Why the Big Bang Theory is Wrong.

The Universe

Astronomy photo of the day. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Astronomy photo of the day. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Optimism or Pessimism

I think I started taking personality tests back in Jr. High. Without exception, every one I’ve ever taken in my 50+ years has given me the definitive classification of a Realist, a person who sees things as they truly are.

For instance, the classic test of determining whether a glass of water is “half full” or “half empty” is supposed to indicate whether or not you are an optimist or a pessimist. I swear every time I look, all I ever see is a glass with water in it. Whether it is half full or half empty is a matter of opinion.

Realism versus Opinion

Is it half full, half empty or simply a glass with some water in it?
Is it half full, half empty or simply a glass with some water in it? | Source

Emotions and Art

This does not mean that I have no emotions. Whenever I look at a good piece of art, I do feel sadness, happiness, or whatever emotion the piece is trying to convey. But the art itself does not have any magical, mythical, or god-like quality. It’s just art and the depiction of a scene. It’s probably a hormonal response like love or hate.

So what does all this have to do with the Big Bang Theory or the God Theory? Well, if you look at the reality of the universe, and I do, then you will see it for what it really is. It’s not magical, mythical, or god-like. It just is.

Theoretical Physicists and God and the Universe

The physicists have nearly got it. The universe is composed of mostly empty space (infinite) and a large amount of matter (infinite) being held together by some sort of energy or attraction. It’s kind of like electricity or magnetism or gravitational pull. But it’s not mythical, magical, or god-like. No one gives electricity magical, mythical, or god-like powers anymore. We can see it, touch it, feel it, and measure it. One day, we will be able to do the same for whatever it is that flows through the universe.

As far as the Big Bang idea goes, sure it appears to us that the universe is expanding and contracting and maybe it actually is. But to postulate that the universe started from some mythical little dot and then just exploded into the universe as we know it today is just an idea, a sort of explanation. If you understand the concept that matter cannot be created because it is, in reality, impossible to create matter out of nothing, then you must also accept the fact that all matter in the universe already exists, it has always existed, and it always will exist. Matter can’t be destroyed either, because, really, where would it go? All of the matter, time, and space in the universe just changes form or appearance or location. Or we look at it through a different perspective. Nothing wrong with that.

The Concept of Infinity

This is the concept of infinity, an infinite amount of existing matter, an infinite amount of existing space, and an infinite amount of existing time. Most humans can’t understand this concept so therefore they created magic, myth, and god-like entities to try to explain it. But if you are a realist like me, it needs no explanation. We can see it, touch it, feel it, and measure it. We live in this universe. Every bit of matter is here, the energy is here, the space is here, and time is here, infinitely. If you believe in magic, mythology, or god-like beings, then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it! Enjoy!

Three Different Views on Life, the Universe and Everything

Religion
Science
Realism
God did it
Facts versus Beliefs
What you see is what you get

The Big Bang Theory

One of my favorite TV shows!
One of my favorite TV shows! | Source

Math, Science, History

Unravelling the mystery

That all started with the big bang!

— Bare Naked Ladies

Summing it all up

The universe and all that it is has always been here, will always be here, and is here now. This is something I can see, touch, hear, feel, and smell. When I die, I may become earth, then later on a rock, then later on something else. But I will always exist in one form or another. Life goes on and nothing is ever really dead.

Your Personal Theory

Do you lean toward Religious theories or Scientific ones?

  • Religious
  • Scientific
  • Spiritual (Non Religious)
  • Neither or none of the above
See results without voting

© 2010 Austinstar

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Comments- What is your opinion? 84 comments

prasetio30 profile image

prasetio30 6 years ago from malang-indonesia

As a human we can't predict anything against the God law. Gos have a role in creating the world and manage the universe. Big bang just a theory, but to control the universe in a God hand. Thank you for great topic. I hope it can increase our spirituality.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 6 years ago from Chicago

If you don't believe in God, how do you figure this Earth, teeming with life, got here?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Like I said, it's always been here in one form or another. You have been told all your life that God created this. It's hard for me to understand why that concept keeps being perpetuated by so many.

There are many cultures that believe in the infinite existence of the universe.

I must ask you, "Where did God come from?" If he is indeed part of the universe, then he has ALWAYS BEEN HERE! and you and I and god are all part of this and we have always existed in some form or another. We are the universe!


Michael Shane profile image

Michael Shane 6 years ago from Gadsden, Alabama

Interesting hub! i think all people have asked the same question in their mind as you mentioned to James, Where did God come from? Look, I'm trying not to sound like a smarty pants but my question is, "Have you tried asking him yourself?" The only answer that I have found is what surrounds me which is Earth, Wind, Fire, & Water....The 4 keys to life & existence! However, that's just me talking...


Chaotic Chica profile image

Chaotic Chica 6 years ago

Fantastic hub Austinstar!!!! I love it, I love the way you presented this and I love that you did it all without using any demeaning conontations towards the opinion of others! Very well thought out, very well written!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

(Well, if you look at the reality of the universe, and I do, then you will see it for what it really is. It’s not magical, mythical, or god-like. It just is.)

Wow! A person who can actually “think” for herself on HubPages? It can’t be true, I must be dreaming!

You hit the nail right on the head, Austinstar. The universe is not supernatural, as many theists & mathematicians would like you to believe. The universe is composed of physical objects within space (nothing). We interact with the universe every second of our lives. Nothing magical about that.

(But to postulate that the universe started from some mythical little dot and then just exploded into the universe as we know it today is just theory.)

You are giving them too much credit, Austinstar. A Theory is simply a “rational explanation”. The Big Bang Theory is not even a “supernatural” explanation, let alone Theory.

A dot is this ---> .

A dot is a 2-dimensional shape – a concept. A dot does not exist. What exists, is the paper & ink that allow us to conceive this concept (shape) and call it a ‘dot’.

The question to ask the Big Bang idiots is: How can this 2D conceptual dot exist in space, when it doesn’t even exist on a piece of paper?

Then just sit back, and watch how they try to dance around this question!

I wouldn’t even bother asking them how this ‘dot’ can explode and expand, especially when they haven’t a clue what a ‘dot’ is...LOL

(If you understand the concept that matter cannot be created because it is, in reality, impossible to create matter out of nothing, then you must also accept the fact that all matter in the universe already exists, it has always existed, and it always will exist. Matter can’t be destroyed either, because, really, where would it go?)

Wow again! You have a solid understanding of the basics of physics. Why is it that all these decorated so-called “scientists” don’t get it?

Are you single by any chance??

Great hub. You put 99% of the so-called "scientists" on this planet to shame!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Howdy Fatfist! I've been following you for a while. You not only make sense but your avatar looks like Robert Shaw from Jaws, one of my favorite movies and book.

You have three chances of me being single - fat, slim, and no.

Who is the 1% of "scientists" that I haven't put to shame yet? I love to argue with those guys. They just can't convince me that supernatural is the way to go. Or even that faith doesn't have to have physical proof (the final argument). LOL.

There is one question that a rocket scientist asked me one time, "Why are parts of the universe dark?" I haven't found a good answer for that yet. I'm thinking it's a matter of perspective. We see things as being "dark" or "light" or shades of that nature, but they are in reality something else. Blind people can't see dark or light, but sighted people see whatever it is that we call dark or light. The reality of these things may be something else entirely and someday we may "see" the thing that we call "dark". Gee I hope that made sense.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Austinstar,

(your avatar looks like Robert Shaw from Jaws)

Yep, and just like in Jaws, his visual persona works really well at pissing off whomever argues with me :-)

(There is one question that a rocket scientist asked me one time, "Why are parts of the universe dark?" I haven't found a good answer for that yet.)

Little children ask ‘Why is the day sky blue?’

Grown-ups instead have asked for the last 400 years ‘Why is the night sky black?’

Your friend was alluding to what is called Olber’s Paradox which argues: since the night sky is covered with stars in every direction, then why isn’t it all bright white?

The reason the night sky is black has to do with distance. Galaxies and stars are simply too far away for the majority of their light to reach us. Newton already answered this question by arguing that the universe had to be infinite. If the entire sky is not lit up with starlight it is because matter has lumped into islands here and there.

“if the matter was evenly diffused through an infinite space, it would never convene into one mass but some of it convene into one mass and some into another so as to make an infinite number of great masses scattered at great distances from one to another throughout all the infinite space. (Correspondence, 234)” – Issac Newton

Therefore, there may be a star in every direction, but in most regions of the sky they would be so far away that we couldn’t see them. This is simple to visualize. Just give your friend a flashlight and tell him to go to the end of the street. You will notice that the farther he goes from you, the smaller & dimmer the light source will appear to you. The larger the distance, the more the light gets dispersed outward in a “cone”. And a smaller portion of the cone’s light is reaching your eyes.

Newton had the correct solution to this problem. The lamebrains that came afterwards just got sidetracked on irrelevant mathematical nonsense. The idiots of Relativity attempted to explain the dark night sky, by claiming that if we do not see distant stars, it is because space is expanding and making the night sky darker. And yet they cannot tell you how space (which is nothing) can possibly expand!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I'm not quite convinced that space is *nothing*. To me everything exists including things that appear empty. The distance between two points of light is something. We call that something, space. Just by having a name it becomes something.

Now some might argue that because you cannot see god, it must not exist. But even god by virtue of having a name does indeed exist. However, the magical powers that come with the name *god* are just not there. They are imaginary. They are an *opinion* or *belief*.

Things that we cannot see, touch, feel, smell, hear, or be made aware of through physical demonstration are just *magic* to us humans. The dark of the sky can be seen and I'm certain it is because of the vast distances that light must travel as you explain very well, but I still can't believe it is nothing. I think the rocket scientist may score a point on this one. But I give you two points for explaining the relativity of it all. Einstein could do no better.

As far as expansion goes, what the heck would space expand into??? More space??? hahahahaha I laugh at the concept.


Mark Knowles profile image

Mark Knowles 6 years ago

Excellent hub. I certainly do not subscribe to the god nonsense and have never really got to grips with the big bang either. So I had come to the same conclusion - the universe has always been here.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Very good! Yes, it has always been here and we are all a part of it and no we will never die, just change. Religion is so against change and fearful and they feel they must spread that fear. For What? Self gratification. Thaks to another hubber that can actuall think for herself as Mark and I do.

Rated up and kudos too.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Thank you both, Lady and Mark, you are excellent members of the universe and it is wonderful that we will always be here!


Winston 6 years ago

Religions have always encouraged non-conforming data to be explained in a way that is consistent with dogma. When the geocentric Earth universe model that was held by the powerful Catholic Church was found to have difficulties due to observations of distant planets movements, the Church rewarded men of thought who could explain the retrograde motion around a motionless Earth by suggesting that the planets moved in large orbits called deferents, upon which were superimposed smaller orbits called epicycles which produced a "wobble" as seen from Earth.

Are we so very different today? Lives and careers and reputations are made by explaining the Big Bang, while alternative explanations are marginalized and disregarded.

There are only two major sources of data that are construed to support the Big Bang, those being Redshift and Cosmic Microwave Background. Both are generally accepted as supporting BB, but both have alternative theories to explain their presence, and even with these two data paoint, there are other huge holes in the Big Bang Belief that have to be explained.

Yet instead of looking for an explanation that fits the observed data, we continue to plug the holes in the Big Bang, just like we did in planet wobble with deferents, only now, in order to make the equations work, we have to have an inflation right after the Big Bang, dark matter to fill the holes in the universe, and dark energy that pushes everything apart.

Wouldn't it be easier to reconfigure the basic model, rethink Redshift and CMB?

It is one thing to infer a source due to observed interaction with objects, as we do with gravity. It is quite another to invent invisible matter because the computer model of equations demands it be there.

Equations are based on a system of logic, and logic cannot prove existence. The best we can say about the BB is that there are two data points that seem to support it, but those data points have been challenged by alternate explanations, while the details of the BB - much like deferents were - are simply a logical necessity based on mathematical computations of a PRECONCEIVED MODEL.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Yes, Winston, why can't we all just get along and accept things as they are?

Thank you for this explanation of the Big Bang Theory! It is so true!


nightwork4 profile image

nightwork4 6 years ago from ontario. canada

the big bang theory as well as god are just that. theories. Neither has been proven beyond doubt but the big bang is much more sensible and realistic.I honestly think that people believe in god because the thought of being nothing after death scares them.

Why people can't believe that we were created by nature is beyond me, look what scientists have done in the last hundred years , so just imagine what could have happened over billions or trillions of years.


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

to me this question is already answered. Out of all the planets and stuff in the cosmos, our planet is unique, its supports life. So you have to say our earth just happened, the amoeba just happened, our atmosphere just happened, our sun just happened to be exactly where it is; trees, flowers in all their vastness of arrays just happened, soil which naturally decays anything put into it just happens to allow a seed to sprout life. All this just 'happenstancing' is comparable to fence sitting to me. You just happen to be sitting on the fence unable to make a decision about which side to get off of it. Yes you do have a realists mind. The carnal (realists) mind is enmity against god and always will be, you need a little bit of faith in god and then go search him out and your hub will soon be along the lines of god created the earth and boo hiss to the big bang Theory. :) But you doubt me, of course you do.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

No brother, I don't doubt you feel the way you do. Apparently, you are the one with doubts.

So tell me, you have examined all of the other planets in the universe and found our planet to be unique have you? Amazing! You must be a god yourself.


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

I don't understand why you said any of what you said.

I have no doubts. Why did you say that? There is information about the solar system on the internet and planets, and although my information may seem impressive to you, I am not god. Maybe one day i will like jesus.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Unfortunately, those that accept what they are raised on as gospel have trouble understanding new concepts.

Your information is not impressive as it is regurgitated from what you have read, not what you can conceive of.

Why would you dislike Jesus? Or were you saying that someday you will "be like" Jesus?


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

hehe typo of course... be like.

Your views are not new either, you conceived them from a book(s) that you have read that is/are definitely written by humans. I wasn't raised on gospel, i just got off the fence. This 'regurgitation' you mistake for repeating the truth. If i say the earth is the third planet from the sun and i get asked 12 times that day what's the 3rd planet from the sun? am i not going to say, the earth.

Therefore, i wonder, and put this question to you. If a "belief police" walked up to you on the street and said, "Do you believe in creationism?" and creationism (not creatORism) was illegal and punishable by jail. Would you then stand up for your belief? I think anybody would not as your belief offers you nothing, it is empty and void.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

My belief in reality offers me everything. Yep, the whole enchilada. I get it all. And so do you.

BTW, I don't believe in creationism. Did you read the hub?


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

i did read the hub and creationism is the closest to what you believe of course you don't really believe anything. A belief in something would mean getting off the fence and you still happen to just be sitting there amongst all this stuff. I didn't say creatORism because that would mean god created all this stuff.

What does your belief offer you and what do you consider to make up your whole enchilada?

Try to answer just one of my questions will ya lol. You've had like 4 shots at it now.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

{What does your belief offer you and what do you consider to make up your whole enchilada?}

Is this your question? If so, the hub answers it, but I will try to explain further.

The universe and ALL that it is has always been here, will always be here, and is here now. This is something I can see, touch, hear, feel, and smell. When I die, I may become earth, then later on a rock, then later on something else. But I will always exist in one form or another. Life goes on and nothing is ever really dead.

There was NO beginning (creationism) - There is NO end.

This is what I believe.

If I don't have to think in finite terms, then the entire universe is part of me and I am part of it. This is the whole enchilada! EVERYTHING in the universe is mine and yours. Absolutely EVERYTHING! Nothing can be created or destroyed. The universe is us and we are it and it is infinite. Hard for our puny minds to understand, but when you do get it, it will open your mind to EVERYTHING!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

brotheryochanan,

This hub makes a rational argument for eternal matter & space (i.e. the universe).

It's worth reading it again. Here are some more points that synthesize the ideas of this hub.

1) Matter (atoms) and space (nothing) cannot be created or destroyed.

2) Space cannot acquire Length, Width, and Height and convert into matter.

3) Matter cannot lose Length, Width, and Height and convert into space.

4) Space is unbounded, unlimited, and borderless. Space cannot vanish/disappear – it is already nothing!

5) Matter cannot escape space. We are all trapped in “here” (space) for eternity.

If there is a God, “He” is serving an eternal prison sentence here too, as not even “He” can escape this unbounded prison which has NO walls to break out of. So he'd better work hard and earn his keep, just like all the other inmates.

This renders creation completely impossible!

If you disagree with any these points, please rationally explain your grievances.

Thanks


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Hiya FF! You are so sweet to come to my rescue! I love your part about God being just as much a prisoner as the rest of us! So true.

I don't think brotheryochanan gets it yet, but I think he might if he keeps thinking about it and listening to you and I.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

No problem Austinstar.

These 5 points just synthesize in a more direct way what you are trying to say in your hub. Feel free to add them to hub if you like, as it will help drive home your points.

What brotheryochanan likes to believe, is his personal business. We have a rational explanation for an eternal universe. Any God/creator theory that anybody proposes, has to refute these 5 points. Good luck!!

And guess what.....I have atheists coming daily to my hubs trying to refute them with much frustration.

In fact, Aristotle proposed the eternal universe argument over 2300 years ago, and it STILL cannot be refuted.

Do you know why? Because it is a rational argument which doesn't violate any logic/reason, and it doesn't propose any surrealistic or supernatural processes.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Yes, I will never understand why so many believe there is "something beyond our universe". Huh?

There are no walls in the universe, there is no "other side". Of course, they just don't understand the concept of infinity. That is the problem. Yet they have no problems saying that "heaven" or "hell" is eternal. What is eternity without infinity?


AKA Winston 6 years ago

(to me this question is already answered. Out of all the planets and stuff in the cosmos, our planet is unique, its supports life)

brotheryochanan,

Your statement is expressing the logical fallacy of begging the question. Your conclusion is inherent in your premise. (i.e., our planet is unique, therefore it was created). Your un-asked question is: How do you explain the existence of this unique planet without a supernatural causing agent?

This is a bogus question which cannot be answered without agreeing with your asserted claim of a "unique planet".

Reality is we do not know if this planet is one-of-a-kind or not. Asserting that it is unique is simply an assertion of faith, an assertion that justifies the religion of creationism.

Thus your reasoning goes around and around in circles.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Thank you AKA Winston, I couldn't have said it better!

My mom used to repeat over and over that "no two snowflakes are alike". She thought that made each snowflake unique in the universe. (Like our planet).

But I knew for a fact that neither she nor anybody else had ever taken every single snowflake ever and physically compared it to every other single snowflake in the universe, so how could this statement be true?

Same thing for our planet. No one can say with certainty that they have compared our planet to every other planet in the universe and found our planet to be "unique". It's just crazy to think that the task could even be done!

This is why religion fails to explain things. Religions take a premise and assume it to be true when there is no way to prove it is true.


AKA Winston 6 years ago

(Religions take a premise and assume it to be true when there is no way to prove it is true.)

Austinstar,

And to be clear, I know that you know that when the word religion is used it does not necessarily infer a theistic religion - proponents of the Big Bang exhibit the same type of religious assumptions and are thus religious in nature, even those who claim atheism.

These "religions" can only rely on systems of logic to prove their case, and "proof" is a synonym for logical necessity. In other words, the conclusions stem from the very premises that are "believed". In that sense, all logics are tautologies, and thus circular in nature. That doesn't mean logic cannot be useful; it only means that the proof (the conclusion) is only applicable within that system, it does not follow that because a maximally great being is thought logically to be possible in some world that a maximaly great being exists (has shape+location) in the actual world.

This is the argument of Plantinga, which Fatfist exposed as nothing but circularity. But it is what religionists (theistic or otherwise)have to do (play fast and loose with definitions) to make it appear their reasoning is valid.

As soon as they are pinned down to realitic difinitive values like exist=shape+location, their arguments whither. They are then left with the only viable argument, which is that they believe because they believe, as they have been convinced (like a jury in a jury trial) by the pleadings of the orator that his case is true.

I only ask one thing - acknowledgement that truth is subjective; many innocent men have been sent to the gallows; truth has a way of changing its face over time.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Truth is subjective. You're right about that! One person's truth is another person's lie. I just know what I know and I wish that people would quit trying to believe in myths and legends and "religions".

No one learned a damm thing from the Inquisition, did they? All the wars are still being fought in the name of "religion". I don't think I've ever seen one good thing come from "religion". They pretend to do good things, but they just spread the fantasy and make things worse. "My god is bigger, better, badder than YOUR god" What a load of crap. The god myth is dangerous and unforgiving.

Why can't we all just get along?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Don't be shy, Dave, tell us the story! What did you see?


Kosmo profile image

Kosmo 6 years ago from California

I like the idea that nothing really dies. At any rate, our quarks and leptons will comprise the stuff of the universe in some fashion, here, there or everywhere. Anyway, yes indeed the Big Bang is a theory, though it explains a lot. Perhaps God started the Big Bang, or perhaps the Big Bang started God. What came first - God or the cosmic egg? Ha! Whatever. Later!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

don't forget neutrinos and gluons!


Kosmo profile image

Kosmo 6 years ago from California

According to one theory in physics, there are only two types of particles - quarks and leptons. The former have mass while the latter have virtually none, such as the neutrinos, those little neutral ones. It's so simple I love it! Later!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I stand corrected! Thanks. neutral is good.


Johno 6 years ago

The Universe has no beginning. It has no ending. It always has been so. It always will be so. The Gods of history came from the Universe. The Universe self perpetuates with Little Bangs.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Oh no!

You changed your avatar.

We want the avatar with your cool shades!

We want the avatar with your cool shades!

We want the avatar with your cool shades!

;-)


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Ok! Just trying something new. But you are correct, as usual. The messed up kitty face doesn't work.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Excellent!

Nothing beats the cool shades. Now all you need is a leather jacket :-)


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I'll put my shades on and take a new photo this afternoon. With my leather jacket! It's time.


Baileybear 6 years ago

Like the plain english approach - I don't understand all the cosmos physics and maths. I read in another hub that creationists actually came up with the big bang theory in the first place.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

"BTW, your icon photo is as out of focus as you are. Perfect!"

Austinstar......that is the BEST comment in Polly's hub.

A standing ovation to you!!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Hahaha I can't even post a comment in Polly's hub.

I watch a program on the history channel -or science channel about the birth of stars and the hubble spacecraft did shoot many fine pictures on the things in space. There are things that look like life beings that are in the constellations. It was amazing that they could see stars actually being born--like coming from a fallopian tube and being born much like a human fetus or any fetus. Now imho I thing that the tiniest, which now are a whole lot smaller than the electrons and such floated around and then hit another one. Some things just have a stickiness to them and these may have stuck together and eventually formed something living but it is not like we are. The whole of the universe is a living thing. There is no end because the more we explore the more there is to explore. It just is and will always be. No big bang and no God. It's like the oceans teeming with life just on this planet. If there are stars being birthed it would surprise me that none of them had any life, like we know it, on them.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Lady G,

Yeah, Polly is quite the act.

(The whole of the universe is a living thing. )

Indeed, we scientifically define LIFE as follows:

life: the ability an object has naturally developed to move of its own volition against gravity

The key words here are MOVE & VOLITION – to change location at will.

Every single atom in the universe is in motion and interconnected to all other atoms in the universe. That’s how we rationally explain gravity. This means that atoms have the perpetual ability to come close together. Once they are close, then atomic bonding, magnetism, electricity, and e-shell expansion impart other motion to atoms which makes them assemble and cluster into larger objects.....and eventually to us. We are just a conglomerate of atoms. And that is something special and worthy of celebration on a daily basis. Only Nature takes this credit.....not some imaginary God concept.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Why fatfist if I weren't married already, AND I was 10 years younger, I'd be rewarding you in some very nice ways right now. You are so sweet to say that!


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

(I'd be rewarding you in some very nice ways right now. )

Ahhh..You're making me blush Austinstar.

That I can converse with a rational person such as yourself is rewarding enough for me. You tell your husband that I said "He's a lucky guy" :-))


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Now Bob thanks you too.

Yes, you do brighten my day for conversation as well. There really are so few of us rational people. I'm writing a new hub about Satan and atheists. It's going to be good.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

It also is interesting to me that each part of the body's cells (and this is in every single thing at least on this earth) are designed to be that thing they create or are.

The cells in like ears, know and will produce an ear and not any other part. We are all like you said, a bunch of atoms stuck together to make something bigger.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Lady, some day we'll actually figure that out, and I'll be willing to bet there won't be some invisible being making it happen.

People used to believe that gods exhaled and that's why the wind blew. Amazing.


fatfist profile image

fatfist 6 years ago

Lady G,

(The cells in like ears, know and will produce an ear and not any other part.)

Yeah, but let’s be more specific.

It’s not that cells are “conscious” and they KNOW how to reproduce the exact same cells. Say I have a cut on my ear or on my elbow, where each cell is different.

The atoms in my ear have a certain orientation in a “chain” or “grid” or whatever you want to call it. When a portion gets severed or removed, the atoms at that location will attract atoms that will accept that specific atomic/molecular boding at that location. It’s like fitting pieces of a puzzle. Only a certain size and shape and specific atom will fit and be able to bond to the molecular attraction mediated at that location. And this happens at the atomic level. Of course, it's more complex in that DNA and hormones play a big role as well.....

Another example which doesn’t involve living tissue is the dissolution of salt in salt water pools. The electrolysis system of the pool breaks down normal salt into Na and Cl, where the chlorine disinfects the pool. Then the chlorine recombines with the Sodium in the water to form salt again. And the process repeats itself. No intelligence required, just nature’s atomic bonding. This allows your salt to be recycled over and over in your pool.

But if you’re a Christian, you have to THANK GOD for helping you recycle the salt by recombining the Na and Cl atoms together so that you don’t have to purchase salt all the time. Now you will have enough money left over to deposit in the church till so your beloved atheist Pastor can go out and get laid with hookers.

Btw.....almost ALL Pastors and Priests are atheists! They're just exercising their right to capitalism.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Yes, you said it much better than I!!

Aha! They go to school to learn how to get money in the church--that I know!!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Thinks work the way they work with or without our help or "divine" intervention.

I'm not sure that almost all pastors and priests are atheists, but I am sure that they perpetuate the myth of religion in order to line their pockets. It's a business to them without a doubt.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 6 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi Austinstar,

Peace Girl...By the way, and off the subject of this hub article which I'll get to in a moment. I lived in Texas for quite ahwile,and as far as I am concerned the best folks in the world come from there. I love the hill country and the music scene in Austin.

Okay about the hub, first of all I really did laugh my ass off at this: "I swear every time I look, all I ever see is a glass with water in it. Whether it is half full or half empty is a matter of opinion."

I don't know of anyone that could have said it any better! That's exactly what I see too, and short of a calculation of the volume of the glass, I can't tell you which side of the half/half line it is filled to.

Okay the universe has always been here...Agreed, we're on the same track, and I'll go you one more too, and say that even our forefathers of this country knew better of claiming the Judeo/Christian concept of God when they wrote our founding documents. They used the term "Natures" God. So, I loved your hub, and I'm voting it up as useful because it made me think, funny because it definitely made me laugh, and awesome because it is eloquent.

Now for my questions for you, and please give it a little thought before banging out just any answer...What is the spark that gives you life? What seperates you personally from another intelligent form of organism, like a porpoise for example, besides the obvous physical differences? Is it simply mankinds arrogance that leads so many of us to think that we may have been destined for a greater purpose? If it's just arrogance, then why are we the only species to have evolved to this level of consciousness on a planet as diversified with oraganisms as earth is? Isn't our understanding of the universe and our ability to cure illnesses, build cities, and now travel into space, and even probe the far reaches of our galaxy really proof that manikind is something more?

If by the account of science energy can neither be created or destroyed, what happens to the energy inside of you when you die?...Yeah, our flesh is gonna putrify, turn to dust, then petrify into rock. I agree wholeheartedly on that fact too. If you really think you are no more than another random mammal in the myriad of life then I respect that, but I think that you are much more than that!

Wow, I may have given you fodder for another hub...Sorry

By the way, I like the thinking side of Austinsar much better than the sarcastic side.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 6 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Oh darn it, my sarcastic side takes up most of my brain! But I will put some thought into this question of yours and will write a "thinking" answer if I can. I'm off to work now.


Joyus Crynoid profile image

Joyus Crynoid 5 years ago from Eden

I disagree with you about the Big Bang Theory. There is nothing supernatural about it, and it is silly to lump it in with religion (as some of your esteemed commenters have also done, here and in their hubs). Unlike creationism, the Big Bang Theory is a real scientific theory. Just like any scientific theory, it has its weaknesses, but so far it has stood the test of time.

I agree that the universe has always been here. But, like you and me, it has not always been here in its present form. The universe developed into existence, just like everything else. See my hub "The Creation of Humanity, part 1".

Of course, that is "just my opinion". But if you want to go that route, then beware the slippery slope, down which EVERYTHING not direclty connected to survival and death is just a matter of opinion (see the discussion of knowledge in my hub "The Creation of Humanity, part 2)"


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Hi Joyus, unless you can tell me what the universe developed FROM, I will have to continue to believe that there was no beginning, there is no end. True, it is my opinion, but something I strongly believe because no one has been able to answer that question.

I do agree that the Big Bang could have happened. Perhaps over untold eons after a big bang all matter gets sucked into a single black hole eventually and compresses to the point of another big bang and this continues over and over.


Joyus Crynoid profile image

Joyus Crynoid 5 years ago from Eden

Well, I am happy to admit that I don't know. But the most compelling idea I've heard is that the universe developed from the spawn of another aged universe. I recently read a review of a book on this subject by a renowned cosmologist. I'll have to see if I can find it so I can be more informed on this subject.

I'm basing my position on my observation that everything in the universe (that I know of) came into existence through a process of development, beginning in a relatively unspecified (vague or undefined) state. Not just organisms--look at weather systems, geological systems, the solar system, galaxies, etc. So why would the universe as a whole be an exception? It's hard for me to imagine that the universe didn't develop, and The Big Bang Theory seems to be a reasonable account of how that occurred.


fi fi profile image

fi fi 5 years ago from Niagara, Canada

Wow, Austinstar...I've seen your face on several pieces of writings of hubbers I follow and decided to take a peek at what you write on here. I must say, I'm glad I did! No offense to your thought provoking and brilliantly neutral hub, but the ensuing discussions held me transfixed. Your writing quite obviously brings out the best and worst opinions of those who have replied. I'm not even going to go into what I believe to be the reason we are here or how we were put here at all, if indeed we were 'put' here. I'm only sorry I didn't check you out before! I realize this is an older hub but I'll definitely be checking in to see what you've started, and finished in the future ;)


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

It's OK to visit older hubs! I just left some comments on one that was two years old. The best hubs have staying power :-)

Thank you for commenting and I will return the favor and look for your hubs too.


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 5 years ago from St. Louis, MO

Yes, I could have sworn I saw your Big Bang hub:)


Christfollower123 5 years ago

I am a christian, and therefore believe in God.

First of all, u dont explain why the "God theory" isn't true. (And it isn't a theory for me, it is truth).

second of all, why wouldn't you want to believe in God?Doesn't it depress u to think that, according to u, are just going to die one day, and turn to dirt?

I believe that once I die i am going to heaven to live with god eternally, and I want everyone to have that same happiness, and fullfillment as me.

Third of all, the bible is very solid, in facts, and is backed up with info all over the world. JUST LOOK IT UP!

The bible is the most accurate record of ancient times.

It has so many prophecies that have been answered, and all of them where right.

There is nothing mythical about the bible,It is about an infinate God (you said yourself that you believe that things can be infinate)that made the world, and like I said before, to me it is truth.

Fourth, how can so many people be wrong about the bible? Tons of millions of people have died for their faith. If it was all a lie, then how come it has lasted about 6,000 years? If it was a lie, then how did Jesus of Nazareth get raised from the dead? He was accually dead, the Romans where very efficient in their crucifictions. And he accually did rise from the dead; He appeared to many people after he died. How could that not have happened if he was not the son of God?

I stumbled on this post by accident, and I am sorry if I sounded a bit know it all, but that is it! I DONT know it all, and no one does but God. I fell sorry for those of u that dont accept Jesus and God. I want to see u up in heaven one day, and know that i'll be praying for everyone of u. Some of u just reject Jesus, without even looking up the facts! If you haven't read the bible, then that is the problem. You should give it a try, even though it is a pretty big book.

I'm not gifted with words, so if you didn't understand me completely, then PLEASE look it up! I wish for all of u to find God.

Remember! I'll be Praying for all of u!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Christfollower - If I brought you a 2,000 year old book that said that Jesus was still alive and living in San Diego, would you believe it?

If I told you all your life that God lived in a special room that only "true believers" could enter, and then you walked into that room and nothing was there, what would you believe then?

Your belief is just an opinion based on 6,000 year old "facts". There is no proof that God exists or doesn't exist. It's up to you to have faith in whatever you want to have faith in. But don't expect me to agree.


Christfollower123 5 years ago

Austinstar- You r right that it is up to you to have faith in whatever you want to, but I believe that it is my duty, to teach the word of God where ever I can. I once heard an Atheist say,"How much do you have to hate a person, not to tell them how you think you can be saved." I did not personally know this Atheist, but he was right about this. If I believe that the only way to heaven, and everlasting life, was beliving, and loving Jesus Christ, and God, then why would I keep that to myself!

Also, Facts are facts, even if they are 6,000 years old. And there is TONS of proof that God exists, you just have to be open to it all.

Here is some of that proof.

1) There is these little protens in our body,and every other living that litterally hold our cells together! They are called Laminin and are in the shape of a cross.

2) Some non-christians( I am not saying this is you) try so hard to put christianity down. Why would they do that if they where not scared that they where accually wrong, and when they died they would be sent to hell! (sorry, but it is what I believe, and is why I want every one to believe in Jesus and go to heaven) If they truly believed that we were wrong, then why couldn't they just let us be happy in our belief that we would go to heaven after we die?

3) If you believe that the Earth has been here forever, then why isn't it perfect? Then it would have had an unlimited time to correct sickness, and poverty, sin, ect. I believe it had a begining, and will have an end.

I believe that the reason that there are atheists, is that people are to proud to admit that there is someone greater than them that they are accountable to. (No offense to some of you Atheists out there). If people were less pround, and more open to the possibilites, then more people might go to heaven.

There are many more proofs that God exists. You just have to be open.

Remember that I am praying for every one!

P.s. Austinstar, sorry, but San Diego didn't exist 2,000 years ago. I get what you where trying to say, even If I will never agree with it.


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 5 years ago from St. Louis, MO

See - Christians always think they need to change our minds too - why can't they just let us be happy and believe that we should make the most of the life we have. I don't believe in heaven, he'll or God. Not the way others do. I don't think it is because I am afraid to believe there is someone greater than me that will hold me accountable. Accountable for what? Breathing?

Sorry I do disagree with you but I don't mind if you don't believe the same thing that I do. It's your reality:) I'm very happy with my life and have had much success so I think I'll be ok:)


Christian123 5 years ago

I don't need to change your mind, I just don't want you to go to hell. I could go on living my life without telling the word of God, and still go to heaven if I am a christian. But when I get to heaven, I don't want God to ask me if I had told anyone about his word, and I have to say no. I also would love it if in heaven, some one came up to me, and told me that I had helped them get into heaven.


Christfollower123 5 years ago

Also, it's not breathing he will hold everyone accountable for. It's Sin. Everyone sins every day, and sin can't be with God. WHich is why Jesus died a HORRIBLE death on the cross for us, and why to go to heaven we must believe in him.


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 5 years ago from St. Louis, MO

I do not believe I sin at all! I am a heck of a lot better person than I often see walking into church;). If you feel you are doing things that you need to ask someone to forgive you for that's your problem.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Christf - Don't worry about us, we are not going to hell. It doesn't exist either.

You said:

"but I believe that it is my duty, to teach the word of God where ever I can"

Well, go be a preacher and do just that, who's stopping you?

"There is these little protens in our body,and every other living that litterally hold our cells together! They are called Laminin and are in the shape of a cross."

You christians see crosses everywhere. I even know how to draw one. That is not proof of god. Why would you think it is?

"Some non-christians( I am not saying this is you) try so hard to put christianity down. Why would they do that if they where not scared that they where accually wrong, and when they died they would be sent to hell!"

I don't know about those non-christians, but I put Christianity down because it is a lie. It gives false hope to people and too many excuses to crazy people who beat their children and wives, gives them a reason for stupid wars and throws rational thought right out the window.

"If you believe that the Earth has been here forever, then why isn't it perfect?"

I believe that it is perfect! Why don't you?

"I believe that the reason that there are atheists, is that people are to proud to admit that there is someone greater than them that they are accountable to."

I thought that was the reason that Christians were so religious. Because they have to be good for God and Santa Claus.

Trust me, as an atheist, I do not have to be accountable to anyone or anything other than myself. I take full responsibility for my actions.


Christfollower123 5 years ago

I will follow wherever the lord wants me to go, if that is as a pastor, i will, but i dont think it is.

We do see crosses every where, and that is just more proof that God created the world. But Laminin is truly incredible, you should look it up.

Some people call themselves christians, and do do things that displease God. That doesn't meen that all Christians are like that, and the Bible doesn't give ANYONE an excuse to be like that. If it is a lie, then what is the harm in it? If you belive that nothing happens after your body deteriorates, then why would u care what we believe?

No earth is not perfact, have u looked out side America lately? people are starving, and dieing, ans sinning. That is because of the devil. God brings the good things into the world, like babies, and sunrises, and Christ like people.

As a christian, I don't believe i HAVE to be good. I just have to love and believe in Jesus and God. Which I do. I TRY to be good because I love God so much. Jesus was TORTURED for us, and then was mocked and CRUCIFIED. why wouldn't I want to be the best I can for him.

Mabye u do take responsibility for you actions, but you don't have any one to forgive them. I feel sorry for u and all other Atheists.

I am praying for u all.


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 5 years ago from St. Louis, MO

Don't waste your CO2 on me and do not feel sorry for me, there is no need. I have a fantastic life! I feel sorry that you go around every day thinking you are a sinner! That's SAD!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I'm sorry CF that you are so deluded and brain washed. I cannot help you and you do not need to feel sorry for me. That is such B.S.

I will no longer approve your comments on this hub.


tugbo200-5 5 years ago

Kinda hard for me to believe,that not believing

or being a sinner and only living about 70 years

condemns a person to Hell for eternity


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

You got that right tug!


jaugustine 5 years ago

Austinstar: Great Hub.

I think and wrote my cosmology based upon Infinity. Because our Universe had a beginning, I see Infinity as having existed prior to our Universe.

In the Beginning something happened.

Science can measure the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) energy remnant from what it calls the Big Bang.

The five billion religious people on Earth definitely experience the powerful spiritual energies of their various Divinities as well as angels and demons.

I trace the origins of everything in our Universe back to an event that happened in Infinity.

I call the event that caused the Big Bang the "Disunification of Energy and Awareness."

When they were disunified from Infinity, the two great streams of Energy and Awareness evolved into all of the different forms, processes, and beings in our Universe.

Many ancient religious thinkers called these two great streams Spirit and Matter. This “Spirit and Matter” cosmology stills holds tremendous power in the world today.

Other ancient thinkers argued that no Duality such as Spirit and Matter existed and that everything is One.

In my work both Duality and Non-Duality are true; it just depends how you look at the Universe. The Tao Te Ching says this about non-duality and duality in Section 42:

"The Tao gave birth to One.

"The One gave birth to Two.

"The Two gave birth to Three.

"The Three gave birth to all of creation."

The Disunification was an event in which Infinity “disunified” some minute part of itself into endless sub-Infinite bubble universes. These bubble universes populate the Multiverse.

Sub-Infinite universes can have different shapes, physical laws, and different operating conditions from our Universe. Therefore, when I speak of universes as being bubble-shaped, it is in a literary sense and is not a scientific statement of any kind.

I distinguish our Universe from Infinity. This distinction has three crucial implications:

* Our Universe is sub-Infinite and emerged from Infinity

* All universes in the Multiverse are sub-Infinite and emerged from Infinity

* All Divinities, Gods, and Goddesses, angels, demons, humans, religions, and everything else in our Universe is sub-Infinite and emerged from Infinity

Some people say that our Universe goes on forever and never ends. This belief holds that our Universe is essentially infinite. In his book, The Physics of Immortality, Dr. Frank Tipler asserted that:

"The universe is defined to be the totality of all that exists, the totality of reality. Thus, by definition, if God exists, He/She is either the universe or part of it. "

Day Teaching takes exception with the definition that the "universe is defined to be the totality of all that exists" and will instead argue that Infinity and our Universe are two separate and different domains. A key notion of Day Teaching is that our Universe is sub-Infinite and is surrounded by Infinity. Day Teaching maintains that our Universe is spatially bounded by Infinity, and yet obeys the Hartle-Hawking wave function. Stephen Hawking said that the Hartle-Hawking wave function, "states that the universe has no boundary."

I conceptualize our Universe as having a boundary layer that blends into Infinity just as Earth’s atmosphere blends into space. I call this boundary layer the “Infinity Surround” and will describe it later.

Day Teaching understands Infinity as being shot through with universes like a sponge with bubbles.

Thus, Infinity is viewed as the Ultimate Medium from which all universes arise and inhere.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

jaugustine, you should put all this into a hub. I think you are still struggling to understand infinity though as infinity does not and never will have a beginning or an end. All time is a reference point only. There was always something before that reference point and there will always be something after it.


jaugustine 5 years ago

Austinstar, I am working on a hub. I also put it all into a book.

Some people say that our Universe goes on forever and never ends. This belief holds that our Universe is essentially infinite. In his book, The Physics of Immortality, Dr. Frank Tipler asserted that:

"The universe is defined to be the totality of all that exists, the totality of reality. Thus, by definition, if God exists, He/She is either the universe or part of it."

In my work, I take exception with the definition that the "universe is defined to be the totality of all that exists" and will instead argue that Infinity and our Universe are two separate and different domains.

I maintain that our Universe is spatially bounded by Infinity, and yet obeys the Hartle-Hawking wave function. Stephen Hawking said that the Hartle-Hawking wave function, "states that the universe has no boundary."

I conceptualize our Universe as having a boundary layer that blends into Infinity just as Earth’s atmosphere blends into space. I call this boundary layer the “Infinity Surround."

Day Teaching understands Infinity as being shot through with universes like a sponge with bubbles. Thus, I see Infinity as the Ultimate Medium from which all universes arise and inhere.


Walid 4 years ago

To everyone trying to "understand" - i mean this by rationally - logically trying to come to the realization that "god" is a physical being - this is where you live in a matrix - misconception - an ILLUSION.

God is love - fear is the devil - the world around (reality) you is projected in your mind, derived from these exact two EMOTIONS, not thoughts.

Fear of money - materials, waking up to.... - every decision in every second of any context is made almost entirely out of fear - so what is it that negates fear - controls it? It is not just YOUR conscience - but THE conscience (superconscience - a unified conscience - all beings in one harmony and feeling - subjecgating itself individually - just as a hologram or a reflection.)

Now when you look through quotes/ancient myths - symbols and "predictions" by so many that came true - they knew we were headed into a path of destruction.

We, 99%, who chose NOT to believe but to rationalize this idea - are subconciously afraid to believe, derived from FEAR. So, is the world under a hypnotic "spell" - a satanic spell? Fear is the devill... that feeling you get when you are alone, in an empty dark room - though not afraid that a monster is going to come out and kill you?

It is only a pure simple feeling that manifests itself in the MIND - this is why the human mind is the most destructuable and only believeing will you open your third eye and feel "illumination" - now you know why "they" belive they are illuminated or the illuminati. Strength - courage and awareness. Type illuminati backwards (.com) and see where it takes you. Yet they created this world derived entirely from FEAR, not love, wake up or we will all (our sons and grandchildren) perish.

I'm thinking of writing a book that connects not only religion but ethics, morals, science, mathematics, astrology, life itself, the universe to the one true nature of all - the conscience. If anyone is interested in helping me - please email me entity013@hotmail.com


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Do you guys feel like reading the hub before leaving comments? I would appreciate that. Thank you for your opinions.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

The premise that the all matter and energy began to exist 13.70 billion years ago is not a religious declaration nor a theological one. You can find this statement in any contemporary textbook on astrophysics or cosmology. And it is supported by the vast majority of cosmologists today.

The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth Theorem, for instance, proves that any universe, that has, on average, a rate of expansion greater than one ** must ** have a ** finite beginning **. I'm not making this up. Read the paper in full or watch Vilenkin himself invalidate and impugn beginningless universe models like Eternal Inflation, Cyclic Evolution and Static Seed/Emergent Universe on youtube.

As such, Vilenkin had this to say regarding the beginning of the universe, "It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. *** There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning ***. (Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176) (Emphasis mine.)

As Theoretical Physicist and Cosmologist Stephen Hawking put it, “the final nail in the coffin of the Steady State theory came with the discovery of the microwave background radiation, in 1965.”

Emphatically, then, your fervent belief that the universe is infinitely old, beginningless, or eternal has no basis in any respected mainstream scientific theories of the universe. It's just more atheistic amphigory and wishful thinking.

This creates the necessity for a first uncaused-cause. After all, something cannot come from nothing.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

It is my opinion that the universe has always existed and always will. That is why I agree with the statement that something cannot come from nothing. There was obviously something always here.

Simply being here now creates the probability that the matter was always here since matter cannot come from nothing. The universe is here, ergo, it has always been here.

Even if there were a measurable beginning, what came before that point?

Another beginning? No.

If you cannot conceive of eternity (no beginning, no end), then that is your response. So what? What possible difference does it make to the here and now?

Even if there were a measurable 'beginning', what came before that?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

JOP - If you wish to leave original comments, please feel free to do so. I delete all copied and pasted comments.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

God was before the universe: http://bit.ly/10j5YgK


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

It is my opinion that he was not.

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