Contradictions in the bible

Just a list, do with it what you will....

  1. The last thing that Jesus said. There are three, count them three different versions that arent even remotely like one another. If the bible was inspired by god, then why are three different men writing three different versions of Christs last words? Matthew Luke and John all write his last words differently.
  2. In the book of luke, we are given two entirely different geneologies for Jesus. One goes back to Abraham, and one goes back to Adam.
  3. The bible speaks on how no man can see god and live, yet the bible also says god spoke to moses face to face like 2 friends.
  4. The bible says that animals were created before man, and than man was created before the animals. WTF?
  5. Aparently Adam was supposed to die the day he ate the fruit of the tre of knowledge of good and evil, but the bible says he lived over 900 years.
  6. Genesis says that Noah entered the ark, after it already said that he entered the ark.
  7. The bible says that Abraham had two sons, and then it says he had one.
  8. Aparently Abraham and his half sister got together and recieved god's blessings on it. But The bible also says incest is wrong.
  9. God forbids the making of ANY graven images. Then at a later time, god delights in 2 graven images. ?? Are you getting the picture? Men wrote these things down, and man is flawed.
  10. We all know that god forbids adultry, but then he tells Hosea to take a "wife of harlotry"
  11. Aparently David killed Goliath 2wice. Once with a slingshot, once with a sword.

 

 

You know what I dont understand??

 I dont understand how you can take the bible word for word when it contradicts itself hundreads of times. I mean, its even down to what they gave jesus to drink at the end. Was it wine with myrh? or was it vinigar? I guess we will never know because the people who put all of these stories together didn't proof read i guess.

I mean, christians have seriously told me that if the bible says something that  that means it is absolutely true. How can that be when more often than not in the bible there were two totally different stories for each scenario.

Like, you might want to take a look at some of the reasons why people like me have such a problem following something that isnt even true to itself. Its almost like a lie to say one thing and then in a matter of three scriptures say something totally different. I am finding out more and more that the bible is really just a book of stories, and im amazed at the impact it has had on people. Im starting to feel as though it is more of a question of loyalty than of belief.

I recently found out that Adam had a woman before Eve. Did you know that? That First it was a woman named Lilith who refused to lie under Adam because she was made as his equal? I know that its just a made up story, but still, there are facts there that some people will go their whole life without knowing. Why? Well, someone said that it was because most people are ignorant, and that the truth about Lilith is hidden from them because they wont be able to "understand it." Really? How do you feel about that? Not being told part of a truth because your to stupid to understand it. And aparently this Lilith is imortal, so shes still around somewhere. Yea.

I would really like to know what you have to say about all of this. What are your opinions? I mean, I want to hear from everyone. Because Comming onto hubpages as ive said a zillion times I really didnt know what my main belief was. But im definately weeding out what my beliefs arent. And I have to tell you, it makes me very sorrowful that  beautiful heaven is probably not there, and if it is, It has nothing to do with anything the bible tells us.

Every culture has its stories and beliefs. I mean, you dont find it funny that a bunch of people founded this country with the beliefe of their native country being in god, and that that is our main religeon in the united states? We have come to believe these things because we have been conditioned to believe them. They are in our face everyday, I mean even our currency says "in god we trust."

it is absolutely amazing to me the impact one book can have on so many. The thing is, I do not believe it is because this book is true. I believe that it is because As humans we ache and long for a reason. I do understand why people follow things, and put belief in things because it makes us feel that there is a reason, or that there is someone who is there when no one else is.

We need to believe more in ourselves. We need to stop asking for devine intervention when we have not exahausted all of our options. We need to realize that we are the ones with the power over our own lives, and that our potential will always be greater than our result.

Please think about what your life would be like if you truely put more faith in yourself than you did is something that you have no way of knowing is true.

 

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Comments 276 comments

HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Fancy little hub

The Bible cant contradict itself, only people can contradict the Bible. Usually the contradiction takes place due to lack of Knowledge and Understanding. I could tick everyone of your points off and give the explanation.

eg: Apparently David killed Goliath 2wice. Once with a slingshot, once with a sword.

He knocked him to the ground with the sling, then cut off his head with the sword.

or

The stone from the sling killed Goliath and he cut off Goliaths head with the sword.

take your pick,still David killed Goliath.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

1 Samuel 17:50 (King James Version)

50So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.

1 Samuel 17:51 (King James Version)

51Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

So aparently you cant read. David was said to slay goliath with a stone, and then draw his sword and slay goliath with the sword and then cut his head off. How can he slay him with a sword if he already slew him with a stone???

Come back when youve got something bigger.

And as an added note, the bible does contradict itself many many times.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

I've never been one of the folks who believes that the Bible is the literal truth. But on the thing about Adam and Lilith and so forth, Adam was warned that he ought not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because if he did, he would die. There was no timetable, though, and eventually, he did die (900 years later). Not really a great way to demonstrate cause and effect, though. :)

But Lilith, who, as far as we know, didn't eat that fruit, is immortal. That bit makes sense (if you believe that miraculous things can happen).

(Not trying to convert you, just making an observation.)

As for the currency saying 'In God We Trust,' it's only been that way since the 1950s. The Pledge of Allegiance didn't mention God in the first two versions. 'Under God' didn't get put in there until the 50's either. (I've written a couple hubs about those subjects, incidentally).

Rated up.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

I don't see a contradiction, but I do see a lack of reading ability, and understanding.

Smote " Hebrew" - nakah = to strike, smite, hit, beat.

Slew "Hebrew" - muwth = to die, kill, have one executed

1Sa 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang [it], and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

1Sa 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but [there was] no sword in the hand of David.

1Sa 17:51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

Humans want to find contradiction so they invent it.


GojiJuiceGoodness profile image

GojiJuiceGoodness 6 years ago from Roanoke, Virginia

#1--Did either of the three men claim them to be Jesus' last words? I'd have to look this up, but I am not inclined to believe it as a contradiction--we just don't understand it.

#2--Geanologies are confusing & I admit I don't understand it completely, but it doesn't contradict itself.

#3--I know the incident you're talking about, but if you recall Moses didn't SEE God face to face. When Moses asked to see God, God placed Moses in a crag/dip in the rocks & told him he would see the back or hind parts of God. And, as you read that is all Moses saw. I don't have the reference right on the tip of my tongue, but it's in the Bible.

For #4, where does it say man was created before animals?!

#5--Adam did die. God said he could not live forever like God is living forever. And, Adam didn't necessarily have to die immediately, he just couldn't live forever. And he didn't.

#6--Read Genesis 7:1-10. It says that God commanded Noah to do many things, including going into the ark & that Noah obeyed. Then later it gives the specifics of what he took with him (his family) when he went into the ark. It never says he went into the ark twice.

#7--Can you provide the scripture? And yes, Abraham did have two sons & then he had one more & that makes 3.

#8--what's this??

#9--God said "Thou shalt not worship any graven images of anything that is in heaven above or under the earth below." Believe me, God wasn't worshiping graven images. And what images was He taking delight?

#10--what's the verse here?

#11--he wounded or knocked Goliath unconscious with the slingshot. He might have killed him with it. And then he sliced off his head with the sword--isn't a good idea to make sure your enemy is 100% dead? Sometimes when killing, you've got to do 2 things to make sure he's dead.

I agree with HOOWANTSTONO when he said, "Humans want to find contradiction so they invent it." If we think there are contradictions, that's because we're not understanding or reading the Bible. The Bible is perfect--we are the ones affected by sin & it's our imperfected minds & hearts that aren't understanding.


cheaptrick profile image

cheaptrick 6 years ago from the bridge of sighs

Jesus was a Jew,he was born a Jew,he lived as a Jew,he died a Jew, and he was resurrected a Jew....To bad he couldn't have waited thirty more years...He could have been a Christian!

Walk into any given Christian church on any given Sunday and you'll likely find a preacher quoting the Torah[old testament].

Go to any Synagogue and see if you can find a Rabbi quoting the new testament.

You folks claim the Torah as part of your Bible but Judaism completely rejects your new testament the twenty seven books of which were originally chosen by the Bishop of Alexandria[that's Egypt]and reinforced by Constantine as an act of Unification for his empire[political motives]then you did your best to wipe out All opposing views of Christs teachings[and almost succeeded]until archaeologists began uncovering things you missed.You Proto Orthodox Christians have no more claim to the truths that Christ taught than anyone else,you were just more ruthless once you became the official religion of Rome in the attempted extermination of your opponents.History and therefore your version of the Bible is always writen by the victors,that doesent make you right...just powerful.

Nice hub

Dean


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Hi Pink Umbrella. I knew that there would be many comments for you on this one. Sadly the answers you want cannot come from the standpoint of argument. That is the main problem with debate over any religious writing. For instance, in the 90s a man claimed to have gotten 3000 pages of words from God and he published books on it... Well, didn't that just freak a bunch of people out and make them fight every word, which is actually some very good writing, good for knowledge, which is what the Bible is supposed to be. "Good for Knowledge" but later it says you aren't supposed to make too much of reading, go figure.

The answers are so simple that even a child, when told the truth, could understand them. There were three different types of religious documents found and transcribed to from the Bible. This is because there were always three sides to every story, his side, her side, and the witnesses side. Somewhere in there we, with a discerning spirit (received by asking God for understanding) take it into the court of law that is our mind, body, and spirit.

Since you chose to quote the Goliath story, we'll use that. I never quote scripture because it means different things to different people:

David was small compared to the Philistine and yet he found the big man had a weakness and with a stone he was able to slay him. This speaks to our mind, no matter how big our adversary, they have a weakness, and even if that weakness is small, with knowledge of it and correct aim, we can bring him down.

David took the sword and cut off his head, slaying him. This speaks to our body, just because we have slain our adversary, does not mean our troubles are over. If there is no witness, no token, no receipt of the physical dealing of the death blow, then we can still be perceived as weak.

David slew him twice, once for himself with the stone, which no one would believe, and then again with the sword, for the witnesses.

Now as far as final words go. Many people remember their own history by word of mouth. The stories of Jesus were not written down because it was a crime to believe in him. The stories were whispered in houses and back rooms of inns. Of course there are discrepancies. Look to the stories that rose up about Howard Hughes after he died. There were so many people who no one ever heard of who took part in the inheritance of his estate... Wow, kind of like us, taking inheritance of a document that is thousands of years old, and trying to make sense of it.

For you, keep what speaks to your mind, speaks to your spirit, speaks to your body. You will feel what is good and right for your own knowledge. Don't try to duke it out with others, that will only cause frustration and keep you from getting the true message of the book, which has very little to do with the stories in it.

This describes the different authors of the Bible as four, but it's a good start for your research and will lead you in amazing directions. E is for Elohist writer, those who called God Elohim, J (German letter Y)for Yahwist, those who called Him YHWH, and then P for Priestly and D for Deuteronomist. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1985/who-...

Interesting fact you might keep in mind. The language of the old testament had no vowels, which means you had to guess or be taught what the words were and what they meant. Try that today DG is that dog or dig, wow, two completely different images there.

But most Christians won't tell you all this, because most of them just take it all on faith.

So I wrote you a hub within a comment, hope you don't mind.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

cheaptrick- let it all out...lol


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jeff- there is no way that the human body can live 900 years, so thats out. You know what else sounds meraculous? The stories of the greek and Roman gods.

And no, i dont believe that meraculous things can happen if they include the first woman to ever live still walking around sipping slurpies and wearing a thong. Nope sorry try again.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hoowantstono- Im going to break this down for you and hold your hand like a child. You added 1Sa17:49 in the hopes that yu would what...distract me from the facts? Your silly, because that scripture has nothing to do with what i said. So if you want to play it that way, fine.

1Sa 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang [it], and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

(Wow, he hit goliath with a stone. You think i dont know what smote means? what do you think i am some kind of moron?)

1Sa 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but [there was] no sword in the hand of David.

(Hey, what do you know he kills him with a stone! I mean, you did say that slew means to have killed right?)

So, he slays him with a stone, and then he slays him again with a sword. YOU ARENT READING WHAT YOUR PASTING.

No one invented contradiction, they just saw that one thing was said and then an entirely different thing was said on the same matter, and they came up with a name for it. Nough said on that.

1Sa 17:51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

Humans want to find contradiction so they invent it.

Okay, so you can see that ke killed him...and then killed him again? You cant kill someone twice, unless they come back from the dead. maybe you should start actually reading the bible instead of just copying and pasting it.

Thanks for playing.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Like I said

The Bible cant contradict itself, only people can contradict the Bible


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

"there is no way that the human body can live 900 years, so thats out."

Yeah, either the guys who wrote Genesis forgot to carry the one or something, or biology used to work a lot differently than it does now. Again, not the literal truth, imo.

"You know what else sounds meraculous? The stories of the greek and Roman gods." Indeed. YHWH doesn't claim to be the only god, just insists that we don't worship any others before him. (I wonder if we could get away with worshiping another one /afterwards/?)

"And no, i dont believe that meraculous things can happen if they include the first woman to ever live still walking around sipping slurpies and wearing a thong."

I'd hope that Lilith would have developed a better sense of fashion than /that/, The. I see her as wearing her own line of practical yet stylish clothing.

"Okay, so you can see that he[David] killed him[Goliath]...and then killed him[Goliath] again? You cant kill someone twice, unless they come back from the dead."

Another miracle!

The thing is, (and we Christians as a general rule don't get this) is that nothing in the Bible makes much sense in our context as a scientifically advanced society. Either we have to accept that the events in the Bible are allegorical and not literally true, or we have to imagine a world (this world, but in the past) where the current laws of science did not always work, and miracles were routine. Maybe the laws of science hadn't been finalized? Or maybe the original authors were just trying to put something that was hard to understand into language that we could understand? I don't know.

But I do know that using the Bible as proof that the Bible is true is no proof at all, and that you have to take it (the existence of God, etc.) on faith. You can't 'prove' it, and by my lights, it's pretty silly to try.

Believe or don't. It's all one to me. I wish more of us would relax about it.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

Also, I just had a vision of a zombie Goliath coming after David.... Zombie Lazarus.... Jesus came back from the dead, too, didn't He...?


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Not really. The same method to measure time in those days is still the same today, so if the records say 900 yrs then it is 900 yrs. The sun and moon in those days is the same today no difference NASA would tell you that. The Sun and Moon Solar and Lunar calendars are accurate all the time. The Bible has the calendar spelt out in Genesis. The earths environment changed and people stopped living as long as then.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

"The earths environment changed and people stopped living as long as then."

Really? I mean, /really/?

HOO, there's this guy, William of Ockham. You might want to try out his razor.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Seems you tried it out, can take your advice there.

lol


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 6 years ago

Seems I say cheers dude and dudette.....Bye


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Gojijuicegoodness- Wow, are you serious?

1-yes, all three men stated that the words they were saying were jesus' final words. You should look it up. Why do all of you christians take anything in the bible that is an obvious mistake and say that we dont understand it? If you mother said to your family that she bought 3 oranges, and your dad told you later that when she said that, that she said she changed a lightbulb, and your brother said that she said she ate a chicken wing, you would say that those two stories contradict what actually happened. your mom bought oranges, she didnt change a lightbulb or eat a chicken wing. If you heard her say what she actually did, than you would see that the two other stories were WRONG, and that they contradict what actually happened. So either someone has no idea what happened and is making something up, or your mom lied.

2-Yea, your geneology cant stop at abraham one minute, and then stop at adam the next. it is a contradiction. It says that it STOPPED at one of these men. His geneology didnt high five abraham on the way to adam, it stopped.

3-you bring me the refrance, and then we will talk because i researched all of the examples i gave. I know what the bible says, what kind of person would i be if i were here rebuking what was said, if i dont know exactly word for word what it says?

4-LMFAO....are you serious? next time you come to battle religeon with me, maybe you should blow the dust off of your bible.

5-Yea, if he ate from the tree he would die. 900 years is kind of a stretch. He was the one that ate the damn fruit, and he lives 9x's longer than we do. How fair is that?

6-It does say he went into the ark twice. You are too cute, how old are you?Genesis

7:7 (King James Version)

7And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

Genesis 7:13 (King James Version)

13In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Yep.

7-You so ready to challange me, why arent you providing the scripture? Dare i say i am more interested in reading my bible than you are in reading yours? You come back with the scripture and if im wrong, ill promote your hubs. because i know im not. Not about the number of his sons people, but about the number of times that the bible conclusively states how many of them that he has.

8-Can you read? or do you have someone reading the bible for you? You are so they type of christian i hate. You will back this bull shit up until your blue in the face, but you have no idea what your even fighting for.

Genesis 20:11-12 (King James Version)

11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

12And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Yea, she was his sister. They had the same dad. Dont tell me thats ok, because the physical anomolies are the outcome of incest. Unless its ok with you that Abrahams children may have been born with or without fingernails.

9-your an idiot. Im telling you if you come back here ever agian and come unarmed i will delete your comment.

Exodus 20:4 (King James Version)

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 25:18 (King James Version)

18And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

You do know what a graven image is dont you?

10- Hosea 1:2 (King James Version)

2The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

Exodus 20:14 (King James Version)

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

11- you can read my comment to hoobastank or whatever his name is. it clearly states that he slew him, and not a verse later, it states he slew him. It said nothing about making sure anyone was dead it is clearly a mistake, and by what you just said, it shows me your reaching because of your loyalty....and that fine, be loyal, but dont think for one second were all going to buy into your spook house bull shit.

As and end to this conversation, I disagree with you and your fellow christian up there. people find contradiction in the bible because THEY CAN READ. You refuse to question it because you have been conditioned not to, you have been told that it is wrong. Look for contradiction...why? The only reason I wrote this hub was because i was reaading about Abraham. I was literally looking up everything i could find about him, and then i decided to go read it in my bible. I stumbled apon the contradictions while reading, I wasnt "seeking them out."


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

hoowantstono- oh im sorry sir, you are so right the bible can not contradict itslef...get outta here. Why cant it? because you wont allow that notion to even enter you mind? Your a piece of work.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Faybe bay- thats fine that your comment is long, i dont mind. However, no christian can tell you that there are descrepencies in the bible because of your whisper down the lane theory that i agree may be plausable. They will just tell you that exactly what was said was the absolute truth.

However, what you are saying about how there are three different sides to every story...id really like to know more about that. I have to apologise only for the fact that "taking it all on faith" is not good enough for me.


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

"However, no christian can tell you that there are descrepencies in the bible .... They will just tell you that exactly what was said was the absolute truth. "

Uh...The? Didn't I just...?:/


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jeff- you see, thats the thing. I was all fine and well and ready to be calm and let people believe what they want to believe. But in going into the forums, I have seen the nastiest comments come out of christians mouths. They are always the first ones to get nasty and lash out. They actually pushed me further away from belief than i was, and now im a total non believer. This came about as i researached some of the things they were saying, and found out that they were either lying about scripture, twisting it, quoting the wrong scripture, etc... So angry and mean yet so little to back themselves up with.

I totaly get christians who see the bible as a book of stories to follow the examples, but i hate it when it is taken so literally. Which it mostly is, you have to admit.

I was never one to sit here and make someone question their beliefs, but when you come across someone who wont quit until they've prayed the sinners prayer with you, you start to get more than pissed. I left others alone, but they just couldnt leave me alone, and i got angry because after awhile, and alot of research and conversation, this whole thing just seems like a big fat sory. So, sorry. But i prefer to base my utter beliefs on something true, and unless you can prove something is true to me, than you can forget me believeing in it.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jeff- Bravo for catching me in a moment where i was generalizing you christians. Wooptie doo for you.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jeff- your joking with me about the zombie thing right? Look, i dont want to start getting all personal attack on each other, ive read some of your hubs and respect you as a writer. So can we keep this crap as impersonal as possible please?


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

All of the exapmles i listed in my hub came directly from the bible. That is enough said. You cant twist or bend those facts any way to make them not what they are.

And as an added note, if there are three sides to every story, and they are not almost exactly alike, then there is the question of whose version do we believe? Yea, chew on that one my friends.


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Hey Pink, your hub is turning into a regular forum all it's own, Bravo! This hub is alive! I will send you an e-mail with a hub I wrote about this subject you might like.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Fabe Bay- yea, that happens when you write about religeon, its happened to me before. I didnt really think it would happen this time though, because people were nice at first, and i was happy with that. Then i get people who just want to argue. Namely hoobastank or whatever whats his name hooyouwaanaknow or whatever?? lol


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 6 years ago

I reduce all religions to their simplicity.

If any religion, political party, government, etc. does not cling to, adhere to, promote, and obey the Golden Rule, it is a club, club and hardly anything to align yourself with. Christians and all religions (?) would do well do disassociate themselves with any political party.


tom hellert profile image

tom hellert 6 years ago from home

Ok Pink i am now prepared to comment I have read this hub and will reitterate my existing thoughts on God and expand on some points here-

Ok I believe there is a God a supreme being that created heaven and earth - in the "Big Bang-" thats how he did it

as for time - who here or anyone knows what Gods clock has for hands- 3 hands minute Eon hand millenium hand ?

He has his own time schedule- i am not sure what it is but it isnt year day and minute - to the Bible- Its a great work- WRITTEN BY- WHO WHO?

MEN- and in that we have to admit we cannot find perfection- anything man touches is flawed any questions look in the mirror... Folks if you take the bible as literally the word of God you are just Silly- ever play telephone- A person says something in anothers ear and it goes around the room until it comes back to the originator as a totally different message And remember the bible was written in a now defunct language- So not only has the words been transcribed numerous times by numerous people who are perfect- right...

Oh did i mention the buble was written in different language and a dead one at that... how many people know how to speak those old languages?. anyone who believes the bib;le is perfect is fooling themselves-any suchbelief of perfection when humans are involved - get real get a clue-

i am a christian J have heard god when i was dead- see my 3 hubbs on this - 9 sorry pink for the shameless plug)

So i believe in God i don't believe in mans ability to get things right and WHO WROTE THE BIBLE, REWROTE IT, TRANSCRIBED IT,

RETRANSCRIBED IT, PRINTED IT NND REPRINTED IT. FOLKs c'mon give me a break....use what god gave you between your ears to hear and think....So everyone just back off of Pink, she is just giving and defending her OPINION- OBAMA has not made opinions illegal yet...

TH


tom hellert profile image

tom hellert 6 years ago from home

Oh yea what if david popped him with a stone then... took his sword from hiis belt and chopped his head off cmon folks david was a boyscout- he came prepared for battle why would the bible say david

armed with his sling 15 sling stones a broad sword at his side that he nick named "choppy van choppenstein" cmon folks get real- so the bible didn't list he had sword whoop di do-

So the bible has multiple versions of the same events - i don't think anyone had a videocamera or a pad and paper at the crucifiction "I am sorry Jesus could you repeat that... ""Forgive them Lord for they have wax in their ears". OK FOLKS let me paraphrase the whole bible-

"DO GOOD AVOID EVIL"=see you in heaven...

thank you and good night

TH


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tom- you and i have become such good friends that i think were starting to share the same menstral cycle...good work lol


Jeff Berndt profile image

Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

The,

Of /course/ I was joking about the zombie thing. Look, I support your position on this. I do. I'm a believer. You're not. That's okay! You say the Bible is full of contradictions? It totally is! (I don't understand how anyone who claims to /study/ the Bible could refuse to even acknowledge that.)

I'm really sorry, The, if I offended you with the zombie crack. I thought you'd have laughed about it. (I thought it was pretty funny, anyway.)

What it all comes down to is this: I agree with your points. But it's not nearly as funny to say just that. Apparently my wise-acreage backfired on me. It's been known to do that from time to time. So, again, sorry for offending you. Didn't mean to.


nightwork4 profile image

nightwork4 6 years ago from ontario. canada

though i have read parts of the bible it was never a book that i could finish so to argue the bible quotes with someone is not something i can honestly do. your hub though is exactly what i've said thousands of times. the bible is a book, nothing more nothing less. if you want to believe in god so be it but telling people that the bible was written by gods word is not only foolish but it makes god look like a science fiction writer. awesome hub again miss.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jeff- oh, no way, i just wasnt sure if you were being sarcastic or not, as we were in a sort of heated debate, all of us here in the comment box. Love your humor and that just because i dont believe in the bible (not necessarily a higher power) that you dont treat me like im an idiot.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

nightwork- you and i are in total agreement. Im running over to your page right now...


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

If you have come to hubpages seeking enlightenment, forget it! Every vagabond church reject is here preaching their own misguided unchurched doctrine they can think of. (i don't mean to be offensive but i am talking the whole scope of hubpages not some of you who are familiar with me) Some have had angel visitations, some believe in many layers of hell, all for sinners of varying sinfulness. jehovahs witness, 7th day, absolute salvationists, calvanists, catholics. If you want my advice, lol, find a church, visit all of them in your area, you can skip the catholic ones, anglican etc. and find someplace that you feel directed by the spirit to attend, be faithful there, get involved somehow. Listen, learn, grow slowly in the things of god. God will reward you as you prove faithful to him and by adhering to his principles. I won't discuss tithing with you because yes we are under grace but if you want gods best, give god your best in every area. You can make some really good friends in churches. God is the head of the church inspite of people who have no faith in it, god will move you around as your growth and desire inspire Him to. There is only christ, keep him first and foremost, learning doctrine or decyphering the mysterious scriptures will come in due time. Print what you want here, things you are sure of, but to read hubpages and treat it as inspired of god holy text, well, you have the bible for that. Do not go outside of the bible as many would have you do. The bible is all you need, coupled with prayer and patience, will produce desirable fruit.

god bless you according to his will and purpose for your life


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

although i appreciate your comments, i must reiderate.....I DONT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE. ok, i think that was quite enough yelling. Respecting others opinions and positions means not yessing them to death, and then suggesting that they go and do something that they clearly do not subscribe to. Im not a christian people...im not. im not going to pray to jesus or read the bible for faith. i do read it, but thats for research and because i need a consant refresher of what i am writing about.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

brotheryochanan seems to believe that it would embarass me to have in my comment box that i was wrong about something. He emailed me explaining that jesus was given 2 things to drink at the end. I stand corrected, and always admit when i am wrong. However, brother...there are contradictions in the bible, and just because you proved one of them wrong, does not mean that there are not countless others. you tell me to give you my best shot via email, but you come onto the comment box and act all nice and docile. Give you my best shot?? check out all 11 examples on this page. pick one jerk. do not publically make nicey nice and then privately challange me in a nasty way, ill call you out every time. there are no secrets here.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

by the way, as an added note, you give me the f*cking creeps. there is a horrible vibe comming from you, i felt it instantly, and im never wrong about that. dont come back.


Enlydia Listener profile image

Enlydia Listener 6 years ago from trailer in the country

Dear Pink Umbrella...I haven't read your profile yet, so I will say this based just on the vibes...(and then read more about you)...you are knowledgeable about scripture...therefore well studied...you have studied under someone(?) who has caused you to deny God. You have come to hate scripture due to something in your past...there is some yearning to know the truth...

In one of my conversations with the Voice, he told me something about the men who "wrote" the bible...btw, it was recorded by men...but God inspired...so you can see why there many be a little problem in your accepting the truth of it. Please read my "Written By His Orders"...it is my conversation with the Voice, who I like to think of as God.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Enlydia Listener- When i was in junior high, my brother and i went to a small penocostal school. This preacher got up, and had about 15 people stand in a line, and went along "slaining" them in the spirit. Every devout christian went down. my brother was yerning for something to believe in, but when the preacher got to my brother, my brother didnt go down. My brother was praying to god asking to feel his presence and love, yet nothing. The preacher was pressing on my brothers head, and looking at him in the eyes. The preacher went so far as to push my brother, yet he still did not fall. After about 10 minutes, the preacher whispered "just go down." This did not anger me, yet made me curious. I started reading the bible obsessively looking for answers. You know what i got? A better understanding of what the bible truely is. I read with an open heart, and i found nothing. This is not anyones fault, or mine. This is me fingding that the "truth" is not exactly as it appears to be. i also know someone who has met with our maker..although since i have not, i refuse to take anyones word for it. I do find him blessed however that he has been given knowledge that we all have not. You cannot be sure of whome you were speaking with. My aunt lives in kentucky, and she is on medication because she has conversations with people that arent there. She will swear to you that she has a twin sister. She sincerely believes, and for her, it is real. That is why i cannot truely ever believe someone when they say they have spoken to the lord. Not many people believe one story in perticular that i have, that i have kept a secret because of so much ridicule. I have been told by many christians that my experience was "the devil trying to sway me from the lord" If you knew the story, you might think so too. I am being rather nice to you because you sincerely believe in the lord, and i dont dare try to take that from you. Also, you have acknowledged the fact that men are flawed, and their writings may be as well. Have a wonderful day. I know the truth, but you would never believe me if i told you.


tincobra 6 years ago

Not sure if anyone mentioned this because there are lots of comments. But I took it David took Goliath's sword and cut his head off with it. Many people can read things for what they want them to say, but to accuse the Bible of contradictions and also claim it has been altered by man is complete ignorance. Your talking about a period in time where many sins would cost you your life and where truth was held in highest regard. It's basically ignorant to say a person contridicted themselves in writing just a few sentences apart.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Went back and read the full context of the David Vs. Goliath, because the biggest mistake people make in presenting the Bible is that they take words out of it. Now it's called the Word of God for a reason, that's because from Genesis to Revelation is all one Word, though made up of individual words, so if you truely seek truth do not cherry pick scriptures (take out of context). If you go back and read 1 Samuel you'll find where Saul dressed David in his armor and sword, but after David walked around in it, he realized it wasn't natural for him and he took it off and picked up his staff and 3 stones. Even before David kills Goliath he tells him that he is going to kill him and cut of his head, so we see David's full intent right from the start. He hits Goliath with the stone, then runs up on him and takes Goliath's sword (remember david did not come with a sword, he was just a shepard boy) and as a salt in the wound gesture, David uses Golaith's own sword to cut off Goliath's head. You need to understand the times and culture that the author's were involved in to completely get a grasp on the entire Bible. The good news is though that although man is full of sin, Jesus came and paid the price for your sin so you may have eternal life, that is plain and clear.

I did find your comment about Pentecostal's very interesting, because I thought I was reading my own story. The first Church I ever attended was a Pentecost Church. After going there for quite some time I finally decided I wanted to speak in tongues. I spent what seemed like hours after church praying and praying with people huddled over me, to the point I just started crying for my grandmother. I never spoke in tongues and still don't to this day. That experience and that church almost ruined me, because I felt I was unwanted by God, because the Pentecostal's taught me that speaking in tongues was affirmation of salvation and that you must speak in tongues to be saved. But thankfully God got a hold of me again many years down the road. Two years after my father's murder I felt God tugging on my heart again, so I gave my life to Christ and I made myself a promise that I would read the Bible for myself and not let somebody behind a pulpit tell me what it says. I also prayed that if there is one thing God blesses me with, let it be wisdom. So with God's word and His wisdom to help me understand it I found where Paul talks about the gifts of the spirit. He plainly and clearly states that speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit, not affirmation of salvation and that not all people will have every gift, he even goes on to say what good is speaking in tongues if people don't understand what your saying. Originally from my take on the Bible, speaking in tongues was a way for Jesus's disciples and followers to preach the Good News in other people's language, and not all of the believer's in Christ obtained this gift. I hope you don't give up on God, because the fact is, if there is a god, that the most important decision in your entire existance is to find out and to seek with an open heart.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

tincobra- are you saying that sins were held accountable more so then than they are now? Because that in itself is an ignorant statement. Yes, in about 2-3 sentances a person can totally contradict themselves. "im not a racist or anything but i dont trust a hindu man as far as i can throw them." That was what someone said behind me in line at maceys the other day. Is that not a contradiction? In one sentance someone completely contradicted himself. I am not asking what your personal interpretation of the bible is, im not interested. Im more interested in what the bible itself says. I am allowed my opinion, and i see the bible as being full of contradictions.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

tincobra- thank you for not name calling as the previous commentor did. you left a very respectful comment and although you disagree, i am more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

That being said, like you, i decided to read the bible for myself. Although it did not take me down the same road it took you, and although this is not something you may want to hear, im happy. Im happy that i know in my heart that what i believe feels so true to me. Im happy that you are at a place where you hold strong to your beliefs. This hub was created out of my feelings, as im sure your hubs are created out of yours. I respect your personal faith, i want no mistake made about that, its just not the faith for me. Im actually feeling a strong pull towards buddhism, but i have to look into that thoroughly. Im pretty sure it goes along with information i was given some years ago that i choose not to discuss. love be with you.


Enlydia Listener profile image

Enlydia Listener 6 years ago from trailer in the country

Dear Pink Umbrella, I would love to hear your story...if you read some of my stuff, almost all of them are true stories...and I have come to believe that truth is often stranger than fiction...some of my stories are also unbelievable...but that is life...I guess my read on you was not quite accurate...but it was just a sensing I got.

Your aunt sounds interesting...I wouldn't be surprised that her "delusions" are based on something.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Pink: "I have seen the nastiest comments come out of christians mouths. They are always the first ones to get nasty and lash out. They actually pushed me further away from belief than i was, and now im a total non believer."

Come on now pink, it's hard for me to believe that Christians are "always" the first to get ugly. I do however believe that they can get very distasteful and attack others, but don't forget to mentions their oposition does the same. I hope you don't let your emotions or the behavior of others become your basis of truth, everywhere you'll find people who discourage rather than encourage.

Pink: "I was never one to sit here and make someone question their beliefs, but when you come across someone who wont quit until they've prayed the sinners prayer with you, you start to get more than pissed"

Again, please don't let people sculpt you, because trust me, on this Earth, finding good people is like finding a needle in a haystack, and by good I don't mean just decent. If it didn't disgust me so much, I might find it humorous that some Christians play the god of God, for instance God gave people free will to choose Him or reject Him, He doesn't want people who are forced to love and worship Him and yet many Christians will try to force people to believe in God, like somehow they have something greater than God, "God you couldn't make them believe, but "I" can" ok I have to lol at that, the arrogance of man....

Pink: "But i prefer to base my utter beliefs on something true, and unless you can prove something is true to me, than you can forget me believeing in it."

Why would you need to believe in something thats proven true? That's like saying I believe the sun came up this morning and yet you can clearly see it shining. We all believe in things that aren't proven, we just decide which we need more proof for in order to believe, make sure it's for the right reason. If we believe in the God of the Bible, then we should also believe that He has an enemy (satan). I believe that satan is behind all of our doubts and questioning, but that's just my opinion. I do know however when I decided to give my life to Christ, I was on this extreme high of inspiration, I was reading the Bible (I hate reading) and my life was changing, I was preaching the good news.... then all of a sudden in my arrogance I started to hit the forums, cuz I had something no other person had and I'm gonna be able to successfully convert people (see I was one of those you can't but "I" can people). I was hit with a hard right hook that I was not ready for at all. I had come to answer the great questions, but left with questions of my own, but I didn't stop there, I searched for the answers and pondered upon them for lengths. That was a long couple years where I would fall in and out of doubt, but that experience made me stronger and helped me to see my pride is what was leading me, not bringing God glory. I am more equipped now and my defense is strong, but that was truly a moment that my life could have forked off to who knows what.

Jeff: "I've never been one of the folks who believes that the Bible is the literal truth"

"Believe or don't. It's all one to me. I wish more of us would relax about it."

"You say the Bible is full of contradictions? It totally is! (I don't understand how anyone who claims to /study/ the Bible could refuse to even acknowledge that.)"

Hmmm, believe or don't? Do you mean believe in the Bible or don't, or do you mean believe what you want about the Bible? You say your a believer, but a believer of what? If you take out of the Bible, only what is easy for you to swallow but leave the rest, then how do you know you ate the right part? Sounds kinda like you see the bible as a buffet and you pick and choose what you feel like eating. I have more respect for people like Pink who claim it's all junk rather than a person who can rummage through there and find atleast something they can believe in. That is a grave mistake so say well you can believe this, but you can't believe that, this is a book written thousands of years ago, there is no way to make sure what you believe is the truth and to discredit what you don't believe. Dig the hole, plant the seed, water it, then harvest.... you take only what you want out of that statement and you'll go hungry bud.

Hoo: "The earths environment changed and people stopped living as long as then."

Jeff (replying to hoo): "Really? I mean, /really/?"

Jeff (other comments): "Yeah, either the guys who wrote Genesis forgot to carry the one or something, or biology used to work a lot differently than it does now."

"Either we have to accept that the events in the Bible are allegorical and not literally true, or we have to imagine a world (this world, but in the past) where the current laws of science did not always work, and miracles were routine. Maybe the laws of science hadn't been finalized?"

Sorry bro I had to lol at this... You belittle Hoo when he suggested that the Earth's environment changed, which caused people not to live as long, but then you yourself suggest that biology and scientific laws may have been different then. Do you not see that as the environment changing? I would suggest that Hoo is correct in stating the environment changed, but I would be more specific into saying that disease, sin, bad habits (over eating, taking in things that feel good but are not good) continuation of making copy after copy after copy and etc. are the environmental changes that reduced life quality and length.

Now Jeff this is just an observation, but it seems you may have let pink sway you by her charming good looks. She is an atractive woman, but be careful for many men, even in the Bible, have fallen due to thier affection for others. Wise up or Pink's next hub will be about the contradictions of Jeff. :P (only kiding)

cheaptrick: "Jesus was a Jew,he was born a Jew,he lived as a Jew,he died a Jew, and he was resurrected a Jew....To bad he couldn't have waited thirty more years...He could have been a Christian!"

Not sure if this is a joke or not, but regardless I laughed at the end anyway at the complete ignorance. So it worked for you anyhow cheap. Not sure what you mean by Jew, but my understanding is that a Jew is a race of people(african, mexican, arabian etc), so obviously if Jesus was born a Jew he would of remained a Jew his entire life, therefor no need for a timeline of events in which Jesus' Jewishness is confirmed. Judaism is a beleif of some Jews, but there are also Christian Jews. So don't mix religion with race.

Cheaptrick: "Go to any Synagogue and see if you can find a Rabbi quoting the new testament."

Having a hard time folling you here cheap, wondering if you conjured up these statements from your own mind or retreived some talking points from another person. If you "READ" the Bible you'll find Jesus (leader of Christianity) was called rabbi (hebrew for teacher)and He was also found in synagogues reading scripture (Torah) and teaching the truth (New Testament). Why did he do this? Because he was the confirmation of the Torah, in fact Jesus said that God's Word (Torah) will exist even after heaven and Earch have passed away. Christians should not believe that Christ was against the Old Testament, in fact he was the completion of it. The pharisees of those days were the ones Jesus was opposing, because they had twisted the Torah and were using it for personal advancement, opression and gain. That is why the pharisees rejected Jesus. Christianity and Judaism are in agreement on a lot of issues, the one that seperates them is that Christain's believe Jesus was the Messiah, where as people of Judaism are still awaiting thier Messiah. The Jews were looking for a Messiah to save them from the Roman opression and instead Jesus shows up on the scene preaching meekness and rendering unto Ceaser that which is his, so you can imagine the uproar this caused. It would be like if President Obama started to correct the black community on thier faults instead of standing with them, oh oops he kinda did and Jesse Jackson m


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Pink: "are you saying that sins were held accountable more so then than they are now? Because that in itself is an ignorant statement. Yes, in about 2-3 sentances a person can totally contradict themselves. "im not a racist or anything but i dont trust a hindu man as far as i can throw them."

Sorry Pink, that was my bad, a lazy attempt to make my point, but as you might see from my previous comment, I'm in the novel writing mood now lol. In the comment your reffering to I said that it is ignorant to say a person contradicted themselves a few sentences apart in writing. My point is that when we write we have time to think about what were saying, whereas like the point you made, which actually affirmed my satement, people tend to let things slip off thier tongue that they didn't thoroughly think through. It is likely to contradict yourself in writing if your mind leaves the current thinking process, then later returns but while possible I would think it's highly unprobable that it would occur with so little seperation as in the example of a few sentences apart. I know for me I usually read what I write over and over before I sent it to the printer so to speak. My other point, which again I lazyily failed to clarify was that if the Bible had been altered, I would assume they could of easily picked out the "so-called" contradictions. I think alot of times that people assume that with all the technology in these times, that we're surperior and much smarter than generations of the past, but that isn't accurate at all. People created structures back then, accomplished projects of mass labor, painted pictures, etc. that baffle the "so-called" experts of today. The generation we live in only tries to find the cheapest, fastest and most effecient way to do things, because our lives have become so chaotically busy. My point here is that it's hard for me to believe, that in a time where they had no rush rush to catch the bus or to catch up with the latest celebs, that the author wouldn't have had time to make sure his writing was accurate and errorless.

As far as sins being held more accountable then, than now, I would suggest in most cases yes. Look around the U.S. and you'll see that we don't even hold the same idea of sin as the Old Testament. Whether it's the issue of homosexuality, divorce, abortion, fornication, lieing, etc, we often make some excuse for it's justification. I do not wish to argue these issues because that is a personal beleif for each individual. But from the basis of the Old Testament, there are lots of sin it recognizes that the culture of today sluffs off. The most important aspect of this point is that the degree of punishment for sin was far greater in those times. Death, Death and more Death was the punishment in alot of cases, none of this throw you in prison and we'll send room service in soon business. A decent example of what I'm reffering to is some Arab Nations that still stone women for adultery, or for instance the hanging of Saddaam Hussein, do you think any of our leaders would ever be executed for any crimes? I don't believe so for an instance, because we can't even prosecute our celebrities, let alone a leader. Without further rambling, in these days we might think twice before we break the law, in those days you thought for two days before you broke the law, for the punishment was severe. I hope I clarified myself and didn't stunned you with more mind numbing confusion lol. Hold me accountable if I did.

-Herb Gruenwald III


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Enlydia- yea, well no, my aunt is as crazy as a rabbid racoon. She had a conversation with her toaster right in front of me. I thought maybe she was being weird and talking to her reflection, but then i looked, and her toaster is gray. No reflection.

No, im not going to share my story...i really cant handle people telling me that its not true, its to personal.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

TinCobra: "I know for me I usually read what I write over and over before I sent it to the printer so to speak."

Rofl, I'm such a goober, even in the very statement above I used sent instead of send. I've also came to the conclusion that I should have looked it over once more before hitting the post button, seeing that my post have quite a few mispelled words and grammer errors.... open mouth insert foot... Nevertheless I hope people will judge my comments based of the contents or the meat of it, rather than spelling and grammer, I know it's hard to believe but even I'm not perfect. If I pursue writing any further though, those are definately qualities I need to work on.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tincobra- you have me at a loss here. On one hand i am a little pissed that you have taken what i have said and repeated it, only to disagree. On the other hand, you said that you respect me, and called me an "attractive woman." Although i dont enjoy being the sodom to anyones gamora (joke, yes i know its not correct, and blah blah) I cant say that i dont form a little smile when someone calls me attractve...i guess im still not used to it.

Also, your comment was well thought out, and well pointed. I have to say i respect your dedication. I remain firm in the fact that it is more the christian who gets frusterated with the non believer, and wont quit until they have made their point. I mean, sheesh, go on the religeous forums,,,its pretty much christians posting questions they already have an opinion on, and arguing with anyone who disagrees. I find this in real life too. But, im tired. its about midnight, and time for me to cuddle my teddy bear and go night night...so sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin cobra- you are my new "frenemie" i love to argue with you but respect you as a person and came on looking for your comment.

In the spirit of our new hate/love relationship, i have to say...are you serious? People back then built amazing structures, and i dont know, i told you im sleepy. Yea, amazing pyramids were built...but as late as the 1600's we were hanging and drowning "witches" because they used devil powers to ruin peoples crops, and if a midwife delivered a still born baby, she was accused of witchcraft and hung. People were not more intelligent because they could build things. They were spiritually scared out of their fu*king minds. Always looking for a devine excuse for happenings, not unlike worshipers of the greek gods. It is hard for me to credit people in the times of christ with being incredibly spiritually lucid, when we were haning "witches" (the real witches would never have allowed themselves to get caught, they would have been oober careful about their practice) as late as 4-5 centuries ago. Seriously, people wanted so badly to find a reason, to feed the yerning of the devine, and punish the sins of evil, that i think they might have been a little over zealous, dont you?

On a lighter note, although i think about what i say, and do read it over, i dont spell check much, as it usually causes me to change complete sentances, and i end up over trimming. When i am passionate about my words, i prefer to let the initial thoughts remain. So no worrys on spelling. Anyone who cant see through grammer and spelling, even misplaced words, is not a criticle thinker, but more of a petty twit who doesn't have a good enough argument. Keep it up, i enjoy your comments, and not in a spirit of argument, but in the spirit of actual intelligent conversation. Some of these people...well, you can see for yourself. theyd rather call me a name (ahem... as you did up there once :) ) than argue an actual point with respect and actual worthy information.

Also, i was not in a bad mood when that brotheryochanan comented...he really does give me the creeps...hes hiding something, and i dont like how it feels to read his words. even if he was in total agreement with me, i would delete his next comment. Ever get a vibe like that from someone? He's hiding his teeth.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Sleep well pink. I havn't been sleeping well either for the past couple months, I lay awake for hours feeling tired but my mind won't enter the sleep stage. I'll be up to 2-3 am when I have to get up for work at 6 30 am. I was just curious if the teddy bear was your remedy lol cuz at this point I will give it a shot.

On the issue of the Christian being the aggresor, I will compromise with you and humbly say that I've found myself in that position many times. Not sure if it's more common with Christians on forums because generally there are more Christians in this country or if its just were stubborn, I assume its a little of both. I think it also has to do with a person's personal stance on an issue. Democrats and Republicans are always at each other's throats but you generally don't hear much from independents, because they tend to be in the middle. That's kinda the way I see you, you don't seem like an athiest but more of an agnostic, that really hasn't hammered it all out yet. Which could cause you to be more passive. Water will rush to the least resistant area, so in that sense maybe people see an open area and attempt to flood it with thier beliefs.

I will say for what it's worth, that I have found myself at times being the aggressor, but it's because of the fact I truly believe that some people are headed for disaster and I desperately want to help them. I can only speak for myself though and not the intentions of other Christians, in fact I prefer the term Christ Follower because Christian has alot of baggage that comes with it, due to the faults and errors of many who claim the title.

I have a good friend that I used to debate and discuss issues of religion, creation etc. He was an athiest and so our debates normally started out civil but quickly turned to battles. He made me stronger, he forced me to answer questions that I was trying to avoid and I can only hope I did the same for him. We had numerous debates, so many I can't even count, not sure how we didn't both wind up fired, because we would often be out in the open with an audience of fellow employees being entertained by our quarreling. Seemed atleast for me that something was helping us stay hidden even though we were in the open, because with all the trafic of management, rarely did we encounter one during our talks.

I will admit I felt defeated and discouraged, not because I felt his beleif trumped mine, but because my attempts to persuade him had seemed to fall short. I don't remember exactly what it was, but for some reason on my way home from work one day I was thinking alot about him and I had this revelation, that I can't give up on him nor can I convince him with my logic, but I can love him, which is really the true theme of Christ. Unfortunately that revelation may have come too late, because it wasn't long after that, that he moved on to a differnt place of employment, in a different part of the country. But I will never forget him, he's a friend on facebook so I still hold hope that one day I'll get the chance to be a friend who ommits unconditional love.

I have had a few succesful missions so to speak, where I have helped people see things in a different light. I can only hope those seeds are watered throughout life and that a mature plant grows, but I myself have much maturing to do as well. I will leave you with that for now Pink lol sorry it's so long, but life seems too short and unreliable to be too brief at times.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

In my comment I was more reffering to the intellect of men, in the technology sense. Seems we see all the amazing technology of today's world and assume that man knows everything and yet they can't comprehend some of the creations of generations long ago. Good point in bringing up the witch killings... although I think it will turn to lean in my favor more than yours :P. Many people will bring up the witch killings and even the killings of other religious groups and they are right to do so. But I think most of us miss the point, Jesus never commanded the anhilation of religions, that was man who decided that. In fact Jesus said "I come for the sick, not for those who think thier healthy" in this statement He is referring to the pharisses who took religion to a whole new level of opression, they thought they were the healthy people, who knew all and who were flawless. Jesus is saying I came for people who know they have sinned, they are separated from God and want to make omends. Like the pharisees some Christians have maniuplated the religion and used it to fullfill thier own agendas. How bout this church out of Kansas that protest soldiers funerals with signs about God hating gays? They may not have physical blood on thier hands but thier definately guilty of causing more people grief an do more to tear apart the Kingdom of God than build it.

Let's say you became an editor and publisher of your own magazine. You hire some writers who you think are qualified and put them to work. Your on vacation and you leave the editorial position to another person. When you return to work the magazine is published and on the shelves allready and your name and magazine are making the breaking news headlines because your temporary editor didn't do the job you required of them and instead adopted thier own philosophy and realeased all sorts of racist, bigot, hateful, etc. articles through your magazine. Your wondering why in the world it's you picture all over cable and local news shows and not this temp editor, for they are the one who okay'd all this trash. Now how would you feel? knowing the world has a different view of..... Pink (since I don't know your name) than your true self. Oh and good luck trying to erase that view from thier minds.

So what's my point, Jesus is the leader of Christianity, and some people that have joined his cause have not upheld thier responsibility, so please place the blame where blame is due, blame man for thier errors. If Jesus had said go out and kill witches, Jews, Muslims, abortion doctors etc then I could understand the blame being placed on him.

Men claim to humble themselves under God, but then attempt to take upon His duties. They will tell man where they're going when they die (eternally), they will spout out all sorts of ignorance, Christians as well as all othere forms of belief. I can only speak for Christains and say that our god commands us to leave eternal judgment to Him and Him alone. One of my favorite verses is "before you try to remove the speck from your friends eye, first remove the log from your own so you can see better to help your friend"

As far as the wierd vibe, ya I know what your talking about. I think we do ourselves good to listen to our judgment, but we need further information to confirm it.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin Cobra- this is how tired i am. i tried to backspace, but kept hitting delete wondering what the heck was wrong with my computer. ugh. No, the teddy bear is not my method. unfortunately my son is part owl and thinks that 4am is aleep time, and 1pm is wakeup time. ugh.

my method as of late has been my mp3 player...yea, no ipod, i actually just got my first music player that doesnt require a c.d. Im no mrs. technology.

i downloaded 2 audio books. One stephen king short story book...not recomended for tranquility...and one "neverwhere" by neil gaimen. The guy reading is english with a soft deep voice. it works for falling asleep after the baby crashes, as i am usually too keyed up from chaseing him around. He is so full of energy and too smart for his own good. try to hide your drink from him..just try! no matter where i put my soda can, he can sniff it out. (he likes to take my straw out and chew on it, lol)

I know i might seem the agressor in this hub, but i assure you it is in defense to several recent arguments on the forums. Also, i had a problem with a few hubbers who shal remain nameless that were trying to get me snuffed out of hubpages.

Anyway, i really have to go to sleep now. i got side tracked talking to my boyfriend while i was writing this, and i dont know if i made a point or not, or even if it exactly pertained to what you wrote...but im exhausted. hes leaving for a month next week, and this is the last wekk i have to give the baby over when im tired, im taking all the rest i can get!


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

lol, I know what your talking about, have 3 children of my own. I'm off to bed myself, it was certianly nice to meet you and a person who doesn't run from the sight or sound of the word God. Had fun, and although Jesus has commanded us to forgive... I'm having a hard time forgiving you for keeping me in anticipation for your reply... I think I broke the refresh button.. lol. J/K about the whole non forgiving part, I assume you knew that but you never know about others who might read. I wish your boyfriend a safe trip and I hope the constant chasing your son around doesn't wear you out. Good night my friend.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

I love this, its like a chess game. but in a good way:) What im saying is, that if we had the mind so recently in history (relatively recntly) to put all of our damnation and salvation on oogie boggies and pixies, than couldnt that have been how it happened in biblical times? So someone says they wittnessed jesus walking on water. That could have been a way to make someone who brought so much hope seem so much more than they actually were. Just as when things went wrong in Salem, people, being their naturally flawed self, placed witchcraft as an explination. I was in no way making a christian example, but a human example when it came to salem. People who knew that there was no way mary roberts flew into someones window and cursed them, still were satisfied in claimimg wittness to it, because it gave a reason however false that reason was.

Im hopeing that your getting what im saying as i have told you i can hardly keep my eyes open, but am very much enjoying our conversation.

my comment does not rulein your favor, it rules in mine as to the nature of man to give reason even if that reason is a stretch, a lie, or an assumption. That is, when there is no real reason tangable.

I do however totaly get your example of trusting others to take over when you take leave. It makes complete sense to me, which actually tips in my favor ( ha ha!)

People are flawed, and the bible is naturally flawed and full of contradictions. That does not make it entirely false, how the hell could i possibly know that...I wasnt there, as you werent. My problem is not with the idea of God...my problem is the representation of event that occured, and that possibly there is so much written that was more the man than the intervention of the devine.

Hope im makeing sense here, ill probcome on tommorow and have to rethink my thoughts. Its not passion thats driving me at the moment, but the drive i have to leave no comment un touched. Goodnoght TinCobra...maybe you can tell me why the name? Tin cobra isnt something that should come without explination...its different to say the least! In the spirit of chess...check!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin- about your last comment, the feeling is mutual, haha. Run from the word God? No, i have questions, and disagreements, not fear of conversation!

Im laughing at your waiting for my comments as i myself have at times obsessively refreshed waiting for a reply, and was caught in a conversation mid comment back to you, and kept thinking of things to say, but couldnt get away! I guess were like the jewish rabbai and the catholic priest who are best friends...agree to disagree with maybe some interesting and possibly enlightening conversation. Although i am not a christian, and your right, not an atheist, i do try to be as good a person as i can. I try not to hurt others feelings, I try to help others even when im in desperate times myself, i give everyone at least one fair shot, am way too forgiving, and share more than i am rightfully able too most times. My thing is, if im wrong and there is a heaven, people should get in for doing good because they have a heart to just be a good person. I have my flaws, but i try to live with a loving heart. I cant help it most of the time.

Now maybe you can tell me why you had more than one child...oy vey! I cant imagine doing this more than once...although my little boy (18 months) showed me that iwhat i thought love was before he was in my belly, was not even close. I have to admit, i think it took me a few days after he was born to re-bond with him, but the way he makes my heart swell up, i mean, i looked at him a few months ago, and he was laughing, and smiling with his whole face, and i just teared up. i never thought i was the mom type. Well anyway, here i am being that mom that rambles on about her kid...lol.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

The name TinCobra is a gamer tag of mine. I am.. or I guess rather was, a Mustang fanatic. One day at work, while in my teens, I was trying to fabricate a cool name. Being a Ford Mustang freak I had to have something to do with the car in my name. The thought behind it was ten second cobra, but wanted to make it mysterious so I decided to turn it into a metallic snake lol.

As for 3 kids.... hmmm not sure.. I kept calling in and complaining that everytime fed ex delivers I have another mouth to feed in 9 months, but they didn't seem to get the connection... nah I shouldn't say that lol

To be honest it was more of a neglegence thing, I always wanted to have kids, but I was never ready for the first one, then told myself no more, then came the second, told myself, for real this is it, and here we are with the third who is just over a year old. I didn't really do anything to prevent it, but now wouldn't do anything to change it.

To make a quick point about how we can know Jesus did and said the thing the Bible states. In reality we can't know for sure, God is in the business of faith, but I do believe logic can lend us a hand to make a resonable conjecture. The "Old Testament" prophesied about very specific events and qualities that would take place in and around the Messiah and Jesus fulfilled all those, except for one that many believe will be fulfilled when Christ returns. Now you have a choice we can continue to say that someone altered the story of Christ are the prophesies, or we can assume that they are true. Second way we can use logic, many of Jesus' disciples and followers were killed through stoning, crucifiction and quartering, in fact Peter asked to be crucified upside down, for he was not worthy to die like his master. If we assume that the disciples and followers of Christ witnessed the true life, death and ressurection of Jesus, then it would make sense that they believed so much that they would die horrible deaths for what they believe. But if they made up the story, or seen Jesus just die and that was it, no ressurection, I believe it would be safe to say that would of come clean rather than face the gruesome fate so many of them did. The deaths of the disciples and followers are not recorded in books of the Bible, rather other forms of writing, so it's kind of nice to see other writings validate the Bible, but yet again people can say well how do you know the writings aren't fabricated... Quick point, some Islamist Jihadist strap bombs to themselves and blow people up for the sake of what they believe, but the differnce between them and Jesus' followers is that Jihadist do it out of complete faith, but Jesus' followers would of had to say, "you know, we made this whole thing up, but I'm willing to die for it because just think 2000 years from now Tin and pink are gonna be talking about it on hubpages.com, we'll be famous"

Third and final point of the evening: If Jesus was fictional or just an ordinary guy, why did he inspire so many people to lead a revolution and a movement of such great magnitude? Jesus claimed he wanted the Good News to be preached unto the ends of the Earth, and if he were fake or just a crazy dude, He sure made one heck of a prediction.

As far as people being good enough for heaven, I believe that good is absolute. Sure in our culture it means something different, but for me something good means without bad. A shirt with just a small stain is no longer good, a glass of water with just a drop of sewage in it, is no longer good. So while man can be decent, we still have to have a solution to the little bad that we do and for me that's the blood of Jesus. I would think that God being absolute good could not dwell with anything less, hence why the Bible states Lucifer was cast out of heaven. I will not and refuse to say whether or not a person will go to heaven or not, that is up to God and He alone. Only He knows the heart of man.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

It is a truely obediant follower who does not guess the final decision of his master. if only more would heed your example.


sanjan 6 years ago

pink u r pretty :D


Jenna~Sea 6 years ago

Right on sister !!!! tell it how it is ! sorry i'm late to the party, I just got done reading all of that info you posted as well as other people's comment's . WOW some people react so strong, i think it might be because they are not ready to or able to handle change. frist of all i have to start by saying I belive that my faith is strong enough to question the bible!! yes indeed their are many contradictions ,my husband is reading the book front to back, he is about half way through and he to said the same things as you. I did a bit of research on the subject ; first off, I to heard this lilith story so i looked into it,what got from it was that there was atleast 3 eve's ??? the only thing in the bible that refers to this is;[1SAM.25:34;1KINGS14:10;21:21] also lilith is mentioned in Isa.34:14 though the KJV renders lilith as "screech owl" other biblical referances: Isaiah 34:14 "night hag" ( NIV translates it as "terror by night".more info on lilith go to (http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith .as for the word "GOD" I could only date back to about the 11th century when the jewish bible was written the title was "the word of God" If you read the definition of the 'Word' "GOD" you will find no biblical connection??? a bit strange ?? one more thing i found is that the bible came from the greek version of the biblioses,dating back to the year 382, and it was written as a peace treaty between to ruler's one had his spiritual adviser write the book in order to keep peace between the people ?? that is as far as I've gotten on that subject, but in time I'll know more. so have blind faith if you must but i recommend that anyone looking for the truth better be ready to do a shit load of reading! I think it is pretty cool of pink unbrella to be brave enough to speak her mind,and as for you other people so quick to judge,remember when you found out santa or the tooth fariy was not real ?? it is okay to belive in something infact it is needed,but we don't need to throw stones at others in order to keep are own faith alive ...ps. pinkunbrella i would love to be a follower of yours ! will you be one of mine ?? i could use some pointers on how to create my hub's .


temiprice profile image

temiprice 6 years ago

Hi Pink Umbrella,

You sure know how to get a discussion going! I'd like to add my two cents, if I may.

First off, I'm coming from the perspective of a Christian who's pretty much in Jeff Berndt's camp. I believe the Bible is inspired by God, but not that it has to be taken literally, and certainly not that it contains no inconsistencies.

I just wanted to add a few thoughts on why Christians lash out so. Many feel incredibly threatened by the idea that the Bible might contain errors. To be honest, this isn't something I can usually ever talk about with most fellow Christians; they would lash out at me too.

I think there are two reasons for this. First, for some reason, the Bible has been elevated to god-like status in many churches. It's not something people say...but they treat it as such. Of course, no one prays to it or anything, but they still think of what it says as God's only way of speaking to them. They judge their own righteousness and that of others by how well they know, and beleive the Bible's words. It is a terrible irony, but for some people, the Bible seems in that respect to have become an idol.

You can see this in the way they will keep quoting the Bible long after you have told them that you don't believe it. They don't believe they need to develop reasoned arguments, but instead believe words from the Bible have power in and of themselves to convert you to their way of thinking.

I know many people who have become Christians as a result of reading the Bible and finding truth there. But truly, our faith is not dependent on any sacred text, our faith is in God.

The second reason Christians are so threatened is that once you question the truth of any portion of a sacred text, you have to question the whole thing. If the story about Jesus walking on water is wrong, then you have to admit the possibility that so was the story of the resurrection. And if the story of the resurrection is wrong, we, as Christian, are devoting our lives to a lie. In which case, we're screwed. So there is a lot at stake here.

It's just easier to believe the whole thing, than to try and examine every portion and decide if it is true. Again, no one ever talks about this...but I think they feel it strongly on a subconscious level because a BIG WALL jumps up whenever the Bible is questioned.

Anyway, thanks for the great hub. Sorry if you've been attacked. You seem like the kind of person who can empathize with others, which is why I wanted to explain a little. It's no excuse really. Any Christian who attacks unkindly, isn't doing what the Bible says or accurately representing God's heart.

Have a blessed day.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Sanjan- ...thank you. I didnt uesd to let myself be pretty, or even complimented. I spent a big part of my life being fat. When you are five feet tall, and weigh almost 200 pounds, no one thinks your pretty. When i was around 17 years old, my weight started to go down. it would go up again, and down again, i was on a rollar coaster. Then, all of a sudden, i started toreally lose weight, how? I have no idea. I just did. Two days before i became pregnant wiht my son, i put on my first bikini ever, marvled at the fact that i didnt have any sagging skin. I thought it must be a mericle. And then, i found out i was pregnant. I thought, here we go, im going to get fat again. I was 114 pounds, and blew up to 165 by my 9th month of pregnancy. After the baby, I did absolutely nothing to get "back to being skinny" because i thought "whats the use?" Well, i waited. I got down to 135 pounds because my stomach is funny, and i really started no teating much. Its not an eating disorder, i literally feel like crap if i dont eat, and then i eat, and i get all bloated. Im pretty sure i have irritable bowel, or chrones or something. I dont know. But after 18 months, i am back down to 114. I have a saggy skin mom belly, but its not as bad as some womens, and actually if i would get my ass in gear, i could crunch it away. But i dont, because im a runner...not a cruncher. (i became a runner after the weight loss, it did not contribute).

Im not someone who diggs for compliments, and im not someone who hates them. Im someone that feels good about her body finally, and when i recieve a compliment, i literally breath it in and let myself feel good about it. But, im still not used to it.

Thank you for telling me im pretty. I know this is sort of a long comment for such a simple compliment, but your on hubpages baby, and im a writer, lol.

thank you.-pink


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Jenna- sing it sister! Thank you so much for the information you provided. 3 Eves?! I though it funny that i had never heard of a second eve! now im curious! Now im not upset about the bible, im upset about men...even the first man on earth was a player! lol, just kidding.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

To Jenna and temiprice:

I wonder Jenna, do you scrutinize and inspect (study) the resources where you obtain your information from as critically as you do the Bible? Do you question the work of so called scholars or other peoples research as in depth as you seem to question the Bible? I would assume not, because then your whole life would be consumed with researching research that basically by the end of it you'll never find your answer, instead find insanity. The Bible takes faith to believe in while offering some intelectual facts that can keep our mind at ease. We observe the historical events in the Bible and we see that scholors and archeologist confirm the Bible's statements, so we then are led to believe that the other things said are safe to put our faith in. If you believe the Bible is the Word of God, then you can not study the Bible verse by verse, you must study it in whole from Genesis to Revelation, be careful in pulling out of context. You also shouldn't assume that people of this generation can completely comprehend an author's intent. Santa claus is a figure of our culture, but if thousands of years from now, someone were to obtain writings of today, they may come to the conclusion that we believed in Santa Claus, where as it's the spirit of a factual man that we keep alive thru a fictional character. So did the author's actualy believe in this lilith or were they just relating to thier audience in a way they would understand? Lilith, even if she were a fictional character, could resemble the the spirit of factual events, such as the slaughter of infants. But who really knows right? were suppose to use our judement, common sense and most of all, God sent wisdom when reading the Bible. In my opninon they understood lilith as a representation an idea, rather than an actual person, becuase the Bible continues to suggest that Adam and Eve were the first humans. God is a name, not a word, so don't dig too deep into that because many people have different names for God or thier own personal god. Yahweh is a common name of God in Judiasm, Allah (muslim,islam), God is even called the "I Am" in the Bible and other people have different names too, like brotheryochanan up there, refers to God as the voice.

As to you temperice, I will reiterate my previous point, if "you" choose to define what "you" can believe in the Bible and what "you" can't, then how can you be sure your right? If I were to write a story about my life in which I revealed contradictions in my story, what might a person call me? Let's be honest here, contradiction is the descriptive term, but the specific term is liar. If in one part I say I graduated from this high school, but then say I graduated from another high school, I would be a liar, not just a guy who has some contradictions. So on that sense if the Bible is a lie (full of contradictions) then how can it be held as any substance of truth. Sure some people say there is truth hidden in every lie, which I would aggree with but not 100%, but the problem is, how do you sift through the lies and truths of a story that was written so long ago?

It's impossible, so if a person were to continue down this street that "I" take out of the Bible what "I" can believe, then I think they'll find themselves at the destination of creating thier own religion. Now as for me, there are things in the Bible I don't completely understand, but I have yet to find any lies in the Bible. So I continue through my life and continue to grow in faith, and praying for wisdom, and some of those things I did not understand before, God has revealed to me and I assume He will continue to do so. But at the first sign of my ignorance, if I were to jump on Google and start pulling verse's out of context and researching what so-called scholars believe, then I do myself more harm than good. We have to look past our arrogance, that somehow when it comes to God or the Bible we have to know every little aspect and detail before we can put our faith in it as a whole, and yet we'll rush to spread gossip or believe it whether it's about family, friend, poloticians or celebrities, before we even get the facts.

As for the Bible being easier to believe as a whole rather than deciding each portion as truth, I would completely disagree. It would be like buying a swingset for a child without puting it together. Which is easier, giving it to the child in pieces or figuring out where each part goes and how it all connects? In your sense you give the child a unfished and possibly dangerous swing set, because you couldn't see any use for a certain part. Therefor it takes more work to read through the Bible and figure out the context of it as a whole and figure out where all the pieces fit, rather than pick out whats easy to chew and leave the rest.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I didn't read all the comments, nor will I waste time trying to convince someone of biblical truth when it's obvious you don't want it.

First of all, you don't use scripture references in your hub to make it remotely credible. Secondly, Lilleth is NOT mentioned in the Bible, so it also isn't credible in your argument that the 'Bible' contradicts 'itself'. Extra-biblical material can certainly contradict the Bible. Everyone knows that.

At least understand 1 Sam 17:51, since you keep going back to it with HOO and neither of you has stated what's being MISSED: "Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled." David took the sword of Goliath out of Goliath's sheath. So ~ David killed Goliath with a stone (without a sword), then went over and took Goliath's sword from Goliath's sheath and cut off Goliath's head. When you read "he/his", you are attributing it to David when you need to attribute it to Goliath. Clear enough? OK. Bye...


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin- i will refrain from commenting, as your comment was to others, and not to me. now everyone, group hug!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Judah's daughter...its in there. But im not going to spoon feed it to you. Blow the dust off of your bible, and read. Youll be better for the experience. But your right, i dont want your inane blah blah shoved down my throat.

Your so cocky, but as most silly overzealous christians, your missing alot of what you read. I listed the scripture above, read it again. David "slew" (mans to kill) goliath with a stone, and then he "slew" (killed) goliath with his sword.

Cear enough for you? you cocky bastard. Im not going to hold your hand and explain the bible to you when its very apparent that you are holding your ears and stamping on the ground like my son in toys r us. What arent you getting about the fact that davind "kills" goliath twice? It may be a mistake in that he only killed him once, or the story may be a complete falsehood. Im not saying it never happened, because i wasnt there...im pretty sure i had and errand or two to run that day. But if you caught it on your iphone, let me know, id be more than happy to take a look. If not, were just going to have to go on the written word, and the word kill, was written twice. Sorry sweetie, i was bummed when i saw my dad eating santa's cookies too.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

The rate you're going you'll face "two deaths" yourself. Figure that one out.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Dave barnett- when my son was born, and i woke up from the anesthesia, he was handed to me. I looked at his face, and said "i can see god." This was not the anesthesia talking, well, it may have been, but what im saying, if you get nothig else out of my hubs, is that life is a mericle, and i hope with everything that i am that there is a place for all of us after this world, and that someone is touching this world with a gentle hand when we need it the most. It just dosnt seem to me that the bible is the road map leading to the true devine. Im sorry, but i dont accept it. Its just too flawed, and has never made me feel a tenth of the power i feel oozing from the life force that my baby holds.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Judas daughter- and when the christian had nothing else to say...there was always "your going to hell." hahahahahahahahaha. Dont you judge my damnation, i have 300 bucks to last me for the next month, and i paid an elderly mans prescription at walgreens, because he was crying and said he had no idea it would cost that much. When was the last time you did something good for someone else because it made you feel good, instead of hopeing god was writing it down. And, im pretty sure that you felt good writing that to me, that i will face two deaths. What kind of person, let alone christian are you to delight in anothers possible "burning in hell for all eaternity?" really, you are satisfied that i might be writhing in agony forever? Because if thats what you become when you give your heart to jesus, id rather keep mine thank you. your a real piece of work, do you know that? Wow, i have never taken comfort in the suffering of another. So wont it be funny if there is a heaven, and that you get in based on your kindness and generosity, and giving of yourself when you have but little to survive yourself...and not just based on the fact that you have nice shoes to go with your sunday best?


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hey everyone else...judas daughter is the kind of person here on hubpages that has pushed me even further away from the bible...thanx for being a true example, judah...:)


royalblkrose profile image

royalblkrose 6 years ago from florida

I can't answer all of your questions... pink umbrella... I hope to shed some light on a couple of issues...

first.. the gospels are written by four different people, hence you have FOUR different points of view and modes of speech (ever get a story from four of your friends?)

second, the genealogical question... the gospel of Matthew is for Joseph, the gospel of Luke is for Mary, according to prophesy, Jesus was to come from the Line of David, the old testament king... and the different genealogies prove out that prophesy from His earthly father's line, as well as His mother's. and about Goliath's head.... that was a trophy! proof the stone that killed him did the job and that Goliath just wasn't knocked out in a stupor! (heads were take as trophies back then...)


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Mat 6:2 Jesus said, "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."


temiprice profile image

temiprice 6 years ago

To TinCobra:

You illustrate my point. I can't be sure I'm right if I have to discern what is true in the Bible and what is not. That is precisely why I said it is much easier to believe there are no errors in it. I'm not trying to start my own religion. I'm just trying to please God.

Let me be clear. I love the Bible. I believe it was inspired by God. I have been reading it cover to cover for over thirty years and am currently memorizing the gospel of Matthew. I would be DELIGHTED if I could believe it contained no errors.

If you can in your mind reconcile things like the story of the Gaderine demoniac - where in one account there is ONE demoniac and in another account there are TWO demoniacs then do so. If you can't, does that make the whole book a lie? You seem to imply it does. I don't agree.

The gospels have differing accounts of the same events. The fact that they differ does not test my faith in the events they describe. The same would be true if you found three people who witnessed the Kennedy assissination. But if you put a book together with several witness' accounts, and you told me that in order to be a true believer in the Kennedy assissination I had to believe EVERYTHING in the book even though one person said Jackie was wearing green and another said she was wearing purple. Well, I'd be stuck. You just put a stumbling block in front of my faith in the Kennedy assissination.

Can't you see that is exactly what you are doing here?

Pink - don't take this the wrong way, I'm a happily married heterosexual woman..But sanjan's right. You are pretty! And I love your witty comments even when I don't agree with your views.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

royalblkrose- youve said nothing to me that we have not already covered.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Judah's daughter- i was using that as an example, not to impress you. The bible also says to prey in your closet...how many times have you made a show of your faith. Dont answer that, i dont need you too. You are not god, nor are you one of his henchmen. Never, and i repeat never tell someone they are going to hell. You have no idea where anyone is going. Or if there is anywhere to go, in my opinion. Oh im sorry, did you not hear that last part? MY OPINION. Your no longer here to shed light, or make a point, your comments have become very "nanny nanny poo poo" I giggle at your childish ways, you truely are a light of god. (that was sarcasm)


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

By the way juda's daughter, high five for being a monster who wishes pain on others...your a real people person. Try not to annoy anyone sitting next to you with your self righteous b.s.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

I'm sorry temiprice, I don't mean to sound rude here, but trying to understand what your saying is more frusterating than completing an arubix cube.

In your first comment you said it is easier to believe the Bible as a whole, rather than examine every portion to see if its true and now you say it's easier to believe there are no errors in the Bible. Those are two different points, which now you claim are the same. I was under the impression in your first comment you were talking specificaly about what is true and what is a lie which by no means is an error, but more of an intenional deciet. Error is a very broad statement, grammer, spelling, punctuation, misplaced words etc. Now is believing the bible is errorless easy to say? Well that depends, has a person came to that conclusion based off facts or based of "well I prefer to say its errorless, rather than actually find out if it is" because if a person says the Bible is errorless, based off facts, that means they had to search the whole Bible to make sure thier statement was factual, but for a person to say yes the Bible has a or multiple errors, they only have to find what they believed to be an error in just one part of the Bible to make that statment. So again it would be more work to say the Bible is errorless, than to say it is in error.

Now as far as the demon possesed man, not sure why people use fancy words to describe things, when most normal people say Huh? Any how, Mark and Luke record the same exact story with very specific details that pertain to area and how they arrived and etc. And Matthew does the same thing, he get's the place right, how they arrived there, and even that it's a demon possesion, only difference is he mentions 2 people. This isn't that big of a deal, when you consider multiple people wrote about the same story, now had the same author said there was only one, then later he claimed two, that would be a contradiction. But seeing as it came from multiple authors, it's more of a point of perception than a contradiction. Again all 3 author's record the same very specific details, now why 2 only talked about the 1 demone possesed man and matthew wrote about both, we'll never know. This actually compliments the idea that the Bible was written from witnesses, and not conjured up in a room, because then they could just "copy and paste" thier stories. Come on we let ploiticians get away with saying they mispoke and yet we can't allow Mark and Luke to highlight the one man they thought was more important to the intent of thier gospel.

Even in the trail of my father's murder, stuff like this happened. People said that Kenny (accused murderer of my father) hit my dad in the back of the head when he was sitting on a bar stool, they even said they seen him walk to the back door and grab the board that was bracing it shut. But when the actual trial came, it went more like this; We heard a loud bang, which sounded like a gun going off, we turned to see what it was and we seen Herb (my dad) on the floor bleeding and kenny holding a board. This loose testament was enough to dismiss kenny and close the case. So you see people claimed Kenny struck my father in the head, but they based if of thier judgement, the court over rode thier judgement and claimed, well since you didn't actually see him do it, you can't assume he did. Not to mention that as things unfolded we found there were actually more witnesses that previously mentioned. One thing you have to remember is that the author's wrote about the events awhile after they happened, so it goes based of memory. We can debate meaningless words for lengths, but the main thing here is whether or not there were 1 or 2 demon possesed men, changes nothing on the account of Christ Birth, death and ressurection. So basically when we get down to it, were really battling over the fact of whether Adam had a belly button or not... Interesting to know, but doesn't do us any good.

Good job in your endevor to read the Bible over and over and over and over. I hope that one day me and you both can learn to live it out, rather than believe we are pleasing God by reading his word, rather than follwing it. I do understand you have to know what it says before you can follow it, but I believe that we fall under the same category as the author's of the new testament, they didnt read something over and over and over to understand Jesus, no instead they walked with him and spent time with him, we can't do that with the physical Christ but can sure do it with His Spirit that resides in us, believe it or not God revealed things to me before I read them for myself, the Bible was more of affirmation to me that what I thought was God telling me something, actually was.


temiprice profile image

temiprice 6 years ago

I'm sorry, Tin Cobra, if I'm not communicating my point well. Because I knew what I was trying to say, I didn't see how confusing it could be. I think the problem lies in my use of the phrase "It's easier to believe." When I've used that phrase above, I didn't mean that I thought what it was referencing is TRUE. Just that it is easier, less work, to believe in a Bible without errors.

Example: If I knew my weather man is always right I could dress in the morning with complete confidence. But I know the weatherman is sometimes wrong. So, I use him as a guide, but I also look out the window to see whether it's clouding over. That is a much more accurate method for planning my day, but it's also a lot more work.

Now that's a terrible example - because the Bible is way more reliable than a weather man, but I do see inconsistencies in it, whether due to human error, difference in perspective, I don't know.

Some people feel incredibly threatened by that view. They need to believe that every word in the Bible is absolutely true.

I agree that the inconsistencies actually support the overall truth that these are real events people witnessed and related. And I agree with everything in your last paragragh. I, too, knew God before reading the Bible. And I, too, found that the Bible is the only holy book that my spirit accepts as the truth about God. I have read some of the "lost books of the bible" that mention weird things like the three Eves. LOL. There was a lot written in the first thousand years after Jesus - I think the church did a good job of gathering what was inspired and leaving out the rest.

So, I hope that clarifies my thoughts a little bit. I was not trying to start an argument - just trying to explain why some people lash out the way they do. Sorry if I mucked it up.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin- come on, temiprice isnt here to argue, and seems very sweet...let it go!


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Temi we'll just have agree to disagreee as they say, on this issue. For me I can't believe in something I think is inconsistent and on the other hand I don't just say well I'm gonna just believe there are no questions to be brought up in the Bible, No! instead I seek the answer to the questions in the best way I can, I seek truth, I ponder for lengths about the intent, so for me it isn't easy to say the Bible is errorless, for it took a long time and alot of searching before I came to that conclusion.

I'm glad you brought up the weather man issue. This is the very reason I can't trust inconsistency, I do not put my faith in men who can look at the same radar and come up with different conclusions. These people are experts right? They all went to colledge and learned the same information, and yet when they look at something they each have a different view of what they see. So it isn't the information that's flawed it's the man and how they interpret it. I loved science growing up and always dreamed to become a scientist but in the field of science there are too many arrogant goons who thing that somehow they can glance through time, whether in the past or present, and tell you how things were or will be, and yet another scientist can look at the same bit of information and come to a different conclusion. The information isn't the issue but the interpreter is. Scientist studies are based of consistent principles but yet some believe in an inconsistent philosophy. Example: "well if this happens so many times over and over then it must be, but if later on down the road we find out that in fact our first conclusion was in error, then we'll change it to reflect our current conclusion, then if even later on down the road we find our second conclusion was in error, then we'll change it" and so on and so on, it never ends. While it is smart to change your view of something once you find out more information, it is not smart to put your faith in something that is so inconsistent. For instance, people used to think the Earth was flat, we now indeed know its round, so we would be dumb to continue to believe its flat. So is Science something to put your faith in? I would say NO because it always changes. Let's take microscopic organism's for example, scientist never even knew these things existed because it didnt follow their method of study (sight,see,taste,feel,hear), but in the late 1600's to early 1700's (if I'm remembering the dates correctly) the birth of the microscope helped man to see things that they couldn't with thier own eyes. So they had to go back and change everything they knew and believed to reflect thier new found information. The theory of evolution is always changing, but what if one day science say's you know what we found some information that tell's us evolution is impossible, what if one day someone develops a instrument that allows us to see God with our own eyes what then? So we can't put or faith in inconsistency, but yet so many people do. Life for instance, it is inconsistent, "well I'll get to know God, if there is one, later on in life" but then that life is taken from us and we never got that chance. People will plan out thier lives in great detail and yet why? For life is inconsistent, it is here one day then gone another, instead put your faith in something that doesn't change; scripture. Interpretations might change, but the words never do, that's why I warn about the man behind the pulpit.. can you trust his/her intent? I'm by no means Anti-Church, I just got home from Church actually, but I know there are alot of Churchs' sending the wrong message out into the world.

How can we say the Bible is inconsistent then say it's something to put our faith in? Going back to the demon posession, if we say the author's contradict each other, then were implying someone is lying or doesn't know what thier talking about. So then what about stories that only one author wrote about? How can we assume that's factual, because here we have a book that we allready accused of being in contradiction? What if Jesus actually said I am a way, I am a truth, I am a life? A little error such as replacing "a" with "the" changes the entire meaning. So you open a whole big can of worms assumng that the Bible is in error. How can we be sure that Jesus said He is "the" and not "a" because we look at the entire picture and see where Jesus constantly shows us that He is God.

So inconsistent (contradicted) message (Bible) or inconsistent men/women, who read something in an inconsistent time with an inconsistent view of the world than with the content they read? Take a look at just this comment section. I'm a person that rambles on and rambles on, because something in me says that I can't leave anything out, I got to hit every detail, whether it matters or not, whether it's important to my message or not, and even still I leave things out. But yet some people, they get straight to the point, they keep it nice and short, and leave little distraction from thier main point. Wow you mean people can actually have the same information, but deliver it thier own way and still be acurate? Yes assuming the information is accurate. So is it that Mark and Luke were saying there was only 1 man, or was that one man the main importance to the message they were trying to send? Maybe it's matthew that my writing style tends to follow, and he had to make sure he was very detailed in his account, for he even mentioned the storm they faced on the ride over to the area where the demon possesed man was. So if we take that in account, how many demon possesed men were there? Atleast 2 because that is the information the witnesses gave to us, they may have told the story thier own way, but that doesn't change the truth of it. See even I have dragged this out, gotten side tracked and not sure I've even hit some of my original points, thoughts and emotions. Here is something we can agree on, that we are united as brother's and sister's in Christ, and I hope my pride to stress my point doesn't cause you to stumble my dear sister. I'm passionate abut God and His word, but I wish I was more actively involved, but that's the weight of this flesh. For it's always in contradiction to my soul, it's desires are inconsistent with my soul and even the flesh and soul have inconsistent destinations.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Btw I agree pink she seems sweet, but whether or not she came to argue.... I would assume if you don't want to make a wish you keep your two cents in your pocket :P

Argue isn't a bad thing though, can be, if we allow it to. I think I shall take your advice though and let it go.... well.. I can't make any promises lol sorry my ego at times is uncontrolable, please forgive me guys.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

:) no ones blameing you for defending your belief, lol. after all, thats what were all doing, right?


temiprice profile image

temiprice 6 years ago

TinCobra - It's obvious we share the same Master and I appreciate your ability to make your points in what is very clearly a spirit of love. I especially like your comments about science and wish you were there to get my back in some very heated discussions in the comments section of some evolution hubs. LOL.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. I will say that many, many people I love and respect share your views. So, it is entirely possible I am wrong in this. But I can't pretend to believe something I don't.

I think you can see a big part of my point,though, that to someone outside the faith, who does not already believe in the authority of scripture - someone like Pink - that things like this appear to be contradictions. And to attack her for intellectual honesty is not something God would find pleasing.

You, obviously, have not done that. I hope my comments did not suggest that I thought otherwise.

P.S. - Having read through the comments, I have a suggestion for sleep problems. Memorize scripture. Pink, this might work with poetry or something else as well. I don't know. Anyway, TinCobra, since you love the Bible, you can memorize a section. I'd suggest starting with something like Matthew 5, then start repeating it to yourself as you fall asleep. If you can't fall asleep, you are still accomplishing something profitable. But you might be surprised how quickly you drop off once you start doing this.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

temiprice- good girl...never force yourself to believe anything you dont feel truely at peace with, even if it is a slight discrepency. You'll both get into heave by your guys standards right? So really, whats the conflict. :) love both you guys, it was nice talking with each of you. i am richer for the experience.


TinCobra profile image

TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Yes Pink, a person should never force themselves to believe anything, that kinda defeats the purpose, on the other hand we shouldn't force ourselves not to believe in something. Sometimes it's harder to believe in things for certain people. Like Thomas who doubted Jesus' ressurectoin, until he seen the wounds and Jesus face to face, in which Jesus replied blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. Basiclly what Jesus is saying here is if you need so much proof, evidence or information to believe, then really it's not faith. Instead of relying on God and putting our trust in Him when we're lost, or when our vision is impared by the fog or obstacles, we instead put trust in ourselves and our own wisdom.

Yes again pink, geez kinda hard to say your right.... j/k. If our standard is the fact that we are broken (sinful) and have no way to fix our brokeness (sinfulness), and we rely on Jesus' sacrifice for our redemption, then yes we both shall have eternal life.

I've enjoyed talking with you guys as well. I love discussions, because usually we all walk away learning a little something about one another. I will try the memorization technique temi, I'll keep you updated. Though It seems my problem is my mind won't focus, I sometimes stare at one spot for a long time, which used to work, but I find soon as my eyes grow heavy my mind starts generating thoughts. I might have to pick a scripture w/o any real content or meat, like maybe "Jesus wept" lol otherwise while I'm repeating it over and over I may start overanalyzing it.

Temi I used to debate evolutionist's in forums. It's tough to do, because they normally throw out a bunch of big words and mumbo jumbo to try and make it an intellectual debate, so they can reign superior. When really evolutionism and creationism both require faith to believe in. The difference for them is "men" wrote the Bible, but "scientists" wrote all the stuff they believe. LOL I still crack up that..... maybe one day science will learn that scientists are men. We should of learned by now that no matter what "title" a man carries that they still may have thier own agenda. For instance when they fabricated the skull to make it resemble a missing link between man and apes and recently we've seen scientists altering data to help promote thier theory of global warming. When men carry so much pride they will do just about anything to prop it up, that's something we should always be thinking of, whether it's the guy who goes door to door handing out pamplets or the guy who went to some University for decades. Jesus Himself was tempted by satan, so there is no man who can escape his attempts of trickery, whether it's tricking people into drinking poisoned kool-aid or putting faith in the idea of a world created by a chaotic event (big bang) that then developed through chaotic and unreliable circumstances (evolution) and yet when we look at the world, even in space, we see order, we see a cycle, not chaos. Everything has an unique job in nature, and yes sometimes in nature do chaotic things happen, ofcourse. But the most chaotic thing that happened to Earth was man.

Again didn't intend to say all this... just start typing and don't know when to stop. Love ya guys, it's been enjoyable.


temiprice profile image

temiprice 6 years ago

Thanks, Guys. It's been a pleasure. Not often I meet people who can share ideas about deeply held beliefs openly and without rancor.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

temiprice- i believe it has nothing to do with the topic, and everything to do with they pype of people we are coversing with, it was a pleasure talking with both of you.

Not something i can say about Juda's daughter, i fear. If you notice, she hasnt been back.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

pink umbrella, I wish to apologize to you for hurting your feelings. I really love the Bible and to attack it feels as though you are attacking my first love, the Lord ~ the living Word. I understand why you write about some of these things ~ but to those who love the Lord, it can't destroy our faith in Him ~ I know that's not your intention (at least I would like to believe so). I hope you will accept my apology. I became defensive. Your future is in the Lord's hands. I know He loves you because He died for all of us. You may love Him, too, but are just frustrated with the Bible. I hope it doesn't push you away from the Lord ~ I don't want to push you away from Him either. Please forgive me.


SirGanz profile image

SirGanz 6 years ago from MSU Marawi City

Faith is a personal a personal relationship with God,and there is no need to find contradictions in Holy Books. If one finds it a mistake while the other finds it to be inspiring, then there is no need to quarrel all are right. Acceptance is the only way to understanding and peace.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Juda's Daughter- I may not understand why so many are swayed by this book, but i do understand love. This article was not a personal attack. How could it be? But, your comment about me dying two deaths was. I know that you apologised, and i really do believe your sencerity, but saying that was very wrong of you. I am a very forgiving person, finding satisfaction in delivering the news of impending pain to others, I cannot make peace with that.

Pushing me away from the lord is the least of your worries. I think you need to go work on your ability to effectively minister to those who refuse to believe, if that is your calling. If that is not your calling, maybe you should focus on a more personal relationship, and keep your comments on this topic to yourself.

If you were reading with an open mind, you would have seen that this article was not ment to sway people from the lord, i dont want that kind of power. It was my own personal opinion. And i think i am allowed that. I have come to realize that it is our nature as humans to make others "see it our way," but if in fact we cannot do that, there is no call for anger. my responses to you were mirror images of your anger. I return to others what is given to me. And you came into this hub gloves on, and ready to go. I do not know you, and after seeing how you handle yourself in conversation with someone who you know nothing about, im sorry to say that i don't wish to. I have to tell you, brie hoffman is my least favorite person when it comes to conversation and disagreement, but even she knows how to handle herself, and i have left more than a few cicil comments on her page after a huge argument, because although narrow minded, she always remains respectful.

I am sorry i went onto your page and left the message that i did, but i needed to let you know how much what you said was hurtful. Not that i believe that im going to hell, but that you could actually seem to be satisfied with that. We are not all minions of the devil, those of us who don't believe in the bible. And just because were not actively serving the same purpose as you, we are not all tools of satan.

I hope you have a fullfilling life, and that you contunue to flourish on hubpages, but these will be my last words to you.

thank you for apologising, but it will continue to hurt that someone who does not even know me could be comfortable telling me that i am looking towards eternal suffering without even a hint of sorrow in thier words.

love be with you.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

SirGanz- i do accept that some have a belief and find comfort in the bible. I do not have faith or find it credible enough to accept that it is god's voice. Accept my right to voice an opinion please.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Hey, Pink,

Well written hub, but you only touch on the problems with the Bible. Many more pronounced problems occur, in combinations with the similarity in stories with other ancient mystic Gods like Mithra who has an incredible similarity to the story of Jesus.

But here are some other real dandy-doos just from the Bible. Did you know that in the earliest full version of the Gospel of Mark that it ended with 15:8? Yes, the entire part after that was added later, most likely in the 2nd century in order to have Mark keep up with the changing belief structure of the Church. Ezekiel prophecied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the city of Tyre, yet after 13 years of attacking, he gave up without a victory. In Mark, the empty grave of Jesus has a young man in front. In Matthew it is two men in blinding clothing. In John, it is two angels.

There were also competing scriptures written along with those chosen for the Bible. All of the books of the New Testament were written in Greek, although the language of the disciples was Aramic, and the disciples were illiterates, anyway.

I urge you to keep researching - Try looking up Jesus, Interrupted, to find more historical information on the Bible and the way it has been purposefully altered over time - and the reasons for those changes.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Pink,

You did the right thing blowing off Judah's Daughter. If you encourage them, they have a tendency to breed.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Thanks AKA. God bless you, too!


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA Winston- yes, i only touched on inconsistancies in the bible, because thats what i was writing this hub about. You know, im sorry i couldnt satisfy your needs for total bible deconstruction, maybe next time. :)

Also, yes, im aware that certain text was added at a later point, and..dare i say taken away? Whats up with little bibles containing only the new testiment? Isn't that going against god's command to neither add nor take away from his book? I pondered that question running across a baptism gift section at the local hallmark store.

As for juda's daughter, what i wrote to her was a really hard thing for me to say. I dont enjoy telling another human being that i aim to not cross paths with them again on purpose, especially after such a heartfelt apology. It was only what she said, not who she is or what she stands for that i find distasteful. I was not "blowing her off," as you say, but only standing firm in the fact that i will not let someone say something so unfeeling without letting it affect them as well. There are things in this life that you dont mean to say or do, but the cosequences of your actions may be perminant. Take drinking and driving for example. Say i down a bottle of vodka and get into my car, and crash killing someone. I cannot come back from that and go on unscathed with an "im sorry." I am a very emotional person, and when that was said to me, it had a serious effect. Not that i felt im going to hell, but that someone could be so cold about infinate pain that they believe to be true. So, i cannot allow somepne to effect me, and walk away with an "im sorry," and forgive and forget. And i need you to understand, you have no idea the things that i have let go im my life. but i have to say i think that that was one of the most hurtful things anyone has ever said to me. im not being dramatic, either. I would appreciate further commentors to not attack Juda's Daughter directly or indirectly. The intention was not to make her feel like an outcast or a target, as i do not believe that she is a bad person. I can feel a bad person when i come across one. And im not getting that from her. Only that she just made an oops by saying what she said, and even though i have had to walk away from conversation with her, it is not something i am influencing others to do also. it was a personal heart thing, not a public humiliation thing. im sure she knows that, or at least i hope so.

But thank you for your comments, AKA, if i do another religeous hub, and i probably will, i might consult you on your comment, as i think the information you gave might make a good hub after some thorough research.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Pink,

My comment concerning Judah's Daughter had nothing to do with your hub. I know of her from my own hubs and was just making a wiseguy crack. She seems a nice enough person, but then so did Jim Jones.

Truth is, though, when she says things back like, "Thanks AKA. God bless you, too!" I have the feeling she is really thinking about Proverbs and the admonission to be nice to your enemies as you are heaping coal fire on their heads when you do.

I liked a lot what you thought about consequences for actions, as that is the basis of my own personal understanding of this world. We are all equally human, and thus require no forgiveness for that, but there are consequences for all our actions, good and bad. Morality is a learned behavior from having positive feedback from certain classes of actions - no magic there.

I don't like to toot my horn on others' comments, but before you write a similar hub you may want to look at mine: Oracles of Oops! - Prophecies that Fizzled.

Nice talking to you. Ciao.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Juda's Daughter- One final word-I emaild you on the last comment i made to AKA Winston, if you read it here, just disreguard the email.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I appreciate your forgiveness and grace, pink umbrella.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Aka- Yes, well i think it a shame that everyone continuously bails everyone else out, and makes it ok when a sorry is chucked at them. Not that i think thats what Judas daughter was doing, but i make it my personal policy to treat myself as my own best friend, and not let anyone hit me where it hurts without knowing it. I cant let my feelings take a beating, not when i have so much love for myself. Although that sounds vein, its not, i just really really know and love myself.

As for consequences in general, thats my next hub. Why is it that kids can crash cars, and get pregnant so young, and mom and dad make everything ok, and step in and sweep it under the rug? I mean, its not all parents, but alot. Kinda make you realize why so many adults act so intitled, or like things that should be a big deal arent.

Juda's Daughter--- I think our "im sorry" and "i forgive you" are each for both of us. Were good people i think you and i. Thats all.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

Grace is a gift from God and if we walk in it, we'll continue to experience His agape love.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Enlydia- I read your comment over again tonight, and i think i missed part of it when i previously replied. I did go to both penocostal and catholic school. But, i got as much out of the bible there as the next kid, it was more like a class than an actual study. No, there was no intense study under another. I have read through the bible on my own, reading severl books over and over (song of solomon...hello sexy, that book is beautifully written) And did all of my studying on my own. My favorite is the book of ruth for some weird reason, i was reading it this morning. I read the bible quite frequently, despite what any of you may think. What kind of person would i be writing about something that i had to wikepedia every time i wrote about it? No, i go by the tried and true "write what you know" and of there are a few things in this life that i know a good deal about, one of them is the bible. I do not get my information from books other than the bible, because if it itself was written to be a spiritual road map for all, then i gather all i would need to know is from the origional source. It has already been translated (although in my opinion, probably not as acurately as it should have been) i dont read "bible facts" or "the bible for dummies" or anything. So, haha, to answer your question, i consider myself intelligent enough to study on my own a book that was supposedly written so that we may understand it.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

I actually consider grace a gift from me to me, and whomever i give it to, and visa versa.

I ask that you do not riddle my page with anymore hints to me about gods love. I meant what i said in my writing, but that is not an open invitation to "god" all over me. If you want to share the message of gods grace, you have your own hubs in which to do so.

Look, i gotta be real with you. Saying little things like what you just said after our recent word exchange is just going to be annoying, not helpful. I do not like to delete comments, but i will have no choice if you keep chimimg in with the short "prais his holy name" comments.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Can someone please read my new hub, im so done with this topic. Weve all said what we needed to say, sheesh! lol


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I feel like I'm listening to my daughter talking to her friends...about your age, as a matter of fact.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

yea, well i feel like im listening to my mother pretend whe has wisdome just because shes in her late 40's.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

AKA- I still find it amazing that people will put so much faith in things that they claim denounce the Bible. So easily you'll accpet anything you hear or read that goes along with your views. I wonder did you dig into the history of the people you get your information from? Did you inspect thier claims as closely as you did that of the Bible? How can you so easily accept their research and testimony? Do you think Christian's are stupid? There are many beleivers who are great scholars, well educated and even many like C.S. Lewis who was formally an athiest, but yet somehow they just looked past all the flaws because they wanted to believe in something so bad?

For most of us, we followed what Jesus said and when the supernatural change He spoke of came to our life, that was our validation. We as well have to look at information such as you have given and some of it is meaningless, some at first glance has credibilty, but what it really all comes down to is which side do you put your faith in? For you it seems you prefer to believe people who were against Christ, rather than the people who walked with Him. It's no mystery that Jesus walked the earth, in the time period the Bible states. For even other historical writings make brief mention of this man that was causing a disturbance with miracles and such. Here's a little experimet for you. Write your own book about a homeless man, who performed miracles, who stood against just about everything the modern religions preach, who was then executed, then ressurected. Get back with me and let me know how many people you convince and who knows maybe one day it will sweep the earth and change as many lives as Jesus' story.

People claim that they form thier own opinion, but really only adopt the opinion of others. Be careful of putting so much faith in men who attempt to look back in the past and deciefer its meaning, for you don't know their heart, their intent could not be to find truth, but to destroy it. Was it Columbus or the Chinese who first discovered North America? Did the Holocaust actually happen or not? Even Iran's President claims it was a hoax and that was just decades ago that it happened, and yet he and others deny it. How about the twin towers, how many people have a different view of what actually happened? Terrorist attack or inside job? Were the planes enough to cause the buildings to crumble or was there set explosives that caused them to come crashing down? and yet this was just 9 years ago, but 10, 20 30 years from now, people will believe one or the other. Some will say look here is information that says the government had something to do with it, and others will say here is information that claims Jihadist were the cause. Was America the first to the moon or not? Just know that it's all "faith", whether you believe the Bible or you believe it's critics, we weren't there, we have no way of knowing for sure what actually took place, thus we're all just humans investing our faith in something we hope turns a profit for us.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

"whether you believe the Bible or you believe it's critics, we weren't there, we have no way of knowing for sure what actually took place, thus we're all just humans investing our faith in something we hope turns a profit for us."

Wow. so, your not worshiping and loving the creator that you believe gave you life, worshiping him in the spirit of eternal thankfullness for such an amazing gift...your investing your faith into something that you hope is going to profit you in the end? Is that what you base your faith on...profit?

I would never put my whole self into another person or devine being for that matter just to "get something out of it"

Love is a gift you give...its not a boomerang you send out to grab shit for you. Do you know what im saying? Hopefully you chose the wrong words for that sentance, but i firmly believe "out of the heart the mouth speaks"

you suprise me tin.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Pink, I used profit for lack of a better term and to shorten my point without rambling on, as I do so well. lol You are correct in saying it does seem to state something else other than my intent, which is a good expample of how this whole thing got started. We sometimes jump to first impulse and react. If you look at all my comments and thier content, if you knew a little more about me, you might come to the conclusion that by profit I didn't mean the literal sense, to give only in hopes of getting more in return, but instead to put our trust into something that we hope in the end we find out is true. When I put my faith in God I'm not at all saying hey God I'm trusting in you, so now do everything for me. Instead I'm saying God I've rebelled against you, I've broken your laws, I've strayed from your path, but I believe that through your son you will save me from myself, any rewards or blessings I do not deserve, but if it's through your love that insists I have them, then so shall I take and lift up your name. I don't deserve what God is offering me, nor can I say 100% that there is a god and that if there is it's the God of the Bible, what I can say is here is my faith, I do believe with my heart that you are God, and I hope that one day I'll stand in your presense (profit I spoke of) like you have promised me.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

But JD, what do you really think. Do you not in fact believe that pink umbella will go to your eternal hell? Don't you teach that those who do not accept your god with their own free will have an eternity of suffering awaiting them? Assuming that PU does not change her mind before her demise, isn't she headed for the same place as most of the world? No one's asking you to judge here. We just want you to be truthful. Your fake appology is nauseating.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

TinCobra- I knew your intent. i was in a forum last night, and the christians were picking apart everything another hubber said just because he said he was not a believer. i feel bad for using you as an example, but i had to see how you would react. Now i feel like a real shit. Not because you didnt react the way i thought you would, i actually knowing you expected you to say something similar to what you did, but because i kind of used what you said against you in a way to make a point. Its hard not to have a conversation with a christian without the christian or the non christian mincing each others words, thats all.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hell No- i do think she was sincere in her apology, but i also know that she thinks im going to hell. What affected me was not that she thinks that im going there (ummm i know im not, lol) But that she seemed way to satisfied with the notion of me burning eternally because we disagreed on the bible. The way i hear it, a loveing heart does not delight in the suffering of others, and if its one thing i have, its a loveing heart. And i have that because its just how i am. There is no faith or devotion that has opened me up, its all me. So when someone who supposedly has felt the love of god can delight in anothers misery, thats just showing me how much more they proclaim faith on the surface than actually feel "gods love" on the inside. Youve got a real problem if you can tell someone they are going to burn forever in a lake of fire, and even have the balls to say it to them, especially if they already know thats what you believe, you know? She was so frusterated with me, she just had to remind me that if what she believes is true, im fu*ked. So, its still bothering me that a person can have enough malice within them to need to say that to feel better. pain of another, wow. When im frusterated, i eat a snickers, i dont go around telling people how screwed they are just to take the edge off of my frusteration. Thanks for your comment. I think what you said was needed. Yea, she prob thinks im going to hell. lol.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

That's the problem though. I realize that you can't possibly believe the scriptures on your own. The scriptures teach and I believe that God will decide when you learn these truths. JD, like all hellers, believes in some unscriptural and unscientific free will which asserts that it is up to the person to save their self by just believing. Not only that, she is ok with the notion that her god will torment the lost eternally. She's ok with that. She not only worships this monster, she teaches of it. And calls it a god of love. Let me just say, that I understand your non belief. Myself, I see too much truth in how the scriptures corroborate each other to call them an invention of man. And I don't think godless naturalism has a leg to stand on. But to me, one of the greatest miracles corroborating the scriptures is that the entire church system of the world are more than 90% wrong in how they interpret them. And this is prophesised in the scriptures themselves. It all has to do with God's timing in whether people understand the spiritual language of the scriptures.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

LoL no hard feelings pink. I have broad shoulders and wasn't offended at all by your comment. It actually gave me an oppurtunity to go deeper into my comment. As for Hell NO, a god of love can not be with hate (man). A god of good can not be with evil (man) God does not delight in seeing people burn, instead He sent His son to die so that they don't have to face punishment. God created Hell for satan, so when we choose satan over God he allows us to follow our god to hell. Remember it is men who claim they are so good, but even Jesus said why do you call me good for there is none good but God. We will look past all our faults and see only what we want to see. You can't highlight only the good qualites in man but fail to recognize the destruction they cause. We make the choice to break the law, therefore the Judge doesn't send us to jail, but our own actions.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hell No- congradulations for succeeding in becomeing a religeous middleman. I dont say that sarcastically, or in a mean way.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Do you guys have any idea how many comments weve racked up on this hub??!! lol


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Tin Cobra,

I'll address your points one-by-one.

(AKA- I still find it amazing that people will put so much faith in things that they claim denounce the Bible.)

That's well and good, but I don't see you refuting anything I said, and the information has been available to bible scholars for decades, in fact almost 3 centuries. This is no secret to those who study the historical bible.

(So easily you'll accpet anything you hear or read that goes along with your views.)

You mean like believing that when Tyre wasn't destroyed that was still a fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy?

(I wonder did you dig into the history of the people you get your information from?) Bart Erhman, Ph.D., UNC Charlotte, graduate of Moody's Bible college and Wheaton University. Raised as evangelical Christian.

(Did you inspect thier claims as closely as you did that of the Bible?)

Truthfully, no, as I do not read ancient Greek of Hebrew, so I had to depend on expert concensus.

(How can you so easily accept their research and testimony?)

Their research is open to inspection, and open to criticism and other views. But it is rational. Therefore, it makes a compelling case. I don't think any of them offer "testimony".

(Do you think Christian's are stupid?)

Not a bit. More like naive. I watched William Craig Lane debate Bart Ehrman and Lane is a fabulous debater and probably won the debate.

All that means is that Lane is better at debate than Ehrman. Ehrman's written arguments are much stronger and more rational.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- well played, sir....well played....lol


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Hell N0 6 years ago

King Cobra, your beliefs regarding hell are as stupid as the rest of orthodoxy. They are non scriptural and built on fear invented by men of old. So, god doesn't like to see people burn? he just has to deal with it because damnit, he couldn't control his creation? Nonsense. Your beliefs are based on mistranslation and misinterpretation. I have covered judgment in a few of my early hubs. My recent hubs are designed mostly to make fun of ridiculous heller churchology. But I answer your ridiculous assumptions involving the fate of mankind in several of my hubs. Judgment will not be a walk in the park for the lost. That includes for hellers.

No pink umbrella, I'm not offended. But a religious middle man does not go on the offense against the Christian church the way I do.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Aka thank you for answering the best you could. So again we each have our evidence and we each interpret it our way. Long as you know what you believe is based of faith I'm all good.

Hell No...... rofl bud rofl.... yes the Bible does say men all have sinned and fallen short.. So you want God to control what you do? Hmmm I'm not sure you can have love without free will. But hey put your faith in whatever you want, afterall I believe God gave us free will to choose what we want to believe and who we want to love. He doesn't want to force us to love him or follow his commands. I don't intend to prove anything to anyone, only to offer the opinions of my faith. So don't get all worked up, one day we'll all find the truth, well unless there is no god, then we just die without the satisfaction of knowing.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(So again we each have our evidence and we each interpret it our way.)

TinCobra,

Well said. To me, you have nailed the definition of truth - that which we believe to be true. Truth is subjective. There is no absolute to it.

Evidence, proof, belief, logic, truth - all these concepts are mental, i.e., a priori, and as such are all subjective.

I never mind someone holding an opinion, as long as it is not shoved at me as some kind of absolute truth, which is an oxymoron: there is no such thing as an absolute opinion.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Let me help TC. By the way, who hardened Pharoh's heart?

http://hubpages.com/misc/Why-Free-will-is-Not-Only...


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Hell No I believe Pharoh hardened his own heart bud, God may have influenced it by creating circumstanes or removing circumstances, but the Pharoh had the choice to let the Jews go or force them to stay. In the same way God infulences us by tugging on our heart to choose him and satan tugs on our flesh to infulence us to choose him.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

As far as there being no absolute truth, you might be correct, but then the very statement itself would be not true.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

No, the scriptures say God hardened his heart. There is not a single instance of freewill shown in the scriptures. And God's influence is what He used. Free will is the ability to make uncaused choices. Influence is a cause. It's christiandom that turned the ability to make choices into free will. Read my proof at the link.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Bud I hope I don't sound rude, but your arrogance is unbarable. I know what free will is, I don't need to read a hub to find out. I'm inteligent to know that when thoughts come into my head, whether good or bad, I have the ultimate choice. I know scripture says to tithe and I feel convivtion as I pass the bucket to the next person, what's that conviction, God's influence for He has written his Word on everymans heart, but yet I still have that choice to tithe or not. I unlike you take responsibility for my own actions. I'm not sure what your point is, are you trying to say that the God of the Bible is fake, but then also say He's guilty? Anyhow, from your first impression, breaking in on the scene spouting names and such, it's probably safe to say I won't be visiting the hub of Hell NO. You'll have some work to do, if you wish to sway me, but beware I aint no pup.


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Jeff Berndt 6 years ago from Southeast Michigan

TinCobra had some interesting comments:

Jeff: "I've never been one of the folks who believes that the Bible is the literal truth"

"Believe or don't. It's all one to me. I wish more of us would relax about it."

"You say the Bible is full of contradictions? It totally is! (I don't understand how anyone who claims to /study/ the Bible could refuse to even acknowledge that.)"

TinCobra: Hmmm, believe or don't? Do you mean believe in the Bible or don't, or do you mean believe what you want about the Bible? You say your a believer, but a believer of what? If you take out of the Bible, only what is easy for you to swallow but leave the rest, then how do you know you ate the right part? Sounds kinda like you see the bible as a buffet and you pick and choose what you feel like eating. I have more respect for people like Pink who claim it's all junk rather than a person who can rummage through there and find atleast something they can believe in. That is a grave mistake so say well you can believe this, but you can't believe that, this is a book written thousands of years ago, there is no way to make sure what you believe is the truth and to discredit what you don't believe. Dig the hole, plant the seed, water it, then harvest.... you take only what you want out of that statement and you'll go hungry bud.

This is Jeff again:

Nice that you assume that I'm wrong about my faith; that I'm believing something that isn't true, and that you end with the implied threat that I'll be sorry (That I'll 'go hungry in the end"). This is the sort of smugness that really gets up my nose.

I believe in God, and I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired, but I do not believe that it is the _literal_ truth. It contradicts itself too often to be literally true, as The pointed out so eloquently.

Hoo: "The earths environment changed and people stopped living as long as then."

Jeff (replying to hoo): "Really? I mean, /really/?"

Jeff (other comments): "Yeah, either the guys who wrote Genesis forgot to carry the one or something, or biology used to work a lot differently than it does now."

"Either we have to accept that the events in the Bible are allegorical and not literally true, or we have to imagine a world (this world, but in the past) where the current laws of science did not always work, and miracles were routine. Maybe the laws of science hadn't been finalized?"

TinCobra: Sorry bro I had to lol at this... You belittle Hoo when he suggested that the Earth's environment changed, which caused people not to live as long, but then you yourself suggest that biology and scientific laws may have been different then.

This is Jeff again:

Well, I loled at your response too, so it's good that we can laugh. But I'm loling at the fact that you didn't see that my suggestion was this: either the Bible is an allegory (a simple explanation) or the Bible is the literal truth, and human lifespans have changed, the laws of physics have changed, up used to be in a different direction, etc....(an incredibly complicated explanation which requires logical gymnastics that would win you Olymlpic gold if it were a floor exercise.) Is it possible that the laws of physics changed over the millennia? I suppose anything is possible. Is it likely? Not really. It's much more likely that the ancients who wrote the bible didn't fully understand physics, biology, etc, so they wrote it in such a way that they and others could understand.

TinCobra: Do you not see that as the environment changing? I would suggest that Hoo is correct in stating the environment changed, but I would be more specific into saying that disease, sin, bad habits (over eating, taking in things that feel good but are not good) continuation of making copy after copy after copy and etc. are the environmental changes that reduced life quality and length.

This is Jeff again:

So, how do you explain that the average human lifespan has been getting longer, not shorter, in the last hundred years? Are people in general becoming more holy? Or might it have something to do with, I dunno, medical science and abundant food?

TinCobra: Now Jeff this is just an observation, but it seems you may have let pink sway you by her charming good looks. She is an atractive woman, but be careful for many men, even in the Bible, have fallen due to thier affection for others. Wise up or Pink's next hub will be about the contradictions of Jeff. :P (only kiding)

This is Jeff again:

Heh, that's funny, saying that I'm basing my faith on what an attractive woman might think about it. I might be offended if I were less secure in my faith.

Here's my take: I think the Bible is divinely inspired but humanly written (and pretty incompetently edited). I do not believe that it is the literal truth, as many others do. I'm comfy with my heresy. If someone wants to believe that the Bible is literally true that's fine with me, too. Go ahead and believe that; it's all the same to me.

I take issue when someone claims to 'know' The Truth, or at least, to 'know' that I need to believe in the same interpretation of scripture that they do or else I'll regret it in the end. Maybe I will, maybe I won't; maybe we'll discover that _you_ were wrong all along. Nobody really knows.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

I think you are at the same level as the rest of Christiandom. And it's obvious that you don't know what free will is because you call it making "the ultimate choice". There is not a single choice that isn't caused. And since freewill is having an uncaused will, we cannot have such a power. Of course you won't check because your doctrinal upbringing is too precious to you. You can try and be your own god if you like but the King of Babylon made the same mistake. If you think that you "free willed" yourself into the condition you are in, you deny the scriptures that say otherwise.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

By the way TC, we need your input with the new game that everybody's playing:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Its-Time-t...


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

I guess its not enough to all believe and give hearts to jesus, you guys are all christians, and your even fighting each other. Dont get me wrong, i respect all of your viewpoints and beliefs, and i get your disagreements, and explinations, but why are you trying to force each other to agree?


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

awesome link Hell No


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Jeff- I did not intend to say you were actualy gonna go hungry, my point was if we put our faith in a person who gives us advice about planting seeds when we have no clue, but then don't follow thier precise directions, we won't have any crops thus going hungry.

Jeff we all know the environment's changed, waters are where land used to be and vise versa. The more men affect the environment the more it changes. Cities have went up where there were only trees and plains. Not sure why you had to make it so complicated, has the envrionment changed in every aspect? Idk, I would be arrogant to assume I knew everything, but has it changed in alot of aspects? Ofcourse.

I'm stilll here :p We all know the answer to men living longer Jeff, it's called medicine. We catch diseases and we go see a doctor. Does that mean we're more holy? By no means, it actually means that in some cases we don't like to face consequences for our actions. Let me be clear before people jump down my throat (since I don't have a neck) Some people obtain disease, sickness or problems not from an indirect action, but some do. Like unprotected sex, whether homo or hetero, when we catch disease we go to the doctor to have it taken care of. We smoke cigs and catch cancer we go get treatment, etc. So just because we live longer doesn't mean we aren't still dieing from a fallen world, but we have found ways to counter certain consequences.

Knock Knock, yep It's Tin here. I wasn't suggesting your faith was based off a woman. It actually was a joke. But still my point was David let his lust for bathsheba sway his morals and values, thus endangering his relationship with God, does that mean his faith changed, no.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

okay okay you got me Hell..... geez never thought I would give up this precious view of free will. Just one question for ya, who's will is it for you to comment on this forum? Or should I ask who is it that "caused" you to post here?


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Heh, that's funny, saying that I'm basing my faith on what an attractive woman might think about it. I might be offended if I were less secure in my faith.

Tin cobra- really? did you really slam someone for agreeing with me because im attractive? Thats bullshit. He doesnt even totaly agree with me. Are you reading what he writes before you start typing, or are you only skimming his comments and forming a disagreement?

Im so sure he really will alter what he says about his beliefs on this topic because of a tiny profile picture.

Sorry guys, thought i wrote a thought provoking hub, but as far as tin cobra is concerned the only thing credible about me are my looks. You were the only one to notice, Tin.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hell no...are you saying there is no free will? I must have missed that. Ummmmmmm i really dont see how that is possible


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Pink have you looked at my comment, it was all for fun and humor.

Original comment:"Now Jeff this is just an observation, but it seems you may have let pink sway you by her charming good looks. She is an atractive woman, but be careful for many men, even in the Bible, have fallen due to thier affection for others. Wise up or Pink's next hub will be about the contradictions of Jeff. :P (only kiding) "

The reason I made the comment if I may be honest was because I found your face sweet and innocent, as well as atractive and often when we put a face to things it changes our feelings some. Example people will often have more sympathy for a puppy than a full grown dog, and no I'm not comparing you to a dog. So after seeing who I was talking to, It changed how I would respond to your hub. Is it wrong to allow looks to sway you in that way, yes ofcourse, I'm not here to claim I'm perfect, nor am I here to justify my faults. So I made a joke about Jeff.

I don't understand pink why you're reacting the way you are now. The other day you must have read that statement because you commented on me saying you were attractive. Maybe you found it flattering at the time, but since then I've put a picture to my face and my unattractivness has swayed those feelings. Just making an observation and I hope I don't get criticized for this comment as well, but if so, so be it.

Nonetheless Sorry Jeff of a poor joke and sorry pink if you have taken offense. Other than that I'm speachless and not sure what else to say...


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(There is not a single choice that isn't caused. And since freewill is having an uncaused will, we cannot have such a power.)

Hell No,

You must not have read Hume. This whole idea of fatalism has been debated since Aristotle, with fatalism losing the fight.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

If you are able to cause all of your choices then you have a free will.

If you chose to be born at a certain time, at a certain place to certain parents,and it all happened then you have a free will.

If you chose to look the way you look, to have the IQ that you have, to have any and all of whatever gifts you posses, then you have a free will.

However, if the decisions you make are based on

1. Learned or inherited Intellect

2. Learned or inherited passions

3. Learned or inherited communications skills

4. Groomed or inherited looks

5. Learned or inherited athletic skills

You have only a "will". It is not free of cause however.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

So basically what your saying is your will has been overtaken by this philosophy and thus you are here to help us believe that someone or something has control over our will?


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin- ROTFL...your lucky im not one of those psycho word twisting women, although i love how you covered your ass..."im not comparing you to a dog" hahaha.

No, i did read that the other day, but there are so many comments on here, when he said that, i looked for what he meant, but couldnt possibly read through all of the comments and thought you must have said something else. Now im wondering why he took it so seriously...hmmm


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Phewww I'm glad pink.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Oh, and in no way did my perspective of you change becuase of your picture. Seriously, please dont peg me as the pretty prissy stuck up type, my bf weigs 280 lbs as of this morning, he checked, and made me scrutinize the scale...pahhhleeezzee!


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hell No...im not catching what your throwing with the free will thing. I determin my own life, and i choose what will happen knowing the causes and effects...what is free will if not that?


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Hell N0 6 years ago

I'm not saying that we aren't held accountable for our choices. We make 1000s of choices per week. But our choices are based on our circumstances (cause). Free will violates the laws of cause and effect. Real science must admit this. And it does. Today free will is spoken of almost as a ufamism. But the doctrine was basically invented by religious organisations to get god off the hook for people choosing hell. Why do you think the Lucifer myth is so important to christiandom? Evil had to invent itself for their doctrines to work. But no, we do not and cannot have a free will.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

LoL sorry pink I hit you with my self pity and insecurities. My judgment told me not to go there, but I did anyway. I was just caught by surprise that's all.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Hell I'm still waiting for my answer... who's making you post here?


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Well, let's see. Through practically millions of little circumstances in my life I have been called by God to expose contradictions of christiandom. Along the way I found hubpages, and became a writer known as Hell NO. I came up with this title as a result of my hatred for the very worst and most evil doctrine ever invented by any pagan religion. I found that I like exposing that crap because so many are held in bondage by it. I found myself at the computer this evening reading a hub of an apparent agnostic who is critical of the bible and feels that there are contradictions. Upon reading what she had to say, I noticed one of my long time advarsaries Judah's Daughter telling Pink of the hell awaiting her, or something. Actually, I followed JDs link here because her nonsense intrigues me. Anyhow, one cause led to another cause and here I am telling you why free will is religious hocus pocus.

So in closing, God brought me here.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

By the way, we're still waiting for your input:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Its-Time-t...


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Hell no- thats a relief. I thought my life sucked because i made bad choices. Now i know that my choices were limited because of the circumstance i was put in. Geeze, when i think of all the times that i actually felt down on myself for the choices that i have made....lol. Jokeing with you, but i respectfully disagree. You do make a strong point though, i just dont agree with it sir.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

all right.. thank you Hell. So since God has sent me too..... Nevermind something's telling me to just let it go. lol


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church god 6 years ago

Yes TinCobra my child. You are one of my chosen hellers. I command you to go to Hell No's link provided and support my congregation. Then, you must join me as the time of hell fire is near.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

I'm off to bed guys, I'll catch you all tomorrow. I caled into work today because I could not sleep very well last night, took some natural drug (over the counter, btw) that's suppose to promote sleep. Wish I had some of that magic free will so I could just snap my fingers and be in a cool place on a soft bed, sleeping well and dreaming of a world of peace. But since not I'll have to stick to the alternatice: 91 degrees in my trailer, sweat rolling down my body, lying on the love seat while hoping I'll eventually doze off.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Tin Cobra- are you trying to seduce us? lol "91 degrees in my trailor, sweating all over my couch..." lmao.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Hell No,

Unfortunately, you only read through the first chapters of determinism and stopped before the refutation.

Although I agree free will was introduced as an out for God, that poor excuse does not mean free will is religious in nature. Many religions drink wine in ceremonies - that doesn't make wine an invention of religion.

The cause/effect argument you believe in fails due to chance and the impossibility of 100% ruling out the improbable. Let's say I decide to hit my window with a hammer and break it (cause), but just a fraction of a second before my hammer hits the window a bullet fired from blocks away hits the window at an angle, ricocheting off, but causing the window to explode in a shower of glass. However, I didn't see it or hear it so I still think my decision and my blow with the hammer was the cause.

But even before the bullet struck, a miniscule asteroid traveling at 25K per second hit the window, and that really caused the window to shatter. I didn't see that either, and I still think my hammer did the trick.

See, to prove cause and effect determinism, you would always have to know the cause in order to utilize the modal property of "necessarily true" which is the same as saying "impossible not to".

The key issue is that a contingent proposition cannot adapt the properties of modal logic. When speaking of cause, the proposition is always contingent as cause cannot be proved 100%. So you are always stuck with classical logic of if P then not-Q, instead of the modal property you are trying to use fraudulently, which is if P then impossible not-Q.

When I say it is true that a car will be stolen by Billie tomorrow on M street, does that mean it must occur? No, obvioulsy not. The proposition is contingent upon future actions. Saying something will occur is not the same as saying it must occur.

That is the logical flaw of determinism.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- all you have proven is that you can talk yourself in circles until nothing makes sense. Im not an idiot, and i get exactly what you are saying, but i think your reaching here. And your examle....is a shakey one.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

pink umbrella,

Fatalism by cause and effect is a logical argument. The flaw in the argument is as described, in using the modal logic property improperly.

Here is a description of the refutation of Plantiga's free will defense that also covers this flaw in determinism: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/raymond_bra...


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

This is exactly why i am not a christian. I cant believe you actually buy into the fact that your life is nt what you make it. Of course there are outter influences pinging our direction, but they are random, or calculated by others. I am the maker of my own world. I know this because my decisions have been shitty, therefore my life is not what i intended. Its all me babe. All me.


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temiprice 6 years ago

Dang, Pink.

I'm gone for twenty-four hours and now we've moved on to free will vs. determinism? LOL And TinCobra accused me of using fancy words?! Has he read AKA's argument yet?

Gonna add my two cents, and it's probably worth about that. I think AKA's logic is sound. Though, to be honest, I don't think most people really base their beliefs on logic. They seldom change their position when a flaw is found in their reasoning. And maybe that's as it should be. Just because something can't be proven logically doesn't mean it's not true. As most of us know intuitively.

At least, those of us who do believe in truth.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

temiprice- yea, its getting real in here, lol


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Hey Winston, let's say that you actually knew what the term free will means or implies: You would not be inventing straw man arguments attempting to prove one thing but actually proving the other. How many times did you use the word cause in your weak attempt at scholarship? Cause is answered with effect. It matters not whether you know what the cause is. If my nose itches, I will scratch it. If I choose not to scratch it, I am going against my will. If I had a free will, my nose would not itch to begin with. I would be in control of the forces causing my desires. The misunderstanding and misapplication of the term free will does not weaken my argument that there is no such thing. There isn't and there never was. This concept has nothing to do with the existence or non existence of God. It has everything to do with logic of which despite your attempts, you are lacking. It doesn't matter how your straw man window broke. Something caused it. And it doesn't matter in this world why someone kills another. That person is still dead and the killer must be held accountable. But accountability has nothing to do with the false concept of free will.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Time for more strawman:

Let's say that a man is about to shoot another in the head. He forces the man to walk down a secluded street, points his revolver, begins to pull the trigger,. . . . . and then an astroid the size of Rozan rips right through the guy vaporizing him. So, what caused him to die? Well, I can think of two reasons. First, the murderer (yes, he is a murderer) forcing him to walk towards the path of an astroid, and second, the damn thing hitting him.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Can we change the term free will to free choice and get on with it please? Or are you guys going to kill each other and get blood alover my nice clean page? lol


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

LoL pink actually when I was writing about my sleep situation, that popped into my head that it started to sound like it was leading somewhere else.

Temi, thank you for your comment, because after reading AKA's comment I needed something to bring my mind back to reality, I was so lost I might as well been reading Chinese symbols. One issue I have with science and scholars is they speak to average people in above average terms that they don't understand. So I'm lead to believe that sometimes they might do it to prove thier superior intelect, while making us assume they know what they're talking about, but really when you get down to the nitty gritty they're just rambling on in an attempt to lead people to thier philosphy by means of trickery.

Hell No- As much as I hate going to work, it's really the only place where I get into deep thought. Usually at home I'm watching TV, playing a game, etc. so my mind is usually occupied. I'm so used to what I do at work that my body seems to just follow the norm, while giving my mind an oppurtunity to think freely, without hearing "hunny" "daddy daddy". So I thought about how your view of the word free will is so skewed. What came to my mind is that your idea of free will would be more like magic. We just snap our fingers and become anyone we want to be, wherever we want to be, with whatever circumstances we want to be. That would be nice, but the only problem with that is it actually takes away free will not grants it. The free will (magic) you speak of is unlogical, let's say that just one person was granted this free will (magic) that you speak of. This person wants to be President of the U.S. so at a snap of his finger's or a click of his heels, whichever you prefer. he becomes President of the U.S. Well what about the other hundreds upon thousands of people who want to be president? You have just taken away thier free will to pursue that. Let's say you use your magic to win the lottery, you just took that free will away from millions of other people who all wish to win the lottery. I could go on and on, but I won't. Second point; what if everyone had this magic you speak of. Everyone wants to be President, not possible and if it was who would they govern? Everyone wants to be rich, who would they give thier money to? Everyone wants to run thier own business, who would they employ? Everyone want's to win the lottey, what would be the point? Remember this happened in Bruce Allmighty, Jim Carey (bruce) granted everyone's prayer and all the people who prayed to win the lottery won like a buck and some change, you think that was thier logic when they wanted to win the lotto?

So basically again we see where the wisdom of God reigns supreme over the finite mind of man. Give people a role in society and they choose whether to follow that role or not. Give people oppurtunity and they decide to take advantage of them or not. Equip people with gifts, talents etc and they choose to use them or not. Create possibility and people will pursue or decide it's not worth it. Create good trees and one bad one and give man the choice of which they choose. Give people love and they will love others or they will reject it (hate). Give people the option to pursue God or the option to pursue that which isn't God. Can I stop now???? This is the true logic of free will, to allow everyone to do as they pease actually takes away free will. And the magic you speak of combined with the arrogance of man is a deadly combination. Hitler ring a bell?


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Hell N0 6 years ago

No TC, much like a neutered dog, you don't get it. Free will is actually a physical impossibility (so are free choices pink). And I'll use your president thing. I'd bet that there are not even 100s of thousands of people who'd want to be president. I wouldn't. But if I had a free will, I could make myself want to be president. I don't have free will. Therefore, I . . .don't. . . .want to be president. Now let's apply this to church logic. I know several people who have no interest in God or even learning about God. If they had a free will, they could make themselves want to. They do not. So, they will have to wait for God to call them. Now we can take a step back from this literal definition of freewill for a second. Still impossible but more to think about. Let's say someone wants to play in the NBA. I mean this person really wants to. He practices, stays in shape to the best of his (sorry, it's got to be a male) ability. The only problem is, he is only 5 foot 4, is genetically uncoordinated and he sweats so badly that he can't hold onto a basketball. That person doesn't even have the lesser and non literal free will. Why do you think that the churches have invented the term limited free will? Because people want to believe their foolishness and would accept square circles if they were described to them. Sorry, but free will or free choice in any form are impossible and guess what, it's also not scriptural.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(If I had a free will, my nose would not itch to begin with.)

Hell NO,

That is one of the stranger offerings I have run across. What has free will to do with chemistry and reactions? TinCobra was right - your idea of free will is magical omnipotence.

Free will is the choice of possible actions, not a wish for impossible desires. Choice, by its nature of preceding, delays action and so the completion of the action must occur after the choice, i.e., in the future (even if only imperceptibly). If it is a future event, then it falls into the category of future determinsim that I've already debunked. In a logic, what this means is that the "P" proposition is contingent upon the completion of the action as decided, and thus it can never be such that it is totally impossible that "not-Q."

The reason it can never be totally impossible is chance.

Your idea is simply fatalism or determinism, whichever term you like better to use. It's also known in religion as predestination.

(The misunderstanding and misapplication of the term free will does not weaken my argument that there is no such thing. There isn't and there never was.)

You are not arguing; you are asserting. All you have done is make an assertion that what you believe to be right is right - that kind of faith-based absolutist assertion is no different than the Christian absolutist claiming God's truth in quoted scriptures.

Of course, we have a choice - we don't have to believe your proclamation of truth.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Ya I like how you assume not everyone would want to be the same thing because that defies your philosophy, sorry bud I think your the one who fails to see round circles. A world where everyone gets what they want doesn't work.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- used your name instead of hell no's earlier...sorry, deleted it.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Neither does your stupid unscientific free will.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

unscientific lol science doesn't prove anything, only suggest


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(Neither does your stupid unscientific free will.)

Hell NO,

Now it comes clear that we are dealing with an absolutist who proclaims his own religious views of the Gods Cause and Effect.

You can always tell these religious nuts. They don't argue, they preach. They don't explain, they assert. And when you don't accept their religion, they call you stupid.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

AKA, free will has nothing to do with chemical reactions. In fact, it has nothing to do with anything because it doesn't exist. Sorry in all of your wordiness you can't wrap your mind around this. And by the way, even if we are the result of random chemical reactions evolving by chance into higher levels of existence,,,,,

We still don't have a free will. Your definition is incorrect and isn't even close to how the church defines it. And I only care about that one because they use it to teach the most ungodly crap ever. Free will doesn't actually have anything to do with determinism. Check what some of the science websites have to say about it.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Look guys, just because everyone cant get exactly what they want the moment they want it, does not mean that free will does not exist.

We are born on this earth, we walk around, shit happens to us as a result of other people, and elements other than ourselves. Were kind of like a bunch of specks just floating around bumping into each other.

There is no power that is sitting up there causing us to wake up in the car before we ram into the tree...

its us, our elements, our make up. You have more power than you realize, do you know that? Do you know that you can attract whatever you want into your life by your own sheer will and force? Its not someone else, its you. You dont give yourself enough credit for the power that you bestow.

Just think of how your mind works. Think of how it blips and tics.

i go into a resturaunt (anxiety/panic dosorder) and i keep thinking, "i hope i dont end up getting dizzy"

all that my mind knows is that im thinking about being dizzy. So...what happens? I get dizzy! happens every time. My mind did it, can you not see that?

Im not going to argue this, because if your of the faith, you will denounce it before even thinking about it

"duhaeah...dats no what bible say...duhhhahu"

So, im going to go now. Enjoy trying to change my mind about what i believe. But ill tell you, its not going to happen, and i wont argue about it.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Hell I hope that you don't base every single aspect of who you are, off what other people think. I keep hearing about science, but science is only knowledge. Scientist's interpret that knowledge and very rarely do they all agree. So who is right? Sometimes thier claim is logic and rational, and sometimes it isn't. What it all comes down to, is what we choose to believe. Who should lift a man up above other's because he was taught a supposed higher education, by other's of higher education and so on and so on, until it gets back to the first guy who either made the stuff up, or that was his/her view on the knowledge they had at hand. So if it's possible for a man to either make up his own philosphy or obtain a philosphy based off his reasearch, isn't it also possible for each man to do the same? Why is it that we have to follow the educated elitist?


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Science is not the end all be all, i will give you that. Do you know how messed up forensic science is?!

But, it has given us so much. And, never proclaims to be perfect. Why is science always the opposit of christianity?

Ill bet youd thank your lucky stars for science if gramma collapsed right in front of you, and needed a heart transplant. Because everything that surgeon knows, science gave him. So stop knocking science.

If you werent so dense, you would realize that science is the study and exploration of the things your god created. medicine, poisonous animals and plants, its the reason you have gas in your car to get to church on sunday, and its responsible for all of our conveniences and its why you are typing out your "science is b.s. comments."

But, it is not perfect. As i said, it can send a man to jail and give him the death penalty when mistreaded by man.

hmmm, man id flawed, and can screw things up royally. Perhaps like the bible?


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

You are right pink I love science for the very fact you state, but science is not claiming anything, it's scientist who make the claims, and my point is they are just the same as any man. They are not free from thier own opinions and views getting in the way. Like I said sometimes they are right sometimes they are wrong and sometimes we won't know. Just because they have an education doesn't mean they are all knowing is my point.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

..........same as christians. How many times have we thought we knew something, and found out we were totally wrong?

Only thing is, you can scientifically disprove a scientific theory. Because its not invisible.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Pink I hoped that people would understand me by now, but they keep looking at what I'm currently saying and forget what I have said, thus taking my comments out of the context of who I am. I've said what I believe (Bible) is based of faith, yes there is some intelectual evidence. Here is maybe something you might entertain, How is it that we say we've never seen God, when we don't know what God looks like? To say you've never seen God is saying that in your mind you have a view of what God looks like and thus you have never seen that image. My faith (bible) claims God as taken on many forms.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(AKA, free will has nothing to do with chemical reactions. In fact, it has nothing to do with anything because it doesn't exist)

Hello NO,

This is the first rational statement you have made. Of course free will does not exist - free will is conceptual, and thus is part of the realm of logic.

Exist, to be used scientifically, means that which has shape (an object) and a location. The reason the definition of exist is so tight is to relieve ambiguity.

However, your conclusion is invalid and illogical, though, as science (rational explantions) has nothing to do with logic (axiomatic proofs). Science cannot prove or disprove free will; only logical argument can do that.

Free will is a logical argument only. It can only be proven or disproven within the boundaries of a logical argument. I have shown why any argument against free will fails.

(AKA, free will has nothing to do with chemical reactions.)

Listen, I don't mean to be rude or insulting, but seriously, are you dense? I never came close to saying free will had anything to do with chemistry - you did when you said free will, if it existed, could stop an itch. How could free will interfere with the chemistry that makes your nose itch without being a magical, omnipotent power?

Seeing it is you who has made the claim, how about defining free will in an umambiguous manner that will support your claims?


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Pink and TinCobra,

If you enjoy science and thoughts on science, I urge you guys to read some hubs by Fatfist and also Billgaede. Lots of interesting thought on both.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

TinCobra- what are you talking about? Are you responding to me? because what you are saying right now has no relevance to what i just said.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

I don't know actually lol. I thought I understood your comment, but maybe not. Thought you were reffering to Christians thinking they were right and finding out they were wrong. Then you made a comment about scientific theory being scientifically disproven because it's not invisible. I assumed you were saying that because God is invisible, that is why I asked the question.... But I'd prefer to be your friend, rather then keep going back and forth in which you only become irritated with me and close your heart to a friendship. So please let me know, I've said plenty allready, if it's time to shut my big mouth then so be it.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Now that's a laugh Winston. Free will is as logical as a Sumo wrestler drinking a diet soda. And you're the one that asked what I think about chemical reactions and free will. And no, scientists don't agree on everything. In fact I think Dawkins mentioned that he believes in free will "of a sort". There we go again. But then, he thinks that the DNA molecule put itself together through random mutations.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

TinCobra- we are already friends, but i can call you a doh doh head today, and stick up for you in a forum tommorow! Written word is hard, you can hear the voice behind it, so somethings you, i, and other people say may sound harsh. Kind of hard to type something gently, you know?

Nope, not saying christians are wrong, saying that man is flawed, and that they can mess up both science, and bb=ible interpretation. Im saying man is wrong. How the hell do i know if there is a god, theres a 50 50 chance right? all im saying is, im not baseing my belief on what another man says he heard or saw :)


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(But then, he thinks that the DNA molecule put itself together through random mutations)

Hell No,

Aha! Your stripes just showed though. You are at the wrong hub - Creationists like yourself gather next door.

The good news is that I can ignore you and your remarks, now, as you are doing quite a nice job of making yourself out to be a boob so there is no need to further refute your irrational, illogical religious claims of faith.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Gotcha Pink. So we are in agreement then, man has misinterpreted.. I want to say everything... but then I would be making a statement that I don't totally know to be true lol, so I'll say pretty much everything. :P

You are correct it is hard to give emotion to text at times. I keep thinking is she bi-polar, she seems nice to me one sec and angry the next, maybe it's me who's bi-polar lol.


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Hey AKA that's not fair I was here first :P


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

Btw AKA I love your picture, he played a great part in that movie, a shame he's gone. I especialy like the spoof on you tube though, the interigation scene. I about died laughing the first time I seen it.


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Hell N0 6 years ago

Sure Winston. I remember stating that religion has nothing to do with what I'm saying. But at least I use clear English while you use convoluted crap.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

tinCobra- lol, no, but when i disagree, or dont understand, or think your makeing no point, i dont see why id have to pretand you are, just because were cool. haha, if you come to debate, keep your feelings at the door! Show strength behind your points, but dont get upset if i think your being a tard bomber!!!!!

Id appreciate if you do the same with me...you can tell me if you think my views are wacko, thats ok. In the end, as long as you dont personally insult who i am, its all good.

Points of view are like finger prints, everyones differ at least a tiny bit, its what makes us interesting. I mean, would you keep comming back to comment if the whole page looked like this:

yes

quite right

i agree

definately

wow i feel the same

so nice to all agree

lets agree tomorow

BOREING! No thanks. Ive learned a little about all of you, and about myself. And there are only one or two on the whole page that i think are huge idiots, but ill keep that to myself!


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

point taken :P


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

LoL just kidding with ya. Ya I love to debate, but then it comes to the point where I have made my case and the constant friction only grows heavier on my heart. I'm thankful that you have let me express my view and I appreciate that, because we all know on this hub your in control lol. I'm headed off to bed now, and to keep anyone from being seduced :P I won't recite last nights comment. Sleep well all, I'm sure I'll chat with ya tomorow.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

tin- hope that comment about me being in controll doesnt mean im a beotch! lol, sleep well, with all of that hot sweat running down your chest all over your sticky couch...lol haha j/k


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

tin- hope that comment about me being in controll doesnt mean im a beotch! lol, sleep well, with all of that hot sweat running down your chest all over your sticky couch...lol haha j/k


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TinCobra 6 years ago from Oklahoma

lol no doesn't mean you are... only that you have the option to be :P Hey atleast you remembered my comment this time lol


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Ha, my free will taking effect there? be careful, i dont want to be told i dont have the freedom to choose my temperment! lol


weekend in bristol 6 years ago

I did find your comment about Pentecostal's very interesting, because I thought I was reading my own story. The first Church I ever attended was a Pentecost Church. Thanks for sharing this post with us.


culturespain 6 years ago

I think the Bible lacked a good editor! Of course, there are going to be contradictions, as the Bible is a collection of 'books' put together by various synods in (from memory) the 4th Century. As to believing every word - that is absurd when (if you are a believer) you should be 'taking home' the overall message of the Bible as a whole. A good example would be the lunacy of believing in the Bible's Creationism stories. Great tales, from which something positive can be drawn (no doubt) but factually rubbish.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

weekend in bristol- your welcome, im forever shareing myself, so come back and enjoy!

Culturespain- Yes, i liken the creation stories to ancient native american tales. People wanted to know how everything came to be, so someone told a great story of gods, or spirits, and these stories were passed down through generations. Why when that is said do some get so angry? I mean, to take it so literally is insane! What, was god in a big kitchen mixing up a batch of earth, and adding a dash of us? No way, but that does not mean that there isnt a god. But, i give my thoughts, and i doubt ill hear more than 2 christians say "yea, that could totally be the way it happened. And the big bang for that matter, couldnt god (if he exists) just make the big bang happen, and watch as everything evolved? You know, the christian population get so frusterated with those who dont believe, only because we dont all think that it happened the exact same way they do. Its like "believe it this way. or dont bother" Well, then quite frankly, they are the ones pushing us from belief, arent they? I mean, i guess if we have to have the exact same view point as them, we will forever be seperated.


zxc 6 years ago

what is this


noturningback profile image

noturningback 6 years ago from Edgewater, MD. USA

1 Corinthians 10:23 (New International Version)

The Believer's Freedom

"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.

1 Corinthians 13:13 (New International Version)

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

There are many books in this world and many are very good at instructing how to accomplish goals, there are none like this book, the Bible as a whole. The two verses above are very beneficial to anyone leading a long and productive life. I met two 93 year old men on the same day and both of them said "Be happy with what you have".

Let us be happy with the overall message of the Bible and let us love life and seize the day "Carpe diem" for only the LORD knows how much or little time we have here.

This is the day the LORD has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

ZXC- no one likes a mr. sarcastic.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

edwardstips- i admire your candor.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

noturningback- sell crazy someplace else...were all stocked up here.........


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Now, if theres nothing further, id like to thank you all for comming and commenting. This hub had a good run, and im happy and proud to say theres around 200 comments. That means i made you think, evoked emotion, or peaked your interest. What more can a hubber ask for!

Feel free to continue to comment, but my comments will be few and far between on this one from now on, i think ive made my point, and anything further would be superfluous at this point.

@--->--->--- -The Pink Umbrella.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(Why when that is said do some get so angry? ...that does not mean that there isnt a god)

Pink Umbrella

Having been raised and subjected to the equivalent of religious abuse in a fundamental evangelical home, I can add something to your understanding here.

The reason so many fight so hard is that ANY God won't do, it has to be THEIR interactive God who created the world, died for sins, yada, yada, yadi. More liberal groups like Catholics and Episcapalians don't have such severe restrictions and would most likely agree with you. In fact, the Catholics have said there is no conflict between religion and evolutionary theory.

Of course, to the hard-core evangelicals, Catholics aren't real Christians (fancy that, the first and oldest group of Christians are the real ones).

But for the inerrantists (those who believe the Bible as infallible word of God), i.e., morons, it is not enough to have a non-personal God who creates and then steps out of the picture. No, no, no! Their God is actively involved in day-to-day living of the believers, from faith healing to daily salvations to casting out demons.

(sell crazy someplace else...were all stocked up here.........)

As Good as It Gets - terrific movie.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- yes, that has to be my favorite quote of all time.

yea, i know why they get mad, but i just think they should calm down and shut the fu*k up about it. Dont mean to be so crass, but seriously thumpers...shut the fu*k up. Go ahead, flag me...wont be the first time.


Moonchild60 profile image

Moonchild60 6 years ago

It is interesting I was having a conversation literally 3 days ago with a theologian who told me several things I had no idea about the bible. He told me that the 4 writers "chosen" Mark, Luke, Matthew and John were not the only ones who wrote about Jesus, there were others. At the time they were putting the bible together these 4 were the most popular. They realized they could choose just one. In order to gather the most followers, they chose the 4 who had the biggest amount of followers. Additionally, he said that we must take notice that not one of the original apostles wrote a single word about Jesus and what he said or thought but these guys did. Why? Some say it was illegal to follow Jesus true, but that would have never stopped the 12 men who knowingly followed Jesus all along and who didn't know this? He said it is believed that Jesus did not want them to write it down, he wanted them to preach his word, spread his words, not create a religion. He was a jew who followed jewish doctrine. He had no interest in starting a new religion. The Romans did. They wanted one of their own and took a great deal from Judaism and Paganism. The reason the bible contradicts itself is that these 4 guys never compared notes. They wrote their own stuff and when the powers that be put these 4 writers together in the bible they did not bother to compare stories. They had to leave them "as is" as each mans followers knew their stories and they could not be changed. We have no idea where these "other" stories are and whether or not they exist or were destroyed. There is literally, literally, no way in the world to know what was or was not said by Jesus or what stories were fabricated. No way in the world. I just thought I would add this as this is what we discussed and it was not mentioned here. Thanks. Very good, thought provoking hub btw...


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Moonchild- your comment is very welcome, and i hope well recieved, although, know that the wolves will decend on it when they do come by to read.


penningl profile image

penningl 6 years ago from U.S.

Great hub, thoroughly enjoyed reading and am looking forward to reading more of your hubs. Keep up the good work.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

penningl- hey, thanx! im running over to your hubs to see what you have to offer!


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(...not one of the original apostles wrote a single word about Jesus and what he said or thought but these guys did.)

Completely true. Also, the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are all ficticious - no one knows the true authors. The only surviving copies are written in Greek, not the Aramic that the disciples spoke. Plus, at that time, only about 10% of the population was literate, and the disciples were fisherman, most likely unable to read or write. Any early stories were passed along orally, as legend.

([Jesus] was a jew who followed jewish who followed jewish doctrine. He had no interest in starting a new religion. The Romans did.)

Again, 100 points for accuracy. Jesus preached to Jews about Judaism and had no interest in gentiles. There were many, many variations of early Christianity, all competing for converts along with the religion of Mithraism.

With the help of the Roman Emperor Constantine, Orthodox Christianity won out and the other writings that varied from Orthodoxy vanished or were destroyed, while new versions of Orthodox scriptures were added and existing texts altered to make it appear more likely that Jesus was the Messiah.

The book of Mark, for example, originally ended with Chapter 16:8 - the rest was added, most likely in the 2nd century.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- and you didnt share this earlier because....?


zzron profile image

zzron 6 years ago from Houston, TX.

My thought has always been that if God was not real and did not create everything, the earth, the sun, the stars and planets, all of the animals and plant life and people, then how did we all get here on earth in outer space ? We all had nothing to do with how we got here and our parents had nothing to do with how they got here and so on. People talk about this BIG BANG but how could there be a big bang without first something being created to cause a big bang ?

My second thought on heaven and hell if they exist or not has always been that it seems better to believe its true and real and find out later that it wasn't real than not to believe they are real or exist and find out later when its to late that they are real and do exist. Its true that we all will be dead much longer than we will have ever been alive and forever is a very long time. But I do think the Bible has to be studied a lot to understand it and there may be parts of it that we may never understand not because we are too stupid but because some of it is above our comprehension.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

zzron- i like you so i will refrain from commenting on everything that is wrong with what you just said. kisses!


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rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

First off, you are rude and mean! No wonder you can't understand the true meanings of the Bible which is "inspired by God," I am actually A Christian who can care less if you believe or not, because your attack on us is evident.

Dense People obviously just can't understand I have figured out over the years, and always argue every little sentence in the Bible. God gives true knowledge and understanding of the Bible with the spirit.

I am not going to even bother to give you my testomony because you just want to bash Christians for what they believe, and make fun of their faith. This is why you built this hub.

Good job! I hope you feel so proud! You accomplished your mission but remember this: Regardless of whether YOU believe it or not, doesn't make it NOT true.

Jesus said it is our faith in Him that saves us. Not your permission to believe in our faith:)

Now your little Christian bashing game is over.

FYI:::Yes, I am a Christian and I feel NO guilt for outing you! I don't like people to exploit my family. Cheers!


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

lmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exploit your family?

Your outting me?? thats laughable. Let me twll you something hunny, if theres anyone that has outed me on my pages...its me. Im not mean and hateful, im tired. Tired of being treated like im dirty because im not running around agrreing with christians and slapping people with a bible.

No doubt your christian friends will see you as victorious for takeing down the poor pathetic non believer. Well, i find you rediculous.

And what about you and your christian frineds? And your condesention on all of those who choose not to subscribe to your fairy tales? You are telling me that your attacks dont hurt as much as our defense against you?

Someone voices their opinion, and because its not yours, you tell them you will "pray for them." Like they are lost and hopeless.

So right back at you...just because you believe something does not make it true...no matter what mommy told you.

Oh, and by the way...I have said over and over again that its not the christians im up against...its the pushy mean condesending hipocriticle christians.

My christian bashing game is over? Is that what you see when you look at my words?

I have more love for strangers that i meet on the street than you have for yourself.

I trust more openly, give more freely, and forgive with more sincerity than you know.

You do not know me...

So dont sare come on here pretending you have any idea what i am talking about when the only thing you recognized on this page was that i dont believe in god.

I have no idea if there is a god, and i do not believe in your bible.

I could give a rats a$$ about your testimony, although its apparent you desperately needed to mention that you have one.

I built this hub because i love to write, and i wanted to express myself.

EXPRESS MYSELF.

You know, what people do, when they show other people their thoughts and feelings...

But im sure your individuality goes no further than the cross you bedazzled onto your bible case.

I was so tired of being attacked and "ministered" to, that yes, i decided to voice my opinion. So sorry if it wasnt your favoirite bedtime story, but im not out to please you or anyone else for that matter.

And if by family, you mean the entire christian population, not all of them see my hub as an attack.

your comment is amusing, but seriously, what are you trying to prove here.

"Jesus said it is our faith in Him that saves us. Not your permission to believe in our faith:) "

That sentance is the most absurd thing that ive ever heard.

You want to know what i believe?

that there are actually people out there who dont need the threat of hell to be decent people.

that if there is a heaven, my son will get in based on his good heart, and not his final confessions.

that people have it within them to change.

Your portrayl of your god is that of a mean hearted beast who requires daily affirmation.

you people treat the bible as if it were its on god.

I am not picking apart tiny sentances, i am merely stateing that the entire thing is full of inconsistancies, lies (note the comment about how the names of matthew mark luke and john arent even real names) and falsifications.

It hilarious that you all take a story that was meant to be a tale to learn from into an actual event. I was 12 and was suprised when my teacher told me that Adam and Eve were "real people."

Know that every religeous hub i do is evoked out of an attack or a slam in the direction of my particular beliefs.

Its a response.

This is how i feel, and no ammount of scolding on your part is going to change that.

You know, when you write your nasty little comment in my box, remember that you are writing it to a mother, a daughter, someone who struggles day to day to keep things stable, a sister, a giving person, a lover of stephen king...

In essence, im a person. A person who does not believe what you believe. And if that makes you angry, well theres nothing i can do about that. Because if i was on here standing on a pulpit, writing in all caps that SINNERS WILL BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY...

you wouldnt even have left a comment. If i was on here telling people that they were retarded for not getting right with the lord, you wouldnt have made a comment.

But because im writing an article, and makeing comments that dont flow with your faith, here you are, being nasty as all get out.

Lets see, im dense, im mean, im a christian basher...

My hub angers you, i get it.

but wow, you dont even care if i ever "get saved"

Thats nice.

nice to know your comfortable feeling that i will burn for all eternity.

Your a real sweet heart yourself.

So what brought you down my little yellow brick road? Angry family member? Pissed preacher? Or were you looking for someone to dump you menopausal beotch attack on?

Ha, outted me. thats funny. Im not the one hiding behind my fathers leg yelling judgement to anyone that passes who isnt wearing white.

All of my thoughts and feelings are here, plain and clear for all to see.

your anger screams of fear...and thats something.

you think im the devil...well booga booga.

I love how you wrote "your little christian bashing game is over"

ill tell you whats what.

your response is tired, and its been heard over and over in so many ways.

i am through trying to save the feelings of those who consider people not unlike myself to be "lost"

save your rants for someone who cares.

Im going to remain ture to myself, no matter who doesnt like it.

Dont tell me whats over, because nothing was started to begin with. Only my heart pouring onto a screen.

So if you dont like it, dont read it. Tell me hunny, do you study your bible daily? Or do you let some over stuffed fat "man of god" do it for you while you nod your head in agreement muttering "Amen?"

Do some reading, im right and there is nothing you can do about it.

You refuse to check and see for yourself. you refuse to look at what is right in front of you.

God may be there, but he didnt write that piece of crap, and i know that to be true.

jesus, i would hate to have someone write something that wasnt even close to how i felt just so that they could control others.

The bible is no road to salvation, its a weapon used on innocent hearts, because some controlling manipulative power monster wanted things his way.

I feel bad for you.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

oh, i forgot...thanks for comming by. I hope the comment you left allowed you just enough time to stay occupied while your ice cream softened on the counter. Thanks for increasing my hubtraffic, and feel free to dump your misplaced anger on me again.


rescueachild profile image

rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

Exactly my point, mean and rude!


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Hi Pink Umbrella! I wanted to let you know (in case you didn't know) that when I brought up Hub Pages, this is one of the top hottest hubs. I was mighty impressed and wanted to congratulate you. It's going to get hotter, as everyone who visits HP's home page will see that it is top rated. I am sorry that you have to spend so much time defending your views, but it appears you are up to the task. You have over 200 comments and that is just enormous for 9 days, plus you have an actual debate going on with thought out responses on both sides. This hub has become a living thing, and I know that there was a point you thought of leaving HP because of the animosity that comes from some of the harsher prospects. I am proud of you for sticking it out, and for standing your ground. Good job. Excellent, really! :) Nothing is ever so enlightening than a writer who actually makes the reader think. Oh and this comment is for you, not your fans, so you can accept it or deny as you please. I know it adds nothing to the hub or the debate, I just wanted to give you a well deserved pat on the back.


Wrath Warbone profile image

Wrath Warbone 6 years ago from Cleveland, Ohio

Thanks for getting a discussion going. That is always a good thing. And keep on deciding for yourself. You will grow wise by being honest with yourself about the way things seem to you.


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

rescue child- and what do you call comming in here and calling me mean and rude and dense? yea, i think id call that childish, mean, and rude!! stupid cow....


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Faybe Bay- lol, are you kidding? After that last crazy commentor, i need something nice! This hub is one of the top ten hottest? Thats weird to me! its not even on my page right away, you have to click the arrow over where it lists my hubs!

Thanks for the compliments, really. Hopefully not everyone thinks that im sitting here actually hateing christians for their views, just want the freedom to publish mine without getting burned a tthe steak.

I also find it interesting that someone can come on here and call me all sorts of names, and then say that im mean and rude.

you know what this country would be like if we werent allowed to talk about our points of view, and freely say what we think? Try living in nazi germany circa 1919. That was the begining of something aweful. If you reach back far enough, my Great great...etc grandmother Lazitus could tell you a thing or two about that...So im not about to hold my feelings in ...for anyone (ahem...rescuechild)

Im up tp the task of defending myself, because im honest and despite what many people think, i feel my heart is pure.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Wrath Warbone- thank you very much. I find a certain inner freedom in expressing my true feelings. Its helped me more than you will ever know.


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

When you feel ready for it, I will bring you some well deserved respite in the Kaballah and Zohar. Ironically these mystics do not take the Torah and Talmud at face value, but seek the hidden meanings of the text. The idea being that each letter of a word has it's own meaning that is to be contemplated. When you put the stories into that perspective, that it's really code (much like Nostradamus' quatrains) it makes any discrepancies much easier to understand. Think of the last book of the Bible, where it says "Let him who has understanding hear what the spirit is saying to the churches..." Obviously it is not for the "Churches" to understand this work, but for "him who has understanding". Further allusions to the fact that the whole Bible is a work of codes within stories is available throughout the book itself. Even the story of creation is not about creation, but about enlightenment, which is why it starts with "Let there be light..." Of course your ministers won't tell you that, because they don't think you are ready for the truth. And they paid to go to school to learn it, didn't they? So if we want to know we have to go to them? No, we just have to know where to look for the truth.

Big Hugs to you, Pink Umbrella. No, you have not tried to harm any Christians, just tried to wake them up so that they might become more enlightened. That they would follow their heart into goodness, instead of trying to squeeze goodness into their heart. By virtue of the fact that we are all one, that is why we should be kind and loving toward one another; not because the book that may or may not have been transcribed, by those who may or may not have heard it from God. Why is it so hard for people to see that we should have morality because it is right, not because it "May get us into Heaven". I personally believe in God, and that he is so disappointed that we are still "Straining at a gnat, yet swallowing a camel."


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

FabyBay- Bring on the kaballah, as you know, im always open to discovery. I love how some try to twist my words so that they may seem victemized by what i have said. Ya gotta laugh at that! You are free to leave in the comments or email me any information you have that you are willing to share about different belief systems, i am totally open. I myself have been diving into buddhism, but i have alot of time, and a searching heart. Funnily enough, my searching heart is why i started studying the bible for myself. It was an honst attempt to gain perspective for myself instead of having someone do it for me who i believed to be full of $hit. lol. I didnt think he had a clue as to its message, and although i was right about him, i was sad to discover i found nothing in the bible that seemed to lead to "salvation" Only a list of rules and regulation that dont seem very devine to me. i actually really tried pretty hard to force myself to be catholic, because my grandmother is, and although i hate her, i felt kind of a pull towards that direction. Only to find out that all christianity is the same with slight variations, and the catholics werent to happy about a non catholic comming to church and taking that sacrament. I was actually told not to recieve the bread and wine as i was not a catholic. How can a christian do that? Tell another when its right to recieve the body and blood of christ? Who are they? If im correct, the first to receive were meerly followers at a table, and they didnt have to go through confirmation to do it. I dont know, anyway, i could go on forever about the aweful ways that the bible, even though i do not believe it is "gods word" has been twisted and turned onto something so unrecognizable, that if there is a god, he himself is probably screaming from the heavens "what the hell are you talking about, thats not what i meant...."


rescueachild profile image

rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

Cow? WOW..... you are dense.

I am tired of Christian bashers like yourself who try and find reasons to call us names because of our beliefs. Yes, congrats on your hub because it is front page news now, and that is how I found you. Now everyone will know I do NOT put up with people Christian bashers!

I am sick of reading crap from people who like you who bait Christians into a discussion to bash them. I'm sorry your family has issues but that does NOT give YOU the right to bash us Christians. Nobody is perfect, but you seem to think that we are supposed to just stand around and take it like so many others.

I read your comments toward my fellow Christian brothers and sisters, and you are RUDE, MEAN, & make no sense at all. I am not trying to convert you and I am ALSO EXPRESSING MY OPINION! I am so sick of people like you who try and make us look bad because YOU had a bad experience. That's not our fault so stop taking it out on us. The whole country is against Christians now because of the sins of the Catholic church! That's not our fault either. Get over yourself and bashing Christians when they try to EXPRESS their opinions. IT is a two way street!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Lets not forget miss moo, that you called me names first.

As for my family, you would be wise to stay away from that conversation. Issues...seems you have a few of your own, so dont go there.

I am not "lureing" anyone in just to bash them. You must be a sick person, if you are even able to think that way. just remember, it is the liar that trusts no one. If you are thinking that that is what i am doing, you might want to look inside at the person you really are.

Its fuuny that you think im dense, yet you have taken this entire hub as a personal insult, lol.

I happen to be a very intelligent person. Kind of helps in seeing through the b.s. to get to the real truth of the matter.

I am sorry you have fallen into something that forces you to defend without any rationality.

My i remind you that this is my hub, and it belongs to me. Your comments are approved by me. You have a place to express your hateful anger, i suggest you keep to it.

I had no idea my hub was front page news, i have written a few hubs like it, and it never happened before, so if your implying that i did this on purpose, well thats another issue you may want to look into yourself. Funny, its always the ones capable of such things that think that they have the market cornered on others intentions.

I am actually, not a mean person. But i think that you have definately shown how nasty you are.

Your past is no ones fault, stop taking your anger out on me, and take it up with your therepist.

As for the bashing, i actually have the free right to bash whomever i choose, although ha, its not my style. you christians seem to have no problem bashing the life choices of others, yet get all uptight when anyone throws a stone in your direction.

And no one hates christians just because of catholics, thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Dont you realize that how you represent yourselves is where the criticism comes from, you silly little lamb.

Your fellow christian brothers and sisters, who for all you know are going straight from my comment box to watch kisddie porn. Go ahead, form an alliance with people you dont know. lol.

I had no "bad experience" Just enlightening ones. The experiences ive had saved me from becomeing like you. Thank the sweet sweet option to choose for that one.

If your repeated comments are an attempt to show how right you are, and how wrong i am, its not going to happen here. So go write a hub about it. Bash me all you want on your own pages, because unlike you, i wont be going on anothers hub to tell them not to write what they want.

ha, although i have written a comment or two on pages who bash gays...

because weather or not you like it, we as people have freedom. Freedom to love whomever, and live however we want.

So you and your "brothers and sisters" should think about how you treat those "sinners" before you dare tell anyone to be silent about how the ways of your religeon are mean, discriminatory, and just plain wrong.

My personal opinion on you? Your seeking to be right. Im sorry, babe, but on my page, your just another angry woman who is out of midol. Your opinion is not valued by me because i dont wind any goodness in your intentions.

Im going to leave you with your opinion, as it is obvious you are not like your "brothers and sisters"

Your defending nothing, you just want to be part of the discussion, and stand out, thats what i think.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(AKA- and you didnt share this earlier because....?)

Pink, darling, it was your hub. I have my own hubs where I cover such things. Like I said, I do not like to promote my own hubs in others' comments.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- nothing sarcastic meant by that, just that it was awesome info you shared. Feel free to say "see my hub...blah blah " I know its frowned apon on hubpages, but i never mind anothers perspective being shared with thise who read my hub, weather its in sync with my views, or not. :)

But i do get you there, i dont promote my hubs on others pages, either.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(Jesus said it is our faith in Him that saves us)

Rescueachild,

As Dan Akroyd once said on Saturday Night Live, "Jane, you ignorant slut!"

You don't have the first CLUE what Jesus said about ANYTHING, because all you have left of your precious NEW TESTAMENT are copies of copies of copies, written in Greek, of lost writing of unknown authors who in all likelihood were ILLITERATE FISHERMEN, whose native language was NOT GREEK BUT ARAMIC.

They could have told you about how to catch Mackeral, but they couldn't have written down directions to the bait shop, much less taken dictation from Jesus.

In fact, for all you know, Jesus may have said, "Believe in me I've got swampland in Galilee to talk to you about." Then he mumbled "idiotic Gentiles," under his breath.

If you want to bash, bash with honesty that you really have no clue what anyone said 2000 years ago - there weren't any tape recorders around and the stenographers were busy in Egypt and Kelly Girl was still an ovary.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- lol............thats not very nice..... :)


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Pink Umbrella,

Sorry, but that kind of paranoid, bible-thumping attack was uncalled for. It simply illustrates what I had to say in one of my hubs that: love is a decision and an action.

Attacking someone like that is an action - but it AIN'T based on LOVE.

The thumpers like to quote their authority and feel all squishy inside about their God.

You, on the other hand, I would bet show more real love in a day than most Thumpers manage in a lifetime.

I really liked your hub and your thinking - and not a single one of us is special. We are all fuck ups. Humans. There is no need for salavation from self - what do you say, Father forgive me, because I'm a fuck up? If you made me, then you made a fuck up. What the hell did YOU expect me to do?

Does a scorpion ask forgiveness for stinging his prey?

Keep up the humanity, Pink. That's where real salavation lies. Good job.

Btw, I decided a few years ago to stop ignoring the Christian Fundamentalist, not be nice to them, and call them out on their ignorance when they tried to form into a political force.

They can handle snakes in their basement; when they bring the snakes onto the place it's time to call Samuel L. Jackson to kick some Fundie ass!

"And you will KNOW that I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!"


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Hi Pink, I hope you don't mind if I call you Pink. I will first give you my two favorite interpretations, one from Kaballah, and one from The Zohar.

In Kaballah the letter of the law, as it were, is spelled out in the letter of each word. To come to the "words" of God then you must approach the Alphabet. Aleph (first letter, or sound pronounced by Adam's {man's} mouth) means God. Our first sound meant God. The character given the sound and the word to name the sound Aleph, is God. The second sound and name of the sound is Beth. and the character, name and sound meant House. Aleph-Beth Alphabet= House of God. The alphabet with which we speak, the words we make, they are God's House. God lives in our words. God's Words spoke all that is into being. "He said, Let There be Light, and there was Light, and he saw the Light was good."

From the Zohar: God suffers with his people because he gave them his most prized possession, to travel with them day and night to comfort and keep them. God gave Mankind his words... His words are his Wife... His Soul Mate, his Other Half, His Power. As long as she is with man God will not destroy Man. But God will punish any which defile his wife (think of the liars who use God's word to enslave and harm others rather than enlighten them). Ironically, my favorite Billy Joel song is called "You're my Home" and was written as an anniversary gift for his first wife, because he had no money to buy her anything... He gave her words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4D40r-E7yk

After this the Bible becomes much easier to understand.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- no apology necessary here! that was funny, though, lol. Thanks for the compliment, love is a very important thing, and its something to be valued and believe in. Of all things invisible, you cant deny love!


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the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Faybe bay- had no idea what those two involved, guess they are useful if you need help in understanding the bible. Thanx for the comment.


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

Just that the biblical stories are not meant to be taken literally or as history. Even the generations, numbering and years of life are not meant to be "gospel truth" just as the Story of Atlantis is not meant to be taken as a history of a real people, as Dante's Inferno was not a real picture of hell, the Bible is not a real history of man or of life on earth. The Bible is a collection of stories meant to work at enlightening us, just as the teachings of Buddha enlighten... That's what the Kabballah and Zohar are, studies into what the text means. To do that the study of the letters, not the words or sentences or stories, but the study of the meaning of each character is necessary.

I was once told that if God wanted to reveal all of his nature and history to us the library would be so vast the earth could not contain it. If that is true, and each letter in the bible is really a word, or concept, then that would account for side by side contradictions in the translated form. The scribes were translating words, not concepts and ideas. Just a thought.


rescueachild profile image

rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

First of all Winston ~ f*** off ~ I wasn't talking to you! Slut? Is that really what you have to say? What a loser!

Pink Umbrella, I said what I had to say on your other hub. I can care less what anyone else believes and I just felt you were attacking Christians. I aplogise for my overreaction it's been a hard week.

Peace!


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Rescueachild,

YOU ARE THE VICTIM???? LMFAO!!!!!

You said,

(First off, you are rude and mean!)

Start with an insult. I guess your reading of the Bible kept you away from How to Win Friends and Influence People.

You follow by calling her stupid

(No wonder you can't understand the true meanings of the Bible)

You make a bald-ass unproven assertion, just like saying Santa is real, and I bet you had your lower lip stuck out:

(which is "inspired by God,")

You show your true colors of hate and bigotry

(I am actually A Christian who can care less if you believe or not,)

And then your schizoprenic paranoia

(because your attack on us is evident.)

Then you return to odious insults:

(Dense People obviously just can't understand)

Claims of false God-inspired enlightenment:

(I have figured out over the years, and always argue every little sentence in the Bible. God gives true knowledge and understanding of the Bible with the spirit.)

MORE INSULTS:

(I am not going to even bother to give you my testomony)

and a paranoid, false conclusion

(because you just want to bash Christians for what they believe, and make fun of their faith. This is why you built this hub.)

And then some good, Christian sarcasm just like Jesus taught you to do:

(Good job! I hope you feel so proud! You accomplished your mission but remember this: Regardless of whether YOU believe it or not, doesn't make it NOT true.)

And then you finish on a high note of paranoid schizophrenic hate:

(Now your little Christian bashing game is over.)

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE GALL TO SAY, OH, GEE, SORRY, I HAD A BAD WEEK!!!!

You're just a typical fundie, full of bitterness and hate because cognitive dissonance has caused you to ignore all rational thought and exist in a world of make believe - and therein lies the definition of psychosis, one who cannot differentiate real from the imaginary.

You are as unstable as an IED - don't blow yourself up in a crowd, please, trying to prove the Christian heaven exists as the Bible proclaims.


rescueachild profile image

rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

Look Loserfreak I settled my differences with Whom I WAS talking too. I wasn't talking to YOU! You are such a LOSER for keeping it going! MYOB!!!!!! You want to call people sluts???? Whatever! I can care less. I admitted I was wrong so go F*** yourself! Sounds to me like you your just spouting off to get attention because this now has NOTHING to do with what WE were talking about. Please.... SAVE IT!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- yea, fu*k off! just kidding :)

lol

Rescue child- maybe AKA had a bad week...or maybe he was just tired of watching us non believers get attacked by believers for voicing our opinions. Either way, AKA is welcome to say whatever he chooses on my hubs, he has gained my respect as someone who knows where he stands, and hasn't said one thing on this page that he has had to apologise for.

I think you might just be a little upset that there werent 3 or 4 people backing you up in your attacks towards me, yet low and behold, there is someone here who dosnt think the way you do, pointing out how wrong what you said was. I accept your apologie, but it doesnt erase what you said.


rescueachild profile image

rescueachild 6 years ago from San Jose, Ca

PEACE


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

and also with you...lol


zzron profile image

zzron 6 years ago from Houston, TX.

I'm glad you like me Pink, you are so sweet and I like you to. I guess we can agree to disagree :)


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

zzron....Awe....big hug? lol


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

klran- im going to stop reading at the very begining of your comment.

I do not take the bible literally, and am amazed that people actually do, its rediculous to do so. Did you even read my hub?

Your first two comments were ok, but now, as you keep commenting, you are starting to want to "explain" things to me.

Im no novice when it comes to the study of the bible.

"My suggestion : read the background (the context, the culture, the philosophy, and the stylistic of Bible) before you are posting some article like this. It not shown anything but the lacking of knowledge that you have in a literature. Sorry, I'm not trying to personally attack your intelligence."

Not showing anything but the lack of knowledge i have in literature?

Are you out of your fu*king mind?

You are wrong, you see me as not openminded because i do not believe as you do.

Everyone has a different interpretation, excuse, or reason why everything in the bible is true, and haha it seems to me that they are all different.

I am the most open minded person you will ever come across. I mean...i read the bible every day, along with whatever else im looking into at the moment.

I can see you now, you come here seemingly nice, and then read, and get frusterated. Dont start an argument my friend, i will shut you down like no ones business.

We have gone over and over everything you probably mentioned here more than once, and im really tired of telling people off.

You say your not personally attacking me, but then you tell me my "lack of knowledge...."

Yea, your calling me ignorant. I am not, I am well read, and anything but ignorant.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

Yeah, Pink-er-roo, don'tcha know nuthin'? What are ya, a fundie moron or something? :-))

Learn this and prosper, chick-a-doo:

The Bible is metaphor when it is convenient to be labeled metaphor, like that crazy story about living for 3 days in the belly of a "great fish". (Nobody really believes that crap, not even the Adventists - and they believe everything!)

The Bible is Lewis Carrol's Queen of Hearts when it is convenient for "a word to mean exactly what I want it to mean when I use it, and not a single thing more!" Adam only died in s-p-i-r-i-t, see? The Bible is also a Richard Pryor impersonator: "Adam wasn't really dying, dying, he was just k-i-n-d of dying."

The Bible is also a rerun of Law and Order and Perry Mason, when it is convenient to comment on the Mystery of the Missing Son. "So, Mr. Israel, you DO have a second son who resides in the second city this second? And that's why you murdered the first?"

And lastly, the Bible is symbollic - because I say so.

Hope this cures your ignorance! :-)) As Mr T. always said, Pity the fool!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

AKA- thank god for you, or i would have drowned in a world of my own stupidity. :)

Listen up people, i aint got no book learnin, so cancha skool me on that bible thang use all talkin bout?

Jesus christ..............


Olde Thyme Religiosity 6 years ago

Well, The Pink Umbrella, thanks for getting the whole thing set straight. Bible written by (mostly) men, stories not really worth much to most of the world since there are many more non-christians than there are christians, and even among the christians there are deep divisions.

Maybe they're terrorists who want to indoctrinate us to follow blindly the paths to self-destruction. Oh,no, wait ... that's what al Qaeda does, isn't it? Convert or die? It CAN'T be TRUE that fundamentalist christians are anything like al qaeda, could it?

TELL ME IT AIN'T SO, JOE!

The day when the majority of humanity wakes up and discovers that all this religiosity is just a way to control their minds, actions and bank accounts, we will have take one giant leap into becoming a better species.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

Olde Thyme Religiosity- dont hold your breath my friend, dont hold your breath,lol


klran26 profile image

klran26 6 years ago

sorry if you got angry when you have read my comment. What I'm trying to say that all people need companion books when they read bible. It applied for all people, whether they are Christian, new Christian, non Christian, and even priest or Theology students.

We should using dictionary, encyclopedia and some other companion books. These books usually provide solid and valid informations. A bridge between our today world and the Bible's world, including cultural study, language study, additional informations and etc. So, you can understand what Bible had said in the contextual manner.

What I said about the lacking of knowledge was because your title. I expected some fact, strong opinions and etc. But, I didn't find it on this article.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

(A bridge between our today world and the Bible's world, including cultural study, language study, additional informations and etc. So, you can understand what Bible had said in the contextual manner.)

What KIran said here is certainly true, the historical-critical method of studying the Bible is used in theology schools worldwide. Most of us read in a "verticle" fashion, i.e., we start at the top left of the first page and read from there until finished. But to study contradictions in the Bible, a "horizontal" method is best employed, i.e., read a common story from two books side-by-side and compare details. For example, the passion. For historical accuracy, on what day and at what time did Jesus die? (And here is where KIran's advice is right, in that to know the day and times one has to know the customs of Jerusalem Jews at that time, because the dating method revolves around the Passover Day of Preparation and the Day of Passover itself.)

The books of Mark and John disagree. In Mark, Jesus dies on the morning of Passover day. In John, Jesus dies on the afternoon of the Day of Preparation - the day BEFORE Passover.

Why the differences? Different writers with different motives.

John, the last of the Gospels to be written, favored a version of Christianity that promoted Jesus as "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." Indeed, the Gospel of John is the only one that indicates this sacrificial lamb aspect of Jesus.

The Passover lambs were slaughtered on the Day of Preparation, therefore John has Jesus (the lamb of God) die on the Day of Preparation, while Mark, written much closer to the actual date of death and with no theological ax to grind, has Jesus die on Passover day.

It certainly appears as if the writer of John made a change in the dating to support a theological viewpoint that was not shared by the writer of Mark.

And NOW you know the REST of the story.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

klran 26- there is no text alive that can erase the contradictions. Yes, im sure you can do your best rationalizing and debinking quite a few of them, but there are alot of contradictions in there that simply just are. You cant hide them, erase them or rationalize them, and the problem with different writers is as AKA has mentioned...different motives. I remain firm in what i have said, the bible is a weapon, not a road to salvation. No faith alive could change my mind, i dont care if sweet jesus himself came down and kissed me on the forehead...that would not make me look to that book for answers. Now, that being said, yea i read the bible, and have gotten inspiration, some "live by" sayings, and even some advice...but at no point have i ever felt that this book was not full of exagerations, tools, and lies.

Forgive me for saying this, but you found nothing in my hub substantial enough for you, because you are still clinging to the loyalty surrounding your god. Which, is wonderful....but open you eyes.


anonymous 6 years ago

lol i can't believe the pink umbrella girl has been on this for over a week.....chill out

nobody cares

let people believe what they want.

I tell you I'm an atheist, and your gonna rant on about why your right and I'm wrong.

just CHILL.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

anonymous- yea, i cant believe i keep responding. tried to end the conversation a few times, but thats what i get for publishing this hub!


brotheryochanan profile image

brotheryochanan 6 years ago from BC, canada

Don't come back! lol and i proved you wrong. I see what you are all about, miss vanity. You are always wrong. The fact that david slew goliath twice is perfect. First we all die a fleshly death and then the sinners die a spiritual death. Two slayings are not unscriptural at all.. Have your opinion but don't bash everybody around you for voicing theirs. Your nasty mannerisms give me the heebie jeebies, but i love showing that you are wrong. Christianity 101 knows more than you do.

Enjoy!


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

BROTHERYOCHANAN- hahahahahahaha. Miss Vanity? What makes me vain? Your way off your mark with that one, buddy. Yea, i get that there are "two deaths" but david didnt kill goliath and then kill him again. david had no power over sending goliath to hell. Your a freakin idiot. I didnt say two slayings were unscriptural, i said that whoever wrote it made an oopsie by deciding goliath would be killed with a stone, and then decided he would be killed with a sword, and didnt erase the first killing. My nasty mannerisms? Wow. Im serious, you didnt prove me wrong, but there is something really dark about you that i cant put my finger on. every time i see your profile picture, i get that feeling like i just watched a creepy horror movie. Oh, by the way...Christianity 101...the first think you learn being "defend all aspects of our religeon, even if you have no freaking clue what your talking about."

You know, i recently watched a documentery on cults, and i have to tell you, your religeon doesnt seem that much different than a cult to me. You could be the world leader...your creepy looking enough.

You must have been really bored today to come on this hub and comment, this hub is old, and were all pretty much done with this conversation. Thanks for stopping by, but your comments will no longer be approved or even read by me. You creep me out and I dont like your energy. I can just feel that youve done something horrible and i dont want any part of your words no matter how "right" you think you are. Let someone else who doesnt have a shaddow over them tell me im wrong. Id honestly take anyone over you.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

By the way, nice hub score. Maybe if you spent a little less time in the forums stepping on non believers and a little more time doing what this site was built for...WRITING, then maybe you could get out of the 60's.


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AKA Winston 6 years ago

BROTHERYOCHANAN,

They are playing your theme song:

"Women seem wicked when you're unwanted

Streets are uneven when you're down

When you're strange

Faces come out of the rain

When you're strange

No one remembers your name

When you're strange

When you're strange

When you're strange"

What was your name again???


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

ROTFL...lol


epigramman profile image

epigramman 6 years ago

...I am so very very proud of you - that was the longest scroll down to the bottom of the screen - of all time!

I had to put it on auto-scroll and make my breakfast and then I came back - it was still scrolling - happily I might add - and purring too!

And it took so long - that Jesus made a comeback on Larry King Live ..... well that just goes to show you - there are two topics which get people all wound up and invite comments galore - politics and religion.

And there's another kind of religion which gets me all wound up: you

Your hubs amaze me with their breath and variety of subject material - you always make your readers think and feel and come alive with passion and strong opinion.

I saw another film last night by the way - the documentary with Bill Maher called Religulous - which is about 'doubting the Bible'

...but one thing for sure I never doubt you!

You're the cream in my morning coffee ....


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

epigramman- haha, now your just showing off with your ability to make my face red! lol. I had no idea the kind of response i would have when i wrote this, i was sure id be chased off by torches and pitchforks! But, i found out that theres one thing that both sides of the argument are forgetting... they arent as different as people as they wish. A gay rights activist and a die hard christian can both enjoy the same piece of chocolate cake, have their heart broken, and stub their toe. Theres no reason to focus only on our differences, this subject was something that made alot of people angry, but we do need to remember that were all people here.


epigramman profile image

epigramman 6 years ago

..how poetic you are - is your face still red - lol lol

a gay and a christian enjoying cake, having their heart broken and stubbing their toe - absolutely fooking brilliant on your behalf - and as I always say - the beauty in people is in their differences - and how we should learn from one another and share in them.


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schoolgirlforreal 6 years ago from USA

wow so many comments man

interesting & funny


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SimpleSam 6 years ago

Any christians - please let me know - what did the lions eat for the 40 days on the ark? Bear in mind their teeth, the heat, the lack of refigeration and the fact that the animals on the ark were there to be protected.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 6 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

simple sam- i like many people who dont take every single word in the bible for absolute fact, believe that if in fact the bible is by some weird magic true...then the ark story is just a fable, and the lions probably nuzzled with the lambs. Total and complete b.s. You absolutely right, were supposed to believe that the agressive animals ate nothing, or were just tame, and ate only what noah had on hand. right. Where did all of the animals go to the bathroom? i mean the place must have been caked with urin and feces. 2 of each animal, right? so, every animal made it? No one died...ok No my firend, your absolutely right, there is no concieveable way that this happened. Just like adam and eve. Just a story like the mustard seed. A parabol to learn from. A story of faith.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 5 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

OK, I UNPUBLISHED THIS HUB A WHILE AGO BECAUSE I WAS SICK OF EVERYONE ARGUING, AND ME BEING THE WRITER OF THE HUB, I STARTED TO FEEL LIKE SOME CNFLICT PUPPET MASTER.

AFTER 6 MONTHS OF THOUGHT ANS CAREFUL SELF CHECKING, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS HOW I FEEL, AND NO MATTER HOW DIFFERENT THIS ARTICLE IS FROM MY OTHER HUBS, I HAVE DECIDED TO REPUBLISH IT.


aaron 5 years ago

i can point out every detail why i was trained as a historian . first no religion wrote myths in symbolgy what was written was truth nothing hidden. second i seen contradictions itself. i seen gay being slander in old testment and then jesus proclaim gays to good i have not seen it as sin an abomation does not mean sin and ambomation is a english term not hebrew term. so gays and transsexuals are alright and so arnt pagans no where it says go out and convert no where does it say against pagans. the bible conveintlly made out of 50 versions of christ teachings this in it self would create romans reason to be rome for the church. i can prove and show you but you go and say i am an idiot and the bible is perfact . it pisses me off to see fundies use the old testment when christ said old testment no more on gays but completly contradict sex before and outside of marriage equal to your gay sin but these christen do it and see nothing wrong but preach about the these sins. and no were does it talk about hell dante invented it. convientlly the church updates the bible when it is proven wrong to prove it and homosexuality isnt either. i am sick of christens lies you marriage law is illegal pagans say it violates their religous beliefs.


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 5 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

aaron- i read your comment twice, and am having trouble understanding what you have written. im not sure if you are a christian, a pagan, gay, straight, i dont know where the hell you are comming from. "you marriage law is illegal pagans say it violates their religeous beliefs" what? what the hell are you talking about. my marriage law? are you uncertain as to my position?

next time you comment on something of mine please slow down and take your time to make sense. i cannot respond properly if i have no idea what you are talking about. you sound like you are half asleep or something.


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jomine 5 years ago

If impregnating somebody's betrothed is adultery, then hasn't god committed adultery? So whats the punishment?


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jomine 5 years ago

And thanks for the nice hub and discussion.


MartieCoetser profile image

MartieCoetser 3 years ago from South Africa

Pink Umbrella, I like this hub of yours. Indeed, the bible contradicts itself hundreds of times.

For more than half of my life I have studied the Bible with diligence, at first focused on the contradictions while searching for something, someone, that could kill all my human fears and insecurities and make all my dreams come true. Then, when I finally realized that death is the ONLY thing that will definitely - come hell or high water - happens to me, I started to focus on the compilers of the Bible. And, oh, what eye-openers they were...

Then I took up mythology, and specifically that of the old Sumerians ...

Then I took up astronomy, and geography, and psychology, history....

Etc., etc, etc.

Today I understand the human race - their urges, fears, tendencies, hopes, desires...

I no longer waste a minute of my time - though I am doing it now - to share what I have learned. Or even to listen to the arguments of a Know-it-All. Because humans, including me, are not born to understand why we are living on an awesome planet in an astounding universe for only 70 years (if we are lucky).

"Live and let live" is a simple motto that contains everything we need to BE and DO while we have the wonderful opportunity to 'think and therefore to be' on this beautiful planet Earth. (Descartes: I think, therefore I am.)

Arguing about the Bible, and actually the obsessed focus on the Bible, which is indeed a beautiful book filled with awesome legends, history, literature and fantasy, reminds me of a troop of wild dogs devouring the carcass of an elephant. Yes, for millions the Bible is indeed spiritual food, but most of the millions eat like wild dogs - and even each other - while they are supposed to be - according to the Bible - representatives of God. (And here we are at the concept people have of God, or rather what they call 'God')

Still an interesting topic of discussion, but such a waste of precious time.

Thanks for the chat :)


the pink umbrella profile image

the pink umbrella 3 years ago from the darkened forest deep within me. Author

awesome comment :) I have unpublished this hub many times because of the arguments. it was one of the top ten hubs at one time because of all of the comments. At first it was kind if a response to something someone said that pissed me off in the forums, and then I started to feel toxic because all of the negativity.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 3 years ago from West By God

Shared for you. I have many hubs that I unpublished and some of them did just as yours did. Every so called Christian claims things in the bible and they claim they have love, but they certainly do not show it. I was wondering where you went.


James-wolve profile image

James-wolve 3 years ago from Morocco

Very interesting questions.I d like to add something here or let s say an explanation :

Matthew ,Luke and John are not the real ones who wrote the Bible.Instead,it was written :

1.By mysterious men.

2.By an unknown number of men.

3.In unknown places.

4.In unknown dates.

I wonder why people follow Paul's teachings instead of Jesus s. It is falsely claimed that Jesus appeared to Paul while Paul was on his way to Damascus after the "crucifixion" (Acts 9:2-4). Yet, Paul admittedly wasn't even sure whether the Holy Spirit was inspirning him or not). Moreover,none of the disciples, even in the false writings attributed to them, ever claimed that their writings were inspired or Divine. Not only that, but we even ironically see that Luke for instance, wrote his "gospel" for the sake of another person and not GOD Almighty and even the disciples even fought with each others.There are many other things I mentioned in one of my hubs called : Trinity exposed:Concept doesn't exist in Scripture.

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