Christian Love

"Why is it that all Christians seem to think if you're not Christian, you're Satan's spawn?" EinderDarkwolf

I have to confess when I saw this question, my heart went out to EinderDarkwolf . I also thought I don’t want to touch it because of the controversy that it will cause. I am a Christian, and I am human. But since the day that EinderDarkwolf posted it, the question has popped into my head and heart several times.

First, to EinderDarkwolf, I apologize to you for being a coward about answering your question, and I also feel terrible that you have been made to feel this way or have witnessed others feeling like Christians have peg-holed them. My answer to your question is more of a message to Christians who make you feel this way, so I hope you see the logic in the words I write.

Help Me, Jesus Christ

Christians, I am not going to claim to be a Bible scholar. Just because I do not have book, chapter, and verse number memorized does not mean I do not have the Word in my heart. Here is what I know: Christ commanded us to “Go ye unto the world and preach the Gospel.” He said to follow the 10 Commandments, but He added, “Love one another as you would love yourself,” and “Judge not lest ye be judged.” He did not go around pointing His finger in judgment or dwelling on the sins of those around Him. It was not the time to judge. He told us that when He returns, He will come as the Judge, so step back and take yourself out of that place of judge and jury and do as He commanded. He forgave and He forgot and He loved no matter what the person had done. He loves those who believe, and He loves those who do not believe. Who are we to cut down a person who our Lord loves? He has plans for each of us, and who are we to stand in His way?

Christians, remember when the soldiers came to arrest Christ in the garden and Peter used his sword to cut off the soldier’s ear? Christ cried out to Peter, the rock of the church, “Get behind me, Satan!” Then Christ miraculously reattached the soldier’s ear. Peter had interfered with the plan of God. Christ had to go through the torture of the Cross in order to show an unbelieving people that He defeated sin and death. Do not be a Peter in the garden. Allowing your judgment to bypass God’s plan is wrong.

Christians Should Remember We Are Special Witnesses for Christ

I heard a preacher say, “I have to come to Christ first to assure my place in Heaven then I need to take as many with me as I possibly can.” Who wants to follow a faith with followers placing themselves as the Finger of God pointing out others’ sins rather than embracing them and saying, “Welcome. You are a child of God, and I am glad to see you.”

I cannot express the joy and blessings I have in my life because I have chosen Jesus Christ as my Savior. My wish is that everyone has the same joy and blessings through knowing Him. My message to non-believers who are approached by Christians is to look for these things: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control,” Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version). Also, understand that you will not see all these traits in each Christian, and you will not see a perfect person when you see a Christian. You are simply seeing a person who believes in Christ and tries to follow Him by showing love and compassion to others. Christians slip up. I know I do. I have bad thoughts and habits, and I have done things in my past I am not proud of, but I have hope in Christ. If I point one finger at another, I have four others pointing back at me. I have a personal relationship with Christ, and I talk to Him and feel His presence – what a comfort it is knowing He is always there helping me. I have the knowledge of His unconditional love and acceptance of me. I have His forgiveness and know He forgets. I know He wants me to forgive and forget, too. Whew, that is a hard one, but I do try. He wants me to see the person and not the bad or the bitterness or the sin. Again, not easy for any of us to overlook the transgressions of others whether we are believers or not, but Christians should be the example.

To EinderDarkwolf

EinderDarkwolf, thank you for asking the question. My answer may or may not be satisfactory to you, but know that this Christian believes you are a child of God just as I am, and not “Satan’s spawn.” May peace and blessings be in your life.

To Christians

Christians, I am sure some of you disagree with me. That is fine. We each have a purpose. I am following what I believe the Spirit is leading me to do. There is so much depth to the Word of God that none of us will fully grasp it while we are on this earth. He will enlighten us to what He wants us to know and do. Pray for Him to work through you, and do not override His goals with yours. Go into the world and share the Good News of Christ.

"Go Light Your World" by Kathy Troccoli

© 2012 Susan Holland

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Comments 61 comments

kashmir56 profile image

kashmir56 4 years ago from Massachusetts

Hi sholland10, Very beautifully written and very beautifully said and i agree with 100%. Did not Jesus eat with the sinners,and did He not say how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see.

Vote up and more !!!


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Well I agree with you so that's all that counts, right? :) You are right on with this hub and you approached it beautifully and logically. I'm sorry in advance if some Christians have a problem with this hub because it is a fine piece of work and it took courage to write it.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Kashmir! Yes, Jesus came to save all of us. He did not say, "Everyone except..." I love the verse about taking the plank out of my eye before point out a speck to other. We should remember that always!

Thanks so much for dropping by, voting, and more!! :-)


Marcy Goodfleisch profile image

Marcy Goodfleisch 4 years ago from Planet Earth

Oh, this is such an important message! I'm so glad you wrote this. It's embarrassing (as one who believes in Christ) to see people deviate from His teachings and condemn those who don't believe the same things. It's so contrary to the values we were all taught, no matter what our religious background. Voted up, awesome and interesting.


vtwilli profile image

vtwilli 4 years ago from Baton Rouge, Louisiana

This article is dead on. As Christians the light of the Lord shoud draw people to us and distinguish us from the world. Yet instead of operating in faith and by love we allow our holiness to keep from witnessing


diogenes 4 years ago

sholland: You are a lovely lady, a very good writer and I risk offending you when I explain something. Non believers view believers rather like non-smokers view smokers. Actually, we feel sorry for them as they do us!

As regards messages, I personally won't listen to anything religious as I have outgrown the need to argue about the for's or against's of the existance - or not - of a god, or gods.

There just is no place for what I see is a lot of tripe in my mind or my life.

Perhaps one day I will be proven misguided but I doubt it.

Bob


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 4 years ago

Keeping an open mind on what others say and believe takes practice and a willingness to see beyond the surface. Our purpose is to reflect the light of Christ to others and He will draw them in to a deeper realm of understanding. Great hub topic that keeps us focused on what our role is as a Christian.


teacherjoe52 profile image

teacherjoe52 4 years ago

Bravo Bravo.

I have seen too many Holy Rollers roll non Christians away from Christ than to Him.

We need to live by Gods Law as much as possable.

Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

Do not do to others as you would not like them to do to you.

When we Christians behave in this manner our family will be overflowing with non Christians looking to join our family.

Bang on article.

Good girl.

I am proud of you.

God bless you


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Bill! Thank you for your kind words. All of us have a purpose. Once we are Christian, I believe God opens up what He wants of us according to the gifts He has given to us. I don't think it is right to exclude anyone as if Christianity is a club. If others have a problem with me writing this hub, all I can say is it has been in my heart for several days, and I felt I needed to write it or feel bad for not writing it out of fear.

I am so glad you dropped by dear "cousin." :-)


must65gt profile image

must65gt 4 years ago

An instructor once said something that has remained embedded in me. "I will live my life as a child of God and follow his word, if I pass and find there was nothing there, then I lived a better life because of the choice I made.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

@Marcy and Vtwilli, thanks girls! We must always keep Christ's mission first.

I appreciate your comments and votes. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Bob, I am not offended by what you have said. I don't want to argue, either. I am glad you took the time to read my writing and appreciate your honesty in your comments. I don't feel sorry for you, and I hope you don't feel sorry for me for being grounded in my beliefs that you and I can agree to disagree on. I am sure you have run into Christians who have tried to change your mind. While I think that would be wonderful, it is your decision. I am not going to try to change your mind. I still love seeing you around the hubs and do not think less of you. That would only make you dislike, feel indifferent, or feel sorry for Christians even more. My purpose is to say we Christians aren't all that bad. ;-)

Take care and thank you for dropping by. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

@Teacher and TeacherJoe, just as you, I think we should use compassion rather than finger-pointing and nagging to get non-believers to take a look at Christ - not the religion, but the Son of God.

Thank you both for your kind words and support. I appreciate you dropping by!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Must65! I love that quote! Your instructor was a wise person. Thank you for sharing that.

Thanks for dropping by! :-)


Cagsil profile image

Cagsil 4 years ago from USA or America

Hey Susan, I guess I shouldn't really be commenting on your hub and since your hub is directed more toward Christians than it is at others, I find it appropriate. HOWEVER, I also find it filled with that ambiguity that religion is completely filled with. I guess that wouldn't come to you as a shock and coming from me, I'm not sure whether or not you would be offended by it.

I am not sure of your background with regards to the knowledge of your belief and I'm not going to jump down your throat about what you've managed to experience in your life that has you attributing things to other things(entities), because I find it completely ignorant to attribute something to something else without first verifying it should be attributed to that.

I spent a good portion of my examining what I believe, as I was once a believer. I am pretty sure you have no answer for why I would no longer be a believer, considering you don't know my past or anything else about me other than what you've managed to read from my writing or hear in conversations we've had.

Your overall message with regards to Christians? Well, you're talking to an empty well. Most Christians I've managed to talk to over the course of my life, including Priests, barely understand the bible or it's contents. Most just choose what they want from it and discard the rest just as easily. Approximately 90% or more have no ability to see beyond themselves much less know anything about love or compassion. Good luck with your responses.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Ray! I appreciate your comments. I am sorry you had a bad experience when you were young. No, I will not attempt to tell you I have the answers for you - only you can find the answers. You know where I stand, and I know where you stand.

I don't think I am "talking to an empty well," though. We can just agree to disagree on that. I guess some do feel there is ambiguity in religion, but I feel grounded in my faith in Christ and the joy it brings to my life. As a philosopher, I know you could argue that point, but again, I know we can agree to disagree.

What do you mean you shouldn't comment on my hub?? Peee-shaa!! I welcome all your comments! Thank you for dropping by and sharing your thoughts and opinions. You are A-OK with me! I am glad we can talk about these things and not get spun up. See ya around! :-)


Giselle Maine 4 years ago

This is such a great article. There are many instances where the Bible exhorts us not to judge others. Christians who judge don't seem to realize that they are providing an inaccurate and bad view of our faith to others (whether the other is a believer OR a non-believer). Thank you for a wonderful down-to-earth article.


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

sholland10- Thanks for this hub, It seems OK to attack believers who are don't respond, but for other religions that murder and kill anyone who doesn't believe it's OK. You are right Christians can be obnoxious.

Its our job as believers to act like Christ and let the Holy Spirit draw people to Christ. God uses flawed people in a flawed world and brings them to a Holy God. Great Hub.

Rather tired of non believers attacking believers without rebuttal.

Thank you, Bob doe your honest and gracious comment


Pamela99 profile image

Pamela99 4 years ago from United States

I think you did a wonderful job writing this hub and I am a Christian. Sure there are many different types of Christian teachers and we all fall short. No one can be perfect, but I have had more joy and peace in my heart since becoming a Christian than I ever did before.


Rosemay50 profile image

Rosemay50 4 years ago from Hawkes Bay - NewZealand

A very interesting and thought provoking hub.

It is as with anything else, you always get those that go over the top, the fanatics. My son's ex-sister-in-law was such a fanatice. She told my son he would go to hell because he didn't go to church whether he believed or not. She was like this with everyone, even to the point of being nasty to people. That is until she fell pregnant out of wedlock, then there were those she had prteached to all too willing to stone her.

It is the fanatics that give Christianity a bad name and perhaps it is those people who need teaching how to be a 'good' Christian.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Giselle! :-)

You are so right about those who judge making our belief in Christ one to be ignored. Making nonbelievers angry is not showing them the love we are commanded to share.

So glad you dropped by! :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

TirelessTraveler, I am too human, so I let God handle what He believes needs to be done in our lives through the Holy Spirit. I would rather look at the person than to dwell on their sins... I have my own problems and have no right to pass judgment on another. :-)

Thanks for dropping by and commenting!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Pamela, well said! I feel the same way!

Thank you for dropping by! :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Rosemary, thank you for sharing your son's story. Going to church doesn't make us Christians. I hope the girl saw what she was doing and changed her perspective as a Christian.

Thanks for dropping by! :-)


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 4 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Sholland10,

("Judge not lest ye be judged.")

This verse is about hypocrisy and self-deception. Jesus is cautioning, or making sure that if we judge that we are willing to be judged by that same standard of judgement. It is a warning against certain types of unrighteous judgement. Pointing out destructive behaviour can be a hard thing to do, but in essence, it can be an action of showing love and concern for a person although they might not see it right away, will thank you later.

If we are required to forgive, then we have to be able to identify the wrong. Failing to do so would make forgiving impossible.

A decision is made whether something is good or not. A certain behaviour would fit a Biblical standard or not. Making a decision on what is sinful is being able to righteously discern what Biblical standards are. We don't judge others unless we are willing to be judged by the same standard ourselves.

(" If I point one finger at another, I have four others pointing back at me.")

This can be good if one is being accountable to a standard, but bad if one is being hypocritical to that standard.

Offenders are to be called to an account, examined, tried, and dealt with according to the rules of the Gospel, if one claims to be a follower of Jesus Christ.

A good example of improper cause for judgement would be trying to look holier, or judging out of spite and/or hatred towards an individual.

“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” - John 7:24

I believe that righteous judgement would not negate any of the fruits of the Spirit.

Although we may differ in perspective, I appreciate your tender heart towards others.

God Bless.


alocsin profile image

alocsin 4 years ago from Orange County, CA

As with other religions, Christianity sometimes fall prey to a few loud-mouthed extremists who send the wrong message about what the religion is. Voting this Up and Interesting.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

PlanksandNails, you and I have been down this road before. I know where you stand and you know where I stand. Most know the difference between saying what is right and wrong and the act of judging. This is all I have to say on the matter to you. Remember my e-mail.

Thank you for dropping by and commenting. God Bless.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Yes, ALocsin, Christians should spread the GOOD NEWS of Christ, which is that there is hope and love for all. :-)

Thank you for dropping by and the votes. :-)


BlossomSB profile image

BlossomSB 4 years ago from Victoria, Australia

A really great hub and you found some amazing images to go with it. Voted up and awesome.


BlossomSB profile image

BlossomSB 4 years ago from Victoria, Australia

I love your hub and the way you use it to help spread the Good News. Voted up and awesome.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Blossom! Yes, we should be spreading the Good News, not the "You're going to hell if..." That is not my place, only God's. :-)

Thank you for dropping by and the votes! :-)


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

In defense of Christians, I have to say that there are mature Christians and there are immature Christians. UNTIL a Christian comes to KNOW the limitless forgiveness of Christ and HIS faithful, enduring love for himself, there is no way that he can give that to others!

A new or baby Christian may be so filled with the fear of going to hell himself that because he is fearful, he will try to warn others that if they do such and such Gow will send them to hell. It's a common 'religious' belief in many denominations. It takes MUCH TIME TO RENEW THE MIND and get rid of that kind of fearful thinking.

To try to tell Christians this is 'wrong' is like telling them they are condemned and how is that the love of the brethren? Many that have come to Yeshua, have to be healed themselves.

NO ONE WHO COMES TO HIM IS AN INSTANT MATURE CHRISTIAN! And God is very capable of looking out for HIS own reputation....

extend that same love and understanding to Christians that have not YET attained the level of maturity you belive you have that you do to unbelievers or else it is hypocrisy. It takes much renewing one's mind in the word and much work by the Spirit of truth and holiness and much healing sometimes for God to mature His called. And HE delights in them as much as in the "mature" ones.


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Shalom sholland10,

I have been hurt by Christians since I came to Christ over 30 years ago. The Christians that hurt me most were the ones that expected me to be "instant perfect" and so this apology to an unbeliever about Christians that need as much love and understanding in their growth as any unbeliever really strikes a cord within me.

I never fit in any 'church' click. But did that turn me away from seeking GOD? No, that is just a lame excuse to have someone to blame. That excuse comes from the pit of hell...

Our Father says, Come to ME, not to others. We get hurt and disappointed looking to others for the acceptance, the love, the healing that ONLY God by His Spirit is even able to give us. It is not the other person. It is our expectation we put on the other person. I could still be embroiled in hate and rage toward my imperfect parents for not being that most loving and affirming parents in the world. But whose fault would that be?

God will not turn away anyone who goes to HIM and HIM alone for the love, the healing grace, that mercy and fulfillment that we all crave and need. Who ever said and where does the word say, God makes instant mature Christians. We have to be healed and grow just like everyone else...extend the same tolerance to your brethren as you do to the unbeliever or else it is hypocrisy. I did not and am not calling you a hypocrite. I am saying your rant on immature, growing Christians is hypocritical of you.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Shalah, I am not sure what you mean by my "rant on immature, growing Christians is hypocritical..." I did not discuss immature Christians. My main point is to share the Good News of the Love of Christ to reach as many people as we can. Just as God takes care of our sins by sending the Spirit to move us, He will do the same to those under conviction and will continue to do so as they move closer to Him. I understand what you are saying about immature Christians - they are new in the faith and they are on fire, which is a wonderful feeling. Some can be a bit over-zealous and make mistakes along the way, just as a child does during growth. God takes care of all those growing pains though. All is well in our hearts when we allow God to guide and control us. I wish everyone had that joy.

Thanks for your comments. :-)


rajan jolly profile image

rajan jolly 4 years ago from From Mumbai, presently in Jalandhar,INDIA.

Susan, this is beautiful and a hard hitting message has been sent to those who have no work except criticizing. I would just like to point out to these people - God PROVIDES for people who are believers in HIM as well as non believers. If HE does not discriminate, no one has the right to do so!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Rajan. We are all children of the ultimate Parent. He loves each and every one of us, warts and all. You are right, He does not discriminate when He loves us, and nor should we discriminate. I do not understand those who discriminate in the name of the Lord. It is all right for us to say what is right and wrong, but it is only God's place to judge. God Bless You, Rajan. Thank you for your strong comment.


Eric Newland profile image

Eric Newland 4 years ago from Dayton, Ohio

This is a good hub and a smart answer. Voted up and shared.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks Eric! I am glad you liked it. I appreciate you reading, voting, and sharing. :-)


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 4 years ago from Wales, UK

Hi Sholland, I saw Eric's comment in the feed, so thought I'd have a look. Voted up and beautiful. Good hub.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hey Disappearinghead, thanks for dropping by! I am glad you liked it and its message. I appreciate your votes and kind words. :-)


Chasuk 4 years ago

As a former Christian, I approve of this message. :-)

Actually, your message applies to both believers and non. Every time hat we open our mouths, we represent our label, and we all have labels, unavoidably.

Great hub! Voted up.


Ugly Honest profile image

Ugly Honest 4 years ago from Within the New York/DC Megalopolis

Cannot be stressed enough ... Well said .. Thanks !!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Chasuk, yes, everyone needs to apply compassion for others. We do not know the others' experiences or feelings. I appreciate you reading my hub. Many people who have left the Christian faith do not want anything to do with it. I hope you did not have a bad experience and wish for God's blessings to continue to pour out on you. :-)


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thank you, Ugly Honest! I appreciate you dropping by! :-)


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

I appreciate a REAL Christian much more then the totally phony faithless ones, that said I dont think it's necessary to raise Jesus to the status of God for his teachings to be of value. The Christians have kicked this idea around for hundreds of years then sneaked back thru history to rewrite it when they held the power to do so. To lie is to sin even when you think the ends justifies the means.. anyway nice hub. peace & love.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi GConeyhinden, I appreciate your comment. I do believe Jesus is God's Son, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. :-)

Thanks for dropping by!!


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

Believe what you must. I really dont understand that Jesus is God's son except in proper historical context. Unfortunately this is a big "take it or leave" it point for many who consider themselves Christians. I would hope when it comes to things like the subject of God people will search for the truth and not take the well beaten path but a more individual one where the true discovery will be made.


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

keep it up, you have your work cut out for you. making mistakes along the way is to put it mildly. I would follow Jesus into the desert but not a crowd into a church. On my arrival in old Jerusalem my right palm started to bleed. so what?


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi GConeyHiden! I guess I am narrow minded to believe Christ is the Son of God, but that is my path. I believe that is the path to Truth. We have free will, and as I said, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I know I will make many mistakes, and that is putting it mildly - lol, but that's okay. I'm human.

I understand your comment about not following some people into a church. That is why I wrote the hub. I guess I should give the church answer and say we should all go to church, but I think God is much bigger than that. Not to say there are not many wonderful people in church; it's the self-righteous ones who translate their beliefs rather than the unconditional love of God.

Take Care! :-)


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

when I mentioned mistakes I wasn't really refering to you but the more errant Christians who feel free to persecute people that are different then themselves. To give you a good example of true hypocrisy...the conservative right doesn't really like environmental regulations all that much. as if there is no downside to looking the other way. now scientists are finding that many pollutants can affect the endocrine system of many species and it can manifest itself in the abnormal sexual developement of these species. Humans may be on this list. ( if proven true) right wing conservatives may actually be partially responsible for creating some homosexual people then denying them what would make them feel dignified and happy.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

As a Christian, I believe we should show compassion to others and even if we do not agree with others, we should remember God loves all of us - something some Christians forget and that is hard for the human mind to comprehend.

I am a moderate and believe we are stewards of God's creation. We should not bury our heads in the sand when we see an injustice that can be harmful to all.


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

If I may answer your opening quote why Christians think if your not Christian your the devil's spawn....it's because after Jesus died he really did'nt come back to keep the masses in line. Christian priests have been talking smack for thousands of years. One priest in the 2nd century said all the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus and lo and behold that idea caught on and made murders of many errant Christians. It's estimated around 400,000 men women and children were killed in the years between 1000 AD and 1500 AD. because of this silly notion. I will tell you who killed Jesus...it was the Christians themselves. No wonder why they adhere to the idea if you accept Jesus as savior your sins are forgiven. They murdered whole villages and still wanted to get into heaven. Organized Religions can make nice post cards or empty whole villages, you can have your pick. Mel Gibson believes this nonsense. I wonder how many Christians still do? The "Jewish" priest was appointed by ROME!!!! not Jews. this was against Jewish law.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi GC, the hub was in response to a question asked in the Q/A. As you are pointing out in your comment, Christians have made major mistakes - now and throughout history. It was the reason I wrote the hub. Christians need to be God-righteous instead of self-righteous. If we are going to be Christians, we need to be Christ-like (I fail at this most times, but I do try). We should not cast stones.

On the other hand, I think many who are not Christians have this anger built up about the history of Christians; therefore, they feel they can bash Christians (no, I do not think you are bashing me. I find your discussions interesting). I think my behavior as a Christian is going to reflect on Christ. I do not want to push others away - and there are many other Christians out there who are just like me. Sure, we make mistakes, but we keep our eye on the goal.

The Pharisees and Sadducees plotted to have Christ crucified. That is because His power threatened them. I mean, here is this Guy telling people to love one another. How does that help the Phar and the Sad? They want to go around with an iron fist telling people what to do, judging them, and telling them to give their money. They were self-serving and they have many descendants disguising themselves as Christians. I speak out against that type of "Christian." I speak out out against what you describe above. That is exactly what is pushing people away from Christ and, in essence, away from a wonderful eternity. I believe that. I love happy endings, and this one is open to all.

Take care! I appreciate your comment. :-)


gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden 4 years ago from Brooklyn, N.Y.C. U.S.A

Hi again, your statement the Pharisees and Sadducees plotting to crucify Jesus is not actually correct in the greatest sense of truth but is sort of a by line to the Roman occupation and is probably a fabrication of history to smooth the way between Christians and Romans. During the Roman occupation of Judea it is estimated that between a few hundred thousand to perhaps a million Jews were put to death by the Romans who crucified people. If Jews got the death sentence under Jewish law they were stoned to death. It was the Romans who crucified thousands and thousands of Jews because they refused Roman rule. Jesus was Jewish and was one of many who met with this ghastly end. If the Roman were not around and the high priests wanted him dead they would have tried to have him stoned. The Romans found Jewish dupes to do their dirty work as Empires are known to do. They were resented not just by Jesus but by most Jews living there at that time. The Jewish priests you talk about were under the thumb of Rome and NOT independant actors. They had to act in the best interests of Rome and that meant keeping the peace during Passover. Your statement that they were self serving fails to mention Rome at all, And that is part of where the problem lies. and I do mean LIES. The whole history of Jesus and what actually happened is disputed and lost in fabrication.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi GC! Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

I think what you are saying above is what the Bible talks about. Rome wanted Christ dead from the time of Herod, who looked at Christ as a threat because He was being called the King of Kings, through the time of Pilot who "washed his hands" of Christ when the Pharisees and Sadducees went groveling to him so the heat would be taken off them for Christ's crucifixion. So, in essence, I think we might be agreeing with each other.

The difference is that I believe Christ was/is not just any Jew, but the Son of God, and you believe He was just one of the unfortunate millions who died at the hands of Rome (and the Pharisees and Sadducees ). Except for this, I think our stories fit. :-)

I am not going to try to shake you from your belief that the story of Christ that Christians know today is a lie, and you are not going to shake me of my belief in Christ as the Savior of the world and that the Word of God is inspired by God. To me, man is fallible, God is not.

Thanks for your comments. I have enjoyed our discussions.

Take Care!


gconeyhiden 4 years ago

hi, ok im finished after this Holl but must ad for proper sake of history, In order to put the the bible and what it refers to in proper perspective you should look into Jesus and the Jewish community and culture he came from. Please remember there was NO Christian history or culture while Jesus was alive. you will find a highly respected rabbi named Hellel from Judea who almost it seems took Jesus's words out of his mouth. fact is he died in 10 AD when Jesus was very young. I do not concider Jesus just any Jew and this is why I read so much about him. you will also find in ancient Jewish culture the title son of God given to the ancient kings of Isreal and that the Jews are sometimes refered to as God's children. The Jewish messiah is a revolutionary figure..a warrior..who will come and free the Jewish people from oppression and build another temple. Herod was the one who built the 2nd. temple but he was a nominal Jew working for Rome. So if the messiah is showing up...that's not good for Rome because if they do believe he is indeed the true messiah they and the Jewish puppet administration are expecting real trouble having to suppress another rebellion in Jerusalem and this meant alot of bloodshed. This would have been brutally crushed by the Romans. Jesus knew this and must have been very brave indeed to walk into Jerusalem and give himself up. On the other hand they may have just seen him as another trouble maker not worthy of respect so they crucfied him just for stepping out of line,nobody really knows. By the way... I am universally troubled by certain facets of all organized religions not just Christianity. I hope one day the idea of universal sacredness will replace actual religions. I see Jesus as perhaps the most abused person in history and find that kind of sad. Its important we dont add to any misconceptions that may lead us away from the truth. I think he would have wanted it that way I'm sure. take care, gh.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 4 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi GH! Sorry I have taken so long to respond. I believe Jesus was and is the Messiah. He states in Matthew 10 that He did not come to bring peace. He did not come to abolish the law. He came to divide. People either choose Him or they don't, and, as you see every day, that has caused much disagreement and hardship.

In His Second Coming, He will come as a Warrior. The Jewish leaders knew what the prophets had written, and Rome probably knew too, which is why Herod wanted to kill the Christ Child.

I have enjoyed our discussion. Your history knowledge is impressive, but it has solidified my belief more than discouraged it. You and I believe in two different truths. I don't want to lead anyone away from the Truth I know. I want people to see the Love of Christ, not the pointing finger of judgment. That is my bottom line.

Again, I have enjoyed talking with you.

Take Care,

Susan :-)


Kasman profile image

Kasman 3 years ago from Bartlett, Tennessee

Thank you Sholland for writing this post. I just returned from living in New Zealand for several months and I was deeply involved in the Bible and studying the historical and archaeological evidence of the proof and infallibility of it. I was amazed at what I found and I can appreciate what you said. I find the discussion here enlightening as I find that it's been done right. We can't beat people over the head to Jesus. Too many people have tried that. Just like Paul in the book of Ephesians when he would use the term "mystery of Christ" to reach them because in Ephesus, everyone prided themselves on knowledge and a mystery would have been insatiable to their appetites to know. God bless and thank you for a well written article. Two thumbs up.


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 3 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Hi Kasman,

Your travels and work sound very interesting. I would love to bring as many people as possible to Jesus, but I know that some are not going to be receptive. The best I can do is try to show the Fruits of the Spirit. Judging and hammering that they are sinners and need to repent and forgetting that I am also a sinner is wrong and only turns people away. I believe we will be held responsible for each word and action. I have enough against me without adding self-righteous, hypocrisy to my list. LOL Sometimes this is easier said than done, but we must try to control ourselves with God's guidance so we do not turn others away.

Thanks so much for dropping by and sharing your story and information, too. I appreciate the thumbs up. :-)


Crystal Tatum profile image

Crystal Tatum 3 years ago from Georgia

I appreciate the message here. As one pastor I heard speak recently said, the church has focused more on what it's against than what it's for and that drives people away. It's true. The self-righteousness of some can be very harmful. Bravo for writing this!


sholland10 profile image

sholland10 3 years ago from Southwest Missouri Author

Thanks, Crystal! Some Christians do tend to focus on what they believe to be bad rather than what God has told us is good. We know right from wrong, but we need to leave the judging to God. :-)

Thanks so much for dropping by!!

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