About HELL: Answer to brotheryochanon

Brotheryochanon said, and I quote:

brotheryochanon commented the following on my hub, "Where or What is HELL?" (link below)

ill hub the lazarus parable.

But before I start, the word "Hades" & "Geenna" are the Greek words that were translated as Hell according to catholic doctrine, be not deceived by this. In the Hebrew the word for Hell is "Sheol" as i mentioned sheol is grave or pit. Hell if you are catholic.

Where exactly did jesus go just prior to his resurrection? Matthew 27:51-54. the word graves there is originally tombs and the reason for tomb is because there is no air in graves or pits and the earthly bodies of the holy ones, not saints that's catholic too. I am a holy one you are a holy one but according to catholics very few are saints. So jesus visited the tombs of those dead and raised them up but commanded they depart not before him for jesus must be the firstfruits of the dead. So they had to tarry for 3 days or less. The verse says came out of the graves/tombs after his resurrection. Jesus was in tombs not hell certainly not the lowest part of hell, just the lower part of the earth. about 12 feet lower, im guessing, and he spent his days raising second fruits from those that SLEPT! (vs:52) they were not suffering from heat exhaustion, they were sleeping.

Hell doesn't exist. The lake of fire is called the second death. Our loving god does not want sinners wiggling in torment forever and ever, crying out and screaming across some fixed gulf for eons and eons and eons. I certainly do not want to hear them. I really don't want to see them either. Remember the saying love the sinner hate the sin. How can god do any worse. How can we preach a god of love if he torments people souls endlessly. NO. God will unmake each non-candidate for heaven and put an end to the whole experience of the old earth for good. The lake(spirit) of fire(gods justice) and will exterminate them forever while all (rev. 20:11-14) all will stand before the great white judgment seat and be judged according to our works, not our sins, our (godly) works.

MY ANSWER:

So you don't believe in Hell and think Sheol/Hades is simply the grave?

As much as you want to believe Sheol/Hades is just the grave or tombs, don’t you find it interesting that in Luke 24:24 which states the tomb was empty (regarding Jesus’ resurrection), and in Mat 27:53 about those who came out of their tombs, the word for “tomb(s)” is mnémeion meaning grave? How about the Old Testament? The word used for “grave” is qeburah or qeber. And the word used for tomb is gadiysh. Let’s just look at Job 21:32 “Yet shall he be brought to the grave [qeber] and shall remain in the tomb [gadiysh]”.

When it comes to Sheol being translated as “grave”, look at Prov 1:12 “Let us swallow them up alive as the grave [Sheol] and whole as those that go down into the pit [bowr].” The definition of Sheol is underworld (place to which people descend at death); the definition of bowr is a pit, cistern, well.

What passages in the Bible talk about the “bottomless pit”? In any case, do you see the word “grave” used here ~ even in the Greek?

Luke 8:31 (KVJ) “And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep [abussos: boundless, bottomless].”

Rev 9:1-2 (KJV) “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless [abussos: boundless, bottomless] pit [phrear: a well]. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.”

Rev 9:11 (KJV) “And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.” Let’s see, that would be a proper noun, a name: Abaddon/Apollyon.

Speaking of Abaddon and the bottomless pit: [Abbadon: (place of) destruction or ruin, Abaddon; intensive from abad; Hades -- destruction].

So, why not use qeburah, qeber or gadiysh when it comes to Sheol? Why not use mnemeion or even taphos when it comes to Hades? Check out Ps 5:9/Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; They flatter with their tongue.” The Hebrew word for “grave” is qeber; the Greek word is taphos.

It's obvious by your hubs you don't really think Satan is real nor are demons. Yet, you claim to be a born-again, Spirit-baptized Christian. 1 Cor 11:14-15 state, "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."

Are you insinuating the Catholics re-wrote the Bible? Are all Bible-believing Christians Catholic? I'm not Catholic and find many of their religious practices unscriptural (i.e. praying to the spirits of dead Catholics, believing in pergatory, infant baptism, determining who is a saint and who is not, etc.)

Jesus was a Jew who came to minister to the Jews. Jesus spoke about Hell more than anyone. He certainly wasn’t speaking to “Catholics”, and His words are recorded in the Bible in Greek, though He spoke Hebrew.

There are four words that translate as Hell in the Bible. If you wish to study, read my hub called "How To Do An Inductive Bible Study" (link below). By the way, don't you find it interesting that the Strong's Concordances do not include the Catholic apocrypha books? I guess Dr. James Strong was not a Catholic, nor are his definitions of Hebrew and Greek words influenced by Catholic doctrine. In fact, his concordances align with the King James Version of the Bible, which you obviously embrace. I think you need to grow more mature in your understanding of the Scriptures, and that comes by "studying to show yourself approved unto God" (2 Tim 2:15), for "no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation" (2 Pet 1:20).

Since Jesus spoke Hebrew, the account of the rich man and Lazarus would have been talking about Sheol, which you claim is just the grave. Obviously, both the rich man and Lazarus DIED (Luke 16:22). Sheol (Hebrew)/Hades (Greek) is the same (Luke 16:23). You totally left out Tartatroo (Greek), which is defined as the “deepest abyss of Hades”. So, in every tomb are incarcerated angels who sinned in the days of Noah? (2 Pet 2:4-5). 1 Pet 3:19 states that Jesus first went to “make PROCLAMATION to the spirits now in prison", which is the word kerusso (it does not mean to preach the gospel unto salvation); verse 20 tells you who those spirits are: "who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water." In Jewish times, the winner of a battle would proclaim the victory to the captives and give gifts to the victors (Eph 4:8). Look at Col 2:14 “When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.”

Did the Jews believe in life after death? Look at Mat 14:2 “and said to his servants, ‘This is John the Baptist; he has risen from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.’" And Mat 16:14 when Jesus asked His disciples who the Jews thought He was: “And they said, ‘Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.’" While they knew of God’s destruction by the flood and that of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as those in Numbers 16:30 “But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD,” this would indicate God’s destruction of the wicked and that Sheol is more than just a tomb or grave. The earth opened its mouth and these were swallowed alive ~ to their physical death, at least.

Furthermore, who appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration? Moses and Elijah (Mat 17:1-9). The Bible says that Elijah did not see death, but does say that Moses died (Deut 34:5-6). And who is it that is prophesied to appear during the 42 months of tribulation? One who will turn water into blood (i.e. Moses) and one who calls fire down from heaven and shuts up the rain (i.e. Elijah). Malachi 4:5-6 state, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”

You don’t believe a loving God would torment anyone for eternity? Look at the taste of Hell men will be given during the outpouring of the wrath of God on earth in Rev 9:5-6 “And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.” Geenna is translated as the fiery hell, the final Hell, the Lake of Fire. The beast and false prophet are cast into it at the beginning of the millennial reign and are still there (not destroyed) when Satan is cast in after a thousand years (Rev 19:20-20:10).

Believers were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 26:27-28) and are still called Christians in 1 Pet 4:16. All believers are saints; Catholicism obviously doesn’t believe this? "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (KJV-1 Cor 1:2). Other passages to reference are Rom 1:7, 2 Cor 1:1, Rom 8:27; 15:25-26; 1 Cor 16:1; Eph 1:15, 18; 6:18; Col 1:12, 26; Jude 1:3 and Rev 8:3-4. Now, who does Catholicism claim to be their Apostle? Peter. Who wrote the letters to the "saints" in Corinth and other churches? Paul.

When did Jesus tell those who came out of their graves not to depart before Him? There is no scriptural basis for that. If you read Mat 27:5-52, you will notice that those who came out of their tombs were believers (no need to be 'preached' to). They also came out of their graves at the moment Jesus died ~ when the veil in the temple was ripped in two. Yes, it was after His resurrection they appeared to many in the Holy City (Jerusalem). We don’t know if they died again, as Lazarus must have (John 11:43-46). Does this mean our souls do not leave our earthly bodies when we die? What does Paul say? “To be absent from the body and present with the Lord” (2 Cor 5:8). If our souls stayed with our bodies until resurrection, we would NEVER be absent from them. Also, Jesus said Himself that we will never ever die (John 11:26), then said, “Do you believe this?”

Well, everyone dies (with the exception of Enoch and Elijah – Heb 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1-11), and those who are “alive and remain” at the catching up of the saints (1 Thes 4:17). Does “sleep” mean “dead”? Yes. Have you witnessed death? In a casket you do not witness breathing, do you? How about those who are cremated? Are they literally asleep? The reason a dead person is said to be “asleep” in the Bible is because bodies will be resurrected to life or condemnation (Dan 12:2; Mat 25:46)…new bodies, that is. These bodies will be incorruptible (1 Cor 15:52). This says the “DEAD” will be raised incorruptible. Incorruptible means we will never die again, including those in the “second death”, which is the Lake of Fire, where they will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. They have no rest day or night, and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever (Rev 14:10-11). Does this say we will hear them? Are we the holy angels or the Lamb? No.

You said that “lake” translates as “spirit”? Where do you get that? The Greek word for “lake” as in “lake of fire” is limné and literally means LAKE. You obviously don’t understand the judgment seat. Judgment is the word krisis. The Lake of Fire is the final sentencing to those who are condemned. Rom 8:1 states that we who are in Christ Jesus do not come into this judgment (krisis). We are rewarded according to our deeds (Rev 11:18); the condemned are judged according to their deeds (2 Cor 11:13-15).

Based on my studies, it appears that the “pit” Sheol/Hades/Tartaroo has levels, the deepest of which is Tartartoo. Heaven also has levels, as Paul equates Paradise to the “third heaven” (2 Cor 12:2-4). Because Jesus indicated the wicked will be judged according to their deeds and that it will be “more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that town [that rejects the gospel]” (Mat 10:15), I think you should open your understanding that Hell is more than the grave.

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30 comments

Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

"Hell does not exist." Yeah, this is what devil teaches.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Amen, brother Vladimir. He also teaches, "Satan and his demons don't exist". Gee, how smart do we have to be to understand the father of lies?


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

God is love. Everyone that reads what I write knows how I cling to that part because it is the believer's part. But God is also just. He does not make an unjust judgment. When He says that it is just that ones that die in their sin spend an eternity away from Him in a place called the lake of fire, it is just. Sin must be punished. Either it is punished in Christ with the Son's blood paying for it or it will be payed with you kept with others who have eternal damnation. God loved and sent his Son. God loved and let His Son die and His life's blood be poured out. God loved and poured out His wrath on Him as He hung on the cross and then loved when He turned His back on Him. He loved by convicting sinners for their entire life in most cases, over and over, reasoning with them, wooing them, beseeching them. He put up with their sneers and jeers and rejection. He loved by putting His salvation in nature so that man is without excuse. No one has the right to say that God is unjust by demanding that His Son be received and people be redeemed by His Blood. Yes, God is love but He is just and people must remember that. Sister you hit another hub right out of the park! Clear, concise and full of Holy Ghost direction. Preach it sister!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi brother Bob ~ Christ Jesus atoned for our sin on the cross, and while some Universalists feel that because He didn't go to Hell, neither will mankind, that is uncalled for. The Lake of Fire is a sentence for those who reject Christ. Jesus was the Lamb of God's Whose shed blood paid the price for the sin of the whole world. The truth is, however, that those who reject Him nullify His atonement and will therefore be sentenced.

I watched a show recently about a soldier that was stung by a scorpion in Aphganistan. Her pain was immense she was given morphine and was barely kept alive with shots of epinephrine, until they could administer the anti-venom. She survived! Now, if God allows those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads to be "tormented" (as though stung by scorpions) for five months, and this is accomplished by demons that come up from the bottomless pit (Sheol/Hades/Tartaroo), whose lid when it is opened releases smoke as of a great furnace, this indicates Sheol is not just the "grave". And, if God says in His Word that these tormented will wish to die and won't be able to ~ what has anyone to say to that? God is love and would never allow such a thing?

We need to preach the Word, including the prophecy that people would rather not hear. I pray those who deny, water down or mock God's Word will wake up and know that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!! (Prov 1:7). Thank you for coming by, my faithful brother. God bless you.


djbraman profile image

djbraman 6 years ago

Amen Sister, you keep preaching the truth of hell until people shudder with fear!Teaching about the reality of hell is a light piercing into the darkness of unbelief that will cause their souls to perish.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Yes, my dear Sister in Christ. When I did a study about "witnessing", it intertwines with the word "testify" and Acts 10:41-42 state "He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead."

Interestingly enough, Felix reacted to the message of the Apostle Paul similarly as those who don't want to hear it today, as shown in Acts 24:25: "As Paul discoursed on righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and said, 'That's enough for now! You may leave. When I find it convenient, I will send for you.'"

To "solemnly testify" is to give unpleasant truth. Jesus ordered His followers to do this, and we carry on where the Apostles left off until He comes. We will not be guilty of sugar-coating the truth to those who will otherwise be condemned, if they do not believe.

God bless you, Sister. In His love ~ JD


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

brotheryocanan, it appears YOU have chosen to "alter" the Bible to suit your own beliefs (i.e. to say that 1 and 2 Peter or Jude are mythological or false teachings). You stand contrary to the Christian world on that one.

To even suggest that Satan, nor spirits can't be bound is way off. You spoke of Job ~ What did God ask Satan when he came before Him? Job 2:2 'Where have you come from?' Then Satan answered the LORD and said, 'From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.'" Just because Satan was cast out of heaven doesn't mean he can't have conversation with God, nor does it mean he dwells in heaven. God is everywhere, for He is Spirit. Satan wanted to kill Job, did he not? Did God limit what he could do? This is the same as binding Satan. He can be partially bound or completely bound by God.

Anyhow, I'm not here to have fruitless discussion with you either. You wish to believe hell doesn't exist; that Sheol/Hades is just the grave...you can choose to believe in annihilation ~ anything you want. I choose to believe the entire Bible and inductive study results.

I know the voice of my Shepherd, and the voice of your beliefs is contrary to His Word. I don't follow a stranger. I am curious as to what shepherd you follow? A particular denominaton? You sound like you have Jehovah's Witness roots...based on my research.


Dchosen_01 6 years ago

wow! I cant believe how fortunate I am to read this. So true, so real, so factual and you've said it all. The Bible is there for us to study and know the truth, but most of us still carry doctrines in our heads and are so blind to the plain, free and open truth.

I do not understand how even christian cannot understand the reality of hell... If hell is not real then our salvation is useless. If I know I would be exterminated forever and seize to exist if I do not believe in Christ, I think I will prefer that, than to exist in paradise. And I am sure most people would. So Hell is real and we would not stop preaching it. I also have a hub on this "why is there Hell if God really loved us" I hope you read it and tell me what you think. Once again thanks so much for this hub.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

DChosen_01, I'm not sure I understand when you said, "If I know I would be exterminated forever and seize to exist if I do not believe in Christ, I think I will prefer that, than to exist in paradise. And I am sure most people would."???? Could you explain or clarify what you mean?

I did read your hub and abolutely loved your rendition of the schoolMaster, His grace and the rebellious student. Very good! Thank you for your kind support and blessings to you!!


vocalcoach profile image

vocalcoach 6 years ago from Nashville Tn.

Good hub - Interesting read. Keep it up. Thanks


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Thank you, vocalcoach! I'm glad you found this interesting and support the gospel truth. Blessings to you, sister!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

None of your business 5 hours ago (I will post a portion of his comment, but leave out the ad hominem):

"I find it very interesting that god commands us IMPERFECT humans to forgive one another no matter what"

ANSWER: Luke 17:3-4 "Be on your guard! If your BROTHER [believer] sins, REBUKE him; and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him. And if he [brother] sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I REPENT,' forgive him."

"and to love your enemies and bless them that curse you...hmmm what's wrong with this picture?"

ANSWER: I already explained the difference between agape and phileo love in another response to you.

"Doesn't the bible say that god is perfect love and that "Perfect love casts out fear (2 John 4:18) There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love?"

ANSWER: God is perfect love. Those who are godless do not abide in perfect love and therefore are under God's judgment. They have everything to fear. Consider the demons that know who God is, yet shudder in His presence, for they KNOW there is an appointed time for the final judgment to geenna, the lake of fire. (James 2:19; Mat 8:29; 2 Pet 2:4) Contrary to what you believe, they have no redemption; only humans do.

"What Does the Bible Say About Judges Judging Others?"

ANSWER: I already explained the difference between judgment amongst the saints and God's judgment upon unbelievers in response to your same question on another hub.


None of your business 5 years ago

Carrie:ANSWER: I already explained the difference between agape and phileo love in another response to you.

Me: You liar! I've looked everywhere on here for the answer, nowhere to be found.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

“Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067” 2 days ago. If you can't find it, maybe this is how you read the Bible, too??


None of your business 5 years ago

Here are some verses for you to mull over, ms. know it all:

Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know NOT ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten... Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

Psalm 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts PERISH (pass away or disappear).

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that SINNETH, it shall DIE.

For ALL have sinned.

John 3:13 And NO MAN hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

According to "Carrie" and her followers: She and others who interpret the bible and believe exactly like she does are going to heaven RIGHT AWAY after they die, but the rest of the world is going straight to a fiery inferno.

According to the scriptures, ALL are going to the same place when we die. . . . THE GRAVE. Get over it.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Ecc 9:5 and 10 are speaking of the fact that we can no longer earn rewards in heaven once we have died in the flesh. Read 1 Cor 3:10-14, verse 10 stating, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it." Verse 14 states, "If any man's work which he has built on it [the foundation of Christ] remains, he will receive a reward." This is obviously after death. Our work remains after we leave this earth, yet we can no longer labor for rewards.

In response to Ps 146:4 see Ecc 3:20-21 "All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth? [question]"

Note how many times the writer says life is "meaningless". If all of us had no reward after death, this life of 'unfairness' and suffering would be meaningless. He's writing from the attitude of those who think this way. However, he comes back to the hope and answer throughout:

Note in Ecc 10:2 "A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him toward the left" and compare this to the 'sheep on the right and goats on the left' in Mat 25:33.

Ecc 11:9 "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

Chapter 3:20-21 is summed up again in 12:7 "and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it [no longer a question, but a statement]". And finally in verses 13-14, "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole [duty] of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil."

Ezek 18:4 would then apply to everyone, for all die in the flesh. So, how can the "soul that sinneth dies" and not the soul that doesn't? This is speaking of eternal death vs. eternal life.

Yes, all have sinned. Why do you think Christ died? He paid what God required for our sin, yet His payment is nullified for those who reject Him. You can't pay for your own sin in this life or the next. If you could, Christ wouldn't have had to die.

John 3:13 is speaking of the bodily resurrection. There are two in Revelation: the first for believers unto reward and life (pre-millennia) and the second for unbelievers unto judgment to the Lake of Fire (post-millennia).

If our soul stayed with our bodies until the resurrection, we would NEVER be absent from our bodies. 2 Cor 5:8 "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

Enough already.


Tamarajo profile image

Tamarajo 5 years ago from Southern Minnesota

You answered a whole bunch of things I had no idea how to answer.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Praise God, sister Tamarajo. This labor is not in vain ~ hallelujah!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

None of your business posted 48 minutes ago "people from parts of the world that have never even heard the name Jesus Christ before they died, let alone accepted him. By your warped interpretation, they are going to roast in hell for eternity."

Really? First of all, every man has an innate knowledge of God and are without excuse (Rom 1:20). Secondly, unless one rejects the gospel (when heard) or rejects the Spirit of God (Adam and Eve didn't have a Bible or a preacher), he is not guilty, for Christ was predestined to be the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8).

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22).


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

None of your business, I have the RIGHT to edit your comments. You said, "So what you're saying is that mentally handicapped people and others who have never heard and can't reject the gospel are automatically in his favor, and get a free ride to heaven?! That contradicts the scriptures that god isn't a respecter of persons (in other words, he doesn't play favorites)."

Sounds like YOU are the one making this judgment, not I. God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy (Rom 9:15). Again, God's mercy was available from before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). The past age and the present age were consummated by the death and resurrection of Christ at the appointed time (Heb 9:26). That prophesied sin covering saved those who lived by faith since the first man was created (Heb 11).

"Carrie" quotes from bible:

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22).

You said, "As far as Adam and Eve are concerned, they saw God himself, they didn't need a bible or a preacher! Duhh!"

Adam and Eve knew God in Spirit, as believers do today. While they 'heard the sound of Him walking in the garden' (Gen 3:8), God is invisible. Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15), and I can bet you don't believe this either, do you?


None of your business 5 years ago

"Carrie":

Adam and Eve knew God in Spirit, as believers do today.

Adam and Eve SAW God and SPOKE with him according to the bible. They didn't just know him in spirit, they SAW him!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Prove that Adam and Eve "SAW him"! God doesn't speak to you? He speaks to me, but then again, that's no surprise.


None of your business 5 years ago

"Carrie"

I stand corrected that Adam and Eve SAW God, however they did walk with God in the Garden of Eden. They did most certainly SPEAK with God. My point is, they didn't ONLY "know God in Spirit", they actually conversed with him according to the bible.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Yes, I understand that. Just like I and other believers converse with God today. Sounds like you haven't been baptized in the Holy Spirit, which, as I said is no surprise. While you are probably asking me all 213 questions listed in your heretical link...I simply cannot spend ALL my time answering you. Do you not have anything to do? I surely do. I was off work today, but won't be the rest of the week, so don't expect me to answer you in a timely manner. I think you have enough to chew on...if your heart is made of flesh and not stone (Ez 36:26).


NUNYA 5 years ago

"Carrie" quotes from bible:

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22).

But what about the passage:

FOR ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

(Romans 3:23) ALL MEANS ALL.

"carrie" First of all, every man has an innate knowledge of God and are without excuse (Rom 1:20).

If that's the case, why does man need a Bible, then?! We should all have this "innate knowledge" and not need to study the Bible. We wouldn't need to spread the Good News.

"carrie": Secondly, unless one rejects the gospel (when heard) or rejects the Spirit of God (Adam and Eve didn't have a Bible or a preacher), he is not guilty, for Christ was predestined to be the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8).

Goes back to my question, why does man need the Bible then? If nobody ever heard the gospel only to reject it, then everyone could be saved! Yipee!

If God "converses" with you like you claim he does, why do you spend so much time studying the scriptures/Bible, why not just listen to God's voice and let him instruct you, no Bible needed. To answer your nosy question, as a matter of fact, I work full time and I don't "expect" you to answer me at all, your answers are not good ones anyway, they constantly contradict one another. Therefore, I won't waste any more of my precious time on your hubs, I will seek untwisted Scriptural answers elsewhere.


Ken 5 years ago

We are used to hearing from you righteous hell mongers who breathe fire and brimstone to stupid and unbelieving sinners.you must really be happy in your delusion of existence of hell.what a twisted kind of happiness,all the best in your journey to heaven.


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Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

NUNYA,

God created Satan as the prosecuting attorney, to tempt us to do evil (James 1:13), to test our faith. God uses this for His glory, for God 'tests' us, but doesn't 'tempt' us to do evil (1 Pet 1:7; 4:12). If Satan had no purpose, he would already be in hell. Jesus, God in the flesh, is the living Word (John 1:14; 1 Pet 1:23). Satan was allowed to tempt Jesus to sin because He was the Son of Man (Mat 4). How did Satan tempt Jesus? Misquoting (by leaving out 'the rest of the truth') the Word of God (Mat 4:6). How did Jesus ward of the Devil? Quoting the Word of God (Mat 4:4, 7, 10).

Jesus died for everyone, and it was predestined to be so since the beginning of the creation of man. However, there comes a time when we will be tempted (by Satan) and tested (by God). We have the Bible written for us, so we can know (as with a contract) what are the words of God. God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). Look what happened to Adam and Eve. The Law of God and the Law of Moses was added (written) because of transgressions (Gal 3:19). They were given to lead us to Christ (Gal 3:24). The Lawless One (Antichrist) and his followers reject Christ (Rev 13:8; Rev 3:5).

By grace we are saved through FAITH (Eph 2:8). Faith without works is dead (James 2:26). Obedience is better than sacrifice (1 Sam 15:22). However, we must not merely focus on the works, for the works in and of themselves do not save us (Eph 2:9). The Seed is given to everyone, but depending on the condition of the hearer’s heart, it can take root or not (Luke 8:4-15). Many people honor God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him (Mat 15:8). Salvation is a two-way street. The Bridegroom calls; the Bride responds. If the Bride says, “no” there is no wedding; there is no consummation (Mat 22:1-14).

Satan disguises himself as an angel of light and pretends to be God. His servants do the same as their father (2 Cor 11:14-15; John 8:44). Those baptized in the Holy Spirit will hear both voices: God’s and Satan’s. While we are given the gift of discernment to know our Shepherd’s voice, we are nonetheless human and until we are strong in the knowledge of the Word, we can be tossed to and fro (Eph 4:14). We must rightly divide the Word of truth in order to stand firm in our faith and not be swayed (2 Tim 2:15; Mat 10:22). The written Word is God’s gift to us; it is a ‘will and testament’, signed with the blood of the Lamb.

Since you believe man has no free will and God saves everyone, this negates the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. In your twisted interpretation, this sacrifice is for everyone whether they believe (have faith) or not. God just merely throws all into the lake of fire for purification. Who needs the blood then? You think all (but a few) will be cast into the lake of fire? How did the ‘few’ get saved? ALL have sinned. There is none righteous, no not one…except Christ (Rom 3:10; 2 Cor 5:21). We are saved by grace through faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6 - notice this chapter lists several patriarchs prior to the giving of the Law), and we can certainly nullify (make void) the grace He so freely gave (Gal 2:21). He is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34); we must choose this day whom we will serve (Josh 24:15) and obey His voice (John 10:27). How do we overcome Satan? By the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony (Rev 12:11).


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Ken, 2 Thes 2:10 tells you clearly that not all will be saved and why: "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Now, read the next verses, since you are accusing me of being delusional: "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

Be as wicked as you wish, for without Christ as your God, Savior and LORD, whether you are a 'good person' or not, you will perish. The Lake of Fire is not a purification, it is the sentence of condemnation. The blood of Christ is our purification, and it must be truly accepted and embraced by each and every one of us, in order to be saved. That salvation will bear the fruit of the Spirit; for if we do not bear fruit, we are not truly saved (Mat 7:16-20; Luke 13:9; John 15:2).


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Marliza Gunter 5 years ago from South Africa

Like I've been telling everywhere, hell is true, I've been there twice..and Sheol is the big brother of Satan meaning death..he has black hair, hard ridged face and is about one head length taller than Satan..Sheol is territorial to the underground, thus the Christians do not normally have to face Sheol in combat, but Satan on the other hand has freedom to move above the earth and create all kinds of sinister plans..


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi Marliza! Your testimony is quite astounding. Death and Sheol (Hebrew)/Hades (Greek) personified is found in Rev 6:8 "I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades [Sheol] was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth."

God bless you!

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