't you find it interesting that the Strong's Concordances do not include the Catholic apocrypha books? I guess Dr. James Strong was not a Catholic, nor are his definitions of Hebrew and Greek words influenced by Catholic doctrine. In fact, his concordances align with the King James Version of the Bible, which you obviously embrace. I think you need to grow more mature in your understanding of the Scriptures, and that comes by "studying to show yourself approved unto God" (2 Tim 2:15), for "no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation" (2 Pet 1:20).
Since Jesus spoke Hebrew, the account of the rich man and Lazarus would have been talking about Sheol, which you claim is just the grave. Obviously, both the rich man and Lazarus DIED (Luke 16:22). Sheol (Hebrew)/Hades (Greek) is the same (Luke 16:23). You totally left out Tartatroo (Greek), which is defined as the “deepest abyss of Hades”. So, in every tomb are incarcerated angels who sinned in the days of Noah? (2 Pet 2:4-5). 1 Pet 3:19 states that Jesus first went to “make PROCLAMATION to the spirits now in prison", which is the word kerusso (it does not mean to preach the gospel unto salvation); verse 20 tells you who those spirits are: "who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water." In Jewish times, the winner of a battle would proclaim the victory to the captives and give gifts to the victors (Eph 4:8). Look at Col 2:14 “When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.”
Did the Jews believe in life after death? Look at Mat 14:2 “and said to his servants, ‘This is John the Baptist; he has risen from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.’" And Mat 16:14 when Jesus asked His disciples who the Jews thought He was: “And they said, ‘Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.’" While they knew of God’s destruction by the flood and that of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as those in Numbers 16:30 “But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD,” this would indicate God’s destruction of the wicked and that Sheol is more than just a tomb or grave. The earth opened its mouth and these were swallowed alive ~ to their physical death, at least.
Furthermore, who appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration? Moses and Elijah (Mat 17:1-9). The Bible says that Elijah did not see death, but does say that Moses died (Deut 34:5-6). And who is it that is prophesied to appear during the 42 months of tribulation? One who will turn water into blood (i.e. Moses) and one who calls fire down from heaven and shuts up the rain (i.e. Elijah). Malachi 4:5-6 state, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
You don’t believe a loving God would torment anyone for eternity? Look at the taste of Hell men will be given during the outpouring of the wrath of God on earth in Rev 9:5-6 “And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.” Geenna is translated as the fiery hell, the final Hell, the Lake of Fire. The beast and false prophet are cast into it at the beginning of the millennial reign and are still there (not destroyed) when Satan is cast in after a thousand years (Rev 19:20-20:10).
Believers were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 26:27-28) and are still called Christians in 1 Pet 4:16. All believers are saints; Catholicism obviously doesn’t believe this? "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (KJV-1 Cor 1:2). Other passages to reference are Rom 1:7, 2 Cor 1:1, Rom 8:27; 15:25-26; 1 Cor 16:1; Eph 1:15, 18; 6:18; Col 1:12, 26; Jude 1:3 and Rev 8:3-4. Now, who does Catholicism claim to be their Apostle? Peter. Who wrote the letters to the "saints" in Corinth and other churches? Paul.
When did Jesus tell those who came out of their graves not to depart before Him? There is no scriptural basis for that. If you read Mat 27:5-52, you will notice that those who came out of their tombs were believers (no need to be 'preached' to). They also came out of their graves at the moment Jesus died ~ when the veil in the temple was ripped in two. Yes, it was after His resurrection they appeared to many in the Holy City (Jerusalem). We don’t know if they died again, as Lazarus must have (John 11:43-46). Does this mean our souls do not leave our earthly bodies when we die? What does Paul say? “To be absent from the body and present with the Lord” (2 Cor 5:8). If our souls stayed with our bodies until resurrection, we would NEVER be absent from them. Also, Jesus said Himself that we will never ever die (John 11:26), then said, “Do you believe this?”
Well, everyone dies (with the exception of Enoch and Elijah – Heb 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1-11), and those who are “alive and remain” at the catching up of the saints (1 Thes 4:17). Does “sleep” mean “dead”? Yes. Have you witnessed death? In a casket you do not witness breathing, do you? How about those who are cremated? Are they literally asleep? The reason a dead person is said to be “asleep” in the Bible is because bodies will be resurrected to life or condemnation (Dan 12:2; Mat 25:46)…new bodies, that is. These bodies will be incorruptible (1 Cor 15:52). This says the “DEAD” will be raised incorruptible. Incorruptible means we will never die again, including those in the “second death”, which is the Lake of Fire, where they will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. They have no rest day or night, and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever (Rev 14:10-11). Does this say we will hear them? Are we the holy angels or the Lamb? No.
You said that “lake” translates as “spirit”? Where do you get that? The Greek word for “lake” as in “lake of fire” is limné and literally means LAKE. You obviously don’t understand the judgment seat. Judgment is the word krisis. The Lake of Fire is the final sentencing to those who are condemned. Rom 8:1 states that we who are in Christ Jesus do not come into this judgment (krisis). We are rewarded according to our deeds (Rev 11:18); the condemned are judged according to their deeds (2 Cor 11:13-15).
Based on my studies, it appears that the “pit” Sheol/Hades/Tartaroo has levels, the deepest of which is Tartartoo. Heaven also has levels, as Paul equates Paradise to the “third heaven” (2 Cor 12:2-4). Because Jesus indicated the wicked will be judged according to their deeds and that it will be “more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that town [that rejects the gospel]” (Mat 10:15), I think you should open your understanding that Hell is more than the grave.
- Where or What is HELL?
Is hell in the depths of the earth or is it some spiritual realm in the heavens someplace? Whether or not you believe in hell, were going to look at some of the clues in the Bible to see if we can shed some light on this hellish mystery.
- How to do an Inductive Bible Study
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