Exposing the False Doctrine of the Trinity "Proof" Texts - Part 1

Part 1
Part 1

This article will examine “proof” Scripture references that “trinity” believers use to claim that Jesus is God. This theme will be addressing an article written by a Trinitarian here,

Who Is the Biblical Jesus? - Part 1


Please refer to the article in the link posted and use it as a reference to examine the “trinity” proof texts that were used by the author to make his claim.

Although I disagree with the writer, it is not my purpose to attack the individual in any way, but respectfully examine his evidence without ad hominem attack. I also encourage those reading that no matter what belief system you may hold to, please be respectful when commenting whether you agree, or disagree.

I realize that the Trinity doctrine is a highly debated subject among many different sects, denominations and religions. I do not have allegiance to any of these, but strive to follow the way of the Ekklesia that adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles as set forth in God’s Word.

I will try to maintain a precedence that is set forth in the original languages of Scripture as the English translations have been tampered with.

I hope to state my case to the contrary with my own evidence and perspective, but in the end it is up to each individual to weigh and test every doctrine for themselves to see what withstands the scrutiny.

I personally believe that the true representation of Jesus Christ cannot be reconciled with the modern Church system as most of “Christendom” worships the “Trinity”

Jesus said,

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. FOR THE GATE IS NARROW AND THE WAY IS HARD THAT LEADS TO LIFE, AND THOSE WHO FIND IT ARE FEW. – Matthew 7:13-14

If the gate is narrow and the way is hard, it would seem that a true followers of Jesus Christ would not be a part of the mainstream Church system with their wide open doors.

The question that must be asked, is the Trinitarian evidence merely circumstantial, or does it have any merit?

The “Evidence” of Elohim

In Genesis 1:26 there is no evidence of a “Trinity,” or a precise indicator that there are three in number.

And God said, Let US make man in our image – Genesis 1:26

Elohim meaning and definition.

A proper exegesis of this verse in context would be what is discoverable in the verse, and those that surround it, NOT forcing an implied notion. Since there is no way to truly know, you cannot conclude by imposing “trinity” bias to that particular verse. Drawing a conclusion that “us” means a “Trinity” is simply wishful thinking.

You may say,



“Each and every time the Hebrew word used is 'ĕlôhı̂ym, or Elohim. This is the plural form of God.”


Elohim is a plural Hebrew word, but it does NOT necessitate a "trinity." Elohim can mean God and his angels, or divine representatives and His qualitative characteristics.

Even though Elohim (God) occurs in the plural form in Genesis 1:26, the use of the word does not indicate an exact plurality of three separate persons called God. God could be speaking to the angels in the heavens.

God says “us” in Isaiah.

And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for US?” – Isaiah - 6:8

Here God is speaking to the seraphim, which could be said the same about Genesis 1:26, but we cannot infer something that we don’t know for sure.

I could take any other verse in Scripture that has “us” in it, but it would be wishful thinking to imply an exact number unless the surrounding verses indicated so.

And now the letter that you sent to US has been plainly read before me. – Ezra 4:18

Does this mean that the “US” in the above verse means a plurality, or “trinity” of precisely three persons?

No, in the surrounding context of Ezra, “us” is many, but the accurate number cannot be fully determined.

The evidence is inconclusive that “Elohim” in Genesis 1:26 is exactly three persons. The fact is there are many other Scripture references that use the same Hebrew word, but reveals God as singular person without forcing a preconceived notion on the verse.

The plural Elohim could refer to the qualitative characteristics of God, such as His wisdom. So again, Genesis 1:26 is not “proof” that Jesus is God.

If you refer to the Scripture verses below, Elohim is described as a singular person who is God the Father.

(Hebrews 1:8-9, Psalm 45:6-7, Hebrews 10:7, Psalm 40:7-8)

The Domain of God

The prefix/suffix of Elohim (EL) is attached to many names in Scripture such as, DaniEL, IsraEL, ELijah, EzekiEL, GabriEL, JoEL and RachEL. Unlike YHWH, the pronunciation and vowels of this word have been preserved. Elohim occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew text with various meanings from Egyptian deities (Exodus 12:12) to "the god of Moab" (1 Kings 11:33). Elohim also refers to demons and seraphim and other supernatural entities (1 Samuel 28:13).

Elohim (God) cannot be applied as a personal name when it refers to something impersonal like man, creature, father, or brother. A name can only given when when context determines it.

Elohim describes a domain of the individual(s) it refers to. The One God, the Father is YHWH; therefore, Elohim would be HIS domain of having ALL power, authority, magnificence, excellence, etc... When Elohim refers to an angel (s), it is delegated as sub-domain of the Father and then to a personal name if identified. In the same manner, when humans are referred to as Elohim ("kings" and "prophets"), they too are a sub-domain of the Father.

What is interesting is that in the Hebrew manuscripts Elohim is never written before the word YHWH, but always after; therefore, the Father is the MOST HIGH and everything else is subordinate in HIS DOMAIN.

Elohim in Genesis 1:26 when speaking of "us" may refer to His dominion and authority etc... To imply "us" means trinity is simply wishful thinking and must be imagined into the text because there is nothing that precisely says “trinity,” or three.

Do we Throw Away our Thinking Caps?

The common response to the confusion of understanding the “trinity” is,


“This is a hard concept for mortal man to understand. Just because we do not understand it does not mean it is not true.”


They will then refer to these verses in Isaiah.

For MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are MY WAYS HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS, AND MY THOUGHTS THAN YOUR THOUGHTS. - Isaiah 55:8-9

For GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION – 1 Corinthians 14:33

The Trinitarian will quote this verse completely out of context. It refers to the ways of the wicked and their unrighteous thoughts contrasted with God’s ways. It has nothing to do with undervaluing our logic and reason. The immediate context and antecedent of these verses reveal this.

Let THE WICKED forsake his way, and the UNRIGHTEOUS MAN his THOUGHTS; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him – Isaiah 55:7

It should be clear who the context of the preceding verse applies to. The irony is that it may apply to them for their “thoughts” concerning the “trinity.”

Is Jesus the Creator from the Beginning?

Colossians 1:16-17 is a popular verse,

FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. – Colossians 1:16-17

This above verse is used to imply that Jesus is God, but again they have missed the following verse that gives the correct context.

And he is the head of the body, the church. He **IS** the BEGINNING, the FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in everything he might be preeminent. – Colossians 1:18

We see here that the context of this verse speaks of the risen Christ in present tense. Jesus Christ ***IS*** “THE BEGINNING,” not WAS THE “BEGINNING.” Referring to Genesis 1:1 would be in the past tense supposing that Jesus was the Creator, but “IS” is in the present tense that refers to the redemption and forgiveness of sins through the risen Christ at that PRESENT time, which BEGAN at his resurrection.

The “beginning” found in the Gospel's and Epistles that refer specifically to Jesus are based on the risen Christ when He was resurrected.

As for you, see that what YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING remains in you. – 1 John 2:24

Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that YOU HAD FROM THE BEGINNING. The old commandment is the word THAT YOU HAVE HEARD. – 1 John 2:7

What THEY HEARD FROM THE “BEGINNING” was that Christ was their Advocate.

And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, so that you should walk in it. – 2 John 1:6

And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one WE HAVE HAD FROM THE BEGINNING—that we love one another. – 2 John 1:5

The BEGINNING OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD. – Mark 1:1

Just as those who FROM THE BEGINNING WERE EYEWITNESSES and ministers OF THE WORD have delivered them to us – Luke 1:2

The Word of God who manifested in the flesh BEGAN at his resurrection and the word spread as the eyewitnesses attested to his victory, which means that all those who believe in his Gospel can become begotten (born again) sons of God too.

The beginning of the new age of grace.
The beginning of the new age of grace.

The Age of Grace in the Last Days

Hebrews 1:2 is also used to "prove" that Jesus is God.

But **in these last days** he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the **heir of all things, ** THROUGH WHOM ALSO HE CREATED THE WORLD. – Hebrews 1:2

If Jesus Christ is the Creator as God, then why does he need to appoint himself heir of all things that he created?

By looking up in a concordance, you will see that “the world” in Hebrews 1:2 does not mean the earth, or the universe. The "world” in Greek is aion, which means “age” that pertains this age of grace.

The text “IN THE THESE LAST DAYS” above, the writer of Hebrews is referring to them at that moment in time. The FATHER is speaking to them through His Son, but is contrasted to the past when God spoke through the prophets in the Old Testament in the preceding verse.

Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ANCESTORS THROUGH THE PROPHETS. – Hebrews 1:1

The context of theses verses mean that “IN THESE LAST DAYS,” Jesus Christ was appointed heir of all things by the Father upon his resurrection by sitting down at the right hand of the Father.

Is the Lamb (Jesus Christ) God?

Revelation 4:11 is used to imply that Jesus is God, but in the very next chapter the distinction is between Jesus Christ (the Lamb) and God.

“You are worthy, O LORD OUR GOD, to receive glory and honor and power. For YOU CREATED ALL THINGS, and they exist because you created what you pleased.” - Revelation 4:11

In the preceding verse it says,


The twenty-four elders fall down and worship THE ONE SITTING ON THE THRONE (the one who lives forever and ever). And they lay their crowns before the throne and say – Revelation 4:10

Now, in Revelation 5, we can see the Lamb (Jesus Christ) who took the scroll from the FATHER, “THE ONE SITTING ON THE THRONE.”

And BETWEEN THE THRONE and the four living creatures and AMONG THE ELDERS I saw a LAMB STANDING, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And HE WENT AND TOOK THE SCROLL FROM THE RIGHT HAND OF HIM WHO WAS SEATED ON THE THRONE. - Revelation 5:6

The Lamb (Jesus Christ) who is between the throne of God and among the elders takes the scroll from the Father who is seated on the throne.

If Jesus is God, then why is he among his brethren instead of on the throne?

The Spoken Word of God

Here is another “proof” verse.

He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was THE WORD OF GOD. – Revelation 19:13

Everything was created by the spoken “WORD OF GOD.” Jesus Christ was created by the Father by His word. The Word was made flesh when He was resurrected, which was the “beginning” of the age of the grace of Jesus Christ. When we become begotten sons of God, we too become the word manifested in the flesh.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to *HIS* GOD AND FATHER – Revelation 1:6

Jesus Christ has a God who is his Father.


If God is Jesus’ God and his Father, then He cannot be God, but the Son of God. Being “God the Son” would contradict the above verse and makes no sense.

Comma Johanneum
Comma Johanneum

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE ARE ONE. - 1 John 5:7

Comma Johanneum

The Trinitarian pet verse is 1 John 5:7 (Comma Johanneum), but it is up to them to provide evidence that it is found in the original manuscripts. It is usually the KJV “Onlyists” who are unwilling to accept the facts on this matter and claim that this verse is “authentic.”

The provided Scripture verses in this article that Trinitarians use as “proof” that Jesus is God must be imagined into the text, out of context, or rely on verses deceitfully added to God's Word. When the surrounding verses of Scripture are “cherry picked” to infer a notion without allowing the context from the original language of Scripture to interpret itself, you can make God's Word pretty much mean anything you want.

IF Jesus is God, the “evidence” is nothing more than preconceived notion must rely heavily on bias ingrained from being indoctrinated in the man- made Church system.

Is the Trinity Symbolic of the Beast?

The Beast is revealed in Revelation 17.

The beast that you saw WAS, and IS NOT, and IS ...and the world will marvel to see the beast, because it WAS and IS NOT AND IS to come. - Revelation 17:8

Could it be that the greatest deception of mankind is modern "Christianity," which is the largest organized religion in the world may be the beast religion.

If you disagree with the evidence provided, what am I missing?

I am not convinced of the "trinity" because it makes no sense and is incomprehensible.


Do you believe the "proof" verses held by Trinitarians withstand scrutiny?

See results without voting

Please proceed to Part two of this series that will continue exploring and analyzing Trinitarian "proof" claims here,

An Examination of Trinity "Proof" Texts - 2



More by this Author


Comments Appreciated 30 comments

graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- I have been following the past three articles closely and it has been very interesting. However, I do need to throw my two cents worth in for a moment. I believe Revelation 1:4 (in part) from Him who IS and who WAS and who IS to come ".... This is a reference to God the Father and any one referring this to be Jesus Christ would, in my opinion be wrong. Clearing in verse 5 it then identifies Jesus Christ separately.

If one looks further for conformation of Rev. 1:4 then all they would need to do is read the same thing almost word for word in Revelation 4:8 (second half) " Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God Almighty, who WAS and IS and IS to come."

Clearly this is referring to God the Father, not Jesus Christ. So I believe Rev. 1:4 and Rev. 4:8 both are referring to God the Father. Based on this information I don't believe the trinity doctrine can be supported by these verses. To do so one would have to take Rev.1:4 out of context.

I don't believe you brought up this point yet, unless I somehow over looked it.

Good article and God bless.


flpalermo 2 years ago

Allow me also to put my two cents in also:

Once again, we have those who want to create God in THEIR own image, as Traditional Pagan Christianity does, and always will.

It is difficult to break away from our “programming” in the affairs of this world, which include religion.

The Trinity doctrine is itself a god which is worshipped by many.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God [the Father] at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, except the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

In the Bible, God the Father reveals through Jesus Christ, the following revelation about Himself:

God [Elohim] is a family.

Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole “family” in heaven and earth is named,

Elohim are two beings which exist in a Father-Son relationship, who are eternal Spirit, uncreated. Both members are referred together as God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [the Father] and the Word was God [family].

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him [Jesus] and without him was not anything made that was made.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God [the Father], who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 4:24 God [the Father] is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God.

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Jesus is not God the Father. He is the son of God the Father. Both are the God Family into which we all can be born.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

Aaron -

You allude to proper "exegesis" when studying and interpreting the scripture. The author of the post you are rebutting (lifegate) displays "eisegesis" in his interpretation of the scriptures.

He chooses not to seek the truth in this matter, rather to defend his position by injecting his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

The Trinity Doctrine is nothing more than a doctrine of man that has been passed down and defended by those who have been given over to their blindness.

6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,

But their heart is far away from Me.

7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,

Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.” Mark 7:6-8

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:14-16


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Graceinus,

Thanks for pointing that out the surrounding context.

*AND* from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. - Revelation 1:5

It is clear as you said that Jesus Christ is separate from verse 4.

What I find interesting is that the beast is described as WAS, IS NOT, and IS, but God the Father as you pointed out is, IS, WAS and IS.

I have not studied deeper into what these distinctions mean, but when I saw the trinity diagram, the IS NOT and IS jumped out.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are appreciated.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Flpalermo,

I believe that Jesus and the Father are of one spirit just as a husband and wife are of one flesh.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become ONE flesh. - Genesis 2:24

But he who is joined to the Lord becomes ONE SPIRIT with him. - 1 Corinthians 6:17

When the Trinitarian points to,

I and the Father are ONE. - John 10:30

They have no understanding except to claim Jesus is God, but what we find later in John as Jesus is praying to the Father is,

That they may ALL be ONE, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that THEY MAY BE ONE even AS WE ARE ONE, I in them and you in me, that they may become PERFECTLY ONE, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. - John 17:21-23

It should be understood that Jesus is not saying he is God, but he is one with God the Father and hopes all mankind will be one in unity with Him too. The Father can live in us just as HE lives in Jesus Christ. We can become sons and daughters begotten of Him by His Spirit just as Jesus was.

God's Spirit is the "Word"of God that dwells among all true believes. We too, who are begotten of the Father, are the lights of the Gospel just as Jesus Christ.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

I believe that we cannot just read our English Bibles and say, "This should be plain to anyone who reads English. The Hebrew only intensifies the English. If we just read the Scripture for what it says, there just is not any way around it."

This statement is from the author in part 2 of "Who is the Biblical Jesus."

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Who-Is-the...

The problem with saying this is that our English language does not convey precisely and accurately what we may think it says. That is why lexicons, interlinear and concordances are crucial in pursuing the meaning and definitions to analyze the words from the original source language. If we fail look at the original language in a deeper way, it will lead to imposing our own eisegesis as you have mentioned into the text.

Thanks for explaining the differences between the two words.

God Bless.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 2 years ago from The Ekklesia

"I will try to maintain a precedence that is set forth in the original languages of Scripture as the English translations have been tampered with."

The tampering of Gods Word started in the garden with Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?"

Later God told Jeremiah 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

The twisting continues to this day, anything to lead us away from God. They even Try to use His only begotten Son to deceive us.

Nice writing

Rich


brownie 18 months ago

Why believe the Bible at all?


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 18 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Brownie,

Here is an article I wrote that may answer your question.

http://hub.me/acBVW


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

You brought out some very helpful points

Thank you for sharing.

To contribute to your great explanation.

We can remember God is eternal, he does not die or was ever born.

1Ti 1:17 Now to the King of eternity(Jehovah), incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

(As stated King of Eternity)

(Byington) translation

Hab 1:12 Are you not from of old, Jehovah? God of my devotion, you will not die. Jehovah, you established him for judgment and planted him as a rock for correction.

But Jesus is different he died .

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn(Jesus) of all creation;

Also consider they could not be same one combined, because their mental will is separate.

Notice !

Joh 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, (not my own will ), but the will of him who sent me.(Jehovah)

Based on this we can see that there are two different beings. Who could not be a trinity doctrin.

Because they are not equal in having the same will, Jesus is instructed by the father.

And Jesus died, he was not eternal,

Next Jesus makes it clear the Father is greater.

King James Version

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for (my Father is greater than I.)

In math we know that greater is not equal

That is truth.

Do we believe the bible or do we believe man made doctrine.

The bible will keep you living.

Doctrins only lead you to a dead end.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 11 months ago from The Ekklesia

Any linguist that studies the Hebrew language knows that there is no true "J" sound in the Hebrew language. To know this and continue to type the man made word Johova confirms you are correct it leads to a dead end and despite anything else you might say no one will take you serious because you chose to perpetuate the false doctrine that God's name is Johova. This puts you in the same group that believe man's doctrine about the trinity. It is a different lie but a lie none the less.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Then why do you not use the Tetragrammaton which is YHWH in over 7000 times in hebrew. To deny the name at all when it was revealed is a dishonor to the Father.

As written to Ex 3:15Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘YHWH, the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.,

The point is you are not recognizing that instaead of criticizing me for using it.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 11 months ago from The Ekklesia

Well to start with the point is not about what I do, I did not added the word Jehovah after quoting scripture from several bibles. I'm sure people that do this don't do research and determine it is wrong, those that do it are just doing what one has been taught to do. The fact still remains despite how one might want to change the subject, there is no "J" sound in the Hebrew language. Long before 1892 people knew that there were no vowels in the Hebrew language yet they were spoken. So to know how to correctly pronounce the word YHWH you would have to know something about actually speaking the language. To pronounce it with a sound that doesn't even exist in there spoken language is nothing but error. If one perpetuates an error in time it becomes a lie. This can be done intentionally or unintentionally that is the choice made by the individual.

On a lighter note A group of crows is called a murder, a group of cats is a clowder or a glaring, a group of geese is a gaggle, a group of baboons is a congress, a group that agree on something that is not true are known as liars.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Where is your support of the Tetragrammaton , if you do not accepted the name JEHOVAH , then why are you not using this at all YHWH. So now explain what is right about that.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 11 months ago from The Ekklesia

I have explained why the group of people that formed a denomination in 1892 or so are wrong about the term Jehovah I don't have an answer for something that has been made important enough to cause division but quite frankly if one doesn't know Christ, according to scripture they will not know His father either, what ever His "real" name is.

2Timothy 2:23-26 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Why you are trying to bring attention to your own negative reason you have not answered the question of the Tetragrammaton.

Until you can explain why you do not recognize God's name first as the Tetragrammaton (YHWH)

You refuse the name completely, not supported scripturally.I have not personally brought up anything about your personal religious beliefs, but now you want yo address mine to dodge the

question.

If you can not answer in all truth, then do not critize the Name of Jehovah /YHWH.


KingdomCome 11 months ago from those of the Ecclesia

More of KandT JW garbage.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

There is nothing garbage about keeping people alive. your opinion means nothing to me but is very disrespectful of the one who created you. You lack that in your example and words .


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 11 months ago from The Ekklesia

I am not the one in error so I have to explain nothing. Because a person believes something that is incorrect doesn't make the truth negative. The beliefs that you have brought up are not your beliefs but that of a religion. I am simply pointing out something that many people, that would include you, do not know the truth of the mater on.

Take the time to find the truth and don't worry about me, I'm not the one in error on this particular matter. Changing this to an issue about me is a diversion tactic that will not get you to the truth of the matter.

To be honest here you are not going to believe anything that I say if it disagrees with what you have been taught.

Here is a good start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRsbSLU9oFA


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 11 months ago from The Ekklesia

About the 13th century the term "Jehovah" appeared when Christian scholars took the consonants of "Yahweh" and pronounced it with the vowels of "Adonai." This resulted in the sound "Yahowah," which has a Latinized spelling of "Jehovah." The first recorded use of this spelling was made by a Spanish Dominican monk, Raymundus Martini, in 1270.

Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much Jehovah's Witness literature, such as their Aid to Bible Understanding (p. 885).


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Rick Rather I pronounce your name correctly I attempt in respect to pronounce it, I am directly giving you attention.

A child also may not be able to pronounce a parents name sufficient, but will that child refuse to accept any part of the name of his mother or Father because he can not pronounced accurately. No ! Jehovah is our Heavenly Father and he knows we are addressing him personally. It is very disrespectful to ignore and just refer to him as God, when satan is rebel a god, and the father of Babylonian deities. JEHOVAH revealed his name to Moses, and Jesus also said, and made his name known as he read from the scrolls.

Joh 17:26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

The point is our creator deserves to be treated with the upmost respect, hiding his name , and saying take no effort to say it , helps satan. Why do you cause trouble about it. Then use the Tetragrammaton.


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Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Consider the importance of God’s personal name. It Identifies him and he wants that

.if not then it would be no Tetragrammaton over 7,000 times in the scrolls,

Jesus also read from the scrolls in the synagogue.

Lu 4:16 He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read.

Lu 4:17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written:

Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,

Lu 4:19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable

year.” old testement: (Isa 61:1, 2The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners, 2 To proclaim the year of Jehovah’s goodwill And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all who mourn,)

Lu 4:20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him.

The scrolls did not miss the name , when Jesus read from Isaiah he had to pronounce the name.

Now what you should find piculair is after his death , and the last apostles they wanted to erase events and change words.

Consider that they the Jews deliberately

Rewrote the scrolls to say what they wished, but they could not change the fact that their where many personal copies made that told the truth. And in the Greek writings the name Jah exist ,

Notice Revelation.

King James Version

Ps 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Byington

Re 19:6 And I heard what seemed as if it were the voices of a great crowd and the sound of much water and the pealing of strong thunders, all saying “(Hallelujah,) because the Lord our God Almighty has come into his reign!

We do as the scriptures and the Angles do We praise his name !


KingdomCome 11 months ago from those of the Ecclesia

Rich- I can understand your efforts but in this case it a complete waist of time trying to explain anything to KandT. She will spew her JW false teachings to anyone who will listen. This is typical of the anti-christ false church system.

Rich, I think it was a good try though.


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Kiss andTales 11 months ago

It amazes me how people seem think they know more about a subject , they attempt to critize with false infomation, if you were correct I would be upset, but I am not because your comment and words do not relate to JW as you would say. I should

Know.


KingdomCome 11 months ago from those of the Ecclesia

Rich- You will notice in the (NKJV) of Luke 4:18 It states The Spirit of the Lord is upon me........ Now in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, used by the JW, it states in Luke 4:18 Jehovah,s spirit........ As you can see the mistranslation by the Watch Tower bible and Tract Societ has used this mistranslation to mislead people . This example is through the NT in the "Holy Scriptures" bible used by JW. The bible used by JW is VERY misleading. Not just on this point but also a number of other words are used in the New World Translation that changes the context of verses. Such as the word "grace" which you will not find in the New World Translation. Another example is Spirit is translated in the New World Translation as Life Force. This again changes the context of the verses. You will find these two words "life force" used throughout "their" bible. All of these mistranslation allows the JW to mislead people to their way of thinking. You will never hear of a JW teach on subject of Grace. This is why I do not and never will trust the teaching of the JW.

In many areas throughout the NT the word Lord, God, Spirit of God is replaced with the name Jehovah and yet the NT was writen mostly in Greek text, the name "Jehovah" was hardly used in Greek text. And yet the New World Translation mistranslates it a few thousand times in the NT.

And if we really what to get picky, God is known by a number of "names" in the OT throughout the Hebrew Tora not "just" the name Jehovah. So why don't the JW use all of them. There is a lot of false teachings on the part of the JW. And the use the New World Translation to do it.


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Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Example if everybody in a baseball game, football game only concentrated on words and never played the game , there would be no games. You are so busy trying to find error , you are not doing what is requested by Jesus. I find that a great distraction untill

Its time to settle all matters.


KingdomCome 11 months ago from those of the Ecclesia

All of a sudden KandT thinks words don't matter. When she's been trying to tell us how wrong we are for not using the name Jehovah and insist we should show respect to His name and made a big deal out of it. She quoted all types of verse in her corrupted New World Translation to try and prove her point. Now she says words don't matter. KandT is one of the biggest hypocrites I've seen in Hub Pages. I've pointed out some of the false teaching of the JW based on their corrupted translation of the New World Translation, now all of a sudden KandT says words don't matter.

Yes I look for error in doctrine because I refuse to be blind unlike KandT


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Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Do you think people are children that can not read for themselfs, do you think no one can make a sound Judgement of what is right and wrong for themselves, why do you choose to attack what I write here and I must say in all truthfulness you do not know this subject in the correct light, you have other religions you could attack but you choose this one , well What Jesus said was certainly the truth you have proven it to be true in your ridicule.

2Pe 3:3 First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires

Jude 17,18 As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.”

You have certainly proven the scriptures to be true, you also have proven what time it is. The last days,

Thank you for that.


KingdomCome 11 months ago from those of the Ecclesia

It seems to me that "2Peter 3:3 and Jude 17:18 fit the JW like a glove.

" Their own desires" through their false teaching.


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Kiss andTales 11 months ago

Ro 3:4 Certainly not! But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar, just as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.”

The tests in life is not proving another wrong

It is proving your relationship with your creator, and giving him the glory. In turn he will grant blessings.

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