We Are Not Living in the Last Days

The Prophecy of the Destruction of the Temple, James Tissot (1836-1902)
The Prophecy of the Destruction of the Temple, James Tissot (1836-1902) | Source
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Introduction

  • Mat 24:3 YLT And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

Christ's return was to take place at the culmination of the last days of the age. It is therefore important not only to identify the timeline of 'the last days', but also 'the age' in question.

The last days neither referred to the end of time, nor to the end of the world. The last days were those prior to the end of the Old Covenant Age in AD 70. Allow me the opportunity to explain.

The Last Days

Do you believe we are living in the last days?

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Old Testament Prophecy

Moses and the Last Days

  • Deu 31:29 KJV For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

Moses prophesied to the Children of Israel that in 'the latter days' of the Old Covenant Age 'evil will befall you’. Old Covenant Israel would provoke the Lord to anger.

Daniel and the Last Days

  • Dan 2:28 KJV But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

Nebuchadnezzar's dream revealed the kingdoms that would rise before the appearance of the Messiah and the establishment of the Kingdom of God. The final empire prior to Christ’s advent was the Roman Empire, and Daniel referred to that period as 'the latter days'.

In my opinion, we are not living in 'the last days' or 'the end times'. The Church does not need to 'hold the fort' desperately awaiting rescue from the enemy's horde. Christ defeated His enemies exactly as and when He said He would.

The Prophet Joel

The Prophet Joel, James Tissot (1836-1902)
The Prophet Joel, James Tissot (1836-1902) | Source

Joel and the Last Days

  • Joe 2:28-31 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel’s prophecy was to Old Covenant Israel about events ‘before the great and the terrible day of the LORD', which took place in AD 70. His prophecy is irrelevant to Christians 2800 years later!

Hebrews1:2

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Did Jesus Live During ‘the Last Days'?

Yes He did!

The Writer to the Hebrews and the Last Days

  • Heb 1:1-2 KJV God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

  • Heb 8:13 KJV In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Epistle to the Hebrews c AD 65 preceded the culmination of the Old Covenant. The waxing away of the Old Covenant reached its consummation with the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews in AD 70.

  • Heb 9:26 YLT since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;

The writer to the Hebrews said they were living at the ‘end of the world’ (King James Version), or ‘the full end of the ages’ (Young's Literal Translation). Thereby, meaning the end of all the preceding ages.

For Example:

Antediluvian, Postdiluvian, Patriarchal, and Old Covenant.

Obviously, he was not alluding to the end of this physical world, he was writing to Jewish believers who lived during the Old Covenant Age.

The theme of the Epistle to the Hebrews consists of a series of comparisons between the Old Covenant passing away and the arrival of the New Covenant that will never pass away.

Paul and the Last Days

  • 1Co 10:11 YLT And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come,

Audience relevance is vitally important, Paul told the Corinthians ‘the end of the ages did come’ in their lifetime; he was not writing to Christians 2000 years in the future.

Peter and the Last Days

  • 1Pe 1:19-20 WNT but with the precious blood of Christ--as of an unblemished and spotless lamb. 20 He was pre-destined indeed to this work, even before the creation of the world, but has been plainly manifested in these last days for the sake of you who, through Him,

Peter wrote that Jesus shed His precious blood ‘in these last days', further affirmation that Jesus lived during the last days!

John and the Last Days

  • 1Jo 2:18 YLT Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

This Scripture presents a considerable problem for Dispensationalism since there are no hours after 'the last hour’, how can a millennium on earth follow after the last hour?

John narrowed the imminence factor to the last hour when he wrote 2000 years ago saying the last hour had come, yet there have been many hours since; he was actually referring to the last hour of the Old Covenant Age not to the end of time.

The Descent of the Spirit

The Descent of the Spirit, Gustave Doré (1832-1883)
The Descent of the Spirit, Gustave Doré (1832-1883) | Source

Fulfilment of Old Testament Prophecy

The Acts of the Apostles and the Last Days

  • Act 2:16-20 KJV But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

'this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel' Peter quoted Joel’s prophecy on the Day of Pentecost to warn his fellow Jews that they were living in the last days prior to 'the great and notable day of the Lord'.

'And it shall come to pass in the last days' Even although Peter declared his generation was living in 'the last days' and witnessing the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy, Dispensationalism insists this prophecy is still unfulfilled. To proclaim the Day of Pentecost was the birthday of the Church, and we are living in the last days of the so-called Church Age, is to fly in the face of Scripture. If Dispensationalism is correct, then the whole 2000 years of the 'Church Age' has consisted of the last days of the 'Church Age'!

Consider also, since Jesus' ministry was during 'the last days'...Hebrews 1:2, then 'the last days' existed prior to the Day of Pentecost! Therefore, the last days clearly applied to the Old Covenant Age.

The Day of Pentecost was not the birthday of the Ekklesia; it was the empowerment thereof, by the coming of the promised Holy Spirit...Joel 2:28-32.

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Conclusion

The 1st century Church lived during a transition period called 'the last days'. Not until that period ended would the saints enter into the fulness of the New Covenant Age.

  • Eph 1:21 YLT far above all principality, and authority, and might, and lordship, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in the coming one;

Christ's generation lived during the Mosaic Old Covenant Age and eagerly awaited the Messianic Age. The New Testament describes these two ages as 'this age’ and 'the coming one'.

Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension occurred during the last days of Old Covenant Israel, which ended at His return with the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in AD 70.

There is no doubt we live in troublesome times and war is not outwith the realm of possibility. However, we are not living in 'the last days' or 'the end times' described in the Bible.

Jesus kept all His promises!

What do you think?

Alexander Gibb

© 2011 Alexander Gibb

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Comments 69 comments

Jen Buczynski profile image

Jen Buczynski 5 years ago from Buffalo, NY

To be sure, all of the Apostles all also believed they were living in the last days. And surely if Peter in his sermon in Acts 3 believed he was living in the last days (the Old Covenant definitely being completed) then we are also in the "last days" or "End times".

(While waiting for your response and explanation to your belief that Revelation's predictions are complete, I thought I'd check out your other hubs! hehe :) )


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 5 years ago from UK Author

Jen Buczynski

Thank you for your comment.

My understanding is that the 'Last Days' and the 'End Times' were fulfilled by AD 70 and applied to the end of the Old Covenant Age.

Luk 1:33 KJV And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

There are no 'Last Days' or 'End Times' of the so called 'Church Age.'

Heb 13:20 KJV Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

With the demise of the Old Covenant Age, the New Covenant Age was fully ratified and it is everlasting.


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 5 years ago from Wales, UK

I too have been brought up with the dispensationalist view and the Church's mass hysteria on the subject with all the nonsense about microchip implants required to do your weekly shopping.

More and more I'm inclined to agree with the sort of view points you are presenting. I must admit I have never searched on the subject of latter days or day of the Lord in the OT to see what Biblegateway spits out. Perhaps that's a good Hub topic for another day.

A key topic though is Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the statue. The Gold head being his kingdom, the silver upper torso the Medes-Persian, the bronze belly being Alexander the Greek's and the legs and feet of iron being Rome. Now the Church likes to split the Roman one into the shins and calves being 2000 years ago, and the feet of iron and clay being a revived Roman Empire out of the EU in the near future. Nonsense. Rome fits iron and clay as it was never a unified Empire, but instead each people group ruled over by Roman governors. Now Daniel said that the statue would be smashed by the rock which then grew to be an everlasting kingdom that covers the Earth. This rock is Jesus during His ministry and since His Kingdom has been growing and will do until the whole Earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as in Isaiah 11:9 and Habakkuk 2:14.

I like your writing.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 5 years ago from UK Author

Disappearinghead

Thank you for your comment.

I agree with your comments, in my opinion there are many aspects of Dispensationalism that just don't make sense.


voice of one profile image

voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you see expressions in the Scriptures such as “the last days” or “the latter years,” you are studying events that will happen in the last two days of this age before the return of Jesus upon the Earth.

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Peter 3:8). It will be seven days, meaning seven thousand years, from the fall of Adam to the eternal ages to come.

The book of Genesis shows that God created the Earth for man in six days. Then He rested the seventh day. This is important to understand because it explains God’s timetable for Bible prophecy. According to Scripture, Jesus will return to Earth to set up the seventh day, or one thousand years of peace. If we remember 2 Peter 3:8, then we understand that four of the six days happened from the fall of Adam to the Cross of Jesus. We are now in the last days, meaning the last two days of prophecy before Christ’s return to the Earth.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

voice of one

Thank you for visiting and leaving a comment on my Hub.

In your comment you quote 2 Timothy 2:15, inferring that I am not rightly dividing the word of truth. However, you don’t actually explain where I may have misunderstood the Scriptures I quote to support my view.

2Pe 3:8-9 KJV But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The scenario you describe and support with only one verse of Scripture takes 2 Peter 3:8 out of context. Peter was answering the scoffers who claimed the Lord was ‘slack’ concerning His promise, he was not giving a mathematical formula for calculating God’s timing of prophecy.

Peter simply stated that to the God of eternity, time has less relevance and sense of urgency to Him than it does to mortal man, who has a very limited life span by comparison. God would fulfil His plan and purpose according to His good pleasure.


JewishNumerologyIsImportant 4 years ago

Voice of one,

You would find it helpful to study Jewish numerology and apocalyptic literature. It will help you understand the book of Revelation in the context which John wrote it on the island of Patmos.

Searchinisany,

Good article. And nice refutation of a scripture taken out of context. Great scholarship! A+!


You deleted my comment!!! 4 years ago

Where did my comment go about apocalyptic literature?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Voice of one

Thank you for reading and commenting on my Hub. I look forward to researching your suggestion.

Thank you.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 4 years ago from El Paso TX

For the record the Book of revelations was written by John approx. 95 AD (that's 25 years after The Jewish dispersion of 70 AD)...For the record the disciples asked Jesus "when is the end of the world and the sign of his coming" ? jesus answers using 35 verses and remember this, he didn't come back in 70AD so the jury is still out. One phenomenon that is in our generation that hasn't been around since 70 AD is the return of the jews as a nation again which happened in 1948. If the nation is literally back then literally everything written in God's word can be done literally related to them and certainly to the world as well.

We are suppose to be not just using his name but we ought to be hearing his words...all of them. Unfortunately I am finding out how bad our hearing has gotten. Perhaps it's our turn to be tested and why not?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

greg4hope

Thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my Hub. I respect your opinion and look forward to reading your Hubs.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 4 years ago from El Paso TX

There is plenty of new and old testament verses that make it clear that biblical prophecy has plenty of unfilled events yet to occur. One of the most overlooked chapters in scripture is Romans CH 11. It is called the "the olive tree parable" but it is far more than a parable. Apostle warns Gentiles In verse 25- 27 "I which not brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved, as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my COVENANT unto them (Israel), when I shall take away their sins!"

Perhaps this covenant was "hid" because of our doubts. Perhaps it is us blinding ourselves to portions of God's word just like Israel blinded themselves with unbelief. There is plenty of false doctrine/ theology that after almost 2,000 years of waiting for Christ has obscured the obvious. There are honest mistakes in using rational opinion but still they may miss the point.

I have often asked the question in my prayers to God this: " Why have the Nation of Israel received no glory for their blood, sweat and tears as inspired by their relationship with God yet by their error were we, the Gentiles, saved without being put to the test as they were"? This is what the Holy Spirit has allowed me to see, but only because I asked the question. In it's simplest form it is called "In all Fairness.....Such is the Lord's Righteousness" Israel's return should be a Rose before the churches but it is treated more as a Thorn which is how the world sees it also. The Lord does ask the chuches who side are we own......the world perspective or God's Word perspective. I you assure they do not agree! In Christ love.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

Thank you for your contribution to my Hub.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 4 years ago from El Paso TX

Searchinsany, If we don't get the Righteousness of God right per the scriptures you won't get the technical aspects of God's prophetic word right. It is written "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and then all these things will be added unto you". Matt 6:33. There are several levels of Righteousness but seldom do churches examine this keyword in the gospel. That's why prophets have to be called by God to preach it for they are known as preachers of God righteousness.

Based on your article it is obvious I am not in agreement with it. You may be sincere in attempting to understand "last days" but there is much more in scripture that you are not considering. God's word is timeless and yet quite pertinent in any given setting. However ,Jesus address to The Seven Churches in the Book of Revelations issues a warning to the church community that it needs to repent. How sad many of today's christians haven't even done that in the first place. And then there are those who have forgotten their first love (Jesus). In other words, they are not looking for Jesus to come and have a 100 different reasons why.

Now we have nuclear weapons....biological weapons that can destroy the earth and bring life to it's end if we ever use them. Everything he have built up can come tumbling down! It's only a matter of time. Perhaps that's what God has been waiting for.....such is His Grace and with the Book of Revelation already written He knew man of sin would self destruct . Israel is His time piece even unawares to them but we as Christians should understand God's "Fairness Principle" which is First the Jew with the test and Now the Gentile (Arab, African, Caucasian, Asian all in others God created and require their belief). It is biblcally called judgement of the nations. Stay tune and know the fullness of Christ mission on Earth.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

Thank you for your comment.

Although you are not in agreement with my understanding of the Last Days, I hope we can agree to differ. I am sure there are many other topics that we can agree on.

I look forward to reading your Hubs in the future.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 4 years ago from El Paso TX

I am very new with this Hub thing or any social media so bear with me as I learn the process. I read hubs but just learning how to create Hubs effectively...so bear with me and thanks for the kudos...I will do the same.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

I joined Hubpages a year ago and I still have a lot to learn. It is a brilliant media, so stick with it.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Searchinsany, you are far more gracious and patient than I am. I could learn a lot from you. :0)

Keep doing your "thing", because I, too, have noticed the things you so eloquently bring to light. It takes a brave soul to leave the security of the crowd in order to get a better look around. And, you are a brave soul.

There are billions of people out there with millions of differing opinions. Since they all cannot be right one must search for the truth and sometimes that journey takes us away from church tradition and popular perspectives.

Be well, my friend, and best wishes to you and yours!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

C J

Thank you for your comment, you truly have a ministry of encouragement.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Happy first year anniversary, Searchinsany!!! I pray that Hubpages, the world, and even myself, get to celebrate many more years with you. You are truly an international treasure! :0)


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK Author

C J

Many thanks, the past year on Hubpages has been a wonderful experience.

I have met some lovely people and you are top of the list!


D R L 2 years ago

Please keep up the great work ,I believe dispensational ism has really paralyzed the church.The church has become schizophrenic on one hand it wants to transform the world on the other, it proclaims there's no hope cause the end is near.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

D R L

Thank you for your encouraging comment. I agree, your point is a valid one.

GB


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

It has been awhile but this showed up in my email and I read over the Hub and some of it's comments. What's going on after the last two years not and the many tears we now see on TV around the world. Has things improved or are the "last days" beginning to even take a greater possibility or reality as the scripture declares?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

Thank you for your comment. I understand your point of view.

In this Hub I explain from the Scriptures what I believe concerning the last days. Can you show me from the Scriptures where I am going wrong?

The dreadful things happening today will continue because of 'mans' fallen nature. As in previous generations there will be those proclaiming it is the 'end times'.

In my opinion, the 'last days' described in the Scriptures happened at the end of the Old Covenant Age.

Regardless of our fears or feelings, God is on His throne and our trust is in Him.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregbforhope

I haven’t posted your comment on Romans 11 of a couple of days ago because it is similar to your comments posted here two years ago.

My Hub entitled ‘The Elect, the Remnant, and the Israel of God’ will provide my view on Romans 11.

I would be interested to know from the Scriptures where you think I have gone wrong with this particular Hub.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

You over generalize the term last days. There are several references in scripture that impacts the world. You have last days…end times…latter days….in that day. Christ and the Apostles continues the reference to these terms clearly still speaking future events. They use terms also such as the Day of Christ……the Sound of the Trump etc. The Book of Revelation is written in 95 AD which is 25 years after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The book addresses the Churches and continues to also address the world meaning all of it's inhabitants and the earth. Also meaning future yet and certainly leaving the door open for some Old Testament prophecies also to be fulfilled at that time.

You will never find the term Antichrist in the Old Testament because Christ himself had not come yet. References to this evil person is called the "beast" and mostly found in the Book of Daniel. His charater is given and enhanced more in Daniel than any other book outside of the book of Revelation. Daniel Ch 8 "four horns revealed" which I think are part of the ten toes…ten kings…ten nations conglomerate. Also Daniel Ch 11 provides his key conquest which also identify his nation.

Your analysis seems to miss some very important interpretation given by the angel Gabriel concerning the Ten Toes. This set up is dramatically different than the iron legs which has no clay. I believe the the Four Horns provide the clue to part of the Ten Kings…Nations…Toes. Please read below for clearly this has not happened……yet!!

Daniel 2:41–45

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 For as much as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregbforhope

Thank you for your comment.

Quote ‘You over generalize the term last days. There are several references in scripture that impacts the world. You have last days…end times…latter days….in that day.’

This Hub is a study of the ‘Last Days’ and in it; I present from the Scriptures references to the ‘Last Days’ to support my view. This is the method I employ in all my Hubs whatever the topic.

Quote ‘Christ and the Apostles continues the reference to these terms clearly still speaking future events.’

If we keep to the topic, prove from Scripture where Christ and the Apostles teach that the ‘last days’ apply to 2000 years in the future. The day of Christ and the last trump happened at the great and terrible day of the Lord in AD 70, which was future but still within the lifetime of the Apostles generation.

Quote ‘The Book of Revelation is written in 95 AD which is 25 years after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.’

My Hub ‘The Book of Revelation Was Written Before AD 70’ supports from Scripture why I believe in the pre-AD 70 date, what support do you have for your statement?

My other Hubs cover most of the other points you raise, I find it important to stay on topic and to resist the temptation to digress.

Please feel free to read and comment on any of my Hubs.

GB


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

Below is a biblical scripture discussion concerning the temple to be destroyed. Jesus also declares to them that he will build his temple in three days. They find this incredulous. But he is speaking of His Church not a building and he does give a "time" for the building process. For it is to be in three days.

For the Jews they fail to grasp what Jesus was saying and to be honest all of us would. But the Holy Spirit tells us a day of the Lord is as a thousand years. Technically, a Jewish year is based on 360 days multiply a thousand years = 360,000 days divide by our 365.25=985.6 years per day of the Lord. 985.6 times 2 days of the Lord = roughly 1971.2. Technically we are now in the third day effective 1972, which could be at the beginning (and certainly seem so since Israel is back in 1948 as a nation) or could be at the end of the third day. But how ironic, this unusual reference fits with everything else we see.

Read John 2:16-21

16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

If we read in context John 2:16-21, we will discover:

Joh 2:18 KJV Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

The Jews asked Jesus for a sign of His authority, He had caused outrage when He cleansed the temple. The sign was the resurrection of His body after three days.

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jesus referred to His physical body, not to the Church.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Neither the Jews nor the disciples understood the full meaning of what He said.

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus’ physical body was the sanctuary of God; He is the anti-type of the temple. Colossians 2:9.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

After the resurrection on the third day, the disciples then remembered and understood what Jesus prophesied concerning His death and resurrection.

Since this portion of Scripture is not regarding the Church, your proposition fails.

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gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

Your answer does not surprise me but my proposition does not fail. It still continues as it is because he Jesus is most accurate and the Holy Spirit gives us the wisdom. The Holy Spirit would have spoken of his resurrection but He did not for he spoke of the "temple ". And this is more involved and fully explained as his Church and the time it would take to build it. Clearly they would have even be more aghast if he said 2,000 (3 days of the Lord) years his Church (temple) would be present after the destruction of the Jewish temple. This would have exceeded the total time of Israel's own temple by far and that is the greater power of Christ at work!

The "temple" of Christ or God in Christ is partly defined for us in Ephesians 2: 19-22 " Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners but fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God; And built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone; in whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto a holy temple in the Lord; In whom ye are also builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit"

This is the full scope of the temple building process and Christ was firmly aware of that. Many times scripture can have a valid dual meaning for certain truths and even events. In this case, Christ was resurrected in three days fulfilling a certain context to the Pharisees unbelief. But the "chief cornerstone " by itself does not make a temple. It certainly is for the church the most critical but is not a finished temple..if you will! Again there is the rester reality of His words and the peculiar timetable we see when using hindsight to aid in our 20/20 vision.

Genuine study of God's prophetic word requires Time to unlock a few mysteries. So it was for the Jews and now it is also for the Gentiles to understand the eternal nature of God to forecast into a future no one can see in the present until we get to that appointed time in that future. We ought to benefit from the Jews miscues but it is clear many are about to make the same mistake on the Gentile side due to their own act of self preservation at all cost.

I don't suspect this will win you over…so we can agree to disagree. Hindsight can give a clearer vision to our foresight if we allow it!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

Quote ‘The Holy Spirit would have spoken of his resurrection but He did not for he spoke of the "temple ".’

I am surprised that you are impervious to the simple explanation of John 2:16-21, it is straightforward, when read in context. I have not encountered your understanding of this portion of Scripture before, and I am interested to know and read your source. The above quote is quite astounding.

Quote ‘And this is more involved and fully explained as his Church and the time it would take to build it.’

To use the three days between the death and resurrection of the Lord to create a mathematical formula for the time span of the Church is a very unusual concept; Scripture does not support the suggestion that the completion of the Church will be in a period of three thousand years, and in 1971, the third thousand began.

Quote ‘But the Holy Spirit tells us a day of the Lord is as a thousand years. Technically, a Jewish year is based on 360 days multiply a thousand years = 360,000 days divide by our 365.25=985.6 years per day of the Lord.’

2Pe 3:8 KJV But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Peter did not say a day is a thousand years with the Lord, he wrote ‘with the Lord as a thousand years’, the assumption that a day is actually a thousand years lacks credibility, and is not a sound basis for doctrine.

In my Hubs profile, there are links to my Hubs on my understanding of the Church, perhaps you might read and comment:

Almighty God and the Lamb is the Temple

Why Did Jesus Never Mention a Millennium Temple?

Jesus ‘The Branch’, His Title, His Throne, and His Temple

The Elect, the Remnant, and the Israel of God

GB


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

The Jews had to deal with a lot of unusual things as well about what the scripture said about the coming of a messiah. Hanging from of a cross was one of them….bringing salvation to the Gentiles is another. Waiting for more than a thousand years for a messiah to deliver them wash another. Only to reject Him when he comes was quite mystifying. They miscalculated who Jesus was because of their own selfish desire.

Is that something unique to them or is that same problem on the Gentile side even within the many churches across America? Righteousness is to be served because God is righteous and his judgments are without fault. Are the gentiles to never be tried as Israel was concerning the realities of who our God is? Your assumption throws all of that "judgment of the nations" as the bible speaks it, out of the window. All is done and the rest of us (gentiles) can go on happily ever after.

The time concept is based on Jewish years which was given them by God. It is their clock that God used when biblical events were fulfilled in Israel history during the 1400 BC up to Christ. It isn't isolated or guess work it's pertinent to the template God developed with Israel. With Israel back so is the date cycles of the book of Leviticus.

In the Book of Revelation in chapter 11 & 13 there are two areas defining 42 months each. 42 months times 2=84 divide by 12 months = 7 Years. What another coincidence concerning the Daniel 9:27 "one week" reference which biblical scholars agree is 7 years.

Rev 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months"

Rev 13:5-6 "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name and his tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven"

There words are written in 95 Ad and again 25 years after the Jewish Temple was brought down in a day by the Romans in 70 AD. These words look forward and support the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:15 " When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whose so breadth , let him understand). "

God of Israel is preparing to prove to Gentiles who don't believe his allegiance to modern Israel is per the Word. Here is a word that the Holy Spirit breathed on me:

"Satan whispers "Did God really say he would restore Israel?"

I proclaim emphatic by the Word that it does state it with Yes..Yes..Yes!

God is indeed standing the Nation up and the world refuse to believe.

And even the churches contend with God and consider it not.

Therefore who side are we really on Church….The Word or the World?

Shall it be what we think or shall it be what actually can be seen…

And yet we refuse to follow God in it?

So it was with Jesus before Israel and so shall it be with Israel before us.

Religion in all is intellect will not provide The Truth.

God will prove it and this is the mighty God we serve. " END


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

In your comments I perceive that you separate Jew and Gentile, if I am correct, this is contrary to the Scriptures.

Gal 3:27-28 KJV For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

The 'gentile church' is the invention of Dispensationalism and is unscriptural.

1Co 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

By reintroducing the division between Jew and Gentile, this concept reverses the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:12-15 KJV That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

A Quote from Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible

Ephesians 2:13 ‘Who hath made both one - Both Gentiles and Jews. He has united them in one society.

And hath broken down the middle wall - There is an allusion here undoubtedly to the wall of partition in the temple by which the court of the Gentiles was separated from that of the Jews; see the notes and the plan of the temple, in Mat_21:12. The idea here is, that that was now broken down, and that the Gentiles had the same access to the temple as the Jews. The sense is, that in virtue of the sacrifice of the Redeemer they were admitted to the same privileges and hopes.’

The result of the division is not only a gentile church, but also a millennium temple that includes the reintroduction of Old Covenant Law and Offerings, for example, the Levitical priesthood, animal sacrifices, and circumcision! This is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

My Hub ‘Why Did Jesus Never Mention the Millennium Temple’.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

For the salvation of the soul in and through Christ there is no separation. That is true for the members of faith in Christ, for this is His Body and there is no distinction. However, for those who study prophecy and realize that there comes a time as written in Romans Ch 11: 25 "For I would not brethren that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits (interesting conclusion) , that blindness has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Also this chapter 11 of Romans begins with the question "Has God cast away his people who He foreknew ?'…God forbid!

After the "fulness of Gentiles" is reached and I believe the rapture will indicate that then the world is without a Church and sin runs rampant and the Antichrist (gentile) gains momentum. Israel as a nation is in unbelief about Christ and so is every other Gentile nation. Here is where the distinction is defined and noted by God. Here is where God's prophetic word moves in utter clarity. It is Israel the nation, God uses to reflect the Life of His Word among the nations and people of unbelief in a perfect parallel to how Jesus also was before Israel in their moment of testing.

I ask you my friend as Romans 11 declares a redemption of the children of Jacob (Israel), who are they being saved from?

If you are going to study biblical prophecy, you have to take the bitter with the sweet. You have to seek to understand God's righteousness which has several inclination of which one is "fairness". The principle of fairness, for when an instructor gives you a test should the instructor also test everyone else in the class? We as Christians should be fully aware of this but our hearts get in the way and now so many walk in their pride unable to see God's word in the light and the intent it was meant.

Romans Ch 11 issues a warning to this reality whenever it should come. I assure you fellow friend, it has come! God's grace has given us 2,000 years and who are we to argue his point!! Clearly it is a covenant to Israel as well as to the Church and written in the descriptive term of Gentile/ Jew identity. This is not the only place such descriptive terms are used but certainly the most the potent. God thoughts are higher than ours as high as the heavens above the earth!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

Rom 9:6-8 KJV Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul clearly taught that Israel after the flesh was not true Israel. He revealed the existence of national Israel and spiritual Israel. The former was ‘the children of the flesh’ and the latter ‘the children of the promise’. National Israel represented the Israelites by blood alone, while 'spiritual Israel' is of Abraham’s seed, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 11:5 KJV Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

National Israel believed all born of Jewish blood were saved by birthright, they felt secure because they were the children of Abraham and therefore in the covenant of promise. However, only spiritual Israel is the elect, the remnant, the Israel of God.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

Just like all christians believed they are saved simply due to membership of a church and so they feel secure as children of God and as spiritual Israelites. Though adopted into the promises they often seek to replace the natural born. For that will present it's own problems of misconception. However, only "born again" Christians are truly saved and are the remnant among the gentiles for they will hear the voice of God and know his wisdom. The rest will be envious, jealous , boastful and conceited thus are the Tares among the Wheat. This is the other side of the coin and the Cross!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

Quote 'However, only "born again" Christians are truly saved and are the remnant among the gentiles for they will hear the voice of God and know his wisdom.'

Both Jew and gentile must be born again to enter into the Kingdom. God does not have a different means of salvation for the Jewish people, as some scholars suggest. There is only one way of salvation for all and that is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

That is what the Jews thought before Christ came along and now that is all we want to think despite the fact that God Himself has restored Israel before the Gentiles. And it is Zion the Deliverer who will indeed save them due to the very real threat of a nations of gentiles set to destroy them. Hear these words utter by the Holy Spirit thru the prophets of Israel:

Daniel 12:1 "And at that time shall Michael the great price which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered…

Micah 4-11-12 "Now also many nations are gathered against thee that say…Ler her (Israel) be defiled and let our eye look upon Zion. But they know not the thoughts of the Lord…neither understand they his counsel, for he shall gather them as sheaves into the floor."

Zechariah 8:13 "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen , O house of Judah and house of Israel; so will I save you and ye shall be a blessing, fear not!"

Ezekiel 38:16 " And thou (many nations) shalt come up agaist my people of Israel as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the Latter Days and I will bring thee against my land (due to their unbelief) that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee(Israel) , O Gog before their eyes"

Joel 3-1-2 "For behold, in those days, and in that time when i shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem. I will also gather all nations and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage whom they have scattered among the nations and parted my land."

You ought to read Prophet Joel book and Chapter 3 especially. Salvation will come the way you say but at the expense of whose unbelief in the valley of decision? You need to ask the Holy Spirit for his wisdom before you make such errors of judgements based on the intellect of men with uncircumcised hearts. Here a verse of scripture I was led to read and study which gave great insight into the workings of the Holy Spirit. For in

John 16:13 " How be it when he , the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all the truth;for he shall not speak of himself but what soever he shall hear , that shall he speak and he will show you things to come".

In essence it means, if you never ask the right questions you will not get the right answers because the Holy Spirit speaks based on what he hears and he knows our hearts. I have asked many questions and made no assumptions when I started looking into the full council of God's words concerning what my eyes see in the a physical and literal return of the nation of Israel. I have gotten over me and my biases, got over christianity and it's religion and into Christ the founder and voice which we all should be hearing concerning this reality in the Middle East but many don't. Looks very familiar to Calvary Hill….thank you Jesus for your grace!


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

Gosh I do not mean to write such long statements….


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

Greg thank you for visiting my Hub and for your comments. The Lord bless you.


Josh 2 years ago

Can some one explain to me what they ment by end times,did it mean the literal end of the world or the end of the way we live and will any harm come to earth like they say in the bible,also is christs return physically or spiritual,I hope it's spiritual because I'm only 13 and I don't want to go to heaven just yet,I wanna die of old age.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Josh

Thank you for your comment.

In my opinion, I believe the ‘end times’ applied to the end of Old Covenant Israel in AD 70, and not to the end of planet Earth. I also hold the view that Christ’s return in AD 70 was spiritual. However, this is a minority view within Christian circles and not readily welcomed by the majority of Christian scholars.

There are four opposing doctrines in Christendom regarding the ‘end times’, which have been debated for centuries as to the correct one, so don’t let the subject worry you. Instead, (if you haven’t done so already) I advise you put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and be born again into His Kingdom. By doing so, as a child of God you can rest assured that whatever the future holds, Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you. He is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

GB


Josh 2 years ago

How can I be reborn into the land of Christ?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Josh

If you mean you would like to be a Christian, I suggest you explain this to your parents, and ask if you can attend a local Church in your area. Perhaps you have a Christian friend who could take you to a Church with a good youth group; the leaders there will answer your questions and help you further.

My Hub called ‘What Is the Gospel Truth?’ may also help.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/What-actua...


GreyFoXX4 2 years ago

In your view

1 Is Jesus coming again for the redemption of christians and for vengance?

2 will there be a new earth and new heaven?

3. Will satan be cast in the lake of fire to never return?

4. Will God dwell with us in Gods kingdom that comes down to earth?

5 is there a rapture?

6. When did satan get kicked out of heaven?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

GreyFoXX4

1 Is Jesus coming again for the redemption of christians and for vengance?

No, Jesus has already returned for the redemption of christians and vengeance.

2 will there be a new earth and new heaven?

The new earth and new heaven already exist. My Hub explains my view:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/New-Heaven...

3. Will satan be cast in the lake of fire to never return?

Satan has already been cast into the Lake of Fire. My Hub explains my view:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Did-Jesus-...

4. Will God dwell with us in Gods kingdom that comes down to earth?

The Kingdom of God is spiritual and already exists, God now dwells with believers. My Hub explains my view:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Two-Je...

5 is there a rapture?

There will not be a rapture. My Hub explains my view:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Raptur...

6. When did satan get kicked out of heaven?

My Hub explains my view:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Satan-Was-...


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 2 years ago from West Virginia

Lots of people think that all the wars and things that are going on today are the last days. They seem to have no concept that all these things have happened many time in the past. Jesus also said that everything has happened before and there is nothing new. Thanks for all the scripture. I already did my research on this.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Lady Guinevere

Thank you for your comment.

In my opinion, there are many who 'cry wolf' at every crisis and do disservice to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Books are rapidly published and videos produced in the 'end times' money making industry.

Notwithstanding, I encourage everyone to diligently seek and be reconciled to God.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 2 years ago from West Virginia

God is within you. You cannot leave that no matter how hard that you try and vice versa. There is a website that has something like 200+ times that Jesus was supposed to have come back. That Camping Minister told everyone that he was coming back, I think it was 2 years ago and guess what....all those people that put faith in what he said---where are they now? No one will know when the world will end nor when Jesus will come back---Jesus said that in that Bible too. All the answers are within each of us, not in a book or in the stars or in someone else. Don't be fooled by those who only seek money and fame and fortune and spread hate and greed and fear.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Lady Guinevere

Thank you for your contribution to my Hub.


Agnes Lepley profile image

Agnes Lepley 2 years ago from Eagleville, TN

If you are correct in your article and all the scriptures have been fulfilled, why then is there still evil in the world? Why, if satan has already been cast into hell is there still death? Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. So if we are still experiencing these things, then we've missed heaven? If this is heaven then it is nothing like the bible states in Revelation 21. Also it states in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." So are you saying that this has happened? That in 70 AD that Nero sat in the temple and claimed he was God? No, he didn't go to Jerusalem during the destruction in 70AD because he actually committed suicide in 68 AD so he couldn't have been there.

Blessings!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Agnes Lepley

Thank you for your comment, and welcome to HubPages. I will answer your questions, but regarding the content of my Hub, can you please tell me:

Do you believe Jesus lived during the last days, 2000 years ago?

Do you believe the New Testament writers believed and taught they were living in the last days?


Agnes Lepley profile image

Agnes Lepley 2 years ago from Eagleville, TN

No I do not believe Jesus lived in the last days. I believe the New Testament writers thought they were living in the last days as most every generation has since the ascension of Christ, but those words were for them then, but were also for us today. I replied to your post on my hub with more info so I won't repeat all that again.

Blessings!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Agnes Lepley

Quote: 'No I do not believe Jesus lived in the last days.'

Heb 1:1-2 KJV God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 9:26 NLT If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age* to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice.

1Pe 1:19-20 NLT It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus lived during the last days. His earthly ministry took place during the last days, at the end of the Old Covenant Age.

Joh 16:12-14 KJV  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit inspired all the New Testament writers, and all wrote they were living in the last days.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Agnes Lepley

You kindly answered my questions, here and on your own Hub about the last days:

Are We Really in the End Times? What Are the Signs To Look For?

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Are-We-Rea...

I have written Hubs that explain in detail my view on your questions. However, as promised, the following is in response to your comment:

Q: If you are correct in your article and all the scriptures have been fulfilled, why then is there still evil in the world?

I believe when Christ fulfilled all God's promises to Old Covenant Israel, He established the New Covenant Age. The Old Testament prophecies concerning the future New Covenant did not describe an Age without sin and death...Isaiah 65:17-20.

Why, if satan has already been cast into hell is there still death?

The Lord Jesus Christ came to redeem and reconcile 'man' to God. When Jesus defeated Satan who had the power of death, He thereby destroyed spiritual death, which was the result of Adam's fall. Biological death was not the enemy; it does not separate believers from God.

My Hub 'The Deaths of Adam'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/TheLifeand...

My Hub 'Did Jesus Defeat Satan?'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Did-Jesus-...

Q: So if we are still experiencing these things, then we've missed heaven? If this is heaven then it is nothing like the bible states in Revelation 21.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The New Jerusalem, and the New Heaven and New Earth describe the blessings of the New Covenant Age...Revelation 21:1-2.

Rev 22:14 KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

If Revelation 21 is a description of heaven, what is your understanding of Revelation 22? For example, who are those dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie?'

My Hub 'Will New Jerusalem Come Down from Heaven?'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Two-Je...

My Hub 'Will New Heaven and Earth Be Destroyed by Fire?'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/New-Heaven...

Q: So if we are still experiencing these things, then we've missed heaven?

Why should we feel we have missed Heaven? I believe the 'born again' believer is ushered into the presence of God at physical death.

Q: So are you saying that this has happened? That in 70 AD that Nero sat in the temple and claimed he was God?

2Th 2:4 KJV Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In my opinion, Nero was the 'man of sin'. Concerning Nero never sitting in the temple, it is interesting to read Strong’s definition of the word ‘sitteth’.

Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries interprets 'sitteth' figuratively.

'sitteth' Strong's G2523 καθίζω kathizō kath-id'-zo

Another (active) form for G2516; to seat down, that is, set (figuratively appoint); intransitively to sit (down); figuratively to settle (hover, dwell): - continue, set, sit (down), tarry.

Other men of evil reputation attempted figuratively to 'sit in the seat of God.’…Isaiah 14:13, Ezekiel 28:2.

GB


Agnes Lepley profile image

Agnes Lepley 2 years ago from Eagleville, TN

So question, do you believe in the Millennium? If so, do you believe we are living in it now? That is what the scripture in Isaiah is talking about, the Millennium. It says that the child shall not die young, but live 100 years old. If we are in that stage, children die every day. It says that the wolf and the lamb shall feed together...not so.

Nero was dead two years before 70AD. He was not that man of sin, whether he actually sat in the temple, which he didn't, or any of the other meanings. This particular man of sin will say to the world I am God, worship me. Isaiah 14:13 was referring to satan, Lucifer. This was when he tried to take over heaven and was cast out along with 1/3 of his followers. Ezekiel 28:2 It is talking about a prince who is being controlled by Lucifer. His desire was that of Lucifer's to set in temple but as you stated it was only an attempt. The antichrist will come and set in the temple at God's appointed time. Only then will he be allowed to do so.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Agnes Lepley

Quote: 'So question, do you believe in the Millennium? If so, do you believe we are living in it now? That is what the scripture in Isaiah is talking about, the Millennium.'

Isaiah never mentioned the millennium! In fact, none of the Old Testament prophets predicted a millennium. Isaiah 65 and 66 described the New Heavens and the New Earth and we are living in the New Covenant Age.

Quote: 'This particular man of sin will say to the world I am God, worship me.'

Nero did claim deity. He demanded offerings and worship, and gave a mark to all who obeyed his command. Perhaps this is a topic for a future Hub.

I mention Nero in my Hub 'The Book of Revelation Was Written Before AD 70!'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Revela...

Quote: 'Isaiah 14:13 was referring to satan, Lucifer. This was when he tried to take over heaven and was cast out along with 1/3 of his followers.'

There is no scriptural support for the view that Isaiah referred to Satan, he prophesied the demise of the Babylonian Empire. Isaiah 14 was a proverb/poem about the King of Babylon... Isaiah14:4.

When did Satan try to take over heaven with 1/3 of his followers?

My Hub 'Was There a Pre-Adamic Race'

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Satan-Was-...

Quote: 'Ezekiel 28:2 It is talking about a prince who is being controlled by Lucifer. His desire was that of Lucifer's to set in temple but as you stated it was only an attempt.'

That's not quite the way I understand it. Many scholars teach Ezekiel 28 described Satan's origin and character, but there is no scriptural support for the view, Ezekiel prophesied the demise of the prince of Tyre.

My Hub 'Who Is the Bright and Morning Star? Jesus or Lucifer!

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Is-Jesus-R...

GB


Calypso02 profile image

Calypso02 2 years ago from New York

While it is true that Jesus defeated his enemies, I do believe we are living in the last days. We know He is going to come again. That He promised. A friend told me she thinks Revelations has already come to pass and that we are in the period of peace. She's wrong, because the last thousand years have been anything but peaceful. I really feel that the tribulation will happen as planned.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

I agree because of many areas of scripture which makes that clear. god is giving mankind a chance to reconsider His Reality in Christ. God does things decently and in order, not being the author of confusion. First is the rebirth of Israel of 1948. And what that means is everything literally written about Israel that is yet unfulfilled has the very real potential for fulfillment. That is a word of wisdom for the day….. Jacob's Trouble is indeed on the horizon for Israel…..but so is the Judgement of the Gentile Nations of unbelief when they come down into the Valley of Decision at the gates of Israel and God must make a choice with His grace!


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Calypso02

Welcome to HubPages and thank you for your comment.

I respect your opinion and agree we are not living in a peaceful world. However, we are living in the New Covenant Age, which means that through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, those who trust in Him have spiritual peace.

In my opinion, many believers determine their 'end times' view on empirical evidence and sensational news headlines, instead of the Scriptures.

In my Hub I provide the Scriptures to support my statements.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

Thank you for your comment.

In my opinion, God's promises were to Old Covenant Israel, and fulfilled by AD 70.


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

If you read all of Romans CH 11 you will see that God has a covenant he still has pending with future Israel. We just didn't know how long the grace of God would last. The scriptures has much to say about a rebirthed of Israel. Jesus declared to them the future of His return. 70 AD did not fulfill all there was to be fulfilled and unfortunately many christians like to think so. Romans Ch 11 deals with that scenario. Maybe it didn't matter but odd how so much now matches with the scriptures in far more accuracy than 70 AD. I think God knows exactly what he is doing and His foreknowledge is clearly evident. You may mean well yourselves and never come against Israel. However, have seen the reality of hatred and animosity set against them around the world and most significantly among the Arab nations…..


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searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

We have had interesting exchanges previously in this comments segment, and my view has not changed.

Quote 'If you read all of Romans CH 11 you will see that God has a covenant he still has pending with future Israel. We just didn't know how long the grace of God would last.'

From Scripture, could you explain what covenant God still has with future Israel?

In my opinion, the Lord Jesus Christ established the New and Everlasting Covenant when Old Covenant Israel passed away in AD 70.

What covenant are you referring to?


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

The Holy Spirit speaks through the apostle Paul the final summation of God's purpose for Israel. In Romans 11: 25-27 " For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceit, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in. And so all of Israel shall be saved, As It Is Written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My Covenant with them. When I shall take away their sins."

I declared this is not hid but it is in fact ignored by the christian community which Paul is warning us about. God can move His Grace wherever He wants to. On Calvary His grace moved from the unbelief of the Jews to the unbelieving Gentiles ( after all gentiles weren't doing anything right either) . Now God's grace is preparing to move back to Israel the actual Jewish nation due to the unbelief of a Gentile world of defiance. Maybe you aren't defiant….but look around you and consider the Mideast conflict of hatred against them. God, in His foreknowledge and love speak to his people….first. However, his word declares "My people perish for lack of knowledge' and as it was for ancient Israel so is it now. Same flesh…same problem!

And the covenant actually will take full effect when the Corporate Body of Believers in Christ is raptured and taken out of the way for this final reality upon the earth of false religions. A righteous and holy God whose Word lives and is not dead but alive with hope in Christ. Israel will be dealt with but also so shall all nations to the glory of God and the climatic return of His Son as Israel's Messiah at last.

You don't have to believe it…..but there is plenty of ill-gotten christian doctrine that declared the Jews would never return as a nation during the almost 2000 years of silence. Are the gentiles also…stiff-necked and self righteous in their religiosness? Are we blinded too by our unwillingness to see a change in the wind of the gospel and stubborn refusing to hear? I remember the Pharisees very well in this regard…..do you?


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Robert The Bruce

The comment segment provides the reader the opportunity to challenge the author or ask a question about the Hub. This Hub is not the place for the statement you posted to gregb4hope.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

gregb4hope

Quote 'And the covenant actually will take full effect when the Corporate Body of Believers in Christ is raptured and taken out of the way for this final reality upon the earth of false religions.'

What covenant?


gregb4hope profile image

gregb4hope 2 years ago from El Paso TX

It is already mentioned in my previous comment…read slow for it is in the first paragraph. Technically the reference to "last days" indicate close to the end and can be seen as general in nature to some extant. However, the key principle is that there will be a conclusion to things as we know them. And with the abundance of nuclear weapons the last days of the last days could truly be a reality that matches God's intention far more than 70AD which is when the Jewish Temple came down but no Jesus. And with the book of Revelation written in 95AD after such an event, the math is rather clear concerning certain biblical prophesies yet to be fulfilled.

Maybe that's why Jesus said about the tribulation period in Matthew 24:22 Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved (animal & human) but for the elect sake, those days shall be shortened. " Christ answers the basis for His return.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 2 years ago from UK Author

Gregb4hope

I have tried reading your previous comment slowly, but it doesn't state the name of the covenant you are referring to. Please tell me which one it is.

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