Exposing the False Doctrine of the Trinity "Proof" Texts - Part 2

Part 2
Part 2

In Part 1 of this theme, I wrote an article refuting the “proof” texts a Trinitarian author used to claim that Jesus is God who is part of the Trinity. You may want to refer to the first preceding article in the link below before reading further.

Exposing the False Doctrine of Trinity "Proof" Texts - 1

This article will continue to take a closer analyses the article, “Who Is the Biblical Jesus? - Part 2” found in this link below. Please reference it and following along as I will be addressing each of the points the Trinitarian uses to make his claims.

Who Is the Biblical Jesus? - Part 2

In the introduction of the article, " Who is the Biblical Jesus? - Part 2" the author states,


“Jesus either is fully God and fully man, or he is just another created being. Both cannot be true, but yet even within “Christian” groups there is sharp disagreement.”


Right here this statement is a contradiction because fully God and fully man is impossible. Man is created; therefore, cannot be an eternal uncreated God. It also states in Scripture that God cannot be contained, nor is He a man.

So GOD CREATED MAN in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. – Genesis 1:27

But who is able to build him a house, since HEAVEN, EVEN HIGHEST HEAVEN, CANNOT CONTAIN HIM? Who am I to build a house for him, except as a place to make offerings before him? – 2 Chronicles 2:6

GOD IS NOT MAN, that he should lie, OR A SON OF MAN, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? – Numbers 23:19

It doesn't take long to reference a few Scripture verses of many that attest to Jesus being a man.

For there is one God, AND there is one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus. - 1 Timothy 2:5

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man (Adam) how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! – Romans 5:15

The Greek word for "man" is anthropos in these above verses.

The Trinitarian Addition to Scripture

1 John 5:7-8, Comma Johanneum
1 John 5:7-8, Comma Johanneum

1 John 5:7-8

The reference to 1 John 5:7 is the favorite of the Trinitarian. They fail to acknowledge that “the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” was added to Scripture. Almost all textual scholars are in unanimous agreement, and have concluded along with many Trinitarian scholars that these words were added to Scripture to support the Trinity.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. – 1 John 5:7-8 KJV

The Insertion

At this point [1 John 5:7] the Latin Vulgate gives the words in the Textus Receptus, found in no Greek MS. save two late cursives (162 in the Vatican Library of the fifteenth century, [No.] 34 of the sixteenth century in Trinity College, Dublin). Jerome did not have it. Erasmus did not have it in his first edition, but rashly offered to insert it if a single Greek MS. had it, and 34 was produced with the insertion, as if made to order.

— A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Baker Books, Grand Rapids, 1933, reprinted 1960

Some Latin scribe caught up Cyprian’s exegesis and wrote it on the margin of his text, and so it got into the Vulgate and finally into the Textus Receptus by the stupidity of Erasmus.”

— A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Baker Books, Grand Rapids, 1933, reprinted 1960

The testimony of God concerning His Son without man’s added bias agrees with the testimony of the spirit, the water and the blood. Here is the verse without the Trinitarian man-made additions.

For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. – 1 John 5:7-8

The author states,


“We will only use the Scriptures as they appear naturally.”


I could say the same thing and refer to many different Bible versions. All major translations since the KJV have omitted the verse where it does not appear “unnaturally” because it is known that it was never originally part of 1 John in the first place.

Genesis 1:26

As I mentioned in part one of this series that it is impossible to conclude that a Trinity is present in this verse. The Trinitarian author must concede to this point as he stated,


“…word us does not specify the trinity…”


This is true, it doesn’t; therefore, to imply anything beyond this is wishful thinking.

Colossians 1:16-17

The Trinitarian states,


“We know that Jesus was present according to Colossians 1:16, 17.”


The problem here is that he uses the phrase “natural reading” again.


"...but just a natural reading of the verses in context plainly show that Jesus was present."


All because something feels “natural” does not necessitate a correct interpretation.

And he is the head of the body, the church. He **IS** the BEGINNING, the FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that in everything he might be preeminent. – Colossians 1:18

The beginning of the new age of grace.
The beginning of the new age of grace.

The very next verse says that Jesus Christ “is the beginning, the first born from the dead.” “Is,” is not past tense, but present tense at that point in time. The “beginning” does not refer to Genesis 1:1, but when he was resurrected (firstborn from the dead).

(1 John 2:24, 1 John 2:7, 2 John 1:6, 2 John 1:5, Mark 1:1)

Let what you heard from the BEGINNING abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. - 1 John 2 :24

Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the BEGINNING. The old commandment is the word that YOU HAVE HEARD. - 1 John 2:7

And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the BEGINNING—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have HEARD from the BEGINNING, so that you should walk in it. - 2 John 1:5-6

The BEGINNING of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. - Mark 1:1

Isaiah 9:6

The Trinitarian will say,


“This should be plain to anyone who reads English.”

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty GOD (el), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” – Isaiah 9:6

In order to do a proper exegesis of this verse, it would be important understanding the Hebrew language and culture.

The word “God” (el) in Isaiah 9:6 can also be applied to powerful earthly rulers too.

I will give it into the hand of a MIGHTY ONE (el) of the nations. - Ezekiel 31:11

By comparing Isaiah 9:6 (el = “God”) with Ezekiel 31:11 (el = “mighty one”) dispels the Trinitarian bias. If Jesus is “God” (el) then that would make the Babylonian king "God" (el) also.

The word “God” in the Hebrew culture had a much wider range than what most would define “God” to be today. Back then, a man acting on God’s authority can be called a “god.”

Daniel 3:23-25

The Trinitarian’s will allude to the many other verses in the Old Testament saying that the “angel of the Lord” is Jesus Christ, but the fact is there is not one verse in Scripture that directly states so. This Trinitarian must infer an unprovable assumption.

The Trinitarian likes to quote this following verse and says,


“I am sure that those who believe Jesus was just a mortal man have a way to explain away these Old Testament verses, but if applied at face value, they mean what they say.”

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is LIKE THE SON OF GOD. Daniel 3:25– KJV

I can take other Bible translations and quote this verse, which gives more perspective to the text.

He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a SON OF THE GODS.” – Daniel 3:25 ESV

He said, "Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a SON OF THE GODS!" – Daniel 3:25 NASB

When you look at the context of this verse in the proceeding verses, the audience was speaking becomes clear.

And THE SATRAPS, THE PREFECTS, THE GOVERNORS, AND THE KING’S COUNSELORS gathered together and saw that the fire had not had any power over the bodies of those men. – Daniel 3:27

The people of the crowd were idol worshipers and what they identified as the fourth in the fire was like “a son of the gods.” They were not saying, “Hey everybody, that is Jesus Christ who is “God the Son” in the fire with them.” Again, this is wishful thinking as there are no surrounding verses that conclusively determine that Jesus Christ was in the furnace without adding Trinitarian bias and imagined assumptions to it.

John 10:30

The Trinitarian loves this verse, but they fail to understand their “cherry-picked” verse is not what they believe it to be.

I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” – John 10:30

If Jesus and the Father are one means that Jesus is God according to Trinitarian, then we too are “God” according to these verses.

That they may ALL be ONE, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that THEY MAY BE ONE even AS WE ARE ONE, I in them and you in me, that they may become PERFECTLY ONE, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. - John 17:21-23

Is Jesus really saying that because He is one with the Father that he is God?

No, Jesus is praying to the Father in hopes all mankind will be one in unity with the Father just as he is. Today, by God’s grace, we too can be one with the Father just as He is.

Siding with the Accusers

The Trinitarian will say,


“It was at this point that the Jews take up stones to stone Jesus. Why? Because they were accusing Him of making Himself equal with God. They understood what He was saying.”


Have you ever though that the Jewish leaders were lying when making their accusations against Jesus?

“The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, BEING A MAN, MAKE YOURSELF GOD.” - John 10:33

Is this really true?

No, Jesus tells them the real reason why they are going to stone him in the previous verse.

Jesus answered them, “I have shown you MANY GOOD WORKS FROM THE FATHER; FOR WHICH OF THEM ARE YOU GOING TO STONE ME? – John 10:32

Are you going to believe the lies of the Jewish leaders?

Are we to believe that Jesus had a demon too?

Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” The crowd answered, “YOU HAVE A DEMON! Who is seeking to kill you?” - John 7:19-20

It should be obvious that the Jewish crowd were liars, but the Trinitarian wants to use false testimony from the Jewish crowd to support their false claim that Jesus is God. The Jewish leaders cause, or reason to kill Jesus was false. In fact, Jesus gave the real reason why the Jews wished to kill him.

The world cannot hate you, but IT HATES ME BECAUSE I TESTIFY ABOUT IT THAT ITS WORKS ARE EVIL. – John 7:7

Has not Moses given you the law? YET NONE OF YOU KEEPS THE LAW. WHY DO YOU SEEK TO KILL ME?” – John 7:19

Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and DOES NOT STAND IN THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, FOR HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF LIES. – John 8:43-44

The real reason the Jewish leaders wanted to kill Jesus was he exposed who they were as liars and hypocrites!

Are we to side with and agree with liars and hypocrites in a desperate attempt to prove Jesus is God?

Jesus consistently rebuked these men by calling them adulterous and evil people.

It’s ironic isn't it? The Trinitarian says,


“We can believe like the Pharisees and religionists of the day and take the position Jesus was only a man, but they understood what Jesus was saying, “being a man, makest thyself God.” I choose to believe Jesus when in essence said, I am God.”


This is a Trinitarian lie. Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” He did not say, “I am God.” That is putting words in Jesus’ mouth that he did not say and using liars as witnesses to say that Jesus said so.

Why would anyone want to side with people and accept their testimony when it has already been proven that they are liars, hypocrites and murderers?

Any court of law today would throw out any testimony of those who bear false witness.

The problem was that when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one,” the Jewish leaders did not understand what he was saying because they refused to listen to him. If they had listened to him CAREFULLY, they would have understood what Jesus meant when he said he was one with the Father in unity of Spirit, NOT that He was God. Since their minds were clouded, and they refused refused to listen to him, it sounded like Jesus was claiming to be the one true God to their ears.

Matthew 26:64-66

The Trinitarian states,


“The religious leaders of Jesus’ day very clearly understood what He was proclaiming. It was that claim, that He was God incarnate that led to His crucifixion.”


Is this true? Jesus never said, “I said so,” but said, “you have said so,” “he said,” or in an expression of a question, but it was under the impression that he was the Son of God.

And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, THE SON OF GOD.” Jesus said to him, “YOU HAVE SAID SO. – Matthew 26:63-64

He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him. For HE SAID, ‘I AM THE SON OF GOD.’” – Matthew 27:43

Do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘YOU ARE BLASPHEMING,’ BECAUSE I SAID, ‘I AM THE SON OF GOD’? – John 10:36

So also the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, MOCKED HIM, saying, “He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him. FOR HE SAID, ‘I AM THE SON OF GOD.’” And the robbers who were crucified with him also reviled him in the same way. - Matthew 27:41-44

Did Jesus actually say that he was God?

Were his accusers right in claiming that he was making himself out to be God?

Jesus implied that he was the Son of God. He wanted the Father to bring his followers to this conclusion based upon the evidence of Scripture, his life and teaching.

When the Trinitarian says,


“The religious leaders of Jesus’ day very clearly understood what He was proclaiming. It was that claim, that He was God incarnate that led to His crucifixion.”


There is not one Scripture reference to be found where Jesus claimed that He was God. The evidence supports that he is the SON OF GOD.

Son of Man

Lastly, the Trintarian states,


“Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of man. Do we have a discrepancy here? Is Jesus the Son of God, or the Son of man?”


The problem with the Trinitarian doctrine is that they make discrepancies for themselves.

GOD IS NOT MAN, that he should lie, OR A SON OF MAN, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? – Numbers 23:19

What are your thoughts?

Do you still think the Trinitarian claims have any merit, or is it simply inferring preconceived notions into the text of Scripture?

  • Yes, they have merit.
  • No, they infer notions into the text.
  • I haven't decided yet.
See results without voting

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Comments Appreciated 15 comments

Neil Braithwaite 24 months ago

Aaron,

History clearly shows that winning the debate over the Trinity led those men who controlled the “church” into some very serious temptation. That temptation was to actually change the text of the bible to favor their theological position.

The major implicating factors were that these men had the motive, means and opportunity to perpetrate their crime. All these factors have been proven in the case of the early church leaders and even accepted by most trinitarian theologians today.

A good brief synopsis of this account can be found here, along with a list of scriptural text that was affected:

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/textual-...

It should not go without mention that even with these textual corruptions corrected, the Trinity Doctrine still doesn't hold water. And that's probably why these men sought to "prove" their case by deception rather than true interpretation.

Ego still trumps reason among trinitarians today.


Neil Braithwaite 24 months ago

The Jews did not want to kill Jesus because he claimed to be God, the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He claimed to be the Son of God - the one Messiah.

This short video (7+ minutes) shows this to be the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQReQMW_Aw4&list=U...


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 24 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

Thanks for the informative links.

I watched the video concerning why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus.

I believe the reason that Jesus implied that he was the Son of God rather than out-rightly saying it was that he wanted the Father to bring his followers to this conclusion based upon the evidence of Scripture, his life and teaching.

There is no doubt based on this evidence that he is the Son of God.

Thanks for the links for information concerning textual corruptions.

Unfortunately, KJV onlysists refuse to believe their version is fallible. That is why the Trinitarian says,

"To avoid confusion, we will take only what we know to be true – the Bible."

Therefore, anything outside of what their KJV Bible says is "secular."


Neil Braithwaite 24 months ago

Aaron,

I read the "lifegate" HP articles and even left a couple of comments. What I am finding from the vast majority of trinitarians is the cult-like following they display when confronted with any argument against the trinity.

Even the curator of the "lifegate" Hub, William Kovacicis, who is a pastor of a Baptist Cuurch and graduate of Centre Region Baptist College and holds a Doctor of divinity degree through Southern Indiana Baptist Seminary, says his mind is made-up on the issue.

These people remind me of some of my close relatives who are Mormons. I have lovingly and patiently gone over scripture and provided them with ample evidence, but even while they admit that what I have shown them may be true, they still cling to their Mormon faith.

I believe these types of people are the example of those Jesus said were blind to the truth. And it pains me to say, but it seems they are not listening to what Jesus is saying. And if they are not listening, are they not an example of those Jews Jesus spoke with in John 8?

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 WHY IS MY LANGUAGE NOT CLEAR TO YOU? BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO HEAR WHAT I SAY. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? IF I AM TELLING THE TRUTH, WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE ME? 47 WHOEVER BELONGS TO GOD HEARS WHAT GOD SAYS. THE REASON YOU DO NOT HEAR IS THAT YOU DO NOT BELONG TO GOD.”

I site this scripture because I believe that trinitarians have created an idol in their three person god, and are blindly following the doctrines and teachings of man. I fear they have come to the same place as the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus confronted on Matthew 23. From their guarded defense of their doctrines and unwillingness to ignore the clear truth of scripture, I also believe God has given most of them over to their false gods and religion.

I have come to a decision in my sharing the truth with these kinds of people to shake the dust off my feet and move on when they begin to display an attitude of ignorant defense of their false teachings and doctrines.

It's hard for me to speak as bluntly as Jesus did to these people when He says, "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.," but I'm of a mind to begin to garner the courage to begin to quote His words in my parting comments from now on. Maybe this will shock them into opening their hearts to the truth sometime in the future.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 24 months ago from The Ekklesia

Jude 1:14-15 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

I'll share but if I'm not received I'll dust off the feet and wait for the return of Christ as He lead us in the judgment.

I pray that the Holy Spirit gives us discernment as to how bluntly and in your face we should get. Perhaps being able to let off some steam with fellow members of the Ekklesia is enough to keep our fangs hidden where they more than likely should be. But for the Grace of God we could be in the same darkness.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 24 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

Those within the Church system cannot see the forest from the trees. Their indoctrinated minds cannot see anything beyond what they have been told by their clergy. If anyone did some real honest research into the history, origins and worship of the Trinity they would be shocked at what they would find.

I believe the Trinity is one of the greatest deceptions in Christianity; it is their golden calf.

And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “THESE ARE YOUR GODS, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” - Exodus 32:4

Notice something interesting in the next verse,

When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “TOMORROW SHALL BE A FEAST TO THE LORD (Yah·weh).” - Exodus 32:5

Trying to reconcile the Trinity as worship to the one true God is impossible, just as these two above verses cannot be reconciled.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 24 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Rich,

I once believed in the Trinity. It wasn't till I left spiritual Babylon that I could see that I was deceived. Most Christians think that the ancient Israelite's were more idolatrous than people are today, but the fact is the same sins that brought them in to captivity are being committed in the same spiritual manner in the church system.


Neil Braithwaite 24 months ago

Rich -

It wasn't until I left spiritual Babylon that the blinders were lifted from my eyes about not just the trinity but many other things as well.

You are absolutely correct, those captive to the harlot church will fight tooth and nail to defend their lies.


Neil Braithwaite 24 months ago

Aaron,

You'll love this. I was debating with William Kovacic (lifegate Hub curator) along with some of his followers and was answering their arguments about the trinity and this was the comment Mr Kovacic left for me:

"Neil - I prayed much for you last night, and will continue to from time to time. The situation here is that you don't really have anything new to say. Your position is quite clear as I believe mine is as well. So we're done. This is your fair warning notice. Any and all comments coming from you will in the future be deleted."

Mr. Kovacic is a pastor of a Baptist Church in his lifelong hometown. He is a graduate of Centre Region Baptist College and holds a Doctor of divinity degree through Southern Indiana Baptist Seminary.

I make this distinction about "who" Mr. Kovacic is because I have often found that those in "high positions" in the harlot church system seem to be the most adamant and offended defenders of the trinity and spiritual Babylon.

If you read my last several exchanges on his post (#3) you can assume I have been banned from commenting because I was to argumentative and insensitive to someone's feelings. I'll take this "punishment" over being burned at the stake as those leaders in the trinity camp did to their opposition in earlier times. The fact is, bloggers like Mr. Kovacic do this all the time. They look for any reason to eliminate the opposition as soon as the heat gets turned up.

When Mr. Kovacic says, "The situation here is that you don't really have anything new to say" and cuts off any further comments from me, he speaks volumes about where he stands when it comes to being challenged on his doctrinal beliefs. Mr. Kovacic is only concerned with spreading false doctrine in an unchallenged venue. He treats his blog as he probably treats "his" congregation. (Emphasis on HIS)

If there is nothing "new to say" regarding objections to the trinity doctrine, why does Mr. Kovacic write a three part post in defense of the trinity doctrine? Why does he not just say, as far as he is concerned the trinity doctrine case is closed - no comments questioning or challenging the trinity doctrine will be allowed.

I consider it a privilege and a blessing to be rebuked by a sitting "pastor" of the harlot church system.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 24 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN THEM THAT ARE HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WHICH THE *IGNORANT* AND *UNSTABLE* TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION, AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. - 2 Peter 3:14-18

Although our attention is on the Word of God, there are those that will twist the truths that are in them. False teachers are those that distort Scripture to mean something vastly different from the intended meaning.

I have had many say to me, “Judge not, and you will not be judged.”

Does this mean we cannot judge sinful behavior? No, but in the same manner this is the epitome of Trinitarian “exegesis” when it comes to “proving” their doctrine.

I believe that God CLEARLY revealed Himself and his message to his people. There is only one correct interpretation is Scripture. In order to sharpen our skills, we need to study Scripture diligently.

Those in the Church system will twist Scripture to maintain their traditions. The problem with the Trinitarian doctrine is that they base their teaching on obscure Bible texts instead of turning to the many clear texts that deny what they teach.

Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE. – Mark 12:29

Peter says that those who twist Scripture are “ignorant” and “unstable,” and as you are well aware these words go hand in hand.

For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, [being] A DOUBLE-MINDED man, *UNSTABLE* in all his ways. – James 1:7-8

The modern pastor entices those who are immature and vulnerable. Many followers are simply parrots that cannot think for themselves.

The Ekklesia must always be on guard as we have been forewarned that this would happen. We must be like the Bereans and put the teaching of others to the test. Those who teach well will always encourage others to seek the truth for themselves with personal study and walk out any questions asked.

In their case THE GOD OF THIS WORLD HAS BLINDED THE MINDS OF THE UNBELIEVERS, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God. – 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

Jesus therefore answered them, and said, “MY TEACHING IS NOT MINE, BUT HIS WHO SENT ME. – John 7:16

A true teacher of God’s Word is one who stimulates others to study the Word of God for themselves and have dialogue about. “Banishment” and “deletion” are the manifestations of an ego defense mechanism.


Rich kelley profile image

Rich kelley 24 months ago from The Ekklesia

Aaron and Neil

I enjoy your writings and comments. I agree that unless you leave the institutional Church you will be an echo of their system, a man made system. Jesus helped us out when He said daily we are to pick up our cross. I left man made religion about ten years ago. I continue to find baggage that I've drug out of the church system with me. Often I don't even know I'm toting the stuff around with me. I fear if you remain in Babylon no matter how nice you are or what good you think you are doing, the system has made it hard for you to have a relationship with Christ and unless you leave I fear you won't. (base on my own experience)


Gordon 20 months ago

Interesting article. I read also the 1st part. Have you considered these other scripture: Math 2:11; Math 28:9 and Titus 2:13?


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 20 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Gordon,

Thank-you for your comment.

With regard to the two verses that you referenced, I believe you are implying that because Jesus was "worshiped" means that that he is God.

And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped (proskuneo) him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. - Matthew 2:11

And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped (proskuneo) him. - Matthew 28:9

In the culture of Biblical times, people bowed down in “worship” to those that they showed respect, honor and reverence for.

The word for “worship” in the verses you referenced from the NT are prosekynēsan in the Greek, and shachah in Hebrew from the verses OT. It is important to understand that that bowing down to someone and showing honor and respect for them does not necessitate that they are God. In the Bible superiors, kings, Jesus Christ and God were the ones that were deemed worthy of honor and worship.

And they told the king, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed (shachah) with his face to the ground. – 1 Kings 1:23

Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor (shachah), and he blessed the king. – 2 Samuel 14:22

In our modern Western society, we “worship” our authority figures differently than biblical people did back then. The biblical custom of bowing down before someone as an act of worship was an outward expression of honor and respect.

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Paul says in Titus that we are awaiting the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. The Trinitarian will misread the text to mean that we are waiting for our great God who is our Savior Jesus Christ.

We are waiting for the GLORY OF our great God “AND” Savior Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the glory of his Father as stated in Matthew. Jesus is the glory “OF” God, it does not mean that he is God, or part of a Trinity. These verses refer to two beings, “great God” AND “Savior, Jesus Christ" as confirmed in Matthew.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the GLORY OF His Father… - Matthew 16:27


Tim P. 19 months ago

You've done a great deal of research on this topic of the trinity and of Christian doctrine in general. First, we agree that many of the current church doctrines are either outright lies or watered down truth. Second, we agree that those with ears to hear and eyes to see need to get out of the false churches and find the ministries God is raising up to help the saints - those who've already left the false churches and those who will soon do so. Lastly, we disagree on the trinity.

I won't wrestle you regards all the scripture you've referenced. And for what it's worth, some of the scripture used by trinitarians to validate the trinity don't point to the trinity. I'll make mention of only one scripture, that being John 8:58 in which Christ told the Pharisees that "Before Abraham was, I am". Young's Literal Translation, along with almost every other version of scripture translates the Greek present tense "ego eimi" into the English present tense, which is "I am". Now ego eimi IS translated into English perfect tense in John 14:8-9, but that seems to be for clairity...it could certainly be translated as it is in John 8:58, but would be a clumsy read.

At any rate, the Pharisees got really ticked off at Christ for suggesting that he already existed before Abraham did. This fact tell us that Christ is eternal before he was born to the virgin Mary. By no means does this verse itself indicate a trinity, but it clearly tells us that Christ wasn't merely a man - every man is a created being, but Christ said I AM. The Divinity of Christ is, IMO, clearly established in this verse.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 19 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Tim,

As you may know, “Ego ami,” or “I am he” is found in many other various verses throughout the New Testament, such as Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6, and 8. In Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50 and John 6:20 “ego ami” means, “it is I.” In John 8:24 and 28 it means, “I am the one I claim to be.”

However, in John 8:58 “ego ami” is translated as, “I am.” Now, if we were to isolate John 8:58 and simply cherry-pick it, it would seem that Jesus was claiming to be God, the “I am” of the Old Testament, but we must remember all other verses in the New Testament where Jesus used “ego ami,” he was referring to himself as the Messiah of God, not God Himself.

Furthermore, by simply saying, “I am” does not make a person God. Peter, Paul and the blind man in the New Testament used “ego ami” and we do not make any claims that they are God (Luke22:33; Acts 26:29; John 9:9).

The facts are when Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I am,” he used “ego ami,” but in the Greek Septuagint, the actual divine name that was revealed to Moses was “ego ami ho on,” which means, “I am the existence,” “I am the being,” which is also used in Revelation 1:4,1:8; 4:8,11:17 and16:5 to refer to God.

Jesus said he was before Abraham because he had been conceived in the Father, the Father's logos, which was the expression of the Father.

God had finished all His works from the foundation of the world.

.... although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. - Hebrews 4:3

God's Son was conceived in the Father before creation meaning, "Before Abraham was, "I am existed."

Jesus was known and loved before the foundation of the world existing in a figurative sense. He “existed” in the mind of God as the plan for man’s redemption.

He was FOREKNOWN before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you. - 1 Peter 1:20

Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. - John 17:24

Abraham “saw” the day of Christ and a city that was to be built in the future. That day “existed” in his mind long before Jesus Christ was born. He didn’t mean that he would be literally there to see it, but “saw” it by faith.

Your father Abraham rejoiced that HE WOULD SEE MY DAY. He saw it and was glad.” – John 8:56

For he was LOOKING FORWARD to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. – Hebrews 11:10

Lastly, it is an assumption that the Jews picked up stones because Jesus was claiming to be God. Many times Jesus accused them of not listening to him and calling them liars. It should be obvious in John that they were seeking false testimony against Jesus, but Trinitarians do the same thing and rely on the false witness of people who are deemed liars and do not listen. At the trial, the High Priest in clear terms said, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (John 26:63). If Jesus were claiming to be God, then he would have most certainly been asked that question.

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