Atheists are not Satanists and other myths of Christianity

Super Moon
Super Moon | Source

A bit of background....

I was raised in a multi-religious and secular family. My father, a Mason; my sister, a Catholic; my brother a Nazarene; my mother believed Jesus would come in a space ship and take us all "home"; my maternal grandmother and great grandmother were Choctaw and believed in the great spirit father and mother; another brother, an agnostic.

Yep, it was pretty strange growing up not knowing which "God" was the one true God or if there was a "God" at all. But I persevered and studied all the religions and I do mean ALL of them! I read the Bible, the Koran, the Talmud (all of them translated, of course). I read secular views. I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Christian Scientists, Mormons, Islam, Shintoism, you name it, I've read up on it. I have been exposed to these things, but I am not an expert!

I went to every kind of church and "Sunday school" there was if it was anywhere in the greater Houston, Texas municipality and I want you to know that EVERY religion in the world can be found in Houston! Including Rastafarian, Voodoo, and Satanism as well as any obscure thing you can think of.

I read the writings of cult leaders like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians in Waco. I even read the Unibomber's manifesto.

I read and comprehend over 1,000 words per minute, so I've read a lot of books. It takes me about a week to read the bible cover to cover and I've done that at least 5 or 6 times and more than one version of it. However, it has been over 30 years since I read it the last time and I never memorized it or even memorized some of it. I read it like an anthology of books should be read. I've met preachers, pastors and priests that knew less about the "holy" books than I do. I'm also aware that there are "experts" and "scholars" that know a great deal more about this subject than I will ever know or care to know.

I've been "saved", "baptized", "born again", "enlightened", and "purified". I once even went to "confession" with my sister. I tried drugs to "open" my mind. I've meditated, prayed, and proselytized. I really tried, but I couldn't "get it". I don't understand the bible and I don't understand why some people say they understand the bible. The books make no logical sense. Some passages can be understood at face value, but others must be "interpreted" by "faith". In other words, the bible says it's so, so it must be so. Not the best way to prove a point!

Satanist?

Looks like art, but Christians think it's the Anti-Christ.
Looks like art, but Christians think it's the Anti-Christ. | Source

But I did finally find the truth....

Religionists ALWAYS refer back to the feelings they get from worshiping and praying. They "feel" that there is a God, and that god is listening to them and speaking to them personally. They have "faith" that eternal heavenly life will be their reward for being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or any other religion. They know they can't prove god exists, or in some cases, that multi gods exist. They just "feel" it in their heart.

They reason that atheists cannot "feel" the presence of god/gods, so they must be wrong. Polyanalana has gone so far as to present a poem that states that atheists are actually being controlled by the devil himself..... wait for it..... SATAN controls atheists! And atheists will BURN IN HELL when Armageddon comes along and God takes the faithful home. There's that darn space ship again!

I resent this poem and her stating that Satan controls atheists, and she "loves me" for it in her Christian way and that is so nice. But that and five bucks will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. On my way to hell I'm sure. What I'd really like is for her and 50 gazillion other religionists to stop spreading their judgmental misinformation about people.

When I say people, I mean atheists as a group. Polyanalana cannot speak for her God (although she thinks she can) and she most certainly cannot speak for atheists as a group or individually for that matter.

I can only speak for myself. I cannot say I am smarter than anyone or that I have the answer to every question, but I can say that I, personally "feel" there is no god! After studying everything I could lay my hands on about religion and the concept of god/gods, I realized that there is no god because if there were, there would NOT be so many definitions of god. God would just be God. The one, true god would never have allowed so many versions to exist. The one, true god would not allow himself to be invisible. It just wouldn't happen. What would possibly be the point? And where is he/she/it? Who created God? Where did God come from? Why is he invisible?

So this is why god doesn't answer your prayers. This is why bad stuff happens to good people and good stuff happens to bad people. This is why god doesn't show up whenever some religious nut says that Armageddon is at hand. This is why babies die and children are beaten by their parents. This is why priests rape little boys. This is why we hate any religion different from our own. This is why the crusaders always fail to win over other religions.

BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOD! It's just that simple, folks. Man created god to explain things we do not understand. Man created many gods to explain this and that. But that doesn't make it so. Man created Santa Claus and fairies and Satan and Lucifer and the Boogieman. Man created whatever he wanted to and passed that information along to generations and generations ad infinitum until it was corrupted and changed beyond all recognition. Some things became accepted as total undeniable fact. But that still didn't make it so.

Every culture created their own god/gods because they didn't have anything real to base it on. These gods were a figment of their ancestors imagination. That's why no one knows what god looks like. That's why no one can "explain" god. Don't you get it?

a galaxy in the universe - one of many
a galaxy in the universe - one of many | Source

Good versus Evil - The biggest myth of all time...

God is good, Satan is evil. Jesus is good, all other prophets are false (evil). Buddha is good, Confucius is evil. Or Confucius is good, Buddha is evil. Heaven is good, Hell is evil. Fire is good, Fire is evil. What??? Wait a minute, how can fire be both good AND evil?

Fire is good because it warms us and cooks our food, Fire is evil because it destroys homes and kills.

Oh, that's right. It is both good and evil.

Now we get to the crux of the matter. Things CAN be both! God can be good, God can be evil. Jesus can be good. Jesus can be evil. Oh slap my mouth for even thinking such a thing! How can Jesus be evil? All he ever did was preach love and peace and good will. He died for our sins for Christ's sake!

Jesus was good in that he worked "miracles". He raised the dead, he cured leprosy, he forgave everyone's sins.... or did he? I think Jesus might have been evil because he forced people to choose him over the Jewish god, which, OMG, was the same as he was! Jesus was supposed to be the "son of god", or god in human form, or whichever version you've been taught to think. He also refused to cure ALL leprosy or raise ALL of the dead because, we'll really because he didn't have the power to do those things. He was scamming everyone. He was lying to everyone and we all know that lying is evil. Jesus and God said so. He made many promises he couldn't, wouldn't, didn't keep. Broken promises are evil.

So now you know. People, things, objects are not "good" or "evil" unless you assign a belief system to them. If you believe something is good, then it is. If you believe something is evil, then it is. But only in your mind, or your opinion. Someone else believes just the opposite!

Believing something to be true doesn't make it true. Believing in your own opinion of something is fine. You're entitled to your opinion. And I am entitled to mine.

Satan doesn't control atheists and never will. There is no Satan. Don't you get that?

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Read the official Satanic Bible...

The Satanic Bible
The Satanic Bible

Called "The Black Pope" by many of his followers, Anton La Vey began the road to High Priesthood of the Church of Satan when he was only 16 years old and an organ player in a carnival:

"On Saturday night I would see men lusting after halfnaked girls dancing at the carnival, and on Sunday morning when I was playing the organ for tent-show evangelists at the other end of the carnival lot, I would see these same men sitting in the pews with their wives and children, asking God to forgive them and purge them of carnal desires. And the next Saturday night they'd be back at The carnival or some other place of indulgence.

 

© 2010 Austinstar

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Comments - I have plenty more to say on this subject and I will, so stay tuned! 146 comments

Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Thank You!!!! I also voted it up useful and awesome.

I think I know where she got a WRONG imression about me: She thinks that I am for abortion from one hub that I wrote a response too 2 years ago. Christians love to twist things around that it does even make sense.

"I don't beleive in abortion at all--even if you can't afford to raise the child." That was in one of SirDent's hubs. Sorry I posted it here but I have other way to get to her on this. I am sure that others are deleting my comments for just this reason too. The hub in question is: http://hubpages.com/hub/whydidntigetachance

They don't need God to tell them anything. They NEED to LEARN how to READ!

Athiests know how to read! LOL


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

I tweeted it and posted it on FB


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Awesome, LG. I'm planning to read more of your hubs. It's that spare time thing. So evil that we only get 24 hours in a day. Like couldn't we have a Venusian day? (A Venusian day is 243 earth days.) But then a work week on Venus would surely be hell! LOL


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

LOL yes! Oh and Venis is the God of Women or Feminie and I think that is why they prefer Mars--Men. Have you read the book Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus? Excellent book about relatioships. Something that is lacking here for sure!!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Yes, I read that book and thousands of others. My favorite books right now are the Lee Child books. Jack Reacher is me if I had been born a man. Or Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory. LOL


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

(Polyanalana .... states that atheists are actually being controlled by the devil himself..... wait for it..... SATAN controls atheists!)

What this little girl with the blurred image and mind doesn’t understand.....is that SATAN is the invention of her cult, Christianity! The Jews laugh at this idea of Satan.

Christianity is yet another version of Polytheism. It had to be that way in order to make itself be a shoe that fits every foot....from pagans, Hellenists, to witches, tribes, and various cults back in the day. Jesus had to be all things for all people in order to suck them into the new world order.

Polyanalana won’t admit to it.....but she indeed worships Satan along with the other cast of characters: Jesus, Yahweh, Allah, holy spirit, father, son, etc.

Her religion has brainwashed her to:

1) Acknowledge Satan.

2) Plan her life around Satan.

3) Think about Satan every minute of the day (just read her hubs.....every single one of them has the word Satan.....she is OBSESSED with Satan!)

4) Try to relate Satan with every circumstance in the world.

5) Try to relate Satan with every person who opposes her opinions.

If this obsessive compulsive behaviour is not SATAN WORSHIP, then I don’t know what is.

(How can Jesus be evil?)

He condoned slavery and prescribed EXACTLY how to beat your slaves until they almost reach the point of death.......at which point he said you must resuscitate them.....Ah, that’s so nice of baby Jesus! Every child should know the story of Baby Jesus.

Jesus was never against child rape & murder.....or any evil act for that matter. He was just SILENT on these issues. And he had to be.....his father Yahweh always had child rape and murder on His mind :-)

Very nice hub, Austinstar.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Captain Jimmy can you not use your own words. Spoutng scripture is not and does not mean anything if you don't know what it was in your little heart fot that is where the laws are---period.

Gag me with a spoon!!!

Hey CJ--who wrote Timothy because that is total opposite was Jesus said in the same Bible.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

Austinstar,

There once was a lady from Houston

Who got angry 'bout religious abusin'

She dissed poet girl

For making her hurl

With all her Holier-than-musings

See, atheists came rhyme, too! Great hub.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

For Captain Jimmy from my holy book:

"With a little ingenuity and vision, he had made it all but impossible for anyone in the squadron to talk to him, which was just fine with everyone, he noticed, since no one wanted to talk to him anyway." Catch-22, Chapter 9, page 111


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Was that quote from Major Major Major Major? And what kind of name is Yosarian? Gosh, I still haven't figured out how Milo bought eggs for 9 cents apiece and sold them for 7 cents apiece (if I remember correctly) and still made a profit! Oh, I need to read Catch 22 for the 8th time so I'll remember it better. It must have been 30 years since I read it.

Winston, you have to read Lee Child's books. They are so RATIONAL!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Captian Jimmy, if I wanted quotes from the Bible here, I would have put them here myself. Quotes from the bible will be deleted, go read the bible on your own time. Next time, give me something original or a reference quote that makes sense.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh, Winston, I loved your poem! We need to try the Vulcan mind meld one of these days. I think our brains are a match!


AKA Winston 5 years ago

Austinstar,

Live long and prosper.

By the way, I was amazed to see your brother was Nazarene. My brother and I were both reared in a strict Nazarene home, we both attended a Nazarene college. He graduated - I got expelled before the first semester ended. Go figure.

Just thought you of all people, then, would appreciate for a Nazarene how far it is from there to here - almost an impossibility.

Still, there is a funny side. While my brother was in the Army as a chaplain, he went for therapy to a psychologist. The pyschologist shook his head and said, "We get more Nararenes in here!"


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh, that is too, too funny. I often think my brother needs professional help. He's smarter than I am and still thinks he's going to heaven even though he admits he can't describe where heaven is or even what it's like, but he just "knows" there is one. He graduated from the Nazarene college in Oklahoma City or near there. I would laugh at him because he absolutely adores watching movies and you know the Nazarenes don't allow their members to go to movie houses, so he would sneak across town to go to the movies. He's a freakish expert at poker too. I may have actually seen him dance once. Now what kind of Nazarene plays cards and dances? I ask you.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(Now what kind of Nazarene plays cards and dances? I ask you.)

austinstar,

The kind who will burn in hell, that's who.

Your brother's college was Bethany Nazarene in Bethany, Oklahoma - my 1/2 semester alma mater, as well. It was also my mother and father's alma mater. My brother went to Pasadena Nazarene College and taught religion at Nampa Nazarene until being evicted for teaching a human basis for errancy in the bible.

After I was expelled, I transferred to Central Oklahoma School for the Damned....a Satanist school taught by atheists...

Pollyannalana did not approve. I liked it just fine.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

You're right! It was Bethany. I couldn't remember the name. For sure, I never wanted to go there. I went to Sam Houston State University in Huntsville. My hero then was Dan Rather for some reason and my father worked for the Houston Post, so I thought I'd become a famous Journalist. Worked in medical labs to pay my way through school and found I had a real talent for Blood Banking and hospitals just kept offering me more and more money for it, so I stuck it out for 34 years now. I can transfuse blood in my sleep, and program computers to do it. I get job offers from all over the country now. Guess, I did end up famous after all.


drbj profile image

drbj 5 years ago from south Florida

Lela - Now I know why we are sisters of the mind - Lee Child is MY favorite author, too. You have excellent taste. And your hub is rich and sublime. But you know that! :)


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Hello, drbj. Any fan of Jack Reacher is a human to get to know. I just finished the latest, "Worth Dying For" and although Child never fully explained how Reacher survived the fire from "61 Hours", the book was the usual entrancing Reacher against the world action adventure. I read it all within 24 hours and every time I finish one, I wish I was on the road with him again. When will these movies be made? Who will play Reacher? I'm on pins and needles.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

@Winston, Your sister is Poylyannalana! What kinds of things do they teach in that school! Hate, Hate and more Hate?


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 5 years ago from US

Austinstar’s words to Polly > That is just un-called for. But it is typical of christians to blame satan for everything they don't understand. And you don't seem to understand that your god is the one who created satan in the first place. (He's a fallen angel, right?) And if satan is imperfect, then god must be imperfect for creating him. (After all, don't you believe that god created all things?)

Polly>

Uncalled for? Maybe you don’t believe in God but you are certainly afraid of satan and your first paragraph here explains it all. I won’t be back and Atheists I suppose make up things people say. Why not just copy and paste like I did here instead of turning and twisting someone’s words. People won’t believe in you either if you lie... or your friends. I am sorry for you and I won’t be back. God doesn’t want me associating with evil or any appearance of evil and that is all I see here. Glad to know who all is here working for the god of deception. There are different degrees of hell same as rewards in heaven is my belief so maybe if you don’t pick on God’s children and lie on them He won’t let satan get you as bad as satan would like to after using you.

Will you print me as I did you? Let's see.


akirchner profile image

akirchner 5 years ago from Central Oregon

Wow is all I can say - you've read the Bible front to back that many times? I wouldn't want to get into a religious discussion with you then.....but...since you brought it up....

Great hub for real. I dabbled in religious when I was young and looking for somewhere safe to keep myself. I do see the worth of it all and most of the folks that I know who are extremely religious are there for a reason. It is a safe haven. I totally get that and I totally applaud anything in life giving you a life preserver.

However, the part I have the hard time with is Bible pushing, religious fanatics who think they have all the answers. Just once, I'd really like to know someone who died, went to heaven and came back to actually TELL me what they saw! WHO they saw! Did they see the 'Chief?' I'm sorry - I know I'm probably going to hell in a hand basket but I am a concrete person and I believe in what I can see, touch, smell and take a picture of! Now does that make me doomed? I don't think so - does it make me bad because I don't buy 'faith'? I don't think so.

Because when it comes down to it, Lela, what kind of a god would he or she be if he or she judged me on my inability to believe when supposedly religion is all about love? And if it is so loving, how come some sects are saved and other people are all going to hell (myself included). I don't believe any of it - I do believe in being your own man or woman and doing what you know to be the 'right thing', to be all you can be (and not join the Army).

Got a bit of a ramble there....good lord! I best never write about religion, eh? Great subject and well written!!


AKA Winston 5 years ago

@ Lady Guinevere,

The story I most remember about my short time at Bethany Nazarene College was another boy who the dean of students suspected of doing something "wrong" but had no proof. He finally applied so much "guilt pressure" about repenting sins and such on the kid that the kid finally broke down and confessed - at which point the dean of students promptly expelled him.

See, repenting is good for the soul - but catching a sinner in a lie and then stoning him is even better!

Now, the crime I and two of my friends were expelled for was being caught in our dorn room taking pictures of each other with an unopened 6-pack of warm Coors beers we happened to find lying in a ditch near campus, every can caked with mud, which we had no plan on drinking.

Obviously a horrific sin - embarrassing the school.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

Quote the out-of-focus one, poly-unfocused:

(yada, yada, yadi...I won’t be back)

Whoo. The snake-lady spits a lot of venom.

Hey, Austinstar, maybe we should report a "spit and run" accident, ya think? Or was that just cat-scratch fever left untreated? Hisssssss. Meoooow!

@ akirchner

(Great hub for real. I dabbled in religious when I was young and looking for somewhere safe to keep myself. I do see the worth of it all and most of the folks that I know who are extremely religious are there for a reason. It is a safe haven. I totally get that and I totally applaud anything in life giving you a life preserver.

However, the part I have the hard time with is Bible pushing, religious fanatics who think they have all the answers)

Just thought you might like to know you may as well have recorded dictation from my brain as this copies my own thinking exactly.

Like you, I only have problems with asshats and imbeciles.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

@Winston, Even the Catholic Chruch does not go by what Jesus states in the Bible. Gambling is a sin and yet they do tip jars at theBingo Games. They drink wine and that is a sin--or so they say. In reality most people in the times of Jesus would have drank wine because fruit ferments in those receptacles they had to carry around. REally what is Pollyannalanas problem--Jesus didn't say to provoke anyone and she did and does.

They listen to Paul and when you tell them that you don't like Paul they get all riled up. Paul and Jesus NEVER met face to face. Why....becaseu Jesus supposedly died many years before Paul came on the scene. Oh there are hubs about Paul and he being the real deceiver and liar.

Do they teach children about earth and nature and all that like Jesus wanted or do they teach about how to hate and have a big EGO. I was going to write about the kingdom of God is in you and that doesn't mean the you need to have a BIG EGO but I posted my response to someone else in my Love Hub--or the other one about the Myth Of Peace and Love.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Hey Polly,

You're too funny! Thank you so much for the comedy!

But remember....only your fellow Christians will swallow that poisonous venom you spit all over the place.

Since you enjoy making us laugh, I'd like to hire you as my own personal clown, and showcase you around town so people can be envious of me.

But since you won't accept my job offer, I'll get the Barbie company to make me a blurred doll, in your image, with a draw-string that makes it say: S-A-T-A-N....S-A-T-A-N...

It'll be a hoot at Christmas parties!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Dare I hope? She said it TWICE! She won't be back. You heard her. Let's see how long that lasts.

@Audrey - I thought you were Jewish or something. Not that there's anything wrong with that. LOL. I think you should write a hub about religion. You get tons of hits! and all kinds of hate mail from the "Christians". It's fun!

@Pollyannalanalanalana - {Quote here} - "Maybe you don’t believe in God but you are certainly afraid of satan" {unquote}. I'm no more afraid of satan/god than I am of YOU! hahahaha You're a joke and as FF says "a clown". Please keep your word and don't come back.

@Winston - Yep, I think snake woman and I should never be in the same room together. I'm bigger than her and have a license to carry. And as a red head, it's hard for me to control my temper. Why I oughta....

@FatFist - Can you just imagine P's computer keys taking a beating like that? Maybe we'll get lucky and she'll throw the computer across the room! The best thing about crusaders is watching them have tantrums!

Gosh, I'll bet little miss Pollyananananalanana is re-incarnated from the puritans of Salem, Mass. She would probably have an orgasm watching the witches burn and I'm sure she'd put the first rock out for any stonings scheduled on Sundays.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

OMG, I just went back to her hub that started it all and now she thinks atheists are "Ted Bundy's". Gosh darn it, I haven't killed anyone in at least two weeks now. I thought I was a recovering serial killer. Crap, now I have to put forth the effort to Worship Satan AND find some helpless females to torture and kill. Sheesh, there is just not enough hours in the day.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

Austinstar,

Quoting poly-unfocused: (don’t pick on God’s children and lie on them)

This is a little confusing. I'm not sure if we are not to pick on children but we are supposed to lie ON them, or whether we are not to pick on them nor lie ON them - regardless it appears to be O.K. to lie TO them.

"No, Johnny, you shouldn't tell anyone where I touched you. As your priest, I can tell you sincerely that God wants it to be OUR secret."

(now she thinks atheists are "Ted Bundy's".)

Little does she know we are really Al Bundy. Let's rock!


lorlie6 profile image

lorlie6 5 years ago from Bishop, Ca

This Polyanna seems to be making the rounds here on HP, stirring up everyone! I'm not impressed.

Thanks, Austinstar, for your voice of reason.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Winston, I am definitely Peg Bundy to your Al! I just watched my fav beauty, Katy Sagal, on my fav TV show, Sons of Anarchy. She's the bomb! You'll have to be Clay Morrow (Ron Perlman).

Thank you lorlie, I will try to continue to enlighten the hub community with my voice of reason! (In my spare time)


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

I ask Pollyanalana this:

I am sure that you ask everyone who you have contact with, in the stores, shops and restaraunts what they believe before you even look at them?? Do those that have handicaps and mental illnesses or the children who have down's syndrome also fit into the category of evil and that they have Satan as their God?


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Lady G,

She participates in a society with non-Christians (which are all Satan-Worshipers according to her). She benefits from the taxes all these Satan-Worshipers pay. They will treat her children when sick. They will pave the walkways & roads she uses every day. They have built the house she lives in. Her family eats the food they cook for her every time they eat out. They even eat the food that are handled by them in supermarkets. She wears the clothes they make....etc.

Now don't you think these atheist Satan-Worshipers have put an EVIL SPELL on all these things she consumes on a daily basis? That explains her behavior...LOL

But the BEST part is.....she attends Sunday Service performed by atheist Pastors, as almost all of them are atheists.....and....Satan-Worshipers!

I bet there's an evil Satan spirit buzzing around her atheist-made pillow she sleeps on every night. And since it is invisible and immaterial, there is no way to get rid of it.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!

If only they opened their petty little eyes!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh no! the unfocused one is using HupPages! Surely it is frequented by her Satanists. Maybe even by serial killers and certainly by sociopaths. I hope Jesus comes soon.

I hope she tells us what sect to join. Gosh, I'd hate to miss going to heaven because I belonged to the wrong one. Which one is it?

Oh, I forgot, I've already been "saved" and "baptised" so I don't even have to worry. I've put my soul into god's care so he'll forgive my sins and I don't have to worry. I can do whatever I want to and still have a ticket to heaven. Guaranteed. I put my money in the little bowl they passed around. True, I didn't pay much as I was only a kid, but I seem to remember my mom made us save quarters to put in the church bucket. That was before she lost it and started seeing the little green men in the spaceships. Hey mom? How ya doing up there? Let me and Polyannalana know what heaven is like, would ya?


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

Great is the mystery of godliness.

We can try everything, religion, book, path, route, séance, trance, drug, group function, theology, ideology, ism, itic, otic, ph and plan.

If your spiritual life is NOT centered on Christ and the work done there, on the cross and if we do not cease from our own works... Christlikeness will not happen. God will not appear to be there. "well thats just unfair". NO.. its called "the way" and it is narrow indeed. It is christ centered, devoted, loving and worshipful. If these ingredients are not in the mix you will not get the end result.

Sorry that your own strength and ways did not help you or your cohort either but misery likes company.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 5 years ago from UK and Mexico

Austinstar. Great, GREAT article: if there is an almighty, he/she is a masochist for sure. How idiotic: "believing" in what man invented because he's frightened of death.

You sure don't lack content....Bob


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@brother yo - There's no mystery there. It's all in your head. I'm quite happy that you have become Christlike. It's your opinion of spirituality, being saved, being absolved of your sins, etc... The point of this whole article is that satan (whatever that is) does NOT control atheists and that god was created by man. You are worshiping a myth and a legend. Enjoy

@diogenes - Thank you kindly for the great words. I agree that religionists are Masochists! Sheesh, they worship and adore a "being" that created hell for the people that don't throw themselves at his feet and spend every waking moment proselytizing. He must "punish" his enemies. It's so nice that he sent his "only begotten son" to die on the cross (and be tortured to death) so that Christians wouldn't have to be responsible for their "sins" and if they worship this barbaric "sacrifice" for us, they are assured a place in "heaven" wherever that is.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

@brotheryo---The Kingdom of Heaven and God and all that is is WITHIN YOU. Anything that is not within your own mind doesn't exist and anyone who tells you things are outside of oneself is a liar.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Good morning, Lady G. I'm not sure I understand your last comment, but I hope the universe does keep on existing even when my mind is otherwise occupied!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Austinstar, Or minds are always expanding, we will never run out of ideas or imagination. We don't sleep as in total rest either. Our mind doesn't know the meaning of that. You can get an idea of that in my last hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Myth-Of-Peace-and-Love


Baileybear 5 years ago

What's interesting is the christians in the forums can't even agree with each other - some say hell exists, others say it doesn't; some say satan is a fallen angel, others say no such thing as devil and satan.

I read a hub by Kristeen - I was mentioned as "destined for hell" as I no longer believe all this garbage


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Aw, Baileybear. Let the bullies stick together in their miserable little stab at eternal "goodness". We already know that we own life, the universe and everything!


Baileybear 5 years ago

I commented on Polly's hub - total waste of time, of course. Earnest pointed out that he doesn't like the term "atheist" as it's a religious concept.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Ya see that is her EGO and not her GOD talking. She is getting something from deleting all the posts and it isn't into her Heaven and that is a promise!!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Yes, it is a total waste of time to comment on their hubs. What we should do instead is write our OWN hubs! Yay HubPages!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

They don't realize how immature it makes them look. Yes, we can write our own hubs with their hubs incorporated into ours with the comments that WE write that get deleted on their hubs. That shows them that our message will still go out no matter what they think they are doing. It also shows that they are in no means in control!


Baileybear 5 years ago

Yep, and I put lots of their mad quotes in to illustrate my points. I've already written 4 hubs since visiting the religious forums, with plenty of quotes. I let at least one scathing comment thru, so other people can see what they are like. The attacks are few and far between though - only one went "crazy" with their attacks


christopheranton profile image

christopheranton 5 years ago from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom

I wouldn't like to put "the cat among the pigeons" by making too extensive a comment on this article, but I would like to ask fatfist this. Where in the gospels is this recorded?

He condoned slavery and prescribed EXACTLY how to beat your slaves until they almost reach the point of death.......at which point he said you must resuscitate them.....Ah, that’s so nice of baby Jesus! Every child should know the story of Baby Jesus.

It's not anything that I am familiar with.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

FatFist? Response please....


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Sorry guys.....I am quite busy today being a good Christian and beating the crap out of my sex slaves, that I don't have much time to respond.

But I'll leave you with this:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

There are TONS of this stuff in both bibles. You can write 20 hubs. I'll post more later.

This stuff is old hat. You can easily google it.

But Mr. christopher should should go to church more often and learn this stuff. I used to go church 3 times a week, until my Pastor put his hand down my pants in the washroom of our fine Church. Ever since that event, I only go once a week. Now my Pastor always reminds me that I'll be going to Hell.


christopheranton profile image

christopheranton 5 years ago from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom

Exodus is from the old testament. Ephesians was written by St Paul. The word in greek,"Doulos" which your version incorrectly translates as slave is more correctly translated as servant, or bondservant,(that is one who sells himself into slavery) something that was sometimes done by people who owed money. The advice in modern terms would be something like "employees obey your employers", Quite sensible and correct I would think.

I did ask about Jesus, something I see, you have so far failed to answer. You cannot make a convincing argument unless you are fully conversant with the facts, and you cannot make a proper answer unless you first read and understand the question.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

So Chris only accepts the "new" 2000 year old version of the bible. And I can only say that a rose by any other name is still a slave. Is Doulos from Aramaic? or are you translating a translation? Oh, you say it's Greek. Yep, it is greek to me too.

Chris, Jesus is part and parcel of the entire bible. Religionists present the "word of god" as the bible and since Jesus is "god" according to this, what else are we to go by?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

FF, do you take your sex slaves to church with you? I so know how much you want to save their eternal souls. And will they still be slaves in heaven? That would be so much fun. I'm really going to have to hunt down the address for heaven. Got a phone number or anything?


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Christopher,

(Exodus is from the old testament.)

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

And THANK YOU VERY MUCH for being so PREDICTABLE by DENYING that Jesus is God!!

Absolutely ALL Christians will DENY Jesus as Lord, Divine, God, etc. when confronted by the atrocities committed by God!

Thank you for CONFIRMING 100% that Jesus is NOT God, was NEVER God, and will NEVER be God.........next question!

(Ephesians was written by St Paul.)

......who received the gospel not by any other person....but from a PERSONAL REVELATION BY CHRIST HIMSELF!!

And yes, Jesus (not God!!) did say to beat slaves.....even the slave who has DOWN'S SYNDROME and doesn't understand what his Christian master has asserted to be right from wrong.

Luke 12:47 (NIV) That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.

Only people who have experience in true Christian love are able to answer the TOUGH questions!

(The word in greek,"Doulos" which your version incorrectly translates as slave is more correctly translated as servant)

Ahhhhhh, someone is challenging fatfist on GRAMMAR! This will be good.........this will be REAL GOOD!!

------ BEGIN GREEK GRAMMAR LESSON for Christopher

The Greek term “doulos” is a SYNONYM for the Greek term “sklabos” which means SLAVE. This is EASILY confirmed with a genuine Greek dictionary or by someone who studied ancient and modern Greek.

The term SERVANT, in the context of having a butler or a maid,......is termed in Greek as:

1) Yphreths (male) or Yphretrha (female)

2) Oikiakos Bohthos (male) or Oikiakh Bohthos (female)

But in the context of SLAVE, that you OWN, and BEAT at will (in Christian times),.......in Greek is termed DOYLOS (male) or DOYLA (female), and SKLABOS (male) or SKLABA (female).

------ END GREEK GRAMMAR LESSON for Christopher

(I did ask about Jesus, something I see, you have so far failed to answer.)

Oh, INDEED, my friend......oh, INDEED!!!!!!

I’m glad you brought this up.

If Jesus is NOT God, or was NOT God......then you have the right to call fatfist a STUPID FOOL!!! I mean, how can an idiot like fatfist confuse Jesus for God??? Oh my Lord.....what a moron this fatfist is!

But, anybody who claims that Jesus IS God or WAS God.....then we don’t need to guess who is the .......

(You cannot make a convincing argument)

HA! HA! HA!

Remember......fatfist is a total fool.......it is irrelevant what fatfist says.

IT IS YOU WHO HAS MADE THE CONVICING ARGUMENT!!!!!!!!

AMEN!

Like I told you previously, Christopher.......you need to attend Church services and get to KNOW your Pastor on a personal level before you are able to come here and butt heads with fatfist, who has MORE Christian experience than YOU do! I have my Pastor's claw marks on my behind as proof!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

The Mayans were so sensible with their slaves, they killed them right away as sacrifices to their gods. It was quite the entertaining spectacle what with the bloody hearts still beating after being ripped from their chests. And anyone could volunteer! Instant ticket to heaven. No muss, no fuss. Well, someone had to clean up all that blood.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

What a crack-up. These guys want to argue the translation of a Greek word yet refuse to accept the historical-critical approach that would help them understand what meaning was the original. None of these guys understands that the 4 gospels are simply compilations of the oral traditions that circulated with early Christianity, and if there is a single, accurate quote that truly came the lips of Jesus anywhere in the bible it is a total accident and plain luck rather than divine inspiration because the whole book is based on hearsay, as no author of the varied books of the New Testament saw Jesus, knew Jesus, or heard him speak.

There was no concensus among Christians as to the divinity of Jesus until the 4th century when Constantine forced the issue, and Divine Jesus won the election in a show-of-hands vote against Non-Divine Jesus.

Along with that, I am fairly confident that few to none of the neo-apologists have a clue that there were many other gospels and books writtent that were considered scripture at the time of their writing but didn't make it into the final book because the messages conflicted with the winning message - winning rather than correct as that is all Christianity is - the form of today is simply that which survived by winning the most converts.

How more utterly human can you get?


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Austinstar,

(So Chris only accepts the "new" 2000 year old version of the bible.)

Yes, and more so.....he NECESSITATES that Jesus is NOT God! So Christopher actually made poor little fatfist look like a complete moron, because fatfist BELIEVED that Jesus was indeed God.

(Doulos from Aramaic?)

It’s Greek.

Chris has no clue that in Greek, the ROOT term YPHRESIA is a verb which means: TO SERVE! That’s where ALL the SERVANT terms are derived.

I really like his comedy.....I hope he posts some more of it.

(The Mayans were so sensible with their slaves, they killed them right)

The Christians are more God-like. They will beat the crap out of a slave till near death. If the slave survives for a day or two, they won’t be punished. But if the slave dies instantly from the beating, they will be punished. This means that the master has a few days to revive his slave from the beating.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

The whole dang Christian bible makes no sense to me. I was so traumatized by Deuteronomy that I could hardly read the rest of the book, but I did. IE - If a man is wounded in the stones, he cannot enter the house of the Lord for seven generations! (What what what???) I no longer remember chapter and verse numbers. Crap like that fills the whole bible.

The New Testament is so poorly written that only people in the club can "grasp" the meanings behind the parables. If it were straight forward enough for intelligent people, no one would give the book a second glance. But these "scholars" of the bible keep trying and trying and trying to interpret the "god" words. Doesn't even matter what language it's written in.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Just found a quote by secularist10 that I think is profound "The reasoning usually goes something like this: Belief in God is justified by the Bible; and why should I accept the Bible? Because it is the word of God. And how do we know it is the word of God? Because it says so in the Bible. They will never realize that their religion is justified by their religion."


AKA Winston 5 years ago

The more one researches the origins of biblical texts, the further one must stretch credulity in order to retain any semblance of acceptance, so much so that the biblical 144,000 seems a radically high number of humans to stray so far from reason and believe, so therefore the Gospel of Julio of Mexicali is probably a more realistic and accurate description - about the two brain-damaged choir boy brothers from Guadelupe who drink themselves insane on sacrificial shots of tequila and "are the only ones left in all of earth righteous enough to enter heaven - if they can still walk."


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Winston, just what is it about the bible that makes people so radically aligned with it? I just can't figure this one out. I mean, I have favorite books from time to time, even some non-fiction ones, but I'm not going to go out and proselytize at everyone I meet and kill them if they don't accept the book as their favorite too. Muslims do it for their book too, but Hindus don't. What's the deal?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

MEN It's men who want power and control over others.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

How do explain Cleopatra then? Or even Hillary Clinton? Nope, I don't think it's just men.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

(MEN It's men who want power and control over others.)

Hey! Are you making fun of me?

God gives me permission to have female slaves and exhibit brutal corporal punishment upon them. As long as I can revive them from their beating-induced coma in a couple of days, I am fine with God.

This is NOT sinning by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, the Christians may huff & puff and complain about Muslim nations who still obey this law, but they are just trying to get you to forget what they did for over 1500 years.

I mean, who can blame the ignorant desert-dwelling goat herders of the Middle East back then? They did say this was the word of God,.... who decided to reveal Himself in the mid-east, of all places.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Yea, I fantasize about men having power over me until I giggle so hard I wet my pants!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Austinstar,

You are licensed to carry. No Muslim or Bible-thumping Christian man would ever even think of trying to get "medieval" with you!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

fatfist! You make me laugh today!!! Thanks


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

You're welcome, LG.

The Bible has been rehashed millions of times. It just blows me away how people who carry it by their "heart" and believe in it,... never even bother to open it up and read it.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

FF---that is soooo true!!!


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(Winston, just what is it about the bible that makes people so radically aligned with it?)

Austinstar,

It is a unique and powerful book, a combination of legends, myths, moral fables, and oral traditions - written by people who were not attempting to deceive but who were believers themselves.

Plus, it's the only religious book that offers a free Beelzebub decoder ring in every box...


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Plus, it's the only religious book that offers a free Beelzebub decoder ring in every box...

That is funny!!! LOL LOL LOL


PrometheusKid profile image

PrometheusKid 5 years ago from Heaven

The Kingdom of Heaven is a condition of the heart (-it is said of children "for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven"): Not thing "above the earth." The Kingdom of God does not "come" chronologicaly-historically, on a certain day in the calendar, some-thing that might be here one day but not the day before: it is an "inward change in the individual," something that comes at every moment and at every moment has not yet arrived-


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(The Kingdom of Heaven is a condition of the heart)

PK,

Yes, I had an uncle who was diagnosed with this very disease - the p-wave and QRS complex on his EKG looked like an upside-down crucifix. The doctors had to give him a shot of the demon rum to correct the condition, but it was touch and go there for a minute.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

You guys are making me laugh too hard. I want my decoder ring!

(It is a unique and powerful book, a combination of legends, myths, moral fables, and oral traditions - written by people who were not attempting to deceive but who were believers themselves.)

But like FatFist said, they carry this book around and never read it. I don't get that. Or they read it and think it's beyond comprehension.


Baileybear 5 years ago

You'd think they'd realise by now that the "heart" isn't where their feelings and beliefs happen


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

True, the heart is just a muscle and a pump. I wonder if people 2,000 years ago had atrial fibrilations and figured it must mean the holy spirit was moving in their chests? It's pretty unsettling to "feel" your heart moving!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Now this is the real saddness that the people who have messed with the books of the Bible have done. When I wrote about Jesus and him saying to treatthe animals kindly I used a book that was not in the conical books and was taken out for whatever reasons. In that book the "children" where the animals of the earth and not human animals. Only in the Bible that we see today is it that the "children" are humans and not the other way around. I got a lively discussion going on that hub because someone didn't like hte picutre that I chose of Jesus holding a cat. They thought the real Jesus would be holding a lamb--well yes that is what they are taught. That would be wrong and I explained why it would be more true for Jesus to be holding a cat instea of a lamb and they got upset and left the hub. Along with not reading the Bible for themselves they refuse to look at the surroundings of the times that those people were living in and where Jesus walked to earth---they are told they will go to hell if they look other than their silly preachers. It is totally ridiculous!

For Prometheuskid---we are IN God's Kingdom and God's Kingdom is IN us from the first Breath that we take---or can't you read that in your Bible that everything is WITHIN US and WE are Gods. Perhgaps you wuld get a better idea of this by reading another one of my hubs about Without Adversary What Would We Have.

The Spirit is also called the Blood that courses trhough our veins--the American Indian's knew it as such. Then again the "white-man" knows more then they knew and had to kill them all and put them on reservations because ----what---they feared them? Sensless Wars again!!----On THEIR land we STOLE from them. Nothing changes with you people! If you only knew who you were really fighting---call it all that you believe STEALING because the Bible's OT was STOLEN from a very ancient culture. That goes against your 10 commandments---Stealing is stealing and Lying is still lying no matter how you twist it around.


PrometheusKid profile image

PrometheusKid 5 years ago from Heaven

Christianity, it is said, begins from the burning of the false gods by the people themselves. Education begins with the burning of our intellectual and moral idols.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Please explain that.


PrometheusKid profile image

PrometheusKid 5 years ago from Heaven

" Then there is no lying poet." "I think not." "Well then, would it be thought fear of his enemies that he would lie? " "Far from it." " Would it be because of the folly or madness of his friends? " "Nay, no fool or madman is a friend of God." "Then there is no motive for God to deceive." " None." " So from every point of view" the divine and the divinity are free from falsehood." " By all means." " Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and world, and neither changes himself nor deceives others by visions or worlds or the sending of signs in waking or in dreams."

Plato already explain

"The entire Christian teaching as to what shall be believed, the entire Christian "truth," is idle falsehood and deception; and precisely the opposite of what inspired the Christian movement in the beginning."

Friedrich Nietzsche already explain


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Well, I'm still not sure what that is all about. What point are you trying to make?


EmbracingTheTruth 5 years ago

First of all I would like to say that this is a great hub, that hopefuly will get a lot of religious people thinking. (IF they read it) However, there are a few areas where (from my understanding) you are slightly mistaken...

*According to the Bible, Jesus never forced anyone to follow him. As a matter of fact he discouraged those who were not sincere because he only wants genuine followers.

*Jesus never spoke a lie, if He did, I would like to know what they were. And what promises did he make that He did not keep? If you don't mind, could you give specific cases, and where you get that info from please?

*Jesus healed ALL those who came to him, and why should he raise ALL the dead? If he were to raise all the dead while time still exists, then what would be the point of dying? When time is over, then God will raise ALL men out of their graves so that they can be judged according to their works. (We are NOT saved by works, but our works will determine the judgement that we face)

*Satan is behind the sinners..this includes CHRISTIANS, atheists, and all other religions out there, but he does not control anyone (unless they give him the power to do so). Satan told Eve in the garden if you eat from that tree, then you will be as gods...and it was so. When we turn away from God, then we become our OWN god, and our own enemy.

You say you have read the bible from cover to cover, but you have not understood it. If you had, you would not ask why there are so many religions if there is only one God, because the answer is clear in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. It explains in detail why there are so many religions, and that is because they do not love the truth.

God is not found in a book, nor in any religion, including christianity. You can only find him if you sincerely call out to him, and He will reveal himself to you. The bible says that the day will come when no man will teach his neighbor, but God will teach his people, and write His laws upon their hearts and minds. See Jeremiah 31:33-34 and Hebrews 8:10-11. (We are living in that time right now).

Thus there is no need to go to church anymore, or to bible school, or anywhere else in order to find God, because God is everywhere. Hope you will find him...


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

(there are a few areas where (from my understanding) you are slightly mistaken.) Is this like being "slightly pregnant"?

(Jesus never spoke a lie, if He did, I would like to know what they were. And what promises did he make that He did not keep?) - Just that small one about salvation.

"John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

(then what would be the point of dying?) - What indeed is the point of dying? I believe in reassembly of our atoms, so none of us ever really "die", we just become some other part of the universe.

(Satan told Eve in the garden if you eat from that tree, then you will be as gods...and it was so.) Then the next part describes kicking Adam and Eve out of the garden so they would not "become as one of us and live forever". That's just so mean of those gods.

(When time is over, then God will raise ALL men out of their graves so that they can be judged according to their works) First of all, time is a man made measurement and concept. Time did not "begin" and it certainly will never "end". If it did end, then what would happen one second afterwards? And why does god feel the need to judge his own "creations"? Are some of us "successes" and some of us "failures"? And according to what standard? Where is the perfect human to judge us by? Don't say "Jesus".

(why there are so many religions if there is only one God, because the answer is clear in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. It explains in detail why there are so many religions, and that is because they do not love the truth.) Again, I'm asking, "where is the truth"? Is the bible true just because it claims to be the truth? The Hindus are all following lies? If your god is true then he/she/it would have made itself known to all from the very beginning of all religious beliefs. (Notice I do not say the very beginning of time since there is no such thing.)

(God is not found in a book, nor in any religion, including christianity. You can only find him if you sincerely call out to him, and He will reveal himself to you. The bible says that the day will come when no man will teach his neighbor, but God will teach his people, and write His laws upon their hearts and minds. See Jeremiah 31:33-34 and Hebrews 8:10-11. (We are living in that time right now).) This is utterly absurd. God sucks as a teacher if the bible is any indication.

(Hope you will find him)

Well, if God is everywhere, I don't have to look far!


White Horse 5 years ago

Alan Dershowitz wrote a book PREEMPTION A KNIFE THAT CUTS BOTH WAYS. REV: 1:16 And out of his mouth went a sharp TWOEDGED SWORD.


EmbracingTheTruth 5 years ago

When Jesus said that in John 11, he was referring to eternal life. Just like when God told Adam and Eve "In the day ye eat thereof, ye shall surely die". Adam and Eve did not die that day, but they were destined for death that day. And Jesus is basically saying the same thing...In verse 25 he simply reassures Martha that those who have died will live again, and then in verse 26, he gives reassurance that those who are alive will also live. The reason he gave 2 different statements like that was because many believed that the end of the age would come in their life-time. Also notice how Jesus said "I am the resurrection". this goes to show that the ressurection must first take place before anyone can inherit eternal life.

So I am confused...You say that Jesus lied when he said that those who live and believe in him shall never die, but yet you also believe that we never die, we just get reassembled into the universe. So did Jesus lie, or did he speak the truth?

And you are right, God did kick Adam and Eve out, but God is greater than us. We can rule over the things in our life, but God created us, and He rules the universe. He saw that it was not good for man to live forever in a sinful state, and so he kicked them out for their own good. Let me ask you...do you have children that you love? And if you do, when they do not obey, do you not send them into a corner, to their rooms or at least find a way to punish them? You do it not because you are being mean, but because they need to learn how to properly respect authority. You do it because you love them.

As for time...scientists have discovered that time does not exist outside of our universe. If they travel out far enough, then they are not subject to time. And that is where God has his abode, outside of this universe where there is no time. Genesis 1 explains that God created time when he created the sun, the moon and the stars. Verse 14 says..."let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" Time is simply a measurement of existence, and if the sun, moon and stars did not exist, then we would not have time, because time is measured by them. matthew 24:29 says at the end of the great tribulation, the sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars will fall from the heavens. Thus time will cease to exist. When time ends, the righteous will live with God for all eternity (not forever). Forever is a reference to time, but eternity is not...they will be in a renewed universe where they will never cease to be.

Why does God feel the need to judge his own creations? Because God loves his people and he wants that they should live with him for all eternity. But he does not want that any of them be tormented, or live among sin. Therefore he has to eliminate those souls that would corrupt to attempt to corrupt the ones who genuinely worship Him. No one is a failure, or a success...but rather there are those who obey, and those who don't.

Humans compare themselves with other humans, but God will judge us according to his commandments that he writes unto your heart. No one will ever be condemned for a sin that they did not know to be sin. See Romans 2:11-16 on how God will judge. and 1 John 3:21 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." To have confidence before God means that we will not face punishment.

What is the truth? That is a big question, but I will try...Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life. This passage has been misinterpreted by christians into thinking that unless you profess the NAME Jesus that you are going to hell. There is just as much truth in Hinduism, Muslim, and other religions as what is taught in christianity. As I said, God is not found in a book (the Bible, Koran) or any other religious book. But rather, how do you live your life?, how do you treat others? and so on. Many christians will shun the drug addicts or drunks on the street, but Jesus would sit with them and help them.

You say that God sucks as a teacher...but I disagree. for if God was a lousy teacher, he would not have revealed the truth to you and allowed you to see that religion is fake. By reading your hub and your comments tells me that God has shown you more truth than he has shown to most people in religeous groups. Not because he loves you more, but because you were obedient to your conscience and followed him. Thus if you continue to follow your conscience, then God will keep revealing more and more truth to you.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

ETT, but God is greater than us.

Then how can anyone know what God thinks or knows or does like many religious ttry to thrust down people's throats. The only way that can be is as if we ARE GODS and Jesus did say that.

Now I see you twisting things above too---like he was talking about this or that or these or those---but where YOU there when those words were spoken? NO you weren't and we don't know the "Slang" language at that time and in that culture.


EmbracingTheTruth 5 years ago

Hi Lady G, Yes God is greater than us. I mentioned that in the third paragraph of the last comment.

So I gave my interpretation of John 11:25-26, I would love to hear yours. Thanks!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

John 11:20-30 (Young's Literal Translation)

20Martha, therefore, when she heard that Jesus doth come, met him, and Mary kept sitting in the house.

21Martha, therefore, said unto Jesus, `Sir, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died;

22but even now, I have known that whatever thou mayest ask of God, God will give to thee;'

23Jesus saith to her, `Thy brother shall rise again.'

24Martha saith to him, `I have known that he will rise again, in the rising again in the last day;'

25Jesus said to her, `I am the rising again, and the life; he who is believing in me, even if he may die, shall live;

26and every one who is living and believing in me shall not die -- to the age;

27believest thou this?' she saith to him, `Yes, sir, I have believed that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming to the world.'

28And these things having said, she went away, and called Mary her sister privately, saying, `The Teacher is present, and doth call thee;'

29she, when she heard, riseth up quickly, and doth come to him;

30and Jesus had not yet come to the village, but was in the place where Martha met him;


AKA Winston 5 years ago

Gee, I hate to be left out of a holy book pissing contest, so let me chime in from my own holy book.

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt, and his only mission each time he went up was to come down alive." - Catch-22, Chapter 3, page 38

Amen.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

AKA Winston. I simply posted the verses that ETT referrenced. I leave it up to her and others to tell her what they say. I didn't see anything in them that said God was greater than us and I don't know what she was trying to get us to think. We shall see.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(As for time...scientists have discovered that time does not exist outside of our universe. If they travel out far enough, then they are not subject to time. And that is where God has his abode, outside of this universe where there is no time.)

ETT,

I don't mean to be cruel, but can you not see that what you have written could equally well have been started with these words: "Once upon a time," or "In a universe, far, far away"...

I mean, does God live where the Gingerbread Man lives along with Hansel and Gretel and the witch who ate them?


AKA Winston 5 years ago

LG,

I know you aren't using quotes that way, but you two guys are simply arguing your opinions - and I always find it amusing when theists argue their opinions invariably one of them quotes from his personal holy book instead of offering reasoned dialogue.

It's like they are saying, see, I'm right, because it says so right here!

Well, in that case I, too, am right that my only mission each time I go up is to come back alive - because it says so right here! Catch-22, Chapter 3, page 38


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Those in possession of true wisdom don't brag about it, they prove it. My point then, is this: I have a difficult time swallowing your self-adulating claim of "reading more books than anyone you know," when right out of the gate you display ignorance on the very faiths you profess to know so very well.

To begin with, Freemasonry is not a religion (at least not from the stance of most Freemasons), the Bible contains the Torah (making your reference to it redundant), and after reading works by the Branch Davidians and the Unabomber, I'm a little surprised you fail to spell the subjects and authors correctly.

I'm rarely if ever this harsh with anyone, but this hub displays such a magnitude of hubris and intellectual arrogance, that I feel it somewhat necessary. Here's an idea, instead of bragging about your prowess in reading comprehension and bashing the conclusion of billions of religious people the world over (some of whom are much smarter than both you and I), how about at least attempting to engage in reasonable and respectful dialogue on the subject?

At risk of displaying the same attitude I am so brashly criticizing, I will say that I have indeed studied the Bible, among other things, in an actual academic setting, but never once would I imply that I have somehow even barely touched on the depths of this subject. There are people out there who have spent their entire lives studying the Bible, people who can speak Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and yet even the majority of them will most likely refrain from the hubris of this painfully inaccurate and divisive hub. I remain ever amazed at the conclusions of persons such as Lady Guinevere, AKA Winston, and fatfist who have clearly never referenced one positive source of Christian scholarship on the subject of the Bible, and who evidently consult only those sources in complete agreement with their own positions. There is so much misinformation and flat-out absurdity within these comments that I scarcely know where to begin.

Well, there's my two cents. I think you are wrong, and I've the credentials to prove it, but HubPages debates just aren't my thing these days. I guess I'm too busy actually studying to waste the time.


PrometheusKid profile image

PrometheusKid 5 years ago from Heaven

Religion may be described as the Waking-Being of a living creature in the moments when it overcomes, masters, denies and even destroys Being. Worldly life and the pulse of its drive dwindles as the eye gaze into an extended, tense and light-filled world, and Time yields to Space.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@jreuter -

(Well, there's my two cents. I think you are wrong, and I've the credentials to prove it, but HubPages debates just aren't my thing these days. I guess I'm too busy actually studying to waste the time.)

Thank you for participating in this HubPages debate! It must have been quite a challenge for you to write so many words. It truly was a giant waste of your time. But I do thank you for pointing out my clerical errors. I have attempted to correct my prose. And you are very entitled to your opinion.

The point of this entire hub was to point out that atheists are not satanists. It sort of took a broader direction than that.

And Winston, fatfist and Lady G are referencing the very source of Christian scholarship! Winston also includes Catch-22 which is a very fine novel written by a Christian, so it counts.

If Christians will just stop telling me what "God" thinks and says and does and let me decide for myself, I will be content.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(I think you are wrong, and I've the credentials to prove it)

jreuter,

This is interesting as I was unaware that one could get credentialed in "I think you are wrong". Is that a Nazarene college offering because it does sound like something my old Dean of Students at Bethany Nazarene would want to teach.

Do you also have credentials for "I'm pretty sure I'm right" and "I can show you where you are wrong"? Those classes, no doubt, are harder to get into.

However, I am giving you an A+ for having the gumption not to quote a single chapter or verse of the bible in your defense - well done.

(who have clearly never referenced one positive source of Christian scholarship on the subject of the Bible, and who evidently consult only those sources in complete agreement with their own positions)

Think about this statement a little, jreuter. Why would I quote a Christian Apologist when I find the logic and refutations unconvincing? Indeed, I research based on the most neutral information I can find. I am aware that scholars have studied these things for centuries. There are now and have always been disagreements and apologists.

What I cannot understand is why believers such as yourself think that anything opposing your views must be "biased".

Does historical fact have a bias against Christianity?

Do you discredit thie idea that there is simply no evidence for an edict from Herod for a census that would send Mary and Joseph back to Bethlehem - that this in all likelihood (around 99.999999999% likelihood) was simply a plot device used by the writer to get Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem as he needed them to be for the sake of the lineage to David - and, of course, it does not match with the manner that had Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem found in a separate gospel tale.

Do you dispute the differences in scripture between the stories of the birth of Jesus?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh no, wait for it.... they're going to come back with the virgin birth theory. Bet me $5 anyone?


Garrett 5 years ago

"If Christians will just stop telling me what "God" thinks and says and does and let me decide for myself, I will be content."

and that is the problem right there, you would rather serve yourself then a perfect God. You suppress the truth because you would rather live in your sin that your conscience testifies as being wrong.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

EmbracingTheTruth,

(Jesus never spoke a lie, if He did, I would like to know what they were.)

You need to go to Church and specifically ask your Pastor to read from the Bible, rather than from the cheat-sheet notes he has written in his palm. This is what I ask of my Pastor every Sunday morning. Here’s what my Pastor read aloud in church:

Matthew 6:26 “26"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.”

But, if birds are fed by God, ten he does one hell of a lousy job at it. Most birds die before leaving the nest, and the few who manage to fly soon die painful deaths of starvation, predation, or disease. If God is caring for them, pray that he stays FAR AWAY from you.

Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into "the greatest of all trees." 13:31-32

So either....

a) Jesus is a LIAR

or

b) Jesus was an escapee from the asylum. Jesus is NO God, nor son of God, nor any other reasonable facsimile thereof.

Like I said, force your Pastor to tell you the lies of Jesus. I have some techniques (I won't discuss here), which will make every Pastor comply!!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

(and that is the problem right there, you would rather serve yourself then a perfect God. You suppress the truth because you would rather live in your sin that your conscience testifies as being wrong.)

"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Please feel free to SERVE your PERFECT gods! Bow down on your knees to some mythical being in the sky. Pray for forgiveness for being created by this PERFECT god. You are a sinner and will go to hell if you don't do this. Have fun!


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(and that is the problem right there,)

Garrett,

Obviously, you got a seat in the "And I can show you where you are wrong" class. How was it?


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

EmbracingTheTruth,

(As for time...scientists have discovered that time does not exist outside of our universe. If they travel out far enough, then they are not subject to time.)

This is pure nonsense, ETT. And we all know that you didn’t even understand a word of it. You fool no one! You are making up things as you go along to protect your irrational ideas.

Time does not exist, period! Time is a concept (specifically a verb) that requires a sentient observer with memory to start an arbitrary counter, a scalar, in order to realize this concept. Time is a number line, like whole numbers is a number line. Time is useful in quantifying motion, and only referenced for that purpose.

And there is NO outside the universe. The universe is a concept that embodies matter and space. You can say that there is an OUTSIDE to matter, since matter has shape and a border, like there is an outside to your house. Outside of matter you will encounter space! But there is NO outside of space. Space is nothing....it has no shape, no border, no boundary to cross and escape.

Even the almighty God is humbled by space. If there is a God, “He” is serving an eternal prison sentence here too, as not even He can escape this unbounded prison which has NO walls to break out of and NO cracks to slip through. So He'd better work hard and earn his keep, just like all the other inmates. Formless & borderless space humbles the most arrogant of gods, even the God of the Bible. Nevertheless, God couldn’t have built this largest of prisons and simultaneously be unable to escape it – it’s impossible! We have “free will” because God does not, as even ‘He’ cannot escape this prison ‘He’ is credited for building. So if God exists, He is just another insignificant being that satisfies the human involuntary compulsion to worship....He may very well be Queen Elizabeth, Lady Gaga, or Tom Cruise. Mindless beings are obsessed with worshipping conceptually-important (authoritative, celebrity, idol) characters.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

jreuter,

(Lady Guinevere, AKA Winston, and fatfist who have clearly never referenced one positive source of Christian scholarship on the subject of the Bible)

Oh, so you think objectivity comes from referencing authorities? Don’t you even understand that you’re committing a logical fallacy: Argument form Authority?

So who is the “authority” on your authority?......and who is the authority on that one?.....and so on..

If YOU cannot explain what you preach, then you obviously haven’t the slightest clue of what you’re talking about. You have no argument.

(and who evidently consult only those sources in complete agreement with their own positions.)

Aha! Now we understand the source of all your troubles. It is your very own Bible which destroys your religion and angers you, huh?

Don’t worry, all it takes is a few consultations with a therapist to get over it.

All you’ve said is NOTHING, jreuter.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(and that is the problem right there....You suppress the truth because you would rather live in your sin that your conscience testifies as being wrong)

Garrett,

The problem as I see it is the arrogance exhibited by theists, notably the more fundamental theist. You claim a knowledge of "truth" without acknowledging truth as nothing other than your opinion, and then you try to project your opinions onto others, stating that

someone would rather "live in your sin that your conscience testifies as being wrong", when you have no way of knowing what someone else feels or believes.

This in psychology, I believe, is termed projecting, and it is a defense mechanism.

All you have done with your opinion is to take the concept of an immaterial being (God), and then because of some feeling this belief induced in YOU, you have reified this concept into an actual being that everyone should "feel", a being who teaches you "the truth" through his word and thus you have the right to share this "universal" way of life because it is absolutely right - based on YOUR FEELINGS. Take note - every step of your journey to belief was subjective.

Your belief is nothing but personal opinion based on your feelings. Not my feelings. Not anyone else's feelings. Your feelings.

Your opinion and your feelings do not apply to me, Austinstar, or anyone else on this planet. If you think they do, then you are projecting.

Think about it.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Winston and FatFist are so eloquent! They can say exactly what I was thinking of saying and have no fear of saying it. Thanks, guys. I love you both. Let's all move to Utah and become mormons so I can have multiple husbands. Oh, sorry, polygamy only applies to mormon men. What was I thinking? But at least mormons don't worship Jesus Christ, who THOUGHT he was telling the truth, but never was.

I think Jesus may have actually been brainwashed/coerced into becoming the "savior". He certainly became the spokesperson for a thriving business that benefited many with money and power. He had a great press agent for sure. He was marketed every bit as successfully as the Luke Skywalker doll or Criss Angel.

Kiss kiss!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

(Let's all move to Utah and become mormons so I can have multiple husbands.)

Oh, I don't know about THAT idea, Austinstar. What am I and all the other fellers supposed to do while you take turns having your way with us? Polygamy, according to Jesus, is supposed to be between one man and multiple women. That’s the way I like it!

And btw, I don’t take turns.....I prefer to have ALL my women get involved ;-)


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I thought you might like to bring your sex slaves along fatfist. What would we do without them?


EmbracingTheTruth 5 years ago

Hi fatfist,

Thanks for answering on behalf of austinstar. First of all I would like to state that I do not go to church, because I know that the pastors lie all the time, and I can't stand to be in the presence of liars. I believe in God, but not in christianity or any religion.

You almost had me with Matthew 6:26. But Jesus does not say that God will protect those birds, or to give them life. But rather that God will feed them...we really shouldn't add to the bible you know.

Now you could say that those birds die because they don't have enough to eat. and if you are going to say that, then why do so many babies die? I am sure they have plenty to eat...but they just die. we are all destined to die, and God has never promised to save us from death, except for the second death.

As for the mustard tree, you got me. But I will not yet say that Jesus lied, because I do not know what words he used in the original language and how they were translated. So I have some studying to do. Thank you!

(And there is NO outside the universe. The universe is a concept that embodies matter and space. You can say that there is an OUTSIDE to matter, since matter has shape and a border, like there is an outside to your house. Outside of matter you will encounter space! But there is NO outside of space. Space is nothing....it has no shape, no border, no boundary to cross and escape.)

And where do you get that information from? I agree that humans cannot leave this universe, but just because we can't does not mean that God cannot exist out there. God is greater than us...He is almighty and all powerful. You saying that He cannot escape His own creation, is like saying that a building crew that builds a house somewhere cannot leave the building they just built.

Time is measured by the sun and moon. One rotation of the earth around the sun is 1 day, and so on. If you could travel outside of this universe where the sun don't shine, you would not be subject to time. And when this age ends, time will end, and the righteous will spend eternity with God.

That is my understanding...and I did not get that from a preacher.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

ETT,

(we really shouldn't add to the bible you know.)

.....nor take away from it.

So why then would Jesus LIE and say that God fed the birds, when they clearly feed themselves?

(But I will not yet say that Jesus lied, because I do not know what words he used in the original language and how they were translated.)

Well then here lies the problem!

Absolutely ALL Bibles should be thrown in the trash except for those in the original language. Otherwise, how is a person to “know” what Jesus “tried to say”? They need to read the original Greek/Aramaic scriptures.

Fatfist: “And there is NO outside the universe. The universe is a concept that embodies matter and space.”

ETT: “And where do you get that information from?”

I give up.....where?

This is not an issue of authority, ETT.....this is an issue of critical thinking & analysis!

Is the Universe an OBJECT? Yes or No? If ‘yes’, then you should have no problem referencing a rough diagram of the Universe and showing that it has ‘shape’ or a ‘border’, ok? Then explain what is outside that border? Space? Bricks? Water? Lava?

The universe is a term (concept) that relates BOTH matter & space.

Is space an OBJECT? Yes or No? If ‘yes’, then you should have no problem illustrating an image of it, or referencing one online!

(God is greater than us...He is almighty and all powerful.)

God can be as POWERFUL as YOU want Him to be. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to escape or transcend that which has NO BORDERS (no shape)....i.e. space.

Space is nothing. It has no shape, no border, no form, no boundary, no structure, no exit point....got it??

SPACE IS INFINITELY MORE POWERFUL THAN GOD.

Space brings God to His knees!

Without space, God cannot exist. Why? Because God would lose His most precious superpower....FORM! God would not be an entity if He is not separated from the background. God would be nothing! Either God is SOMETHING or NOTHING. Without form, God is NOT an entity, but nothing.

Without space, God would not be able to move. Only spatial separation allows for movement!

Space was there BEFORE God. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to create space (nothing). Nothing cannot be created – it is not subject to creation (verb). Motion (verb/create) cannot be imparted on nothing....got it?

Space is OMNIPRESENT.....God isn’t!

And unlike God, space is OMNIPOTENT, as it cannot be created or destroyed.

(You saying that He cannot escape His own creation)

Because He did not CREATE anything. Creation is impossible! A First Uncaused Cause is impossible! I have a hub explaining the reasons why. Read it and explain to me why it is wrong. The universe is ETERNAL.

(If you could travel outside of this universe where the sun don't shine, you would not be subject to time.)

Nonsense! Gibberish!

There is NO outside to the concept of “Universe” – reread what I explained to you before.

I have several places in my body where the Sun don’t shine. Are they subject to time?

Is ‘time’ like a pair of handcuffs that restricts motion? If so, please illustrate an image of this little critter you call time, otherwise you’ve said nothing.

You are NEVER subject to time. Time is a verb, not an object.

You can only be subject (under the influence) of an OBJECT that imparts surface-to-surface contact with you.

(And when this age ends, time will end)

Beginnings & endings are products of human conception. When the last human dies, the verb ‘time’ will end as well, just like the verb “running”. Why? Because there will be no human around to keep track of a counter in memory. There will be nobody around to measure the metric counter of motion.

This is basic stuff. Do yourself a favour and learn it.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@ETT - I know FatFist can be a little hyper on this subject, so I will try to explain it in simple 0, 1, 2, 3 terms and you will be able to understand why there is no "outside" of the universe or time itself.

You use the analogy of someone creating a building and then stepping outside of it. Why yes, they can! But the building AND the outside of it are still part of the universe which has no "outside".

Using your building as a reference point, and god as the builder of that building, he can step 5 feet away from his building. Then, should he want to, he can step 10 feet away from his building, then he can get in his car and drive 10 miles away from his building, then he can get in a spaceship and travel 1 light year away from his building, then he hit the booster on his spaceship and travel 10 billion, billion light years away from his building, he can keep refueling and boosting until he is 10 gazillion gillion billion quadrillion light years away from his building. But guess what? He's STILL in the universe and he can never travel to the "outside" of it because there IS no "outside". This is called infinite space and it is also called the "universe".

Now time....

Consider this second as a zero reference in time. (Time doesn't really exist, just the measurement of time exists). So, right this second is the zero second. One second before the zero second is -1, 2 seconds before zero is -2, 3 seconds before zero is -3. Well, again, we can go as far back in "time" as 100 billion years and call it -4. The same for the "future". One second from the zero point is +1, 2 seconds from the zero point is called +2, then +3 and so on and so on for 500 gazillion billion seconds and so on. So the definition of infinite time is a measurement from the zero point. And no matter how far you go back in time, you can always go back another second or two or three; and no matter how far ahead you look, there will always be another second after that and another and another and another on until infinite "time". Therefore there is no beginning and there is no end.

The same is true for space, "time", and infinite matter. See if you can figure out how infinite matter can exist without "god". Give it a try. Really think about it. Maybe read some physics books. If you still don't get it, then come back and I'll try to explain it in these simple 0, 1, 2, 3 terms.

Infinity has always existed, it exists now, and it will always exist. No God needed.

Enjoy the universe!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

ETT,

If there was only the Sun and the Earth in the entire universe, and they had no motion, then humans would not be able to conceive of time as we use it today. One side of the Earth would always be day and the other always night. So humans would need to devise a different “counting mechanism” in order to segment BEFORE and AFTER events for the purposes of organizing their lives. The “second” they would implement in such a situation would come from a computerized “counter” which counts, say, 3 of our current seconds.......or even 1/1000. It would be arbitrary and subject to vote by some authority. It has absolutely nothing to do with nature or reality. It would be a convenient standard that is conceived, implemented, and “enforced” by humans. Time is artificial.

If we are going to use “motion” to quantify time, then we need a minimum of 3 objects - no less. Two objects could be the Earth and the Sun, where one moves relative to the other. The third object would be an observer with MEMORY......like a human who counts, or a computer that keeps a running total of the “ticks” from arbitrarily-defined seconds.

Since the Earth moves wrt the Sun, humans chose the “motion” method to quantify (count) the motion of the Earth. Humans call this activity (VERB).....time! The ancients already understood this “quantifying motion” idea and thus used SUNDIALS to “count” the movement of the Sun across the sky as a shadow cast on the sundial.

Without a minimum of 3 objects (2 moving wrt each other), quantifying motion is impossible, and there is no concept of time (as a motion quantifier).

Without humans or sentient beings with “memory”, there is no activity that can be performed to “discern” before & after for events (verbs). Since there would be nobody around to “count” motion, then there would be no deliberate “human” or “computer” activity (verb) that we currently call “time”.

The universe has no built-in clock. Sadly, most people on the planet “believe” otherwise. They think that a magical spirit called “time” allows us the freedom to move. They think that if time stopped, the whole universe would stop (or at least the Earth & Sun and all life).

Q: Where did they get this SILLY idea from?

A: From The Twilight Zone episode “A Kind of Stopwatch” which aired in 1963.

I remember my high school Physics teacher telling us this time nonsense in class. He could not tell us why the whole universe would “freeze”. He only asserted that it must freeze because he said so. It turned out that he was a huge fan of the Twilight Zone.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(If you are truly an athiest then you would be living for the moment )

Kurt,

Amazingly consistent - here is another theist who simply says, because what I believe is right, everyone else should act the way I think they should act, and I am sad because I can't make them do it.

Protestant Evangelical Christians are the ultimate controllers, and they are experts in the use of passive-aggressive techniques to control.

(I believe in God, but not in christianity or any religion.)

ETT,

I don't know about the lies of Jesus but you seem to have been busted.

(...and God has never promised to save us from death, except for the second death.)

(when this age ends, time will end, and the righteous will spend eternity with God.)

(You almost had me with Matthew 6:26. But Jesus does not say that God will protect those birds, or to give them life. But rather that God will feed them)

I don't know, but that all sounds a lot like Christian religious dogma to me, and a final Christian apology for the bible and Jesus, to boot.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@ETT - (Let me ask you...do you have children that you love? And if you do, when they do not obey, do you not send them into a corner, to their rooms or at least find a way to punish them? You do it not because you are being mean, but because they need to learn how to properly respect authority. You do it because you love them.)

I do have a child and I do love him, but I would never consider punishing him if he didn't "worship" me.

(Why does God feel the need to judge his own creations? Because God loves his people and he wants that they should live with him for all eternity. But he does not want that any of them be tormented, or live among sin. Therefore he has to eliminate those souls that would corrupt to attempt to corrupt the ones who genuinely worship Him. No one is a failure, or a success...but rather there are those who obey, and those who don't.)

This is the god you worship? The one who would "eliminate those souls" that he, himself "created". The one who wants only slaves to "obey" him? How do you breathe surrounded by all that B.S.?


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(Therefore he has to eliminate those souls that would corrupt...there are those who obey, and those who don't.)

This sounds like the justification claimed by the fundamentalist Muslim terrorist.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I know, these fundamentalists just insist on doing God's thinking for him. Apparently, they have the right to speak for their "creator" as long as they OBEY the invisible one.

Anyone who doesn't will just go straight to hell and worship satan whether they believe in that or not. Because, by God, they WILL OBEY some invisible being! It's fundamental!


ImmacCon 5 years ago

With all due respect, atheist do worship Satan. Just because you don't believe in the existence of Satan (or God) doesn't mean that you aren't doing his will. As a matter of fact, your lack of belief is part of his perfect plan. By not believing, in him or God, it accomplishes the same as believing in him and building an altar in your garage to sacrifice chimpunks in his unholy name! Your lack of belief doesn't change the fact of his existence and the fact that you are playing into his hands anymore than wishing water would run uphill would cause it do so. Simple fact.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

ImmacCon - You are the very reason I wrote this hub! Thank you. BTW, you are an IDIOT! I use hamsters, not chipmunks. Chipmunks don't have a soul, Hamsters do and are Satan's favorite snack. He told me so last night over a cocktail. It was cherry flavored and sweet. I think he said it was the "Blood of Christ". Yummy!


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(As a matter of fact, your lack of belief is part of his perfect plan.)

ImmacCon,

So, Lucifer is imperect but he still has the ability to create a perfect plan? But wait. If Lucifer is a fallen angel, he can't be perfect, and he then originally must have been one of God's creations, so Lucifer and his imperfection must be part of God's origianl plans and therefore Lucifer's perfect plan is really a subplot of God's great big PERFECTER plan.

So by disbelieving, we are following God's giant economy size perfect plan to have Lucifer's king size perfect plan work to perfection.

Is that about it?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

At first I thought the acronym was for "immaculate conception", but now I think it's for "I'm a CON". It could even be a sock puppet for one of the religionists here on hubpages.

(With all due respect, atheist do worship Satan.) At least he/she respects me, LOL! even if he/she is so totally ignorant.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

No they have this crazy notion that if you don't beleive in their way then you are that way. How stupid does that sound--VERY. If you don't beleive in Satan then you are him..........so would that also work for if you don't believe in God then you are him? hmmmmm???????


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 5 years ago from BC, canada

(With all due respect, atheist do worship Satan.) At least he/she respects me, LOL! even if he/she is so totally ignorant.

with all due respect true satanists worship satan the concept, satan is not a personified entity, satan is the embodiment of all sensuous and self satisfying internal desires and appetites of humans.

and as far an immaculate conception goes. Figure a spirit who can create the universe from nothing. Now tell me that fertilizing an egg behind the hymen is impossible for God. I do not live such a limited life.


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(Figure a spirit who can create the universe from nothing. Now tell me that fertilizing an egg behind the hymen is impossible for God.)

brotheryochanan,

In 520 A.D. an anonymous monk recorded the life of Saint Genevieve, who had died only ten years before. In his account, he describes how, when she ordered a cursed tree cut down, monsters sprang from it and breathed a fatal stench on many men for two hours; while she was sailing, eleven ships capsized, but at her prayers they were righted again spontaneously; she cast out demons, calmed storms, miraculously created water and oil from nothing, healed the blind and lame, and several people who stole things from her went blind.

Do you think God and Saint Genevieve had the same publicist?


AKA Winston 5 years ago

(Figure a spirit who can create the universe from nothing. Now tell me that fertilizing an egg behind the hymen is impossible for God. I do not live such a limited life.)

brotheryochanan,

What makes me shake my head about your quote is that I bet you have no clue as to how and why an immaculate conception story came to be in the bible in the first place, the misunderstanding that caused the story to be included, why the virgin birth story is not repeated in all the Gospels, or that a virgin birth was not part of early Christian beliefs.

Yet you use that same immaculate conception legend to defend your concept of an immaterial God who can do anything - even the irrational and illogical.

That's just weird.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh, I knew the virgin birth would show up!

I work in the medical field. I can prove that virgin births occur even today! The hymen does not seal the vagina (that's how menstrual flow comes OUT of virgins.) And sperm can get IN! The hymen does not have to be ruptured before pregnancy can occur. There are many cases of pregnancy with an intact hymen, so I know for a fact that immaculate conception doesn't need a god.

Thank you for acknowledging that it is Satanists that worship satan, not atheists.


qwark profile image

qwark 5 years ago

Hi Austinstar:

I'm happy you became a "follower."

Why? Because I always read a "hub" written by a new friend and in doing so,I was introduced to your work.

Thanks for that opportunity!

Great "hub!"

Qwark


fatfist profile image

fatfist 5 years ago

Austinstar,

(I can prove that virgin births occur even today! The hymen does not seal....)

But this is Evil Materialistic Science..LOL. Theists are so deluded, that they make up their own excuses for everything, and end up call it "reality".

I recently had the pleasure of conversing with an escapee from the asylum who claimed to be God. He claimed that Christians have it all WRONG about Jesus and God. He said that he is God, and he created Jesus and the whole universe in his "dream". We are all supposedly living in "his" dream. We are all figments of his imagined creation....which gets "created" as soon as he thinks about it. But he was quite pissed with me when I ripped all his bullshit to shreds. So I guess he didn't like how his "dream" turned into a nightmare....

Everyone needs to look into this sick and twisted delusional world of these psychopaths. Only then can you begin to understand why these lesser-evolved apes have been killing everything within their reach for over 2000 years.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Well, they are forced to believe in their delusions! If they didn't believe in their parent's doctrine, they were SPANKED! If they don't believe in the delusions today, they'll be punished for ETERNITY!

I really feel sorry for people that believe the big religion delusion of mankind. And all of the children that they force the delusion on to.

But it is a fact that 75% of all the humans on earth are in the lower 3/4th of the intelligent scale. Fully 50% of them are below average!

And nothing can change that.


georgethegent profile image

georgethegent 4 years ago from Hillswick, Shetland, UK

You make one comment there that I really picked up on Austinstar. Man created God - how true, how very, very true.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I am sorry you are so confused. Good luck with that "no evil" thing.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

WD, I am not confused. I have put the facts together and come to the conclusion that religion is a fantasy world based on hearsay and legends.

A thing is 'evil' only if you judge it to be evil. It is just an opinion of a thing. Fire is evil if it kills and not evil if it warms us on a cold night. Really? Do you think maybe it's just FIRE? It doesn't express evil in and of itself. You must judge it to be evil or good.

This is how you LABEL things. It's called bigotry.

Religionists have tons of bigotry to spare. I know this from personal concrete physical and emotional experiences.

Bigotry is why religionists LABEL atheists to be "satanists". They judge it to be so.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

You don't get it. They aren't calling atheists satanists. They are saying satan is the deluding influence hidden behind the scenes. Your whole premise is based on misinterpretation.

Spell check wants me to capitalize satan.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Spell check wants me to capitalize satan also.

I wrote this hub because I was accused of being a satanist.

You are correct though, she should have called atheists people who are deluded by Satan. Although that is incorrect as to what atheists are.

Satanists are deluded by Satan (purportedly), not atheists who do not believe in any deity.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Personally, I do not worry about the influences behind beliefs. I worked at a mental health facility for adolescents as a vocational instructor for ten years. There can be no discrimination there, period. I worked closely with all types. We became like family. One of my favorite people, and most effective teachers turned out to be Wiccan, one was a Mormon, one was an atheist, one was gay, and like that. It was kind of don't ask, don't tell, but we all knew.

In Florida it is illegal to talk the way we do around here about religion, sex, and politics in the work place. We would all be fired, some fined, and some do 120 days in jail.

Maybe we should put all of that stuff on the back burner. There is a lot of work to do. Can you imagine the power we would have as united front? We did a bang up job at Devereux.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

It is an absolute certainty that religion, sex and politics are divisive. It's a major wonder that you work at a place that is so "socially correct" I fantasize about a world like that.

Why can't we all get along? The things we could do!


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I don't work there anymore, I am a free lance artist, and part time hack writer. The rules forced us to be correct, but we often took it to the edge. It was not advisable to go too far, even in jest. Once you got used to it, it was easy to be accepting. After 10 years of it, it seems weird when people don't adhere to those rules in public. I have found myself correcting people, like I would remind a fellow employee, which is weird, too.

Anyway, we can all get along. Maybe we are insecure. In my case, I grew up in an Air Force family. I was always the new kid and people want to try you. Sorry, bad idea, "That new kid fights dirty!" I also went to military school in high school. Although I would rather be more like Jesus, I often turn my butt cheek when I am slapped instead of the one I am supposed to. Somehow, the negative stuff is ingrained in my subconscious and I don't take s**t without flinging some back.

This is my first social experience on the internet, and the very first thing, people started giving me s**t. I have gotten an unsolicited ration of it around here. I find myself doing what I did growing up. Whenever I run into an antagonist around town, I start up with them and teach them not to give me S**t at school.

Let's not fantasize, let's dream . . . we can make our dreams come true. Instead of being polarized by emphasizing our differences, we should search for common ground. What made it easier at Devereux was the job at hand. The kids needed us, and they came first. Is there a need we can serve to bring us into step?


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Sorry, one more thought. If you dream about such a world, then why the provocative hub? At Devereux they would walk you out the door and send your effects later.

As I read the comments, it struck me. These folks don't realize what a bunch of brazen hypocrites they are being. You are directing all of your venomous comments at a hypothetical extreme. "Christians are this, they say that." Them, they, those who ain't like us. Those lowdown lousy Christians. Let's get so worked up over this nonsense that we burn them at the stake!"

Is that the next step? I have not experienced this this animosity since I got beat up in Alabama for talking with the only black girl in school.

I ran across them one by one and taught them some respect.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Sorry, one more thought. If you dream about such a world, then why the provocative hub? At Devereux they would walk you out the door and send your effects later.

As I read the comments, it struck me. These folks don't realize what a bunch of brazen hypocrites they are being. You are directing all of your venomous comments at a hypothetical extreme. "Christians are this, they say that. Them, they, those who ain't like us. Those lowdown lousy Christians. Let's get so worked up over this nonsense that we burn them at the stake!"

Is that the next step? I have not experienced so much animosity from a group since I got beat up in Alabama for talking with the only black girl in school.

As time went on, I ran across them one by one and taught them some respect.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Sorry, WD, I, like you, feel that I should not take shit from others. Calling me a satanist set me off. I'm sure you did not read that hub, or you might have understood the animosity.

I live in the bible belt and I really get tired of pretending to be supportive of my "christian" neighbors. And it is true that they are an easy target.

My hubs are not usually religious, but when I am accused of something I am not, I will stand my ground.

My goal would be to have everyone accept each other as they are and quit giving people derogatory labels and practicing bigotry.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Okay, we are a little bit alike. We probably should be willing to take shit and take the high road. We are working on it, right. It isn't easy for me. I guess I am set in my ways. I will probably run out of time before I get all the way there.

I live in the bible belt too. I am a Christian, but I get irked all the time. I know Texas. It may be the worst for overblown Christian culture, unless you are out in Sweetwater or something. They love their mega church pomp and circumstance out that way. Some of the churches remind me of an airport terminal with gift shops, and Starbucks and like that.

If you are broke, you have to watch everyone else eat sweet rolls before the service. Starbucks ain't free.

My buddy is an atheist and the head of the ACLU around here. When I shared a concern for a kid at Devereux (locked facility) who wanted to go to a little church in town to be baptized (they had been doing a ministry at the facility and he was moved) he got the ACLU after them and the kid was on his way to get dunked in no time. I never expected that. I was just venting. The kid took it that the Lord did a miracle and he had a complete turn around. He had been a very dangerous punk. I also know a kid who embraced Islam who did the same.

That was very thoughtful of my buddy considering he thinks it is all nonsense. He understands the role of religion in other peoples lives and it doesn't bother him. He just doesn't want it for himself. He can only tolerate it long enough to tell you he isn't interested. I wouldn't recommend pushing the issue with him. Still, he went to bat for the kid because of his strong belief in American values . . . freedom of religion, or not.

I am sorry some fool got in your face. They would do well to follow the advice of St. Francis, "Preach the gospel everywhere you go, but use words sparingly as a last resort."

Most atheists are thinkers and accept responsibility to be fair and moral within themselves. They usually strive to elevate humanity, and don't feel a need for a boss. I think of atheist as self employed. They usually resent scare tactics, because they don't need them to be "good".

Peace, sister, its all good . . . no worries.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

@fatfist - You are advertising your ignorance of ancient culture. They didn't think of sex as a carnival ride like you and I do. The woman wanted a baby. It was a big deal back then. They valued pregnancy above almost everything else. If the guy wasn't interested, or pulled up lame at the post and could't deliver, she was off the hook for the coin. Big daddy couldn't seal the deal.

For the sake of understanding . . . that stuff was all nailed to the cross. Those are not Christian values. it was a whole different mogan.

Show respect, you sound like an ass.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

fatfist hasn't been around in a while. He is a bit radical for sure. But he did love to vent. He may have been banned. Who knows?

I shall endeavor to take your friends advice which is very similar to the American value of "I may not agree on what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

My bad again. I was editing my post to temper it quite a bit. When I finished, Quark had already sucked it up the tube. I'm sure 5 minutes hadn't passed. I am a right brained artist, I need Adobe.

fatfist is dang funny, though!


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

Hi Austinstar..

Like you, i am an avid reader. Scrolled on by cos of my good friend WD above.

You gotta realise, this good friendship existed BEFORE we met (in writing) about 14 days ago ONLY.

Sound cryptic ? Sure is. Time is a very curious EVENT.

The GOOD thing about The Past IS that we have records to verify stuff.

These days, not much happens without some paper or digital trail being left behind it.

This brings me to why i am "Typing" (double meaning INTENDED)

Whilst reading you hub, came across this quote :

"However, it has been over 30 years since I read it the last time and I never memorized it or even memorized some of it."

An Amazing Book The Holy Bible...

Doesn't matter what people theorise, One Massive Stream of The Writings therein ARE Clearly HISTORICAL RECORDS.

i happen to be an amateur history buff.

BUT, what i REALLY LOVE is Prophecy.

Amazing The Amount Of Prophecies In The Most Holy Bible.

Been studying them perpetually since mid AD 1985 (Hawaii).

Been studying History also (i LOVE His-Story)...

You know what is so VERY Curious Austinstar ??? (hope we get on real first name terms in the due course of "TIME" - my REAL name IS Elijah - + 7 was still available - COOL)

And before you contemplate the answer to this rhetorical question, you may as well know, my IQ was found to be off the chart when tested in Hawaii in 1986 (never done it before nor since) i was just told it was Superior, after the Test was over and i had glanced at a requested 21 digit number ONCE, and then four days later gave it to the examiner backwards, and then forwards.

He had to go check his notes and found his Social Security number was in the centre.

This occurred because i had been street preaching in Honolulu (on vacation from The Big island) and made friends with an atheist IQ intellectual buff.

After Preaching to him for a while, he asked for A Sign from God that everything i TOLD him was REALLY TRUE.

He got TWO Replies over TWO DAYS.

One was a "DIRECT HIT" and the Second One produced a 7.7 earthquake in the Aleutian Island Chain and put the ENTIRE STATE ON TSUNAMI ALERT; the wave was scheduled to strike some 3 hours and 10 minutes after the BIGGEST QUAKE on US territory in its history (or so the news reports say)...The Wave went UNDER The State...His name was Ross - never saw him again after the IQ test was completed....Vacation was over and went back to The Volcano Isle.

And my Point IS [re :rhetorical question] ??? (i DON'T lie)

The Historical Records in the Old Testament run side by side with The Prophecies, ALWAYS separated by proveable Time Periods, that is to "Say" The Prophecies ALWAYS Precede The Historical Records.

Now wait, i aint finished....

Now we go to the 27 books of The NEW Testament. (my birthday is on the 27th July and i was 21 on 27/7/77 - Now we go to the 27 books of The New Testament. (my birthday is on the 27th July and i was 21 on 27/7/77 - True)..[including the AE grapheme / ash in my mother tongue (Born Again In England) there are ACTUALLY 27 letters in the alphabet] - One for each History Book in The NEW Testament.

Within these Awesome 27 "Books", Pin Point Accurate Historical Records, CORROBORATED by multiple eye Witness Accounts, CONTAIN The Fulfillment Of HUNDREDS & HUNDREDS of "OLD" Testament Prophecies..

Now hold up a "Moment"; before you say anything, THIS DOESN'T STOP by AD 100 (there and abouts)...NO NO NO ....

Here's the Cracker for you :

BOTH OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT PROPHECIES can be Readily Discovered in Accurate and Proveable Historical Records (OUTSIDE Of The New Testament), from AD 0 until....hmmmmmm.....wellll... (scroll down a bit)......

Thinking.....

Still Thinking......

Oh yeah, Got It : 1908, 1914-18, 1938-1945, 1945-1948 (NOTE WELL 1948), 1949 - to NOW, The 1950s, 1960, 6/6/1966, 1967, 1975, 1985, 1991, (1999 extra-Biblical from my old friend Nostradamus but he was out by 2 years to 2001 9/11 [had a dream about that one a MONTH before the event AND this One IS In The Book Of Isaiah]; 2003 in Iraq, Boxing Day 2004 (December 26th for the Americans) - Indian Ocean, and more until NOW.

HOWEVER, my ALL TIME Favourite Started in AD 570 and by AD 624 had REALLY KICKED OFF....UNTIL The Biggy - AD 685 - AD 692 and THEN Onwards UNTIL RIGHT NOW TODAY !!!

This nasty little epoch is ALL IN ONE Chapter, In One Book : Daniel Chapter Eleven [534 BC] - (kindda has a "Ring" to it right?)..Daniel was Writing from 607 BC thru 534 BC..

Anyhow, don't want to spoil ALL The Future Fun for you...

Enough to say this : Daniel Chapter Eleven CONTAINS : The Birth, History and Final Demise of "islam" and INCLUDES :

Jerusalem's capture in the 7th Century. The capture of Persia, Egypt, Libya, Ethiopia, Jordan et al...

The entire Crusades' Era AD 1071/1096 - AD 1272 (with the French Fortress that STILL STANDS TODAY - specifically mentioned)

The mamluk empire until its end in 1914-1918 (Battle of Megiddo ring any bells ??)..

The ayatollah khomeini in AD 1985 - (this is getting HOT)..

Georgie baby - AD 2003 - AD 2011 (officially) but it AINT OVER YET, by a Long Tomahawk - [Assyria]...The Burning "Bush"..

(Also in Isaiah, Jeremiah and The Holy Book of Revelation)..

Look....i have probably "Typed" enough...EXCEPT...Daniel Chapter Eleven HAS The End From The Beginning and The Beginning From The End....(of "islam")

Will only leave you now with THREE THINGS to ponder :

1). Daniel Chapter Eleven HERE :

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel...

2). The Prophecy of "mosques" [Daniel 11 : 45] especially those in Israel (below).

3). A humble request : Please try reading The Book of books AGAIN, but slow on down, and "drink in The Literary Spendour".

We WILL Pray NOW, In JESUS' IMMACULATE NAME, That The Holy Spirit will HELP you "personally" to "See" The Glorious REAL Truth Of ALL The Ages, from 4000 BC thru AD 100 and on into NOW - Amen & Amen

This Link WILL help a lot to get started :

http://www.constellation7.org/TheSimplePrayerOfFai...

Some nice music also freely donated here to Bless you (you like music right?) CRANK UP THE VOLUME, this is well worth it [Right Click the Link and OPEN in a New Tab to remain on your hub page] :-

http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/Theres-A-...

Enjoy Immensely with ALL our Blessings - Selah...

Oh yeah - "mosques" AND the promised END of "islam" :-

† DANIEL 11 : 45 †

"And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Elijah7 - I let this rambling comment stand, but please do not do it again.

Your comment makes absolutely no sense to me and has no bearing on the subject. It sounds like you are proselytizing and this is not the forum for that.

In other words, please go elsewhere.


Elijah7 profile image

Elijah7 4 years ago from Israel - England - Hong Kong - Hawaii - Paradise

No - sorry you think this - not the intent at all. The whole point was simply to elaborate on your own hub. After all where does the word "satan" come from in the first place.

PLEASE, don't be offended - i ramble a lot, but there is A Point if you take a little time...

The Post was Inspired by your hub title and that one paragraph :

"However, it has been over 30 years since I read it the last time and I never memorized it or even memorized some of it."

Only wanted to show you a different MUCH MORE EXCITING Picture from that of the current trend against Christianity...

Take a little time to read slowly..Enquiry is a Good Thing...

i am a professional Holy Bible teacher...that's it... don't like that word "proselytizing" not even one bit.

You have a nice photo face that reminded me of an old friend of mine from Canada - Melanie...(thought it WAS her for a moment)

i live in Hong Kong right now and she used to until 1991.

Never mind ...Bless you in ALL things...Amen

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